Log for #openttd on 25th August 2008:
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00:34:57  <Yeggstry> hi there
00:35:04  <Yeggstry> I have a question if anyone is around
00:35:23  <Yeggstry> is it possible to play as a certain company on a multiplayer save game that I have saved?
00:35:38  <Yeggstry> i.e. I wasn't the host, and I want to play as my company to try a few things
00:35:45  <FauxFaux> Start the server, connect, click the company..?
00:36:19  <Yeggstry> i always join as the host company tho
00:36:25  <Yeggstry> I want to join as another company
00:38:13  <FauxFaux> Use another client!
00:56:46  <Yeggstry> oh
00:56:48  <Yeggstry> true :p
00:57:30  <glx> you can also load it in single player and use cheat menu to change company
01:08:59  <Yeggstry> where is the cheat menu again?
01:11:28  <Yeggstry> ah yes, got it
01:11:29  <Yeggstry> thanks :)
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06:14:05  <Celestar> hi
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06:29:16  <celtic_cross> Hello. I've been trying latest cargodest patch, windows build from a post on tt-forums. And I always get same assert with same game. Who should i report it to?
06:31:16  <Celestar> me
06:31:18  <Celestar> (=
06:33:40  <Celestar> can you post me the savegame somewhere?
06:35:21  <celtic_cross> It's openttd coop 109 game. I get assert this way - I load it with all 4 dest options turned to "chosen destinations" and it seems to run ok. If i turn off them all - still runs ok. But the moment i turn pax dest back on - assert.
06:35:33  <Celestar> k
06:35:35  <Celestar> where is that game?
06:35:41  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14164 /trunk/src/ (ini.cpp ini_type.h settings.cpp):
06:35:41  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Codechange: simplify and unify the addition of ini items with value when not loading an ini file.
06:35:41  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix: wrong insertion management causing leaks.
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06:36:07  <celtic_cross>
06:36:16  <Celestar> thanks
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06:37:57  <Celestar> got same assert
06:37:59  <Celestar> fixing (=
06:38:15  <Tim> Good morning!
06:38:57  <Noldo> morning
06:39:55  <Celestar> morning!
06:40:57  <Tim> How's it going? :)
06:42:03  <Noldo> wasting time mostly
06:42:35  <Celestar> hm..
06:42:44  <Celestar> wondering why some cargo wants to go from A to A (=
06:43:34  <Noldo> it doesn't know it's already there
06:44:40  <Celestar> yeah, because it happens when you activate cargodest
06:45:13  <Tim> It just feels like seing some of the landscape
07:03:56  <Celestar> peter1138: are you around?
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07:59:18  <Celestar> why is it so quiet here (=
08:00:12  <Forked> monday morning
08:00:18  <Forked> there just is not enough coffee in the world
08:00:27  <Forked> but tonight I shall play with cargodest! wooh.
08:01:16  <Celestar> :D
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08:01:22  <Celestar> it's still not completely finished :(
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08:04:02  <Rubidium> and you said it would've been a few days of work ;)
08:07:42  <Celestar> Rubidium: well, the basic system was a few days of work (=
08:07:48  <Celestar> Rubidium: now comes the fine-tuning (=
08:08:10  <Noldo> the last 20% of features ans 80% of work?
08:08:29  <Celestar> Noldo: mor 10%/90%
08:08:32  <Celestar> more*
08:08:36  <Celestar> or 5%/95% even :P
08:08:56  <Rubidium> and it isn't even the group of "last features" as those are already delayed
08:09:05  <Rubidium> (or should I say deferred?)
08:11:02  <Celestar> er .. never planned in the first place
08:12:12  <Celestar> plus I want this done right at the first shot
08:12:22  <Celestar> and right from a feature, coding and performance point of view (=
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08:22:22  <Forked> meep meep
08:22:23  <Forked> coffee! brb
08:23:27  <peter1138> We should switch to freenode, that never splits!
08:23:35  <Celestar> hey peter1138 (=
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08:29:00  <Celestar> peter1138: I could use some help
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08:31:24  <Celestar> peter1138: because my cargolist code causes segfaults in the saveload :P
08:34:46  <peter1138> Er..
08:35:12  <Celestar> but then, cargolists are not saved ..
08:35:48  <Celestar> and it segfaults in the saveload code.
08:36:06  <Celestar> in the vehicle-saveload code. but I'm not changing the vehicle class ...
08:39:24  <peter1138> How to reproduce?
08:39:45  <Celestar> I'll give you my diff
08:39:55  <Celestar> it's alphaish and incomplete, but it shows you the idea
08:40:04  <Celestar>
08:40:15  * Celestar wishes his week wouldn't be as busy :S
08:40:39  <Celestar> peter1138: btw I like the idea about the intermediate orders on the forums
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08:42:59  <peter1138> Cool ;)
08:43:06  <peter1138> Btw, you've still go StationID index.
08:43:09  <peter1138> *got
08:44:14  <Celestar> yeah
08:44:17  <Celestar> I haven't done much
08:44:19  <peter1138> That might not help.
08:44:32  <Celestar> I've the final report of my research project coming up
08:44:45  <Celestar> so I'll have to shove some cargodest workload your way the next 2 weeks :P
08:44:58  <peter1138> Hmm, no, I'm mixing up CargoList with CargoPacket, he
08:45:43  <Celestar> I do that regularly :P
08:46:19  <Rubidium> Celestar: could you make your webserver tell the browsers that diffs are text files?
08:46:48  <Celestar> Rubidium: how do I do so?
08:47:03  <Celestar> I don't have much idea about mimetypes in apache
08:47:49  <Rubidium> modify /etc/mime.types?
08:48:40  <Celestar> looking
08:49:09  <Celestar> Rubidium: text/x-patch diff patch
08:49:30  <Rubidium> move the 'diff patch' to text/plain
08:52:37  <Celestar> better now?
08:53:46  <Celestar> peter1138: we could handle "unconditional" conditional order couldn't we?
08:55:24  <Rubidium> nah, still wants to download it
08:55:30  <Rubidium> have you reloaded your webserver?
08:55:45  <Celestar> peter1138: at A I have passengers wishing to go to D by using A->B->C->D. What should happen if a route from A->D is no longer found? Drop the cargo?
08:55:48  <Celestar> Rubidium: yes
08:56:10  <Rubidium> still says text/x-patch :(
08:57:25  <Celestar> weird
08:57:30  <Celestar> maybe it uses another file?
08:58:06  <peter1138> wget
08:58:08  <peter1138> Length: 13,492 (13K) [text/plain]
08:58:13  <Celestar> peter1138: I could also reroute ..
08:58:26  <peter1138> Your browser has probably cached it...
08:58:29  <Celestar> Rubidium: apparently your browser cached it
08:58:33  <Celestar> heh @ peter1138
08:58:34  <Rubidium> my wget says the same
08:58:47  <Rubidium> as my browser says
08:58:51  <Rubidium> i.e. text/x-patch
08:58:57  <Rubidium> so my ISP has some cache?
08:59:04  <peter1138> Could do.
08:59:13  <Forked> Length: 13,492 (13K) [text/plain]
08:59:27  <peter1138> Celestar, rename the patch ;)
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08:59:42  <Celestar> peter1138: or I could leave the packets there and user to sort out a route for the passengers (=
09:00:02  <peter1138> I don't know, I've not figured out how to even use them yet...
09:00:08  <Celestar> Rubidium:
09:00:16  <Celestar> peter1138: er use what? :P
09:00:21  <Rubidium> yay ;) that works
09:00:27  <peter1138> Conditional orders.
09:01:42  <Celestar> peter1138: heh. ok
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09:16:05  <Celestar> peter1138: RFC:
09:18:21  <peter1138> Clever.
09:18:33  <Celestar> better than "via anywhere" isn't it?
09:21:06  <blathijs> Is there any way to gracefully handle the removal of a route?
09:21:07  <peter1138> Yeah, it explains the problem :)
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09:21:32  <blathijs> Ie, mark a train as deprecated, meaning that it will continue driving only for as long as there are passengers that need it?
09:21:43  <Celestar> blathijs: not yet (=
09:22:16  <blathijs> So currently, you'll just end up with those "no route" passengers (which disappear after a timeout or so?)
09:22:52  <Celestar> or the station is removed
09:23:10  <Forked> make it a news thing.. "passengers angry after <company> shuts down route between X and Y"
09:23:29  <Celestar> hehehe
09:23:34  <Celestar> you volunteering? (=
09:23:47  <Forked> I can be angry passenger #48
09:24:19  <Prof_Frink> Celestar: "1 passengers"?
09:24:42  <Celestar> Prof_Frink: that's no cargodest thingy
09:24:57  <Celestar> that's somewhere else
09:25:09  <Celestar> haven't found it yet
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09:34:17  <Celestar> so peter1138, I'll be mostly out of the loop for a fortnight, maybe a bit more. You've got to stand ground at cargodest on your own :P
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09:48:56  <peter1138> Gah, I keep getting thrown out of SDL's fullscreen ;(
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10:04:02  <peter1138> Hmm, did a replace and my route vanished :o
10:04:56  <Celestar> uh oh
10:09:30  <Celestar> "rn rr" :P
10:09:33  <Celestar> and a debug :P
10:13:13  <Celestar> TTRS is INSANE
10:14:27  <Noldo> :)
10:15:18  <Celestar> my passengers are reproducing like rabbits
10:15:51  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not cool when the passengers waiting at a station exceed the town's population...
