Log for #openttd on 10th January 2008:
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00:22:43  <ln-> wow, i'm receiving events from the CustomView
00:23:05  <ln-> such as key presses
00:23:16  <ln-> one could claim that's quite an important part in an editor.
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00:53:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11804 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp: -Fix(r11797,FS#1636): Industry tiles should receive the same medecine as indstries themselves regarding the resolver's object
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01:44:03  <ln-> congratulations canada for your new 24-hour clock!
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02:07:22  <DaleStan> Rubidium: I do not.
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02:10:46  <Sacro> ooh, signalling changes
02:11:41  <Sacro> :D
02:11:43  <Sacro> ZOMG YAY
02:11:50  <Sacro> SIGNAL.CPP :D
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03:02:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> wÀh, conflicts...
03:08:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... modified foundation building costs conflicts...
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03:31:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> that was weird...
03:32:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> 12 minutes without internet... the horror!
03:32:52  <ln-> do you have irc client on your cell phone?
03:40:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... i have irc on every cell phone i own, if that is what you meant :p
03:45:27  <ln-> excellent
03:45:47  <ln-> how much does 1 MB of gprs data cost?
03:45:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> i just don't actually have any cell phone :p
03:46:34  <ln-> whaaat
03:51:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> lots of restructuring going on in the code... this is the first time i really have to resolve conflicts all over the place
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04:29:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> errr... why is there suddenly such an annoying "save in progress" popup?
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07:46:10  <Ailure> forum is down?
07:46:19  <Ailure> Or is it my connection bein gD: again
07:46:39  <Noldo> seems to be
07:51:06  <Belugas> forums,svn,
07:51:16  <Belugas> EVERYTHING!!!!
07:51:23  <peter__> yeah :/
07:51:25  <Belugas> CAN'T LIVE!!!
07:51:44  <Belugas> mmh... can't sleep either :S
07:51:47  <peter__> yeah
07:51:55  <peter__> was going to say, you're up late :o
07:52:09  <Ailure> well
07:52:13  <Ailure> I realized whatever I needed
07:52:18  <Ailure> is on the openttdcoop site
07:52:20  <Ailure> so :)
07:52:56  <peter__> latest build?
07:52:59  <peter__> current svn
07:53:05  <peter__> bug tracker?
07:53:14  <peter__> they're all needed ;)
07:53:44  <Ailure> ;p
07:53:52  <Ailure> true I guess
07:53:59  <Belugas> bug tracker? naaa...  this one can rest in peace ;)
07:54:16  <Ailure> Call it a vacation
07:54:18  <Ailure> if you must :)
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07:56:43  <Belugas> ok... i guess i should re-try the sleep battle
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08:16:07  <Rubidium> Belugas: the translator, wiki and flyspray do still work ;)
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09:30:20  <canatella> hello
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09:31:14  <canatella> is the web site down ?
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09:43:14  <Digitalfox> canatella: It seems so..
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09:54:46  <l_Blue_l> Is it just me or is the tt-forums website down atm?
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10:02:29  <l_Blue_l> yay tt-forums is working for me now.
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11:54:08  <alekcxjo> saluton / hello
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11:55:27  <keyweed> ave / hallo / bonjour / hello / guten tag
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12:40:51  <Roujin> g'day
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13:07:47  <alekcxjo> help!
13:07:51  <alekcxjo> i'v problem to compile
13:07:55  <alekcxjo> i receive: configure: error: libpng depends on zlib, which couldn't be found / was disabled
13:08:08  <alekcxjo> but zlib IS installed...
13:08:13  <Roujin> what os?
13:08:24  <alekcxjo> linux ubuntu 7.10
13:08:41  <keyweed> you need a diff zlib package. i had the same problem
13:09:06  <keyweed> now i can only remember wich...
13:09:20  <alekcxjo> and what should i make?
13:09:50  <keyweed> you need to apt(itude) one of these: zlib-bin zlib1g zlib1g-dev zlibc
13:09:53  <keyweed> or just all of them
13:10:00  <alekcxjo> ok thanks :)
13:10:03  <Rubidium> zlib1g-dev should be enough
13:10:07  <Rubidium> and libpng-dev
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13:10:32  <roboman> gnight
13:12:37  <alekcxjo> it works!
13:12:49  <alekcxjo> :D
13:13:36  <Sacro> guten morgen
13:13:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r11805 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#1620]: VEHICLE_TRIGGER_EMPTY was triggered continuously while train waiting in station.
13:14:14  <Sacro> svn command not found
13:14:15  <Sacro> :(
13:14:32  <alekcxjo> apt-get install svn ^^
13:15:13  <alekcxjo> (without ^^)
13:15:14  <SpComb> subversion
13:15:23  <Sacro> aot-get command not found
13:15:25  <Sacro> err
13:15:29  <Sacro> apt-get command not found
13:15:40  * SpComb banishes the ark linux troll
13:15:50  * Sacro ponders who he is referring to
13:16:05  <Sacro> SpComb: no ark linux trolls here afaik
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13:16:21  <SpComb> you know exactly who I was referring to
13:16:29  <SpComb> I've trolled about this before
13:16:32  <Sacro> probably me, but you got the wrong distro
13:16:49  <SpComb> I got exactly the distro I inteded to
13:16:55  <Sacro> yeah...
13:17:06  * Sacro huggles *ARCH* linux
13:17:40  * Sacro ignores SpComb
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13:22:59  <alekcxjo> when i launch ./openttd in /bin
13:23:16  <alekcxjo> it's launched like if i'd make ./openttd -D
13:23:25  <alekcxjo> as a dedicaced server...
13:24:31  <alekcxjo> when i launch ./openttd in /bin
13:24:34  <alekcxjo> it's launched like if i'd make ./openttd -D
13:25:51  <alekcxjo> as a dedicaced server...
13:25:51  <alekcxjo> ...
13:25:51  <alekcxjo> why?
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13:40:21  <SpComb> configure --dedicated?
13:43:49  <Sacro> oooh
13:43:57  <Sacro> xft antialiasing looks goooooooorgeous
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13:45:04  <Sacro> SpComb: actually, i have the same problem
13:45:23  <Sacro> installing SDL may help
13:45:45  <SpComb> and ./configure --with-sdl, if it's not on by default
13:45:51  <Sacro> it is
13:45:55  <Sacro> i'd just not installed SDL yet
13:46:09  <Sacro> i think i might try xmonad out
13:46:15  <Sacro> i quite fancy the idea of a tiling wm
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13:47:21  <Belugas> hooo my god!  a commit by a non-dev :S
13:47:28  <Sacro> Belugas: when?
13:47:28  <Belugas> ho.. wait... he's a dev !
13:47:43  * Sacro takes the whisky from Belugas
13:50:26  <Belugas> @openttd commit 11805
13:50:26  <DorpsGek> Belugas: Commit by frosch :: r11805 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2008-01-10 13:13:18 UTC)
13:50:27  <DorpsGek> Belugas: -Fix [FS#1620]: VEHICLE_TRIGGER_EMPTY was triggered continuously while train waiting in station.
13:50:30  <Belugas> that :)
13:50:36  <Belugas> no whisky at all...
13:50:41  * Belugas is more on rhum
13:50:46  <Belugas> and not in the morning ;)
13:50:47  <Sacro> rum?
13:51:04  <Belugas> the pirate drink ?
13:51:16  <Belugas> rhum?
13:51:18  <Belugas> rome?
13:51:23  <Belugas> rum?
13:51:26  <Belugas> rhume?
13:52:25  <frosch123> rum.
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13:55:22  <Sacro> !seen smatz
13:55:29  <Sacro> @seen smatz
13:55:29  <DorpsGek> Sacro: smatz was last seen in #openttd 16 hours, 53 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <SmatZ> :-D flying car
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13:58:39  <Belugas> rum it will be.  don't fight 2 against 1
13:59:17  <Sacro> i need a nice linux IDE for C++
14:00:49  <glx> eclipse?
14:01:04  <Sacro> glx: is it that good? it always bugs me
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14:01:18  <glx> dunno, never used
14:01:54  <Sacro> i'm just installing monodevelop now, but that's more for uni
14:11:10  <Roujin> for anyone who likes my patches, i uploaded i pack with all of them in the forums :P well gotta go now, already late for some lesson at uni xD
14:11:17  <Roujin> bye
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14:33:40  <dihedral> has anybody looked at the issue with setting company pass from mac and win?
