Log for #openttd on 14th August 2008:
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04:17:14  <doc|work> any tricks to "move" another company's roads? they're right in front of my station
04:17:19  <doc|work> even a reroute would be good
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04:25:36  <SquireJames> Hello all
04:27:12  <doc|work> hey
04:31:07  <SquireJames> I think i'm finally remembering this NFO coding business
04:33:22  <SquireJames> I can't seem to find anything related to passenger or post carriages in UKRS so I assume Pikka just replaced the default graphics for them (and apart from livery changes left the code alone)
04:33:47  <SquireJames> so whats the default id for passenger and mail carriages/
04:53:03  <SquireJames> Anyone? Pleeeease
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05:15:26  <peter1138> There is definitely stuff in there for them.
05:26:27  <Forked> mornin..
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07:12:58  <SquireJames> !Seen Lakie
07:13:19  <SquireJames> ah guess thats because hes in here
07:13:28  * SquireJames facepalms
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08:17:28  <planetmaker> I got an error with the makefile on one of our servers:
08:17:59  <planetmaker> Can anyone tell me what's going wrong? Makefiles are completely uncharted territory for me unfortunately :S
08:18:44  <planetmaker> I'm trying to compile yesterday's nightly, but always end up with a working binary with norev000 - which obviously noone can join :(
08:18:47  <Rubidium> looks like awk's misbehaving
08:19:17  <planetmaker> is there a way I can pin this more in detail?
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08:21:06  <planetmaker> awk -W version
08:21:07  <planetmaker> mawk 1.3.3 Nov 1996, Copyright (C) Michael D. Brennan
08:24:08  <planetmaker> or find out which call doesn't work?
08:25:03  <Rubidium> <- does that "work"
08:25:25  <Rubidium> i.e. show r$(REV_MODIFIED)
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08:27:25  <planetmaker> Rubidium: unfortunately not :(
08:27:26  <planetmaker> awk: line 1: illegal reference to array a
08:27:28  <planetmaker> svn: Write error: Broken pipe
08:27:39  <peter1138> svn info src | awk '/^URL:.*branches/ { split(, a, "/"); print length(a)}'
08:27:39  <peter1138> awk: line 1: illegal reference to array a
08:27:50  <peter1138> Must be an awk bug.
08:28:02  <Rubidium> what if you capitalize the a?
08:28:10  <peter1138> As there is no match, the rest shouldn't be called :o
08:29:11  <planetmaker> capitalized A gives me
08:29:13  <planetmaker> r$(REV_MODIFIED)
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08:29:27  <planetmaker> definitely a progress :)
08:29:31  <peter1138> Not really.
08:29:31  <ShiverMeSideway> hello here also
08:29:40  <planetmaker> no error...
08:30:17  <Rubidium> planetmaker: it could be the awk compiler that barfs on it, not that it's actually called
08:30:57  <planetmaker> hm...
08:31:35  <Rubidium> s/planetmaker/peter1138/ ;)
08:31:40  <peter1138> "The length() function calculates the length of a string."
08:32:08  <peter1138> Rather than an array.
08:32:27  <Rubidium> <- that solves the issue, right?
08:32:37  <peter1138> No
08:34:07  <planetmaker> unfortunately no
08:34:31  <peter1138> Not an awk bug at all, it's a script error.
08:36:15  <Rubidium> ah lovely... all internet examples assume gawk and in gawk length of an array is correct
08:36:15  <peter1138> length(array) seems to be a gawk extension, so it's not in mawk.
08:36:48  <peter1138> for (i in a) n++
08:36:50  <peter1138> :o
08:38:24  <Rubidium> peter1138: can you then fix it as I can't test it for mawk?
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08:38:41  <planetmaker> peter1138: I'd be glad for a diff and try that immediately :)
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08:44:45  <peter1138>
08:45:23  <peter1138> Well
08:45:28  <peter1138> That's wrong too :D
08:45:37  <peter1138> I need a branch checkout to test :p
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08:46:56  <Rubidium> one with and one without svn+ssh
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08:50:54  <Wolf01> hello
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08:54:58  <peter1138> I can't see that mattering.
09:00:27  <Rubidium> well, it was changed because it gave the wrong result on svn+ssh
09:00:56  <planetmaker> peter1138: with the patch you posted it worked...
09:02:14  <planetmaker> we now have again a server with a proper revision :)
09:05:00  <peter1138> Bah, of course the patch doesn't apply because the branches weren't synced yet... heh...
09:07:04  <peter1138> Hahha, my old custom bridge heads patch... all 14KB of it :o
09:08:29  <planetmaker> :D
09:09:03  <Ammler> oh :-) comeback?
09:09:06  <peter1138> No.
09:09:32  <peter1138> The last version of it was r3812.
09:09:49  <peter1138> Lots of direct map access everywhere...
09:12:24  <planetmaker> :)
09:12:36  <planetmaker> that's a real old-timer patch then :)
09:17:34  <Ammler> the eyecandy specially for cityroads was nice
09:18:31  <Ammler> (your branch only supported rail bridges, iirc)
09:19:17  <peter1138> Not my branch.
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09:44:46  <prakti> Prof_Frink: I do not need to point at an x-term: I have a tiling window-manager which I can control by keyboard.
09:45:45  <prakti> Prof_Frink:
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10:24:06  <planetmaker> Celestar: any progress on CargeDest?
10:24:14  <planetmaker> -e +o
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10:27:12  <Rubidium> planotmakor: Colostar: any progross on CargoDost? (sounds quite Crabtree-ish)
10:28:31  <peter1138> :o
10:28:37  <peter1138> :e
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10:31:27  <planetmaker> whoot?
10:31:34  <fjb> Hello
10:32:30  <peter1138> SketchUp is really quite easy to use.
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10:40:39  <Roujin> @logs
10:40:42  <SpComb> Logs:
10:40:42  <Roujin> !logs
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10:41:11  <Tekky> Hi everyone. I have just changed the YAPP wiki article significantly. I have moved all advanced track layouts to a new article, in order not to confuse newbies. Here are the links to the two wiki articles:
10:41:12  <Tekky>
10:41:14  <Tekky>
10:41:52  <Tekky> I think the old article was confusing for newbies, as it contained several controversial track layouts.
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10:43:15  <fjb> Looks good.
10:44:13  <Tekky> Thanks, but I was not the one who wrote most of the article. I just split it up into two articles.
10:44:24  <peter1138> The single signal images with captions look a bit odd.
10:44:29  <Tekky> I guess now that YAPP is in trunk, it should be linked better with the official documentation.
10:44:30  <peter1138> The caption does not fit at all.
10:44:52  <planetmaker> I wouldn't call it "patch options" but rather "settings". Because that's what it is :)
10:45:15  <SquireJames> those are some pretty complex layouts, I usually just work ad hoc, making something that looks right and then tweaking it if I get jams
10:45:33  <planetmaker> same with advanced patch options vs. advanced settings
10:46:48  <peter1138> That high capacity RoRo is ugly :)
10:47:33  <Tekky> yes, I don't like the additional signals placed on every tile.
10:47:57  <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes, the gui needs to be renamed, but also reworked to be more flexible
10:48:41  <planetmaker> Rubidium: well, yes. But variables already have the correct name. I was mostly referring to the wiki page quoted by Tekky
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10:51:02  * SquireJames dislikes RoRos anyway
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10:51:20  <SquireJames> Real stations are Termini or Through, not RoRo
10:51:48  <Tekky> I thought "RoRo" was just a different term for "pass-through"?
10:52:03  <SquireJames> Well, RoRos that loop round then
10:52:20  <SquireJames> the ones where trains leave, turn 180 degrees on loop lines and return in the direction they came
10:52:27  <Tekky> you mean one-directional pass through in contrast to bi-directional pass through?
10:52:28  <SquireJames> such stations in real life are plain old Termini
10:53:38  <Tekky> ah yes, the bi-directional stations in YAPP can act both as terminus stations and pass-through stations.
10:53:53  <Ailure>,%205th%20Jul%201703.png
10:54:14  <Ailure> I love it how despite the vehicle have diffrent sound and logic than other road vehicles
10:54:19  <Ailure> they still act the same when they break down
10:54:45  <Ailure> I should probably forget about playing a game starting at year 1700
10:54:46  <Ailure> it's boring
10:54:52  <planetmaker> Ailure: you should use the NA road set - dirt roads look better with horse carriages :)
10:55:02  <Ailure> Duh
10:55:08  <Ailure> Yeah, those roads looks way too modern .
10:55:09  <Ailure> :)
10:55:34  <Ailure> I was only playing around with egrvts, so I didn't have much else loaded
10:55:48  <planetmaker> ah, right :)
10:56:23  <Roujin> well you can't expect a grf to change too much of the game's mechanics
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10:56:41  <Roujin> just disable breakdowns ;)
10:57:05  <Brianetta> You need different bus stopgraphics, too
10:57:16  <Brianetta> They're too modern looking even for 1940
10:57:25  <peter1138> SquireJames, well, RoRo does exist for some bulk freight stations.
10:58:16  <Ailure> [12:56] <Roujin> well you can't expect a grf to change too much of the game's mechanics
10:58:34  <Ailure> Of course
10:58:43  <SquireJames> Ailure, if your using horse carriages in a British Setting
10:58:51  <Ailure> It's like how Zeppelins make a helicopter noise when they ladn/take off
10:58:52  <SquireJames> TTRS has lovely industrial era roads and stops
10:59:07  <Ailure> Again this wasn't a serious game :)
10:59:14  <SquireJames> cobbles and such, marvellous :)
10:59:17  <Ailure> I check that out though
10:59:26  <Ailure> or wait
10:59:37  <Ailure> I think I have used TTRS
10:59:39  <planetmaker> for this we now have grf presets. If we have a nice working combination - save it :)
10:59:39  <Ailure> IT's good
11:00:18  <planetmaker> I love that. Now I would like to be able to load several grf presets at once :)
11:00:52  <Ailure> The only thing I didn't like with TTRS is the slight graphical clash with PBI
11:01:01  <Ailure> but that's kinda unavoidable I guess
11:01:40  <SquireJames> its very minor though
11:01:47  <peter1138> If TTRS clashes with PBI, then TTRS clashes with everything.