10:15:54  <Forked> humpdidumpti..
10:18:02  <peter1138> Yeah... I still don't know if that a bug in our newhouses handing, or ttrs...
10:22:00  <Celestar> dunno
10:26:08  <Celestar>
10:26:31  <Celestar> all of these stations are FULL
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10:26:51  <Celestar> I'm off to get some work done
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10:29:22  <Ammler> did someone play with NACities and cargodest?
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10:58:51  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14165 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: When over-building rail with a different type, don't convert the rail if the engines of the new type are powered on the existing type.
11:02:54  <peter1138> Gah, silly ROADTYPE_HWAY :p
11:03:11  <Noldo> kthxbye
11:06:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't know why that was even introduced :)
11:12:35  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: if you have long straight roads with many different road vehicle speeds, it helps to have better chances for overtaking...
11:13:07  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it was never implemented...
11:13:30  <Ammler> oh, you don't mean Oneway roads?
11:14:11  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean the 3rd road type
11:34:10  <celtic_cross> Atm I'm playing a cargodest game and one of the stations inhibits strange behavior. I've got a small bus route inside a town (3 busses and 3 stations, also served by trams, not connected to railway) and a tram network (9 stations, connected to railway). One of the stations with both busses and trams have about 1k passengers, wanting to go through railway station, but they won't use trams unless i delete my bus route. Is this a
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11:36:23  <Noldo> celtic_cross: Is this a....
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11:38:47  <celtic_cross> ?
11:38:51  <celtic_cross> ?
11:40:44  <Progman> you didn't finished your sentence ;)
11:41:02  <celtic_cross> Oh.
11:41:07  <celtic_cross> Is this a bug or something i don't understand? Reloading game doesn't help.
11:41:55  <Progman> they use only one way although there may be more routes to reach the target
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11:46:57  <celtic_cross> The only way to get to railway is to use trams atm. However, i think i had that particular bus route connected to railway before, but deleted bus stop... Still, only one station of the 3 served by busses behaves this way.
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11:49:12  <Noldo> Tell "The Team" ie. celestar and peter1138 about it
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11:53:39  <Celestar> hey
11:54:50  <SpComb> Logs:
11:54:50  <Noldo> !logs
11:55:40  <Noldo> Celestar: celtic_cross had another problem
11:56:50  <Celestar> he had?
11:56:53  <Celestar> looking
11:58:56  <Celestar> celtic_cross: you got a savegame of that?
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12:01:17  <Ammler> what is that penalty for? rail_doubleslip_penalty
12:01:39  <Eddi|zuHause> for when two switches are on one tile, i think
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12:09:47  <celtic_cross> Celestar, yes i do. Alhough, i think i got it - bus route acts as a shortcut for a longer tram route and everyone wants to use the shorter one. Even though it is really underserved.
12:10:11  <FauxFaux> Mmm, why does the second line on the Vehicles' patches, forbid 90°, say that it requires NPF, even though it works fine with (we love) YAPF?
12:10:35  <Noldo> FauxFaux: it's old stuff, predates yapf
12:11:25  <FauxFaux> Basically, the message is wrong? :)
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12:11:47  <Forked> it's outdated
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12:13:10  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: like that?
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12:13:53  <Celestar> celtic_cross: yeah. No way around that at the moment. sorry (=
12:14:29  <Ammler> Celestar: mesure the waiting time?
12:15:02  <Ammler> should be somehow possible as it is also needed for the paying...
12:16:10  <Celestar> Ammler: the pathfinder returns zero or one route from A to B.
12:16:17  <Celestar> the system doesn't see any other routes
12:17:25  <Ammler> I was commenting to celtic_cross
12:17:53  <Ammler> you have 2 routes there tram (overserved, fast) and bus (underserved, slow)
12:18:01  <Celestar> only way would be to maybe change the edge weights when there is excessive cargo waiting, maybe on a One-Station-Per-Tick basis
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12:18:28  <fjb> Hello
12:19:00  <Celestar> but that will cause the route network to be re-path-found every tick, and we hit performance issues
12:19:26  <blathijs> FauxFaux: I think the message should say "Doesn't work with OPF"
12:19:53  <Ammler> couldn't you just give penalties to routes, which have long waiting times?
12:20:08  <Celestar> Ammler: the question is: how often
12:20:21  <Ammler> you do that at same time, when it get paid...
12:20:23  <FauxFaux> blathijs: That took me a while to work out, and I kind of know what I'm talking about. ¬_¬
12:20:54  <Celestar> Ammler: giving a penalty to a route causes the WHOLE routing cache go invalid. This cannot happen more often than a handful of times per month.
12:21:12  <Ammler> hmm
12:21:20  <Celestar> which is ok.
12:21:50  <blathijs> FauxFaux: The problem is that OPF doesn't store the direction you're coming from, so you can't tell if a turn wil be 90 degree
12:22:16  <FauxFaux> I understand the problem, I mean that that's not a clear message either.
12:22:19  <blathijs> FauxFaux: NPF (and I presume YAPF) do store this (ie, they include the angle in the state)
12:22:21  <Celestar> Ammler: the entire reason for the routing system to basically have no impact on performance is that we don't modify its parameters left and right ;)
12:23:46  <Celestar> celtic_cross: show me your savegame please
12:25:49  <Ammler> Celestar: maybe you could fill a intermediate penalty list until you rebuild the routing cache...
12:26:03  <celtic_cross> Sending via dcc.
12:26:42  <Ammler> it is something, which doesn't change ofteh and don't need to react that fast
12:27:42  <blathijs> Celestar: Currently passengers always pick a specific route? Or only transfer stations?
12:27:56  <celtic_cross> What about manually defining routes from a to b, which would override automatically defined? As in, which network to use to get from a to b. After which it is up to user to provide valid service of route.
12:28:47  <Ammler> celtic_cross: the idea of pax/cargo dest is to have that automatically
12:28:59  <Ammler> else you have the current system...
12:29:12  <Noldo> Ammler: I disagree
12:29:27  <Ammler> :-)
12:29:34  <Ammler> ...
12:29:36  <Noldo> Ammler: the idea of destinations is that there are destinations
12:29:39  <Noldo> :)
12:29:58  <Ammler> if you define the routes self, what is the difference to now?
12:30:04  <Celestar> blathijs: cargo picks specific transfer stations
12:30:30  <Noldo> Ammler: now you can drop the cargo off where ever you want
12:30:32  <Celestar> celtic_cross: I've thought about something like manual override. dunno what Rubidium and peter1138 think about it
12:31:20  <Celestar> celtic_cross: if you could show me your savegame it could have a look (=
12:31:33  <celtic_cross> Can you receive dcc transfers?
12:31:59  <Celestar> possibly, try it
12:32:30  <Ammler> so you define orders and then routes?
12:32:41  <Celestar> Ammler: you define orders, they define routes
12:32:49  <celtic_cross> Apart from ottdcoop package, it uses russian trams set. Do you have it?
12:32:58  <Ammler> but if you like to do that manually?
12:33:18  <Celestar> Ammler: but we could add conditionals to the orders (don't transport cargo from A to C) or something
12:33:43  <Ammler> or just a penalty
12:33:49  <Ammler> so you would still have some
12:33:59  <Celestar> there is no some
12:34:04  <Celestar> it's all-or-nothing
12:34:10  <Ammler> :-)
12:34:59  <Celestar> you guys make this difficult (-;
12:35:00  <Ammler> the condition to not work as a transfer line, would help
12:35:16  <Celestar> Ammler: heh. that actually would be implemented with 5 or 10 lines (=
12:35:38  <Ammler> I guess, that would be the easiest solution
12:35:42  <Ammler> also for gameplay
12:35:56  <Celestar> er wait ..
12:36:09  <Celestar> plus 15 lines and somehow telling the pathfinder what to do
12:36:09  <Ammler> but for later version, someone would like to define routes :-)
12:36:24  <Ammler> with timetables :P
12:36:53  <Ammler> arrive at 03 depart on plattform 4 at 07 :-)
12:37:01  <Celestar> yey!
12:37:10  <Celestar> celtic_cross: ok what town/stations are we talking about?
12:37:29  <celtic_cross> micromanagement ftw :)
12:37:32  <celtic_cross> Pintonn west
12:37:49  <celtic_cross> err, Pinnton
12:37:57  <Celestar> yeah
12:38:21  <Celestar> I don't see any buses from there
12:38:45  <celtic_cross> Err, there should be 3.
12:39:09  <Celestar> hm
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12:39:38  <Celestar> heh ok. it doesn't work without the rtset
12:40:10  <Celestar> what exactly is tourw.grf?
12:40:28  <celtic_cross> Russian trams set with tourist for ecs.
12:40:40  <Celestar> where to get that one?
12:40:55  <celtic_cross>
12:41:13  <Celestar> that's russina
12:41:16  <Celestar> russian*
12:41:37  <Celestar> please DCC me russianw.grf and tourw.grf
12:41:42  <celtic_cross> That's a link from grfcawler.
12:42:06  <Ammler> russian trams?
12:42:12  <Ammler> from coyote?
12:42:38  <celtic_cross> I think yes.
12:42:58  <Ammler> there are still GRFs not in our pack ;-)
12:43:00  <celtic_cross> Wile E. Coyote mentioned in credits.
12:43:25  <Celestar> celtic_cross: ok .. everything goes via Central, right?
