Log for #openttd on 18th January 2008:
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00:10:38  <fjb> Moin.
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00:13:56  <Ammler> rave: how is the invisible clima?
00:14:44  * fjb assumes it pretty dark. :-)
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00:16:07  <rave> transparent
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01:03:21  <rave> some of these asserts are ridiculous
01:03:36  * Belugas slaps rave
01:03:54  <Belugas> not knowing why != ridiculous
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01:05:25  <rave> bool IsOwnedLand(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_UNMOVABLE)'
01:06:00  <glx> you need to check tile type before calling the function
01:06:11  <Rubidium> or use IsOwnedLandTile
01:06:12  <rave> I know, but why?
01:06:23  <rave> oh sorry
01:06:42  <Rubidium> because most of the places where we want to know whether it is an owned land tile we already know it's an unmovable tile
01:06:46  <Eddi|zuHause> rave: because it makes the function easier in places where it is already known that the tile is unmovable, then it doesn't need to be checked again
01:06:51  <Rubidium> so rechecking that would be a waste of resources
01:07:37  <Eddi|zuHause> of course this ressource criterium only holds when asserts are disabled ;)
01:07:46  <Rubidium> true
01:09:03  <Rubidium> although asserts are probably cheaper than adding it to the if (in case we already know it's such a tile)
01:10:27  * Belugas takes note of not using AnhkVSN for updating his repo
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01:13:57  <blathijs> Hmm, I think I forgot to build deps of the latest beta..
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01:14:22  <Rubidium> aren't deps done automatically?
01:16:18  <fjb> Hm, some people are starnge...
01:17:44  <Belugas> quite
01:18:03  <Belugas> very snartge
01:18:14  <blathijs> Rubidium: Nope, I'll at least have to let something know there is a new version and upload it
01:18:40  <blathijs> Rubidium: Still, I don't want the betas in Debian, so I'll have to build the deps for on sf myself
01:18:45  <blathijs> semi-automated of course
01:19:12  <fjb> Belugas: I don't understand why some people are fighting to add another switch when the same thing is possible by just adding another grf...
01:19:53  <Belugas> talking avout the closure of industry?
01:20:48  <fjb> Yes.
01:20:51  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: so, did you provide them a grf?
01:21:16  <fjb> No, but I even don't provide that switch. :-P
01:21:36  <Belugas> to be honest, fjb, i do understand their point
01:21:37  <Belugas> but ...
01:21:41  <Eddi|zuHause> but, such a grf would probably need updating with each newindustry grf
01:21:50  <Belugas> it is not to say i'm embracing the cause
01:22:18  <Eddi|zuHause> but a switch should be rather trivial to add...
01:22:25  <Belugas> not so, Eddi|zuHause
01:22:31  <fjb> I have often seen people complain that TTD is too hard to play... Strange people...
01:22:32  <Belugas> it has repercussions
01:23:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and, they could just use the production cheat ;)
01:23:24  <Belugas> cheat over cheat
01:23:26  <Belugas> burk
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01:24:37  <fjb> Next strange thing is that I indeed provided something. A patched executable. It got downloaded 21 times since last night and I bet almost nobody could use it. And I still got no complain...
01:25:28  <fjb> I don't know how people can fail to get rich in TTD (beside using the passenger destinations patch).
01:29:04  <Belugas> that is indeed amusing
01:29:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i even got rich in the 2 year demo ;)
01:29:40  <Eddi|zuHause> where "rich" means get several profitable routes and repay loan
01:30:21  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, since you seems to bein favore of a patch, how would you react if i'd told you taht a side effect of that patch would be that your production willnever change?
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01:31:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> i actually do not really care about it...
01:32:14  <Belugas> gaaaa...
01:32:23  <Belugas> picked yp the wrong guy o_O
01:32:37  <Belugas> and do youthink people would complain?
01:32:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> people always complain ;)
01:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> you should know that ;)
01:33:08  <fjb> I bet some people would even like that side effect. No need to change the route or a vehicle on it. Then switch of break downs and you never have to care for that route again. How boring...
01:33:20  <glx> like CARST asking us to raise a limit he didn't reach yet ;)
01:33:55  <fjb> glx: Which topic was that?
01:34:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> but still... the production cheat should already do that, right?
01:35:24  <Belugas> it is individual to each induistry. not global
01:35:33  <glx> fjb:
01:35:41  <Belugas> and i do think they want a global solution
01:35:53  <Belugas> you know, the kind with the less effort...
01:37:27  <fjb> glx: Only airplanes? How boring. Their game parameters are set way too easy if they jhave that many planes at that time.
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01:38:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> 15000 airplanes? i can't really imagine how such a map looks like...
01:39:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean i have barely 200 trains after 40 (x4) years
01:39:20  <Rubidium> like something infested I guess
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01:41:49  <fjb> For me TTD gets boring soon if all parameters are set that easy. I'm playing with the passenger destinations patch, UKRS and PBI at the moment.
01:42:52  <Belugas> CARST should be put in jail...  such foolishness...
01:43:07  <fjb> :-)
01:43:39  <fjb> I guess the more foolish the people are the more they are writing in forums.
01:47:04  <Belugas> yeah...the idea of the empty barrel ;)
01:47:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> i love how he states "we will reach that limit soon" and later he says "we stopped playing for at least one month" :p
01:47:23  <fjb> What's that? It makes most noise?
01:50:45  <Belugas> ;)
01:52:07  <fjb> :-)
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01:54:34  <Belugas> to be honest, tough, that industry closure is bothersome
01:55:27  <Belugas> i really do not know what to think of it...  on one side, it's fun when people appreciate the game, it's band when they complain.. There is always be complains
01:55:28  <Belugas> but...
01:55:40  <Belugas> it's true that big maps are a problem for that
01:56:15  <Belugas> but the problem will not get magically removed with a simple patch
01:56:20  <Belugas> there is implications to all actions
01:56:26  <Belugas> -is+are
01:56:43  <fjb> I guess the most complains are because George's industries tend to close very quick. The problem does not really exist with PBI. But George is working on it.
01:56:44  <Belugas> making it a cheat or a patch will not help
01:57:00  <Belugas> true, and i expect a lot out of it
01:57:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> i guess the ECS industries were designed with 256x256 maps in mind
01:58:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> with maps 64 times bigger, that's always going to cause trouble
01:58:28  <fjb> His industries are in alpha or beta state. And nobody did an industry replacement project as big as that. So everything has to be tried out to get a good balance.
01:59:27  <Belugas> yeah
01:59:30  <Belugas> that is true
01:59:37  <fjb> And there is still PBI.
01:59:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, still, what might have appeared perfectly balanced in TTDP context, can be totally unsuitible for OTTD
02:00:10  <fjb> I'm playing PBI at the moment because ECS changes too fast at the moment.
02:00:12  <Belugas> pbi works maevelously well
02:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not work with Alpine ;)
02:00:44  <DaleStan> Belugas: Have you seen my comments on the map-size variable you were suggesting?
02:00:59  <fjb> But PBI is not that complex as ECS is. Implementing ECS hast to be far more difficult with the complexity.
02:01:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the snow covered mountains are just too beautiful
02:01:26  <Belugas> yes i did, DaleStan
02:01:34  <fjb> DaleStan: I love some of your coments. :-)
02:01:45  <Belugas> but... i got the feeling that is was not a good idea, DaleStan
02:01:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> especially when they end with "or something"? :p
02:02:07  <Belugas> DaleStan: do you think i should do it anyway?
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02:03:37  <DaleStan> It's your call, I think. It's really quite easy to add another constant value to Patch. Adding a non-constant value to Open will be more work.
02:04:15  <glx> map-size is constant once the game is started ;)
02:04:42  <Belugas> true, and the call is already made on my side.  not commited tough
02:04:46  <DaleStan> But not at compile-time, as it is for Patch.
02:05:16  <Belugas> Patch would not change its value, since map size is fixed
02:05:36  <Belugas> Open is based on each new map been generated
02:05:52  <Belugas> so it's a simle value to be provided to the callback,
02:05:56  <Belugas> which is quite easy
02:06:34  <Belugas> DaleStan, any suggestion for the best place to install the said variable?
02:06:41  <Belugas> THAT is your call ;)
02:09:29  <DaleStan> I was thinking "patch-special" variable 13 (The variables read with 0D <target> 00 <var-num> FE FF FF 00 00), since it's a runtime constant, and the var-action-2 global space is more limited.
02:11:49  * Belugas will look at it before going to sleep
02:12:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> sleep... i should be trying that for a change...
02:15:03  <Belugas> comments in Delphi !+ Comments in C++
02:15:06  <Belugas> pfffff....
02:15:13  <Belugas> no, i'm not tired AT ALL
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02:16:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> i was wondering once, if you could write programs that are both valid pascal and valid c programs ;)
02:17:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11913 /trunk/src/ (disaster_cmd.cpp economy.cpp): -Fix (r11871): update signals after company bankrupt and disaster too
02:17:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> since c blocks would be pascal comments
02:18:43  <Belugas> i do sometimes write syntaxically in c with delphi keywords
02:18:47  <Belugas> and vice-versa
02:18:52  <Belugas> nasty...
02:19:36  <fjb> Just stop using Delphi.
02:19:44  <fjb> And also stop using C.
02:20:03  <fjb> Start using something modern with elegance.
02:21:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> there is nothing wrong with delphi
02:21:51  <fjb> Like there is nothing wrong with Wndows 95? :-)
02:21:57  <Belugas> indeed not, even more when DElphi is the one bringing bread on the table :P
02:23:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> there is something seriously wrong with windows anything, that is not the point ;)
02:23:46  <fjb> Ok, that is a point. :-)
02:25:15  <fjb> Poor ai is buying planes which are almost useless with the passenger destination patch when you don't have big towns with big local networks.
02:26:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> you are really cruel
02:27:06  <fjb> Me? :-)
02:27:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, for activating AI
02:27:40  <fjb> I'm feeling alone without the ai.
02:27:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> btw. how trunk worthy are these passenger destinations meanwhile?
02:28:01  <fjb> Not really stable yet.
02:28:32  <fjb> It gets better all the time, but it is definitly not ready for trunk.
02:29:21  <fjb> But it is already fun to play with it when you don't mind that it crashes the game sometimes. And I didn't test it in mulptiplayer yet.
02:31:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> i guess i'll wait a little longer then...
