Log for #openttd on 10th February 2009:
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00:01:39  <dihedral> [00:52]  * Sacro sits alone in his basket <-- good dog
00:01:53  * Sacro hisses
00:04:31  <dihedral> now now!!!
00:04:43  <dihedral> or you wont get a goody
00:06:43  <Perfk> hmm. I downloaded the GRF's.. do I have to add them all in the NewGRF settings? (there are many :P)
00:06:51  <Sacro> me grrrmbls and curls up
00:07:30  <Ammler> Perfk: no, they will be loaded automatically
00:07:40  <Perfk> Thank good :) hehe
00:07:47  <Ammler> (if you have the correct versions)
00:08:22  <Perfk> the correct version.. is that the nightly build? or the one I got from's frontpage ?
00:08:35  <Perfk> 0.6.3
00:08:49  <Ammler> depense on the server
00:09:13  <Ammler> if the dot on the right side is red, you have the wrong version.
00:09:48  <Ammler> you see the needed version on the details (right of the list)
00:10:41  <Perfk> can't I just download the newest version and it will work on all servers? :P would be nice
00:11:44  <Perfk> Just looked in the servers list.. very few that I can't get into. so looks like iam good for now :)
00:11:47  <Ammler> indeed, but mostly no
00:11:48  <Perfk> Thanks for the help guys
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00:13:02  <Ammler> you should be able to join around 50% of the servers with most players with the current stable
00:14:18  <Ammler> nightly server has mostly their own homepage/IRC channel with support to join.
00:24:41  <Sacro> lol hi
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00:32:25  <dihedral> hello Sacro
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00:45:30  <energetic> every new question about 064/070 delays it with one day...
00:46:25  <dihedral> energetic, how good you dont know what it's 'soposed' to be release, nor have any influence on that
00:46:33  <dihedral> so you have like no way of telling anyway!
00:50:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r15437 /trunk/src/unmovable_cmd.cpp:
00:50:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Do not run a code section when you already know it is useless
00:50:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Do not rely on a decision based on something that has already been evaluated
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01:07:14  <NukeBuster> Rubidium?
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01:20:40  <Rubidium> night NukeBuster
01:23:12  <NukeBuster> still here?
01:23:17  <dihedral> hehe
01:23:20  <dihedral> night Rubidium
01:23:28  <dihedral> NukeBuster, ;-)
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01:34:39  <Rubidium> NukeBuster: if you would've asked what you wanted to ask I could've answered it, but these pseudo-questions are quite pointless. Anyhow, the answer on your previous question (once I've pressed <enter>) is: not anymore.
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02:48:02  <Scuanor> hello everybody :o)
02:49:06  <Scuanor> im getting a linkerror with ms vc++ when trying to compile to debugversion fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol @FT_Done_Face@4"
02:49:11  <Scuanor> can someone help me with that?
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02:52:38  <Aali> Scuanor: did you get the openttd_useful package?
02:53:15  <Scuanor> Aali: yes. v2.10
02:54:57  <Aali> that's a freetype symbol, are you positively sure that its linking to the right library?
02:56:43  <Scuanor> no, not anymore. im checking it, i may have copied the useful things to a wrong place °scratches head°
03:01:09  <Scuanor> checked. they were in the right place, the right versions and i set the right pathvariable for them.
03:01:48  <Scuanor> i know :o) that doesnt asnwer your question. i try to find that out now.
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03:04:48  <Scuanor> hm, how do i find out, if they are linked rightly?
03:05:19  <Scuanor> errm ,to the right library i meant, sorry.
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03:08:38  <Scuanor> uhm... did i say something wrong?
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03:57:02  <Scuanor> hmmm
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04:01:10  <glx> Scuanor: you have a path problem, or the wrong libs
04:01:52  <Scuanor> glx: yes, i lack though the knowledge to find out, how to fix it.
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04:02:18  <glx> where did you put extract openttd_useful?
04:03:51  <Scuanor> im very sure from:
04:03:57  <Scuanor> ouch
04:03:59  <Scuanor> sorry
04:04:06  <Scuanor> that wasnt your question
04:04:33  <Scuanor> well, actually it was, just the wrong answer
04:05:43  <Scuanor> glx: i put them into a folder i made, which includes the SVN C:\!openttd063source\!MSVC8\vc and there into the correspondending lib and include folders
04:06:07  <Scuanor> ( the pathname isnt fitting, i know, as it is latest SVN, not 0.63)
04:06:54  <glx> and you set MSVC to search them there?
04:07:42  <Scuanor> glx: it is included in the options as searchpath, yes. by specific path, not environmentvariable
04:08:25  <Scuanor> like "C:\!openttd063source\!MSVC8\vc\include" for includes
04:09:01  <Scuanor> by the way, whats the name of "includes"? its not the right term, no?
04:10:50  <glx> so in include you have freetype, unicode and 5 files
04:11:24  <glx> anyway includes are correct else there is compile errors
04:11:39  <Scuanor> glx: actually also everything else. i copied over all needed libs and includes
04:11:56  <glx> did you full rebuild?
04:12:24  <Scuanor> i did a cleaned rebuild with debugmode
04:13:53  <glx> did it work before?
04:15:18  <Scuanor> the file is at C:\!openttd063source\objs\Win32\Debug\fontcache.obj. and it is a newly created one, so, it isnt really not there. yes, at some time it worked. i am not able to say though, at which point.
04:16:11  <Scuanor> i did not change though folders or pathvariables, just downloaded the SVN
04:17:12  <glx> and you get only one link error?
04:17:48  <Scuanor> glx:
04:18:12  <Scuanor> so basically yes.
04:21:55  <glx> weird
04:22:24  <glx> I have no problems with vc8 nor vc9
04:23:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15438 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r15434): MSVC performance warning
04:24:04  <Scuanor> it definetly has to do with the fontcache, yes? i read somewhere, that sometimes errors are only appearing in some place, but their origin might be elsewhere
04:24:37  <glx> freetype is used only there :)
04:24:46  <Scuanor> °snickers° thats funny, just as i am rebuilding i came about that performance warning just some secs ago
04:25:45  <glx> I think the only thing to try is to remove openttd_useful completely and reinstall it
04:26:51  <Scuanor> hm, as i merged it with all the other things, that would be complicated. wouldnt it be the same, if i just copyover it? ( which i did already today )
04:27:07  <Scuanor> or do i need to build freetype meself?
