Log for #openttd on 29th May 2008:
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00:24:23  <Sacro> frinkyfrinkyfrinkyfrinkyfrinky
00:25:22  <Belugas> SHIT!
00:25:35  <SmatZ> :-x
00:25:49  <Belugas> "This program cannot execute, your processor dos not support some required features"
00:25:52  <Belugas> bla!!!
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00:26:08  <Belugas> Ableton live
00:26:10  <Belugas> booo...
00:27:07  * Belugas looks for another digital studio stuff
00:27:26  <SmatZ> hehe
00:27:47  <SmatZ> damn proprietary stuff
00:29:10  <Belugas> that or too old cpu :)
00:29:23  <Belugas> i tend to think of the latter idea ;)
00:29:39  <Belugas> Athlon 1.35
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00:32:16  <SmatZ> :)
00:32:37  <SmatZ> I have Duron 1300 and I have no problem to compile anything on that ;)
00:32:48  <SmatZ> supposiong opensource..
00:32:56  <SmatZ> -o
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00:35:07  <Sacro> well hello Belugas
00:35:11  <Sacro> well helo SmatZ
00:35:14  <Sacro> well heo Eddi|zuHause3
00:35:24  <SmatZ> we he Sacro
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00:51:40  <jez> damnit
00:51:48  <jez> i was going to get to bed at a reasonable hour
00:51:56  <jez> then i started watching "Educating Rita", and it hooked me
00:52:00  <jez> now it's 2.00
00:52:19  <jez> is it me, or is one of the overriding themes that the tutor basically fancies Rita and wants her to shag him?
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00:58:44  <SmatZ> jeez
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02:01:11  <Belugas> lucky SmatZ :)
02:02:09  <Belugas> but i guess that when it comes to stuff like multimedia and all those recording stuff, some specs are required
02:02:13  <Belugas> dunno
02:02:45  <Belugas> and yeah... jezz to jez
02:03:05  <SmatZ> "0
02:03:11  <SmatZ> :)
02:10:23  * Belugas tests pikka's long dates test
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02:12:56  <SmatZ> nn
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02:21:55  <Belugas> yeah!
02:22:00  <Belugas> so it works :D
02:22:26  <Belugas> but now, it means we have tons of year-stuff to check or add :S
02:28:22  <Belugas> argghh...not enough bits on houses
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06:49:04  <Mchl> hello
06:50:20  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13318 /trunk/src/ (gui.h misc_gui.cpp window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: move some functions from gui.h/misc_gui.cpp to window_gui.h/window.cpp because they belong there.
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07:34:52  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13319 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove use of imaginary horizontal scrollbar in the group vehicle list
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09:13:32  <Roujin> cheers
09:18:39  <dih> trallalla
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09:55:00  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13320 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: move some enums from openttd.h to more logical locations.
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10:09:59  <Szundi> hi, everyone! i'm going crazy :) i cannot find a word about forgot passwords after reloading a multiplayer game. if i save the game, stop the server, then restart, all player passwords are gone
10:10:27  <Noldo> that's just how it works
10:11:00  <Szundi> why is it the good way of handling this
10:11:38  <Szundi> anyway, i'm working on a multiplayer version that allows you to play 3-4 week long games
10:11:40  <Szundi> :)
10:11:49  <Szundi> i think i'm almost ready
10:12:08  <Rubidium> saving passwords in the savegame is pointless, so where do you store them in a way that they get removed when the savegame gets removed?
10:12:08  <Szundi> i've made the days 20x longer
10:12:40  <Szundi> er... i cannot really understand the question :)
10:13:08  <Szundi> my problem is that if a company has no password, it gets removed after a while
10:13:24  <Szundi> and i don't want companies to be removed after a reload
10:13:40  <Rubidium> then disable autoclean
10:13:44  <Szundi> especially for my 4 week games
10:14:00  <Szundi> i cannot disable it, because then there is no way for an abandoned company to disappear
10:14:15  <Szundi> or is there any command that removes a company?
10:14:27  <Rubidium> yes
10:14:31  <Szundi> ah
10:14:40  <Szundi> maybe then it will be my salvation
10:14:42  <Szundi> :)
10:14:44  <Rubidium> don't know which one, but list_cmds'll probably give it
10:15:05  <Szundi> thanks
10:15:09  <Szundi> i'll look after that
10:15:26  <Szundi> is someone interested in my 4 week long game patch? :)
10:17:12  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13321 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp saveload.cpp viewport.cpp window.cpp): -Codechange: move some GUI/viewport related functions out op openttd.cpp to viewport.cpp/window.cpp.
10:17:12  <Rubidium> isn't there already one?
10:17:46  <Szundi> i'm working on it
10:18:01  <Szundi> i've increased DAY_TICKS by x20
10:18:14  <Rubidium> but isn't increasing the daylength EXACTLY what the daylength patch does?
10:18:15  <Szundi> then solved the problems that appeared i think
10:18:27  <Szundi> hm
10:18:29  <Szundi> :)
10:18:34  <Szundi> don't know
10:18:40  <Rubidium> except that you force it to be 20 and the daylength patch allows it to be 1..32
10:18:41  <Szundi> i think i've tried to search that
10:18:52  <Szundi> where can i get that patch
10:19:03  <Noldo> it's in the forums
10:19:08  <Rubidium> somewhere in the development forum
10:19:18  <Szundi> hm
10:19:40  <Szundi> and it can handle the servicing and mad city growth problems?
