Log for #openttd on 24th October 2008:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:11  * Belugas just gave a test run on OpenGfx
00:00:22  <Belugas> one comment : why is it so dark??
00:00:43  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody could ever properly answer that question...
00:00:43  <Belugas> another comment : hell of a job been done!
00:00:47  <ln> we are living dark times
00:01:04  <Belugas> ln, not in OpenTTD.  and this is stupid
00:02:00  <Eddi|zuHause> ln: well, that is one explanation... others involved people in foreign countries, or foreign people in germany, asking for something that could mean direction to the station
00:02:45  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, any time, someone asks something that you can't understand, you give him direction to the staion, as that's the most likely place he would get what he wants
00:08:00  <ln> this nerd guy in prison break is damn annoying.
00:08:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i have not actually watched prison break
00:08:44  <ben_goodger> no doubt
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00:09:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i once recorded season 1, but i somehow lost it...
00:09:08  <ben_goodger> can anyone advise me about pan-european value added tax law? :P
00:09:15  *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
00:09:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Mehrwertsteuer...
00:09:50  <welshdragon> whoops... crashed xchat :(
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00:10:19  <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, it is illegal to give legal advise if you are not a certified lawyer
00:11:04  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: so you can't say "you should call the police" when someone breaks your neighbor's windows?
00:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> ln: that's not legal advise
00:11:43  <eMJay> Belugas: I gave it a shot just now, the colours are very saturated I think
00:11:46  <ben_goodger> well, I don't want actual legal advice
00:11:53  <eMJay> Belugas: OpenGFX that is
00:12:24  <ben_goodger> my accountants are stumped, however :(
00:12:50  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: oreally. :) hm, but is that like ... if you do give legal advice, the one you adviced can sue you, or the bundesrepublik can sue you?
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00:13:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that...
00:13:36  <eMJay> ln: I would assume that the one you gave advice could sue you
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00:14:19  <Eddi|zuHause> eMJay: not only that, also someone witnessing that action can sue, or call the police...
00:14:30  <ben_goodger> oh dear.
00:16:26  <ln> i don't know the legal terms in english, but there are basically two kinds of crimes over here; ones where the victim has to actively do something to get the suspect sued (such as theft), and ones where the government will sue the criminal regardless of what the victim wants (e.g. murder)
00:16:46  <ben_goodger> ah
00:16:53  <ben_goodger> suing isn't related to crime here
00:16:54  <ln> errr.. murder is not a particularly good example of *what the victim wants*
00:16:58  <eMJay> when you say "sue" do you mean "prosecute"?
00:17:02  <ben_goodger> things you sue for are called torts
00:17:10  <ln> actually yes, i probably mean "prosecute".
00:17:14  <ben_goodger> yes
00:17:23  <ben_goodger> I have no idea what our terms for those are
00:17:56  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's actually not much different from other laws, like you have to be a certified plumber to fix the plumbing
00:18:27  <Eddi|zuHause> or at least be employed by or employ one
00:18:38  <ben_goodger> ...but does it actually criminalise it or just make you liable for it?
00:19:20  <ben_goodger> you can be sued for giving faulty advice here [liability], but you can be fined for giving driving instruction for money without a license [crime]
00:19:27  <eMJay> In OpenTTD related discussion, what does contain?
00:19:41  <ln> some sounds, i suppose.
00:19:48  <Eddi|zuHause> eMJay: the sound effects
00:19:49  <ln> even all the sounds.
00:20:03  <Eddi|zuHause> like the train whistle and stuff
00:20:26  <eMJay> is that it?
00:20:37  <Eddi|zuHause> do you want it to be more?
00:20:53  <eMJay> no, just wanted to be sure
00:21:09  <ben_goodger> right.
00:21:18  <Eddi|zuHause> left.
00:21:34  <eMJay> so contains the sounds for [open]ttd
00:21:51  <ben_goodger> actually, the opposite of that usage of "right" is "I don't understand"
00:22:34  <Eddi|zuHause> you can safely assume that i used the "wrong" usage on purpose :p
00:22:51  <ln> Bjarni: sover du redan?
00:23:02  <ben_goodger> very well, carry on
00:23:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni is sober? since when?
00:23:47  <Eddi|zuHause> or do you mean "saufen", which is kind of the opposite? :p
00:24:06  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: ich meine "sova = schlafen"
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00:33:17  <ln> wkz
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00:33:48  <Eddi|zuHause> no german would ever say that :p
00:34:37  <Eddi|zuHause> in the best case, they would say "webÀÀ" :p
00:37:55  <ben_goodger> good morning
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00:38:53  <ln> earth to Bjarni, over
00:42:09  <ln> now let's see, the international openttd meeting yet to be arranged, isn't it?
00:42:41  <Sacro> Yeah
00:42:45  <Sacro> lets have it in England
00:42:48  <Sacro> like the tt-meets
00:43:03  <ln> Sacro: but Bjarni doesn't travel to England.
00:43:19  <Sacro> even better!
00:43:45  <ln> well, england's fine for me.
00:44:08  <eMJay> where about?
00:44:32  <ln> buckingham palace.
00:44:55  <Sacro> aye, why not
00:46:11  <Bjarni> <ln> Bjarni: will you arrange an international openttd meeting in copenhagen? <-- no. I wouldn't know where it could be placed
00:46:41  <Bjarni> there are some ok places it could be, but they all cost money :(
00:47:42  <Bjarni> to be honest I wouldn't know there to host such a thing
00:47:51  * Sacro wants to go
00:47:57  * Sacro offers the use of his living room
00:48:02  <Bjarni> maybe in the train repair shop... it's big enough
00:48:13  <Bjarni> but it lacks both computers and an internet connection
00:48:16  <Sacro> I'll even buy biscuits
00:48:23  <ln> who needs computers and internet connection
00:48:29  <eMJay> Is there any use of strings or templates in openttd?
00:48:31  <Sacro> we have wifi here
00:48:33  <Sacro> eMJay: yes
00:48:42  <Sacro> you can't really output without strings
00:49:01  <Bjarni> then what is the meeting about?
00:49:04  <eMJay> i mean string as in the class, not char*
00:49:10  <ln> Bjarni: will you travel to england or germanyland for such a meeting?
00:49:29  <Bjarni> I'm not convinced I would walk to the house next door yet
00:49:33  <ln> Bjarni: it's about meeting the people behind those nicks.
00:49:40  <Bjarni> since I haven't got a clue to what you are trying to do
00:49:50  <Sacro> Bjarni: rape
00:49:52  <Sacro> *coughs*
00:49:56  <Sacro> tea and cakes ven
00:49:59  <Sacro> *even
00:50:10  <Bjarni> I know what Sacro intends to do
00:50:34  <Bjarni> I don't think I'm willing to leave the country
00:50:35  <Sacro> Bjarni: lots of cuddles
00:50:42  <Bjarni> at least not at the moment
00:50:45  <Bjarni> I have stuff to do
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00:51:37  <ln> Bjarni: surely you have time to leave the country for 2 or 3 days.
00:52:02  <Bjarni> when would that be?
00:52:30  <ln> dunno. Q1/Q2 next year, or so.
