Log for #openttd on 22nd February 2009:
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00:30:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15551 /trunk/src/depot.cpp: -Fix [FS#2656]: [NoAI] crash when setting a depot order to the southern part of a ship depot
00:30:59  <Rubidium> palindrome time ;)
00:31:11  <smeding> lepel
00:31:16  <smeding> that's about as far as i go
00:31:20  <Rubidium> radar
00:31:27  <glx> ada
00:31:53  <smeding> q
00:32:00  <Rubidium> "baas neem een racecar neem een saab"
00:32:16  <glx> nice one
00:32:18  <smeding> heh that one's nice
00:32:26  <glx> hard to to in another language
00:32:58  <Rubidium> ;)
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00:34:27  <Sacro> able was i ere i saw elba
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02:11:59  <db48x> this Altamir guy must be slightly insane
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02:18:02  <db48x> I guess no one can say that realism is _always_ a bad thing
02:22:09  <Rubidium> should we know that guy?
02:22:12  <Belugas_nomade> nope indeed
02:22:22  <Belugas_nomade> a real girl is always a good thing
02:22:28  <Belugas_nomade> compared to a virtual one
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02:24:21  <db48x>
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02:25:34  <Nite_Owl> he just likes to play that way
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02:27:44  <db48x> clearly
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02:57:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15552 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix (r15544): some compiler/OS combinations don't like closing the same FD twice and zlib's docs weren't very clear about whether it would close a FD it didn't open.
03:01:08  <Felicitu1> insane? insane is if you try to put like 10 different database servers on a 1ghz box with 512 mb ram :)
03:01:51  <Rubidium> nah, that ain't insane
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03:02:02  <glx> depends on the query amount
03:02:16  <Felicitu1> good point
03:02:21  <Felicitu1> query amount = 0 at the moment
03:02:33  <Felicitu1> basically a test box
03:02:42  <Felicitu1> but i'm not sure if i start the tests, how the tests will perform
03:02:46  * Rubidium looks at a random MySQL server
03:02:46  <Felicitu1> might be hard to tell at the end
03:02:54  <Rubidium> uses only 27 MB of memory
03:03:55  <Rubidium> and PostgreSQL seems to be using roughly the same amount
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03:04:11  <Felicitu1> yes, but oracle is a littlebit more hungry
03:04:45  <db48x> erm
03:04:51  <db48x> I don't suppose you guys have seen my car keys?
03:05:10  <Rubidium> they're in the ignition
03:05:21  <Rubidium> or whatever it's called
03:05:23  <Felicitu1> SELECT location FROM keys WHERE owner='db48x';
03:05:24  <Felicitu1> ;)
03:05:31  <db48x> that's what I need
03:05:49  <db48x> I checked the car/ignition
03:06:08  <Nite_Owl> do you have pets
03:06:14  <db48x> no
03:06:17  <Felicitu1> you'd just have to write an interface where it automatically updates the location of your keys in the database ;)
03:06:21  <db48x> thankfully
03:06:22  <Rubidium> Felicitu1: but Oracle's installer probably won't even start on that machine
03:06:49  <glx> db48x: usually they are where you left them ;)
03:06:53  <Felicitu1> Rubidium: it's a gentoo box, so i had to install it manually
03:06:54  <Nite_Owl> have you eaten anything recently
03:07:18  <db48x> yes, but the aluminum content was quite low
03:07:34  <Felicitu1> but it works, for now. db2, oracle, sybase, firebird, mysql, postgresql so far
03:07:48  <Felicitu1> still missing sapdb and interbase
03:08:14  <db48x> Felicitu1: why, exactly?
03:08:19  <db48x> compatibility testing?
03:09:02  <Rubidium> SQL is like HTML and SQL servers are like webbrowsers; it all looks similar, but nothing complex works correctly in all
03:09:08  <Nite_Owl> did what you ate comer from the pantry or from the fridge
03:09:20  <db48x> the fridge
03:09:25  <Rubidium> Felicitu1: no dbase?
03:09:25  <db48x> freezer, to be precise
03:09:31  <db48x> Rubidium: very true
03:09:43  <Nite_Owl> check the freezer for your keys
03:10:28  <Felicitu1> Rubidium: do they have a "free" edition?
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03:10:52  <db48x> alas, nothing
03:11:07  <Rubidium> no clue; I used to work with version 4, but apparantly the latest version is 2.something
03:11:07  <Felicitu1> db48x: development purposes. i have to make sure that my ORM adapter works correctly on all these databases
03:11:18  * db48x nods
03:11:48  <Nite_Owl> did you check your pants pockets
03:11:51  <Rubidium> but then, dbase probably doesn't do sql
03:12:18  <Felicitu1> i dont know, never worked with that
03:12:26  <Nite_Owl> or coat pockets
03:13:33  <Felicitu1> Rubidium: is dbase widely used in companies?
03:14:57  <db48x> I did
03:15:06  <Rubidium> it has been the best selling DB for a few years
03:16:00  <Felicitu1> hmm i wonder if it has a client/server architecture, german wikipedia only tells alot about the desktop stuff
03:16:19  <Nite_Owl> then a room by room grid search is the only other option
03:16:42  <Rubidium> Felicitu1: you shouldn't forget MSSQL though
03:17:08  <glx> good luck ;)
03:17:16  <Felicitu1> yes, but that doesn't run on a gentoo box ;)
03:17:37  <Rubidium> tss...
03:17:40  <db48x> sure it will
03:17:43  <Felicitu1> db48x: how?
03:17:49  <Rubidium> e.g. virtualbox
03:17:57  <db48x> you can cram an virtual machine on there I'm sure
03:18:07  <Rubidium> though mono and/or wine might do the job too
03:18:11  <Felicitu1> well, erm....yes, but not on that box with that amount of memory
03:18:21  <Felicitu1> i rather install the express edition on my desktop and use that for testing
03:18:48  <Rubidium> a windows VM works fine with only 200 MB
03:19:29  <Felicitu1> hmm
03:19:31  <Felicitu1> maybe later
03:19:32  <Felicitu1> :)
03:20:34  <Felicitu1> now it's time to continue work on the ai
03:21:36  <Rubidium> for added fun you should install a non-Western Windows, like Korean ;)
03:22:02  <db48x> oh yes
03:22:15  <Rubidium> provides nice test cases for your application w.r.t. support for non-ASCII paths ;)
03:22:58  <db48x> many new and exciting bugs will come crawling out of the woodwork
03:24:21  <Felicitu1> i know, i experienced alot of odd things, especially when converting an old webserver to a new one - default charset was changed to UTF-8. took quite alot of time WHERE the wrong conversion is
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03:41:43  <db48x> mmm, character set/encoding conversions
03:44:30  <db48x> text is always so deceptively simple
03:45:42  <Felicitu1> yes
03:45:56  <Felicitu1> but inbetween the app and the database are quite a few conversions
03:46:14  <db48x> there shouldn't be
03:47:08  <Felicitu1> if configured correctly, yes. but the app author assumed iso-8859-1, php was configured for using utf-8 and assuming the database was iso-8859-1, but the database was utf-8 :)
03:47:11  <db48x> the database should hold text data on the same format your program deals with it
03:47:20  <db48x> heh
03:47:46  <db48x> and the program should always deal with unicode
03:47:56  <Felicitu1> yes - but that programmer didnt set anything and relied that the system administor (aka me) set the defaults correctly :(
03:48:19  <db48x> and for most programs, that unicode should be encoded in utf-8 or perhaps utf-16 if you have to deal with the windows api much
03:48:40  <Felicitu1> heh
03:48:48  <Felicitu1> if it was windows, i'd be happy
03:48:53  <db48x> oh?