10:20:55  <Rubidium> don't know
10:21:06  <Szundi> hm
10:21:08  <Rubidium> I haven't tried it, haven't looked at it, just read a little about it
10:21:21  <Szundi> interesting, i've just seen the patch file
10:21:48  <Szundi> however, for example the vehicles check that they need servicing only on daychange
10:22:05  <Szundi> and reliability is decreasing with daychanges too
10:22:18  <Szundi> and it's bad for me, too much money is generated by these changes
10:22:47  <SmatZ> just call OnNewDay every 74th tick instead of new day :-P
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10:24:56  <Szundi> haha, i'm checking the newest one, looks similar to mine :D
10:25:25  <Szundi> SmatZ: not good, then everything speeds up
10:25:39  <Szundi> i've just divided all income by 20
10:25:44  <SmatZ> hehe
10:25:48  <Szundi> and tried to leave others alone
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11:13:36  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13322 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp openttd.h window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: _no_scroll belongs more with the window code.
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11:48:08  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13323 /trunk/src/ (player_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.cpp): -Codechange: scrollbars are not refresh counters
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12:52:47  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13324 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_road.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix [FS#2047]: you could not build tram-depots (you got to love the consistancy of bit-placement in p1 and p2 ;))
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13:20:40  <Belugas> ho... another daylenght patch...
13:20:46  <Belugas> YADP!
13:21:01  <peter1138> heh
13:23:26  <Vikthor> YAYASP - Yet Another "Yet Another Something Patch" :D
13:23:57  <hylje> yet another yet another yet another patch
13:24:08  <Sacro> is it my turn to release one again?
13:24:15  <Sacro> seeing as i started it all
13:25:26  <Gekz> SSP
13:25:29  <Gekz> Superior Something Patch
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13:44:38  <Volley> ANFSCDP
13:44:42  <Volley> And Now for Something Completely Different Patch
13:46:51  <hylje> ATWMRP
13:46:55  <hylje> And There Was Much Rejoicing Patch
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13:57:15  <Mchl> PP - patched patch
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14:17:49  <Szundi> :P
14:18:09  <Szundi> :)
14:18:18  <Szundi> my daylength patch is different :)
14:18:20  <Szundi> ;)
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14:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> oh the eternal problem of daylength patches... defining which actions/values should be tick-based and what should be day-based
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15:13:41  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13325 /trunk/src/ (95 files in 7 dirs): -Codechange: split the client-side only settings from the settings stored in the savegame so there is no need to have a duplicate copy of it for new games.
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15:57:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13326 /branches/noai/ (192 files in 14 dirs):
15:57:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Sync with trunk r13264:13325
15:57:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: removed AISign.GetSignCount()
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16:07:54  <DJNekkid> hi all ... anyone with experience with VarAction2 type 36 here?
16:09:00  <DJNekkid> aka callback :) hehe
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16:11:17  <Sacro> DJNekkid: probably want peter1138
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16:12:44  <DJNekkid> i might :)
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16:20:24  <Belugas> type 36?
16:21:01  * Sacro turns Belugas into a type 36
16:22:12  <Mchl> man.... unturn him...
16:22:39  <SmatZ> what has ben turned, can't be unturned
16:22:42  <SmatZ> +e
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16:25:47  <peter1138> type 36?
16:26:13  <murr4y_> type 36?
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16:26:51  <Belugas> perfect example of a digital delay effect ^_^
16:27:32  <peter1138> but there is no 'type 36'
16:27:50  <peter1138> that would be 36 entries in an action 2
16:28:30  <DJNekkid> peter1138: : callback 36
16:28:31  <peter1138> unless you mean callback 36, which is not the same thing
16:28:41  <DJNekkid> that is what i ment ...
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16:32:52  <DJNekkid> brb
16:33:03  <DJNekkid> no, not yet
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16:37:40  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13327 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: NetworkGameWindow uses GUILists Sort() now
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16:39:56  <DJNekkid> well ... the point is peter1138 , or whoever ... im makeing a trainset with dynamic passanger wagons (different weight and capacity)
16:40:17  <dih> nice
16:40:46  <DJNekkid> typicaly, an ICE-3 dont have the same capacity as a TGV Duplex
16:41:24  <DJNekkid> i've somewhat understood var2 when it comes to grapics, but the callbacks have ran past me ...
16:41:40  <DJNekkid> articulation also is somewhat understood (well, what i've done works so ...)
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16:47:38  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13328 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix (r13327): Don't access an item when there isn't any
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16:58:27  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13329 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.cfg: [NoAI] -Update: regression.cfg now uses the 'new' format
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17:01:56  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13330 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix: 'Player name' dialog was broken in two ways
17:02:22  <Belugas> the fisrt way and the second way
17:02:32  <Belugas> or the right way and the left way
17:03:02  <SmatZ> the former and latter way
17:03:12  <SmatZ> it was broken the right way, indeed :)
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17:13:39  <Draakon> hi
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17:20:08  * Hendikins blehs, misses PBS
17:20:31  <Draakon> lol
17:20:34  <Draakon> get yapp
17:21:13  <Hendikins> Yapp?
17:22:31  <Draakon>
17:23:33  <Hendikins> I'm a purist. I'd rather stick to stock builds
17:23:50  <Rubidium> so you're using a 3 year old nightly?
17:23:59  <Hendikins> No.
17:25:38  <Mchl> what kind of purity is that?
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17:26:22  <Hendikins> I'm doing without.
