Log for #openttd on 26th March 2008:
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00:39:39  <Amix> hey
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00:53:14  <Amix> did you know that liechtenstein had an army?
00:53:15  <Amix> ;p
00:54:06  <nicfer> yay there is a iphone port of ottd :D
00:54:54  <Amix> why not symbian?
00:55:00  <Amix> :)
00:55:03  <nicfer> i just discovered it on the portable version page in the wiki
00:55:12  <Amix> ahh
00:55:18  <Amix> i have Nokia E90
00:55:31  <Amix> 800x352 would be ok i guess
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01:01:33  <nicfer> other thing, how can I do to not get bored while playing ottd
01:03:00  <Zuu> nicfer: Hard map, hard settings
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01:03:21  <AndreR> hi
01:03:33  <AndreR> i have a question
01:03:50  <Zuu> nicfer: Some nice train GRFs and perhaps try building highways for busses / lories too.
01:04:00  <AndreR> how is it possible to transfer oil from trucks to a ship?
01:04:34  <Zuu> AndreR: Set transfer and unload on the truck.
01:04:42  <AndreR> yes
01:04:43  <Zuu> And just regular ful-load on the ships.
01:05:20  <Zuu> And the port and truck-station should ofcourse be the same station.
01:05:24  <AndreR> but the oil is now in the stock of the truck station
01:05:35  <AndreR> and not in the ship or in the habour
01:05:38  <Zuu> So that they have the same name.
01:06:14  <AndreR> oh, both stations must have the same name?
01:06:19  <Zuu> Yep.
01:06:27  <AndreR> ok, thats the problem
01:06:42  <Zuu> If you first build your port, then place the truck station at an adjecent tile so that they become the same station.
01:07:15  <Zuu> You'll see a ship and a truck symbol next to the station name.
01:07:36  <AndreR> yes
01:07:44  <AndreR> but it wont work for me
01:08:20  <Zuu> Do you get a sigle station now?
01:08:52  <AndreR> no,i have a gap between the stations
01:09:33  <Zuu> You need to make it the same station. Remove the truck stop and place it again, this time next to the port.
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01:12:55  <Zuu> If you don't get it to work, post a save game togeather with information of which OpenTTD version you use on the forums.
01:13:56  <Zuu> The best is if you can post a game that uses 0.5.3, a 0.6 beta or a current nightly. As most people can open it then.
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01:20:06  <Zuu> nicfer: Also try playing mini-worlds. I recall a game for about 1 year ago when 0.5 was new on a 64x128 map with only three towns on it with 3-4 players playing on it. Then there is not much room to make super-optimized network instead you have to not make the towns upset and find ways to bridge/tunnel the opentent tracks. And in 0.5 there was no bridges over diagonals and other nice things for multiplayer. :)
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03:35:47  <Tefad> i am going to request some TTD music : D
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06:06:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12423 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (15 files): [NoAI] -Change: bring a little more uniformness into the first few lines of the API related files (add missing /* $Id$ */ and such).
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10:01:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12424 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: new sprites needed for the OSK.
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10:08:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12425 /trunk/ (21 files in 7 dirs): -Feature [FS#1846]: On Screen Keyboard for input fields so someone without a keyboard can enter text too. Patch by Dominik.
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10:38:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12426 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp network/network_gui.cpp): -Cleanup: sprinkle some coding style over a few files.
10:48:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12427 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [Squirrel] -Fix: silence some GCC 4.3 compile warnings.
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10:55:06  <Celestar> heyo
10:56:09  <Celestar> @openttd bugs
10:56:10  <DorpsGek> Celestar: Open Bugs: 18; Not assigned: 12; Closed this week: 12; Opened this week: 8
10:56:13  <Rubidium> 'lo
10:56:24  <Celestar> only 18. not bad at all :)
10:56:28  <Celestar> heyo Rubidium
10:56:45  <Rubidium> <- Interesting server ;)
10:57:02  <Celestar> lol
10:57:09  <Celestar> you think I should shut it down?
10:57:49  <Rubidium> it's currently the one with the lowest revision; probably also the one that's the longest online and unused
10:58:10  <Rubidium> so yes!
10:58:26  <Celestar> server gone ;)
10:58:47  <Celestar> hm
10:58:52  <Celestar> why is it still listed? :P
10:59:04  <Rubidium> udp packet didn't come through
10:59:20  <Celestar> maybe the "kill" might have something to do with it? :P
10:59:20  <Rubidium> so it'll 'time out' within 5 minutes
11:00:01  <Rubidium> could very well be the case
11:00:21  <Celestar> like kill -9
11:00:54  <Rubidium> now it's a goner
11:03:25  <Celestar> good :>
11:03:36  <Celestar> how's NoAI doing?
11:04:13  <Rubidium> don't know exactly myself; just started doing some coding related stuff again after two months doing absolutely nothing
11:04:20  <Celestar> hehe
11:04:22  <Celestar> ok
11:04:35  <Celestar> who's at the helm of 0.6 btw?
11:04:38  <Celestar> Belugas?
11:04:53  <Rubidium> good question
11:05:25  * Celestar wonders what showstoppers we have for 0.6 left
11:05:39  <Celestar> PutWordsInCorrectOrder();
11:06:07  <Rubidium> there isn't a big no-go on the bugtracker at the moment
11:06:33  <Rubidium> but then again, there were quite a lot of changes since beta5, so we'll just release a rc1 and hope it's the last one
11:06:47  <Celestar> anything to fix till then?
11:07:28  <Rubidium> Belugas was on the changelog and such, don't know how far he's with that though
11:07:35  <Celestar> The only "Medium" bug is 1832 and still am a newgrf n00b
11:07:57  <Rubidium> well, the severity is usually not touched
11:08:15  <Rubidium> and in this case I've got no idea about the bug either, so I'm not touching it
11:08:16  * Celestar goes checking 1852
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11:49:29  <Dominik> is someone who goes by the name of Tb2571989 in the Wiki here?
11:51:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12428 /trunk/src/osk_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1878]: loading from the config file could fail even when the data is correct. Patch by Dominik.
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12:28:04  <ln>
12:30:05  <Celestar> @openttd bugs
12:30:07  <DorpsGek> Celestar: Open Bugs: 18; Not assigned: 12; Closed this week: 13; Opened this week: 9
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12:31:39  <Celestar> On Screen Keyboard?
12:31:48  <Celestar> ah for PSP and PDAs?
12:32:24  <mrfrenzy> has anyone tried the symbian port? You need a needle to hit the small buttons and a magnifying glass to see the text...
12:34:28  <Dominik> Celestar: and for the Nintendo DS :)
12:34:30  <peter1138> Just get some better eyes.
12:34:36  <Celestar> morning peter1138
12:34:41  <peter1138> Hi :)
12:34:57  * peter1138 ponders the SDLmixer patch, now that 0.6 is branched
12:35:08  * Dominik cheers
12:38:20  <Celestar> peter1138: what does it do?
12:39:05  <peter1138> Extends the music/sound drivers to include mixing, so that a driver doesn't have to use the builtin software mixer.
12:39:12  <peter1138> Then it adds an SDL_mixer driver.
12:39:34  <Gekz> I had OpenTTD on my Palm TX
12:39:39  <Gekz> then the guy stopped maintaining it
12:39:43  <Gekz> it was 0.4 svn
12:39:46  <peter1138> The other drivers just inherit from a software mixer driver.
12:40:57  <Celestar> I see
12:40:57  <Dominik> once that patch is live my nds port diff will be a lot smaller :)
12:41:13  <Celestar> we have an NDS port?
12:41:20  <Gekz> NDS port? coolzor
12:41:29  <Dominik> not in svn yet, but yeah
12:41:37  <Gekz> flashcart and such required?
12:41:49  <Dominik>
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12:42:11  <Dominik> Gekz: yes, otherwise there's no way to get code on the DS
12:42:39  <Celestar> 256*128
12:42:46  <Celestar> what's the amount of memory in the DS?