12:43:28  <celtic_cross> Those trams have names in ciryllic
12:44:01  <celtic_cross> I guess yes, due to buss route. But should go straight to railway station via trams.
12:44:57  <Celestar> yeah, but the trams don't go "straight" to the railway station.
12:44:58  *** Dred_furst [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:45:01  <Celestar> they take a huge detour
12:46:25  <Celestar> which basically is your problem there (=
12:46:49  <celtic_cross> Well, i'm not a simple pathfinder, it doesn't looks huge to me, since bus route is underserved.
12:47:34  <Celestar> unfortunately, I currently see hardly any way around it
12:47:35  <blathijs> FauxFaux: I fixed the message
12:47:42  <Celestar> or make a direct tram (=
12:47:54  <FauxFaux> blathijs: Woo, thanks. :)
12:48:26  <celtic_cross> Looks like the only solution.
12:50:47  <Celestar> celtic_cross: or direct buses
12:50:59  <Celestar> celtic_cross: sorry (=
12:51:22  <blathijs> Sounds like you want to allow multiple routes or something? Or include the utilisation of a particular vehicle/route in the cost?
12:51:32  <blathijs> all kindof icky
12:52:00  <celtic_cross> Actually, I thought it was that way. That's why i was surprised.
12:52:11  <Celestar> blathijs: see above. I can include the utilization, but I can only change that RARELY (meaning a handful times per month)
12:52:26  <blathijs> Celestar: Yeah, but that could be enough
12:52:32  <Celestar> blathijs: it could indeed (=
12:53:04  <blathijs> Celestar: The problem is, how do you measure utilisation? If you use the current utilisation, you would get a hysteresis effect I guess
12:53:34  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: matthijs * r14166 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Doc: Change "forbid 90 degree turn" patch option description to say "not with NTP" instead of "requires NPF" (which has been untrue since the introduction of YAPF). Thanks to FauxFaux for pointing this out.
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12:56:21  <Celestar> blathijs: it will take LONG to adjust to an underserved route
12:57:03  <blathijs> The problem is that you actually don't want to include penalties, but include bonusses
12:57:11  <blathijs> ie, just add a bonus for the route's capacity
12:57:25  <Celestar> then an edge's cost can drop below 0
12:57:42  <Celestar> dunno if dijkstra likes that
12:58:56  <blathijs> Nope, it doesn't. At least A* doesn't :-)
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12:59:25  <blathijs> Perhaps Dijkstra can be made to work with it, if you just cap the cost at 0
12:59:34  <Ammler> blathijs: TTDP non-stop behavier is also bad described...
13:00:08  <blathijs> Celestar: You could also make a penalty, that is the maximum capacity of all routes, minus the capacity of this route :-)
13:00:24  <blathijs> But that's iffy
13:01:19  <blathijs> Ammler: Suggestions for a better description?
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13:03:01  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: made once a nice
13:03:42  <blathijs> Celestar: In the end, you want the cost of an edge in the routing network to represent the expected time to use that edge
13:03:48  <blathijs> Celestar: Ie, waiting time + travel time
13:04:10  <blathijs> Celestar: Currently, I think that the (base) cost is travel time only? Or are there other factors used?
13:05:40  <celtic_cross> Adding more micromanagement to routes is not an option?
13:06:49  <Celestar> blathijs: DistanceManhattan * vehicle_factor (=
13:06:54  <Progman> I guess its on the TODO list but it must be choosen with care
13:07:02  <Celestar> celtic_cross: not at the current state
13:07:51  <Celestar> later, sure
13:08:48  *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
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13:13:11  <celtic_cross> What vehicle_factor stands for?
13:14:33  <Celestar> 1 for aircraft, 2 for trains, 3 for road vehicles and 4 for ships
13:14:43  <Celestar> I have an unfinished diff that makes them configurable
13:15:15  <peter1138> And when caching stuff, remember you can only cache stuff that can be recalculated exactly, on load.
13:15:36  <peter1138> So periodic updates are out.
13:15:56  <celtic_cross> That means different vehicles of the same network type would all be used, right?
13:19:30  <celtic_cross> I thought routing was quite sophisticated, since it wasn't posted on wiki right away. :)
13:23:16  <blathijs> Celestar: But multiple vehicles produce multiple edges in the routing graph?
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13:23:40  <Celestar> blathijs: only if their orders aren't shared
13:24:21  <blathijs> And then when dijkstra'ing through the routing graph, multiple edges are ignored (ie, only the lowest-cost is used, I guess?)
13:24:42  <blathijs> (It seems quite arbitrary to treat shared orders different to identical orders, actually, btw)
13:26:06  <Celestar> blathijs: it reduces memory usage
13:26:14  <Celestar> it makes no difference otherwise
13:26:19  <peter1138> Hmm, my NewGRF config is busted... some problem with ini-saving?
13:27:54  <Ammler> peter1138: r14153 or so
13:29:58  <Celestar> blathijs: but you're right, only the lowest-cost is used
13:31:36  <peter1138> Identical orders are not identical... ;o
13:33:14  *** welshdra-gone is now known as welshdragon
13:36:24  * SpComb yawns
13:37:02  * TrueBrain spits while SpComb yawns :p
13:37:05  <TrueBrain> oeh, that is nasty :p
13:37:07  <Belugas> hello all
13:37:19  <Forked> greetings, sir and/or ma'am
13:38:12  <TrueBrain> he is a sir
13:38:47  <Forked> my greetings are internet proof
13:38:50  <Forked> (and future proof)
13:39:08  <TrueBrain> well, I think it is safe to say there are 97 males in this channel
13:39:16  <TrueBrain> of 1 person I am not sure (I won't call your  name yorick)
13:39:21  *** Mortal [] has joined #openttd
13:39:22  <Forked> hehe
13:39:28  <Forked> no bots/clones?
13:39:33  <TrueBrain> bots are male to :p
13:39:42  <Forked> ..oki
13:39:48  *** Kommer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:39:55  <TrueBrain> @kick DorpsGek
13:39:55  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: I cowardly refuse to kick myself.
13:40:02  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:40:08  <yorick> TrueBrain: I am quite sure I am male...
13:40:12  <yorick> @kick TrueBrain
13:40:13  <TrueBrain> pfew :)
13:40:55  <Sacro> @kick Bj...
13:40:55  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Error: Bj... is not in #openttd.
13:40:57  <Sacro> aww :(
13:41:08  <Sacro> @kick yorick
13:41:13  *** Fuco [] has joined #openttd
13:41:21  <TrueBrain> lol, funny that he FIRST checks for the name, than if you are allowed...
13:41:23  <TrueBrain> weird bot
13:41:27  <yorick> :)
13:41:32  <yorick> gofix!
13:41:43  <Gekz> Nice.
13:41:44  <TrueBrain> why?
13:41:46  <Prof_Frink> @kick me
13:41:46  <DorpsGek> Prof_Frink: Error: me is not in #openttd.
13:41:47  <TrueBrain> I have enough to do :p
13:41:48  <Gekz> @kick noone
13:41:48  <DorpsGek> Gekz: Error: noone is not in #openttd.
13:41:51  <Gekz> @kick yorick
13:41:53  <TrueBrain> @kick Prof_Frinkokay
13:41:53  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: Prof_Frinkokay is not in #openttd.
13:41:54  <Prof_Frink> !password
13:41:55  *** Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
13:41:55  <Gekz> :<
13:41:58  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
13:42:00  <Gekz> PWNED
13:42:02  <Gekz> HAHA
13:42:06  <Prof_Frink> :p
13:42:09  *** Fuco [] has quit []
13:42:22  <yorick> poef!
13:42:31  <Prof_Frink> Yes, Sacro is.
13:42:53  <blathijs> Celestar: If you only use the lowest cost, than indeed it won't make a difference to treat shared orders differently from identical orders (though, hypothetically, would it be possible to share orders between different vehicle types?)
13:43:42  *** Fuco [] has joined #openttd
13:43:48  <TrueBrain> welcome back Fuco
13:43:55  <blathijs> Celestar: But then, for consistency, it might be better to never have multiple edges between nodes, or at least not when their costs would be identical (so, their vehicle type is identical)
13:44:35  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
13:44:42  <TrueBrain> wb GoneWacko
13:45:00  <Fuco> hi :)
13:45:17  <yorick> TrueBrain: you migt add 'k' somewhere
13:45:42  <blathijs> Celestar: But, as far as I can see, the problem is that cargo always takes a single route between two stations, even if multiple routes are available?
13:46:11  <blathijs> Celestar: Which is the shortest route, which is perfectly fine as long as the cargo produced does not exceed the capacity of that route
13:46:54  <TrueBrain> yorick: rankdom?
13:47:03  <blathijs> Celestar: But if the produced cargo exceeds the capacity of the shortest route, you want the cargo to take the next longer route (if that route does have sufficient capacity)
13:47:18  <yorick> TrueBrain: @echo $randomNick
13:48:52  <blathijs> Celestar: ideally, you would want to split the cargo, filling up all routes from the shortest upwards.