03:48:54  <Felicitu1> but php coders always do ugly bulls* :)
03:49:08  <db48x> ah, yes. I've worked on php projects before
03:49:54  <Felicitu1> me too, and i still do it
03:50:00  <db48x> I don't think I ever will again
03:50:10  <Felicitu1> that's why there's now a need for a good ORM adapter
03:50:18  <db48x> heh
03:51:04  <db48x> have you ever used common lisp?
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03:51:45  <db48x> databases can be so easy. in common lisp the macros that you use to define a class can be overridden to both define the class and also the sql table that instances of that class will be stored in
03:52:22  <Felicitu1> no, never used that
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03:53:54  <db48x> of course, there are half a dozen different (and incompatible) implementations of that
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03:55:08  <Felicitu1> :)
03:55:42  <Felicitu1> well actually i need a complete solution, where application server and persistence server are seperated, are scalable if required, or can be built embedded
03:56:45  <db48x> right
03:58:19  <Felicitu1> ?
03:59:31  <db48x> everyone needs all of that :)
03:59:54  <Felicitu1> yes, so why isnt there such a solution :)
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04:00:21  <db48x> usually when I'm developing an app (especially in CL) I start with an SQLite database, and only later change the logic for opening/closing the database so that it uses a "real" server
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04:00:29  <db48x> other than that, there are no other changes
04:00:45  <Felicitu1> almost every project i've been working on had these problems, because the management decided "oh we dont need multiple database support", "oh we dont need scalability, our app is performant enough to run on a single server" in the first place
04:03:09  <db48x> heh
04:03:22  <Felicitu1> do you know the cms contenido?
04:05:13  <db48x> no, I don't
04:05:46  <Felicitu1> hmm, well, i used to be one of the main developers from 2003-2006
04:06:12  <Felicitu1> in the beginning, my task was only to extend the system, but lateron they decided to use contenido for every kind of application, related to web applications
04:06:39  <Felicitu1> of course, the system wasn't prepared for that and each and every extension was quite a big mess
04:07:34  <Felicitu1> so what i basically want to develop is a system for applications which are scalable from the beginning on, without requiring the developer to take special care of it
04:08:12  <db48x> mmm
04:08:16  <db48x> heard of Erlang?
04:08:30  <Felicitu1> no
04:08:36  <Felicitu1> googlin'
04:08:46  <db48x> it's a programming language that forces you (sorta) to develop in an easily parralellizable style
04:09:12  <db48x> so your test machine will be a single computer, but the live install might be a hundred machines, and the code is no different
04:09:28  <Felicitu1> well, the system must be implemented in a common language, so the apps also run virtually everywhere
04:09:59  <db48x> each subsection of your program is developed as an independant process, with no ability to share state or memory with any other process except via message passing
04:10:03  <db48x> yea, you have to install a runtime
04:10:10  <db48x> but it's open source, so it's not too bad
04:10:35  <db48x> a large program might have 80,000 of these lightweight processes running at once, on a single machine
04:10:42  <db48x> or on a dozen
04:10:49  <db48x> or on a hundred
04:11:22  <Felicitu1> i'm not sure what the overall layout will look like, but using PHP as programming language for the actual application implementation seems to be the only way. persistence server and application server itself can be implemented in another language
04:11:33  <Felicitu1> its a littlebit like an SAP system, where the applications itself are written in ABAP
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08:25:34  <Felicitu1> ahh, another won game on kurt's :) time for smoke
08:30:56  <De_ghosty> MORE BUGS IN PBS
08:30:57  <De_ghosty> :D
08:31:13  <De_ghosty> i know exactly how to build it itin
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08:40:16  <petern> there are no pbs!
08:40:45  <petern> bugs in
08:41:36  <Felicitu1> insane. let the AI build a two line track and auto placing signals plus depots is easier than i guessed
08:43:09  <Felicitu1> btw, if someone has nice station layouts he likes to see in the felicitus AI, just send me a screenshot :)
08:46:36  <petern> pom te pom
08:48:15  <Felicitu1> ?
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09:02:13  <Wolf01> hello
09:03:39  <el_en> hello
09:05:23  <planetmaker> Felicitu1: I want to see how it builds :). Get a damn first version uploaded to bananas and care about single newgrf support later then :)
09:05:58  <planetmaker> and a wonderful good morning to all :)
09:06:55  <De_ghosty> yea i found a buz
09:07:02  <De_ghosty> u want it peter?
09:07:25  <planetmaker> bugs go to
09:07:55  <De_ghosty> :o
09:08:03  <De_ghosty> why do you do that to me?!!?
09:08:09  <De_ghosty> i hate registerinbg
09:08:15  <De_ghosty> cuz i can't rememberz
09:08:20  <De_ghosty> can i just send save to u?
09:08:22  <Rubidium> then there is no bug
09:08:28  <De_ghosty> alright then
09:08:34  <De_ghosty> there is no bug
09:08:53  <planetmaker> De_ghosty: just use one stupid login+pw for all the stuff you don't want to register to but don't want
09:09:19  <De_ghosty> geeze
09:09:50  <planetmaker> -want (in a proper place)
09:09:59  <De_ghosty> omgz send code.......
09:10:41  <Felicitu1> howdy planetmaker  :
09:10:43  <Felicitu1> :)
09:10:55  <Felicitu1> planetmaker: well, as it is now, it would build a single line + train then stops
09:11:04  <planetmaker> oh :)
09:11:16  <planetmaker> I thought it would build more than one line :)
09:11:18  <Felicitu1> but i dont want to have a basic version and then extend it later
09:11:21  <Felicitu1> no not yet
09:11:25  <Felicitu1> i hope i can do that today
09:11:30  <planetmaker> nice.
09:11:34  <Felicitu1> but i first want the "extending stations" stuff done
09:11:40  <Felicitu1> because thats important
09:11:47  <planetmaker> From what I read from you, it sounds quite promising
09:12:03  <Felicitu1> well i am pretty excited myself, because things went so smoothly
09:12:17  <planetmaker> it was also you with the pathfinder with the faster, but not necessarily best way, right?
09:12:25  <Felicitu1> yes
09:12:33  *** Felicitu1 is now known as Felcitus
09:12:59  <Felcitus> i planned that i use the aystar pathfinder only for the first line(s), as the line network stuff operates a littlebit different
09:17:17  <Felcitus> btw, is the Pathfinder.Rail done by truebrain or someone else?
09:17:50  <Rubidium> Yexo IIRC
09:18:14  <Felcitus> okay, i have to ask him nicely if he can add a multiplicator to _estimate ;)
09:18:28  <petern> multiplicator?
09:18:38  <Felcitus> yes, to speed up the line planning
09:19:12  <petern> multiplier?
09:19:17  <Felcitus> yes, multiplier
09:23:14  <Felcitus> hmm, a nice feature i could add later is to track the usage of a built line...if the line is near max capacity, the ai could extend to a 4-track main line *yay*
09:24:45  <De_ghosty> which makes the junction expoentially harder to make
09:25:32  <Felcitus> De_ghosty: junctions are template-based in my ai, it will be just as easy as extending/upgrading stations
09:26:39  <Felcitus> so i'm looking forward for the ai to build things like and
09:33:56  <planetmaker> yes, multiplier
09:33:58  <planetmaker> [10:22]	<Felcitus>	hmm, a nice feature i could add later is to track the usage of a built line...if the line is near max capacity, the ai could extend to a 4-track main line *yay* <-- that'd be scary :P
09:34:53  <Felcitus> why? :) there must be some challenge for the pros :)
09:35:06  <planetmaker> hehe
09:35:14  <planetmaker> True
09:35:29  <Felcitus> okay, to be honest, the only f***in reason i write this AI is because i do not want to connect everything on a 2048x2048 map by myself :P
09:37:08  <planetmaker> Lol!
