Log for #openttd on 24th November 2008:
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00:00:15  <Aali> so you could probably still make some money with one plane or a helicopter
00:00:28  <Brianetta> AgentLeMan: Experienced.  Uber-rich players are not bankrupt; kind of a contradiction.
00:00:40  <AgentLeMan> Aali, i meant, trash all trains, use planes for the cargo that is nonpaxish
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00:01:38  <AgentLeMan> Brianetta, nono :o) you said, you MAKE them go bankcrupt, i thought og some kind of limit, from which it will all get much much harder to make profit
00:02:21  <AgentLeMan> but.. how do you decide/judge, who IS experienced? number of used signals?
00:03:10  <Brianetta> I don't decide
00:03:13  <Brianetta> and it's not automatic
00:03:19  <Brianetta> it's just bloody hard to get rich
00:03:27  <AgentLeMan> uah :o)
00:03:41  <Brianetta> "My server settings make experienced players go bankrupt" in the sense of "children make parents go mad"
00:03:45  <Brianetta> Not all parents
00:03:47  <Brianetta> just parents
00:04:36  <AgentLeMan> thats what i like about the uk renewal trainset : normally, ( as far as i see ) the running costs/profit ratio is 1:10. in ukrs it is more like 1:32
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00:04:44  <AgentLeMan> 1:3, later then 1:2
00:05:56  <AgentLeMan> in appes scenario it is evem 1:20
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00:17:22  <thomas001> hi, i run a passenger service between two town which looks like this: Town A --- long train connection --> station X with no town besides it --- short ferry connection -> town B. i've choosen transfer for the train at station X,and i earn good money there. and i've chosen unload for the ferry at town B,but there i loose money upon every ferry arrival. why?
00:18:05  <AgentLeMan> gee, its really time for cargodest ;o)
00:18:38  <Aali> cargodest doesn't solve this problem
00:18:46  <AgentLeMan> huh? :o(((
00:19:00  <Eddi|zuHause> thomas001: the problem is that the ferry is much slower than the train
00:19:05  <Aali> it gets worse, actually, since transfers will happen implicitly
00:19:11  <thomas001> i need 2 stations btw X for A->B and Y for B->A ...perhaps this whould be solved by cargodest
00:19:13  <AgentLeMan> i hought, it would solve the twoway transferfeedersystem
00:19:25  <thomas001> Eddi|zuHause, where is the problem there?
00:19:39  <Aali> it does, but it doesn't solve the negative income issue
00:19:54  <AgentLeMan> Aali, oh, thats now oaky for me
00:19:55  <Eddi|zuHause> thomas001: the train gets an estimated income on the expectations that the passengers travel on with the same speed
00:20:24  <Eddi|zuHause> then the ferry travels at much lower speed, so it must pay the difference between expected and real income
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00:20:53  <thomas001> so this problem will be solved when faster ferries will be available?
00:21:04  <AgentLeMan> hm, but.. when they are on the ferry, doesnt get the estiomation calculated anew, so when they again board the train, its all +-0?
00:21:08  <SmatZ> or use slower trains :-P
00:21:10  <thomas001> is it the correct way to run such a transfer service or should the train just unload?
00:21:12  <Aali> thomas001: you're still making money
00:21:43  <Aali> but the train gets too much money and the ferry has to make up for that
00:22:03  <SmatZ> use transfer
00:22:16  <thomas001> Aali, poor little ferry
00:22:39  <Aali> indeed
00:22:53  <SmatZ> at each transfer point, the value of cargo is computed as if it was transferred from original station to this destination
00:23:12  <SmatZ> sum of all transfer shares == final cargo value
00:23:40  <thomas001> how does the game know about the destination of the cargo when it arrives at a feeder station?
00:23:41  <SmatZ> so if you unloaded cargo at your transfer station, you would get more money than now
00:23:50  <SmatZ> it doesn't know final station
00:24:00  <SmatZ> it knows current station and station of origin
00:24:11  <SmatZ> feeder share aren't real money
00:24:18  <SmatZ> it is not added to your bank ballance
00:24:22  <AgentLeMan> thats why the last vehicle adjusts the whole profit?
00:24:34  <SmatZ> not only the last
00:25:00  <thomas001> can you please explain why i whould earn more money when just unloading...i don't get it
00:25:05  <Nite_Owl> Need to feed - later all
00:25:07  <AgentLeMan> uhm, sorry, i meant "makes"
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00:26:04  <AgentLeMan> btw. is this : still valid all?
00:26:26  <SmatZ> thomas001: you don't get more money, just feeder won't be 'in red'
00:26:42  <thomas001> ah,ok
00:27:25  <Patrick> ok, riddle me this
00:27:30  <Patrick> I want to do magic
00:27:39  <SmatZ> AgentLeMan: seems outdated
00:27:43  <Patrick> I want to take 50 trains and make each of them longer
00:27:45  <Patrick> automatically
00:27:49  <AgentLeMan> SmatZ ok :o(
00:28:15  <Aali> Patrick: you're screwed
00:28:21  <Aali> you'll have to do it manually
00:28:23  <Patrick> my current plan is to send them all to a depot, sell them all, and rebuild the fleet
00:28:26  <Char> even autoreplace wont work, right? ;)
00:28:28  <Patrick> or, and this is the cunning bit
00:28:32  <Patrick> I think this'll work:
00:28:42  <Char> or can you use autoreplace to replace whole trains?
00:28:47  <Patrick> autoreplace a dualhead to a singlehead
00:28:58  <Patrick> and make it keep the same length, it might add an extra cart
00:29:00  <thomas001> and cargodest is some patch which simplifies setting up cargo destinations? will it get into main openttd somewhen soon? i dislike the idea playing patched games ;-)
00:29:06  <Patrick> and then replace it the way back
00:29:09  <Aali> it doesn't say keep the same length
00:29:12  <Patrick> ah.
00:29:18  <Aali> its only wagon removal
00:29:22  <Aali> never adds anything
00:29:53  <Char> thomas001: how do you mean, simplify?
00:30:26  <thomas001> Char, for example that i do not need to stations any more for a feeder service in two directions
00:30:27  <Aali> thomas001: cargodest keeps an internal routing network based on your vehicles orders, in effect, cargo wants to go somewhere specific and routes itself through your network
00:31:04  <Char> thomas001: i guess cargodest is not what you are looking for ;)
00:31:14  <Char> btw
00:31:25  <Char> what happens if i only build point-to-point routes?
00:31:26  <Aali> thomas001: so no, you will not need two stations for a feeder service in two directions
00:31:35  <Patrick> Char: your map gets very clogged
00:31:37  <AgentLeMan> °grins° thought : a depot sitting right before at a station, if the train has that as order ( and a special re-length order ) train goes in, and the depot looks into the targetloadstation, how much cargo there is, then the depot adjusts the traincars, so everything that is NOW there, can be loaded. next time, when less cargo is there, the same
00:31:46  <Aali> since the cargo wont board a train that doesn't go to its destination
00:31:55  <Char> Patrick: yeah i know, but i dont need any hubs :P. what happens to cargodest?
00:31:56  <Patrick> AgentLeMan: heh, but platform length?
00:32:00  <Patrick> dunno.
00:32:07  <Patrick> the cargo panics
00:32:16  <AgentLeMan> patrick, 7 tiles should be enough for most, i think
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00:32:54  <thomas001> Aali, so the cargo doesn't know the train feeds a train which goes to its destination?
00:32:57  <AgentLeMan> <--- not a fan of those uberstationscenarios
00:33:02  * Char imagines panicking oil
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00:33:28  <Aali> thomas001: in regular ottd, any cargo will be loaded into any train that can take it
00:33:39  <thomas001> Aali, and with cargodest?
00:33:47  <Char> and unloaded at any station it is "wanted"
00:33:59  <Aali> in cargodest, cargo packets want to go somewhere and will not board a train that doesn't take it closer to its destination
00:34:05  <Char> thomas001: your cargo decides "i want to go from munich heights to erfurt lower"
00:34:17  <AgentLeMan> Char, what about emotional sensitive ectoplasm? ;o)
00:34:30  <thomas001> closer in which sense?
00:34:32  <Char> AgentLeMan: i never met any, i think
00:34:44  <Char> thomas001: in a spatial sense, i guess
00:35:02  <AgentLeMan> Char, if so : be nice and kind and polite! and DONT pour it into toasters!
00:35:30  <thomas001> and how does my cargo know which destination it should travel to?
00:36:02  <Aali> thomas001: if you have a route from A to B, cargo will choose that route over one that goes A->X->B
00:36:22  <Aali> but if A->X-B is the only way, it will go there
00:36:30  <thomas001> Aali, imagine passenger service A->B and A->C, how to passengers at A decide where to travel?
00:36:48  <Char> btw
00:36:57  <Char> which kind of ectoplasma do you refer to?
00:36:58  <Char> Ectoplasm is said to be produced by physical mediums when in a trance state. This material is excreted as a gauze-like substance from orifices on the medium's body and spiritual entities are said to drape this substance over their nonphysical body, enabling them to interact in our physical universe.
00:37:00  <Aali> depends on what service you're providing
00:37:03  <Char> (from wiki)
00:37:18  <AgentLeMan> Char wow.#
00:37:26  <thomas001> Aali, passenger transport i think ;)
00:37:32  <Aali> but they'll probably want to go from A to B and A to C
00:37:44  <Char> AgentLeMan: ?
00:37:51  <AgentLeMan> Char : wow.
00:38:02  <Aali> yes, but planes are better than trains (or the other way around, can't remember)
00:38:07  <Char> AgentLeMan: why?
00:38:09  <thomas001> Aali, so they'll enter the first train that arrives?
00:38:12  <AgentLeMan> and if youre not a medium? thats then called.. sweat?
00:38:18  <Char> i have no idea
00:38:24  <Char> the german wiki says more
00:38:37  <Aali> thomas001: no, they already know where they want to go when they spawn at the station
00:38:39  <AgentLeMan> why? because it "seems" plausible, hence : wow
00:38:56  <Char> it tells that ectoplasma is supposed to be grey-white and foamy
00:39:06  <AgentLeMan> so youre train becomes a spawnkiller °snickers°
00:39:28  <thomas001> Aali, hmm,that sounds nice...will i have more passenger in a big town that want to travel to another big town than to a village? ;)
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00:40:22  <AgentLeMan> Char "spiritual entities are said to drape this substance over their nonphysical body, enabling them to interact in our physical universe." < reminds me of mr. montgomery burns where he got overmedicated and roamed the woods
00:41:02  <Char> :P
00:41:04  <Char> damn
00:41:06  <Char> i misspelled
00:41:08  <Char> openttd
00:41:10  <AgentLeMan> i referred thought to pink ectoplasm... ( movie : ghostbusters II )
00:41:11  <Char> and got to
00:41:11  <Char>
00:41:17  <Aali> thomas001: not really, passenger routes aren't balanced so that if X passengers go from A to B, X passengers must go back to A
00:41:42  <AgentLeMan> Aali oO
00:41:42  <Aali> but stuff like that will probably be implemented after its included in trunk
00:41:52  <Patrick> so I can just ship everyone in the world
00:41:54  <AgentLeMan> its an exchange?
00:41:55  <Patrick> to an oil rig
00:42:03  <Char> thomas001: this site ( might be slightly outdated, but looking at the pictures might answer quite some of your questions
00:42:18  <Char> look at the "station cargo list" pics
00:42:19  <Aali> Patrick: sure
00:42:38  <thomas001> thanks Char
00:42:47  <Char> AgentLeMan: didnt see that movie
00:42:52  <Aali> in regular ottd, you can do whatever you want to those poor people
00:42:59  <Char> yeah
00:43:05  <AgentLeMan> Patrick, im wondering... if you do that and shove 20k pax to an oilrig... will you get more... "oil" out of it? ;oP
00:43:10  <Aali> in cargodest, they will only go to that oil rig if there's nowhere else to go
00:43:21  <Char> like dump them all in some fucked-up place at one end of the map for the sole reason that its the farthest place to go to
00:43:22  <AgentLeMan> i mean.. they must end "somewhere"
00:43:56  <AgentLeMan> at breakfast "mummy? the margerine smells like grandpa!"
