Log for #openttd on 13th March 2009:
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00:00:43  <goodger> [wito]: then extent the lake out a bit while raising your little mountain of insanity
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00:05:44  <[wito]> I decided to go for a different look
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00:24:38  <[wito]> yay!
00:24:42  <[wito]> how utterly unneccessary!
00:24:54  <SmatZ> [wito]?
00:25:42  <[wito]> 4 mammoth trains circling a lake, in the middle of which another 15 trains are circling a HQ ziggurat
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00:30:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15696 /trunk/src/ (58 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move the NewGRF language ID into the language file instead of maintaining a table in the code.
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00:48:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15697 /trunk/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r15695): warning about comparing signed vs unsigned.
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01:02:43  <NukeBuster> you guys know of any issues with Red Hat and international fonts?
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01:07:16  <[wito]> holy hannah!
01:07:27  <[wito]> 1024^2 ^G: 250 MB o.O
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01:15:50  <NukeBuster> Ah! Finally after 3 years.... my Opera works normal again :)
01:16:11  <NukeBuster> fontconfig had some corrupted cache files.
01:19:08  <goodger> \o/
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08:54:08  <Mark__T> are the original Datafiles from TTD still needed, or is it now possible to run ottd without them
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08:56:25  <DASPRiD> afaik stil needed, tho as the ones from the ttd demo are enough, there's nothing to pay ;)
09:08:00  <petern> you can use opengfx with a blank
09:11:54  <Mark__T> and change to a newgfx then?
09:12:12  <petern> what's a newgfx?
09:13:03  <Mark__T> a new set, whatever, just starting to read about otttd
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11:53:51  <Darkvater> hmmm. got disc'd
11:54:18  <Rubidium> yeah, your pong was weak
11:54:58  * Darkvater shakes fists at his pong
11:55:00  <Darkvater> damn you!
11:55:12  <Rubidium> S. Colbert?
11:55:19  <Darkvater> ?
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11:56:10  <Rubidium> Stephen Colbert (of Comedy Central's Colbert Report) does roughly the same; he shakes his fist and shouts "damn you!" quite regularly in his show
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12:12:55  <fonsinchen> I'd like to invalidate a few temporary variables in my code when someone joins a network game, as I don't want to write saveload code for them. Is it possible to find out when someone is about to join?
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12:17:24  <fonsinchen> Too vague again? Well: I have a couple of threads doing a parallel computation of the cargo distribution. These threads all work on their own set of data and are joined with the main thread in defined intervals for copying over the results. The problem is that those threads won't be running on the newly joining instance, so I have to cancel them on all other instances. I'm wondering how to do that.
12:19:20  <fonsinchen> Or rather: how to detect the condition that a new instance is joining.
12:19:32  <Rubidium> you don't
12:21:00  <Rubidium> actually with frame_freq > 1 one can't guarantee that the "client joins" messages comes in the right tick
12:21:18  <fonsinchen> does it come in before the client joins?
12:22:03  <Rubidium> with frame freq 10 the server lets the clients run 10 ticks and sync on that moment
12:23:22  <Rubidium> if the server is slightly slower than 30ms/tick or the network is laggy a message client joined at tick #5 might reach the client at tick #6
12:24:13  <fonsinchen> That's bad luck for me. In the remaining tick one of the threads might have been joined.
12:31:10  <fonsinchen> So I'll have to pause the threads when saving, save their states and joining times and start them in those states when loading. That should work.
12:31:51  <Noldo> just don't join them before server ok's it
12:32:14  <fonsinchen> How can the server tell that?
12:32:33  <Noldo> by sending a message?
12:32:55  <fonsinchen> That was my question: Is there a message "client is about to join"?
12:33:16  <fonsinchen> And how do I receive it.
12:34:44  <Noldo> there be dragons
12:35:34  <fonsinchen> I'm not going to mess with the network code. I'll rather save the thread states.
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12:38:47  <Rubidium> you have considered that the thread must do EXACTLY the same amount of work on each client without reading ANY of the game state after setting the thread up, right?
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12:41:15  <Rubidium> ofcourse only if you value a multiplayer where you don't get desynced because you've got a dual core CPU and the server has a single core CPU or any other fancy CPU scheduling schemes
12:41:16  <fonsinchen> yes
12:41:35  <fonsinchen> I have the threads working on their own instances of graph problems
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12:41:50  <fonsinchen> Those are completely seperate from the main game data.
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12:42:11  <fonsinchen> And the starting points can easily be reconstructed and saved
12:42:17  <fonsinchen> so I'll go that way
12:42:53  <fonsinchen> (Of course we'll see a heavy lag when loading as there is a reason I do that multithreaded ...)
12:43:56  <taisteluorava> hm, is there any way you can make wagons replaced with second engine?
12:44:29  <taisteluorava> with that automatic tool
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13:26:10  <Belugas_Gone> wooow :D  lovely comics houses!
13:27:04  <pavel1269> hi
13:27:36  <pavel1269> whats difference between in patchin .... -p0/1/2 ???
13:27:53  <pavel1269> i dont get it, i just try and sometimes it work
13:28:25  <glx> it's easy, -p is used to skip parts of the path
13:28:48  <pavel1269> dont get it :-)
13:28:58  <pavel1269> what number should i use? :-)
13:29:08  <pavel1269> what does it change? why it is skipping anythinkg?
13:30:13  <glx> svn diff produce p0 diff (base dir is .)
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13:31:13  <glx> git/hg diff produce p1 diff (base dir for "source" and "dest" are different)
13:31:51  <pavel1269> so if i have ... patch starting ... diff i use -p0 ... if Index ... -p2 ?
13:32:01  <petern> no
13:33:38  <glx> you need to compare "source" and "dest" paths
13:35:11  <glx> "src/settings.cpp" and "src/settings.cpp" > p0
13:35:31  <glx> "a/src/settings.cpp" and "b/src/settings.cpp" > p1
13:35:33  <glx> ...
13:37:11  <pavel1269> oh
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13:37:20  <pavel1269> thanks glx, now got it :-)
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13:41:20  <pavel1269> also i noticed that i must use -i .... i read the help ... whats stdin?
13:42:07  <glx> "-i filename" is like "< filename"
13:42:16  <glx> it's a matter of personal preference
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13:52:29  <|Japa|> hmm... single city game is interesting at first, but ends up having a lot of waiting
13:55:21  <Belugas_Gone> so you now have a very big challenge : make the town grow even faster
13:55:39  <Belugas_Gone> or play on smaller maps
13:55:46  <Belugas_Gone> which is not easy either
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13:57:26  <energetic> Allow building road stops on road/tram tracks of competitors (r15601) --> Awesome!
