Log for #openttd on 26th November 2007:
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00:08:53  <Gonozal_VIII> the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
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00:12:29  <glx> trying fonts Gonozal_VIII?
00:13:24  <Gonozal_VIII> accidently sent it..
00:14:23  <Gonozal_VIII> they shouldn't place the erase key thing next to the send key thing
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01:13:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a bad phrase for testing fonts anyway...
01:14:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> it doesn't contain ÀöÌ
01:14:33  <Gonozal_VIII> so does "franz jagt im komplett verwahrlosten taxi quer durch bayern"
01:14:46  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: and our alphabet does?
01:15:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, "OUR" alphabet does ;)
01:15:28  <Gonozal_VIII> ÀöÌß :-)
01:15:32  <SmatZ> it misses much more characters: "pÞíli¹ Ÿlu»ouÚkÜ kùò úpìl ïábelské ódy"
01:15:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: but "Falsches Üben von Xylophonmusik quÀlt jeden größeren Zwerg" does
01:16:20  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm i can't read your ÀöÌ stuff now
01:16:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: that is garbled somehow...
01:17:28  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: probably problem with codepage... I can read your text with no problem (including ß )
01:18:33  <SmatZ> maybe even the link will work... pÞíli¹.Ÿlu»ouÚkÜ.kùò.úpìl.ïábelské.ó  international domain names, blah :-x ... this is mapped to
01:22:29  <Eddi|zuHause2>
01:24:02  <Gonozal_VIII> you have civ running in the background?
01:24:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have civ paused in the background...
01:24:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a recompression of my scrubs recording running in the background
01:27:12  <SmatZ>
01:28:12  <Gonozal_VIII> that's a lot of channels...
01:28:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> most likely you have not set it to send in utf8
01:29:13  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: ÀÌëö ... you can even read ß ... wouldn't I need utf8 for that, too?
01:29:35  <SmatZ> yes, the best channels are #i_am_the_master[ !?]
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01:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> gna...
01:31:49  <Gonozal_VIII>
01:32:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> you can convert incoming strings from different encodings, and set it to send in a certain encoding
01:32:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> ÀöÌ <- this is windows-1252
01:33:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> „” <- this is ibm850
01:33:30  <Gonozal_VIII> i can read the first
01:34:04  <SmatZ> yes, I have ISO 8859-2
01:34:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, cp1252 is the most common encoding, together with ibm 8859-1
01:34:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> they have a lot in common
01:34:41  <SmatZ> příliÅ¡ ÅŸluÅ¥oučkÃœ kůň úpěl ďábelské ódy ... better now?
01:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> s/ibm/iso
01:34:59  <Gonozal_VIII> looks worse here
01:35:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, looks better
01:35:05  <SmatZ> :-D
01:35:10  <SmatZ> I set it to UTF-8
01:35:24  <Gonozal_VIII> almost every sign replaced now
01:35:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: that is because your client is not set to decode utf-8
01:37:18  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause3: you seem to be good in math, while you have op @ #mathe 8-)
01:37:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> wait, that was a requirement?
01:37:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> damn...
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01:38:50  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
01:41:30  <SmatZ> no...
01:42:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> but to answer the question, yes i have earned that status ;)
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01:58:27  <Gonozal_VIII> seems like trillian irc plugin doesn't support utf-8 decoding
01:58:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> you don't usually notice in english speaking channels ;)
01:59:41  <Gonozal_VIII> yes that's right...
02:00:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> you don't imagine how often i get to hear "hey, your umlauts are broken" in a german speaking channel ;)
02:00:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> (typical answer is: "no, my umlauts are fine, your display is broken")
02:01:22  <SmatZ> :-)
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02:06:04  <Gonozal_VIII> there is a feature to replace strings from incoming messages with other strings for changing nicks of other users and such stuff, in the trillian forum they write about using that to replace the umlauts
02:06:19  <Gonozal_VIII> but that's a trillian pro feature so i can't use that
02:07:02  <Gonozal_VIII> but doesn't matter
02:08:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> [So Aug 26 2007] [22:16:50] <Eddi>      also _ich_ habe umlaute :p
02:08:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> [Mo Sep 3 2007] [15:34:57] <Eddi>       meine umlaute sind völlig in ordnung :p
02:08:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> [Di Nov 13 2007] [18:26:16] <Eddi>      _meine_ umlaute gehen
02:09:13  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
02:09:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> [Di Nov 20 2007] [18:44:29] <Eddi>      was meinst du, wie oft ich hier diskussionen gefÌhrt hab, à la "deine umlaute gehen nicht"
02:09:48  <Sacro> guten nacht
02:09:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> just a few exaples ;)
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02:10:26  <Gonozal_VIII> good night
02:10:52  <Gonozal_VIII> (it is "gute nacht")
02:11:04  <Sacro> well i'm not native german
02:11:48  <Gonozal_VIII> [20:55:00] Sacro: Rotonen: I am teaching the foreigners how to speak English
02:11:56  <Gonozal_VIII> ;-)
02:12:00  <Sacro> :o
02:12:10  <Sacro> alright, you got me there
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02:44:19  <SmatZ> night
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10:09:57  <hylje> its a shame abandoned rail stuff tends to be demolished or removed
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11:47:31  <fjb> Moin
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12:13:52  <Ammler> :)
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12:20:04  <dihedral> what are you smirking about :-P
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12:35:35  <Bjarni> it looks like a smile from a guy who are thinking about women
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12:35:56  <Bjarni> or men
12:36:10  <Bjarni> we can make up all sorts of reasons unless he tells us
12:37:08  <dihedral> :-P
12:37:29  <Bjarni> withholding information can be dangerous
12:38:13  <Bjarni> well... he isn't denying anything
12:45:40  <ln-> Bjarni: the most logical explanation is that he's laughing at us.
12:45:49  <ln-> or you.
12:46:26  <Bjarni> no
12:46:47  <Bjarni> because then we would be able to tell what I would say after he started smiling and he had no indications at all
12:47:33  <dihedral> perhaps that is what he is smiling at...
12:47:45  <dihedral> but he smiled in every channel i joined...
12:47:47  <dihedral> :-S
12:48:03  <dihedral> Ammler: dont you dare propose :-P
12:48:56  * fjb knows what Ammler is smiling about. dihedral should also know.
12:49:22  <Bjarni> well... unless he tells us I should assume worst case
12:49:34  <Bjarni> that he is laughing at me (for no valid reason)
12:49:38  <Ammler> omg
12:49:41  <Ammler> :)
12:49:44  <Bjarni> maybe I should ban him just in case
12:49:59  <Ammler> sorry about that
12:50:06  <Bjarni> he admits it
12:50:38  <Bjarni> but he also apologises
12:50:47  <Bjarni> ... tricky
12:50:50  <Ammler> hmm
12:51:34  * Bjarni wonders if he can ban somebody for smiling after he apologised
12:51:49  <Ammler> please not, :)
12:52:03  <Ammler> its was really not personally, just a smile
12:52:18  <Bjarni> but you should know better
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12:52:35  <Bjarni> everything that is said on the internet is changed into something else
12:52:43  <Bjarni> usually to make you look bad
12:53:18  * fjb thinks Bjarni is suffering from lack of banning people.
12:53:39  <Ammler> indeed,
12:53:50  <Ammler> (to Bjarni)
12:54:09  <Bjarni> maybe I should ban fjb for saying stuff like that
12:54:13  <Bjarni> it makes me look bad
12:54:27  <Bjarni> imagine an op who feels the need to ban people
12:54:49  <Bjarni> DarkVater once banned himself on purpose and asked us to remove the ban the next day
12:55:11  <Bjarni> we could have "forgotten" to do so :P
12:55:15  <ThePizzaKing> hehehe, good ol' DarkVater
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12:55:41  <Bjarni> we once banned DiabloD3 and forgot to unban him for months
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12:55:58  * fjb is not really here anyway.
12:56:10  <Middystyle> hello
12:56:12  <Bjarni> then who are you?
12:56:26  <Bjarni> if you aren't here but you are here then who is here when it's not you?
