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00:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing major, but at least i know of two definite conflicts from reading commit messages ;) 00:00:31 <TrueBrain> you have blitter changes? :) 00:00:35 <Eddi|zuHause> should be easy one-liners 00:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> no, commits from a few days ago 00:00:55 <TrueBrain> ah ;) 00:01:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm at 11050 00:01:46 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip150.77.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:02:02 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0F793.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:02:37 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0D73A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:03:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11081 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Fix r11080: now solved the problem in a pretty way: don't do animation if we are not drawing to the screen-pointer 00:04:00 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip150.77.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has joined #openttd 00:04:06 <TrueBrain> oh, tnx to glx for the help on the last commit :) 00:04:17 <glx> really? 00:04:26 <TrueBrain> HAhaha :) 00:04:33 <TrueBrain> [01:57] <glx> use BlitterParams maybe 00:04:34 <TrueBrain> really :) 00:04:40 *** Arpad70 [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 00:04:41 <TrueBrain> [01:56] <glx> it should not assume it is drawing on screen 00:04:43 <TrueBrain> those 2 in fact ;) 00:05:03 <glx> you already known the second I think 00:05:32 <TrueBrain> have someone saying it to you helps a lot :) 00:05:40 <TrueBrain> as I didn't realise the solution could be this simple ;) 00:05:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11082 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Fix r11081: save before commit (yeah, whitelines are important too!) 00:05:53 <TrueBrain> okay, 4 commits, 3 fixes, you got to love it :) 00:05:57 <glx> lol @commit 00:06:18 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0D998.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> at least it is elementary :p 00:12:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F262.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 00:17:41 <SmatZ> seems you are trying to increase average number of commits per day 00:20:01 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0CABF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:22:54 *** Kyjo [ibygtkftmj@nezmar.netlab.cz] has left #openttd [] 00:23:48 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0D73A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:23:50 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip150.77.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:21 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip150.77.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has joined #openttd 00:46:57 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:30:59 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77887.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:37:26 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77864.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:52:38 *** ITSBTH_ [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 01:52:38 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:14 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:32:39 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 02:32:39 *** ITSBTH_ [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:42 *** ITSBTH_ [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 02:51:42 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:30 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0EACE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:07:18 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0CABF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:26:00 *** Markkisen [~shit@h204n3c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 03:28:56 *** MarkSlap [~shit@h204n3c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:28:56 *** Markkisen is now known as MarkSlap 03:35:34 *** biffy [~chris@S01060050bf78124c.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:36:17 *** sPooT [~spoot@e142085.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:41:55 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0E487.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:45:43 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0EACE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:48:31 *** mcbane [~maui_key@p5498FBC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:58:58 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-103-180.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:04:51 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip150.77.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:05:21 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-103-180.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:14:12 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.36 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 04:23:07 *** DNazarov [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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*** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-209-199.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:01:56 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-155-227.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:08:05 *** Dark_Link^sleep [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:12:23 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has joined #openttd 08:15:12 *** dihedral [~nathanael@joshua.dihedral.de] has joined #openttd 08:15:17 <dihedral> hello ladies 08:16:36 *** nzvip [~svip@cpe.atm2-0-78233.0x535a2072.boanxx18.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:23:48 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 08:23:48 *** ITSBTH_ [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:46 *** Strid [gg@85.8.6.64.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:47 *** Strid [gg@85.8.6.64.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #openttd 08:42:49 *** ITSBTH_ 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*** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 11:30:52 *** ITSBTH_ [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:33 *** Arpad70 [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:32 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Brooklyn's got a URL Rodger Bacon USB Firewire SVG Ebooks Wazniack Flowerpower iMac Phaser laser inkjet what you see aint what you get] 11:49:28 *** Arpad70 [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:49:51 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065143.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:50 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:00:53 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:05:47 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:07:55 <dihedral> you're a quiet bunch... 12:08:15 <guru3> It is Monday Morning. 12:11:19 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0E487.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:12:16 <N101> monday night 12:12:28 <N101> dredding school for tommrow 12:15:54 <guru3> :o 12:16:47 <dihedral> :-) 12:17:17 <dihedral> it's monday afternoon 12:18:10 <guru3> same here 12:18:24 <guru3> finally getting around to writing yesterday's blog entry 12:28:14 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-155-227.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 12:29:54 *** Arpad70 [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:38 *** Arpad70 [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:31:44 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:54 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 12:50:46 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:58 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 12:55:10 *** frosch123 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[~tokai@p54B800EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:41:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 14:47:01 <dihedral> silence is gold? 14:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, green! 14:47:41 <TrueBrain> or purple 14:47:43 <Rubidium> rahther greenish 14:49:10 <glx> red and green with some blue 14:51:42 *** nairan_zzZZ [~Maui_key@p5498C977.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:52:33 <frosch123> TrueBrain: Thanks. But why do you clear the anim-buffer, when skipping transparent pixels? 14:52:52 <TrueBrain> frosch123: euh.. DOH 14:53:00 <TrueBrain> that was old code that was needed for some testing... 14:53:17 <frosch123> ok 14:53:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is feeled fix #12 to a commit? :p 14:53:26 <TrueBrain> you forgot to skip the anim buffer at all 14:53:31 <TrueBrain> so I wondered what went wrong 14:54:03 <SpComb> what's changed between 0.5.2 and 0.5.3-RC3 that would cause console commands sent to openttd -D's stdin to work in the latter, but not in the former? 14:54:59 <frosch123> Oops, indeed. Stupid copy and paste. 14:55:02 *** mcbane [~maui_key@p5498C977.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 14:55:03 <SpComb> oh, right, I just answered that myself with a quick `diff` - printf("%s\n", str); becomes fprintf(stdout, "%s\n", str); fflush(stdout); 14:55:09 *** nairan_zzZZ is now known as mcbane 14:57:09 *** weijtemans [~weijteman@cp591953-a.tilbu1.nb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 14:57:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11083 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Fix r11078: don't clear the anim buffer when alpha = 0 (tnx to frosch) 14:58:23 <TrueBrain> so there you go frosch123 14:58:35 <TrueBrain> when can we expect a patch that makes the 32bpp-optimized encode stuff like 8bpp-optimized does? :) 14:59:11 <frosch123> I had a feeling, that the zoom-level-based rendering does not increase performance. 