04:28:40  <Scuanor> oh, i can of course delete the whole freetype folder and paste it again
04:29:10  <SpComb> <-- I'm interested in hearing peoples' feedback on this
04:29:16  <glx> that can work too as the problem is clearly with freetype
04:29:27  <SpComb> it's starting to be kind of feature-complete now, although the logs don't actually get updated yet
04:30:01  <SpComb> but hopefully I'll be able to replace my old IRC logs soon enough
04:30:09  <glx> I was about to say that ;)
04:33:13  <Scuanor> glx: maybe... maybe i have a pathproblem with a different project that uses a different version of freetype...checking...
04:33:53  <glx> check the path order
04:35:23  <Scuanor> i just corrected it, yes. rebuilding...
04:36:25  <Scuanor> °grins° funny thing is, i basically have no clue whatsoever about programming, i just do this all to realize a tiny idea i had
04:36:47  <Scuanor> but... in the wake of getting this build and compiled, i learned already quite much
04:37:28  <Scuanor> aaand. voila! no errors. not even that stationcommandwarning Oo
04:37:37  <glx> compiling by yourself is already a good start :)
04:38:30  <Scuanor> which is weird. the first time i build today it wasnt there, the second time it was, now its gone again that warning. oh... no, still there, it just doesnt get displayed in the outputwindow
04:39:08  <glx> svn up :)
04:39:21  <glx> I fixed it
04:39:52  <Scuanor> i know :o)
04:40:13  <Scuanor> hm, now... where to put that exe? in 0.63? or last nightly?
04:40:27  <Scuanor> aka is last nightly the same as the last SVN?=
04:40:57  <glx> last nightly is older :)
04:41:49  <glx> anyway time to sleep for me
04:42:09  <Scuanor> thank you very much, glx :o))
04:42:13  <Scuanor> and a good night to you
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07:19:21  <petern> professor
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07:21:27  <petern> who's preparing for 2009/02/13 23:31:30 celebrations?
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08:07:04  <Rubidium> there's not much special about that moment here
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08:13:35  <petern> who's preparing for 2009/02/13 23:31:30 GMT celebrations?
08:13:44  <petern> :o
08:18:33  <Forked> 1234567890?
08:22:15  <dihedral> morning
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08:22:24  <Brianetta> I celebrated 12:34:56 7/8/90
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08:22:28  <Brianetta> Not much will top that
08:22:50  <Brianetta> I was in north Wales at the time, visiting my mum's parents
08:23:48  <dihedral> so basically your grandparents?
08:23:56  <Brianetta> yes; I was making it more specific
08:24:07  <Brianetta> ruling out my extremely rich grandparents
08:24:10  <dihedral> just checking :-P
08:24:44  <Brianetta> I only have one surviving grandparent now )-:
08:25:01  <Brianetta> She's extremely rich
08:26:03  <dihedral> i only ever new my grandparents from my mothers side
08:26:19  <dihedral> they live in Richmond :-P
08:26:39  <dihedral> lovely place
08:27:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know the grandparents from my father's side. they died before i was born
08:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, that is not entirely true, my grandfather died before that, my grandmother afterwards
08:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> but i was quite young back then
08:29:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i do have faint memories of a flat with an oven (no central heating)
08:38:59  <dihedral> <- oh my word!
08:39:31  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, same here - appart from the faint memories :-P
08:39:58  <dihedral> that kid from the post has like 45122 lines in his single (real) source file
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08:42:18  <el_en> i have faint memory of seeing my great-grandmother alive.
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08:56:48  <dihedral> odd - my eyes must be going bust... i dont c smallfly very #
08:57:03  * dihedral grins
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08:57:49  <Perfk> Morning all. can anyone tell me what the difference between the Nightly build, and the openTTD build?
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09:00:41  <Roest> morning
09:01:31  <dihedral> morning Roest
09:01:54  <dihedral> Perfk, may i give you a hint?
09:02:08  <dihedral> try comparing release dates of the nightly builds and the sable builds
09:02:25  <Roest> i want a hint as well
09:02:44  <dihedral> and while looking at the _nightly_ builds, contemplate why they could possibly be called _nightlies_
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09:02:59  <dihedral> Roest, it's Layer 8
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09:15:39  <smallfly> [09:53] <dihedral> odd - my eyes must be going bust... i dont c smallfly very # <-- ;-)
09:16:45  <petern> what is an "openttd build"?
09:16:56  <smallfly> what is openttd?
09:17:02  <petern> who knows
09:18:39  <Rubidium> the wiki?
09:19:06  <dihedral> petern, i believe Perfk means a stable build
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09:19:49  <petern> dihedral, never assume ;)
09:21:11  * Rubidium wonders why dihedral didn't send Perfk to the wiki as it is a frequently asked question
09:21:56  <dihedral> Rubidium, i already sent him in here, because i wanted to stop him from asking in my games channel
09:23:01  <petern> hmm, why didn't we ever release 0.6.4...
09:23:59  <Perfk> wee. iam popular :)
09:24:30  <petern> @openttd commit 14455
09:24:31  <DorpsGek> petern: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
09:24:34  <petern> :o
09:25:24  <Rubidium> petern: because nobody could be arsed to figure out what to backport, to actually backport and go through the whole release thingy?
09:26:38  <petern> hehe
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09:27:21  <dihedral> Rubidium, just release 0.6.3 as 0.6.4 and say it's a bug fix release :-D
09:27:40  <Forked> What's new:
09:27:47  <Forked> * Checking if our users actually read this list
09:27:54  <dihedral> hihi
09:27:57  <dihedral> they would :-S
09:28:01  <petern> dihedral: there is one bug fix
09:28:11  <dihedral> well, that's at least not a lie then
09:28:22  <dihedral> is the udp fix in there?
09:28:44  <dihedral> that could be backported (is fairly straight forward :-P)
09:31:40  <Rubidium> what udp fix?
09:34:05  <dihedral> the one where the game does not send client names in the udp packets anymore
09:34:12  <dihedral> packet version 5
09:34:15  <dihedral> instead of 4
09:34:49  <Rubidium> under what rock have you been living?
09:35:55  <Rubidium> or is there another issue you haven't made us aware of?
09:35:58  <planetmaker> morning
09:36:27  <petern> FS#mentioned-once-in-some-IRC-channel-when-nobody-was-around
09:37:44  <dihedral>
09:37:50  <dihedral>
09:39:52  <dihedral> wait...
09:40:13  <dihedral> has that already been released?