13:49:07  *** yorick [] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
13:49:08  <blathijs> Celestar: But I think that's really a lot of extra complexity
13:49:12  <blathijs> havin fffasldfkjsdaf/win 22
13:49:16  <blathijs> woops
13:49:28  <blathijs> My internet connection recovered :-)
13:50:02  *** yorick [] has joined #openttd
13:50:19  <Gekz>
13:50:26  *** Kommer [] has joined #openttd
13:51:09  <blathijs> Celestar: And that would be realistic for cargo, but passengers might have different heuristics to determine their route (at least in reality)
13:53:11  *** Zahl_ [] has joined #openttd
13:53:33  <Celestar> reading back
13:54:11  <blathijs> Celestar: The main problem is that which route to take depends heavily on the produced cargo and the capacity of a route
13:54:26  <Celestar> blathijs: it IS a lot of extra complexity and imho not something for the first shot at cargodest
13:54:27  <blathijs> where the first one can change frequently, and the second is non-trivial to determine
13:54:58  <blathijs> Celestar: I'm just brainstorming in general, not suggesting you implement stuff directly :-)
13:55:45  <Celestar> :P
13:57:27  <Celestar> blathijs: imho the user should optimize his routes. not the routes optimize themselves
13:57:54  <Celestar> that's something for the AI to do ^^
13:58:41  <blathijs> Celestar: Yeah, so it's probably better to give the users extra tools to instruct the routing system
13:58:56  <blathijs> Celestar: Perhaps signifying stations as transfer/non-transfer would help?
13:59:47  <blathijs> Though that's probably way too limited
14:00:32  *** Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:00:32  *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
14:01:16  * peter1138 has a problem with express routes.
14:02:09  <Celestar> peter1138: why?
14:04:30  <peter1138> Same problem. They take all the long distance cargo even if it's over capacity.
14:04:54  <Celestar> heh (=
14:05:12  <Celestar> I'm off for a bit, we can resume discussing later
14:06:01  <blathijs> :-)
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14:20:44  <Celestar> blathijs: maybe you can look through the code a bit if you have ideas. it's all in routing.*
14:22:15  <peter1138> Problem I see with spreading cargo over routes is you need to keep some state, then.
14:22:42  <Celestar> peter1138: I quite agree
14:22:59  <Celestar> peter1138: we could have 3 routing networks with different edge weights :P
14:23:11  <Celestar> and select one :P
14:24:07  <blathijs> peter1138: If you just do routing based on a chances, you would get away without state I think?
14:24:49  <blathijs> Though that could mean that a train leaves behind cargo because randomness says it wants to take another route :-)
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14:28:53  <Celestar> peter1138: just "penalize" only transfers, not transits (stopovers without vehicle change)
14:32:39  <Celestar> for that we'd "just" need to save subsequent edges or something
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14:37:14  <celtic_cross> Is there a way to sort output of rn lv alphabetically?
14:38:17  <blathijs> What's an rn lv?
14:39:22  <celtic_cross> It lists stations in routing network
14:39:43  <glx> blathijs: console command
14:39:49  *** ddraigbot is now known as welshdragon
14:40:36  <blathijs> ah, right :-)
14:40:58  <Celestar> celtic_cross: just filter it
14:41:40  <celtic_cross> Just did it, took me some time to notice filter option :(
14:42:00  <Belugas> question for all who would like to comment:  Would you like the hability to repay your loan (based on your owning, of course) automically once a month, once every 6 months, once a year?
14:42:06  <Belugas> personnaly, i think it wiollbe a mess
14:42:30  <Belugas> just like... borrow, and oupss... end of month, all has been taken back by the bank :S
14:42:54  <Belugas> silly, but someone asked for it.  so... good idea, or bad?
14:43:10  <Belugas> of course, setting will only apply to the player who wants it
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14:47:19  <peter1138> Nope.
14:48:51  <planetmaker> not really needed
14:49:45  <Forked> lazy people can repay themself.. If anything you could have a 20 year where you just pay the rent, but then you have to start paying down X % every month/year
14:50:49  <TrueBrain> Belugas: bad idea :)
14:54:15  <Belugas> perfect, i think you are all thinking like me :)
14:55:38  <Celestar> aye!
14:55:53  <Belugas> on that matter :P
14:56:32  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: A "You have half a billion quid, do you really want to be paying interest on that £100k loan?" warning would be nice.
15:12:26  <peter1138> Wasn't that George's request? heh
15:12:26  <Belugas> yes it was, peter1138
15:12:26  <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: it is like you expect your bank to knock on your door, telling you you have enough money to repay your loan .. is not going to happen I think :p
15:12:26  <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: no, the player should be fined heavily for it
15:12:26  <Belugas> Prof_Frink, i think warnings are not really fun in game.
15:12:26  <peter1138> The loan behaves more like an overdraft than a loan.
15:12:26  <Belugas> indeed
15:12:26  <peter1138> T
15:12:26  <peter1138> Rubidium, is this NewGRF settings bug yours? :D
15:12:26  <Rubidium> not that I know of
15:12:26  <Rubidium> but I'll gladly reassign it to you if you like to
15:12:28  *** SpComb [] has joined #openttd
15:15:55  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14167 /trunk/src/ (ini.cpp ini_type.h settings.cpp): -Fix: items in some ini-groups got duplicated on save.
15:17:23  <Celestar> thanks Rubidium :d
15:17:24  <Celestar> :D
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15:24:54  <Celestar> <= I think that's awesome (=
15:27:03  <FauxFaux> Shame you can't see the other signal from behind.
15:27:21  <Sacro> *in front
15:27:38  <Sacro> you can see all railway signals from behind
15:27:45  <Sacro> the lights are on the back
15:27:53  <Sacro> the front points into the next block
15:27:55  * Sacro rants
15:28:55  <Celestar> <= hm .. wagons are either too short or the track too wide
15:29:08  <Celestar> <= compare :P
15:30:29  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Can we agree that the bit of the signal furthest from the ground is the "top"?
15:31:49  <TrueBrain> Celestar: gcc 4.3 gives a deprecated warning on routing.cpp (line 11)
15:31:51  <TrueBrain> just so you know :)
15:32:00  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: alright
15:32:04  <FauxFaux> Prof_Frink: Snicker.
15:32:13  <Sacro> FauxFaux: Marathon.
15:33:26  <Celestar> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
15:33:43  <Celestar> TrueBrain: I know. it's somehow a boost-stl mismatch or something
15:33:52  <Celestar> TrueBrain: nothing to do with openttd :S
15:34:02  <Celestar> only way around is -Wno-deprecated (=
15:35:11  <hylje> holy pixelation
15:35:47  <Celestar> hylje: ?
15:35:52  <peter1138> 64 pixels is enough for everyone!
15:36:14  <hylje> Celestar: highres sprites on normalres sprites
15:36:17  <Prof_Frink> Branston pixel?
15:36:35  <Celestar> hylje: yes
15:38:19  <Celestar> peter1138:  I wonder what's the next thing that needs doing on cargodest
15:38:25  <Celestar> I have an hour break
15:38:49  <Celestar> can't we make the tracks half as wide? :P
15:39:03  <Celestar> or the passenger wagons three times as long (=
15:39:51  *** fjb_ is now known as fjb
15:40:41  <fjb> The tracks are too wide compared to the trains.
15:42:09  <Celestar> yeah, by a factor of about 2.5 :P
15:42:11  <Celestar> heh
15:42:18  <hylje> count the windows
15:42:32  <Celestar> the ICE-3M carries no less than 6 pantographs
15:42:43  <Celestar> using whichever is needed for the country it runs
15:44:00  <Celestar> that's like an airplane carrying 6 types of landing, only using one at a time :P
15:45:06  <Celestar> landing gear *
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15:46:00  <Prof_Frink> pants!
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15:48:07  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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15:51:43  * fjb wishes a BR 189 for the DBset.
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16:00:23  <Celestar> fjb: is that the Eurosprinter or something?
16:00:55  <fjb> Something based on the Eurosprinter family.
16:00:58  <Celestar> heh
16:01:07  <peter1138> Celestar, the problem with longer train graphics is bends...
16:01:17  * Celestar is amazed that the Eurosprinter still has less TE than the BR103
16:01:24  <Celestar> peter1138: yeah I know ...
16:01:44  <Celestar> peter1138: I was just b!tching around (=
16:01:46  <fjb> Rubber wagons...
16:02:32  * Celestar wonders how many engines have more HP and TE than the BR103
16:02:41  <fjb> BR 103 had 6 axles, Eurosprinter has only 4.
16:03:11  <fjb> HP are not the problem, TE is with fewer axles.
16:04:01  <Celestar> yeah
16:04:15  <Celestar>
16:04:19  <Celestar> awesome
16:04:51  * Prof_Frink runs over fjb with a Super Sprinter
16:05:02  <Celestar> fjb: well, apparently the Big Boy had a TE of about twice that of the BR103
16:05:18  * fjb hunts Prof_Frink with a Super Soaker.
16:05:24  <Celestar> then again, it has 5 times the mass
16:05:31  *** yorick [] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
16:06:28  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:06:31  <fjb> Look at the diesel engines from the Canadian set. They have much TE but really suck at HP.
16:06:44  <Celestar> yeah
16:07:08  <Celestar> methinks the BR103 and BR101 are the only real allrounders
16:07:25  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14168 /trunk/src/widgets/ (dropdown.cpp dropdown_type.h): -Codechange: Make dropdown 'auto_width' a separate parameter, so that a minimum width can be specified.
16:08:16  <Celestar> heh interesting stuff on wikipedia about the BR101 vs BR103
16:08:16  <FauxFaux> What does the TE number actually mean, btw? :)
16:08:39  <DaleStan> Tractive effort.
16:08:40  <fjb> The BR 103 isn't. It has a too weak frame.