13:59:44  <[wito]> |Japa|: I set up a metro line in 1920, go to bed, and start playing around 2000 when I get up next morning
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14:05:58  <|Japa|> Belugas_Gone, certainly not easier to play a smaller map, as I'd have to make a patch of ottd to support 32x32 maps
14:07:13  <petern> fuck
14:07:21  <petern> i want a beer :o
14:07:48  <Belugas_Gone> people are never satisfied :(
14:08:03  <|Japa|> I don't drink alchohol
14:08:12  <|Japa|> but I'd love a milkshake
14:08:12  <Belugas_Gone> i'll grab my moka coffee
14:08:15  <petern> sorry Belugas_Gone :(
14:08:25  <Belugas_Gone> not you petern :)
14:08:28  <petern> ohh
14:08:38  <[wito]> damn you petern!
14:08:43  <[wito]> Now you made me want a beer!
14:08:47  <Belugas_Gone> you deserve a good one onceina while, petern
14:08:57  * [wito] shakes his fist at petern
14:09:00  <[wito]> Damn you!
14:10:25  <Belugas_Gone> [wito], you may take (or deserve) a beer when you'll fix the Chi of the maps!
14:11:32  <[wito]> is that so?
14:11:48  <[wito]> If so, I'd better get right on it
14:16:37  <|Japa|> [wito], while your at it, try to get the vastu right too
14:19:26  <[wito]> |Japa|: they are kind of difficult to reconcile within one generation
14:19:36  <[wito]> but I'm thinking that if I fix one, I'll fix the other
14:21:44  <SpComb> you can have a beer if you come here and get it
14:22:53  <|Japa|>
14:22:57  <|Japa|> any ideas?
14:23:47  <petern> what sort of ideas?
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14:26:37  <Belugas_Gone> i have an idea... do not use label when it's a text that should be used instead o_O
14:27:57  <Belugas_Gone> |Japa|, i hope you do realize that 32*32 map size patch CANNOT ever be in trunk, righ?
14:28:15  <|Japa|> Belugas_Gone, twas a joke
14:29:21  <Belugas_Gone> pffffff.... got me alright
14:30:24  * Belugas_Gone throws batteries of his scarcasometer in the garbage
14:30:44  <Belugas_Gone> and put new ones in
14:30:56  <|Japa|> and.... I'm a magnate
14:33:59  <SpComb> the OpenTTD titles are kind of... arbitrary :)
14:36:27  <pavel1269> its real fun upgrading from 11814 to 15692 :-P
14:37:00  <pavel1269> !rev
14:38:33  <pavel1269> |Japa|: why play on that small maps?
14:39:25  <Belugas_Gone> what's that?  a command from coop???
14:40:09  <pavel1269> tryed to get info from last rev? :-)
14:40:16  <pavel1269> !svn
14:40:19  <Rubidium> pavel1269: glad you like the upgrading
14:40:24  <pavel1269> :-D
14:41:39  <SpComb> it's not like svn needs to upgrade each revision at a time
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14:55:38  <[wito]> r15697, btw. :P
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15:09:21  <pavel1269> i dont have current trunk btw?
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15:19:31  <[wito]> oh!
15:19:37  <dihedral> \o/
15:19:42  <[wito]> I have an idea for advanced tunnel construction, btw
15:19:51  <pavel1269> hi dihedral
15:19:52  <[wito]> that makes the idea, on the whole, plausible
15:20:02  <[wito]> (stuff like stations, signals in tunnels
15:20:07  <dihedral> code wise or just in your head?
15:20:26  <[wito]> just in my head, for now. :P
15:20:55  <[wito]> but let me ax you this: How were the tunnel stations in NYC built in olden times?
15:21:14  <dihedral> definately not in openttd
15:21:18  <[wito]> they dug friggin holes, didn't they?
15:21:33  <dihedral> and now what do you think tunnels are in openttd?
15:21:35  <[wito]> They dug holes, built the lines, and covered the holes back up!
15:21:38  <dihedral> wormholes
15:23:00  <[wito]> point is, if a similar thing was possible in OpenTTD, it would be self-balancing
15:23:32  <[wito]> yes, you can have underground stations (with the same conncetion rules and catchement as if they were above ground) but it's going to cost you dearly
15:24:00  <dihedral> there is no 'underground'!
15:24:06  <pavel1269> lol
15:24:26  <[wito]> dihedral: there doesn't need to be
15:24:43  <[wito]> it just needs to be a building with a height on top of which you can build. :P
15:24:46  <dihedral> if you want underground stations, there needs to be "under  ground"
15:25:07  <pavel1269> [wito]: you have any patch? :-)
15:25:27  <[wito]> dihedral: but that's the beauty of it
15:25:32  <[wito]> the stations aren't underground
15:25:35  <[wito]> they are on the ground
15:25:40  <dihedral> and if that is what you are after, perhaps you can then start of with the tulles that in ttdp allow you to build on top of the entrance/exit
15:25:41  <[wito]> but you can build on top of them. :P
15:25:46  <dihedral> and get that working in openttd
15:26:10  <[wito]> dihedral: need to finish my feng-shui mapgen first. .P
15:26:28  <dihedral> well - then do that and dont think as much! :-P
15:26:37  <pavel1269> wonder, how will map with good Chi look like
15:27:11  <[wito]> pavel1269: it will look pleasant
15:27:23  <pavel1269> show :-)
15:27:40  <[wito]> well, I need to actually build a map generator first. :P
15:28:44  <dihedral> a map generator??
15:28:56  <[wito]> dihedral: A map generator
15:28:59  <dihedral> man - you really like doing things the complicated way
15:29:00  <dihedral> ^^
15:29:11  <[wito]> how do you figure?
15:30:08  <pavel1269> :-D
15:30:54  <dihedral> annoyance factor ^^
15:30:58  <[wito]> :P
15:31:13  <[wito]> Actually, Yexo has provided a patch for writing mapgens in squirrel
15:36:08  <|Japa|> I still want good vastu in it :p
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16:46:45  <Kennie_> Hey.. Could somebody tell my how to create/use MU-wagons in OpenTTD with cc2/Why holding ctrl while clicking "build vehicle" doesn't make a wagon, and only trains?
16:48:47  <Kennie_> I'm using the latest beta, btw
16:48:58  <glx> build and drag
16:49:16  <petern> you just have to select the MU carriage
16:49:45  <Kennie_> um.. the only thing in the list are the engines, none of the wagons fit..
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16:50:17  <Kennie_> with any of the wagons in cc2 I only get that I should use a MU-wagon instead
16:50:29  <petern> it's quite well hidden iirc
16:50:37  <petern> but it should be there
16:50:50  <Kennie_> Couldn't find anything on google or the forum either..
16:50:56  <glx> anyway you can build another engine and move it behind the first one
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16:51:12  <DJNekkid> hi all :)
16:51:20  <petern> keywords, eh?
16:51:36  <glx> cc2 will fail ;)
16:52:32  <Kennie_> well I got that much.. but most of the engines there don't take cargo.. I tried that :/
16:54:54  <[wito]> Kennie_: MU trains (DMU/EMU) usually only take passengers (and sometimes mail)
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16:55:20  <[wito]> they usually aren't refittable, and usually are designed to be run as metro lines
16:55:30  <[wito]> (start/stop fast, load fast, move slow)
16:56:31  <Kennie_> hmm..