14:59:26 <TrueBrain> it does a bit, but more: it reduces the amount of memory needed ;) 14:59:26 *** weijtemans [~weijteman@cp591953-a.tilbu1.nb.home.nl] has quit [] 15:00:16 <frosch123> If you compare 8bpp-simple and 8bpp-optimized, 8bpp optimized is 8 times faster on my machine. 15:00:30 <frosch123> but the skipping can only explain factor 2 15:01:04 <frosch123> So I can only guess a cache issue, because of very small mem usage of the 8bpp-optimized 15:01:06 <TrueBrain> on nomral zoom-in you mean? 15:01:19 <frosch123> but the 32bpp blitters use more memory 15:01:23 <TrueBrain> put your cache on 16M, and it should never give any problem :) 15:01:29 <frosch123> yes the normal zoom-in 15:01:46 <frosch123> I mean processor first level cache. 15:01:52 <frosch123> My spritecache is 64M 15:01:53 <TrueBrain> main thing about 8bpp-optimized, is that memcpy is used to copy bytes, instead of one by one 15:01:58 <TrueBrain> (in case of no REMAP and TRANSPARENT) 15:02:15 <TrueBrain> So L1 cache? I think L2 is more important in this, but okay, good enough :) 15:02:36 <frosch123> When using 8bpp-optimized for zoom-out levels, it is not that fast compared to 8bpp-simple. 15:02:57 <TrueBrain> it looses it advantage yes 15:03:23 <TrueBrain> default: 15:03:23 <TrueBrain> memcpy(dst, src, pixels); 15:03:23 <TrueBrain> dst += pixels; src += pixels; 15:03:23 <TrueBrain> break; 15:03:29 <TrueBrain> This was a factor 4 speed-up or something :) 15:03:52 <glx> yes water works well now 15:04:01 <frosch123> That only works for fully opaque pixels. 15:04:09 <TrueBrain> frosch123: 8bpp.... 15:04:37 <TrueBrain> anyway, the point here is: you can't get as fast as 8bpp-optimized with 32bpp, simply because you can't memcpy 15:04:44 <TrueBrain> but a speed of 8bpp-simple should be reachable 15:05:04 <TrueBrain> although that is just a random number 15:05:09 <TrueBrain> (they cna't be really compared) 15:06:01 <frosch123> Perhaps split the M channel from CommonPixel and store length of fully opaque pixelblocks as well. 15:06:08 <frosch123> Then memcpy would be possible. 15:06:15 <TrueBrain> for small pieces, indeed 15:06:27 <TrueBrain> (depending on the source of course) 15:07:21 <TrueBrain> anyway, I got to go 15:07:23 <TrueBrain> bye all! 15:07:28 <frosch123> bye 15:12:05 * SpComb shakes fist at whoever forgot to flush stdout 15:12:23 <SpComb> I have to run openttd inside a pty, which introduces all kinds of nasty things, but at least it works 15:16:14 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:18:57 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A419A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:19:01 <skidd13> msg 15:19:14 <skidd13> hi 15:21:50 <Rubidium> so, did anybody test the current 0.5 branch? 15:21:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11084 /trunk/ (Doxyfile src/command.cpp src/command.h): -Documentation [FS#1219]: of command.*. Patch by Progman. 15:25:43 *** Arpad70 [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:41 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has joined #openttd 15:29:45 <skidd13> Rubidium: Anything special in mind? 15:30:28 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 15:31:09 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:32:23 <Rubidium> quite a lot, cause there were some major changes in the command subsystem 15:36:55 *** Dark_Link^ is now known as Dark_Link^karen 15:37:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11085 /trunk/src/command.h: -Fix-ish (r11084): some tabs that did not show up in the diff, which caused a mess of tab and non-tab usage. 15:38:49 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] 15:39:14 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:40 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:41:14 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:16 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:43:11 <Ammlller> Hi, strange bug in current nightly: we have to stop trains to join, else we will desync 15:44:26 <glx> current is not a version :) 15:44:42 <Rubidium> they're running 11085 15:45:08 *** frosch123 [~mtce@pascal.math.tu-clausthal.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:02 <Ammlller> 11072 15:46:05 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-118-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:46:35 <Ammlller> is that not current nightly? 15:46:54 <glx> it is yesterday nightly :) 15:47:07 <Ammlller> and that is current untily this night :) 15:47:43 <glx> and what version was previously used? 15:47:46 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has joined #openttd 15:48:33 <Ammlller> 11047, is that importend? 15:48:45 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 15:49:24 <glx> reduce the changes to check :) 15:49:45 <Ammlller> I guess, it has something to do with the vehicle list? 15:49:53 <Ammlller> smartz patches? 15:49:56 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has quit [] 15:50:04 <Ammlller> SmatZ: 15:50:43 <SmatZ> Ammlller: hello, what's the problem? 15:51:11 <Ammlller> If someone likes to join, we have to stop trains (not pause) else he will desync 15:51:41 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-159-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:51:45 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 15:52:00 <Farden> and if we forget a train, even if it doesn't move, desync... 15:52:31 <glx> there's a stopall command IIRC to not forget any train :) 15:53:44 <SmatZ> interesting 15:53:45 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:53:50 <Ammlller> and SmatZ, 2 error witch patch setting on start, is that wanted? ( 15:53:50 <Ammlller> advanced_vehicle_list = 1 15:53:50 <Ammlller> loading_indicators = 1 15:53:52 <SmatZ> why do you think my patch caused this? 15:53:59 <Ammlller> was true before... 15:54:13 <SmatZ> you have to set different value now 15:54:24 <SmatZ> it is saved in openttd.cfg, not in savegame 15:54:28 <SmatZ> fully client-side option 15:54:34 <Ammlller> hmm, possible that server has still old settings 15:54:54 <Ammlller> could that be the problem 15:54:59 <Farden> (and on exit, too, the errors) 15:55:07 <SmatZ> really, changes in GUI shouldn't cause any of described problems 15:55:21 <SmatZ> I even used modified r11042 client with those patches on #openttdcoop with no problem 15:55:38 <SmatZ> whne you set new value, it gets saved 15:58:03 <SmatZ> Ammlller: go to Patch settings, change those "problematic" patches to some value and leave the game -> it will be saved and give no more warning 15:58:13 <SmatZ> it is fully client-side patch, it cannot cause desyncs... 15:58:29 <SmatZ> if it can, there is something horribly wrong in the code ... 15:59:02 <Ammlller> SmatZ: you can also delete them.. 15:59:13 <Rubidium> my suspect is FS#11059 15:59:14 <Ammlller> I will check server settings 15:59:22 <Rubidium> especially the train_cmd.cpp change 16:03:19 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:27 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:04:00 <Ammlller> Rubidium: it has definitly something to do with trains, its easy reproducable 16:04:32 <skidd13> Does anyone remember who has written the town growth speed stuff? 16:05:41 *** KouDy [~KouDy@85.207.64.178] has joined #openttd 16:05:56 <Bjarni> try svn blame and read the log entry for the commit in question 16:06:51 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:11:49 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 16:14:54 <skidd13> @seen Maedhros 16:14:55 <DorpsGek> skidd13: Maedhros was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 6 days, 21 hours, 19 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <Maedhros> i'm not entirely sure what that code should be doing though (and the cider isn't helping ;) 16:19:52 <skidd13> @commit 9613 16:19:53 <Bjarni> damn he had to be drunk if he has a two week handover o_O 16:19:54 <DorpsGek> skidd13: Commit by maedhros :: r9613 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2007-04-12 17:24:34 UTC) 16:19:55 <DorpsGek> skidd13: -Feature: Make it possible to have some control over the town growth. The 16:19:56 <DorpsGek> skidd13: default rate is TTD's original rate, and to approximate OpenTTD's previous 16:19:57 <DorpsGek> skidd13: behaviour the rate should be set to "Fast" or "Very Fast". Town growth can be 16:19:58 <DorpsGek> skidd13: switched off entirely, and if so, buildings will not be rebuilt. It is also 16:19:59 <DorpsGek> skidd13: (...) 16:20:10 *** St|off [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Peace and Protection 4.22.2] 16:20:14 <skidd13> @commit 9614 16:20:15 <DorpsGek> skidd13: Commit by maedhros :: r9614 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2007-04-12 18:23:47 UTC) 16:20:16 <DorpsGek> skidd13: -Feature: Use the normal growth rate values when the growth rate is set to none and "Fund new buildings" is used. 16:20:29 <svip> Does it really need to add an extra line with "(...)"? 16:20:36 <Bjarni> yeah 16:20:38 <svip> Couldn't it just wrap up the line before that with thaT? 16:20:40 <svip> that* 16:20:48 <skidd13> It's a bot it's stupid 16:20:53 <Bjarni> no 16:20:56 <svip> You can make a bot smart. 16:21:11 <Bjarni> only if you want to invest too much time in it 16:21:15 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-253-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:21 <svip> Yeah yeah. 16:21:31 <skidd13> svip: you can but do you want? ;) 16:21:37 <svip> But of course it is stupid, it performs simple tasks. 16:21:43 <svip> Just think it is a waste of lines. 16:21:45 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 16:22:03 <svip> In fact, why don't it just remove the line feeds and move as much as possible on one line. 16:22:04 <Bjarni> for some reason it's funnier when they are dumb and fills the channel with something not that bright :P 16:22:11 <svip> :/ 16:22:25 <Bjarni> <svip> In fact, why don't it just remove the line feeds and move as much as possible on one line. <-- readability 16:22:48 <glx> <@Bjarni> for some reason it's funnier when they are dumb and fills the channel with something not that bright :P <-- kick because flood? 16:23:04 <Bjarni> yeah, that too 16:23:07 <ln-> Bjarni: so, gravity 1 - SAS 0 16:23:21 <svip> "You win again, gravity!" 16:23:51 * Bjarni never really liked Dash 8 anyway 16:24:07 <svip> Dash 8? 16:24:20 <Bjarni> it's the wrong plane for the route 16:24:33 <svip> :/ Who goes to Aalborg anyway? 