Log for #openttd on 9th September 2008:
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00:59:02  <lobster> arrrrr
00:59:39  <lobster> anyone know if the vehicle list messing up has something to with the new vehicle pool and/or not using a nightly but 0.6.2 (as the OS X nightlies still seem to be broken)?
01:06:34  <Yexo> check if there is a similar bug report and if not create one (
01:07:33  <lobster> quite
01:08:55  <SmatZ> I don't remember anyone reporting problems with vehicle lists
01:09:07  <SmatZ> so, as Yexo said :)
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05:29:50  * Celestar has a 6-hour exam coming up
05:29:52  * Celestar hates that
05:30:43  <nckomodo> I'm so glad I'm done with school for now
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05:31:53  <nckomodo> ugh, hate that
05:32:09  <nckomodo> where I think I'm looking at another channel and someone from a different channel joins
05:32:10  <nckomodo> and its like
05:32:19  <nckomodo> "hey its that guy from #someotherchannel!"
05:32:49  <nckomodo> oh wait no it isnt I'm still looking at #someotherchannel
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05:37:11  <Celestar> nckomodo: I am the examiner (=
05:37:33  <nckomodo> ah
05:37:46  <Celestar> not the examinee (does that even exist?) :P
05:37:55  <nckomodo> it does now
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05:38:25  <Celestar> (=
05:42:41  <Forked> meep meep .)
05:43:03  <nckomodo> you have one eye
05:43:13  <Forked> I'm sort of sleepy
05:43:19  <Celestar>  -)
05:43:22  <Forked> also I'm gonna be late for work again because of cargodest :)
05:43:27  <nckomodo> .'/)
05:43:32  <Forked> ¯\(º_o)/¯
05:43:39  <Celestar> there still are two bugs to finish off :
05:43:54  <nckomodo> ¯\.'/)/¯
05:43:57  * Forked is just happy his vdsl2 started working again
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05:48:14  <stevenh> Guys, are any of the NoAI Devs here?
05:49:18  <Celestar> here maybe, awake .. I think not :P
05:49:23  <Celestar> TrueBrain: are you awake? :P
05:50:13  <stevenh> I just wanted to know if the Buy Land item has been left out of the provided functions for a reason or if it's just on a todo somewhere?
05:51:39  <Celestar> I *think* it is a todo
05:52:44  <stevenh> Is there any way of seeing the current todo(s)?
05:54:26  <Celestar> that I don't know sorry
05:57:07  <Celestar> gtg
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06:05:40  <planetmaker> stevenh: try #openttd.noai
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10:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause> +STR_JUST_RAW_STRING                                             :{RAW_STRING} <- what is this? is this supposed to be in translation files?
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10:19:52  <ln> my apologies
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10:20:46  <peter1138> in!
10:20:56  <ln> out!
10:21:00  <peter1138> shake it all about!
10:29:06  <Pikka> you filthy swines!
10:31:01  <Brianetta>
10:31:33  <Pikka> how rare
10:32:14  <Pikka> dinnertiems
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10:32:31  <ln> Pikka|afk: no away nicks
10:32:53  <peter1138> There's no such rule!
10:32:56  <Brianetta> Pikka is an exception
10:33:07  <Brianetta> peter1138: There is, according to thingy.
10:39:09  <Brianetta>
10:39:12  <Brianetta> that made me lol
10:39:45  <TrueBrain> wasn't there a rule against such urls...
10:39:52  <TrueBrain> do we really need to put all of them in the topic? :p
10:40:12  <TrueBrain> (nothing against you Brianetta, but we once had a user, I won't call names *bjarni*, who pasted more bash-urls then lines of text :p)
10:41:04  <Brianetta> The two qdb URLs were to different ends
10:41:21  <Brianetta> The first was a submission from this channel, and just a notification
10:41:27  <Brianetta> The second was damned funny, and a one-off
10:41:40  <TrueBrain> fair enough :p
10:43:37  <ln> TrueBrain:
10:44:05  <TrueBrain> why are rooms always too small for your stuff :(
10:44:26  <dih> heyho
10:44:48  <TrueBrain> oh no, a dih
10:44:54  <Brianetta> TrueBrain: They aren't if, like me, you have guys in your house adding places to store crap
10:45:00  <ln> guten afternoon, dih
10:45:02  <Brianetta> They boarded the loft yesterday
10:45:09  <Brianetta> and are installing shleving above the stairs now
10:45:37  <TrueBrain> well, the only place I could 'add' is outside the building
10:45:45  <TrueBrain> I don't think they appreciate it when I tried that ;)
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10:48:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r14277 /trunk/ -Change [Makefile]: Use [ -n ... ] instead of using return values from grep and read in
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10:49:51  <Brianetta> You have stairs?
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10:50:28  <Brianetta> re Pikka
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10:50:33  <Pikka> lo
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10:58:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r14278 /trunk/ -Cleanup [Makefile]: Rename $TAGS to $TAG.
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11:02:39  <dih> in the advanced settings window (formerly known as configure patches)
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11:02:48  <dih> the warning about the station spread
11:02:51  <dih> is that still needed?
11:02:56  <dih> or can that not be removed
11:03:13  <dih> there are a few settings where a higher value means more resource hungry
11:04:07  <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> why are rooms always too small for your stuff :( <- same as harddrives
11:04:23  <dih> or pants
11:08:47  <Progman> dih: your diaper is already full? *runs*
11:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause> who needs pants when you have harddrives...
11:08:53  <Eddi|zuHause> err... wait...
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11:09:38  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: after 1.5 TB of home storage, and 0.5 TB in backup storage, I kind of have enough :p
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11:21:04  <Rubidium> peter1138: can you take a look at FS#2281? It's likely caused by r14175.
11:26:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r14279 /trunk/os/debian/ (control rules): -Revert (r14237): Undo changes for renaming Debian packages, this is not the right way to do this.
11:27:08  <peter1138> Oh, yes.
11:27:13  <blathijs> Rubidium: Could you backport r14279? Or shall I?
11:27:26  <Rubidium> I'll do that (eventually)
11:27:39  <peter1138> There's a line to remove, heh
11:27:53  <peter1138> In t' drop down event handler.
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11:32:44  * welshdragon whoines at Brianetta
11:32:53  <welshdragon> i keep desyncing
11:33:27  <Rubidium> welshdragon: stop using waypoints and making RV jams :)
11:33:34  <Rubidium> or flooding people
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11:35:28  * peter1138 spots a dead pixel. Argh.
11:36:01  <welshdragon> Rubidium, i'm not flooding, and how do i stop rv jams?
11:36:02  * dih calles the amulance
11:36:02  <Eddi|zuHause> in the sky?
11:36:09  <dih> *ambulance
11:36:11  <dih> gnah
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11:36:26  <Eddi|zuHause> amule?
11:36:45  <Eddi|zuHause> böser raubmordkopierer :p
11:36:58  <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause, english please?
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11:37:22  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: if you can suggest a proper translation for that word...
11:37:23  <Rubidium> welshdragon: by stopping all road vehicles (yes that's a "bad" fix for the problem)
11:37:42  <welshdragon> hmm
11:38:11  <welshdragon> Rubidium, i kinf of rely on 200 rv's
11:38:37  <dih> you should not
11:38:49  <dih> not as bad as relying on ships, but yeah
11:38:49  <welshdragon> i do
11:38:55  <dih> :-P
11:39:23  <welshdragon> i have 160 rv's
11:39:52  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: assuming Boeser is a location, the Boeser robbery murder copy cat?
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11:40:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no... "böse" means "evil"
11:41:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: "Raubkopierer" means something along the lines of "software pirate"
11:41:43  <Eddi|zuHause> and the "Mord" in there is kind of a satirical overexaggeration of the itself overly exaggerated word
11:42:10  <Eddi|zuHause> because nobody is violently robbing software...
11:43:12  <dih> he was not murdered... he desynced....
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11:43:50  <Rubidium> so I haven't lost my translation skills :) reading something COMPLETELY different in a foreign language that there actually is (in latin I made murder parties of weddings and vice versa)
11:44:20  <Rubidium> not to mention failing to write proper English sentences
11:44:45  <Eddi|zuHause> it's kind of a running gag whenever there is a news message about file sharing and copyright law, to extend that word with even more non-sensical crimes
11:44:50  <welshdragon> one of the other companies has 127 rv's
11:45:13  <Eddi|zuHause> does the owner of the vehicle really matter?
11:45:32  <Rubidium> nope
11:45:35  <welshdragon> no, i'm just stating that there's over 200 rv's
11:45:54  <welshdragon> and that's probably what the problem is
11:46:13  <Rubidium> ask Brianetta to disable RVs for his next game
11:46:25  <peter1138> We need a 0.6 branch test ;)
11:46:41  <Eddi|zuHause> ask Rubidium to release 0.6.3 before Brianettas next game :p
11:47:15  <dih> there have been openttdcoop games with way more rv's than that
11:47:19  <dih> 600+ iirc
11:47:26  <Rubidium> that's going to take a while to be released
11:47:47  <dih> we are busy on the german translation ;-)
11:48:49  <Eddi|zuHause> "{P Zug ZÃŒge}" <- that is already my alternate suggestion
11:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause> or "Z{P ug ÃŒge}" would do the job also, but it looks ugly
11:56:13  <dih> it looks ugly, but nicer to do
11:56:40  <dih> if you want ugly you can even split it up more
11:56:56  <dih> Z{P u ue}g{P "" e}
11:57:03  <dih> hihi
11:57:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the second one needs the reference string, {P 0 "" e}
11:57:30  <dih> oh - true
11:57:34  <dih> could very well be
11:57:59  <Eddi|zuHause> at least that's what i did with the gender in the prototype window
11:59:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the grammar system is cool when you know how to use it :p
11:59:17  <dih> hehe - i only now realised it said Zugs :-D
11:59:33  * dih does not know that yet....
11:59:48  <dih> 1 Zug 2 Zugs hihihihi
11:59:58  <Eddi|zuHause> hence my comment ;)
12:00:07  <dih> that really is a cute one i must say :-P
12:00:29  <dih> Voreinstellung fÃŒr Signale though is not the best descriptive either :-(
12:01:05  <dih> well.. perhaps :-P
12:01:18  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it's furthest away from "Standard" i could get ;)
12:01:25  <dih> hihi
12:01:53  <dih> i translated a tooltip string
12:02:14  <dih> did not think keeping it 'short' was gonna be _that_ important, as it was a tooltip
12:02:18  <dih> well - it was too long :-D
12:04:09  <Eddi|zuHause> you can put line breaks in there ;)
12:07:44  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can i "mute" a running process (i.e. redirect stdout to /dev/null)?