12:43:18  <Gekz> Dominik: how much did it cost
12:43:19  <Dominik> Celestar: this should answer your question:
12:43:35  <Celestar> thanks
12:43:58  <Dominik> Gekz: you mean flashcarts for the DS? you can get them for 25-40 US$
12:44:08  <Gekz> Dominik: Buy me one xD
12:44:14  <Gekz> seriously, ebay fails -_-
12:44:46  <Dominik> ebay doesn't list them but any decent online shop will have them. even
12:45:32  <Gekz> I'm in Australia
12:45:50  <Gekz> I dont really have access to Amazon or anything remotely useful or of competitive price
12:46:09  <Dominik> i ordered mine here. they're shipping from HongKong to anywhere in the world:
12:46:30  <mrfrenzy> dealextreme are nice
12:46:35  <Dominik> no shipping charges btw ^^
12:47:14  <Gekz> :o
12:48:27  <Gekz> Dominik:
12:48:29  <Gekz> you buoght that?
12:49:14  <Gekz>
12:49:17  <Gekz> that I suppose
12:49:39  <Dominik> no, i've got an R4DS. but they are out of stock now.
12:49:58  <Dominik> but any of those will do
12:51:18  <Dominik> maybe the N5 is the sucessor of the R4. it seems they have similar firmware.
12:52:13  <Gekz> alright
12:52:15  <Gekz> brb
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13:31:32  <ln>
13:32:44  <SmatZ> :)
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13:35:02  <Celestar> ln: the U.S.S. Enterprise, no doubt
13:35:25  <keyweed_> depends, which version is it
13:35:42  <Celestar> -D
13:35:57  <keyweed_> then it's the enterprise.
13:36:26  <Celestar> considering the Star Destroyer has onboard lasers with a range of around 10km and sensors for 100km, yes.
13:36:49  <keyweed_> ancient crap
13:36:53  <Celestar> :P
13:37:09  <Celestar> A Photon Torpedoe has a range of 10 light seconds ;)
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13:37:48  <keyweed_> makes you wonder what the star wars scientists has been doing the last few centuries
13:38:14  <keyweed_> sure, light sabres look impressive but they're not much use against orbital bombardment
13:38:36  <Belugas> those are miniature...
13:38:41  <Belugas> so none of them :P
13:40:33  <keyweed_> actually, they have this Genesis torpedo from one of the movies, why doesn't the federation just attack all their enemies with that.
13:40:40  <keyweed_> looked rather unbeatable
13:40:49  <keyweed_> and leaves colonisable planets behind
13:40:56  <peterbrett> keyweed_: They probably think it's "unethical"
13:41:11  <Belugas> naaa.... it is just unrealistic
13:41:12  <keyweed_> peterbrett: letting the borg destroy earth is ethical?
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13:45:06  <Celestar> keyweed_: The Borg didn't do a good job, did they?
13:45:37  <keyweed_> Celestar: no, but it was to close for comfort
13:46:31  <keyweed_> something else worries me, how can an emperial destroyer avoid hitting things if it can only has a scanning range of 100 km
13:46:36  <keyweed_> *imperial
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13:46:52  <Celestar> keyweed_: it doesn't :P
13:47:10  <keyweed_> it can't fire at enemies, can't see what it's about to fly into
13:47:17  <keyweed_> worthless piece of crap
13:48:00  <Celestar> ^^
13:48:26  <Rubidium> it's probably build robust enough so it can fly through ships and such
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13:48:54  <peter1138> ln, i guess the caption is right :o
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13:49:54  <yorick> hello glx
13:50:14  <yorick> I'm updating the FICL patch, bitwise stuff inclusive
13:52:59  <yorick> but I guess I should only use numbers that are 2^*?
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13:57:18  <yorick> one would like a close button on the OSK
13:59:19  <Rubidium> and then 50% would complain that it does "the wrong thing"
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14:00:54  <yorick> where can I configure the thing?
14:01:54  <Rubidium>
14:02:31  <peter1138> documentation :D
14:02:47  <yorick> is there a GUI for it?
14:02:53  <yorick> >:)
14:03:19  <Rubidium> notepad, wordpad, kate, mousepad, gvim, ...
14:04:08  <yorick> ...
14:06:56  <yorick> doesn't the sign window have a close button aswell
14:07:06  <yorick> with OK and cancel buttons?
14:07:38  <yorick> I would also like to be able to disable it completely
14:07:57  <Rubidium> why?
14:08:05  <Rubidium> you do not have to click the textbox to type
14:08:15  <yorick> takes up precious pixels 2. I have a normal keyboard
14:08:25  <peter1138> don't bring it up then
14:08:38  <yorick> huh?
14:09:33  <Rubidium> just make sure the window where the textbox is in is active, which it is by default
14:09:40  <Rubidium> unless you first click another window
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14:14:41  <yorick> hmm
14:16:18  <yorick> and it fails to check with that
14:17:33  <SmatZ> yorick: HasBit uses bit index, use '0' or HASBITS
14:17:41  <SmatZ> or simple &
14:18:13  <Rubidium> it doesn't even look like something parseable by me
14:18:19  <yorick> true
14:18:28  <yorick> it's copied from different locations
14:19:09  <yorick> :o thanks SmatZ
14:24:12  <yorick> wasn't it DaleStan who said something about features stuffed in your face?
14:24:27  <yorick> I think the OSK is one of those if you can't even disable it
14:24:52  <Dominik> you have to enable it by clicking on it
14:25:09  <yorick> but it is there before you've clicked on it
14:25:30  <Dominik> no, it only appears when you click on the editbox
14:25:32  <SmatZ> you can't disable trams, drive-through road stops, more airports, newgrfs... but you do not have to use it :)
14:25:39  <yorick> I just want the possibility of having the old editboxes back
14:26:01  <yorick> SmatZ: they don't have a seperate window or you have to enable a grf for it
14:26:02  <SmatZ> rail conversion
14:26:06  <Dominik> did you even compile latest svn before complaining?
14:26:10  <yorick> yes
14:26:56  <Dominik> everything is as it used to be, unless you click on the black editbox
14:27:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12429 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_event_types.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: CloneCrashedVehicle isn't implemented yet, so mark it as such
14:27:30  <yorick> yes, but when I do that, a whole new window appears
14:27:44  <Dominik> correct
14:27:45  <yorick> while a new patch option on the interface tab would have been just fine
14:28:09  <yorick> I don't need ugly grey windows with a whole keyboard in my sight just to type...
14:28:16  <SmatZ> yorick: why are you clicking on the editbox anyway?
14:28:22  <Dominik> and when i click on the Newgrf menu a whole new window opens even though i don't ever use newgrfs
14:28:28  <yorick> because I need to edit it ;)
14:28:43  <SmatZ> editbox is active once it is open
14:28:44  <SmatZ> just type
14:28:46  <yorick> but then you have to drag over a whole menu, and such
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14:29:21  <Dominik> in OpenTTD only one editbox has focus at one time. there's no need to click on them
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14:30:23  <Dominik> but i did think about making them clickable for non-osk users. in that case the cursor should jump to the location clicked
14:30:38  <yorick> yes
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14:31:36  <yorick> hmm...I might merge PACKET_CLIENT_SET_PASSWORD into PACKET_CLIENT_SET_INFO aswell
14:32:00  <Dominik> but that's not how it used to be. in TTD the editboxes have never been clickable in any way
14:32:26  <Dominik> anyway, i gotta go. my GF is waiting at the cinema. cya all
14:32:34  <SmatZ> bye Dominik
14:32:35  <yorick> k, bye
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14:48:45  <yorick> hi dih
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14:50:51  <yorick> bye dih ^^
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15:16:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12430 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: safeguard, don't allow AI_Event calls to players that are not AIs
15:17:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12431 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIEventSubsidiaryOffer, which keeps you informed about new Subsidiaries
15:24:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12432 /branches/0.6/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [0.6] -Change: Update documentation for release of RC1
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15:30:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12433 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_event_types.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix r12431: cast values to avoid warnings (tnx glx)
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15:38:44  <Sacro> :o doubleslip penalties! :D
15:39:23  <peter1138> What?
15:39:55  <Sacro> new YAPF
15:39:57  <Sacro> err
15:39:58  <Sacro> YAPP
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15:54:13  <Ammler> will that problem with including newindustries after mapgeneration be fixed for release 0.6 ?
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15:56:28  <Rubidium> uhm... no?
15:56:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> i kinda doubt that
15:56:45  <glx> the don't change grfs in running game thing?
15:56:51  <Rubidium> isn't it said that changing newgrfs during games isn't supported and can only be used as it is now?