11:01:52  <peter1138> (Oh, it does :))
11:02:03  <planetmaker> :P
11:02:03  <SquireJames> and you can actually turn off the road graphics IIRC
11:02:09  <Ailure> The clash were never big enough
11:02:13  <SquireJames> but, I like the roads
11:02:15  <Ailure> to really make me bother to turn off the road graphics
11:02:21  <Ailure> heh
11:02:23  <SquireJames> exactly :)
11:03:09  <SquireJames> and with LNER Expresses roaring through, TTRS just looks the part (although I miss my beloved LMS, no company colour makes her look good!)
11:03:39  <Ailure> Feels like I kinda lagged behind in keeping track of what GRF's are hot and not
11:04:10  <SquireJames> well, as good as other sets may or may not be
11:04:29  <SquireJames> I can't bring myself to seperate from my British roots and play another set or climate
11:04:55  <Ailure> I find myself playing with the UKRS train set and the aircraft set by the same author
11:05:07  <Ailure> but only becuse they feel balanced for gameplay and keeps the game intresting for the future
11:05:20  <Ailure> many other sets seems to refuse creating fictional trains for their sets
11:05:33  <Ailure> Making a game rather dull after 2010 or so
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11:10:48  <Tekky> I really think we must find a different name for YAPP "advanced signals", now that YAPP is in trunk. I have created a new forum thread on this topic here:
11:11:35  <Ailure> lol
11:11:42  <Yorick> "Path Based Signals"
11:11:49  <Ailure> I was laughing at the configuration options when I saw PBS signls were called advanced
11:12:18  <Ailure> becuse I referred pre-signals as the more advanced kind of signals, since they need some learning before they are used
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11:12:23  <thingwath> "The signals" ;)
11:12:29  <Yorick> "realistic signals"
11:12:49  <Ammler> hmm, zutty is wrong, you can combine the signals quite well.
11:13:24  <Tekky> I think plain "PBS" signals would be best.....
11:13:24  <Ammler> specially joiners to ML with PBS and "old" Presignals rocks.
11:14:56  <Tekky> I mean calling YAPP signals simply "PBS" signals, as that is the term used most, anyway. I don't like the term "advanced" signals as it does not specify in what way they are advanced.
11:15:14  <Ammler> Tekky: indeed, don't think you can introduce another name for it...
11:15:54  <Ammler> does someone call them "YAPP-Signals"?
11:16:47  <Ammler> ah, they aren't called PBS now :-)
11:17:04  <Ammler> (didn't notice that)
11:17:11  <Ailure> lol
11:17:13  <Yorick> how about YAPP exit-signals, that work with normal presignals
11:17:20  <Yorick> but they'd always turn red :)
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11:18:17  <Tekky> Ammler: yes, I do call them YAPP signals, because when YAPP first was released by michi_cc, it was important to distinguish them from PBS signals in miniIN, which used the old PBS system of OpenTTD. However, now that YAPP is in trunk, I don't think that term is appropriate anymore.
11:19:04  <Tekky> Therefore, I am in favor of officially renaming them to "PBS signals".
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11:19:20  <Yorick> "realistic signals"
11:19:32  <Tekky> It was said that OpenTTD's YAPP signals were different to TTDPatch's PBS signals. I disagree with this. They are nearly the same, especially since the introduction of TTDPatch "through signals".
11:20:03  <Tekky> Therefore, I see no reason to give these signals a different name than in TTDPatch.
11:20:03  <peter1138> You said that before :p
11:20:36  <Yorick> we need that graphics for our standard advanced signals and call it a through-signal
11:20:44  <Tekky> peter1138: yes, I said that in the forum. I thought I would also post it in the chat for those people who are too lazy to read the forum. :-)
11:20:54  <Ammler> maybe BPBS?
11:21:18  <Ammler> B(etter)PBS
11:21:51  <Ailure> PFS
11:22:46  <Tekky> Yorick: Yes, I also like the TTDPatch graphics of the through signals. It may be a good idea to use the same graphics in OpenTTD. I proposed this several months ago to michi_cc, but he rejected my idea, saying that the graphics could be changed by NewGRFs anyway.
11:23:08  <Yorick> Tekky: newgrfs don't set standards
11:23:09  <peter1138> I dislike them.
11:23:22  <Yorick> and the current graphics for through signals are even more unclear
11:23:23  <peter1138> They just add more clutter.
11:23:37  <peter1138> They're only necessary because they're not through-signals by default.
11:23:48  <Tekky> What TTDPatch calls a "through signal" is currently called a "two-way PBS signal" in YAPP.
11:24:25  <Tekky> sorry, I of course mean a "two-way advanced signal". :-)
11:25:18  <peter1138> Besides, NewGRF newsignals is a horribly written feature that has some strict limitations.
11:25:33  * peter1138 is considering adding signal graphic support to his Rail Type specification.
11:30:29  <Tekky> yes, OpenTTD must make a NewNewGRF specifiation :-)
11:30:43  <Tekky> specifiaton = specification
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11:32:34  <Yorick> Tekky: NoGRF :)
11:33:46  <Ailure> I always thought the way newGRF's worked was weird
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11:41:52  <Brianetta> I want to see a two-way waiting signal
11:42:01  <Brianetta> Last night I actually placed two advanced signals back to back
11:42:50  <Brianetta> Not that I'd press for it, since I can always put two advanced signals back to back...
11:44:07  <Brianetta> In case you're scratching your heads, it was at one end of a two-direction single-platform station, served by trains from each end that always turned around and went back
11:44:13  <Tekky> Brianetta: YAPP currently only supports signals in safe waiting locations. Since it is never safe to wait on both sides of a signal, such double signals don't exist, at least until "weak reservations" are implemented which also support unsafe waiting locations.
11:44:28  <Brianetta> Tekky: It *is* sometimes safe to wait on either side
11:44:56  <Brianetta> when one side of the signal is a station platform, and a train will turn around
11:45:00  <Tekky> Brianetta: Yes, but in order to deterine whether it is safe, "weak" reservations are required.
11:45:08  <Brianetta> no; always safe
11:45:29  <Brianetta> I can send you the save (:
11:45:39  <peter1138> Or a screenshot?
11:45:50  <Brianetta> peter1138: That would involve installing OpenTTD at work...
11:45:54  <Brianetta> but I could send it later
11:46:14  <peter1138> I think adding two-way signals would just confuse the people who try to place them like normal.
11:46:22  <Brianetta> wait, I'll sketch it (:
11:46:32  * Brianetta opens some paint proggy or other
11:46:47  <Brianetta> Hmm, I only have the Gimp
11:46:49  <Tekky> Brianetta: It is not safe. If another train tries to enter a platform and the platform is already occupied by a train, then the train attempting to enter the platform will be blocking the train attempting to leave the platform. This is a deadlock.
11:47:06  <Brianetta> Tekky: Nope.
11:47:22  <Tekky> Ok, I'm awaiting your sketch :)
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11:47:34  <Brianetta> Hang on, mice aren't fun to draw with
11:47:49  <Tekky> get a touchscreen :)
11:48:01  <Tekky> then you can draw with your finger :)
11:48:07  <Brianetta> yeah yeah
11:48:16  <Brianetta> let me just put a requisition form in to be turned down
11:49:55  <Tekky> for those of you who don't know what a "weak" reservation is, here is a link to my wiki article:
11:52:57  <Brianetta> Tekky: Resolving (strengthening) a reservation won't be easy
11:53:14  <Brianetta> You'll need so much extra metadata to make a decision as to which train "deserves" it
11:55:10  <Tekky> Brianetta: you mean determining which train should be given right of way when a reservation conflict is detected?
11:55:24  <Brianetta> yes
11:55:53  <Brianetta> I'd say "first come, first served"
11:55:59  <Brianetta> but you might as well not have them then
11:56:04  <Tekky> well, simply resoving these conflicts by looking at a train's priority would already be good enough for a start....
11:56:21  <Brianetta> A train's priority can more easily be granted by allowing it longer reservations
11:57:05  <Brianetta>
11:57:21  <Brianetta> Three train system
11:57:25  <Brianetta> Four staions
11:57:31  <Brianetta> One per Raw Mat station
11:57:38  <Brianetta> Yellow spots are designated waiting spots
11:57:42  <Tekky> yes... well, I believe that all trains should have a certain lookahead. The lookahead of high-priority trains should just have a higher priority :-)
11:57:45  <Brianetta> They're on the left
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11:58:05  <Brianetta> high-priority *orders*
11:58:15  <Brianetta> Trains aren't inherently important
11:58:36  <Tekky> with "high-priority train" I mean  "a train with a high-priority order".
11:58:52  <Brianetta> A low priority train doesn't even need to make any weak reservations
11:59:00  <Brianetta> It can make strong ones, one at a time, like present
11:59:28  <Brianetta> So, you see my sketch?
11:59:43  <Brianetta> All three trains serve "Drop"
11:59:51  <Brianetta> and all of them will turn around and leave the way they came
11:59:53  <Tekky> giving low-priority trains a lookahead does little harm, if the priority of this lookahead is so low that they will never be given right of way if they conflict with another train.