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09:38:15  <De_ghosty> lol
09:38:20  <De_ghosty> he is gonna join mutiplayer game
09:38:24  <De_ghosty> and set his ai on hihg
09:39:32  <Felcitus> silence!
09:41:48  <Felcitus> don't tell others my trick :P
09:45:38  <planetmaker> He, yeah, Kurt's server are easy :P
09:45:54  <Felcitus> it depends against whom you play
09:46:11  <planetmaker> sure :)
09:46:51  <planetmaker> when I joined with two mates, the others gave up after 6 years :P
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09:47:42  <planetmaker> but might be that coop is frowned upon on that server. dunno
09:48:40  <Felcitus> no, coop is allowed, but if you coop you only get half of the points
09:48:55  <Felcitus> *sniff*
09:49:07  <planetmaker> doesn't matter. We tried twice. Easy going each time
09:49:12  <Felcitus> it builds stations prepared for dual line, but it doesnt build the dual line :(
09:49:25  <planetmaker> but fun :)
09:49:26  <Felcitus> happy bug hunting :(
09:49:38  <planetmaker> (not the bugs)
09:50:00  <Felcitus> :)
09:50:06  <Felcitus> lol okay i found the bug
09:50:14  <Felcitus> and well....uhm...yes...the pathfinder needs to be optimized
09:50:20  <Felcitus> it builds bridges over its own tracks!
09:50:27  <planetmaker> lol
09:50:37  <planetmaker> sounds like the old AI :P
09:51:25  <Felcitus> ok, a multiplier of 1.5 did the trick
09:53:56  <planetmaker> Rubidium: I guess you can close the first fs entry from De_ghosty
09:54:00  <planetmaker> concerning pbs.
09:56:02  <planetmaker> I don't know what exactly the bug is - but it sent our PS into an endless loop
09:56:29  <planetmaker> might be a duplicate of something reportet even earlier - if that wasn't fixed now. Don't remember
09:56:36  <De_ghosty> o
09:56:45  <De_ghosty> the ps one was weird
09:58:03  <planetmaker> ... nor do I find the other FS entry
09:59:01  <planetmaker> it's IMO a critical bug. It poses means to shoot a server into nirvana
10:00:25  <planetmaker> by malicious players :P
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10:28:02  <el_en> Bjarni!
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10:36:20  <Felcitus> hmm, this doesn't work as expected:
10:38:10  <Roest> what did you expect?
10:38:27  <Felcitus> that it connects the oil to an oil refinery :)
10:38:41  <Felcitus> but instead, it built a loop for some reason
10:38:59  <insulfrog> hi
10:39:02  <planetmaker> he
10:39:59  * petern wonders if he left autosaves on :o
10:40:19  <planetmaker> that's not quite the layout as described in your thread, Felcitus :) - it' symmetric now :P
10:40:35  <petern> hmm
10:40:38  <Felcitus> :P
10:40:59  <planetmaker> is it meant to be a two-way station?
10:41:00  <petern> apparently i did
10:41:06  <Felcitus> planetmaker: yes
10:41:21  <Felcitus> but for some reason it decided to connect to itself
10:41:22  <planetmaker> (I'm not talking of roro)
10:41:32  <Felcitus> oh well no
10:41:36  <Roest> if sorting by cargo capacity doesn't work for trams is that more a problem of the game or of the grf?
10:41:36  <planetmaker> I wonder about the depots at both sides of the station
10:41:56  <Felcitus> good point
10:42:07  <Felcitus> i guess it built the roro start and end station at the same spot
10:42:17  <planetmaker> he
10:42:24  <Felcitus> that explain why it connected to itself
10:42:43  <Felcitus> HEH
10:42:46  <Felcitus> i found the reason :)
10:42:54  <Felcitus> the oil refinery was closed down during construction
10:43:22  <Felcitus> and i think the station builder got the old coordinates then
10:44:15  <planetmaker> :)
10:44:15  <planetmaker> The company could also pour all the oil into the water well. Would make people happy, I guess :P
10:44:23  <planetmaker> oh. :)
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10:44:44  <planetmaker> Yeah, all those nice things which happen during construction
10:47:51  <petern> hmm
10:48:23  <petern> the network server 'loading a game when a game is loaded' problem still exists :(
10:48:57  <Rubidium> the what problem?
10:50:16  <Rubidium> is that related to the 'save preset' segfault?
10:52:57  <petern> er
10:53:01  <petern> no
10:53:18  <petern> aww
10:53:19  <petern> Error: [net] Trying to execute a packet in the past!
10:53:19  <petern> openttd: /home/petern/ottd/svn/0.7.0-beta1/src/openttd.cpp:115: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed.
10:53:29  <petern> which is quite funky for a server :p
10:53:38  <Rubidium> already solved that
10:57:23  <petern> okay
10:57:36  <petern> i meant to look at it months ago but forgot :p
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11:52:46  <Jag> hello
11:54:26  <Alberth> hello
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12:23:50  <Felcitus> planetmaker: i have good news for you :)
12:23:57  <planetmaker> hm?
12:24:29  <Felcitus> i'm almost done with a preview version
12:25:03  <planetmaker> nice!
12:25:55  <Felcitus> i just have to find out why it doesn't build a depot sometimes, even if there is an error handling
12:26:29  <Mortomes>
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12:41:28  <Bjarni> Mortomes: according to that overview I would be web developer, sysadmin, hacker and programmer today... yet I don't feel like I have free time :s
12:41:50  <Mortomes> Bjarni: You're doing something wrong then :P
12:42:04  <Bjarni> yeah
12:42:17  <Bjarni> I should have been a programmer in the 80's
12:42:51  <Bjarni> their union stated that they were not allowed to get other tasks while their code compiled so they had pool tables and stuff
12:43:03  <Bjarni> because compilers of that age were kind of slow
12:45:01  <KingJ>
12:45:21  <KenjiE20> ^ was wondering when that'd show up :P
12:46:03  <KingJ> It was a race to see who would post it first
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12:51:23  <Felcitus> hmm, have there been some changes to the acceleration of trains? a cs2400 in tropical with 19 wagons climbing a height difference of 1 takes nearly forever :(
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12:53:36  <Felcitus> planetmaker: tgz or zip?
12:53:49  <planetmaker> I don't care, Felcitus
12:53:54  <Felcitus> ok
12:56:17  <Felcitus> planetmaker:
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12:56:42  <Felcitus> you need to make sure that it loads the bundled libraries (or at least the rail pathfinder)
12:56:59  <Tefad> ack. i clicked on open gfx in the onlinecontent thing
12:57:02  <Tefad> now i have black boxes
12:57:15  <Tefad> how do i revert?
12:57:22  <planetmaker> ok Felcitus :) Will try. I think I have those
12:57:32  <planetmaker> it should load them automatically then, I think, right?