17:31:52  <Hendikins> It just gets annoying building runaround roads where I should be able to have a station on a main line and be able to run trains in/out of all platforms as well as express.
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17:37:37  <Wolf01> hello
17:38:23  <SmatZ> hi
17:47:52  <Wolf01> mmmh some futuristic things for a nice future set grf:
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17:49:35  <Mchl> Colani... I remember seeing his concept of Chevrolet Corvette...
17:49:45  <Mchl> didn't look much like Corvette...
17:49:55  <Mchl> didn't look much like car actually...
17:54:25  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13331 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Fix (r12924): Wrong include type for (sdt::)map
17:55:11  <SmatZ> hehe
17:56:51  <Mchl> brb
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18:07:44  * Mchl got to the point, where he wonders wether he's dumb, his debugging tool is buggy, or his computer is posessed
18:08:38  <Draakon> or perhaps neither of that?
18:09:02  <Mchl> can't see any other options...
18:09:21  <Draakon> blow your PC up?
18:09:46  <Mchl> submerging it into holy water crossed my mind
18:09:59  <Draakon> do it
18:10:13  <Mchl> don;t have any at hand
18:10:18  <Belugas> Relax, Don't Do it!
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18:10:55  <Mchl> When you wanna to go to it
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18:12:01  <Belugas> hehe
18:12:11  <Draakon> btb
18:12:18  <Draakon> brb*
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18:13:35  <Mchl> just how something in a simple switch statement on server side script can affect the way client side script sends data to it?
18:13:45  <Mchl> it must be posession...
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18:15:31  <Draakon> back
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18:15:53  <Draakon> mchl: its a conspiracy
18:16:08  <Mchl> hmmm... ok, that's a valid option as well
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18:21:08  <DJNekkid> damn crashes
18:21:40  <Mchl> damn posessed computers
18:21:57  *** Sionide- is now known as Sionide
18:22:26  <Draakon> damn conspiracy
18:24:38  <DJNekkid> but it were thoose Callback 36's...
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18:27:00  <Mchl> I scrapped this frament of code, written it anew, and guess what? It doesn't cause problems anymore...
18:27:04  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:27:26  <Mchl> so buggy debugger option is no valid anymore
18:27:33  <Mchl> isn't
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18:35:26  <Mchl> well... it seems I am dumb after all
18:35:45  <DJNekkid> *smack in head?*
18:36:48  <Mchl> yes please
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18:37:56  <Belugas> Mchl, you're not dumb.  you are just learning
18:37:58  <Belugas> it's normal
18:38:10  <Belugas> whatever you did ;)
18:38:27  <Belugas> hey... waht's wrong with me??? I'm not mean!
18:40:13  <Draakon> *runs*
18:42:14  <Mchl> one would thing, that I should learn to put return($whateveryouwanttoreturn); and the end of a function by now
18:42:27  <Mchl> but thanks for kind words
18:42:51  <Mchl> at the and of a function
18:42:57  <Mchl> damn...
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18:43:04  <Mchl> at the end of a...
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18:43:39  <peter1138> 1) not all functions need return values
18:43:47  <peter1138> 2) generally you don't need ( )
18:44:41  <Mchl> both true
18:44:54  <SmatZ> and compiler should give you a warning if you are missing a return
18:44:55  <Mchl> still... I wanetd this one to return a value
18:45:05  <Mchl> that's PHP so no compiler
18:45:18  <SmatZ> aha, interesting :)
18:45:31  <SmatZ> I thought you are talking about some OTTD patch
18:45:34  <Mchl> what's bothering me the most, is why it had so bizzare efects
18:45:51  <SmatZ> I don't know how PHP works :-/
18:45:51  <Mchl> sorry... :P
18:45:57  <hylje> SmatZ: not many do
18:46:14  <Bjarni> a lot of people claim to somewhat know how it works
18:46:31  <Bjarni> or at least to get it somewhat working
18:46:49  <Mchl> some are crazy enough, to attempt at OOP in PHP
18:47:01  <Mchl> knowing that OOP in PHP sucks
18:47:07  <Bjarni> :)
18:47:23  <Bjarni> I consider using OOP in C++ tricky enough
18:47:24  <Mchl> it got much better since PHP 5.0 though
18:47:31  <Bjarni> and OOP somewhat works in C++
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18:50:30  <Mchl> I should tell TrueBrain to adopt PHP for NoAI in place of Squirrel
18:50:45  <Belugas> why not XML?
18:51:05  <Mchl> yeah... and JavaScript
18:51:32  <wolfy> hmm, being able to get some information about if tracks are used or not would be usefull :)
18:51:36  *** wolfy is now known as Wolfensteijn
18:52:02  <Mchl> !! it's real shame OTTD doesn't use Rails :D
18:52:32  <Wolfensteijn> hehe
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18:52:54  <Wolfensteijn> I've got some tracks, and a waypoint, but I don't know if those are used or not
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18:53:23  <Wolfensteijn> although from observation, it seems they're not used
18:53:36  <Mchl> Grass on unused tracks patchmight interest you
18:53:49  <Mchl> AFAIK it's the only way to mark unused tracks for now
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18:54:35  <Wolfensteijn> sounds interesting, but that patch has to get it's information from some place
18:54:51  <Belugas> the map array, maybe?