12:00:22  <Brianetta> Damnit, the signal to the left of drop is on the wrong side
12:00:52  <Brianetta> Tekky: With lots of low priority trains (probably at least half of the orders of freight trains) it's more work
12:01:10  <Brianetta> anyway
12:01:41  <Brianetta> on my sketch, you'll note that the right side entrance to "Drop" has a signal showing a safe waiting area each side
12:01:52  <Brianetta> In my game, I put two signals back to back
12:02:37  <Brianetta> In the game itself, the three raw materials stations were actually allot further away
12:02:40  <Brianetta> a lot
12:02:56  <Brianetta> so the trains would converge here, and all would wait to get onto the single platform
12:03:10  <Brianetta> From the left, in front of the junction
12:03:18  <Brianetta> From the right, in front of the platform itself
12:03:47  <Brianetta> No trains ever unreasonably blocked any other train
12:04:15  <Tekky> By the way, a lookahead is not a "weak" reservation. I plan to make 3 types of reservations: strong (as currently in YAPP), weak and lookahead. A weak reservation is a reservation that tells other trains: "You may use this reserved track, as long as you make sure you don't get stuck here, because I need this track as a safe waiting locations, otherwise I risk getting stuck myself." In...
12:04:17  <Tekky> ...contrast, a lookahead is no real "reservation", it just tells other trains: "I will be needing this track soon, so if you want it, you must first negotiate with me." In other words, a lookahead is only necessary for detecting train conflicts in advance, so they can also be resolved in advance.
12:04:56  <Brianetta> I've corrected the wrong signal
12:05:26  <Brianetta>
12:05:27  <Brianetta> again
12:05:43  <Brianetta> Again, signals are on the driver's *left*
12:06:05  <Tekky> ok, I'm studying your sketch.
12:06:48  *** Gekz [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:07:05  *** Gekz [] has joined #openttd
12:07:35  <Tekky> Brianetta: ah, every Raw Mat station only has one train serving it?
12:07:42  <Brianetta> Yes.
12:08:37  <blathijs> Tekky: That three level reservation thing sounds sane
12:08:42  *** Brainstorm [] has joined #openttd
12:09:25  <Kloopy> I played lots of people at OpenTTD this weekend at a big LAN event... I was surprised how many people don't understand signaling.
12:09:29  <blathijs> Tekky: What does YAPP currently do? Only strong reservations? Does it use explicit exit signals, or only a single signal type as you propose for strong reservations?
12:09:32  <Kloopy> Most of them use 1 track and 1 platform for each train.
12:09:50  *** Wezz6400 [] has joined #openttd
12:10:32  <Tekky> blathijs: yes, YAPP currently only supports what I would call a "strong" reservation and it exclusively uses the single signal type that I proposed for strong reservations.
12:11:09  <blathijs> Brianetta: If you don't allow low prio trains to make weak reservations, that means that they will never be able to use the secondary track, right? Ie, go past non-safe waiting locations? Or can they still make a very long strong reservation?
12:11:10  *** Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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12:40:06  <Brianetta> Signal blocks could conceivably cross ownership boundaries.
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12:58:43  <Kloopy> 0.7.0 could be AWESOME. Just YAPP, cargodests and shared infrastructure would be enough.
12:59:00  <Progman> "just"
12:59:13  <Kloopy> What I'd like to see if a pledge system... if the devs like certain ideas, you can pledge a donation if the feature makes it into the game.
12:59:28  <Kloopy> "just" as in if none of their other awesome work made it in, those three major features would be incredible to have.
12:59:35  <Wolf01> daylength!
12:59:46  <Kloopy> Daylength is one I'm not too fussed about tbh. But sure! :)
13:00:06  <Kloopy> A 0.7.0 like the above is something I'd certainly pay for.
13:00:31  <Yorick> Kloopy: so they would not get paid for fixing bugs
13:00:38  <Kloopy> Tbh though, if they're anything like me (in the developer sense) I'd rather be taken out for a few beers than have someone randomly pledge donations. :P
13:00:55  <Yorick> some dont like beer
13:01:01  <Kloopy> Yorick: I don't mean that at all, I'm just excited about the great features that're being added at the moment.
13:01:19  <Kloopy> The devs should all feel bloody proud. :)
13:01:29  <Yorick> but it would happen
13:01:38  <Kloopy> Yeah, I see your point.
13:01:45  <Yorick> if you only "pay" them for new features, and not for bugfixes...
13:02:11  <Brianetta> Yorick: THey could hold us to ransom for bugfixes (:
13:02:15  <Kloopy> lol
13:02:50  <peter1138> We do not do it for money...
13:02:54  <Brianetta> "Your trams are stuck?  See our 'fix the trams' fundraiser!"
13:03:00  <peter1138> You can send me a beer though.
13:03:15  * Yorick gives peter1138 a cookie
13:03:33  <Kloopy> I know you don't... I've done a lot of volunteer coding before and I realise why you do it. But donating money is a nice and easy way for us to show our appreciation.
13:03:37  <Kloopy> :)
13:03:48  <Brianetta>
13:04:52  <Brianetta> <-- works in the UK
13:05:33  <Brianetta> although it's only valid in some London bars
13:05:41  <Kloopy> Do the devs ever get together in one city? That way all the fans of your work can all get together and give you a great night out!
13:06:24  <Yorick> Kloopy: better question is if the devs ever get together in one country
13:06:33  <Kloopy> That's what I mean :)
13:07:44  <Belugas> hello
13:08:07  <Brianetta>
13:08:13  <Brianetta> Now there's a useful one
13:08:19  <Brianetta> J D Wetherspoon gift vouchers
13:08:24  <Kloopy> Awesome!
13:09:37  <Brianetta> "Vouchers are not transferable or negotiable and cannot be exchanged for cash."
13:09:49  <Brianetta> How do you buy gifts if they're not transferable?
13:09:54  <Kloopy> hehe
13:11:08  *** PierreW [] has joined #openttd
13:13:42  <Yorick> I think you can buy them for someone else
13:13:54  <Brianetta> I'd hope so.
13:14:07  <Brianetta> We need to find a Dutch equivalent, too
13:14:11  <Brianetta> Many devs are there
13:14:31  <Yorick> Brianetta: many = 1>
13:14:38  <Yorick> ?
13:15:21  <Belugas> Kloopy, it wold be very hard for us to meet, since we're spread in 2 continents or 6 countries (maybe more)
13:15:37  <Yorick> Brianetta: could you name 2?
13:15:45  <Belugas> altough some did get together once or twice
13:16:05  <Kloopy> You should start a donation fund for plane tickets! :)
13:16:14  *** Doorslammer [] has joined #openttd
13:27:08  <peter1138> Yeah, one-way. It would save money in the long run ;)
13:29:07  <Yorick> Belugas: what's the second continent?
13:29:22  <Gekz> A fundraiser?
13:29:29  <Gekz> But i cant afford my webhosting
13:29:29  <Gekz> :/
13:29:38  <Belugas> Yorick : american continent
13:30:43  <Belugas> peter1138, sorry, but i would pay the retunr home tivket myself  then ;)
13:32:01  <peter1138> Did I mean you? ;)
13:32:11  <Belugas> hooo... welcome HERE!!!!
13:33:26  <blathijs> Yorick: Me and Rubidium are Dutch at least. TrueBrain as well, though he is no longer active OpenTDD dev (still noai, though)
13:33:28  *** Bork [] has joined #openttd
13:33:33  <blathijs> Yorick: Darkvater is dutch, but has retired
13:33:47  <Yorick> oh sorry, blathijs, I forgot you :)
13:33:57  * Yorick gives blathijs a cookie
13:34:00  <peter1138> Darkvater is not dutch ;)
13:34:00  <Belugas> and TrueBrain is dutch too, altough his status is a bit ambivalent
13:34:22  <Yorick> is TrueBrain dutch twice?
13:34:30  <blathijs> peter1138: Darkvater lives in Holland, at least. Isn't he Dutch?
13:34:48  <peter1138> TrueBrain counts more due to the number of times he's retired.
13:34:51  <Belugas> he was bron in hungary
13:35:19  <Gekz> Oh nice, the fundraiser is complete.
13:35:20  <Gekz> lol
13:35:21  <blathijs> Belugas: Hmm, didn't know that. Though his name did kindof give it away :-)
13:35:31  <Gekz> Current amount: £494.30 / £486.00
13:35:44  <Yorick> @seen Darkvater
13:35:44  <DorpsGek> Yorick: I have not seen Darkvater.
13:35:47  <Belugas> true, blathijs :)
13:36:08  <Belugas> could be italian, just by his last name :)
13:36:16  <ln> i remember Darkvater and MiHaMiX even communicating in hungarian on this channel.
13:36:25  <blathijs> Belugas: Yeah, but at least not Dutch :-)
13:36:29  <dih> @seen "my glasses"
13:36:30  <DorpsGek> dih: Error: 'my glasses' is not a valid nick.
13:36:35  <dih> shoot
13:36:51  <Yorick> dih: do you even have those?
13:36:58  <dih> no i dont
13:37:05  <dih> but DorpsGek might
13:37:16  <Yorick> no wonder he couldn't find your glasses
13:37:51  *** Doorslammer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:38:08  <Kloopy> Is there a keyboard shortcut for the landscape levelling tool?
13:38:19  <Yorick> e
13:38:32  <Yorick> "Tron, status: active"
13:39:26  <Brianetta> @seen boobies
13:39:26  <DorpsGek> Brianetta: I have not seen boobies.
13:39:38  <Brianetta> (-:
13:39:38  <Kloopy> Thank you, Yorick... awesome. :D
13:40:30  *** Bork is now known as Doorslammer
13:40:31  <blathijs> Yorick: Where did you paste that from?
13:40:46  <Yorick> blathijs:
13:40:59  *** divo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:41:10  *** divo [] has joined #openttd
13:41:54  <blathijs> Hmm, that list is quite out of date...
13:42:08  <blathijs> And keeping a list of contributors with patch counts on the wiki is really never gonna work..
13:42:24  <dih> @seen jesus
13:42:24  <DorpsGek> dih: I have not seen jesus.
13:42:33  <dih> shame
13:43:00  <Gekz> @seen dih
13:43:01  <DorpsGek> Gekz: dih was last seen in #openttd 27 seconds ago: <dih> shame
13:43:06  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
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13:43:19  <Brianetta> @seen Brainstorm
13:43:19  <DorpsGek> Brianetta: I have not seen Brainstorm.