15:56:59  <Ammler> glx: no
15:57:06  <Ammler> if you take a scenario
15:57:22  <Ammler> and inlclude GRFs there, you will have that problem too
15:57:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> loading a scenario is "a running game"
15:57:47  <Ammler> well then, yes
15:58:13  <Ammler> but will/can that be fixed?
15:58:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, i'd still suggest a "resetcargos" command
15:59:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> Ammler: it might be "fixed", but it then might still not do what all users would expect, and certainly not in 0.6
16:00:20  <Yorick> <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, i'd still suggest a "resetcargos" command <-- I agree
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16:01:14  <Yorick> my bug report was closed, because I found out that the grf was added later, but I think it should have been changed to feature request with resetcargos command
16:02:01  <Ammler> I would say, its a bug, because you don't get the red box
16:02:17  <Yorick> I wasn the one that made the scenario
16:02:37  <Yorick> the red box should say something about newcargos
16:02:43  <Celestar> man Windows is really a miracle
16:02:51  <Yorick> it is?
16:03:17  <Celestar> how come that in Windows XP you cannot press a specific lever in Final Fantasy VII while it does work on 2000, NT4 and 98?
16:03:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> ha ha ;)
16:03:57  <Yorick> FLX has a problem with the gears lever sometimes :)
16:04:17  <Celestar> I mean how on EARTH can you code an OS like that?
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16:04:22  <Yorick> which means you lose the game because you can't use the landing gears
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16:04:30  <Celestar> FLX?
16:04:30  <Ammler> it shows a red warning box, but about breaking ottd
16:04:38  <Yorick> *FSX
16:04:46  <Ammler> not that it works but not as it should
16:04:46  <keyweed_> if ( $game eq 'Final Fantasy VII' ) { $lever->Disable }
16:04:58  <Yorick> hehe
16:05:06  <keyweed_> it's near the random crash functionality
16:05:11  <Celestar> :P
16:05:13  <Celestar> windows.c:1
16:05:29  <Yorick> for the requirements: 'if $os eq 'WINXP') {$lever->disable}
16:06:12  <Celestar> the game was released before XP, so I don't think that's the case :P
16:06:34  <Celestar> <= another windows miracle (=
16:06:40  <Rubidium> if $os is not known ...
16:06:56  * Celestar gets the feeling that he should run FFVII on wine
16:07:27  <keyweed_> Celestar: or stick to openttd
16:07:29  * Maedhros never managed to make that work
16:07:47  <Celestar> Maedhros: what? FFVII, wine or FFVII on wine?
16:08:04  <Maedhros> Celestar: FFVII with wine
16:08:06  <Yorick> both?
16:08:13  <Maedhros> i eventually gave up and bought a PS1 ;)
16:08:14  <Celestar> it's also PRETTY interesting that without a patch, all video footage on XP appears upside-down
16:08:22  <Yorick> :D
16:08:30  <Ammler> if that bug won't be fixed, we need something like a save editor, else you can't play any existing scenario
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16:08:56  <Yorick> what lever doesn't work?
16:09:06  <Celestar> if ($codec eq 'Indeo' and $app eq 'ff7.exe') { $codec->display_upsidedown }
16:09:14  <Yorick>  = true
16:09:16  <Rubidium> Celestar: what about clicking on the place where the level would be if the screen is upside down?
16:09:33  <Celestar> Yorick: in Wutai, when Yuffie steals all your Materia
16:09:36  <Yorick> pure genious
16:09:47  <glx> Ammler: you can play existing scenarii using the grfs used for it's creation
16:09:49  <Celestar> Rubidium: i've tried turing the monitor by 180°, no help :P
16:10:14  <Rubidium> you should flip it
16:10:19  <Ammler> glx: but since newindustries, you might like to use them too
16:10:23  <Rubidium> not rotate
16:10:32  <glx> Ammler: then create a new scenario
16:10:37  <Celestar> Rubidium: maybe I should try to turn the plug by 180?
16:10:48  <Celestar> Maedhros: the problem is, my FFvII is the 'Windows' version
16:10:53  <Ammler> that was meant with "can't play existing scenario"
16:11:02  <Celestar> Maedhros: which basically seems to be a badly written PS1 emulator
16:11:17  <Maedhros> Celestar: well yes, i had to buy the PS1 version of FFVII too, but it was worth it :)
16:11:24  <Yorick> wine doesn even have one
16:11:26  <Celestar> Maedhros: FFVII works just fine here.
16:11:33  <Celestar> er
16:11:36  <Celestar> FFVIII I mean
16:11:39  <glx> Celestar: try changing compatibility mode
16:11:45  <Maedhros> what i found fascinating was that the translation was worse in the PC version than the PlayStation version
16:11:52  <Celestar> glx: yeah, I'm just TRYING to find that damn option
16:11:53  <Maedhros> despite the fact that the PC version came afterwards
16:12:11  <Yorick> right click -> properties ->compatibility options?
16:12:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> start winecfg, and change the version in the dropdown box... err :p
16:12:25  <Celestar> find it :P
16:12:28  <Celestar> found it :P
16:12:35  <Ammler> glx: the problem is also, you need to know exactly which newindustries you like to use before starting editing scenario
16:12:35  <Celestar> but now I have to restart from my last save point (=
16:12:53  <Yorick> argh...xchat is buggy
16:13:15  <Ammler> you don't have such problems, with other GRFs
16:13:31  <Yorick> it only redraws the screen partially if it lost focus, and crashes when trying to minimize to tray
16:13:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have other problems... there is a nice looking civ4 mod where serviceable city radius changes with culture levels
16:13:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> but it crashes when you found a city
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16:14:25  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: you can debug it :)
16:14:36  * Celestar loves CIV4:BTS
16:14:39  <Yorick> you're all talking offtopic, bad all! offtopic should go into #?
16:14:55  * Celestar sticks Yorick into #?
16:15:12  * keyweed_ pushes Yorick into @
16:15:12  <Yorick> chatting with a bot becomes boring after a while
16:15:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> in the ~6 months that i have BTS now, i managed to play through 2 games ;)
16:15:36  <Celestar> depends on the bot.
16:15:43  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: Huge/Marathon? ;)
16:15:47  <Yorick> try him out, in #? :)
16:15:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah ;)
16:16:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> actually, the second one was smaller
16:16:16  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: I've quit using Huge maps. I don't like my ships to take half a century to cross a smallish ocean :P
16:16:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> i had to abandon some games because it became unstable
16:16:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> so i don't use huge anymore
16:16:49  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: Huge/Marathon doesn't work on my 1GB machine, only the 2GB one.
16:17:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, the unstableness might be wine related
16:17:39  <Celestar> Civ4 works on wine for you? :o
16:17:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> but i don't have a high end machine
16:17:59  <De_Ghosty> u need 4 gb of ram
16:18:02  <Celestar> it's the only real reason for which I keep my XP installation on my lappy
16:18:07  <De_Ghosty> and a geforce 9800
16:18:12  <De_Ghosty> to play open ttd
16:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, it works on some versions of wine
16:18:14  <Celestar> only that neither XP nor Civ can use 4Gb of ram.
16:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> with a few minor issues
16:18:45  <Yorick> make forgot running strgen :o
16:18:58  <Celestar> glx: bad news, the level doesn't work in compatibility mode either :P
16:18:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> you have to configure it correctly, else the terrain or the ressources turn black
16:19:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> and i can't use vertex shaders, because it says "is not supported by hardware"
16:19:48  * Celestar found an unoffical patch
16:19:55  <SpComb> OpenTTD vertex shaders?
16:20:40  <Celestar> yah :)
16:20:41  <Celestar> :P
16:20:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> De_Ghosty: i have a Radeon 9700, does that count? :p
16:21:31  <Celestar> De_Ghosty: you're right. my OpenGL version runs only a 256x256 map on a 6600 properly :(
16:21:43  <Celestar> De_Ghosty: but I plan to improve that (=
16:23:17  <Celestar> I wish I had motivation to continue that version :(
16:24:36  <peter1138> my opengl version runs okay
16:24:48  <Celestar> peter1138: I mean full OpenGL
16:24:52  <peter1138> could do with not using floats
16:24:54  <Celestar>
16:24:54  <peter1138> it is full opengl
16:25:01  <Celestar> no sprites?