14:33:45  <dihedral> rephrase
14:33:55  <dihedral> has anybody had a chance to have a look at
14:33:59  <dihedral> ^^
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14:38:40  <Draakon> hello
14:45:16  <Sacro> dihedral: first sentance is better
14:45:24  <dihedral> ok
14:45:31  <dihedral> then use that one ^^
14:45:37  <Sacro> because you don't care whether someone had the chance to look at it
14:45:42  <Sacro> but whether someone actually did
14:45:46  <dihedral> no
14:45:49  <dihedral> not quite true
14:46:17  <dihedral> because i am quite aware that there is more to live than just this game and it's code
14:46:32  <Sacro> oh i doubt that
14:46:37  <Sacro> *its
14:46:38  <dihedral> and i dont want to in any way imply that i care for the code more than for what goes around other people
14:49:01  <Sacro> pfft :p
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14:49:44  <Draakon> Hi LA
14:52:13  <dihedral> Sacro: have you actually heared of that?
14:52:19  <dihedral> the issue i mean ^^
14:53:00  <Sacro> dihedral: yes i have
14:53:04  <Sacro> but i have LE :p
14:53:05  <LA[lord]> hi
14:54:31  <Draakon> can anyone tell me what line of code and where should i change/remove to disable closure of Industries
14:54:55  <Sacro> Draakon: there is a patch in dev forum
14:55:02  <Draakon> i know
14:55:07  <Sacro> read it ;)
14:55:12  <Draakon> but options arent seperated
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14:55:24  <Draakon> and i want to disable only closure of industries
14:55:29  <Draakon> not opening too
14:55:58  <dihedral> !!
14:56:17  <dihedral> then look at the patch and edit the source after you applied it
14:57:40  <Draakon> i don't know C++
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14:58:21  <dihedral> so basically you are asking for someone to make you a patch so that you dont have to learn or do any work
14:58:49  <Draakon> no
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14:58:58  <Draakon> i am asking what and where to change
14:58:58  *** Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
14:59:17  <dihedral> which in affect is the same
14:59:26  <dihedral> :-P
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14:59:43  <dihedral> have a look at the patch and see if you can make head's and/or tails of it
15:00:55  <Draakon> will this line of code do the work?
15:02:09  <dihedral> well - give you 2 ideas ^^
15:02:27  <dihedral> as static bool CheckIndustryCloseDownProtection sais, it returnes true or false
15:02:44  <dihedral> set it to one of them compile and see what happens, if it does not work, try setting it to the other ^^
15:02:50  <Belugas> if i'm not mistaken, this code handles conditional closure of grf industries
15:02:52  * Belugas checks
15:03:07  <dihedral> hello Belugas
15:03:36  <Draakon> hmm then what about this here?
15:04:00  <Draakon> as this seems to be the code that makes no closures for industries
15:04:14  <dihedral> good
15:04:27  <dihedral> what is the code that looks like it's stopic it to open indus?
15:04:34  <dihedral> *stoping
15:05:05  <Draakon> ah'
15:05:15  <Draakon> this looks like to be it: if (i->prod_level == 4) closeit = true;
15:05:34  <Draakon> well i try
15:06:04  <glx> Draakon: don't touch this
15:06:05  <Belugas> wrong place, wromg code
15:06:19  <dihedral> give him a chance to find out for himself :-P
15:06:29  <Draakon> why not?
15:06:43  <Draakon> dihedral: your not being very helpfull here
15:06:47  <dihedral> i am
15:06:53  <dihedral> just you will only realize later on
15:06:58  <glx> because a prod_level of 4 means it's already too late
15:07:47  <dihedral> Draakon: it's more helpful if people are not given the answer, but shown how the answer can be found ^^
15:07:59  <dihedral> and if it then still does not work after a few failed tries
15:08:03  <Belugas> preventing an industry closure by code can be in many ways.
15:08:13  <Draakon> dihedral: depends from people from people
15:08:15  <Belugas> preventing production to drop below 4 is one
15:08:25  <dihedral> yes - depends how lazy people are
15:08:27  <Belugas> and the most secure one
15:09:18  <Draakon> hmm i think i try to change the patch tottaly
15:09:49  <dihedral> Draakon: big hint, dont edit the patch file itself, rather apply the patch and then edit the files
15:10:50  <Draakon> why?
15:11:22  <Draakon> because Tourtise SVN will get some errors if trying to apply it?
15:11:55  <dihedral> one just does not edit patch files unless one _really_ knows what he/she is doing
15:12:33  <Draakon> k i understand(hopefully)
15:13:01  <dihedral> ^^
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15:16:55  <Draakon> does somebody knows how long it takes for a coal mine to close if no one is servicing it?
15:18:40  <LA[lord]> it has to have extremely low production.,.
15:18:51  <LA[lord]> and that totally depends..
15:19:00  <Sacro> it like totally does ^^
15:19:14  <dihedral> open it in a scenario editor, set prod very low, then play it
15:20:33  <Draakon> ah what the heck i just use the whole patch instead
15:20:34  <Draakon> :P
15:20:54  * Draakon starts compiling
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15:25:10  * Draakon wonders what patch most people want into the trunk? i mean which is top 1 in the Whishlist
15:25:25  <Draakon> anyone knows perhaps?
15:26:12  <dihedral> all the decently coded bug fixing ones ^^
15:26:36  <dihedral> where 'decently' = according to coding guidline
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15:26:57  <Noldo> what do you mean by people?
15:27:07  <dihedral> hehe
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15:27:58  <Draakon> Noldo: you don't know English word, people?
15:29:22  <Draakon> dihedral: most people want feature patches
15:29:43  <dihedral> that is because the poeple you consider as 'most' are noobish players
15:30:01  <dihedral> ok - perhaps drop the word 'noobish'
15:30:10  <Draakon> :S why do i get this error?
15:30:22  <LA[lord]> those *feature* patches just consist of big amount of bugs usually :D
15:30:55  <dihedral> hehe
15:30:57  <LA[lord]> or ideas which change gameplay dramatically
15:31:05  <LA[lord]> in the suggestion forums...
15:31:07  <dihedral> r11786_added_bugs_feature.diff
15:31:17  <LA[lord]> ?
15:31:25  <LA[lord]> bugs feature???
15:31:32  <dihedral> you can switch the bugs on in the 'patches' controll windows ^^
15:31:44  <LA[lord]> hehe
15:32:01  <LA[lord]> a server option -> desync player 4
15:32:17  <dihedral> LOL
15:32:18  <Draakon> ah nvm about my problem, i need to download newer patch
15:32:32  <LA[lord]> that would be mean.. wouldn't it :D
15:32:34  <dihedral> Draakon: was about to ask what rev the patch was for
15:32:53  <dihedral> LA i think i might do that - would only be a server side thing
15:33:05  <dihedral> and then all clients named 'Player' get 'desynced' ^^
15:33:06  <dihedral> hehehe
15:33:46  <Draakon> another server option: destroy certain company creations, everything
15:33:58  <LA[lord]> dih is meanie
15:34:20  <dihedral> yes - Draakon, that would be reset_company x
15:34:31  <Draakon> i meant the diffrent way
15:34:39  <Draakon> keep the company and money
15:34:45  <dihedral> !
15:34:45  <Draakon> but not what he owns
15:35:20  <LA[lord]> and dih.. I always forget to set my name before connecting, so I join as player and then change name...
15:35:37  <LA[lord]> so your feature would rule me out :D'
15:36:02  <Draakon> that desync one will be good
15:36:25  <Draakon> as if you want to kick a certan player but not really say for them that they have been kicked
15:36:36  <LA[lord]> mhmh
15:37:13  <LA[lord]> but then they try to reconnect... and desync again.. and again and finally submit a bug report :D
15:37:22  <dihedral> lol
15:37:48  <Draakon> that one is more efficent
15:37:50  <Draakon> IMO
15:43:08  <glx> <Draakon> :S why do i get this error? <-- because you applied the patch multiple times
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15:44:04  <dihedral> LOL
15:51:52  <Draakon> oh
15:51:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11806 /trunk/src/players.cpp: -Fix (r11793) [FS#1638]: sign inversion when updating income and expenses
15:52:26  <Draakon> i need to get new revision then
15:52:31  <Draakon> of source
15:53:21  <glx> Draakon: you need to remove command_queue.cpp before patching (as it is created by the patch)
15:53:46  <Draakon> i update the revision itself as it need to be updated
15:54:58  * glx slaps Noldo for r11806
15:55:08  <Noldo> sorry
15:55:38  <Draakon> ?
