Log for #openttd on 24th February 2008:
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00:26:12  <Wolf01> 'night
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08:25:43  <Wolf01> hello
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08:26:39  <yorick> hello
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10:27:31  <Yorick> dbg: [misc] Your script made an error: the index 'FindRoute' does not exist :(
10:31:30  <Yorick> hmm...why isn't that pathfinderStupid working
10:31:44  <Yorick> I know it wouldn't be connecting things
10:31:53  <Yorick> biut it should not throw me an error
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10:42:34  <LordAzamath> hello
10:43:17  <Yorick> hello
10:43:24  * Yorick needs some help with NoAI
10:44:25  <LordAzamath> It seems I never become fond of TTDP... I just tried to start a new game, but then I found building rail very slow when compared to autorail tool in Open...
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11:15:37  <Yorick> how about making chat possible in Single Player?
11:16:18  <Yorick> chatting with AI's :)
11:16:19  <Wolf01> yes, why not, and why not make the AI able to reply at you?
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11:16:30  <Yorick> NoAI :)
11:17:28  <Wolf01> i already had some troubles with megahal, he started to think and tried to take control of my pc
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11:54:58  <Yorick> is there anyone that can help me with NoAI?
11:55:11  <Gekz> No.
11:55:34  <Yorick> is there anyone that can slap TrueBrain awake then?
11:55:46  <Yorick> he's back into NoAI for the moment
11:56:27  <SpComb> don't think he does IRC anymore
11:56:56  <SpComb> oh, he does, but just not this channel
11:57:00  <SpComb> /whois TrueBrain shows #openttd.noai
11:57:11  <Yorick> I tried contacting him on openttd.noai
11:57:50  <ln-> send him snail mail.
11:58:21  <Yorick> huh?
11:59:33  <ln->
11:59:43  <Yorick> too slow
12:02:33  <Gonozal_VIII> tnt post? sounds dangerous
12:03:23  <Yorick> hehe
12:04:06  <Yorick> it was first PTT Post, then TPG Post, and now TNT Post
12:04:11  <Yorick> they can't choose the name
12:04:25  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know what language that is but i can read a lot of it :-)
12:04:39  <Yorick> dutch?
12:05:04  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe
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12:20:38  <blathijs> Gonozal_VIII: Dutch and German are pretty similar :-)
12:21:33  <globester> alike, not similar :/
12:21:45  <Yorick> :/
12:24:39  <Yorick> ah please...there must be someone that can help me with NoAI
12:24:54  <Gekz> Dutch and german are not similar
12:25:00  <Gekz> they are as similar as German and English
12:25:04  <Gekz> Germanic.
12:25:05  <Gekz> that's it.
12:25:38  <globester> do you think sim city 3000 will work on my poor laptop? :/
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12:26:08  <Gekz> lol
12:27:09  <blathijs> Actually, I really can't find any notable difference in meaning between alike and similar...
12:27:48  <blathijs> Gekz: And actually, German and Dutch are more similar than English and Dutch at any rate...
12:28:04  <Gekz> blathijs: depends on what you call similar.
12:28:18  <blathijs> Easy to understand one if you know the other :-)
12:28:31  <Gekz> lol
12:28:40  <globester> i think similar also includes grammar
12:28:54  <globester> which is quite different between dutch and german
12:28:58  <blathijs> Perhaps "Easy" isn't exactly the right work, though
12:29:09  <globester> but most european languages are similar
12:29:14  <blathijs> Then I should say similar in vocabulary
12:29:16  <blathijs> :-)
12:29:19  <globester> exceptions being magyar and finnish
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12:30:33  <Gonozal_VIII> magyar?
12:31:22  <Gonozal_VIII> ah, hungarian
12:31:51  <blathijs> Is Magyar the Hungarian name for Hungarian?
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12:33:50  <globester> i think it's the name of the people living there
12:33:52  <globester> atleast historically
12:34:05  <globester> you'll see them as magyar on older maps
12:34:16  <globester> atleast up to 1919 i think
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12:53:28  <Ammller> Hey, is there a general switch to bring more brightness in GRFs?
12:53:34  <Ammller> OpenGFX seems so darf
12:53:40  <Ammller> dark
12:54:23  <Gonozal_VIII> change the brightness of your screen...
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12:56:05  <peter1138> Redraw the graphics so they're not so dark...