16:25:26  <Celestar> free-fly camera?
16:25:30  * Celestar hides
16:25:31  <peter1138> opengl has surfaces and textures...
16:25:48  <peter1138> that it was only used for drawing 2d does not mean it's not proper opengl
16:25:58  <Celestar> true
16:26:11  <Celestar> but I was toying around with a full 3d version at some point
16:26:20  <peter1138> (nvidia's guidelines for switching from dga say 'use opengl', heh)
16:26:56  <peter1138> anyway, my opengl driver fails due to our multithreading
16:27:03  <Celestar> LOL
16:27:27  <peter1138> trying to load textures in two threads is bad ;)
16:27:32  <Celestar> there's an enthusiast patch for FFVII that re-enables the lever
16:27:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> "multithreading"?
16:27:34  <Celestar> peter1138: yeah, kind of (=
16:28:20  <Celestar> gah damn lever was a trap anyways :P
16:28:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> haha :p
16:29:01  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, map generation is a separate thread
16:29:04  <Celestar> but you had to press it to continue.
16:29:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> peter1138: yeah, but how should that interfere with graphics?
16:29:54  <peter1138> well, let's just say our sprite system is a bit retarded
16:30:15  <peter1138> the map generator creates smoke 'vehicles', and needs the sprite dimensions of those
16:30:16  <Rubidium> then unretard it!
16:30:25  <peter1138> currently the only way to get the dimensions is to load the sprite
16:30:27  <peter1138> Rubidium, yeah
16:32:08  <Celestar> ReadSpriteDimensionsWithoutLoading(); ?
16:36:19  <Celestar> Sprite->Load(false); :P
16:43:59  <nicfer> multiclimate world + 14 players patch + 60 clients patch + a patch that makes the city growth cargo transported based instead of number of stations based + better savegame compression + big maps = MMOTTD
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16:45:39  <peter1138> Celestar: possible...
16:45:51  <peter1138> Celestar, it just uses GetSprite() currently
16:46:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12435 /trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt: -Fix: do not remove the case from the Brazilian Portuguese translation while it is still in use.
16:46:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12434 /tags/0.6.0-RC1/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.6.0-RC1.
16:47:17  <Rubidium> :O CIA did a great job again in bringing us up to date in reverse order
16:47:34  <Digitalfox> RC1, great =0
16:47:41  <Belugas> yeah... must be running on a window system :S
16:47:41  <Yorick> yaay
16:47:42  <Digitalfox> nice work :)
16:47:57  <Rubidium> and still no servers with RC1 :(
16:48:04  <Rubidium> that dissapoints me
16:48:25  <peter1138> heh
16:48:39  * Yorick is compiling
16:48:49  * Rubidium is doing it for the second time ;)
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16:51:38  <Celestar> Rubidium: after TWO minutes? :P
16:51:59  <Rubidium> Celestar: yes :)
16:52:18  <Celestar> Rubidium: that's because you haven't updated the homepage yet :P
16:52:36  <Rubidium> that's because a lot of people didn't upload the binaries yet
16:52:53  <Rubidium> and because SF is slow as hell *again*
16:53:08  * glx is compiling winXX
16:53:54  <Celestar> what the FSCK does XP's compatiblity switch do?
16:54:26  <Celestar> I mean that's like having a "enable 2.6.20 compatibility" in a 2.6.21 kernel :S
16:54:26  <Rubidium> disable freeing of memory and such
16:54:47  <Celestar> Rubidium: in case some fucked up program reads after a free(); ?
16:55:04  <Rubidium> yeah, like Sim City
16:55:08  <Celestar> ?
16:55:13  <Celestar> dunno SC in windows.
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16:55:37  * Belugas takes care of the main page as we speak
16:56:37  <Celestar> hm.. do we get an RC1 annoucement in the forum?
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16:56:39  <peter1138> Gah
16:56:54  <Celestar> Rubidium: Sim City did read/write after a free(); or what?
16:56:54  <peter1138> Getting sprite dimensions is fairly well tied into sprite loading :(
16:57:09  * Celestar hands peter1138 some scissors
16:57:57  * Celestar takes the scissors away and gives him wire cutters instead
16:58:09  <peter1138> No, I've given up.
16:58:28  <Celestar> :P
16:58:42  <Rubidium> Celestar: search for SimCity in and read that paragraph
16:58:48  * Belugas grabs the scissors from Celestar's hands and give him a RC1 announcement pencil for the forums ;)
16:59:58  <SmatZ> :-)
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17:00:25  <SmatZ> They reported this to the Windows developers, who disassembled SimCity, stepped through it in a debugger, found the bug, and added special code that checked if SimCity was running, ...
17:00:49  <SmatZ> how great it would be if one could simply fix that and recompile...
17:01:04  <dih> hello LA
17:01:08  <LordAzamath> hello
17:01:39  <Rubidium> SmatZ: but how get the fix to the users?
17:02:24  <SmatZ> Rubidium: you can force recompile while upgrading windows...
17:02:35  <SmatZ> I am rather used to it, running Gentoo :)
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17:07:23  <Digitalfox> Rubidium: I just readu the APIWAR and one of this days i had a client with some problems on his windows xp, and after messing the registry i did find applications compability rules that the client didn't have installed or have ever used.. So now that makes sence..
17:08:23  <Digitalfox> Didn't know that there where rules for some applications already by default in windows.. Always thought it was generic ones..
17:16:08  <Yorick> I missed LA :(
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17:21:10  <ln> what do you say about this code:
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17:21:53  <Digitalfox> The strange thing about the APIWAR is that in MCSE no one told us about this compability rules in registry and i was teach by microsoft workers.. So i guess it's things they don't want to talk about :\
17:22:10  <Yorick> try at #javascript?
17:22:22  <peter1138> taught
17:22:31  <ln> Yorick: why?
17:22:32  <Belugas> ln, it's pretty badly written...
17:22:47  <Belugas> i feel claustrophobic reading it
17:22:57  <Yorick> just becaue I'm away again
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17:23:05  <ln> it's written for a big Danish bank.
17:23:24  <Belugas> so? they like been claustrophobic?
17:23:39  <YOYO> !openttd port
17:23:59  <Belugas> what do you think you're doing YOYO?
17:24:35  <YOYO> well was reading on the forum about a port problem and there it said there should be a cmd on IRC like this giving me the info
17:24:47  <peter1138> @openttd port
17:24:48  <DorpsGek> peter1138: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
17:24:55  <YOYO> but apperently it doesnt :)
17:25:02  <YOYO> ah
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17:25:49  <ln> YOYO: missing apostrophe. english please.
17:26:00  <ln> Belugas: would you keep your money in such a bank?
17:26:04  <YOYO> strange it still doesnt work even though the ports are ok
17:26:19  <Sacro> ln: Missing capitalisation, English please.
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17:26:56  <Belugas> ln, nevar
17:26:59  <Belugas> too far from home :P
17:27:01  <Belugas> lol
17:29:04  <YOYO> Ok what am i doing wrong.. Upd and tcp 3979 are open for inbound traffic and 3978 is open for outbound but still the server doesnt show up in the master list. Wireshark recieves his call but reports it cant access the port.
17:29:20  <Belugas> but on the other hand, ln, i doubt any bank will let you see its code, in order for you to make the decision to use this bank as your s:D
17:29:28  <Yorick> server_advertise on?
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17:29:56  <YOYO> yep like i said wireshark reports back it cant access the port
17:30:15  <Rubidium> not wireshark, but some computer in your network
17:30:47  <ln> Belugas: but that code is on the bank's web page, and i'm glad i'm not a customer of that bank.
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17:31:29  <YOYO> well it says it cant reach the port.... and i just dunno which one and why
17:31:51  <ln> try airplanes instead of ships.
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17:33:07  <Apollo15> lol
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17:33:28  <YOYO> In tries to be funny?
17:33:31  <peter1138> Hilarious.
17:33:40  <Cablegunmaster> no in i has joined the channel in it works
17:34:04  <Cablegunmaster> :)
17:34:08  <Cablegunmaster> i has made irc work XD
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17:44:21  <YOYO> if i put this in iptables this should be ok right? iptables -A INPUT -p udp --dport 3979 -j ACCEPT
17:44:51  <YOYO> same goes for the tcp thingy ofcourse
17:45:05  <YOYO> now why keeps my linux machine refusing it?