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15:58:47  <Draakon> what happens if for exaple i apply a patch that is meant for r11781 to a r11765?
15:58:57  <Draakon> example*
15:59:40  <glx> it may or may not work
15:59:40  <egladil> it might or might not work
15:59:41  <pm|work> @draakon: you may be fine or you may introduce any behaviour up to crashing your computer with the compiled executable.
15:59:58  <Draakon> k
16:02:26  <Draakon> :S why do i get invalid chunk size error if i have r11766 but the scenario was created with r11556 and maps that have been created with older revision not?
16:03:22  <glx> using any patches?
16:04:00  <dihedral> he is trying to play the osqc scenario in his just compiled no_indu_closedown binary
16:04:11  <Draakon> no
16:04:18  <Draakon> not that one
16:04:24  <Noldo> glx: I take my sorry back(or part of it) "+p->cur_economy.expenses += cost.GetCost();" says the diff I applied to FS
16:04:26  <Draakon> a personal one that i made
16:04:37  <dihedral> your ecs one?
16:04:41  <dihedral> you found it again?
16:04:50  <Draakon> you mean the example on?
16:04:55  <dihedral> yes
16:05:00  <Draakon> not that one either
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16:06:07  <glx> Noldo: and it should be "+p->cur_economy.expenses -= cost.GetCost();" as it was with the old code
16:06:10  <Draakon> but you did reminder one thing to me
16:07:03  <Draakon> actually 2 things
16:09:54  <Draakon> thanks for remindering it, dihedral
16:12:03  <dihedral> :-P
16:13:06  <Draakon> i know that devs use compiling farm, but is it home made?
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16:20:31  <dihedral> i believe TrueBrain developed it
16:22:57  <Draakon> k just asking
16:23:28  <dihedral> and if i am not mistaken, it is 'just' there for the nightlies
16:24:11  <Draakon> google tour bus made a crash into tree too.
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16:28:52  <Draakon> :S
16:29:33  <Draakon> i found a bug in 11798 concerning new grf industries being opened, non patched game
16:30:12  <dihedral> explain
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16:31:05  <Draakon> a scenario was made with only one town and no industries
16:31:10  <Draakon> using ECS Vectors
16:31:20  <Draakon> a Industry was made
16:31:28  <Draakon> and half news paper then seen
16:31:41  <Draakon> and Game decided to make a crash then
16:31:57  <glx> what kind of crash?
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16:33:20  <Draakon> game displays a error once above is occured
16:33:39  <glx> something like assertion failed?
16:33:57  <Draakon> yes
16:34:02  <Draakon> i see if i can recreate
16:34:08  <glx> retry in 11804 :)
16:34:12  <dihedral> ^^
16:34:23  <Draakon> later
16:35:04  <Draakon> but it isnt avabile to download
16:35:17  <dihedral> now - it's available via svn
16:35:22  <dihedral> *no
16:35:24  <glx> you can compile it yourself
16:35:38  <Draakon> wtf? ai is wierd now too
16:35:49  <Draakon> i have 2 ai players
16:35:55  <Draakon> one green other blue
16:36:04  <glx> it always has been
16:36:06  <Draakon> green had a statoion and a depot in a town
16:36:09  <SmatZ> it has never been non-weird
16:36:28  <Draakon> then blue was able to overwrite his station over green
16:36:35  <Draakon> like he demolished it
16:36:51  <SmatZ> Draakon: did he buy the green player?
16:37:04  <Draakon> no
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16:40:33  <Draakon> as i have never seen nothing like this before
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16:44:27  <Noldo> glx: ok, guilty of not able to read a diff too
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17:26:46  <Wolf01> hello
17:27:59  <Draakon> argh
17:28:20  <Draakon> a industry in ECS Vectors is causing assertion failed errors
17:31:01  <Belugas> would you be kind enough to update your repo to HEAD revision, as it has been suggeted to you Draakon?  It has been fixed
17:31:15  <Draakon> cant currently
17:33:18  <Belugas> well... can you recompile?  i can give you the fix
17:33:42  <Wolf01> or wait 1:26 hours...
17:34:06  <Belugas>
17:34:08  <Belugas> there
17:34:09  <Draakon> cant
17:34:14  <Draakon> currently
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17:34:37  <Belugas> too bad for you, sorry for you. nothing to do aobut it
17:34:58  <Draakon> i know
17:36:07  <Wolf01> any new feature being worked to be included in trunk 'soon'?
17:36:35  <Belugas> what?? and spoil the fun???  naaaa.... ;)
17:36:44  <Draakon> please tell us
17:36:46  <Wolf01> :)
17:36:46  <Draakon> :P
17:37:19  <Belugas> And Silence Falls on the Channel
17:37:54  <Roujin> still working on the one you told me? :P
17:38:09  <Roujin> or dropped that for something else? :P
17:38:21  <Draakon> after which follows of opening new shop at a random map in a town called: stanwell
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17:38:30  <Draakon> a nuclear shop
17:38:32  <Draakon> :D
17:39:00  <Belugas> Roujin, not recently, doing bug fixes and real life ;)
17:39:12  <Roujin> i see ;)
17:39:36  <Roujin> yeah real life does have some nasty bugs...
17:39:46  <Roujin> glad to hear you're fixing them xD
17:39:50  <Draakon> so a map with seed no. 546853584 with no. of towns set to low and no. of indus to medium with no grfs is no more usable
17:40:18  <Draakon> real life has bugs? since when?
17:41:27  <Roujin> you don't agree? oO
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17:41:35  <Roujin> it's freakin' buggy :P
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17:42:23  <Belugas> well... when you're programming in a paied job, yeah, real life has bugs :D
17:42:46  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
17:42:47  <Roujin> e.g. the whole women thing... whoever coded them must have had one beer too much ;)
17:44:39  <Octave> Hello there.
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17:48:39  <Roujin> sooo.. is flyspray still the right place to go when you have a patch you'd like to see included in trunk?
17:49:32  <Roujin> there's this mailbox aswell.. i dunno :/
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17:58:38  <Desolator> hi guys
17:59:02  *** Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
17:59:35  <Belugas> Roujin, FlySpray in deed, the mail box seems a bit dead... TrueBrain does not manage it anymore, nor can i
18:00:35  <Desolator> Does anyone know what form is recomended in C++: `int main()' or `int main(void)'? What I know is that in C `int main()' has unknown parameters (although that's obsolete in C99), while `int main(void)' takes no parameters, but what is the form recommended by the C++ standard?
18:01:19  *** peterbrett [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:02:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r11807 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Make Action5 handler more upwards- and TTDP-compatible by allowing specifiing more sprites than needed.
18:02:44  <glx> Desolator: int main(int argc, char *argv[])
18:03:06  <Desolator> no, if I don't need the arguments
18:03:11  <glx> anyway void is not needed for c++
18:03:36  <Desolator> (MSVC++ stars to yell if it finds unused variables...even arguments in main!)
18:03:57  <ln-> Desolator: and Stroustrup himself thinks function(void) is ugly.
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18:06:05  <pavel1269> hi
18:06:42  *** dih [] has joined #openttd
18:07:49  <Desolator> ok, now what extensino would you recommend for headers? I currently use .hpp, but I don't see it too common
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18:33:40  <DaleStan> ln-: But what does he say about "function()"? I got the impression that "function(void)" was ugly because the correct form was "function()".
18:34:12  <ln-> huh?
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18:35:06  <DaleStan> Re Stroustrup. (Sorry, failed to note timestamps)
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18:41:54  <ln-> DaleStan: I know what you were talking about, but I don't understand what do you mean by "But what does he say about "function()"?"
18:42:31  <ln-> since you already said function() is the correct form, as it is.
18:43:14  <ln-> so made me wonder if you say there is some semantical difference between function() and function(void).
18:45:06  <Desolator> [20:07] <Desolator> ok, now what extension would you recommend for headers? I currently use .hpp, but I don't see it too common
18:45:11  <DaleStan> To my knowledge, there's no semantic difference. And never mind; I didn't read enough scrollback and thought you were replying to a later line.