12:56:17  <Ammller> thanks anyway :P
12:56:20  <peter1138> (...and brown)
12:56:45  <Ammller> then, this is wanted?
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12:57:53  <peter1138> Is what wanted?
12:58:16  <Ammller> that openGFX are much darker/browner then original?
12:58:54  <peter1138> I assume it is, as that is how they have been drawn.
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14:22:55  <DaleStan> <LordAzamath> It seems I never become fond of TTDP... I just tried to start a new game, but then I found building rail very slow <-- Just drag the four real rail-tools. No need for a fifth one. (and learn your [1]-[4] keyboard shortcuts)
14:26:19  <Gonozal_VIII> keyboard shortcuts suck
14:27:46  <Gonozal_VIII> can't support my head with my hand while using them
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14:35:07  <LordAzamath> DaleStan: I quite realised those 1-4 keyboard buttons.. But it's easier to not have them all, and then I realised I hadn't allowed building on steep slopes, so I quit :P
14:35:38  <LordAzamath> ok.. bbl
14:39:38  <DaleStan> No, it's much easier to have them. Autorail requires too much precision in your clicking when you want just a single tile of track.
14:43:53  <Gonozal_VIII> so?
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14:44:26  <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have to use it if you're not able to move your mouse precisely enough
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14:54:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> i occasionally get misplaced rail bits, but autorail is definitely easier than 1-4 keyboard shortcuts
14:54:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's worse with autoroad, because that does not show the road piece you are going to build
14:55:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> that should really be fixed before 0.6
14:56:22  <Gonozal_VIII> yep
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15:17:15  * peter1138 does not use autorail, heh
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15:19:38  <moa3333> Hello, i like openttd very much. I have Ubuntu Hardy amd64.  Could you release a deb package for amd64 please for the last beta like you did for the previous ones or give me some hints on how to do it myself?
15:20:30  <Yorick> svn co svn://
15:20:37  <Yorick> ./configure && make
15:21:11  <Sacro> Yorick: that is not the beta
15:21:21  <toet> jkpl;
15:21:31  <Sacro> beta is svn://
15:21:33  <Sacro> i think :s
15:22:08  <Sacro> blathijs: who does the amd64 debs ?
15:22:08  <blathijs> yes, it is
15:22:18  <Sacro> zomg, he's actually here :)
15:22:29  <blathijs> Sacro: I do, as soon as my laptop is repaired :-)
15:23:01  <moa3333> ok i'll try that
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15:24:42  <blathijs> moa3333: You are probably better off doing dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -b instead of ./configure && make
15:25:36  <blathijs> moa3333: Requires you to install dpkg-buildpackage and do an "apt-get build-dep openttd"
15:26:01  <blathijs> Then do "svn export svn://" to get the source
15:26:31  <blathijs> Then do "cd 0.6.0-beta4; mv os/debian debian" to get the debian packaging info in the right place
15:26:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: i have a request for the next patch pack version, split up the new files from the patched files
15:26:50  <blathijs> Then "dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -b" should build a .deb for you
15:27:35  <Sacro> how complex
15:27:46  <Sacro> Arch you just grab the PKGBUILD and type "makepkg"
15:28:01  <Gonozal_VIII> somebody should just add blank files with those names to trunk^^
15:28:20  <Sacro> ?why
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15:28:38  <Gonozal_VIII> because that problem would be solved then
15:28:50  <Gonozal_VIII> revert would blankify them again
15:28:54  <moa3333> blathijs blathijs ok
15:29:28  <UnderBuilder> anyone wants to do blankish ttd files for the OpenGFX proyect?
15:29:44  <blathijs> Sacro: The mv step is mainly because openttd policy needs all os-specific stuff in os/
15:29:50  <UnderBuilder> now there is only trg1r but what about the others?
15:29:58  <peter1138> UnderBuilder, simple enough for you to create one
15:30:09  <blathijs> Sacro: And by default, Debian isn't supposed to building from source :-)
15:30:26  <UnderBuilder> but how I create a blank
15:30:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> touch
15:30:37  <peter1138> "touch"
15:31:05  <UnderBuilder> I'm on windows...
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15:31:37  <Yorick> so?