16:08:41  <Celestar> Tractive Effort. Basically the maximum force an engine can deliver
16:09:11  <peter1138> Hmm, Z scale BR103 :o
16:09:11  <Celestar> fjb: yeah a bit. but the BR101 even pulls 2000ton Trains (single engine afaik)
16:09:24  <DaleStan> The force that the engine can deliver to the train without having the wheels slip.
16:10:02  <Celestar> which, on paper, the BR103 surpasses the BR101.
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16:10:13  <fjb> The BR 101 came almost 30 years after the BR 103. The BR 120 had real problems with the light weight frame.
16:10:38  <Celestar> however, when the BR103 begins to slip, it has to reduce power overall. the BR101 can control each axle invididually
16:10:46  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14169 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: rename location_of_house for location_of_HQ, which is more exact and less subject to interpretation
16:10:56  <Celestar> fjb: the BR120 was THE predecessor to all modern high-speed trains.
16:11:01  <fjb> peter1138: Look at the train sets with animated staem engines. That really looks like Z scale.
16:11:41  <Celestar> the BR120 was the first commercially used rotary-current engine
16:12:24  <fjb> The BR 120 was a bit too experimental. They shouldn't have experimented with a light frame that much.
16:12:28  <Celestar> fjb: funnily enough, the BR101 is still one ton lighter than the BR120
16:12:45  <Celestar> but trains are heavy as crap anyway
16:13:15  <fjb> Don't let e train go over your foot.
16:13:29  <Celestar> funny how the Big Boys were meant to pull trains at slopes up to like 1.5%
16:13:50  * peter1138 only dreams of electric locomotives...
16:13:59  <peter1138> (I hate DMUs :o)
16:14:14  <Celestar> and the ICE3 goes 4% on FRA-CGN.
16:14:29  <Celestar> with 300km/h (could do more)
16:15:03  <Sacro> sigh
16:15:08  * Sacro revises the shunting yard algorithm
16:15:50  <Celestar> <= heh
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16:16:05  <Celestar> that's about as many wheels as an AGV has :P
16:16:53  <Celestar> no.
16:17:01  <Celestar> it's MORE wheels than an 11-car AGV has :P
16:18:00  <fjb> peter1138: Don't play with any nothern american train set. :-)
16:19:00  <peter1138> Hmm, there was some guy on here once who though all DMUs were actually DEMUs... can't remember who though.
16:19:19  <fjb> Celestar:
16:20:08  <Celestar> DEMU?
16:20:26  <fjb> Many people don't belive that hydraulic gets actually used in trains.
16:20:27  <Celestar> fjb: what about it?
16:20:33  <peter1138> diesel electric...
16:20:41  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14170 /trunk/src/road_type.h: -Codechange: Missing enum for road type iteration.
16:20:46  <Sacro> fjb: they are aren't they? :o
16:20:56  <Sacro> i thought they used the engine to generate electric
16:20:58  <fjb> Celestar: that one has also a lot of axles and all are powerd.
16:21:02  <Sacro> which then powers motors
16:21:06  <Celestar> fjb: yeah
16:21:07  <peter1138> ...
16:21:26  <Celestar> peter1138: most Diesel engines for passenger transport are diesel-electric from what I know
16:21:43  <Celestar> at least in any country with serious railways services (=
16:22:19  <peter1138> Tell that to my local railway :p
16:22:26  <fjb> Most German diesels use hydraulic.
16:22:35  <peter1138> Which is owned by DB...
16:22:41  <fjb> :-)
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16:22:46  <Celestar> fjb: ?
16:23:47  <peter1138> Sacro, class 1xx are DMU, class 2xx are DEMU... but you knew that.
16:23:58  <Sacro> did i?
16:23:59  <Sacro> oh yes
16:24:03  <Sacro> and 3xx is EMU
16:24:26  <fjb> Diesel electric engines are new to German railways. All older designs and many of the new designs are diesel hydraulic.
16:25:13  <peter1138> Heh, BR class 201, made in 1957...
16:25:22  <fjb> Diesel electric is heavily used in nothern america.
16:25:25  <peter1138> And pretty ugly :D
16:26:11  <fjb> Many of the british designs are looking a bit strange wehn you are not british... :-)
16:26:45  <Sacro> peter1138: tis... rustic
16:27:01  <Celestar> mesa no liken diesel engines
16:27:56  <peter1138> The only electric on my local line is the 3rd & 4th rail starting further down.
16:28:06  <Sacro> yeah
16:28:13  <Sacro> nearest electric from here is ECML
16:28:33  <Celestar> In two years, Munich will get its FIRST high-speed railway connecting (>200km/h)
16:28:39  <Celestar> connection*
16:28:48  <peter1138> And those Metropolitan line trains are not particularly exciting.
16:29:18  <peter1138> I blame the stupid metro system for reaching so far...
16:29:43  <peter1138> Classic case of shared infrastructure patches...
16:30:06  <hylje> jej
16:30:30  <hylje> un-spanish that
16:30:49  <Celestar> unwhat?
16:30:54  <hylje> heh*
16:31:14  <peter1138> Actually the London 'underground' used to reach past here, but I guess 60 miles out of town is a bit silly for a metro.
16:31:32  <hylje> not really
16:31:39  * Celestar wonders whether the AGV can go Franfurt-Cologne or not
16:31:43  <hylje> direct connections to mid-city? yesplz
16:32:07  <peter1138> Yes.
16:32:21  <peter1138> Takes quite a long time even from the shortened line.
16:32:33  <hylje> doesnt need to be fast to be the fastest way there
16:32:44  <hylje> population density, on the other hand..
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16:41:12  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14171 /trunk/src/unmovable_map.h:
16:41:12  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Make the test for HQ a bit lighter.
16:41:12  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: The presence of a HQ is only dictated by the 7th bit been set.
16:41:12  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: The rest of the data is related to the size and the type.
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17:07:54  <Wolf01> hello
17:11:11  <fjb> Hello Wolf01
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17:16:39  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14172 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp:
17:16:39  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Feature[newGRF]: Add support for property 0x13 for Bridges.
17:16:39  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: In other words, one can now specifies a 16 bits cost multiplier.
17:18:16  <fjb> Very expensive bridges?
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17:19:09  <peter1138> Yeah.
17:19:46  <Ammler> thgergo: ^
17:20:29  <FR^2> hiho
17:21:12  * Belugas can imagine the reactions: "the new bridges are cool, but can you restore the old cost, they are way too expensive" hhehe
17:21:17  <Belugas> NA WAY
17:21:46  <fjb> Yeah, I wish his bridgeset would have support for other road sets.
17:22:14  <fjb> Belugas: Make evrything chaeper and don't forget the ai that builds the network for me.
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17:24:04  <Belugas> fjb, i'd say that supporting other road set is not too far away.  but remember ione thing: actually, the artist has to provide the road set with the bridge itself
17:24:13  <Belugas> there are currently no overlay of the road
17:24:21  <Belugas> on the bridge
17:24:24  <Belugas> it's just... as si
17:24:26  <Belugas> as is
17:25:01  <fjb> The overlays that peter1138 is working at doesn't work for bridges?
17:25:46  <fjb> Or was that your "not too far away" part?
17:26:07  <peter1138> There will be, but I am working on rail types currently.
17:28:06  <fjb> But it will get extended also to road types? Is that the same thing only for roads instead of rails?
17:28:26  <peter1138> Was "There will be" not clear enough? :)
17:30:29  <fjb> Ok, I was just curious if it the same thing only for a different class of ways, tracks, whatever.
17:30:43  <peter1138> Well it'll be different but similar.
17:31:19  <peter1138> And there's still no thought as to having 3 road types, each possible on a tile, or limit to 2 road types on a tile and use the space to pick from a range of road types.
17:31:29  <peter1138> Well, okay, there is thought there, but no decision :)
17:32:08  <fjb> That would have to make the road type independent from the the road bits in the map array?
17:34:33  <peter1138> Something like that.
17:34:50  <peter1138> The magic of map accessors at work.
17:35:30  <Rubidium> imagine how that change would be without the accessors
17:36:26  <fjb> Hm, one bit in the map for "there is road" and then a lookup in a hashed array what type of road is there?
17:36:49  <peter1138> No.
17:36:58  <glx> fjb: for each draw ?
17:37:01  <glx> no way
17:37:06  <peter1138> Rubidium, nightmareish? :)
17:37:14  <peter1138> fjb, it's a road tile.
17:37:31  <peter1138> For drawing, you don't need to know if the road type is road.
17:38:06  <fjb> Ok, I just will be sitting here and waiting for the commit. Then I will see how you do it.
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17:47:36  <Celestar> back
17:47:55  <Prof_Frink> front
17:48:38  <Celestar> Rubidium: could you, at some point, do another code review of cargodest? No hurry however
17:48:51  <peter1138> Hmm, where are aqueducts drawn?
17:49:06  <Prof_Frink> Depends where you build them.
17:50:14  <Rubidium> peter1138: tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp
17:50:18  <peter1138> Yeah...
17:51:02  <Rubidium> in the "normal" bridge drawing routines
17:51:35  <peter1138> Is it me or is line 1014 also executed for aqueducts?
17:52:42  <Rubidium> yes, it looks like it does that
17:53:31  <Belugas> [13:38] <fjb> Ok, I just will be sitting here and waiting for the commit. Then I will see how you do it.   <-- Don't expect just one commit :)
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17:53:43  <Celestar> Belugas: one commit for what?
