Log for #openttd on 8th July 2008:
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00:27:05  <ijustam> hi all, my stations (under single player only) orient the wrong way:
00:27:12  <ijustam> whats up with that?
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00:29:41  <glx> you selected the wrong orientation
00:30:44  <ijustam> eh
00:30:47  <ijustam> leads to
00:31:28  <SmatZ> yeah
00:31:36  <glx> yes you selected exactly what you built
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00:32:12  <ijustam> but... it's facing the wrong direction?
00:32:16  <ijustam> i think im missing something here
00:32:47  <glx> no it's facing the selected direction
00:33:09  <glx> and you built 4 tracks of lenght 1
00:33:21  <ijustam> oh shit
00:33:33  <ijustam> christ im out of it today
00:33:34  <ijustam> :(
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00:33:57  <Cyclonerotary> lol ijustam
00:34:05  <ijustam> man
00:34:09  <ijustam> thats embarrassing
00:34:13  <Cyclonerotary> just have lots of tiny trains :-)
00:34:40  <Cyclonerotary> do i have to download an addon fro trams?
00:34:56  <glx> Cyclonerotary: what version are you using?
00:36:43  <Cyclonerotary> whatever was top of the download list
00:36:47  <Cyclonerotary> got it maybe a week ago
00:37:37  <SmatZ> Cyclonerotary: does the NewGRF Settings window show Generic Tram Set 0.4 ?
00:37:38  <glx> 0.6.1 is provided with a tram grf
00:38:42  <Cyclonerotary> i just added it glx thanks for your help :-)
00:38:54  <Cyclonerotary> also SmatZ
00:39:00  <SmatZ> good :)
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00:42:39  <Cyclonerotary> are trams anygood?
00:44:57  <Belugas> i'd say so, Cyclonerotary
00:45:26  <Belugas> on a recent game i played, i sold all my busses after completion of a trams network :)
00:45:49  <Belugas> 3 trams made as much, if not more, tham 10 busses
00:45:58  <Cyclonerotary> i rarely use busses
00:46:17  <Belugas> I use them a lot
00:46:27  <Cyclonerotary> do busses across one city make it grow or does it have to be between 2?
00:47:46  <Sacro> @seen Bjarni
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00:47:46  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 4 hours, 39 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I didn't have any
00:47:48  <Sacro> hmm
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00:47:54  <Sacro> <- ahh the danish amuse me
00:47:58  <Sacro> Lakie: zomg stealker
00:47:59  <Sacro> err
00:48:01  <Sacro> stalker
00:48:12  <Lakie> mhmm?
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02:33:13  <Belugas> i am realistically bored by the wish of realism integration in thisnot realistic game
02:33:17  <Belugas> damn it
02:33:35  <dvdb> ^^
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07:00:03  <dih> 08:58 <@Belugas> [04:33:13] i am realistically bored by the wish of realism integration in thisnot realistic game <- i second you on that ;-)
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07:31:06  <DJNekkid> if i apply this line to a wagon sprite, should i not make this wagon smaller by 00 (inbetween 01 and 80), i.e. makeing it fullsize?
07:31:07  <DJNekkid> -1 * 0  02 00 B1 81 0C 00 FF 01 00 80 11 11 B0 00
07:32:02  <Forked> lo dj :)
07:32:06  <DJNekkid> hi Forked
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07:38:57  <ln> begin of discussion
07:39:21  <GoneWacko> end of dicussion
07:41:43  <dih> lol
07:41:50  <ln>
07:42:35  <dih> sweet
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07:52:46  <ln> i wouldn't be surprised if that story becomes slashdotted.
07:54:04  <Forked> and digged
07:54:07  <Forked> or dugg rather
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08:42:22  <ln>
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08:58:52  <planetmaker> morning
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09:50:01  <Ammler> some long life servers:
09:55:42  <peter1138> heh
09:55:58  <peter1138> are those extra fields shown in trunk?
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09:59:17  <Ammler> peter1138: no, but a nice patch
10:00:14  <Ammler> they automatically appear on resizing.
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10:14:18  <peter1138> hm
10:17:51  <MorgyN> 24838 years?
10:18:04  <MorgyN> do you login and its just an inhabitable wasteland?
10:18:29  <MorgyN> *un-inhabitable
10:18:30  <MorgyN> oops
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11:45:30  <Rubidium> michi_cc: I've got another very similar YAPF crash in YAPP, though sadly enough I've not been able to reproduce it as of yet :(
11:52:18  <Ammler> is the new YAPP release worth to test again our asserts?
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12:01:31  <peter1138> probably
12:01:35  <peter1138> no point in testing old stuff
12:01:42  <peter1138> unless you meant latest vs none
12:04:58  <Ammler> just asking, if our reported bugs should be fixed there, or we need to wait...
12:16:51  <eekee> well if they're not tested, how does anyone know if they're fixed?
12:18:15  <peter1138> indeed
12:18:25  <planetmaker> eekee: the author should know :)
12:18:40  <peter1138> failing that, you ask michi_cc directly. we are not involved in it
12:19:47  <eekee> planetmaker: no not really, if the bug doesn't show itself in his usage, then he won't know at all
12:20:19  <planetmaker> eekee: he should know wether he fixed or at least try to fix it since the bug report.
12:20:58  <Ammler> peter1138: just asked, because Rubidium did highlight him anyway :-)
12:21:50  <Ammler> v8.1 didn't fix much from our tests.
12:22:09  <Ammler> so I let it be testing further...
12:22:21  <eekee> planetmaker: that is true, but bugs and features don't exist in isolation from each other, they interact in annoying ways
12:23:05  <peter1138> i'd say always test the latest version
12:23:23  <eekee> yeah me too
12:23:27  <planetmaker> eekee: I know :). But yapp doesn't need (nor got) more features, but bug fixes. So it should be a valid questions wether all asserts reported in the last test led to some code modification
12:23:31  <peter1138> even if your bugs aren't fixed, you might end up finding new ones, heh
12:24:35  <eekee> planetmaker: 'k then :)
12:24:38  <Ammler> indeed :-P
12:24:39  <planetmaker> hehe. Since that test on our server I appreciate you devs' reluctance to deal with bigger patches much more :)
12:28:52  <Noldo> are there simple test cases for the old asserts?
12:29:53  <planetmaker> depends. Look at the thread and the description
12:32:11  <Ammler> Noldo: made summary of the asserts here:
12:33:07  <Ammler> that one is more a feature request:
12:36:42  <planetmaker> <- and this one tells us, that our asserts shouldn't happen anymore
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12:48:19  <Ammler> planetmaker: It did just "move" the assert :-)
12:49:05  <planetmaker> o_O
12:49:17  <planetmaker> replace typhus with cholera?
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13:47:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Belugas> i am realistically bored by the wish of realism integration in thisnot realistic game <- technically, i'd value aesthetics a tiny bit more significant than realism
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13:54:28  <Belugas> aesthetics, i don't mind, as long as it's not aimed at making it all look like real life, same proportions and all... there is where i find it utterly boring
13:54:41  <Belugas> wow... first time i use "utterly" :)
13:55:38  <Belugas> stolen trees are a good example
13:55:56  <Belugas> they are good looking, yet, the proportions are not "real"
13:56:38  <Gekz> Belugas: you have a hard time with tense, don't you?
13:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> screw the proportions ;)
13:59:03  <Belugas> Gekz: Me? no. Why?
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13:59:13  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2, exactly :)
13:59:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i would like slightly longer wagons
14:00:33  <Gekz> Belugas: you screwed up your tense in "wow... first time i use "utterly" :)"
14:00:38  <Gekz> and I've seen you do it a few times before
14:00:54  <Gekz> you used present tense there, where it should have been past
14:01:03  <Gekz> "I've used"
14:01:06  <Belugas> tense?  i may not follow you there... what do you mean?
14:01:09  <Belugas> ho...
14:01:13  <Gekz> past, present, future
14:01:15  <Belugas> yeas...
14:01:18  <Belugas> indeed
14:01:29  <Gekz> if you dont mind, I'll correct you in the future
14:01:31  <Gekz> to help you out
14:01:32  <Gekz> :)
14:01:35  * Gekz is a language nazi
14:01:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> this could be "easily" accomplished, imho, there should be a flag for vehicles in an articulated chain saying "no bend", where the vehicle always gets directly attached to the previous vehicle (in curves), but behaves like a normal vehicle for visibility purposes/bounding boxes (e.g. in tunnels)
14:01:56  <Belugas> well.. as you know, i'm a french speaker and i've yet been able to master english properly.  yes, your help may be appreciated :)
14:02:13  <Lord> Hi Rubidium, I just wanted to thank you for fixing those TTD savegame "bugs" so quickly. Any idea when those bugfixes will be made official with a new stable release (0.6.2 or 0.7.0)?