02:31:53  <fjb> Depends on what you are expecting. The patch is worth a try.
02:31:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't really want to deal with patches that change savegame format anyway, they are too troublesome to update
02:33:19  <fjb> I don't mind if I can't complete a game. I know that that could happen beforehand. But I have fun to try new thing. The current game is r11834 with passenger destination patch and programmable way points.
02:33:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's why i took the saving part out of the daylength patch
02:34:24  <fjb> I also had a build with the passenger destinations patch and the new pbs patch.
02:34:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> i typically play the same game for a very long time
02:35:01  <fjb> That was not really playable but it was fun to watch the trains as long as they didn't have to go to a depot.
02:35:51  <fjb> I have a game that I'm playing for about three month now. But I love to try new things.
02:39:27  <fjb> I hope that the new PBS path becomes good enough to get included into trunk one day.
02:39:39  <Belugas> so do i
02:40:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> PBS are always a nice thing to have ;)
02:40:58  <fjb> It was fun to watch the trains to overtake each other without awfull backward signalling hacks.
02:41:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm looking forward to having real 2-way-stations
02:42:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> and i'd want to limit the overtaking to those
02:43:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> 2-way-sections are the biggest problem with the current signalling
02:43:32  <fjb> Yes.
02:44:03  <fjb> 2-way-stations are already possible without PBS but the are becoming monsters.
02:44:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> my stations end up as "half-two-way"
02:44:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> meaning each platform can be entered from one side, and exited to two
02:45:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> but to have overtaking possibility, you need at least 4 tracks
02:45:40  <fjb> Half-two-way can be a problem because the pathfinder chooses the next free platform, even if it can't reach it's next destination from that platform.
02:45:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> which is unrealistic
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02:46:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i said exit is possible in all directions
02:46:25  <fjb> I think you could build an overtaking possibility with 2 tracks.
02:46:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> not without major locking risk
02:47:04  <fjb> I may start experimenting with such a design.
02:48:02  <fjb> I didn't think out all locking possibilities of my design yet. You may be right. I don't know yet.
02:50:35  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2012.%20Mai%201939.png
02:52:09  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2024.%20Dez%201939.png
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02:53:54  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2020.%20Okt%201947.png
02:54:19  <fjb> What do you think about this? (Overtaking point)
02:55:12  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: I know your nice looking station designs. :-)
02:55:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have more ;)
02:55:37  <fjb> :-)
02:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2028.%20Aug%201948.png
02:56:24  <fjb> :-)
02:56:51  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2029.%20Dez%201955.png
02:57:00  <fjb> But what do you think about the overtaking point? I know it looks a bit ugly.
02:57:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> which one?
02:57:54  <fjb> Nice
02:58:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> how is that supposed to work?
02:58:11  <fjb> The one with the label "Overtaking point".
02:59:09  <fjb> It enables the trains to switch tracks without the possibility of a deadlock when 2 trains pass each other.
02:59:45  <fjb> The signals are decoupling the two tracks.
03:00:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but only if you have a block length longer than the trains, and then it only works if the slower train completely stops (i.e. station) and in that case, the overtaking will only work in one direction
03:01:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think that is worth the effort
03:01:30  <fjb> Overtaking should work in both directions. And you are right, the block has to be really long.
03:02:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> this is why i want only overtaking in stations, the slower train usually stops there
03:02:21  <fjb> I don't know if it is of any use in a real game. Maybe I will try it.
03:02:52  <fjb> Stations can be far apart on a big map.
03:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i am really proud of that last station of mine ;)
03:03:22  <fjb> Yes, it looks great.
03:03:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have another one somewhere...
03:04:09  <fjb> Wasn't it you who build the line at the border of a beautiful fjord?
03:04:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> wait...
03:04:29  <fjb> And when will we habe rivers in OpenTTD? :-)
03:04:57  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2021.%20Sep%201956.png
03:05:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> something like that?
03:05:19  <Belugas> GimmeMore GimmeMore GimmeMore!!!
03:05:48  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%208.%20Mai%201931.png (pre smooth foundations)
03:05:58  <fjb> Nice, but I had somethingelse in my mind. Or was it Gonozal with that fjord?
03:06:15  <fjb> Ah, the last one.
03:06:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is a shot just south of the other one
03:06:26  <fjb> I was thinking about that.
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03:07:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> the best part about that is the Rheingold train next to the river bank ;)
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03:09:42  <fjb> Yes.
03:09:57  <fjb>
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03:11:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> the road ramp to the station looks great ;)
03:11:26  <fjb> Yes, I like that new industrial stations grf.
03:11:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> i dislike the steel station, though
03:12:48  <fjb> Ok, that is looking not that nice. But I can't play that game further. It will crash soon. that is one of the bugs in the passenger destinations patch.
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03:15:09  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2021.%20Apr%201955.png (that one is new, i believe)
03:16:00  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2024.%20Jan%201951.png (my interpretation of a steel station)
03:16:03  <fjb> Is that file broken? I'm not able to view irt.
03:16:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> try again
03:16:39  <fjb> Nice steel station.
03:16:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> might not have completely finished uploading when you tried
03:17:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> although it said 100% here
03:17:20  <fjb> Now it is working.
03:17:43  <fjb> I don't want to live in that town. :-)
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03:18:13  <fjb> I would dislike a train below my house. :-)
03:18:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... that is like happening all over the world ;) (subway etc.)
03:19:19  <fjb> But a cargo subway with steam engines? :-)
03:19:23  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2028.%20Jan%201951.png
03:19:32  <fjb> My big town:
03:19:57  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2023.%20Jan%201952.png
03:20:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> that last one has waypoints to resolve the next-destination-issue
03:20:19  <fjb> I see you like to dig tunnels.
03:20:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> not particularly
03:20:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd rather have the junction completely flat
03:20:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> but that is impossible without PBS
03:21:06  <fjb> I see, but waypoints are not always working as expected.
03:21:48  <fjb> That is why I had to try the PBS patch, even if it is not playable.
03:22:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think i'm done now
03:22:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a few more stations, but they mostly resemble the same pattern
03:24:27  <fjb> I never got this station working as i wished. The pathfinder would have to be far more intelligent to handle this one:
03:25:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> those combo signals don't seem like they'd ever work as expected...
03:25:55  <fjb> Maybe fiddling with time tables could help a bit.
03:26:21  <fjb> I tried many signal layouts there. Nothing worked.
03:26:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i can imagine
03:28:00  <fjb> I had to blast the house behind the short platform and join the track behind the station to the line.
03:29:55  <fjb> It looked like this then:
03:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> the combo signals still look wrong...
03:34:36  <fjb> Which of the signals?
03:35:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can either presignal the track from the lower right into the station, or from the station outwards, but not both
03:37:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's one of the main limitation of presignals, they don't look for the reachable exit signals, but all exit signals in the block
03:37:46  <fjb> Hm, maybe. But it was working somehow. And the single track line should get a second track soon.
03:38:08  <fjb> Yes, that is a real pain with the presignals.
03:41:03  <fjb> Can somebody please teach the ai not to build 90° turns? Thank you.
03:42:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> that one is easy: turn off the AI, it will never build 90° turns anymore
03:43:58  <fjb> Sounds way too easy. :-)
03:44:22  <fjb> And who wants to play with me then?
03:44:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> i didn't bother with AI in over 10 years now...
03:45:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> the game is still interesting ;)
03:45:23  <fjb> I didn't know the game a year ago. :-)
03:45:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> i got annoyed with the AI pretty fast
03:46:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> then i learned that you can put competitors to 0 ;)
03:46:21  <fjb> I doesn't annoy me that much on bigger maps.
03:46:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> i can't remember ever having AI allowed in TTD
03:47:03  <fjb> I like it when the ai road vehicles are mixing with my own.
03:47:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> i rarely do road anyway
03:47:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> i played a little with trams
03:47:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> but it's no real fun without passenger destinations
03:48:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> also, the german tram set is very incomplete
03:48:24  <fjb> The dutch tram set is nice.
03:48:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, need to sleep
03:48:42  <fjb> Ok, good night.
03:48:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11914 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 4 dirs): -Documentation: fix some @file statement
03:49:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> what an odd commit at 5 AM ;)
03:49:29  <fjb> :-) 5 AM where in the world...
03:49:33  <glx> here
03:49:51  <fjb> And CIA sounds evel anyway.
03:54:17  <fjb> Does an electrified railway line only have higher building costs or also higher maintaining costs?
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04:10:36  <rave> night all
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04:12:27  <fjb> Good night.
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07:24:10  <Forked> morning!
07:24:19  <peter1138> arrr
07:25:57  <Ammller> good morning #openttd
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07:30:00  <SquireJames> hello fellows
07:30:04  <SquireJames> smaaaaall question
07:31:06  <SquireJames> which is the more recent, the 0.6.0 Beta 2 or the latest Nightly (r11904)
07:32:43  <peter1138> hmm, well
07:32:51  <peter1138> beta 2 was released 6th december
07:33:17  <peter1138> r11904 was created 17th january
07:33:36  <peter1138> doesn't seem that hard a question to me
07:33:44  <peter1138> but i better confer
07:36:59  <Rubidium> peter1138: wasn't there some bend in the time-space-continuum that causes everything made in 2007 to be more recent than anything made in 2008?
07:37:19  <peter1138> well i didn't specify the year, so...
07:39:04  <Forked> I think the clue is in "latest" :)
07:39:55  <Rubidium> Forked: not quite, cause beta2 was onces newer than the nightly
07:40:30  <SquireJames> well, I was wondering which was the better to use
07:40:37  <Forked> Rubidium: :\
07:40:37  <SquireJames> currently I am using beta 3
07:40:49  <Noldo> what's wrong with it?
07:41:01  <peter1138> it has new bugs :D
07:41:25  <Noldo> :)
07:41:54  <Noldo> are they better than the old ones?
07:42:16  <SquireJames> well nothing is "wrong" exactly
07:42:38  <SquireJames> just the towns no longer report changes in ratings
07:43:13  <peter1138> i've never known a town do that
07:43:31  <SquireJames> well it pops up like when you spend or earn money
07:43:45  <SquireJames> perhaps it was a ChrisIn thing
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07:44:38  <SquireJames> anyways, what do the devs reccomend we use
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07:51:11  <SquireJames> any ideas?
