Log for #openttd on 9th October 2008:
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06:36:58  <dih> transporter vanished :-P
06:38:32  <Eddi|zuHause> sad, was a great game
06:39:05  <dih> i sent them an email saying they were violating gpl :-P
06:39:20  <dih> and that they were including copyrighted grf files
06:39:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i was kinda expecting that :p
06:39:46  <dih> and they replied that they were 'unaware' of what the other guy did and removed it
06:40:06  <dih> sadly the subdomain still exists, but the download link is gone
06:40:17  <dih> and it's not linked from their webpage anymore
06:40:33  <petern> heh
06:41:07  <petern> if only they had included the source instead of the grfs...
06:42:14  <dih> and the gpl lisence
06:42:47  <dih> compiling with --revision=transporter0.0.1 just is not enough :-P
06:43:38  <petern> license
06:44:04  <petern> "OpenTTD transporter0.0.1"
06:47:27  <dih> transporter.exe --help still showed OpenTTD
06:53:41  <Rubidium> did the download really go?
06:54:20  <Rubidium> can still download the zip if you know where it is
06:59:04  <ln> what's this transporter anyway?
07:03:56  <planetmaker> svn co -r14xyz && ./configure --revision=Transporter0.0.1 && make
07:04:36  <planetmaker> ach ja, the check out of course from our well known source for source code :)
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07:18:01  <dih> planetmaker: that will fail
07:18:17  <dih> svn co creates a directory
07:18:23  <dih> if you co trunk it will be trunk/
07:18:28  <dih> you need to cd to it first
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07:53:27  <planetmaker> right, dih :)
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07:54:35  <Phazorx> morning...
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07:56:23  <Phazorx> have a silly question, trying to patch current trunk with oldtracks and it complains about scope of _opt.landscape, is it named something different now? (patch is ~250 revisions behind
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08:21:44  <dih> Phazorx: in that case a lot has happened
08:22:19  <dih> try bringing the patch up to date by doing only a few revs at a time
08:32:59  <petern> Yeah, the settings stuff has changed a lot.
08:33:51  <Rubidium> but way more than 250 revisions ago
08:34:48  <petern> Rubidium: did check -> checked
08:36:22  <Rubidium> huh?
08:39:06  <petern> r14450
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08:47:22  <Celestar> hey
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08:51:54  <petern> Today is a fragrant day.
08:52:27  <FauxFaux> It's of negative pressure here.
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09:00:22  <planetmaker> there's no such thing as negative pressure :P
09:00:33  <planetmaker> if at all, it's tension ;)
09:01:23  <planetmaker> </nit-picking>
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09:21:17  <FauxFaux> planetmaker: A relatively negative pressure?
09:21:22  <FauxFaux> Compared to other days.
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09:21:57  <planetmaker> then it's 'relatively low' :)
09:23:01  <FauxFaux> You're going to be one of these people who claim that lightbulbs aren't darkness absorbers, aren't you. ¬_¬
09:23:38  <Sacro> FauxFaux: they are
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10:05:24  <eQualizer|dada> I heard someone has made similar kind of thing in OpenTTD but with trains?
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10:47:44  * petern ponders upping his server to lenny.
10:48:29  <Aali> lenny?
10:48:34  <petern> Debian Lenny.
10:48:47  <Aali> oh, the latest Debian?
10:48:54  <petern> Well, testing.
10:49:01  <petern> Stable is still Etch.
10:49:39  <Aali> which is funny, because the testing branch of debian is still a year behind the rest of the world
10:49:44  <Aali> :P
10:50:03  <Brianetta> Debian COnservative
10:50:29  <petern> Why break a winning formula?
10:51:47  * FauxFaux hands Aali an urban legend.
10:52:04  <FauxFaux> It's not that far behind at this point in the release cycle. ¬_¬
10:52:53  <Aali> I like poking fun at it nonetheless
10:52:59  <Rubidium> it's currently actually further behind than at other times in the release cycle
10:53:37  <Rubidium> if they weren't about to release lenny as stable OpenTTD 0.6.3 would've been in testing, now it isn't and won't be in lenny
10:53:43  <FauxFaux> I was talking about compared to the state of tesing ten seconds before it officially becomes etch in about a year.
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10:55:32  <Rubidium> well, testing is now in a very deep freeze for about 3 months
10:55:54  <petern> And still full of bugs :D
10:56:13  <Phantasm> ☃ <-- Unicode Snowman. ;p
10:57:11  <FauxFaux> Yeah, the rc count is still way above 200, aages 'till release.
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11:08:37  <dih> FauxFaux: lenny will never become etch
11:17:51  <FauxFaux> Become.. the etch!
11:17:56  * FauxFaux goes for lunch.
11:19:16  <petern> ...
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12:36:34  <glx> hello
12:37:01  <Brianetta> hello
12:38:01  <Sacro> argh prlog><
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13:11:39  <Belugas> hello
13:13:09  <petern> Sir Belugas.
13:13:48  <petern> Hmm...
13:13:50  <petern> $ ./autopilot.tcl
13:13:50  <petern> Segmentation fault
13:13:51  <petern> :(
13:15:12  <planetmaker> I wonder... autopilot here? :)
13:15:27  <Belugas> Lord Nelson, I salute you :)
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13:58:03  <TrueBrain> petern: you can segfault tcl? Sounds bad :p
13:58:20  <petern> Quite.
13:59:35  <Eddi|zuHause> wow... "have changed something"... that's a great commit message :p
14:00:04  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: try reading the VirtualBox SVN commit messages
14:00:07  <TrueBrain> you laugh your ass off :)
14:00:34  <TrueBrain> "PDM: More words." <- really .. :p
14:01:00  <Eddi|zuHause> +import; <- that's the change... why can't he tell that in the commit message?
14:01:57  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: people can't make good commit messages .. they just can't :p
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14:03:40  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like "implement feature XY variable AB" :Ì
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14:03:44  <Eddi|zuHause> :p
14:03:52  <TrueBrain> yeah, that annoys me too :p
14:08:57  <Belugas> buwhahahaha!!!!
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14:17:57  <glx> why? "implement feature XY variable AB" clearly tells what is now supported :)
14:18:20  <glx> it's important for newgrf devs
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14:22:34  <dih> 15:13 < petern> $ ./autopilot.tcl <- can i be of any help?
14:23:02  <dih> which autopilot are you using?
14:24:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14451 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/api/ai_sign.cpp signs.cpp): [NoAI] -Codechange: allow sign text to be set by CMD_PLACE_SIGN, so AISign:BuildSign() can be simplified
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14:27:41  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf? how can the line "return set([])" cause a "TypeError: an integer is required"?!?
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14:37:01  <petern> dih, from your SVN.
14:38:48  <petern> #0  0x00000000 in ?? ()
14:38:48  <petern> #1  0xb741cf14 in exp_create_commands () from /usr/lib/
14:38:48  <petern> #2  0xb741d057 in exp_init_most_cmds () from /usr/lib/
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14:39:13  <petern> $ tclsh
14:39:13  <petern> % package require Expect
14:39:13  <petern> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
14:39:15  <petern> Heh
14:39:41  <glx> so it's in libexpect
14:40:42  <Ammler> petern: you should use ap+:
14:40:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14452 /branches/noai/ (38 files in 4 dirs): [NoaAI] -Sync: with trunk r14434:14450
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14:41:47  <petern> It is.