12:56:32  <Bjarni> hi Middystyle
12:57:24  <Middystyle> everything ok here?
12:57:29  <fjb> It's just me.
12:57:39  <fjb> Hi Middystyle
12:57:41  <Bjarni> Middystyle: what kind of question is that???
12:57:54  <Bjarni> do you expect us to tell that the roof blew off the channel or something?
12:58:00  <fjb> Middystyle: Everything is as usual, almost.
12:58:54  <Middystyle> Ok. but I have a question about the dedicated server of OpenTTD wich I can find nowhere, or maybe missed it...
12:59:25  <dihedral> Bjarni: you ate a clown for breakfast?
12:59:38  <Bjarni> no he ran away :(
12:59:43  <Middystyle> let me think, ehm, nope...
12:59:50  * fjb thinks Bjarni didn't sleep well last night.
12:59:55  <Bjarni> that's why I started picking on Ammler
13:00:14  <fjb> :-)
13:00:39  <dihedral> Middystyle: and what would the q be?
13:01:51  <Bjarni> dihedral: it's a classic: "may I ask a question?"
13:02:22  <fjb> Better don't aks if you are allowed to ask a question.
13:02:24  <Middystyle> How can I use always the same map for a dedicated server
13:02:42  <Bjarni> ok that's a valid question
13:02:48  <Middystyle> I have a map, but after 2051 it starts with a new map
13:03:15  <Middystyle> And I want that specific map running, all the time
13:03:18  <dihedral> i know that if you have the generation_seed value in the config
13:03:23  <dihedral> and use my reload_config patch
13:03:31  <dihedral> it will always generate the same map for you :-P
13:03:42  <Middystyle> Wait a minute, I'm gonna look
13:03:47  <Bjarni> I think he wants to load the same scenario every time
13:04:02  <dihedral> you most likley dont have my reload_config patch
13:04:12  <Bjarni> bbl
13:04:27  <Middystyle> yes, that's it, the same scenario
13:05:25  <dihedral> Bjarni: would it be nice to have a 'map loop' section in the config?
13:05:42  <dihedral> i.e. specifying a scn, sav or RANDOM
13:05:52  <Middystyle> if that is possible?
13:06:01  <dihedral> no - not yet :-P
13:06:22  <Middystyle> but one scenario?
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13:09:06  <Ammller> bad wifi today
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13:18:22  <Ammller> is it possible to ban someone from wiki?
13:19:25  <Rubidium> Ammller: technically yes
13:20:39  <Rubidium> or at least one can do with the wiki
13:21:06  <Ammller> hmm, our stupid friend soup is annoying
13:21:33  <Ammller> but its not that bad atm, I just hope, It won't be worse
13:22:11  <Ammller> (its the guy with the java virus, whch plays ottd alone.)
13:22:42  <Ammller> hehe, he has its own server now.
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13:37:11  <Bjarni> I will not play on that one
13:37:36  <Bjarni> I risk that all my tracks will be deleted by that java virus/crazy admin
13:42:33  <dihedral> Bjarni: talking of soup:
13:43:08  <Bjarni> ROFL
13:43:10  <hylje> soup #openttd
13:43:33  <Bjarni> I saw that topic and wondered wtf this guy was talking about
13:43:52  <Bjarni> the screenshots aren't showing clever AIs or anything
13:44:43  <dihedral> i like making him appear as the silly ass :-P
13:44:54  <Bjarni> maybe I would have replied "everything is relative" to your reply
13:45:09  <Bjarni> but somehow it's not decent behaviour of an admin
13:45:15  <dihedral> heh
13:45:28  <dihedral> good job non-admins are around to do the non-decent stuff :-D
13:45:46  <Bjarni> I always have guys to do the dirty work
13:46:08  <Bjarni> except laundry :(
13:46:24  <dihedral> yuck
13:46:27  * fjb found that thread to stupid to answer it. :-)
13:46:32  * dihedral does not want to know about Bjarni laundry
13:46:56  <dihedral> but i find the rabbit less annoying than the maartena guy
13:46:57  <dihedral> :-P
13:46:57  <Bjarni> sometimes it's full of coal dust, oil and grease
13:47:18  * dihedral does not want to know about grease in Bjarni laundry
13:47:47  <Bjarni> it happens when I try to fix/maintain something underneath the train
13:47:58  <Bjarni> or in the engine room
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13:50:02  <Bjarni> * dihedral does not want to know about grease in Bjarni laundry <-- hehe.. that reminds me of when somebody asked me what it's like to do stuff on a steam locomotive and I said something like "you use a lot of lube on the long and pretty hard rods so they are prepared for hot and steamy back and forth motion"
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13:51:27  <Bjarni> I think that's the most interesting description you can make on IRC
13:51:37  <Bjarni> I mean it should fit the mind of the reader
13:51:38  <SmatZ> hello my ottd-ers :)
13:51:46  <Bjarni> hi SmatZ
13:51:53  <SmatZ> hello Bjarni
13:52:06  <Bjarni> SmatZ: are you ready with the lube for some hot and steamy action with the rods?
13:52:29  <SmatZ> I am always ready for things like this!
13:52:46  <Bjarni> do you have any idea of what I'm talking about?
13:52:51  <Bjarni> :)
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13:52:58  <skidd13> Hi
13:53:03  <Bjarni> hi skidd13
13:53:20  <Bjarni> skidd13: are you ready with the lube for some hot and steamy action with the rods?
13:53:45  <SmatZ> Bjarni: some kind of extreme sex?
13:54:09  <Bjarni> [14:50:02]  <Bjarni> * dihedral does not want to know about grease in Bjarni laundry <-- hehe.. that reminds me of when somebody asked me what it's like to do stuff on a steam locomotive and I said something like "you use a lot of lube on the long and pretty hard rods so they are prepared for hot and steamy back and forth motion"
13:54:47  <skidd13> Bjarni: Mad guy
13:54:57  <SmatZ> :-)
13:55:01  <Bjarni> ...
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13:55:50  <skidd13> Bjarni: You seem to be in a serious need of a girlfriend ;)
13:55:58  <Bjarni> you know it makes it sound way more interesting than "I get up at 5:00 to get into a cold rainy morning and apply lube oil on the outside"
13:56:23  <Bjarni> skidd13: and what makes you think that I don't already have one?
13:56:35  <skidd13> Bjarni: pervert :P
13:56:46  <Bjarni> LOL
13:56:51  <Bjarni> that's not what I meant XD
13:57:11  <skidd13> I knew... But you started this way ;)
13:57:28  <hylje> trains are gigantic phallic objects
13:57:40  <hylje> guess what tunnels are?
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13:57:52  <Bjarni> eek
13:57:59  <skidd13> Hmmmmpf.... Enough! There might be children in here!
13:58:00  <Bjarni> we have a 4 track tunnel here....
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13:58:37  <Bjarni> actually I haven't heard the tunnel one before... it's more restricted to piston movements
13:59:18  *** Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta1 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | And please, no Posting | No children allowed
13:59:23  <hylje> :I
13:59:26  <Bjarni> now we can continue :P
13:59:54  * skidd13 slaps Bjarni
14:00:07  *** Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta1 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | And please, no Posting
14:00:14  <SmatZ> :-D
14:00:22  <Bjarni> now we can allow Sacro to be in here as well
14:00:36  <skidd13> :D
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14:41:27  <SmatZ> I don't understand why people place everything at rapidshare ... "Get your own Premium-account now! Instant download-access! (Or wait 197 minutes)" blah
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14:48:30  <fjb> Everybody knows rapid share. And it has to be fast, with that name...
14:48:55  <SmatZ> yes, with that name :)
14:49:10  <SmatZ> it could be renamed to "waitshare"
14:49:20  <fjb> :-)
14:50:19  <Rubidium> it's fast, but *only* when you pay for it
14:51:52  <fjb> I hate the stupid ai...
14:52:07  <SmatZ> fjb: write new! :)
14:52:13  <Bjarni> rapidshare works ok if and only if you only need one file
14:52:41  <fjb> SmatZ: I'm considering ir. :-)
14:52:53  <SmatZ> fjb: great :)
14:53:09  <fjb> Most file at rapidshare are multipart.