18:55:04  <Wolfensteijn> so in theory it would be possible to use the Land Area Information thingie to show that information textually
18:55:28  <Belugas> i doubt
18:55:33  <Belugas> it'snot the tool for it
18:55:43  <Belugas> not in its current form, anyway
18:56:07  <Belugas> but theorically, i guess so
18:56:19  <Wolfensteijn> like the question mark tool in simcity 4 ;)
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19:01:02  <Belugas> like... who cares about simcity???? this is OpenTTD
19:01:42  <Wolfensteijn> because simcity has a tool that could be useful in openttd
19:01:46  <Wolfensteijn> and I can't program
19:02:04  <Wolfensteijn> btw, anyone interested in seeing a crazy train network on a way to small map?
19:02:23  <Wolfensteijn> it works, I build it, but I can't figure out why it works, or even how it works :D
19:03:10  <Mchl> like PHP
19:03:25  <Wolfensteijn> hehe
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19:06:28  <Wolfensteijn>
19:06:31  <Wolfensteijn> for those interested ;)
19:06:38  <Wolfensteijn> works with 6.1 RC2
19:07:18  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13332 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix (r13325): network games got somewhat broken.
19:08:52  <Wolfensteijn> all I want to hear is that I'm a madman ;)
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19:25:14  <Hendikins> I'm going to ask a stupid question. What exactly does allowing town control of airport noise levels do? Throttle your air traffic?
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19:25:32  * Hendikins is guessing it throttles it by some randomish value based on the level of goodwill the town has for you.
19:25:43  <Sacro> Wolfensteijn: there isn't a 6.1
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19:27:30  <Mchl> it allows you to build airports only if they are not too noisy for the city :)
19:27:39  <Wolfensteijn> Sacro> 0.6.1 RC2 then...
19:28:21  <Mchl> the farther from the city center, the less noise it generates for city
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19:43:50  <Belugas> :O
19:43:58  <Belugas> randomish???
19:44:12  <Bjarni> this is IRC
19:44:23  <Bjarni> most comments are random
19:44:58  <Prof_Frink> radishes
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19:51:47  <Bjarni> <-- I support his will to toggle that "allowed action" bit
19:53:37  * Bjarni wonders about the current location of ln
19:53:49  <Bjarni> with any luck he escaped Sweden
19:53:52  <Rubidium> near e
19:53:59  <Wolf01> 'night
19:54:02  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
19:54:12  <Bjarni> so he is close to the country of e?
19:54:18  <Bjarni> that sounds just about right
19:54:41  <Prof_Frink> Pfft
19:54:46  <Prof_Frink> Sweden isn't real
19:55:01  <Mchl> you mean e, like e=2,718... ?
19:55:27  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: I would like to believe you but I have actually seen the place
19:55:52  <Bjarni> the violent place >_<
19:56:28  <Bjarni> it's the 13rd most peaceful country in the world
19:56:41  <Bjarni> which is bad if you are used to being in the 2nd most peaceful
19:56:46  * Mchl recalls seeing some exchange students from Sweden while in secondary school
19:57:03  <Hendikins> Bjarni: I love my job. Where else can I get paid /hr to play openttd because I've got nothing else to do? :P
19:57:04  <Bjarni> <-- list for reference if you like
19:57:13  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Hallucinations.
19:57:28  <Hendikins> I'm finding 0130 - 0430 is turning in to a 3 hour openttd session
19:57:30  <Bjarni> Hendikins: I once had a similar job. I was paid to wait for the computers to fail :D
19:57:44  <Hendikins> Bjarni: I'm being paid to wait for points to fail, does that count?
19:57:55  <Bjarni> what points?
19:58:20  <Hendikins> 508, 509, 511 and 512 points.
19:58:23  <Rubidium> decimal
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19:58:30  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13333 /trunk/src/console.cpp: -Fix: compilance without networking enabled.
19:58:41  <Hendikins> Or, to the untrained eye, the 4 sets of points in close proximity to Kingsgrove station.
19:58:42  <Mchl> Poland's 31st... whatever that means...
19:58:53  <Bjarni> Hendikins: btw do you guys have freight operation or is it passengers only?
19:59:13  <Hendikins> In what context?
19:59:24  <Hendikins> Do we have freight trains on our tracks? Yes.
19:59:28  <Hendikins> Do we run them? No.
19:59:40  <Hendikins> The freight got privatised a few years ago.
19:59:57  <Bjarni> I meant the first ;)
19:59:58  <Hendikins> (Yeah, smart move, just sell off the only part of the railway that actually makes any money...)
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20:00:12  <Hendikins> The line I'm working on doesn't have freight though.
20:00:18  <Bjarni>  <Hendikins> (Yeah, smart move, just sell off the only part of the railway that actually makes any money...) <-- they did the same thing here
20:00:27  <Mchl> and here
20:00:29  <Hendikins> The East Hills Line only sees freight if trackwork requires it.
20:01:25  <Bjarni> they lost a lot of money on the freight department so they put it up for sale. While it was in the process of being sold somebody made a press release that the freight trains did well and all the money were lost in the lorry department
20:01:34  <Bjarni> the state still went on with the sale
20:02:17  <Hendikins> I also think I'll get along quite well at Kingsgrove, because I -like- doing the backshift.
20:02:26  <Bjarni> the buyer ran trains for a few years then they closed down and moved their operation out of the country
20:02:46  <Mchl> here they've split state railways into so many companies, that it's hard to understand, who's responsible for what
20:02:49  <Hendikins> It seems people who say "beauty!" to doing backshift are few and far between.