16:57:54  <Kennie_> hey, now there's one
16:58:41  <[wito]> basically, most MU trains are such that even if you could use them for freight, they'd give extremely poor performace
16:59:10  <petern> don't you fucking know what you are
16:59:24  <[wito]> petern: what?
16:59:28  <petern> don't you fucking know what you are
16:59:42  <[wito]> I must admit that at present I'm a bit confused, ye
17:01:48  <Kennie_> on another issue though, why is it that the range within which you can join a station seem so random; I had a case with 2 stations with 7 tiles in between on levelled ground, and yet couldn't join them until I raised the max spread to 30..
17:02:54  <Kennie_> half of the time the list is empty, and it doesn't seem to follow any logic as of when you can join a station to another and when you can't
17:04:12  <[wito]> how long were the stations?
17:04:29  <planetmaker> station spread is the maximum distance station tiles may have from eachother.
17:04:40  <planetmaker> not the distance to the closest station tile
17:05:36  <Kennie_> okay.. I think the stations were both 7 tiles long
17:05:55  <Kennie_> I tried with 12, 16 and 20
17:05:58  <[wito]> Kennie_: that would, if I understand your layout correctly, give a station spread of 21
17:06:13  <petern> maximum distance of the farthest tiles
17:06:15  <[wito]> if you have SSSSSSS_______SSSSSSS in a line
17:06:35  <DJNekkid> can anyone tell me why this dont work ... i.e. from 12 and forward doesnt it "cannot attach" -->
17:07:30  <Kennie_> okay
17:08:10  <[wito]> Kennie_: A tip: use the station drag and drop tool to see if you can connect two stations
17:08:31  <[wito]> if you cannot use it to make a rectangle that contains both locations, station spread is too low
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17:23:59  <petern> do you spit?
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17:34:03  <[wito]> petern: are you drunk?
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17:44:16  <petern> no
17:45:28  <pavel1269> i intalled boost libraries .... better just  graph and headers .... how do i inlucde ..... where to put path to .hpp files?
17:45:47  <pavel1269> 4>d:\games\openttd\trunk\src\routing_classes.h(28) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp': No such file or directory
17:45:52  <pavel1269> checked and that file is there
17:47:43  <glx> configure --cflags=-I/path/to/boost/dir
17:47:59  <pavel1269> win32 :-)
17:48:16  <glx> works on win32 too ;)
17:48:25  <pavel1269> where do i put this in MSVS? :-)
17:48:27  <glx> where is your boost dir?
17:48:48  <pavel1269> c:/program files/boost/boost_version/boost
17:49:17  <pavel1269> *boost_1_38 btw :-)
17:49:18  <glx> in msvc add c:\program files\boost\boost_version to include paths
17:49:40  <pavel1269> ahh ... i added even last dir ... :-/ stupid mistake
17:50:07  <pavel1269> works now, thanks
17:51:03  <welshdragon> argh, PBS FAIL
17:51:10  * welshdragon broke the PBS
17:51:40  <pavel1269> glx: you provided me that many advices over time, i just wonder, that you didnt get bored and you still help people :-)
17:52:28  <Belugas_Gone> because glx is one of the kindest human being i've ever encountered
17:52:48  <Belugas_Gone> unlike your humble servant, should i add...
17:53:48  <Belugas_Gone> mmh... nine inch nail at home is not like at work...  cannot crank up the same way :S
17:54:05  * pavel1269 's searching in vocabulary some words he jsut encouraged :P
17:55:53  *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry
17:56:49  <pavel1269> didnt get your last sentence :-/
17:58:25  <petern> didn't you?
17:58:52  <Belugas_Gone> #Bow Down BEfore the one you serve
17:59:04  <Belugas_Gone> #You're gonna get what you deserve
17:59:15  <Belugas_Gone> Dont' you?
17:59:17  <Belugas_Gone> Who
17:59:26  <pavel1269> petern, u peter138?
17:59:34  <Belugas_Gone> u
17:59:34  <Belugas_Gone> uu
17:59:35  <Belugas_Gone> uuu
17:59:37  <Belugas_Gone> uuuu
17:59:52  * pavel1269 is bowing to glx
18:00:34  *** Mortal [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:00:39  * pavel1269 is gonna make big U for Belugas
18:01:00  *** Mortal [] has joined #openttd
18:02:42  <pavel1269> everytime you must see "u" you must ..... "commemorate" me :-)
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18:08:40  <DJNekkid> hmm ... in .NFO ... are there a way to count the number of number of attached wagons, and adjust the TE accordingly?
18:09:15  <DJNekkid> well, i know of one way, but it requre A LOT of lines
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18:10:40  <DJNekkid> one CB36 for each occurance, but that is ... well ... not practical
18:13:43  <DJNekkid> i mean, count the number, calculate it by x, and then CB36 with the calculated number
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18:19:43  <pavel1269> hmm ... cargodest patch have 217kB .... cargodest+8patches have 196kB :-)
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18:20:12  <frosch123> DJNekkid: only engines can have a TE
18:20:48  <DJNekkid> frosch123: i know, but that TE can be adjusted by CB36
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18:21:15  <DJNekkid> but if an egnine got, lets say, 10 wagons, the TE could be adjusted (typycal for MU's)
18:21:57  <frosch123> well, I do not exactly understand the problem
18:22:35  <frosch123> what  do you mean with "one cb36 for each occurance"
18:23:07  <DJNekkid> gimme a sec, and i'll "paste" the code im trying to apply, just gotta finish it
18:24:37  <planetmaker> good evening all :)
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18:27:00  <DJNekkid>
18:27:03  <DJNekkid> there frosch123
18:27:23  <DJNekkid> that AC at the end could be pretty much anything to
18:28:59  <frosch123> and you think I can read that :)
18:29:09  <frosch123> however, are you searching for advancedvaraction2
18:29:42  <frosch123> like, do you want to return something like "min((consist length) * 10, 255)" ?
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18:30:43  <DJNekkid> i would like to count the number of wagons, multiply it by, lets say, 20, and then insert that number into the "awnser" in the CB 36
18:30:47  <petern> heh
18:30:52  <petern> do you actually code your NFO like that?
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18:31:04  <DJNekkid> -1 * 0  02 00 D8 81 00 00 FF 01 <calculated number> 80 1F 1F AC 00
18:31:38  <DJNekkid> petern: when i understand what i do, i do, if not, i split it much more up
18:31:41  <frosch123> DJNekkid: so read the "consist length variable", use advancedvaraction2 to multiply it with the constant 20, clamp it at 255, and return the computed value
18:32:09  <frosch123> have you used advanced varaction2 before?
18:32:17  <DJNekkid> nope :)
18:32:32  <frosch123> ok, i will set up an example :)
18:32:51  <planetmaker> frosch123: is a very kind person :)
18:33:26  <frosch123> just because I trust him to learn :)
18:33:34  <planetmaker> :)
18:33:39  <pavel1269> hey planet :-)
18:33:42  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: is also a very kind person :)
18:33:55  <DJNekkid> i am?