00:52:43  <Bjarni> hmm
00:52:50  <Bjarni> I don't know
00:53:01  <Bjarni> but at least I can't this year
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00:57:04  <ln> let's meet at Tron's front yard but let's not tell him in advance.
00:57:06  <eMJay> Ok, so are there any generics/templates in use in openttd?
00:57:21  <eMJay> like vector or hashmap or something?
00:57:35  <Bjarni> ln: while it could be cool to do, I would prefer to survive
00:57:42  <Sacro> eMJay: look at YAPF
00:58:02  <Bjarni> and in order to survive, I need sleep
00:58:04  <Bjarni> goodnight
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00:58:27  <Sacro> ln: what is "what time is it" in french?
00:58:35  <Sacro> Qu'elle uhr est ille"
00:58:38  <Sacro> sounds right
00:58:45  <Sacro> but I'm sure uhr is german
00:58:52  <ln> sounds a mixture of german and french
00:59:27  <ln> well, doesn't matter, probably the correc question is pronounced the same way in any case.
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01:05:08  <ln> Sacro:
01:05:10  <ln> Quelle heure est-il?
01:05:39  <Sacro> ah yes :)
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01:05:42  <ln> feel free to adjust spelling to what seems best.
01:05:51  <Sacro> Oh I do :)
01:06:03  <Sacro> 273	6/1/44	60	Clerk instructed to write to the Commanding Officer of the U.S. Forces stationed in the village drawing attention to the excessive speed with which the coloured troops drove and failure to comply to traffic signals.
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01:18:56  <welshdragon> - number 8 - how am i meant to make it go higher?
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01:19:05  <Sacro> fail
01:20:10  <welshdragon> you do it then
01:20:37  <welshdragon> bloody impossible to build a machine, once you've done it, post a screenie
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01:29:45  * Sacro watches Woof on youtube
01:40:05  * welshdragon goes to sleep
01:45:07  <eMJay> welshdragon: I finished higher
01:55:50  <Sacro> Heh
01:55:55  <Sacro> 6pt font ftw :D
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02:37:00  <Belugas> eMJay, i don't know if it's the color saturation, but yes, it's darkish
02:37:52  <NukeBuster> you are still able to turn trains while the game is paused...
02:38:02  <NukeBuster> is that intended?
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02:39:56  <Belugas> i think so. why not?
02:40:12  <NukeBuster> wouldn't that lead to desyncs when one does that while a new player is joining?
02:41:56  <Belugas> i don't know
02:41:59  <Belugas> but i doubt
02:42:19  <NukeBuster> if you'd turn it on the right moment... would that matter for the game?
02:42:21  <Belugas> i think (correct if i'm wrong) that commands are still passed
02:42:29  <Belugas> try it, you will see :)
02:42:36  <NukeBuster> also to the incoming client?
02:42:51  <NukeBuster> next time someone joins i'll turn a train around
02:44:13  <NukeBuster> probably easy to fix?
02:48:20  <Belugas> truely, i have no clue.
02:48:30  <Belugas> i'm not in networking logic
02:48:51  <Belugas> but, to say if it's easy to fix, one has to prove that it is broken ;)
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02:52:05  <glx> IIRC commands are queued during the download
02:53:35  <Belugas> mmh... true... i think i remember that
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03:03:15  <Belugas> and if it takes too long, the game cannot empty the queue fast enough and you're rejected
03:03:18  <Belugas> or something like that
03:07:46  <eMJay> NukeBuster: I think you would have to be damn fast...
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04:45:43  <eMJay> hmmmm, I hope my boss doesn't mind me trawling through the openttd code instead of coding for him all day :P
04:48:33  <Brianetta> he might
04:50:05  <eMJay> unfortunately, if he knew, he probably would mind
04:52:57  <eMJay> hmmmm
04:53:16  <eMJay> segmentation fault is when I try to access memory that isn't allocated to my program right?
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07:54:49  <dih> morning ladies
07:54:53  <dih> i just realized something
07:55:14  <dih> as it's not called 'patches' but 'settings'
07:55:23  <dih> would it not make sense to change some console commands?
07:55:38  <dih> e.g. list_patches, patch <setting> [<value>]
07:55:53  <dih> list_settings and set <setting> [<value>]
07:56:25  <dih> kinda some consistency missing in that place :-D
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08:02:10  <Celestar> morning
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08:05:58  * Celestar can't help but notice that his 2.5" external USB driver manages to choke the 16-disk Fibre-Channel RAID6 array of his fileserver.
08:06:02  <Celestar> s/driver/drive
08:40:15  <SpComb> choke?
08:40:55  <Gekz> slow it down unbearably I'd imagine
08:41:17  <Celestar> aye
08:43:05  <Gekz> it'd be like
08:43:19  <Gekz> and the USB is like "Slow down, I'm old"
08:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause> "'n alter Mann ist doch kein D-Zug"
09:10:28  <Eddi|zuHause> why the hell, when i search in google for "newgraphicsspecs", i get any page, except the newgraphicsspecs wiki page?
09:16:15  <Celestar> :P
09:16:38  <Celestar> Gekz: the thing is, it's the other way round. the USB drive is fast, the RAID seems slow
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09:38:19  <NukeBuster|laptop> What information do you need for debugging a desync error?
09:38:36  <NukeBuster|laptop> At least a save, what else?
09:40:03  <Eddi|zuHause> desync errors are the most evil to debug, as it is necessary for server and clients to join at different times
09:40:24  <Eddi|zuHause> so complete instructions to reproduce are a must
09:40:44  <NukeBuster|laptop> dih's nightly server is currently constantly desynching
09:40:49  <NukeBuster|laptop> got a save game already
09:40:58  <NukeBuster|laptop> and when you join instant desync
09:41:08  <Eddi|zuHause> like "start the server, let the game run for exactly 10 days, then start the client, wait for exactly 1 day, and you see a desync"
09:41:26  <NukeBuster|laptop> hmm should try that with the save when I'm home...
09:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause> joining a running server will not help
09:41:49  <NukeBuster|laptop> you need to compare debug data?
09:41:50  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to reproduce it by starting a new server, and then desyncing
09:42:11  <NukeBuster|laptop> loading a game won't work?
09:42:47  <Eddi|zuHause> loading a game can work, but you have to let the server run without client until the desync reason occurs
09:43:31  <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: with or withouth cargodest?
09:44:14  <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: there's quite some information on the wiki on how to debug a desync problem
09:44:48  <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop:
09:45:02  <NukeBuster|laptop> latest nightly
09:45:12  <NukeBuster|laptop> shouldn't have cargodest
09:45:18  <NukeBuster|laptop> or didn't have it turned on
09:45:30  <Eddi|zuHause> NukeBuster|laptop: the problem is, to debug a desync, you need to restart the server many times over with the same savegame, and the desync must happen always at the same time
09:45:41  <NukeBuster|laptop> nasty
09:45:42  <NukeBuster|laptop> :P
09:46:02  <NukeBuster|laptop> are all actions timestamped?
09:46:36  <NukeBuster|laptop> or tick stamped perhaps?
09:48:55  <Celestar> normally, they're not recorded at all (=
09:49:04  <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: the first thing you need to understand is what a desync is
09:50:06  <Celestar> so NukeBuster|laptop , what is a desync?