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14:43:31  <petern> Hmm...
14:43:55  <petern> expect is built for tcl8.3, but tcl8.3 and tcl8.4 are installed.
14:44:13  <glx> use 8.3
14:44:41  <Ammler> should work with 8.5 too, afaik
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14:47:18  <petern> glx, i did ;)
14:47:31  <petern> Ammler, please shut up with your useless 'advice'.
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14:49:00  <Ammler> advice?
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14:52:01  <Ammler> well, we run ap wirth 8.4...
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15:13:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: certainly, you can use a tcl script with (almost) any tcl version, but a tcl module must be compiled for exactly that version
15:14:04  <Eddi|zuHause> (it's the same with python, and i assume any other scripting language that allows using native modules)
15:15:14  <dih> dont use 8.3 dont use 8.5
15:15:17  <dih> ;-)
15:15:21  <dih> i'll be back in an hour or so
15:16:00  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: depending on the API changes, yes ;)
15:17:38  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think i found my TypeError problem...
15:17:46  <Eddi|zuHause> reference counting is a bitch...
15:18:36  <TrueBrain> hehe
15:20:21  <Eddi|zuHause> PyInt_AsLong(PyObject_GetAttrString(python_entry, "action")) <- works
15:20:26  <Eddi|zuHause> PyInt_AsLong(PyTuple_GetItem(python_node, 0)) <- does not work
15:20:54  <Eddi|zuHause> spot the difference...
15:24:14  <yorick> pyobject_getattrstring returns a new reference
15:24:19  <yorick> pytuple_getitem doesn't
15:24:25  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly...
15:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause> PyInt_AsLong((temp=PyTuple_GetItem(python_node, 0), Py_INCREF(temp), temp)) <- hm, that looks ugly, is there a better solution that fits into one line?
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15:28:22  <yorick> PyInt_AsLong(PyObject_GetAttrString(python_entry, "action"))
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15:28:57  <yorick> or maybe PyInt_AS_LONG
15:29:17  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, quite irrelevant...
15:29:46  <Eddi|zuHause> speed optimisation is a non-issue
15:30:33  <yorick> why do you need it in one line?
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15:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause> because it's all part of a much bigger expression
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15:34:30  <Eddi|zuHause> never program sequential when you can program functional :p
15:37:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i should pay more attention to writing code i can actually analyse ;)
15:38:01  <yorick> what are you actually doing?
15:38:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i've had a line "x = (x,y)" in my code, and my points-to analysis totally barfs on that one
15:39:47  <Eddi|zuHause> when x and y are of type A in the expression, x is of type tuple(A), in the next iteration, x can have type A or tuple(A), so x can be of type tuple(tuple(A)) ... infinite recursion
15:39:48  <yorick> y, x = x, y :)
15:40:03  <Eddi|zuHause> that one is easy...
15:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a pessimistic analysis, so after that assignment, x can be both x and y
15:40:46  <yorick>   am = new math.AtithmeticManager().addOperand(new math.Operand((float) a).addOperand(new math.Operand((float) b); am.operator = new math.operators.Addition(); am.executeMathOperation()
15:40:48  <yorick>
15:40:54  <yorick> or just print a+b
15:40:59  <yorick> :)
15:41:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that is java at its best :p
15:41:29  <yorick> r*
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15:42:02  <yorick> classic OOP bloated example
15:43:40  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
15:43:43  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
15:44:04  <Sacro> B
15:44:05  <Sacro> J
15:44:06  <Sacro> A
15:44:07  <Sacro> R
15:44:07  <Sacro> N
15:44:11  <Sacro> I
15:44:13  <Sacro> BJARNI!
15:44:20  <yorick> S
15:44:21  <yorick> A
15:44:23  <yorick> C
15:44:24  <yorick> R
15:44:26  <yorick> O
15:44:28  <yorick> SACRO!
15:44:31  <Sacro> :D
15:44:32  <Sacro> Y
15:44:33  <Sacro> O
15:44:35  <Sacro> R
15:44:35  <Sacro> I
15:44:38  <Sacro> C
15:44:40  <Sacro> K
15:44:43  <Sacro> YORICK!
15:44:48  <yorick> B
15:44:50  <yorick> J
15:44:52  <yorick> A
15:44:53  <yorick> R
15:44:55  <yorick> N
15:44:57  <yorick> I
15:44:59  <yorick> BJARNI!
15:45:00  <Bjarni> you guys are wasting bandwidth
15:45:04  <glx> @kick Sacro
15:45:04  *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [glx]
15:45:10  <glx> @kick yorick
15:45:10  *** yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [glx]
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15:45:16  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:45:18  <Metalcore> @kick Metalcore
15:45:20  <Bjarni> you have a huge overhead since you only transmit a single byte in each package
15:45:22  <Metalcore> worth a try
15:45:33  <yorick> but...but...he started!
15:45:42  <petern> Sacro has a huge one
15:45:50  *** Metalcore was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [Looks like you asked for it :P]
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15:45:58  <Metalcore> success
15:46:01  <Metalcore> albeit, a bit laggy
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15:46:06  <Metalcore> you guys should work on that
15:46:15  <yorick> we need a faster bjarni
15:46:23  <Bjarni> err
15:46:38  <Bjarni> next you will try to overclock me, right?
15:47:08  * yorick gives bjarni some more power
15:47:19  * yorick gives bjarni a bigger cooler
15:48:05  <Bjarni> don't you think 700 V and liquid cooling is enough?
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15:53:50  <Eddi|zuHause> 700V? that's more than a tram takes :p
15:53:57  <Eddi|zuHause> our trams go on 600V i think
15:54:09  *** sulai [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
15:56:03  <Bjarni> I actually took the number from my locomotive
15:56:16  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:56:23  <Bjarni> but it goes without saying that it outranks trams anytime :D
15:58:06  * petern limits Bjarni to 1mA... see how much power you have now...
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15:58:42  <Bjarni> 1 mA*700V = 0,7W
15:58:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14453 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_town.hpp.sq: [NoAI] -Fix: someone updated the Squirrel-files wrongly ;)
15:58:54  <Brianetta> Our Metro uses 1500V
15:59:26  <Bjarni> 1500V is an old standard from when railroads used 750V engines
16:00:06  <Bjarni> so to get the voltage as high as possible in the catenary they used a voltage that worked on two engines in series
16:00:33  <Bjarni> remember this is from before they wanted to add transformers on trains (too inefficient, big and heavy)
16:00:35  *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:00:48  <Eddi|zuHause> what did they do when one engine broke?
16:00:52  <Bjarni> 1500 V is a pain today though
16:01:17  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: disengaged the bogie and drove on the engines on the other one ::)
16:01:28  <Bjarni> -:
16:01:58  <Bjarni> 1500V is usually used for EMUs, meaning you can have several powered bogies
16:01:59  <Eddi|zuHause> so that effectively means one broken down engine makes two engines go offline
16:02:07  <Bjarni> so losing power on one isn't such a big issue
16:02:26  <Bjarni> yeah, one engine would take the other one with it
16:03:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14454 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Remove: dropped support for AITransactionMode; this will never work in a stable way with OpenTTD, so it is more safe to remove it all together.