14:02:24  <Gekz> Belugas: I'm going to New Caledonia tomorrow :D
14:02:24  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2, seems like a "George" plan ;)
14:02:25  <Gekz> for a week
14:02:33  <Gekz> French only :o
14:02:38  <Belugas> nice Gekz :)
14:02:41  <Belugas> have fun !
14:02:45  <Gekz> I will.
14:02:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> not at all... i said longer, not bigger ;)
14:02:56  <Gekz> I only know 2 months of french lol
14:03:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> trust me, you wouldn't be much better with 4 years of french :p
14:04:23  <Gekz> lol
14:04:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> (that is, unless you have regular intensive contact with french speakers)
14:04:37  <Gekz> Je parle francais un peu!
14:04:41  <Gekz> I lack the cedilla.
14:04:52  <glx> ç <-- take it ;)
14:05:02  <Belugas> i don't know how to write it with my own keyboard :)
14:05:03  <Gekz> I recompiled my entire laptop
14:05:07  <Gekz> havent fixed my xorg.conf
14:05:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> ç <-
14:05:16  <Gekz> its 8 or 9 on AZERTY
14:05:21  <glx> 9
14:05:30  <Gekz> do the french really use that terrible keyboard regularly?
14:05:35  <Gekz> its barely suited to ANY language
14:05:35  <glx> yes
14:05:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> AltGr+Accent,C here
14:05:43  <Gekz> it lacks the ethel
14:05:58  <Gekz> and it has the section symbol and micro symbol
14:05:59  <Gekz> why
14:06:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> requires accent to be a dead key
14:06:27  <Gekz> mmm dead keys
14:06:28  <Gekz> what OS?
14:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> openSUSE
14:06:43  <Gekz> unfun
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14:09:53  <Gekz> hmm
14:09:57  <Gekz> Gentoo is quite fun
14:10:01  <Gekz> as long as you don't get all elitist about it
14:10:10  <Gekz> and think you're super hardcore because you can use a USE flag
14:10:20  <Gekz> and compile with -Os -march=pentium-m
14:10:32  <peter1138> as long as you don't want to use it
14:10:57  <Gekz> use what
14:11:06  <Gekz> "it" isn't very specific
14:11:16  <Gekz> there was at least 3 subjects
14:11:18  <MorgyN> and have a lot of free time
14:11:45  <Gekz> how does running emerge miscellaneous-shit before going to bed require free time?
14:11:57  <SmatZ> I don't have problem with compiling at background
14:12:04  <MorgyN> because you missed a flag and it borked after the 2nd object file
14:12:06  <SmatZ> everything works fine :)
14:12:07  <Gekz> I needed an optimised system for my 600Mhz
14:12:19  <Gekz> I want firefox to be able to run with mplayer without it burning
14:12:26  <SmatZ> and if you really want to have something installed quickly, you can install binary package...
14:12:27  <Gekz> MorgyN: I dont fail that much
14:12:45  <Gekz> Gentoo isn't for everyoen
14:12:49  <Gekz> I don't even advocate it
14:12:54  <MorgyN> run away, its the gentoo zealots! *flees*
14:12:55  <Gekz> I use Debian on my desktop
14:13:03  <Gekz> I use Gentoo on my EeePC
14:13:04  <Gekz> :D
14:14:03  * peter1138 ponders a new telly
14:14:18  <MorgyN> 1080p all the wya
14:14:19  <MorgyN> *way
14:14:20  <MorgyN> \o/
14:14:25  <peter1138> plasma or lcd though
14:14:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Gekz> as long as you don't get all elitist about it <- says the guy who starts the OS flamewar... The Irony...
14:14:43  <MorgyN> lcd
14:14:48  <peter1138> hmm, or should i wait for the next dtv standard to come
14:15:00  <MorgyN> plasma is a pita with burn in
14:16:15  <SmatZ> LFS is elitic :-P
14:16:25  <SmatZ> Gentoo is LFS for lazy ;-)
14:16:36  <peter1138> hmm, at least 600 quid... maybe not
14:17:02  * peter1138 shall wait, what with the dtv box not being hd yet
14:17:23  <MorgyN> dtv?
14:17:33  <peter1138> dvb-t
14:17:49  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause2: wha?
14:18:04  * Belugas fills his cell phone with lottsa music
14:18:06  <MorgyN> most modern tvs have dvb-t built in
14:18:10  <Gekz> I didn't get elitist.
14:18:12  <Belugas> got a 4gig to fill!
14:18:17  <peter1138> yes, but it's still not HD
14:18:18  <Gekz> Gentoo is FreeBSD + Linux kernel
14:18:28  <MorgyN> They are here =/
14:18:37  <MorgyN> britain that is
14:18:48  <peter1138> ...
14:18:54  <peter1138> no they're not
14:18:54  <MorgyN> bbc do HD freeview broadcasts from certain transmitters
14:19:21  <Gekz> epdfview kicks ass
14:19:35  <ben_goodger> Gekz: I'm pretty sure Gentoo GNU/Linux is actually GNU, not FreeBSD
14:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> <MorgyN> most modern tvs have dvb-t built in <- which is useless, when they're going to switch to DVB-T2 :p
14:20:22  <peter1138> i thought that was testing
14:20:25  <MorgyN> ahh ok, was a trial =)
14:20:40  <Gekz> ben_goodger: thank you for entirely missing the point.
14:20:43  <peter1138> DVB-T2 or something is due soon
14:20:51  <peter1138> end of next year
14:21:08  <Gekz> ben_goodger: also, if you want to get smart, gentoo has the fbsd kernel available as well
14:21:14  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: exactly my reasoning :)
14:21:39  <peter1138> if i buy now, i'll end up with a tv with yet another stb, heh
14:21:48  <MorgyN> so all the DVB-T boxes will be useless soon...
14:22:07  <MorgyN> I can see that going down well, lots of people arent ready for the analogue switch off
14:22:25  <peter1138> yeah
14:22:32  <peter1138> possibly they can run both side by side
14:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> the analogue switch-off is like what? 2 years away?
14:22:34  <ben_goodger> MorgyN: I think it can be presumed that the systems will be backward-compatible on some level
14:22:41  <peter1138> with analogue gone there'll be lots of free space
14:22:47  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause2: it's less than eight months away in my part of the UK
14:22:54  <peter1138> ben_goodger: fundamentally it can't be
14:22:59  <MorgyN> dvb-t2 boxes can read dvb-t but not the other way round
14:22:59  <ben_goodger> or some very similar timescale
14:22:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, i have DVB-S :p
14:23:08  <MorgyN> peter1138: they arent freeing up that space for tv tho
14:23:14  <peter1138> :(
14:23:19  <peter1138> muppets
14:23:21  <MorgyN> that space is going to be reused for mobiles or something
14:23:50  <peter1138> satellite can piss off
14:23:53  <ben_goodger> peter1138: then they'll be broadcast simultaneously. it would be massively stupid to make DVB-T unusable after marketing it continually for five years
14:23:57  <peter1138> along with that fellow who runs it all
14:24:36  <peter1138> when i bought my house i took down the sat dish :D
14:25:08  <MorgyN> what about freesat tho?
14:25:28  <MorgyN> arent they putting the bbc hd channels on that
14:25:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm thinking about dropping TV altogether... there's only rubbish on anyway
14:25:54  <Forked> good call
14:25:58  <Forked> I did that a couple of years ago :)
14:25:59  <MorgyN> godbless bittorrent *ahem*
14:26:09  <Forked> even if I can now get it for free through work
14:26:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> anything relevant can be retrieved over the intartubes :p
14:26:19  <ben_goodger> MorgyN: indeed
14:26:31  <Forked> or on dvd
14:26:38  <MorgyN> Till the EU 3 strikes malarky =(
14:26:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> a year early even :p
14:26:41  <Belugas> don't like satellite either
14:26:46  <Belugas> cable is better
14:26:54  <MorgyN> Not in the uk =(
14:27:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> cable is not really that much of an option in a rural area ;)
14:27:12  <MorgyN> the bandwidth that virgin gives per channel is appalling
14:27:20  <Forked> iptv :o
14:27:20  <MorgyN> due to them still using qos64
14:27:24  <ben_goodger> Belugas: cable stops 50km east of here
14:27:26  <Noldo> the 3 strikes thing sends an iteresting signal
14:27:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> plus, they charge extra for the cable, and then another extra for the digital channels on the cable
14:28:07  <Forked> maybe I should get myself an anonymous internet connection with no real trace back to me in any system at my isp .. where I happen to work
14:28:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> Noldo: yeah, convict people without proper trial by non-state-organisations
14:28:28  <Noldo> that too
14:28:40  <Belugas> too bad ben_goodger :(
14:29:04  <Belugas> here, it's quite afordable and largely distributed
14:29:07  <Belugas> +f
14:29:08  <MorgyN> not to mention you can fool the detection systems
14:29:12  <MorgyN> someone you don't like
14:29:27  <MorgyN> find thier ip and put it on the p2p networks
14:29:30  <MorgyN> \o/
14:29:55  <glx> <Eddi|zuHause2> cable is not really that much of an option in a rural area ;) <-- even in towns
14:30:12  <MorgyN> there was that group that managed to get a Cease and Desist sent to thier printer =)
14:30:32  <MorgyN> (ip assigned only to printer, downloading infringing material etc)
14:30:45  <Forked> ye I liked that one
14:31:03  <Noldo> internet connection is starting to be important way to access different services
14:31:37  <Noldo> in the same way that telephone and maybe earlier some forms of public transport were
14:33:03  <Noldo> with the 3 strikes it is ok to separate a person from the services because of a some what minor incident
14:34:10  <Forked> mmm vdsl2
14:34:45  <MorgyN> hurm
14:34:59  <MorgyN> wonder if I can put a dish in the attic...