12:08:00  <Eddi|zuHause> without stopping it, i mean ;)
12:08:47  <Ammler> use another window :-)
12:10:34  <planetmaker> man kill is your friend :P
12:14:34  <dih> nono - mute! not stop
12:15:04  <dih> afaik you cannot ;-)
12:15:09  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: fails to meet requirement 2 ;)
12:15:25  <dih> (- 2)
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12:16:36  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i would think there'd be some magic i could do in /proc/<id>/
12:16:44  <dih> ouch
12:16:52  <dih> uh - that could really hurt :-D
12:17:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, which is why i ask, and not simply try ;)
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12:18:32  * davis- hai
12:18:39  <Eddi|zuHause> wo?
12:19:13  <dih> da!
12:19:54  <ln> get away from the water!
12:20:08  <dih> someone can build docs if max_ships = 0?
12:20:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, when the gui buttons are not disabled
12:21:02  <dih> aye
12:21:10  <dih> SmatZ ^
12:21:55  <SmatZ> hello dih
12:22:13  <Ammler>  dih, advanced setting :-)
12:22:13  <dih> :-P
12:22:25  <dih> not the same thing ammler
12:22:33  <dih> building something != hiding build options
12:25:39  <planetmaker> dih: you wouldn't want to disable building the infrastructure. That's not nice.
12:25:50  <planetmaker> Why would you want it anyway?
12:26:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14280 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: use IsRailWaypointTile() instead of IsTileType() and IsRailWaypoint() checks at several places
12:27:04  <dih> planetmaker: imagin seeing an oil rig, and seeing that you just about have enough money for a doc and 2 ships
12:27:30  <dih> then you build the dock and find you cannot build ships as max_ships = 0
12:27:34  <planetmaker> so what?
12:27:44  <dih> and you are losing money?
12:27:46  <dih> hmmm...
12:27:49  <dih> company dead
12:27:50  <dih> boom
12:27:51  <planetmaker> imagine you want to build a nice station and just miss a dock for your eye candy. What then.
12:28:01  <dih> tough luck :)
12:28:12  <Eddi|zuHause> <- that looks fun ;)
12:28:14  <planetmaker> dih: there are no technical means to stop human stupidity. It's not even worth the try
12:28:18  <dih> docs are ugly anyway :_D
12:28:30  <dih> exit(0)
12:28:42  <SmatZ> dih: Advanced Settings - GUI - second from the bottom
12:29:19  <Eddi|zuHause> <dih> then you build the dock and find you cannot build ships as max_ships = 0 <- that's why the GUI buttons get disabled
12:30:26  <dih> nice link Eddi
12:31:51  <Brianetta> Rubidium: I take it trams aren't the problem per se, then?
12:31:58  <Brianetta> It's jammed RVs generally
12:32:01  <dih> SmatZ, Eddi: that option is not enabled by default!
12:33:08  <SmatZ> dih: it is not, most patches are TTD-like by default
12:33:40  <SmatZ> though... in TTD, ships were always available
12:37:54  <Rubidium> Brianetta, more specifically: imagine a T junction where there's a jam on the | part and RVs coming from the left and right merging into that jam
12:38:11  <Brianetta> yes
12:38:15  <Rubidium> jam can also be just two vehicles driving with almost no space between them
12:38:32  <Rubidium> and a third one trying the squeeze in between them at a junction
12:38:45  <Brianetta> I can either disable RVs, or disable LilDood
12:39:20  <Brianetta> He had one city in a state where you just couldn't see tarmac
12:40:05  <Brianetta> I suppose trams are more likely to reveal the problem because they're less likely to be able to choose a non-jammed path
12:43:13  <Eddi|zuHause> <SmatZ> dih: it is not, most patches are TTD-like by default <- which i have complained many times about... defaults should be for newbies, not for TTD traditionalists
12:44:16  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: complaining about default settings is not allowed.
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12:44:41  <Eddi|zuHause> ln: which part of the topic says that?
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12:45:09  * SmatZ agrees with Eddi|zuHause
12:45:14  <SmatZ> there could be presets
12:45:25  <SmatZ> on the other hand... who wants to play with default TTD settings
12:45:51  <SmatZ> including pathfinders
12:45:54  <Eddi|zuHause> there are rumors that they exist ;)
12:46:08  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: dunno. i tried to complain about the default message settings being too verbose on a big map, you'll have a newspaper popping up every damn second. i was told not to complain.
12:46:13  <SmatZ> mostly TTDP fans I guess :)
12:46:29  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the settings that are totally senseless (imho) is the red_twoway_eol
12:46:53  <SmatZ> not at all :)
12:47:07  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: not to complain and change the settings instead.  later some guy called "ludde" complained about the same thing.
12:47:09  <SmatZ> it is used to force trains to go different way when the signal is red
12:47:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean not the existance of the setting, but the default value thereof
12:47:22  <SmatZ> but if the signal is oneway, then the train may choose to go to the red signal
12:47:28  <SmatZ> ah ok :)
12:48:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i perfectly understand that coop-style people like to abuse such settings to the fullest ;)
12:48:11  <SmatZ> hehe
12:49:29  <SmatZ> I think it would be nice to have GUI for all settings
12:49:38  <SmatZ> and the ability to reset to default everything
12:49:43  <SmatZ> and to have presets
12:50:03  <SmatZ> but then it could be too complex for many users
12:50:16  <SmatZ> like "wth is Advanced YAPF settings?"
12:50:23  <SmatZ> and what si a PF penalty?
12:50:48  <blathijs> Something to make the pathfinder avoid things
12:51:15  <Rubidium> show settings: beginner, advanced user, expert ?
12:51:17  <blathijs> ie, rather take a detour than plan a route through a tunnel, or through a red signal, etc
12:51:24  <blathijs> oh wait
12:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the "important" settings need to be sorted in a way that they are accessible to newbies, and the "unimportant" (expert) settings should be in another window
12:51:28  <blathijs> That was not a question :-)
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12:51:55  <ln> default values are not supposed to be sensible!
12:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause> "beginner" settings could be stuff like the road driving side, language and stuff
12:53:39  <Rubidium> advanced user most of the currently shown settings and expert's the rest
12:53:48  <SmatZ> blathijs: :-)
12:54:44  <Eddi|zuHause> some of the current "advanced" settings should rather be difficulty settings
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12:57:13  <Ammler> start a game through a "wizzard" with about 5 pages...
12:58:38  <SmatZ> not a bad idea :)
12:59:40  <dih> the wizard of oz
13:00:19  <Ammler> first page askes for clima and difficult level then the following depense on that...
13:02:21  <Ammler> you might be able to "learn" which settings needs which level until the release of 0.7 :-)
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13:02:48  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i didn't get an answer previously... what is the policy about "{RAW_STRING}" in language files?
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13:09:39  <dih> Eddi|zuHause: {RAW_STRING} is not to be used in translations
13:09:51  <dih> so nobody can translate STR_JUST_RAW_STRING
13:09:53  <dih> :-D
13:10:35  <dih> also, currently in the db we have {BLACK}Liefert: {GOLD}
13:10:40  <dih> for {BLACK}Supplies: {GOLD}
13:10:49  <dih> would "Produziert" not be better?
13:11:21  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that does not quite cover it...
13:12:45  <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd log 13799
13:13:16  <Eddi|zuHause> @help openttd
13:13:16  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: There is no command "openttd".
13:13:29  <Eddi|zuHause> @help
13:13:29  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
13:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> @help openttd log
13:13:36  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: There is no command "openttd log".
13:13:42  <Eddi|zuHause> @help openttd commit
13:13:42  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
13:13:50  <Eddi|zuHause> wth?
13:13:52  <SmatZ> @openttd commit 13799
13:13:54  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by glx :: r13799 /trunk/src/lang (36 files) (2008-07-23 14:58:43 UTC)
13:13:55  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix (r13730): {RAW_STRING} should be used in english.txt only
13:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the bot commands me to contact you.
13:15:12  <SmatZ> :)
13:19:24  <dih> and {STRING} should be used instead of {RAW_STRING}?
13:19:57  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently that's what the commit does
13:21:49  <dih> right then :-)
13:22:06  <Eddi|zuHause> <- {RAW_STRING} does not appear in this list
13:22:17  <dih> nope
13:22:18  <dih> i know
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13:22:22  <dih> that's why i asked
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13:26:49  <dih> Service non-stop at <- that sucks
13:27:12  <dih> can it not way Go non-stop to service at
13:27:22  <dih> s/way/say/
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13:55:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "this timetable will take 5,555 ticks to complete"
13:55:22  <Eddi|zuHause> "this vehicle is currently running 374,924 ticks late"
13:55:53  <hylje> how many centuries is that
13:58:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i was playing that (old) game with daylength 4, so the original timetable is 18 days, and the lateness is roughly 3 years ;)
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13:59:17  <Eddi|zuHause> where the train is 43 years old
13:59:44  <hylje> i'd myself be pretty upset if my train ended up three years late
14:01:18  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a typical case of "a 10% error margin on autofill would have solved this"
14:02:45  <dih> for tool tips, does the size of the toop tip windows ajust to the lines the text uses?
14:03:16  <dih> i.e. length of string cannot be detected, but what about if i use 3x {} in translated text
14:03:28  <dih> will the tool tip window be bigger?
14:04:12  <SmatZ> I think so
14:04:46  <dih> you think so or you know so :-P
14:05:07  <SmatZ> there are multiline tooltips, so I guess it would work
14:05:11  <SmatZ> just try it :)
14:06:31  *** Doorslammer [] has quit []
14:06:45  <dih> i have already written a tooltip that was too long :-S
14:08:26  <SmatZ> :)
14:09:07  <welshdragon> Brianetta, these desyncs are annoying me
14:09:35  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a trivial solution to that ;)
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14:11:07  <dih> welshdragon: then fix them
14:11:28  <welshdragon> i knowwhat the biug is
14:11:35  <dih> what is it then?