00:44:00  <Char> AgentLeMan: is that a philosophical question? :P
00:44:31  <Char> AgentLeMan: well, i dont know.... but MY margerine is not made from that kind of oil
00:44:46  <AgentLeMan> Char well... as it is now, all people just want to "get the hell outta here"
00:44:59  <Char> yeah
00:45:04  <Char> with no specific destination
00:45:07  <Char> :P
00:45:16  <Char> damn
00:45:21  <Char> i should stop eating chocolate
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00:45:49  <SpComb> nevar
00:46:07  <Char> ?
00:46:09  <AgentLeMan> Char: okok. at car-repairstation : "sir, your car smells like teen spirit"
00:46:50  <AgentLeMan> ergo : oilrigs, if fed with enough passangers create/produce ectoplasm
00:47:03  <Char> repair station guy: "damn, shouldnt have had my girlfriend in YOUR car...."
00:47:24  <AgentLeMan> hehe
00:47:37  <Char> hmmm
00:47:38  <Char> so
00:47:53  <Char> what kind of wagons do you transport ectoplasm in?
00:48:03  <AgentLeMan> oh, thats easy
00:48:13  <Char> remember, its grey-white
00:48:17  <Char> and foamy
00:48:47  <Char> and - where do you transport it to?
00:52:15  <AgentLeMan> its basically a cage, like for birds, connected to a powersource, farraday-cagelike, powered by a high-frequency ionic charger. a second device creates a magnetometric field around the cage, to strengthen it. and it has of course to be made of a specific metal. in case you get sued by villages for "making people think, you transport aliens ( because of the color ) to some gulag, you can drape over it a black blanket. and of course, your target
00:52:47  <Char> too long message :P
00:52:53  <AgentLeMan> wahts missing?
00:52:55  <Char> and now you have to retype that stuff
00:53:07  <Char> "and of course, your target" is the last words
00:53:11  <AgentLeMan> and why do "i" not see the cut-off?
00:53:11  <Char> i guess the rest got cropped?
00:53:22  <AgentLeMan> and of course, your target of choice is... hmmm any governmental building in a given city. because most of the dead want to haunt such places.
00:53:41  <Char> great
00:53:45  <Char> sounds like fun
00:53:56  <Char> you can write the ectoplasm branch for openttd :P
00:54:04  <AgentLeMan> sure... until the powersource fails......
00:54:29  <AgentLeMan> and then we even have a new katastrophe
00:56:15  <AgentLeMan> but..honestly Char...
00:56:19  <Aali> you could do that with a grf
00:56:25  <AgentLeMan> i rather want to write a roleplaying system for openttd
00:56:49  <AgentLeMan> so you can take over one of those passangers, evolve with it as it travels hte land
00:57:27  <AgentLeMan> wait... even better : 3D-openttd! °snickers insanely°
00:59:06  <AgentLeMan> Aali, my ethical restraints forbid to supply an oilrig with teenagers
00:59:07  <SmatZ> AgentLeMan: a little bit working, but would need a lot of work... and I am not really sure if this is the way OTTD should evolve
00:59:34  <AgentLeMan> SmatZ, it was really really an insane joke.
01:00:02  <SmatZ> :)
01:00:15  <AgentLeMan> oh
01:00:26  <AgentLeMan> you mean landlayers.
01:00:37  <AgentLeMan> i meant full 3D. ;o/
01:00:41  <SmatZ> ah
01:00:56  <SmatZ> there was one... conversion for mobile phones
01:00:57  <DaleStan> George_: Most likely, you've set Info version 4 or 5. Info versions 4 and 5 don't have includes.
01:01:16  <SmatZ> I don't remember its name now
01:01:22  <AgentLeMan> landlayers would be actually nice, if not even needed for subways  (? )
01:02:25  <SmatZ> with current tile system, you have only one layer of tiles
01:02:35  <AgentLeMan> SmatZ, well, if you need someone to test stuff...
01:02:40  <Char> lol
01:02:43  <Char> hmmm
01:02:56  <SmatZ> tunnels and bridges may look like as an exception, but they are represented only by their two ends
01:03:04  <SmatZ> :)
01:03:10  <Char> yeah
01:03:12  <AgentLeMan> i worked just recently 4 hours just to find out, why a train reverses and the other one not
01:03:14  <Char> not like in locomotion
01:03:16  <Char> then again
01:03:20  <Char> the locomotion stuff sucks
01:03:22  <Char> kinda
01:03:32  <AgentLeMan> also i tried to find out, why heliports explode so darnly
01:03:42  <Char> ?
01:03:43  <SmatZ> explode? heliports?
01:03:47  <Char> heliports explode?
01:03:51  <AgentLeMan> locomotion? °snickers° what a poor excuse to make money
01:04:01  <Char> well
01:04:05  <Char> i didnt like it either
01:04:16  <Char> apart from that, i failed in like the 9th level or so
01:04:20  <AgentLeMan> well, i put in a well working city a heliport and it has masses of passengers after a short time
01:04:34  <AgentLeMan> Char, i just took a quick look and trashed it
01:04:48  <AgentLeMan> same wit hthe toher "new" ttd... uhm.. railroads or so
01:05:02  <AgentLeMan> "the other"
01:06:38  <AgentLeMan> and... as more and more games come out/are converted to the consoles, it also gets more simple. "megamicromanagament" ( ;o) ) is out. games are advertised with "gamehours needed/included"...
01:07:47  <AgentLeMan> ( personal opinion, not proven fact )
01:08:18  * SmatZ is happy with old games
01:08:22  <AgentLeMan> aye
01:09:27  <AgentLeMan> which reminds me... hadnt looked at the new carrier command since some time
01:13:56  <Char> which reminds me of the game with the coolest exit words i have ever seen :P
01:15:25  <AgentLeMan> oh, game with the cooolest deathsound/sentence? battlefield 1942 - in a dying down voice "nÀÀÀchstes mal" °laughs°
01:16:13  <Char> "Congratulations. You are now the bridge building champion. People now look at you with respect and admiration. Your bridges have brought peace and joy to the earth, Iowa, and the moon. Happy days are ahead of you."
01:16:50  <Char> "Visit the Bridge Builder website for contests, unpdates, and the meaning of life (coming soon)."
01:16:53  <AgentLeMan> °snickers°
01:17:21  <Char> the meaning of life still isnt online, bte
01:17:22  <Char> btw
01:17:37  <AgentLeMan> we should gather money to buy their sourcecode
01:18:01  <AgentLeMan> then, if you want to build a bridge in openttd, that "bridge builder" gets started as a minigame
01:19:10  <AgentLeMan> and Char?
01:19:41  <AgentLeMan> "the meaning of life still isnt online" it really isnt. and i dont mean that website...
01:22:12  <Char> well
01:22:15  <Char> that game is free
01:22:31  <Char> i guess you could get their sourcecode if you asked them nicely
01:22:49  <Char> besides: lol
01:22:58  <Char> hmmm
01:23:00  <Char> another question
01:23:08  <Char> how do you guys manage your music?
01:23:14  <Char> it seems to me that i got way too much music
01:23:23  <Char> however, with storage space being that damn cheap
01:23:23  <AgentLeMan> manage? i store it. done.
01:23:30  <Char> i see no reason to delete any
01:23:35  <AgentLeMan> yip
01:23:42  <Char> but i need to get some kind of sorting into it :/
01:23:44  <AgentLeMan> no reason either to burn it
01:23:57  <AgentLeMan> ( on discs i mean )
01:24:02  <AgentLeMan> "onto"
01:24:03  <Char> well
01:24:12  <Char> if i wanted to burn it on usual CDs
01:24:22  <Char> it would take a while
01:24:28  <AgentLeMan> but what i really lok out for is a player that doesnt crash with 20K files
01:24:41  <Char> hmmm
01:24:47  <Char> does winamp do that?
01:24:56  <Char> how many files do you have?
01:25:01  <AgentLeMan> AND has a nice, comfy palylistmanagment
01:25:08  <AgentLeMan> winamp, oh please...
01:25:11  <Char> winamp doesnt?
01:25:15  <Char> why?
01:25:20  <Char> whats wrong with it?
01:26:11  <AgentLeMan> i just dont like it. i use since 5 years or so a player im totally satisifed with. it just wont work with many files.
01:27:12  <AgentLeMan> and i prefer to have just a tiny bar as controlGUI, winamps is TOO tiny.
01:27:40  <AgentLeMan> also i dont need its internetradio/tv-aspect
01:28:17  <AgentLeMan> its really just a matter of preference. im not into flamewars.
01:31:25  <Char> hmmm
01:31:39  <Char> which player do you use?
01:32:03  <Char> you know, i am not like a winamp fanboy or sth, i just wanted to know what you think is wrong with it ;)
01:33:12  <Char> and if there is a better player, i am always happy to know
01:33:20  <AgentLeMan> there isnt womething "wrong" with it
01:34:44  <AgentLeMan> i just prefer it sleek and fit to the purpose, thats why i use the quintessential player with a special "skin", which, compared to winamp also changes the form of the gui, not just like laying a picture over it
01:37:09  <Char> hmmm
01:37:21  <Char> i guess the newer skins do something similar in winamp
01:37:24  <Char> but i am not sure
01:37:34  <Char> doesnt matter anyway ;)
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02:24:34  <Administrador> Tired of black people?  Join us at" target="_blank"> and learn more about these feral simian beasts!  This is not a skinhead or white supremacist organization.  Asians, Jews, Mexicans, and any non-congoloid ethnic group is welcome to unite.  HUMANS vs NIGGGERS" target="_blank">
02:25:04  <AgentLeMan> oO
02:25:30  <AgentLeMan> whats this then?
02:26:02  <Char> wheeeeeee??!
02:26:15  <Char> non-congoloid
02:26:16  <Char> ?
02:26:26  <Char> feral simian breasts?!?
02:26:33  <AgentLeMan> someone ban, burn, castrate, tar and feather, drown and shoot that bastard please?
02:26:51  <Char> in that order?
02:27:05  *** Fuco [] has quit [Quit: Quit]
02:27:07  <AgentLeMan> i dont care, just eradicate
02:27:28  <Char> we'd need an op here
02:27:42  <Administrador> Tired of black people?  Join us at" target="_blank"> and learn more about these feral simian beasts!  This is not a skinhead or white supremacist organization.  Asians, Jews, Mexicans, and any non-congoloid ethnic group is welcome to unite.  HUMANS vs NIGGGERS" target="_blank">
02:28:02  <Char> i woud say
02:28:07  <Char> humans vs Administrador
02:28:36  <AgentLeMan> well... it seems, no one cares.....
02:28:57  *** Administrador [~Administr@] has quit [autokilled: This host violated network policy. If you feel an error has been made, please contact, thanks. (2008-11-24 02:28:57)]
02:29:07  <Char> rofl
02:29:13  <Char> "autokilled"
02:29:51  <AgentLeMan> oh...
02:29:58  <AgentLeMan> nifty... late. but, nifty
02:30:10  <AgentLeMan> tsk
02:30:48  <AgentLeMan> "the amount of intelligence on earth is limited. the amount of people not" seems again to be proven true.
02:32:58  <AgentLeMan> ah well, im off to bed then, have a nice day and/or night all :o)
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04:24:37  <George_> DaleStan: Info version 7
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05:30:02  <DaleStan> George_: Then the reader isn't choking on that line. 0.9.10 doesn't support all extensions. There should be a later one in the grfcodec thread.
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07:37:16  <AgentLeMan> morning :o)
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08:25:11  <Celestar> \o
08:25:38  <AgentLeMan> ball on ramp?