09:40:37  <Rubidium> depends on what already means
09:40:55  <dihedral> in any stable release
09:41:28  <Rubidium> yeah, but only since uhm... like 0.6.2
09:42:06  <Rubidium> which is basically the (only) reason why debian lenny has 0.6.2 instead of 0.6.1
09:42:43  <Rubidium> apparantly the bugfixes in 0.6.3 weren't crash fixes
09:43:15  <dihedral> lol
09:43:18  <dihedral> i am behind
09:43:20  <Rubidium> hmm... actually there are crash fixes
09:43:29  <Rubidium> in 0.6.3
09:43:33  <petern> how's our debian repo going?
09:44:00  <Rubidium> ah well... debian-release denied blathijs' request
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09:44:19  <Rubidium> petern: like mempools
09:44:31  <petern> oh
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09:44:39  <petern> do mempools still need to be rewritten?
09:45:03  <petern> they've already had been rewritten somewhat since the original...
09:47:36  <Rubidium> I don't quite remember what the issues with the original were that should get fixed by the new one and what's already fixed in the current one
09:48:03  <petern> i think the main thing wanted was sparse pools, but i don't know why anymore
09:48:12  <petern> doesn't seem necessary
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09:50:44  <petern> i think since the C++-ization it is no longer needed
09:51:28  <petern> i love bjarni's first comment... when did NPF ever use pools...
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10:10:52  <blathijs> petern: The main advantage of my rewrite was that things are explicitely freed when they are destroyed
10:11:37  <blathijs> petern: The original pools "freed" a station by settion its id to 0 (or something like that), and then allocating a station looped all stations until it found one that has id 0
10:12:17  <blathijs> petern: My rewrite used a chain of free stations so allocation was O(1) instead of O(n)
10:13:03  <blathijs> petern: It also separated the allocation of stations and the allocation of station indexes
10:13:44  <blathijs> petern: Meaning you can use a pool for other things than indexed items (like buckets in a hashmap). This was originally the motivation behind rewriting the pools, since NPF spent quite some time free'ing and malloc'ing
10:15:55  <petern> so basically an internal memory allocator
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10:29:54  <blathijs> petern: Yeah, because free and malloc need to work for any size allocation, they are not as efficient as they can be for allocating lots of (small) same sized blocks
10:30:02  <dihedral> blathijs, that sounds pretty awesome
10:30:34  <petern> hmm, well, one improvement i can think of for pools is variable size items, so...
10:31:10  <petern> the SpriteGroup pool is quite wasteful in some cases
10:32:16  <blathijs> petern: If you really need variable sized items, you should probably just use malloc and free
10:32:33  <blathijs> petern: Unless you have a few fixed sizes, then pools might still be useful (but then just a few pools)
10:32:36  <petern> these are pool items anyway
10:34:47  <petern> the smallest item is 2 bytes
10:35:44  <petern> the largest is 24 (or 32 on 64bit) bytes
10:36:55  <petern> even then malloc is also used :)
10:37:52  <petern> Rubidium: does using tinyenumt affect performance?
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10:49:33  <Rubidium> petern: I reckon it might, although technically it should be the difference between int and byte in performance
10:49:50  <Rubidium> where int is whatever the compiler thinks is the best
10:55:42  <TinoDidriksen> And where int is fastest. Using smaller types is rarely a speed gain.
10:57:48  <Rubidium> using tinyenumt whereever you used byte shouldn't be a problem, but I'm not 100% sure about that; you need to look at the assembly differences
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12:36:12  <Gekz> manhugs
12:36:16  <Gekz> for the first man to demand one
12:37:20  <petern> are yours like bearhugs?
12:37:53  <Gekz> ... sure
12:38:10  <Gekz> except instead of claws
12:38:12  <Gekz> you get all sticky
12:38:27  <dihedral> Gekz is hairy :-P
12:38:33  <dihedral> fuzz-butt
12:38:40  <Gekz> I dont have fuzzbutt anymore
12:38:43  <Gekz> I plucked them all
12:38:45  <Gekz> one by one I did
12:38:52  <Gekz> then poured gratuitous amounts of alcohol
12:38:56  <dihedral> "not by the hair on my fuzzy butt butt"
12:38:59  <Gekz> onto the affected area for maximum effect
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12:49:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15439 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2626]: call Vehicle::LeaveStation() before reversing overlength loading train (station triggers were missed, PBS reservation could cause crash)
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13:11:36  <planetmaker> he... seems there are website issues again?
13:12:04  <FauxFaux> In/deed/.
13:12:24  <PierreW> it/died/
13:12:47  <FauxFaux> In/deed/.
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13:12:54  <PierreW> oh/noes/.
13:12:59  <petern> what sort of issues?
13:13:15  <SmatZ> site is up again
13:13:17  <FauxFaux> Fixed now, was getting "connection refused" iirc.
13:13:41  <Forked> shut up
13:13:43  <Forked> :p
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13:21:26  <Zahl> can i set the delay until chat messages disappear from screen?
13:22:09  <FauxFaux> No.
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13:23:47  <Zahl> hm ok *digs into source*
13:24:04  <FauxFaux> They're displaed for 10 days.
13:24:34  <Zahl> yeah
13:24:43  <Zahl> that kinda sucks if you made days last 20 times longer :P
13:24:54  <FauxFaux> Ah. :P  I can't remember why I looked.
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13:34:01  <mauricio13> oi
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13:57:19  * dihedral estao principe sapo
13:57:22  <dihedral> :-P
13:58:08  <Sacro> english only
13:58:18  * Chrill håller med Sacro
13:58:49  <Sacro> what's with all the (incompatible encoding)
13:58:55  <Sacro> are you not using utf8?
13:59:03  * dihedral is
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14:00:46  * Chrill doesn't know
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14:02:30  <Sacro> Chrill: what irc client?
14:03:23  <Chrill> mIRC
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14:42:17  <welshdragon> Chrill:  yes, mirc supports utf8
14:44:08  <planetmaker> are there somewhat recent systems which don't support UTF8?
14:45:47  <petern> windows?
14:47:11  <Rubidium> OSX?
14:48:13  <planetmaker> Rubidium: I never had problems on any of my computers with it... at least somewhat recently. My old windows might have...
14:48:30  <planetmaker> My Mac did (and does again :) )
14:48:37  <Rubidium> then why doesn OSX need iconv when we use UTF8 internally?
14:48:42  <Belugas> sincere condoleances
14:48:47  <dihedral> Rubidium, osx supports utf8!!
14:49:40  <planetmaker> Rubidium: I don't know iconv. But my text editors, browsers, mail progs, all handle utf8 nicely there. As does OpenTTD :)
14:50:23  <planetmaker> It needs only selecting the proper one afaik...