14:11:40  <dih> rv's?
14:11:53  <welshdragon> yes, and i know, it's been fixed
14:11:58  <glx> dih: you can try it by modifying german.txt ;)
14:12:20  <dih> yes glx, just right now i am at work and dont wanna start a game
14:12:36  <dih> thankfully nobody asks questions when wt2 is open in my browser :-D
14:13:56  <davis-> unerhört
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14:18:18  <dih> sup davis-
14:18:24  <davis-> nm
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14:18:27  <davis-> bored
14:20:08  <Belugas> work, wt2?  same as irc@swork :)
14:20:11  <Belugas> HIDE IT!!!
14:20:45  <Forked> pfft
14:20:54  <Forked> also if you're a coder.. irssi has a great theme for you
14:21:09  <Forked>  <- is this not the perfect theme for any coder?
14:22:25  <hylje> perfect theme for any code monkey
14:22:40  <dih> LOL @ STR_000E
14:22:45  <dih> english: ""
14:22:59  <hylje> real coders blatantly irc and doesn't afraid of managers
14:23:22  <dih> lol Forked
14:23:23  <dih> that is nice
14:23:45  <Forked> I actually need irc for workrelated things now and then :)
14:23:57  <Forked> (easy way to communicate with people at competing ISPs)
14:24:40  <dih> i was thinking of writing some kind of bridge to another chat system for that :-P
14:25:16  <Eddi|zuHause> dih: i don't find any language where it is something other than ""
14:25:31  <dih> the english it self is ""
14:25:37  <dih> which is amuzing
14:25:42  <dih> it's like "why do we need that?"
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14:30:15  <peter1138> Sometimes you need to include nothing ;P
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14:30:59  <welshdragon> laggy wlan is laggy
14:31:05  <ln> "" in english would be "ciao a tutti" in italian
14:31:10  <dih> wow - your wisdom welshdragon
14:31:36  <Belugas> so is yours dih, hehe
14:31:45  <Belugas> [10:25] <dih> it's like "why do we need that?"
14:31:54  <Belugas> prrrrrt!
14:35:47  <welshdragon> time to try the ethernet
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14:40:27  <dih> Belugas: why dont you enlighten me?
14:41:15  <Belugas> you mean: "why don't you baby feed me, Belugas?" ?
14:41:45  <Belugas> Kalten, i'
14:41:47  <Belugas> m
14:41:50  <Belugas> in Canada
14:41:53  <Belugas> if youi need to know
14:42:53  <dih> no Belugas, i mean, why can you not as a dev explain to me the advantage of having an emtpy string in the language file
14:43:25  <peter1138> I already explained.
14:43:52  *** welshdragon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:44:27  <dih> yes - you did - i was more getting at Belugas ;-)
14:45:36  <Belugas> dih, why should I when you have the sources yourself and when you kow how to search for things?
14:45:58  <Belugas> gimme gimme gimme!!!
14:46:23  <dih> becaus, due to some odd misunderstanding, i was still under the false impression of you actually being a friendly and helpful person
14:46:36  <Lakie> ...
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14:46:41  <dih> hehe
14:46:48  <dih> i thought that was quite a good one :-P
14:46:51  <Lakie> There are limits to peple pataince.
14:46:56  <Lakie> people's*
14:47:22  <dih> no Lakie, in this case it's just Belugas and I having some fun
14:47:40  * peter1138 is having some Phun.
14:47:48  <Forked> iPhun?
14:47:59  <Belugas> i'm having fun???
14:48:02  <peter1138> No, it's on the PC.
14:48:02  <Belugas> he ben...
14:48:15  <Belugas> hey Lakie :)
14:48:26  <Belugas> hey peter1138
14:48:27  <Lakie> Hi Belugas.
14:48:28  <Belugas> :)
14:48:37  * Lakie sighs
14:48:44  <Lakie> Haven't got much done on new objects. :/
14:48:45  <peter1138> My suspension system doesn't work if the axle boxes are not connected together :/
14:49:49  <Belugas> Lakie, fear not, i'm totally stalled too
14:49:56  <Lakie> Hehe
14:49:59  <Belugas> wife has some higher plans for me :S
14:50:05  <Lakie> :o
14:50:21  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-77-86-2-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:50:31  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-77-86-2-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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14:52:20  <dih> "could you fetch the vase from that top shelf for me?"
14:52:28  <Sacro> who me?
14:52:46  * dih hugs Belugas
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14:59:17  * Belugas hands a chair to dih. Now, you can climb
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14:59:48  <peter1138> I think he needs a lift.
15:00:03  <Belugas> lol
15:00:04  <peter1138> One from a coal mine.
15:00:19  <LilDood> Any idea why OTTD wouldn't work on a PowerPC mac running Mac OSX 10.3.9?
15:00:38  <Forked> not enough power! (ok that wasn't funny, please forgive me)
15:00:46  <Lakie> Don't you need to compile any openttd past 0.5.x for powerpc?
15:00:47  <dih> lol Belugas
15:01:01  <Lakie> I don't think the official builds include the old mac cpus
15:01:13  <Sacro> should do
15:01:19  <Sacro> universal binaries
15:01:20  <Sacro> iirc
15:01:22  <dih> Lakie: they do, they are universal builds
15:01:38  <Lakie> They AREN'T
15:01:51  <Lakie> PowerPC and Intel use completely different Assembly
15:02:08  <dih> Lakie: it works for me!
15:02:10  <Sacro> Lakie:
15:02:17  <dih> have you never heared of universal binaries?
15:02:41  <Eddi|zuHause> <- i have a lift ;)
15:03:03  <Lakie> No
15:03:11  <Lakie> I don't use macs
15:03:14  <Lakie> too expensive
15:03:45  <dih> hehe
15:03:59  <peter1138> LilDood, depends what "wouldn't work" means.
15:04:07  <dih> you can buy a 12" ppc at quite a reasonable price :-P
15:04:19  <Sacro> Lakie: google "osx86"
15:04:27  <LilDood> It won't run
15:05:14  *** Zr40 [] has joined #openttd
15:05:40  <peter1138> The lost art of reporting bugs.
15:05:46  <peter1138> Will it ever return?
15:06:05  <Lakie> Probably not, peter1138...
15:06:45  <dih> LilDood: you said that earlier
15:06:52  <dih> i can tell you it runs on 10.4 :-P
15:07:00  *** Purno [] has joined #openttd
15:08:02  <dih> LilDood: what kind of mac you got?
15:08:30  *** tycoonmarkj [] has joined #openttd
15:10:01  <LilDood> dih: I already said, PowerPC
15:11:08  *** tycoonmarkj is now known as welshdragon
15:11:29  <Belugas> any USEFULL error messages, LilDood ?
15:11:46  <LilDood> no error messages
15:11:49  <Belugas> nor BEHAVIOURS ? sounds, lights? smoke?
15:12:13  <LilDood> Its does the running thing where the icon gets bigger and fades away, whirs and then nothing
15:12:50  *** m1cmack [] has joined #openttd
15:12:54  <m1cmack> hi all
15:13:22  <peter1138> You need to try running it from a terminal window. It might tell you more.
15:13:37  <m1cmack> I have troubles with starting a server
15:13:44  <m1cmack> can somebody help me?
15:15:21  *** welshdragon2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:17:06  <Belugas> m1cmack: what are the steps you have taken to try to solve it?  what are the problems you have encountered?  have you tried searching wiki?  forum? what is your version? yur OS?
15:20:20  *** m1cmack [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
15:20:23  <peter1138> Hah
15:20:36  <yorick> I told ya whales were scary!
15:20:43  *** peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.2 | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | We Love YAPP | THIS IS NOT A PSYCHIC SUPPORT CHANNEL
15:21:26  <Belugas> lol
15:21:33  <Sacro> I don't see a way to see available trams D:
15:21:41  <Sacro> oh, there are no trams
15:21:56  <yorick> could you help me, my crystal sphere is broken
15:24:14  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*Yorick@*] by peter1138
15:24:14  *** yorick was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [My crystal foot can still kick]
15:24:34  <dih> LilDood: with 'what kind of mac' i did not mean the processor
15:24:39  <dih> i mean the name!
15:25:00  <dih> i.e. imac g3/4 iboot g3/4 power book ....
15:25:01  <dih> c'mon
15:25:15  <peter1138> "gpl the entire project and the problem is solved!" << Haha
15:25:20  <dih> :-D
15:25:28  <dih> hihi
15:25:34  <peter1138> I'm glad you're not my solicitor.
15:25:34  <hylje> magic
15:25:51  <dih> i thought it was amusing :-P
15:26:04  <peter1138> No, just stupid.
15:26:24  *** Kalten [~gav@] has quit [Quit: Kalten]
15:26:41  <dih> shame :-)
15:26:47  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*Yorick@*] by peter1138
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15:27:32  <LilDood> dih: its an early G5
15:28:30  <dih> which would make it a PowerMac
15:28:58  <LilDood> yeah
15:29:04  <dih> congrats
15:29:10  <dih> G5 are sweet little things
15:29:16  <dih> "little"
15:29:17  <dih> :-P
15:29:22  <LilDood> Thats what the setup guide says
15:29:24  <dih> why dont you upgrade to 10.4?
15:29:32  <dih> or 10.5
15:29:41  <LilDood> That costs money
15:29:50  <LilDood> And we rarely use it
15:30:03  <SmatZ> [17:29:43] <LilDood> That costs money <== welcome to the Apple world :-P
15:30:27  <Eddi|zuHause> wait... this is the first time i see yorick not joining 0.2 seconds after the ban is lifted...
15:30:36  <SmatZ> anyway, LilDood, did you try running openttd from console? what does it say? what version do you use and what version was last working?
15:30:37  <dih> LilDood: about 100 Euros
15:30:39  <LilDood> It cost us something like ?1.5k i think
15:30:53  <dih> no, you should not buy a new mac
15:30:58  <dih> just a new operating system
15:31:06  <LilDood> I tried it from ternimal, nothing extra
15:31:14  <dih> mac prices are nearly the same all over the world*
15:31:18  <dih> *excluding US
15:31:22  <LilDood> heh
15:31:32  <LilDood> not my decision to upgrade
15:31:33  <dih> pricess are lower in the US
15:31:49  <dih> i would suggest it
15:32:10  <dih> i take it it's at work?