16:05:33  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:17:25  <Brianetta> Tyne & Wear Metro is EMU
16:18:14  <Bjarni> I can't find technical details on how powerful old 1500 V EMUs were
16:18:35  *** zach [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:18:51  <Bjarni> but the point is that they were usually short distance EMUs and that they had powered and unpowered units
16:19:04  <Bjarni> the powered ones usually had two powered bogies
16:19:27  <Brianetta> Each articulated unit on the Metro has three bogies.  The ones at the ends are powered, the one under the bendy is not.
16:19:47  <Bjarni> also if the train died, then they stopped and picked up the phone and called for a locomotive to pull them away
16:19:56  <Bjarni> in the beginning they usually got steam
16:20:00  <Brianetta> Metro run in pairs
16:20:21  <Brianetta> They *can* run up to four together, but most platforms on the system aren't long enough for more than two
16:20:48  <Brianetta> On Sundays they sometimes run singly to give a chance for maintenance
16:21:01  <Bjarni> usually it's the length of the platforms that limits the size of the trains
16:21:03  <Brianetta> Since the extension, they've been short of stock.  No extra stock was bought.
16:21:24  <Eddi|zuHause> whose bright idea was that? :p
16:21:33  <Brianetta> They get end-of-lifed in 2020.
16:21:42  <Bjarni> I bet it was a political agreement
16:21:45  <Brianetta> Eddi: It was a condition for funding the extension.
16:22:05  <Brianetta> 1500V dc EMU stock has to be build specially.  Not cheap.
16:22:13  <Brianetta> There was only about £5M to spend.
16:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> 5M? how many meters of new track are that?
16:22:40  <Brianetta> About 200
16:22:49  <Brianetta> which was what was needed to connect to BR track
16:22:59  <Brianetta> That track was electrified, and new stations built
16:23:07  <Brianetta> Ohm, there was more new track at the other end
16:23:29  <Brianetta> If they'd spent twice as much they could have had comprehensive coverage of the region
16:23:30  <ln> Bjarni: Do you know of an svn client for Mac which uses normal UTF-8 for commit messages?
16:23:30  <Bjarni> what about catenary on the BR tracks?
16:23:36  <Brianetta> Bjarni: There was none
16:23:56  <Eddi|zuHause> ln: how about putting that in the config file?
16:24:01  <Brianetta> Virgin wanted to run a Pendy down there, then discovered that incompatible wires were going to be present
16:24:09  <Bjarni> the politicians wanted to extend the 1500 V railroad system in Copenhagen a few years ago
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16:24:18  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: config file of what?
16:24:40  <Brianetta> The stretch of BR track the Metro rent costs them more than the maintenance of the rest of the network
16:24:44  <Bjarni> the problem was that they wanted to use tracks, that already had 25 kV catenary
16:24:45  <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know :p
16:25:24  <Brianetta> I hope that in 2020 they re-volt the whole thing
16:25:42  <Bjarni> ln: I use the svn client that comes with fink. Ever since they declared it stable (which was 4 years ago), it worked without any problems
16:25:44  <Brianetta> but I suspect the insulators aren't up to 25kV
16:26:12  <Bjarni> they can slowly start to replace to 25 kV catenary now
16:26:26  <Bjarni> you can always have 1500 V on 25 kV wires, but not the other way around
16:26:26  <Brianetta> very slowly
16:26:58  <Brianetta> They aren't subsidised.  The Metro is self-financing and borderline profitable as long as nothing breaks.
16:28:49  <Bjarni> in that case I can imagine the trains will still be in operation in 2030 :P
16:33:02  <Brianetta> yeah )-:
16:33:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't imagine immediately rotating out the entire rolling stock
16:33:54  <Brianetta> They were bought all in one go.
16:34:27  <Brianetta> Hmm, I think I should go home.
16:34:38  <Brianetta> Yes, home.
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16:47:59  *** ludde [] has joined #openttd
16:48:11  <ludde> hi
16:48:16  <yorick> ludde!
16:48:53  <ludde> sup
16:49:14  <Sacro|Laptop> hey ludde
16:50:19  <ludde> any [se, fi, no, gb, fr, it, es] users here? I got some invites to Spotify to share. A play-as-much-music-you-like music server I'm working on.
16:50:25  <ludde> server=service
16:50:28  <ln> it's the first time ludde was spotted joining the channel!
16:50:48  <ln> usually he does it secretly.
16:50:52  <ludde> i've been here a few times, but maybe not since the move to this network
16:50:58  <ludde> don't really remember
16:51:04  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: gb as in uk?
16:51:05  <yorick> why only se, fi, no, gb, fr, it, es?
16:51:10  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: yes
16:51:15  <Sacro|Laptop> ooh, me me me
16:51:19  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: email please?
16:51:29  <Sacro|Laptop>
16:51:35  <ln> ludde: you have, but usually people only detect you after some hours of idle time. :)
16:51:44  <ludde> :)
16:51:51  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: sent
16:52:04  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: danke :)
16:52:04  <ludde> ln :)
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16:52:25  <ludde> sulai: you want Spotify too?
16:52:57  <dih> [18:51]  <ludde> don't really remember <- i do
16:53:18  <yorick> I would like that, but it says "not available in your country"
16:53:20  <ludde> I saw the opengfx project, impressive
16:53:45  <ludde> yorick: yes. only those countries I mentioned. we don't have legal stuff done in the rest
16:53:57  <dih> did you see the 'impressively long' license discussion?
16:54:04  <ludde> dih: no
16:54:07  <ludde> dih: what about it?
16:54:14  <dih> it's impressively long
16:54:16  <ludde> dih: in the forum, somewhere?
16:54:32  <yorick> :-(
16:54:35  <dih> and the license had not been discussed before starting the project or accepting contributions
16:54:39  <Sacro|Laptop> ooh. show ludde the commit video
16:54:42  <Sacro|Laptop> tis awesome
16:54:47  <dih> yes, also in the graphics section
16:54:49  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: what do you mean?
16:55:00  <dih> yes - that is awesome
16:55:05  <ludde> commit video?
16:55:16  <ludde> show me
16:55:20  <dih> sec
16:55:28  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde:
16:55:44  <Sacro|Laptop> perhaps if you have cvs history that can be added at the beginning
16:55:55  <dih> hihi
16:56:20  <Bjarni> hello ludde
16:56:24  <Bjarni> welcome back :)
16:56:26  <dih> Sacro|Laptop, still would be missing a chunk between cvs and svn
16:56:37  <dih> like 900 revs
16:56:46  <dih> or 800 'n something
16:56:56  <yorick> 925
16:56:58  <yorick> I believe
16:57:03  <Sacro|Laptop> i thought Bjarni had some files
16:57:04  <ludde> hm, was it already 4 years ago
16:57:22  <ludde> hi Bjarni
16:58:55  <Bjarni> <ludde> hm, was it already 4 years ago <-- yeah... it would appear so
16:58:58  <yorick> @openttd commit 1
16:58:58  <DorpsGek> yorick: Commit by truelight :: r1 / (202 files in 13 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
16:58:59  <DorpsGek> yorick: Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
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16:59:20  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: did you install spotify?