14:50:24  <dihedral> i have never had an issue like Sacro did with errors due to missing iconv
14:50:33  <Sacro> hmm
14:50:41  * dihedral pats Sacro on the head
14:50:51  <Sacro> i have to do --with-iconv=/usr/local
14:51:36  <petern> dihedral misses the point :D
14:51:44  <petern> iconv is needed because OSX *doesn't* support UTF8...
14:52:03  <petern> it has its own special encoding for filesystem stuff.
14:52:28  <planetmaker> hm... well. iconv seems to be part of the standard installation then.
14:54:02  <dihedral> petern, iconv was mentioned, the only time i picked up on iconv in combination with openttd was when Sacro mentioned issues he was having
14:54:14  <Sacro> yup
14:54:28  <planetmaker> anycase I never worried about iconv...
14:54:40  <petern> sacro has lots of issues
14:54:48  <dihedral> well, yeah
14:54:48  <planetmaker> :D
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15:53:36  <planetmaker> <-- is not really up to date
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15:54:05  <Progman> it isn't?
15:54:32  <Roest> only misses one commit tho
15:54:33  <planetmaker> no. is more recent.
15:54:36  <planetmaker> yeah
15:55:37  <Belugas> whooaaaa....  I see my name on that page o_O
15:55:41  <Belugas> just.. why??
15:56:28  <dihedral> odd
15:56:31  <dihedral> very odd
15:56:36  <planetmaker> very much so :)
15:56:41  <dihedral> hello Belugas :-)
15:56:55  <Belugas> mister dihedral jello
15:57:02  <dihedral> :-)
15:58:05  <planetmaker> g'evening from here, too :)
15:59:58  <Belugas> mister planetmaker jello
16:00:39  <dihedral> sounds like indian support center :-P
16:00:43  <planetmaker> :)
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16:02:35  <Belugas> oui efendi, oui
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16:51:47  <Belugas> i'm pisitively and totally bored
16:51:52  <Belugas> -i+o
16:52:26  * planetmaker ponders about what would excite Belugas
16:53:09  <planetmaker> Some nice realistic-looking eye candy objects maybe? :P
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16:57:16  <Chrill> Sacro still lost key to standard server Brianetta's?
16:57:21  <Belugas> to get me out of that log-reading job i'm enroled, might be a good start
16:57:56  <Belugas> planetmaker, of course, some gfx for some upcoming feature would be good too, indeed ;)
16:58:53  <planetmaker> hehe. Someone should kick SAC to actually *do* something instead of talking about what she all wants to do
16:59:33  <Belugas> well.. up until support is provided, there is little she can really do :P
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17:01:17  <planetmaker> :P well. I thought there was the possibility at least in TTDP - but that may just be some person talking big about it ;)
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17:03:14  * dihedral can think of a person :-P
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17:05:02  <Belugas> if you think Oskar, no he did not finished the feature.  Lakie made it, I'm just not sure if it has been commited.  I'm working toward our version currently
17:05:08  <Belugas> little by little
17:05:23  <dihedral> :-)
17:05:29  <planetmaker> I did not think of Oscar at all :)
17:05:35  <dihedral> no - me neither
17:05:55  <planetmaker> rather a person more active in the forums :)
17:06:03  <dihedral> and i was rather thinking of a "person talking big about it"
17:06:15  <dihedral> :-P
17:06:18  <planetmaker> dihedral: that at the same time :)
17:08:15  <frosch123> you mean a special friend of belugas? :p
17:08:44  <planetmaker> hm... I don't know whether he's his special friend. He's a special "lover" of OTTD at least ;)
17:09:04  <frosch123> I think he is the second best friend of belugas after sirkoz
17:09:09  <planetmaker> :D
17:09:35  <planetmaker> kind of an accomplishment, eh? :)
17:10:36  <Belugas> ho... you mean the one who is oftenly referenced by two letters?  mostly used for specifying a computer essential component?
17:11:06  <planetmaker> I guess you hit dead on target :)
17:11:24  <Belugas> Sirkoz...  please...  like... "I've got no clue of what i'm talking about but I make sure that what i'm saying sounds absolutely lovely"
17:11:25  <Chrill> Sacro Brianetta
17:11:27  <Chrill> Brianetta Sacro
17:12:26  <planetmaker> hehe :)
17:12:36  <Belugas> MB cold be right about newobjects in patch's trunk, i cannot confirm nor deny. But it should have been noted on wiki's the revision of the commit, and i do not see it
17:12:43  <Belugas> MB said that where?
17:13:12  <planetmaker> hm... dunno exactly - fuzzy memory. I thought in one of SAC's threads...
17:13:24  <planetmaker> new objects and stuff
17:14:50  * planetmaker goes looking
17:15:23  <planetmaker> But I might have gotten it totally wrong. I played TTDP only ages ago in the 90s.
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17:25:52  <planetmaker> I fail to find that, Belugas...
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17:29:12  <Belugas> therefor, it might have not been said at all;
17:29:41  <planetmaker> exactly. :)
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17:30:49  <petern> people assuming again, i guess
17:32:11  <Sacro> yes Chrill ?
17:32:13  <planetmaker> yeah. Me :P
17:32:26  <Chrill> hi Sacro
17:32:35  <Chrill> server restart, is this a possibility?
17:32:38  <Chrill> it's hit 2050
17:32:39  <Sacro> errm...
17:32:51  <Sacro> I seem to be lacking in a public certificate, I think I'm locked out without it
17:33:03  <Chrill> :P
17:33:25  <Sacro> Yeah, I think I forgot to back it up
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17:39:32  <Belugas> tss tss tsst
17:39:33  <Belugas> bad boy
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17:46:25  <Sacro> Belugas: yes
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17:50:21  <Yexo> hello
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17:55:29  <petern> no u
17:56:25  <Sacro> me?
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18:14:27  <Wolf01> hello
18:14:39  <Rubidium> ehlo
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18:19:40  <SpComb> how disruptive would it be if I were to starting operating a separate 'SpBot' nickname (irssi running on a different server) for logging purposes?
18:20:14  <Prof_Frink> Would it speak?
18:20:22  <SpComb> probably not apart from !logs
18:21:22  <SpComb> it would just be an irssi running /logs and a /trigger for !logs
18:21:24  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
18:22:46  <Belugas> could you add "And remember to make a bookmark of this URL"  to the logs command?