14:35:09  <peter1138> petri dish
14:35:18  <peter1138> hmm, wonder where my dish went
14:35:27  <peter1138> think it's lament in a corner of the garden
14:35:31  <peter1138> +ing
14:35:39  <peter1138> 'orrible things
14:35:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> MorgyN: won't do much good without a direct visual connection
14:35:53  <Forked> suddenly there was a hole in the roof
14:36:06  <peter1138> why? it's not optical...
14:36:16  <MorgyN> well unless I create a hole with some radio invisible material
14:36:38  <MorgyN> only tiles in the way... probably affect radio less than clouds =)
14:37:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: yes, but it electromagnetic waves of these frequencies are very easily absorbed by solid material
14:37:02  <MorgyN> snow will balls it tho ;D
14:37:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> e.g. the skyscraper next to your house :p
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14:37:57  <peter1138> i don't know what range of frequencies are used
14:38:05  <peter1138> probably the sort that cooks me while i live
14:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> even holding a hand in front of the LNB will kill any connection
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14:38:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> something around 10GHz i believe
14:39:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> i've had cases where clouds were so dense that recieving broke
14:40:08  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause2: as a experienced NewGRF user, what do you think about: ?
14:42:48  <Belugas> you want an additionnal file that would include/describe stuff already in the grf???
14:42:49  <peter1138> haha
14:43:01  <Ammler> Belugas: no
14:43:05  <peter1138> already one useless post :)
14:43:08  <peter1138> personally
14:43:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not really sure what you want to achieve with that
14:43:15  <peter1138> i think if done right it's a good idea
14:43:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> save some preset GRF-configurations in there or something?
14:43:28  <peter1138> think of all those newbies who just add everything and wonder why it's messed up...
14:43:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> some kind of machine-readable readme?
14:43:38  <Gekz> I love noobies
14:43:44  <peter1138> no, those are boobies
14:43:47  <Ammler> Belugas: specailly the parameter handling is very hard.
14:43:58  * peter1138 has grf presets, heh
14:44:06  <peter1138> hmm, i guess i didn't add that, heh
14:44:17  <Belugas> not for those who are readin the readmes, Ammler ;)
14:44:22  <Belugas> no you didn't, peter1138 :)
14:44:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> of course you do, peter1138 :p
14:44:38  <peter1138> "reading the readmes" is all very well
14:44:49  <peter1138> but at least one set has had a readme that is only in pdf format
14:44:59  <peter1138> not very useful when setting up a server, for example
14:45:03  <Ammler> Belugas: a configuration can't read the readme proper :P
14:45:12  <Ammler> configuration tool
14:45:35  <Belugas> no indeed, but reading it would greatly help configuring it properly :S
14:45:56  <Ammler> and how would you save those infos?
14:46:36  <Belugas> ho... but indeed, i forgot... these days, it's a "grab-all-grfs-no-matter-what" frenzy and then ask why it does not work...
14:46:54  <Gekz> lol
14:46:59  <Gekz> I've never done that
14:47:05  <Gekz> I had 12 GRFs running the first time I ever tried
14:47:08  <Gekz> no conflicts
14:47:25  <Rubidium> we should make a real world analog of that ;)
14:47:28  <Ammler> I wonder how many can combine TTRS and dbsetxl
14:47:36  <Gekz> Loll.
14:47:48  <Gekz> Rubidium: explain
14:47:58  <Gekz> analog or analogy*
14:48:12  <Rubidium> the latter
14:48:47  <Gekz> ok
14:48:49  <Rubidium> like a car where you add 20 engines and 40 wheels and 5 steering wheels and then wondering why it doesn't work like a normal car
14:48:54  <Gekz> lol
14:49:16  <Gekz> I like the quote "Can you build webpages with firefox?"
14:49:19  <Gekz> and the comeback:
14:49:24  <Gekz> "Can you build cars with roads?"
14:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> i love real world analogies... especially with stupid maths questions ;)
14:49:45  <Gekz> lol
14:49:50  <Gekz> sqrt(pi)
14:50:00  <Gekz> sqrt(pi^2)
14:50:19  <MorgyN> mmm pie
14:50:34  <Gekz> Proto-indo-european!
14:51:05  <Ammler> and another big problem is that many GRF devs just didn't code dependencies.
14:51:12  * Belugas reads one more time Ammler's suggestion, just in case something eluded him
14:52:11  <MorgyN> clearly need to swap to RPMs...
14:52:23  <Ammler> :-)
14:52:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think you should work out some proper use cases, Ammler.
14:53:11  <Belugas> exclusiveOfType=<list:Trains,Industries,...>  <--- that is restrictive and not really usefull.
14:53:30  <Belugas> does not bring much, apart the content, i think
14:54:20  <Ammler> that could be used from i.e. canset.
14:55:26  <Belugas> fuck canset
14:55:36  <Ammler> isn't availabe anymore.
14:55:48  <Ammler> you blamed him away :-)
14:56:35  <Ammler> he took the whole set out of the net.
14:57:02  <Belugas> me?  naaaa... he said he wanted some time to make it more usable or something
14:57:07  <Ammler> but there are also industry sets like PBI
14:57:15  <Ammler> which you shouldn't use with ECS etc.
14:57:32  <Rubidium> you shouldn't use ECS anyways ;)
14:57:47  <Ammler> and ECS has plenty of bit switches...
14:59:35  <Ammler> combining bridge sets with roadsets...
14:59:53  <Ammler> we need something to store "the experience".
15:01:20  <Ammler> hmm, there is a lot more, then just wat I have there.
15:02:33  <Ammler> [16:43] * peter1138 has grf presets, heh <-- we thought about that, too.
15:04:34  <Belugas> was it finished, peter1138?
15:06:26  *** Purno [] has joined #openttd
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15:10:54  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13681 /trunk/src/ (elrail.cpp openttd.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h):
15:10:54  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Revert (r13678, r13677): the fixes didn't work in all cases (assertions on savegame loads).
15:10:54  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2102]: but now in a hopefully beter way.
15:11:48  <Ammler> peter1138: do you have documentation how to make those presets?
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15:14:03  <Ammler> or is it "just" a snippet from the [newgrf] segtion?
15:14:05  <Ammler> c
15:15:57  <Belugas> not even in trunk, Ammler
15:16:06  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:16:28  <Ammler> Belugas: I hope so, else it would be a shame not to know it :-)
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15:21:45  <peter1138> exactly the same as a [newgrf] section
15:24:04  *** Zealotus [] has joined #openttd
15:24:24  <Ammler> a function like loadingOnlyNewGRFconf
15:24:36  <Ammler> (and save)
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15:25:10  <Ammler> save isn't needed, that would be more "export" then :-)
15:26:04  <peter1138> what?
15:26:18  <Gekz> going to bed
15:26:20  <Gekz> night
15:26:28  <Gekz> see you guys next wednesday
15:27:03  <Ammler> peter1138: just another idea :-)
15:27:21  <Ammler> (extracting NewGRF conf from a save.
15:27:45  <peter1138> oh
15:27:59  <peter1138> well, load the savegame then save the config as a preset
15:28:17  <Ammler> yeah, that would be cool! (k)
15:28:43  <DaleStan> DJNekkid: That NFO looks fine to me. Load it in TTDPatch and Grfdebug it.
15:29:03  *** lobster [~michielbi@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:40:13  <Ammler> peter1138: do you mind, I try your patch?
15:45:00  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
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15:48:25  <peter1138> if you can find it
15:49:14  <MorgyN> If you have a patch, if no one else can test, and if you can find it...
15:49:25  <MorgyN> maybe you can hire...
15:49:37  <Chrill> hire Poles, they're the cheapest
15:49:55  <MorgyN> Not anymore
15:50:00  <Chrill> oh?
15:50:05  <Chrill> Well, the Baltics then?
15:50:11  <MorgyN> Probably!