15:32:17  <LilDood> Its at home
15:32:35  <dih> then you should have less issues getting it upgraded
15:32:53  <LilDood> No point, we hardly use it
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15:33:12  <LilDood> I'm only on it now cause my PC is broke
15:33:17  <dih> LilDood: that is a wast of a very good computer
15:33:29  <dih> a G5 is a great machine
15:33:31  <LilDood> I didn't pay for it
15:33:33  <dih> so?
15:33:35  <yorick> Eddi: it took a while, I was playing :-)
15:33:44  <dih> if nobody uses it, why can you not use it?
15:33:53  <LilDood> I play games
15:34:27  <dih> and there are no games for os x?
15:34:31  <dih> :-P
15:34:45  <LilDood> No, its just I have lots of PC games
15:35:02  <LilDood> that and this mac is a bit slow, we havn't upgraded it
15:35:34  <dih> i am sure if you wanted to get rid of it the openttd guys would take it :-D
15:35:46  <LilDood> oh no, we don't
15:35:51  <LilDood> Its a spare really
15:36:00  <dih> well - then make it usable :-P
15:36:07  <LilDood> It gets a lot of sleep
15:36:09  <dih> 10.3 sucks
15:36:10  <welshdragon> 'must demolish bus station first' <- that's what i want rid of
15:36:16  <welshdragon> grr
15:36:28  <LilDood> You using the bulldozer thingy?
15:36:31  <welshdragon> yes
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15:36:36  <welshdragon> the dynamite
15:36:54  <LilDood> not the remove only road thing
15:36:55  <dih> LilDood: how did you try to start the game from the command line
15:37:14  <LilDood> i just opened it
15:37:20  <LilDood> open
15:37:23  <dih> ah
15:37:24  <dih> yes
15:37:29  <dih> cd
15:37:31  <dih> ls
15:37:45  <dih> in one of those folders there is a file called openttd
15:37:48  <dih> do ./openttd to that
15:39:18  <LilDood> i'm in the OTTD folder which has all the stuff in
15:39:24  <welshdragon> LilDood,   that's what i was doing
15:39:49  <LilDood> Switch it to bus station
15:40:53  <welshdragon> aah, clever
15:41:00  <welshdragon> well, i never knew that :P
15:42:31  <dih> LilDood: cd to
15:42:34  <dih> and type
15:42:36  <dih> ./openttd
15:43:23  <LilDood> k, its doing something
15:43:30  <LilDood> Segmentation fault
15:44:19  <dih> you can paste a few lines of the output to
15:44:30  <dih> and give us the url in here of the paste
15:44:45  <LilDood> Segmentation fault is the only line of output
15:44:52  <dih> oh and on top of that specify what version of openttd you are trying to run
15:44:57  <dih> then try
15:45:02  <dih> ./openttd -d 9
15:45:29  <LilDood> still 1 line
15:45:37  <dih> what version of openttd?
15:45:45  <LilDood> 0.6.2
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15:47:24  <dih> LilDood: you could try
15:47:29  <dih> a little nightly
15:48:59  <LilDood> that runs fine
15:49:13  <dih> :-)
15:49:18  <dih> well then :-)
15:49:56  <Belugas> now, what should we say to uncle dih for his help?
15:50:09  <dih> thanks uncle dih
15:50:14  <dih> :-P
15:50:22  <LilDood> Thanks dih :D
15:50:25  <Kloopy> "Can I stoke your beard?"
15:50:34  <dih> no touchty
15:50:59  <SmatZ> :_D
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15:53:11  <Rubidium> see, I already told Bjarni... you can't compile an OSX binary that works on 10.3, 10.4 *and* 10.5. Only one for 10.3 and 10.4 or 10.4 and 10.5... Apple has really been doing great work lately
15:55:40  <Rubidium> LilDood: the best you can do is post a bug report on flyspray that the 0.6.2 release doesn't work on 10.3 and that the nightlies do
15:56:25  <dih> Rubidium: then the best thing to do is to make 2 versions for os x
15:56:37  <dih> 10.3 + 10.4 ppc only
15:56:41  <FauxFaux> Or zero versions.
15:56:44  <dih> 10.4 + 10.5 intel only
15:56:46  <SmatZ> hehe
15:56:49  <dih> will lower bandwidth
15:56:51  <ln> Rubidium: that might be the price of not trying to maintain backwards compatibility forever like Microsoft.
15:57:25  <dih> ln: they did that already once before
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15:57:32  <dih> thinking of os 9 to os x here
15:57:56  <dih> hehe - simply build binaries for os 9, who wants to play can install classic :-D
15:58:13  <glx> dih: it's impossible to make a working 10.5 intel
15:58:18  <ln> dih: can install if they happen to have a ppc.
15:58:30  <glx> (without a real mac)
16:00:02  <Rubidium> we could ofcourse remove the locale detection from OSX as that's most likely the part of OpenTTD causing the crash
16:01:26  <ln> most likely based on what evidence?
16:01:52  <Rubidium> the fact that Bjarni has been messing with it
16:02:09  <peter1138> Heh
16:02:33  <Rubidium> and the fact that the code is different if 'max mac version' >= 10.5 than when it's < 10.5
16:02:43  <dih> laters
16:03:02  <Rubidium> and the nightly farm compiles with max mac version 10.4 and Bjarni makes the releases with max mac version 10.5
16:04:43  <ln> Rubidium: removing locale detection would be a big step backwards in usability.  and you should have at least a backtrace to support your claims.
16:05:49  <Rubidium> fine, then we'll remove 10.3 and 10.5 from the "officially" supported versions of OSX
16:06:01  <Rubidium> solves this issue and the compile farm issue
16:06:32  <ln> wait, i have a better idea: remove OS X from the "officially" supported ports
16:07:00  <Rubidium> fine by me too; just use darwine
16:11:28  <Rubidium> ln: what would calling an API function with more parameters than it "supports" do?
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16:12:51  <SpComb> Rubidium: make daemons fly out of your nose
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16:15:41  <Rubidium> SpComb: not out mine, I'm staying as far aware from Apple products as possible
16:15:52  <Rubidium> s/aware/away/
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16:19:34  <Pikka> are you sure?
16:20:26  <Rubidium> who should be sure of what?
16:21:03  <Pikka> that this is not a psychic support channel?
16:22:31  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i fear this "angewendet"/"angewandt" discussion is not going to lead anywhere...
16:23:54  <ln> Rubidium: no idea actually, could imagine it would cause an error about missing symbol at runtime.
16:24:53  <Rubidium> I can really imagine undefined behaviour, especially segfaults
16:25:14  <Rubidium> ofcourse that doesn't prove a thing
16:25:32  <Eddi|zuHause> we might be psychic, but this is definitely not a support channel :p
16:27:02  <hylje> arguably since it's a known fact that people don't actually read topics
16:28:15  <Rubidium> hmm, Pikka doesn't belong to people? Then what is he?
16:28:49  <Eddi|zuHause> soylent green.
16:28:57  <peter1138> How do other software suppliers deal with different OS X versions?
16:29:20  <FauxFaux> Not providing binaries for osx, ime.
16:29:20  <hylje> Rubidium: well duh we used our awesome psychic powers to convey him that message!
16:29:31  <ln> peter1138: some drop support for 10.3.
16:29:33  <Rubidium> write a ginourmous abstraction layer?
16:30:02  <planetmaker> [17:58]	<glx>	dih: it's impossible to make a working 10.5 intel <-- but there a number of people who successfully compile it on Leopard :) Crosscompiling might be tricky, though
16:30:30  <glx> planetmaker: [17:58:39] <+glx> (without a real mac)
16:30:49  <planetmaker> :) ok.
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16:33:43  <planetmaker> [18:05]	<Rubidium>	fine, then we'll remove 10.3 and 10.5 from the "officially" supported versions of OSX <--- hm. 10.5 would be a shame (though I still run 10.4 :P )
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16:34:53  <Eddi|zuHause> the console command "patch" needs to be renamed
16:36:47  <Eddi|zuHause> "set" and "list_settings"
16:37:16  <Eddi|zuHause> and we need support for "set name=value"
16:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i too often fell in that trap already ;)
16:37:40  <yorick> and we need support for a better console
16:38:31  <hylje> embed python
16:39:06  * Rubidium knows a version of embedded python to use
16:39:08  <Eddi|zuHause> embed c ;)
16:39:20  <Eddi|zuHause> embed brainfuck ;)
16:40:14  <hylje> give it an (simple?) object which represents settings, maybe on several levels
16:40:29  <Sacro> embed whitespace
16:40:30  <hylje> make it introspectable and magically get documents from somewhere
16:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause> now i know! embed XML!
16:41:19  <Eddi|zuHause> then everybody can understand it!
16:41:30  <Eddi|zuHause> because it is human readable!
16:41:56  <hylje> for bonus points allow changing everything (through ctypes?), provide a simple scripting support (with e.g. scheduled callbacks)
16:46:11  <planetmaker> oh, and add a therapist like emacs has... :P
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16:50:13  <hylje> yep, emacs
16:53:34  * planetmaker proposes to start supporting emacs as OS for OpenTTD :P
17:00:28  * Belugas proposes planetmaker as the porter and maintener of that OS
17:01:22  <dih> Belugas, you must be out of your mind
17:01:29  <dih> we need him and his time for wwottdgd
17:01:47  <dih> :-)
17:01:50  <yorick> mainly his time
17:02:09  <dih> yorick, WRONG
17:02:24  <yorick> well, I need his time, you need him :-p
17:02:37  <dih> you need everybodies time!
17:02:44  <dih> or at least you consume it :-P
17:02:53  <yorick> yes, so I can use his too
17:03:50  <Ammler> hehe, planetmaker the nighly build maintainer...
17:04:03  <dih> :-)
17:04:46  <Ammler> seriously can't you use a macserver for that?
17:04:57  * yorick ponders making some time to get the python bot working as a proxy so an infinite number of people can join with unpatched versions
17:05:30  <dih> Ammler, if they had a mac server, they would us it
17:06:52  <yorick> but they keep saying I'm doing it the wrong way
17:08:09  <Ammler> well, then planetmaker needs to let his mac run allday :-P
17:08:11  <Rubidium> Ammler: any idea how much a simple mac server costs?