12:57:45  <Felcitus> i don't know what happens if you have libraries from the content download
12:57:46  <KenjiE20> Tefad; game options
12:57:55  <Tefad> oh i see. thanks
12:58:01  <planetmaker> well. That's where I have them from, yes
12:58:04  <Felcitus> it's important that you have the bundled one, because there's a change by me. i need to talk to yexo if he can include that in his railpathfinder
12:58:06  <Tefad> wow. that was easy
12:59:04  <Felcitus> and dont be disappointed - right now it simply tries to connect anything on the map. so nothing spectacular for now. i need to work on the station upgrade later, but now i finally need some sleep
12:59:50  <Felcitus> but if there's some trouble with the AI (like: it dont populate the line with a train or such), it would be interesting to know
13:01:19  <Felcitus> last cigarette for today, and in the meanwhile i let FelicitusAI and AdmiralAI play against each other :P
13:02:06  * Bjarni points out that Felcitus is in a no smoking area
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13:07:03  <KingJ> Hmm, activating the game speed boost seems to do nothing now, wonder if 700 trains and 700 road vehicles is too much
13:07:44  <KingJ> plus a 100 or so ships and 50 aircraft
13:07:56  <petern> it just means your computer is too slow
13:07:59  <petern> to run it faster
13:08:12  <KingJ> And OTTD isn't SMP aware is it?
13:08:31  <petern> only where it can be
13:09:46  <Tefad> save/load i think is most often eh?
13:10:56  <KingJ> I've got a Q9550, running at standard 2.8GHz
13:11:21  <Tefad> i don't think anything above 2x CPU helps
13:11:42  <Felcitus> time for bed
13:11:43  <Felcitus> good night
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13:11:59  <KingJ> Also running cargo/passenger destinations, which also adds extra load I guess
13:12:38  <KingJ> And running at quite a high resolution
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13:13:05  <Tefad> large maps i think are the most demanding
13:13:15  <KingJ> 2048^2 map too
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13:19:26  <planetmaker> he...
13:19:29  <planetmaker> darn.
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14:37:16  <insulfrog> hi all
14:39:13  <insulfrog> I have a quick question
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14:40:05  <insulfrog> is it possible to have co-operative play with a 'NoAI' computer player?
14:40:39  <glx> no
14:41:32  <insulfrog> ah, thanks :)
14:42:14  <insulfrog> (be nice to do that though :p )
14:44:17  <insulfrog> a NoAI does roads and air transport while a person does rails
14:44:20  * insulfrog dreams
14:51:57  <Tefad> yeah until the AI eats all your cash
14:54:19  <insulfrog> well yeah, that'll be the problem
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15:13:11  <Ammler> something changed with autosave filenames?
15:13:29  <glx> why?
15:13:36  <frosch123> for dedicated servers: yes
15:13:46  <Ammler> really ugly names now on our server :-)
15:14:10  <Ammler> not loadable over ap anymore :-(
15:14:11  <glx> then keep_all_autosave is true :)
15:14:23  <Ammler> ah, thanks.
15:17:07  <Ammler> in general, openttd should "filter" the company name before using it as filename
15:17:27  <Ammler> we have also many troubles here, if someone publish his screens :-)
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15:18:25  <Ammler> !ip
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15:18:51  <Ammler> sorry :-$
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15:23:10  <fonsinchen> I want to use the route map from cargodest as capacity indicator, that is, I'd like to annotate the edges with the maximum capacity they can carry in a given timeframe. I already have a way to calculate the capacities. Is there a recommended way to print them as strings in the minimap?
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15:27:24  <planetmaker> is there a way to set the filename for autosaves?
15:28:39  <glx> not that I remember
15:30:33  <frosch123> you can change the format of the date
15:31:19  <planetmaker> yeah. I found the date format
15:31:31  <planetmaker> The problem I have is the spaces in the file names.
15:31:52  <glx> do you really need to keep all ?
15:31:55  <planetmaker> They tend to pose difficulties with shell environments
15:32:24  <planetmaker> glx: No, I don't need all, but saves of maybe a half a day or so, by the minute or two minutes
15:32:28  <frosch123> change STR_GAME_SAVELOAD_SPECTATOR_SAVEGAME
15:33:26  <planetmaker> frosch123: that's a patch then :)
15:33:26  <glx> you can change max_num_autosaves
15:33:40  <planetmaker> glx: the number of saves is not a problem. The filename
15:33:43  <glx> and disable keep_all_autosave
15:33:59  <planetmaker> we disabled keep_all_autosave
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15:34:08  <planetmaker> set max_num_autosaves = 255
15:34:26  <planetmaker> -rw-r--r-- 1 openttd users 535706 2009-02-22 16:32 Wandering Waters LtD, 1st Feb 2030.sav
15:34:32  <planetmaker> which gives us these results
15:34:41  <glx> then there's a bug :)
15:35:08  <glx> ** Create an autosave. The default name is "autosave#.sav". However with
15:35:08  <glx>  * the setting 'keep_all_autosave' the name defaults to company-name + date */
15:36:05  <glx> and the code clearly does that
15:36:10  <petern> it does
15:36:18  <petern> so you must have keep_all_autosave enabled
15:36:44  <fonsinchen> OK, to rephrase it a bit: Why is "static char *FormatNoCommaNumber(char *buff, int64 number, const char *last)" static?
15:36:58  <fonsinchen> in strings.cpp
15:37:07  <glx> because it's used only from this file
15:37:19  <fonsinchen> I want to use it somewhere else
15:37:24  <petern> no you don't
15:37:26  <fonsinchen> Or is there an alternative?
15:37:29  <petern> you want to draw strings
15:37:33  <fonsinchen> yes
15:37:41  <fonsinchen> a string consisting of a single number.
15:37:43  <glx> then DrawString :)
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15:38:58  <dihedral> glx, is there also a GoFish()?
15:39:22  <fonsinchen> How do I get a StringID for my numbers?
15:39:44  <planetmaker> hm... right. Obviously two many people mess up things. Sorry, glx. It works
15:39:55  <planetmaker> s/two/too/
15:40:01  <planetmaker> ,though too many = two :P
15:40:25  <planetmaker> probably simultaneous editing of the cfg :*
15:40:30  <planetmaker> :P
15:43:50  <Ammler> planetmaker: :P
15:44:09  <Ammler> openttd needed a restart
15:45:32  * planetmaker hugs Ammler
15:45:32  <glx> STR_00E2, STR_00E3, STR_01CB, STR_01E5, STR_0212, STR_021F, STR_7024, STR_TINY_BLACK, STR_GROUP_TINY_NUM
15:45:48  <glx> fonsinchen: all these draw just a number
15:46:16  <glx> the right one depends on what you want to draw exactly
15:46:21  <fonsinchen> Ah, so I do a SetDParam and then call DrawString with that ID?
15:46:27  <glx> yes
15:46:33  <fonsinchen> thanks
15:46:53  <glx> some specify color and/or size
15:47:13  <fonsinchen> I'll try them and see what looks best
15:48:09  <glx> better look for them in english.txt first :)
15:48:26  <petern> stringid lottery?
15:48:31  <fonsinchen> ah, ok
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15:57:31  <Jolteon> Howdy.
15:57:36  <Jolteon> I require assistance.
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15:58:06  <Jolteon> I cannot build a train station, it says "Can't build train station" in true OpenTTD useless help message style.
15:58:34  <KenjiE20> where, what and how
15:58:36  <planetmaker> as reported in true useless bug report style
15:58:43  <Jolteon> ..........wat?
15:59:48  <Jolteon>
15:59:52  <planetmaker> e.g. describe what you _want_ to achieve, what you actually _did_ and when and where it exactly failed (from your expectations)
15:59:59  <Jolteon> Ignore the hideous aspect of GTFO I'M BUILDING IN UR CITY.