15:50:19  <Chrill> Fine, bring me a  Lithuanian one
15:50:29  <MorgyN> *snaps fingers*
15:50:46  <MorgyN> Hedonism, on a budget.
15:52:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can use draakon :p
15:53:04  <glx> wrong country Eddi|zuHause2
15:53:19  <Belugas> Don't mention that name, Eddi|zuHause2!!
15:53:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it is some baltic thing
15:56:08  <dih> _it_ is _some_ baltic _thing_ LOL
15:56:19  <Ammler> peter1138: reason for holding back? It is that nice!
15:56:27  <peter1138> er, well
15:57:08  <peter1138> other than i've not touched any code for two weeks...
15:57:30  <dih> :-P
15:57:38  <dih> explains the low commit number :-P
15:59:02  <Belugas> hey... can we have some down time too ??
15:59:27  * MorgyN hunts for the "motivational" whip
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15:59:59  <andy_> hey all x.x
16:00:17  <dih> Belugas, never complained did i?
16:01:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: would you even accept a "no" for an answer? :p
16:01:04  <andy_> hello, can anyone help me please find a guide to change the newgrf limit ? =x
16:01:19  <Ammler> :-D
16:01:39  <glx> why do you need more than 62 grfs?
16:01:40  * dih pats andy_ on the head
16:01:42  <DaleStan> Switch to TTDPatch?
16:01:51  <DaleStan> But indeed. What glx said.
16:01:52  * dih slaps DaleStan
16:01:57  <dih> :P
16:02:05  <andy_> well i downloaded the openttdcoop pack thingy
16:02:10  <Ammler> omg
16:02:12  <andy_> not all the grfs loaded =x lol
16:02:25  <andy_> there was some post in forum that said u could change the limit
16:02:26  <peter1138> you're not supposed to load them all at once
16:02:31  <Ammler> that pack is only for multiplayer usage.
16:02:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Rubidium> like a car where you add 20 engines and 40 wheels and 5 steering wheels and then wondering why it doesn't work like a normal car
16:02:40  <andy_> x_x well i only play single xD
16:02:54  <Ammler> you will then load the needed GRFs automatically
16:03:30  <andy_> which grf contains the refitt thing ?
16:03:38  <Ammler> for ECS?
16:03:41  <DaleStan> Which refitt thing?
16:03:46  <dih> look at the grftable where you got the grf pack from
16:04:09  <dih> and read some wiki pages, perhaps hat
16:05:25  <andy_> x_x i found the table, hmm so the max is 62 ? wokie.
16:06:38  <dih> the wooky is in #starwars
16:07:03  <dih> and you might rather find him there as chewbacka
16:07:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> "chewbacca" was last mentioned in buffy season 8 ;)
16:08:51  <Belugas> andy_: that 62 value is a limit due to the networking exchange.  Even if you play "solo"  (Han Solo hohoho), that limit is still in place.  Plus, honestly, 62 grfs is an awfull lot of stuff.  I bvet you do not know all that those are bringing you  ;)
16:09:33  <Belugas> or if some are even useless once some others are loaded...
16:10:28  <Ammler> Belugas: that Limit is reachable since engine_pool
16:10:49  <Ammler> there are some single GRFs with only one vehicle
16:11:25  <Belugas> pffffft
16:11:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> i expect that number to rise in the future ;)
16:11:39  <Ammler> Bilbo
16:11:48  <andy_> x_X u can change the limit in fios.h ? lol x.x wtb c knowledge.
16:11:52  <Belugas> yu need to tackle down the network packet code for that
16:12:24  <Belugas> don't x_X think x_x it would be X_X enough andy_
16:12:50  <Gekz> subways
16:12:55  <Gekz> I dream of an ottd with subways
16:12:58  <Gekz> yes, I'm still awake
16:12:59  <Gekz> at 2am
16:12:59  <Gekz> lol
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16:14:08  <peter1138> engine pool was designed to allow larger sets, not necessarily lots of individual vehicles
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16:19:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: people do not always use features in the way they were designed for :p
16:19:37  <Belugas> their fault...
16:19:56  <Belugas> i use my car as a boat, now it is sinking :(
16:20:03  <Belugas> FIX IT!
16:20:05  <Belugas> o_O
16:22:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: no, more like "i bought this 200PS car, and now it is using 30l/100km while driving through the city"
16:25:53  <MorgyN> arg
16:25:56  <MorgyN> far too metric!
16:25:59  * MorgyN flees
16:28:53  <peter1138> indeed
16:28:59  <peter1138> PS -> HP, please
16:29:04  <peter1138> and l/km -> MPG
16:29:16  <andy_> so many grf's too manyy /cry
16:29:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> indeed, PS is german ;)
16:32:20  <Belugas> PONDHERR SHCRAFT!
16:33:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever that's supposed to mean :p
16:34:52  <Belugas> not supposed to mean anything :D
16:34:59  <Belugas> just sounds like german!!
16:35:15  <Belugas> spoken by a french speaker, that is  ;)
16:36:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> they had some funny german in the last Doctor Who episode ;)
16:36:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> and funnily no subtitles :p
16:36:38  <Prof_Frink> Extermineiren!
16:36:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> ie!
16:37:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> like in "Wiener"
16:38:32  <Eddi|zuHause2>ÃŒrstchen
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16:47:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> apart from the strange accent, the location given is also weird... "60 miles outside nuremberg" places you almost in munich, or like halfway to berlin
16:48:14  *** Doorslammer|BRSet [] has quit []
16:52:40  <MorgyN> you give Russell T Davies too much credit =)
16:52:48  <MorgyN> random number + place from history book
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16:53:34  <MorgyN> much like his solutions to problems.. ie "stick the screwdriver", or pick 3 random techical words and pull a lever.
16:54:07  <MorgyN> not to forget his hail mary plays.. such as thinking of one word, or all phones claptrap..
16:54:10  <MorgyN> *rants*
16:54:31  <Prof_Frink> MorgyN: Calm, down, it's Moffat for the 2010 series
16:54:44  <MorgyN> *breathes into a paper bag*
16:54:59  <Prof_Frink> So expect death, and lots of it
16:55:09  <MorgyN> \o/
16:55:25  <MorgyN> blink was brilliant.
16:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> the girl in the fireplace is my very favourite episode
16:56:35  <ben_goodger> MorgyN: RTD was a brilliant writer. his talent departed with christopher eccleston
16:57:40  <Prof_Frink> Hmm, that's a point. RTD: Sonic screwdriver is the answer to any problem. Moffat: It doesn't do wood.
16:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, if you have a boyfriend, you sometimes need the element of surprise :p
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17:04:37  <MorgyN> ben_goodger: He didn't write much of that season did he?
17:04:53  <Wolf01> hello
17:05:11  <Prof_Frink> BadWolf01!
17:05:28  <MorgyN> ben_goodger: oops nope he did =)
17:06:00  <MorgyN> heh mark gatis wrote an episode ;D
17:06:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> Spoilers! :p
17:08:35  <ben_goodger> hmm
17:08:48  <ben_goodger> apparently some idiot wishes to install a jewish state around Weimar
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17:36:33  <DJNekkid> are callbacks 11 and 12 supported in openttd?
17:38:06  <Belugas> i think they are
17:38:20  <Belugas> they are not marked as "not supported" in the sources, anyway
17:39:30  <Belugas> and yes, they are used here and there in the code too
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17:41:45  <DJNekkid> oki...
17:42:01  <DJNekkid> then it's my code ... but according to DaleStan is my code ok ... hmm
17:42:45  <Belugas> the only way to know, and i thnk DaleStan told you so, is for you to try it in ttdpatch to be syre it's not your code
17:42:56  <Belugas> if it fails in Patch, it will fail in Open
17:43:04  <DaleStan> According to DaleStan, that particular line looks OK. I've got no way of knowing if there's a problem elsewhere.
17:43:48  <Belugas> if it fails in Patch, it will fail in Open <--- no, that's not true... we do have some stuff not implemented by Patch, and vice-versa
17:43:52  <Belugas> joy :)
17:44:02  <DJNekkid> Belugas: true, but i dont have patch installed...
17:44:17  <Belugas> not my problem, it's yours :)
17:44:26  <DJNekkid> and again, true ...
17:44:35  <DJNekkid> tho, may i paste a bit of code?
17:44:50  <Belugas> with, yes
17:46:24  <DaleStan> <Belugas> we do have some stuff not implemented by Patch, and vice-versa <-- That reminds me. I have a few variables to implement, don't I?
17:46:40  <DJNekkid>
17:46:47  <Belugas> yup, so do I ;)
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17:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> varaction2 for bridges ;)
17:51:22  <Belugas> let's go michi_cc, let's go!
17:51:33  <DJNekkid> so dale ... that _should_ be ok?
17:51:37  <DaleStan> Still looks OK. Still isn't enough to prove it OK.