07:54:35  <peter1138> well
07:55:16  <peter1138> if you want multiplayer, stick with a beta
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08:05:06  <SquireJames> not particularly, I would LOVE programmable waypoints/signals
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08:05:12  <SquireJames> but, not happening it seems
08:05:45  <Noldo> how would you gui them?
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08:21:01  <SquireJames> well
08:21:14  <SquireJames> the Programmable Waypoints patch seems to work well
08:21:23  <SquireJames> except for the crashes (if that makes sense)
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08:26:34  <SquireJames> basically, if it didnt crash, itd be wonderful
08:26:54  <peter1138> heh
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08:33:49  <SquireJames> well, the other idea i had, which I bet would be a bugger to implement is that certain platform types only accept certain goods
08:34:17  <SquireJames> for example, ordinary platforms can only deal with Passengers (and Tourists if using ECS)
08:34:40  <SquireJames> ordinary freight platforms would accept goods vans, post vans etc
08:34:55  <Noldo> and the benefit would be?
08:34:56  <SquireJames> mineral unloaders would accept hoppers
08:35:30  <SquireJames> it means you don't get your passenger trains attempting to squeese down a tiny freight siding because your local freight went to a mainline platform
08:37:35  <SquireJames> I just want an easy, flexible way to make my freight trains use freight platforms, my express passengers use the main line platforms and my suburbans use the bay platforms
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08:59:44  <peter1138> arrrr
08:59:58  * keyweed_ shivers his timbers
09:00:16  * SquireJames puts on an eyepatch
09:01:23  <Forked> SquireJames: well the programmable waypoints patch would fix that.. but for me it has not been multiplayer safe (only tested with the bigger maps patch by bilbo).. I wish I could get it working :)
09:01:47  <SquireJames> well, i've tried the programmable waypoints
09:01:55  <SquireJames> it works, but suffers from intermitten faults
09:02:21  <Forked> could also use just waypoints.. I did that in our latest game
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09:10:44  <SquireJames> true
09:15:32  <SquireJames> oh btw do you use Pikkas Industries or ECS?
09:15:55  <Forked> no, atm we are only playing with the new stations
09:16:05  <Forked> jcindstaw.grf
09:16:08  <SquireJames> oh
09:16:18  <SquireJames> Just, I did use Pikkas but im trying out ECS
09:16:23  <SquireJames> but, somethings make little sense
09:16:32  <SquireJames> Coal to a Brickworks to make bricks?
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09:25:55  <dih> hello
09:26:00  <SquireJames> hello
09:26:04  <dih> @seen Bjarni
09:26:04  <DorpsGek> dih: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 15 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <Bjarni> nothing special there
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10:13:12  <SmatZ> morning
10:13:16  <SquireJames> hello
10:18:18  <SquireJames> bah i can't fathom this ECS
10:18:28  <SquireJames> no matter what I do I can't build tourist centres
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10:37:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11915 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Add a function to draw a sort button's up/down arrow. Arrows are now drawn in a consistent position based on the widget, instead of randomly positioned by pixel.
10:43:33  * roboboy is bored
10:43:57  * SquireJames is starting a new game trying to plan out his mainlines better
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10:44:54  <roboboy> I may play AOE2
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10:46:25  <dih> peter1138: is the 'close window' button (the x in the top left corner) supposed to be missing in beta3 of one of the config windows?
10:46:57  <peter1138> in the difficulty settings
10:47:00  <peter1138> apparently so
10:47:08  <peter1138> and the "nice" colour scheme :o
10:47:09  <dih> because of the 'cancle' button
10:47:26  <dih> i just hered that a few people were confused by the missing x
10:47:31  <dih> *heard
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11:28:46  <Tefad> probably mac users
11:31:24  <dih> ?
11:32:07  <Tefad> i've run into panels on a mac where there's no OK or save button you just hit the x when you're done
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11:33:32  <peter1138> heh
11:33:33  <peter1138> yeah
11:34:08  <dih> yes - true
11:34:12  <dih> :-P
11:34:31  <Tefad> confusing for non-mac users.
11:34:43  <dih> that is why they are non-mac users :-P
11:34:55  <Tefad> even more confusing for unix guys, as we tend to prefer editing flat text files
11:35:05  <Tefad> none of this binary encoded xml nonsense ; )
11:35:07  <dih> heh
11:35:24  <dih> i have not come across binary encoded xml
11:35:33  <Tefad> probably because you use the GUIs
11:35:40  <dih> only gziped xml
11:35:47  <Tefad> ah those too then
11:35:54  <dih> and it aint that hard to gunzip, edit, gzip
11:35:59  <Tefad> i forget binary xml is rather newish
11:36:23  <Tefad> it's two more steps than necessary imho
11:36:27  <dih> but yes - i dont tend to configure my mac via the command line
11:36:48  <Tefad> i view macs as an obstacle
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11:36:51  <dih> as so far the gui has not proven to me that it is limiting me
11:37:00  <Tefad> there's UNIX underneath but a bunch of crap in my way to using it ; )
11:37:18  <dih> depends on what you use it for
11:37:31  <dih> windows - to me - is way more of an obstacle
11:37:33  <Tefad> only running seldom mac specific softwares
11:37:45  <Tefad> there's nothing of value underneath windows, that's why ; )
11:38:02  <SquireJames> Oh btw
11:38:05  <dih> i see os x as a wonderful compromise
11:38:09  <Tefad> you have to strap things on top to get decent unix
11:38:16  <SquireJames> has anyone checked out my new sounds for OTTD in the Sound replacement thread>
11:38:22  <dih> nope
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11:38:25  <Tefad> not i
11:38:53  <dih> Tefad: i got meself a mac when i wanted a neat gui for working, yet wanted the power of a console when i needed it
11:38:56  <Tefad> it is somewhat comforting seeing how easy it is to do quick ports to OS X for many programs
11:39:11  <dih> well - now it is
11:39:19  <dih> with intel macs
11:39:20  <Tefad> (if your users like running the X server that is..)
11:39:33  <dih> who would not have the x server installed?
11:39:37  <dih> ^^
11:39:43  <Tefad> i've run into it many many times
11:40:02  <Tefad> OMG where's the OS disc.. the what?
11:40:53  <Tefad> i guess if you just want a shell account, macs are ok
11:41:21  <Tefad> that's mostly what i use SFU for at work (in windows land)
11:42:07  <Tefad> gnu desktop on a mac? har harhar.
11:43:20  <Tefad> but i guess that's why you're running OS X in the first place
11:43:49  <Tefad> i can't customize the UI enough to be comfortable
11:43:55  <Tefad> not that i've tried in a while.
11:44:13  <Tefad> (i think 10.3 was last i used OS X)
11:44:27  <dih> lol
11:44:34  <dih> 10.4 is sweet :-P
11:44:39  <dih> and 10.5 ... uh...
11:44:54  <Tefad> also apple tends to break backward compatibility like crazy, all the time
11:45:10  <Tefad> in windows land, at least there's win9x
11:45:27  <Tefad> most modern stuff will still function in win95 given enough patches to the OS
11:45:38  <Tefad> (not that you'd want to do that for production work)
11:46:07  <Tefad> i don't know if similar approach exists for OS X
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12:01:07  <dih> eaney meeny miny moe
12:01:15  <dih> pick a devy by his toe
12:01:24  <dih> if he hollers let him go
12:01:27  <dih> eaney meeny miny moe
12:03:52  <peter1138> ...
12:05:04  <dih> i think it's funny...
12:06:37  <keyweed_> "funny" kills.
12:06:52  <dih> oh c'mon :-P
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12:22:10  <LA[ill]> hello
12:25:54  <peter1138> everyone's ill :o
12:28:34  <LA[ill]> a terrible headache after swimming classes...
12:29:00  <LA[ill]> I probably shouldn't be behind computer even...
12:29:42  <keyweed_> neither should i. i should be on a beach somewhere in the pacific.  but code doesn't write itsself
12:32:46  <LA[ill]> :P
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12:58:44  <SquireJames> hmmm
12:59:04  <SquireJames> I ws asked if I wanted to test the Balloon Class Tram and the Lockheed Electra twice each
13:03:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11916 /trunk/src/ (9 files):
13:03:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: use enums from VehicleViewWindowWidgets instead of constants
13:03:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: refit button widget was not correctly updated
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13:22:17  <yorick> hello again :)
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13:24:35  <SmatZ> hi yorick
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13:31:23  * yorick tries to disable desyncs one more time
13:31:38  * yorick comments out the NetworkError(STR_NETWORK_ERR_DESYNC) line
13:32:53  * yorick comments out the NetworkClientError(NETWORK_RECV_STATUS_DESYNC, DEREF_CLIENT(0)); line too
13:34:42  * frosch123 remembers a lecture about empirical computer science
13:36:48  <yorick> what did it say?
13:41:22  <frosch123> I went there only one or two times, but they did things like writing the same program with different depths in object hierarchy. And then they counted the bugs.
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13:45:03  <yorick> and?
13:45:57  <yorick> what were the results?
13:46:02  <frosch123> They told us to only use depth 3 for all our problems.
13:46:17  <frosch123> But I though: Leave the lecture as quick as possible.
13:46:33  <roboman> gnight
13:46:38  <yorick> gnight?
13:46:45  <yorick> [14:46] <roboman> gnight
13:47:09  <frosch123> Parallel to that I heard a lecture about software engineering, and then I decided to study math instead of computer science :)
13:47:23  <yorick> :D
13:47:34  <roboman> what yorick
13:47:42  <yorick> its 14:47
13:47:56  <roboman> for me its nearly one am
13:48:23  <roboman> so hah
13:48:25  <roboman> bye
13:49:11  <yorick> hmm... openttd doesn't like syncs when not-having the same grf's
13:50:30  <yorick> some problem with av8 and trying to change speed
13:54:26  <Dominik> lol, has anyone ever gotten this error message on google? "We're sorry... but your query looks similar to automated requests from a computer virus or spyware application. To protect our users, we can't process your request right now. "
13:55:10  <Noldo> no
13:55:48  <Dominik> googling for "480*256/1024" did the trick for me
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13:56:39  <peter1138> (480 * 256) / 1 024 = 120
13:56:40  <peter1138> heh
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13:57:31  <yorP> what query?
13:57:46  <Sacro> that one?
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13:58:53  <yorP> [14:54] <Dominik> lol, has anyone ever gotten this error message on google? "We're sorry... but your query looks similar to automated requests from a computer virus or spyware application. To protect our users, we can't process your request right now. " <-- what did you type?