14:53:25  <fjb> SmatZ: But I have some other projects to do first. :-)
14:53:37  <SmatZ> yes... I was downloading yesterday, and today I have 5 hours to wait ;_D
14:53:45  <SmatZ> fjb: everyone has :(
14:54:43  * fjb feels with SmatZ
14:54:53  <SmatZ> thanks :)
14:55:41  <Bjarni> <SmatZ> yes... I was downloading yesterday, and today I have 5 hours to wait ;_D <-- I take that as a "find somewhere else to host the file or I don't care about it"
14:55:42  <fjb> SmatZ: I'm working on an assembler for nfo. And I want to look into the signalling thing, but I have to understand more of the OpenTTD code first.
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14:59:47  <SmatZ> Bjarni: I wonder where ";_D" came from :) problem is that I cannot let anyone to put the file somewhere else, it is direct link from one web-page ...
15:00:55  <SmatZ> fjb: now some questions from me :) what is "assambler for nfo"? and what "signalling thing" are you talking about, the PBS?
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15:05:55  <fjb> SmatZ: PBS wozuld be the goal. But don't expect anything soon. And I really don't mind if anybody else is implementing a good new signalling system.
15:06:34  <fjb> And an assembler for nfo uses Mnemonics instead of hexcode to make grfs.
15:06:54  <SmatZ> thanks :)
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15:30:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> <SmatZ> yes... I was downloading yesterday, and today I have 5 hours to wait ;_D <- that's what you have dynamic IP for :p
15:32:02  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause3:  SmatZ is (smatz)
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15:32:06  <SmatZ> I don't :)
15:32:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> unfortunate choice of words
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15:35:15  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: [...] that's what you have dynamic IP for :p <-- yeah.... you can take over somebody else's IP ban or download penalty
15:35:23  <SmatZ> :_D
15:36:16  <Bjarni> I was once banned due to something like that (the ban rejection stated the reason... surprisingly enough)
15:36:40  * Bjarni has a dynamic IP that works kind of like a static IP for a month or so before it changes
15:37:07  <Bjarni> sometimes it changes once every 24th hour and sometimes I keep the same for ages
15:37:55  <Bjarni> I guess that's the dynamic part... you will never know when to get a new one
15:38:29  <Bjarni> the funny thing is that my ISP decided to give me two IPs, both dynamic
15:38:42  <Bjarni> so now I have one for the router and one for [unused]
15:39:25  <Bjarni> do anybody have an idea of what I should do with the unused one?
15:40:04  <Bjarni> I can only use it if I bypass the router but then the router will be unable to do QoS on my line
15:40:49  <Bjarni> so it should be something that is meant to have it's own IP but shouldn't use bandwidth....
15:51:48  <HMage> IP that doesn't use bandwidth?
15:58:59  <fjb> Bjarni: IRC? :-)
16:00:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, if one dynamic IP is banned, there's always the next one...
16:01:08  <dihedral> i once had an isp in the uk that gave me a subnet for free :-)
16:01:26  <dihedral> was a /29 - but none the less :-)
16:04:05  <SpComb> IPv4 addresses don't actually cost anything, but they're a limited resource and so people can generally charge money for them
16:04:36  <SpComb> getting your own billion-address IPv6 block is easy, but it's just not been deployed very wide-spreadedly
16:09:03  <dihedral> could punkbuster be used for ottd? <-- i assume this is a silly question due to my lack of knowledge on how pb works
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16:10:11  <skidd13> dihedral: Hmm IIRC punkbuster and friends are not OS independant... and not GPL compatible
16:11:39  <fjb> dihedral: Is cheating really a problem in OpenTTD network games at the moment?
16:13:23  <skidd13> All these anti cheat tools work because they are closed source and because there are only few versions of one game avilible
16:14:07  <Tefad> meaning it's not very useful if everyone compiles their own.
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16:15:21  <SpComb> propertairy security (obscurity)
16:15:54  <SpComb> was there discussion earlier about some person having made a Java OpenTTD client that could play on a game server?
16:16:12  <dihedral> well - i know from ET that pb is available at least for win linux and os x
16:16:51  <dihedral> but i was thinking in the wrong direction, that is true :-P
16:17:11  <dihedral> unless of course pb could offer a unique id per computer :-P
16:18:17  <skidd13> even if there would be some connection. Who can assure that the connection between OpenTTD and the anti-cheat tool is not poisend
16:18:33  <skidd13> :%s /poisend/poisoned/
16:19:07  <skidd13> :%s /poisoned/venomed/
16:19:57  <fjb> Creating a sheat for OpenTTD needs some better understanding of the source. Even then the possibilities are limited or the patched client would always desync.
16:20:52  <SpComb> depending on how you define cheating, the only way to guard against it is to make the protocol such that you can't "cheat" it
16:21:17  <skidd13> fjb: Not realy there a few patches floating in the forums, which are client side only and might be counted as cheats
16:21:48  <SpComb> I gather that PB and friends work by checking that you're running the origional client executable
16:21:56  <SpComb> which would make them entirely unfit for use with OpenTTD
16:22:19  <fjb> skidd13: What do you mean? Copy and paste?
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16:22:30  <skidd13> fjb: For example
16:23:08  <SpComb> the only way you could guard against that "cheat" is to have some restrictions of how many actions a client can do per time unit...
16:23:15  <fjb> I saw somebody using copy and paste in a network game. He desynct for more often than the other players.
16:24:37  <fjb> Some allowed actions are also anoying. Somebody tearing stations apart to their maximum size and then making a lot of mony with a handfull truck only travelling 3 tiles each....
16:25:08  <SmatZ> yes... why limit these "cheats", when people can do much worse things without them
16:25:26  <SmatZ> also, I don't really thing "copy & paste" can be called a cheat
16:25:43  <fjb> Many nice features can be abused.
16:26:09  <skidd13> SmatZ: I don't think its a cheat too, but for some people it is
16:26:33  <fjb> You have no chance with a real network against this large station and short way thing, when the server allows really large stations.
16:26:54  <SmatZ> it is impossible to detect any kind of "cheats" ... if you limit actions per second, then the actions will be divided into more frames etc.
16:27:41  <SmatZ> fjb: yes, this is why admins and server rules are there :)
16:28:27  <fjb> SmatZ: Bad thing is if one of the admins is using this.
16:28:50  <SmatZ> if people don't like server, then they won't use it...
16:29:44  <fjb> I don't think the other players understood what his seaminly random stations in the middle of nowhere were good for.
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16:31:33  <fjb> I needed some time to find it out. And I only had that time because I started late in that game and had to wait for money coming in while the other players were busy building things.
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16:34:10  <SmatZ> the question is whether by using modified server is not violating GPL
16:34:30  <fjb> Why should it violate the GPL?
16:34:39  <SmatZ> if clients do not know about these modifications and they do not have sources available
16:35:18  <SmatZ> well... there were questions where using of a modified apache server forces the web owner to release his modified source codes
16:35:30  <SmatZ> because in fact, the clients are using GPLed software
16:35:43  <SmatZ> so all modifications should be public available
16:36:53  <glx> using a modified server is not distributing it
16:37:40  <SmatZ> glx you have to distribute source codes to everyone who uses the application
16:38:00  <SmatZ> I do not exactly now how this was solved, but GPL3 will probably be more strict about that
16:38:45  <stillunknown> GPL2 does not affect web applications (i think).
16:38:54  <stillunknown> Since binaries are not spread.
16:40:17  <fjb> And somedody cheating with a patched OpenTTD client doesn't distribute his client. At least not if his not too stupid.
16:43:30  <SmatZ> about GPL3 + web applications
16:43:47  <SmatZ> but it is rather old...
16:44:13  <dihedral> i was more thinking along the lines of banning with pb - but of course that was a nonsense thought of mine
16:45:50  <fjb> dihedral: You can hardly force people to install software on their computers that helps you to ban them. :-)
16:46:28  <dihedral> sure can :-)
16:46:44  <dihedral> just dont know if anything was available :-P
16:46:51  <dihedral> s/was/is
16:47:02  <dihedral>  /
16:47:02  <fjb> You are working for the movie industry? :-)
16:47:26  <dihedral> ?