17:08:44  <Ammler> Rubidium: I thought more of someone who has already one.
17:09:01  <Ammler> and could run a side job all night...
17:09:27  <dih> no - 2000 CEST Ammler, not all night
17:09:42  <Ammler> menat every night :-)
17:09:45  <Rubidium> we don't want to have any time limitations for using the compile farm
17:10:21  <dih> i was more making a point of all build being done at the same time
17:10:26  <dih> or after 2000
17:10:50  <dih> Rubidium, why not buy a second hand mac mini
17:11:10  <Rubidium> very expensive to place that in a DC
17:11:44  <Ammler> well, it could run at home, does only need to make the build and upload it once...
17:11:57  <Ammler> but very unstable, I fear.
17:12:14  <Rubidium> we do not like unstable connections
17:12:32  <Rubidium> .hu <-> .nl was already unstable enough
17:12:33  <Ammler> I see, the reason for the new server :-)
17:12:40  <dih> Rubidium, perhaps there might be some possibility elsewhere
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17:19:35  <Ammler> [19:08] <Rubidium> Ammler: any idea how much a simple mac server costs? <-- around 120$:
17:21:30  <Rubidium> and you can install a whole development environment on that?
17:22:18  <Ammler> ssh access..., can that be limited?
17:22:45  <Ammler> well, was just an example, you would need for donating first...
17:23:30  <Ammler> a well english writer should write a nice email to some mac hoster and ask for it :-)
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17:23:54  <ln> Ammler: do you know how to install dev tools or other things through an ssh connection?
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17:24:05  <Wolf01> hello
17:24:56  <Ammler> ln: mac users will, I don't need to :P
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17:26:13  <Rubidium> and I wonder whether 1000 MB is enough for OSX's development toolchain
17:27:36  <Ammler> well, if you ask for a hosting, you should of course tell them, what you need, I assume, they know what is needed...
17:28:17  <ln> a lot more than 1000 MB is needed at least temporarily.
17:30:28  <Rubidium> not to mention a few hundred MB for temporary files during the compile
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17:32:29  <ln> the downloadable installation image of devtools is more than 900 MB.
17:37:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you also need a few MB for an svn checkout...
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17:40:41  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r14282 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
17:40:41  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-09-09 17:38:39
17:40:41  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed, 7 changed by Hadez (7), joeprusa (1)
17:40:41  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 61 fixed, 6 changed by ThomasA (28), MiR (39)
17:40:41  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 6 fixed by habell (5), webfreakz (1)
17:40:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: estonian - 1 fixed by kristjans (1)
17:40:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 66 fixed by habazi (66)
17:40:48  <ln> interesting, a swede speaking german on the news.
17:41:10  <Eddi|zuHause> baaah... someone should teach me to not open a post titled "Visual Basic 6.0"
17:42:07  <glx> where?
17:42:45  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r14283 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2281](r14175): beep only after clicking on the main toolbar, not after finishing the selection
17:44:33  <peter1138> I can host a MacMini if someone can find one :p
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17:45:17  <qkr> how do I use the new advanced signals? is there a guide?
17:45:48  <peter1138> Place them where a train should wait.
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17:46:17  <peter1138> might help.
17:47:25  <dih> peter1138: ebay?
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17:48:36  <SmatZ> hmm I wonder why oneway PBS are not used in that example
17:49:10  <peter1138> Because they're generally not needed.
17:50:44  <SmatZ> I use them...
17:51:07  <SmatZ> but right :) there aren't needed
17:51:20  <qkr> can I use advanced signal where I before used pre- and exit-signals? like when 1 track splits into 2
17:51:36  <peter1138> 'generally not needed' does not mean 'never needed'
17:52:31  <SmatZ> qkr: many people build PBS even in this case, when it is not needed... you waste more CPU power this way
17:53:29  <qkr> I have enough cpu power for openttd, that's not a prob
17:54:28  <peter1138> Splitting 1 into 2 with PBS does actually have a use.
17:54:48  <peter1138> A train following another can proceed earlier.
17:54:55  <Zuu> qkr: depends on how big you want to go. Going big big big, will make you reach the limit of what your computer can do.
17:56:27  <SmatZ> peter1138: it matters only in cases when you have signal every tile on your lane so trains can be so near each other... (and of course if the network is jammed,)
17:56:31  <SmatZ> and if you lack space
17:56:51  <peter1138> I find it far simpler just to place PBS signals everywhere.
17:59:18  <Eddi|zuHause> <qkr> can I use advanced signal where I before used pre- and exit-signals? like when 1 track splits into 2 <- most of the time, put a one-way signal where you previously put a pre-signal, put no signal, where you previously put an exit-signal, and put normal signals everywhere else
18:00:12  <Eddi|zuHause> where "normal" means "PBS" signal
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18:01:46  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and "no" signal means "backwards" signal, when the signal was twoway
18:07:24  <qkr> ok..
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18:30:34  <SmatZ> tadaaaam :) after a lot of work done on YAPP, michi_cc is another person with commit rights ;-) congratulations :-)
18:31:04  <Yexo> congratz michi_cc
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18:31:26  <hylje> the developers! they're multiplying!
18:32:31  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
18:35:32  <Sacro> hylje: we keep losing them
18:35:46  <Sacro> like DarkVater, Celester, Bjarni, TrueLight, KUDr
18:37:13  <Noldo> I thought Celestar has been quite active lately
18:37:28  <Wolf01> :O
18:37:36  <hylje> lies
18:37:36  <Wolf01> congratulations michi_cc
18:39:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: The list should be a lot longer...
18:39:21  <Eddi|zuHause> like Tron, or ludde
18:39:27  <Sacro> oh yes, Tron
18:39:34  <Ammler> and half can be removed :P
18:40:40  <hylje> in short Sacro fails miserably as usual
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18:43:24  <planetmaker> Hey, congratulations michi_cc :)
18:44:24  *** welshdragon [] has joined #openttd
18:45:28  <Zuu> Congratulations to michi_cc from me too. :)
18:46:33  <Ammler> cratulation michi_cc, now you can fix the reversing troubles ;-)
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18:48:07  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14284 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13958): Trains would not look ahead and extend their reservation on a waypoint tile in all cases.
18:48:08  <Belugas> Ammler, you want to scare him away?
18:48:18  <Belugas> congrats to michi_cc :)
18:48:27  <Belugas> you see what GODO work can lead to ?
18:48:28  <SmatZ> congrats michi_cc, clap clap clap :)
18:48:34  <Belugas> GOOD
18:48:45  <Ammler> I hope not, he just explained, it is not a YAPP issue :-)
18:49:32  <Forked> michi_cc: Keep up the good work =)
18:49:36  <Forked> and thank you
18:52:12  <Vikthor> congratulations from me too michi_cc
18:53:02  <Ammler> what does a power station need to disapear?
18:53:17  <SmatZ> Ammler: magic dynamite cheat
18:53:46  <Ammler> and why is that
18:53:50  <Ammler> ?
18:54:02  <SmatZ> ask CS I guess
18:54:26  <Ammler> Celestar?
18:54:33  <SmatZ> no, Chris Sawyer :)
18:54:38  <Ammler> :-)
18:55:18  <Eddi|zuHause> in TT original, power stations and forests never disappeared
18:55:51  <Ammler> but could considered as bug, or was it intendend?
18:56:03  <welshdragon> maybe it might be good to have older power stations demolished after a time, and new ones built?
18:56:12  <frosch123> Ammler: set property 0B to something non-zero
18:56:57  <frosch123> same applies to both banks and water towers
18:56:59  <Ammler> frosch123: I speak about default (non-newgrf) industries
18:57:18  <frosch123> what is the difference ?
18:57:55  <frosch123> the default value of property 0B is 0 for those four industries
18:58:14  <Ammler> and idea why?
18:58:55  <SmatZ> it was designed this way
18:59:06  <SmatZ> default value = value of original industry
19:00:04  <SmatZ> any NewGRF may override this value...
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19:01:47  <Ammler> the problem is, because we have a long starting phase, players tend to produce scenarios with many industries so there are some left until the main game begins.
19:02:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14285 /trunk/src/ (train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_func.h): -Fix [FS#2263]: A train inside a wormhole could free the reservation of another train inside the wormhole.
19:04:03  <Ammler> wormhole=bridge/tunnel?
19:04:59  <Zuu> As far as I know.
19:05:27  <Zuu> I think depots might be concidered wormwholes too, but I'm not sure when it comes to code.
19:05:57  <Zuu> But brigdes and tunnels are wormholes.
19:07:33  <Ammler> might it be that powerstations need to have property 0 because if they don't produce something?
19:07:51  <Ammler> -if
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19:09:46  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: forest has 2
19:09:57  <Zuu> Or it was to diferentate the industries and make some easier than other.
19:10:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: it was probably changed in TTD
19:10:33  <frosch123> Ammler: temperate bank has 0 and produces something
19:11:00  <frosch123> but hey do no change production IIRC
19:12:08  <Ammler> frosch123: but production is very low for banks
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19:16:48  <Belugas> [14:56] <Ammler> frosch123: I speak about default (non-newgrf) industries   <--- industry properties will not change.  they are as they are and will remain as such.  This makes it so that newgrf compliance is enforced and maintained
19:17:34  <Ammler> Belugas: I know and agree, I was wondering if there is a reason.
19:17:44  <Belugas> now you have the reason :)
19:17:47  <Belugas> plus...
19:17:58  <peter1138> The reason is; that's how it is.
19:18:08  <Ammler> well, but not from you :-)
19:18:15  <Belugas> we did not worked our butt for so long on newinduistries to change bhaviours/values by no-newgrf
19:18:35  <Ammler> you got me wrong
19:18:57  <Belugas> apart from maybe doing funy stuff like adding more acceptance/production cargos ...
19:19:01  <Belugas> when really bored...
19:19:41  <Ammler> me is just wondering, if I or someone would make a grf with that property >0, would that have a bad side effect?
19:20:40  <Ammler> as disapearing PowerStations, whcih are serviced with coal.
19:20:50  <peter1138> Well, you can try it.
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19:21:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14286 /trunk/src/yapf/ (yapf_node_rail.hpp yapf_rail.cpp): -Fix [FS#2265]: If a change of conventional/electric rail coincided with the start of a station platform, stale reservations could be left behind.