17:45:12  <glx> @op
17:45:15  *** mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
17:45:34  *** glx changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.3, 0.6.0-RC1 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English Only | for all related bugs/patches
17:45:39  <glx> @deop
17:45:42  *** mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
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17:51:08  <Cablegunmaster> hello!
17:51:15  <Cablegunmaster> is it me youre looking for?
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17:58:46  *** anhedral is now known as dih
17:59:33  <dih> :-)
18:00:06  <Yorick> ...I just wonder where you are...I just wonder what you do
18:00:41  <Yorick> Cablegunmaster : do I know you?
18:00:51  <Yorick> yes, probably ^
18:02:37  <Cablegunmaster> ^^?
18:02:53  <Cablegunmaster> well im from
18:03:19  <Yorick> ah, then you're the one I know :)
18:03:31  <Cablegunmaster> no shit sherlock ^^
18:03:45  <Yorick> welcome on the openttd IRC channel
18:03:49  <Cablegunmaster> im the only one with this name :)
18:04:00  <Cablegunmaster> nobody ever came up with this ridiculous stupide name
18:04:15  <Yorick> I can imagine why someway
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18:11:17  <Cablegunmaster> hahaha
18:14:35  <ln>
18:15:22  <Cablegunmaster> i dont understand that picture XD
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18:16:20  <Cablegunmaster> hi ^^
18:16:46  <Wolf01> hello
18:17:55  <Wolf01> happy to see a new version of yapp
18:18:21  <Cablegunmaster> yapp?
18:18:43  <Cablegunmaster> whats different on this yapp/
18:19:12  <Belugas> You Are Paying Premium
18:19:26  <Cablegunmaster> >.>?
18:19:34  <Belugas> YAPP
18:20:08  <Cablegunmaster> yapp = a webclient
18:20:19  <Cablegunmaster> YAPP (Yet Another Pretty Printer)
18:20:20  <Belugas> ho... really?????
18:20:29  <Cablegunmaster> ...
18:20:43  <Belugas> You Are Pretty Pointless :)
18:20:47  <Cablegunmaster> you are 2...
18:20:50  <Cablegunmaster> i dont know what yapp is
18:20:55  <Cablegunmaster> youre making me lol about it
18:20:57  <Belugas> lol
18:21:01  <Cablegunmaster>
18:21:03  <Cablegunmaster> this is also yapp
18:21:04  <glx> you should know what yapp is
18:21:23  <Cablegunmaster> is it the route plotting on openttd?
18:21:29  <Belugas> yup
18:21:45  <Cablegunmaster> thought soo ... but it still made me lol by searching yapp up by googling it ^^
18:21:48  <Belugas> You Understood Perfectly
18:22:06  <Cablegunmaster>
18:22:08  <Cablegunmaster> yapp ^^
18:22:16  <Cablegunmaster> arse::Yapp (Yet Another Perl Parser compiler) i
18:22:40  <Cablegunmaster> it didnt say anything about openttd :p
18:22:47  <glx> try searching on
18:22:57  <Cablegunmaster> but hey what did change in the current yapp?
18:23:43  <Wolf01> and as always.. I don't remember how to manually patch
18:23:50  <Cablegunmaster> ...
18:23:56  <glx> Wolf01: use patch
18:24:09  <Wolf01> yes, I don't remember the syntax :P
18:24:24  <Wolf01> I remember a -I
18:24:27  <glx> patch -p1 -i file.patch
18:24:33  <Wolf01> thanks
18:24:34  <Cablegunmaster> ah well :) i like the trains in openttd... without the trains ttd would become pointless for me :p
18:24:41  * Belugas writes down syntax in a batch file
18:24:48  <Wolf01> me too now
18:24:49  <Digitalfox> Is updated? Still valid?
18:24:57  <glx> yes
18:25:03  <Digitalfox> ok thanks glx
18:25:17  <glx> Wolf01: it is -p0 for svn diff
18:25:25  <glx> -p1 is for git diff
18:25:25  * Belugas should change the wikis to advertise that afxres.h is not required anymore
18:25:52  <Cablegunmaster> well go ahead :)
18:26:13  <Digitalfox> hum.. strgen.exe still comes with win32 builds on rc1..
18:31:10  <glx> Belugas: afxres.h removal done :)
18:31:24  <Belugas> :)
18:31:29  <Belugas> thanls glx
18:31:40  <Belugas> merci glx
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18:31:58  <yorick> back
18:32:07  <Cablegunmaster> im watching naruto =_=
18:32:17  <yorick> oh noes! a naruto fan!
18:32:18  <Wolf01> uh it asks for the file to patch ò_O
18:32:31  <Cablegunmaster> a little i hate narutards.
18:32:34  <yorick> you probably patch from the wrong location
18:32:52  <Wolf01> last time I patched from there
18:32:54  <Maedhros> or with the wrong revision
18:33:05  <yorick> what are the first 3 lines?
18:33:19  <yorick> and from what location are you trying to patch?
18:33:21  <Wolf01> --------------------------
18:33:21  <Wolf01> |SVN: 12421
18:33:21  <Wolf01> |diff --git a/docs/landscape.html b/docs/landscape.html
18:33:21  <Wolf01> |index 32f91af..1216d45 100644
18:33:41  <yorick> pach -p1 -i "yourfile.diff"
18:33:45  <glx> in trunk root
18:34:15  <yorick> it's a gitfiff
18:35:28  <yorick> I guess the patch is called YAPP?
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18:37:29  <yorick> or wolf01: try to patch with
18:37:37  <Wolf01> ok, moved the script in the root and worked
18:37:52  <Wolf01> the patch was that
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18:39:09  <ln> !
18:39:20  <yorick> Bjarni!
18:40:01  <ln> Bjarni: what do you say about this code:
18:43:54  <Sacro> Bjarni!
18:44:03  <yorick> #3
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18:46:37  <MrBrrr> Is there a bug when using Pikka's Basic Industries with the latest 0.6 release candidate?
18:46:52  <Belugas> not that we know
18:47:13  <MrBrrr> Well, can I speculate and say there is? And try to explain it?
18:47:23  <Sacro> away you go!
18:47:32  <ln> if you yell "Bjarni!" first.
18:47:43  <Sacro> ah yes
18:47:46  <yorick> maybe if you have loaded the grf after setting up the game?
18:48:03  <yorick> but try to explain it ^^
18:48:17  <MrBrrr> Well, the problem is that both coal and iron mines, as well as Oil wells have the same production when the game start.
18:48:21  <MrBrrr> To be more precise:
18:48:31  <MrBrrr> 1) Coal mines all have the same monthly production
18:48:39  <yorick> could be set grf-wise
18:48:43  <MrBrrr> 2) Both Oil wells and Iron mines all have the same monthly production
18:48:44  <MrBrrr> Could be.
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18:48:55  <yorick> how do you know?
18:49:06  <yorick> have you checked it during several years?
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18:49:22  <MrBrrr> Well, they didn't use to behave that way.
18:50:05  <yorick> then form a bug report at
18:50:05  <MrBrrr> Oh it changes, but when the game starts, they all start with the same production value.
18:50:11  <MrBrrr> Yeah, guess I have to.
18:50:19  <Belugas> so?
18:50:23  <Belugas> how come it's a bug?
18:50:33  <Rubidium> MrBrrr: so when did OpenTTD start to show that behaviour?
18:50:46  <yorick> and does TTDPatch do the same?
18:50:46  <Rubidium> since what beta (or preferably since what nightly)?
18:50:47  <MrBrrr> Well, they did use to all have randomly generated production when starting or restarting a game.
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18:51:00  <MrBrrr> I'll verify and give ya the nightly.
18:55:39  <peter1138> That depends on your game settings
18:55:43  <peter1138> It's always done that.
18:55:58  <peter1138> Some combination of smooth economy and fluctuating economy
18:56:21  <MrBrrr> Oh? I never change my settings though.
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19:00:19  <MrBrrr> Checking the nightlies, won't be long
19:04:17  <MrBrrr> Ok.