13:59:12  * yorP was disconnected for a while
13:59:16  <Dominik> 480*256/1024
13:59:33  <yorP> just makes 120
13:59:37  <Noldo> :D
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14:07:11  <yorick> what rev was 0.6.0-beta3 based on?
14:09:55  <Digitalfox> yorick: 11868
14:10:19  <Digitalfox> or better r11867 if you don't care about changelog stuff
14:11:06  <glx> and that's not important, as the release source is not totally the same as trunk source
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14:12:42  <yorick> 11869, thank you
14:13:21  <glx> if you want to get 0.6.0-beta3 source just use tags/0.6.0-beta3
14:14:09  <Digitalfox> by the way glx if we compare a nighty's version to a release version like beta 3, and since the nightly has some debug code on ( If understand it right ) does the performance on a big save game is any different ?
14:14:17  <yorick> no, I want to see what patch version I should take to have one compatible with 0.6.0-beta3
14:14:42  <glx> Digitalfox: asserts are enabled in betas too
14:15:03  <yorick> but some other debug stuff isn't
14:15:58  <Digitalfox> Ok, so if i load savegame in 0.5.3 and on 0.5.3 RC is the performance of the game any diffrent, assuming 0.5.3 RC is like 0.6 beta 3 with assertions on.. ?
14:16:19  <yorick> RC != beta
14:16:24  <glx> asserts are enabled since beta2
14:18:39  <glx> yorick: right, beta are released before branching and can contain new features, RC are released after branching and contains only bug fixes
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14:23:24  <fjb> Moin
14:23:32  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
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14:23:57  <LA[ill]> oh no!! he again.. why Gonozal_VIII  why?
14:24:10  <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe
14:24:22  <Gonozal_VIII> i make you sick?^^
14:26:27  <LA[ill]> ill, not sick
14:26:47  <Gonozal_VIII> same thing, same thing
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14:29:56  <LA[ill]> nope.. when I was in .. fifth grade, our English teacher explained that if sick is used then it might be something to do with pregnancy... and I'm NOT PREGNANT!!
14:30:08  <LA[ill]> so ill is a better choice
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14:30:26  <Gonozal_VIII> how can you be so sure, you're not pregnant?
14:30:54  <LA[ill]> hmm.. I'm male, is that a good reason enough?
14:31:02  <hylje> arnold was pregnant too
14:31:05  <Gonozal_VIII> nope, never seen junior?
14:31:09  <Noldo> :D
14:31:49  <Shark> hi, when i try to load a savegame from ttd into openttd i got this error: /openttd-0.6.0-beta3/src/oldpool.h:125: T* OldMemoryPool<T>::Get(uint) const [with T = Order]: Assertion `index < this->GetSize()' failed.
14:32:12  <LA[ill]> ok.. I admit.. I have taken baby pills.. I know I can't be pregnant :P
14:32:13  <Shark> is there some workaround?
14:32:30  <Gonozal_VIII> there's still some risk!
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14:32:59  <LA[ill]> which is eliminated with not having sex? I'm 14, man..!
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14:33:21  <Gonozal_VIII> so? lots of 14 year olds have sex
14:33:29  <Gonozal_VIII> and are pregnant!
14:33:30  <LA[ill]> I haven't had
14:33:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> Shark: post savegame to
14:33:42  <Gonozal_VIII> you're pregnant, face it
14:33:50  <LA[ill]> and how many of them are males Gonozal_VIII ?
14:34:05  <Digitalfox> peter1138: Could you update your patch to last revision, i had just a assertion with the last one you made, and want to see if has been fixed in trunk or is from your patch :)
14:34:12  <Gonozal_VIII> lots of 14 year olds are male :P
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14:34:20  <LA[ill]> or I'm the lucky first one, who hasn't had sex, is mle and pregnant
14:34:40  <LA[ill]> ehh.. somebody HAS to be the first then..
14:34:52  <Shark> Eddi|zuHause2, ok, anything else that may helps?
14:35:15  <Gonozal_VIII> lots of 14 year olds are male... lots of 14 year olds are pregnant... you're 14 years old... obviously pregnant
14:35:29  * keyweed_ blinks
14:35:33  <Shark> it simply segfault without any other info
14:35:34  <glx> Shark: is it a plain TTD savegame or TTDPatch ?
14:35:35  <fjb> Does the terraforming of the ai follow any pattern?
14:35:39  <keyweed_> OpenSex ??
14:36:14  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe, somebody changed the source of pregnacy^^
14:36:30  <Shark> glx, well, it's converted from an old tto savegame with svxconverter
14:36:31  <glx> Shark: and attach the crash.dmp file too
14:36:59  <Shark> but i've tried it on ttd under dosbox and works
14:37:10  <Gonozal_VIII> and did you resave it with ttd?
14:37:15  <Shark> yep
14:37:21  <Shark> and also under ttdpatch
14:37:30  <Shark> both read it
14:37:42  <Gonozal_VIII> ttd games are more likely to work than ttdpatch
14:38:00  <Gonozal_VIII> 5.3?
14:38:11  <peter1138> Digitalfox, what assertion, and doing what?
14:38:38  <Shark> no the last beta3
14:38:52  <Digitalfox> I was trying DBset and XL and when i build each maglev from each set it crashed
14:38:59  <Shark> i've also tried the svn version with the same result
14:39:24  <peter1138> hmm, i don't have dbset
14:39:43  <Gonozal_VIII> dbset and dbset xl at the same time?
14:39:45  * peter1138 gets
14:39:53  <Digitalfox> peter1138:
14:40:49  <Shark> glx, where is saved crash.dmp?
14:40:54  <Shark> under .openttd?
14:41:03  <peter1138> Digitalfox, what's the _s one?
14:41:21  <glx> Shark: linux?
14:41:28  <Digitalfox> Maglev with mail and passenger wagons from each set
14:41:33  <Shark> glx, yep
14:41:41  <glx> no crash.dmp then :)
14:42:21  <peter1138> ook
14:42:28  <peter1138> dbset gets disabled if dbsetxl is loaded
14:42:55  <peter1138> so you can test them together
14:43:00  <Digitalfox> try loading dbsetxl and then dbset..
14:43:07  <peter1138> doesn't matter
14:43:13  <peter1138> either way, dbset is disabled
14:44:13  <Digitalfox> So since this patch there's no need to protect against that scenario, would it be possible to break that protection to load anyway the set's?
14:44:28  <peter1138> no
14:44:36  <peter1138> the grf itself does the disabling
14:44:48  <Digitalfox> yes, peter but could you override it?
14:44:51  <peter1138> no
14:45:09  <Shark> glx, when i try to register on i got this error: Notice: Undefined variable: register_text in /www/ on line 558
14:45:11  <Shark> :(
14:45:28  <Gonozal_VIII> [15:44:48] Digitalfox: yes, peter but could you override it?
14:45:28  <Gonozal_VIII> [15:44:51] peter1138: no
14:45:30  <Gonozal_VIII> sure you can
14:45:37  <Gonozal_VIII> remove the action 7
14:45:45  <Gonozal_VIII> or change the grfid of dbset
14:45:47  <glx> no, because disabling may have many causes
14:46:03  <Digitalfox> well, i know he can but i'm talking about the patch doing that automaticly, but i guess he's against it :)
14:46:17  <glx> it could be "wrong climate", "grf conflict", ...
14:46:43  <Digitalfox> you have a point glx
14:46:47  <yorick> there si a bug in the bug reporting system :-D
14:47:21  <yorick> is*
14:47:42  <Shark> lol :D
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14:49:10  <yorick> hmm...I patched 0.6.0-beta3 as a 0.6.0-beta2 :D
14:49:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11917 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix (r3677): AI was reading wrong tile slope while building road bridge
14:49:31  <glx> Shark: aren't you already registered?
14:49:45  <peter1138> it probably registered then blew up
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14:51:21  <Shark> glx, nope
14:51:38  <Shark> i've discovered openttd last week;)
14:53:49  <Shark> i can try a savegame from the web to see if it works
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14:55:43  <Shark> with a random savefile it works
14:56:00  <Shark> i guess the problem is with the converter?
14:58:03  <DaleStan> If TTD(Patch) can open it, then the game is probably OK. Not certainly, but probably. The longer TTD(Patch) can play it, the more likely the game is OK.
14:59:32  <Shark> ok i'll give it a try
14:59:35  <Shark> thanks
15:00:00  <Shark> bye
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15:15:30  <hylje>
15:15:49  <SmatZ> :D
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15:24:22  <pavel1269> hi
15:27:33  <dih> :-)
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15:33:27  * LA[ill] rembers dih that it's 18-th January already. 13 days more...
15:33:44  <LA[ill]> reminds*
15:35:08  <dih> patience is a virtue
15:35:44  <dih> vitue was never one of my virtues ^^
15:37:15  <peter1138> 13 days for what?
15:37:34  <peter1138> apart from end of the month
15:37:35  <dih> wwottdgd
15:37:39  <peter1138> oh
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15:37:48  <dih> we turn ottd into an mmo
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15:38:23  <dih>
15:38:31  <dih>
15:38:51  <dih> the screenie in the second url :-)
15:39:14  <dih> 'twas awsome...
15:39:28  <dih> though i did fool myself
15:40:10  <dih> 2 of the patches i wrote were the 'move clients' and forcing clients to join as spec - no matter what
15:40:24  <dih> that was to allow for a certain level of sanity
15:40:35  <dih> nobody could just join and 'flood' or stuff like that
15:40:56  <dih> and we (mainly i) had to 'move' the clients from spec into 'their' company
15:41:10  <dih> a big 2048^2 map of europ, split into zones
15:41:35  <dih> using TB's gobal tracks patch, one company provided 'inter zone' networks
15:41:38  <dih> and airports
15:41:41  <dih> :-)
15:41:51  <hylje> :>
15:41:55  <dih> server is still running if you'd like to take a look :-)
15:42:08  <dih> peter1138 is letting me monologue....
15:42:15  <NukeBuster> Belugas, did you have a look at
15:42:56  <dih> you always paste your session id?
15:43:12  <NukeBuster> hmm
15:43:19  <NukeBuster> no i normally do'nt
15:43:26  <hylje> blame php
15:43:46  <dih> that url just takes me to the main page of the forums...