13:43:26  <Yorick> @seen "The Light"
13:43:26  <DorpsGek> Yorick: Error: 'The Light' is not a valid nick.
13:43:30  <Brianetta> @seen Brianetta
13:43:30  <DorpsGek> Brianetta: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 10 seconds ago: <Brianetta> @seen Brainstorm
13:43:32  <Yorick> :(
13:43:36  <Brianetta> @seen Brianetta
13:43:36  <DorpsGek> Brianetta: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 5 seconds ago: <Brianetta> @seen Brianetta
13:43:44  <Yorick> @seen "The_Light"
13:43:44  <DorpsGek> Yorick: I have not seen The_Light.
13:44:03  <peter1138> Tron didn't retire.
13:44:05  <Brianetta> So, DorpsGek can't actually see people unless they say something.
13:44:13  <Yorick> Brianetta: nope
13:44:28  <Yorick> @seen Tron
13:44:28  <DorpsGek> Yorick: Tron was last seen in #openttd 26 weeks, 4 days, 0 hours, 21 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <Tron> gcc 2.95 is plain obsolete (even has several bugs in its C++ part). further at the very least the justifications given are extremely oversimplified.
13:44:30  <Brianetta> @seen eQualizer
13:44:30  <DorpsGek> Brianetta: eQualizer was last seen in #openttd 10 weeks, 1 day, 19 hours, 6 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <eQualizer> Eddi|zuHause3: Thanks, resetengines did help.
13:44:42  <Yorick> Brianetta: try @seen *
13:44:54  <Gekz> Yorick: I hope you get banned by peter1138
13:44:56  <Brianetta> Yorick: No (:
13:44:56  <Belugas> Brianetta. please...
13:44:57  <dih> @seen with_my_eyes
13:44:57  <DorpsGek> dih: I have not seen with_my_eyes.
13:44:59  <Gekz> lol.
13:45:05  <Gekz> dih: with my own eyes
13:45:06  <Gekz> !
13:45:09  <Yorick> Gekz: why?
13:45:12  <dih> :-P
13:45:18  <eQualizer> ?
13:45:22  <Gekz> Yorick: inciting flatulence
13:45:24  <dih> hihi
13:45:29  <Belugas> or everyone playing -toying with the bot, in fact...
13:45:30  <Brianetta> eQualizer: Just botting
13:45:36  * dih hides
13:45:42  <dih> botting - lol
13:45:45  * Yorick hides after dih
13:45:53  <Brianetta> You've been quiet for ten weeks, and yet you bounce in when we mention your name (:
13:46:41  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: mikl]
13:48:14  <dih> Brianetta, true - perhaps that also works with some other people?
13:48:20  *** quadat [] has joined #openttd
13:48:24  *** dlunch [~dlunch@] has joined #openttd
13:48:25  <peter1138> @seen neli
13:48:25  <DorpsGek> peter1138: neli was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 10 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 37 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <neli> Eddi|zuHause3: the worst one was the highspeed train against the bridge ?
13:48:29  <dih> @seen guru3
13:48:29  <DorpsGek> dih: guru3 was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 18 hours, 56 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: * guru3 fades into the backgroundd of worry
13:48:39  <Yorick> yeah
13:48:41  <dih> oh - usually he has something with weeks there also
13:48:44  <Gekz> @seen Edward
13:48:44  <DorpsGek> Gekz: I have not seen Edward.
13:48:44  <Yorick> lets highlight people
13:48:48  <Gekz> 1
13:48:49  <peter1138> @seen divo
13:48:49  <DorpsGek> peter1138: divo was last seen in #openttd 24 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 10 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <divo> Wow thanks
13:48:54  <Gekz> @seen judas
13:48:54  <DorpsGek> Gekz: I have not seen judas.
13:48:57  <Gekz> O.o
13:48:57  <Yorick> @seen Gonozal_VIII
13:48:57  <DorpsGek> Yorick: Gonozal_VIII was last seen in #openttd 20 weeks, 6 days, 11 hours, 40 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <Gonozal_VIII> still nobody here
13:48:57  <dih> @seen Draakon
13:48:59  <peter1138> @seen jni
13:48:59  <DorpsGek> dih: Draakon was last seen in #openttd 10 weeks, 6 days, 19 hours, 8 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Draakon> *runs*
13:49:00  <DorpsGek> peter1138: I have not seen jni.
13:49:01  <dih> hehe
13:49:08  <peter1138> @seen pierrew
13:49:08  <DorpsGek> peter1138: I have not seen pierrew.
13:49:13  <Gekz> peter1138: why not just do what Yorick said, with the glob
13:49:15  <PierreW> liar
13:49:23  <dih> lol
13:49:35  <dih> you must have been quite for a long time if the bot does not know you :-D
13:49:58  <guru3> dih: ...
13:50:07  <guru3> i'm honered to be known for being not known
13:50:14  <guru3> (the irony there is killer)
13:50:23  <Gekz> honoured*
13:50:25  <Gekz> quiet*
13:50:46  <guru3> excuse my laggy ssh
13:50:53  <guru3> i explained that the last time ><
13:50:58  <dih> yeah - that is the reason for typos
13:51:10  <guru3> it's not that i can't spell
13:51:10  <guru3> really
13:51:12  <PierreW> explanation: "liar" was the first, i ever wrote in that channel, due to me being new here :)
13:51:13  <guru3> i just can't see what i'm typing
13:51:17  <Gekz> lol.
13:51:19  <guru3> and shorterm memory is only 7+-2 items
13:51:32  <Gekz> PierreW: haha hacks.
13:51:33  <guru3> so to keep every letter of a 60 character line in my head to correct for typos would be imposible
13:51:44  <Gekz> guru3: not for me
13:52:16  <guru3> you are amazing then
13:52:22  <Gekz> I am
13:52:23  <guru3> i'm normal
13:52:27  <Gekz> haha
13:52:32  * Gekz is a wannabe linguist
13:52:54  <guru3> i'm just an engineer
13:53:00  <guru3> we're supposed to be gramatically challanged
13:53:05  <guru3> comes from not being able to read our own handwriting
13:53:23  <Gekz> lol.
13:53:29  <Gekz> challenged*
13:53:59  <guru3> damn right
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13:56:54  *** CommanderZ [4e66a422@] has quit []
13:59:09  <dih> short stay
13:59:20  <Gekz> lol.
13:59:49  <guru3> was trying not to attract attention to himself
13:59:53  <Gekz> lol
13:59:56  <guru3> obviously, that doesn't work in RIC
13:59:58  <guru3> IRC
14:00:03  * guru3 mutters about typing too fast
14:01:17  *** dvo [] has joined #openttd
14:01:17  *** divo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:01:53  <Gekz> lol
14:02:39  <ln> Gekz: shut up
14:03:00  <Gekz> no.
14:06:36  <Belugas> [09:51] <PierreW> explanation: "liar" was the first, i ever wrote in that channel, due to me being new here :)  <-- so welcome here then :)
14:06:44  <PierreW> thanks :)
14:06:55  <Yorick> welcome
14:07:04  <PierreW> going after work to try out openttd, damn i'm looking forward to explore that stuff as an old ttdlx-player :)
14:07:29  <Gekz> lies
14:07:30  <planetmaker> explore the possibilities :)
14:07:31  <Belugas> i'm sure you'll find it has been enhanced a bit
14:08:03  <Gekz> Bonne nuit monsieurs
14:08:04  <PierreW> yeah, i've read... thats really sick what wishes are coming true i had those times
14:08:31  <glx> Gekz: last word is not french
14:08:38  <Gekz> I knoW.
14:08:40  <Gekz> lol.
14:08:44  <glx> it's monsieur or messieurs
14:08:47  <Brianetta> PierreW: It's hornbytastic
14:08:51  <glx> but not a mix of both
14:08:55  <Gekz> I was seeing who would point it out
14:08:56  <PierreW> Brianetta: i believe:)))
14:08:57  <Gekz> :/
14:09:37  <Belugas> heheh
14:09:39  <Belugas> nice try
14:10:01  *** SpComb^ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:10:03  <Gekz> I'm serious >_>
14:10:10  <Gekz> I was just reading over it for my test tomorrow
14:10:10  <Gekz> lol
14:10:10  *** quadat [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)]
14:10:14  <glx> btw good night Gekz
14:10:18  <Gekz> byes
14:15:50  <Kloopy> Can the YAPP "show reserved track" be improved for maglev? It's only just visible.
14:18:52  <Belugas> mmh
14:18:53  <Belugas> dunno
14:19:02  <Belugas> maybe
14:19:18  <glx> maybe use a grf to change maglev tracks
14:19:21  <Kloopy> It's great on diesel/electric track, of course.
14:19:39  <glx> YAPP uses the crashed palette
14:19:50  *** Farden [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:19:51  <Kloopy> glx, if YAPP was a patch, then yes... but as it's part of trunk I'd suggest it should be good by default.
14:20:20  <Brianetta>
14:20:45  <glx> it uses what it can, and crashed maglev tracks look a lot like normal maglev tracks
14:20:57  <Brianetta> I don't show reservations whilst playing, unless I am trying something radical
14:21:40  <Brianetta> I can nearly always predict which paths will be reserved, and after observing a new block for a while I can *always* predict it.
14:22:08  <hylje> Kloopy: the problem with maglev is that maglev track is mostly underlay with the little black things perpendicular to it the actual track
14:22:19  <Kloopy> Yeah, that's what it looks like.
14:23:01  <Kloopy> But we can use overlays these days, can't we?
14:23:04  <glx> and that's not YAPP's fault
14:24:10  <Kloopy> The reason I ask is I have a 10 platform dropoff and want to check how efficient the trains coming in and out are... it's hard to predict or see what's happening without decent overlays/crashed track showing.