20:02:52  <Bjarni> now some small companies started up freight operation though
20:03:02  <Bjarni> small as in "owns less than 10 locomotives"
20:03:26  <Bjarni> but since they are more than one I guess we have the competition that somebody wished for
20:03:35  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
20:03:41  * Hendikins waits for his parents' plane to land.
20:03:57  <Bjarni> last time I saw a freight train was.... hmm
20:04:01  <Bjarni> 2 hours ago
20:04:08  <Hendikins> I've watched it go from due 0620 to estimated 0555 to estimated 0605 to estimated 0619.
20:04:20  <Bjarni> :P
20:05:12  <Hendikins> I haven't seen a freight train in about 2 days, but that is because the Glenfield Junction <-> Wolli Ck Junction section doesn't get them.
20:05:29  <Hendikins> So it is a case of dumb luck seeing one when I'm in the Ingleburn -> Glenfield Junction section commuting.
20:05:30  <Bjarni> the train that I have seen have gained the most ahead of time was 7-8 hours early
20:05:36  <Hendikins> I see plenty on TLS though.
20:05:52  <Mchl> and I haven't seen freighttrains in days... any trains in fact... but I can hear them
20:06:06  <Bjarni> basically because the train was crewed and they said "we don't want somebody to show up tomorrow morning to move it 20 km and then take a 4 hour break"
20:06:08  <Hendikins> I can see where they are, does that count? :P
20:06:30  <Hendikins> I see plenty of freight when I'm working at Cabramatta though.
20:07:00  <Bjarni> you use some sort of EMUs, right?
20:07:13  <Hendikins> Bjarni: You don't work on stations IIRC, otherwise I'd ask if you had something like our Train Location System (TLS)
20:07:24  <Hendikins> Sydney uses DDEMUs for passenger services.
20:07:29  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:08:04  <Hendikins> Our entire electric fleet is double deck.
20:08:22  <Bjarni> we have a system to detect what blocks are in use (read: contains a train) and a computer to remember the train number for the train in each block
20:08:38  <Hendikins> That is basically what TLS does.
20:08:42  <Bjarni> we also have GPS on all units with a cab
20:08:56  <Bjarni> so we have two systems so we are covered if one of them dies
20:09:01  <Hendikins> We get a diagram of the track layout, and it shows what train number (if any) is in a section.
20:09:22  <Bjarni> sometimes the computer that remembers the train numbers forgets all the numbers and then the backup GPS system is nice
20:09:42  <Hendikins> We don't get backup for TLS, but the signallers would have some sort of backup system.
20:09:57  <Hendikins> AFAICT TLS uses a combination of train radio + track circuits.
20:11:01  <Bjarni> Hendikins: <-- this is what our system looks like
20:11:04  <Bjarni> well some of it
20:11:11  <Hendikins> Anything unrecognised by the system will have U??? (starting from U001). Track machines and whatnot will just show up as ****
20:11:18  <Bjarni> to the top left is the Swedish system
20:11:33  <Bjarni> the low row is the Danish system based on location on the track blocks
20:11:39  <Bjarni> and the map is the GPS system
20:11:52  <Hendikins> The one down the bottom is sorta kinda similar to what we see with TLS
20:11:56  <Bjarni> the remaining two screens are schedule and train consists for a specific train
20:12:08  <Hendikins> Unfortunately I don't have a photo of a TLS display, I'll have to take one (or a screenshot) and show you.
20:12:43  <Hendikins> TLS is an information system for stations, not a safety/control system.
20:13:00  <Bjarni> I took this picture some time last year...  I have known for years what it looks like without having a picture of it
20:13:28  <Bjarni> this is pure safety/reroute planning and so on
20:13:50  <Hendikins> Actually, I can do a blurry crop :P
20:14:46  <Bjarni> the guy watching those screens are actually the one to reroute trains to fix when everything goes wrong. He will not inform passengers (somebody else will do that) and he will not control signals either (a 3rd person will do that)
20:15:21  <Bjarni> the screens are mirrors of that the guy with the signals can see though... it's the very same thing
20:15:42  <Hendikins> Bjarni:
20:16:01  <Hendikins> That is a screen that happens to be showing TLS in the background of a photo I took for another reason.
20:16:13  <Bjarni> yeah it's blurry but it's good enough for me to make out what goes on
20:16:28  <Sacro> Bjarni: looks like british IECC
20:16:31  <Bjarni> you have 4 parallel tracks?
20:16:55  <Hendikins> Yep. In that section. Some sections we have more
20:16:57  <hylje> two intercity and two local traffic tracks
20:17:09  <Sacro> up/down fast/slow
20:17:09  <hylje> no major five or six-rail mainlines here :(
20:17:31  <Hendikins> Sacro: They're actually called the up/down main and suburban
20:17:42  <Sacro> Hendikins: yes, i guessed as much
20:17:44  <hylje> props for using right-hand traffic for intercity and left-hand for local
20:17:52  <Hendikins> Get further in and you've got the main, suburban and local
20:18:09  <Bjarni> I think we only have one place with 4 tracks that's controlled from the same screen
20:18:13  <Hendikins> hylje: Sydney Central station has 25 platforms in active use.
20:18:38  <hylje> that central station entry doesn't count :P
20:18:48  <hylje> some nine or ten tracks there
20:18:49  <Bjarni> those are actually 4 interesting tracks as the signal system sees them as 4 independent singleline tracks that just happens to be next to each other
20:18:57  <Bjarni> meaning they have signals for both ways
20:19:15  <Bjarni> so you can set the direction for all of them to be in the same direction if you really have to
20:19:15  <hylje> well there's this thing called fault tolerance...