15:44:03  <NukeBuster> i thought i copied the url... but the session id is ip bound so wouldn't matter really
15:44:12  <NukeBuster> *
15:45:06  <dih> yes - it is a nice idea
15:45:29  <NukeBuster> it's a very simple patch...
15:45:40  <dih> of course it would be
15:45:53  <NukeBuster> every thing was already there...
15:46:43  <dih> personally i would add a server side setting which lets the admin 'request', permit and deny password setting on companies
15:47:21  <NukeBuster> hmm... but the code as is, would set a password when joining if one is set in openttd.cfg
15:47:54  <dih> yes i know
15:48:18  <NukeBuster> my patch just brings that to the light
15:48:24  <dih> yet say the server admin 'requested' people to set a password, window pops up
15:48:37  <dih> does not allow no password
15:49:01  <dih> if server setting is 'allow' or 'permit' client side setting is popup=true or false
15:49:19  <NukeBuster> thats a nice idea
15:49:25  <dih> if server setting is deny (which could be useful to openttdcoop) then the window is _never_ shown
15:49:48  <NukeBuster> should i change it so that the default password also isnt set on deny?
15:49:48  <dih> and the password button in the companies overview window is also disabled
15:50:09  <dih> to be honest, what you did and what i just expressed are 2 diff things
15:50:17  <dih> perhaps keep the patch you have
15:50:23  <dih> and build an 'addon patch'
15:50:29  <dih> that uses your current patch
15:50:35  <NukeBuster> thats would i thought as well...
15:50:36  <Belugas> NukeBuster, i'm not into network stuff.  I have played one or two MPs since i've started.  So. i'm not going to YaY or Nay on it. Sorry
15:51:15  <NukeBuster> Ok, thanks for your reply Belugas. By who should I be for the network stuff?
15:51:36  <NukeBuster> *Who should I ask?
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15:53:18  <NukeBuster> Dihedral, I think it's a nice idea to make it a second patch. I will look in to how to make patch settings and try to implement that.
15:54:51  <dih> perhaps make sure that if you use patch settings, that they are ones that are not stored in the sav games
15:55:05  <dih> as it could break compatability to older / other sav's
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15:55:39  <NukeBuster> ok thanks for the tip. I'm new to making patch settings but as I said I will gather some information before starting.
15:56:17  <dih> :-)
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15:59:03  <NukeBuster> dih, do you know how to remove the M from the version number?
15:59:17  <hylje> ./configure --revision=..
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15:59:37  <NukeBuster> Ok thanks.
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16:02:05  <peter1138> that's no how i do it ;)
16:02:07  <peter1138> +t
16:02:37  <hylje> either way
16:04:00  <NukeBuster> peter1138, how do you do it than?
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16:10:44  <dih> make REVISION= perhaps
16:17:10  <fjb> Hm, 22 downloads of my patched executable and still no complain. What did I do wrong?
16:17:41  <hylje> you did it too well
16:18:04  <fjb> I guess not. I bet none of the downloaders could use it.
16:18:46  <frosch123> fjb: I feel the same about the 77 downloads of grf2html 0.4 :)
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16:19:12  <fjb> frosch123: But that is working, isn't it?
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16:19:20  <Prof_Frink> fjb: Or you trojaned it to wipe people's hard drives so they can't get in t'internet to complain.
16:19:28  *** TinoM [] has joined #openttd
16:19:31  <frosch123> At least for me :)
16:19:36  <Ammler> fjb: what patch?
16:19:58  <fjb> No, no, nothing like that. It just doesn't work on the most often used OSs. :-)
16:19:58  *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies]
16:20:20  <fjb> Ammler: The passenger destinations patzch.
16:20:35  <fjb> I applied it to r11891
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16:21:36  <fjb> This thread, last reply: :-)
16:21:51  <frosch123> fjb: It is not fair to hide the extention in an zip.
16:22:17  <fjb> The forum software didn't let me upload the unziped executable.
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16:23:57  <fjb> And the zipfile has one third of the size of the executable.
16:24:08  <frosch123> What about .gz?
16:24:40  <fjb> Hm, I thought more people will have an unzip.
16:24:46  <Prof_Frink> frosch123: Well, if it's a winders executable zip makes most sense
16:25:20  <frosch123> lol, but it is a linux executable :)
16:25:30  <fjb> No, it isn't.
16:25:51  <frosch123> what else?
16:26:04  <fjb> FreeBSd ofcourse. What else?
16:26:17  <Prof_Frink> GNU Hird?
16:26:31  <Ammler> :P
16:26:41  <Prof_Frink> (Or Hurd, depending which half of the acronym you prefer)
16:27:00  <fjb> Did that ever reach an usable stage?
16:27:04  *** Mucht [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:28:03  <fjb> But I fulfilled the request. Is everybody using FreeBSD? Or why did nobody complain? Strange people...
16:28:54  <hylje> :o
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16:30:00  <fjb> Oh, three of you did download it. :-)
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16:39:38  <ln-> does someone use Evolution as email program?
16:40:20  <Prof_Frink> How... gnomish.
16:40:25  <dih> lol
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16:42:45  <ln-> raise your hands, i won't ask anything hard
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16:42:59  <ln-> in fact, i won't ask anything.
16:43:04  <Yorick> hello
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17:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... anyone experience with KDE 4?
17:28:44  <LA[ill]> almost...
17:28:56  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: I'm using it as my main desktop
17:29:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> would you recommend switching?
17:29:34  <LA[ill]> definatly :D
17:29:54  <Prof_Frink> Depends. The plasma panel lacks a configurer atm, but it's definitley faster.
17:30:06  <Prof_Frink> And the compsting effects are shiny.
17:30:26  <ln-> LA[ill]: how many 'a' letters in "definitely"?
17:30:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> same number as in "sick" ;)
17:31:11  <LA[ill]> definatly
17:31:31  <Prof_Frink> LA[ill]: Nope, try again.
17:31:37  <LA[ill]> come on.. I'm ill, you have to live with me making typos, when I'm ill...
17:31:57  <ln-> and even odd punctuation?
17:32:13  <LA[ill]> definitely....  three a letters.
17:32:21  <LA[ill]> ln-: of course
17:33:37  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: If your distro has suitable packages you should be able to install it alongside KDE3
17:34:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm using SuSE, i'd beat them senseless if they didn't offer packages ;)
17:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i read somewhere that i could have them in parallel
17:42:10  <Prof_Frink> has destructions.
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17:42:33  <Wolf01> hello
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17:46:44  <murray> hi
17:47:33  <LA[ill]> hello murray
17:47:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> hmm... germany wants to introduce regional TLDs, like ".berlin" or ".bayern"
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17:47:51  <Prof_Frink> How fail.
17:48:20  <murray> hi LA :)
17:48:49  <murray> "How fail", well put
17:49:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> does that have a deeper meaning i should be aware about?
17:50:50  <Prof_Frink> Not really, just that the germs are fail
17:50:54  *** dih is now known as dihedral
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17:51:15  <murray> not all of them of course
17:51:20  *** dih [] has joined #openttd
17:51:46  <murray> seeing as "zuHause" sounds suspiciously german
17:51:58  <dih> :-)
17:52:19  <murray> 8)
17:52:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> i got to admire your deductive skills :p
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17:53:07  <dih> hehe
17:53:30  <murray> ^^
17:53:42  <murray> seems my 5 year of german torture in school wasn't in vain :p
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17:55:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> how do you get to 5 years? it's an awfully odd number (literally)
17:56:25  <Prof_Frink> What's so awful about odd numbers?
17:56:32  <dih> Eddi: just as odd as any other odd number
17:56:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't know... it's just odd...
17:56:47  <dih> of course it's odd
17:56:52  <UnderBuilder> why I always get connection lost when I try to join a server?
17:56:56  <dih> what would you expect an odd number to be?
17:56:57  <murray> good point actually
17:57:01  <Prof_Frink> Actually, 5 is against the golden rule of accounting
17:57:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> i've had 8 years of english, 4 years of french and 2 years of spanish
17:57:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> all even...
17:57:15  <murray> was supposed to have 3 years on the last school but since i had 3 on the first i needed only 2
17:57:44  <Prof_Frink> I did 2 years of german iirc
17:58:04  <Prof_Frink> And lots of years of French
17:58:07  <UnderBuilder> why I always get connection lost when I try to join a server?
17:58:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> the experience was that horrifying that you try to forget it? :)
17:58:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> UnderBuilder: because you lost connection?
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17:58:35  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: If by "the experience" you mean school
17:58:49  <UnderBuilder> that happens with 1024x1024 games
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17:59:04  <dih> i had 13 years of school - aahhhh help - an odd number
17:59:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> dih: you poor thing
17:59:24  <dih> ^^
17:59:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> i've had 12
17:59:32  <LA[ill]> dih, you repeated some classes?
17:59:34  <LA[ill]> :D
17:59:45  <LA[ill]> I will have 12 (4 yrs more)
17:59:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, 13 years is standard in west germany
17:59:53  <murray> about half of your sentences contain an odd number of characters! :o
17:59:55  <Prof_Frink> And in .uk
17:59:58  <dih> yes - but i quit after grade 11
18:00:00  <dih> ^^
18:00:01  <LA[ill]> aww.. how sad (not really)
18:00:17  <LA[ill]> dih.. but then you had to repeat two classes
18:00:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> east germans are smarter, they need 1 year less
18:00:42  *** Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
18:00:43  <glx> UnderBuilder: your computer is too slow
18:00:58  <UnderBuilder> my pc is a p4 with 768mb of ram
18:01:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> UnderBuilder: try smaller maps
18:01:17  <UnderBuilder> graphic processor gforce 5200 128mb ram
18:01:24  <dih> well - i repeated one year voluntarily
18:01:26  <UnderBuilder> with 1024x512 maps is fine
18:01:30  <dih> the other your unvoluntarily
18:01:34  <glx> GPU has no importance for openttd
18:01:43  <murray> ^^
18:01:45  <glx> only CPU
18:02:08  <dih> and it's probably a network game with a few k trains or even a few ships + yapf
18:02:26  <dih> running in windows where more resources are stolen anyway
18:02:34  *** NukeBuster [] has joined #openttd
18:02:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> and maybe the server has not pause on join set
18:02:40  <LA[ill]> especially Vista
18:03:09  <dih> it's my server i just saw
18:03:33  <UnderBuilder> yes, recently saw your server
18:03:42  <UnderBuilder> the maarteen's one is the trouble
18:03:52  *** peter1138 [~petern@] has joined #openttd
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18:03:53  <dih> :-P
18:03:57  <peter1138> BAH!