16:59:33  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: no e-mail yet
16:59:35  <Bjarni> that is some really weird music in that video :s
16:59:37  <Prof_Frink> Sacro|Laptop: my friend did one of those for 1 month of KDE trunk.
16:59:41  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: really? hm
16:59:44  *** mortal` [] has joined #openttd
16:59:44  <Prof_Frink> Utter chaos.
16:59:52  <Sacro|Laptop> oh, i misspelt it
16:59:58  <Sacro|Laptop>
17:00:02  <Sacro|Laptop> laptop keyboard is borked
17:00:10  <ludde> sent
17:00:21  <Bjarni> Sacro|Laptop: either that or the user is borked :P
17:00:28  <TrueBrain> oh no, it is a ludde! :) Hi ludde :) How are you doing?
17:00:41  <glx> I'd say both are borked ;)
17:00:49  <Sacro|Laptop> Bjarni: pfft
17:00:56  <TrueBrain> and Bjarni too
17:00:56  <ludde> i'm good thanks :) I'm sharing Spotify invites right now
17:01:03  <ludde> TrueBrain: what country are you from?
17:01:10  <yorick> nl
17:01:12  <Bjarni> nl
17:01:14  <ludde> aw.
17:01:21  <Prof_Frink> Spotted flies?
17:01:22  <Bjarni> like most OTTD developers
17:01:25  <TrueBrain> ludde: more correctly, you are spamming this channel :p But it is you, so we forgive you ;)
17:01:38  <Bjarni>  <Sacro|Laptop> Bjarni: pfft <-- now the audio is borked too
17:01:48  <ludde> TrueBrain: sorry :)
17:02:07  <TrueBrain> :)
17:02:20  <TrueBrain> how is the service going?
17:02:26  <ludde> we released it the other day
17:02:43  <ludde> right now you still need an invite, unless you pay for a premium membership (with no ads)
17:03:03  <yorick> :'(
17:03:16  <TrueBrain> nice :)
17:03:26  <ludde> it's mostly known in sweden so far
17:03:29  <TrueBrain> so why are dutch people excluded? :p
17:03:32  <ln> do you have an unlimited number of invites?
17:03:37  <ludde> ln: more or less
17:03:47  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: got it :)
17:04:57  <TrueBrain> orudge: remind me, ever got in touch with domain owner?
17:05:09  <orudge> I did get in touch
17:05:11  <orudge> and then he disappeared
17:05:14  <orudge> and didn't reply to my e-mails
17:05:33  <ludde> my brother? :)
17:05:35  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: iPod support?
17:05:38  <TrueBrain> ludde: do you have any clue?
17:05:39  <orudge> ludde: yes
17:05:40  <orudge> I got a reply
17:05:44  <orudge> he said he's add me on MSN
17:05:44  <orudge> he never did
17:05:54  <ludde> orudge: i can ask him
17:05:57  <orudge> that'd be good
17:06:04  <Sacro|Laptop> oooh
17:06:08  <Sacro|Laptop> FLEETWOOD MAC :D
17:06:17  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: you like the app?
17:06:31  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: it's playing me fleetwood mac
17:06:31  <orudge> ah, Jonty was on about this spotify thing. I think at one point somebody mentioned tha
17:06:33  *** mortal [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:06:33  <Sacro|Laptop> love it <3
17:06:38  <orudge> that it was a ludde-created product
17:06:40  * orudge hasn't tried it though
17:06:48  <ludde> orudge: jonty?
17:06:49  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: written in XUL?
17:06:52  <orudge> jonty-comp
17:06:52  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: no
17:06:57  <orudge> he's on here usually I think
17:07:00  <orudge> hmm
17:07:01  <orudge> or maybe not
17:07:04  <orudge> he's in #tycoon anyway
17:07:04  <ludde> orudge: don't know who that is.. do you want an invite to Spotify?
17:07:09  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: how to close the prefs?
17:07:16  *** Purno [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:07:16  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: just click somewhere else in the side bar
17:07:18  <orudge> ludde: well, go on, then :)
17:07:19  <Sacro|Laptop> it feels like songbird
17:07:30  <ludde> orudge: ?
17:07:36  *** Purno [] has joined #openttd
17:07:40  <orudge> ludde:
17:07:50  <ludde> almost :)
17:08:04  * TrueBrain writes all those address in his little black book
17:08:10  <ludde> orudge: sent
17:08:11  <orudge> thanks
17:08:14  <orudge> TrueBrain: well, you already have mine ;)
17:08:27  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: if you click on the edit button, then onto the main screen, the edit button stays highlighted
17:08:31  <TrueBrain> haha
17:08:32  <TrueBrain> ssstttt :p
17:08:45  <Sacro|Laptop> same for file, playback, help
17:08:52  <Sacro|Laptop> hmm, how to scroll through albums
17:08:53  <ln> ludde: i guess i could try it too if you send an invite to
17:09:19  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: which edit button?
17:09:22  *** Mortal [] has joined #openttd
17:09:28  <Sacro|Laptop> File, Edit, Playback, Help
17:09:35  <ludde> ah, good catch
17:10:02  <Sacro|Laptop> it needs some way of flipping through albums
17:10:08  <Sacro|Laptop> like *coughs* coverflow
17:10:10  * Sacro|Laptop hides
17:10:14  <ludde> i like coverflow
17:10:20  <Sacro|Laptop> HELL YES
17:10:25  <TrueBrain> Sacro|Laptop: there is no place big enoguh for you to hide :p
17:10:29  <Sacro|Laptop> MASSIVE ATTACK - TEARDROP :D
17:10:31  <ludde> ln: sent
17:10:33  <ln> thanks
17:10:34  <TrueBrain> capslock
17:11:08  <Sacro|Laptop> NO< I@M HOLDING SHIFT DOWN
17:11:15  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: why?
17:11:30  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: cos this song is epic win
17:11:30  * TrueBrain counts his patient counter of the day ..
17:11:55  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: send me a link to it (dragdrop or copy)
17:12:03  <Sacro|Laptop> spotify:track:67Hna13dNDkZvBpTXRIaOJ
17:12:12  <ludde> ah, that one
17:12:28  <Sacro|Laptop> such an awesome track
17:12:43  <ludde> the sound sounds a bit cracked in the beginning
17:12:46  <TrueBrain> ludde: why are such few countries allowed?
17:12:49  <Sacro|Laptop> 15740K
17:12:50  <Sacro|Laptop> impressive
17:12:54  <ludde> TrueBrain: we don't have licensing with the rest
17:12:56  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: what is that?
17:13:00  <ludde> an artist?
17:13:12  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: no, the memory usage :p
17:13:17  <Sacro|Laptop> was seeing how light it is
17:13:22  <Sacro|Laptop> songbird is quite bulky
17:13:23  <ludde> of course, I made it ;)
17:13:24  <Sacro|Laptop> being in XUL
17:13:33  <TrueBrain> lol @ ludde :)
17:13:35  <ludde> I only make fast apps
17:13:37  <orudge> don't suppose Spotify is going to be integrated with ;) I guess in a way they perhaps compete.