17:51:47  <DJNekkid> hehe ...
17:51:48  <frosch123> DJNekkid: Do you know ?
17:52:04  <DJNekkid> yes
17:54:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> varaction2 for bridges should (imho) have 3 main usages: flexible bridge layout depending on bridge length, proper pillar graphics on sloped tiles/diagonal rails, and joining of adjacent bridges to form multi-track bridges
17:55:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> where all three of these uses can be justified without using the word "realism" :p
17:56:46  <Belugas> indeed :)
17:56:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> there might be gameplay-relevant side usages like lowering the speed limit if the bridge gets old
17:56:52  <Belugas> nice boy
17:57:11  <frosch123> You can add: Reducing sprite sorter problems.
17:57:22  <SmatZ> Bjarni can code "bridge autoreplace/autorenew"
17:57:43  <SmatZ> because who on Earth would like to do that manually
17:58:21  <Belugas> SmatZ, don't ask for disasters, please ;)
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17:58:39  <SmatZ> :)
17:58:46  <SmatZ> I am not asking for it ;)
17:59:26  <ben_goodger> hmm
17:59:46  <ben_goodger> bridge collapsing at TTD's standard animation FPS of 1Hz...would look quite interesting
18:00:08  <ben_goodger> or is it 2Hz?
18:00:14  <peter1138> Where did you get 1Hz from?
18:00:37  <ben_goodger> from my mind, where I get everything I think and say
18:00:51  <ben_goodger> it's not necessarily that, of course
18:01:07  <ben_goodger> but it seems to be either 1 or 2 Hz to one s.f.
18:01:20  <peter1138> 1 change per second is quite slow
18:01:24  <peter1138> 2 is too
18:01:31  <ben_goodger> yes, I know
18:01:35  <Cyclonerotary> 1hz
18:01:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> ben_goodger: have you ever watched an explosion, or even the steam engine smoke?
18:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's definitely more than 1Hz
18:01:47  <ben_goodger> observe the smoke from power stations
18:01:54  <Cyclonerotary> its gotta be at least 20 or so?
18:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's something around 30
18:02:08  <ben_goodger> oh, yes, those might be closer to 5
18:02:27  <ben_goodger> or 10
18:02:51  <peter1138> mind you, FPS is not measured in Hz ;)
18:02:56  <ben_goodger> yes it is
18:03:03  <ben_goodger> ...
18:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> ben_goodger: did it ever occur to you that it might just be skipping some animation frames due to storage space limits for the original game?
18:03:19  <peter1138> FPS *is* the unit...
18:03:39  <Cyclonerotary> well hz is fine
18:03:47  <ben_goodger> peter1138: frames per second
18:03:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> 1FPS = 1Hz
18:03:52  <SmatZ> frame is a unit?
18:04:05  <ben_goodger> a frame is a unitless scalar, so you ignore it
18:04:07  <peter1138> Hz is cycles per second. Cycles in an animation loop would be the whole loop...
18:04:18  <ben_goodger> that just leaves per second, otherwise known as Hz
18:04:23  <SmatZ> so you could say that "rpm" is not the same as "Hz" (except scale)
18:04:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: 1 screen-redraw-cycle ;)
18:04:38  <ben_goodger> SmatZ: RPM is indeed the same as Hz
18:04:39  <Prof_Frink> Pfft, it's all s^-1
18:04:42  <SmatZ> 1 Hz = s^-1
18:05:05  <Prof_Frink> SmatZ: No, 1Hz = 1s^-1
18:05:51  <ben_goodger> 1 rpm = 1/60 Hz, etc
18:06:23  * SmatZ slaps Prof_Frink
18:06:29  <Prof_Frink> Except that rpm doesn't make sense for something not spinning
18:06:30  <ben_goodger> hehe
18:06:37  <ben_goodger> indeed...
18:06:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> my openSUSE is definitely spinning :p
18:07:10  <peter1138> right
18:07:12  <peter1138> my point is
18:07:17  <Prof_Frink> Hmm, if you were measuring the speed of updating a redhat-based system, would you measure in rpmps?
18:07:18  <peter1138> FPS of 10 Hz is wrong
18:07:21  <peter1138> it is either
18:07:24  <peter1138> 10 FPS
18:07:25  <peter1138> or
18:07:26  <peter1138> 10 Hz
18:07:46  <peter1138> You would say "hz of 10 hz"
18:07:53  <peter1138> ?
18:07:55  <ben_goodger> physicists will tell us to use rad·s⁻¹ but since the radian is 1 mm⁻¹ this unit is the same as s⁻¹ which is H\
18:07:57  <SmatZ> why not 600 rpm?
18:07:58  <ben_goodger> *Hz
18:08:09  <Prof_Frink> Framerate of 10Hz
18:08:17  <ben_goodger> peter1138: no, I would say a framerate of 10 Hz
18:08:28  <ben_goodger> FPS is a unit equal to Hz
18:08:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> ben_goodger: but you DID not
18:09:13  <peter1138> no, you said "fps of 10 hz"
18:09:22  <Prof_Frink> s/10/1/
18:09:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> "<ben_goodger> [...] at [...] FPS of 1Hz [...]" <- proof
18:09:27  <peter1138> er, yaeh
18:09:44  <peter1138> anyway
18:09:46  <peter1138> who cares ;)
18:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> wayne ;)
18:10:01  <ben_goodger> I didn't mean the unit, that would be stupid. I meant the popular substitution of FPS for framerate, used to save time
18:10:05  <Prof_Frink> < Eddi|zuHause2> [...] FPS of 1Hz [...] <- proof
18:10:20  <ben_goodger> anyway...
18:10:27  <peter1138> Hz is cycles and a single animation frame is not a cycle
18:10:27  <Prof_Frink> Besides, openttd is a transport game
18:10:32  <Prof_Frink> Not an FPS.
18:10:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Prof_Frink> [...] roof
18:10:36  <peter1138> yeah
18:10:43  <peter1138> <><
18:10:57  <Prof_Frink> < Eddi|zuHause2> [...] oof
18:11:06  <ben_goodger> peter1138: no, Hz is frequency. cycles, orbits, rotation around an axis, frame rendering, etc., all occur in frequencies
18:11:12  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
18:11:17  <fjb> Hello
18:11:28  <Prof_Frink> fjb! Save us!
18:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb also appears in frequencies!
18:11:35  <fjb> From what?
18:11:50  <Prof_Frink> Pedantry
18:11:50  <ben_goodger> yes, fjb appearance also has a frequency
18:11:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> d^-1 ;)
18:11:57  <fjb> I'm appaering infrequently.
18:12:08  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause2: d??
18:12:15  <Prof_Frink> days
18:12:19  <ben_goodger> ah
18:12:26  <Prof_Frink> or decades
18:13:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> 1 Sekunde = 1,15740741 × 10-5 Tage <- says google
18:13:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> should really insert a ^ on copying ;)
18:14:21  <ben_goodger> the earth orbits the sun with a frequency of 3×10⁻⁞ Hz. interestingly this is similar to the speed of light in a vacuum, 3×10⁞ m·s⁻¹
18:14:33  <ben_goodger> anyway I'm going to the pub now. good evening
18:14:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> if only earth's orbit was 1m long :p
18:14:45  *** kyevan [] has joined #openttd
18:15:05  <ben_goodger> that would make the radius of its orbit rather small
18:15:09  <ben_goodger> we'd be rather fecked
18:15:15  <Prof_Frink> Toasty
18:15:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> but then earth would travel at speed of light
18:15:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> how awesome would that be :p
18:16:00  <kyevan> Hmm, I wonder if you could rig a way to make insanehuge maps playable over the internet... possibly break it down into smaller chunks and only have clients worry about the parts near their display? But no, multiple displays would ruin that... hmm.
18:16:37  <kyevan> Eddi|zuHause2: Well, nothing would change down here, except we'd all be dead from hitting cosmic dust and stuff.
18:17:32  <ben_goodger> kyevan: might I restress the presence of the sun, about 3 cm away from the centre of the earth? we'd all be evaporated
18:17:52  <ben_goodger> 30 cm, rather
18:18:27  <kyevan> Ok, fine.
18:19:00  <Eddi|zuHause2>   1 / (2 * pi) = 0,159154943
18:19:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> (u = 2 pi r)
18:20:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> then add the fact that both sun and earth should have a radius >0 ;)
18:21:18  *** rortom [] has joined #openttd
18:21:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> then also consider the fact that the schwarzschildradius of the sun is somewhere around 3km ;)
18:21:37  <rortom> hi all :)
18:22:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> [for the underedjucated: that's the point where the sun would turn into a black hole]
18:23:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> no object with a positive mass can hold an orbit beyond that point
18:23:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> we should totally have black holes in the game, for realism :p
18:23:57  <rortom> good news: python UDP client working:
18:23:58  <rortom> :D
18:25:10  <DJNekkid> well dalestan, it didnt seem to work in TTDP either
18:30:55  <kyevan> ... Crap, Eddi. Now I want to impliment space-based transport :P
18:31:07  <kyevan> It could connect between multiple servers.