15:31:37  <blathijs> right click -> create new -> text document
15:31:47  <blathijs> then rename to
15:31:58  <Sacro> blathijs: neither is Arch :)
15:32:13  <Sacro> but it is designed in such a way that you can if you so wish
15:32:16  <blathijs> You'll have to have "hide extentions for known file types" turned off :-)
15:32:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> i had "touch" even on Novell DOS
15:32:27  <blathijs> Sacro: Ah, never used Arch :-)
15:32:32  <Sacro> so if you want to do -Omg-Optimizd and -funroll-loops
15:32:33  <Sacro> you can
15:32:46  <Sacro> its a very lovely distro
15:32:56  <Vikthor> Sacro: Isn't PKGBUILD something alike gentoos ebuild?
15:33:44  <Sacro> similar idea
15:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> gnah... i don't have 7z...
15:35:14  <UnderBuilder> I did so, but the game crashed while I was testing in toyland
15:35:15  <Vikthor> Then this  -- (16:27:46) Sacro: Arch you just grab the PKGBUILD and type "makepkg" -- does not hold, making .deb is more like writing ebuild/PKGBUILD
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15:36:19  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2:
15:36:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, and sourceforge does work horribly in konqueror
15:36:52  <blathijs> Vikthor: No, that would be building a debian/ subdir
15:36:54  <Sacro> Vikthor: why is it?
15:37:09  <Sacro> PKGBUILD, e-build, spec file
15:37:11  <Sacro> all the same idea
15:37:18  <Sacro> but PKGBUILD is the easiest format i've yet seen
15:37:32  <Vikthor> blathijs: Ahh yes, my fault
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15:37:50  <UnderBuilder> the game crashes when I use blank grf files
15:37:58  <Sacro> ooh, there is an openttd-beta 0.6.0_beta4-1
15:38:18  <blathijs> Sacro: hmm?
15:38:18  <Sacro> <- look how easy that is
15:38:34  <Sacro> blathijs: arch has openttd, openttd-beta and openttd-svn
15:38:35  <blathijs> ah, the arch package :-)
15:38:43  <Sacro> all have different binaries and different /usr/share locations
15:41:00  <blathijs> ah, that's kinda nice :-)
15:41:53  <Sacro> yep
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15:58:41  <moa3333> ok thank you, i have finished creatind the deb package
15:58:52  <blathijs> nice :-)
15:59:03  <moa3333> if you want i can sent it to you, i hope it works on debain, it works on Ubuntu Hardy
15:59:54  <blathijs> moa3333: I'll just wait until my laptop comes back. I build the official deps in a clean Debian stable chroot, which ensures the dependencies are correct
16:01:02  <moa3333> ok
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16:01:25  <moa3333> anyway, i love this game!
16:03:00  <globester> i dislike vista, it won't let me play dos games :(
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16:04:47  <Yorick> google is not letting me search for A*
16:05:28  <Sacro> Astar
16:06:10  <Yorick> already got it
16:07:20  <glx> globester: try dosbox
16:07:49  <globester> yeah, that works, but it won't let me install sc2000 :(
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16:09:25  <Gonozal_VIII> sc2000 is a dos game?
16:10:12  <ln-> yes.
16:10:15  <globester> it's from 93
16:10:27  <glx> there's a win95 version
16:13:22  <globester> i might try mortal kombat
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16:29:22  <UnderBuilder> why openttd crashes when I use blank grf files?
16:30:09  <peter1138> Because it expects a GRF file.
16:30:32  <peter1138> can be an empty file, but the GRFs must be formatted correctly.
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16:40:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> UnderBuilder: decode the original grf, replace the pcx with an empty one of same size, reencode grf
16:40:56  <UnderBuilder> hmmm... is that legal?
16:40:59  <LordAzamath> Eddi|zuHause2: Then he'll get white screen :P
16:41:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> UnderBuilder: you can also write up all sprite sizes by hand...
16:41:46  <LordAzamath> UnderBuilder: Try this:
16:42:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> LordAzamath: he is trying to do the same for the other files
16:42:20  <UnderBuilder> that's only trg1r.grf
16:42:23  <LordAzamath> Easy..
16:42:43  <LordAzamath> decode, open pcx in Gimp
16:42:55  <LordAzamath> select all, and unselect the white area
16:43:05  <LordAzamath> and then fill evrything with 0000ff
16:43:26  <LordAzamath> All sprites get transparent
16:43:37  <glx> LordAzamath: no need to unselect white area ;)
16:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is almost exactly what i said... only a dozen times more complicated
16:43:46  <LordAzamath> It looks nicer
16:44:15  <LordAzamath> btw, I've got a problem
16:44:20  <LordAzamath> actionF
16:44:22  <glx> you can redecode it after to gave it nice ;)
16:44:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the palette entry is relevant, not the RGB value
16:44:52  <LordAzamath> Eddi|zuHause2: But that doesn't matter that palette entry is blue?