17:13:44  * orudge likes having all his media players scrobble tracks
17:14:22  <TrueBrain> ludde: but when you pay, you can access it?
17:14:27  <ludde> TrueBrain: no.
17:14:37  <Sacro|Laptop> orudge: heh, i'm in a channel with the devs
17:14:40  <ludde> TrueBrain: you can't pay if you're not in one of those countries, iirc.
17:14:47  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: where is that?
17:14:47  <Sacro|Laptop> they went to Hull Uni
17:14:52  <TrueBrain> ludde: ah ;) The site is slightly unclear in that ..
17:15:02  *** mortal` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:15:03  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: i could go there and share them some invites ;)
17:15:09  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: #freeside on
17:15:27  <Sacro|Laptop> even
17:15:33  <dih> ludde: try to get permission for germany will you?
17:16:21  <ludde> hm.
17:16:24  <SpComb> <-- the OpenTTD project should try and find itself free slave labour as well
17:16:29  <ludde> dih: it's coming
17:16:35  <Sacro|Laptop> ludde: GPL? ;P
17:16:41  <ludde> Sacro|Laptop: the client? no
17:16:54  <Sacro|Laptop> hehe, aww
17:17:35  <TrueBrain> SpComb: very easy, but if it produces good quality code .....
17:17:48  <Sacro|Laptop> D:
17:18:23  *** mortal` [] has joined #openttd
17:18:26  <TrueBrain> right, back to NoAI ..
17:18:33  <SpComb> TrueBrain: yeah, you might end up with some highly variable levels of quality
17:19:22  <orudge> it'd be interesting to see what would happen if OpenTTD was a Google Summer of Code project
17:19:26  <orudge> and what sort of project ideas people might come up with
17:19:36  <TrueBrain> SpComb: I think it would more end up with VERY LOW level of quality :p
17:19:40  <Metalcore> we'd end up with Transport Empire
17:19:41  <orudge> generally, it seems (at least with Wine) that a couple of the SoC developers will end up staying on and contributing well
17:19:45  <orudge> whereas the others... might not
17:19:47  <TrueBrain> orudge: we once considered applying, I remember ..
17:20:10  <Metalcore> there's still a copyright issue, isn't there?
17:20:14  <orudge> well
17:20:16  <TrueBrain> last 2 times we were too late :p Hehe :)
17:20:17  <orudge> arguably, yes
17:20:24  <Metalcore> especially with the graphics/sound
17:20:32  <orudge> but then, other projects, such as ScummVM, have requirements for 3rd party content
17:20:34  *** Mortal [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:20:38  <orudge> and they're still in SoC
17:20:41  <SpComb> TrueBrain: well, there are some very good C++ coders doing said course, but yeah, there's probably a hundred not-so-good-C++ coders
17:20:56  <TrueBrain> the copyright of the graphics/sound is _very_ clear, and not an issue
17:21:00  <TrueBrain> (you have to buy the game yourself)
17:21:08  <orudge> besides
17:21:18  <orudge> with the 00 Google gives you, you're a bit stingy if you can't spare  for a copy of the game :p
17:21:20  <glx> the "problem" is the origin
17:21:26  <Prof_Frink> For the low, low price of £34.07!
17:21:26  <TrueBrain> SpComb: I see it in classes I take .. 2 people make code which is readable, the other 18 make code that is horrible
17:21:40  <SpComb> the exercise groups are also chosen randomly
17:21:51  * orudge needs to come up with some of publishing arrangement with Mr Sawyer to sell TT(D) at
17:21:54  <orudge> although
17:22:00  <orudge> I think krtaylor did actually enquire about something of that sort a few years ago
17:22:05  <orudge> funnily enough, Atari weren't interested
17:22:07  <SpComb> well, you pick three options, and people are put into groups based on how many points they got on the exercise things during the first half of the course
17:22:09  <TrueBrain> orudge: for that you need to go to Atari :)
17:22:09  <SpComb> so it's not entirely random
17:22:10  <orudge> they weren't even interested enough to see if they owned TT
17:22:30  <SpComb> "Mostly did it with one other guy, the other one tried to participate but didn\'t quite succeed, everything he did had to be redone... And he\'s the one who codes for work..." <-- but yeah... example feedback from the 2006 course
17:22:51  <TrueBrain> SpComb: I am already happy some dutch University is going to use NoAI for their class in AI :)
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17:23:00  <orudge> orly?
17:23:01  <orudge> interesting
17:23:02  * SpComb is going to be doing it with a couple of his friends
17:23:09  <SpComb> need to come up with some good project idea
17:23:09  <orudge> maybe I should suggest it to my professor who's doing the AI course :p
17:23:31  <SpComb> what does this "NoAI" consist of in this context, exactly?
17:23:36  <SpComb> the nail scripting language?
17:23:41  <TrueBrain> orudge: please do ;)
17:23:55  <TrueBrain> SpComb: an AI framework for OpenTTD, if that is what you are asking
17:24:12  <TrueBrain> in a C++ like language (Based on lua)
17:24:13  <SpComb> so they're using OpenTTD in their AI course?
17:24:18  <TrueBrain> NAIL will replace the current Squirrel yes
17:24:41  <TrueBrain> (if I can fix the final problems ... 80% done, but the final parts always take the longest :()
17:24:58  <SpComb> :( )
17:25:07  <TrueBrain> well, yes
17:25:24  <TrueBrain> how to write an AI for OpenTTD without OpenTTD :p
17:25:40  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Which uni?
17:25:47  <TrueBrain> blathijs: euh .. let me look up the post
17:25:53  <TrueBrain> it wasn't 100% sure or what ever, but okay
17:27:23  <TrueBrain> blathijs: URL in PM (dutch, so I didn't want to post it here)
17:27:31  <TrueBrain> doesn't mention with university .. oh well :p
17:27:54  <TrueBrain> that people at least consider it, is enoguh for me to claim that NoAI is a success :)
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17:39:54  <ln> it's playing music
17:40:01  <ludde> ln: great
17:41:15  <yorick> LordAzamath!
17:41:36  <LordAzamath> yorick!
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17:42:54  <ln> ludde: might i say it's maybe pointless to list possible birth years up to 2008 on the registration page, unless you are aiming at baby audience. :)
17:45:46  <TrueBrain> #1  0x0000000001d7f6b8 in ?? ()
17:45:46  <TrueBrain> #2  0x0000000000442078 in AIAccounting (this=0x44acd9)
17:45:51  <TrueBrain> somehow you never want to see such frame ..
17:46:27  <blathijs> at least it seems the rest of your stack is still intact?
17:46:38  <blathijs> I get them occasionally with ?? in the entire stack :-)
17:46:49  <TrueBrain> yeah, it just made an invalid dereference
17:47:17  <TrueBrain> then you fucked something up really good :)
17:47:28  <TrueBrain> in this case it is just a 'this->DoSomething();', where 'this' is not really valid :p
17:47:31  <blathijs> overflow writing into the stack I think
17:47:39  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... some random new guy joins an suddenly the whole channel goes crazy... might as well be a Tokio Hotel concert :p
17:47:50  <blathijs> TrueBrain: That shouldn't break the stack like that, yeah?