18:31:22  <kyevan> Or offline games.
18:31:59  <kyevan> (Well, they would have to be connected to a network with a space transport server for anything interesting. But it could be single player, sill)
18:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, you do that. i'll wait for a relativistic amount of time til you figure it out ;)
18:32:34  <kyevan> Want, not will :P
18:32:59  <Belugas> boooh
18:33:04  <rortom> hi Belugas :)
18:33:13  <rortom> @ kyevan that idea is awesome :D
18:33:27  <Belugas> DJNekkid, now, it seems you have to go back to drawing table (sort of speak)
18:33:35  <Belugas> hey rortom
18:34:29  <kyevan> (Although it really shouldn't be THAT hard. Just add/remove cargo and money from the game with launches and landings, then have a central server that routes it between games - we'll call it Space Station Sawyer, for kicks.)
18:34:51  <kyevan> The hard part is balancing it so it doesn't just cause economy implosion.
18:37:09  <kyevan> Actually, while we're at it, let's just create a whole openttd-based MMO :P
18:37:11  <rortom> that would be possible with bot im programming :D
18:37:11  <Belugas> [14:31] <kyevan> (Although it really shouldn't be THAT hard.)  <--- muwhahaha!!!!
18:37:18  <rortom> ^ :D
18:37:24  <kyevan> ben_goodger: Famous Last Words, I know :P
18:37:29  <DJNekkid> i wonder if the callback 36 interfeers with 11 and 12
18:41:13  <DJNekkid> Belugas: or ill just skip that feature for now :)
18:42:26  <Belugas> those callbacks should not interfere. There might be something else
18:42:49  <Belugas> but the hell if i can help you, i'm not a grf coder, or so little it doe snot count
18:52:08  * Belugas rejoices while listening to "Mogwai - Glasgow Mega-Snake"
18:54:59  <peter1138> yes, do that
19:04:50  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
19:12:06  <Ammler> peter1138: your patch is just great, I would like to use that system also for the web config tool. :-)
19:12:32  <peter1138> what who?
19:13:18  <peter1138> oh
19:13:28  <peter1138> that's not the latest version though
19:13:42  <peter1138> it's quite different now
19:14:05  *** Slowpoke_ [] has joined #openttd
19:15:28  <Ammler> so you changed the system how you save it in the cfg?
19:17:33  *** Purno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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19:19:20  *** Slowpoke [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:22:35  <Belugas> pfff...  Ammler has been contaminated by Yorick
19:22:42  <Belugas> or maybe it's the other way around?
19:22:58  <Ammler> because of?
19:24:22  <Belugas> my point exactly :D
19:26:16  <Ammler> well, never mind :P
19:26:16  <rortom> mh
19:26:32  <SpComb> what peter-patch?
19:26:40  <rortom> had to extend some python method to be able to parse ottd packets ...
19:26:45  <Ammler> SpComb: presets.
19:27:21  <SpComb> presets?
19:29:16  <Ammler> kind of preconfigured NewGRF combinations.
19:29:31  <Ammler> which you can save in the cfg independent
19:30:27  <rortom> i will update the ottd protocol description in the wiki next time ...
19:30:36  <rortom> its somehow outdated ...
19:31:35  <Belugas> ho... that owuld be nice of you, rortom :)
19:31:57  <Belugas> Ammler : you're as curious as he can be...
19:32:59  <rortom> mh can a client change server values via rcon?
19:33:05  <rortom> like game dependant stuff?
19:35:38  <Ammler> that's rcon for, isn't?
19:36:08  <rortom> i mean like change game internal stuff
19:36:14  <Ammler> isn't it.
19:36:17  <rortom> what subvention for what etc
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19:39:08  * peter1138 wonders when the next ror will come out
19:39:08  <Ammler> rortom: you can't change those things on SP
19:39:37  <rortom> @peter1138: when i stop coding on ottd and start on RoR D:
19:39:52  <peter1138> /kick rortom get on with it ;)
19:40:00  <rortom> :p
19:40:12  <rortom> we have plenty of new features
19:40:21  <rortom> but we have to beta test first :\
19:40:30  <rortom> since it will be very buggy i think :|
19:40:50  <rortom> you joined our forums?
19:41:25  <rortom> @ammler: i mean if i could inject some game-play actions from a client
19:41:54  <peter1138> i haven't
19:42:03  <peter1138> but i shall
19:42:17  <rortom> if you do then i can get you invited member status :D
19:42:28  <rortom> means: beta test in a month or so ...
19:42:43  <peter1138> :D :D
19:42:56  <peter1138> Hey, peter1138, you have 0 messages, 0 are new.
19:42:56  <peter1138> Total time logged in: 0 minutes.
19:42:57  <peter1138> yay
19:43:00  <peter1138> that was simple
19:43:03  <rortom> lol
19:43:08  <rortom> let me upgrade you ;)
19:43:41  <rortom> done :)
19:43:53  <rortom> enjoy reading the wonders of invited ;)
19:44:52  <peter1138> thanks
19:46:34  <Sacro> zomg, rortom
19:46:46  <Sacro> <3 ror
19:46:48  <rortom> :p
19:47:39  * rortom also :)
19:50:07  <rortom> so any leading dev want also backstage passes? :)
19:50:23  <peter1138> backstage pass eh?
19:50:33  <rortom> invited member status at our forums ;)
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19:50:46  <Sacro> me!
19:51:02  <Belugas> me!
19:51:02  <rortom> only those >
19:51:07  <Belugas> where do I sign up?
19:51:13  <Sacro> pfft
19:51:24  <Sacro> I'm Bjarni
19:51:25  <peter1138> ah, right :)
19:51:29  <Sacro> but I changed nicks
19:51:47  <rortom>
19:51:51  <Belugas> ... and you can't kick randomly anymore :D
19:52:03  <peter1138> and you're not danish any more
19:52:13  <peter1138> and you're jokes are... um..
19:52:13  <rortom> lol
19:52:16  <Sacro> I... misplaced my ops and my passport
19:52:16  <peter1138> okay the jokes are still bad
19:52:39  <peter1138> another difference
19:52:52  <peter1138> sacro is obsessed with ladies, bjarni is obsessed with people who are obsessed with ladies
19:53:19  <rortom> o_O
19:53:28  <Belugas> and is obsessed with gays
19:53:36  <Vikthor> There is ultimate test...
19:53:41  <Vikthor> Sacro!
19:53:52  <Belugas> and always has a story to tell starting by "Reminds me..."
19:54:02  <Sacro> Vikthor!
19:54:09  <Vikthor> see, if it was Bjarni i would be kicked now
19:54:17  <peter1138> isaac eiland-hall gets around a bit
19:54:25  <Sacro> Reminds me, where did I put my ops...
19:54:34  <rortom> @peter1138 mh?
19:54:39  <peter1138> . o O ( simutrans )
19:54:40  <glx> @kick Sacro you're not who you say you are
19:54:40  *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [you're not who you say you are]
19:54:49  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:54:50  <rortom> :p
19:54:56  <Sacro> glx: lies
19:55:10  <rortom> @peter1138 isaac is one of our admins :D
19:55:11  <Belugas> rortom, done
19:55:56  <rortom> profile upgraded :)
19:56:48  <peter1138> yes
19:56:58  <peter1138> however
19:57:45  <peter1138> time for more ror ;)
19:58:01  <Belugas> my wife will kill me...
20:00:14  <rortom> D:
20:00:41  <Belugas> never mind :)
20:02:23  <rortom> as peter might have noticed, we have #RigsOfRods on quakenet :)
20:03:41  <peter1138> yeah
20:03:45  <peter1138> a reason to go back ;)
20:04:38  <Ammler> just wait, if he knows oftc better, he might tranfer it also... :-)
20:05:33  <Ammler> rortom: quakenet doesn't support Autopilot :-(
20:06:26  <rortom> ah
20:06:30  <rortom> that explains it
20:06:32  <rortom> why that?
20:06:55  <Ammler> well, we wouldn't use it, if it would :P
20:07:09  <Ammler> strange behavier of the IRC module.
20:07:36  <Ammler> some IRC servers won't work with it like quakenet or euric
20:07:55  <rortom> thats strange
20:08:06  <rortom> so i guess i will have to track down that on my own ...
20:08:14  <Ammler> well, long time ago, we checked last time, might have changed.