16:48:06  <fjb> Then you can force (or trick in) people to install almost everything on their computers, even root kits.
16:48:39  <dihedral> some et servers require you to be using pb, else you cannot connect
16:49:37  <dihedral> but i know that pb is closed source
16:50:05  <dihedral> and i doubt that pb could be used for banning
16:50:13  <dihedral> but it was at least a shot in the dark :-P
16:53:35  <fjb> There are many OpenTTD servers. I don't think many people would be using your servers if they would have to install something like that. Some even have problems installing grfs...
16:55:43  <dihedral> so - that aint my problem is it
16:55:59  <dihedral> as long as i keep 'griefers' away with something like that i am happy
16:57:00  <fjb> I fear you are also keeping most nice users away that way.
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16:58:56  <dihedral> fjb: also not my problem
16:59:38  <dihedral> i have a bunch of blacklisted isp's in my firewall
16:59:57  <dihedral> which to be honest has already made a small difference
17:00:41  <dihedral> if that affects others (which it mostlikely does) well - there are enough servers out there
17:00:44  <fjb> I thought you like players using your servers... :-)
17:01:26  <Bjarni> that's a lie
17:01:44  <Bjarni> all admins sooner or later realise that players are nothing but problems
17:01:52  <dihedral> aye
17:02:00  <dihedral> at least those admins who care
17:02:16  <dihedral> i have seen enough servers where admins just are never present
17:02:16  <fjb> Ok, then let nobdy in. Just burn the energy. :-)
17:02:26  <Bjarni> we would make AI clients to prevent real players from demanding fairness on servers
17:02:30  <dihedral> fjb: the server is mainly there for myself
17:03:00  <dihedral> if i password the games i also have only a few players there
17:03:07  <Bjarni> <fjb> Ok, then let nobdy in. Just burn the energy. :-) <-- well... the game provides it's own coal and coal powered powerplants... I see no reason for stopping it
17:03:19  <dihedral> :-P
17:03:23  <fjb> I find it a bit boring to play alone sometimes. And I would be lost to play on four servers at once.
17:03:38  <dihedral> fjb: nobody forces you :-)
17:03:55  <dihedral> nobody has to show you a door in online games if you dont like them
17:03:58  <fjb> dihedral: I see, were are different. :-)
17:04:15  <dihedral> and never ever think that a player does an admin a favour
17:04:20  <dihedral> the games are there for the players
17:04:24  <dihedral> not the player for the game
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17:05:26  <fjb> I have to admit that I'm feeling a bit frustrated when I had set up a server and nobody is using it. Why doing that work then?
17:05:54  <dihedral> fjb: it's even more work when people use it
17:06:04  <dihedral> you pay for more bandwidth in some cases
17:06:17  <dihedral> you want start wanting to keep the darn thing up to date
17:06:27  <dihedral> you want to make sure no idiots come in to ruin the game
17:06:33  <dihedral> excuse the word no
17:07:24  <dihedral> and you possibly start writing patches because the servers dont allow the administrative fun you'd like to have
17:07:32  <fjb> Then it's even less work to not set up a server at all. A non networked game ist enough for me alone.
17:07:50  <dihedral> if you have not noticed - i never play on my own servers
17:08:03  <Bjarni> they lag that much?
17:08:17  <fjb> dihedral: I didn't notice, don't know your servers that long.
17:08:19  <dihedral> lol
17:08:50  <dihedral> Bjarni: they only lag when max_ships is > 0 and some guy actually makes use of that
17:08:57  <dihedral> :-P
17:09:01  * dihedral slaps yapf for ships
17:09:16  <dihedral> and - no - yapf for ships has been disabled
17:09:31  <Bjarni> ships sucks
17:10:01  <Bjarni> they do so in real life too
17:10:13  <Bjarni> they suck in sea water to cool the engines
17:10:33  <dihedral> lol
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17:11:39  <dihedral> fjb: i have about 1GB bandwidth every day just for ottd...
17:12:46  <Bjarni> I presume that is how much you actually transmit
17:12:54  <Bjarni> not a hard limit
17:13:08  <fjb> dihedral: I fear that would be much less if you start forcing people to install aditional software, espacilly when it somehow spies on the installed software.
17:13:09  <dihedral> Bjarni: i have not bw limit
17:13:24  <dihedral> fjb: i do not care if that is less
17:13:38  <dihedral> i care for 'quallity' and 'undistrubed' games
17:13:46  <dihedral> *undisturbed
17:13:57  <Bjarni> otherwise people who logs in at 22:00 might end up with a sign saying that they will have to wait until midnight because the bandwidth quota for the day is ussed
17:14:01  <Bjarni> -s
17:14:10  <dihedral> lol
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17:14:23  <dihedral> i am on a 100Mbit link and have not bw limit
17:14:31  <Bjarni> that should specially suck if it happens in the middle of a game
17:15:01  <dihedral> if there were the case i would turn down net_frame_freq :-P
17:15:40  <fjb> Bjarni: You could enhace the protocol with some digital signature to identify people. I guess that is what you are looking for.
17:16:00  <Bjarni> ?
17:16:01  <dihedral> great fjb: it's opensource...
17:16:25  <fjb> Ofcourse it is. PGP is opensource, too.
17:16:31  <dihedral> unless of course all network communication went through a closed source blackbox
17:16:40  * dihedral slaps fjb
17:16:50  <fjb> You don't need a black box for it.
17:16:56  <dihedral> pgp generates certificats
17:17:06  <fjb> Yes, also ssh.
17:17:07  <Bjarni>  /* please keep the next few lines a big secret. They are used to ban people who spoils the games and it will only work if it's kept secret how it works */
17:17:13  <Bjarni> you mean something like that?
17:17:29  <dihedral> nice :-P
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17:17:47  <fjb> I meant digital signatures using cetificates, like ssl etc.
17:18:21  <Bjarni> you mean the server should be able to accept only ssl clients?
17:18:22  <fjb> And every played would have to get a certificate first before being allowed to play on that server.
17:18:29  <dihedral> yes - and i add _every_ public key in the world of every play to let them play on my servers
17:18:32  <fjb> Kind of.
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17:18:47  <dihedral> and who sais i dont generate more than one key?
17:19:04  <Bjarni> fjb, I presume
17:19:25  <fjb> You generate certificates. And a ban would simply be e revocation of that certificate.
17:19:35  <dihedral> then i generate a new one
17:19:40  <dihedral> and another one
17:19:44  <dihedral> and perhaps 5 while i am at it
17:19:50  <Bjarni> we get the idea
17:19:57  <fjb> The server generates the certificates, not the player.
17:20:01  <dihedral> of course _you_ do Bjarni
17:20:07  <Bjarni> :)
17:20:20  <dihedral> fjb: and how does a player get his cert?
17:20:28  <fjb> The generating could be an automatik.
17:20:28  <dihedral> a web form?
17:20:41  <dihedral> for each server, or for the masterserver?
17:20:55  <fjb> He has to subscribe at your server and gets the certificate that way.
17:21:01  <fjb> Yes
17:21:07  <Bjarni> if the client discards his certificate how will the server know that it's an old user and not generate a new one?
17:21:21  <dihedral> and then gets baned, and subscribs again...
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17:21:37  <dihedral> base it on email address? well - a bunch of people have unlimited
17:21:49  * Bjarni has unlimited
17:21:49  <dihedral> base it on ip? back to the same problem
17:21:55  * dihedral too
17:21:57  <fjb> Nobody gets in without a certificate. and dihedral doesn't care for users not willing to subscribe.
17:22:07  * dihedral slaps fjb
17:22:13  <dihedral> wake up dude
17:22:14  <fjb> use postident etc.
17:22:16  <Bjarni> well.. there is a limit... I only have one for every .qmail I have in my homedir
17:22:20  <Bjarni> so.... like 30
17:22:32  <dihedral> Bjarni: redirects...?
17:22:34  <dihedral> aliases
17:22:42  <dihedral> catchall?