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18:46:25  <DaleStan> I always use .h for everything; some people use .hpp for C++ and .h for C. I chose .h mostly because it means I don't have to type as much when writing #includes.
18:47:01  <blathijs> DaleStan: So, you've also named files "a.h", "b.h", etc? :-p
18:47:08  <SmatZ> blathijs: exactly :-D
18:47:24  <SmatZ> or ".h" for really often needed include
18:49:45  <DaleStan> Not quite that bad, but close. I've done quite a few "????.h" And that's not a header file, SmatZ. If the first character is a dot, it does not start the extension, Window's impressions to the contrary notwithstanding.
18:53:59  <blathijs> I think you could also just say #include "a" though
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18:55:54  <glx> yes you can #include anything as you can compile anything
18:56:18  <glx> extensions don't matter for preprocessor and compiler
18:56:37  <SmatZ> maybe you could write a macro
18:56:48  <SmatZ> to have "#include" shorter
18:57:31  <ln-> i don't think that's possible.
18:57:36  <ln-> without writing your own pre-processor.
18:57:52  <ln-> although.. i haven't tried
18:57:53  <glx> pre-preprocessor ;)
18:59:00  <ln-> but, no, it doesn't seem to be possible.
18:59:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11808 /trunk/config.lib:
18:59:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: remember --with-ccache in config.cache
18:59:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: shuffle params a bit, sort params in save_params_array in the same order as the table above
19:00:34  <SmatZ> ln-: all #include, #if, #define ... are preprocessor directives, it should be possible to define that macro
19:00:53  <SmatZ> preprocessor does macro expansion, too
19:01:09  <ln-> SmatZ: ok, show me an example.
19:01:13  <SmatZ> but ... depends how preprocessor and compiler are divided in gcc
19:01:32  <Octave> Excuse me... I have a question. Is there a place on the web, where you can organise multiplayer games with other people? I want to have a multiplayer game using a few newgrfs, but nobody is joining my server. I'm just bored with the original train set and stations...
19:02:32  <Belugas> Octave, yu can try the tt-forums, or just advertize it in here :)
19:02:37  <pavel1269> :)
19:03:36  <SmatZ> ln-: ok, it doesn't work
19:03:47  <SmatZ> macro cannot insert #
19:04:20  <Wolf01> r11808  smatz  2008-01-10 19:59:16 +0100 (Thu, 10 Jan 2008) eheh just in time :P
19:05:01  * Desolator wonders why `#pragma once' isn't in the C++ standard
19:05:22  <SmatZ> Wolf01: :-x
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19:06:05  <ln-> Desolator: is there any #pragma in the standard? except for the #pragma directive itself.
19:06:07  <Desolator> SmatZ: you're an ottd dev? I don't think I've seen you before, what's your username on the forums?
19:07:17  <Octave> Well... If anybody feels like a game, the server is called !!UKRS+addon+newstats!!...
19:08:09  <SmatZ> Desolator: my nick on forums is a bit strange :-x
19:09:40  * Sacro returns
19:09:55  <pavel1269> Octave: newstats? isnt that a patch?
19:10:57  <Wolf01> oh noes, batman returned
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19:11:33  <Desolator> SmatZ: Hmm, since when you're a dev?
19:12:51  <Belugas> quite a few revs, already :)
19:12:57  <pavel1269> )
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19:14:19  <Desolator> well, since it's the first time I see you commiting code (and I've looked at the loga quite often), I'll say Congratulations!
19:14:25  <Octave> Uhh, what I meant by that is the 'New Stations V.0.42'... I started a new server to avoid confusion, '!!UKRS+addon+newstV0.42!!'
19:14:54  <pavel1269> :)
19:16:11  <SmatZ> Desolator: maybe two months :)
19:16:16  <SmatZ> Desolator: thanks :-)
19:16:39  <pavel1269> no damages, advanced loading, 20+ station wide, year under 1975 and you could met me sometimes :)
19:17:58  <SmatZ> Desolator: my first manual commit was r11456 :)
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19:22:42  <Octave> Are those things patches? I'm quite new to openttd, multiplayer that is, I have been playing TT for about 12 years now though, I had a demo of it when it first came out that you could only have railways on!
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19:25:01  <Sacro> hmm
19:25:25  <Belugas> Been a while already :)
19:25:34  <Desolator> meh
19:25:36  <Belugas> err....
19:25:38  <Belugas> [14:23] <SmatZ> Desolator: my first manual commit was r11456 :)
19:25:49  *** peter__ [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
19:25:50  <Belugas> stucked irc line on not current :S
19:26:17  <SmatZ> Octave you may discuss at
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19:26:27  <Draakon> hello
19:26:33  <SmatZ> hello Draakon
19:26:47  <pavel1269> hi
19:27:19  <Desolator> hi
19:28:34  <orudge> Any sound engineers here? :P
19:28:40  <Desolator> great, I got a translation of "Everything about C and C++" in Romanian, and guess what? void main(void) !..I hope it's the only big mistake in it
19:29:19  *** LA[lord] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:29:20  <orudge> void main(void) is not necessarily incorrect
19:29:24  <Desolator> (though it was written in 1997 and I think that time it was allowed but not recommended at all in C89)
19:29:27  *** LA[lord]_ is now known as LA[lord]
19:29:47  <Sacro> orudge: excessive though
19:29:50  <Desolator> well from C99 onwards it's illegal (on most compiler works, that's another thing)
19:31:31  <Desolator> orudge: why don't we use an archive and store each file in a simple format? maybe some ogg files coupled in a tar and named something like "sounds.tar"
19:31:37  <Desolator> makes little sense to me
19:31:53  <orudge> Desolator: well
19:31:59  <orudge> is just to put things in the game as they are now
19:32:07  <orudge> the plan is to redesign the sound format, indeed
19:32:19  <pv2b> doesnt the openttd code already support looking in .tar files?
19:32:25  <Desolator> it does
19:32:30  <pv2b> i seem to distinctly remember that from mucking about in that part of the code
19:32:32  <orudge> for sounds?
19:32:33  <orudge> hmm
19:32:41  <Desolator> not for sounds, but it can handle tars
19:32:44  <orudge> ah
19:32:46  <pv2b> not sure if it can see individual resource files
19:32:47  <Desolator> see the 32bpp gfx format
19:33:09  <orudge> well
19:33:14  <orudge> the sound engine needs a redesign anyway
19:33:22  <orudge> for both sound and music
19:33:29  <Desolator> I remeber a patch you made, though it's EXTREMELY old
19:33:30  <orudge> something I did once already for music, but that got out of date and wasn't tht nice
19:33:32  <orudge> *that
19:33:34  <Draakon> yup iy needs
19:33:40  <Desolator> how did you handle mp3s?
19:33:41  <orudge> and something I've started again, but not in any serious form
19:33:41  <Draakon> it*
19:33:45  <orudge> I used a library for MP3s
19:33:50  <orudge> can't remember what off the top of my head
19:34:10  <pv2b> why mp3 and not some kind of vorbis?
19:34:12  <orudge> libmad
19:34:14  <Desolator> because we might have problems with thomson unless we don't make much profit
19:34:16  <orudge> Vorbis was supported, too
19:34:22  <orudge> these were for music, not sound effects
19:34:29  <Draakon> does that sound_effects contain games sound effects?
19:34:31  <Desolator> pv2b: vorbis as well, but most people use windows and mp3 music
19:34:40  <orudge> Draakon: those are the current game sound effects
19:34:48  <Draakon> k
19:34:51  <pv2b> Desolator: then they can convert it into vorbis if they want to use it with the game :-)
19:35:05  <orudge> pv2b: there should be no reason we can't support MP3  too
19:35:08  <orudge> libmad works fine enough
19:35:15  <pv2b> orudge: except for patent licencing bullshit.
19:35:18  <orudge> and I don't think licencing will be too much of an issue (if at all?) for us
19:35:21  <orudge> well
19:35:30  <orudge> other open source projects seem to manage without paying too much attention to it? ;)
19:35:32  <pv2b> no reason to open that can of worms at all
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19:35:46  <pv2b> openttd is a game, not a universal media player that needs to support all manner of obscure formats
19:35:54  <Desolator> orudge: I'd use lame instead, just my preference
19:35:55  <orudge> mp3 is hardly an obscure format though
19:36:01  <pv2b> but that's just my opinion
19:36:08  <pv2b> i'm not going to discuss it since i'm not coding it
19:36:16  <orudge> Desolator: does lame have some form of decoding library that is easy to use?