20:08:27  <rortom> nope, it just hangs when connecting
20:08:34  <Ammler> if you find a solution, let us know... :-)
20:09:38  *** Netsplit <-> quits: lolman, ob0t, Ammler, Forked, eekee, @peter1138, TheMask97, Priski, Sacro, wolfy,  (+31 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
20:09:50  <rortom> D:
20:09:52  *** Netsplit over, joins: Lakie, lolman, Sacro, @peter1138, SmatZ, Ammler, XeryusTC, mikl, frosch123, +glx (+31 more)
20:09:56  <rortom> i hate netsplits
20:10:07  <Ammler> but good timed :-)
20:10:18  <rortom> but good to know that they does not only happen in quakenet ...
20:11:02  <Progman> *g*
20:13:40  <Belugas> they are not frequent, to be honest
20:14:57  <rortom> in quakenet it happens quite often :\
20:14:58  <Belugas> wow... a french sub-forum :)
20:15:04  <rortom> yes :)
20:15:22  <Sacro> eugh, french
20:15:24  <rortom> it kind explodes D:
20:15:33  <rortom> i mean the forum
20:16:05  <glx> I'm reading this subforum ;)
20:16:56  <rortom> not that you all start RoR'ing and no progress on ottd anymore :|
20:17:22  <glx> I upgraded my ror install 2 days ago ;)
20:17:32  <rortom> :)
20:17:43  <rortom> i hope your not disappointed of the sped issue
20:17:45  <rortom> argh
20:17:46  <rortom> bbl
20:17:55  <Belugas> ciao
20:24:42  <Belugas>  <-- forgot to mention that the said message should change each time, otherwise, would be pretty boring thank you...
20:25:01  <Belugas> Fairplay guys.. fairplay
20:25:03  <Belugas> Fairplay guys.. fairplay
20:25:04  <Belugas> Fairplay guys.. fairplay
20:25:05  <Belugas> Fairplay guys.. fairplay
20:25:06  <Belugas> ...
20:25:35  <peter1138> who what?
20:26:03  <Belugas> Quarks and his ideas...
20:29:39  <Belugas> well... that's it for today
20:29:41  <Belugas> good nigh
20:29:59  <Belugas> and maybe see you sowmehere
20:35:09  <peter1138> oh
20:35:10  <peter1138> nini
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21:08:22  <Wolf01> 'night
21:08:28  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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21:17:10  <Ammler> has ottd something like a Trim function?
21:17:37  <Ammler> I would like to add something to remove front spaces in GRF names.
21:18:31  <rortom> uhm
21:18:44  <rortom> that should be a one liner in c :|
21:19:02  <ln> Ammler: you need to use an auxiliary verb in questions in english.
21:20:30  <Ammler> rortom: something like that: for (s = string; *s == ' ' || *s == '\t'; s++) {}
21:21:57  <Ammler> ln: example?
21:22:26  <ccfreak2k> Wouldn't that remove all spaces?
21:22:32  <rortom> indeed
21:22:42  <ln> Ammler: wrong: "has ottd something ..."; right: "does ottd have something ..."
21:23:43  <Ammler> I just grepped the source for trim and fount that
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21:24:47  <ccfreak2k> Spaces are overrated anyway, right?
21:24:54  <rortom> :p
21:26:05  <Rubidium> what about other whitespace characters?
21:26:27  <ccfreak2k> I
21:26:28  <ccfreak2k> I
21:26:31  <ccfreak2k> Fuck.
21:26:37  <ccfreak2k> I'll take care of them.
21:26:42  <ccfreak2k> You don't worry about those...
21:26:45  <rortom> what about removeing anything except [0-9a-zA-Z._-]
21:27:10  <Ammler> well, to "high" mor me anyway :-)
21:27:30  <Ammler> just wanted to have Rivers not in front of the list. :-/
21:27:45  <rortom> :\
21:28:18  <rortom> uhm, Rubidium: i wanted to ask you if i should remove that ottd shirt from my shop ...
21:28:32  <rortom>
21:28:37  <Ammler> did you already sell one?
21:28:41  <rortom> no ;)
21:29:07  <rortom> but i think it would sell if you announce in the forums ;)
21:29:22  <ccfreak2k> I would buy one if I had money. :|
21:29:57  *** Mirrakor [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:30:04  <rortom> i <3 python
21:30:07  <rortom> res, size = unpackExt('IIBBBzzBBBBBzHHBB', content[offset:])
21:30:21  <rortom> that unpacks your gameinfo packet :)
21:30:39  <rortom> I=unsigned Int 32, B=unsigned char, ...
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21:30:57  <Rubidium> rortom: too bad there're 4 versions of that packet
21:31:11  <Sacro> nice t-shirt
21:31:16  <rortom> thats no problem, as you just exchange this format string :D
21:31:17  <Sacro> i might get one for the tt-meet
21:31:39  <bigt0242000> where can i find the latest openttdcoop public server config? the one in the wiki is 8 months old.
21:31:59  <Rubidium> I'd suggest connecting to the openttdcoop channel
21:32:39  <Rubidium> rortom: I can't be bothered about the shirt
21:33:01  <bigt0242000> I'm in it already and have already asked. I have gotten no reply.
21:33:30  *** GT [] has joined #openttd
21:33:32  <Rubidium> getting a reply here before they answer there is unlikely
21:33:46  <rortom> mhm
21:34:00  <Rubidium> hmm, I'm wrong about that... you've already got the reply, you only didn't get an answer
21:34:07  <rortom> does the client have any ability to find out how the server is configured?
21:34:39  <Rubidium> not quite
21:34:50  <bigt0242000> i was just told to check my gui
21:34:52  <rortom> that would be nice to have
21:35:11  <Rubidium> well... what information is useful?
21:35:30  <rortom> mh, as server stats everything is useful
21:35:38  <rortom> like every patch setting
21:35:43  <Rubidium> adding 1 thing gets into a cascading effect where downloading the savegame is more efficient
21:35:47  <rortom> or anything that is written in the config
21:36:07  <Rubidium> yay for the enormous security breach
21:36:12  <rortom> ?
21:36:32  <Rubidium> sending everybody the rcon and server password
21:36:42  <rortom> no
21:36:49  <Rubidium> well... you just said that
21:36:53  <rortom> you would remove some values for sure :|
21:37:43  <rortom> that could evolve into a new udp command?
21:37:51  <Rubidium> lol ;)
21:38:00  <Rubidium> adding all that information into 1500 bytes
21:38:04  <rortom> yeah
21:38:14  <rortom> that was i was thinking about exatly :p
21:38:16  <Rubidium> doesn't fit
21:38:20  <rortom> agreed
21:38:23  <Rubidium> isn't future proof
21:38:26  <rortom> must be a better way
21:38:35  <rortom> stream over udp?
21:38:43  <rortom> like X packets?
21:38:43  <Rubidium> that's called tcp
21:38:46  <rortom> :|
21:39:02  <rortom> i dont want to interfere the gameplay, so use udp...
21:39:15  <Rubidium> not to mention that not all patches can easily be seen in the GUI
21:39:21  <rortom> mh
21:39:23  <Rubidium> *cannot*
21:39:40  <Rubidium> like pathfinder settings
21:39:48  <rortom> oh, right
21:40:22  <rortom> then KISS, and lets forget this idea
21:40:33  <rortom> *keep it simple, stupid
21:40:55  <bigt0242000> lol so what would be the best way to get the server config?
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21:40:59  <Rubidium> so like it is now
21:41:04  <Rubidium> bigt0242000: ask the server owner
21:43:22  <rortom> @Rubidium: yes, its slim and nice :)
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21:45:13  <rortom> i guess the first three versions of the gameinfo UDP packet are deprecated?
21:45:18  <rortom> or still used?
21:45:39  <Rubidium> still used
21:46:02  <rortom> ok, i will have a look
21:47:41  <Rubidium> with still used I mean: used in the last week
21:48:16  <rortom> oh, is the new format this young?
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21:50:28  <Rubidium> it's more that people still use old versions of OpenTTD
21:52:31  <rortom> yes
21:52:41  <rortom> so i should see the svn log i guess
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22:21:54  <kyevan> grah, the way it dumps you when you have network errors is annoying.
22:22:09  <kyevan> It would be nicer if it would quietly reconnect >_>
22:23:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> bad idea... really bad...
22:27:09  <kyevan> Uh, why?
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22:27:38  <kyevan> Or, if not quietly, then just pop up a box "Network error: Reconnecting"
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22:56:57  <Belugas> kyevan, what if it keeps on connecting, disconnecting, connecting, disconnecting, connecting, disconnecting, connecting, disconnec...
22:57:05  <Belugas> you've got the idea
22:57:34  <Belugas> pff...  users sometimes...
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22:58:50  * Lakie decides he should use OpenTTD a little so he can be one of these users, Belugas talks about. :)
22:59:40  <Belugas> impassible!