09:51:59  <NukeBuster|laptop> a desync is a client that does something else then what the server does
09:52:18  <NukeBuster|laptop> some where in time the client took a wrong turn the
09:52:30  <NukeBuster|laptop> minus the
09:53:01  <NukeBuster|laptop> so i thought to compare actions and check for differences
09:54:43  <NukeBuster|laptop> ?
09:54:54  <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: a desync is when the random number generator on the client returns a different result than the one on the server.
09:55:16  <Celestar> thus causing the game states to diverge
09:55:50  <NukeBuster|laptop> so the random seeds are usually given out by the server?
09:56:04  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, every 100 ticks or so
09:56:17  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: they're compared every so-and-so ticks
09:56:22  <Celestar> not given out
09:56:25  <NukeBuster|laptop> so in a 100 tick timespan a desync could occur
09:57:00  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the reason for the desync is often very long before the desync actually occurs
09:57:14  <NukeBuster|laptop> what if you would simply rejoin the game on a desync
09:57:14  <Celestar> but can be milliseconds ago.
09:57:25  <NukeBuster|laptop> or would that be annoying?
09:57:25  <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: on join, the seeds are exchanged
09:57:43  <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: we've opted not to do this, because we'd not get any desync reports then
09:57:55  <Celestar> a desync is a *bug*
09:58:02  <Celestar> which needs to be fixed
09:58:09  <Celestar> rejoining is a workaround, not a solution
09:58:11  <NukeBuster|laptop> yeah thats true
09:58:21  <Eddi|zuHause> many desyncs cannot be resovled by just rejoining the server
09:58:33  <NukeBuster|laptop> lets hope dih saves seperate autosaves :)
09:58:54  <NukeBuster|laptop> its probably due to 1000 trians
09:58:57  <NukeBuster|laptop> trains
09:59:27  <NukeBuster|laptop> and signals every tile
09:59:42  <Celestar> nope
10:00:09  <Celestar> if the client or the server is overwhelmed, that would cause a disconnect
10:00:15  <NukeBuster|laptop> ok
10:00:44  <NukeBuster|laptop> what about the ability to turnaround trains while in pause?
10:00:57  <Celestar> what about it?
10:01:00  <NukeBuster|laptop> there were alot of traffic jams on the server
10:01:03  <NukeBuster|laptop> would that matter
10:01:10  <Celestar> it shouldn't
10:01:25  <Celestar> it shouldn't cause the gamestates to differ
10:01:29  <Eddi|zuHause> "it shouldn't" is why it's a bug ;)
10:01:35  <NukeBuster|laptop> if someone joins and in pause trains turn around because they waited to long for a signal
10:01:35  <Celestar> ;)
10:01:39  <NukeBuster|laptop> and not 1 but alot
10:01:58  <Celestar> then the game states on all clients (and the server) should be identical
10:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause> NukeBuster|laptop: throwing around wild theories won't help debugging
10:02:24  <NukeBuster|laptop> I know, but I just wanted to know if that could lead to a desync
10:02:39  <NukeBuster|laptop> if it happened on join
10:02:47  <Eddi|zuHause> everything could lead to a desync
10:03:13  <Eddi|zuHause> no, desyncs that happen on join are due to the game state not saved properly
10:03:25  <NukeBuster|laptop> ok
10:03:40  <NukeBuster|laptop> and once you have a poisoned server it will remain that way?
10:03:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. the server has some information that is not saved, and when the client loads that savegame, the game state is different
10:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, until the server itself loads its own savegame
10:04:29  <NukeBuster|laptop> does that happen often?
10:04:36  <NukeBuster|laptop> and could one force that?
10:04:44  <Eddi|zuHause> the server owner can do that
10:04:52  <Celestar> NukeBuster|laptop: the server is never poinsoned per definition. the server is law, all clients must have the same state as the server.
10:05:28  <NukeBuster|laptop> choose the wrong word for it as said the server save was incorrect
10:06:23  <Celestar> the savegame might miss some information, or some cache (i.e. non-saved data that can be reconstructed) is faulty, or marked clean while it isn't.
10:06:45  <Celestar> or: some buffer overflow might have occured overwriting variables
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10:08:48  <Gekz> wtf
10:08:50  <Gekz> who kicked me
10:08:52  <Gekz> at some time in the past
10:09:34  <Celestar> better than being kicked in the future :P
10:10:44  <Gekz> that's not true
10:10:51  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could go back into the past to find your kicker and then kick him yourself :p
10:10:52  <Gekz> Celestar: now I'm superstitious
10:10:53  <Gekz> kick me now
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10:11:40  <petern> ok, i'm done
10:11:49  <Celestar> doing what? :P
10:11:56  * Celestar whistles
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11:25:25  <FloSoft> hmm path-based presignals do not work correctly?!?
11:26:56  <Rubidium> there's no concept of path based presignals
11:27:04  <Rubidium> not in the world of OpenTTD at least
11:30:21  <FloSoft> hmm why are they placeable then?
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11:32:02  <Rubidium> because they might be useable in some (obscure) situations
11:32:45  <FloSoft> okay? in which situations are they usable? if they dont work?
11:33:15  <Brianetta> FloSoft: Describe the signal you believe to be a path based presignal
11:33:25  <dih> :-P
11:33:38  <Brianetta> we'll then be able to tell you what it actually is.
11:34:06  <Rubidium> FloSoft: a pbs junction followed by a priority merger
11:34:23  <FloSoft> aah okay, the one with the yellow "presignal" sign on it
11:34:33  <Brianetta> How many lights?
11:35:05  <petern> that's probably a one-way pbs signal
11:35:15  <Brianetta> It is if it has three lights
11:35:17  <FloSoft> okay i read the tooltip
11:35:26  <Brianetta> if it has only two, it's a non-path presignal
11:35:27  <FloSoft> its the one way pbs
11:36:17  <FloSoft> its not very intuitive, i thought its a path-based presignal
11:36:27  <FloSoft> because of the yellow sign
11:36:35  <dih> wel - appart of the word 'pre' it's true :-P
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11:38:33  <dih> yummy - cold coffee
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11:39:59  <Rubidium> FloSoft: then come up with a better design for the signal ;)
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11:49:18  <FloSoft> green sign instead of a yellow one?
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11:58:16  <fjb> Use the tooltip, Luke.
11:58:48  <FloSoft> FauxFaux: yea but its not intuitive
11:58:58  <FloSoft> you see yellow sign -> "ah presignal"
12:03:10  <fjb> Be aware of the tab completion. It is the dark side of the IRC. Easy to use but doing odd things.
12:09:51  <dih> :P
12:10:12  <dih> beware - the tab-completion is coming over you!
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12:17:11  * FauxFaux peers. ¬_¬
12:17:35  * keyweed_ interconnects
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12:19:25  <Gekz> tabcomplete words
12:19:27  <Gekz> that's crazy
12:19:29  <Gekz> but exists.
12:20:42  <FauxFaux> I used to MUD a lot, and the clients for that tended to tab complete words; I got rather lazy. ¬_¬
12:21:20  <Gekz> lol.
12:21:31  <Gekz> no need to spell words anymore
12:21:48  <Gekz> n tab ne tab tab to sp tab tab tab wo tab tab any tab tab
12:22:26  <keyweed_> no nero to splice womanly anyway?