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08:26:24  <Celestar> AgentLeMan: no, a head and a waving hand :P
08:27:29  <AgentLeMan> oh, goodbye then, Celestar
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08:28:20  * Celestar pokes AgentLeMan with a blunt spoon
08:29:53  <AgentLeMan> °sprawls apart in many bleeding gibs, which bounce away on the floor°
08:30:59  <Gekz> Fallout 3.
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08:31:26  <Celestar> Star Trek VI :ÜP
08:31:46  <AgentLeMan> fallout 0
08:31:50  <AgentLeMan> (wasteland)
08:32:07  <Gekz> lol
08:32:10  <Gekz> wasteland sucked.
08:32:16  <Gekz> based on what I've read, it was boring
08:32:19  <Gekz> 8bit games were not awesome
08:32:26  <Gekz> no matter how much anyone would like to believe it
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08:34:05  <AgentLeMan> ah, yes
08:34:14  <AgentLeMan> we are of all stupid people with no taste
08:35:46  <petern> hmm?
08:36:14  <Gekz> AgentLeMan: openttd isn't 8bit.
08:36:15  <Gekz> lolk
08:36:29  <AgentLeMan> °rolls eyes°
08:36:42  <Gekz> if you're going to emote, do it right.
08:36:49  <Gekz> openttd isn't 8bit.
08:36:56  <AgentLeMan> °doublerolls eyes°
08:37:06  <Gekz> You're a silly frenchman aren't you
08:37:07  <Gekz> :/
08:38:48  <petern> some "8 bit" games definitely were awesome
08:39:02  <Gekz> petern: define
08:40:37  <AgentLeMan> °laughs°
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08:41:59  <Gekz> petern: seriously, you cant say that without saying a game that is 8bit and awesome
08:42:33  <petern> elite
08:42:38  <petern> repton :D
08:42:46  <petern> simcity
08:43:26  <Gekz> elite wasnt good on 8bit
08:43:29  <Gekz> it was terrible
08:44:01  <Gekz> the Amiga version was good though
08:44:01  <AgentLeMan> °deletes all his c64 stuff,m because hes now judged as uncool and worthless°
08:44:12  <Gekz> c64 is unworthy.
08:44:26  <AgentLeMan> yes, master.
08:44:31  <Gekz> damn straight.
08:45:16  <Gekz> <3 Baldurs Gate
08:45:47  <petern> firetrack was awesome :D
08:45:48  <petern> shit
08:45:54  <petern> gonna be late for work now :(
08:46:06  <AgentLeMan> still an unstressy day to you then, pter
08:46:08  <AgentLeMan> +e
08:46:13  <Patrick> bubble bobble on the c64
08:46:20  <AgentLeMan> patrick, YAY
08:46:22  <AgentLeMan> :o))
08:46:31  <Patrick> took me like fucking 12 years to beat it
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08:49:21  <Celestar> hm ..
08:49:34  <Celestar> I find it interesting how little time a stopover in an ICE3 costs
08:49:42  <Celestar> on a 300km/h Track
08:50:12  <mrfrenzy> well, they have many doors ;)
08:50:48  <planetmaker> morning
08:51:09  <AgentLeMan> Patrick, i liked elite as copilot, not so much stress with thargoids, just well, my boss, the pilot (played it with a firend in coop) at some day freaked out, because i was too triggerhappy on the e-bombs
08:51:14  <AgentLeMan> morning planetmaker
08:52:57  <Celestar> morning planetmaker
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08:53:44  <planetmaker> :) I hope you all had a nice weekend - just like me
08:53:57  <planetmaker> .uhh... it's snowing... again
08:54:26  <planetmaker> So I guess I was lucky I took the train yesterday :)
08:54:35  <planetmaker> even though I arrived 2 hours late...
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08:55:06  <planetmaker> all those broken ICE3 are a real pain... :S
08:55:36  <planetmaker> ICE xy is canceled. Replacement IC ab is 30 minutes late...
08:56:15  <planetmaker> Next announcement then was "Regionalbahn 22355 is 25 minutes late due to engine damage"... haha...
08:58:55  <AgentLeMan> did you informed the stationofficer, their serviceintervals may have been set to % instead of days?
09:00:52  <planetmaker> :D would probably been have good ;)
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09:01:32  <planetmaker> at least they were surprisingly friendly.
09:02:13  <AgentLeMan> i love how they sometimes jooke around when making the next station or the end of the trip known via the interkom
09:03:30  <Celestar> planetmaker: the broken ones are the ICE-T
09:04:00  <planetmaker> ok, maybe those. I'm not sure what kind of ICE travels between Munich and Berlin :)
09:04:12  <Celestar> ICE-T
09:04:16  <Celestar> used them
09:04:16  <Celestar> (=
09:04:17  <planetmaker> :)
09:04:35  <Celestar> I really need to decide whether to try the TGV from Munich to Paris or not
09:04:39  <planetmaker> I would have yesterday, too, but... alas.
09:04:48  <planetmaker> but sure I did when I still lived in Jena :)
09:05:04  <Celestar> Jena Paradies :D
09:05:11  <planetmaker> hehe. Yeah :)
09:05:20  <planetmaker> In summer it's actually quite nice there.
09:05:25  <planetmaker> Kind of city park.
09:05:39  <planetmaker> nice place for BBQ
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09:05:49  <Celestar> I quite agree
09:06:02  <Celestar> had friends in Lobeda
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09:10:00  <planetmaker> :)
09:10:30  <planetmaker> if it is Lobeda - that's a nice place. If it's Lobeda West or Lobeda Ost ... they're not the nicest place on Earth. But cheap flats out there...
09:16:04  <Celestar> West
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09:18:23  <Celestar> and no, it's not a nice place :P
09:18:33  <Celestar> hence they moved away
09:19:09  <Celestar> SpaceX did they first full-length test firing of the Falcon 9 LV \o/
09:20:34  <appe> you have way to many trains when a 1024x256 lags.
09:20:35  <appe> :<
09:20:44  <Gekz> lolo
09:20:47  <Gekz> too*
09:21:08  <planetmaker> he, that news about SpaceX sounds good :)
09:21:16  <Celestar> yes
09:21:29  <Celestar>  million  10 ton launcher
09:21:31  <Celestar> man rated
09:21:38  <Celestar> engine-out capability on the first stage
09:21:47  <Celestar> reusable first stage
09:21:56  <planetmaker> hehe. Man-rated is to be seen, I'd say ;)
09:22:15  <Celestar> man-rating is a design process
09:22:18  <planetmaker> what's the exact definition of that term actually?
09:22:29  <Celestar> I'm not quite sure about the requirements
09:22:33  <appe> "man-rating"?
09:22:34  <Celestar> the ATV is man-rated for example
09:22:39  <Celestar> the Ariane 5 is man-ratable
09:22:55  <Celestar> appe: man-rating means a space vehicle is suitable and certified for carrying human beings
09:23:00  <appe> aha
09:23:17  <appe> i thought it was a measure of cost*weight
09:23:27  <appe> manly man man vehichle.
09:23:29  <appe> :D
09:23:32  <Celestar> :P
09:24:01  <planetmaker> hm... thx. Me goes looking at wiki...
09:24:09  <Celestar> planetmaker: about ?
09:24:10  <thingwath> human being is, say, 100 kg, that is not so much, isn't it?
09:24:21  <Celestar> no it's not
09:24:30  <Celestar> but most human beings need life support :P
09:24:54  <appe> life support weighs in a bit more then the actual weight of the human
09:25:13  <Celestar> plus consumables
09:25:16  <Celestar> about 1kg per man-day
09:25:16  <planetmaker> about "man rated". But wiki doesn't know more than you expressed in that one line ;)
09:25:36  <Celestar> it is unfortunately a very diffuse term
09:25:55  <Celestar> however, the Falcon 9 is designed to carry a crew of 7 to the ISS and similar orbits
09:26:32  <AgentLeMan> hi appe, and yes, too many trains ;o)
09:26:48  <appe> AgentLeMan: morning.
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09:28:13  <Celestar> planetmaker: earlier this year, SpaceX became the first company to launch a privately funded and developed liquid fuel rocket to Orbit
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09:28:54  <planetmaker> was it them who won the X-price?
09:29:03  <Celestar> nope, they came much later.
09:29:15  <Celestar> but they won a 280-million dollar COTS contract by NASA
09:29:27  <planetmaker> :) ah... I remember reading that.
09:29:34  <appe> i wish my rockets would go to orbit one day
09:29:35  <Celestar> if everything goes well, they'll resupply the ISS from 2011 on.
09:29:44  <planetmaker> new infrastructure for OpenTTD: spaceport
09:30:03  <planetmaker> accepts: goods, food, oil (or plastics and fuel oil)
09:30:18  <Celestar> ACTUALLY Denver international airport was designed with a spaceport in mind :P
09:30:20  <planetmaker> also: tourists :)
09:30:36  <Celestar> hence its enourmous size
09:30:39  <Celestar> enormous*
09:30:45  <planetmaker> availability: within 50 tiles of a town of >30k
09:31:02  <planetmaker> and date > 1970
09:31:25  <Celestar> I still refuse to accept the german word of "Weltraumbahnhof" :P
09:31:48  <planetmaker> why? It's a nice and appropriate term, isn't it?
09:31:52  <Celestar> Raumhafen
09:32:01  <planetmaker> well... yes. Probably better :)
09:32:12  <Celestar> because it more works like a port than a station
09:32:19  <dihedral> # pm: get to work :-P
09:32:19  <dihedral> bash: pm:: command not found
09:32:19  <appe> how do i make a scenario editor map in 2048x2048?
09:32:21  <planetmaker> yup, I agree.
09:32:26  <Celestar> it's Flughafen, not Luftbahnhof :P
09:32:33  <planetmaker> dihedral: hehe ;)
09:33:03  <DASPRiD> dihedriert :)
09:33:16  <appe> when pressing the scenario editor button, it directly takes me to a 1024x256 map
09:33:20  <AgentLeMan> yip, "weltraum" somehow smells ugly
09:34:00  <thingwath> I like "kosmodrom", you can't beat that with some port or station :o)
09:34:11  * appe doesnt understand
09:34:31  <appe> ah
09:34:33  <appe> fixed it
09:34:35  <planetmaker> moin DASPRiD
09:34:42  <DASPRiD> moin pm
09:34:50  <DASPRiD> <3
09:38:21  <DASPRiD> Celestar, "weltraumbahnhof" o.0
09:42:14  <appe> bah
09:42:25  <appe> i need to make myself a better de-limer for the espresso machines
09:44:09  <appe> i just found a bug!
09:44:32  <AgentLeMan> in your coffee?
09:45:03  <appe> when starting up a scenario editor á 1024x1024, i wanted to create "many random industries". when pressing the button at the same time as i held ctrl down (by accident) closed the program.
09:45:15  <appe> bug or not, it sure isnt any vista function.
09:45:16  <appe> :>
09:45:18  <AgentLeMan> and yes, found bugs mostly sit on a chair in front of the pc ;o)
09:45:23  <appe> hehe
09:46:40  <appe> if i ever find a bug in my precious espresso machine.
09:46:42  <DASPRiD> AgentLeMan, huge bugs :x
09:46:49  <DASPRiD> i bet your watched too much starship troopers
09:48:02  <AgentLeMan> °grins° nah, i hate it when the nice gals die
09:48:16  <AgentLeMan> adn them were darn nice
09:50:23  <AgentLeMan> appe?
09:50:52  <AgentLeMan> as you clicked there with CTRL...