17:23:00  <fjb> Think of something else. Not only an email address.
17:23:01  <Bjarni> they all end up in the same maildir (also in my homedir)
17:23:06  <Bjarni> but I can split them if I like
17:23:08  <fjb> Fingerprint maybe.
17:23:13  <Bjarni> it's just easier to join them
17:23:28  <Bjarni> and then my mail app can sort them based on the "to:" field
17:24:36  <fjb> dihedral: You were looking for a way to surly ban people without them simply rejoining under another name. Digital signatures are the only secure way.
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17:24:54  <dihedral> fjb: they are not going to work
17:25:01  <dihedral> not to 100% ban someone
17:25:23  * Bjarni knows a way
17:25:31  <Bjarni> ban *.de
17:25:37  <dihedral> turn the servers of or play sp
17:25:38  <Bjarni> or whatever
17:25:38  <fjb> Bjarni: we are listening.
17:25:48  <fjb> :-)
17:25:51  <Bjarni> it will ban too many people but it will work
17:26:59  <Bjarni> well
17:27:03  <Bjarni> there is another way
17:27:15  <Bjarni> make a central client box where you log in
17:27:42  <Bjarni> the server can then ask if you are you (the server will not get your central pw, only that you are logged in with your IP)
17:27:59  <Bjarni> and then we need to figure out some way of maintaining that user database
17:28:11  <Bjarni> like it will likely have to be manually controlled
17:28:35  <Bjarni> by whoever we can trust and fool into spending ages of time on it
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17:29:15  <Bjarni> the servers should then log everything so a client can be backtraced if something goes wrong
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17:29:26  <Bjarni> like 1/4 of the land turns into water
17:30:23  <dihedral> Bjarni: do a certificate system where people have to 'donate to openttd' for a cert :-D
17:30:29  <dihedral> 10$ minimum :-P
17:30:46  <Bjarni> the server can then give out a savegame of the game start and a log file so all clients can be tracked
17:31:01  <Bjarni> dihedral: that's actually the best idea that I have heard so far
17:31:08  <dihedral> :-)
17:31:13  <dihedral> i mentioned it a few times
17:31:17  <dihedral> months ago
17:31:22  <Bjarni> if people wants to spoil games over and over then they will have to pay over and over
17:31:29  <dihedral> ;-)
17:31:33  <dihedral> i actually like it
17:32:04  <Bjarni> we need a backdoor for our own people
17:32:09  <dihedral> and of course it's easy to find out if a cert was signed by a certain ca
17:32:10  <Bjarni> read: I don't have paypal
17:32:43  <fjb> Use the credit card number instead. :-)
17:32:51  <Bjarni> err
17:32:53  <dihedral> well - that is the easiest thing to work around if you have access to the ca cert
17:33:03  <Bjarni> I don't have a credit card that will accept
17:33:16  <dihedral> you take a cheque?
17:33:19  <dihedral> :-P
17:33:33  <fjb> Bjarni: Then you are not allowed to play on dihedral's servers. :-P
17:33:34  <dihedral> Bjarni: implement it - fast - for release of 0.6 :-P
17:34:01  <dihedral> fjb: i think i could read code well enough to allow certain ip's :-P
17:34:16  <dihedral> besids - i doubt Bjarni plays that much
17:34:26  * fjb knows how to spoof ips.
17:35:08  <dihedral> fjb: yes - but will tcp packets get routed back to you - NO
17:35:14  <dihedral> tada
17:35:25  * dihedral feels like slapping someone
17:35:28  <dihedral> :-P
17:35:51  <Bjarni> <dihedral> besids - i doubt Bjarni plays that much <-- I don't play online because it's always spoiled by lamers
17:36:01  <fjb> Who need the answers of a ip connection? Just play blind. TTD is much too easy anyway...
17:36:30  * dihedral nearly feels like ignoring someone :-P
17:36:33  <Bjarni> we should make it harder
17:36:57  <dihedral> Bjarni: yes - an options tab: specify your own calculations for:
17:37:12  <dihedral> chances of indu in/decrease
17:37:15  <dihedral> ...
17:37:31  <dihedral> actually - basecost modifyer .grf is pretty helpful in making games harder
17:37:50  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@] has joined #openttd
17:38:01  * fjb liked Ammller's modifier more.
17:38:11  <Wolf01> hello
17:38:25  <Bjarni> I don't like the interface in SimuTrans but the economy model and cargo destinations works quite well
17:38:35  <Bjarni> maybe we should be inspired
17:38:44  <dihedral> fjb: the base cost modifyer is by ammler
17:38:59  <fjb> dihedral: Then I liked it.
17:39:16  <Bjarni> liked? as in past tense... now you dislike it?
17:42:12  <fjb> Bjarni: No, I still like it. But I guess most of the other players didn't.
17:42:39  <fjb> One click, 22 million... :-)
17:43:09  <fjb> 22 million to pay ofcourse.
17:43:11  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:43:18  <fjb> Oh, hi Wolf01
17:43:40  <dihedral> @seen Sacro
17:43:40  <DorpsGek> dihedral: Sacro was last seen in #openttd 15 hours, 31 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Sacro> alright, you got me there
17:43:42  <dihedral> :-)
17:43:57  <dihedral> join me :-P
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17:46:55  <fjb> dihedral: Who should join you? Sacro?
17:47:45  * dihedral bets Bjarni got it...
17:47:52  *** divoafx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:48:14  <Bjarni> huh?
17:48:33  *** divoafx [] has joined #openttd
17:49:03  <Bjarni> I was just being serious
17:49:15  <Bjarni> and by serious I mean that I put IRC in the background
17:49:30  <Bjarni> I know it's a horrible thing to do but that's what I did
17:49:54  <Bjarni> and now I have to figure out what I got
17:50:04  <fjb> Bjarni: Be ashamed. :-)
17:50:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11527 /trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Split the bitmath functions of to their own files
17:51:08  <fjb> dihedral: Why are you using some incompatible grfs at once on your servers?
17:51:24  <Bjarni> to harass the clients
17:51:32  <dihedral> fjb: what are you talking about??
17:51:56  <dihedral> i did not set the grf's at least not for the current games
17:54:06  *** Gege [] has joined #openttd
17:54:24  <Gege> good day
17:54:33  <fjb> The north american train set and the tropic refurbishment set together in tropic climate is not a good idea. So is using the noth american set and the uk sets together in tempearte climate not the best thing to do.
17:54:39  <fjb> Hi Gege
17:54:48  <Gege> i found a bug in the openttd 0.5.6 openttd console
17:55:13  <glx> 0.5.6 doesn't exist
17:55:27  <Gege> i dont try the 0.6
17:56:22  <dihedral> funny guy
17:56:34  <dihedral> fjb: like i said - i did not set the grf's for the current games
17:57:19  <dihedral> anyway - i am off
17:57:22  <dihedral> enjoy
17:58:21  <fjb> dihedral: You could tell it to your admin to corrct it for the next games.
17:58:27  <fjb> Bye dihedral
18:00:14  <dihedral> yes - fjb: i dont need hints on what and how to communicate things to my fellow admins... :-)
18:00:24  *** Aerandir [] has joined #openttd
18:00:31  <dihedral> anyhow - have a nice evening
18:06:45  *** Greyscale [] has joined #openttd
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18:17:52  <fjb> How is the town grows calculated for towns in the desert? Du the have to just get water and food, or is it import how many stations in the town get the water and food deleivered to?
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18:42:12  <Sacro> 'ning
18:49:31  *** Gege [] has quit []
18:52:04  <Sacro> public static string RemoveSpecialCharsExceptQuoteAmpersandApostropheOpenBracketCloseBracketCommaHyphenFullStopCommaForwardSlash (string p_string)
18:52:20  <hylje> ye olde
19:01:51  <SmatZ> yum yum coconut bar in milk chcolate ...
19:02:09  <Belugas> Bounty!
19:02:27  <hylje> a coconut and milk chocolate walked into a bar..