19:23:34  <Belugas> Ammler, it will not crash the game for sure.
19:23:52  <Belugas> it will just have different behaviour that waht you are accustomed to
19:24:10  <Belugas> as peter1138 said, try it and you will see
19:24:10  <frosch123> [21:25] <Belugas> Ammler, it will not crash the game for sure. <- never promise such things :)
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19:24:24  <SmatZ> frosch123: exactly my thoguhts ;)
19:24:24  <Ammler> like pikkas town grf :-P
19:25:21  <Belugas> mmh?
19:25:30  <Sacro> hi
19:31:15  <Belugas> hello Sacro :)
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19:45:16  <ln> Rubidium: i was told by someone who codes with Cocoa for living that calling a method with unknown arguments would result in a runtime exception.
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19:51:05  <Ammler> another reason for focus to dos palette:
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19:56:33  * Belugas shakes his head in disbelief
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19:59:41  <Wolf01> 'night
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19:59:59  <ln> see, for italian "" is not "".
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20:12:33  * davis- gn
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20:18:07  <nicfer> one question, does work opengrf.obg in 0.6.2?
20:18:28  <Ammler> no
20:18:54  <nicfer> the only solution for it is renaming files right?
20:19:46  <Noldo> FooBar makes me sad :/
20:20:35  <Ammler> nicfer: should work
20:20:52  <Ammler> and ignore the "corrupt" messages about...
20:22:47  <peter1138> "does opengrf.obg work" ...
20:22:50  <stillunknown> Noldo: the music player?
20:23:03  <Noldo> stillunknown: the forum user
20:23:06  <peter1138> One day, you'll all speak English properly... WHEN I RULE THE EARTH, MUWAHAHAHAHA
20:23:11  <Ammler> :-)
20:23:47  <Ammler> peter1138: I am thankful for that, really.
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20:28:43  <TrueBrain> I wonder if peter1138 forgot his pill today ..
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20:31:41  <Belugas> naaa... he stole mine!
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20:35:16  <nckomodo> <@peter1138> One day, you'll all speak English properly... WHEN I RULE THE EARTH, MUWAHAHAHAHA
20:35:28  <nckomodo> You'd better get cracking, LHC switches on tomorrow
20:37:07  <FauxFaux> No it doesn't.
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20:38:26  <FauxFaux> ( nsfw)
20:38:50  <nckomodo>
20:39:03  <nckomodo> I believe it does
20:39:16  <peter1138> nckomodo, I'm counting on the LHC to create the alternate universe where I am the ruler.
20:39:19  <Rubidium> it's already "on" for a very long time...
20:39:25  <FauxFaux> My highly reliable source of some guy saying it doesn't says otheriwse!
20:39:32  <nckomodo> peter1138 good plan
20:40:37  <nckomodo> hahahah
20:40:49  <nckomodo> "Seamen Willstain"'s comment
20:40:56  <nckomodo> hell, his name alone is worth a laugh
20:41:00  <Belugas> alternate universe?  alternate reality? I'm IN!
20:41:05  <nckomodo> possibly a laugh n a half
20:41:17  <ln> peter1138: a ruler with centimeters or inches?
20:41:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: one with less realism?
20:41:42  <Rubidium> with centipeters ofcourse!
20:42:15  <peter1138> Don't they have both still?
20:42:39  <Belugas> one that has less work@work for sure!  none at all woulod be even better!
20:42:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i think one of mine had
20:47:23  <dih> Eddi|zuHause: where did you get "Fahrstraßensignale" from?
20:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause> dih: from the old PBS patch, i think
20:48:29  <Eddi|zuHause>ße
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20:50:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it's exactly what a PBS signal does, it forces the switches into position, so that a train cannot alter its route, plus some additional stuff to make sure that other trains cannot cross this path
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20:50:46  <jinxjinxsen> hi
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20:51:31  <jinxjinxsen> what is the default startdate for a ottd game?
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20:51:56  <Zuu> 1950 I think
20:52:10  <Zuu> for "normal" climate at least.
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20:53:21  <jinxjinxsen> the first vehicle is created in the year 1925 right?
20:54:38  <jinxjinxsen> so why is it possible to start a game in 1600 or something else below 1925?
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20:55:04  <Rubidium> because one can write graphics replacements with vehicles for said ages
20:55:08  <Zuu> I don't know, I think it depends on climate, what the first vehicle is. But you need to be close to 1950 unless you use some newGRFs with newer vehicles.
20:55:15  <Eddi|zuHause> because newgrf sets can provide vehicles for that time
20:55:33  <jinxjinxsen> oh, thank you
20:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause> some newgrf sets provide horse carriages, or sailboats
20:56:54  <jinxjinxsen> for a default ottd game without additional newgrf sets the default startdate should be 1925? :)
20:58:59  <Rubidium> no 1950
21:00:00  <TrueBrain> hmm.. the good old days
21:00:43  <Eddi|zuHause> in "the good old days", games began in 1930
21:00:57  <TrueBrain> no, that version as not good
21:01:00  <TrueBrain> the D was better
21:01:08  <Eddi|zuHause> but there were more early engines
21:01:15  <TrueBrain> I hate early
21:02:32  <TrueBrain> now I want a good movie to watch
21:03:48  *** welshdragon2 is now known as welshdragon
21:03:55  <Rubidium> vantage point?
21:04:00  <TrueBrain> seen it
21:04:12  <Rubidium> not the one with supplemental Japanese subtitles
21:04:31  <Zuu> Try some sign language movies at youtube :)
21:04:44  <TrueBrain> you should watch the movies about 'the end of the world'
21:04:50  <TrueBrain> tomorrow the new thing in CERN startsup
21:04:59  <TrueBrain> and 'many' people are protesting AGAIN that it will mean the end of the world
21:05:07  <TrueBrain> (their search for the Higgs particle, that is)
21:05:15  <TrueBrain> possible tiny blackholes will be created
21:05:26  <TrueBrain> which WILL SLURP THE EARTH INTO IT, AND WE ALL DIE!
21:05:28  <Rubidium> too bad the protesters logic is flawed
21:05:43  <Eddi|zuHause> is not!
21:05:45  <TrueBrain> even more if they say: If you destroy the earth, I I  I .. .I KILL YOU!
21:05:49  <Rubidium> the first run, i.e. the one tomorrow, will have less force than the ones conducted up till now
21:05:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the world will really end this way!
21:06:04  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the ones up till now were not protons ;)
21:06:05  <Rubidium> the run in a month will be at full speed/energy
21:06:21  <TrueBrain> (well, for CERN that is :p)
21:06:38  <TrueBrain> if they abort a run, protons of high energy are ejected in a big block of lead
21:06:49  <TrueBrain> which instant becomes radioactive (I still hope it becomes gold, but that is impossible, they told me :()
21:06:54  <TrueBrain> now they also complain about that ..
21:07:03  <TrueBrain> but the leaks in the France reactors of last month, that is all okay ...
21:07:23  <TrueBrain> and the worst: people are going to court to stop CERN from doing the trail ...
21:07:24  <TrueBrain> COME ON!
21:07:31  <TrueBrain> trial trail ..
21:07:33  <TrueBrain> well, pick one
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21:08:01  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: ps: at full speed they won't be for a long time ;) They start with low energies, and will increase the energy to higher and higher levels over time .. will take a few months ;)
21:08:09  <TrueBrain> but I get what you mean :)
21:08:29  <ln> at what time does it start?
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21:09:07  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and if the world would end this way, at least it will be quick
21:09:40  <Rubidium> a well, in a month they expect to be doing "high energy" collisions
21:09:51  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that is better phrased, yes :)
21:10:06  <TrueBrain> as long as they don't loose vacuum, it should go pretty rapidly
21:11:30  *** FauxFaux was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [never do that again]
21:11:45  * glx was reading backlog ;)
21:11:52  <Rubidium> did I miss something?
21:12:04  <glx> the link he posted
21:12:27  <ln> you want to miss it.
21:13:00  <glx> indeed
21:13:59  <welshdragon> indeed, that link was bad
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21:16:08  <TrueBrain> What happens If i were in the CERN TUnnel during the particle flows and collisions?
21:16:08  <TrueBrain> 1. What happens if i were to stand in the 27km tunnel of CERN while the PROTONS are being fired in 1 direction?
21:16:08  <TrueBrain> 2. What happens if i were standing in the 27km tunnel of CERN while protons were being fired in both directION?
21:16:08  <TrueBrain> What would happen to me?
21:16:12  <TrueBrain> LOL!!!
21:16:17  <TrueBrain> what a question ;)
21:16:25  <eekee> haha
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21:16:43  <TrueBrain> inside the tube: YOU DIE (vacuum)
21:16:45  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
21:16:48  <TrueBrain> well, you don't fit in the tube, but okay
21:16:58  <TrueBrain> in the tunnels ... you don't want to know :p
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21:18:47  <Rubidium> it's pretty chilly in the tunnels I reckon
21:19:02  <TrueBrain> enough helium to cool your brains, yes yes :p
21:19:25  <eekee> other particle accelerators had tunnels accessible for maintainance
21:19:27  <TrueBrain> but the tubes itself are only 1.9K
21:19:34  <TrueBrain> so the tunnel should be slightly hotter :p
21:19:38  <TrueBrain> eekee: only when offline ;)
21:19:44  <eekee> of course :)
21:20:02  <TrueBrain> when a supercondocter breaks, they shut down the thing, and someone is sent to repair it ;)
21:20:09  <TrueBrain> (byebye vacuum .. hello 1 week waiting time :p)
21:20:19  <Rubidium> 1 week?
21:20:28  <Rubidium> I read something much longer somewhere else
21:20:32  <TrueBrain> dependng on the tube
21:20:40  <TrueBrain> CERN LHC is 3 weeks or something?
21:20:43  <TrueBrain> well, in that order :p
21:20:51  <Rubidium> they had to slowly bring it back to "room" temperature and such
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21:21:22  <TrueBrain> but okay, if we don't speak again after 0730 UTC, ... there was a blackhole who slurped the earth ;)
21:21:51  <eekee> mmhmm :)
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21:23:24  <SpComb> hmm, they do the next test at 0730 UTC?