09:51:01  <AgentLeMan> did you got the "town required" error?=
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09:51:51  <Patrick> they were darn nice
09:51:54  <AgentLeMan> on win 32 and latest nightly, without a town it works, you get that error. with a town, you get as expected "many industries"
09:51:55  <Patrick> but were they gosh-darned
09:52:12  <Patrick> ooh a bug a bug a bug
09:53:18  <AgentLeMan> "get that error" means you get the "town required"-errorwindow. sory for being unclear
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10:38:33  <AgentLeMan> hmm, out of a caution : how do i move or delete an tortoise SVN-directorytree? im not getting a clear picture out of the helpfile
10:38:46  <AgentLeMan> a local one i mean, the one i use for compiling
10:41:16  <appe> holy moly
10:41:20  <appe> it was a vista function
10:41:21  <appe> :D
10:41:27  <AgentLeMan> °laughs°
10:41:31  <AgentLeMan> nifty?
10:42:24  <AgentLeMan> hm
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10:56:12  <appe> (last year: ,564,552)
10:56:20  <appe> longest train ive ever built. :>
10:56:25  <AgentLeMan> °breaths°
10:57:23  <FauxFaux> You're probably playing with inflation on, though, so that's entirely meaningless. :p
10:57:41  <appe> inflation is off.
10:57:43  <appe> :(
10:58:07  <FauxFaux> \o/
10:58:49  <mrfrenzy> for some insane income figures you should try long maglevs running pax and valuables ;)
11:01:00  <appe> pax?
11:01:02  <appe> AH
11:01:05  <appe> this is coal.
11:03:32  <mrfrenzy> well coal is great to get starting income, but once you can afford to build bigger networks, there are much more profitable cargo
11:03:45  <mrfrenzy> as always, check the graph ,)
11:20:39  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14617 /trunk/src/ (strgen/strgen.cpp strgen/strgen.h strings.cpp): -Change: unduplicate the languagepack(header).
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11:33:53  <Gekz> I need cheap dedicated hosting
11:36:16  <Qball> I need 10 million dollar
11:36:35  <AgentLeMan> is cheap hosting
11:38:44  * Celestar has dedicated hosting for about 50 EUR a month
11:38:56  * Qball has donated hosting
11:44:11  <FauxFaux> Why dedicated and not VM?
11:44:38  <mrfrenzy> because of the price/performance
11:45:07  <FauxFaux> Obviously we have differing definitons of "cheap".
11:46:22  <petern> when everyone gets their electricity bills, dedicated hosting costs will go :p
11:46:26  <petern> er
11:46:27  <petern> up :p
11:48:10  <Gekz> I'd host it from home
11:48:18  <Gekz> except I dont have a persistent connection
11:48:24  <Gekz> and I have crappy speeds
11:48:29  <Gekz> and 50 EUR is too steep for me
11:48:44  <Gekz> I have an inferior currency
11:49:14  <petern> an average server costs around €35 a month in power
11:50:04  <Gekz> your power is expensive >_>
11:50:13  <Gekz> ours costs about half that
11:53:18  <tokai> try some less power consuming hardware:)
11:53:34  <tokai> usually home servers don't have to be some power++ monster machines;)
11:53:48  <Gekz> I just need a consumer machine hosted somewhere else
11:53:50  <Gekz> that's all I ask
11:53:51  <Gekz> -.-
11:53:54  <Gekz> is it too much?
11:54:02  <Gekz> I swear I want to start a socialist union of technology
11:54:10  <Gekz> where everything is run at cost.
11:55:16  <petern> won't work
11:55:59  <Gekz> why not
11:56:56  <petern> people won't do anything if there's no profit in it
11:57:30  <Gekz> not true.
11:57:42  <Gekz> if it feeds their family, many people are content.
12:00:04  <appe> one will say
12:00:16  <appe> one is very pleased about buying a kilogram of brie cheese.
12:00:41  <Gekz> 1KG?
12:00:46  <Gekz> Share.
12:00:47  <appe> yep.
12:01:03  <appe> it comes so cheap, therefor a kilo was bought to the friday meal
12:01:08  <appe> wich was delicious.
12:01:13  <Gekz> lol
12:01:17  <appe> and all the breakfeasts after that.
12:01:18  <appe> :D
12:02:05  * appe grabs a loaf of greek bread and smashes on a giant slice of cheese
12:02:27  <AgentLeMan> if it feeds their family, = profit
12:02:27  <Gekz> you are french
12:02:37  <appe> i am? :<
12:02:41  <Gekz> appe: surely
12:02:41  <AgentLeMan> yip
12:02:44  <AgentLeMan> we allll are
12:02:52  <AgentLeMan> he says it, so it must be true
12:02:59  <appe> i would like to be
12:03:05  <Gekz> I wish Australia was colonised by france
12:03:09  <Gekz> and not england
12:03:13  <Gekz> but didnt have french law
12:03:21  <appe> et je le parle couramment
12:03:23  <appe> :>
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12:05:01  <Gekz> un peu
12:05:18  <Zahl> slt
12:05:32  <Celestar> heh.
12:05:47  <Celestar> next week, I might have the chance to directly compare the TGV to the ICE :D
12:06:38  <Gekz> lol
12:06:38  <Zahl> ice is more comfy, but tgv goest faster :)
12:06:56  <Gekz> you've never tried public transport until you've used CityRail
12:07:26  <Zahl> i heard some bad things about it
12:10:27  <Gekz> lol
12:10:31  <Gekz> I nearly got arrested
12:10:36  <Gekz> for riding without a ticker
12:10:38  <Gekz> ticket* as a student
12:10:55  <Gekz> they refused to give me one at the beginning of the year on the grounds that "a bus passes your house once every 12 hours"
12:11:43  <AgentLeMan> °sighs° so many chances, yet unused.
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12:18:03  <petern> ah, my leccy bill
12:18:15  <petern> 72 days, 825 kWh
12:18:20  <Gekz> lol.
12:18:21  <appe> :o
12:18:23  <Gekz> feck
12:18:36  <petern> so... 11 kWh a day? :o
12:19:30  <Doorslammer> Is that why they built that coal-fired power station behind your house?
12:20:02  <appe> yes, pretty much.
12:20:19  <petern> one of our data centre bills is for 5500 kWh in a month
12:20:53  <appe> (72*24=)1728*825
12:20:54  <appe> :>
12:21:06  <appe> petern: holy christ
12:21:11  <petern> appe, no
12:21:18  <petern> 825 / 72 / 24
12:21:45  <appe> oh
12:21:52  <appe> kwh=W*H
12:22:10  <appe> ajh
12:22:11  <appe> ah
12:22:12  <appe> yes
12:22:12  <appe> :D
12:22:14  <appe> excuse me
12:22:19  <appe> ill return to cleaning the apart.
12:22:27  * Zahl excuses appe
12:22:51  <petern> :)
12:23:03  <appe> a 200W pc uses 1kwh per five hours
12:23:09  <petern> yeah
12:23:09  <appe> your server is a bit louder then that.
12:23:10  <appe> :e
12:23:21  <petern> oh, well, that's my whole house :p
12:23:30  <petern> and there are no servers in there
12:24:34  <Zahl> living in a dorm where you don't have to pay for gas/water/power ftw \o/
12:24:44  <appe> <@petern> one of our data centre bills is for 5500 kWh in a month
12:24:45  <appe> ahaa
12:24:47  <appe> data centre
12:25:02  <appe> i read that as one pc
12:25:03  <appe> :<<
12:25:04  <petern> appe, a bill from the data centre, not for a whole data centre :)
12:25:12  <petern> it's only 5 racks worth in there
12:26:02  <appe> o
12:26:29  <appe> so: hours of the month = 720. 5500/720?
12:26:35  <appe> i still suck balls at math. :(
12:26:53  <appe> ohno
12:26:54  <petern> yeah
12:27:13  <petern> about 7.6 kW
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12:27:26  <appe> for five racks?
12:27:30  <petern> yeah
12:27:31  <appe> neato.
12:27:36  <petern> that's not that bad
12:27:57  * appe is a p3 733MHz and doesnt really get in to 100.
12:27:57  <appe> top 100*
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12:28:24  <appe> i was actually suprised when i measured it, and discoverd that it never jumps over 65W
12:29:02  <petern> hmm, actually
12:29:13  <petern> we get 1kW per rack inclusive
12:29:34  <petern> so it's 12.6 kW
12:29:50  <petern> 2.5 kW per rack, that's more like it
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12:35:03  <petern> also
12:35:12  <petern> why do they have to use two-tier pricing :o
12:35:48  <petern> it's not like it's accurate :o
12:39:03  <petern> hmm, i wonder if i can replace a solenoid flow valve with a motorised one...
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12:52:06  <Celestar> :o a new dwarf planet has been found in our own solar system
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12:54:08  <petern> pluto!
12:54:21  <Gekz> lol
12:54:28  <Gekz> petern: you made me chuckle
12:59:01  <AgentLeMan> Celestar, vanity fair has found secret photos of Oprah Winfrey, before her diet?
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13:01:52  <Celestar> pfft
13:04:11  <Celestar> who the fuck cares about pseudo-celebrities and their morbid affairs?
13:04:56  <AgentLeMan> uhm... i conclude, you didnt made the connection to "new dwarf planet found"
13:05:19  <Celestar> I see a failed attempt at a connection :P
13:05:38  <AgentLeMan> her bum...
13:05:55  <AgentLeMan> anyways, too late now
13:06:19  <Celestar> well, I haven't seen her in years, so the planetary discriminant of her bum is unknown to me :P
13:06:57  <AgentLeMan> i wouldnt even klnow, if shes still alive.
13:07:13  <Celestar> heh .. welcome to the club
13:07:16  <Celestar> s/know/care
13:08:06  <AgentLeMan> °tries to decode Celestar°
13:08:27  <Celestar> regexp ...
13:08:36  <planetmaker> the preferred language for that is probably brainfuck... ;)
13:08:45  <Celestar> O_o
13:08:53  <SpComb> no regexps in brainfuck
13:08:59  <planetmaker> ... or are you easily decryptable, Celestar ? :)
13:09:05  * Celestar wags finger at planetmaker :D
13:09:09  <planetmaker> I hope for you not :)
13:09:23  <planetmaker> static ip... you should get it resolved ;)
13:09:34  <Celestar> I'm LGPL v3 :P
13:09:39  <planetmaker> :P
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13:09:57  <planetmaker> that's nice. I may clone you and sell those for money :)
13:10:08  <Celestar> planetmaker: our new admins managed to mess up my DNS server
13:10:15  <planetmaker> :S
13:10:47  <Celestar> who would want to purchase clones of me? openttd players to code their wanted features?
13:10:51  <planetmaker> but sure that's good (for them): it demonstrates their usefulness and makes their job indispensible :P
13:11:03  <planetmaker> Celestar: sure, why not?
13:11:19  <Celestar> family members who would like to see more of me ...
13:11:27  <blathijs> I guess it would be cheaper and more effective to just pay Celestar for OpenTTD coding :-)
13:11:34  <blathijs> Or any other dev, for that matter :-p
13:11:40  <planetmaker> you shouldn't mix your instances... it may lead to ressource conflicts...
13:11:43  <Celestar> blathijs: that depends on the amount of clones, doesn't it?
13:12:54  <blathijs> :-)
13:14:56  * Celestar guesses planetmaker has a business case
13:15:15  <planetmaker> :)
13:15:32  <appe> i just realized something
13:15:33  <planetmaker> now I just need some millions to get the startup going :P
13:15:39  <appe> i have the greatest business deal ever.
13:15:56  <appe> hiring myself out as a mcdonalds hamburger driver.
13:16:15  <appe> i take a buck for every time i get burgers to peoples homes
13:16:28  <appe> and by statistics it should be profitable
13:16:33  <appe> really, really profitable.
13:16:34  <appe> :D
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13:20:33  <planetmaker> eh... ? Sure about that, appe ? Count me out as your customer :)
13:22:28  <AgentLeMan> at the latest, you would go bancrupt, the day MCD invents an "all you can eat" day, so your running costs (fuel, used car, seatcleaner-agent) increase more than you can make profit from the 1 $ / burger-scheme
13:23:04  <maka> maybe you can make a tryout in ttd :]
13:23:13  <AgentLeMan> hmmm
13:24:11  <AgentLeMan> maka, how did you know, i was just trying to set up a business, where i supply pax-transport to a 5000-people city with just some ( 50+) volkswagen beetle?