17:48:04  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you buy the tickets?
17:48:13  <blathijs> TrueBrain: s/yeah/right/
17:48:14  <TrueBrain> blathijs: it should ;)
17:48:23  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i doubt that :p
17:48:35  <TrueBrain> it starts executing at some random place .. what you expect :p
17:48:39  <blathijs> TrueBrain: I would say it should show DoSomething (this=0x0) then or something
17:48:41  <yorick> Eddi: s/new/old/
17:48:57  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Though if DoSomething is a virtual method, then it won't come that far I guess :-)
17:48:58  <TrueBrain> blathijs: this=0x44acd9 ;)
17:49:37  <TrueBrain> but okay, the exact code is not that, as then you are right
17:49:42  <TrueBrain> it is : this->instance->DoSomething()
17:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause> <ln> ludde: might i say it's maybe pointless to list possible birth years up to 2008 on the registration page, unless you are aiming at baby audience. :) <- better than the Error'd version which only features years since 2000 :p
17:50:52  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Ah, right :-)
17:51:23  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Though you might expect to get a segfault in AIAccounting then, not some random anonymous frame below that
17:51:33  <blathijs> but that's probably some C++ complexity :-)
17:51:34  <TrueBrain> blathijs: and I am pointer-fucking at an annoying level, so I should have expected errors like that :)
17:51:39  <blathijs> hehe
17:51:46  <TrueBrain> blathijs: that only happens when this is 0x0 ;)
17:52:07  <TrueBrain> as this is outside the first memory block, the normal segfault handling for 0x0 dereference doesn't catch it .. and the pointer is in fact very valid
17:52:19  <TrueBrain> just pointing to some random address within a valid class
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17:56:23  <blathijs> ah, right
17:57:16  <blathijs> so it can in fact find a valid (ie, readable) memory in the vtable to execute, but that's probably halfway some other method, or somewhere at a random memory location
17:57:21  <TrueBrain> as I said, I am doing very weird and dangarous stuff :p
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17:58:23  <TrueBrain> exactly :)
17:58:29  <TrueBrain> and then it jumps to some random location
17:58:34  <TrueBrain> after which the garbage starts :)
18:04:17  <TrueBrain> victory!! :)
18:04:56  <blathijs> :-)
18:07:39  <SmatZ> :-)
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18:15:09  <TrueBrain> blathijs: it sucks that you don't have much time lately, I sure could use your help on NAIL :p
18:15:11  <TrueBrain> hehehehe
18:17:22  <blathijs> heh :-)
18:17:29  <blathijs> I'm not much of an AI coder, though
18:17:40  <yorick> it's the ai language
18:17:53  <TrueBrain> #2  0x000000000041b0be in NAILLib_Array::len (this=0x0)
18:18:00  <TrueBrain> well, the AI part I leave to others too
18:18:08  <TrueBrain> I am just trying to design this VM, and it is failing on me currently :(
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18:53:18  <Phazorx> TB hola
18:53:57  <Bjarni> looks like I'm out of phase with Phazorx
18:54:07  <Bjarni> I didn't get what he tried to say :/
18:54:19  <TrueBrain> hi Phazorx :)
18:54:45  <Bjarni> heh, wasn't aimed at me
18:54:59  <Bjarni> we usually use full nicks in here (they highlight, you know)
18:55:17  <TrueBrain> strange, the world doesn't evolve around you ..
18:55:20  <TrueBrain> who would have guessed
18:55:32  <Bjarni> we better change that
18:55:38  * Bjarni starts to spin the chair
18:55:40  <Phazorx> Bjarni.phase.correction(abrakadabra)
18:56:04  <Bjarni> see, now the whole world rotates around me :D
18:56:33  <Phazorx> that's what we want you to think... at least
18:56:42  <Phazorx> these are not the droids you are looking for...
18:56:49  <Bjarni> wouldn't it be "Bjarni->Correct(PHASE);" ?
18:57:12  <Phazorx> Bjarni: if PHASE whould be a constant is there any need to correct it somehow?
18:57:37  <Bjarni> PHASE could be constant as an enum for what to correct
18:57:38  <Phazorx> sync(PHASE) would make more sence all around IMHO :)
18:58:03  <Bjarni> but too optimistic
18:58:14  <Bjarni> you see even the big commercial power companies can't do that
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18:58:28  <Phazorx> anyway something tells me there is enough sync achieved as is, at least in Assasins Creed terms :)
18:58:41  <Bjarni> Denmark is out of sync
18:59:01  <ln> ludde: there are impressively many songs available, i must say.
18:59:07  <Phazorx> somethign is always rotten in kingdom of danemark as one old man used to say...
18:59:12  <Bjarni> the power grid in the western part is 50 Hz like the eastern part, but they are out of phase so they aren't connected :s
18:59:39  <Phazorx> Bjarni: that is strange for that small of a country
18:59:43  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: AC is cool :)
18:59:46  <Phazorx> alsmast like japan
19:00:01  <Bjarni> the eastern part uses Swedish phase while the western part uses German phase
19:00:07  <Phazorx> TB it has first decent emersive out-of-game interface part
19:00:25  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: it is annoying to not use <tab>
19:00:40  <Phazorx> TB is shorter to type
19:00:46  <Phazorx> and i use lame opera built in client
19:00:55  <TrueBrain> Tr<tab>
19:00:58  <Phazorx> that reminds me i have to compile xchat or bx
19:01:02  <TrueBrain> by the lack of Tron, it should be enough :p
19:01:15  <Phazorx> heh okay, i'l try next time
19:01:26  <Bjarni> there is a railroad bridge between the east and west part of the country and the catenary is 50 Hz.... it has an unpowered section so the trains can move from one phase to another
19:01:34  <Phazorx> but imho - as long as you know who am i addressing that's gotta be good enough :)
19:01:42  <Bjarni> which means... Denmark phaseshift trains on a regular basis
19:01:59  <Phazorx> Bjarni: that is at least weirds i must say
19:02:06  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: but TB doesn't make it nice red :p
19:02:14  <Phazorx> but in case of major disaster only half of country goes out
19:02:15  <Bjarni> <Phazorx> but imho - as long as you know who am i addressing that's gotta be good enough :) <-- it fails to highlight though
19:02:43  <Bjarni> <Phazorx> but in case of major disaster only half of country goes out <-- we tried that.... too bad it was my half that lost power >_<
19:02:49  <Phazorx> Bjarni: highlighting is a mean to get attention if it is possible to get such by other means they are just as good :)
19:03:15  <Phazorx> Bjarni: on a bright side you got to see a sky full of stars :)
19:03:29  <Bjarni> no
19:03:34  <Phazorx> daytime?
19:03:47  <Bjarni> power was lost at 12:4x and restored like 4 hours later
19:04:10  <Phazorx> poor little europe can'teven have a major blackout nowadays
19:04:19  <Bjarni> naturally the failure turned out to be a mechanical failure in Sweden
19:04:43  <Bjarni> short circuiting power output from two nuclear powerplants at the same time
19:04:47  <Phazorx> in US eastern coast was out 16-20 hours in 2002 due to casscade powergrid failure
19:05:03  <Phazorx> arent these things are meant to never happen?