17:54:05  <Belugas> peter's work
17:54:10  <Celestar> peter1138: Rubidium: about that cl2.diff I showed earlier. Do you have any idea why it might segfault in the Vehicle loader?
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17:56:00  <Forked> huh.. some of my trams sometimes get a cost when moving passengers.. thats not fair :p
17:56:30  <Forked> (cargodest, the d98026c one? binary I found in the thread)
17:57:36  <Celestar> Forked: yeah, because some money has been attributed to the former vehicles of the cargopacket
17:58:11  <Forked> so the train got the money.. and the tram is out of luck? :)
17:58:16  <Rubidium> Celestar: my quick glance through the diff didn't find anything
17:58:42  <Rubidium> Celestar: could do another code review, but I'm going to hold you on the "no hurry" part of it
17:59:26  <Celestar> Rubidium: no problem (=
17:59:32  <Celestar> Forked: basically yeah :P
17:59:40  <Forked> oki, thanks :)
17:59:41  <Celestar> Forked: this will be fine-tuned later
18:04:25  * Celestar reads about the debacle that is called Tilting Train and the DB
18:14:33  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14173 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Don't check for rail type and catenary on aqueducts.
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18:22:00  <Niki-> hi :)
18:22:13  <yorick> hi
18:23:05  <Celestar> hey
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18:29:30  <fjb> Catenary on aqueducts... :-)
18:30:07  <yorick> could be...with electric ships?
18:30:09  <Niki-> hows it going? Iam playing ottd for a while and decided to intensivate it
18:30:29  <yorick> hows what?
18:30:29  <fjb> It is going very well.
18:30:39  <Niki-> real life ;) the most important thing on earth
18:30:55  <Celestar> er what?
18:31:09  <Celestar> "real life" exists? I thought it was a conspiracy theory
18:31:48  <Niki-> no it exists :) and there are alot of people having one...
18:32:23  <yorick> no it doest
18:32:46  <yorick> /s/st/snt
18:33:20  <Belugas> no, believe me Real Life DOES exists!
18:33:50  <TrueBrain> bragging, aren't we? :p
18:34:00  <TrueBrain> just becuase you have one, you don't have to put it in our face :(
18:34:56  *** death_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:34:57  <Niki-> well I guess its your very own decision to get one or not ;)
18:37:10  <fjb> They away from real life. It only gets you into trouble. Some people get addicted to it. We lost some good people to real life.
18:37:57  <fjb> Stay not They
18:39:00  <Niki-> lol
18:39:12  <Celestar> do we still support MSVC6?
18:40:45  <Forked> Celestar / peter1138: thank you, thank you, thank you for cargodest! :D
18:40:51  <Celestar> heh :D
18:40:54  <Celestar> no problem (=
18:41:08  * Celestar actually enjoyed making it
18:41:26  <Forked> I enjoy playing with it =)
18:42:36  <Celestar> peter1138: who's this prissi guy?
18:43:59  <peter1138> Simutrans developer.
18:44:10  <fjb> Are you able to build cannals on slopes in TTDP?
18:44:24  <peter1138> (After Hajo left)
18:45:00  <Celestar> peter1138: he sounds a bit disgruntled about cargodest or am I just reading things?
18:45:12  <yorick> fjb: yes, then they're called "locks"
18:47:18  <peter1138> Well he spent a while writing one and then abandoned it because we implemented cargopackets.
18:47:31  <fjb> No, I don't mean locks, I'm talking about cannals that stay on the same level but are build on the sloped part of the shore.
18:47:52  <peter1138> You mean with foundations.
18:48:12  * peter1138 wonders how to integrate a metro system in his game in 2284...
18:48:16  <Celestar> lol
18:48:19  <Celestar> not?
18:49:34  <fjb> Kind of. How is this harbour made:
18:50:21  <yorick> ajacent stations?
18:50:22  <Wolf01> uh, the opengfx gui doesn't load :O
18:50:50  <frosch123> fjb: canals at sea level
18:50:50  <yorick> Wolf01: not as static
18:50:54  <fjb> No, look at the passenger ship in the upper left part.
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18:51:21  <Wolf01> uhm, maybe I should read the readmes first
18:52:00  <yorick> nah
18:52:13  <fjb> But when you have cannals at sea level, then there are still slopes beside it. And you are not able to build station tiles on diagonal slopes.
18:53:41  <frosch123> fjb: you can see where the slope is, look at the warehouse below the passenger ship
18:53:57  <frosch123> the warehouse is at sea level, the road is not
18:54:32  <frosch123> (I mean the pass. ship on the right, don't know which you meant)
18:54:35  <yorick> they're nicely covered with roads :)
18:54:38  <fjb> Ah, that is the trick.
18:55:09  <fjb> It wouöd get flooded without the cannal around it.
18:55:23  <Celestar> I'm off, cu
18:55:25  <yorick> it wouldn't
18:55:46  <yorick> the roads on slopes, I mean
18:56:34  <fjb> But the station tiles would get flooded. Now I see it.
18:56:43  <fjb> Thank you.
18:56:46  <yorick> heh
18:56:57  <frosch123> fjb: and btw. ttdp does not have a lock tool, locks are built with the normal canal tool when clicking on slopes
18:57:00  <Wolf01> 12 years with only one bus in one city on a 64^2 map to repay the borrow!
18:57:27  <fjb> Wolf01: masochistic?
18:57:34  <Wolf01> yeah
18:58:10  <fjb> frosch123: But the resulting locks are like ours only with a different building procedure?
18:58:23  <yorick> yes
18:58:31  <yorick> openttd originally did too
18:58:56  <yorick> but it splitted, which is why the scenario editor had no lock button for a long time
18:59:13  <frosch123> fjb: yes, but you do not have to switch tools that often :)
18:59:28  <Wolf01> the only difference, IIRC, TTDPatch locks make the ships to stop in the middle, then raise and continue
18:59:38  <fjb> Hm, I don't mind, I'm not building that many locks.
18:59:58  <peter1138> Hmm
19:00:15  <peter1138>
19:00:22  <DaleStan> Yep. In Patch, they work like Real-Life locks, not like sloped water.
19:00:45  <Wolf01> nice, fast forward on 64^2 and just the time to write a thing and are passed 25 years
19:00:45  <fjb> Hm, that sounds interesting. With some animated doors it could really look good.
19:01:06  <peter1138> DaleStan, how does it handle multiple ships?
19:01:27  <fjb> Metro? Cool.
19:01:45  <DaleStan> Well ... Um .. That's when the Real-Life bit kinda fails. Or you could pretend that there are lots of separate lock chambers.
19:01:45  <Sacro> peter1138: 3rail?
19:02:25  <Wolf01> [21:01:10] <peter1138> DaleStan, how does it handle multiple ships? <- by don't allowing multiple ships on the same tile... but in TTDPatch two ships can travel across the lock, one raising and one dropping at the same time without problems
19:03:18  <peter1138> Sacro, allegedly. Looks like a yellow fence to me.
19:03:25  *** FR^2 [] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...]
19:03:28  <Sacro> me too
19:03:34  <peter1138> Wolf01, ah... just like Real-Life locks ;)
19:03:41  <fjb> DaleStan: SchrÀges Wasser (sloped water):Àges-Wasser-phantastischen-Erfindungen/dp/3871447684
19:03:53  <Wolf01> ehm, not really, one INTO the other
19:04:03  <peter1138> Sacro, Purno drew it, I think.
19:04:12  <Sacro> tis too high ><
19:04:18  <peter1138> There are bits of a proper 3rd rail system in the BRset, but not complete.
19:04:31  <peter1138> I'll try drawing one, but I can't draw too well :o
19:04:34  <Sacro> yeah, i think i was supposed to be taking it over
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19:04:38  <peter1138> Too high and too far from the track.
19:05:30  <peter1138> Ouch, a 10 car metro train can carry 2480 passengers.
19:05:38  <peter1138> Sounds like Japan :)
19:06:40  <peter1138> Mind you, might be useful for all those TTRS passengers...
19:09:22  <glx> <Celestar> do we still support MSVC6? <-- no we don't
19:11:23  <Sacro> well we should
19:11:27  * Sacro bangs fist on table
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19:14:43  <Digitalfox> peter1138 what about narrow track like metro you showed here? Can it be done also?
19:16:23  <Digitalfox> Or putting it in other words, can narrow track also have it's own construction menu like metro?
19:16:41  <Wolf01> is possible to generate scenarios like this with TGP? (this is hand made)
19:17:47  <SmatZ_> I think TGP generates more "random" terrain
19:18:22  <Wolf01> yes, but *random* should contain this kind of shapes
19:18:33  <Wolf01> like random(1000) should contain 123
19:19:06  <peter1138> Digitalfox, of course it can.
19:19:44  <Wolf01> the only problem is that you can't modify some things by changing a number of the seed... you'll change the whole scenario
19:19:48  <Digitalfox> peter1138 I mean not using the maglev menu but havig it's own menu like metro :)
19:19:49  <Rubidium> a purely random function can result in 123 never being returned in any finite amount of retries
19:20:03  <peter1138> Digitalfox, of course it can.
19:20:13  <Digitalfox> peter1138 great =0
19:20:30  <peter1138> (16 rail types is enough for anyone, right?)