12:23:33  <Brianetta> has enter to complete words
12:23:48  <Brianetta> which is so completely brain-dead that I stare at it in horror whenever I use a new install
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12:49:20  <dih> Brianetta: do you know erlang?
12:49:24  <dih>
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12:55:51  <Celestar> :S
12:56:19  <Celestar> Description: 4-year on site service. In Stock? No (delivery in 3-4 weeks).
12:56:27  <Celestar> er .. right
12:57:26  <Celestar> on can "service" be in stock?
12:57:28  <Celestar> how*
12:58:25  <glx> printed on paper ;)
12:59:27  <Celestar> yeah and it takes 3-4 weeks to print a form?
13:04:53  <mikegrb> new delivery tech is due to be born in 3-4 weeks
13:17:01  <dih> tÌdeldÌ
13:20:55  <Brianetta> dih: big nope there.
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13:32:13  <dih> nice language :-)
13:32:19  <dih> interesting - let me put it that way
13:34:35  <Belugas> no, please, don't!
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14:04:42  <fjb> Is the improved time table patch worth a try?
14:06:10  <Celestar> rumor has it that it rocks
14:06:18  <Celestar> maybe Eddi|zuHause can tell you more
14:06:58  <Sacro> Celestar: i doubt it, Eddi|zuHause talks nowt but rubbish :p
14:09:49  *** apo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:09:55  <dih> you are in a room with 2 guards and 2 doors, one door leads you to freedom, the other door leads you to the lions. you also know that one of the guards always tells the truth, the other guard always lies - for both facts you know, you do not know which is the door to freedom nor which is the guard that lies... you may ask one guard one question (not each guard) - find your way into freedom :-)
14:10:48  *** mikl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:11:54  <Celestar> dih: "What would your comrade say if you ask him which door leads to freedom"
14:13:28  <Celestar> add a question mark
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14:20:09  <Rubidium> now what if everything you "know" is told by the lieing guard?
14:25:29  <yorick> then it will be one lies and one tells the truth instead of one tells the truth and one lies?
14:26:36  <De_Ghosty> you ask them
14:26:47  <De_Ghosty> are you dead?
14:26:51  <De_Ghosty> the liar will say yes
14:26:55  <De_Ghosty> the truth will say no
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14:28:23  <glx> both will point to the other door
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14:31:02  <yorick> you can only ask one question ;)
14:31:29  <Celestar> hence you need to ask A a question that involves B
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14:36:19  <dih> trallalla
14:36:48  <Rubidium> pomppieddom
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14:39:01  <Celestar> man building paraview is a pita :S
14:39:20  <Celestar> i've started about 5 hours ago
14:40:09  <Celestar> but as it won't build with qt4.4 (requires qt4.3) this involves a qt rebuild as well
14:40:50  <glx> does that mean all other stuff using qt4.4 qill break?
14:40:59  <glx> *will
14:42:12  <Celestar> glx: no, I have QT4.4 installed in /usr and qt4.3 in /usr/local now
14:42:32  <Celestar> and I've got to reboot in a minute because I got a kernel update too
14:43:07  <Celestar> man why do computers in 2008 require more babysitting than 20 years ago :S
14:43:13  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:43:41  <keyweed_> more complexity, more possibility for fail
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14:50:21  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14524 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Add: stop-in-depot as part of orders (PhilSophus)
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14:50:35  <Celestar> heh
14:50:40  <Celestar> at least the system has survived a kernel update
14:50:45  <Celestar> > uname -a
14:50:47  <Celestar> Linux rivendell #1 SMP 2008-08-21 00:34:25 +0200 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
14:50:54  <Celestar> I wonder how long a version string may be :P
14:51:42  <petern> i686 i686 i386?
14:52:11  <Celestar> machine, processor, hardware platform
14:52:31  <petern> Linux lachesis 2.6.26-1-vserver-686 #1 SMP Wed Sep 10 19:51:11 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
14:53:11  <Celestar> Linux andromeda #1 SMP Mon Jul 3 18:25:39 UTC 2006 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
14:53:41  <Rubidium> playing the: who has the most ancient kernel game?
14:54:28  <Celestar> Rubidium: 2.6.16 is the kernel for SLES10
14:54:38  <Celestar> so my server is stuck with that
14:54:59  <Rubidium> "my" VPS is running 2.6.9-023stab046.2-enterprise ;(
14:55:36  <Celestar> can I change the current directory in irssi?
14:56:01  <Celestar> yeah
14:56:11  <Celestar> but not of the underlying shell
14:56:11  <Celestar> br
14:56:12  <Celestar> b
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14:56:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Sysinfo for 'johannes-i': Linux running KDE 3.5.9 "release 49.1", CPU: AMD Athlon at 1628 MHz (3260 bogomips), HD: 1762/1784GB, RAM: 996/1010MB, 186 proc's, 7.4d up
14:57:35  * Celestar ponders dumping the output of "hwinfo" into the channel
14:58:41  <Belugas> no, please, don't!
14:59:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yay for r14524 \o/
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15:02:08  <Celestar> !openttd commit 14524
15:02:16  * Celestar sighs
15:03:11  <Rubidium> Celestar: you NEVER learn, do you? At least in this instance of knowledge gathering you seem to be failing quite badly ;)
15:04:30  <Celestar> yeah
15:04:33  <Celestar> apparently
15:04:34  <Celestar> (=
15:04:39  * Celestar sucks
15:04:40  <Celestar> :P
15:04:47  <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd commit 14524
15:04:48  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r14524 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2008-10-24 14:49:45 UTC)
15:04:49  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Add: stop-in-depot as part of orders (PhilSophus)
15:05:06  <Celestar> Rubidium: hence the "sigh"
15:05:40  <Eddi|zuHause> or you could have just scrolled up two pages, if you didn't kill your client ;)
15:06:07  <NukeBuster> Eddi... I stopped the trains and desyncs stop
15:06:26  <NukeBuster> with the global stop all trains thingy
15:06:43  <Celestar> <= heh
15:06:59  <NukeBuster> started the trains again and desyncs are back
15:07:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that only means that the desync reason does not surface anymore, not that it is gone
15:07:25  <Rubidium> Celestar: I like the Top Gear vehicles more ;)
15:07:34  <Celestar> for the police? :P
15:07:40  <Rubidium> yeah ;)
15:07:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: looks very... italian...