18:22:59  <SpComb> heh
18:23:29  <SpComb> maybe stick the URL into the topic instead
18:23:37  <Sacro>
18:23:39  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Nah, that can be Dorpy's /kick reason.
18:26:25  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
18:26:54  <petern> not another irc logging system :/
18:27:04  <SpComb> a replacement for my current one
18:27:24  <SpComb> wasn't there some second one, with a URL in the ChanServ join-channel message?
18:29:23  <SpComb> <-- the current non-realtime development version
18:29:44  <el_en> SpComb: indeed, the !logs command should point to firefox and IE manuals about adding bookmarks/favorites.
18:30:36  <Sacro> what about other browsers?
18:30:41  <SpComb> that's more or less why I neglected to continue it for the past month or two
18:31:09  <Prof_Frink> Just go for the simple option. !logs points you out of the channel.
18:32:18  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a join message?
18:32:45  <el_en> nothing wrong with someone asking the url now and then, but when it's the same person every day, that's just unnecessary noise to the channel.
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18:33:11  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: No
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18:34:16  <SpComb> hmm, apparently not anymore
18:34:40  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not since we went away from freenode :p
18:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause> that was like... 2 years ago?
18:34:50  <SpComb> it used to point to thegrebs
18:35:00  <petern> the what?
18:35:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the site of mikegrb
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18:35:40  <Eddi|zuHause> (who is now supposed to appear because of random highlight :p)
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18:39:34  * mikegrb kisses everyone
18:39:54  <mikegrb>
18:39:59  <frosch123> "ugly default font":)
18:40:04  <mikegrb> it's never been on join or such
18:41:11  <SpComb> frosch123: that's what it says in the PIL docs
18:41:19  <SpComb> and it /is/ ugly
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18:41:50  <petern> ugly default font?
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18:42:04  <SpComb>
18:42:35  <petern> urgh
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18:45:57  <Roest> urgh indeed
18:46:09  <Eddi|zuHause> how does one get that?
18:46:12  <SpComb> <-- well, there are nicer fonts :)
18:46:17  <Wolf01> stupid windows update
18:46:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i have not had any problems with windows update in almost 2 years
18:47:28  <Belugas> two years already we are here...
18:47:29  <Belugas> wowo
18:47:32  <Belugas> time flies
18:47:32  <Roest> that font is hardly any better
18:48:03  * SpComb doesn't know his fonts very well
18:48:20  <Wolf01> I have problems with windows update when it wants to reset my computer
18:48:42  <Wolf01> especially when I say no and it does it when I'm dining
18:48:45  <goodger_> Wolf01: just turn off automatic updates and run it properly
18:48:54  <Wolf01> just did it
18:49:01  <goodger_> good#
18:49:13  <Eddi|zuHause> more like two and a half year
18:49:34  <Eddi|zuHause> my logs start at 12. Aug 2006
18:49:43  <Wolf01> I forgot about it because sunday I needed to restore the comp to factory
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18:50:46  * Prof_Frink installs updates whenever the the little adept notifier tells him to
18:51:09  <Eddi|zuHause> and apparently, on 23. Jun 2006 i "deinstalled" Windows ;)
18:51:17  * goodger_ installs updates with a cron job
18:51:53  <SpComb> yes | sudo apt-get break-everything
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18:52:35  <goodger_> or rather, security updates are automatically installed with a cron job; other updates are installed manually each day
18:53:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i try manual updates when i get tired of certain bugs, or when i happen to be in YaST anyway
18:54:31  <petern> hmm, ion is, apparently, not installable on ubuntu :o
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18:54:54  <SpComb> petern: I'm running ion3 on ubuntu right now
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18:55:14  <petern>   ion3: Depends: liblua5.1-0 but it is not installable
18:55:17  <goodger_> Eddi|zuHause: I didn't know anyone used suse nowadays
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18:55:37  <Roest> <-- uses suse
18:55:50  <SpComb> petern: I also have the liblua5.1-0 package installed
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18:56:18  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no specific (as in non-religious) reason to not use suse (for a generic desktop system)
18:56:28  <petern> no such package
18:56:39  <Zahl> did the color of chatlines in ottd change from white to gray recently, or am i just stupid?
18:56:48  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
18:56:54  <Roest> eddi for many people that decission is kinda a religious issue
18:57:07  <Zahl> Eddi|zuHause: the former or latter? :P
18:57:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. :p
18:57:21  <Zahl> awesome :-D
18:57:29  <Zahl> i like conversations like that
18:57:36  <planetmaker> yes?
18:58:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i do, too ;) annoys the people every single time :p
18:58:31  <Zahl> so i guess i have to download the current nightly to find out
18:59:08  <planetmaker> yes and yes it seem to have changed
18:59:23  <Roest> can you play the nightly before dawn?
18:59:29  <Zahl> hardly
18:59:54  <Zahl> hm ok cause i think you can hardly read the chat now
19:00:26  <smallfly> my friend dihedral also online?
19:01:16  <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't there a patch for altered chat display length?
19:01:46  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you get the idea that anybody is your "friend"?
19:02:07  <smallfly> was meant ironically
19:07:18  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i'm getting timeouts on the website
19:08:35  <frosch123> then enjoy the remaining time with dorpsgek
19:09:06  <Eddi|zuHause> DorpsGek has left the library.
19:09:13  <Eddi|zuHause> DorpsGek has been saved.
19:09:54  <Sacro> petern: the ion guy is a wanker
19:09:58  <Sacro> and that's being polite
19:10:06  <blathijs> hehe
19:10:23  <blathijs> Sacro: He has an interesting personality :-)
19:10:39  <Sacro> blathijs: he pissed off the ArchLinux guys
19:10:58  <Sacro> so they said they'd never have his packages in the main repos again
19:10:58  <Eddi|zuHause> what is "ion" anyway?
19:11:58  <frosch123> a particle with an electical load
19:12:17  *** DorpsGek [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause> so, like an electron?
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19:12:51  <petern> Sacro, heh
19:13:02  <Sacro> wanker...
19:13:12  <Sacro> he hates the "FLOSS herd"
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19:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause> is that like a Floss 47?
19:13:48  <frosch123> don't know, an electron might be an exception from the rule
19:14:04  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: No, more like the GNU/Hurd.
19:14:24  <Prof_Frink> frosch123: No, your rule was wrong.
19:15:27  <petern> Sacro, so are you aware of a free replacement?