13:24:54  <maka> hehe :D
13:26:05  <AgentLeMan> now though im trying to find out, why the aviators planeset always has pink colorerrors when i use it :o(
13:28:19  <AgentLeMan> oh... that happens, if one ( not you, appe ) uses the windows palette oO
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13:51:13  * Celestar shakes his head in utter disbeleif
13:51:19  <Celestar> disbelief*
13:52:04  <Celestar> they're releasing a terrorist and murderer from prison
13:52:13  <Gekz> where.
13:52:16  <Celestar> Germany.
13:52:30  <mrfrenzy> how long has he been in there?
13:52:51  <Celestar> 26 years
13:53:11  <Gekz> he's already dead.
13:53:28  <mrfrenzy> isn't that punishment enough then?
13:53:52  * planetmaker nods
13:54:12  <Celestar> for someone who hasn't even apologized for his murders? never.
13:54:24  <mrfrenzy> hopefully they have treated whatever psycological problems he had before letting him out
13:54:42  <Celestar> he didn't have any psycho problems.
13:54:47  <Celestar> he is a terrorist.
13:54:52  <Gekz> leave him in there.
13:55:12  <Rubidium> so if he would have said: "I'm sorry" it is okay to release him? Is that really a measure?
13:55:48  * Celestar thinks remorse is the most basic requirement for release someone from prison prematurely
13:55:56  <Gekz> yep
13:55:59  <Gekz> it should be
13:56:06  <Gekz> non-parole for no remorse
13:56:22  <Rubidium> but you can't tell whether someone actually means what (s)he says
13:56:27  <Gekz> so?
13:56:30  <Belugas> "No Remorse, No regret, We don't care, what a mess"
13:56:30  <Celestar> so basically, for each murder he commited, he got less than 3 years.
13:56:37  <Gekz> those that are adamant that they dont care can stay in
13:56:56  <AgentLeMan> °waves°
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13:59:24  <Rubidium> so they do in volume rebates?
13:59:30  <Celestar> Rubidium: yes, they do
13:59:54  <Celestar> the more people you kill, they cheaper you get it ..
14:00:23  <petern> Celestar, they do tend to release people after their terms are up
14:00:28  <Rubidium> don't forget to get drunk, then you get a massive rebate too
14:00:32  <petern> apologies don't come into it
14:00:38  <petern> however
14:00:41  <petern> i have just merged railtypes
14:00:47  * petern ponders actually merging it some day
14:01:18  <Celestar> petern: he got five times Life Imprisonment.
14:01:53  <petern> concurrent? heh
14:03:22  <Celestar> :P
14:04:49  <planetmaker> [14:58]	* Celestar	thinks remorse is the most basic requirement for release someone from prison prematurely <--- doesn't really help. It's easy to fake...
14:05:07  *** Tefad [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:06:00  <planetmaker> more important IMO is "will the person do it again". Which psychologist say in this case "won't"
14:06:48  <planetmaker> petern: go, go. MOOORE FEATURES :)
14:07:34  *** M4rk [] has joined #openttd
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14:09:55  <Celestar> planetmaker: I "do not sure your optimistic appraisal of the situation"
14:09:59  <Celestar> s/sure/share
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14:10:34  <planetmaker> Celestar: I'm not a psychologist. I didn't write the reports.
14:11:17  * DASPRiD waves at pm
14:11:22  * planetmaker waves back
14:11:30  * DASPRiD waves back again
14:11:40  <Celestar> planetmaker: if a phsychologist can find out whether he'll do it again, he can find out whether the remore is faked or not
14:11:51  <planetmaker> Celestar: probably :)
14:11:56  <Celestar> it's even easier since it involves no guessing the future
14:13:37  <planetmaker> but I think that's less important than a probability to do it again.
14:13:53  <Celestar> heh. I think both are mandatory
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14:20:16  <Celestar> heh.
14:20:20  <Celestar> glaciers on Mars
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14:43:05  <Sacro> have fun chaps
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14:58:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> "what is the value of the expression '5//3'" <- that's evil :p
14:59:26  <Rubidium> yup, that people don't see that ;)
15:00:15  <Rubidium> the last bonus question's also evil, but so dead simple
15:03:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's like the tests that say "to pass this test, you only have to answer the last question" :p
15:08:26  <planetmaker> [16:01]	<Eddi|zuHause2>	"what is the value of the expression '5//3'" <- that's evil :p <--- what is it, asks pm, the uninitiated...
15:08:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> 5 is an expression, and //3 is a comment ;)
15:08:55  <planetmaker> autsch! yes, sure.
15:09:11  <yorick> that's pure evil!
15:13:39  <yorick> "(34 > 19)" :o
15:13:55  <yorick> true
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15:15:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think 5 is the only question with educational value
15:15:54  <MaxxJuggs> <--- has anyone downloaded and installed this patch?
15:17:20  <MaxxJuggs> I downloaded that .zip file yesterday and extracted it in my openttd folder overwriting "openttd.exe" and one file in lang directory. after that the game won't start. do I need some other programs to install that patch correctly?
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15:18:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> the files in the data-directory, too
15:19:23  <MaxxJuggs> hmm. what files?
15:19:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> and if you only overwrite english.lng, you can't use any languages other than english
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15:20:13  <MaxxJuggs> but is that the correct way to install that patch? just extract that .zip file in to the folder?
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15:22:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but you need the correct base version, you cannot just overwrite 0.6.3 files, you need the appropriate nightly files
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15:23:25  <MaxxJuggs> hmm. where I can get those files? for 0.6.3 version I mean?
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15:24:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can't
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15:24:08  <MaxxJuggs> oh? :)
15:24:55  <Eddi|zuHause> you can only overwrite the files which have the same revision as the patched binary
15:26:08  <MaxxJuggs> ok. what should I do to get this patch to work? download another version or what? the game speed is way too fast currently with new machines
15:26:32  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to go to the nightly archive and download a nightly around r14293
15:26:45  <Rubidium> the game doesn't run faster when you computer gets faster
15:27:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yes it does, the game was waaaay slower with 80 trains on my 386 DX-25 :p
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15:27:53  <MaxxJuggs> <--- I guess it's not that one?
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15:28:59  <Eddi|zuHause> no, you need the archives for old nightlies
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15:30:04  <Eddi|zuHause> <- like this one
15:31:08  <Eddi|zuHause> extract that over your 0.6.3 build, and then extract the patched binary over this one
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15:31:20  <MaxxJuggs> do I have to download all those files or only that 3,7 megabytes file?
15:31:31  <Eddi|zuHause> only the one that says "win32"
15:31:48  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, doesn't have one
15:31:50  <Eddi|zuHause> bad luck
15:32:26  <MaxxJuggs> :(
15:32:32  <Eddi|zuHause> but you should only need the files in data/ from the archive, it should be fine
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15:33:55  <MaxxJuggs> there ain't no data folder inside ot that 3,7 megabytes .zip file
15:34:15  <Eddi|zuHause> bin/data
15:34:21  <MaxxJuggs> aaah
15:34:22  <MaxxJuggs> ok
15:35:44  <MaxxJuggs> so I should now copy the contents of that bin/data folder to my 0.6.3 data folder and then apply that day lenght patch?
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15:37:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
15:37:37  <MaxxJuggs> hmm. i guess it's not good to overwrite that lang file because I want the text to be Finnish? :)
15:38:25  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could also find a strgen.exe [should be _somewhere_ on the forum] and compile finnish.txt from that archive
15:38:28  <gynter> hmm
15:38:36  <gynter> 1,5 meters of snow... good
15:38:56  <Eddi|zuHause> we have 3cm or so
15:40:14  <MaxxJuggs> hmm. I guess it didn't work. day goes by at around 2-3 seconds in the game :S
15:40:35  <gynter> heh
15:41:06  <gynter> from yesterday night till today morning about 2/3 of my county was without electricity
15:41:44  <gynter> (including me) :P moved to granny until power recovers
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15:51:26  <MaxxJuggs> is there any other way to make the game go slower than applying that day lenght patch?
15:52:28  <gynter> there is a day lenght patch ?
15:52:38  <gynter> hmm, I wanna make 12h = 1 yr
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15:53:41  <MaxxJuggs>
15:54:19  <Eddi|zuHause> MaxxJuggs: you need to change the daylength settigns in the advanced options
15:54:32  <MaxxJuggs> in the game?
15:55:18  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, in the game
15:56:23  <MaxxJuggs> I cannot find that option
15:56:39  <MaxxJuggs> I freshly installed the 0.6.3 version and the newest nightlies
15:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause> advanced settings, under economy tab, when you reapplied the daylength patch
15:57:26  *** Antdovu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:58:40  <Eddi|zuHause> (might still be called "patch settings" in that old patched exe)
16:00:22  <MaxxJuggs> yeah. now I got it to work
16:00:26  <MaxxJuggs> it was pretty easy after all
16:00:57  <MaxxJuggs> first install the 0.6.3 version, then install newest nightlies and finally the day lenght patch
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16:01:46  <Jango> Celestar, am i doing something stupid - when i compile cargodest and try to run it, I get a no available language packs error
16:02:04  <Jango> but there are language files in bin/lang
16:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe version mismatch?
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16:04:35  <MaxxJuggs> when the day lenght setting is at maximum one day takes about 1min10sec
16:04:40  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
16:05:26  <Eddi|zuHause> now go calculating what's 2s*32 in minutes ;)
16:05:39  <MaxxJuggs> yeah I know :)
16:05:48  <MaxxJuggs> I just wanted to mention that ;D
16:06:02  <MaxxJuggs> it's been about 15 years since I last played this game :)
16:06:35  <MaxxJuggs> now it's time to start enjoying it again. thanks for help Eddi|zuHause :)
16:10:12  <Celestar> back
16:10:21  <Celestar> Jango: er .. how did you check it out?
16:10:31  <Jango> from nightly
16:10:43  <Jango> grabbed source tarball
16:11:12  <Celestar> hm ..
16:11:37  <Celestar> the source tree works for me
16:11:56  <planetmaker> Jango: consider getting subversion or mercurial
16:12:07  <Jango> well, i've got svn
16:12:12  <Jango> just installing hg now
16:12:34  <Celestar> good
16:12:39  <Celestar> I've just merged from trunk (=
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16:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> how dare you! you ought to merge TO trunk! :)
16:13:57  <Celestar> I *guess* Rubidium will be pissed if I merge cargodest into trunk now :P
16:14:33  <planetmaker> :P
16:14:39  <Eddi|zuHause> he surely can't beat Tron at that :p
16:15:00  <planetmaker> was Tron a bit... short-tempered?
16:15:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure the history of the bridge branch was documented somewhere ;)
16:15:40  <Rubidium> Celestar: yes, I would get pissed
16:15:53  <petern> get drunk!
16:16:21  <Rubidium> but foremostly because you would then make my trunk savegame unloadable
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16:18:38  <petern> unloadable?
16:19:22  <Celestar> Rubidium: nope, not anymore afaik
16:19:49  <Rubidium> petern: the "Broken savegame - Invalid chunk size" kind of unloadable
16:20:12  <Rubidium> Celestar: then push whatever you've fixed in the last 9 minutes
16:20:17  <petern> ah, broken the golden rule again?
16:22:48  <Celestar> er .. oh :P
16:23:05  <Celestar> so where is it broken O_o
16:23:35  <Rubidium> trunk's version 103 and cargop's version 103
16:23:39  <Jango> ok, now this is working
16:24:14  <Celestar> heh.
16:24:20  <Celestar> I seem to have missed some SL revision bump ^^
16:24:59  <Celestar> but I'm heading out
16:25:01  <Celestar> cu later
16:25:02  <Celestar> :D
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16:25:14  <petern> i could merge rail types but it's still a bit WIP
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16:25:20  <petern> especially tunnels
16:27:54  <appe> extreme home makeover may be over nationalistic and such
16:27:57  <appe> but damn, they can build.