16:45:02  <LordAzamath> it's just easier for me to say that way
16:45:33  <glx> what's your problem with actionF ?
16:46:09  <LordAzamath>
16:46:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: you said you have a grf for invisible fences, is that available somewhere?
16:46:21  <peter1138> Sprite sizes and offsets are not important...
16:46:23  <LordAzamath> I defined one big set
16:46:28  <Gonozal_VIII> i what huh?
16:46:41  <LordAzamath> and want to use it like 'set''-''set'
16:46:44  <peter1138> So you can make a replacement GRF that is not based on the original at all...
16:46:54  <LordAzamath> whereas the set is the same
16:46:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: yes, i am pretty sure it was you
16:47:06  <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. transrapid set does that... but that's just replacing the fence sprites with empty ones
16:47:08  <LordAzamath> But it doesn't randomize for the second time..
16:47:21  <Gonozal_VIII> -set
16:47:30  <Gonozal_VIII> transrapid track grf thingy^^
16:47:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> do you have a standalone version of that?
16:48:19  <Gonozal_VIII> patch graphics section in the forum..
16:48:48  <Gonozal_VIII>
16:51:07  <LordAzamath> to put it into other words... I have defined a bunch of names like this abc, where b sometimes is and sometimes isn't (empty). For example it comes up Turi. Now I want to make some names with - mark too.. But it always comes Turi-Turi in that way not for example Turi-Viljandi ...
16:51:20  <LordAzamath> abc-abc
16:51:33  <LordAzamath> It doesn't randomize twice..
16:51:53  <LordAzamath> To get that effect, I should define whole list twice...
16:52:01  <LordAzamath> so abc-def
16:52:17  <LordAzamath> But that's twice the size and I hope there are better ways
16:52:34  <glx> LordAzamath: each name uses only one uint32 value
16:52:54  <LordAzamath> which means?
16:53:00  <glx> the "randomisation" is based on bit start and bit count
16:53:20  <glx> so abc will always give the same result
16:53:46  <LordAzamath> but every time activated, it gives different results...
16:54:02  <LordAzamath> Is there a way then to have multiple IDs for one set?
16:54:19  <LordAzamath> Or do I have to have duplicates for that?
16:56:29  <glx> each part will give the same text for a given uint32
16:56:38  <LordAzamath> I really don't want to define it twice :(
16:57:02  <glx> it's the only way, and it should use different bits for the second definition
16:57:17  <glx> else you'll get the same text
16:57:28  <LordAzamath> All actions have used different bits atm..
16:57:36  <LordAzamath> All actionFs
16:57:41  <LordAzamath> in that file
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16:58:10  <glx> but when you reuse 0a 0b and 0c, they reuse the same bits and give the same result
16:58:15  <LordAzamath> But how many bits are there avilable at all? 32?
16:58:21  <glx> yes 32
16:58:30  <LordAzamath> but that's bad...
16:58:46  <glx> the town name is this 32bit number
16:59:03  <LordAzamath> Because I have already used 23 bits
16:59:04  <peter1138> 2^32 town names should be enough for everyone!
16:59:20  <LordAzamath> or I'm done something wrong
16:59:21  <peter1138> 23 seems rather high...
16:59:38  <peter1138> Well, depends how many options you have :)
16:59:41  <LordAzamath>
16:59:44  <LordAzamath> many!
17:00:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... my grfcodec stopped working...
17:00:11  <LordAzamath> Eddi|zuHause2: ??
17:00:17  <glx> 3d 00 06 should be enough for the first set
17:00:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not output anything
17:00:49  <peter1138> LordAzamath, that only need 16 bits...
17:01:15  <glx> then 0B 07 04
17:01:21  <LordAzamath> glx, before renum complained, but I'll see now, maybe I can optimize :)
17:02:13  <glx> 0x3d = 11 1101 so 6 bits are enough :)
17:02:23  <LordAzamath> :)
17:02:54  <UnderBuilder> I am on windows, I only have got mspaint
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17:03:59  <LordAzamath> ok.. all others are minimized..
17:04:10  <LordAzamath> and that still gives me 22 bits used...
17:04:14  <peter1138> UnderBuilder, context?