19:15:33  <Sacro> petern: nope
19:15:46  <Sacro> well
19:15:47  <Sacro>
19:15:48  <Sacro> Awesome  · dwm  · echinus  · Ion  · Wmii · Ratpoison · stumpwm · xmonad · Xerox Star · Windows 1.0 · GEM (2.0 and Later)
19:16:32  <petern> hm
19:17:05  <Sacro> Windows 1.0 :D
19:17:11  <Darkvater> el_en: sir knight to you my dear peasant
19:19:18  <Sacro> so when did Darkvater last commit?
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19:22:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15440 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp api/ai_abstractlist.cpp): -Fix: Backup AIObject::GetAllowDoCommand and restore the old value so AIs can't work around it.
19:23:37  <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few posts which have "(Darkvater)" in them
19:24:11  <Darkvater> que?
19:24:24  <Eddi|zuHause> r14684 | glx | 2008-12-17 00:02:22 +0100 (Mi, 17. Dez 2008) | 1 line
19:24:26  <Eddi|zuHause> -Codechange: use SubWCRev object to get version info instead SubWCRev.exe for tortoiseSVN (Darkvater)
19:24:37  <Darkvater> the last "commit" I had my  hand in was fixing freetype AA in the nightlies
19:25:05  <Eddi|zuHause> r14397 | rubidium | 2008-09-25 01:25:24 +0200 (Do, 25. Sep 2008) | 2 lines
19:25:06  <Eddi|zuHause> -Fix: possible buffer overrun, wrong parameter type passed to printf and && where || is meant. Found by MSVC's code analysis (Darkvater)
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19:29:25  <Wolf01> reboot (installing developing IDEs, it might take some time)
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19:31:34  <frosch123> rebooting after installing an ordinary piece of software... I can remember also having to do such things somewhen
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19:32:21  <Roest> i wonder what he installed, i dont remember having to reboot after installing vs2008
19:32:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i still get the shivers when i think of that...
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19:45:14  <NukeBuster> does BaNaNaS autoupdate?
19:45:32  <planetmaker> no
19:46:31  <NukeBuster> so when a new version of content I downloaded is available I should be able to redownload it manually?
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19:46:43  <planetmaker> yes
19:46:45  <Roest> looks that way
19:46:53  <NukeBuster> ok, thank you.
19:46:59  <planetmaker> you're welcome
19:47:17  <planetmaker> If you play on your own it doesn't matter that much
19:47:33  <planetmaker> And if you play online, you'll get notified that you've missing grfs. So no problem really
19:51:43  * Belugas thinks Darkvater should join the ball and move on commiting... anything
19:52:26  <Belugas> ball ?
19:52:46  * Roest kicks the ball
19:53:21  <Belugas> ballroom...  where people dance...
19:54:16  <planetmaker> :)
19:54:48  <planetmaker> which actually would be a good RL alternative... to any computer related activity
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19:56:03  <yorick> <-- is that a known error?
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20:11:48  <glx> yorick: not in trunk
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20:12:03  <yorick> heh
20:12:45  <Belugas> planetmaker, it seems that yes, newobjects are indeed in patch's trunk
20:13:14  <planetmaker> oh?
20:13:28  <planetmaker> Did you ask, Belugas ? Or did you find it?
20:14:06  <Belugas> i asked to the man
20:14:24  <Belugas> i had some more questions to ask anyway
20:14:58  <planetmaker>  :) He. Mostly people don't bite, I guess :)
20:15:04  <Roest> meaning of life and stuff?
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20:18:21  <Belugas> climatology, if you really want to know :)
20:19:54  <petern> oh, that upsets me
20:20:16  <glx> planetmaker: so you have a working OSX dev env now?
20:20:31  <planetmaker> glx: I'm just testing it. But yes, seems like
20:20:38  <Sacro> i've just installed OSX on my desktop
20:20:46  <Sacro> now to see if my 9800GTX+ will work
20:21:03  <planetmaker> Sacro: is yours a Mac? Or a hackingtosh? :P
20:21:12  <Belugas> what, petern?
20:21:12  <Sacro> planetmaker: latter
20:21:18  <planetmaker> :D
20:21:35  <planetmaker> interesting
20:22:09  <Sacro> Yes
20:22:38  <Sacro> Phenom 2 940, 4GB DDR1066, 9800GTX+
20:22:39  <planetmaker> I'll remember that when - if - I buy my next personal desktop pc :)
20:22:43  <Sacro> apple don't offer that
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20:22:50  <Powerek38> hi
20:23:10  <Sacro> hey Powerek38
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20:23:21  <Powerek38> I've just installed the lates nightly and is it normal that no competitor company is launched for the first 1,5 years of gameplay?
20:23:32  <planetmaker> absolutely
20:23:35  <Sacro> planetmaker: check the osx86 wiki and forums for parts
20:23:36  <planetmaker> you have to enable them
20:23:36  <Sacro> or ask me :p
20:23:50  <planetmaker> Sacro: I will then :)
20:24:07  <planetmaker> I read a few articles about that. Didn't seem like the easiest of endeavours
20:24:11  <Powerek38> planetmaker: and how do I do that? I've set the maximum number for 14
20:24:21  <Roest> that's alot
20:24:25  <glx> you need to get some AIs first
20:24:29  <planetmaker> Powerek38: do you have any AI?
20:24:37  <planetmaker> downloaded via content service?
20:24:41  <Sacro> planetmaker: heh, mostly it's easy
20:24:53  <Sacro> so long as you know what hardware you have and what kexts you need
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20:24:57  <Powerek38> planetmaker: some, not all of them
20:25:02  <Powerek38> all right, I'll get all
20:25:02  <planetmaker> Sacro: so... you chose the hardware accordingly?
20:25:11  <planetmaker> Powerek38: not necessary
20:25:17  <planetmaker> open the console
20:25:20  <planetmaker> type there:
20:25:27  <planetmaker> start_ai <ainame>
20:25:30  <Sacro> planetmaker: errm, no...
20:25:33  <Sacro> sgiykda dibe]
20:25:39  <planetmaker> where ainame is the name of the ai.
20:25:45  <glx> "start_ai" is enough
20:25:50  <glx> will start a random one
20:25:56  <planetmaker> then it's random? :) Thx
20:26:03  <planetmaker> you read minds, glx :)
20:26:16  <Powerek38> ok, now a really silly one: how to access the console?
20:26:23  <planetmaker> key left of 1
20:26:24  <glx> well it's random if you didn't configure the start list :)
20:26:42  <Powerek38> many thanks for your help :)
20:26:45  <Powerek38> bye!
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20:26:48  <planetmaker> you're welcome. bye
20:26:50  <planetmaker> ...