16:28:03  <Eddi|zuHause> different tunnel types, similar to bridge types, would be cool
16:28:06  <appe> 53 hours to build an entire house.
16:28:09  <appe> christ
16:28:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what "extreme ome makeover" is
16:28:54  <Eddi|zuHause> but a house built from predesigned plates is easily put up within 3 days
16:29:40  <Rubidium> you mean they usually build houses without designing them first? As it takes almost a year here...
16:32:58  <appe> building it from scratch is way cool. but this is for people who doesnt have anything. and building the house (with no pre-fab walls or such) in that time is rather heavy.
16:33:14  <appe> although, they are over 150-200 people that works 'round the clock.
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16:39:08  <Eddi|zuHause> building a (probably rather small) house in 10000man-hours is not a big problem either
16:39:58  <appe> at the same time?
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16:40:41  <Eddi|zuHause> not all problems can be solved faster by throwing more people at it, but construction work certainly is
16:40:42  <appe> ajl say nevar.
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16:41:46  <Eddi|zuHause> the question is, if they skip essential issues like hardening time for cement and stuff, will that house fall down after 1 year, 10 years, or 100 years
16:42:17  <appe> speed concrete may not be cheap, but it sure does the job.
16:42:32  <Eddi|zuHause> but who cares about 1 year later when you had a huge show effect...
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16:43:05  <Eddi|zuHause> and building a house is definitely cheaper than producing one episode of heroes
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16:44:15  <appe> one thing i have been thinking about
16:44:17  <appe> what about tax?
16:44:32  <appe> i guess americans pay extra tax on their house per square meter
16:45:58  <Eddi|zuHause> easy, just get a hypotheque on the house to pay the taxes :p
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16:46:20  <appe> and the electrical bills. they go from a shed to a big lighted house with pools and plasma tvs
16:46:36  <appe> i bet that new fridge costs more kwh then the original house. :E
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16:46:52  <appe> but then, i have no idea how big of a deal electrical prices are in the us.
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16:50:15  <petern> well they'd complain that they're expensive...
16:50:29  <petern> and they're probably about a 10th of everyone elses, heh
16:51:27  <Eddi|zuHause> well, america was built on the premise that land is cheap and energy is cheap
16:51:53  <appe> and thats still a bit wierd
16:51:57  <Eddi|zuHause> and both are continuously rising
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17:18:05  <benjamingoodger> good evening, gentlemen
17:18:26  <benjamingoodger> the government of the uk is chucking money at the problem now...
17:18:41  <Celestar> heh
17:18:50  <Celestar> problem? what problem?
17:19:19  <benjamingoodger> the recession
17:19:35  <benjamingoodger> we're to spend twenty billion pounds on tax cuts
17:19:38  <Celestar> (note: i was kindding)
17:19:43  <yorick> kidding*
17:19:43  <Jango> as long as they build nice shiny new transport stuff, i don't mind :)
17:19:44  <Celestar> kidding*
17:19:49  <benjamingoodger> ha!
17:19:52  <benjamingoodger> not bloody likely
17:19:59  <Celestar> Jango: YEY! Heathrow's 3rd runway \o/
17:20:03  <Jango> w00t
17:20:03  <benjamingoodger> we haven't had any new trains since 2004
17:20:06  <Celestar> Ultraspeed 500
17:20:08  <Jango> and stansted's number 2
17:20:14  <Jango> and crossrail
17:20:19  <Jango> ownage
17:20:26  <Jango> bring on the recession :/
17:20:29  <Celestar> runways are dirty cheap
17:20:50  <Jango> except when the UK builds, then it's a couple of bn each
17:21:01  <Celestar> buying up the houses on which to build it, that's expensive
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17:30:28  <Celestar> stupid FAA
17:30:33  <Celestar> "WIE UNTIL UFN"
17:30:37  <Celestar> why two untils?
17:32:00  <Rubidium> maybe UNTIL has some meaning too
17:32:48  <Celestar> it's usually <FROM> UNTIL <TILL>
17:33:33  <Rubidium> probably because they didn't like FUN as abbreviation
17:33:38  <Celestar> like 14 NOV 08:00 2008 UNTIL 31 JAN 16:00 2009
17:33:44  <Celestar> FUN?
17:33:51  <Rubidium> FUrther Notice
17:34:43  <Celestar> :P
17:34:47  <Rubidium> *or* UFN means Ultimate Fight Night
17:34:53  <Celestar> haha
17:37:00  <benjamingoodger> understimulated fortuituously naturists
17:39:33  <benjamingoodger> underhandedly flippant newsreel
17:44:39  <Prof_Frink> Unidentified Flying Noodles.
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18:20:04  <George_>  DaleStan: Unfortunately I could find only 0.9.10 r1854e and it has the same error
18:20:29  <George_> Is there a newer version of grfcodec
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18:20:37  <Wolf01> hello
18:21:08  <Wolf01> "<grmpff> Roads and stations in TTD (OTTD, TTDPatch, ...) are already built diagonally" LOL
18:21:18  <Ammler> George_: I have r2055
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18:21:41  <George_> where did you download it?
18:21:49  <Ammler> svn
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18:22:07  <George_> could you post a link?
18:23:20  <yorick> Wolf01: that's quite true
18:23:22  <Sacro> Wolf01: they are
18:23:34  <Wolf01> they are aligned to grid
18:23:43  <yorick> yes, grid has diagonal lines
18:23:50  <Wolf01> the grid is visually diagonal
18:23:54  <Ammler> George_: are you able to compile self?
18:24:06  <George_> Ammler: No
18:24:06  <yorick> Wolf01: yes, so the stations are visually diagonal
18:24:16  <yorick> and they are codewise
18:24:26  <Ammler> George_: and your OS is win?
18:24:36  <Wolf01> and with diagonal, people always mean diagonal to grid, not diagonal to see
18:24:37  <George_> Yes, win xp sp2
18:24:59  <yorick> Wolf01: nope?
18:25:16  <yorick> the stupid people do
18:25:31  <Wolf01> thank you
18:25:32  <Wolf01> :)
18:26:48  <yorick> np
18:27:58  <Belugas> yorick starts to learn about stupid people :D
18:28:01  * Belugas dances of joy!
18:29:23  <Ammler> George_: sorry then, I have no dev environment on windows....
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18:29:49  <George_> Belugas, may be you can help?
18:30:16  <yorick> what's the problem?
18:30:37  <yorick> oh
18:30:37  <George_> To compile GRFCodec for win 32
18:30:44  <yorick> no, I can't compile grfcodec
18:31:15  <George_> I need r2055 and have only r1854
18:31:16  <Ammler> yorick: just run "make grfcodec" ;-)
18:31:30  <Ammler> George_: I am not sure, your problem is solved with it.
18:31:50  <George_> Well, I'll at least try
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18:33:04  <planetmaker> Ammler: you normally need boost. Or to edit one file and add #def NO_BOOST (or something like that)
18:33:17  <yorick> and you need perl
18:33:24  <Ammler> oh, you should use boost
18:33:39  <Ammler> it is needed for escape sequences
18:33:43  <planetmaker> he... I'm too stupid to install it properly.
18:34:00  <Belugas> i'll try George_
18:34:17  <planetmaker> nasty boost has no proper MacOS installer.
18:34:20  <Ammler> and nfo coding without escape is quite hard.
18:34:42  <planetmaker> k, so I can basically trash my binary before I even tried it :P
18:35:05  <Ammler> no
18:35:12  <Ammler> you can code without :P
18:35:17  <planetmaker> :P
18:35:22  <Ammler> it is just not that easy ;-)
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18:53:32  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14618 /trunk/src/ (52 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: when the chosen language isn't supported by the current font, try to find a font that does and use that instead. Thanks to glx/michi_cc for the Windows implementation.
18:54:08  <Belugas> George_, i fail.  Something about a bad directory or else.  A bit in a hurry, so no time to dig in the problem
18:54:09  <Belugas> sorry
18:54:28  <glx> Belugas: yes cygwin is required even for MSVC
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18:55:39  <Belugas> c:\cygwin\bin\make -f NOREV=0
18:55:42  <Belugas> yup
18:55:47  <Belugas> just found out ...
18:56:21  <Belugas> that is a bit... strange.  Sure there must be a good reason but it's not somehting i'm inclined to here now ;)
18:56:37  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: translators * r14619 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:56:37  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-11-24 18:56:10
18:56:37  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed by Hadez (1)
18:56:37  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 fixed by habell (1)
18:56:37  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: latvian - 19 fixed, 1 changed by v3rb0 (20)
18:56:38  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: persian - 22 fixed by ali sattari (22)
18:56:38  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: piglatin - 21 fixed by adammw (21)
19:00:07  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14620 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r14618): missing lines broke compilation on windows
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19:28:31  <planetmaker> hm... in current trunk I now get a linking error... (r14620):
19:28:42  <Rubidium> we know...
19:28:48  <planetmaker>  /usr/bin/ld: Undefined symbols:
19:28:49  <planetmaker> SetFallbackFont(FreeTypeSettings*, char const*, int)
19:28:50  <Rubidium> why doesn't OSX use fontconfig?
19:28:51  <planetmaker> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:28:52  <planetmaker> make[1]: *** [openttd] Error 1
19:28:54  <planetmaker> oh, ok
19:28:57  <planetmaker> obviously my system not
19:29:13  <planetmaker> I don't know why though...
19:29:21  <planetmaker> where do I have to look to figure out?
19:29:22  <Rubidium> ah well... then someone has to code SetFallbackFont for OSX ;)
19:29:27  <Rubidium> fontcache.cpp
19:29:35  <Rubidium> but it's trivial to solve the link error
19:29:55  <planetmaker> hm, how?
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19:31:13  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14621 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r14618): link error when you aren't compiling for Windows or you don't have fontconfig.
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19:31:31  <planetmaker> :) I guess... I pull again.
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20:04:37  <Chrill> Sacro?
20:05:00  *** grumbel [] has joined #openttd
20:05:16  <Sacro> Chrill: ?
20:05:39  <Wolf01> Sacro? No, Sacred 2 time :O
20:05:47  <Chrill> can you restart brianetta's?
20:06:02  <Sacro> Chrill: car?
20:06:09  <Chrill> servar
20:07:50  <benjamingoodger> not enough time
20:07:56  <benjamingoodger> to finish last word in
20:08:10  <benjamingoodger> must type as
20:08:13  <benjamingoodger> separate message
20:08:39  <Chrill> totally
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20:10:50  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14622 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r14618): win9x compilation
20:11:40  <Sacro> Chrill: hmm, i could...
20:12:39  <Chrill> you should
20:12:43  <Chrill> it's in 2054 or somesuch
20:12:55  <Chrill> december 2052*
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20:27:09  <Swallow> Is there a limit on the number of items in a dropdown list?
20:28:25  <Swallow> Apart from practical limits, of course.
20:29:04  <petern> no
20:29:09  <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be, but it has been lifted, afaik
20:29:33  <Swallow> k, thanks
20:29:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen drop down lists with 31 entries
20:30:44  * Rubidium has seen them with 39
20:31:03  <Eddi|zuHause> but at that point, you should really consider if you shouldn't use a different format of representation
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20:31:31  <Rubidium> what's a better representation for the list of languages?
20:31:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't say there is one ;)
20:32:05  <Eddi|zuHause> just that you should consider the possibility
20:32:32  <Eddi|zuHause> but, you could group them after regions, for example, and have submenus
20:32:33  <glx> at least language are sorted by name now :)
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20:35:09  <Eddi|zuHause> or for example don't use a dropdown box, but open a new window which has a scroll bar
20:35:18  <Eddi|zuHause> like the newgrf selection stuff
20:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause> the brain has difficulties with parsing lists that have more than 7 entries
20:52:06  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14623 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Codechange: a sprinkle of coding style.