18:03:58  * dih likes hearing that ^^
18:03:59  <peter1138> err
18:04:01  <peter1138> BACK!
18:04:07  <dih> hello peter
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18:08:23  *** Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
18:08:37  <peter1138> so what's happening?
18:09:13  <LA[ill]> nothing..err serious
18:10:19  *** LA[ill] is now known as LA[happy]
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18:11:43  <murray> from ill to happy like *that* !
18:11:44  <murray> nice
18:14:11  <LA[happy]> murray: That's thanks to dih :P
18:15:34  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:16:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... these dependencies are impossible to resolve...
18:17:50  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: Do you lack the aptitude to install kde4?
18:18:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> i use YaST, but it's getting all weird on me
18:19:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11918 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp build_vehicle_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Draw engine lists at widget positions instead of fixed pixel positions
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18:29:43  <Digitalfox> So when and where is the party for revision 20000 ?? If commits keep going like this, i'm going to start joining money to make a trip and meet the guys behind open o_O
18:30:32  <Digitalfox> Oh shit i forgot i have to pay 2 trips, me and my girlfriend.. There's no way she would let go alone.. :(
18:33:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> suggestion: plan the party at Your Place (tm), then you can save the travelling costs ;)
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18:34:12  <Digitalfox> Well no Dev is from Portugal, but why not :)
18:34:46  <Digitalfox> I have a restaurant, so free food for everybody, i also own an apartment so rooms for people to sleep
18:38:03  * LA[happy] is reisntalling google earth to see trip from Tallinn to Lissabon :P
18:48:40  <peter1138> you have a restaurant? cool
18:51:26  <Belugas> do you deliver? i'll give you my address!
18:53:37  <LA[happy]> ok bye for now
18:55:52  <dih> Belugas: did i just spot a bit of humor there?
18:56:25  <Belugas> fume exhaust
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19:05:28  <UnderBuilder> should be good if the slopes were built manually, like in simutrans
19:05:55  <ln-> do i need to be italian to understand the reason of taking this screenshot: ??? wtf
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19:06:18  <ln-> not a screenshot of the error itself, but a screenshot of the error message pasted into launchpad. and this file is an attachment of that very bug report.
19:06:53  <peter1138> it's "a screenshot of the bug" (report)
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19:11:38  <Digitalfox> Belugas: I don't deliver ;) Call Pizzahut or something
19:12:22  <Digitalfox> Yeah i have a restaurant, but i tell you did, after 10 years of everyday eating restaurant food i'm sick of it.. Nothing like the food made at home
19:12:32  <Digitalfox> *tell you this
19:13:11  <Digitalfox> It's cool because i go there and chose what the cooks do for me, but again nothing like home food
19:13:43  <Belugas> boooo
19:14:57  * peter1138 ponders playing a game
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19:16:20  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: Oxford Circus
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19:18:21  <rave> pizzahut use silicone instead of cheese
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19:34:13  <Digitalfox> I would say you're joking rave but this last months so many crazy stuff a person listens, that i have to really ask you're joking right?
19:34:39  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
19:34:39  <Gonozal_VIII> !logs
19:35:01  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
19:42:06  <Phoenix_the_II>
19:42:12  <Phoenix_the_II> anyone still has this map?
19:42:17  <Phoenix_the_II> or alike
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19:52:43  <Belugas> i don't
19:52:52  <Belugas> Phoenix_the_II, have you tried to contact the poster?
19:53:08  <Phoenix_the_II> lol, it's from 2006 :p
19:53:10  <Phoenix_the_II> that post
19:53:16  <Phoenix_the_II> and the thread is dead
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19:55:07  <Phoenix_the_II> and even so, it would be standard size map
19:55:12  <Phoenix_the_II> i'll make my own alike :D
19:55:16  <Phoenix_the_II> shouldnt be that hard
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20:00:09  <ln-> can someone tell me where to find pirated software?
20:00:32  <peter1138>
20:01:08  <LA[happy]>
20:02:09  <ln-> what I'd need is either "IBM C Set ++" for OS/2, or IBM VisualAge C++ version 3 for OS/2.
20:02:12  <Gonozal_VIII> that's a bad thing to ask in a channel about open source stuff^^
20:02:32  <ln-> also links to online stores selling legal copies are ok.
20:02:58  <ln-> but i suspect those have not been best-sellers lately.
20:05:36  <Gonozal_VIII> found that thingy: IBM OS2 DCE Client including DFS for OS/2 Warp
20:05:49  <Gonozal_VIII> and that thingy: IBM DEMOpkg for OS2
20:06:01  <Gonozal_VIII> but not what you're looking for
20:06:32  <ln-> i found the same.
20:07:46  <glx> why not use gcc/g++ ?
20:09:46  <ln-> because writing the proper Makefile might be the hard part.
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20:12:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> if stuff is not "top seller" it might as well not be "top pirated" :p
20:13:18  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: Or, it might not be selling 'cause everyone's pirating it
20:13:29  <Gonozal_VIII> nah
20:13:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, because i know that many people pirating OS/2 :p
20:13:46  <Gonozal_VIII> things that get pirated a lot also sell a lot
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20:16:42  <ln-> indeed, since VisualAge C++ for OS/2 hasn't sold much lately, IT MUST BE BECAUSE it is pirated so much.
20:18:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, if all 5 OS/2 users pirate it, there is no market for sales anymore :p
20:20:04  <ln-> VisualAge C++ v4 is quite bizarre, btw.
20:20:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> in case you did not notice, OS/2 is quite bizarre...
20:20:50  <ln-> It doesn't have this concept of compiling source code to object files and then linking it to an executable.
20:21:35  <peter1138> compile all at once?
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20:22:47  <glx> gcc -o exe *.c
20:23:09  <glx> no need for a makefile ;)
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20:26:15  <ln-> peter1138: yeah. it does that so that it can optimize better, as far as i understood.
20:27:18  <ln-> makes a bit hard to convert big projects with hundreds of files for it.
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20:29:58  <peter1138> hmm
20:30:01  <peter1138> slow too, heh
20:30:34  <peter1138> what about libraries...
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20:41:22  <Gonozal_VIII> bjarni!
20:41:38  <Bjarni> deja vu
20:41:52  <Gonozal_VIII> why? never did that before...
20:42:03  <dih> someone always does
20:42:29  <Gonozal_VIII> ooooh someone kk
20:42:32  <Bjarni> everywhere I come (on IRC) people start bugging me to read diffs or code something
20:42:37  <Prof_Frink> Oh noes, it's a glitch in teh matrix
20:42:48  <Bjarni> I'm pretty sure that's what Gonozal_VIII is up to
20:43:00  <Bjarni> and he is working himself up to tell me
20:43:05  <Gonozal_VIII> when was the last time i did that?
20:43:05  <Bjarni> might take a while though
20:43:24  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
20:43:25  <Bjarni>  <Gonozal_VIII> when was the last time i did that? <-- you haven't had the guts to ask me yet
20:43:44  <Gonozal_VIII> i guess it's something big then?
20:44:14  <Bjarni> how should I know?
20:44:23  <Bjarni> you haven't told me yet
20:44:44  <Bjarni> for all I know you want to move a button two pixels to the left
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20:44:56  <Gonozal_VIII> :O
20:45:24  <Gonozal_VIII> and one pixel down
20:45:43  <dih> LOL
20:46:09  <dih> 2 steps to the left and one step back....
20:46:22  <zil> Just wanted to say, been playing open TTD non stop for the past few days (damn you, I was addicted to TTD, now about 10 years on, I am addicted to open TTD!)... and I found a little bug and did not know how to report it.... it is not major and you may know about it. Basically, if I have track and a AI has a bridge over it, when I upgrade my track to maglev, their bridge also gets upgraded... it sabatauges their train!
20:46:56  <dih> [21:45]  <Mr_Console|3> SirkoZ: another bug
20:46:56  <dih> [21:45]  <Mr_Console|3> SirkoZ: wrong vehicle/train numbers
20:46:56  <dih> [21:45]  <Mr_Console|3> SirkoZ: in the multiplayer menu
20:46:56  <dih> [21:45]  <Mr_Console|3> SirkoZ: instead of e.g. 346 trains shown, there are 2xxx (2 thousand and more)
20:46:59  <dih> known?
20:47:05  <dih> that is beta3
20:47:26  <peter1138> hmm
20:47:32  <Gonozal_VIII> yes dih, known, no zil, not known (at least by me)
20:48:48  <dih> peter's hmm lets me kinda assume otherwise...
20:49:08  <zil> well, my one is not major, been playing a while and it was the first time I saw it, completly by accident
20:49:37  <zil> but I assume that it may be abusedf in multiplayer, but it could be both ways.. build a bridge over oponnent, then upgrade it? :S not sure, not tried it that way around
20:49:43  <dih> zil: would be interesting if that still happens on a multiplayer game
20:50:03  <zil> anyway, I love the game and just want to say thanks for re-making my best game from when I was growing up!
20:50:33  <zil> want me to host quick and try?
20:50:52  <Gonozal_VIII> tile can have only one owner... maybe upgrade bridge only if bridge head gets upgraded not any tile?
20:51:38  <zil> what I did was- 1. send ALL my trains to depot, 2. drag the upgrade track from corner square to corner square...
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20:52:09  <Gonozal_VIII> well sorry... forget that...
20:52:14  <zil> I just noticed that where the AI had built bridges over my trains, their monorail, electric track and old train bridges became maglev!
20:52:24  <Gonozal_VIII> it only converts with head selected
20:52:30  <zil> not over my trains, over my tracks
20:52:58  <zil> I like the upgrade track thing... it saved me ages of work, I remember doing that by hand in the old TTD!
20:53:03  <glx> I remember me fixing something like that for articulated road vehicules
20:53:24  <glx> dih: ^^
20:53:32  <dih> yes
20:53:38  <dih> that is what i was thinking of
20:53:38  <Prof_Frink> Does the openttd upgrader upgrade depots with trains stopped inside yet?
20:53:45  <zil> what port do I need to open to host? I will quickly do a game and someone can join and we can see if it works on multi?
20:53:46  <dih> i cannot remember if it was in beta3 or not
20:53:51  <Gonozal_VIII> nope frink
20:54:07  <Prof_Frink> How silly.