20:26:55  <glx> too late ;)
20:26:59  <planetmaker> yeah :)
20:27:17  <yorick> glx: same bug also happens on clean trunk
20:27:37  <glx> yorick: no
20:27:42  <petern> yorick: that's your compiler
20:27:45  <petern> go fix it
20:28:32  <yorick> heh
20:28:53  <Sacro> sigh, graphics card isn't working
20:28:55  <yorick> I am running the latest gcc version available with mingw
20:29:40  <planetmaker> Sacro: that's sad :S
20:29:50  <planetmaker> and much dimishes the joy of playing :D
20:29:59  <lolman> Sacro: define not working
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20:30:46  <glx> yorick: the test version?
20:30:51  <yorick> yes
20:31:00  <glx> that's your problem :)
20:31:01  <planetmaker> then get a stable version, yorick
20:31:08  <yorick> the stable version doesn't compile openttd
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20:31:21  <glx> 3.4.5 clearly does
20:31:25  <planetmaker> Err... I guess others use it?
20:32:13  <yorick> I was using that, I was told "3.4.5 is broken, switch to newer one"
20:33:25  <glx> who said that ?
20:33:52  <yorick> TB
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20:38:52  <Darkvater> amen Belugas
20:40:39  <planetmaker> hi Darkvater, high priest of ottd ;)
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20:41:09  <Roest> Wolf01 that was a long restart
20:41:40  <Wolf01> vs80 installation
20:42:00  <Wolf01> and now... where I put the files of ottd_useful?
20:42:25  <glx> just extract here somewhere and add paths in VS
20:42:37  <Roest> no put them in the include and libs dir
20:42:55  <glx> my system is easier to update :)
20:43:08  <glx> and to clean too
20:43:49  <Roest> i revert or check out a clean trunk so often that i dont like that :)
20:44:21  <Wolf01> do I need all the files or only shared and win32 folders?
20:44:41  <glx> include and win32 lib
20:45:04  <glx> but extracting the zip and set path in VS is the easier way
20:45:21  <Wolf01> ok, glx guide me :D
20:46:23  <Wolf01> I extracted the ottd_useful in d:\msys\home\OpenTTD\Ottd useful
20:46:33  <glx> extract the zip somewhere (you'll get a "OpenTTD Essentials" dir)
20:46:38  <Wolf01> yes that
20:46:50  <glx> then open VS
20:47:13  <glx> go to "Tools|Options"
20:47:45  <Wolf01> I'm here
20:48:32  <glx> "Projects and solutions"
20:48:39  <glx> "vc++ directories"
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20:49:44  <Wolf01> I should add all the subfolders or only the "Openttd essentials"?
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20:50:01  <glx> in dropdown you select "include files" and add d:\msys\home\OpenTTD\Ottd useful\OpenTTD Essentials\shared\include"
20:50:38  <glx> and win32\library for "library files"
20:52:04  <Swallow> in the meantime, please review
20:52:14  <Swallow> nvm, wrong channel
20:52:16  <Wolf01> and win32\include for include files too?
20:52:42  <glx> it's empty ;)
20:53:29  <Wolf01> oh, nice
20:56:53  <Wolf01> there is an error with dmusic "fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'dmksctrl.h': No such file or directory"
20:57:04  <glx> wrong directx version
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20:57:13  <glx> you need april 2007 IIRC
20:57:17  <Wolf01> oh
20:57:34  <glx> hmm no indeed you don't have directx at all ;)
20:57:41  <Wolf01> maybe I still have 9.0 instead of 9.0c
20:57:48  <glx> SDK I mean
20:57:58  <Wolf01> ah no, I think I don't have it
21:01:40  <Roest> Wolf01
21:02:27  <Wolf01> I was trying to open it, but seem that FF is again a bit slow
21:02:39  <Wolf01> thank you anyway
21:05:38  <Wolf01> whoa 2x500MB... I think I should have them around
21:07:47  <petern> how does OverrideManager work?
21:09:53  <petern> hmm, possibly not what i need
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21:24:52  <Nite_Owl> 'Allo 'Allo
21:28:09  <dihedral> huu huu
21:28:12  <dihedral> ;-)
21:28:43  <planetmaker> kickerikieh
21:28:47  <planetmaker> :P
21:28:49  <Belugas> waht are you look for, petern?
21:29:54  <Rubidium> Ze flashing knobs!
21:30:23  <Nite_Owl> Good moaning
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21:50:14  <Sacro> Rubidium: hehe
21:50:22  <Sacro> ze fallen madonna with ze big boobies
21:51:44  <Nite_Owl> What a mistaka to maka
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21:58:43  <planetmaker> good night folks
21:58:57  <Belugas> u2, me 2 2 all
21:58:59  <Nite_Owl> later planetmaker
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21:59:22  <Nite_Owl> later Belugas (?)
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22:07:45  <dihedral> [22:30]  <Rubidium> Ze flashing knobs! <- are they undo knobs?
22:09:30  <Aali> aircraft in flight have tile set to 0, should this not be INVALID_TILE?
22:09:46  <Yexo> why? tile 0 works fine
22:10:04  <Yexo> I do agree INVALID_TILE would be nicer, but there is no real need for it
22:10:56  <Aali> I know, it's just a code style issue
22:10:59  <Wolf01> I need to download the ms platform sdk, if I download the one for windows server 2003 is it the same? the link on the wiki points that one
22:11:04  <Aali> but it did have me confused for a while
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22:13:49  <Roest> Wolf01 for openttd?
22:13:55  <Wolf01> yes
22:14:24  <Roest> interesting
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22:30:00  <SmatZ> Aali: I was thinking about that codechange, but I wasn't sure how VehiclePosHash would handle it, and I didn't think about it further...
22:30:25  <glx> Wolf01: windows server 2003 R2 is platform sdk ;)
22:30:59  <Wolf01> ok, I'll try, last time it failed to install
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22:31:33  <Aali> I have no idea how VehiclePosHash works or even what it does :o
22:32:06  <glx> it's a very important stuff (used for vehicle collisions)
22:32:45  <Aali> aircraft can't collide though
22:34:01  <SmatZ> of course everything is doable, and I hope to do that once, but not now :-x
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22:34:26  <Aali> no rush :)
22:34:52  <SmatZ> ;-)
22:38:22  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:47:15  <rortom> hi all
22:51:05  <rortom> RoR has nearly the same coding style as ottd now :)
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23:04:05  <Eddi|zuHause> SyntaxError: future feature antigravity is not defined
23:06:40  <goodger> quite
23:06:50  * goodger supports the banning of munroe from $conference
23:08:24  <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: however, in 2.6... :P
23:09:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't try that currently ;)
23:10:55  <goodger> valhallasw: you mean 3.0, surely
23:11:12  <goodger> 2.6 has bugfixes and forward-compatibility backports
23:11:32  <Eddi|zuHause> "__future__" IS forward compatibility
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23:14:39  <valhallasw> goodger: yes and no. I checked it; it's neither in 2.6 or 3.0; only in the trunk :)
23:14:52  <valhallasw> :)
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23:16:38  <goodger> LOL
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23:19:58  <Roujin> <--- you know.. orudge is not THAT bad, Rubidium...