16:24:41 *** lolman [~lolman@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:43 <Bjarni> that's another very good question 16:24:54 <svip> And if you are, why are you flying? 16:25:06 <svip> Do it the OTTD way... take the train. 16:25:19 <svip> Luckily you don't have to build the tracks yourself. 16:25:22 <ln-> it was a DeHavilland Q400, wasn't it? 16:26:08 <Bjarni> I once took the train there and had to change... and the other train didn't drive on that particular weekday. DSB sold me an invalid ticket >_< 16:26:30 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-87-102-70-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 16:26:32 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-87-102-70-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 16:26:38 <Bjarni> ln-: the news here claimed it to be Dash 8-Q400 16:26:42 <ln-> (their ticket vending user interface must have been in danish so they couldn't understand a word) 16:27:08 <ln-> hmmm, so are there two planes called Q400, funny. 16:27:36 <ln-> or it might be an alternative name 16:28:27 <ln-> Bjarni: http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Canada_DHC-8 16:28:45 <Bjarni> actually it was before computers took over, so the ticket sales person looked up the schedule in a book and it appears that she read the wrong weekday (aka the wrong page) 16:29:00 <glx> ln-: nice of you to give the norwegian page :) 16:29:48 <ln-> glx: it was closest to danish i could find.. google found japanese page first. 16:30:16 <skidd13> s/\/no\./\/en\./ 16:30:19 <Bjarni> post that one as well :P 16:30:22 <Rubidium> at least there are quite a few Japanese->English translators (at least more than Norwegian->English) 16:30:41 <svip> "9 September 2007: The crew on board Scandinavian Airlines flight 1209, en route from Copenhagen to Aalborg reported problems with the locking mechanism of right side landing gear, and Aalborg Airport was prepared for an emergency landing." 16:30:42 <Bjarni> and then everybody can use bablefish to understand anything in it :P 16:30:44 <svip> :OO::O:O:O:O 16:31:03 <Bjarni> svip: you didn't know? 16:31:07 <svip> I did. 16:31:14 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 16:31:15 <svip> I is just fooling around. 16:31:28 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:31:50 <Bjarni> "I is"??? 16:32:04 <ln-> "it's canada's fault!" 16:32:09 <Bjarni> yeah 16:32:23 <Bjarni> whenever you can blame somebody on the other side of the Atlantic, then do it 16:33:01 <Bjarni> but you only get full points when you blame Bush... how can this be Bush's fault? 16:33:50 *** lolman [~lolman@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 16:34:04 <ln-> without americans the operating airline would have been lufthansa or klm. 16:34:27 <ln-> a little far-fetched, yes. 16:34:40 <Rubidium> because under Bush' administration they still let (proven) unsafe planes fly for years 16:35:18 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:35:27 <Rubidium> a large part of the crashes due to technical "issues" happen quite a few times after they have found the "cure" for it 16:36:52 <glx> yeah 737 should not be allowed to fly 16:37:03 <Rubidium> like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_811 (see "See also" list for more crashes due to the same technical mistake) 16:39:04 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has joined #openttd 16:41:38 *** KouDy [~KouDy@85.207.64.178] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] 16:45:45 *** dihedral [~nathanael@joshua.dihedral.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:46:30 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: brb] 16:49:02 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has joined #openttd 16:49:56 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 16:50:58 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:51:16 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A419A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 16:51:44 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 17:06:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:07:24 <Wolf01> hello 17:14:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11086 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix/Revert (r11053, r10984): "fixing" r11053 made the acceleration code use the wrong speed, which can be fixed by reverting a small piece of r10984. 17:14:20 <Bjarni> hi Wolf01 17:15:45 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6381.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 17:16:43 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 17:17:01 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [] 17:19:02 *** St|off [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:19:51 *** Dark_Link^karen is now known as Dark_Link^ 17:20:19 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 17:26:35 <Phazorx> Rubidium 17:26:51 <Rubidium> Phazorx 17:27:04 <Phazorx> gota a question related to http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1063 17:27:25 <Phazorx> have some time/desire to discuss? 17:29:02 <Rubidium> not really as it is a hell of a lot of work for making the game even less balanced *and* basically ditching "proper" newgrf support. 17:29:28 <Phazorx> well less balanced is something that can be countered by other measures 17:29:50 <Phazorx> as i mention in the original post - i recon how complex would it to be to get it done properly 17:29:56 <Phazorx> and i'm not even leaning that way 17:30:39 <Phazorx> however there can be ways to deal with "undeserved extra income" 17:31:56 * Belugas yawns 17:31:58 <Phazorx> i wonder if there are other things that will be affected aside of price calculation 17:33:21 <Wolf01> uhm, this night 2 hours of the simpsons inedited episodes 17:34:59 <Bjarni> now that is kind of off topic 17:35:11 <Bjarni> specially because it's likely on a channel I can't watch :P 17:35:20 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: any new version of your fast GUI patch? 17:35:37 <Wolf01> no, i'm stuck with... all 17:36:07 <Bjarni> then how can you have time for watching unedited cartoons? 17:36:37 <Wolf01> i need an help tool-like behaviour, but without the white square 17:36:54 <Wolf01> Phazorx, what about making trains cars to be continuous instead of "draw the next one where the current ends"? 17:36:54 <TrueBrain> white square? 17:37:06 <Wolf01> the placement method 17:37:35 <Wolf01> i don't want to use a placement tool, i want to click tiles directly 17:37:40 <Phazorx> Wolf01: you mean overlaying them? 17:37:48 <Bjarni> sounds like it 17:38:43 <Wolf01> have you ever saw a train car with a door on the roof of the next car? 17:39:18 <Wolf01> *saw -> seen or "place the right verb" 17:39:51 <TrueBrain> hmm, WWT_TRANSPARENT doesn't even work, hehe :) 17:40:08 <Phazorx> Wolf01: it is possibel i guess... but math/engine solution is probably simplier 17:40:29 <Wolf01> yes, but you can fix both the speed and the appearance of a train 17:43:00 <Phazorx> well as Rubidium mentioned - gfx fix is much more tidious 17:44:35 <Wolf01> dinner time 17:45:36 *** prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.] 17:49:18 <Rubidium> after thinking about this issue I've come to the solution that you can never fix it: you can't make a vehicle that is exactly long enough so you won't get the FS#1063 "issue" when going from straight to diagonal and when going from diagonal to straight 17:51:04 <Rubidium> as the length of the train must be proportional to sqrt(2), which isn't something you can achieve (nicely) with 28 or so pixels 18:00:53 <Phazorx> Rubidium: once again, what if we forego realistic/proper way of fixing it 18:00:59 <Phazorx> and play around with math 18:01:58 <Phazorx> contracting/misplacing grfs is probably not a bes idea but if we fake math to be 1 instead of srt(2)/2 for diagonals 18:02:24 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 18:02:25 <Phazorx> and compensate early arrivals for trains that have traveled a lot of space fiagonaly by afefcting profit 18:04:20 <Rubidium> Phazorx: how long should the vehicle be? 18:04:29 <Rubidium> on the diagonals 18:04:39 <Phazorx> half tile, both visualy and realisticaly 18:05:10 <Phazorx> i mean a tile for size/speed/distance calcualtion part has size of 1 18:05:18 <Phazorx> either way, straight or diagonal 18:05:42 <Rubidium> how big in pixels? 18:06:03 <Phazorx> oh... i have no idea... i would not like the solution if it had to toch gfx 18:06:14 <Phazorx> i'd say exactly same as now grafically 18:06:30 <Phazorx> i only want to affect positions of everything 18:06:58 <Rubidium> positioning needs some sqrt(2) thing in diagonals 18:07:05 <Phazorx> essentialy as soon as 1st car of train is fully diagonal (half tile), a straight part of train should be one car (hal tile) less 18:07:35 <Phazorx> yes it does and the images used are coping with that very nicely 18:07:47 <Phazorx> since they are stretched byt sqrt(2) as well 18:09:27 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-148-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:09:28 <Phazorx> again Rubidium i do not have anything against unrealistic looking "expanding" effect, that is unavoidable heritage 18:09:45 <Rubidium> Phazorx: mathematically (not even graphically) a vehicle must be sqrt(2)/2 (or something like that) long on the diagonal track to not get the issue of FS#1063 on the begin *or* end of the diagonal track 18:10:34 <Phazorx> Rubidium: yes, and graffics used right now are exactly like that - a 2 full cars of train make whole diagonal track 18:10:36 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host86-150-128-227.