19:05:08  <Bjarni> it is
19:05:28  <Phazorx> or one failure overloads another station
19:05:35  <Phazorx> like it was in US
19:05:40  <Bjarni> the problem was that first one transformer failed and the Danish power grid tried to compensate, but so did the Swedish
19:06:01  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: and who is going to test such systems? :p
19:06:03  <Bjarni> The Swedish recovered and the emergency powerup disengaged
19:06:13  <Bjarni> and before it was ready to activate again the other transformer failed
19:06:25  <Bjarni> it all happened within 1-2 sec
19:06:27  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: sure... pixiedust and crossed fingers are far much more reliable than tests
19:06:48  <Phazorx> Bjarni: few lightbulbs might have not survived..
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19:08:11  <Bjarni> I can remember I was scheduled to some computer work (should learn how to use a new program) from 13-17
19:08:33  <Bjarni> we kind of decided to just go home when the radio started talking about hours before power was restored
19:09:17  <Phazorx> was g actualy go, or traffic lights were working?
19:09:56  <Bjarni> everything was dead
19:10:04  <Bjarni> or on battery power
19:10:56  <Bjarni> must have sucked to have used the train at that time
19:11:04  <Bjarni> and the power to the catenary just died
19:11:24  <Bjarni> specially if you were in the tunnel under Copenhagen... it got pretty dark :P
19:11:55  <Belugas> of course, lights in tunnels are not yet implemented
19:11:56  <Phazorx> nice afternoon adventure :)
19:12:13  <Belugas> hem.. i meant signals...
19:12:28  * Belugas goes back to hell@work
19:12:40  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: ever heard of emergency lights? Work pretty long ..
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19:12:48  <TrueBrain> Belugas: good luck
19:12:53  <Bjarni> yeah
19:12:57  <Bjarni> but they are kind of dim
19:13:32  <Phazorx> annoying orange flash in many km tunnel of walking must be something you hope to see when power goes out :)
19:13:57  <Bjarni> they didn't install any orange light in that tunnel
19:14:05  <TrueBrain> bah, the vsync of my screen is wrong ...
19:14:11  <Bjarni> hehe
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19:20:37  <yorick> heeh
19:20:52  <yorick> got cindini down to 4.10 MB :)
19:21:00  <yorick> compressed with OTTL
19:21:12  <Bjarni> you cared about data size?
19:21:27  <yorick> if I need to download it in multiplayer, I care, yes
19:21:44  <Bjarni> I mean it's not like it matters if it's 4,1 or 4,2 on modern hardware
19:21:54  <yorick> no, 4.1 or 5.2
19:22:04  <Bjarni> what is cindini anyway? :)
19:22:12  <yorick> it's the nice map project
19:22:21  * TrueBrain looks at his 100 mbit/sec connection and thinks: I don't see the problem
19:22:22  <Bjarni> ohh
19:22:32  <yorick>
19:22:40  <Bjarni> yorick is on a 56k modem
19:22:43  <yorick> TB: the problem is the server upload
19:22:46  <Bjarni> at least he acts like he is
19:22:52  * TrueBrain looks at his 100 mbit/sec connection and thinks: I don't see the problem
19:22:54  <yorick> hehe, the server thinks it is
19:23:11  <TrueBrain> any server not on at least a 10 mbit/sec, is not worth calling a server :)
19:23:29  <TrueBrain> and I don't care if joining takes 4 or 5 seconds
19:23:48  <yorick> you'd be surprised
19:23:55  <yorick> tt-forums has attachement limit
19:24:15  <TrueBrain> I doubt I will be
19:24:17  <Bjarni> I know
19:24:25  <yorick> I think it is 5 mb
19:24:26  <Bjarni> it was 4 mb the last time I checked
19:24:27  <TrueBrain> now we start talking abou tt-forums
19:24:28  <TrueBrain> weird
19:24:37  <yorick> yes, I am all weird
19:24:42  <Bjarni> but I fail to see the connection
19:24:54  <Bjarni> your server will not suffer from the forum limitation
19:25:01  <TrueBrain> I also wonder what good it does for you to be able to compress something really small
19:25:05  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD still uses its own compression
19:25:20  <yorick> I cannot put 5.2mb maps on the forums, but 4.1 should be possible
19:25:26  <yorick> *cough*
19:25:39  <yorick> "loading LZMA save"
19:26:43  <Phazorx> hmm... still got a silly question.. trying to revive oldtracks... from -250 revisions patch... and it complains about _opt.landscape being out of scope... while trying to determine map/save settings... was that majorly changed since 0.6 ?
19:26:58  <yorick> the name
19:27:36  <petern> Phazorx, you were answered this morning.
19:27:36  <TrueBrain> wasn't _opt merged with _settings or so?
19:28:01  <Phazorx> petern: hmm... sorry perhaps i went dsync
19:28:33  <yorick> no, that's openttd
19:28:57  <Phazorx> i missed the answer besides what dih said....
19:29:33  <Phazorx> hi petern btw, i assume you are the peter :)
19:31:42  <Phazorx> .
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19:38:40  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: so is _opt.landscape now _settings.landscape ?
19:40:07  <Ammler> :-)
19:40:13  <petern> check the change log
19:40:14  <Ammler> yes he is THE peter
19:40:31  <Phazorx> peter from when?
19:40:39  <Prof_Frink> 1138
19:40:40  <Phazorx> Ammler: i can ee that now :)
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20:10:39  <TrueBrain> boring in here
20:10:58  <Belugas> come in here, fun is garanteed!
20:11:39  * TrueBrain books a flight
20:12:28  <Eddi|zuHause> <Phazorx> somethign is always rotten in kingdom of danemark as one old man used to say... <- that's weird, we use the exact same phrase... "Es it etwas faul im Staate DÀnemark."
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20:13:52  <Belugas> ho... good... you have found my apple... i was looking at it for a month now!
20:14:42  * TrueBrain thinks Belugas lost it
20:15:25  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: ever read Shakespeare?
20:15:44  <Belugas> hi haha@!!  WWEEEEEEE!!!! Blublublublub!!
20:15:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Phazorx: never heard of that one... :p
20:16:14  * TrueBrain feeds Belugas some sanity
20:17:13  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: that's a bit of common general knowledge for ya
20:17:32  <Phazorx> considering i am russian  you SHOUKD know that :)
20:18:00  <Eddi|zuHause> no... we have Goethe, we don't need no stinkin shakespeare
20:19:15  <Eddi|zuHause> "Das Land der Dichter und Denker"
20:19:43  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: why do you say such things about Denmark :S
20:21:51  <Phazorx> last time i checked Goethe was german...
20:22:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni is just out of phase :p
20:22:24  <TrueBrain> as always
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20:24:32  <Bjarni> thank you :P
20:24:44  <Bjarni> would you mind answering my question? :)
20:25:17  <Eddi|zuHause> random fact of the day: in all the localized versions of Monopoly, the streets are named after an important town, such as London or New York, except in the german version, where the street names are totally generic
20:25:38  <TrueBrain> germans sucks
20:25:41  <Bjarni> heh
20:25:48  <Phazorx> anyway....