16:00:14  <Jolteon> the council didn't approve of my actions, so i turned on the cheat and just demolished half of it.
16:00:26  <Jolteon> I bribed the council and built trees to get it back up to reasonable liking of me.
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16:00:51  <dihedral> [16:58]  <Jolteon> I require assistance. <- require as much as you like, people dont usually like the word though ;-)
16:01:13  <Alberth> maybe the city just started a new building in your cleared aera?
16:01:29  <Jolteon> Alberth: no, i've tried that.
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16:02:03  <dihedral> you must build a 2 track wide station
16:02:06  <dihedral> can you not read?
16:02:12  <dihedral> you are doing drag & drop on the station
16:02:37  <dihedral> the station however has a requirement of being 2 tracks wide, which is clearly visible by the '1' button under Tracks being greyed out
16:02:39  <KenjiE20> ^
16:02:56  <Tefad> the error message does need improving
16:03:02  <Jolteon> oh
16:03:03  <Jolteon> I see the error.
16:03:11  <Jolteon> But I do want to now make a suggestion.
16:03:17  <Jolteon> Can you make the error messages a bit more revealing?
16:03:23  <Jolteon> Currently they're a bit ... generic.
16:03:47  <dihedral> depends on what is made possible to grf's :-P
16:03:57  <dihedral> and it is probably based on the grf (the message that is)
16:04:02  <Alberth> file a bug report in would be best if it does not exist already
16:04:31  <dihedral> Alberth, it's only worth it if the error message is not set in the grf (i dont know if that at all is possible)
16:04:54  <dihedral> but if it is a message from the grf, then you'd have to make the suggestion to the author
16:04:59  <dihedral> (of the grf that is)
16:05:29  <Alberth> dihedral: right. Jolteon: plz ignore my suggestion :)
16:05:57  <dihedral> glx can probably enlighten here
16:06:08  <Alberth> we let too many things get decided by the GRF authors :)
16:07:18  <frosch123> that message is not from the grf :)
16:07:57  <Roest> ok, now that i added 1 wagon to 420 trains each, is there an automatic way to do it?
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16:09:02  <yorick> any idea how to refuse CMD_COMPANY_CTRL from the server while still closing the progress window?
16:09:27  <dihedral> in what way
16:09:38  <dihedral> and why?
16:10:38  <dihedral> yorick, ^
16:13:36  <dihedral> refusing it client side, does not seem to make a lot of sense to me
16:18:15  <dihedral> well, then i guess i cannot help you ;-)
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16:34:40  <insulfrog> cyas
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16:35:20  <Ammler> frosch123: is your source for the "noIndClose" GRF public?
16:36:34  <frosch123> manual industries? well, the original source does not look very different as if you run the grf through grfcodec and nforenum :p
16:36:40  <Ammler> this one:
16:36:45  <frosch123> but the grf itself is gpled
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16:37:41  <frosch123> so in this case I define the grf as the source :)
16:37:52  <Ammler> :-)
16:38:20  <dihedral> frosch123, so you wrote the grf by hand, did not use anything to 'generate' it?
16:39:06  <Ammler> no, but he is a guy, who as all properities in mind, so he don't need to comment them ;-)
16:39:21  <frosch123> that grf is by hand, it consists of 3 pseudo sprites :)
16:40:24  <frosch123> Ammler: no, but I did not bothered commenting it
16:40:48  <frosch123> run it through grf2html and it will be better than the original
16:40:58  <Ammler> already did
16:41:35  <Ammler> I would like to enable "closing" for PS for a test
16:42:05  <Ammler> I thought, I could check your grf to see which properity that is :-)
16:42:47  <frosch123> 0B
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16:44:34  <Ammler> frosch123: 0 means no closing?
16:44:35  <planetmaker> hehe. You change one byte, claim (co-)authorship and then upload it to Bananas, Ammler? :P
16:44:48  <frosch123> 0 means behave like powerplant
16:45:24  <frosch123> Ammler:
16:46:01  <Ammler> I know that table, but the descripton of 0B isn't that clear to me.
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16:46:46  <frosch123> at most set one bit of prop 0B
16:47:33  <Ammler> what do you think (or maybe know), how a serviced PS will behave?
16:47:38  <planetmaker> hehe. I still like the wording of the announcment of that grf, frosch123 :)
16:48:08  <frosch123> 0 means no production changes no closing, 1 and 2 mean primary industry (iirc the difference is only some map colour), 4 means no production changes and as probability for closing after 5 years no service
16:48:23  <frosch123> what is a 'PS' ?
16:48:30  <Ammler> PowerStation?
16:49:24  <frosch123> so you want powerstations to close down like a not-serviced processing industry?
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16:49:57  <Ammler> I was in thinking, that you have to set "no production" industries to "no closing" else it could disapear even if serviced.
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16:51:25  <frosch123> only delivery matters
16:51:34  <Ammler> I told that to FIRS and Eddi|zuHause laught at me
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16:52:00  <Ammler> frosch123: how can delivery matter for a coal mine?
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16:52:21  <frosch123> btw. the only difference for 'extractive' and 'organic' is, that nearby stations will be named 'mines' or 'woods'
16:52:32  <dihedral> coal mines should have a start value, and if that amount was exhausted (transported) they close :-D
16:52:50  <Ammler> dihedral: PBI
16:52:52  <frosch123> Ammler: for processing industries only delivery matters
16:52:57  <Ammler> or ECS does that too.
16:54:07  <Ammler> frosch123: so setting PS to processing industries should fix that?
16:54:29  <frosch123> yes, should be enough
16:55:24  <Ammler> hmm, now I don't see a reason, why TTO set PS that way.
16:55:44  <Ammler> menno. :-(
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17:06:59  <Radtoo> hi, does anyone have an idea what might be messing ottd's performance on a linux box?
17:07:13  <FauxFaux> uYou.
17:07:14  <frosch123> Ammler: <- better?
17:07:32  <Radtoo> *messing up.
17:08:09  <dihedral> Radtoo, other processes?
17:08:21  <dihedral> how should we know?
17:08:29  <Radtoo> dihedral: none that take up much performance.
17:08:31  <dihedral> we dont know what you are expecting
17:08:37  <Radtoo> But in particular, scaling the window size and raising the resolution of the game kills performance.
17:08:41  <dihedral> we dont know what map you are playing
17:08:46  <dihedral> how many industries are there
17:08:48  <Radtoo> doesn't matter.
17:08:48  <dihedral> or vehicles
17:10:13  <Radtoo> It starts right from the title screen.
17:10:24  <dihedral> what res?
17:10:41  <Radtoo> 800x600 in full screen already does... windowed still seems okay'ish
17:10:51  <dihedral> on any new game?
17:11:05  <Radtoo> Yes. Just openttd tho.
17:11:24  <dihedral> not loading a save game, starting a new one right
17:11:29  <Radtoo> Yes.
17:12:06  <dihedral> what about starting the game with -s null ?
17:12:56  <Radtoo> nope. doesn't change that its slow. given the symptoms, I'd say it something to do with the graphics display...
17:13:17  <Radtoo> Although other SDL-based programs run fine, as does opengl based stuff.
17:13:50  <dihedral> zoomed out?
17:14:18  <Radtoo> same if I'm zoomed in or out on the game
17:16:30  <frosch123> any difference if using '-b 8bpp-optimized' or '-b 32bpp-optimized'?
17:17:31  <Ammler> frosch123: thank you :-) (what does e.g. mean, btw.?)