19:04:25  <MrBrrr> 11490 works fine
19:04:39  <MrBrrr> 11502 seems to exhibit the behavior I mentioned
19:05:58  <yorick> @openttd commit 11502
19:05:59  <DorpsGek> yorick: Commit by glx :: r11502 trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp (2007-11-23 16:50:54 UTC)
19:06:00  <DorpsGek> yorick: -Fix (r11144): don't do standard production change if callbacks 29/35 failed
19:06:01  <DorpsGek> yorick: -Fix (r11144): disable smooth economy for industries using callbacks 29/35
19:06:22  <peter1138> Or 11500
19:06:26  <glx> that's pre beta1
19:06:34  <MrBrrr> Yeah, it is old.
19:06:54  <MrBrrr> Checking the later ones, but it does change behavior over those two revisions.
19:07:18  <yorick> probably 11500 or 11502 then
19:07:28  <glx> and that doesn't determine starting production
19:07:29  <yorick> you might want to check using 11501
19:08:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> you might also want to check 11494
19:09:06  <peter1138> glx, 11502 affects starting production
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19:15:00  <Wolf01> yeah, really nice the osk :D
19:16:29  <peter1138> yeah
19:18:45  *** Sacro` [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:18:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12436 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Cleanup: minor coding style
19:18:55  <peter1138> oh god it's sacro
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19:21:50  <MrBrrr> Well, I don't see any new nightlies behaving any different than 11502.
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19:24:11  <nicfer> why there are too many servers with 1024x1024 map size? I always get connection lost when I join those
19:24:31  <yorick> then you have a _really_ bad connection
19:24:34  <dih> ask the server admins
19:24:43  <dih> yorick: or a really slow computer
19:24:51  <nicfer> I have a 256k connection
19:25:05  <yorick> computer?
19:25:10  <nicfer> p4 2.8ghz
19:25:13  <nicfer> 768mb ram
19:25:16  <yorick> same here
19:25:21  <yorick> but not 256k connection
19:25:27  <yorick> how many MB is that?
19:25:28  <yorick> :p
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19:25:54  <mrfrenzy> I can easily join a 1024x1024 map from a 56k modem
19:26:02  <mrfrenzy> something is wrong with your setup nicfer
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19:26:40  <nicfer> maybe its because I am too far from the servers
19:26:45  <Rubidium> or the server doesn't pause while you're downloading the map
19:27:43  *** Sacro` [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:27:43  <nicfer> the server pauses
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19:33:11  <nicfer> recently I joined one of these servers and the game crashed with the error 'trying to send a packet in the past or something so
19:33:21  <yorick> fixed meanwhile
19:33:43  <yorick> execute, I assume?
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19:34:11  <nicfer> yes, execute
19:35:41  * yorick has a patch that merges the nick change and password change packets into 1
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19:50:56  <ln> wtf, Bjarni joined and has said nothing since?
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19:52:12  <yorick> oh noes!
19:52:30  <Axamentia> yarr
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19:53:08  <Nego> can someone help me with the multiplayer mode?
19:53:40  <yorick> yes
19:53:53  <Nego> how to save / load the game status
19:54:01  <yorick> but the user "someone" is currently not online
19:54:02  <Nego> so when the server goes down, it can be save first
19:54:12  <yorick> try clicking the save icon
19:54:18  <Nego> its dedicated
19:54:25  <yorick> try putting in "save"
19:54:29  <Nego> so working from the console
19:54:36  <yorick> and read the help it gives
19:55:00  <Nego> k
19:55:14  <Nego> tgbx
19:55:17  <Nego> thnx
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19:56:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> KTHXBYE.
19:57:16  <yorick> and who sayed something about not to annoy the noob?
19:57:24  <yorick> noobs seem to be annoying us
19:57:45  <yorick> argh..."revenge of the noobs"!
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20:02:14  <ln> were the former employees of Stasi hired by Lidl?
20:02:27  <ln> or, rather, did Lidl hire some of them..
20:02:29  <yorick> Quite.
20:03:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> "every fifth person works with the Stasi."
20:04:09  *** Tuthmes [] has joined #openttd
20:04:21  <ln> referring to:,1518,543431,00.html
20:04:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> funnily, every fifth person is now unemployed ;)
20:04:32  <Bjarni> so I should kick 20% of the people in here?
20:04:33  <Tuthmes> hello!
20:05:22  <yorick> hello Bjarni!
20:05:51  <Tuthmes> any people of the dutch trainset around about here?
20:06:08  <yorick> no, Purno took a day off, I think
20:06:13  <Tuthmes> :|
20:06:26  <Tuthmes> they took the site down methinks :<
20:06:37  <yorick> it already was not really working
20:06:46  <Tuthmes> well cant download it now
20:07:01  <yorick> you couldn't anyway
20:07:08  <yorick> it wasn't released yet!
20:07:11  <Tuthmes> could tbh, played alot with it
20:08:08  <yorick> <-- verrry old prerelease
20:08:21  <yorick> not even sprinters in it
20:08:28  <Tuthmes> ahh yes cheers thats the one :>
20:08:46  <Tuthmes> yeah but the electric railroad looks the best!
20:09:01  <yorick> that's the dutch catenary set ;)
20:09:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> catenary has nothing to do with trains
20:09:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> totally different .grf
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20:16:11  <yorick> glx : I've updated FS#1866 again
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20:18:08  <ln> what is this verb "sei"?
20:18:26  <yorick> "sei", from "sein"?
20:18:27  <ln> i assume some form of "sein". (translation for Belugas: "to be")
20:18:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> "be"
20:18:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> or in mathmatical context "let"
20:19:25  *** KritiK [~Maxim@] has quit []
20:20:00  <ln> what form is it?
20:20:18  *** KritiK [~Maxim@] has joined #openttd
20:21:25  *** svanberg [5ae7aaec@] has joined #openttd
20:21:31  <svanberg> hello :)
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20:22:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> you can ask questions...
20:22:22  <svanberg> i have one question about the game. if i have longer stations does it reduce load/load off time?
20:22:25  <svanberg> :)
20:22:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> some form of imperative
20:22:42  <peter1138> sort of
20:22:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> "sei still!" -> "be quiet"
20:22:54  <peter1138> if a train is longer than a platform it will take ages
20:22:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> really depends on context
20:23:04  <peter1138> but if a platform is longer than a train it offers no benefit
20:24:25  <svanberg> so longer platform is always better when you have larger trains ?
20:24:35  <ln> ah, i may have seen it being used as imperative, but using it like it's used in the article is something new to me.
20:26:36  <svanberg> im not so good at english, so please explain to me like i was a idiot :)
20:26:37  <Patrick`> spiegeltent!
20:27:24  <yorick> not english! alert! kick! oh noes!
20:27:31  <glx> svanberg: platform should be at least as long as train
20:28:03  <glx> but extra length doesn't give loading speed bonus
20:28:08  <svanberg> glx: thx :)
20:28:29  *** Ammler is now known as __
20:28:38  <yorick> __
20:29:17  <ln> translation for Belugas: "" = "mirror.ger"
20:29:19  <Rubidium> Ammler in a car crusher :D
20:29:19  *** __ is now known as Ammler
20:29:27  <yorick> ... :D
20:29:58  <glx> ln: isn't that a newspaper url ?
20:30:10  <ln> glx: yeah.
20:30:14  <yorick> what is?
20:30:45  <ln> glx: a non-english url.
20:31:24  <yorick> *disables underline* it means something like mirror.ger, I think
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20:34:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln: where?
20:34:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln: where is that "sei" used?
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20:34:23  <ln> 22:04 < ln> referring to:,1518,543431,00.html
20:34:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> you must always deliver context
20:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> it may also be used as conditional
20:35:03  <ln> "Die Überwachung sei ÃŒber sogenannte Miniaturkameras in den Filialen erfolgt, ...", "In den Protokollen sei jeweils mit Tag und Uhrzeit notiert, ..."
20:35:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> oh, yeah, i have no idea how that is called
20:36:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's some kind of indirect speech
20:36:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> if you say what someone else said
20:37:00  <ln> like "is said to be" or something?
20:37:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> you replace "ist" with "sei", to indicate that you do not directly know the fact
20:37:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah
20:37:20  <ln> cool
20:39:33  <nicfer> hmmm what about bus stops in intersections / curves?
20:40:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> no.