18:33:55  <planetmaker> hey pavel1269
18:34:08  <DJNekkid> i were under the impression i were a nag ;)
18:34:13  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: if you want to convince me of the opposite, you're sure free to do so :P
18:34:15  <pavel1269> sure, i have no idea, what they are talking about .... just ... graphic coding? :-)
18:34:42  <planetmaker> pavel1269: sure they are. But I like the outcome - I'm sure of it :)
18:35:06  <pavel1269> same here :-)
18:35:29  <DJNekkid> hehe
18:35:29  <planetmaker> he :)
18:35:52  <planetmaker> 2cc beta 3 or so in the pipe, DJNekkid ?
18:36:21  <DJNekkid> well, that thing there is perhaps for the dutch trainset, but however, the same thing is most likely to apply to the 2cc set as well
18:36:40  <planetmaker> ah, didn't know you were involved there, too :)
18:37:02  <DJNekkid> me either
18:37:05  <DJNekkid> :D
18:37:08  <planetmaker> :D
18:37:30  <DJNekkid> but tbh, the grapics is nice, but its features suck, and grfmaker have some severe limitations
18:37:48  <DJNekkid> so i thought i could help them, if they want it :)
18:37:56  <planetmaker> ok... and your quest is to improve it, I gather :)
18:38:11  <planetmaker> see... that's what nice people do :)
18:38:11  <pavel1269> yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty = 255 will disallow traing to turn around?
18:38:16  <planetmaker> yes, pavel1269
18:38:19  <pavel1269> ty
18:38:21  <planetmaker> err... no
18:38:33  <DJNekkid> my plan were to do one train first, and if they like my work, i could "do" the rest :)
18:38:33  <planetmaker> wrong setting name
18:38:53  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: sure it sounds like the plan usually to go for :)
18:39:11  <DJNekkid> :D
18:39:42  <DJNekkid> and when the var2's and stuff is done, it's easy to add the "good stuff"
18:39:59  <DJNekkid> that is, what grapichs to put where
18:40:02  <pavel1269> planetmaker: wait_oneway_signal = 255?
18:40:04  <DJNekkid> as well as alignments...
18:40:52  <planetmaker> pavel1269: that's one.
18:40:57  <pavel1269> :-)
18:40:59  <pavel1269> thanks
18:41:01  <planetmaker> should be wait_pbs_signal or so
18:41:03  <frosch123> DJNekkid: <- untested of course, so beware of syntax errors
18:41:35  <frosch123> I never know, when to put spaces or no spaces in the escape sequences :)
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18:42:30  <DJNekkid> so ... i would add <blabla> 80 1F 1F
18:42:36  <DJNekkid> if u get my drift
18:42:42  <pavel1269> anyidea why i cant setup dolar to show up? ... i set it ok ... exit, start and again pounds
18:42:46  <petern> YOU!
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18:43:09  <petern> pavel1269: did you set it in game or at the start menu?
18:43:13  <pavel1269> both
18:43:45  <pavel1269> just trye d...... start,set,exit .... start,set,new game, exit .... and all possible ways
18:44:17  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
18:44:30  <Wolf01> hello
18:44:32  <pavel1269> hi
18:44:33  <Rubidium> try making it possible for OpenTTD to write to the config file
18:44:51  <pavel1269> okay
18:45:36  <pavel1269> O_o no setting saved
18:45:44  <pavel1269> gonna delete config
18:46:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15698 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
18:46:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-13 18:45:47
18:46:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changed by Excel20 (1)
18:46:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 1 fixed by WhiteRabbit (1)
18:46:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 fixed by jpx_ (1)
18:46:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 1 fixed, 3 changed by planetmaker (4)
18:46:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 1 fixed by lorenzodv (1)
18:46:40  <pavel1269> now just .... start,set,exit and it work .... some baaad values in config thought
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18:56:19  <pavel1269> :-O where does OpenTTD save setting now? he wont create openttd.cfg now :/
18:56:37  <planetmaker> different directory?
18:57:03  <pavel1269> i have no other OTTD in my pc
18:57:11  <Rubidium> I suggest you to not read the readme. I also suggest to not search for openttd.cfg in said readme.
18:57:14  <planetmaker> have a look at the readme
18:57:20  <planetmaker> :)
18:57:28  <pavel1269> hmm
18:57:46  <pavel1269> things changed till 11814 :-)
18:58:05  <pavel1269> problem ... no readme :-D .... gonna serach somewhere in sources
18:58:41  <DJNekkid> hmm ... didnt work too well ...
18:58:52  <Rubidium> hmm... how old is that version? At least since 0.1.4 there has been a readme
18:58:57  <DJNekkid> tho, that may be my fault as well :)
18:59:13  <Rubidium> you didn't try finding the readme with windows search did you?
18:59:24  <pavel1269> no i found it :D
18:59:49  <pavel1269> its directly in sources ...
19:01:03  <Alberth> pavel1269: also don't try finding the openttd.cfg file at your file system
19:01:07  <pavel1269> so found openttd.cfg ... but game wont change it .... :-/
19:01:27  <pavel1269> Alberth: so at yours? :-)
19:01:41  *** Mucht [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:01:46  <Alberth> pavel1269: I know where it is :)
19:01:53  <pavel1269> i know too :-)
19:02:02  <OsteHovel^EEE> Im thinking of the process of compiling a crosscompiler to target i686-pc-linux-gnu at a i686-pc-cygwin.. yesterday i buildet one that targeted i586-mingw32 and then i used mingw-headers and w32api to get libs and includes but what is the name of the packages for linux?
19:02:05  <pavel1269> but looks like ottd dont know it
19:03:29  <Rubidium> libc(-dev)?
19:03:38  <OsteHovel^EEE> ok
19:03:49  <Rubidium> just a wild guess though
19:03:55  <OsteHovel^EEE> Thanks Rubidium
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19:06:23  <pavel1269> contain default values or what? ...
19:06:46  <pavel1269> till i can change anythink and it wont remember
19:07:07  <pavel1269> and not in openttd.cfg not even
19:07:37  <Rubidium> is where openttd writes the config to before renaming that file to openttd.cfg (and thus trashing the config)
19:08:01  <Rubidium> this to prevent truncation of the config file if your OS or openttd crashes while saving
19:08:39  <Rubidium> hmm... you aren't using any fancy characters in the path where openttd.cfg is, right?
19:09:16  <pavel1269> no
19:09:47  <Rubidium> what's the path where openttd.cfg is?