17:17:44  <Radtoo> Yes, 32bpp-optimized is slightly better...
17:17:45  <frosch123> exempli gratia
17:20:18  <frosch123> or 'for example' for uneducated :p
17:20:20  <Radtoo> ... is there perhaps any known problems with ATI's drivers? Googled, but found nothing...
17:20:51  * dihedral has an ati driver and has no issues what so ever
17:21:08  <Radtoo> 64bit linux as well?
17:21:33  <dihedral> i doubt that would cause your issue
17:22:40  <Radtoo> Well, my best uneducated guess is that somewhere between sdl and my drivers there's something inadequate. :)
17:22:55  <Radtoo> It's clearly not the process priority or cpu resources.
17:23:04  <dihedral> if that were the case, dont you think there would be a few more bug reports?
17:23:53  <Radtoo> I guess that's what I came here for, to ask if you know anything besides the bug reports that don't seem to be there :p.
17:24:09  <dihedral> hehe
17:24:21  <dihedral> + if it were what you assume, it would exist for other apps too
17:25:30  <Radtoo> Dunno, not everyone might implement SDL the way openttd does or something...
17:26:26  <Radtoo> All I can see here is that for no apparent reason at all, openttd has very poor performance on a very fast machine...
17:26:52  <planetmaker> Radtoo: maybe you define "fast" machine and "poor performance" :)
17:27:11  <planetmaker> they're by these words not really measurable...
17:27:26  <frosch123> so using 32bpp or 8bpp had no impact?
17:27:39  <Radtoo> frosch123: no, i said 32bpp was better...
17:27:52  <frosch123> oh, missed that
17:29:08  <Radtoo> planetmaker: Q9550 / 8GB ram / ati 4780 model video card. and I don't know any way to benchmark ottd well, but performance is worse than original transport tycoon on that old... was it, i386? Low fps, periodic (although very short) no new frames...
17:30:33  <Radtoo> planetmaker: Its hard to describe accurately in other words than "poor performance" tho, unless you got some means to benchmark it?
17:30:58  <dihedral> look at top, give us some info, what is 'lag'
17:31:25  <planetmaker> hm... video card shouldn't matter
17:31:36  <dihedral> poor performance is hardly anything that we can comment on
17:31:39  <planetmaker> only cpu is used for openttd
17:31:45  <Radtoo> as I said, no processes interfering, system is more or less idle, openttd odesnt cause lots of load...
17:31:58  <dihedral> Radtoo, it still can matter!
17:32:00  <planetmaker> and I don't know Q9550 :P
17:32:02  <Radtoo> reniced the process and it didn't matter...
17:32:33  <dihedral> Radtoo, what is the clock on each core?
17:32:35  <Radtoo> planetmaker: intel quad core 2.8ghz per core, yorkfield.
17:32:37  <KingJ> 2.83
17:32:46  <KingJ> I've got the same config, except for RAM (4GB)
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17:32:54  <dihedral> quack
17:33:00  <planetmaker> :D
17:33:19  <planetmaker> Radtoo: that should suffice to play 1k^2 maps with 1k trains nicely
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17:33:33  <planetmaker> it nearly works on the old P4 here
17:33:35  <Radtoo> If not more, exactly...
17:33:41  <planetmaker> with intel chipset graphics
17:33:51  <dihedral> graphics is unimporatant
17:33:54  <planetmaker> Radtoo: probably. But only one core counts
17:34:02  <planetmaker> dihedral: see above :) yes
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17:34:20  <Radtoo> I can play it fine on my dual core laptop, it plays fine on my brothers amd64, but not here in my comfy desktop machine's chair, for whatever reason.
17:34:28  <Radtoo> I know.
17:35:00  <Radtoo> But openttd is about the only 4-8% load on that core...
17:35:29  <dihedral> did you compile yourself?
17:36:38  <Radtoo> Yep.
17:36:45  <Radtoo> But the binary also behaves the same way, so...
17:37:04  <dihedral> any newGRFs you load?
17:37:06  <Radtoo> It's also the same between 0.7.0 beta1 and 0.6.1 ...
17:37:33  <Radtoo> I even tried that... but generally I have none.
17:37:52  <Radtoo> (newgrf only tried on 0.7.0 beta1)
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17:41:22  <Mark> Hmm, can you turn off a bot who's company you taken over?
17:41:25  <Mark> hmm
17:41:30  <Mark> who's wrong
17:41:40  <Mark> Hope you understand anyway :)
17:41:49  <dihedral> does it not do that automatically?
17:42:06  <Radtoo> Mark: On the beta or the stable versions?
17:42:13  <dihedral> i take it you are cheating Mark
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17:43:16  <Mark> dihedral: yeah, just downloaded this game from openttd-forums
17:43:22  <Mark> Radtoo: nightly
17:43:43  <Radtoo> Hmkay, well, I guess I get the overall picture. Performance bottlenecks you had usually to almost always were on the CPU and y'dont recognize this problem of mine, even with similar hardware. Well, thats already valuable info. :D
17:44:20  <dihedral> ^^
17:44:28  <Mark> I bought it instead
17:44:35  <dihedral> Radtoo, i can tell you that you will not have the issue if you start openttd with -D
17:45:24  <Radtoo> dihedral: well, that seems to run but I have no good clue if it performs well. :)
17:45:40  <dihedral> it does
17:45:42  <Radtoo> dihedral: I figure I could find out with another machine.
17:45:58  <Radtoo> oh, you tried?
17:46:27  <Radtoo> k...
17:48:04  <dihedral> -D = dedicated server
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17:51:18  <Radtoo> ... mmkay. So it was the darn ati drivers.
17:52:07  <Radtoo> Don't ask me why ONLY this game out of all applications (including 3d, emulators, ... yadda yadda) failed. Ati might just hate it for people not needing new hardware to play it or something ;)
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17:53:31  <Radtoo> s/ati/amd
17:54:56  <Radtoo> tyvm again...
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18:25:01  <glx> Radtoo: try disabling full animation
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18:29:58  <Maarten-> ugh
18:30:15  * Maarten- slaps yorick around with a pink Macintosh
18:30:32  <dihedral> "there is just one thing we can do... either we flee or we kill him"
18:30:33  <dihedral> lol
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18:30:44  <dihedral> Maarten, ?
18:30:59  <energetic> whatever happend to the diagonal terraform patch?
18:31:46  <dihedral> it tripped and fell down the stairs
18:31:56  <dihedral> broke it's neck
18:32:47  <dihedral> energetic, are you just looking for the patch, or what exactly do you want?
18:33:47  <petern> we're not allowed to call it terraforming now
18:34:13  <dihedral> oh?
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18:36:20  <el_en> should we organize a native-english-speakers-speaking-non-english-day on this channel?
18:36:51  <dihedral> vat du yu meen bey zat?
18:38:11  * yorick slaps Maarten- around with a black acer ferrari
18:38:27  <dihedral> oh my word
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18:47:26  <energetic> just wondering why it didnt came into trunk, as it sounds to be a usefull feature
18:47:37  <Bjarni> <el_en> should we organize a native-english-speakers-speaking-non-english-day on this channel? <--- let's pick a language for every Sunday and kick everybody using a different language
18:48:39  <energetic> multiple patches where created though none integrated. one of those is
18:49:26  <Bjarni> let's start next Sunday with some obscene language
18:49:30  <Bjarni> like Swedish
18:50:00  <dihedral> energetic, reasons for not being included (not limited to): coding style not followed, badly implemented, not well tested, buggy, not something the devs want to include
18:50:37  <energetic> ok. Is there any log of this? So I can check it out myself instead of asking? Like patch x rejected because y?