17:04:44  <UnderBuilder> and last version of gimp for windows is outdated
17:05:32  <glx> and?
17:05:43  <glx> it's still works
17:07:37  <LordAzamath> hmm.. now I seem to have only* 20 bits.. :(
17:09:07  <glx> each abc uses 16 bits
17:10:00  <glx> you can have def using the other 16 bits
17:11:36  <LordAzamath> but then I have to change the current one to use only 16 bits.. After a small recalculation, it uses 21 currently..
17:12:18  <LordAzamath> I know one part, where I could get one bit :P
17:12:24  <glx> hmm right a itself is 16 bits
17:12:52  <LordAzamath> WAIT
17:13:01  <glx> b is the - part
17:13:10  <LordAzamath> no, don't wait.
17:13:30  <LordAzamath> B is the optional middle part
17:14:44  <glx> yes you have a-a or a
17:14:51  <LordAzamath> argghh. I got confuzed..
17:15:15  <LordAzamath> but I want a-a or a where a!=a
17:15:17  <LordAzamath> :P
17:15:44  <glx> 0C -> 0A 0B -> 0A - 0A
17:15:52  <LordAzamath> yes..
17:16:03  <LordAzamath> I got confuzed by my own code
17:16:22  <glx> and 0A always give the same result for a given number
17:16:53  <LordAzamath> hmm.. I want 64 bits ^^
17:17:05  <glx> you won't have 64bits :)
17:17:12  <LordAzamath> ever?
17:17:20  <glx> 32 bits are enough if you use them correctly
17:17:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... generating map takes forever...
17:17:42  <glx> you can reuse some bits too
17:17:47  <LordAzamath> how?
17:18:10  <LordAzamath> wait, I'll guess
17:18:29  <LordAzamath> I can use the same bits for different base actionFs?
17:18:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> 32 bits should be enough for everyone
17:18:52  <LordAzamath> so a and b can share bits?
17:19:22  <glx> they can yes
17:19:49  <LordAzamath> but... that solves my problem, doesn't it? :O
17:20:15  <glx> you still need to duplicate 0A if you want 0A-different 0A
17:20:37  <LordAzamath> yes, but then I have atleast half of the bits available
17:22:41  <LordAzamath> wait.. it doesn't..hmm gotta think
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17:23:40  <glx> the hard part is to find a bit combination giving the best "random" result
17:24:08  <LordAzamath> how many bits does the second sprite take?
17:24:38  <LordAzamath> exactly 16
17:24:39  <glx> hmm in your 0A third part there are a many duplicates
17:24:46  <glx> are they really needed?
17:25:13  <LordAzamath> I could remove them and add the probability into..
17:25:33  <LordAzamath> I would use exactly 32 bits  :P
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17:28:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> wahh... generating map takes really forever...
17:28:39  <glx> using newindustries I guess ;)
17:28:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> also generating towns took already forever
17:29:08  <glx> how many of them?
17:29:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> 1kx2k map, many towns
17:29:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> it said something around "xxx / 1500" in the status window
17:30:13  <glx> the more towns, the more time needed as a townname can be the same for many uint32
17:30:24  <glx> and duplicates are not allowed
17:30:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is now at industries "5061 / 5856"
17:30:39  <LordAzamath> hmm.. now I have another problem... :(
17:30:40  <LordAzamath>
17:31:21  <LordAzamath> It now works but for example all towns which start with Kei will get the addition...
17:31:41  <LordAzamath> same for kun
17:31:51  <LordAzamath> and KÀrd
17:32:05  <LordAzamath> and Must, MÀe
17:32:11  <LordAzamath> eg..
17:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> and industries slows down towards the end...
17:32:21  <LordAzamath> So it's not SO random...
17:33:03  <glx> nobody said it was random
17:33:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> why would a number series "11111111111111111111111111111111111111111" be not random?
17:33:27  <glx> the name parts are deterministic
17:33:59  <LordAzamath> yeah.. thats the minus side of reusing the bits..
17:34:08  <glx> yes
17:34:20  <glx> you just need to find which bits are better to reuse
17:34:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> gah... next time i won't do many industries...
17:35:16  <glx> LordAzamath: but if you can reduce the duplicates in third part, you may free 1 or 2 bits
17:35:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> it now takes like 10 seconds for each new industry
17:35:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> and there are still 700 to go
17:35:56  <LordAzamath> But then the (high) probability of la endings won't be so high.. I can live with that :D
17:36:35  <glx> you can refine it later ;)
17:36:41  <LordAzamath> ?