19:09:55  <Rubidium> or rather where is
19:09:56  <pavel1269> d:\Games\OpenTTD\zkompilovane\zkompilovane\openttd.cfg
19:10:10  <pavel1269> the one in document and setting deleted for sure :-P
19:10:32  <Rubidium> then I've got no clue, maybe glx has one
19:10:43  <Rubidium> but I reckon Windows is doing something unexcepted
19:11:54  <pavel1269> the is rewriten (modified 20:11) and openttd.cfg remain unchanged (20:07)
19:12:15  <petern> unexcepted :D
19:12:31  <pavel1269> :-)
19:12:54  <pavel1269> and is same as ..... as excepted :-)
19:13:00  <Rubidium> there is no dog ;)
19:13:33  * petern munches on (oven cooked) chinese
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19:19:38  <pavel1269> hahaha found way to setup .... delete all config start .... SETUP ALL ... quit and it IS stored :-)
19:20:35  <pavel1269> if i would find error, i would start playing other game :-)
19:22:28  <energetic> Adding a setting means simply adding a field in the Settings struct?
19:23:55  <pavel1269> then add where to show it in settings_gui.cpp and define .... it ... in settings.cpp
19:24:27  <pavel1269> but .... rely on what you mean
19:25:25  <planetmaker> energetic: yes. But you need to change three places
19:25:33  <planetmaker> or files
19:25:36  <planetmaker> settings*
19:25:54  <planetmaker> if you want them accessible via gui that is
19:27:37  <taisteluorava> Survivor S18E05 Youre Going to Want that Tooth HDTV XviD-FQM
19:27:50  <taisteluorava> jeah, rakastan tÀtÀ hd aikakautta
19:28:08  <Belugas_Gone> WHAT?
19:28:16  <Belugas_Gone> don't say that again! it's OBSCENE
19:28:28  <taisteluorava> ups, wrong channel ^^
19:28:30  <taisteluorava> sry
19:28:56  <Belugas_Gone> WHAT? DON'T SAY THAT AGAIN!  It's an abbreviation!!
19:30:51  <davis`> >:O
19:32:33  <energetic> thanks
19:33:38  <insulfrog> gotta go
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19:51:34  <pavel1269> anyone any idea about my openttd.cfg problem?
19:52:05  <Rubidium> yeah: Windows is fracking up
19:52:33  <pavel1269> i already know that
19:52:36  <pavel1269> but solution
19:52:49  <pavel1269> where is no linux or penguin
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19:54:15  <Rubidium> solaris, bsd, morphos?
19:55:06  <pavel1269> so, you just threw up win development or what? :-)
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19:56:16  <Rubidium> yes
19:56:46  <pavel1269> :-O
19:57:50  <pavel1269> comeon, its good system, you just must take care of it, like its pet or somethink ... sometimes you must go to doctor with it (format), but its okay
19:58:35  <Rubidium> why should I care about an OS I do not use and where there're plenty of others that do care?
19:59:20  <davis`> D=
20:00:28  <pavel1269> because ... because .... jsut because :-P
20:00:55  <Belugas_Gone> and because others do not have yur problem on windows?
20:01:38  <Belugas_Gone> oops...
20:01:40  <Belugas_Gone> your
20:01:59  <Darkvater> :)
20:02:12  <pavel1269> oh ... :-/
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20:02:27  <pavel1269> may any patch fuck it up? :( ...
20:02:55  <pavel1269> or, can i debugg somehow where is the problem?
20:03:02  <Darkvater> pompom
20:03:02  <Darkvater> gdb
20:04:58  <pavel1269> gonna wait for glx, he have always ideas :-/
20:05:58  <Belugas_Gone> lol
20:06:36  <Belugas_Gone> pavel1269: one very good solution is to OR use a nightly to test OR build a clean trunk
20:06:49  <Belugas_Gone> with patches, you never know
20:06:51  *** Mortal [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:07:12  <pavel1269> those patches except one i use till 94xx
20:07:15  *** Mortal [] has joined #openttd
20:07:29  <pavel1269> and problem just now
20:07:40  <pavel1269> the one is cargodest :-)
20:08:33  <Darkvater> pavel1269, your name is irritating
20:08:41  <Darkvater> I always thing it's petern who's talking
20:09:07  <pavel1269> why irritating? :-/
20:09:15  <Darkvater> 21:08 <@Darkvater> I always thing it's petern who's talking
20:09:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15699 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: split Cmd* from vehicle.cpp to vehicle_cmd.cpp.
20:10:36  <pavel1269> Darkvater: so look at second char ... of A its me, if E its petern :-P
20:10:48  <Darkvater> it still is :)
20:10:54  <Darkvater> a p is a p
20:11:36  <pavel1269> come on .... so if planetmaker will talk, you will also think, its petern? :-)
20:11:46  <Darkvater> no, his name is too long
20:12:03  <pavel1269> and petern is too short :-)
20:12:13  <Darkvater> no, it's close enough
20:12:23  <planetmaker> :)
20:12:25  <pavel1269> you blind or somethink? :-D
20:12:34  <pavel1269> i am more close to plant than pete
20:12:37  <pavel1269> :-)
20:12:42  <planetmaker> I'm sure, Darkvater does some think :)
20:12:46  <Darkvater> peter1138 is about the same length as pavel1269
20:12:58  <Darkvater> I don't care about planet
20:13:03  <planetmaker> :(
20:13:06  <pavel1269> :D
20:13:11  <Darkvater> that's a good thing planetmaker :)
20:13:18  <planetmaker> :D
20:13:22  <pavel1269> :D
20:13:24  <Darkvater> cause I'm not caring positively about pavel1269 right now
20:13:41  <pavel1269> thats because of that numbers? :-)
20:13:42  <Rubidium> Darkvater: /ignore pavel1269 solves your issue
20:13:49  <pavel1269> :(
20:13:58  <Darkvater> I'm an advocate of free speech!
20:14:07  * Darkvater would just rather kick him
20:14:14  <Darkvater> ^_^'
20:14:40  <MrFrans> hehehe
20:14:41  <planetmaker> :P
20:14:47  <Darkvater> and MrFrans too
20:14:51  <MrFrans> :O
20:14:53  <MrFrans> Nos!
20:15:01  <Rubidium> Darkvater: kicking would undermine his free speech as you make it impossible for him to talk. Ignoring him on the other hand it in line with free speech as he can still talk, you just don't hear it.
20:15:14  <Darkvater> :)
20:15:35  <planetmaker> he speaketh the truth me thinks
20:16:57  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
20:20:23  <Darkvater> hmm, what would you translate "wedstrijdleiding" to in english?
20:20:35  <pavel1269> good to know, that even in clear trunk, its brokne for me
20:21:06  <pavel1269> wet street dancing? :-)
20:21:13  <Darkvater> ..