15:07:49  <Celestar> it only has a range of 400m :P
15:07:52  <NukeBuster> as soon as i start all the trains again within 10 secs desync
15:08:30  <NukeBuster> now to turn on trains 1 by one
15:08:33  <Eddi|zuHause> NukeBuster: then start only single trains until you see a pattern
15:08:41  <NukeBuster> :)
15:08:52  <Rubidium> Celestar:
15:08:53  <NukeBuster> saved the game first
15:08:53  <Eddi|zuHause> then try to reproduce that pattern in a different server
15:09:25  <Sacro> Linux desktop 2.6.27-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Oct 17 07:35:10 UTC 2008 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6400+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
15:09:40  <NukeBuster> have got exactly 300 trains
15:09:49  <NukeBuster> thats quite odd
15:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i really hope that's the "before" picture :p
15:10:11  <NukeBuster> hmm... seems to be ok
15:10:18  <Celestar> hah Rubidium :D
15:10:43  <NukeBuster> they are all trying to get a free path at the same time that can't be good
15:11:42  <Eddi|zuHause>
15:12:37  <Celestar> nice find Eddi|zuHause
15:12:55  <Eddi|zuHause> "Höchstgeschwindigkeit:    angeblich 100 km/h" :p
15:13:07  <Celestar> haha
15:13:10  <petern> yay, trabbies
15:13:20  <Celestar> yeah ... with a decent kick in the butt, on a downward slope with tailwind
15:13:37  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: Any Police-Wartburg pictures? (=
15:13:42  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that ;)
15:13:49  <Rubidium> Celestar: a few inches behind a truck going 100 km/h ;)
15:13:54  <Eddi|zuHause>
15:14:06  <Celestar> heh
15:14:23  <Celestar> I once got stopped by a hungarian police squad, driving an M5 :)
15:14:28  <Celestar> at around 280km/h or so
15:14:29  <Eddi|zuHause>
15:15:25  <Eddi|zuHause> "Son, do you know how fast you were driving?"
15:15:57  <Celestar> we went 250km/h
15:16:00  <Celestar> but I wasn't driving
15:16:09  <Celestar> it was a BMW 760iL
15:16:25  <Celestar> my friend was "They won't catch us anyway at this speed"
15:16:36  <Celestar> and then they zoomed past us
15:16:54  <Celestar> and told us we were only to go 130km/h or something
15:17:01  <Celestar> and he wanted 50 EUR or so :P
15:17:15  <Celestar> <= GAHAHA
15:18:08  <NukeBuster> What things influence the random seed from the client or server?
15:18:41  <Rubidium> almost everything except rendering the screen and playing the music
15:18:46  <Eddi|zuHause> the server gives out the random seed on client join, each random action is based on that seed, and yields a new seed
15:19:06  <Celestar> the seed is changed every time Random() is called, is it not?
15:19:15  <Celestar> er wait
15:19:44  <Celestar> well, I have to go anyway
15:19:55  <Rubidium> so do I, so I'm not going to wait on you ;)
15:19:59  <Celestar> cu tomorrow
15:20:00  <Celestar> :P
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15:20:22  <NukeBuster> halfway through starting the trains
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15:28:54  <NukeBuster> got 75% running again without desync
15:31:20  <Eddi|zuHause> damn, i should have shown celestar this one:
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16:29:12  <bravo> afternoon gentlemen
16:29:59  <Belugas> hello bravo
16:30:04  <Vikthor> evening genteman
16:33:15  <bravo> i got a little problem, i thought you could help me here ... i am trying to try cargodest branch ... went along instructions in openttd wiki, however, when i enter command hg clone (...) to obtain code, thing gets stucked at "adding file changes" ... i cant see no progress for some 10 minutes :( (currently using debian testing unstable) ... do you not know what should i do ?
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16:34:58  <Eddi|zuHause> the initial checkout process takes quite a while
16:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause> just wait
16:35:41  <Eddi|zuHause> hg does not just transfer a single checkout, it transfers the entire commit history
16:36:05  <bravo> oh thats it !
16:36:22  <bravo> thanks for explanation Eddi|zuHause
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16:40:06  <Belugas> Windows-native gui
16:40:09  <Belugas> he ben
16:40:17  <Belugas> just that
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16:51:11  <avdg[BEnl]> hi
16:51:41  <avdg[BEnl]> i need some help with r14508
16:52:07  <avdg[BEnl]> i have an error while loading my execute
16:53:00  <avdg[BEnl]> ???
16:53:10  <bravo> avdg[BEnl], i am not an expert but it might help to say what kind of error
16:53:18  <bravo> avdg[BEnl], on what operating system you use
16:53:49  <bravo> avdg[BEnl], people dont have the crystal balls to see your screen
16:53:55  <ln> no, no, that would be going too much into details.
16:54:06  <avdg[BEnl]> im in linux
16:54:13  <ln> *i'm
16:54:22  <Sacro> ln: *I'm
16:54:37  <avdg[BEnl]> error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
16:54:48  <avdg[BEnl]> that's the error
16:54:56  <bravo> avdg[BEnl], you need to install that library oboviously :P
16:55:16  <avdg[BEnl]> why does my other versions works well?
16:55:36  <petern> it is part of support for rtl languages, which was only recently added
16:55:41  <Belugas> because it weas recently introduced
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16:55:51  <avdg[BEnl]> hum... how can i get it
16:56:08  <NukeBuster> can we get a silly english mode too?
16:56:14  <NukeBuster> rtl english?
16:56:36  <Belugas> Right To Laugh
16:56:43  <avdg[BEnl]> ??
16:56:49  <Belugas> Random Too Low
16:57:08  <Belugas> Reason To Land
16:57:24  <NukeBuster> .lost is 13 train
16:57:24  *** fonso [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.7 :]
16:57:35  <NukeBuster> or
16:57:57  <avdg[BEnl]> :/ many problems... my windows is not under control :/
16:57:59  <NukeBuster> .tsol si 13 niart
16:58:09  <avdg[BEnl]> bored pc...
16:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause> avdg[BEnl]: look if you can find a library called "icu"
16:59:18  <avdg[BEnl]> where?
16:59:28  <avdg[BEnl]> the problem is that i am on a livecd
16:59:29  *** svippy [] has quit []
16:59:31  <Eddi|zuHause> in your favourite packet manager?
17:00:01  <frosch123> avdg[BEnl]: compile ottd yourself, it will disable icu then
17:00:28  <avdg[BEnl]> :/ bored
17:00:48  <avdg[BEnl]> i guess there is no compile tool on it
17:01:17  <Eddi|zuHause> well then you should think about getting a real installation for your distribution
17:01:39  <avdg[BEnl]> my windows is hacked by scareware :/
17:01:56  <avdg[BEnl]> *** life
17:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what they invented fdisk for :p
17:02:27  <avdg[BEnl]> :/
17:02:51  *** svippery [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:02:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i learned that i don't need windows for anything...
17:03:14  <Eddi|zuHause> wine has done amazing improvements in the past few years
17:03:15  <avdg[BEnl]> yeah, but my most programs will only work at windows
17:03:28  <avdg[BEnl]> i need to buy a big hd :/
17:03:48  <avdg[BEnl]> and a new version of kubuntu...
17:04:08  <avdg[BEnl]> need to try all linuxdistr again :/
17:04:43  <avdg[BEnl]> installed all icu... doesnt work
17:07:34  * avdg[BEnl] in shit
17:12:38  <avdg[BEnl]> :/ i know
17:12:44  <avdg[BEnl]> its only 3.6
17:15:27  <avdg[BEnl]> is there no option to start without icu?
17:15:30  <Rubidium> avdg[BEnl]: maybe try the etch debian package instead of the lenny one?
17:18:44  <avdg[BEnl]> im using adept atm
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17:20:32  <avdg[BEnl]> :/ no windows, and no openttd...
17:21:14  <avdg[BEnl]> i hate computers :p
17:21:55  <avdg[BEnl]> ty anyway
17:24:24  <Rubidium> the debian-etch binary is linked against libicu 3.6
17:24:41  <Rubidium> so you could install that one instead of one of the other unixy binaries
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17:25:43  <avdg[BEnl]> :/ still hopeless, its getting from mad to very bad...