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:10:52 <Phazorx> each one of them is sqrt(2)/2 in visual length i guess 18:11:03 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 18:11:29 <Phazorx> but time it takes for these cars to get there is proportional not to their length but to traveled distabce which uses different scale 18:11:35 <Phazorx> which is the root of the problem 18:12:30 <Phazorx> if it is possible to make trains travel diagonaly with same proportions as grafical representation suggests you would get rif of growing/shrinking effect 18:13:07 <Phazorx> it will not look either nice, realistic or proper since trains would visualy and mathematicaly move faster on diagonal parts of tracks 18:13:38 <Phazorx> but that can be dealt with separately 18:13:44 <Rubidium> which is even wronger 18:14:04 <Rubidium> moving FASTER and a SHORTER distance, that's like giving it double bonuses 18:14:08 <Phazorx> well i'd say that is to be debated upon, i can suggest multuiple strategies for balancing that 18:14:24 <Wolf01> back :P 18:14:30 <Rubidium> well, write a fix and show us how "easy" it is 18:14:48 <Phazorx> heh... i guess i am planing on that 18:15:01 <Phazorx> but my priginal question was what else can be affected by such change 18:15:27 *** Nite [user@chello062178193175.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 18:15:30 <Rubidium> quite a lot, but what I don't know 18:16:17 <Phazorx> am i right to assume that for price calculation manhattan distance is used instead of any other model? 18:16:47 <Nite> where 2 ask about "reliability" calculation in ottd ? 18:17:10 <TrueBrain> www.askottd.com? 18:17:40 <Rubidium> google.com? 18:17:44 <Nite> ;p 18:17:51 <Rubidium> grep? 18:18:11 <Ammlller> Nite, why didn't you just ask? 18:18:14 <Nite> hoped someone here could say something bout it 18:18:31 <Nite> is it purely random or can you influence it somehow? 18:19:36 *** Dark_Link^ is now known as Dark_Link^Maxi 18:20:35 <TrueBrain> it is fully based on your creditcard number 18:22:01 <Bjarni> yeah 18:22:21 <Bjarni> if you give your credit card number and the date of expiration, the vehicles will break down way less 18:22:45 <Prof_Frink> And the security code on the back 18:22:59 <TrueBrain> oh, just wire us all your money :) 18:24:18 <Nite> just thinking about money - pah - what about true values! 18:25:44 <TrueBrain> that was what we were talking about: money 18:26:15 <Prof_Frink> True value is 1. Credit card value is >1. 18:26:25 <Prof_Frink> (Subject to owner of said card) 18:28:06 *** Nite [user@chello062178193175.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has left #openttd [] 18:31:27 <Belugas> ho :( 18:31:30 <Belugas> he left :( 18:31:33 <Belugas> that's bad 18:31:47 <Belugas> was getting interesting :) 18:34:32 *** Nite [user@chello062178193175.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 18:34:45 <Phazorx> i guess his time much closer to "true value" than what has been suggested here :) 18:39:47 <Nite> on trillian anyone? 18:41:42 *** Fopper [~foppe@cc921592-a.ensch1.ov.home.nl] has joined #openttd 18:42:14 *** exe [~dgxczv@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 18:42:55 <Wolf01> TrueBrain, now i succeeded to open the gui by clicking on a tile 18:42:57 *** exe [~dgxczv@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has left #openttd [] 18:43:14 <Belugas> Nite, define trillian, please 18:43:17 <Belugas> a new drug? 18:43:27 <Belugas> then no. I'm on coffeing 18:43:31 <Belugas> -g 18:44:06 <Nite> the chat program ... 18:44:26 <Wolf01> multiprotocol chat program 18:45:06 <Phazorx> like miranda, but bloated 18:46:57 <Nite> bloated but working ;p 18:51:02 <Wolf01> TrueBrain http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/fast_gui_11086.diff i know there are some weird glitches, but is like how it should behave (press ctrl+f to start it, i don't know how to autostart, or at least it doesn't work) 18:52:11 *** Dark_Link^Maxi is now known as Dark_Link^ 18:52:56 <Belugas> bah.... 18:53:05 <Belugas> i use mIRC 18:53:19 <Belugas> quite happy that i CAN use IRC, and that's it... 18:53:24 <Belugas> make it as simple as possible 18:54:31 <Phazorx> bx/iirc would be as simple... xchat is also possible :) 18:55:53 <Wolf01> i like more bitchx 18:56:23 <Wolf01> i use it with my DS when i use DSLinux :P 19:02:59 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:04:20 <Sacro> rawr >:3 19:04:44 <Bjarni> oh no, the devil returned 19:05:24 <Ammlller> Rubidium: commit 11086 solved our desync problem, thank you very much... 19:05:39 <Sacro> Bjarni: with my new shiny hard drvies :D 19:05:46 <Sacro> though i need to find some screws to attach them 19:06:00 <Sacro> having wasted an hour or so trying to plug the sata port back in :( 19:06:48 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> synthon.oftc.net quits: Red, CIA-1, Tefad, mikegrb, Phazorx, De_Ghost, izhirahider, Wolf01, plaes, DaleStan_, (+5 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:07:35 *** Netsplit over, joins: De_Ghost, Red, CIA-1, Tefad, G, DaleStan_, Insight`, Phazorx, plaes 19:07:50 *** Netsplit over, joins: mikegrb, Greyscale, Wezz6400, Wolf01, izhirahider 19:08:03 *** Netsplit over, joins: N101 19:13:28 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:13:45 *** Markkisen [~shit@h204n3c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 19:19:02 *** Nite [user@chello062178193175.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] 19:19:25 <Sacro> whoops 19:19:28 <Sacro> i didn't do it 19:19:31 <Sacro> nobody saw me 19:19:37 <Sacro> you can't prove anything 19:20:05 *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [I don't have to have proof of anything as long as my word is the law in here] 19:20:06 *** St|off [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:06 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as St|off 19:20:12 *** MarkSlap [~shit@h204n3c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:12 *** Markkisen is now known as MarkSlap 19:21:14 *** Fopper [~foppe@cc921592-a.ensch1.ov.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:22:06 <Bjarni> hmm 19:22:15 <Bjarni> usually he returns within 30 sec 19:22:46 <Belugas> you killed Sacro! 19:22:48 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:23:09 <Belugas> 3 minutes for resurrection 19:26:03 <Wolf01> his soul splitted from the body in the last netsplit 19:26:17 <Bjarni> he has a soul? 19:26:22 <Belugas> Alleluia! 19:26:25 <Belugas> a miracle!! 19:27:49 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: |>] 19:30:16 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:36:38 *** Markkisen [~shit@h204n3c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 19:40:31 *** MarkSlap [~shit@h204n3c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:40:31 *** Markkisen is now known as MarkSlap 19:44:00 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip150.77.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has joined #openttd 19:46:05 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6381.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:46:22 *** Phazorx [PACO@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:14 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:48:31 *** St|off [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:31 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as St|off 19:56:02 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 19:56:53 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:59:48 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:59:48 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:50 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-104-83.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:00:44 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 20:00:44 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:03:11 *** [Surge] [~Surge@dsl-243-115-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 20:03:45 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 20:04:03 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-172-209.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:04:03 *** Farden123 is now known as Farden 20:04:10 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host86-150-128-227.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:09:56 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A4484.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:10:03 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip150.77.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:10:22 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip150.77.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has joined #openttd 20:11:19 <TrueBrain> I wish people would stop joining and leaving... 20:11:49 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #openttd [] 20:11:50 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:11:51 <Wolf01> :D 20:12:24 <TrueBrain> @kick Wolf01 and stay out! 20:12:24 *** Wolf01 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [and stay out!] 20:12:25 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:12:34 <Wolf01> but i left and joined :( 20:12:49 <Wolf01> you said join and leave 20:12:51 <Prof_Frink> /ignore #openttd JOINS 20:12:55 <Bjarni> I'm sorry, but I have to leave and join once in a while 20:13:04 <Bjarni> like when I turn the computer off or reboots 20:13:26 <ln-> YOU TURN THE COMPUTER OFF??? what kind of a freak does that and admits it. 20:14:01 <Bjarni> people, who cares about the environment 20:14:19 <ln-> actually no comma there 20:14:29 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host81-158-74-253.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:14:44 <Prof_Frink> If you're gonna turn your computer off, IRC from somewhere else. 20:14:48 <Bjarni> like environment around a bed 20:14:51 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: VIP Gill ;D] 20:15:04 <Bjarni> specially the audio environment 20:15:45 <Rubidium> Bjarni: use a more silent computer 20:16:03 <Bjarni> I can't really do that 20:16:11 <Bjarni> you see, I already switched to a silent computer 20:16:14 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:31 <Bjarni> but I can still hear the HD itself (even though it's a silent HD) 20:16:31 *** Insight` [~askme@host64-21.bornet.net] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.1 :: www.regroup-esports.com )] 20:16:48 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Have your computer somewhere else, and a flash-based thin client in your room 20:16:55 <Bjarni> besides wouldn't it be a waste of power? 20:17:03 <Bjarni> since I wouldn't need it to be on 20:18:27 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 20:18:32 <Rubidium> configure your OS so it stops the HD when it isn't used, or can't your OS handle that? 20:21:09 <Bjarni> it can 20:21:15 <Bjarni> but 20:21:40 <Bjarni> it will not stop the HD with the swap partition and the log 20:24:19 <Rubidium> as if those are important in an idle system? 