19:36:25  <orudge> I have code here that works for vorbis and mp3
19:36:31  <orudge> that could be reused in a future redesign quite easily
19:36:34  <Desolator> pv2b: mp3 is the most popular format AFAIK, not an obscure format
19:36:36  <orudge> anyway
19:36:40  <orudge> I have various ideas for a new sound engine
19:36:41  <Prof_Frink> make openttd speak DCOP so the Jazz Jukebox can control Amarok
19:36:45  <orudge> just don't have te time to implement it for now
19:37:04  <pv2b> Desolator: if you support mp3, people will want you to support AAC and WMV too :-)
19:37:04  <Desolator> orudge: not sure, but it's used by lots of good apps to decode & encode mp3 (audacity for example)
19:37:22  <Desolator> pv2b: wmv is a video format
19:37:26  <pv2b> wma i mean
19:37:28  <Prof_Frink> pv2b: Save yourself the trouble. Support phonon.
19:37:48  <Draakon> :S
19:37:49  <pv2b> Prof_Frink: great. yet another library dependency
19:37:52  <SmatZ> lol @ 58.wav
19:38:02  <Draakon> for 33.wav winap says that its invalid file type
19:38:07  <pv2b> Prof_Frink: which in turn depends on a lot of libraries
19:38:09  <orudge> hmm
19:38:14  * orudge thinks 58.wav shouldn't have been there
19:38:23  <Desolator> pv2b: winamp sucks anyway :P
19:38:28  <Draakon> lol
19:38:29  <Prof_Frink> Yes... but I have them installed already :)
19:38:31  <pv2b> Prof_Frink: i clearly want to install a part of kde and qt to be able to run openttd on my mac os x machine.
19:38:45  <Prof_Frink> pv2b: s/kde and /
19:38:52  <pv2b> phonon is a part of kde.
19:39:08  <Prof_Frink> It'll be included in Qt4.4
19:39:21  <Desolator> Prof_Frink: OTTD runs on platforms that Qt can only dream of
19:39:36  <Desolator> not to say about kde stuff
19:39:41  <orudge> well
19:39:46  <orudge> the ability to support such things optionally should not be impossible
19:39:47  <Prof_Frink> Desolator: It was a joke really
19:39:54  <pv2b> Prof_Frink: does phonon work on amiga or morphos? ;-)
19:39:57  <orudge> the music driver framework I created previously could cope happily with such things
19:40:09  <Prof_Frink> pv2b: See above.
19:40:11  <orudge> but anyway, as a default sort of thing, mp3 and vorbis is fine
19:40:22  <pv2b> orudge: yay, so now i can't play some nice music package somebody has made, because he uses some weird optional library
19:40:34  <Desolator> orudge: how 'bout flac and wav?
19:40:44  <orudge> wav was supported
19:40:49  <Desolator> flac is pretty neat, wav is common on windows
19:40:53  <pv2b> i want aac and apple lossless -- i store a lot of my music in that
19:41:02  <orudge> FLAC is possible, but I hadn't done previously
19:41:10  <orudge> basically
19:41:15  <orudge> we don't want to support every format under the sun
19:41:21  <pavel1269> :D
19:41:27  <pavel1269> why not ^^
19:41:36  <orudge> but MP3, Vorbis and raw WAV were all implemented in my previous patch
19:41:40  <orudge> and should do us fine enough
19:41:44  <orudge> FLAC perhaps too, but less important
19:41:49  <Desolator> flac could be used for the sound effects, as they're kinda small and this way you can edit them directly without losing any sound
19:42:05  <pv2b> Desolator: you know what else is a nice lossless format for small sound effects? wav. :-)
19:42:15  <Desolator> wav is uncompressed
19:42:20  <Desolator> flac has pretty good compression
19:42:21  <pv2b> true.
19:42:58  <Desolator> and why not save some space? wav is tied to m$, flac is free software and runs almost everywhere
19:43:08  <pv2b> oh, i know, you could support windows media player libraries on windows, quicktime on mac, and phonon on linux ;-)
19:43:43  <orudge> WAV isn't really tied to Microsoft, OK, it was designed by them (I think) but it's more or less universal
19:43:44  <pavel1269> and why not make list of music and support them all? :)
19:43:46  <orudge> FLAC is nice
19:43:46  <pv2b> for other operating systems you put up an AJAX server on which is sent the compressed sound as XML HTTP requests and returns it as a http mp3 stream
19:43:47  <Desolator> and beos? and morphos? and how bout gnulinux distro without any kde stuff?
19:43:52  <orudge> but that means another library for everyone to have to have
19:44:08  <pv2b> that'll solve any library dependencies
19:44:41  <Desolator> pv2b: I don't want to have ottd require internet access for sound
19:44:47  <pv2b> Desolator: that was a joke :-)
19:45:02  <Desolator> it's possible though...
19:45:07  <pv2b> it's a fucking stupid idea
19:45:39  <Desolator> hey, watch your language, please
19:46:01  <Prof_Frink> Plugins to talk to external media players would be cool.
19:46:12  <orudge> well
19:46:20  <orudge> there should be no reason why those could not be dropped in
19:46:28  <orudge> but as a default, OpenTTD would support wav.
19:46:31  <orudge> and midi
19:46:33  <orudge> via existing drivers
19:46:33  <Prof_Frink> orudge can write one for winamp.
19:46:36  <pv2b> orudge: anyway, one reason why mp3 support (or vorbis support) should be dropped -- less library dependencies
19:46:38  <Desolator> well, got to go to dinner, see ya later folks
19:46:42  <orudge> pv2b: I was just saying...
19:46:46  <orudge> default: wav and midi
19:46:53  <orudge> if the appropriate libraries are available: mp3 and vorbis
19:46:56  <pv2b> imagine the user support issues
19:47:01  <orudge> they're not compulsory
19:47:03  <orudge> pv2b: static linking?
19:47:08  <Prof_Frink> Have them as reccommends: rather than depends:
19:47:09  <Desolator> yea
19:47:09  <orudge> it's not generally much of an issue
19:47:14  <pv2b> "my music won't play" .... "uh.... do you have the libraries installed" "the what?"
19:47:29  <pavel1269> hehe
19:47:29  <Prof_Frink> pv2b: For Windows, use DirectShow
19:47:29  <orudge> certainly, I had no problem with my patch a few years ago, I could install the libraries on most platforms I tested without issues
19:47:34  <orudge> (Windows, Linux, OS/2, OS X)
19:47:40  <orudge> but if the libraries aren't there
19:47:45  <orudge> it'll just fall back to wav and midi
19:47:51  <orudge> I see no reason why there should be a big issue about it
19:47:53  <Wolf01> there is somebody who has a link for the web terrain generator?
19:48:04  <pv2b> how do you fall back to wav if no wav is available? but anyway, never mind, it's not important.
19:48:37  <orudge> why would wav not be avaiable?
19:48:40  <orudge> *available
19:48:43  <orudge> the format is very simple
19:48:45  <orudge> it's built into the game
19:48:48  <orudge> you don't need a library to read it!
19:49:02  <pv2b> no, im ean
19:49:10  <pv2b> if no wav data file is available, ow do you fall back to it?
19:49:13  <orudge> well
19:49:16  <orudge> obviously, you don't
19:49:21  <orudge> but in terms of music
19:49:28  <orudge> people could play decompressed wavs if they wanted ;)
19:49:34  <orudge> or we could just have all the sound effects in wav anyway
19:49:37  <orudge> whatever
19:49:40  <orudge> basically, for all intents and purposes
19:49:46  <Draakon> should toyland sounds be replaced too?