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20:19:18  <Hendikins> 1 - 15 are terminating roads (Sydney Terminal), 16 - 23 are the suburban (through) platforms (Central Electric), 24/25 are the ESR. 26/27 are not used (never completed)
20:19:52  <hylje> the crazy people around here are trying to get a through (loop) track for the main station
20:20:07  <Bjarni> why is that crazy?
20:20:26  <hylje> because i say so
20:20:31  <Bjarni> ok
20:20:39  <Bjarni> that sounds like a valid reason
20:21:12  <hylje> anyway, the state rail insists there's no room on the main station existing trackage
20:21:30  <hylje> except that they're incredibly sloppy about them
20:21:53  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13334 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move the network settings variables from network/network_internal to settings.
20:22:15  <Hendikins> My parents' flight has landed
20:22:23  <hylje> if something could make them use the platforms efficiently, there'd be no need for the loop
20:22:28  * Hendikins assumes the position, watches for them to walk out
20:22:29  <hylje> capacity-wise
20:22:30  <Bjarni> Hendikins: already?
20:22:35  <Bjarni> are you sure?
20:22:42  <Hendikins> Bjarni: Scheduled 0620, landed 0614.
20:23:06  <Hendikins> Currently 0622, so depending on how quickly they get through customs, they'll walk out any minute now.
20:23:16  <Belugas> Hendikins, i hope you've cleaned the house before them come in...
20:23:22  <Rubidium> lol :)
20:23:36  <Hendikins> Belugas: My father cleaned it before he left. I haven't used anything outside my room :P
20:23:38  <Rubidium> Hendikins: you know that landed means "wheels have touched the tarmac"?
20:23:46  <Rubidium> so that they are not even at the gate yet
20:23:46  <Hendikins> You see, because of my hours, I'm eating at work
20:23:58  <Bjarni> like getting rid of all dirty glasses with lipstick on them as so on
20:24:20  <Bjarni> made their bed so nobody can see that it has been in use
20:24:27  <Bjarni> stuff like that
20:24:27  <Hendikins> Rubidium: I fly often enough to know what "landed" means, how long it should take them to get through if they're lucky, etc.
20:24:56  <Bjarni> are you supposed to pick them up?
20:25:11  <Hendikins> Rubidium: If they're lucky and get through customs quickly (my father is QF staff), they'll be out shortly
20:25:17  <Rubidium> but 8 minutes to go from the landing strip to the terminal via customs (+baggage claim?) seems amazingly quick
20:25:36  <Belugas> jungle airport...
20:25:37  <Hendikins> Rubidium: I've done it in 11 minutes coming back from NZ.
20:26:02  <Hendikins> That is what I use as my baseline "minimum" figure.
20:26:05  <Bjarni> I have also done it in something like that
20:26:21  <Bjarni> but I guess that was because the airport was empty at the time
20:26:35  <Bjarni> the flight was 4 hours late so it was around 2 O'clock during the night
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20:26:40  <Hendikins> It all depends. It helps that my father is QF staff.
20:26:52  <Bjarni> the airport was closed down and lights off except for the path we had to walk
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20:27:03  <Hendikins> They tend to hassle airline staff less from what I can tell.
20:27:05  * Rubidium has not even had a single flight where it took less than 15 minutes to actually get out of the plane from the moment it touched down
20:27:17  <Bjarni> and there was no queue on the baggage either
20:27:29  <hylje> that's just unpossible
20:27:51  <Bjarni> hylje: what is?
20:27:55  <Hendikins> Bjarni: I'm not scheduled to pick them up. However, if I didn't show up at the airport, my mother would ignore the fact I'm doing 10 backshifts in a row and wake me up when she got home.
20:28:02  <hylje> Bjarni: ponies
20:28:13  <Hendikins> So I can either go to bed later and sleep uninterrupted... or get interrupted just after getting to sleep.
20:28:54  <Bjarni> heh
20:28:59  <Hendikins> I figure I'm better off if I show up here, grin and bear it, and sleep undisturbed for 8 hours.
20:29:11  <Bjarni> yeah
20:29:23  <Bjarni> you can't be paid to sleep on the job?
20:29:37  <Hendikins> I could sleep on the job, but I won't do that on principle.
20:30:12  <Hendikins> I'll stay awake on backshift. Not because I have any work to do, but because if anything happens, I can respond to it.
20:30:13  <Bjarni> there is a station not far from here where the control tower was bombed during the war. They then replaced it and nothing happened with the technology in it since (except for the computer that makes a log but doesn't control anything)
20:30:20  <Bjarni> so it can't be remote controlled
20:30:25  <Bjarni> it's manned 24 hours/day
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20:30:58  <Bjarni> during the night there is somebody there who might sleep but the railroad need somebody to be there so they can call and wake them up if they need the station
20:31:07  <Hendikins> Only major stations or stations near important infrastructure tend to get manned 24/7 here.
20:31:21  <peter1138> what hours is this 'backshift'?
20:31:32  <Bjarni> it's the end of the line for 4 different railroads
20:31:42  <Bjarni> hmm
20:31:48  <Bjarni> not really as some of them are merged
20:31:53  <Hendikins> In the Metro South sector, those are Campbelltown (major/yard), Glenfield (points), Liverpool (major/yard), Cabramatta (points), East Hills (points), Kingsgrove (points)
20:31:59  <Bjarni> but it's the end for 5 different lines ;)
20:32:07  <Hendikins> peter1138: Nominally 2200 - 0600, subject to local variation.