18:51:06  <Alberth> Bjarni: Klingon
18:51:30  <energetic> Alberth: no. Only string encoded in BrainFuck.
18:51:38  <energetic> Klingon is too easy :)
18:51:43  <Bjarni> yeah
18:51:54  <dihedral> energetic, no
18:52:01  <Bjarni> it needs to be obscene and something only "special" people can figure out
18:52:07  <Bjarni> so Swedish is a good choice
18:52:26  <dihedral> energetic, unless you want to read irc logs and forum posts
18:52:33  <energetic> right.
18:52:45  <dihedral> chance that it was mentioned somewhere public are quite good
18:53:46  <energetic> I just want to dive into ottd code my way. One way is analyzing patches. And knowing why it isnt good enough for trunk
18:54:16  <energetic> and integrating patches into my own build.
18:54:18  <dihedral> energetic, could very well be that something is coded alright, just no devs want it ;-)
18:54:24  <energetic> i know.
18:54:41  <energetic> But some functionality seems so obvious that thats out of the question
18:55:34  <energetic> and it becomes a technicality instead of a decision
18:59:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15553 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt japanese.txt polish.txt spanish.txt):
18:59:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-22 18:58:31
18:59:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 2 changed by belugas (2)
18:59:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: japanese - 67 fixed by ickoonite (67)
18:59:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 3 fixed by xaxa (3)
18:59:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 38 changed by erregerre (38)
18:59:23  <dihedral> energetic, every patch is a decision!
19:01:43  <el_en> Bjarni: a great idea. och svenska Àr ju ett bra språk att börja med.
19:04:49  *** tosse [] has joined #openttd
19:05:05  <planetmaker> energetic: with a bit of patching experience it gets easier to tell what things are considered decently implemented and what not :) There's no easy way to figure that, though, I think
19:05:16  <planetmaker> It can only be seen by examples...
19:07:08  <planetmaker> some long-time patches I certain wish to hit trunk where _i_ don't see problems, but then I don't have a complete overview of the code. So...
19:07:19  <planetmaker> ... enjoy patching :)
19:21:22  <planetmaker> he, the new client limit rocks!
19:21:28  <planetmaker> We have 16 people playing currently :)
19:21:54  <planetmaker> two thumbs up for all :)
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19:29:40  <Bjarni> el_en: :)
19:29:58  <Bjarni> now we see the "special" person :P
19:35:53  <energetic> Well I have seen some code in my life so it shouldnt be too hard to sniff out bad patches
19:39:41  <dihedral> energetic, good luck :-)
19:40:48  <energetic> Beautiful code can make me cry. The opposite happens too :)
19:42:07  <Bjarni> funny it takes !Beautiful code to make me cry (specially if it's mandatory to understand it)
19:49:18  *** davis [] has joined #openttd
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19:50:23  <energetic> -> isnt this just a bug?
19:50:35  *** Mortal [] has joined #openttd
19:51:08  <davis> .
19:52:04  <Bjarni> looks like davis has a point
19:52:16  <davis> yes sir , i do.
19:53:04  <Eddi|zuHause> · <- i have a better point
19:53:27  <energetic> : I have more?
19:53:44  * Bjarni calls pacman
19:53:49  <davis> (<
19:53:52  <Bjarni> we need to get this channel cleaned
19:54:14  <davis> afk for dinner , bbs
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19:57:32  <Belugas_nomade> hey :D my son has lost his very first tooth !!
19:57:42  * Belugas_nomade dances!!
19:57:52  <Prof_Frink> Stop punching him in the face.
19:58:06  <Eddi|zuHause> he rammed into the wall edge while racing his toy car?
19:58:21  <Belugas_nomade> does not need that, Prof_Frink : he's like me, a saint ;)
19:58:44  <Eddi|zuHause> (my brother actually did that... was not very pleasant)
19:59:09  <Belugas_nomade> Eddi|zuHause: no, mom rushed to the dentist since kiddo was in pain.  mothers will never change...
19:59:22  <Belugas_nomade> the doc just tilted it forth a bit and ... pooof
19:59:32  <Belugas_nomade> duh...
19:59:35  <davis> -20:57:52- (Prof_Frink) Stop punching him in the face.
19:59:37  <davis> made me laugh
19:59:40  <davis> :o
19:59:48  <Belugas_nomade> going back to the "party"
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20:15:16  <Ammler> [20:53] <Eddi|zuHause> · <- i have a better point <-- don't have this point :-(
20:15:54  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: do you use a mac keyboard?
20:16:22  <dihedral> what difference would that make?
20:16:42  <Ammler> maybe that one has such a "better point" :-)
20:17:01  <dihedral> does not do anything other than unicode :-P
20:17:27  <planetmaker> dihedral: wanna be client no 22? You've got the chance with yesterday's nightly :)
20:17:41  <Ammler> you mean soemthing like alt+<number>?
20:17:54  <dihedral> \u0000
20:19:47  <dihedral> planetmaker, dont have the grf's ;-)
20:20:03  <planetmaker> you know how to get them :)
20:22:38  <dihedral> yes,
20:22:39  <dihedral> svn up
20:22:40  <dihedral> :-D
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20:23:19  <gynter> hello, is it possible to destroy an industry in network game when server is running as dedicated?
20:23:25  <gynter> openttd0.6.3
20:23:28  <dihedral> nope
20:23:34  <dihedral> unless the map has a chat enabled
20:23:51  * planetmaker donates an "e"
20:23:57  <gynter> and not possible to enable cheat runtime?
20:24:02  <planetmaker> no
20:24:03  * Roest1 grabs the e
20:24:05  <gynter> darn
20:24:07  <dihedral> thanks pm
20:24:10  <gynter> k, thanks
20:24:17  <planetmaker> :) you're welcome
20:24:31  *** Roest1 is now known as Roest
20:24:36  <dihedral> why on earth would you want to delete an indu?
20:24:46  <Roest> because it's in the way?
20:24:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas_nomade has a "chat" ;)
20:25:00  <dihedral> Roest, no such thing :-P
20:25:51  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: it's a "chatte" :)
20:25:57  <dihedral> that'd be something for the 'i want realism in the game' users: oh - the indu is in my way, lets shift it 2 tails to the south
20:26:09  <dihedral> glx, IT's ?
20:26:09  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: close enough ;)
20:26:11  <gynter> dihedral, 64x64 map and some unneeded industries :P
20:26:23  <dihedral> then just wait for it to die
20:26:36  <gynter> takes too long :)
20:26:42  <dihedral> patience is a virtue
20:26:50  <Ammler> gynter: just enable chat mode in local and transfer to server
20:26:55  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: why not "it"? i would say it like that in german, too
20:26:56  <energetic> realism is a virtue too
20:27:20  <Ammler> *cheat
20:27:31  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, because german and english differ?
20:27:33  <dihedral> :-P
20:27:35  <dihedral> just slightly
20:27:49  <gynter> in real world with money you can close down industries you don't like :)
20:28:00  <gynter> just buy em
20:28:07  <dihedral> dschust zat vee smaaal bit
20:28:12  <Eddi|zuHause> english is a simplified german with a tad of french vocabulary
20:28:23  <dihedral> ouch
20:28:41  <planetmaker> lol
20:29:22  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that covers most of the english language really well...