20:26:01  <Bjarni> The Danish version has names of roads in Copenhagen (go figure)
20:26:21  <Bjarni> we lack the railroads though so it has 4 ferry lines instead
20:26:27  <HerzogDeXtEr> german is a great language
20:26:29  <Phazorx> petern, or anyone else what wexactly did i miss relevant to my _opt.landscape question before that i should know while truing to fix oldtracks patch?
20:26:47  <Prof_Frink> The Bournemouth and Poole version has the names of areas in bournemouth and poole.
20:27:06  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the reason for that is that when Monopoly was originally translated to german, it DID use street names of Berlin
20:27:11  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: just scan the current code, and find your answer :)
20:27:15  <TrueBrain> you are clever enough for that ;)
20:27:31  <Phazorx> time is something i dont have
20:27:33  <Eddi|zuHause> but that was in the 1930's so the roads were called "Goebbels Road" and stuff
20:27:43  <Bjarni> :D
20:27:53  <Phazorx> one of reasons to ask questions is to save time in case if others already did necessary research
20:27:59  <Phazorx> which is exactly the case here
20:28:04  <Eddi|zuHause> so that got kinda unpopular after the war :p
20:28:13  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: grep landscape src/*
20:28:15  <TrueBrain> most likely shows you :)
20:28:17  <HerzogDeXtEr> hey, when will the bug fixed, what is elemiating all industries on big maps? thats pretty anoying
20:28:17  <TrueBrain> I myself have no idea
20:28:21  <Bjarni> what about the railroads?
20:28:46  <glx> Phazorx: check settings.cpp, they are all there
20:29:05  <glx> you can also take a look in a recent openttd.cfg
20:29:20  <Phazorx> define recent?
20:29:34  <glx> since the change
20:29:35  <Bjarni> head revision ;)
20:29:36  <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, everything was replaced by generic names, so the railways are called "north station", "main station" etc.
20:29:44  <Phazorx> i'm into early 14XXX now followin dih's suggestion
20:30:24  <Eddi|zuHause> the roads are called "Goethe-, Schiller- and Lessingstraße", which are a pretty safe bet in practically any german city
20:30:26  * Bjarni notes not to play monopoly in German
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20:35:58  <Eddi|zuHause> <- this is the german layout
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20:36:56  <Eddi|zuHause> although the version i have is not in €
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20:40:08  <HerzogDeXtEr> have you ever seen a street with the name "seestraße" ?
20:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause> google says there is one in berlin
20:41:04  <HerzogDeXtEr> hmm
20:41:40  <HerzogDeXtEr> there is also a street named "Unter der BrÃŒcke" (in english: under the bridge) :D
20:41:55  <HerzogDeXtEr> this would be a good street for monopoly
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20:43:34  <Phazorx> crashed :(
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20:44:38  <Phazorx> on intro screen pbs.cpp:83
20:45:34  <Phazorx> assert((GetTileTrackStatus(tile, TRANSPORT_RAIL, 0) & TrackToTrackBits(t)) != 0)
20:45:42  <Phazorx> 14412
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20:46:25  <Phazorx> can .cfg make a difference in that aspect?
20:46:37  <Phazorx> since i use very old one
20:46:41  * Belugas goes home -ciao ciao
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20:47:03  <TrueBrain> night Belugas
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20:56:41  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I want a nice action movie, but I can't find any :(
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21:09:44  <ln> Bjarni: what's the Obj-C way of opening a file?
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21:26:13  <TrueBrain> hmm .. if one would like to write an application these days with a clear GUI .. how would one do that?
21:27:28  <Eddi|zuHause> don't...
21:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd stay away from GUIs as far as possible
21:28:03  <TrueBrain> tnx for not helping Eddi|zuHause
21:28:09  <TrueBrain> what a helpful bunch you guys became ..
21:28:26  <Eddi|zuHause> you're welcome
21:28:41  <TrueBrain> if that was an option, I would not have asked what I asked .. so still not helping
21:29:11  <TrueBrain> and remind me to make an OpenTTD version without GUI :p
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21:31:00  <TrueBrain> I expected more from you Eddi|zuHause :(
21:31:17  <Eddi|zuHause> no really, i'm the worst guy to ask with a GUI
21:31:40  <TrueBrain> then just say you don't know ;)
21:31:50  <TrueBrain> clearly I have little to no knowledge about it too, still .. I need to know :)
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21:38:32  <glx> TrueBrain: I'd use wxwidgets
21:38:41  <Volley> TrueBrain: uh... define clear GUI
21:38:46  <TrueBrain> glx: any good?
21:39:03  <TrueBrain> lately I read a lot about XUL, and I wonder if that isn't a bit .. too heavy :p
21:39:21  <glx> it's a c++ cross-platform GUI framework
21:39:58  <glx> can be used from python too
21:40:02  <TrueBrain> Volley: well, it should allow neat stuff, not the win3.11 style :p
21:40:09  <TrueBrain> glx: tnx, will look at it :)
21:40:28  <glx> uses native look of the system
21:40:49  <Volley> i still don't really know what you look for :)
21:41:16  <TrueBrain> still it works well cross platform? I mean, the sizes of things stay the same? :p
21:41:57  <glx> sizes may be different but proportions and relative positions are kept
21:42:11  <TrueBrain> Volley: Qt, wxwidgets, XUL, ...
21:42:30  <glx> but usually sizes are the same
21:42:43  <glx> as you set them in the code :)
21:43:10  <ln> but you really need to use sizers.
21:43:19  <TrueBrain> hehe, cool :)
21:43:32  <glx> ln: of course, sizers are the best things
21:44:16  <glx> and XRC is a nice thing too (but I still need a good free XRC editor)
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21:50:17  <Volley> well, i didn't do much coding recently, but after painful experiences with java i would propably try wxwidgets for crossplatform apps ... and eventually have a look at qt/kde coding somewhen ...
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21:58:15  <TrueBrain> how nice .. songbird can, via gstreamer, work over esd .. but nowhere they tell me how :(
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22:01:53  <ln> 20:10 < Sacro|Laptop> MASSIVE ATTACK - TEARDROP :D  <--- yeah, sounds very familiar
22:02:46  <TrueBrain> glx: wxwidgets mixes the layout with the code, right?
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22:06:26  <Sacro> ln: so it should
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22:24:28  <fjb> With cargodest, if an industry temporarly doesn't accept a cargo and a train arrives at the associated station it still drops the cargo there? I see the paiment in yellow color and the cargo vanishes. It doen't get listed at the station. Where does the cargo go? Is it lost?
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23:22:48  <glx> <TrueBrain> glx: wxwidgets mixes the layout with the code, right? <-- mainly in ctor
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23:52:06  <laz0r> hi, can i somehow edit a openttd savegame with the scenario editor?
23:52:20  <laz0r> or convert a savegame to a scneario?
23:53:10  <XeryusTC> rename it to .scn
23:53:30  <FauxFaux> Snikcer.
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23:55:29  <laz0r> uh, thats easy enough, thanks guys

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