20:41:05  <nicfer> too hard as I can see
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20:42:21  <nicfer> so.... what about random city grids? so one can have a 2x2, other a 3x3 one, or even 2x3/3x2 ones
20:42:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> 2x2 and 3x3 are possible
20:42:59  <ln> (UTF-8 is mandatory.)
20:43:17  <nicfer> how do I active UTF-8?
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20:50:06  <YOYO> @openttd port
20:50:06  <DorpsGek> YOYO: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
20:50:38  *** Arie^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:52:15  <YOYO> question for any linux goeroe around whats wrong about those 2 Iptable lines?
20:52:15  <YOYO> iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 3979 -j ACCEPT
20:52:15  <YOYO> iptables -A INPUT -p udp --dport 3979 -j ACCEPT
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20:54:26  <Progman> michi_cc: you cannot remove all reservations, can you?
20:54:32  <Patrick`> hmm
20:54:33  <Patrick`> nope
20:54:59  <SpComb> <-- so hmm, I started thinking about the future design of MyOTTD again, and here's two questions that I've tried to answer myself, but I'd be interested in hearing what other people think of the questions/answers
20:55:23  <Rubidium> YOYO: any routers in between your server and the internet?
20:55:29  <Progman> my yapp5 game got fucked up with reservations by trains which turns it directions :(
20:55:45  <SpComb> the first one is about introducing some kind of virtual currency for MyOTTD to regulate use of it, and the second one is about adding some kind of proper external API to OpenTTD
20:56:12  <ln> YOYO: you may want to use -I instead of -A
20:56:20  <YOYO> yup but port is forwarded there.. Like i said wireshark on the box responds to the call from the master server claiming that he cant reacht the port
20:56:20  <SpComb> the latter might be of interest to other people outside of MyOTTD, dunno
20:56:22  <glx> Progman: using the fix for YAPP5 ?
20:56:43  <peter1138> let's commit yapp
20:56:44  <Progman> glx: now, but the savegame was before the fix
20:57:15  <glx> then remove the track and rebuild
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21:00:03  <YOYO> ln whats the difference? never encountered -l before
21:00:21  <ln> YOYO: err... change your font.
21:00:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> SpComb: i'd say someone with an average of two players should be able to run a 256x256 map permanently, 3 players 512x512 and 4 players 1024x1024 (i wouldn't allow bigger than that)
21:01:08  <SpComb> the way that would work is that running a map of size x debits you y ISK/hour, and having z players credits you w ISK/hour
21:01:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, and paused servers give you a discount
21:01:35  <SpComb> with x, y, z, w customized somehow that in the long term you'd run out of ISK and have to reduce the map size
21:01:59  <SpComb> the CPU usage of paused servers it's exactly 0
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21:02:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but the memory usage is not 0, so they should cost very little, but not nothing
21:02:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> as you said, you don't want idle servers
21:02:50  <SpComb> it's low enough that I can run dozens of paused servers on a Athlon64 3500+ without it being too slow, though
21:03:43  <SpComb> yeah, there's currently dozens of presumeably completely idle MyOTTD servers on the OpenTTD server list
21:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, let's talk numbers, like paused server = -1, 256x256 map = -10, 1 player = +5
21:04:44  * peter1138 ponders food in temperate
21:04:58  <Patrick`> you don't want too many paused servers
21:04:58  * Eddi|zuHause3 ponders food in rl
21:05:03  <peter1138> as in, if you enable it with newcargoes, should it do anything
21:05:03  <Patrick`> because if there's a "run on the bank"
21:05:06  <Patrick`> and they all come on
21:05:15  <Patrick`> you suddenly find yourself with too many processes
21:05:41  <SpComb> terom@zapotekII:~/my_ottd$ ps aux | grep "openttd -D" | wc -l
21:05:41  <SpComb> 84
21:06:09  <SpComb> that's the issue that I want to solve...
21:06:10  <Patrick`> I mean too few cycles
21:06:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> peter1138: there should be more effects of cargo on towns, like "city >2000, no energy -> growth 1/4"
21:06:42  <Patrick`> I have an idea.
21:06:42  <SpComb> although it seems that only a portion of those show up on the masterserver list
21:06:51  <Patrick`> do a sc2k
21:06:56  <Patrick`> has anyone modded in power lines?
21:07:15  <Patrick`> as in, elrails only run if the network is in contact with a fuelled power station
21:07:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> "power" means "a power plant in the city that gets coal [oil?]"
21:07:39  <Patrick`> and towns grow :)
21:07:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> Patrick`: there have been suggestions like that, but nobody implemented it
21:08:41  <peter1138> power stations don't actually produce anything. hmm.
21:09:13  <Patrick`> they produce an absence of coal
21:10:03  <SpComb> IMO, in ideal operation, the amount of ISK that you get from active players should be larger than the ISK that running the server costs you, so that an active server slowly builds up an overhead that lets it keep running across idle periods, and possibly let you create more servers
21:10:45  <Patrick`> isk :)
21:10:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> then tweak it a little, like -9 for running, and 2*(+5) for 2 players
21:10:45  <Patrick`> hee
21:11:44  <SpComb> tweaking the numbers is the difficult bit
21:11:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> means 2 players can play half a day, and idle the other half, or make the difference bigger, like -10 and 2*(+6), for 8h play and 16h idle
21:12:48  <SpComb> figuring out the usage patterns for MyOTTD would also help to figure out how to tweak them
21:13:13  <SpComb> it's pretty rare that I actually *use* MyOTTD myself, so I don't really know how people actually... use it
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21:13:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> do it like Lidl ;)
21:13:56  <Philipp> hy
21:14:22  <Philipp> Hi
21:14:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> record personal conversations, even over cell phones, and when people make pause or go to the toilet
21:15:02  <Philipp> zu hause ist deutsch oder? :-)
21:15:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> occasionally ;)
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21:15:39  <Philipp> Viel englisch kann ich net :(
21:16:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> now is your chance to improve it ;)
21:16:03  <Philipp> Gibts nen OpenTTD Serverviewer. Wo man auf der HP denn status anzeigen lassen kann?
21:17:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, there are things like this in the forum
21:18:19  *** tokai [] has quit [Quit: It's like, wah.]
21:18:20  <Philipp> i have 2 days google and other one use and not found it
21:18:35  <Philipp> i have use...
21:19:18  <Philipp> can you give me a URL?
21:19:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> not really, i don't run a server
21:20:17  <SpComb> what about the other thing that I discuss in that, aka some kind of real external API for openttd?
21:20:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> SpComb: i have not read that, too long ;)
21:20:39  <ln> omg, i'm seeing a lot of non-english above.
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21:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> Philipp: there are people in the forum that have server status in their signature, you can ask one of those
21:22:02  <SpComb> the problem is that I have to offer a single web frontend that lets people view and manage a bunch of openttd processes that are each of a variety of versions
21:22:03  <Philipp> sry for my german... i noooot good in english
21:22:57  <SpComb> so I might have a handful of servers running 0.5.3, a handful of 0.6.0-beta5, a handful running some nightly, and I need to be able to have a web frontend that can be used to manage each of them
21:23:18  <SpComb> currently I just use OpenTTD console's, but it really sucks
21:23:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> autopilot? ottdlib? i don't know if they are suitible for what you want
21:23:47  <SpComb> my idea is to build my own API and automatically compile it against the nightly/release versions of OpenTTD, and then use that to manage the servers
21:24:23  <Philipp> its a good idea.
21:24:31  <SpComb> my code currently does more or less what autopilot and ottdlib do (it communicates over the console on stdin, and sends/receieves UDP packets)
21:24:55  <SpComb> the problem with it is that the API code wouldn't be in trunk, it would be my own custom code, and the code in trunk that my code uses changes from time to time
21:25:34  <Philipp> i have a little PERL application written... whit TELNET... i can make a socket to the gameserver... not more :-(
21:25:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> SpComb: you could beat truebrain to start including squirrel as console language, like he once promised ;)
21:26:05  <SpComb> unless the OpenTTD devs decide that they want to include some properly specified and versioned external API in the official OpenTTD
21:26:27  <SpComb> would squirrel offer access to the entire OpenTTD internals?
21:27:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> whatever you meas as "entire"... i'd guess it'll have a similar API as the AI has
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21:28:00  <SpComb> would I be able to do things like with it? :/
21:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> how should i know?