20:22:05  <Belugas_Gone> [16:13] <@Darkvater> I'm an advocate of free speech!   <---  well ... i read "french peech"
20:22:15  * Belugas_Gone cleans his glasses
20:22:37  <Belugas_Gone> and pour some beer on it
20:22:38  <Darkvater> we now you're canadian Belugas_Gone :)
20:22:40  <Rubidium> Darkvater: depends on the context
20:22:44  <Darkvater> tennis
20:22:48  <Belugas_Gone> penis
20:22:53  <Darkvater> immature
20:22:57  <Belugas_Gone> rapture
20:23:07  *** Belugas_Gone was kicked from #openttd by Darkvater [kick]
20:23:18  <Darkvater> what, no witty answer? ;)
20:23:38  <pavel1269> if hes owned, he can kick you remotely right? :-)
20:23:51  <Rubidium> "guy in the high chair that occasionally gets molested by a player"
20:23:52  <pavel1269> *if hes in owner list
20:24:03  <Darkvater> Rubidium: no, that's arbiter
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20:24:12  <Darkvater> more like organiser or something
20:24:15  <Belugas_Gone> ooops...
20:24:23  <Darkvater> lost your beer :)
20:24:39  <Belugas_Gone> i didnot even realized Barkvater kicked me...
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20:24:47  <Darkvater> :)
20:24:51  <Belugas_Gone> i was ... elsewhere speaking SERIOUSLY
20:24:56  <pavel1269> :-D
20:25:58  <Rubidium> Darkvater: isn't that the umpire?
20:26:13  <Darkvater> yes, that too, but I'm not looking for that :)
20:26:14  <Rubidium> chair umpire that is
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20:26:50  <Rubidium> "Committee of Management"
20:27:00  <Darkvater> heeh
20:27:06  <Darkvater> that's close, I'll use that
20:27:36  <Rubidium> "Order of Play Sub-Committee"
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20:28:22  <Rubidium> <- pick any mentioned there I'd say
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20:29:31  <Belugas> works
20:29:32  <Belugas> good
20:29:43  <welshdragon> hehe
20:30:12  <Darkvater> thx Rubidium
20:31:21  <pavel1269> its simply command :P
20:32:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15700 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: split Cmd* from signs.cpp to signs_cmd.cpp.
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20:57:18  <pavel1269> does topics from OTTD development erase after like 2years? or somewhwere is archive
20:59:51  <Rubidium> talking about the forum?
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21:00:23  <pavel1269> yeah
21:00:45  <Rubidium> nothing gets removed from there
21:00:50  <Rubidium> unless it's spam or illegal
21:01:01  <pavel1269> hmm, gonna search harder
21:01:31  <Rubidium> what are you looking for?
21:02:22  <pavel1269> i was searching with keyword and that, i posted there .... i just forget, that i used that patch but never posted a reply there ... :-/ .... found
21:02:33  <pavel1269> stupid mistake
21:02:51  <pavel1269> btw ... i "updated" to 15 500" and that openttd.cfg still wont update
21:03:16  <pavel1269> but i am changing setting in start screen, do i have to change it ingame?
21:03:17  <OsteHovel^EEE> are the openttd.cfg write-protected?
21:03:42  <pavel1269> no
21:04:05  <pavel1269> if you mean "read only" :-)
21:04:16  <Rubidium> that should be the right way to do it
21:04:18  <pavel1269> but that will have to do openttd on its own ...
21:04:41  <pavel1269> what? if i will set read only, it will work?
21:04:46  <OsteHovel^EEE> nope
21:05:08  <OsteHovel^EEE> if its read only then you cant write to it:P
21:05:15  <Rubidium> do you by a chance have a recent incarnation of Windows?
21:05:17  <OsteHovel^EEE> are you using the newest SVN?
21:05:24  <Rubidium> i.e. not that one from 2002
21:05:41  <Rubidium> uhm... 2001 I mean
21:06:03  <OsteHovel^EEE> (Im using Windows XP)
21:06:10  <pavel1269> oste: you mean revision? tryed 15692 and now trying 15 500 :-)
21:06:14  <pavel1269> Rubidium: maybye? :-)
21:06:33  <Rubidium> XP is from 2001
21:06:43  <OsteHovel^EEE> :p
21:06:45  <OsteHovel^EEE> true
21:07:23  <pavel1269> where can i check if i have "correct win" ? :-)
21:07:39  <Rubidium> do a reboot
21:07:54  <pavel1269> MS win XP version 2002 SP 3
21:07:56  <Rubidium> then it'll tell what windows it's starting
21:08:15  <pavel1269> XP :-)
21:08:38  <pavel1269> just ask ... but use common expresions :-)
21:09:14  * Rubidium wonders whether that version (=SP3) of XP also has that Vista annoyance of not being able to write to files in %programfiles%
21:09:45  <pavel1269> i dont have openttd folder in program files
21:10:44  <Rubidium> r15500 also doesn't save?
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21:11:34  <pavel1269> y
21:12:01  <pavel1269> try even older?
21:12:12  <pavel1269> like 14500 :-P
21:13:36  <Rubidium> if r15500 doesn't work then I've got absolutely no clue
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21:14:03  <pavel1269> can i debug somehow where is the problem?
21:14:40  <OsteHovel^EEE> Try this one: (please scan the .exe for virus before using... Its built on a Linux machine and is now hosted on a linux machine so it shoud not have any viruses, but just to be on the safe site) (SHA1: 1f82ccb883cd863ece487feb0e61adf30c81a4f9)
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21:15:45  <Rubidium> pavel1269: technically you should be able to debug it, but I can't help you
21:16:18  <pavel1269> OsteHovel^EEE: if it is build on linux, how can i run it?
21:16:39  <pavel1269> Rubidium: eh .... why so? ...
21:17:03  <OsteHovel^EEE> pavel1269: its build on Linux to target Windows:p
21:17:22  <OsteHovel^EEE> so its a .exe files inside the zip file... you can do something called "cross-compile" then you build a program for another platform...
21:17:54  <OsteHovel^EEE> (i use 45 secounds to build openttd)
21:18:22  <OsteHovel^EEE> hmm
21:18:33  <Rubidium> pavel1269: because the last Windows I've worked with is 2000 (University) and the last Windows I've developed on was NT4.
21:19:17  <pavel1269> hmm
21:19:21  <Rubidium> I basically haven't worked with Windows for well... this decade
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21:22:43  <OsteHovel^EEE> hmm
21:23:06  <OsteHovel^EEE> if i have "touch openttd.cfg" in the same dir as openttd.exe when i start and then exit openttd i get the file
21:23:06  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
21:24:21  <pavel1269> OsteHovel^EEE: same error as with my build
21:24:23  <pavel1269> *builds
21:24:37  <energetic> have today submitted patches any chance in getting 07?
21:24:54  <OsteHovel^EEE> but its saves in my documents if i dont  have openttd.cfg in same dir as the ..exe file (as normaly but there i dosent get the *.new file :P )
21:25:07  <OsteHovel^EEE> (im compiling r15000)
21:25:22  <pavel1269> lol i have all time after one run .new .... ottd cant delete him?
21:26:35  <OsteHovel^EEE> hmm
21:26:42  <OsteHovel^EEE> its working in Revision R14999 :P
21:26:43  <Zuu> energetic: Really depends on what it is. Is it a one-liner, then maybe. If it is something fancy new stuff then, chance is lower. But so far the 0.7.0 branch has not been created.