20:24:46 <Bjarni> it will write to the log if I keep IRC open 20:24:58 <Bjarni> to store all the people quitting and joining 20:25:04 <Rubidium> then configure it to not flush it immediatelly 20:25:24 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: mount a flash drive as ~/.irssi 20:25:45 <Bjarni> but then.... why waste power on a computer that's not supposed to do anything? 20:26:07 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:44 <Rubidium> time == money, and waiting for the thing to boot takes time, i.e. money. Most likely more than what it would cost to keep it turned on ;) 20:29:00 <SmatZ> I wonder how much time took developing OpenTTD (=I would like to know the money devs would be paid, if it weren't under GPL) 20:29:57 <Bjarni> and how many hours do you expect us to spent figuring out the answer for that question? 20:35:30 <Belugas> TrueBrain did some calculations a while ago (i think it was him) and it was evaluated that OpenTTD is worth 4 milions$ regarding dev-work 20:35:48 <Belugas> does it answer the question, SmatZ? 20:36:22 <SmatZ> Belugas: yes, thanks, interesting, really - you all would be very rich now... 20:36:45 <SmatZ> Bjarni: maybe, 0, maybe... 20:36:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r11087 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed) 20:36:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-09-10 22:36:01 20:36:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 6 fixed by tucalipe (6) 20:36:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 6 fixed by arnaullv (6) 20:36:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 6 fixed by webfreakz (6) 20:36:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 6 fixed by kristjans (6) 20:36:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 6 fixed by glx (6) 20:38:27 <TrueBrain> Belugas: yeah, I used sloccount :) Current value: 4.5M dollar 20:38:39 <TrueBrain> cpp: 115185 (88.20%) 20:38:51 <TrueBrain> ansic: 15046 (11.52%) 20:38:52 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] 20:38:55 <TrueBrain> sh: 354 (0.27%) 20:38:59 <TrueBrain> asm: 6 (0.00%) 20:39:03 <TrueBrain> Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 130,591 20:39:07 <TrueBrain> Development Effort Estimate, Person-Years (Person-Months) = 33.32 (399.87) 20:39:11 <TrueBrain> (Basic COCOMO model, Person-Months = 2.4 * (KSLOC**1.05)) 20:39:15 <TrueBrain> Schedule Estimate, Years (Months) = 2.03 (24.36) 20:39:19 <TrueBrain> (Basic COCOMO model, Months = 2.5 * (person-months**0.38)) 20:39:19 <TrueBrain> Estimated Average Number of Developers (Effort/Schedule) = 16.42 20:39:19 <TrueBrain> Total Estimated Cost to Develop = $ 4,501,430 20:39:19 <TrueBrain> (average salary = ,286/year, overhead = 2.40). 20:39:20 <Bjarni> I don't think we could be paid full for the work as a lot of the time is spent on stuff we had to check because we aren't professionally schooled developers (at least not all of us) 20:39:54 <Bjarni> like it would be unlikely to hire a person to port the game, who never ported anything before 20:40:27 <TrueBrain> sorry about the spam, it was more text then I assumed :s 20:40:39 <TrueBrain> 2 years of fulltime work, not bad :) 20:40:44 <Bjarni> I did manage to get it working within a week though... had a serious SDL issue (nice undocumented feature) 20:40:53 <TrueBrain> 33 person-years :) 20:40:56 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: no, that is just you 20:41:02 <MiHaMeK> TrueBrain: well, if I would be an investor, I'd expect much more stuff for 4.5M usd 20:41:19 <TrueBrain> MiHaMeK: then you are being unrealistic :) 20:41:30 <TrueBrain> sloccount in fact returns a value that most of the time is very close to the real value 20:41:51 <TrueBrain> just remember that it includes maintanance and stuff 20:41:57 <MiHaMeK> TrueBrain: did it count language files as source code? 20:42:12 <TrueBrain> MiHaMeK: no 20:42:19 *** Phazorx [PACO@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 20:42:43 <MiHaMeK> TrueBrain: it still looks unrealistic to me, but I'm too tired to argue on this :) 20:42:53 <Sacro> :o 20:42:55 <Sacro> he also returns 20:42:56 <Bjarni> translators can be ridicules expensive, but sometimes we can question the quality of our translations :( 20:43:07 <Bjarni> odd translations are usually found though 20:43:24 <MiHaMeK> Bjarni: yeah, you know what: only those err who works something :) 20:43:25 <Prof_Frink> "My hovercraft is full of eels." 20:43:26 <TrueBrain> MiHaMeK: :) If the 130,000 lines is realistic, it is pretty correct ;) 20:44:08 <TrueBrain> 0 src_lang (none) <- it skipped the lang dir ;) 20:44:24 <TrueBrain> maybe I should run sloccount every night :p 20:44:32 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: not only stuff like that. I once noticed a Danish translator and started to wonder if he was dyslexic or something (he left a while ago) 20:45:18 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: What if you count graphics work? 20:45:44 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: sloccount only does, as the name suggests, count Source Line Of Code, so no graphics work for you :) 20:46:29 <Bjarni> so spending time on changing code will not be counted either 20:46:41 <TrueBrain> is already included in the model 20:46:52 <TrueBrain> bug fixes, minor rewrites 20:46:54 <TrueBrain> all in the value 20:47:04 <TrueBrain> of course, starting from scratch isn't detected ;) 20:47:13 <MiHaMeK> ok, i'm pretty tired, let's go to sleep 20:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> f 20:47:26 <TrueBrain> MiHaMeK: have a jolly good night :) 20:47:42 <MiHaMeK> TrueBrain: thanks, i wish the same to you :) 20:47:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, that part went into the wrong window... 20:47:46 <TrueBrain> tnx :) 20:47:53 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: the 'uck' part? 20:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, something like that :p 20:48:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i actually wanted to type "df" 20:48:44 *** KouDy [~KouDy@85.207.64.178] has joined #openttd 20:48:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> now i have a stray d in the console window, and don't know how to handle it 20:48:50 <Bjarni> there is one thing that's not counted: the time spent on patches that resulted in something we couldn't use and where the patch would have to be started over based on a new idea 20:49:03 <Bjarni> since the original patch was never committed 20:50:12 <skidd13> good night 20:50:41 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A4484.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 20:52:10 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:44 *** KouDy [~KouDy@85.207.64.178] has quit [] 20:53:05 *** N101 [~Name101@CPE-121-216-143-142.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:36 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip150.77.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:56:57 <Prof_Frink> Also not counted is thwarting the opposition by giving patchman a WoW trial 20:57:50 <TrueBrain> Belugas: if you ever want to show it to someone again: http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/sloc/ :) 20:57:53 <TrueBrain> for your pleasure ;) 20:58:14 *** Arpad [~Gali@tutzing.ccc.de] has joined #openttd 21:00:23 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has joined #openttd 21:03:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> am i reading that correctly as "if there were 16 people working full time, they'd have taken 2 years to program this" 21:04:31 <Rubidium> according to some emperical research 21:04:35 <TrueBrain> yes 21:04:41 <Prof_Frink> "If there were an infinite number of monkeys..." 21:05:04 <TrueBrain> anyway, it misses a few files, it adds other files... 21:05:06 <svip> But can you have an infinite number of monkeys without dramatically creating a black hole? 21:05:08 <TrueBrain> it is a nice estimated, nothing more :p 21:05:18 <Prof_Frink> svip: Yes. 21:05:23 <ln-> offtopic: what does "dÃŒssel" mean in dÃŒsseldorf? 21:05:24 <svip> How? 21:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> so, who is now paying the 4.5 Mio $? 21:05:33 <Prof_Frink> You just need an infinite volume to contain them. 21:05:47 <svip> You are aware that putting about 40 to 50 billion people in the same hall will create a black hole. 21:05:47 <Rubidium> basically the developers 21:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: pretty problematic to determine, village names change a lot over time 21:07:27 <Rubidium> ln-: In the 7th and 8th centuries, the odd farming or fishing settlement could be found at the point where the small river DÃŒssel flows into the Rhine. It was from such settlements that the city of DÃŒsseldorf grew. 21:07:35 <TrueBrain> svip: even blackholes have a finite mass 21:07:46 <svip> Yes. 21:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, would be my first guess, too, name of a river/stream 21:08:00 <TrueBrain> [23:05] <svip> You are aware that putting about 40 to 50 billion people in the same hall will create a black hole. <- LOL! That aint true :) 21:08:03 <Rubidium> from our famous, but not to be used in scientific studies, source 21:08:08 <TrueBrain> you have your statement reversed :) 21:08:11 <svip> But the whole idea about producing an infinite amount of monkeys is ludicrous. 21:08:34 <svip> I mean. 21:08:38 <TrueBrain> to fit 40 to 50 billion (semi-living) people in the same hall, you need a blackhole created there :) 21:08:38 <svip> Consider the aftermatch. 21:09:02 <TrueBrain> main difficulty is: you won't be able to see them...... ;) 21:09:03 <svip> Well, the mass of 40 to 50 billion people. 21:09:05 <Rubidium> svip: why, producing an infinite number of rabbits is easy -> fib(infite) == infinite ;) 21:09:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> ;) 21:09:22 <svip> But we are talking about monkeys. 21:09:27 <svip> Rabbits aren't monkeys. 21:09:33 <TrueBrain> okay, let's talk about sheep 21:09:33 <svip> What did you get in biology? 21:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> just make the monkeys reproduce like rabbits 21:09:41 <svip> Sheep doesn't have a plural form. 21:09:43 <svip> So let's not. 21:09:54 <svip> Same reason we don't talk about furniture. 21:09:57 <TrueBrain> good argument :) 21:10:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> i thought sheep was already the plural form... 21:10:14 <svip> Indeed, Eddi|zuHause2. 21:10:15 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: and the singular form is...? :) 21:10:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are lots of words in german whose plural is the same as singular 21:10:21 <svip> And that is crazy. 21:10:29 <svip> German is just crazy apparently. 21:10:30 <Prof_Frink> germans are crazy. 21:10:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> although sheep is not one of them ;) 21:10:33 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: sheep are never alone 21:10:47 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: good point :) 21:10:52 <Prof_Frink> orudge will be with them. Always. 21:10:54 <svip> But let's not mention that the Danish word for sheep doesn't have a plural form either. 21:11:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> see, they got that from the danish, not from the german 21:11:21 <svip> You think? 21:11:26 <svip> Sheep is "fÃ¥r" in Danish. 21:11:29 <svip> Hardly sounds related. 21:11:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> not the word, the plural creation :p 21:11:54 <svip> I'm not sure about that either. 21:11:58 <svip> Got any source on that. 21:12:08 <svip> Otherwise I am marking your comments with [citation needed] 21:12:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> but what is the etymology of "fÃ¥r"? it is very different 21:12:32 <Rubidium> svip: the Danish just named the animal after the stuff it creates, i.e. fur 21:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> ah 21:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> that explains it 21:12:51 <svip> But that is called... "uld" in Danish, Rubidium. 21:13:04 <svip> "FÃ¥r" produces "uld". 21:13:09 <svip> Ask Bjarni. 21:13:16 <svip> Hey, Bjarni, you gotta help me out here. 21:13:18 <ln-> Bjarni: Which one do you produce? 21:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> but in german, "Schaf(e)" produce "Wolle" 21:14:13 <Rubidium> huid (<-> uld 21:14:13 <svip> It's crazy! 21:14:31 <ln-> "lammas/lampaat" produce "villa" 21:14:57 <svip> Why are there two l's in Llama? 21:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Herkunft:aus westgerm. skÊpa âSchafâ; Herkunft unklar; vermutlich von schaben [1] 21:15:21 <Bjarni> because it's one short of Lllama 21:15:26 <svip> lol 21:15:41 <svip> :( I thought we weren't going to talk about sheep. 21:15:47 <svip> Let's go back to the infinite monkeys. 21:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> svip: same as there is "ll" in "Mallorca" 21:16:08 <Rubidium> because they spoke it as ljama? (the spanish that is) 21:16:18 <svip> Yeah. 21:16:26 <svip> But if I recall correctly, English isn't Spanish. 21:16:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> but they took it as loanword 21:16:49 <Sacro> and two is in llanfairpyth... whatsit 21:17:01 <svip> Hey. 21:17:07 <Rubidium> ah well, better get back to war with the UK then ;) 21:17:07 <svip> Why not add a silent M in front of it? 21:17:15 <Bjarni> MUK? 21:17:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: could be some celtic roots in spanish 21:17:25 <svip> No, Mllama, Bjarni. 21:17:30 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: you should ask Born_Acorn 21:17:35 <Sacro> he is from the land of the welsh 21:17:47 <Bjarni> hi, do you live in MUK? :) 21:17:54 <svip> :O 21:18:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> i never understood how so many beginning letters in english are silent 21:18:34 *** pPACO_BAN [PACO@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 21:18:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> like in "Pterodactyl", the 'P' is silent in english... 21:18:42 * Prof_Frink stabs Eddi|zuHause2 with a knife 21:19:05 <svip> Like in French? 21:19:08 <svip> Just at the end. 21:19:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, also "Knight" (from german "Knecht" == lower vasall) 21:19:18 <svip> And why do they even have H in French? 21:19:19 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: you should come to Hull 21:19:27 <Sacro> pronounced 'Ull round 'ere 21:19:41 <svip> Moo moo. 21:19:50 <Sacro> Móó 21:20:01 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: "You silly English ker-nigets" 21:20:26 <Prof_Frink> Dammit, now I want to watch Python as well 21:20:28 <Sacro> :o 21:20:36 <svip> Oh. 21:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Karnickel?" no, those are bunnies :p 21:20:40 <svip> I thought he wanted to code in Python. 21:20:45 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip150.77.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has joined #openttd 21:20:48 <Sacro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qxqvjTbu0 :D 21:21:03 *** G_ [~njones@202.154.148.163] has joined #openttd 21:21:09 <Bjarni> <svip> I thought he wanted to code in Python. <-- he isn't THAT crazy 21:21:17 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> larich.oftc.net quits: Phazorx, DaleStan, G 21:21:22 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: i don't think he wants one 21:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> probably half the jokes in monty python get lost in the translation 21:21:29 <Sacro> he's already got one, you see 21:21:29 <svip> I coded my website in Python, Bjarni. 21:21:32 *** lalelu [~maui_key@p5498C977.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:21:49 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498C977.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 21:21:54 <Bjarni> I feel sorry for you 21:22:02 <Bjarni> did you get over it? 21:22:29 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-104-83.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 21:22:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i need to learn some python these days... 21:22:41 <Bjarni> ppsss pssssssss psss 21:22:45 <Bjarni> like that? 21:23:17 <Sacro> Bjarni: i fart in your general direction, your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries 21:23:36 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: NI! 21:23:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> my professor and especially his assistant do a lot in model checking, now my project is to get some "real world" code from a company, and build a translator from python and C++ into those models 21:24:23 <Sacro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk-bBZ8uIPE :D 21:24:26 * Sacro learns to use coconuts 21:24:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> thus i need to have some kind of an idea how a python program looks like 21:25:20 <Bjarni> Sacro: those nuts are coconuts :P 21:25:38 <Bjarni> coconuts are way bigger than that 21:26:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> you are nuts! 21:26:50 <Bjarni> I already told him that, but I don't think he understood it :P 21:28:17 * Sacro scratches his nuts 21:28:39 <Bjarni> see, he just admitted it 21:28:56 <Bjarni> "* Sacro [...] his nuts" 21:28:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> in german "Eins auf die Nuà geben" means to slap one's head 21:29:04 <Sacro> i've got a lovely bunch of coconuts... 21:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually not slap, more like knock 21:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> (another silent 'k') 21:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are even silent 'g', like in "gnome" 21:31:40 * Prof_Frink throws Magdalene College at Eddi|zuHause2 21:31:41 <Sacro> gnome doesn't have a silent g 21:31:43 <Sacro> g'nome 21:31:56 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: The little man on the toadstool does 21:32:08 <Sacro> does he? 21:32:17 <Prof_Frink> the GNU Network Object Model Environment doesn't 21:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> in all kinds of english i heard, "gnome" (as in the little person) had silent "g" 21:32:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's even a joke about it in Charmed 21:33:02 <Tefad> gnat 21:33:09 <Tefad> gnu 21:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> which is totally untranslateable into german 21:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> because in german, the g is not silent 21:33:25 <Prof_Frink> Tefad: Yeah, that's weird 21:33:33 <Tefad> gnu has hard g 21:33:37 <Tefad> gnat has silent g 21:33:44 <Tefad> anything gnu related has hard g. 21:33:51 <Tefad> so.. guh-nome for gnome. 21:33:53 <Prof_Frink> gnot gnecessarily 21:33:58 <Tefad> yes. 21:34:11 <Tefad> unless some developer is being weird. 21:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> english is totally weird 21:34:30 <Prof_Frink> The wildebeest (plural, wildebeest or wildebeests), also called the gnu (pronounced /nu/ or /nju/) 21:34:31 <Tefad> english is a mutt 21:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever a "mutt" is 21:35:53 <Diabolic-Angel> a mail client? 21:37:34 <Sacro> grr, sat waiching python now 21:37:38 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: :w] 21:38:38 <Tefad> hah 21:38:42 <Tefad> mutt is a mix of a lot of things 21:38:53 <Wolf01> 'night 21:38:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:38:59 <Tefad> english is derived directly from old german (or something) 21:39:15 <Tefad> however the english speaking lands were occupied by french speakers 21:39:27 <Tefad> and the english language took on many french words 21:39:43 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5aca7b9a.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:39:48 <Tefad> so english has german and french rooted words for just about everything 21:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> english is a horrible mix of latin, german, nordic and french 21:40:04 <Tefad> commence versus begin 21:40:32 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5aca7b9a.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 21:40:48 <Bjarni> 1000 year old English looks like Nordic 21:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> basically everyone who ever conquered britain :p 21:41:10 <Bjarni> Germany conquered England? 