19:02:41  <SmatZ> almost Bounty, cheaper, but tastes the same
19:02:45  <SmatZ> :-D
19:03:06  <hylje> i suppose its name is "Coconut bar in milk chcolate"
19:04:25  <SmatZ> Mister Choc : Mini-Cocos
19:04:44  <SmatZ> from Lidl :-/
19:04:55  <SmatZ>
19:05:10  <Belugas> slurp
19:05:13  <Belugas> miam miam
19:05:31  *** blathijs_ is now known as blathijs
19:05:56  *** Farden [] has joined #openttd
19:06:12  <SmatZ> :-)
19:06:44  <hylje> om nom nom
19:07:52  <Sacro> yay lidl
19:08:44  <SmatZ> I am shy from it
19:09:47  *** elmex [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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19:24:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r11528 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11500): With smooth economy enabled, industries that should only decrease production would always increase it when more than 60% was transported.
19:24:46  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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19:46:27  *** Mucht [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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19:58:58  *** Sacro` [Ben@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:59:13  <Sacro`> damn KC
19:59:36  <Belugas> yummy KFC
19:59:45  <Prof_Frink> karoo!
19:59:45  <Gonozal_VIII> ?
20:00:15  <Bjarni> !
20:01:15  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- karoo? :S
20:01:23  <Prof_Frink> “
20:01:31  <Bjarni> ¿
20:02:25  <Gonozal_VIII> trillian can't decode those signs :-/
20:02:41  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:02:54  <Bjarni>
20:03:11  *** thgergo [] has joined #openttd
20:03:11  *** Sacro` is now known as Sacro
20:03:26  <Gonozal_VIII> [21:01:23] Prof_Frink: ⠀ œ
20:03:26  <Gonozal_VIII> [21:01:31] Bjarni: Â ¿
20:03:42  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: You UTFail-8
20:03:58  <Gonozal_VIII> i know, trillian irc plugin can't do that
20:04:21  <Prof_Frink> How fail of it.
20:05:00  <Maedhros> boo. it seems i fail at utf-8 too
20:07:07  *** Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta1 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 encoding is mandatory in this channel | And please, no Posting
20:07:28  <Gonozal_VIII> pffff :P
20:08:17  <Bjarni> ok I better go check and see if people follow the channel rules
20:08:35  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Load up
20:08:56  <Bjarni> what's that?
20:08:59  <Bjarni> and where?
20:09:08  <Bjarni> besides there is no war in here
20:09:10  <Maedhros>, by the sounds of it
20:09:17  <Bjarni> we have a pretty simple rule
20:09:48  *** svippery [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:09:54  <Bjarni> oops
20:10:09  <Bjarni> I wanted a new tab in firefox, not Xchat :|
20:11:00  *** svip [] has joined #openttd
20:11:31  <Bjarni> found it
20:11:45  <Bjarni> but... what should I do with it?
20:11:52  <Bjarni> you really want me to script ban people using a wrong charset?
20:12:13  <Prof_Frink> Well, give them three strikes ;)
20:12:14  <Gonozal_VIII> O_o
20:12:29  <fjb> Today is banning day...
20:12:45  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: you are mean
20:12:59  <Bjarni> I see no reason to ban Gonozal_VIII
20:13:06  <Bjarni> within the next 5 minutes
20:13:23  <Bjarni> besides scripting are for lazy people
20:13:31  <Bjarni> it's not like IRC is meant to be efficient
20:13:43  <fjb> Scripting take the fun out of banning.
20:13:51  <fjb> takes
20:14:33  <Bjarni> but maybe I should script logging of typos so I can ban people who fails to live up to our high standard
20:14:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r11529 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
20:14:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-11-26 21:13:37
20:14:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed by fukumori (1)
20:14:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed, 2 changed by arnaullv (3)
20:14:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 fixed by habell (1)
20:14:41  <Prof_Frink> | Typos *will* lead to bans |
20:14:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed, 1 changed by glx (2)
20:14:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 1 fixed by lorenzodv (1)
20:14:53  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Great minds...
20:15:07  <Maedhros> which high standard is that then? :-P
20:15:20  <Bjarni> like when people leaves the u out of colours
20:16:03  * fjb is nonstandard anyway.
20:16:46  <Bjarni> I bet fjb use a gauge of 1337 mm on his railroad
20:17:07  <fjb> Yeah. :-)
20:18:21  <Prof_Frink> Pfft
20:18:24  * Sacro installs VS9
20:18:30  <Prof_Frink> Standard gauge is 7px.
20:18:46  *** skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
20:18:56  * Sacro fancies going to a caf?
20:19:06  <Prof_Frink> s/caf/pub/
20:19:20  <Sacro> mmm, could go to 'spoons
20:19:40  <Prof_Frink> Also, when's openttd going to understand I run on a GNU box?
20:19:47  * Bjarni gives a warning to Sacro for making typos in pub
20:20:16  <Maedhros> why should it care whether it's a GNU box or not?
20:20:31  <Prof_Frink> Well, it says quit to UNIX
20:20:39  <Bjarni> ahh
20:20:39  <SmatZ> making typos in pub?
20:20:44  <Prof_Frink> And GNU's Not Unix Not Unix Not Unix...
20:20:49  <Bjarni> [21:18:55]  * Sacro fancies going to a caf?
20:20:49  <Bjarni> [21:19:06]  <Prof_Frink> s/caf/pub/
20:21:16  <fjb> Linux is not UNIX. I'm voting for changing that line on Linux.
20:21:50  <hylje> Linux is not UniX
20:22:03  <Prof_Frink> Or just "Quit to desktop" for a platform-agnostic message
20:22:20  <fjb> Which desktop? :-)
20:22:30  <SmatZ> if Linux was named Minus, then it would be Minux
20:22:39  <SmatZ> etc.
20:22:53  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: edit AskExitGame() in intro_gui.cpp line 120 to add whatever you think should be there
20:22:53  <Prof_Frink> SmatZ: Unlilely, Tannenbaum would have a fit.
20:23:05  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: what if you aren't using a desktop?
20:23:07  <Bjarni> and add the string to lang/english.txt as well
20:23:11  <Sacro> what if you run it in a framebuffer
20:23:29  <SmatZ> *Linus
20:23:43  <fjb> Linux started as a copyright violation.
20:23:49  <Prof_Frink> *Tanenbaum
20:24:36  <fjb> Prof_Frink: Don't make typos. :-)
20:24:45  <Prof_Frink> fjb: Not a typo.
20:24:53  * Bjarni adds a warning point to Prof_Frink
20:24:54  <SmatZ> *Unlikely
20:25:03  <Gonozal_VIII> tannenbaum is a valid word, that's a tree :-)
20:25:12  <Prof_Frink> SmatZ: OK, that one was
20:25:24  <Sacro> oh tannenbaum oh tannenbaum
20:25:27  <Bjarni> several words are valid words
20:25:30  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: Yeah, but it's not the guy who invented Minix
20:25:46  <Bjarni> butt wee should still use the right word :P
20:26:00  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
20:26:01  <Sacro> wie grÃŒn sind deine blatter
20:26:08  <fjb> Bjarni: Don't make typos. :-)
20:26:14  <Prof_Frink> My hovercraft is full of eels.
20:26:21  * Sacro sniggers
20:26:27  <Sacro> rofl... butt wee
20:26:53  <Bjarni> those are valid words..... it changes the meaning of the sentence but they are valid words
20:27:13  <hylje> its one thing to be valid
20:27:18  <hylje> another to make sense
20:27:22  <Prof_Frink> Much like... Your all gay.
20:27:26  <Bjarni> that's my point
20:27:40  *** Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [incorrect statement]
20:27:48  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
20:27:58  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: I was referring to the website
20:28:03  <Prof_Frink>
20:28:04  <SmatZ> "Your all gay" - "I am gay of all of you"
20:28:13  <Bjarni> oh
20:28:15  <hylje> your
20:28:21  <Prof_Frink> Sacro knoweth.