20:54:19  <Gonozal_VIII> you don't need to host for that zil, there's a cheat to switch player
20:54:34  <glx> the fix should be in beta3, meaning I (or something) broke it
20:54:45  <dih> heh
20:54:50  <dih> want a save game?
20:54:57  <zil> ahh, ok, well, Ive done my bit for the community! now upgrading all my trains to maglev!
20:55:02  <glx> yes so I can try locally :)
20:55:20  <dih>
20:55:20  <peter1138> well i couldn't do it
20:55:26  <dih> latest file at the top of listing
20:55:26  <zil> bye, and thanks again for a brilliant game!
20:55:56  <dih> glx: as you can tell they are just the autosaves from my servers :-)
20:56:29  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ now i'm in coop with the ai
20:56:36  <Gonozal_VIII> it removes everything i build
20:56:43  <glx> doesn't matter :) they should have enough vehicles to see the problem
20:58:25  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: you must build like AI if you want persistant buildings :)
20:58:40  <glx> ie road depot near road stop
20:59:51  <Gonozal_VIII> no time for that, removes everything the tick after i built it^^
21:00:30  <Gonozal_VIII> just blinking sprites^^
21:01:20  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm that's strange now
21:01:42  <Gonozal_VIII> bank balance 69064 euro
21:01:49  <Gonozal_VIII> loan 100k euro
21:02:11  <Gonozal_VIII> repay 20k button says can't because that requires 100k
21:03:10  <Gonozal_VIII> even stranger... now the loan is 240k and max loan is 200k
21:03:11  <dih> you might have a cup of coffe sitting on your ctrl key
21:03:14  <Gonozal_VIII> ai cheating?
21:03:20  <dih> hehe
21:04:45  <glx> dih: hmm ok I see the problem :)
21:05:07  <glx> even "players" returns wrong train count
21:05:54  <dih> ouch
21:09:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11919 /trunk/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: Assign numbered parameters to world generator widgets to avoid separate DrawString()s, and do the same for the scenario flat-land window.
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21:13:43  <dih> glx: i was just thinking: it would _have_ to be wrong data in players
21:14:08  <glx> dih: I indeed broke something :)
21:14:09  <dih> as it reads from the same struct that the udp packets are populated with
21:14:26  <dih> revert it ^^
21:15:54  <dih> glx: my openttdlib sends udp packets to servers, and reads the response packets
21:16:07  <dih> it was in there that i noticed an issue (to high a number)
21:16:27  <dih> so the issue must be in the struct
21:16:33  <dih> correction
21:16:43  <dih> the wrong data is stored in the struct
21:16:48  <dih> not a later on calculation thing
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21:25:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11920 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix (r11844): train count was incorrect in network lobby window (and 'players' command)
21:25:55  <dih> :-)
21:26:23  <glx> I used the wrong function :)
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21:29:56  <pavel1269> gn
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21:32:05  * dih feels the presence of a beta4 arising ^^
21:32:30  <glx> why? there's only one server killer bug
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21:33:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11921 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: correct indenting and switch case line spacing.
21:33:53  <peter1138> at least
21:33:59  <peter1138> hmm
21:34:45  <peter1138> ah, yeah, mine's a client-only killer
21:35:02  <peter1138> and the other one i fixed is a 'kill-another-client' killer that was there before anyway
21:35:45  <Sacro> peter1138: so was harold shipman
21:37:50  <Belugas> gone
21:37:55  <Belugas> have a nice weekend
21:38:08  <dih> you too Belugas
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21:44:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11922 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: use MaybeBarCrossingWithSound() to bar crossing with sound
21:44:49  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe?
21:45:53  <SquireJames> hello there
21:46:36  <Prof_Frink> Evenin' squire
21:46:46  <Gonozal_VIII> prepend maybe to all functions that don't work correctly :-)
21:47:00  <SquireJames> hello there Proffessor :)
21:47:01  <peter1138> DING DING DING DING :D
21:47:14  <Prof_Frink> DONG
21:47:37  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: the function name tells me it checks if it should bar the crossing, and if it does it plays sound
21:47:45  <SquireJames> peter, you'll pay my physchiatrists bills, those clown noises are driving me mental!
21:48:11  <Gonozal_VIII> clowns do ding ding ding?
21:49:15  <SquireJames> noo, apparently he coded the UK Tramset
21:49:21  <SquireJames> but he didnt code the sounds!
21:49:30  <SquireJames> so my trams make clown car noises from toyland
21:49:33  <peter1138> There were no sounds to code!
21:49:45  <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe
21:50:10  <SmatZ> lol
21:50:39  <SquireJames> But whhhhy clown sounds! hehe
21:50:56  <glx> because it uses toyland vehicle slots
21:50:56  <Prof_Frink> Also, what level crossings go ding ding ding?
21:50:57  <SquireJames> no worries, I just need to find a good electric motor and I can make my own tramsound
21:51:08  <SquireJames> Yankee ones do Prof
21:51:12  <Prof_Frink> Most go wheewaahwheewaah
21:51:36  <Prof_Frink> The one in Poole goes DriiiiiiiiiiingDriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing
21:51:40  <SmatZ> :))))
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22:05:22  <dih> 'STR_SNOW_LINE_HEIGHT_NUM' does not exist in master file'
22:05:41  <dih> r11922
22:06:49  <SquireJames> ah ha peter, your devious plan to drive me nuts has failed!
22:06:55  <SquireJames> for I have made a tram sound
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22:09:52  <peter1138> nini
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22:20:48  <fjb> We should make an ai braindednes contest:
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22:25:21  <Gonozal_VIII> you call that bad? that rout at least works
22:25:25  <Gonozal_VIII> +e
22:25:43  <Gonozal_VIII> with 90° turns allowed...
22:26:06  <fjb> But without them allowed...
22:27:16  <Gonozal_VIII> it even got one of the double track let trains pass by thingies right
22:28:10  <Gonozal_VIII> the other doesn't have signals, probably because of the bridge
22:28:36  <fjb> It usually gets that right (beside 90° turns).
22:30:00  <Gonozal_VIII> usually it just messes up the map with random landslides, build something, removes it again, and then does nothing until its money is gone
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22:33:00  <fjb> That happens all the time because I disallow 90° turns. :-)
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22:35:00  <SquireJames> hence why i forbid the ai to use trains
22:35:31  * SquireJames decides to directly replace those horrid clown sounds
22:40:27  * SquireJames realises he just mangled his
22:40:29  <SquireJames> hmm
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22:41:52  <Desolator> @seen kaan
22:41:52  <DorpsGek> Desolator: kaan was last seen in #openttd 13 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 53 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <kaan> evening all :)
22:41:57  <Desolator> damn...
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22:45:30  <Bjarni> who was Desolator?
22:45:44  <Bjarni> have we seen him before?
22:47:02  <ln-> he was from romania.
22:47:09  <Gonozal_VIII> :S
22:47:46  <Gonozal_VIII> i think my memory is playing tricks with me
22:48:26  <Gonozal_VIII> i seem to remember desolator and seen him several times... but that can't be as i forget things all the time and bjarni doesn't
22:48:51  <Bjarni> I know I have seen him before. I was joking
22:48:58  <Gonozal_VIII> aaaah
22:49:19  <Bjarni> the thing is that he haven't been here for ages and he shows up for a moment looking for a guy who haven't been here for 3 months and disappears right away
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22:49:53  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, that's strange..
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22:51:20  <usv> have any of the devs heard of some kind of red screen syndrome in openttd? my openttd screen has a translucent red layer and so everything is reddish :|
22:51:51  <Nukebuster> Is it just openttd?
22:52:00  <Gonozal_VIII> did you change some grfs?
22:52:20  <Bjarni> is it red or pink?
22:52:35  <usv> I have not changed anything, the problem is also with the game Maelstrom
22:52:38  <usv> red
22:52:45  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm
22:52:45  <usv> and the strange thing is..
22:53:00  <Nukebuster> It's not outside the game?
22:53:02  <glx> linux and beryl or something like that?
22:53:04  <usv> that if I take a screenshot with import, it hasn't got the red layer
22:53:13  <usv> only the game window
22:53:21  <usv> I'm running on fluxbox
22:53:35  <usv> I have to take a screenshot with my digi-cam
22:53:44  <Gonozal_VIII> very strange
22:53:47  <Nukebuster> perhaps you have changed the colors for the overlaymixer?
22:54:26  <Gonozal_VIII> maelstrom uses the graphics card and openttd doesn't
22:54:36  <usv> I deleted .openttd , effects are the same
22:54:45  <usv> I'll take a pic now
22:54:55  <Nukebuster> doesnt sdl use the graphics card to create an overlay?
22:55:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11923 /trunk/src/lang/ (36 files): -Cleanup: Remove strings removed from english.txt in r11919
22:55:48  <Nukebuster> If I change the color correction on my video driver for the overlay, I get the same effect.
22:55:59  <glx> usv: the problem is not in openttd, it's something on your system
22:56:10  <usv> glx: ok
22:56:25  <usv> glx: I though that also, just wanted to ask you guys
22:56:50  <Nukebuster> perhaps the easiest thing to do is just update/reinstall your graphics driver...
22:57:15  <usv> hmm
22:57:28  <Nukebuster> it should reset it to defaults....
22:57:31  <Bjarni> usv: the fact that other apps/games are affected should indicate that it's an OS issue not a game specific issue
22:57:47  <Nukebuster> Your desktop isn't colored?
22:58:23  <Gonozal_VIII> i guess he would have noticed it if everything else was red too...
22:58:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> what is a colour?
22:58:43  <Nukebuster> ingame...
22:58:47  <usv> I'll post a pic, hold on
22:58:56  <Nukebuster> is it with video aswell?
22:59:23  <Gonozal_VIII> aaand what about game in fullscreen and windowed mode?
23:00:40  <usv>
23:01:02  <Bjarni> wow
23:01:03  <Gonozal_VIII> that's very red
23:01:05  <Bjarni> that looks really odd
23:01:15  <Nukebuster> the other 2 colors aren't drawn :S
23:01:25  <Bjarni> usv: are you sure you are not using some USSR grf?
23:01:34  <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe
23:01:35  <Nukebuster> but does this also happen if you play a video?