17:37:36  <glx> first step is to have enough bits for every parts, then you can increase the third part to have a better distribution for endings
17:38:40  <LordAzamath> well.. it seems I'll free atleast two bits from the third part :D
17:40:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think i overdid it with the industries...
17:40:07  <peter1138> Mmm, garlic..
17:40:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> and some of the fishing grounds are called oil field
17:40:43  <glx> only the station
17:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but it's silly
17:41:30  <LordAzamath> :O
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17:42:05  <LordAzamath> After removing duplicates, I end up having 47 different definitions at 3rd part...
17:42:18  <LordAzamath> which still makes 6 bits
17:42:25  <LordAzamath> as it was before
17:42:50  <LordAzamath> so it's not possible to gain from there.. But then, I think I can live with it..
17:43:01  <glx> there were only 8 duplicates?
17:43:29  <LordAzamath> no..
17:43:44  <LordAzamath> hmm.. wrong calculation
17:43:52  <LordAzamath> I freed one bit
17:44:01  <LordAzamath> total number is now 31
17:44:08  <glx> so 2 bits freed
17:44:15  <glx> as you have 2 third parts
17:44:18  <LordAzamath> yes
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17:45:49  <LordAzamath> so I have now bits FF and 0F free :D
17:45:53  <glx> maybe using the last bit of each part as first bit for the next part may work
17:46:23  <LordAzamath> but... I am using it, am I not?
17:47:02  <LordAzamath> 16+4=1a and 1a is the next bit..
17:47:14  <LordAzamath> I'm using..
17:47:30  <glx> currently you do 00-05, 06-09 and 0A-0F (in the pasted nfo)
17:47:47  <LordAzamath> oh ok..a
17:47:57  <LordAzamath> well renum complains
17:47:58  <glx> you can try 00-05, 05-08, 08-0D
17:48:21  <peter1138> Hmm...
17:48:26  <peter1138> Make it 64 bit ;)
17:48:37  <LordAzamath> peter1138: I already suggested :D :D
17:48:39  <glx> renum may warn you, but you have the right to do it :)
17:49:35  <glx> making it 64 bit won't happen soon (as the actionF spec says it's 32 bit)
17:50:01  <glx> and Random() is a 32 bits value
17:50:39  <peter1138> Strange isn't it, that apparently 4.2 thousand million combinations isn't enough...
17:51:49  <LordAzamath> strange indeed
17:52:10  <LordAzamath> and peter1138, it is enough
17:52:12  <LordAzamath> now
17:52:40  <UnderBuilder> is there any products appart of antiviruses of trend micro?
17:53:22  <UnderBuilder> I think hotmail uses it as antivirus
18:03:30  <UnderBuilder> I read in gnu's page that I should boycott it but I don't know what things use products from trend micro
18:09:14  <LordAzamath> *uck
18:09:41  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has quit [Quit: /quit]
18:09:48  <LordAzamath> Where do I have to change bit to the free one to get rid of that badbad thing?
18:10:07  <globester> hm, the simcity2000 scene seems pretty dead
18:10:49  <Sacro> OpenSK2K!
18:11:02  <Gonozal_VIII> sk?
18:11:08  <LordAzamath> SC2K* :P
18:12:10  <globester> there's such a thing?
18:12:25  <globester> :(
18:12:44  <LordAzamath> lincity
18:12:49  <UnderBuilder> how do I tell GIMP to select all the image that isn't color #000000 or #0000ff?
18:13:29  <Gonozal_VIII> the button with the coloured squares
18:13:46  <LordAzamath> shift-o is shortcut
18:14:12  <LordAzamath> in the start you select all and then deselect with that tool
18:33:19  <LordAzamath> heh.. I've got another idea... Half Life 2 style town names ^^
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18:33:50  <LordAzamath> City 17; City 14; City 1; City 12 :P
18:40:47  <peter1138> Inspired...
18:42:30  <NukeBuster> ls
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18:49:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> UnderBuilder: why would you need that?
18:49:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> the white parts are ignored by grfcodec, so they can be any colour you want
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18:56:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... with the paxdest, what is the critical mass for a tram system to get self-sustainable?
18:56:36  <Gonozal_VIII> depends on the running costs and difficulty and all that stuff
18:56:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> i connected two adjacent cities of 4k inhabitants each
18:57:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> and then two lines within each city
18:57:27  <Gonozal_VIII> that should work fine...