17:28:25  *** svip [] has joined #openttd
17:30:09  * Rubidium got the idea he isn't heard
17:30:40  <Belugas> what did you said?
17:31:20  <Rubidium> nothing important for me ;)
17:31:41  <avdg[BEnl]> i hate windows, i hate my old kubuntu :/
17:32:43  <Aali> ooh, stop in depot is in trunk now?
17:35:13  <Eddi|zuHause> what you say?
17:36:06  <fjb> avdg[BEnl]: You hate Windows? You hate Linux? Use
17:36:50  <Rubidium> fjb: looks too much like linux, I recommend Bob. Who can hate a dog?
17:40:58  <Eddi|zuHause> what's this "zeta" that they always advertise in some homeshopping tv shows?
17:44:33  *** nekx [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:45:01  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: translators * r14525 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/indonesian.txt:
17:45:01  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-24 17:44:48
17:45:01  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: indonesian - 412 fixed by dnaftali (412)
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17:45:38  <Wolf01> hello
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17:47:16  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: BeOS.
17:47:48  <Eddi|zuHause> is that useful for anything?
17:48:01  *** sigmund [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:48:24  <fjb> Yes, you can study moders OS design and some cool ideas.
17:49:05  <fjb> Sadly you don't get the source.
17:50:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder if i should apply for a job at microsoft :p
17:50:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "rinn in die organistaion und von innen uffmischen"
17:50:51  <De_Ghosty> when is signal in tunnels!?!?1
17:50:59  <De_Ghosty> it is the holy grail of ottd
17:51:16  <petern> have you written it yet?
17:51:18  <Eddi|zuHause> De_Ghosty: stardate 129242.2, and no, it's not
17:51:48  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: They are too big for that plan.
17:52:08  <De_Ghosty> writtien it
17:52:10  <De_Ghosty> no not really
17:52:13  <De_Ghosty> thinking about it tho
17:52:15  <De_Ghosty> :D
17:52:16  <Belugas> signals just do not want to enter the tunnels.  they are too big
17:52:28  <Belugas> i tried to push them in, but i borke the light
17:52:30  <petern> and scared of the dark
17:52:30  <fjb> De_Ghosty: And one of ! or ? per sentence is enough.
17:52:41  <De_Ghosty> no it's not
17:52:49  <De_Ghosty> more makes it comical
17:52:51  <Eddi|zuHause> except if you are spanish
17:52:52  <Belugas> so, i tried shortening the posts, the signla was not been transmitted
17:53:04  *** svip [] has quit [Quit: :Quit]
17:53:05  <Eddi|zuHause> then you are allowed for an additional ¡ or ¿
17:53:46  <De_Ghosty> is it possible to impliment rail/road building like roller coaster tycoon?
17:54:02  <De_Ghosty> you get a magic box that goes up and down it would solve so much
17:54:07  <De_Ghosty> imo
17:54:42  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean ignore all those people who bitch about locomotion for using that stupid roller coaster tycoon build system?
17:54:54  <NukeBuster> and let it act as a bridge going into the ground?
17:54:57  <Eddi|zuHause> not that i have any idea how that even works
17:55:41  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i don't think the build system has anything to do why signals in tunnels are not implemented
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17:55:45  <Belugas> De_Ghosty, this is openTTD, not Open_CLONE_EVERYTHING
17:56:21  <De_Ghosty> lol
17:56:28  <De_Ghosty> we should makes some tanks too :D
17:56:55  <NukeBuster> why don't you just use trains to crash into each other...
17:56:59  <Eddi|zuHause> you can already do that, De_Ghosty.
17:57:08  <Belugas> tanks...
17:57:08  <De_Ghosty> het
17:57:14  <De_Ghosty> at 400k pop
17:57:25  <De_Ghosty> the city have no unpaved streets
17:57:25  <Belugas> hey, shold we kick/ban this warpig, guys?
17:57:41  <NukeBuster> warmonger?
17:58:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid if i vote 'yes', it'll come back and haunt me. wouldn't be the first time :p
17:58:15  *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry
17:59:33  <NukeBuster> Looky here:
18:00:49  <Eddi|zuHause> that's like one of the worst wiki pages i have ever seen...
18:01:27  <NukeBuster> it does provide the answer
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18:03:51  <Eddi|zuHause> to which question?
18:03:58  <Belugas> what?
18:04:50  <NukeBuster> hmm.... maybe not a question but "[19:56] <De_Ghosty> we should makes some tanks too :D"
18:05:07  <Eddi|zuHause> there isn't even a 42 on that page
18:05:30  <De_Ghosty> lol
18:06:26  <Eddi|zuHause> "In OpenTTD we consider certain options that affect gameplay to be patches." <- somebody should update this page :p
18:07:57  <NukeBuster> Go ahead... its wiki :P
18:09:14  *** Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:09:14  *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
18:15:28  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
18:21:14  <Eddi|zuHause> whose wiki?
18:21:32  <NukeBuster> openttd wiki
18:21:40  <NukeBuster> but wiki is usually editable
18:22:06  <Eddi|zuHause> fine, you didn't get it... alright
18:22:06  <Wolf01> lazyness
18:22:12  <Wolf01> ;)
18:23:19  <Eddi|zuHause> think again about what i said, and what you said. if you can tell me what i meant, we can speak again ;)
18:24:14  <NukeBuster> I probably took it the wrong way as in owner. You probably ment who wiki is...
18:25:00  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'd have said "who is wiki" then...
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19:03:48  <thingwath> Grammar police is coming for you.
19:05:24  * Belugas hides, as he would be in their target too
19:05:35  *** Aylomen [] has joined #openttd
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19:15:03  * fjb pretends to not exist.
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19:58:43  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
19:58:54  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
20:00:53  <bravo> Nite_Owl, hello
20:01:17  *** grumbel_ [] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
20:03:40  <Belugas> Hou Hou
20:08:20  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
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20:10:26  *** bravo is now known as sierra1024
20:22:07  *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@] has quit [Quit:]
20:27:13  *** Muxy [] has joined #openttd
20:28:38  <Muxy> Hello Tycoon World !
20:30:36  *** Muxy [] has quit []
20:30:49  <frosch123> :)
20:30:55  <sierra1024> :)
20:31:01  <Nite_Owl> That was quick
20:31:38  *** sierra1024 [] has quit [Quit: Odcházím]
20:31:59  <Belugas> maybe it's the only words he knows in english
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20:34:37  <yorick> he's shy :)
20:35:52  <ben_goodger> good evening, fellow humans
20:36:22  <fjb> Are you sure?
20:36:26  <ben_goodger> tonight's obligatory quote: "The question about Obama now is whether the result will be a landslide, or whether the CIA will find some other way."
20:36:31  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:36:40  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
20:39:22  <Belugas> in Montreal, Quebec, there was a poll : "If you were an american, who would you vote for" 88% choose Obama
20:41:00  <frosch123> "if you were an american"? so as canadian you would decide different?
20:41:39  <Belugas> tricky question indeed
20:42:08  <fjb> You don't need the CIA if you are using voting machines.
20:43:42  <Belugas> frosch123, i hate you!  I can't pull your question out of my mind now!
20:43:59  <DaleStan> Well, if you weren't an American, one would generally hope that you weren't planning to vote for either. Mess up our voter turnout.