19:49:47  <orudge> the only people compiling it themselves are going to be Linux users
19:49:52  <orudge> or people who know what they're doing
19:49:57  <orudge> the rest will get a precompiled binary
19:50:01  <Draakon> i am a windows user, i can compile too
19:50:02  <orudge> which will have libmad and libvorbis built in
19:50:11  <orudge> Draakon: yes, but you should hopefully know what you're doing in that case ;)
19:50:26  <orudge> anyway, we manage with libpng, iconv and whatever other things. libmad and libvorbis are very easy to compile and install
19:50:30  <orudge> it's a three-step process, as with any other library
19:50:36  <orudge> there really should be no big deal about it
19:50:41  <pavel1269> :-/
19:50:45  <pv2b> three times number of external dependencies steps :-)
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19:51:01  <orudge> but again, the game doesn't *require* them to compile
19:51:03  <orudge> it'll be less useful, sure
19:51:06  <orudge> but it'll work without them
19:51:14  <pv2b> don't forget fun library version incompatibility issues
19:51:16  <orudge> you just won't get any sfx/music, if we choose to bundle the sfx/music in that format
19:51:40  <orudge> pv2b: generally, not too much of an issue, unless you're using precompiled binaries
19:51:46  <orudge> and they're dynamically linked
19:52:03  <orudge> the API hasn't changed in the libraries as far as I'm aware, so source code ought to compile with whatever version you have
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19:52:26  <reto_> hi
19:52:39  <reto_> I'm looking for a way to ruin the competition :)
19:52:43  <reto_> any ideas?
19:52:47  <Draakon> no
19:52:50  <Draakon> its illegal
19:52:58  <pavel1269> competition?
19:53:08  <Draakon> no
19:53:09  <pv2b> reto_: buy them out
19:53:10  <Draakon> runing it
19:53:18  <Draakon> ruining*
19:53:33  <reto_> pv2b: nah, then you have to get rid of all the stupid tracks :)
19:53:46  <reto_> I mean, they perform bad, but they still make some money :)
19:53:55  <pv2b> reto_: buy them out and fix their crap
19:54:01  <Draakon> oh
19:54:03  <Draakon> sry
19:54:04  <reto_> nah, that was two times funny
19:54:08  <Draakon> i misread again
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19:54:17  * Draakon is stupid????
19:54:20  <Draakon> :P
19:54:22  <reto_> :)
19:54:39  <Draakon> are you talking about single player?
19:54:42  <pv2b> reto_: you wanted a way to ruin the competition
19:54:47  <reto_> yes sure Draakon
19:55:07  <pv2b> other than that there are a few AI bugs that could be used to confuse the competition
19:55:08  <reto_> pv2b: I wanna let them bleed :)
19:55:11  <reto_> like?
19:55:14  <Draakon> cheat, swicht players and destroy their work
19:55:28  <pv2b> i dunno, i havent played the new ai
19:55:29  <reto_> I mean, they don't sell nonprofiting routes
19:55:33  <reto_> but this is not enough..
19:55:48  <reto_> or routes whichs industry have been closed
19:57:29  <reto_> hmmm
19:57:37  <Draakon> how can i apply a patch if i havent downloaded source with tourturise SVN?
19:57:50  <reto_> how did you downloadthe source then?
19:57:55  <pv2b> Draakon: you need source code to apply a patch.
19:58:12  <Draakon> i downloaded the source code from here:
19:58:25  <reto_> patch -p0 < patch
19:58:31  <Draakon> i use windows
19:58:33  <reto_> :) but I dont know how to do that on windows
19:58:46  <reto_> you could get cygwin or somethig simmilar
19:59:03  <Draakon> and torturise svn does not have a option called Apply Patch
19:59:19  <pavel1269> cyqwin is cool for appling patches :(
19:59:24  <pavel1269> *cygwin
19:59:30  <pavel1269> *:)
19:59:30  <reto_> why ':(' then?
19:59:32  <reto_> ah
19:59:41  <pavel1269> i type rally bad
20:00:05  <reto_> tpyo :)
20:00:11  <Wolf01> gah... webtt works in truebrain's pc, i wanted to show it to a friend :|
20:00:18  <Draakon> nvm
20:00:21  <Draakon> i got it work
20:01:44  *** LA[lord] [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
20:04:33  <Belugas> [15:04] <Draakon> and torturise svn does not have a option called Apply Patch <--- I beg you pardon???
20:05:11  <Wolf01> ahah! now i know your local time :D
20:05:12  <Draakon> please look for 2 line of text above of yours
20:05:21  <Draakon> then you see i got it work
20:05:43  <reto_> Wolf01??
20:06:21  <Wolf01> 6 hours and 5 minutes
20:06:50  <reto_> lol ..
20:07:38  <Belugas> heheh
20:08:00  <Wolf01> notice it: the 5 minutes are his personal time span :D
20:08:51  <Belugas> sorry, Draakon, i just jumped on a sentence expressed with so much convinction that it triggered the post :)
20:09:00  <Draakon> np
20:09:11  <Draakon> i am compiling the source now
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20:12:19  <Draakon> there are so many patches that i like to be updated
20:13:20  <reto_> hmm.. I asking myself if openttd would have an easier life with adifferent scm
20:13:41  <reto_> especially with a distributed one
20:13:46  <Draakon> scm?
20:13:51  <Draakon> what that means?
20:13:53  <reto_> like mecurial
20:14:00  <reto_> source code management
20:14:25  <Draakon> why should it need new one?
20:14:47  <reto_> well, it apperas to me that openttd has a hard time integrating all these patches
20:14:50  <reto_> for different reasons
20:15:20  <Belugas> there is no problem at all in the integration.
20:15:22  <Draakon> 1. Patch developers don't follow coding style
20:15:32  <Draakon> 2. Devs don't have almost no time
20:15:33  <reto_> and running more than one branch I think turned out to be a bad idea in case of the chrisin
20:15:35  *** HerzogDeXtE1 [] has joined #openttd
20:15:42  <Sacro> !seen Bjarni
20:15:58  <Draakon> 3. Most of time patch developers stop supporting their work if it gets to trunk
20:16:01  <reto_> Belugas: don't you think? dont get me wrong, I dont say that the developers are doing something wrong
20:16:06  <reto_> yeah
20:16:14  <Draakon> those are 3 main reasons why patches dont get into trunk
20:16:40  <reto_> Draakon: yeah, but I think it would be easier with one or two branches
20:16:41  <Draakon> ChrisIn is not dead
20:16:43  <Draakon> yet
20:16:56  <reto_> Draakon: but managing branches is a big pain in the ass with svn
20:16:58  <hylje> it's just resting
20:17:02  <Belugas> "openttd has a hard time integrating all these patches"  We do not have a hard time integrating them.  Most of them are not going in trunk for reasons that are not related to the SCM itself, believe me
20:17:10  <reto_> I know
20:17:27  <reto_> but making them more mature, and filtering out the good and bad ones could be easier with a different scm
20:17:34  <reto_> of course, just changing the scm wouldn't help much
20:17:40  <Draakon> i sayed 3 main reasons why patches dont get into trunk
20:17:57  <reto_> Belugas: before they go into turnk
20:18:05  <reto_> Belugas: without any intervention from the devs
20:18:22  <Belugas> lol
20:18:30  <Belugas> that is not going to happen :)
20:18:36  <reto_> Belugas: stop, I think you got me wrong
20:18:48  <Belugas> ok, /me stops
20:18:48  <reto_> Belugas: without intervention by the devs, they would go ito a branch
20:18:58  <reto_> not into the trunk..
20:19:31  <reto_> it would be easier to maintain a patch by a team
20:19:35  <Belugas> there was a branch called MiniIN.  it was maintained by richk67.  Quite a few patches got in.