20:28:36  <Bjarni> I don't know gay websites so I had no idea
20:28:40  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: you're
20:29:45  * Bjarni picks up a machine gun and fires typo penalty points at everybody
20:29:51  <Bjarni> your spelling sucks :P
20:30:11  *** bob27 [] has joined #openttd
20:30:26  <Bjarni> hi bob
20:30:37  <bob27> hi
20:30:38  <Bjarni> everybody say hi to bob
20:30:42  <bob27> ok?
20:30:49  <Gonozal_VIII> hi to bob
20:31:15  <hylje> rob
20:31:30  <Bjarni> hylje: no that's the thing we do to him after saying hi
20:31:30  <fjb> Hi bob
20:31:38  <Bjarni> keep the order!
20:31:44  <bob27> what the?
20:32:47  * Maedhros ponders adding an "Exit to Linux" option
20:33:08  <Maedhros> except the only sensible macro i can think of to choose with is "__GLIBC__", and that doesn't mean you're running Linux
20:33:15  <hylje> exit to X
20:33:23  *** oh [] has quit [Quit: oh]
20:33:49  <Prof_Frink> hylje: As Sacro said earlier, you might be running on a framebuffer
20:33:54  <Bjarni> does it make sense to use that many different strings instead of "quit the game" or "quit to desktop"?
20:34:26  *** thgergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:34:39  <Prof_Frink> Maedhros: Check output of uname?
20:34:46  <Bjarni> we started with 2, then 3, then 4 and nobody wanted to make a change to other platforms at that time when porting
20:35:01  <Bjarni> maybe it's time to do something a bit more simple
20:35:16  <fjb> better "Quit the game"
20:35:26  <Prof_Frink> fjb: Seconded
20:35:31  <Prof_Frink> Except
20:35:46  <fjb> "Quit to real life"
20:35:51  <Bjarni> <--- I mean... instead of extending this if elif cascade...
20:35:51  <fjb> :-)
20:35:51  * Sacro just lost the game :(
20:35:53  <Prof_Frink> That would mean you would lose The Game every time you exit openttd
20:35:55  <SmatZ> Doom had nice quit messages... like "Do you dare to quit the game?" "Beware, there is a demon somewhere"... or os
20:35:56  <Sacro> grab the file from Doom?
20:36:02  <Sacro> SmatZ: damn you :p
20:36:04  <SmatZ> :-D
20:36:07  <hylje> Prof_Frink: why not
20:36:55  <Bjarni> "are you sure you want to quit this game? Your {inset name of vehicle type the player has most of} needs you"
20:37:13  <Gonozal_VIII> alpha centauri :D
20:37:25  <Prof_Frink> I think "Are you sure you want to cancel not leaving the game?"
20:37:29  *** thgergo [] has joined #openttd
20:37:56  <Bjarni> how is the quit message in Alpha Centauri?
20:37:58  <fjb> :-)
20:38:34  <Gonozal_VIII> something like the line you wrote... "..the drones need you"
20:38:40  <Bjarni> heh
20:38:44  <Bjarni> copycats
20:38:47  <Bjarni> they stole my idea
20:39:22  <Prof_Frink> "Don't leave me... It's scary in here..."
20:39:27  <fjb> Bjarni: Are you related To Michael Blunck?
20:39:36  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, they stole it 8 years before you had it... bastards!
20:39:37  <Bjarni> I sure hope not
20:40:11  <Bjarni>  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, they stole it 8 years before you had it... bastards! <--- ever studied temporal mechanics theory?
20:40:11  <fjb> He always tells people that he had the same idea long ago and he invented everything. :-)
20:40:32  *** Rexxars [] has joined #openttd
20:40:33  <bob27> Are you sure you want to cancel the quiting proccess potentialaly exposing yourself again to the dangers of watching the ai play for too long?
20:40:37  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Can you fix my time machine?
20:40:44  <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> "Don't leave me... It's scary in here..." <-- this could be the line to use if the client has no vehicles
20:41:05  <Prof_Frink> "When you go, the UFOs come..."
20:41:26  <Bjarni> we should write all of those ideas down and then use a random one of them each time
20:42:16  <fjb> Or we should add it to the tread "You know you played to much OpenTTD when..."
20:42:34  <Bjarni> no
20:42:45  <Bjarni> adding it to the final 0.6.0 would be way funnier
20:42:54  <Bjarni> and.... I can do that :D
20:42:59  <SmatZ> :-D
20:43:11  <Gonozal_VIII> please don't go the drones need you ... they look up to you... <-- that's the line in alpha centauri
20:43:35  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: "Time wasted this session: <> Total time wasted: <>"
20:43:52  *** ufoun [] has joined #openttd
20:44:09  <fjb> Bjarni: Go ahaed. :-)
20:44:21  * Bjarni actually considers doing this
20:44:28  <bob27> please do
20:45:12  <bob27> it would be funny
20:46:19  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Make it check the current date, and, if April 1st, disable "Yes"
20:46:35  <Bjarni> or move it when clicked
20:46:47  <Bjarni> the button that runs away from you
20:46:57  <SmatZ> :-D
20:47:08  <Bjarni> I once saw an app like that
20:47:45  <bob27> there's some virus that does that
20:47:45  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Yes. Normally it says something like "Are you gay?".
20:47:55  <Bjarni> it opened a window saying that the system crashed (copied the OS crash window) and when you moved the mouse closer than x pixels from the restart button, it started to move away from the mouse so you could never click it
20:49:08  <Bjarni> it was kind of like the same as the one that moved the menus in all apps around every time you clicked it
20:49:54  <Bjarni> so when you moved the mouse to file and you clicked the mouse button, it might move file to the far right and you actually clicked the menu that moved to the mouse location and it could be say options or edit
20:50:33  <Bjarni> we could do all sorts of stuff on the first of April
20:50:45  <Bjarni> how about.... shuffle the toolbar icons, but not the functions?
20:50:46  *** Greyscale [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:51:04  <hylje> ..
20:51:05  <fjb> Bad... :-)
20:51:09  <Gonozal_VIII> random sprite mix
20:51:10  <hylje> april fools sillyness?
20:51:36  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: I have it.
20:51:43  <Gonozal_VIII> planes that look like flying houses and stuff like that^^
20:51:48  <Prof_Frink> Every climate -> Toyland
20:51:56  <Bjarni> LOL
20:52:15  * Bjarni takes notes
20:52:23  <Gonozal_VIII> that would be too evil Prof_Frink
20:52:34  <Bjarni> that's why I take notes
20:52:55  <bob27> ill be back
20:52:56  <Bjarni> it earns him an evil point for saying something like that
20:52:56  *** bob27 [] has left #openttd []
20:53:12  <Bjarni> <bob27> ill be back <-- that one could be used as a quit message as well
20:53:34  <Bjarni> I like how he reacted to us greeting him
20:53:40  <Prof_Frink> Maybe disable with `openttd --ok-stop-i-give-up-just-let-me-play-without-gouging-my eyes-out`
20:53:41  <Bjarni> we should do so again next time he shows up
20:53:50  <Gonozal_VIII> the ai could write words with train tracks or roads into the landscape
20:54:16  <Bjarni> all road vehicles drives backwards
20:54:35  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: s/road / and you're onto something there
20:55:13  <fjb> :-)
20:55:23  <Bjarni> it would be too tricky with trains :(
20:55:38  <Gonozal_VIII> mirror the sprites?
20:55:42  <Prof_Frink> Just reverse each vehicle in the consist
20:56:07  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: No need to mirror, just use the > sprite when moving <, etc
20:56:07  <Bjarni> some GRF files are buggy and then it looks horribly when mirroring each unit
20:56:21  <Bjarni> like they don't turn the sprite at the centre
20:56:31  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:56:40  <Bjarni> I already coded this feature but we got a bug report on it due to this issue
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20:58:12  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm could you let all vehicles ignore track/terrain restrictions and drive through grass and water?
20:58:16  <Prof_Frink> Or, just see if openttd's being run as root, then send some login details to
20:58:46  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: it already does that at all dates so adding that to the first of April makes little sense
20:59:39  <Bjarni> ohh... now I got a new idea: random popup window saying "WARNING: windows detected on your computer"
20:59:39  <Prof_Frink> Oh, on April 1, send it to
21:00:07  <Bjarni> maybe as the newspaper headlines
21:00:19  <Gonozal_VIII> then on 1. april your trains woul leave the tracks and make some circles around the map before they return to where they left track
21:00:21  <Prof_Frink> Subject: "Developers Developes Developers"
21:02:38  <fjb> Bjarni: I the feature disabled that lets vehicles go backward? Some never train sets are stating to use it.