21:28:32  <SpComb> I guess I'm asking #openttd at large
21:28:42  <Progman> Philipp:
21:29:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> Philipp: afaik, ottdlib is a python program for querying servers
21:29:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> autopilot is a tcl wrapper for administrating a server
21:30:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> SpComb: i get a blank rectangle there... (konqueror)
21:30:50  <SpComb> I tested it konq at one point
21:31:09  <Patrick`> cool
21:31:37  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause3: try resizing the window
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21:31:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, now it's black ;)
21:32:48  <SpComb> hmm, it works fine for me in konq once I resize it
21:32:57  <SpComb> perhaps you're scrolled up past the edge of the map
21:33:02  <SpComb>
21:33:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah i think so, too, but i can't find it back
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21:33:40  <SpComb> but that's an example of the kind of functionality that I might want to implement on top of the API that I was talking about
21:34:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> SpComb: anyway, if you have access to the NoAI api, you can probably build a graphical representation of the AI view of the map (valuators etc.)
21:34:52  <SpComb> can I kick players from a network game via the NoAI api?
21:34:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> for anything more specific, you should probably talk to truebrain
21:35:05  <SpComb> (presumeably not)
21:35:16  <SpComb> and does the NoAI api remain the same across OpenTTD versions?
21:35:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> probably not
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21:36:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> especially since it is not finished yet
21:36:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> one would wish it would stay fairly stable after inclusion in trunk, only get bugfixes and new features
21:37:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> the "zoom in" looks very pixelated
21:38:22  <SpComb> it should load the zoomed-in version on top of the pixelated version
21:38:27  <SpComb> and indeed it does so in my konq
21:38:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> then my line is just not fast enough ;)
21:38:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> which is veeery likely
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21:49:41  <fjb> Hello
21:51:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> moin. [err..]
21:51:13  <fjb> :-P
21:51:40  <fjb> How do I configure OpenTTD for crosscompiling with mingw?
21:52:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> there are configure options like "HOST" and "TARGET"
21:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> and there might be a howto on the wiki
21:52:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> if not, write one ;)
21:53:03  <fjb> I have to find out how it works first.
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21:53:19  <SpComb> are the source tarballs for the on the openttd downloads page for the release versions the same as the tags in the OpenTTD svn?
21:53:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes
21:54:45  <fjb> In the wiki is a howto for compiling with mingw under windows.
21:56:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> there should also be a crosscompiling howto
21:56:05  <nicfer> is there a solution for making buses not break in curves and contracurves?
21:57:14  <fjb> Don't build curves.
21:57:21  <glx> fjb:
21:57:29  <Ammler> :)
21:57:30  <fjb> glx: Thank you
22:01:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> do you mean "break" or "brake?
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22:19:19  <nicfer> damn
22:20:01  <nicfer> my coal mine doesn't stop decreasing production
22:20:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> get higher rating
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22:21:04  <enkoopa> If I want to change raw_industry_construction setting, do I have to start a new game? Or is there a way to do it keeping my current game?
22:21:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> you can do it within the game
22:22:11  <enkoopa> Well, I have a dedicated server.
22:22:18  *** dih is now known as anhedral
22:22:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> list_patches
22:22:24  <enkoopa> So I save it, change the setting, restart it, load the game...
22:22:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> patch <name>=<value>
22:22:57  <enkoopa> Cool!
22:23:09  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:23:28  <nicfer> the rating doesn't get up of 67%
22:23:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> nicfer: a statue will get you +10%
22:23:49  *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai^zZz`off
22:24:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> an advertising campain gets you temporarily +30%
22:24:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> statue bonus is permanent
22:25:47  <nicfer> but other station gets ~80%
22:25:59  <enkoopa> Eddi|zuHause3: I love you.
22:27:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> nicfer: there are other bonuses, like speed of vehicles, vehicle age < 2 years
22:27:04  <fjb> nicfer:
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22:27:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> you get malus for >1000 items waiting, i believe
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22:29:02  <fjb> Sounds like ECS again. The constant decreasing of the production without a statue is very annoying at the beginning of the game. If you are unlucky you get bankrupt before you have enough money for the first statue.
22:29:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> start with passengers ;)
22:29:38  <fjb> Passenger destinations patch... :-P
22:29:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> although that way, you have no industries left by the time you can afford servicing them ;)
22:30:29  <fjb> That is the second annoyance.
22:31:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> the big problem with ECS is, it has no concept of difficulty levels
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22:34:00  <fjb> I think it is simply to hard to get a stable economy. You have to buffer everything. And at least most train sets don't have shunting locomotives for that purpose.
22:35:29  <fjb> In later years you can use trucks. But then you can also just build highways instead of railway lines.
22:37:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> industries in close proximity should have an automatic way to "transfer" cargo between them
22:37:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> "Schiene & Straße" (TTT) had such a system
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22:39:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> it wasn't really necessary with the default industries, because there were not as many chains to support
22:40:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> but with ECS, there should be stable local economy systems without the user interfering, but increasing in efficiency when they do
22:40:06  <fjb> At least ECS is getting better. In dustries are not closing that fast anymore.
22:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> i guess it is beta for a reason ;)
22:41:53  <fjb> Yes. And it looks very complicated what George is doing.
22:44:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't watch it that closely
22:45:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> i just tested it once, it made my computer extremely slow, and it was not suitible for my style of playing (passenger network with occasional cargo trains)
22:48:38  <fjb> The good thing is that you can chose which grfs suit your style best.
22:49:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> i like the complexity of the cargo chains, but industries should never be closing
22:50:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> and be less responsive if my network is not behaving overly efficient
22:52:37  <fjb> That is one of the trouble with ECS. One jam and your whole economy breaks.
22:53:03  <fjb> The production drops very fast.
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22:54:36  <Patrick`> I hate doing pax networks
22:54:43  <Patrick`> because there's just so many of them
22:54:56  <Patrick`> I accidentally did a goods dump with train cars that took pax
22:55:04  <Patrick`> it pegged to 4k waiting in about a month
22:55:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, there are too many
22:55:16  <Patrick`> and I had to saturate that line just to clear it
22:55:18  <Patrick`> made a mint
22:55:19  <Patrick`> but still
22:55:25  <Patrick`> not what I play for
22:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> it is *gasp* unrealistic
22:56:18  <fjb> The passanger destinations patch makes it a bit better.
22:56:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, it doesn't... i had >500 passengers waiting at every tram station
22:57:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> in a town with 4k inhabitants, i had like 10k passengers waiting
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22:58:53  <fjb> It has an option to reduce passengers.
22:59:09  <Patrick`> that's insane
22:59:19  <Patrick`> that's like turning up to the station to go to work in the morning
22:59:23  <Patrick`> waiting 24 hours for a train
22:59:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> i read those options, but i have no idea what they meant
22:59:30  <Patrick`> then yourself turns up again and waits with you
23:02:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> i then tore down half the city to build a rail line, but it only shifted the problem to the main station
23:02:56  <Wolf01> 'night
23:03:01  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:04:47  <Patrick`> KAAAAAAAAAAAAAANE
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23:32:55  <Roujin> good evening
23:35:34  <fjb> Hi Roujin
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23:36:09  <fjb> Hm, Canset is not able to transport wood products. :-(
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23:41:53  * Roujin is back from holidays and is now updating his patches to trunk
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23:42:43  <mrfrenzy> nice roujin ;)
23:44:19  <Roujin> by the way, I found openttdcoop's headquarters in norway :D
23:44:45  <Roujin> wait a sec, have to post the image somewhere ^^
23:45:10  <SmatZ> :-)
23:46:23  *** Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:47:04  <Roujin> here... don't worry about the weird domain name, it's a free image hoster, believe me or not oO
23:47:39  <Roujin> (scroll down, it's a big image)
23:47:52  <mrfrenzy> hehe ;)
23:48:37  <SmatZ> impressive :)
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23:52:36  <Patrick`> Roujin: we have a range of shops here in the UK called the COOP
23:54:10  <SmatZ> so do we :)
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23:55:41  <Roujin> dang ^^ but i found it funny because i think i hadn't seen a shop called coop before that.. and first thought about openttdcoop when i saw this ^^
23:58:07  <fjb> You will see coop shops all over the swiss. We also had a lot of them in Germany till the 80s.
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