21:41:32 <Bjarni> AFAIK Hitler didn't win the Battle of Britain 21:41:37 <svip> He didn't? 21:41:37 <Tefad> early germans 21:41:39 <svip> Damn. 21:41:44 <Tefad> really early germans 21:41:44 <svip> I have to rewrite my story book. 21:41:47 <[Surge]> 10 barbarians with clubs 21:41:59 <svip> Who all spoke German. 21:42:00 <Tefad> as there are native languages to the british isles 21:42:07 <svip> "Schniel!" 21:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> german tribes ("Angeln" and "Sachsen") moved to britain after the romans left, hence the name England (Angelland) 21:42:26 <svip> They still use the term Anglo. 21:42:29 <Tefad> the normans took a while, but invaded later 21:42:30 <svip> Like in Anglosphere. 21:42:48 <Tefad> aka french speakers 21:42:50 <svip> Wikipedia even has an Anglo-Saxon edition. 21:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> incidentally, the name "France" also comes from a german tribe ("Franken") who moved westwards 21:44:57 <Bjarni> I have a good story about languages. Some old Dane (from the western parts of the country) went to London and went to a pub. He found some young ladies and started talking to them in the only language he knew (try and guess which one). His son noticed, went over and asked the ladies if they could understand him and they replied that it was a bit hard, but they guessed it was because he was from Scotland 21:45:28 <svip> :D 21:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, languages from similar groups often have a lot in common 21:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> and since english belongs to almost any group... :p 21:47:01 <svip> Not Finno-Ugric. 21:47:05 <svip> That's for sure. 21:47:06 <svip> o_o Wow. 21:48:13 <Bjarni> actually old people from the western part of Denmark do speak something that sounds closer to Scottish than the language spoken by young people or people from the rest of the country 21:48:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> i would probably understand a dutch person if he was speaking slow enough 21:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> *slowly? 21:48:46 <Bjarni> the odd part is that I might have better luck understanding a Scottish person o_O 21:49:03 <svip> O_o 21:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> i always get adjectives and averbs wrong 21:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> because they are the same in german 21:49:10 <svip> Like that language they made in SkÃ¥ne, Bjarni? 21:49:19 <svip> Which neither Swedes nor Danes could understand. 21:49:38 <Bjarni> I can understand it 21:49:42 <Bjarni> somewhat 21:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are weird german dialects around also 21:50:13 <Bjarni> at least I tend to understand their questions and I think they understand my replies 21:50:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> in ThÃŒringen you occasionally have villages who can't understand people from the neighbouring village 21:50:23 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:50:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> because they speak totally different dialects 21:50:37 <Bjarni> hehe 21:51:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> note that ThÃŒringen was one of the most fractured areas before the first "unification" (in 1871) 21:51:16 <Bjarni> I like the story about a group of people from the far eastern part of Denmark meeting a group from the far western part and they needed a translator :D 21:51:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> meaning states of the size of one castle+surrounding village 21:52:29 <Bjarni> sounds like a place where diplomacy had to be very efficient and active it would be total chaos 21:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's a most funny line in the "False friends" list on wikipedia within german: "Word: 'na', meaning: 'yes'/'no' (depending on dialect), misunderstanding: 'no'/'yes' (the other meaning)" 21:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> e.g. in bavaria "na" means "no", while in saxony "na" means "yes". 21:55:56 <Bjarni> this sucks if you are asked something like "are you guilty?" 21:56:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> other common misunderstandings between germans from different regions involve clock times 21:56:21 <Bjarni> you could be beheaded for admitting a crime you didn't commit :P 21:56:48 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 21:56:56 <Bjarni> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/f/f5/Da-map.png <-- just found this on wikipedia... looks different from what I usually see 21:57:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> e.g. in one part you say "viertel vier" (meaning 15:15), while in other parts you say "viertel nach vier" (meaning 16:15) 21:57:42 <Bjarni> :) 21:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> so if you show up an hour early/late you either forgot summer/winter time or you fell in that trap 21:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> btw, it is also a problem with translating to english, germans say "halb zwölf" (meaning 11:30) while the english say "half past twelve" (meaning 12:30) 22:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> also, most west germans don't understand the time "dreiviertel vier" (15:45) [where they say "viertel vor vier"] 22:02:50 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0D2CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:05:21 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has left #openttd [] 22:06:00 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> btw, it is also a problem with translating to english, germans say "halb zwölf" (meaning 11:30) while the english say "half past twelve" (meaning 12:30) <-- there is the same problem between Danish and English 22:06:18 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0E487.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:07:06 <guru3> you can say half twelve and have it mean 11:30 in english 22:08:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> guru3: a friend of mine tried that, and it did not quite work :p 22:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i assume that is also very regional 22:09:22 <guru3> well honestly i would probably only use it on eleven 22:09:27 <guru3> say 'half evelent' and have it mean 10:30 22:09:34 <guru3> or maybe it's cause i live in sweden :/ 22:09:41 <Bjarni> I think it would work in the area where peter1138 lives 22:10:42 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-103-180.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, "MÀrchenstunde" is such a great show :p 22:17:03 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0D2CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:17:23 <Bjarni> sounds like either a chick series or porn :P 22:17:39 <svip> Or both. 22:17:51 <Bjarni> chick porn? 22:18:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> they take famous german fairy tales, and tell how it "really happened" 22:18:28 <Sacro> porn? 22:18:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a comedy series 22:18:46 <svip> Oh. 22:18:47 <svip> Comedy. 22:18:52 <svip> Then everything is alright. 22:18:54 <Sacro> comedy porn is ace 22:18:59 <svip> <Sacro> porn? << Do you have that on highlight? 22:19:08 <Bjarni> so it's as funny as "Verstenen Sie spaÃ?"? 22:19:16 <Sacro> svip: no, i was just passing 22:19:17 <Bjarni> svip: I think so 22:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> different kind of funny ;) 22:19:30 <Bjarni> just like "lesbian, tits and boobs" 22:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> PS: it's "Verstehen" 22:19:43 <Sacro> mmm 22:19:47 <svip> :o 22:19:48 <Bjarni> PPS: I knew I had it wrong :P 22:19:54 <svip> You are sorta getting Sacro in the mood. 22:20:11 <Bjarni> svip: what this trick 22:20:15 <Bjarni> Sacro: lesbians 22:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Verstehen Sie SpaÃ" is more like reality fun (hidden camera) 22:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> "MÀrchenstunde" is scripted fun 22:20:39 <Bjarni> wtf 22:20:44 <Bjarni> Sacro is broken 22:20:53 <svip> No. 22:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> you broke him! 22:20:58 <svip> He is off fapping it off. 22:21:08 <Bjarni> ahh 22:21:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> yesterday he was happily quoting weird foreign language phrases 22:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> then you came along! 22:21:30 <svip> :o 22:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> that cannot be a coincidence 22:21:52 <Bjarni> I was offline the whole day yesterday 22:22:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's what i was talking about 22:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> he was fine, until you came back 22:22:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> you must have brought in a disease 22:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> desease? 22:22:41 <Bjarni> no I didn't 22:22:45 <Bjarni> I will fix him 22:22:49 <Bjarni> watch and learn 22:22:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> i never know how to spell that one 22:22:55 * Bjarni kicks Sacro 22:23:00 <Bjarni> Sacro: lesbians 22:23:14 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: disease 22:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> .... right 22:23:26 <Sacro> Bjarni: Jeg er allergisk over for muskatnÞd 22:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> can i see more of that alledged "fixing"? 22:23:57 <Sacro> Hvor er den nÊrmeste rutsjebane? 22:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> what does "Jeg er" mean? 22:23:59 <Bjarni> Sacro: so you have a problem getting near nuts 22:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> something like "are you"? 22:24:08 <Bjarni> I guess you aren't gay then 22:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> or "is he"? 22:24:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> or rather "i am"? 