21:03:13  *** bob27 [] has joined #openttd
21:03:24  <Bjarni> hi bob
21:03:28  <Bjarni> everybody say hi to bob
21:03:33  <SmatZ> lol
21:03:33  <Gonozal_VIII> hi to bob
21:03:35  <bob27> oh god.
21:03:38  <SmatZ> hi bob
21:04:21  <Belugas> hi bob
21:04:24  <Prof_Frink> 'Lo bob. You have pie?
21:04:31  <Belugas> welcome in our humble channel
21:04:51  <fjb> Hi bob
21:04:57  <dihedral> :-)
21:05:41  * dihedral will go to bed now...
21:05:47  <dihedral> night
21:05:53  <Gonozal_VIII> night
21:05:56  <Bjarni> night
21:06:08  <Prof_Frink> night
21:06:15  <fjb> noght
21:06:20  <Prof_Frink> fail
21:06:29  <fjb> night
21:06:34  <fjb> better?
21:06:38  <bob27> Prof_Frini: i  have apple pie  in the fridge
21:06:39  <Prof_Frink> yaarp.
21:06:49  <Prof_Frink> Want pie now.
21:07:15  <bob27> umm, it's kinda hard to stuff pie down phone lines.
21:07:44  <Prof_Frink> PIE!
21:07:55  <Prof_Frink> When come back, bring pie.
21:08:00  <Prof_Frink> Wanker.
21:08:07  <Maedhros> good night
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21:08:23  <fjb> good night
21:08:29  <Gonozal_VIII> night
21:08:35  <Prof_Frink> g'night
21:08:41  <SmatZ> night
21:08:42  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:08:47  <fjb> day
21:09:44  <Bjarni>  <bob27> umm, it's kinda hard to stuff pie down phone lines. <-- scan it and send it to Prof_Frink
21:09:57  *** BigBB [] has joined #openttd
21:10:12  <Prof_Frink> Are none of you aware of the works of the mighty Jonti Picking?
21:10:19  <Gonozal_VIII> with one of the new 3d scanners
21:10:22  <Prof_Frink> I know Sacro is.
21:10:22  <fjb> A digitized oie? Then Prof_Frinkneed an analoger.
21:10:26  <fjb> pie
21:10:53  <Sacro> mein ginger fuhrer!
21:11:09  <Gonozal_VIII> ?
21:11:18  <Prof_Frink> We need a more efficient way of transferring pie over the 'net.
21:11:27  <Prof_Frink> Some kind of pie-to-peer protocol
21:12:16  <bob27> hmm, maybe one day I'll get rich off of that, or should I make it open source?
21:12:36  <Prof_Frink> bob27: Pies are always better with sauce.
21:12:45  <Bjarni> open source
21:12:53  <Bjarni> or would that be open sauce?
21:12:54  <Gonozal_VIII> open sauce
21:13:06  <Bjarni> hah I beat you to it :P
21:13:07  <bob27> nice
21:13:09  <Bjarni> by one sec
21:13:13  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Nope
21:13:23  <Gonozal_VIII> open sauce pie-to-peer protocol :-)
21:13:23  <Bjarni> [22:12:53]  <Bjarni> or would that be open sauce?
21:13:23  <Bjarni> [22:12:54]  <Gonozal_VIII> open sauce
21:13:34  <Prof_Frink> I beat you by nine.
21:13:50  <SmatZ> !seen peter1138
21:13:56  <SmatZ> @seen peter1138
21:13:56  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 10 weeks, 2 days, 6 hours, 22 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <peter1138> _minime_, looks good to me
21:14:07  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Make an rfc.
21:14:21  <Prof_Frink> Did someone send peter1138 a WoW trial?
21:14:27  <SmatZ> lol
21:15:06  <Prof_Frink> SmatZ: It's not a joke. Why do you think ttdpatch has been at beta9 for so long?
21:15:29  <SmatZ> :-D
21:15:57  <Belugas> let say that peter1138 is on a sabatic workload ;)
21:16:20  <Belugas> anyway, we have some kind of a new non-proclamed leader...
21:16:28  <Prof_Frink> Or is it because of SpBot?
21:17:21  <SpComb> lies, falseties and besmirchment
21:19:37  * Sacro besmirches sm
21:19:42  <Sacro> argh
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21:52:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> what is a pie to pee protocol?
21:53:22  <Gonozal_VIII> that's when you give pie to a guy called peer
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21:53:47  <Prof_Frink> peer is a bastard
21:53:56  <Gonozal_VIII> :O
21:54:01  <Gonozal_VIII> my name is peer!
21:54:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> notice the missing "r"?
21:54:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> that was intentional ;)
21:55:13  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: I dunno, it's normally a beer to pee protocol
21:55:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, that's why i find it hard to imagine a pie to pee protocol...
21:56:53  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: Well, if it was a steak and ale pie with *lots* of gravy
21:57:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> err...
21:57:34  <Gonozal_VIII> is gravy that stuff where you extract gravity from?
21:57:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> sorry, i cannot imagine a proper reply to that in a foreign language...
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22:13:46  <fjb> First I didn't like sub-tropic climate. But now I think it looks kind of cute. The houses are looking much nicer than the the houses of the temperate climate:
22:14:31  <Bjarni> I don't like the standard trains
22:14:42  <Bjarni> they all have nearly the same top speed
22:15:00  * fjb is using the tropic refurbishment set. :-)
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22:15:18  <Bjarni> aka I wouldn't play it without using newGRF
22:15:42  <fjb> People seam to like always the same topspeed. Most don't like the limit wagon speed option. :-(
22:15:49  <Gonozal_VIII> the more newgrfs the better :-)
22:16:10  <fjb> Be care full of the combination of newgrfs...
22:16:22  <Gonozal_VIII> i test it a lot for my games
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22:16:30  <fjb> me too
22:16:33  <fjb> :-)
22:16:41  <Bjarni> how come there is only one newGRF file for toyland and it happens to change everything into Mars?
22:16:58  <fjb> What is toyland? :-)
22:17:00  <Gonozal_VIII> only one? i seem to remember more
22:17:08  <Bjarni> there is more?
22:17:13  <Bjarni> I can only remember one
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22:17:48  <Bjarni> and when I tried it, it used toyland sound fxs and I stopped playing like a minute before I went crazy due to those sounds
22:17:58  <Bjarni> aka like 10 minutes into the game
22:18:09  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't play with sounds on anyways
22:18:11  <Bjarni> next time I tried it I muted the computer
22:18:17  * fjb never tried toyland.
22:18:45  * joosa will never try toyland
22:18:59  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:19:03  <Prof_Frink> fjb: Not even for the "Hmm, toyland, what's that like... Mine eyes! They burn! The goggles do nothing!"?
22:19:04  <glx> toyland sounds are funny :)
22:19:39  <glx> but landscape is an eye killer
22:19:44  <Bjarni> toyland is funny
22:19:46  <Bjarni> if muted
22:20:18  <Bjarni> my sister realised that it was a landscape for children and used it
22:20:25  <fjb> Prof_Frink: My eyes are bad enough without hurting them with toyland. :-)
22:20:34  <Bjarni> then she turned 10 and started using temperate maps
22:20:47  <Bjarni> considering toyland to be childish
22:20:52  <fjb> :-)
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22:23:01  <fjb> Girls that age start to feel grown up.
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22:26:56  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:56:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11530 /trunk/src/oldpool.h: -Codechange: do not update Tpool->first_free_index for PoolItems allocated on stack
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23:28:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11531 /trunk/projects/determineversion.vbs: -Fix [FS#1459]: version determination did stall (read: never finish) when both svn and git were not installed.
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23:50:19  <Sacro>;en-us;261186
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23:54:22  <|fjb|> :-)
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