23:20:20  <Rubidium> Roujin: I know
23:20:24  *** Yeggstry [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:21:43  <Rubidium> but replacing a seemingly non-offensive word like 'copyrighted game' with something more offensive and saying exactly the same as someone makes people think about the real implications
23:24:10  <petern> hmm, that seems to work
23:24:30  <petern> handling changing order of railtypes in a savegame
23:25:08  <petern> not much help if one is missing, mind you
23:26:11  <Eddi|zuHause> when one is missing, do the same as the "disable elrails" switch?
23:27:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. convert everything to conventional rail
23:27:30  <petern> ah, but if the rail type is missing, it is quite posible that the vehicles designed for that rail type are also unavailable
23:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
23:27:59  <Yexo> petern: not necesarily, if there are seperate rail and vehicle sets
23:28:33  <Eddi|zuHause> but missing vehicles are handled currently, as well
23:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> why change that behaviour?
23:29:02  <petern> i'm not
23:29:12  <petern> infact, defaulting to normal rail is what happens in my code
23:30:09  <Eddi|zuHause> for the rail, yes. but the vehicles need to get "powered on rail"
23:30:55  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... why is this neko guy always bragging about how bad his computer is?
23:31:12  <thingwath> Hm, I'm sorry, but I couldn't find it... what are these rail types good for? :o)
23:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause> how about typing "railtypes" in the search bar of the wiki?
23:32:33  <petern> not simple. railtypes are not saved for vehicles. therefore if the railtype doesn't exist, the vehicles end up with something else as their railtype anyway.
23:32:55  <petern> so if a railtype is missing all you're left with is an index for railtypes on the map with no other infomration
23:32:56  <thingwath> well, I don't understand newgrfs, so that railtypes page is not very useful for me...
23:33:21  <Roujin> eddi: actually what he's doing is bragging about how he has no idea and is immune to help from others...
23:34:25  <Roujin> thingwath: currently there are only four fixed rail types, normal rail, elrail, mono and maglev. petern is working towards being able to define new rail types with newgrfs
23:35:05  <Roujin> that's what it's about..
23:35:42  <rortom> oh, nice :)
23:36:19  <Eddi|zuHause> narrow gauge electric rail
23:36:26  <thingwath> will it be possible to make a different voltage systems for elrail?
23:36:27  <Eddi|zuHause> narrow gauge rack railways
23:36:38  <rortom> cool :)
23:36:50  <rortom> i guess its quite some code to fix up :\
23:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: yes, you can do that, but how would you visually distinguish a 50 Hz from a 16 2/3 Hz system?
23:37:22  <Roujin> making something that is fixed/hardcoded flexible is not an easy task..
23:37:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the only thing that does make sense is separating catenary (often AC) from 3rd rail (often DC)
23:38:03  <Roujin> but I'm positive that he'll eventually be successful :)
23:38:12  <petern> eventually?
23:38:16  <thingwath> I don't know. :) But on the other hand, it's so strange to have 25 kV/50 Hz vehicle on the same track as the 3 kV one...
23:38:20  <petern> it's been working in the hg repo for ages ;)
23:38:59  <rortom> oh o_O
23:39:18  <rortom> also, why you switched to hg?
23:39:21  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: make the graphics flicker at that speed?
23:39:28  <Roujin> so then you didn't merge it to trunk just for fun? ;)
23:39:39  <thingwath> 50 Hz flicker on 60 Hz LCD display?
23:39:42  <thingwath> :)
23:39:42  <petern> it needs a clean up
23:39:49  <petern> it's the first incarnation, it always needs tidying
23:40:11  <Roujin> but indeed I did not know you already have a working version
23:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure the americans actually used a 60 Hz system ;)
23:40:43  <Roujin> does it also have road types?
23:40:55  <petern> nope
23:40:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Roujin: do remember that you are talking with peter "i have a patch for that" nelson ;)
23:42:21  <Roujin> petern: aww, no test grf of the sprites andythenorth made for my trails hack then yet :P
23:42:59  <Eddi|zuHause> petern: so, can we have speed limits and axle weight limits on railtypes?
23:43:07  <petern> Eddi|zuHause: nope
23:43:12  <petern> not implemented
23:43:30  <petern> wouldn't take much to add those properties though
23:43:46  <thingwath> does the game have any information about how many axles vehicles have?
23:44:07  <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: no, but the vehicle could get an axle weight property
23:44:53  <thingwath> loaded/empty?
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23:45:03  <petern> number of axles
23:45:19  <petern> then axle load is simple
23:45:33  <petern> number of axles = 2, pretty much :p
23:45:48  <petern> except for steam engines
23:46:01  <Eddi|zuHause> it might be not as simple, but the weight might be not equally divided amongst the axles
23:46:05  * Rubidium wonders how it works with liquid cargo when the tank is half filled on a slope ;)
23:46:06  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. on steam engines
23:46:16  <petern> there's not enough spread to make much difference on carriages
23:46:21  <thingwath> tank cannot be half filled :o)
23:46:39  <Rubidium> thingwath: ofcourse it can
23:46:44  <petern> Rubidium: realistic gravity!
23:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i believe the tank wagons have internal walls
23:46:54  <thingwath> well, yes, it can, but there are internal divisions
23:47:25  <Eddi|zuHause> also minimises the effect of broken wagons
23:47:45  <Eddi|zuHause> "DÀÀ Dröbbeln zÀÀhln!"
23:48:10  <rortom> just redefine gravity :|
23:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: i don't think it makes a lot of sense to distinguish empty and full axle weight, if you do that, you also would need to allow for wagons to get 80% load, in order to be used on a lighter track
23:50:10  <Eddi|zuHause> much easier to supply two different wagons
23:54:53  <fjb> Hm, a locomotive switching order comes to my mind then.
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