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20:58:52  <planetmaker> [21:35]	<Eddi|zuHause>	like the newgrf selection stuff <-- for creating games I always use a version patched with the new newgrf gui window
20:59:00  <planetmaker> :)
20:59:21  <Ammler> !s/new/better/
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21:01:41  <fjb> Hello
21:01:44  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
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21:01:58  <benjamingoodger> hello fjb! would you like a sugar-free worthers original?
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21:02:21  <fjb> Sugar free?
21:02:31  <benjamingoodger> yeah. from spain
21:02:43  <benjamingoodger> nothing from spain has sugar in it, for some reason. maybe they're all diabetic
21:02:59  <fjb> Hm, sugar replacements are even worse.
21:03:59  <Belugas> Hey!, Sugar? Where is my replacement??
21:04:34  * benjamingoodger chucks one at belugas
21:05:05  <Belugas> gimme brown suger, shelter
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21:05:28  <benjamingoodger> and it's landed in.... seattle! damn
21:05:37  <benjamingoodger> better luck next time
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21:07:01  <Eddi|zuHause> seattle is quite a distance from quebec ;)
21:07:20  <Swallow> What is the devs' opinion on the close airport patch?
21:07:27  <benjamingoodger> ah, your whois said vancouver
21:07:49  <Eddi|zuHause> that's where the IRC server is
21:08:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it's pretty random which one you connect to
21:08:03  <benjamingoodger> ah
21:08:09  <benjamingoodger> very well..
21:08:14  * benjamingoodger tries again
21:08:17  <Eddi|zuHause> for example yours is in Darmstadt, Germany
21:08:43  <benjamingoodger> hm. at least his got the right country
21:08:49  <benjamingoodger> though mine was geographically closer.
21:09:34  <Eddi|zuHause> well, geographics has not much to do with it, it's more the internet-proximity that decides your server
21:09:37  <Belugas> what the HELL am i doing in Hongouver ???
21:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause> well, could be worse...
21:10:00  <benjamingoodger> yes, yes, I know
21:10:04  <Eddi|zuHause> you could be in Hannover :p
21:10:10  <benjamingoodger> you could be in london
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21:10:13  <Belugas> yeah.. i could in in NorthPole :S
21:10:26  <Eddi|zuHause> they at least have decent snow there :p
21:10:38  <benjamingoodger> *grumbles about lack of snow*
21:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause> we have plenty snow here
21:10:55  * Belugas rejoyces at the lack of snow!!
21:11:12  <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: fedex me some, will you?
21:11:28  <benjamingoodger> I have seen no snow since 2005-11-25
21:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause> NO i can't spare any!
21:11:49  <benjamingoodger> selfish
21:11:52  <Eddi|zuHause> ALL MINE!
21:11:58  <benjamingoodger> ;_;
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21:13:18  <benjamingoodger> I was nearly going on a trip to montreal in may
21:14:02  <Eddi|zuHause> bah... why is my presentation not finishing itself?
21:14:26  <benjamingoodger> it's punishing you for not sharing your snow
21:14:49  <Eddi|zuHause>
21:15:13  <benjamingoodger> heheheheh
21:15:37  <Belugas> FOUND IT!!!
21:15:39  <Belugas> youhou!!!
21:15:51  <Belugas> Rolling Stones - Heaven
21:15:56  <Belugas> yeah...
21:15:59  <benjamingoodger> you retrieved the werther's?
21:16:14  <benjamingoodger> that person clearly hates michael fox quite a lot. I wonder who he is
21:19:08  <frosch123> pfff, michael fox - can't you just say marty mcfly ?
21:19:19  <Eddi|zuHause> <- that one is cool ;)
21:19:36  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: can't you make that connection by yourself?
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21:19:56  <benjamingoodger> never heard of him either
21:20:19  * Belugas plugs his guitar jack oin his nose, according to Eddi|zuHause's suggestion
21:20:25  <Belugas> DOES NOT WORK!!
21:21:26  <benjamingoodger> that's brilliant
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21:26:17  <Eddi|zuHause> benjamingoodger: but please tell me you've heard of Michael J. Fox before
21:26:47  <benjamingoodger> nyope
21:27:31  <Eddi|zuHause> infidel!
21:27:34  <glx> impossible
21:29:21  <benjamingoodger> ...noe
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21:30:19  <Eddi|zuHause> <- go memorize this
21:31:25  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: <- far more useful
21:31:49  <benjamingoodger> oh, those atrocious films
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21:32:55  <frosch123> benjamingoodger: i can understand that you do not know michael j fox, but when you start to tell you don't know marty mcfly, you will become quite lonely
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21:33:24  <benjamingoodger> well, I only saw the last twenty minutes of one of those films, I don't know which it was
21:33:30  <benjamingoodger> and I didn't care for it
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21:51:16  <Belugas> "What a drag It is getting Old"
21:51:48  <Sacro> Belugas: might want to look at that shift key
21:52:08  <benjamingoodger> possibly he is trying to signify the start of lines in a poem
21:52:32  <benjamingoodger> and failing to realise/ that forward-slashes are used/ for this
21:54:18  * benjamingoodger wonders why it is so quiet tonight
21:54:26  <benjamingoodger> last night it was a whirlwind of activity
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22:02:19  <Belugas> wHY iS thaT, SACRO?
22:03:37  <Wolf01> 'night
22:03:42  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:05:00  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe "What", "It" and "Old" are names?
22:05:28  <benjamingoodger> not bloody likely
22:06:11  <benjamingoodger> english explicitly bans capitalisation of pronouns, correlatives and adjectives except in title-case
22:06:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the only other option is that he is trying german, but fails horribly ;)
22:07:40  *** grumbel [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
22:12:27  <Belugas> it was to put some accent on some words... of course of course
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22:17:07  <benjamingoodger> 0.0
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22:42:18  <Jango> hmm
22:42:21  <Jango> [daniel@neptune 52af4cv2.default]$ df -h
22:42:21  <Jango> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
22:42:21  <Jango> /dev/sda3              19G   18G     0 100% /
22:42:32  <Jango> that'll be why firefox stopped working..
22:43:11  <benjamingoodger> indeed.
22:43:32  <Progman> I know that very well, for that reason I bought a 500gb external hard drive ;)
22:43:39  <fjb> 18G home?
22:43:51  <benjamingoodger> 18G root!
22:44:07  <petern> my root is 10GB
22:44:14  <petern> which is a bit excessive
22:44:17  <benjamingoodger> mine's 6.5G
22:44:23  <Jango> yeah, i don't generally store much data on this pc full stop
22:44:29  <benjamingoodger> but let's not get into a smallest-root competition
22:44:44  <Eddi|zuHause> how cann you fill a 18GB root?
22:44:48  <petern> yeah, small roots only lead to problems...
22:44:51  <Progman> a full hard drive is not as funny as a full memory usage ;)
22:44:57  <petern> Eddi|zuHause, by having /var and /home in there...
22:45:03  <Prof_Frink> petern: Yeah, the tree falls over
22:45:04  <Jango> Eddi|zuHause, i think it's the package manager's cache
22:45:17  <Jango> i just saved 3.3 by deleting the cache
22:45:27  <petern> apt-get clean :D
22:45:36  <Eddi|zuHause> my 13GB root still has plenty of space...
22:45:39  <Jango> yeah, i keep meaning to put ubuntu on here
22:45:41  <Belugas> c:\format
22:45:43  <Jango> running arch asap
22:45:51  <Jango> s/asap/atm
22:46:02  <fjb> Filesystem                    1K-blocks     Used   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
22:46:03  <Jango> sorry, missing .
22:46:04  <fjb> /dev/ufs/SP2004Cs2root           198126    97308   84968    53%    /
22:46:06  <Eddi|zuHause> my 380GB+420GB+910GB home does not, however :p
22:46:22  <Jango> Eddi|zuHause, ;)
22:46:34  <petern> hmm, my 428GB /home has 10GB use
22:46:34  <Jango> i won't ask what you fill it with
22:46:35  <petern> +d
22:47:02  <petern> most of that is steam stuff, heh
22:47:15  <Eddi|zuHause> go to kaffeine, click on record, don't have enough spare time to cut the commercials....
22:47:59  <Jango> steam - is that for anything other than counterstrike?
22:48:07  <Jango> i'm a bit out of touch
22:48:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, audiosurf :p
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22:50:12  <benjamingoodger> half-life 2 episode two!
22:50:15  <benjamingoodger> portle!
22:50:32  <Jango> the only game i play now is openttd
22:50:47  <Jango> no time or inclination for anything else
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23:03:42  <SpComb> Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
23:03:44  <SpComb> mini_fo:/jffs             1.2M      1.2M         0 100% /
23:04:02  <benjamingoodger> :)
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23:04:24  <benjamingoodger> you're like a guy who doesn't own a television
23:04:35  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:05:05  * SpComb doesn't, in fact, own a television
23:05:15  <benjamingoodger> see! see!
23:05:41  <benjamingoodger> whenever televisions are mentioned, we get a horde of people saying they don't own them
23:05:44  <SpComb> (although according to the Finnish television license ministry, I'm supposed to pay the television license anyways because I have a PC hooked up to a network where it's possible to view IPTV)
23:06:06  <Rubidium> sounds familiar
23:06:16  <benjamingoodger> sounds fair, the British television licensing corporation does that too
23:06:44  <Eddi|zuHause> does not sound fair, but they passed a law like that in germany, too
23:06:48  <benjamingoodger> (the non-television-owning people invariably then continue with a complaint about the tv licensing agency)
23:07:06  <SmatZ> they wanted to have a law like that here, but isn't here yet :)
23:07:12  <Rubidium> television is utter shit anyways
23:07:22  <SmatZ> hehe
23:07:22  <Eddi|zuHause> "Neuartiges RundfunkgerÀt" they call it
23:07:32  <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: you are meant to pay the TV license if you own something that can be used to watch BBC copyrighted content... therefore, internet-connected computers are included
23:07:42  *** [alt]buster [] has joined #openttd
23:07:49  <benjamingoodger> it's entirely fair, to the extent that charging people who own a television is fair
23:08:05  <Eddi|zuHause> although, it costs only as much as a radio license, not a TV license (unless you also own a TV, or a TV card for the computer)
23:08:23  <SpComb> but the fact remains that I don't watch IPTV, so I don't want to pay to 120€ or whatever it was a year for the privilege of choosing not to watch TV
23:08:44  <SmatZ> why isn't is paid from taxes, this is just another annyoning fee (little, but annyoning)
23:08:49  <SmatZ> *it
23:08:57  <benjamingoodger> because not everyone owns a television
23:09:18  <SmatZ> there are people who don't pay taxes, too... like homelesses
23:09:22  <Eddi|zuHause> if it were payed from taxes, the government might take (more) influence on the content
23:09:25  <SpComb> they have this advertising campaign for it here in Finland, it's even possible to buy a TV license as a gift card...
23:09:37  <benjamingoodger> spcomb would complain, loudly and continually, about being taxed to pay for other people's television
23:09:41  <SmatZ> soon you will be able to watch TV at phone
23:09:42  *** bleepy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:09:58  <SmatZ> SpComb has PC
23:10:08  <Eddi|zuHause> radio costs 5,52€ per month and TV(+radio+...) costs 17,03€ in germany
23:10:18  <SpComb> 215€/yr
23:10:20  <Eddi|zuHause> at least according to this GEZ letter on my table
23:10:39  <benjamingoodger> hmm
23:10:47  <benjamingoodger> colour tv license is only £60 per year in UK
23:10:54  <SpComb> benjamingoodger: I barely pay 215€/yr in taxes
23:10:57  <benjamingoodger> b&w tv license is £30
23:11:00  <Eddi|zuHause> but you don't have to pay if you live in your parent's home and earn less than 280€ per month
23:11:16  <SmatZ> benjamingoodger: do you pay for each TV?