20:29:31  <Bjarni> <dihedral> what difference would that make? <-- basically mac keyboards has lots of interesting keys, like  µ and ·
20:29:44  <Bjarni> I really like  :D
20:29:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that first one does not display
20:29:53  <Bjarni> :s
20:30:23  <Bjarni> then you need more than just a decent keyboard :P
20:30:28  <Bjarni> ...
20:30:35  <Bjarni> google failed to find it too
20:30:56  <Eddi|zuHause> and all german keyboards had µ as long as i can think back
20:31:32  <Eddi|zuHause> on AltGr+M
20:31:41  <dihedral> [21:30]  <Bjarni> I really like  :D <- yes here too, but also like √
20:32:00  <dihedral> [ ] interested [√] not interested <- :-P
20:32:08  <Bjarni> nice one
20:32:41  <Eddi|zuHause> technically, that's supposed to be a "square root" symbol :p
20:32:46  <glx> µ is shifg+*
20:33:19  <Eddi|zuHause> shift+* is not possible, because * is already shift++ (:p)
20:33:19  <gynter> Ammler, what you mean? Do I have to restart server then?
20:33:32  <Ammler> no, just reload
20:33:33  <Bjarni> <-- LOL, Klingon unicode :D
20:33:58  <Ammler> gynter: !rcon load <uploadedsave>
20:34:18  <Prof_Frink> dihedral: ?
20:34:21  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: we are still waiting for your klingon translation
20:34:59  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> that first one does not display <-- It's the first char in this line
20:35:06  <dihedral> Ammler, i doubt he's using ap+
20:35:28  <dihedral> Prof_Frink, ?
20:36:19  <Prof_Frink> Giving you a proper tick
20:36:45  * petern wonders if the server he just lennyised will come back up
20:37:00  <petern> ooh
20:37:06  <petern> it took 2 minutes to start pinging...
20:38:12  <petern> oh right, it has a hardware RAID 5... that'll do it
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20:49:20  <Eddi|zuHause> # the tree, that wanted to be a beautiful book
20:49:30  <Eddi|zuHause> # it would die, if that's what it took
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20:50:57  <Eddi|zuHause> # in the shades of the woods
20:51:23  <Eddi|zuHause> # sat a bear who dreamed of being a poet's coat
20:53:20  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:58:43  <Sacro> Did someone fiddle with tables.h?
20:59:14  <Sacro> my housemate has a town called Cuntfingford
20:59:52  <Sacro> I thought Cunt* was blocked?
20:59:58  <petern> tables.h, eh?
21:00:33  <Sacro> errm, whereever it iwas
21:00:38  <Sacro> not looked in the source
21:00:44  <Sacro> i recall there being a table of banned prefixes
21:02:19  <petern> well it should be replaced if it's from the english or additional english town names
21:02:53  <Sacro> It seems not
21:03:10  <Sacro> 0.7.0 beta 1
21:03:14  <Sacro> win32 installer
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21:08:31  <petern> mmm, threaded perl scripts
21:08:41  <petern> well the code is in there to do the replacement, so it should
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21:09:08  <Sacro> well it didn't work :p
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21:11:32  <petern> oh
21:11:40  <petern> and that code hasn't been touched since r1608
21:11:46  <Sacro> hehe
21:11:55  <Sacro> well he got Cuntfingford
21:12:00  <Sacro> we chortled
21:16:44  <Bjarni> somebody made a bugreport about this and then MYOB said "well that explains Cunttown" when ludde worked on a fix
21:17:20  <Bjarni> ludde added some sort of filter but it looks like profanity filters fails big time in Hull :P
21:17:29  <Sacro> Yeah
21:17:32  <Sacro> talking of fail
21:17:37  <Sacro> nice to see you again Bjarni
21:17:48  <Bjarni> o_O
21:17:53  <Bjarni> fail...
21:18:01  <Bjarni> I passed the exams
21:18:24  <Bjarni> in fact I got an email last week telling me that I also passed the last exam :)
21:20:52  <el_en> Hull is a profanity?
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21:25:19  <Bjarni> I guess it could be considered a profanity
21:25:24  <Prof_Frink> el_en: Yes. But there's no H.
21:26:06  <Eddi|zuHause> so they can't bend it?
21:27:08  * el_en booted to Open Firmware for the first time today
21:27:39  <petern> did you feel special?
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21:30:55  <el_en> yeah. half of the world's population has never used a phone, but even fewer have ever booted to Open Firmware.
21:31:01  <Bjarni> petern: that's a silly question. We already learned that el_en is a "special" person
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21:32:50  <Eddi|zuHause> you meant to say "special needs" :P
21:34:24  <Bjarni> no... I meant "special" in the nice way. It's a nice way to refer to a person with a certain brain capacity
21:34:33  <Bjarni> Forrest Gump is "special" ;)
21:40:25  <Wolf01> 'night
21:40:29  <el_en> night
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21:43:26  <el_en> Eddi|zuHause: is that supposed to be an insult?
21:43:51  <Eddi|zuHause> no.
21:43:54  <el_en> good.
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21:49:46  <worldemar> el_en: half of the world's population has never used a phone... really?
21:49:59  * worldemar can't believe that
21:50:23  * KingJ can't beleive that worldemar can't beleive it
21:51:02  <worldemar> of course i can, but _half_!
21:52:14  * worldemar feelss "special" having cellphone
21:52:24  <worldemar> s/ss/s
21:52:29  <worldemar> s/ss/s/
21:52:32  <worldemar> >_<
21:54:54  <Bjarni> cellphone?
21:55:05  <Bjarni> are you supposed to have such a gadget?
21:56:47  <worldemar> maybe my english is crappy... but how i should call this small thing if i can make a "call" with it to any other person with similar one?
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21:57:48  <planetmaker> mobile?
21:58:26  <Prof_Frink> cocoa tins and some string?
21:58:37  <worldemar> what differs mobile from cellphone?
21:59:15  <dihedral> one is AE, the other is BE (wrt cellphone and mobile)
21:59:46  <worldemar> o, yeah... cool...
21:59:59  <worldemar> and what is AE and BE?
22:00:07  <dihedral> American English, British English
22:00:13  <Prof_Frink> Merkin English and English English.
22:00:42  <el_en> worldemar:
22:01:01  <worldemar> google...
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22:05:09  <worldemar> Bjarni: okay, now i know i have such gadget)
22:05:46  <worldemar> cellphone or mobile or cellmobile or...
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22:09:30  <Bjarni>  <Prof_Frink> Merkin English and English English. <-- I thought it was corrupted English and real English :/
22:10:22  <dihedral> whatever the americans did with it, it's not worthy being called 'english' nomore
22:11:22  * worldemar is being corrupted :(
22:11:35  <FauxFaux> You mean "American" and "English", right?
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22:12:43  <dihedral> Americans should not be allowed to use the name of that language for their own language
22:13:27  <dihedral> and americans are not native english speakers
22:13:35  <dihedral> they only thing they are native in is idiocy
22:14:08  <el_en> maybe that's why the language in TTD was named American.
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22:52:26  *** arex\ [arex_@] has joined #openttd
22:52:32  <arex\> How can I change start capital?
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23:00:05  <Ammler> arex\: ctrl+alt+c
23:00:24  <Ammler> or with difficult settings
23:00:27  <arex\> Almost tried it
23:00:36  <Ammler> :-)
23:00:46  <arex\> :-D
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23:17:22  <arex\> finger
23:17:33  <arex\> oh.
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23:58:34  <Morloth> Hi everyone :)
23:58:58  <SmatZ> hello :)
23:59:05  <Morloth> d0h :P
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