20:19:42  <Belugas> it became unmanageable
20:19:45  <reto_> yes
20:19:49  <Belugas> and pretty much instable
20:19:50  <reto_> I think partly due to svns liitations
20:19:53  <reto_> well
20:19:55  <Belugas> nope
20:19:59  <Belugas> users
20:20:06  <hylje> shoddy patches
20:20:11  <reto_> instability of course is not something a different scm can solve :)
20:20:11  <Draakon> reto: its not about SVN
20:20:14  <Draakon> its about Patches
20:20:24  <Belugas> who, as Draakon said, sat on their a@@es once in MiniIN
20:20:38  <reto_> Draakon: I explained above why I think that a different scm would make a difference
20:20:45  <Draakon> it does not
20:20:54  <Belugas> I agree
20:20:54  <reto_> sorry
20:21:06  <reto_> :)
20:21:17  <Draakon> as i already sayed 3 main reasons why patches dont get into trunk
20:21:25  <Draakon> 1. Patch developers don't follow coding style
20:21:27  <reto_> yes, and I wrote my answer
20:21:28  <Draakon> 2. Devs don't have almost no time
20:21:29  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:21:31  <Draakon> 3. Most of time patch developers stop supporting their work if it gets to trunk
20:22:03  <Draakon> ChrishIN is not supported by devs
20:22:08  <Draakon> only one man is behind it
20:22:26  <Belugas> and there are patches VERY badly written, corrupting everything nearby
20:22:33  <Draakon> yup
20:22:40  <reto_> yes, and thats the right way to do it, I think its an aggreed fact that the load on the devs has to be reduced
20:23:00  <reto_> Belugas: yes, there has to be some kind of process, which allows others to review a patch BEFORE a dev has to look at it
20:23:04  <reto_> that would be ideal imho
20:23:08  <Draakon> no
20:23:18  <Draakon> devs only know what needs to be done exacly
20:23:19  <reto_> and of course also rate a patch by users, to get an idea if its useful orn not
20:23:25  <Belugas> usually, people on forums are dealing with that part
20:23:29  <reto_> yes
20:23:34  <Draakon> users only deal with the idea itself
20:23:59  <Draakon> not the bugs, coding styles and the rest part that has the ability that patch gets into trunk
20:24:00  <reto_> Belugas: but don't you think some kind of hierarchy/user rating, for example with a small web tool, could make some things a bit easier
20:24:13  <Draakon> IMO it does not
20:24:42  <Rubidium> reto_: you are free to use mercurial or git if you want to; you do not have to use svn to get OpenTTD's sources
20:24:50  <reto_> no sure
20:25:09  <reto_> I'm just pointing out some ideas, :)
20:25:13  <reto_> you guys are doing a great job
20:25:32  <Draakon> reto: you can make your branch in your server in anyway you want
20:25:43  <reto_> Draakon: its not about me
20:25:48  <Rubidium> reto_: user ratings will mean "I like this patch" and "I don't like this patch"; it will say nothing about the code itself.
20:25:54  <Draakon> well i just pointed out
20:26:15  <reto_> Rubidium: that would be one source of information, another one I could think of would be by 'mentor's or something like that
20:26:21  <reto_> Rubidium: which would filter out 80% of the common problmes
20:26:30  <reto_> Rubidium: mentors would be choosend by the devs..
20:26:48  <reto_> you could use people who already have written some patchs which are in the trunk
20:27:00  <hylje> there was a patch tracking project up in a few parallels
20:27:01  <Rubidium> take a look at MiniIN and ChrisIN; they both are unmaintainable because they are buggy because there is no proper review of the patches before they go into trunk.
20:27:05  <reto_> people who are familiar with c++, the openttd code and have a good knowledge about QA
20:27:21  <Draakon> reto: not a good idea
20:27:25  <Draakon> IMO
20:27:33  <hylje> but i didn't have enough time (and dedication) for that
20:27:45  <hylje> that said, i could just get back to it
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20:28:15  <reto_> debian has a similar system in place to ensure the quality of of packages..
20:28:25  <Desolator> alright folks, back
20:28:25  <reto_> it's quite difficult I think
20:28:26  <reto_> ...
20:28:32  <reto_> after all its a big software projet
20:28:33  <Rubidium> reto_: people who are familiar with C++ and the good knowledge of the OpenTTD code become the developers
20:28:52  <reto_> Rubidium: so you would rule out any benefit of a step in between?
20:29:56  <reto_> but yeah, the forum already does a lot of these things ..
20:29:56  <Rubidium> no, it's just a fact
20:30:11  <reto_> it just doesn't appear to be systematic.. somehow
20:30:19  <reto_> :)
20:30:30  <Rubidium> everyone else basically doesn't know enough about OTTD's workings to tell whether something will work or not
20:31:01  <reto_> Rubidium: well, a mentor could learn that from the feedback of the devs
20:31:22  <Rubidium> and... 'small web tool'. There is a idea about a better patch management system, but that never got implemented because nobody has time
20:31:37  <reto_> yes :) old problem.. big words, and then nothing gets done :)
20:31:46  * reto_ also just speaks :)
20:32:14  <Rubidium> yes... so many people with big words who can't actually change anything
20:32:21  <reto_> hehe
20:34:16  <reto_> after all, to quote oloh "This is a relatively large team, putting this project among the top 10% of all project teams on Ohloh.
20:34:19  <reto_> "
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20:37:54  <ln-> does someone see a certain similarity in the purpose and structure of name in "Jem'Hadar" and "Uruk-hai"?
20:39:58  <Desolator> I've got an idea
20:40:37  <Desolator> how about a project to develop an alternate system for creating grfs, with a high-level language for doing so, and a "compiler" to translate it into pure nfo
20:41:12  <Desolator> this way there will be no stuff like "why make something new if the current system is completed?"
20:41:14  <glx> Desolator: Eddi|zuHause2 started something similar
20:41:39  <Desolator> hmm, any topics on the forums on so that I could see?
20:43:18  <Desolator> anyway, the most important thing I'd need would be someone who has a good knowledge of nfo
20:43:30  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:44:50  <Desolator> as I'm planning to use a subset of Lua as scripting language, removing loops and so as I believe they're not necessary, then implement some functions that would be easier to use than nfo actions
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20:45:29  <reto_> ln-: uruk-hai?... there has been something in a game called outcast
20:46:13  <Desolator> DalteStan?
20:47:24  <Desolator> @seen DaleStan
20:47:24  <DorpsGek> Desolator: DaleStan was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 57 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <DaleStan> Not quite that bad, but close. I've done quite a few "????.h" And that's not a header file, SmatZ. If the first character is a dot, it does not start the extension, Window's impressions to the contrary notwithstanding.
20:47:46  <Desolator> well, out to #tycoon
20:47:58  * DaleStan does not yet have "DalteStan" on his list of words to highlight on.
20:48:08  <Desolator> oops...
20:48:29  <Wolf01> you should put it in, like all other mistake combinations
20:48:37  <Desolator> anyway, I know you're a very good programmer
20:49:10  <DaleStan> I don't think I've seen it before. (Well, duh. I don't highlight on it, ergo I don't see it.)
20:49:15  <Desolator> well, I bought a book that describes boh C & C++, what sings do you think a bad book would have?
20:49:32  <hylje> laa laa
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20:49:54  <Desolator> I know you recommended Advanced C++ a while ago, but I've not been able to find it
20:50:40  <DaleStan> Look at the title: Does it mention "hours" or "days"? If so, it's probably not a good book.
20:51:23  <Desolator> nope, it's a translation into Romanian, the English title should be something like "Everything about C and C++"
20:52:10  <Desolator> one bad thing I saw was void main(void), though the original book was written in 1997 and AFAIK that was legal in C89 (although not recommended)
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20:55:13  <DaleStan> I'm not familiar with translations, (since I speak English and only English) but I understand that English's larger technical vocabulary makes translations difficult, and when completed, less useful than the original English.
20:55:48  <Desolator> I know, though here we borrow about 60% of our vocabulary from English
20:57:25  <Desolator> And it's kinda hard to find English versions of books here as well
21:02:50  <Rubidium> DaleStan: any idea who I should contact about the question I asked you yesterday (the cargo missing when having ECS and newcargo)?
21:02:57  <DaleStan> Beyond having seen recommendations for Accelerated C++, and having learned from one of the Problem Solving with C++ series, I haven't had much experience with programming books; I usually read other code and/or the spec instead.
21:02:57  <DaleStan> I did learn from QBasic for Dummies and Teach Yourself VisualBasic in $TIMEPERIOD, many years ago, so a bad title doesn't make it useless.)
21:05:15  <DaleStan> Not really, Rubidium. ECSAgri[w] and MB's NewCargo, right? Any other GRFs? I'll see if I can figure it out tonight.
21:05:47  <pavel1269> gn all
21:05:52  <Desolator> gn
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21:06:11  <Rubidium> DaleStan: yes, those two
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21:10:03  <glx> but probably happen with others
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21:15:13  <orudge> ooh, version detection for MSVC, funky
21:15:16  * orudge hasn't built OpenTTD in a while
21:16:28  <Wolf01> i should update my msvc checkout, i'm too much used with tortoise and notepad :P
21:17:38  *** llugo [] has joined #openttd
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21:18:26  *** dih [~dihedral@] has joined #openttd
21:18:35  <dih> hey ho
21:18:42  <Wolf01> hi
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21:20:59  * dih is working on solving the mac password issue ^^
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21:24:28  *** lugo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:27:40  <orudge> hmm
21:27:45  <orudge> when did OpenTTD get the high score chart?