23:11:22  <Eddi|zuHause> benjamingoodger: they actually make a difference for that?!?
23:11:22  <benjamingoodger> no, per household
23:11:28  <benjamingoodger> yes, they do
23:11:33  <SmatZ> then it is cheap
23:11:39  <benjamingoodger> there is also a discount if you are blind or deaf :P
23:11:46  <SmatZ> haha
23:12:24  <benjamingoodger> SpComb: presumably you plan to pay some at some point in the future?
23:12:31  <SpComb> heh, 50% off for blind/deaf? :P
23:12:57  <Rubidium> deaf need to pay more
23:13:01  <Rubidium> for the subtitling
23:13:04  <SmatZ> :-P
23:13:06  <SpComb> benjamingoodger: presumeably
23:13:35  <benjamingoodger> is that a "yes", or are you trying to correct my spelling?
23:13:42  <SpComb> yes
23:13:49  <SpComb> why do governments even tax TV licenses separately?
23:13:49  <benjamingoodger> which?
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23:13:57  <SpComb> confused yet?
23:14:01  <benjamingoodger> yes
23:14:02  <benjamingoodger> I am
23:14:34  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: again, because it is not a tax
23:14:38  <Eddi|zuHause> it is a fee
23:14:41  <SpComb> fee for what?
23:14:49  <benjamingoodger> fee for watching the tv
23:14:54  <SpComb> but I don't watch TV
23:14:58  <SpComb> so why should I have to pay it?
23:14:59  <Rubidium> SpComb: do you also have to pay a fee for "copyright owners" when you buy an empty CD, empty DVD, etc?
23:15:00  <Eddi|zuHause> for public TV without (much) governmental influence
23:15:03  <SpComb> no, it's just defined in a silly way :(
23:15:05  <benjamingoodger> no, but you have equipment to do so
23:15:17  <benjamingoodger> you cannot be trusted to have the equipment and not do it, obviously
23:16:28  <Rubidium> and do you have to pay a dog tax when you doorbell sounds like a dog?
23:16:38  <SmatZ> hehe
23:16:56  <benjamingoodger> we don't have dog taxes here
23:17:41  <SpComb> the "have the equipment to do so" thing is kind of meaningless when you have equipment that wasn't made for watching TV, but is capable of doing so because your ISP configured some routers on their side of the network
23:17:48  <Eddi|zuHause> dog taxes are communal taxes, each village may have its own dog taxes
23:18:41  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: then talk to the ISP to not allow IPTV for your connection
23:18:52  <benjamingoodger> ...which is laughable
23:19:00  <SpComb> indeed, there was some discussion about making it opt-in
23:19:07  <benjamingoodger> because you will still be able to view youtube recordings of the content
23:19:29  <Rubidium> oh... not to forget the copier tax: if you have the means to copy a piece of paper (as company) you have to pay an annual fee (to compensate copyright owners) regardless on the amount you copy or whether you actually copy copyrighted materials
23:19:38  <SpComb> well, if the government wants some way to define the criteria for having to pay the license in the law, then it's not entirely ridiculous for the ISP to provide a way to make a solid choice yourself
23:19:57  <benjamingoodger> ah, copier taxes... those aren't good
23:19:58  <SmatZ> Rubidium: that's silly... we only have to pay for printers, inks and paper :-P
23:20:11  <SpComb> although I'm not quite sure how the ISP would implement it... filtering multicast traffic on the switch ports, or some kind of IGMP source-IP monitoring
23:20:14  <Eddi|zuHause> cd burners have a similar fee
23:20:18  <benjamingoodger> laser toner is already more expensive than cocaine
23:20:28  <SmatZ> haha
23:21:04  *** rortom [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
23:21:18  <Rubidium> that does in effect make copying any content fairly legal; you're paying the copyright owners anyways
23:21:33  *** silent [~pwr@] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
23:21:35  <benjamingoodger> you'd think so, wouldn't you
23:22:48  <benjamingoodger> I look forward to the day when record labels are relegated to the status of litigation trolls
23:22:52  * Rubidium still needs to find a use for the CD/DVD player/burner in his laptop
23:23:03  <SpComb> CD-burner tax
23:23:27  <benjamingoodger> and someone in the EU notices, and issues a directive about it, and we all rejoice, bathing in sunshine and rainbows
23:23:49  *** nekx [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:24:04  <SpComb> rainbow tax
23:24:25  <benjamingoodger> kvietigxu, vi...
23:24:43  <Rubidium> after having the laptop for 4.5 years as main (only) workstation I've yet to use the darn cdrom thing
23:24:56  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> that does in effect make copying any content fairly legal; you're paying the copyright owners anyways <- but they closed that loophole, the copyright now says that this is only legal when the source of the material was legal as well
23:25:56  <SpComb> the media tax is indeed a pretty ridiculous concept
23:25:58  <Rubidium> well... the source is legal per definition
23:26:47  <benjamingoodger> hmm
23:27:01  <benjamingoodger> perhaps I will strike germany from my list of emigration destinations after all
23:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. they noticed that flaw after they passed the law, now they are trying to change it again
23:27:11  <benjamingoodger> seems a little copyrighted for me
23:27:35  <Eddi|zuHause> germany has one of the most strict copyrights in the world
23:28:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but it does have advantages, like music companies cannot simply strip the musicians of their copyright, like they do in the USA
23:29:21  <benjamingoodger> well, yes
23:29:33  <benjamingoodger> I didn't have the US on the list to begin with :P
23:29:51  <benjamingoodger> it's a criminal offense, however, to distribute copyrighted works without permission in the UK
23:30:21  <benjamingoodger> not sure how that compares with germany
23:30:27  <Eddi|zuHause> germany has very clear exceptions for copyright
23:30:31  <benjamingoodger> I think I'll go, sort of north of germany
23:30:49  *** mikl [] has joined #openttd
23:30:52  <Eddi|zuHause> like you are allowed to make copies for personal use, and distribute them to family and close friends
23:31:08  <benjamingoodger> that's more permissive than the UK, then
23:31:30  <Eddi|zuHause> which is what the cd burner fee (and similar) are supposed to balance
23:31:41  <benjamingoodger> giving my mother a copy of a language-learning program could send me to jail
23:31:44  <benjamingoodger> hm
23:32:16  <Eddi|zuHause> no, programs are different, this exception is only for audio and video content
23:33:17  <benjamingoodger> ah
23:33:23  <benjamingoodger> a language learning CD, then
23:34:10  <Eddi|zuHause> <- if you want to know more about german copyright law
23:35:10  <Rubidium> oh.. legal German... not something I fancy reading
23:35:22  <Eddi|zuHause> starting with §44a are the exceptions
23:35:50  <benjamingoodger> bitte schön
23:36:12  <benjamingoodger> but, eh, I'd rather stab myself slowly to death with a blunt pencil
23:36:42  <benjamingoodger> hmm
23:36:55  <benjamingoodger> norway, sweden, finland remain on the list
23:37:01  <benjamingoodger> arguments against finland?
23:37:11  <benjamingoodger> besides it being very cold and rather close to russia?
23:37:30  <Eddi|zuHause> they charge you for IPTV even if you don't want it :p
23:37:53  <Rubidium> interesting... according to google it's a 42 minute walk for me to Germany
23:38:01  <Rubidium> why does that number pop up everywhere?
23:38:13  <Chrill> benjamingoodger, Finland is Finland.. now, what list does it remain on?
23:38:27  <Chrill> Rubidium, you're the meaning of lige
23:38:30  <Chrill> life, even
23:39:35  <benjamingoodger> my list of places to emigrate to, from the United Kingdom
23:40:29  <benjamingoodger> must be rich, at least partly english-speaking, a bit socialist, and with lots of civil liberties
23:43:49  <benjamingoodger> asia, eastern europe, africa, the US, south america are therefore not on the list... and I don't care to learn japanese. not sure about canada or australia... scandinavia has appeal
23:44:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd try singapore, australia or new zealand ;)
23:46:08  *** huset [] has joined #openttd
23:46:09  <huset> o/
23:46:12  *** huset is now known as appe
23:46:17  <benjamingoodger> just 'cause you want me out of europe :P
23:46:22  <appe> i was wondering, can i add newgrf patches while playing?
23:46:34  <appe> or will that fuck things up
23:46:36  <benjamingoodger> yes
23:46:44  <benjamingoodger> it may well fuck things up, however
23:46:46  <appe> oh
23:46:51  <appe> i just want faster trains :<
23:46:55  <benjamingoodger> :P
23:46:55  <benjamingoodger> I don't know about australia... seems rather american
23:46:57  <appe> dono if it exists, actually.
23:47:05  <Eddi|zuHause> vietnam is beautiful, i have heard. and they use latin alphabet, so it's not impossible to learn their language ;)
23:47:09  *** rubyruy [] has joined #openttd
23:47:22  <benjamingoodger> yes
23:47:27  <appe> vietnamese is rather easy compared with the rest of the asian languages
23:47:36  <benjamingoodger> somewhat pacific, liable to be covered in water periodically
23:47:42  <appe> :>
23:48:18  <appe> although
23:48:21  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you might as well stay in your rainy, dirty, snowless UK then :p
23:48:29  <appe> "fuck things up", with the map or the game?
23:48:45  <benjamingoodger> possibly the map
23:49:01  <benjamingoodger> if it doesn't crash the game, it's probably OK
23:49:10  <benjamingoodger> I don't want to stay in my rainy dirty snowless UK
23:49:18  <benjamingoodger> I quite like the idea of sweden
23:49:25  <Eddi|zuHause> appe: it's probably a bad idea to switch train grfs if you already have existing trains
23:49:35  <benjamingoodger> was just wondering if its neighbours were better in any way
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23:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause> sweden spies on every internet traffic that crosses its borders :p
23:50:30  <appe> Eddi|zuHause: ok
23:50:33  <appe> :o
23:50:35  <appe> <-
23:50:47  *** DASPRiD is now known as DASPRiD|off
23:51:07  <benjamingoodger> this is true
23:51:18  <benjamingoodger> so, arguments for norway?
23:52:43  <Prof_Frink> Forget norway.
23:53:18  <benjamingoodger> why?
23:53:30  * Sacro knows why
23:53:47  <benjamingoodger> why, sacro?
23:54:00  <Eddi|zuHause> what is a norway?
23:54:11  <Sacro>
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23:54:44  <benjamingoodger> aha!
23:54:46  <benjamingoodger> yes
23:54:57  <benjamingoodger> come to kenya, we've got lions!!
23:54:58  <appe> Eddi|zuHause: a norway is a long piece of asfalt, charged with a high electrical current, sent into several donkey arses for reaction
23:55:09  <benjamingoodger> that was made by a Brit, you know :P
23:55:10  <appe> Eddi|zuHause: the experiment is mostly used in northern part of europe.
23:55:14  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Thank you.
23:55:18  *** Brianetta [] has quit []
23:55:24  <Prof_Frink> benjamingoodger: A yorksherman.
23:55:38  <benjamingoodger> possibly
23:55:44  <Eddi|zuHause> appe: ah, right, i forot. :p
23:56:06  <Sacro> forot?
23:56:19  <appe> a 'forot' is a carot, shaped like the #openttd main irc operator's sack of testicles
23:56:27  <benjamingoodger> good god!
23:56:33  <benjamingoodger> appe's been replaced by a wanker!
23:56:33  <Sacro> who is the "main op"?
23:56:37  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:56:37  <appe> most comonly used in soup and northern parts of europe.
23:56:52  <appe> Sacro: the main irc operator is the leader of kenya
23:57:05  * appe would work superbly as the encyclopedia of worlds
23:58:52  <Prof_Frink> benjamingoodger: about 3/4 down, "Jonti Picking, creator of the Weebl and Bob cartoon series"
23:59:20  <benjamingoodger>
23:59:21  <benjamingoodger> brilliant I say!
23:59:21  <benjamingoodger> ah, lovely

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