18:58:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> at least tram systems finally make sense ;)
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19:53:38  <ln->
19:55:16  <peter1138> Very stealth...
19:56:51  <Gonozal_VIII> how should it be stealth in bright daylight? paint it skyblue?^^
19:57:12  <peter1138> Chameleon?
19:58:16  <UnderBuilder>
19:58:42  <Gonozal_VIII> that's not a b2 underbuilder
19:59:21  <UnderBuilder> b2?
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19:59:27  <Gonozal_VIII> pasting offtopic stuff like that is bad :P
19:59:35  <UnderBuilder> not offtopic
20:00:29  <UnderBuilder> they are void grf files
20:00:42  <Gonozal_VIII> ooooh stealth grf, i see
20:01:36  *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd
20:01:50  <UnderBuilder> Soeb did one better
20:06:11  <peter1138> 198KB for a blank GRF? :o
20:06:59  <Gonozal_VIII> lots of blank :-)
20:08:58  *** Szundi [] has joined #openttd
20:09:05  <Szundi> Hi!
20:09:41  <Szundi> Please help me. I want to play with my friends over the Internet, and I need an option to set the game speed to 10 times SLOWER than the normal
20:09:46  <Szundi> so we can play a game for a week
20:10:12  <Szundi> and everyone can manage his/her company when he/she wants
20:10:15  <peter1138> Search tt-forums for the daylength patch
20:10:23  <Szundi> for example 1-2-3 per day
20:10:29  <Szundi> ah, thanks!
20:12:16  <peter1138> michi_cc, why does YAPP reserve paths through crashed trains?
20:14:42  <Tefad> because it's fun that way
20:14:45  <peter1138> :o
20:14:57  <Tefad> you know you love it when you have a 10 train pileup
20:15:08  <peter1138> Not. Really.
20:15:14  <Tefad> mmm does the daylength patch slowdown train cleanups?
20:15:16  <Tefad> that would suck
20:15:29  <Tefad> it'd literally take hours of real time to fix that : x
20:16:41  <peter1138> Good start to a day :(
20:17:39  <michi_cc> peter1138: only if these trains didn't have a reservation
20:19:53  <michi_cc> peter1138: and changing that would mean lots of calls to VehicleFromPos which probably isn't very cpu-friendly
20:23:01  <peter1138> Well it's undesirable...
20:23:37  <peter1138> However, an alternative is for crashed trains to reserve their track.
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20:32:29  <peter1138> If you could implement that, that'd be grand...
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20:33:07  <michi_cc> peter1138: well, a train crash in a pbs block should (barring bugs of course) never happen on it's own, so it could be considered a kind of user error. And then it's the question of how idiot-proof the game should be again.
20:33:24  <peter1138> Yes
20:33:31  <peter1138> I made a mistake and crashed two trains.
20:33:41  <peter1138> Then along comes another one and it goes into them...
20:34:13  <peter1138> Your argument is flawed as generally trains will crash only if they didn't reserve a path. Therefore, you'll end up with a cascade of crashed trains...
20:34:31  <peter1138> And reserving the track of a crashed train shouldn't be too complex.
20:35:07  <michi_cc> but trains will only not have reserved a track by pressing force proceed or doing some track remodelling
20:35:42  <peter1138> Yes,
20:35:52  <peter1138> I have no objection to my first two trains crashing.
20:36:09  <peter1138> But from the users' point of the view the third train should've waited at a signal.
20:36:51  <michi_cc> implementing it is certainly not difficult, but might still not solve the problem: what to do when the trains crash *after* a third train already has reserved some conflicting track?
20:37:21  <michi_cc> so it's not possible the reserve all tiles occupied by the trains?
20:37:31  <michi_cc> s/the/to/
20:38:35  <michi_cc> would be no problem if the third crash is also considered acceptable
20:38:53  <peter1138> But in that case the third train will not have a signal to wait behind, it will already be moving. Personally I consider that acceptable.
20:41:22  <michi_cc> if that's acceptable, I will implement it
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20:53:13  <peter1138> And, well, so much for trying to play without track highlighting on :)
20:53:22  <peter1138> It makes me forget that I'm using PBS, hehe...
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20:57:29  <Tefad> so pbs is back in main?
21:00:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> <peter1138> However, an alternative is for crashed trains to reserve their track. <- what i always say, trains should at any time reserve the tracks they are on...