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19:21:15  <Digitalfox> peter1138 who knows, maybe in 100 years will have more kinds of transport by rail track :p
19:21:28  <peter1138> searching for changes
19:21:29  <peter1138> ** unknown exception encountered, details follow
19:21:29  <Digitalfox> But i'm sure for next 50 years, it's enought ;)
19:21:30  <peter1138> :o
19:23:13  <Digitalfox> peter1138 can your changes also be applied to road track? Like having more kinds of road, example stone road ( a little too much too ask I know, but what the heck ) :)
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19:25:36  <peter1138> Digitalfox, one it's written for road types. They are totally separate to rail types.
19:25:48  <peter1138> < don't think that'll be possible though :o
19:26:47  <Digitalfox> peter1138 lol
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19:31:54  <Belugas> HEHE
19:31:56  <Belugas> he
19:31:57  <Belugas> he
19:32:02  <Belugas> shhhhuuuuutt!!!
19:32:06  <hylje> Hahahaahaha..haha ...ha.
19:32:42  *** mortal` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:32:54  <Wolf01> uhm... /me is not able to make the opengfx gui work
19:33:02  <Digitalfox> Oh a Belugas =0
19:33:10  <Digitalfox> How are you Belugas ?
19:33:14  <Wolf01> hi Belugas :D
19:33:21  * Belugas hides
19:33:28  <yorick> hi beluga
19:33:42  * hylje replaces Belugas with Ponies
19:34:36  <Bjarni> "my little Beluga"?
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19:47:47  <fjb> I guess I understood that harbour thing:
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19:50:54  <Wolf01> OMG! I want those station on slopes... ehm.. they aren't on slopes, is the road on the slope -.-
19:51:42  <Wolf01> what is to understand on that picture?
19:53:00  <fjb> It's a kind of mgic. :-)
19:53:06  <fjb> magic
19:53:19  <Wolf01> magic... more magic!
19:53:22  <fjb> It's all illision.
19:53:32  <Celestar> night
19:53:33  <fjb> illusion
19:53:34  *** Celestar [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:53:45  <fjb> I can't type anymore. :-(
19:53:57  <Wolf01> uh.. I cant catch it
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19:54:36  <fjb> What is the problematic part? The eastern edge of the harbour is at sea level.
19:54:45  <Wolf01> the canal
19:54:55  <fjb> A cannal at sea level protects it from getting flooded.
19:55:19  <Wolf01> eh, I made large use of those, that's normal for me
19:55:37  <fjb> It was new to me.
19:56:11  <Wolf01> I made an entire Oil loading station in a swamp made with newrivers at sea level
19:56:29  <Wolf01> too bad I lost the scenario
19:56:41  <Wolf01> but I should have a picture of it
19:57:09  <Wolf01>
19:57:52  <fjb> In my picture is a hidden slope behind the south eastern buildings of the harbour. It is hiden by the road.
19:58:28  <fjb> Nice swamp. Don't get lost there.
19:59:36  <peter1138> Rivers!
19:59:37  <Wolf01> I really like the piece of station near the canal, the shelves and the fake lorry loading areas look like they are on a slope because of the road
19:59:45  <planetmaker> nice map indeed!
19:59:55  <fjb> You can see the foundation of the road above the hidden slope behind the south eastern crane.
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19:59:56  <planetmaker> do rivers stop flooding?
20:00:19  * Wolf01 wants newstations on slopes without foundations... a sloped non track station
20:00:39  <peter1138> You LOST that scenario? :(
20:00:54  <Wolf01> I overwote it because I'm dumb
20:00:58  <fjb> It got lost in its own swamp, I guess.
20:01:06  <peter1138> Mind you, shouldn't be too hard to recreate.
20:01:24  <Wolf01> when I made the other one:
20:01:59  <Wolf01> no, in fact I should be able to make it exactly the same, maybe not the same industries
20:02:08  <peter1138> Hmm, we need a river generator, with optional swamps... hehe...
20:02:58  <planetmaker> nvm. Rivers stop flooding
20:05:20  <fjb> Rocky mountains...
20:05:44  <fjb> We need at least a river generator.
20:06:25  <planetmaker> hehe. A bad generator still with flaws is this:
20:06:27  <Wolf01> nice, I'm not able to load my scenarios.. the editor crashes
20:06:47  *** rortom [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:07:19  <planetmaker> Actually it's so bad it needs rewriting from scratch... at least the river "path" finding.
20:08:04  <fjb> But it is a start.
20:10:58  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r14174 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: since now, we are 'losing' things, not 'loosing'
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20:14:14  <fjb> I did load my last noai safe with cargodest now. That is a real difference...
20:15:09  <SmatZ_> hmm yeah "safe -> save", I am sure there are a few places to replace in the OTTD sources...
20:15:29  *** yorick [] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
20:15:50  <fjb> Ok, I will never learn that.
20:16:12  *** Kommer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:16:44  <fjb> The cargodest enhanced noai game is great. :-)
20:16:46  <SmatZ_> fjb: no problem for me, I am not good in English :-)
20:16:57  <peter1138> SmatZ_: safe -> save and save -> safe...
20:17:03  <SmatZ_> peter1138: indeed
20:17:17  <fjb> :-)
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20:43:06  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14175 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Rewrite the main toolbars to use the standard dropdown menu system, allowing flexible menus instead of fixed string lists, and removing code duplication.
20:43:37  <Noldo> peter1138: that's road type stuff?
20:43:45  <peter1138> No.
20:44:07  <glx> TrueBrain: DorpsGek is on strike again ;)
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20:48:33  <SmatZ_> save -> safe (I couldn't find any wrong "safe" usage)
20:49:35  <peter1138> hg not updated :o
20:50:01  <Rubidium> so the postcommit hook is lagging or so?
20:50:36  <peter1138> Lagging just a bit, it's missing r14174 too...
20:50:44  <glx> no mail for r14174
20:51:12  <glx> (and it's not because its size)
20:54:36  <Kloopy> Is there a revision log for trunk available on a webpage somewhere?
20:55:29  <Rubidium>
20:55:38  <Rubidium>
20:55:49  <SmatZ_> :)
20:55:49  <Kloopy> :D.. easy when you know where :P
20:55:50  <Kloopy> Thank you
20:56:10  <Rubidium> will be more clear in the future
20:56:24  <SmatZ_> I prefer this one, but it is down sometimes...
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21:02:21  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r14176 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Fix: better 'safe' than ... 'save'
21:04:22  <Eddi|zuHause> <Celestar> blathijs: see above. I can include the utilization, but I can only change that RARELY (meaning a handful times per month) <- the only proper way i can see would be to factor in vehicle capacity, vehicle count, air distance, speed, timetable if defined... those are static values that only change on user interaction. spreading the passengers over different routes is a separate issue, that may also help
21:05:46  <Eddi|zuHause> <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: made once a nice <- i did?
21:05:59  <fjb> Cargo destinations can have really unexpected effects when applied to older games...
21:06:15  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: maybe it was just fun :-)
21:06:22  <Ammler> you read quite far back...
21:06:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i read back from when i went away :)
21:06:53  <Eddi|zuHause> which was around 14:00
21:07:39  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't the semantics of the nonstop setting change anyway?
21:08:09  <Eddi|zuHause> to something like "orders are nonstop by default"
21:08:18  <glx> yes
21:08:31  <Belugas> night all
21:08:41  <glx> night Belugas
21:08:46  <SmatZ_> night Belugas
21:08:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that i suggested an alternative text must be very long ago...
21:09:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really remember it
21:10:35  <SmatZ_> [23:08:09] <Eddi|zuHause> to something like "orders are nonstop by default" <-- I fully agree the comment should change
21:10:42  <SmatZ_> like "Use non-stop by default"
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21:17:35  <TrueBrain> glx: how much revisions?
21:19:06  <glx> latest reported is r14172, no mail for 14174 and 2 for r14175
21:19:39  <SmatZ_> TrueBrain: seems to be broken again, it shows "simple merge" for all revisions
21:19:58  <TrueBrain> 2 mails?
21:20:01  <SmatZ_> as "diff"
21:20:21  <TrueBrain> SmatZ_: how do you mean?
21:20:29  <glx> TrueBrain: in the maillist yes
21:20:46  <Rubidium> SmatZ_: the hg and git logs look ok to me
21:20:46  <TrueBrain> I don't see anything wrong with git
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21:21:55  <TrueBrain> glx: anything else?
21:22:17  <SmatZ_> TrueBrain: like this
21:22:25  <glx> an r14176?
21:22:35  <SmatZ_> but it seems to work now...
21:22:48  <TrueBrain> SmatZ_: system was out of memory
21:23:01  <TrueBrain> mail for 74 send too
21:23:09  <glx> received it
21:23:15  <SmatZ_> ok :)
21:23:27  <FauxFaux> If the person who owns that is around, enable the pretty pictures. :)
21:23:57  <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: we own it, but define 'pretty'?
21:24:48  <FauxFaux> I can't remember what ot's called and I can't find anyone who has it turned on (and I don't use git :p).
21:24:52  * FauxFaux hunts.
21:25:34  <FauxFaux> "graphiclog"
21:25:51  <TrueBrain> bah
21:25:53  <TrueBrain> waste of CPU time
21:26:09  <FauxFaux> Pretty!
21:26:10  <TrueBrain> (remember that it is an import from SVN, and therefor one straight line)
21:26:25  <FauxFaux> Does it not read svn 1.5's merge tracking data?
21:26:54  <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: <- that is pretty
21:27:10  <FauxFaux> I never liked her.