14:27:24  <planetmaker> it's most efficient to not crash trains ;)
14:30:46  *** Celestar_ [] has joined #openttd
14:30:55  <Celestar_> morning
14:31:03  *** Celestar_ is now known as CelestarT42p
14:31:55  <planetmaker> lol. Moin Celestar
14:32:09  <Wolf01> hello Celestar
14:38:22  <FauxFaux> Gah, someone's anihilated the entire chatmsg code, I had patches against that, dammit. >.<
18:57:54  *** SpComb [] has joined #openttd
18:58:16  <frosch123> i.e. every time ottd says 'compatible grf' loaded
18:58:16  <peter1138> Argh, too many windows open :o
18:58:24  <Yorick> ok, I'll reference by md5sum then :)
18:58:29  <frosch123> whatever 'compatible' means
18:58:32  <Yorick> peter1138: on lindows?
18:58:39  <Rubidium> reference by grfid+md5
18:59:38  <peter1138> Ah, gui sprites now working :D
18:59:59  <peter1138> Silly 2cc coder, put the gui sprites in with the trains, and the track sprites as a separate GRF...
19:00:24  * peter1138 hides from the coder...
19:00:52  <Ammler> hehe, length is 32, sorry about...
19:01:05  <Yorick> Ammler: is it?
19:01:17  * fonso impersonates DJNekkid and drags peter1138 out for punishment
19:02:19  <Ammler> Yorick: yep, I took it wrong 16byte=32 chars
19:02:27  *** Tekky [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:02:41  *** Tekky_ is now known as Tekky
19:02:47  <Yorick> if I encode it as bin, I'm quite sure it is not 32 chars anymore
19:04:31  <frosch123> encode it as xml: <md5><bit><index>0</index><value>1</value>....
19:05:34  *** david [] has joined #openttd
19:05:44  *** jessica_br [] has joined #openttd
19:05:46  <Yorick> frosch123: ^^
19:05:53  *** david is now known as Guest1710
19:06:22  <peter1138> Cool. It works.
19:06:29  <jessica_br> hello, how do you guys make vehicles auto replacement to work in openttd?
19:07:01  <frosch123> open the vehicle list -> "manage list" -> "autoreplace"
19:07:02  <Ammler> Yorick: just to explain, why I had 32 in mind :P
19:07:04  <frosch123> or similiar
19:07:30  <jessica_br> you mean, in the hangar?
19:07:37  <frosch123> no in the menu bar
19:07:46  <jessica_br> uh
19:07:54  <jessica_br> let me check
19:07:57  <frosch123> the vehicle icons that open a list of all your vehicles of a specific type
19:08:05  <jessica_br> ah i see
19:09:57  <jessica_br> but tell me, when i click autoreplace, do my vehicles start autoreplacing when get old?
19:10:09  <frosch123> no, that would be autorenew
19:10:15  <jessica_br> ahh
19:10:25  <jessica_br> im sorry then, i made my question wrongly
19:10:27  <frosch123> that is in the 'patch settings' dialog
19:10:51  <jessica_br> let me check
19:11:19  <Ammler> peter1138: quoted you about the 2cc coder, his answer was, that he didn't code the metro, just added those GUI sprites.
19:11:38  <Ammler> we are currently playing that set
19:11:58  <peter1138> Haha
19:12:03  <Ammler> the final metro.grf will be from foobar, btw.
19:12:07  <frosch123> err, he added gui sprites to an existing grf?
19:12:29  <Ammler> to his set
19:12:45  <Ammler> which isn't released as final yet
19:13:18  <peter1138> frosch123, the odd bit is, there are two GRFs. One contains trains, and one contains the track sprites.
19:13:28  <peter1138> The GUI parts for the new track type, however, are in with the trains ;)
19:13:36  * peter1138 has moved them with his working copy.
19:15:02  <Ammler> peter1138: there are no final grfs of both grfs yet...
19:15:34  <jessica_br> frosch123, i already have old vehicles. If i set autorenew will my old vehicles start to be replaced?
19:16:05  <frosch123> if they visit a depot and you have enough money, then yes
19:16:18  <jessica_br> ah, nice
19:16:50  <peter1138> Ammler, I know. I'm using it as my sample for rail type support.
19:18:23  <Ammler> is it possible to disable train renaming?
19:19:06  <frosch123> place a 'return CMD_ERROR' in the server side command function
19:19:30  <Ammler> since when is that in trunk?
19:19:39  <glx> frosch123: good for desyncs
19:19:48  <Ammler> maybe I just didn't realize that :-)
19:20:15  <frosch123> well, I took the more didactical approach :p
19:21:16  <glx> at least only the client desyncs
19:21:40  <Ammler> the one, which tries to rename or others too?
19:21:52  <frosch123> the one that is trying to rename
19:22:12  <frosch123> if you use such a patch for a half year, noone will ever try again to rename a vehicle
19:22:25  <Ammler> I renamed a train, but can't revert it :-)
19:22:41  <Ammler> because I can enter less chars, then it was before...
19:22:51  <Bjarni> <-- do you think those Korean chars look correctly?
19:23:05  <Bjarni> or are you as good a judge as me in this matter?
19:23:19  <glx> looks korean enough for me
19:23:22  *** welshdragon [~vista@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:23:47  <Yorick> frosch123: try it with DEF_RECIEVE_PACKET(PACKET_CLIENT_COMMAND)
19:24:05  <Ammler> might be too late for them, now :-)
19:24:07  *** daspork_ [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
19:24:42  <Ammler> frosch123: we won't use patches on our public server :-)
19:25:55  *** daspork [] has joined #openttd
19:26:27  <peter1138> Pom te pom
19:26:43  <Bjarni> looks like people think it's good enough.... which is good enough for me :)
19:27:59  <Rubidium> Bjarni: doesn't look very korean to me; lots of the chars look chinese/japanese instead of korean
19:28:48  <Bjarni> are you sure?
19:29:02  <Bjarni> because this is UTF-8
19:29:27  <Bjarni> I was thinking if I picked the right font, not the right chars
19:30:06  <Yorick> Bjarni: as far as I can read, it's chinese
19:30:13  <Bjarni> heh
19:30:19  <Bjarni> it's clearly not Chinese
19:30:35  <glx> too many rounds to be chinese
19:30:43  <Bjarni> I don't know a single char in that screenshot (apart from the latin chars)
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19:31:17  <Yorick> glx: where are the rounds?
19:31:33  <glx> circles ...
19:31:57  <Yorick> chinese has circles
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19:33:07  <Belugas> and 5 which are right now famous... you know, the ones that look like handcuffs?
19:33:11  <Rubidium> Bjarni: as far as I remember Korean consists of only rounds and straight lines
19:33:14  *** Roujin [] has joined #openttd
19:33:39  <Bjarni> <-- THIS is Chinese
19:34:13  <Yorick> no, that's Korean
19:34:23  <ln> no, it's Danish
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19:34:39  <Bjarni> *isgh*
19:34:43  <Bjarni> *sigh
19:34:47  <Yorick> too many rounds to be chinese
19:37:59  <Bjarni> <-- This is what Danish looks like
19:38:26  <Bjarni> <-- and if you didn't know, this is Russian
19:38:26  <ln> you just copied chinese.png to danish.png
19:39:03  <ln> Bjarni: btw, how did you make that danish look so bad? negative spacing and so on
19:39:15  <Roujin> the danish are weird people.. they have awefully narrow characters :P
19:39:23  <Bjarni> looks like my patch isn't quite finished yet
19:39:32  <ln> what is it about?
19:39:33  <Bjarni> the Danish screenshot is using the wrong font :s
19:39:37  <Yorick> Bjarni: no, it is norwegian
19:40:00  <Roujin> show me some japanese :D
19:40:26  *** grumbel [] has joined #openttd
19:40:33  <ln> Roujin: that's a dangerous thing to say
19:40:35  <Bjarni> <ln> what is it about? <-- if no font is specified and a language can't be fully displayed, the game will select a suitable font on it's own (mac only)
19:40:57  <Roujin> mac only? racism! :P
19:41:23  <Bjarni> actually not
19:41:24  <Yorick> Bjarniism!
19:41:26  <Roujin> wasn't the "double size" feature removed because it was windows only?
19:41:36  <ln> Bjarni: does that mean that e.g. cyrillic would work without installing separate fonts or grfs for ottd?
19:41:56  <Yorick> ln: it already does
19:42:03  <Yorick> you just need to specify the font
19:42:07  <Roujin> stating something along the lines of "this is a multiplatform application, so we won't have a feature that's only available on a specific platform"?
19:42:07  <Yorick> and compile with freetype
19:42:14  <Bjarni> I coded it as OS independant as I could but I don't know how to select fonts on non-OSX systems
19:42:16  <ln> Yorick: which is silly. why would i need to specify a font.
19:42:30  <Yorick> Roujin: they don't include xchat support either, because it's windows only
19:42:42  <ln> Yorick: i never needed to specify a font for e.g. Firefox, and it's showing cyrillic fine.
19:42:52  *** gregor_ [] has joined #openttd
19:42:54  <Bjarni> Roujin: <-- 日本語
19:43:06  <Yorick> ln: firefox is using a font by default
19:43:14  <Yorick> openttd is using the standard sprite font
19:43:32  <ln> yes, so?
19:43:32  <Yorick> Bjarni: that's japanese :)
19:43:38  <TinoDidriksen> Sites specify a codepage which Firefox can use to query the OS for a font capable of that codepage.
19:43:38  <gregor_> while joining the coop server, ottd crashs and give the error message:
19:43:39  <gregor_> openttd: /home/gregor/openttd/src/network/network_chat_gui.cpp:227: void NetworkDrawChatMessage(): Assertion `blitter->BufferSize(width, height) < (int)(_chatmsg_box.width * _chatmsg_box.height * sizeof(uint32))' failed.