21:01:32  <peter1138> But that makes skip-signals way too safe ;)
21:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> something uses awfully much CPU power... paxdest? industry animation?
21:05:52  <peter1138> Who knows? Nobody knows!
21:06:10  <peter1138> Not until someone feels like doing some profiling...
21:06:10  <SmatZ> gprof knows
21:07:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12232 /branches/noai/bin/ai/wrightai/main.nut: [NoAI] -Fix: various of fixes for wrightai (mostly finished all XXX / TODO) (yorick)
21:07:44  <Vikthor> I would say let only crashed train reserve their track, maybe after few ticks(let say signalmen take some time to notice, and after that they are notified and won't send trains to crash site)
21:14:30  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:15:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12233 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_list.hpp ai_tilelist.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: document that AITileList and AIList start empty on creation (request by Progman)
21:27:36  <Sacro> Vikthor: a signalmn would notice as his track circuits wouldn't clear
21:27:42  <Sacro> either that or the headcode wouldn't advance
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21:47:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12234 /trunk/os/macosx/ -Fix [FS#1798]: Mac OSX bundle display name should be 'OpenTTD' (oVRoM)
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21:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... one year over, max loan used up... now it's gonna show if my system is profitable
22:01:13  <UnderBuilder> is there any servers with the 'no more roads' option?
22:05:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12235 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_abstractlist.cpp ai_abstractlist.hpp):
22:05:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: don't segfault if you do a Next() on an empty list (tnx Progman)
22:05:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: warn people if they forget Begin() before Next()/HasNext()
22:07:01  <glx> michi_cc: this executable thing is really needed?
22:09:01  <michi_cc> glx: MSVC is complaining everytime again. probably not when checking out with Tortoise, but via Cygwin or git it's not working otherwise
22:09:21  <glx> that's weird
22:09:36  <glx> but ok
22:10:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12236 /branches/noai/ (24 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Change: [API CHANGE] All valuators are now in the notation: AI<type>List_v<Valuator>. Example: AIVehicleList_vAge
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22:13:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12237 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.nut src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: don't force the existance of a 'constructor' (tnx Progman)
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22:14:18  <peter1138> nini
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22:14:36  <Gonozal_VIII> ni!
22:14:43  <Vikthor> ni!
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22:16:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12238 /trunk/projects/ (determineversion.vbs generate.vbs): -Change [FS#1800]: set svn:executable property for *.vbs (michi_cc)
22:20:18  <michi_cc> thanks glx
22:20:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12239 /trunk/src/rail_map.h: -Fix [FS#1800] (r9729): inverted comments for SetRailType() and GetTrackBits() (michi_cc)
22:26:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... bad... the vehicles make profit, but not enough to pay the interest...
22:28:41  <Gonozal_VIII> then make them make more profit!^^
22:30:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12240 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_abstractlist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix r12235: minor typo (glx)
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22:46:30  <Sacro> hm
22:49:37  <orudge> oh look
22:49:49  <orudge> Sergej has found his way onto the OS/2 World forums talking about OpenTTD
22:49:52  <orudge>,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,336.0/
22:49:54  <orudge> although, admittedly
22:49:56  <orudge> that was in mid-2007
22:52:32  <Sacro> orudge:  No works on a photo to installation and imposing of pictures were made!!!
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22:56:32  <glx> orudge: and as always he provides links to ttd files and lies
22:56:41  <orudge> indeed
22:57:39  * Sacro will have a leopard in 1h48!
22:58:27  <mcbane> leopard (the tank)?
22:58:31  <Sacro> i wish
22:58:59  <Gonozal_VIII>
23:00:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12241 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (7 files): [NoAI] -Fix r12236: global search/replace to the unreadable documentation! WHOHO! (tnx Progman)
23:08:11  <valhalla2w> Gonozal_VIII: omg :D
23:08:28  <Gonozal_VIII> O_o
23:08:51  <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have to call me god..
23:08:56  <Gonozal_VIII> not all the time...
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23:35:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12242 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AITileList_Industry(Accepting|Producing), giving tiles on which you want to build a station for an industry
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23:41:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12243 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.nut: [NoAI] -Fix r12242: move the regression-test for AITileList_Industry* to TileList(), and show that they really work by using the Valuators to proof that
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23:56:03  <Tekky> hi, is it true that the YAPF cache is not stored in the savegame?

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