20:44:09  <frosch123> one of my colleages told me, when he was voting in bavaria the pencil was tied using a very short string
20:44:29  <frosch123> poor belugas :)
20:44:40  <DaleStan> Oh, wait. Never mind. We've got that quite well messed up already, albeit in the other direction.
20:46:22  <Belugas> hehe
20:48:50  <Belugas> the thing is, canadians do feel a lot concerned about what happens on the other side of the border
20:49:02  <FloSoft> ah i found out that there is no need for pbps (path based pre signals) you can put for example for a 4 station with 2 inputs a pbs signal and he will fill the station or wait in front of it
20:53:06  <Belugas> shit :(
20:53:13  <Belugas> too much music on my card :S
20:53:19  <Belugas> no place for a new repo
20:54:09  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14526 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#2379]: make sure trains stop at the end of a station; a 3/8th length train did stop 2/8th of it's length too early causing a 63/8th long train not to fit in a 4 tile station.
20:54:28  <Rubidium> Belugas: looks like it's time to start using hg ;)
20:54:52  * Belugas is scared to death to learn it!
20:55:13  <Eddi|zuHause> there's the "'" that was missing earlier :p
20:56:26  <Belugas> Rubidium, it's that or it's time i make some serious cleaning on that card :)
20:56:33  <Belugas> way too much goodies
20:57:25  <petern> bigger card
20:58:17  <Belugas> from 4 to 8 gig :_
20:58:19  <Belugas> why not!
20:58:41  *** yorick [] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
20:59:01  <Yexo> thx Rubidium
21:00:39  <Belugas> and now, ladies and gentlemen, let jsut say byebye, have a nice evening and weekend and see you on monday
21:00:49  <petern> enjoy
21:01:25  <Belugas> already started ;)
21:01:43  *** FloSoft [] has quit [Quit: computer has gone to sleep]
21:01:56  <Belugas> Scotland's Shame is on the cell phone ;)
21:01:58  <Belugas> youhou
21:02:02  * Belugas is gone
21:02:08  <Nite_Owl> later Belugas
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21:40:04  *** vvv444 [] has joined #openttd
21:40:20  <vvv444> Hello ppl
21:40:51  <vvv444> A question, is there a way finding specific waypoint by name?
21:41:58  <frosch123> when it is part of orders, you can ctrl click the order
21:44:08  <vvv444> No, I mean that for stations you have a list that you can find any station there by name. Is there such a list for way points?
21:44:18  <frosch123> no, neither for buoys
21:44:40  <vvv444> k, tnx
21:44:43  <Rubidium> and neither for depots
21:49:59  <vvv444> Rubidium: Do you think it's logical adding buoys/depots/waypoints as additional 'station' types at station list? (with separate buttons)
21:50:29  <frosch123> depots would be silly as long as you cannot rename them
21:50:45  <vvv444> frosch123: That can be done as well :)
21:51:11  <vvv444> I just found myself looking for some waypoint for quite a long time today, so I think this functionality can be nice to have.
21:52:02  <vvv444> The best place I found to place it is station list. If it looks logical for people, maybe I'll implement it.
21:52:39  <frosch123> station list is quite different as it shows ratings and waiting cargo and such
21:53:31  <vvv444> Well, any other ideas?
21:54:02  <frosch123> no, I hardly have any waypoints nor buoys in my games
21:55:35  <Nite_Owl> Searchable like the sign list patch
21:56:10  <Nite_Owl> of course you would need a list first
21:56:15  <vvv444> Nite_Owl: Is signlist searchable?
21:57:02  <Nite_Owl> I am fairly sure someone was working on a patch to make it so
21:57:30  <vvv444> Well, it indeed requires list first
21:57:52  <Nite_Owl> I think the current trunk version is just sort of scrollable
21:58:20  <Nite_Owl> I do not use a lot of signs so I am not 100% sure
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21:59:32  <vvv444> The best idea I came with was the station list, but since I haven't heard any supportive optinions yet, but only objection from frosch123, I will wait for more ideas before even thinking about implementing it.
22:01:47  *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
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22:11:23  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:12:20  <Eddi|zuHause> you really don't know how the world works :p
22:12:55  <Eddi|zuHause> the schwabians coined the phrase "not being yelled at is praise enough"
22:15:52  <Eddi|zuHause> (that's basically the opposite of the, in the anglo-saxon culture very common, phrase "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all")
22:16:57  <Eddi|zuHause> but german efficiency cannot afford "sandwiching" every criticism...
22:18:48  <Brianetta> sandwiching?
22:19:00  <Brianetta> Wie sagt man dass, auf Deutsch?
22:19:06  <Brianetta> das
22:19:14  * Brianetta is sleepy (:
22:19:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: putting a critical statement between two pseudo-nice statements
22:19:29  <Brianetta> ah right
22:19:53  <Eddi|zuHause> which are basically only syntactic sugar to not violate the above rule
22:19:56  <Brianetta> We have a phrase for that
22:19:59  <Aali> soo, do banks ever close down?
22:20:09  <Brianetta> it's related to sandwiches, in a way
22:20:20  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, every day at 17:00, or 13:00 on friday
22:20:26  <Brianetta> the first pseudo-nice statement is "buttering up"
22:20:54  <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: close down, not close
22:21:02  <Brianetta> Aali: Close of banking in the UK is usually at 15:30 or 16:00
22:21:13  <Rubidium> in Iceland they close down...
22:21:26  <Rubidium> and in the US too
22:21:34  <Brianetta> In the UK they could, but it's unlikely that the current government would let them
22:21:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just amazed how efficient we are at not giving the answer the user wants ;)
22:21:46  <Brianetta> The Northern Rock bank had a run from its customers, and the government nationalised it.
22:21:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i feel almost like i'm in #mathe ;)
22:22:14  <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: its IRC, its just how things work
22:22:46  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: lile Q: Is there a chance? A: Yes there is a chance ranging from (including) 0 up to and including 1.
22:23:25  <Rubidium> s/lile/like/
22:23:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Q: is this the channel where you can ask questions about maths? A: no, we are a CS clan
22:23:48  <Eddi|zuHause> and for extra amusement: A: here is our clanpage: [...]
22:24:08  *** amews_aj [] has joined #openttd
22:24:16  <Eddi|zuHause> (sadly, our "clanpage" is offline meanwhile)
22:24:17  *** amews_aj [] has quit []
22:24:43  <ln> i've found a certain #openttd @ oftc to be a pretty good place to ask about maths on irc.
22:25:05  <Brianetta> Aali: When you say "do banks ever close down?" you need to be more specific, anyway.  Firstly, the country is very important.  Then, the type of bank.
22:25:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i think he means ingame ;)
22:25:41  <Aali> japan, and openttd bank
22:25:43  <Brianetta> ln: Any game dev channel is good for maths questions.
22:25:44  <ln> can't be, that would be on-topic.
22:26:08  <ln> Brianetta: this is the only of that sort i'm on.
22:26:15  <Brianetta> Aali: Ah.  Fictitious banks.  They don't seem to close down.
22:26:38  <Brianetta> ln: Ah.  I'm also on some Linux channels.
22:27:31  <Aali> Brianetta: not ever?