19:43:46  <Bjarni> Yorick: that's what I said
19:43:51  <Bjarni> 日本語
19:44:05  <Roujin> ugh, the font's very fudgy
19:44:11  <ln> the earring bug is still not fixed.
19:44:29  <glx> Yorickのばか
19:44:33  <Yorick> gregor: >
19:44:45  <Belugas> who said it was a bug?
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19:45:06  <ln> Belugas: it's on fs.
19:45:09  <Yorick> Belugas: I know assertions are a feature
19:45:29  <Bjarni> glx: you can say that again
19:45:35  <Yorick> ...and the console is a gui
19:45:44  <Roujin> can hardly read any of the kanji :)
19:45:50  <glx> Bjarni: what?
19:45:56  <Bjarni> that's because it's hiragana
19:46:01  <Yorick> glxのばか
19:46:05  <Belugas> ln, does not mean it's a valid bug.  Yorick: WHAT???
19:46:16  <Bjarni> or maybe you mean 日本語
19:46:18  <glx> Yorick: do you know what it means?
19:46:26  <Yorick> glx: should I?
19:46:30  <Bjarni> no
19:46:34  <Bjarni> :P
19:46:40  <Roujin> the hiragana and katakana are readable, but the more complicated kanji are too fudgy to read :P
19:46:58  <Bjarni> hehe
19:47:07  <Roujin> damnit I can't read what you're typing because it won't display in my program :P
19:47:13  <Roujin> only garbage
19:47:26  <Yorick> Roujin: get an unicode client
19:47:33  <Bjarni> it's nice of you to request a language your computer can't handle :P
19:47:51  <Roujin> well I _can_ view the screenshot :P
19:48:24  <peter1138> Ammler, as you're in the know, are there any tunnel and depot icons and cursors? heh
19:48:37  <Bjarni> notice "Train 1" in Chinese and Japanese and compare it
19:48:58  <Yorick> Bjarni: you mean Japanese and Korean
19:49:07  <Roujin> Yorick stfu :P
19:49:12  <ln> Belugas: the bug was never claimed to be invalid.
19:49:27  <Belugas> was it ever claimed to be valid?
19:49:42  <glx> Bjarni: nice catch ;)
19:49:42  <ln> of course.
19:49:44  <Bjarni> Yorickのばか
19:50:01  <Belugas> ln: which number?
19:50:08  <ln> Belugas: 69
19:50:09  <Yorick> Bjarni: what's that supposed to mean?
19:50:26  <Bjarni> it's supposed to mean what it says
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19:50:40  <Yorick> Bjarni: in what language?
19:50:54  <Bjarni> but if you have to start by figuring out which language it is then you are fucked
19:51:17  <TinoDidriksen> Luckily Unicode codepoints tell you which language it is.
19:51:31  *** [gone]buster is now known as [com]buster
19:51:31  <Roujin> hmm weird, i thought train in japanese was densha
19:51:37  <ln> well, let's have a link, too:
19:51:53  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
19:52:08  <Belugas> it's been closed as won't implement
19:52:17  <ln> i know.
19:52:21  <Belugas> i see no reason to re-open it
19:52:22  <Roujin> the second kanji is sha alright, but the first one, despite being fudgy, is clearly not "den" (electricity)
19:52:30  <Yorick> ln: request re-open
19:52:49  <Belugas> and no patch to support the request??
19:52:49  <ln> Belugas: but it doesn't say it won't be implemented because the bug as such is invalid.
19:53:05  *** Fennec [~ff@] has joined #openttd
19:53:10  <Belugas> no, it says nothing more than "won't implement"
19:53:18  *** Fennec [~ff@] has left #openttd []
19:53:21  *** Fennec [~ff@] has joined #openttd
19:53:34  <ln> if someone had entered an invalid bug in the FS, i bet he would have felt the power of the force by Darkvater.
19:55:39  <Bjarni> <Roujin> hmm weird, i thought train in japanese was densha <-- well.... try to look it up
19:55:39  <Bjarni> 列車【れっしゃ】
19:55:40  <Bjarni>     (n) train (ordinary); (P)
19:55:59  <ln> Belugas: btw, here's my old patch for it:  (looks a little bad because it doesn't mirror the sprite)
19:56:01  <Yorick> he doesn't have unicode
19:56:04  <Yorick> and it's chinese
19:56:09  <Bjarni> 電車【でんしゃ】
19:56:09  <Bjarni>     (n) (electric) train; (P)
19:56:30  <Bjarni> so the OTTD translator used the word for train where you thought of the word for electric train
19:57:18  *** Yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [there's no need to argue anymore]
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19:57:31  * Bjarni slaps Yorick
19:57:36  <Roujin> true.. since it can also be steam and diesel trains...
19:57:37  <Bjarni> now let that be a lesson to you
19:57:44  <Bjarni> Yorickのばか
19:57:47  <glx> now find the reference in the kick message
19:58:13  <Yorick> could you tell me what that means in english?
19:58:23  <TinoDidriksen> のばか is Hiragana Letters No, Ba, and Ka.
19:58:35  <Bjarni> I knew that
19:58:35  <TinoDidriksen> Should know what it means from that...
19:58:41  <glx> TinoDidriksen: don't tell more :)
19:58:47  <TinoDidriksen> Oh, I won't.
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19:59:15  <Bjarni> I would have to know because the only copy paste I did in this channel tonight were the dictionary stuff and the links
19:59:48  <Bjarni> (yes, I'm writing Asian chars on my latin keyboard)
20:00:00  <glx> me too
20:00:02  <Yorick> oh
20:00:06  * Yorick slaps glx
20:00:13  * Rubidium rather uses Romaji
20:02:45  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: Wezz6400]
20:02:51  *** Yorick [] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
20:02:56  <Belugas> ln, that is a good start.
20:03:17  <Belugas> do you think you can mirror the said sprite?
20:04:38  <peter1138> Solution: NOT a bug.
20:04:44  <ln> Belugas: i'm not sure if the sprite handling code supports mirroring at all.
20:04:59  <Rubidium> mirroring == wrong lighting
20:05:15  <ln> one earring == bisexuals
20:05:20  *** bowman^2 is now known as bowman
20:05:24  <ln> which one is better?
20:05:29  <Brianetta> Initial city size multiplier.  How does it change after being "initial"?
20:05:35  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.]
20:06:02  *** Wezz6400 [] has joined #openttd
20:07:01  <Belugas> [16:05] <ln> one earring == bisexuals  <-- this is fucking interpretation based on social references!
20:07:06  <Belugas> BULLOCKS!
20:08:14  <Brianetta> Belugas: Interesting patch idea:  Flip the whole game graphics in X, except signs and station names.
20:08:20  <Roujin> <ln> which one is better? <--- clearly, bisexuals ^_^
20:08:37  <Fennec> Brianetta: haha
20:08:49  <Roujin> they have double the fun, you know :P
20:09:06  <ln> m'kay...
20:09:22  <Brianetta> Actually, once settled into a monogamous, closed relationship, they have the same amount of fun as anybody else in such a relationship.
20:09:57  <ln> but let's drop the subject before mr. B notices it.
20:10:08  <Brianetta> Advantage of being bi is that more peoples' bums are worth looking at.
20:12:22  <Belugas> the subject does not matter to me, i had my share of fun, thank you.  But i suspect you would like the "bug" be fixed becasue of the social reference it has.  Which is why I'm not in favor of fixing, since for me, there is nothing to fix
20:12:41  <Eddi|zuHause>  <Roujin> wasn't the "double size" feature removed because it was windows only? <- no, it was removed because it could not be ported to the new blitter system
20:14:02  <Belugas> damned.. i hate doing translations for work...
20:15:01  *** Roujin [] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> <- Organize your IRC]
20:15:13  *** Roujin [] has joined #openttd
20:15:17  *** gregor_ [] has quit [Quit: gregor_]
20:15:51  <Roujin> okay, I have now joined with another client. It looks like sh**, but it's supposed to understand unicode...
20:16:19  <TinoDidriksen> Copy/paste 列車【れっしゃ】ÊÞå
20:16:24  <TinoDidriksen> Looks ok?
20:16:35  <Roujin> nope. grrr
20:17:01  <TinoDidriksen> Even mIRC can do Unicode...
20:21:08  <TinoDidriksen> If nothing else, Pidgin can log on to IRC.
20:22:04  <Roujin> I'll be back.
20:22:19  <Roujin> Hopefully with the ability to read unicode :S
20:22:24  *** Roujin [] has quit [Quit: Dana]
20:27:05  <Brianetta> Why can't I build humongous long suspension bridges in the scenario editor?
20:27:18  <Rubidium> max 100 tiles?
20:27:29  <Brianetta> Nowhere near *that* humongous
20:27:40  <Brianetta> 32 tiles
20:27:44  <Rubidium> longbridges disabled?
20:27:55  <Brianetta> enabled for sure
20:28:38  <Brianetta> ah
20:28:45  <Brianetta> Pikka's GRF disables them
20:29:17  <Brianetta> disable, add, re-enable
20:29:27  <Brianetta> "Expensive, slow and short bridges"
20:29:33  <Brianetta> I'd prefer expensive and slow
20:31:13  <Brianetta> Disable, set clock forward, build, disable, rewind clock
20:31:25  <Brianetta> *That's* how to make a long suspension bridge (:
20:31:40  <Brianetta> enable, even
20:34:08  <Brianetta> If you terraform an above-snowline town to below snowline, will it start to grow without food?
20:34:40  <Eddi|zuHause> never tried that ;)
20:35:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd assume that it checks the town center road tile for snow/desert
20:36:17  <Eddi|zuHause> but i'd have to look it up
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20:38:40  <TinoDidriksen> :: 列車【れっしゃ】ÊÞå ОзЎелОй
20:39:37  <Roujin> some question marks, an ae, a o with a line through it, an a with a circle above and some russian stuff
20:40:25  <TinoDidriksen> You don't have asian fonts?
20:40:54  <TinoDidriksen> - Japanese.