22:59:55  <Belugas> you have a dev mentality :D
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23:00:21  <Lakie> Hehe
23:00:28  <rortom> lol
23:00:33  <Belugas> furthermore, if ever there is something bothering you, 9 out of 10 chances you'll provide a patch :P
23:00:40  <rortom> ^
23:00:58  <rortom> noticed the same thin on RoR
23:01:07  * Lakie looks at OpenTTD and wonders if he should start trying to plan how to add enhancedtunnels but having the devs help him work out a clean method.
23:01:16  <rortom> could not play, as i always saw something to be patched :|
23:01:28  <Lakie> Well, I need something to do over summer to keep up my C++ skills. *hides8
23:01:54  <Lakie> And TTDpatch appears to have very little interest despite me trying to finalise the 2.5 branch. :(
23:02:06  <Belugas> want to help me with my bridge-sig stuff?
23:02:16  <Lakie> I can try? >_>
23:02:49  <Lakie> It means diving into the pathfinder and that wierd signal thing
23:03:33  <Lakie> (The former I'd have to deal with at some point anyway...)
23:03:52  <Lakie> Well, what still needs doing Belugas? :p
23:03:59  <Belugas> yup ...that is where i'm stuck
23:04:05  <rortom> :\
23:04:12  <Belugas> signal updates and pathfinding
23:04:18  <Lakie> Hmm...
23:04:24  <Belugas> drawing is done, looks cool :)
23:04:29  <Lakie> :)
23:04:30  <Belugas> as you already know ;)
23:04:38  <Lakie> Mek could get it to draw but those, Mek fleed
23:04:46  <Lakie> fled*
23:05:11  <Belugas> too bad...
23:05:16  <Lakie> Well, signal update is done through "signal zones" or something, which SmartZ wrote?
23:05:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> the custom bridgeheads failed exactly because of the signal stuff
23:05:33  <Belugas> i remember he did some superb grid-like patch
23:05:43  <Belugas> all hte landscape was seen as just lines
23:05:54  <Belugas> Lakie, exact
23:06:13  <Lakie> I see
23:06:19  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2, and because Celestar got into real life a bit too much
23:06:29  <Belugas> or totally lost interest
23:06:31  <Lakie> Ae real life eats up a lot of time
23:06:34  <Lakie> Aye*
23:06:45  <Lakie> How do pathfinders work?
23:06:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, that was way after it was declared a failure afaik
23:06:56  <Lakie> Are they based off a abstract base class?
23:06:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> but what do i know ;)
23:07:07  <Lakie> (Which acts as an interface)?
23:07:25  <rortom> real life is just an illusion :|
23:07:34  * Lakie deletes rortom
23:07:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> Lakie: YAPF is heavily template based
23:08:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> basically you provide a "find next tile" and a "weight current tile" function
23:08:12  <Belugas> oups...
23:08:16  <Lakie> I was wondering because if it was based off 'interfaces' (Java c# term) does that mean tile data they fetch could be different?
23:08:20  <Belugas> copy paste striked again
23:08:21  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13682 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Codechange: -Codechange: remove a now useless variable(dih).
23:08:33  <Lakie> Ie. a common place to patch
23:08:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes. those two functions
23:09:02  <Lakie> I mean in OpenTTD and not having to try and alter two pathfinders
23:09:05  <Belugas> Lakie, i think it's based on abtract base class, yes
23:09:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, you'll have to handle YAPF and NPF separately
23:09:34  * Lakie assumes there is an interface to find landscape data?
23:09:44  <rortom> nite
23:09:45  <Lakie> Well, I mean functions
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23:09:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> *_map.h
23:10:05  <Belugas> i have built another abstract base class that tried to hide the difference between regular rail and bridges, but somehow, it fails at updating
23:10:18  <Belugas> al tough it passes the signal inclusion quite well
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23:10:45  <Lakie> I was hoping for a fetch tile data which could infect 'lie' back to the pathfinders
23:10:53  <Lakie> ineffect*
23:10:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> i really don't know why we are still keeping NPF, it's double the maintenance work for very little effect
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23:12:00  <Lakie> True, but maybe NPF does something YAPF foes?
23:12:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> YAPF design goal was to mimic every effect NPF has
23:13:00  <Lakie> I see
23:15:25  <Lakie> Belugas: the problem I see is you'd have to rewrite how bridges are handled?
23:15:52  <Belugas> that's what i wanted to avoid
23:15:56  <Lakie> I assume by default both pathfinders see a bridge and look for its 'end' and continue building where t go?
23:16:07  <Belugas> that's what i believe, yes
23:16:22  <Lakie> The "GetOtherTunnelBridgeEnd" function or something
23:16:29  <Belugas> thus the idea to fool the pfs and make them think they are runing on simple rails
23:16:44  <Lakie> Will this be switchable?
23:16:54  <Lakie> Ie. can be on or off?
23:16:56  <Belugas> no
23:17:02  <Belugas> why?
23:17:07  <Belugas> doe sit need to be?
23:17:38  <Lakie> Just wondering why you'd prefer spoofing compared to rewriting how it sees them
23:17:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> how about feeding a z value to the pathfinder functions?
23:18:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> so the pathfinder actually kows he's on the bridge, and does not need to be fooled?
23:18:25  <Belugas> becasuse uf the wormhole handling
23:18:39  <MorgyN> wormhole handling?
23:18:41  <Lakie> Ie. tunnels?
23:18:46  <Belugas> yeah
23:18:53  * Lakie gets some pespi
23:18:58  <Belugas> tunnels and bridges are acting the same
23:19:24  <MorgyN> I wish you could put signals in tunnels ;D
23:19:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, tunnels and bridges are wormholes from a map perspective, but do they really need to be from a pathfinder perspective?
23:20:43  <Lakie> Tunnels can still be from a pathfinder
23:20:48  <Lakie> perspective*
23:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> not when you plan to introduce bendy tunnels ;)
23:21:26  <Lakie> After all you can't really put signals on a tunnel tile (underground) without rewriting how that works
23:21:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> (subways)
23:21:42  <Lakie> That requires reworking how to display them and such.
23:21:44  <Belugas> bendy no wy
23:22:24  <Lakie> Belugas: maybe "GetOtherTunnelBridgeEnd" should become "GetNextTunnelBridgeTileOrEnd"?
23:22:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not suggesting to try to implement that now, but you might very well plan ahead for that
23:22:26  <Belugas> Lakie, that is why i wold have loved to get my hand on the grid-like-landscape of Mek
23:22:53  <Lakie> Hmm?
23:23:03  <Lakie> Is it part of TTDpatch?
23:23:04  <Belugas> well.. with the bridge pool, it's not even a funciton, it's just... look at both ends n the bridge object :)
23:23:08  <Belugas> no
23:23:10  * Lakie doesn't remember what it is
23:24:02  <Belugas> Mek has shown me, a long time ago, some screenshots that did not painted the ground tiles, but just a grid, with each tile format been drawn
23:24:05  <Belugas> it was ...
23:24:08  <Belugas> magic :)
23:24:13  <Lakie> Well, the theory was that since bridges return a tile (even if a spoofed) it could be used to build a path over a bridge?
23:24:27  <Lakie> Wow
23:24:35  <Belugas> hem...
23:24:40  <Belugas> don't we already have that??
23:24:41  <Lakie> Sounds awsome and really useful for somethings.
23:24:59  <Belugas> yeah, it should
23:25:08  <Lakie> Does it return the tile x in a bridge y?
23:25:08  <Belugas> just that i've got no idea on how to approach it
23:25:12  <Belugas> yes
23:25:26  <Lakie> And the pathfinder still chokes and dies on it?
23:25:41  <Belugas> i've not yet tackled the pf code
23:25:54  <Belugas> i'm still trying to make the signal updater work
23:25:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> if i remember correctly, the real signal trouble was because signal states were only checked when moving between tiles, but since bridges are wormholes, the tile is not changed until after you leave the other bridge head
23:26:02  <Lakie> Ok, signal zones is what we want currently.
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23:26:27  <Lakie> I thought they were stored as a linked list?
23:28:21  <Belugas> might have some insights from SmatZ on that one..
23:28:41  <Belugas> meanwhile, if yu excuse me, i'll have a tv evening with my wife...
23:28:47  <Belugas> see you :)
23:29:00  <Lakie> Because if they are surely just plonking the signal into that wouldn't it for the most part work (apart from obviously triggering the update).
23:29:05  <Lakie> Ok, bye Belugas.
23:29:15  <Belugas> Lakie, Eddi|zuHause2, if you wish, i'll try to send you the current diff
23:29:18  * Belugas is gone
23:29:23  <Lakie> Ok
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23:49:50  <kyevan> Belugas: Then the player disconnects.
23:50:13  <kyevan> pff... developers sometimes...
23:52:44  <Lakie> They have their own obligations sometimes.
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23:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> kyevan: what if the person does not look at the screen for several minutes, and only notices it after the 30th reconnect?

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