21:27:47  * orudge has missed a lot
21:28:42  <peter__> hasn't it had it forever?
21:28:45  <orudge> nope
21:28:55  <orudge> not that I know of
21:29:24  <orudge> hmm
21:29:32  <orudge> maybe it's just the green button made it more visible
21:29:36  <orudge> it seems to be here in this 0.5.x version
21:29:40  * orudge tries older versions
21:30:13  <orudge> hrmm
21:30:18  <orudge> maybe it always has
21:30:25  <orudge> I just never noticed it with the button being where it is :P
21:30:52  <peter__> noob ;)
21:30:59  <orudge> now that it's bright green
21:31:01  <orudge> it's a bit more visible
21:31:07  <peter__> and ugly?
21:31:09  <orudge> yes
21:31:14  <orudge> it's here in r2364M (aka, one of my new music test versions)
21:31:15  <peter__> why is it green, anyone?
21:31:26  * orudge listens to some random vorbis files in openttd
21:36:17  * Hendikins plays a game of "how much work issue shit can I fit in my laptop bag?"
21:36:21  * Prof_Frink listens to the closing music from the Bourne Identity on Codeine
21:36:30  <Hendikins> (Whilst still managing to fit a laptop in there)
21:36:40  <Prof_Frink> Hendikins: Start with an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepc
21:37:20  <Hendikins> I have an Acer Aspire 5520, I don't need an eepc :P
21:38:03  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:38:42  <Prof_Frink> Oh, nobody *needs* an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, they just want them.
21:39:12  <peter__> i shall steal my dad's
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21:40:39  <Hendikins> I don't want one :P
21:41:24  * Hendikins packs work-issue sunscreen, insect repellent, reflective vest...
21:41:31  <Hendikins> I get to play with level crossings today :P
21:47:56  * Hendikins pads off and tailswishes
21:54:55  <reto_> hmm.. passenger destinations: is the patch on the first page of the forum-thread, or somewhere else?
21:54:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11809 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#1643]: set expenses type when selling all vehicles in depot
21:57:31  <reto_> ah found it
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22:00:07  <ln-> is Effective C++ worth buying?
22:00:24  <reto_> wait a sec ln
22:01:36  <SmatZ> خلوت تر از این نؚود ؟؟  :-D
22:01:40  <SmatZ> weird
22:01:47  <reto_> ln-: I can really recommend
22:02:09  <reto_> ln-: hmm.. may be the book you mention is not a beginner book, then I can't help :)
22:02:42  *** Purno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:02:48  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
22:02:48  <SmatZ> !logs
22:03:24  * dih 's logs are nicer ^^
22:03:30  <SmatZ> @logs
22:03:39  <dih> i dont have my bot in here
22:03:43  <Sacro> SmatZ: any info on how the new signalling system works?
22:03:46  <SmatZ> dih sure they are, but how can I open them?
22:03:47  <SmatZ> ah
22:03:48  <dih> but you can have a look at those of openttdcoop ^^
22:03:58  <ln-> reto_: indeed I'm not looking for a beginner book.
22:04:07  <dih> i could get JJ in here, just dont know if the dev's would appreciate it
22:04:17  <dih> besides there are nice logs at
22:04:27  <Prof_Frink> JJ? Squirrels with tits?
22:04:37  * dih slaps Prof_Fink
22:04:43  <dih> JJ is my supybot
22:04:51  *** Roujin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:04:52  <dih> similar to DorpsGek
22:05:08  <dih> diff is only that i log to a database and dont have the OpenTTD plugin - but i could get it ^^
22:05:16  <reto_> ln-: then I'm sorry :)
22:05:25  *** Mark is now known as MarkAwaya
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22:05:40  <SmatZ> Sacro sure, sec
22:05:55  <Prof_Frink> Well, if it's called JJ, it should draw pictures of squirrels with tits.
22:05:58  <Prof_Frink> Right Sacro?
22:07:33  <SmatZ> tits?
22:08:17  <Sacro> tits?
22:08:19  <Sacro> mmm tits
22:10:15  <peter__> new signalling system?
22:10:31  <Sacro> peter__: indeedicles
22:11:13  <SmatZ> peter__: r11802
22:11:27  * Sacro has been hacking around with it, seems quite reasonable
22:11:36  <Sacro> and quite extensible
22:11:39  <peter__> oh, codewise
22:11:51  <peter__> i assumed the functionality was the same (apart from the long-track-bug)
22:12:39  <Sacro> i'm attempting to get signals to default to red, but it's not happening
22:14:12  *** Roujin [] has joined #openttd
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22:14:22  <ln-> is anyone a member of the mafia here?
22:14:50  <Sacro> ln-: one will be at your door soon
22:14:51  * Prof_Frink is now known as Don_Frink
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22:18:46  <Wolf01> 'night
22:18:52  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:19:59  <ln-> was that a yes or no..
22:20:59  <Prof_Frink> ln-: Go to bed. If there's a horses head there when you wake up, it was a yes.
22:21:35  <Sacro> or your missus needs replacing
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22:46:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11810 /trunk/src/signal.cpp: -Fix (r11802): reset sets when leaving prematurely
22:46:18  <SmatZ> Sacro: sorry, I had a phone
22:46:31  <Sacro> i have a phone too!
22:46:37  <SmatZ> :-)
22:46:44  <SmatZ> I do not have anymore!
22:47:22  <SmatZ> first, there are set some places where we will search - it is put into _globset
22:47:31  <SmatZ> then UpdateSignalsInBuffer is calld
22:47:31  <Sacro> ah, right
22:47:52  <SmatZ> it takes one by one place from _globset
22:48:05  <SmatZ> each representing one segment (some may represent the same segment)
22:48:19  <SmatZ> ExploreSegment goes through segment
22:48:27  <SmatZ> and places found signals into _tbuset
22:48:33  <SmatZ> and sets flags
22:48:42  <SmatZ> then, UpdateSignalsAroundSegment is called
22:48:58  <SmatZ> and updates signals in _tbuset according to flags
22:49:29  <SmatZ> when an exit signal changes its state, block behind it is added into _globset
22:49:35  <reto_> why arent there any helicopters after 2000-something?
22:49:39  <SmatZ> because it may need to be updated
22:52:04  <SmatZ> Sacro: if you need different red-green conditions, change UpdateSignalsAroundSegment
22:52:09  <peter__> not enougb engine slots ;)
22:52:50  <reto_> peter__: really?
22:53:18  <Sacro> SmatZ: so if i wanted to add, say yellow signals
22:53:26  <Sacro> i'd need to do that in UpdateSignalsAroundSegment
22:54:30  <peter__> openttd: /home/petern/ottd/trunk/src/ai/default/../../oldpool.h:125: T* OldMemoryPool<T>::Get(uint) const [with T = Engine]: Assertion `index < this->GetSize()' failed.
22:54:31  <peter__> Aborted (core dumped)
22:54:33  <peter__> that sucks ;p
22:57:04  <SmatZ> peter__: with trunk?
22:57:10  <SmatZ> Sacro: yes
22:57:35  <Sacro> SmatZ: i might attempt that in a minute
22:57:42  <Sacro> then have to find out how to add yellowsigsw.grf
22:58:47  <peter__> no
23:02:56  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:04:55  <reto_> where in the source code is defined which vehicel is available from when to when?
23:05:48  <peter__> it's in engine.cpp
23:06:05  <peter__> all sorts of player availability stuff in there
23:06:35  <reto_> was browsing through engine.h,  but.. well
23:06:43  <Brianetta> RIP Sir Edmund Hillary, 1919-2008,
23:06:51  * peter__ sleeps
23:06:55  * dih wins
23:07:02  <peter__> oh, but there's a url now
23:07:06  * peter__ looks
23:07:10  * dih slaps peter__
23:07:37  *** TX [] has joined #openttd
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23:10:43  <dih> night ladies
23:12:26  <SmatZ> night dih
23:13:47  <Sacro> SmatZ: you planning on any signal stuff updates?
23:14:10  *** dih [~dihedral@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:16:10  <SmatZ> Sacro: no...
23:16:30  <SmatZ> not any big changes
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