20:40:58  <Roujin> maybe i have to set another font
20:41:21  <TinoDidriksen> Firefox should do it for you.
20:41:55  <TinoDidriksen> Asian fonts are not installed by default, though.
20:42:03  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
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21:09:14  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:10:23  *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
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21:16:16  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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21:16:52  <TinoDidriksen> :: 列車【れっしゃ】ÊÞå ОзЎелОй
21:18:47  <Kloopy> irssi + putty! :D
21:18:49  <Kloopy> Unicode heaven.
21:19:18  <TinoDidriksen> Do those show fine for you, btw?
21:19:28  <Zuu> Nope, or well some of them.
21:19:32  <bowman> hehe
21:19:38  <Zuu> The later part, but I'm on Windows + XChat.
21:19:54  <bowman> all the irssi users fail to configure either their terminal or irssi itself though :P
21:20:04  <TinoDidriksen> Trying to debug Roujin's Unicode deficiency.
21:20:21  <Zuu> And putty default to non-utf8 while my debian systems run utf8 :)
21:20:23  <bowman> introducing ncurses and terminal emulation as extra failure points probably wont help him :)
21:20:34  <Roujin> ha, i can read them!
21:20:38  <Roujin> woot!
21:20:49  <bowman> complex issue
21:21:20  <Roujin> thanks a bunch for your time Tino :)
21:21:33  <Roujin> ressha - Train :)
21:21:37  <bowman> all irc clients should have one default legacy codepage as fallback, and detect/decode any utf8 sequences on top of that :) (for incoming), then a separate setting per context regarding how to actually send
21:22:07  <bowman> kinda like mirc hehe
21:22:42  <TinoDidriksen> Or, everything should just be UTF-8. Much easier.
21:23:12  <Zuu> I just checked and I have UTF-8 for, and still I only see the later half of your message.
21:23:28  <TinoDidriksen> You don't have asian fonts then, probably...
21:23:31  <Rubidium> then your font sucks
21:23:34  <TinoDidriksen> Same problem Roujin had.
21:23:42  <bowman> font linking is also a required client feature :)
21:24:04  <TinoDidriksen> Or, your font is not set to a unicode capable one.
21:24:35  <Zuu> And even on a local channel there is problem of users of the same country not using the same encoding of the local characters... :)
21:25:08  <Suisse> Year: -21 the big bang is coming :D
21:25:19  <Suisse> !password
21:25:19  *** Suisse was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
21:25:20  *** Suisse [] has joined #openttd
21:25:24  <Suisse> damn T.T
21:25:27  <bowman> only way its gonna change is if all popular clients suddenly change their default encoding for sending to utf8 hehe
21:25:43  *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:26:41  <TinoDidriksen> Well, this is CJK (列車) followed by Hiragana (れっしゃ) followed by Danish (ÊÞå) followed by Russian (ОзЎелОй) in UTF-8.
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21:28:54  <vargadanis> hi folks...
21:29:03  <vargadanis> it might be only me but I think I have found a bug
21:29:09  <vargadanis> that might have already been fixed
21:29:16  <vargadanis> let me know if so
21:29:21  <vargadanis> ahmm so here it is
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21:29:34  <vargadanis> the incomes of the aircrafts dont show up anywhere
21:30:21  <frosch123> can dorpsgek already answer the question?
21:30:27  <Rubidium> sounds you're messing with transfers
21:30:30  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
21:30:37  <Rubidium> and you don't know how it actually works
21:31:06  <Prof_Frink> You are meddling with forces you do not understand.
21:31:51  <vargadanis> ahm.. what does the missing grf files mean?
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21:33:04  <Roujin> you loaded a savegame/scenario where custom .grf files were added to the game, and don't have those .grf files. Search on the forums/grfcrawler/internet for the missing files.
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21:34:17  <Roujin> for the first question, if you're using "transfer" orders, just don't use them. Use normal ones instead ("go to xy"..)
21:34:50  <vargadanis> k
21:35:53  <vargadanis> but..
21:36:07  <vargadanis> why can't I use transfer?
21:36:31  <Roujin> "transfer" orders mean "unload the cargo/passengers there, but tell them that they should wait at that station until they are picked up again (by another vehicle)" and you won't get any money from them until they are transported to their _final_ destination
21:36:31  <glx> you can use them if you know how to use them
21:38:10  <Roujin> for example you can make the following:
21:38:14  <Roujin> [coal mine] [Station]----------[Double-][-Station]-------[Station] [power plant]
21:39:08  <vargadanis> oooo
21:39:08  <Roujin> the double station in the middle is somewhere, in the middle of nowhere. You have one train from the coal mine to that middle station, and tell it to _transfer_ its cargo in the middle station.
21:39:09  <vargadanis> aaaa
21:39:27  <vargadanis> i understand now
21:39:59  <Roujin> another train goes between the middle station, picks up the _transferred_ coal, and brings it to the power plant (this time no transfer order!). then at the end you'll recieve money for the whole trip
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21:41:29  <Roujin> that's why you don't get any money if you're using transfer orders in "normal" situations - the cargo/passengers think they're not at their final destination yet. and you only get money when they are at their final destination
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21:44:08  <vargadanis> i c
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21:44:22  <vargadanis> for for a plane I need to have 4 things in my route
21:44:31  <vargadanis> 2 of each station
21:44:36  <vargadanis> one of the full load
21:44:41  <vargadanis> and the other is unload
21:44:51  <Prof_Frink> No.
21:44:54  <vargadanis> reversed... unload full load
21:45:01  <vargadanis> then?
21:45:03  <Prof_Frink> Just the Full Load orders
21:45:22  <Roujin> which version of openttd are you using?
21:45:27  <Prof_Frink> Unloading happens automagically if the cargo is accepted by the station
21:45:51  <vargadanis> 0.6.2
21:45:59  <vargadanis> ohh
21:46:04  <vargadanis> uload won't hurt though
21:46:09  <vargadanis> i just modified 8 planes
21:46:11  <Prof_Frink> Yes, it will.
21:46:14  <vargadanis> really?
21:46:17  <vargadanis> oh my
21:46:18  <vargadanis> ok
21:46:22  <vargadanis> why?
21:46:29  <glx> they won't load
21:47:00  <Roujin> uhm.. it's changed with the new order window, hasn't it?
21:47:12  <Roujin> aren't unload and load independant now?
21:47:47  <Roujin> with one drop down you can select loading option, with another drop down unloading option for an order
21:47:54  <Prof_Frink> I don't know. I'm still playing TTDPatch 1.7.
21:47:55  <Eddi|zuHause> no, they aren't not.
21:48:41  <glx> Roujin: but it's not in 0.6.x
21:48:58  <Roujin> oops - thought it was
21:49:05  <Roujin> sorry
21:49:21  <vargadanis> k
21:49:27  <vargadanis> just modified the planes
21:49:33  <vargadanis> they only load now
21:50:31  <Roujin> vargadanis: are those planes flying the same route, or different ones?
21:51:15  <vargadanis> same
21:52:26  <Roujin> then I should tell you about shared orders.. try clicking on "go to" of one of the planes, and then (with the go to arrow) click on another of those planes, while holding CTRL. Then they will have "shared orders"
21:53:07  <Roujin> shared orders are good if multiple vehicles are doing the same job - if you change the orders of one of them, the orders of the others will also be changed in the same way
21:55:22  <vargadanis> i c
21:55:25  <vargadanis> that is useful
21:55:27  <vargadanis> tanx
21:56:15  <Roujin> well, it would have spared you changing stuff on 8 planes if you had known that before ;)
21:56:22  <Roujin> but now you know
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21:57:55  <vargadanis> yup
21:58:01  <vargadanis> can I share orders with only 2 planes?
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21:59:16  <Roujin> no, with any number
21:59:18  <glx> with as much as you want
22:00:11  <Roujin> just open the order window of another plane and click goto and (with ctrl) on one of the two planes that already share their orders
22:00:44  <Roujin> you can also click on the planes in their viewports (little windows following their view), or their icon in a depot or such..
22:02:09  <vargadanis> yup
22:02:13  <vargadanis> worked great
22:02:39  <vargadanis> now, my income looks somewhat different
22:02:44  <vargadanis> ^_^
22:03:05  <vargadanis> what about the roads of the towns and the bus stops?
22:03:27  <vargadanis> I cannot build bus stops in the towns cause the road belongs to the town
22:06:37  <Roujin> check the "configure patches" window
22:07:02  <Roujin> section "Stations"
22:07:28  <Roujin> the option you'll want to enable is "Allow drive-through road stops on town owned roads"
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22:20:02  <flaske> hey, any devs here tonight? I've got a couple of code related questions=)
22:20:28  <Eddi|zuHause> "i have questions" is never a good introduction...
22:20:38  <Eddi|zuHause> especially if you don't actually ask any questions...
22:21:18  <flaske> heh, i guess. Got one on interger division of the OverflowSafeInt64 type
22:21:54  <Eddi|zuHause> that's still not a question...
22:22:31  <flaske> I'm trying to find the relation of one Money vs another Money, of course I get integer division problems. Cant cast to double or float, and that's about the range of my skills there
22:22:48  <flaske> double progress = (currentValue / targetCompanyValue ) * 100;
22:23:27  <Zuu> "(double) targetCompanyValue" to cast it to double.
22:23:43  <flaske> yeah, that doesnt work
22:23:44  <glx> openttd will never use double (nor float)
22:24:13  <Eddi|zuHause> use currentValue*100 / targetCompanyValue;
22:24:17  <flaske> alright, Im just getting started on the code base, so Im not too familiar with it
22:25:05  <flaske> wont that result in integer division aswell?
22:25:20  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but the result will be significantly >0 ;)
22:25:49  <flaske> ah, yes :) thanks alot mate
22:26:04  <Eddi|zuHause> anything that does NOT result in integer division is the wrong approach
22:26:18  <Eddi|zuHause> it MUST be integer division, or clients will desync in multiplayer
22:26:43  <flaske> really? interesting. so i should stay away from floating points then?