23:01:43  <murray> 00:01 <@Bjarni> wow
23:01:47  <Bjarni> <Nukebuster> the other 2 colors aren't drawn :S <-- yeah... it sure looks like it
23:01:47  <murray> i agree: over 124 irssi windows!!
23:01:57  <glx> I'm quite sure it's a conflict with beryl/compiz/whatever
23:02:09  <Bjarni> murray: 124????? are they evil all of them?
23:02:25  <usv> Bjarni: I got my gfx's from a friend, I don't know where he has gotten it
23:02:40  <murray> actually, looking at the other side there's up to 357
23:02:41  <murray> ALL EVIL
23:02:44  <Bjarni> maybe from the guy who is looking for it now :p
23:02:51  <Nukebuster> hardware shouldn't be the problem... as not all is red... just the game
23:03:00  <usv> my ttcd is some 500 km north of here, so I can't get the original graphics
23:03:01  *** |Bastiaan| [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies]
23:03:03  <murray> openttd window looks evil too..
23:03:28  <Prof_Frink> usv: The internet is a marvellous thing.
23:03:42  <Prof_Frink> There are over 3407 topic on
23:03:56  <Nukebuster> usv, if you play a video is it red too?
23:04:20  <usv> Nukebuster: no, everything else works just ok, but openttd and Maelstrom
23:04:28  <usv> I've googled like a week now
23:04:43  <Gonozal_VIII> and ttd?
23:04:47  <Bjarni> this window looks a bit like when I had endian issues in the cocoa video driver (this bug was never committed). It mirrored the 32 bit graphics so it switched the values for red and green. It also switched the values for alpha and blue. Changing alpha didn't really do anything but it mean that blue was stuck on 0xFF
23:04:52  <Bjarni> so the game got the blues
23:05:19  <Nukebuster> and you did try to reinstall your graphics drivers?
23:05:28  <Bjarni> screenshots were normal though
23:05:46  <Bjarni> usv: I bet your screenshots are normal as well ;)
23:05:56  <Gonozal_VIII> he already wrote that
23:05:59  <Nukebuster> he said they weren't
23:06:04  <usv> Nukebuster: tried with two kernels and two different xorg version, same effect
23:06:19  <usv> Bjarni: they are normal, yes
23:06:33  <usv> might this be an issue with SDL then?
23:07:01  <Bjarni> that's possible
23:07:13  <Nukebuster> are there color correction settings for sdl?
23:08:11  <Sacro> BBBBBBJARNI!
23:09:14  <usv> Nukebuster: hmm, I don't know about that
23:09:19  <Gonozal_VIII> on windows i've got the option to run the game in 256 colour mode.. maybe something like that could help somehow?
23:10:01  <usv> I'd had to configure my xorg to 256 colours
23:10:03  <usv> brrr
23:10:18  <Nukebuster> :P
23:10:49  <Nukebuster> I'd rather try reinstalling sdl...
23:11:02  <glx> or upgrade it
23:11:20  <Bjarni> <Sacro> BBBBBBJARNI! <-- haha... it failed to highlight :P
23:11:46  <dih> hehe
23:11:47  <Sacro> :(
23:11:50  * Sacro cuddles Bjarni
23:12:03  <dih> how about you guys ge a room
23:12:08  <murray> lol
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23:12:14  <murray> he's just jelaus
23:12:59  <usv> reinstalled sdl, no effect
23:13:18  <Gonozal_VIII> 256 colourified?^^
23:13:36  <Bjarni> I wouldn't mind if Sacro started to fancy dih instead
23:13:48  <dih> I WOULD
23:14:01  <usv> Gonozal_VIII: configured xorg.conf, restarting it now..
23:14:08  <Bjarni> usv: I'm wondering. What happens if you set the number of colours to 32 bit?
23:15:35  <usv> Bjarni: I think I have not enough video memory for that, but I'll try
23:16:23  <Bjarni> you can reduce the resolution
23:16:29  <Bjarni> it's just a test
23:16:55  <Sacro> it's only a model
23:16:59  <Gonozal_VIII> what happened with 256 colours?
23:17:07  <Bjarni> well
23:17:14  <Gonozal_VIII> models are too thin
23:17:53  <Bjarni> I just got the idea that it only stores the red channel because it's set to 8 bit colours. If it's set to 32 bit then it's possible that it can manage all 3 channels
23:18:03  *** Zothar [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox]]
23:18:23  <Bjarni> like for some reason it demands 8 bits for each colour due to some weird settings or default setting somewhere
23:18:55  <Gonozal_VIII> well... no matter what it is, it is something weird that i've never seen anywhere else
23:19:07  <Bjarni> I have never seen it before either
23:19:09  <glx> like palette index used as red
23:19:30  <Bjarni> so I just make random guesses at what could go wrong
23:19:46  <Gonozal_VIII> i thought that with changing to 256 colours the remapping algorithm could possibly fix it somehow
23:19:57  <Bjarni> <glx> like palette index used as red <-- I wondered about that one as well... I just don't know how to quickly verify that one
23:20:36  <Bjarni>  <Gonozal_VIII> i thought that with changing to 256 colours the remapping algorithm could possibly fix it somehow <--- remember that something went wrong. It's not a question if it's possible to get it right but it's a question of what went wrong
23:20:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i think i'm gonna hopelessly screw up my system now...
23:20:50  <Bjarni> windows?
23:21:12  <usv> I cant change the resolution, damn
23:21:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> what kind of person do you take me for?
23:21:23  <Sacro> a german D:
23:21:48  <Gonozal_VIII> it's bad to always assume the worst sacro..
23:22:47  <usv> how can I see the effective colour setting inside X?
23:25:10  <glx> -->
23:25:20  <SmatZ> scary!
23:25:23  <glx> so it's not that ;)
23:25:43  <Gonozal_VIII> blooood everywheeeere
23:27:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> i could imagine that the graphics layer just treats the 256 colours as 32bpp, so it gets an 1:1 mapping from palette index to red colour
23:27:32  <SmatZ> reminds me of Doom III :)
23:28:00  <Gonozal_VIII> then running it in 256 colours would work :-)
23:28:22  <Bjarni> glx: that was a good test. It clearly showed what the issue isn't
23:28:30  <Bjarni> which is part of the way to what it is
23:28:37  <Bjarni> the long way though :/
23:29:19  <Prof_Frink> Could it be realted to the phases of the moon?
23:29:48  <Gonozal_VIII> 75% moon atm
23:30:00  <Bjarni> I think it's due to the rain
23:30:05  <Bjarni> wait until it stops
23:30:13  <Bjarni> and then it will be all blue
23:30:38  <glx> -->
23:30:43  <glx> more like that
23:30:43  <Sacro> grrr
23:30:49  <Sacro> a 1 cubit wide screen is hard work
23:30:55  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: "75% moon"? You've wasted a perfect opportunity to use the word "Gibbous".
23:30:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> blue is not a basic colour ;)
23:31:00  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: it is
23:31:27  <Gonozal_VIII> that's because i have absolutely no idea what gibbous is
23:31:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> glx: is that what i suggested?
23:31:42  <Bjarni> yeah... it's the two other colours that are killed for some reason
23:31:49  <Bjarni> the question is why
23:32:11  <Gonozal_VIII> that's not it
23:32:12  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: The moon between half and full is Waxing Gibbous, and between full and half is Waning Gibbous.
23:32:15  <Bjarni> usv: look at your GPU. Does it say "made in China"?
23:32:33  <glx> but on the photo the red is less red, it's more like a red overlay
23:32:34  <usv> now I got this to 256-mode, looks shitty
23:33:07  <usv> this is some ancient Neomagic Corporation NM2360 [MagicMedia 256ZX] on an old THinkpad 600X
23:33:13  <usv> lets start openttd...
23:33:19  <glx> usv: try latest beta (just in case)
23:33:22  <Gonozal_VIII> in his photo the buttoons are darker than the menu background
23:33:25  <usv> perfect colours...
23:33:26  <Gonozal_VIII> -o
23:34:20  <usv> the colours get distorted if I move the cursor out of the window
23:34:35  <usv> but yes, perfect colours upon starting in 256-mode
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23:36:15  <Gonozal_VIII> should work with fullscreen then
23:36:57  <usv> I silenced the flash on my camera when taking the picture, it may affect a bit to colours, but it looks a lot like in
23:38:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> what happened to the time when "screenshots" were not actually pictures of a screen shot with a camera?
23:38:09  <Gonozal_VIII> aren't the buttons/background colours inverted?
23:38:29  <Gonozal_VIII> in his screenshots the colours are right ;-)
23:39:09  <glx> usv: do you have any "add transparency to windows" thing?
23:39:24  <usv> Gonozal_VIII: yes, it seems
23:39:59  <usv> glx: no, always hated 'em because they take more cycles
23:41:30  <usv> I'll try 640x480@32bpp
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23:46:43  <Bjarni> <-- wtf... somebody is tracking my movements without telling me
23:46:56  <Bjarni> I know this is public available info but still
23:47:07  <Bjarni> it came up when I tried to google for openttd
23:47:16  <Bjarni> looks like I have some fans out there
23:47:22  <usv> xorg driver NEOMAGIC does not support 32bpp :(
23:47:48  <Sacro> nvidia doesn't like 32bpp either
23:48:38  <Prof_Frink> Yay, neomagic
23:48:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> usually graphics drivers run in 24bpp
23:49:52  <Prof_Frink> 00:04.0 VGA compatible controller: Neomagic Corporation NM2160 [MagicGraph 128XD]
23:50:11  <usv> XD
23:51:10  <Prof_Frink> openttd certainly wasn't red when I played it on this machine
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23:51:41  <glx> and you seem to have less video memory than him Prof_Frink
23:52:32  <Prof_Frink> less of everything probably
23:52:46  * Prof_Frink looks up 600x on thinkwiki
23:53:21  <Gonozal_VIII> aaaah, the problem is that your digicam is broken... and you've probably got brain cancer in the visual part that results in the same... perfectly logical
23:53:24  <Prof_Frink> Yep, slower processor, smaller screen, less ram
23:53:44  <glx> I just compared 256ZX and 128XD to make my guess :)
23:54:02  <Prof_Frink> I *do* have a larger hard drive, but that's 'cause I had one spare
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23:56:59  <Prof_Frink> cpu MHz		: 166.642
23:58:07  <Sacro>
23:58:10  <Sacro> quite cool
23:58:28  <Sacro> Bjarni: you have .5k commits
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