20:32:09  <Bjarni> going in 4 different directions
20:32:16  <Bjarni> I think that qualifies as a terminal
20:32:26  <Hendikins> In the case of the station I'm currently working at, it is 2100 - 0500 weekdays and 2200 - 0600 weekends.
20:32:39  <Bjarni> why the difference?
20:33:02  <Hendikins> Presumably because we've got a part time CSA on weekdays
20:33:10  <peter1138> that's usually called "night shift" then, heh
20:33:31  <Bjarni> :)
20:33:36  <Hendikins> peter1138: Night shift, back shift, graveyard shift, whatever you wish to call it.
20:34:05  <Bjarni> graveyard shift sounds nice
20:34:13  <Hendikins> It is referred to as backshift on the NSW railways, hence my use of the term.
20:34:43  <Hendikins> Jargon test: What does "no road" mean?
20:35:14  <Bjarni> I can remember one time when the station manager couldn't go to sleep because we had a train passing in the middle of the night
20:35:18  <Bjarni> now that has to be boring
20:35:28  <Bjarni> sitting up for 3 hours with only one train
20:35:35  <Hendikins> I literally have nothing to do at work between 1:30am and 4:30am
20:35:40  <Hendikins> *nothing*
20:35:43  <Bjarni> and you only control one station so you set signals for entry and departure for that train
20:36:02  <Hendikins> So, who knows what "No road" means?
20:36:15  <Bjarni> <Hendikins> I literally have nothing to do at work between 1:30am and 4:30am <-- then why are you there?
20:36:45  <Bjarni> here they actually planned so one shift ended at 1:45 and the next one started at 4:30
20:36:47  <Hendikins> Bjarni: In case the points fail or there is some other problem.
20:37:27  <Hendikins> I agree, I don't need to be there.
20:37:28  <Bjarni> maybe you should give a better explanation of what it means that the points fail
20:37:33  <Hendikins> They're wasting money paying me to be there.
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20:37:40  <Hendikins> If the points fail I have to wind them by hand.
20:38:06  <Hendikins> This is important because we've got a turnback and four lines merging in to two.
20:38:44  <Bjarni> I still don't get what you mean by point :(
20:38:51  <Hendikins> Switch?
20:38:54  <Hendikins> Crossover?
20:38:56  <Bjarni> ahh
20:39:24  <Bjarni> and what are the odds that they will fail during the night when they aren't used? :P
20:39:36  <Hendikins> Pretty much nil
20:39:44  <Hendikins> Which is why I agree that it is a waste having me there
20:39:54  * Bjarni once saw a switch fail
20:39:56  <Bjarni> and failed hard
20:39:58  <Hendikins> But I can understand having somebody there from before the first train until after the last.
20:39:58  <peter1138> Bjarni only knows Americanese :(
20:40:25  <Hendikins> 508/509 points are for the turnback, 511/512 points are for the main
20:40:33  <Bjarni> peter1138: I didn't talk down to you so why this great insult?
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20:41:16  <Bjarni> I just never seen them described as points before. I have seen them described as switches, turnouts and stuff but not points
20:41:58  <Hendikins> They're normally described as points in UK/Australian English
20:42:13  <Bjarni> ok
20:42:17  <Hendikins> Hence peter1138 pinging you on that.
20:42:35  <Bjarni> then it's odd that I have never encountered this use of the word point before
20:42:49  <Bjarni> not even when I had a visitor from English railroad
20:42:52  <Hendikins> It isn't singular. Always pluralised "points".
20:42:58  <Hendikins> Railway, not railroad.
20:43:13  <Hendikins> There's three ways: The right way, the wrong way, and the railway.
20:43:34  <Bjarni> or to be specific "an English historical heritage railway"
20:44:17  <Hendikins> We're merely arguing semantics anyway. You know what I'm talking about (now)
20:44:37  <Bjarni> yeah
20:44:51  <Bjarni> but they only fail when they are supposed to move
20:45:07  <Bjarni> and fails to do that or lock afterwards
20:45:51  <Hendikins> Or, if they're controlled by the box and they lose detection.
20:46:06  <Bjarni> last time I was on the tracks I repaired "a points".... if it's always plural then how do I say that it's only one?
20:46:06  <Hendikins> They can fail without actually being meant to move.
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20:46:15  <Hendikins> It is a set of points.
20:46:46  <Bjarni> ok
20:46:49  <Hendikins> They're either <something descriptive> points, or simply a set of points.
20:47:00  <Bjarni> right
20:47:16  <Bjarni> in that case I repaired a set of points
20:47:17  <Hendikins> So if somebody tells me 512 points failed, I swear then go down and investigate
20:47:42  <Hendikins> 512 points being on the up
20:48:03  <Bjarni> I really hope you have a set of points numbered 512 and it's not the count of failed points
20:48:41  <Hendikins> Yes, 512 is a specific set of points
20:48:48  <Bjarni> ohh.... babelfish once made one of those
20:49:19  <Hendikins> 512 points are the ones that would be the biggest problem for me if they failed on my shift.
20:49:28  <Bjarni> I use it on a readme in Japanese and it told me to create 230 directories (getting the computer to translate is always faster than looking up a whole lot of words)
20:49:36  <Hendikins> Followed by 511. 508/509 I wouldn't care about too much.