22:26:52  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. very far
22:27:06  <Zuu> Floats are not garantuied to have exactly the value you give them in the same way as ints.
22:27:19  <Zuu> Only to a certain precision they keep their value.
22:27:26  <Eddi|zuHause> floats may be rounded differently on different architecture
22:27:32  <flaske> ah, well thanks for the warning. I'm gonna try to keep my code as "clean" as possible for once
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22:28:52  <flaske> there's alot of support functions I have no clue about yet. but some of it makes life really easy, i just love the way strings are handled, that code is so smooth hehe
22:30:05  <Zuu> Uhm, strings, you love the string engine of OpenTTD, oh guess taste differs which is a Good thing. :)
22:30:40  <Zuu> Or you where ironic maybe?
22:31:37  <flaske> hehe no man, i like it
22:31:55  <Eddi|zuHause> the guy who created that was a genious ;)
22:32:49  <flaske> was going to add some new dropdown menus. Thought it was gonna take for ever, kinda like the save load stuff im gonna do now next. but thanks to the absolutly streamlined hadling of strings I changed 3 lines, and added one to english.txt and presto :)
22:33:49  <Eddi|zuHause> a problem is changing a string means full recompile
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22:34:28  <flaske> yeah, but i cant complain
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22:35:49  <Zuu> flaske: What stuff are you worknig on?
22:36:16  <flaske> i was going to see if I could do anything interesting with scenario missions
22:37:02  <Eddi|zuHause> make tutorials ;)
22:37:10  <flaske> kinda along the lines of "operate 23 profitable vehciles by 1937" or "connect this and that and this town"
22:37:44  <flaske> tutorials? how is that?
22:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the use for your patch ;)
22:39:10  <Zuu> Making scenarios of advancing challenge level?
22:40:07  <flaske> hause: ah, no. at least that wasn't my main objective. you see, i was playing locomotion, and seeing how many flaws it has comparred to OpenTTD, I figured the only kinda fun thing about it is the fact that it's not allways openended
22:40:07  <Zuu> Or having multiple missions in a scenario file and having only the first one shown until that one is completed and then the next one is displayed?
22:40:57  <flaske> My idea was to edit savegames and carge them with "objectives". Like a map of holland, and an objective to transport 10,000 passengers by this and that year
22:41:10  <Eddi|zuHause> flaske: but i mean it, interactive tutorials that explain a newbie how to place bus stops
22:41:10  <flaske> or connect all the towns in southern norway to one rail network
22:41:16  <Eddi|zuHause> or train station
22:41:20  <Eddi|zuHause> and then signals
22:41:23  <flaske> arn't those in the game?
22:41:42  <flaske> aah, no they're not hmm
22:41:52  <flaske> they were there in the original, i remember
22:42:00  <Zuu> flaske: They got removed quite fast as they broke when new features was added I think.
22:42:00  <Eddi|zuHause> TT original had short introduction "movies"
22:42:29  <Zuu> Or it was only TT and not TTD, don't know exactly.
22:42:51  <flaske> i think it was both. but TTD had an extra showing directional signals =)
22:43:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think TTD ever had them
22:43:52  <Eddi|zuHause> the TT ones did not show signals either
22:43:59  <flaske> so what do you guys think? has anyone ever gone down this path before?
22:44:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's a really interesting feature
22:44:36  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:45:13  <flaske> yeah? Im glad to hear that
22:45:22  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's a huge task to make it flexible enough
22:45:33  <flaske> I know. God, I know
22:45:53  <flaske> but I think if you start out simple...
22:46:09  <Eddi|zuHause> and then allow users to specify scenarios without recompiling the game ;)
22:46:17  <Bjarni> TTD had introduction movies but they were really broken like the computer could build two stations and sometimes it failed to connect them
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22:46:38  <flaske> ah, there we are. thanks Bjarni
22:46:59  <flaske> I've got two kinds of objectives implemented so far. but they are hardcoded to load on all maps
22:47:14  <flaske> like you said Eddi|zuHause, that is what needs to be in place
22:47:47  <flaske> something in the scenario editor i suppose... it's a big todo as of now
22:53:32  <flaske> so, some technical stuff: are we supposed to go object oriented now?
22:53:56  <Bjarni> only if you think that the code will benefit from it
22:54:57  <flaske> mmm, yeah. I think so. all the objectives should have some kind of heritage maybe. like IsComplete() or GetInfoString() or something
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22:55:31  <Bjarni> you should make sure that the code is readable and easily understandable
22:56:20  <flaske> I'll do my best. But I'm affraid I dont know much about all the tools, allocaters and whatnot that i _should_ use
22:56:58  <flaske> i just use the standard C stuff for noew
22:59:35  <Bjarni> rule 1: the code should be clear and readable
22:59:47  <Bjarni> rule 2: the code shouldn't contain any bugs
23:00:02  <Bjarni> rule 3: the code shouldn't contain any memory leaks
23:00:15  <Rubidium> rule 0: the code shall obey the coding style guidelines
23:01:02  <Bjarni> rule 4: the code shouldn't use more CPU power than needed
23:01:15  <flaske> I'll do my best. esp if anyone other than me might be slightly interested in this
23:01:19  <Bjarni> Rubidium: I was planning on saving the best for last :/
23:01:44  <Rubidium> rule 5: thou shalt not beg/annoy the developers every <too short timeframe> for inclusion
23:02:37  <Eddi|zuHause> rule 5a: especially not before the feature is finished :p
23:02:42  <flaske> into the release?
23:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause> flaske: into trunk, mainly
23:03:29  <flaske> haha God no, I wouln't worry, im a perfectionist and this is the kinda thing that would take a while =)
23:04:05  <flaske> and TT has allways been an open ended game. I dont know if people would be interested in "missions"
23:04:08  <Bjarni> I prefer slow code writing over bloatware
23:04:53  <flaske> tell me about it, im an embedded developer really. any byte counts
23:04:56  <Eddi|zuHause> well, subsidies are some kind of mission
23:04:58  <glx> not like autoreplace ;)
23:05:06  <Bjarni> ...
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23:05:09  <Eddi|zuHause> things that give the player bonuses if he does
23:05:10  <Bjarni> well
23:05:34  <Bjarni> we all learned for that experience, specially that we would like to have this feature
23:05:41  <flaske> Eddi|zuHause, hmm maybe. I was thinking you "win" the map. like a single player campain thing
23:05:56  <Bjarni> and it worked flawlessly in the 3rd attempt
23:06:07  <Eddi|zuHause> "win" is just a special kind of bonus ;)
23:06:17  <Bjarni> unless people started using stupid GRF overrides >_<
23:06:44  <flaske> hehe yeah
23:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and especially for "tutorial missions", immediately ending the game for each accomplished goal is kinda counterproductive
23:07:23  <flaske> well, one can do both i suppose. Did you ever try Locomotion?
23:07:34  <Eddi|zuHause> also, even after "winning", they should be allowed to play on
23:07:54  <flaske> of yes, for sure. Like in Civilization
23:07:58  <Eddi|zuHause> no... but i have the CD here, if that counts ;)
23:08:23  <Bjarni> I tried the demo of Locomotion. Does that count?
23:08:23  <flaske> it's a broken game in many ways. but it differes in one major way from TT, it's not open ended
23:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> my brother gave it to me... i have never used it
23:08:35  <Bjarni> evil brother
23:08:45  * Sacro gives it to Bjarni
23:09:04  <flaske> Whenever you start a game, you choose from a series of predesigned maps with an objective to complete
23:09:41  <flaske> I love open ended games, but sometimes it's fun to try a hard mission too.
23:10:04  <flaske> I thought it might be interesting to introduce some of that gameplay to TT.
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23:11:11  <Bjarni> I remember the scenarios in Railroad Tycoon II where you had to do some stuff before a certain date
23:11:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i never really managed those...
23:11:44  <Bjarni> on one map you had to move X cargo from A to B (you should build the line first) and you had 15 years or so
23:12:05  <Bjarni> When the time ran out my train was 2 tiles away from the destination :(
23:12:07  <flaske> exactly. I was going for some of that, only I was hoping to do it a little more interesting
23:12:27  <flaske> and i think the power of the OpenTTD can make for some cool missions.
23:12:48  <flaske> hehe Hope i can make it a little more fun
23:12:49  <Eddi|zuHause> but "missions" should not only be predefined and final, random missions on random maps like an extension of subsidies might challenge much more people
23:13:02  <Bjarni> because it was a close call I had set the train to pull max, meaning it was driving constantly in the red area of the "load indicator"
23:13:06  <Bjarni> still not enough
23:13:13  <flaske> hehe
23:14:28  <flaske> well, how about this. a mountainous landscape, small towns spread all over. the mission is to connect them ALL to a single rail network, making a stop in each town. and making money off it
23:15:00  <Bjarni> making a stop in each town <-- in the same order list?
23:15:12  <Eddi|zuHause> transport mission: CASTOR transport. Transport a wagonload of nuclear waste from A to B without harming any protesters
23:15:14  <flaske> yeah, like a real communal train service
23:15:32  <flaske> hehe or that Eddi|zuHause
23:16:17  <Bjarni> real commuter train services sometimes force people to change line but all stations still have rail connection even though they haven't got a direct service
23:16:58  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: I read about a protester who died. He changed himself to the track so he couldn't move when the train arrived
23:17:22  <Bjarni> and the driver though "he will move" since he didn't see the handcuffs
23:17:31  <Bjarni> or something like that
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23:18:49  <Eddi|zuHause> night...
23:19:00  *** Roujin_ is now known as Roujin
23:19:42  <flaske> g'night dude
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23:44:13  <flaske> g'night dude
23:44:31  <flaske> would you like camel case for variables too? not only functions?
23:45:11  <flaske> like "CounterVariable"? i kinda like "counterVariable" with lowercase start
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