21:27:31  <SmatZ_> TrueBrain: nice, make OTTD pages "pretty", too! :-)
21:28:14  <peter1138> Mental-note... TrueBrain posts non-girlfriend-safe pictures...
21:28:31  <SmatZ_> :-D
21:28:31  <TrueBrain> sorry peter1138 :) I never did it before :)
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21:29:50  <fjb> TrueBrain: Really pretty, but who is she?
21:30:15  <TrueBrain> Never wathced Dark Angel?
21:30:17  <TrueBrain> shame on you!
21:30:30  <glx> or Flipper (she was younger)
21:30:56  <fjb> Hm, is she playing TTD?
21:31:02  <SmatZ_> :-D
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21:33:43  <fjb> I have some cargo at a station going via anywhere that never gets loaded. Will that go away?
21:34:24  <TrueBrain> With Jessica Alba? Doubtful
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21:35:31  <fjb> I don't care for her. She is part of real life and real life means troble.
21:35:34  <SmatZ_> Without Jessica Alba? Even more doubtful
21:35:44  <TrueBrain> SmatZ_: agree'd :)
21:35:53  <SmatZ_> :-)
21:36:12  <fjb> Switching to cargo destinations killed AdmiralAI. :-(
21:36:44  <SmatZ_> hmm I thought OTTD supports cancelling cargo acceptance after several months/years ... but maybe it is a TTDP feature, and maybe it is only feature I have in mind...
21:37:02  <SmatZ_> *a
21:37:16  <Sacro> jessica alba?
21:37:19  <SmatZ_> and frochs...
21:37:45  <SmatZ_> what GUI would you like to manually cancel cargo acceptance? ctrl+click?
21:38:05  <SmatZ_> and it should be compatible with the cargodest patch...
21:38:46  <DaleStan> SmatZ_: I believe there is such an NFO feature. Callbacks 2B/3D?
21:42:03  <SmatZ_> DaleStan: I think the problem is cargo appearing at a station because (very long time ago) a train loaded there...
21:42:11  <SmatZ_> like goods appearing at drop station
21:42:57  <SmatZ_> and player would like to stop cargo from appearing there because there is a goods pickup station somewhere else
21:43:59  <peter1138> Should happen automatically.
21:45:02  <SmatZ_> peter1138: do you remember how long does it take?
21:45:51  <peter1138> I don't know that it does, only that it should.
21:45:56  <SmatZ_> I think there is such a feature, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the code (it is possible I was search....
21:45:58  <SmatZ_> aha ok :)
21:46:13  <peter1138> Hmm, patch now down to 50KB.
21:46:28  <SmatZ_> :)
21:48:26  <fjb> What happens with cargo for a special destination, when all scedules to that destination get cancelled?
21:51:21  <SmatZ_> DaleStan: sorry, now I understand why you misundrestood me :) "cargo acceptance" = "cargo accepted by station to be loaded by vehicles" or so...
21:52:29  * peter1138 .sleep(28800);
21:52:59  <SmatZ_> @calc 28800 / 3600
21:52:59  <DorpsGek> SmatZ_: 8
21:53:03  <SmatZ_> ok
21:53:32  <Wolf01> :O remake of the scenario
21:53:39  <Zuu> 1. If VS studio debugger says a variable has value 8, does that correspond to the enum that has the value 0x08? Should do as 0x08 is hex and decimal 8 should be the same as 8 in hex right?
21:54:35  <SmatZ_> 0x08 (hex) == 8 (dec)
21:54:38  <SmatZ_> you can use
21:54:40  <Wolf01> the old one:
21:54:43  <Zuu> 2. does anyone know what VS_DEFPAL stands for?
21:54:55  <Wolf01> cities and industries are different
21:55:12  <Zuu> Its declared in src/vehicle_base.h :67
21:55:54  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:57:26  <Zuu> Just "defpal" don't make any sense to me, and I can't make it out from looking where it is used. :(
22:02:01  <Zuu> Hmm, might not be that important after all.. vehstatus is only checked against VS_STOPED at the place I'm looking at.
22:05:37  <Zuu> Thanks SmatZ
22:06:30  <SmatZ_> on problem :)
22:09:41  <Rubidium> DEFPAL's used to tell whether to use a palette when drawing the vehicle
22:09:58  <Zuu> Okay
22:10:15  <Zuu> Testing letting road vehicles taking over broken down vehicles. Works quite nice. Through I suspect it fails under some contidions related to when they move to a new tile. But so far it's been adding one line to an if-statement :)
22:10:26  <Rubidium> you could've found out by grepping and analysing the place (singular) where it is read
22:11:00  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r14177 /trunk/src/network/core/os_abstraction.h: -Fix: define INADDR_NONE only when it hasn't been defined yet
22:11:03  <Zuu> Rubidium: You mean where the variable vehstatus is read?
22:11:25  <Rubidium> no, where VS_DEFPAL is 'used'
22:12:06  <Zuu> I looked for all places VA_DEFPAL is used, but its my very first time with VS in ages (read many years).
22:12:18  <fjb> When building an airport, do all the towns around it care for its noise or only one town?
22:13:27  <Zuu> Rubidium: But you're right, I should have checked the cpp file and not the h-files find in files returned.
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22:20:51  <fjb> There is no place on the map where I could build an intercontinental airport. Even tiles owned by no town are to close to one of the smaller towns. There is one town that would accept an intercontinental airport, but every tile around that town is owned by another town...
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22:21:45  <Eddi|zuHause> that's unfortunate :)
22:22:03  <fjb> Yes, kind of...
22:22:46  <fjb> Maybe an artificial island...
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22:25:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i still think cities should be able to "consume" towns and turn them into suburbs
22:25:32  <Eddi|zuHause> which have an increased growth of small houses, but very few big houses
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22:26:12  <Yeggstry> hi there, has anyone had experience of "stuck" trams?
22:27:01  <Zuu> Yes, but then I learned to build my tram networks properly.
22:27:02  <SmatZ_> stuck? like because they are the end of line but can't turn around? of course :)
22:27:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never ever had any of those
22:27:21  <SmatZ_> just build a train track piece
22:27:42  <Yeggstry> Zuu this is the first time I have built trams...
22:27:52  <Eddi|zuHause> that'll be tricky when the vehicle is in the way, SmatZ_ ;)
22:28:28  <Yeggstry> it got stuck at one of my end stations and is now speeding up as if to move then slowing down to nothing again
22:29:41  <SmatZ_> Eddi|zuHause: I think the game tests if you can demolish the tile you need to build at... nothing more :)
22:30:01  <SmatZ_> so it should be possible for trams to turn around when you can't build at the next tile
22:30:08  <SmatZ_> but I may be really wrong
22:30:47  <Eddi|zuHause> busses don't get stuck at such tiles either, why should trams?
22:31:14  <SmatZ_> trams need half-track-bit to reverse
22:31:19  <Zuu> Have I missed something (I checked TrueLights topic about new svn/git/hc URLs) or is down?
22:31:26  <Zuu> or moved?
22:31:29  <SmatZ_> they won't reverse by their own on a dead end
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22:31:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but really, why not change that?
22:31:49  <Rubidium> Zuu: it's in the progress of moving
22:32:07  <Rubidium> we're completely rewriting the compile farm at the moment
22:32:29  <Rubidium> and because we moved the webserver to another server the old compile farm doesn't update it anymore
22:32:52  <Rubidium> setting that back up takes a lot of effort when it's going to be removed "soon" anyway
22:32:53  <Zuu> Sure, I don't blame you, you are doing a greate work with the movement of server and all that stuff. :)
22:32:53  <SmatZ_> Eddi|zuHause: I don't remember, sorry :(
22:33:22  <Rubidium> but there will be a different page where you can get the list of tags
22:34:19  <Yeggstry> ah I managed to fix the tram by putting a service depot on the other end of the station :)
22:34:21  <Rubidium> but as that page isn't up-to-date yet (and contains garbage information) we're not yet disclosing it's location; primarily because a lot of people will assuming it being truthful and such
22:34:25  <Zuu> Nice. Then I just have too wait untill you anounce the completion of the rewrite project.
22:34:57  <Eddi|zuHause> for exaple, it doesn't make sense that trams can't turn around in a tram stop. i hate that i have to put another tram halftile behind the tram stop
22:35:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and newgrf_ports is not looking like it will solve that in the near future
22:46:04  <glx> newgrf_ports needs a rewrite ;)
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23:14:17  * Celestar can't sleep :S
23:15:41  <Rubidium> Celestar->FixBugs(&;
23:16:26  <Celestar> lol
23:16:48  * SpComb was having trouble tearing himself away from his vim as well
23:16:52  <Celestar> what about Celestar->Complete(&cargodest.hg) ?
23:17:12  <SpComb> (a memcached client using libevent)
23:22:42  <Celestar> Rubidium: btw: you can forget cl.diff/cl2.diff. I'm restarting that from scratch
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23:41:50  <Celestar> hm ..
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23:47:12  <Celestar> st->goods[this->m_cargo_type].cargo.CargoLeft()->SetCacheDirty();
23:47:16  <Celestar> nice one :P
23:47:47  <glx> are you sure it won't segfault?
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23:52:50  <Celestar> glx: if it does, the mistake is somewhere else (=
23:53:04  <Celestar> all of those things must exist
23:53:19  <Celestar> cargo is a class, CargoLeft is a class
23:54:43  <glx> I remember there were segfault with cargo left

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