22:24:54 <Bjarni> yes 22:25:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> great :p 22:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes to which one? :p 22:25:11 <Sacro> Unnskyld, FrÞken, kunne De fortelle meg hvor i nÊrheten jeg kan fÃ¥ kjÞpt et forkle? 22:25:13 <Bjarni> the right one 22:25:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> this is right ---> 22:26:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't understand that one... 22:26:35 <Bjarni> it's Norwegian 22:26:39 <svip> Forkle? 22:26:43 <svip> "ForklÊde"? 22:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> doesn't change anything :p 22:26:50 <Bjarni> I think so 22:27:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Verkleidung"? 22:27:13 <Bjarni> we think that forkle means apron 22:27:17 <svip> Something like that. 22:27:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> only that "Verkleidung" also can mean two things 22:28:05 <Sacro> De jÀttelika krÀftorna försöker ta över Jorden! 22:28:06 <Bjarni> but I don't get the dirty remark in that line... and there is always dirty stuff in the odd quotes Sacro copy pastes 22:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> he migrated from uncyclopedia 22:28:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> to pure weirdness 22:28:43 <Bjarni> looks like it 22:28:50 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: do you understand "FrÞken"? 22:29:06 <Sacro> Oho! Tota noin ... EihÀn se vaa ollu' sun ajokoira? 22:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: i said i don't 22:29:19 <ln-> zomfg, sacro has learned finnish. 22:29:24 <svip> Finnish? 22:29:35 <svip> That looks like flaux Finnish. 22:29:36 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: oh. 22:29:48 <svip> Oh... 22:29:57 <svip> That later line. 22:30:04 <svip> [sic] 22:30:37 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: FrÀulein. even begins and ends with same letters. 22:31:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are lots of words which begin and end with the same letters :p 22:31:15 <ln-> reaaaalllly? 22:31:41 <Bjarni> http://www.qdb.us/78443 <-- Sacro tried this before 22:32:10 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host81-158-74-253.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:34:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:53 <Sacro> Miért nevet - annyira rosszul beszélek magyarul? 22:35:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:35:24 <ln-> Hungarian. 22:35:35 <Bjarni> the stuff Sacro says went from idiotic to ununderstandable 22:35:59 <Sacro> Ich bin kein Mitglied dieser Konferenz, dennoch möchte ich einen Pinguin. 22:36:26 <ln-> ... 22:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> important phrase if you happen to stumble into a linux conference in germany... :p 22:37:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> it'll probably also get you a beer in a beergarden :p 22:37:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:38:49 <ln-> The forefathers of Sacro: http://youtube.com/watch?v=p_ve37gVwxw 22:39:29 <Sacro> Wat jij nodig hebt is voedselvergiftiging 22:40:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> "voedsel"? 22:41:02 <glx> Sacro: ferme la :) 22:41:26 <glx> good luck to get the right meaning ;) 22:43:24 <Sacro> :( 22:44:00 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host81-158-74-253.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:44:03 <Sacro> Geben Sie mich dass Geleeschaumgummiring. Ihre HinterteileSIND im Begriff zu explodieren! 22:45:51 <ln-> it can't be "dass". 22:47:01 <Sacro> :( 22:50:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> we had that discussion yesterday already... 22:50:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> also, i have never met persons who have multiple backs :p 22:51:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> (on the same person) 22:52:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> http://www.qdb.us/77482 <- oh that one is genious ;) 22:52:16 <ln-> yesterday it was "dab" though 22:52:55 <Diabolic-Angel> qdb needs a rss feed 22:55:04 <Bjarni> http://bash.org/?522860 <-- heh. This guy claims to prove that math is pointless... it is if you like him makes an error :P 22:56:23 <Sacro> wow 22:56:28 <Sacro> thats liek zomg cool 22:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's so totally old... 22:57:11 <Sacro> like Bjarni 22:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro doesn't even know where the error is... 22:57:43 <Sacro> yes he does 22:57:50 <Bjarni> prove it :P 22:58:35 <Sacro> :( 22:58:40 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host81-158-74-253.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:59:21 <Sacro> a^2 - ta = b^2 - tb <- i don't see how he got that 22:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> that one is correct 22:59:54 <Sacro> :o 22:59:55 <glx> <prepared>(a - t/2)^2 = (b - t/2)^2 22:59:55 <glx> <prepared>a - t/2 = b - t/2 23:00:03 <glx> this is wrong 23:00:06 <Sacro> yesh 23:00:09 <Sacro> should be a^2 23:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it shouldn't 23:00:25 <Sacro> err.. 23:01:08 <Sacro> a^2 - 2at/2 -t ? 23:01:25 <Sacro> err 23:01:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: he takes the square root on both sides 23:01:30 <Sacro> a^2 -at -t ? 23:01:39 <Sacro> oh... yes 23:01:44 <Sacro> well that's fine 23:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it's not 23:02:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> because 2^2 = (-2)^2, but 2 != -2 23:02:23 <Sacro> meh 23:02:24 <glx> (a -t/2)(a -t/2) != (b - t/2)(b -t/2) 23:02:25 <Sacro> true 23:02:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> which is the error they abuse her 23:02:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> e 23:02:43 <Bjarni> that's a bad line 23:02:58 <Bjarni> all Sacro will see is "[garbage] abuse her" 23:03:06 * Sacro whilstles 23:03:09 <Sacro> err 23:03:10 <Sacro> whistles 23:05:17 <ln-> Sacro: what is sqrt(4)? 23:05:28 <Sacro> well... 23:05:29 <Sacro> err 23:05:36 <Sacro> +/-2 23:05:46 <ln-> and that's.. wrong! 23:06:23 <ln-> it is 2. 23:06:37 <Sacro> no 23:06:40 <ln-> yes. 23:06:42 <Sacro> cos -2*-2=4 23:06:56 <glx> sqrt is always >=0 23:07:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's funnier with roots of higher degree ;) 23:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> because you get complex results 23:08:12 <ln-> i wonder how common an error it is to assume sqrt(4) would be +/-2.. one mathematically talented guy at school thought so too, once. 23:08:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> a student i know here failed in the maths exam with an easy question like "calculate the 4th roots of i" 23:08:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: it totally depends on context 23:09:17 <ln-> how's that? 23:09:38 <ln-> in what context sqrt(4) would be something else than 2? 23:09:53 <Sacro> 4th root of i is i 23:10:19 <Sacro> i, 1, -i, -1 23:10:22 <Sacro> no 23:10:28 <Sacro> i, -1, -i 1 23:10:30 <Sacro> hmm 23:10:37 <Sacro> so that'd make it 1 23:10:40 <Sacro> or would it 23:10:43 * Sacro asplodes 23:12:06 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host81-158-74-253.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:12:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: in a context where "sqrt" means both branches 23:14:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> like when you want to extend sqrt analytically (or holomorphically, which is the same, depending on which book you read) from the positive real axis to the complex plane 23:14:41 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can choose a random branch 23:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> not necessarily the positive one 23:15:11 <ln-> hmm, wikipedia seems to agree with your definition. 23:17:37 <ln-> blah, i'll stick to addition with small natural numbers from now on. 23:18:12 *** ITSBTH_ [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 23:18:12 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can reduce that to peano arithmetics :p 23:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> so you only need "zero" (or "one", depending on flavour) and "successor" 23:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> addition then reduces to simple rules like 23:20:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> plus(X,zero) = X 23:21:10 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host81-158-74-253.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> plus(X, succ(Y)) = succ(plus(X, Y)) 23:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> (those also come in different flavours, like one which evaluates the left operand) 23:22:35 <Bjarni> goodnight 23:22:41 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41604.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> multiplication is easy, too, you just replace "plus" with "mult", "succ" with "plus" and slightly adapt the right sides 23:23:56 <Sacro> !seen Bjarni 23:23:57 <_42_> Sacro, Bjarni (~Bjarni@0x50a41604.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) was last seen quitting #openttd.notice 1 minute ago (10.09. 23:22) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 17 hours 38 minutes there. 23:23:59 <Sacro> :( 23:24:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> it gets really funny when you want to define integer division ;) 23:28:47 <ln-> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070910/tod-uk-germany-traffic-116e0fe_1.html 23:29:03 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i have heard of something like that also 23:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> basically they made all crossings "right before left" 23:40:45 *** Red [Red@71-10-84-229.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:41:47 *** Red [Red@71-10-84-229.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #openttd 23:42:53 *** Ammlller [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-152-44.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:43:41 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host217-42-83-156.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:55:45 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-148-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]