22:27:35  <Eddi|zuHause> but now for something completely different
22:27:37  <Aali> thats a bummer
22:27:51  <Eddi|zuHause> can i tell "svn diff" to not look for line endings?
22:27:59  <Brianetta> Aali: Frankly, it was a bit of a surprise for somebody to be talking about the risk of a bank closing in an in-game context.
22:28:32  <Brianetta> Aali: You can probably find out more from the wiki
22:28:39  <Brianetta> It has pages about game mechanics
22:29:02  <Brianetta> and newgrfs can alter the behaviour of a bank, of course
22:30:27  <Aali> the wiki doesn't say anything about banks so i'll just assume its like any other industry
22:30:46  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: fix the line-endings in the repository :/
22:31:05  <Eddi|zuHause> ln doesn't help me getting a proper diff
22:31:14  <Eddi|zuHause> +:
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22:33:35  *** Treve [~T@] has joined #openttd
22:33:42  <Treve> hi
22:33:49  <Treve> iemand nlN
22:33:53  <Treve> NLN
22:33:55  <Treve> ?
22:33:57  <Treve> sorry
22:34:00  <Treve> nl
22:34:17  <ln> meine damen und herren, 100% of ICE-T trains will be out of operation from now on.
22:36:00  <Eddi|zuHause>
22:37:31  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
22:38:59  <Wolf01> 'night
22:39:09  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:40:06  <ln> must say Treve was quite successful obfuscating his question.
22:40:33  <Eddi|zuHause> ln: i'm pretty sure i know what he wanted to ask ;)
22:43:57  <Treve> some 1 helpt me in my own language, but i want to link my server to irc
22:44:03  <Treve> thats it i think :)
22:44:09  <Treve> reading about autopilot now
22:44:15  <Treve> looking for downloadlink ;)
22:46:14  *** Mortal [] has quit [Quit: [FATAL] Client error: Memory leak - More RAM needed. More! More! More!]
22:51:20  <fjb> I'm thinking to object oriented for C...
22:51:26  <fjb> too
22:51:41  <Treve> cant find it
22:52:04  <ben_goodger> fjb: the human _brain_is too object-oriented for C
22:52:39  <ben_goodger> this may be why people who spend large amounts of time with it eventually go mad, like a certain kernel developer (distributed source control, indeed)
22:52:46  *** DaleStan is now known as Guest206
22:52:48  *** DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
22:53:37  <Treve> can someone plz help me how to link my server to irc? and where to get autopilot? plz
22:53:38  <fjb> But is using C++ for programming a microcontroller really a good idea?
22:54:21  <vvv444> Depends on how much ROM/Flash you have and how good your compiler optimizations are.
22:54:37  <ln> Treve is privmsging me, not good.
22:55:03  <DaleStan> Treve: Yes. Google.
22:55:06  <Treve> dont know who you are actually, dint know thats a prob
22:55:14  <Treve> looking for it
22:55:20  <Treve> but my google is teasing my i guess
22:55:22  *** Guest206 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:55:35  <DaleStan> PM is always a problem unless you know that it is not. Not the other way around.
22:55:51  <fjb> Treve: A quick search on the next best web search engine results in:
22:56:11  <Treve> he said my name
22:56:12  <Zuu> Treve: Also expect it to take som time, no rush.
22:56:44  <Treve> if thats the spirit here
22:56:49  <Treve> its nothing for me
22:56:52  <Treve> c y
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22:57:13  <fjb> vvv444: 256k ROM and 64k RAM. Compiler is GCC.
22:58:29  <vvv444> architecture? 256k is quite ok. If you don't have many time critical tasks C++ can be fine (given G++ compiles well to this arch)
22:58:42  <fjb> Architecture is ARM 7.
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22:59:06  <vvv444> Also, it depends on how many object things you have.
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22:59:34  <fjb> Timecritical may be a big problem. I have to use an OS with cooperative multitasking...
22:59:58  <vvv444> I've used C++ for ARM, it was ok.
23:00:55  <vvv444> But I think I've used IAR compiler
23:01:31  <Zuu> Was I to hard on Treve? Just don't like when people expect that things that is completely new to them to get done instantly, without the patience to spend the time it takes.
23:01:42  <vvv444> Well, cooperative multitasking isn't a VERY timecritical thing. By time critical I mean interrupts etc.
23:02:03  <fjb> I guess I will stay with C for the moment and try to port some parts to C++ in a branch. I can compare the code size then.
23:02:48  <vvv444> As I remember one of C++ weak points is vtables size.
23:02:51  <fjb> vvv444: Cooperative multitasking makes the timing worse.
23:03:04  <ln> Zuu: no, you weren't.
23:03:45  <fjb> Zuu: You were not too hard. He was a bit annoying and I found what he was lokking for with 3 clicks on the next best search engine.
23:04:07  <vvv444> fjb: These requiring ROM of course. Also, people tend factoring too much, link time optimizations are quite important.
23:04:26  <Zuu> Better they decide to abort or spend the time than whining about it takning to long time.
23:04:36  <vvv444> fjb: I think GCC still has problems with these.
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23:05:11  <fjb> Thank you, I will have to experiment on a side branch then and stay with C for the main branch.
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23:06:07  <vvv444> fjb: You're welcome, I'll be glad to hear the results :) I hope you know to use scope to measuring times? ;)
23:06:55  <vvv444> Although on ARM you probably have a normal timer that can be used for that...
23:07:15  <fjb> Yes, the goal is to do things in 1ms steps.
23:07:41  <fjb> Problem is the cooperative IP stack.
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23:08:38  * Zuu wonders why he only can find documents saying that IRC is good for deaf/hard of hearing, but no actual IRC channel/server to join. :p
23:08:49  <vvv444> Well, that's not so terrible :) I was optimizing fixed point calculations from 20us to 3 us yestreday in my proj since these were done in interrupt :)
23:09:43  <vvv444> Not a big fan of assembly coding though...
23:10:03  <fjb> I fear I have to do most things in interrupt routines because that IP stack tends to hog the cpu for 3ms.
23:10:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just so glad that i don't count in that kind of speed :p
23:10:38  <vvv444> Hmm, that's not a good thing. You better try reorganizing the IP stack code.
23:10:42  <fjb> I hope to get away with C. Assembler is not that much fun on RISC architectures.
23:10:56  <vvv444> fjb: indeed :)
23:11:01  <fjb> The IP stack is part of the OS.
23:11:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the only kind of time constraint i have is that the algorithms shouldn't be exponential :p
23:11:06  <vvv444> No src?
23:11:45  <fjb> Yes, source, but I would have to almost rewrite the IP stack and parts of the OS.
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23:12:24  <vvv444> fjb: That's your chice, but doing things in interrupts isn't very nice.
23:12:46  <vvv444> It's the shortest path to trouble.
23:13:37  <fjb> The OS was not my choice. It is nice if you don't have to do timecritical stuff. And rewriting half of the OS gets me way beyond the time frame.
23:13:46  <vvv444> Also, it adds access control problem, since you can have shared resources used on several priority levels.
23:14:53  <fjb> I will see how far I get.
23:15:22  <vvv444> Well, I hope you manage with it. Good luck!
23:17:40  <fjb> Thank you.
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23:24:41  <Nite_Owl> Time to feed - later all
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