21:26:50  <Rubidium> as I said: rename fails on Windows
21:28:39  <pavel1269> only rename ... the new setting isnt stored even in .new file
21:29:10  <OsteHovel^EEE> In my openttd the .new file is about 8kb big...
21:29:26  <pavel1269> in my eyes, it create file ... okay ... write ... okay .... but when ... create .. no, already exist, fail and return?
21:29:47  <Belugas_Gone> OsteHovel^EEE, pavel1269, have you checked if there is anything strange in the .new file?
21:30:03  <Belugas_Gone> i mean checking it all
21:30:08  <Belugas_Gone> from top to bottom
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21:30:14  <OsteHovel^EEE> Belugas_Gone: i will try it now
21:30:19  <Belugas_Gone> scrutinized with GREAT care
21:30:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15701 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#2595]: Blame NewGRFs returning inconsistent information in purchase-list/after building before users have a chance to blame OpenTTD for incorrectly autorenewing/-replacing.
21:32:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15702 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp network/network_content_gui.cpp): -Feature(tte): direct content download 'links' in the play scenario/heightmap windows.
21:33:00  <pavel1269> 1 difference ..... in .new ... graphicsset = "", videodriver = "", musicdriver = "", sounddriver = "", blitter = "" .... in .cfg .... graphicsset = , videodriver = , musicdriver = , sounddriver = , blitter =
21:34:40  <OsteHovel^EEE> hmm
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21:35:02  <pavel1269> same OsteHovel^EEE?
21:35:26  <OsteHovel^EEE> nope
21:35:42  <OsteHovel^EEE> i have a 0 byte openttd.cfg becouse i just make one using "touch openttd.cfg"
21:36:36  <pavel1269> hehe, sure, if i create file openttd.cfg on my own and leave it empy, it is still empty :-)
21:36:47  <OsteHovel^EEE> but the i full of info (Url:
21:37:11  <pavel1269> good, same here
21:37:29  <OsteHovel^EEE> (im gonna test in wine)
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21:39:53  <OsteHovel^EEE> Exactly same behaviur in wine too...
21:40:35  <pavel1269> so, no prob in win?
21:41:01  <OsteHovel^EEE> (Wine = A way to run windows exe files under linux)
21:41:11  <pavel1269> :-)
21:41:17  <energetic> Zuu:tnx
21:41:41  <Zuu> energetic: no problems
21:41:50  <Rubidium> something working in wine and not working in Windows means wine isn't bug-for-bug compatible with Windows
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21:42:01  <OsteHovel^EEE> (true)
21:42:19  <pavel1269> OsteHovel^EEE: it is or it isnt working for you?
21:42:43  <Rubidium> hmm... do you remember that great review about how bad wine was w.r.t. running viri?
21:42:46  <OsteHovel^EEE> Under wine: you get the" target="_blank"> file | under windows xp: you get the" target="_blank"> file
21:42:46  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
21:43:11  <pavel1269> i mean, can u change setting and ... will it save?
21:43:14  <OsteHovel^EEE> Rubidium: i dont...
21:43:22  <OsteHovel^EEE> pavel1269: 2 sec i will test
21:43:31  <OsteHovel^EEE> the openttd.cfg Do not change
21:43:44  <pavel1269> good, NOT alone ... and NOT win user ... :-)
21:44:29  <pavel1269> interesting, that the bug survived over 150revs?
21:44:41  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
21:44:44  <pavel1269> but we might have a bug ^^
21:44:57  <OsteHovel^EEE> the bug only is there if you want your openttd.cfg in the same folder as openttd.exe
21:45:04  <Rubidium> well... the remains can't be a bug that survived 150 revs
21:45:19  <Wolf01> 'night
21:45:20  <pavel1269> i dont care if it remains or not
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21:45:25  <pavel1269> i want to change settings
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21:45:52  <pavel1269> OsteHovel^EEE: gonna try
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21:46:42  <pavel1269> for me, dont even work when its in documents and setting
21:47:03  <Rubidium> how paradoxical... shouting when you've got a headache
21:47:40  <pavel1269> if i shout, i am sorry? :-P
21:47:40  <OsteHovel^EEE> hmm
21:47:56  <OsteHovel^EEE> openttd can save the first time i use it..
21:48:04  <pavel1269> ye, same here :-)
21:48:08  <OsteHovel^EEE> the secound time it just make the in my documents
21:48:08  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
21:48:37  <OsteHovel^EEE> Where is the openttd.cfg are been saved in the soruce code of openttd?
21:48:49  <pavel1269> search? :-P
21:49:09  <OsteHovel^EEE> ..
21:49:15  <OsteHovel^EEE> easier said than done
21:49:21  * pavel1269 searching
21:49:26  <Zuu> Is this a bug in last nightly affecting all windows users or is it only a corner case bug?
21:49:37  <OsteHovel^EEE> we are not sure yet...
21:49:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r15703 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: split Cmd* from waypoint.cpp to waypoint_cmd.cpp.
21:50:11  <yorick> I noticed it too
21:51:06  <pavel1269> Zuu, for sure, not just last :-)
21:51:31  <pavel1269> OsteHovel^EEE: sth is in fileio.cpp
21:51:39  <OsteHovel^EEE> ok
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21:55:34  <Zuu> bug is present here on last nightly too (WinXP)
21:55:55  <pavel1269> the bug is present even on 15500 :-) .... gonna serach more deeper
21:55:57  <OsteHovel^EEE> ini.cpp | Line: 270
21:56:07  <OsteHovel^EEE> its not there in R14999
21:56:07  <OsteHovel^EEE> :p
22:02:27  <Zuu>  newname
22:02:27  <Zuu>     C string containing the new name for the file. This shall not be the name of an existing file; if it is, the behavior to be expected depends on the running environment, which may either be failure or overriding.
22:02:40  <Zuu> (newname argument to rename function)
22:03:10  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
22:04:05  <Zuu> so either the old file has to be ranamed to .old, before the new lose .new, or a move/copy function need to be found in some available API.
22:04:25  <Zuu> which could include using a posisble shell command.
22:05:45  <Zuu> As I can see, only rename and remove are functions for managing files available in stdio
22:06:17  <pavel1269> so remove openttd.cfg .... new one? and remove .new? :-)
22:06:45  <OsteHovel^EEE> 1.. save" target="_blank"> 2. delete openttd.cfg 3. rename" target="_blank"> to openttd.cfg
22:06:56  <pavel1269> y
22:06:57  <Zuu> I'd say rename openttd.cfg to openttd.cfg.old" target="_blank">openttd.cfg.old; rename to openttd.cfg; remove openttd.cfg.old" target="_blank">openttd.cfg.old
22:07:06  <pavel1269> same :-)
22:07:08  <Zuu> so there can't be loss of data in case of a crash.
22:07:10  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
22:07:29  <Zuu> :)
22:07:58  <pavel1269> incase of crash well have current setting in .new :-)
22:07:59  <Belugas_Gone> supper's ready
22:08:03  <Belugas_Gone> for real
22:08:26  <Rubidium> Zuu: what about: "atomically rename" to openttd.cfg?