21:23:30  *** welshdragon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:23:30  <TrueBrain> tomorrow, yes
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21:23:46  <SpComb> time to blow your life savings on hookers and poker
21:23:57  *** welshdragon2 is now known as welshdragon
21:24:07  <TrueBrain> and then nothing happens ;)
21:24:15  <welshdragon> SpComb, no, hookers and blackjack
21:25:01  <ln> openttd with hookers
21:25:07  <eekee> ahaha
21:25:35  <eekee> I was wonderng what I would spend my life savings on. I couldn't decide, but then I don't have any life savings so...
21:25:55  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:26:02  <eekee> actually there's always the theft option. I'd steal a supercar
21:26:23  <Eddi|zuHause> when was the last apocalypse?
21:26:37  <eekee> uhm... *thinks* :ß
21:26:40  <TrueBrain> 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004 ... which one do you want? :p
21:26:41  <dih> what is STR_01D8_EZY_STREET
21:26:47  <TrueBrain> (all related to NEW YEAR 'events')
21:26:58  <ln> 31th dec 1999 23:59:59
21:27:15  <TrueBrain> weren't there a bunch of people 'rescued' from a cave, as they were hiding there for the end of time .. October this year?
21:27:25  <ln> all systems failed, the earth was without electricity for months
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21:27:54  <dih> "Ezy Street" have no idea what to do with that! :-S
21:28:35  <Zuu> TrueBrain: Yea, I remember that cave too.
21:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> dih: it's in the music player
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21:29:29  <dih> thanks Eddi|zuHause
21:30:10  <Eddi|zuHause> dih: it's one of the playlist presets
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21:32:16  <ln> i wants a tv that can sync to 60 hz
21:32:59  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't NTSC 60Hz?
21:33:24  <Eddi|zuHause> probably need a 60Hz power supply to do that properly ;)
21:34:33  <eekee> erm, multi-sync TVs have been common for a long time now, at least in Britain
21:36:54  <TrueBrain> "The NTSC field refresh frequency was originally exactly 60 Hz in the black-and-white system, chosen because it matched the nominal 60 Hz frequency of alternating current power used in the United States."
21:37:26  <eekee> syncing to the power supply hasn't been necessary for years
21:37:45  <TrueBrain> eekee: neither are black and white systems still widely available ;)
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21:38:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't had a TV in years now...
21:39:00  <TrueBrain> I have a 30" TV :)
21:39:04  <TrueBrain> 32" even ..
21:39:14  <SpComb> I haven't had a non-mobile phone for three years
21:39:17  <TrueBrain> Jerimiah40: please stop timing out :p
21:39:27  <TrueBrain> SpComb: me neither :p
21:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a 22" TFT, that must suffice for a while ;)
21:39:42  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: many many PAL TVs can sync to 60 Hz, but not mine.  and it isn't even directly related to how expensive the tv has been originally, even cheap ones can be capable.
21:39:51  * SpComb still only has two 19" TFTs
21:39:55  <eekee> I haven't had a non-mobile phone in over 10 years, and... nope, I've never had a TV
21:39:58  <TrueBrain> I have a computer with 2 17" screens ... I either want 2 19", or 3 17" .. not sure yet ..
21:40:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no use for a phone...
21:40:21  <SpComb> I need to upgrade to 24" + 19" or something at some point
21:40:28  <Eddi|zuHause> mobile or not...
21:40:37  <ln> you never call anyone?
21:40:45  <eekee> I have 1 17" and 1 20". Have tried to get a 15" working with them, but no joy
21:40:48  <SpComb> people tend to usually call me, rather than the other way around
21:40:51  <murray>
21:41:05  <TrueBrain> LOL @ murray
21:41:10  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i hate asymmetry
21:41:18  <eekee> :D
21:41:27  <TrueBrain> <!-- if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated
21:41:27  <TrueBrain> please email to receive a full refund -->
21:41:39  *** tokai [] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!]
21:41:40  <eekee> haha
21:41:41  <SpComb> it uses an interesting metric to determine that
21:41:53  <SpComb> if (!(typeof worldHasEnded == "undefined")) {
21:41:53  <SpComb> document.write("YUP.");
21:42:36  <eekee> I have different uses for different monitors. The 20" is my game & work space, & the 17" currently does chat & a few TTYS. I want to move chat to the 15" and use the 17" for web browsing & documentation
21:43:29  <ln> everyone started telling how many inch they are after i only mentioned TV.
21:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause>
21:44:11  <TrueBrain> why do people use youtube to just show you big pages of TEXT
21:44:34  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: the timer seems wrong :p
21:44:44  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: are they at least photographed on a wooden table?
21:44:57  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: yeah, looks strange
21:44:59  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: "01 DAYS, 11 HOURS"??
21:45:08  <TrueBrain> 11the, 12 o'clock
21:45:11  <TrueBrain> I think he was confused with the WTC :p
21:45:13  <SpComb> huh, I thought it was tomorrow morning
21:45:22  <ln> so did i
21:45:24  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they're counting the second run ;)
21:45:57  <SpComb> what second run?
21:45:58  * dih likes seeing TrueBrain in this channel ;-)
21:46:27  <ln> the thing is i can't play Super Mario Lost Levels because my TV doesn't support 60 Hz. not funny.
21:46:36  <Eddi|zuHause> "documentation"?? what is that?
21:46:42  <TrueBrain> second run takes a while longer ;)
21:46:51  <TrueBrain> but okay, some random date after the initial start .. :p
21:47:55  <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> I think he was confused with the WTC :p <- but that was at 13 UTC, i think
21:48:18  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: 9/11?
21:48:20  <TrueBrain> rings any bell?
21:48:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i seem to remember it was 15 o'clock local time
21:48:26  <TrueBrain> who cares about the time :p
21:48:28  <TrueBrain> haha
21:48:36  <TrueBrain> (sorry, misread you initially)
21:48:51  <Eddi|zuHause> which i know because i wanted to watch star trek
21:48:54  <TrueBrain> I know I shouldn't be doing this: <- This is AMUZING (and very wrong .. if such event would happen, things would go slightly different :p)
21:49:54  <Zuu> good night
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21:50:05  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: how would thing go?
21:50:13  <SmatZ> s
21:50:45  <peter1138> . o O ( Why are you Europeans measuring monitor size in inches... )
21:51:15  <glx> only monitors, TVs are in centimeters
21:51:20  <TrueBrain> peter1138: because I wanted it to make it easy for you
21:51:29  <TrueBrain> glx: monitors here are mixed, both inch and centimers
21:51:39  <TrueBrain> <- same thing, cool music :)
21:51:53  * TrueBrain stops posting youtube links ;)
21:52:00  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: more like: BOOM, SLURP
21:52:07  <SmatZ> hehe
21:52:26  <TrueBrain> anyway, I do hope a tiny blackhole is created
21:52:30  <TrueBrain> would be nice if they can detect it
21:52:37  <TrueBrain> finally puts that theory to a proven state :)
21:52:55  <TrueBrain> (and a blackhole of that size is completely harmless :))
21:53:01  <SmatZ> "We have proven our theeeooorrrryyyyyyyyy".... SLURP!
21:53:09  <TrueBrain> the front of a train is more harmful ;)
21:53:16  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: lol, would be cool, yes ;)
21:53:40  <SmatZ> right, tiny blackholes appear and disappear everywhere (theory which name in English I don't know, but it is a solid one theory)
21:53:52  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: String-theory ;)
21:53:54  <TrueBrain> M-theory
21:53:56  <SmatZ> yeah :)
21:53:57  <TrueBrain> which ever one you favor :p
21:54:03  <TrueBrain> (10 or 11, you name it :p)
21:54:16  <TrueBrain> but this means we would CREATE them, which is slightly different ;)
21:54:35  <SmatZ> :)
21:54:53  <TrueBrain> people worry about very silly things
21:54:56  <TrueBrain> it amuzes me :)
21:54:59  <SmatZ> :-)
21:55:07  <peter1138> Yeah
21:55:09  <TrueBrain> nobody cares if we freeze a particle to close to 0 K
21:55:12  <peter1138> Like, shit, it's bed time...
21:55:16  <TrueBrain> (which theories state, if that happens, shit happens too)
21:55:21  <TrueBrain> peter1138: enjoy your bed ;)
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21:56:23  <SmatZ> :-)
21:57:25  <TrueBrain> "Donkey Xote", is it me, or does it sound boring?
21:57:42  <eekee> Boring!
21:58:22  <TrueBrain> <- that is a cool movie :)
21:58:37  <TrueBrain> (and yes, that is the NAME of the movie, not their website (well, possible it is, but I wouldn't know)
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22:00:26  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> . o O ( Why are you Europeans measuring monitor size in inches... ) <- we don't, we measure them in "Zoll" ;)
22:00:38  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: one zoll, 2 zoll, 3 troll?
22:01:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, something like this ;)
22:01:08  <SmatZ> :-D
22:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> interestingly, measuring sticks here are called "Zollstock", even though they didn't have a "Zoll" scale in decades...
22:02:28  <TrueBrain> haha
22:02:35  <TrueBrain> "duimstok", same problem
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22:02:58  <Eddi|zuHause> what does that have to do with "Daumen" (thumb)?
22:03:09  <TrueBrain> thumb-stick, freely translated
22:03:13  <eekee> yardstick, only yards have only just falen out of favour
22:03:16  <TrueBrain> but 'thumb' as messurement ;)
22:03:39  <DaleStan> The original inch was the length of some portion of the king's thumb.
22:04:03  <TrueBrain> ('duim' is dutch for 'inch' I believe)
22:04:56  <TrueBrain> I like 'centimeter' :)
22:04:59  <Eddi|zuHause> there were at least as many measuring units in germany as there were individual states...
22:05:06  <Eddi|zuHause> which were up to 200 at one point :p
22:05:26  <ln> wasn't the original inch something like four grains of wheat placed next to each other.
22:05:33  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and you know them all? :)
22:05:35  <DaleStan> Only if the king wasn't available.
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22:29:00  <Eddi|zuHause> "(Revision 7886)" ... i didn't even know i have that ancient patches around...
22:31:39  <SmatZ> ?
22:31:43  <SmatZ> :)
22:31:46  <SmatZ> what does the patch do?
22:32:01  <Eddi|zuHause> change catchment area depending on station size
22:32:32  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like 3 lines ;)
22:43:30  <SmatZ> :)
22:43:49  <ln> who are you smiling at?!?