20:49:53  <Bjarni> it was supposed to tell me to create ONE directory called 230
20:50:06  <Bjarni> hmm
20:50:15  <Bjarni> actually the number was 223 but that's besides the point
20:50:34  <Bjarni> the point is that you shouldn't trust babelfish
20:50:56  <Hendikins> Of course.
20:51:45  <Bjarni> it also made another garbage translation (on the same text). It translated 京阪 (Keihan, name of railroad operator) as "Capital阪"
20:51:56  <Bjarni> google translate can actually translate this word correctly
20:52:01  * Hendikins watches the crowd.
20:52:20  <Bjarni> crowd?
20:52:35  <Hendikins> Still waiting at arrivals at the airport.
20:52:45  <Bjarni> ahh
20:52:46  <Bjarni> right
20:53:00  <Bjarni> so you use wifi?
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20:53:06  <Hendikins> 3G
20:53:30  <Hendikins> Not only does Sydney Airport lack free wifi, it chews up rather more battery than this does.
20:54:33  <hylje> edge (or straight gprs) is enough for ircin
20:55:04  <Bjarni> we got really crappy 3G coverage
20:55:10  <Bjarni> so I will not invest in it
20:55:34  <Bjarni> it's really expensive to use too once you actually find a spot where it works
20:57:58  *** Apokalipz [~Apokalipz@] has joined #openttd
20:58:00  <Apokalipz> Click on that link to get some awesome free prizes such as Anime, Video Games, Nexon Cards, and much more. All you have to do is click on that link, sign up, and start earning points by completing the surveys and 100% free offers (No credit card required). Its that easy! So what are you waiting for? Click on that given link, sign up, and start earning those points!
20:58:27  <Rubidium> @kick Apokalipz
20:58:33  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*Apokalipz@76.205.125.*] by Bjarni
20:58:38  <Rubidium> booh :(
20:59:08  *** Apokalipz was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [this channel doesn't allow commercials]
20:59:34  <peter1138> yay
20:59:42  <peter1138> last ubuntu update fixes compiz shadows :D
20:59:49  <Hendikins> Well, they've arrived.
20:59:57  <Bjarni> nice
21:00:33  <Bjarni> for a split sec I thought "who?" because Apokalipz and ubuntu took my attention
21:00:46  <Bjarni> not to mention the footsteps I just heard on the staircase
21:01:07  <Bjarni> Hendikins: so we will see you later... have fun :)
21:01:15  <Hendikins> I'm not disappearing.
21:01:21  <Hendikins> I'm here until this battery goes flat :P
21:01:38  <Bjarni> ok...
21:02:02  *** [com]buster [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:02:05  <Bjarni> so if we want to get rid of you we should send diff files to you and ask you to test them
21:02:28  *** [com]buster [] has joined #openttd
21:02:32  <Hendikins> Not right now. I'm dead on my feet.
21:03:14  <Hendikins> I'll take a screenshot of the TLS view of Central for you though, when I go to work tonight.
21:03:22  <Hendikins> It is *crazy* how much we've got there.
21:05:15  <Bjarni> actually the question is no longer if you can get the information you want
21:05:33  <Bjarni> the question is if you can get the information you want without drowning in info you don't want
21:06:02  <Bjarni> like do you want to know the state of each set of points all the time?
21:06:15  <Bjarni> of every single signal?
21:06:17  <Bjarni> and so on
21:06:26  <Bjarni> sometimes yes and sometimes no
21:06:43  <Hendikins> The only time I find out about the status of the points is if operations call me because of them failing
21:07:36  <Bjarni> see
21:07:57  <Bjarni> you don't need them on a regular basis so they filtered out that info on your screen
21:08:03  <Bjarni> the system knows this info though
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21:10:20  <Bjarni> time to sleep
21:10:31  <Bjarni> my body just told me so ;)
21:10:37  <Bjarni> goodnight
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21:31:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> sweden is the scandinavian version of bielefeld ;)
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21:36:12  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13335 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: remove rogue (debugging) printf.
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21:36:22  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13336 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: loading old savegames, e.g. the intro game, would reset the autosave settings.
21:36:41  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13337 /trunk/src/settings_type.h: -Doc: add documentation to some variables in settings_type.h.
21:37:42  <SmatZ> r13337 wow
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21:39:44  <peter1138> openttd is leeet
21:39:55  <SmatZ> :-)
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21:58:38  <peter1138> nini
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22:22:14  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13338 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Doc: add documentation about the window placement. Patch by Alberth.
22:24:34  <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: You broke it.
22:26:29  <Rubidium> I always break stuff
22:26:46  <Rubidium> and annoyingly people can't even find the most obvious bugs
22:27:01  <Prof_Frink> For that brief 50 minutes, openttd was leeet.
22:27:15  <Rubidium> now it is *more* than leeet
22:27:44  <SmatZ> :-D
22:27:56  <Rubidium> it'll be elite / eleet in a few years though
22:27:56  <Prof_Frink> Oh well, you'll have to make 18k more commits
22:28:05  <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: :)
22:28:14  <SmatZ> hehe Rubidium :-)
22:28:38  <Rubidium> and ileet/ilete/ilite before that
22:28:47  <Rubidium> (all sounds the same)
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23:34:01  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13339 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: splitting of the main toolbar when the resolution becomes very low so the buttons are still visible and useable. Patch by Dominik.
23:34:11  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13340 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: graphics to be used for the split toolbar on low resolutions.
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