22:08:46  <Zuu> Althouh it would be worth to try using simply rename before using the work-around, as the work around has a small risk of leaving a openttd.old file if it crashes.
22:08:56  <Zuu> Rubidium: That would indeed be better.
22:09:09  <Rubidium> Zuu: that is EXACTLY what doesn't work for Windows!
22:09:10  <Zuu> So might be better to try win32api or a shell command.
22:09:25  <Zuu> Ie copy/move file.
22:09:30  <pavel1269> copy :-)
22:10:04  <pavel1269> system("copy openttd.cfg /y"); ? :-)
22:10:33  <pavel1269> ./y for overwrite
22:11:01  <Zuu> You would need to read the status from that and if it succed remove the .new file, to make it consistent with the intended behaviour.
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22:19:26  <Rubidium> the intended behaviour can't be reached on windows anyways as it doesn't have fsync/fdatasync so you can't "force" the file to be written to the disk
22:19:59  <Rubidium> so whatever copying/checking/deleting you do afterwards can lead to a removed file
22:20:54  <OsteHovel^EEE> So on windows you are never sure if the file is REALY written to the disk
22:22:15  <Rubidium> exactly
22:22:22  <Rubidium> so I reckon, why do the effort
22:22:49  <Rubidium> especially when it doesn't have an atomic swap file so you can always end up with a missing openttd.cfg
22:22:49  <Zuu> So instead make it save over the old corfig on windows?
22:23:14  <Zuu> Isn't MoveFile from Win32API atomic?
22:24:34  <OsteHovel^EEE> (Linux) Is it posible to join a network game with no Display( and no sound) ? also null-rendrer?
22:24:49  <pavel1269> :-)
22:25:03  <Rubidium> I reckon it could be possible
22:26:30  <Rubidium> and I reckon MoveFile behaves like rename, i.e. don't overwrite existing files atomically
22:30:10  <Zuu> I have no experience with it. But I see that MoveFileEx has a flag that make it not return before the file actually have been moved. But guess it does not make it atomic in the sense that if the power goes down at the wrong moment it could leave the file system in a bad state, because the operation was not completely executed.
22:31:04  <pavel1269> :-O
22:31:29  <Zuu> I saw there is a API function to flush a file, if you have a filehandle. But I have not tested it and you sond like you have been doing this stuff before and came to the conclusion that it don't work.
22:31:54  <Zuu> sound*
22:32:54  <pavel1269> why dont we revert it just for win users to status, when it worked?
22:33:49  <Zuu> Easiest would probably be to save over the old file directly on windows I guess.
22:36:30  <OsteHovel^EEE> MoveFile do not write over the old file
22:36:41  <OsteHovel^EEE> (just tested)
22:37:28  <Zuu> OsteHovel^EEE: What happen if you use MoveFileEx and add the flag MOVEFILE_REPLACE_EXISTING?
22:37:50  <Zuu> By the way how do you convert the chars to LPCTSTR?
22:37:51  <pavel1269> Zuu: but said, its not safe
22:37:56  <Rubidium> likely big fat crash on "older" windowses
22:38:03  <OsteHovel^EEE> Im gonna trye
22:38:03  <pavel1269> :-D
22:38:05  <OsteHovel^EEE> *try
22:39:31  <OsteHovel^EEE> If you use MOVEFILE_REPLACE_EXISTING flag
22:39:38  <OsteHovel^EEE> The file is overwritten
22:39:55  <Rubidium> now try that on win9x
22:40:02  <pavel1269> :-D
22:40:17  <pavel1269> rub, you are making me laught a lot :-)
22:40:29  <OsteHovel^EEE> In other words: If you use MOVEFILE_REPLACE_EXISTING flag it works like a ordinary rename-linux
22:40:30  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
22:40:36  <OsteHovel^EEE> I dont have win9X:p
22:40:48  <pavel1269> gonna try that in school :-D
22:40:50  <OsteHovel^EEE> but i can test it for you in windows 9x tomorrow if you want?
22:40:57  <pavel1269> nice
22:41:12  <OsteHovel^EEE> i have both windows 95 and windows 98 at CD's and i have VmWare Workstation licence :p
22:41:37  <Rubidium> start with win95
22:42:03  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
22:42:04  <OsteHovel^EEE> Minimum supported client	Windows 2000 Professional
22:42:15  <Rubidium> there's no trace of evidence MoveFileEx works on win9x
22:42:18  <OsteHovel^EEE> At the MDSN page for MoveFileEx
22:43:47  <Rubidium> OsteHovel^EEE: they don't mention lower versions because they aren't officially supported
22:43:54  <OsteHovel^EEE> hehe
22:44:00  <Zuu> OsteHovel^EEE: Did you try using the flush from Win32API?
22:44:00  <OsteHovel^EEE> but now its Good Night for me
22:44:05  <Rubidium> e.g. MoveFile's minimum version is 2000 according to the msdn
22:44:05  <OsteHovel^EEE> Hmm
22:44:13  <OsteHovel^EEE> i dident try flush
22:44:18  <OsteHovel^EEE> i can try
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22:44:48  <Zuu> the file handle f seam to work as argument to the flush-function, at least my compiler don't complain :-)
22:45:02  <Zuu> But if it works, thats another question :)
22:45:08  <Rubidium> whereas other sources say it requires at least NT 3.1 or windows 95
22:45:44  <Rubidium> hmm... MoveFileEx: Requires Windows NT 3.1 or later; Win9x/ME: Not supported
22:45:49  <pavel1269> gn ppl ... i wish u luck with Win :-)
22:46:00  <Zuu> (haven't found out how to convert the strings, thats why I have not been able to test it myself)
22:46:10  <OsteHovel^EEE> Good Night pavel1269 ...
22:46:19  <OsteHovel^EEE> I will try out file moving tomorrow...
22:46:29  <Zuu> Good night
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22:49:06  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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23:01:39  <Yexo> good evening :)
23:01:52  <Zuu> Hello Yexo :)
23:01:56  <Nite_Owl> Hello Yexo
23:02:14  <taisteluorava> oh, clock is 1.01 am already
23:02:22  <Zuu> I updated my post on tt-forums, but couldn't motivate an "I have updated the first post message"
23:02:42  <Zuu> Esp. since I have posted 9 messages on 13:th march allready :)
23:02:56  <Yexo> Zuu: at the time I wrote that I thought the first post was by me, I tried to update the first post directly after that message, failed :P, and correct my message
23:03:02  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
23:03:11  <Nite_Owl> The wonders of time zones
23:04:10  <Zuu> Yexo: hehe, good you're not yet a moderator then as then you would start editing all various posts :)
23:04:24  <Yexo> I wouldn't ahve changed it then either
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23:52:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15704 /trunk/src/ (11 files): -Cleanup: remove further includes from recently split files
23:52:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15705 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: Do not show passenger-/mail-capacity if the aircraft carries only cargo.

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