22:55:03  <SpComb> hmm, bad news
22:55:20  <TrueBrain> the world comes to an end?
22:55:22  <eekee> hmm?
22:57:06  <SmatZ> NOPE.
22:57:30  <eekee> damn. When's it going to end then?
22:58:01  <SpComb> according to the slashdot summary, it's between 09:00 and 18:00
22:58:09  <SpComb> although I can't figure out any reference for that
22:58:23  <eekee> ha ok
22:59:11  <TrueBrain> well, 7 hours remaining till the start-up ..
22:59:12  <TrueBrain> tick tack
23:00:19  <SpComb> but the cern page says that it'll be at 09:30
23:00:19  <TrueBrain> webcast, cool
23:00:31  <TrueBrain> SpComb: checktime-zone ;)
23:00:35  <TrueBrain> 0730 UTC
23:00:36  <TrueBrain> 0930 CEST
23:00:46  <SpComb> "The first injection of a beam is scheduled for 9:30 CET"
23:01:10  <TrueBrain> CET ... that is +0100
23:01:14  <TrueBrain> short: somewhere tomorrow :p
23:01:28  <ln> CET during summer is +0200
23:02:22  <SpComb> since we're talking about the end of the world, they really should give times in UTC
23:02:34  <SpComb> I mean, it's probably not going to be some kind of localized event
23:02:58  <TrueBrain> I doubt they can give it an exact time :p
23:02:59  *** Zr40 [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
23:03:04  <SmatZ> great, I will be sleeping by that time
23:03:06  * SpComb goes to sleep
23:03:10  <SmatZ> I think it is fine to die while sleeping
23:03:10  <TrueBrain> night :)
23:03:13  <SmatZ> nn SpComb
23:03:15  <TrueBrain> talk to you tomorrow ;)
23:03:28  <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: No, due to relativistic effects it'll be all times.
23:03:37  <TrueBrain> lol @ Prof_Frink :)
23:03:47  <SpComb> Logs:
23:03:47  <SmatZ> !logs
23:04:13  <SmatZ> it will never happen :-P
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23:08:44  <glx> no collision planed for tomorrow
23:08:57  <glx> will be in 4 weeks
23:10:03  * SmatZ plans to enjoy (possibly) last 4 weeks of his life
23:10:07  <TrueBrain> glx: now I won't sleep for the next 4 weeks :(
23:10:38  <SmatZ> hmm leave school, build a house, plant a tree, give birth a child...
23:10:41  <SmatZ> not time
23:10:43  <SmatZ> -t
23:11:00  <eekee> :J
23:11:44  <TrueBrain> child part ...
23:11:50  <TrueBrain> the rest is doable
23:11:57  <TrueBrain> well, you would be able to give birth to a child
23:12:00  <SmatZ> :)
23:12:01  <TrueBrain> if you would help a female
23:12:05  <TrueBrain> I doubt you can do it yourself :p
23:12:15  <SmatZ> true true :)
23:12:26  <SmatZ> but ...6 mounths at least
23:12:32  <SmatZ> >  4 weeks
23:12:35  <TrueBrain> and in 4 weeks you can try to make one like 56 times :p
23:12:47  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: just go to any hospital and help a random female giving birth to a child
23:12:50  <TrueBrain> can be done in 12 hours :p
23:13:02  <SmatZ> if she hasn't been pregnant for 5 months already, what I doubt
23:13:05  <SmatZ> hehehe
23:16:10  <TrueBrain> whoho, I have a running Darwin8 install
23:16:14  <TrueBrain> no good what that does ..
23:16:17  <TrueBrain> but it runs! :p
23:16:56  <eekee> :)
23:17:02  <SmatZ> :-)
23:17:05  <SmatZ> I can run, too
23:17:09  <TrueBrain> bypassing the root login on Darwin8 is WAY too easy ...
23:17:28  <TrueBrain> (F8 on bootup, -s, wait till it is done, 'sh /etc/rc', and you are done ...)
23:17:50  <SmatZ> you dirty hacker :-P
23:17:57  <TrueBrain> maybe I should try to make an OSX binary now ..
23:17:57  <eekee> There's a quote (iirc) in the unix hater's handbook, to the effect that the flaws of unix are offset by the sense of achievement felt in getting it to work at all
23:18:03  <TrueBrain> just no idea how ..
23:18:26  <eekee> is SDL any good on OS X?
23:18:33  <TrueBrain> Cocoa for OSX
23:18:43  <TrueBrain> network doens't work
23:18:45  <TrueBrain> makes sense
23:19:55  <SmatZ> hmm wiki says 8.0 is 3,5 years old, 9.0 is 1 year old...
23:19:56  <eekee> If you can build for SDL on Darwin (with SDL using X), maybe it would also work when SDL is using Cocoa
23:20:00  <SmatZ> why did you install 8.0?
23:20:20  <TrueBrain> eekee: why? Isn't Cocoa in Darwin? :p
23:20:27  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: well, OS X 10.4 fails and 10.5 too
23:20:32  <eekee> oh I assumed not
23:20:35  <TrueBrain> so ... Rubidium thought it would be cool to use Darwin
23:20:38  <SmatZ> 10.4 fails? baad
23:20:40  <TrueBrain> which after some slapping works :p
23:20:45  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: well .. in a virtual env :p
23:20:49  <TrueBrain> not really legal or anything
23:20:51  <SmatZ> I thought only 10.5 fails
23:20:51  <TrueBrain> but we had to try
23:21:02  <SmatZ> :)
23:24:00  <TrueBrain> I first need a method to get SVN into this Darwin VM ..
23:24:05  <TrueBrain> not as simple as you might hope ..
23:25:19  <eekee> what's the VM software?
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23:26:24  <TrueBrain> VirtualBox
23:26:44  <eekee> ah I don't know anything about that
23:27:54  <eekee> in qemu with software networking, you could just set up networking normally & go, if you're not wanting to run any daemons
23:28:12  <TrueBrain> if only I would have networking ..
23:28:31  <TrueBrain> mount doesn't work as the linux mount .. that is annoying ..
23:28:37  <eekee> o wierd
23:29:09  <TrueBrain> permission denied
23:29:10  <TrueBrain> lol
23:29:23  <eekee> you're root?
23:29:27  <TrueBrain> dah
23:29:35  <eekee> hrm
23:30:34  <TrueBrain> gha, found it
23:31:19  <TrueBrain> so now I can make a iso with the files on it ..
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23:38:38  <TrueBrain> no 'CoreServices' ...
23:38:39  <TrueBrain> bah
23:38:42  <TrueBrain> the configure passed!
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23:40:56  <TrueBrain> if only I had any idea what I was doing .. ;)
23:41:01  <eekee> :D
23:41:45  <SmatZ> :-)
23:43:25  <TrueBrain> I can produce a valid strgen
23:43:27  <TrueBrain> that is something :p
23:43:46  <TrueBrain> we need a configur eoption: --without-depcheck
23:43:54  <TrueBrain> completely useless for the compile-farm, in any and all ways
23:44:38  <eekee> it's not a normal autotools configure?
23:44:47  <TrueBrain> far far far far from it
23:44:52  <eekee> oh :(
23:44:58  <TrueBrain> you ever seen the lines: 'checking for stdlib.h ... yes'
23:45:01  <TrueBrain> no, it is not a :(
23:45:03  <TrueBrain> it is a :) :) :)
23:45:05  <eekee> o ok
23:45:10  <TrueBrain> autotools configure takes around 10 times longer
23:45:35  <TrueBrain> it checks EVERY aspect of your env (if it is sane and stuff)
23:45:39  <TrueBrain> well .. if a user can't set up a sane build env
23:45:40  <TrueBrain> fuck him
23:45:41  <SmatZ> --without-makedepend won't help?
23:45:56  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: 'makedepend' is a X11 tool which in fact speeds up dep-check with a big facto
23:45:57  <TrueBrain> r
23:46:00  <TrueBrain> without it .. it is even more slow
23:46:10  <TrueBrain> for now we created a 'fake' makedepend on the compile-farms
23:46:18  <TrueBrain> echo "# DO NOT DELETE"
23:46:20  <TrueBrain> is all it does :p
23:46:55  <eekee> hehe
23:47:44  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I don't have Endian32_Swap
23:48:14  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: well that was one of stupid uestions of mine...
23:48:36  <SmatZ> --without-makedepend helps on sunos though :) it won't build without it
23:48:43  <SmatZ> because of max_open_files, you know...
23:50:05  <TrueBrain> completely different problem ;)
23:50:21  <TrueBrain> oh no, not again a dep-check .. just becaus eI changed one silly file ...
23:50:24  <TrueBrain> (of course a core-file)
23:51:27  <glx> stdafx.h?
23:51:49  <SmatZ> as I said, sometimes I type stupid sentences / questions, sorry :-( (I hope not too often ;)
23:51:55  <SmatZ> hello glx
23:52:07  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: it isn't a stupid question; you just don't know how that part of OpenTTD works .. big deal
23:52:15  <TrueBrain> glx: related ;) bitmath_func.h
23:52:33  <TrueBrain> compiling again .. at the 'm'
23:52:33  <glx> english.txt is a nice one too
23:52:44  <TrueBrain> qtmidi fails .. not unexpected
23:52:47  <TrueBrain> I miss like ALL libraries :p
23:53:14  <TrueBrain> like QuickTime
23:54:38  <eekee> why would ottd need quicktime?
23:54:50  <TrueBrain> OSX requirement
23:54:52  <TrueBrain> for music
23:55:03  <eekee> oh :o
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23:56:26  <TrueBrain> problem with Darwin, it only contains the open source parts of OSX (if I understand it correctly)
23:56:43  <eekee> yeah
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23:57:40  <eekee> on a totally different matter, sometimes with PBS I need to make a peice of track one-way without putting signals on it.
23:57:59  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: that's the problem... I (think) I know how makedepend works, but that fact doesn't me stop from asking stupid questions... just forget it :-)
23:58:23  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: I 10 times rather have you asking silly questions, then you never asking them at all :p
23:58:29  <SmatZ> ok :-)
23:58:34  <TrueBrain> now you know what makedepend does, and what --without-makedepend does :p
23:58:52  * SmatZ hides

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