Log for #openttd on 17th March 2009:
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00:00:02  <wision> is it default left in tt/ttd?
00:00:03  <Prof_Frink> We invented everything the chinese forgot.
00:00:13  <Brianetta> yes
00:00:25  <Rubidium> Ludde inventen OpenTTD!
00:00:48  <Brianetta> Prof_Frink: They didn't forget.  They just rolled their eyes.
00:02:10  <Brianetta> Somebody compete with Vemarkis.
00:06:18  <Sacro> think I might Brianetta
00:15:25  <Brianetta> How the hecking heck do I stop openttd occupying the whole of my screen?
00:15:38  <Brianetta> I can't resize the bugger
00:16:01  <Rubidium> use the sdl video backend instead of the allegro backend
00:16:28  <Rubidium> allegro doesn't do 'custom' resolutions
00:17:32  <Ammler> [00:52] <Brianetta> Heh, sarah_pilot lost her name <-- change from player_name to client_name
00:18:10  <Ammler> good night all.
00:18:40  <Brianetta> Lots of config stuff has changed.  Half the config on my server seems to be default (and sucky)
00:19:04  <Ammler> dunno, if you already use ap+, else you might need to...
00:19:55  <Ammler> he
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00:20:14  <Ammler> are the changes of the new cfg after 0.6 branch?
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00:22:40  <Brianetta> Ah crap, I have to translate diff_custom myself
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00:25:50  <Rubidium> I've got no clue what you've done exactly, but the conversion works for me
00:26:25  <Rubidium> maybe you've started 0.7.0-RC1, then 0.6.3 and then 0.7.0-RC1 again
00:26:43  <Brianetta> Definitely not.  0.6.3 was last run a fortnight ago.
00:26:46  <Rubidium> that would at least explain why you've got the defaults
00:27:10  <Brianetta> It's rewritten most of the settings, but many things are just wrong
00:27:30  <[wito]> Speaking of settings, we could really do with the realistic train accel. :P
00:27:48  <Brianetta> Usually where settings have a different name
00:28:04  <Brianetta> realistic_acceleration = true in last night's backup
00:28:05  <Brianetta> but
00:28:11  <Brianetta> train_acceleration_model = 0
00:28:15  <Brianetta> since today
00:28:20  <Yexo> renamed settings are not converted automatically
00:28:27  <Brianetta> I gathered.
00:28:33  <Brianetta> That includes diff_custom.
00:29:09  <Brianetta> What's dynamic_engines?
00:29:16  <Yexo> I remember a problem with diff_custom, but I thougth that was fixed
00:29:21  <Yexo> dynamic_engines = engine pool
00:29:29  <Rubidium> Brianetta: something blunck doesn't like
00:29:49  <Brianetta> Oh, the thing that lets you run DBSet alongside UKRS (:
00:30:15  <Sacro> Brianetta: i think realistic accel is off
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00:31:17  <Brianetta> Sacro: You're not the first to point this out
00:31:26  <Sacro> hehe
00:31:30  <Sacro> i'm not the quickest
00:33:34  <Brianetta> ERROR: This command/variable is not available during network games.
00:33:35  <Brianetta> This is usually an arbitrary limitation, as far as I can tell.
00:33:52  <Rubidium> yes... arbitrary
00:34:02  <Rubidium> in the sense that it's readable by NewGRFs on game load
00:34:33  <Rubidium> which means that NewGRFs can change the behaviour of the NewGRF based on that value on game load
00:34:46  <Rubidium> which means that changing it during network games can cause desyncs
00:34:49  <Brianetta> Let them, I say.  Just warn the admin.
00:35:29  <Brianetta> There might not *be* and newgrfs.
00:35:34  <Brianetta> s/and/any/
00:35:40  <Sacro> sigh
00:35:51  <Sacro> click and dragging signals still does the first signal type you click
00:35:55  <Sacro> not the signal type you have selected
00:35:55  <Rubidium> yeah, just like changing NewGRFs warns the user and we still get tons of bug reports that changing NewGRFs caused crashes
00:36:05  <Yexo> Sacro: that's intended
00:36:05  <Sacro> can that be fixed/optionable?
00:36:10  <Sacro> Yexo: it's a PITA
00:36:26  <Brianetta> Rubidium: At least none of those bug reports requires fixing.
00:36:38  <Yexo> if the signal you select is a pre/exit/combo signal though, normal signals will be build instead
00:36:57  <Rubidium> Brianetta: if they cared to tell that they did change the NewGRFs in-game yes
00:37:15  <Rubidium> but most of the time you're send on a goose/moose chase
00:37:29  <Sacro> Yexo: not if it's a YAPP
00:37:35  <glx> (luckily we have gamelog now)
00:37:40  <Sacro> i only use YAPP at juntions, I'll never have a need to click and drag them
00:37:46  <Sacro> nor should anyoone else for that matter
00:38:05  <Yexo> that depends on your buidling style, some people (like me) build only pbs signals
00:38:11  <Yexo> just because it's easier to build
00:38:14  <Sacro> eugh
00:38:21  <Sacro> hmm
00:38:31  <Sacro> can we sprite swap the signal graphics...
00:38:39  <Sacro> I hate the fact that PBS signals are plated
00:38:50  <Yexo> make a signals newgrf ;)
00:38:54  <glx> Sacro: use a static newgrf
00:38:59  <Sacro> think I will
00:39:00  <Rubidium> THEN MAKE BETTER GRAPHICS!
00:39:06  <Sacro> automatic signals are plated, not controlled
00:39:10  <Brianetta> I like to build signals realistically, so long straights will have regular (read: automatic) signals.
00:39:24  <Sacro> Brianetta: yep :)
00:39:31  <Sacro> but automatics are plated
00:39:37  <Sacro> black with white line
00:39:39  <Brianetta> Yeah, it's backwards, I know
00:39:46  <Rubidium> Brianetta: and for the others you need to manually set the route each time a train comes ;)
00:39:48  <Brianetta> We need a UK signals grf
00:39:56  <Sacro> but then most people don't seem to know which side of a signal is the front
00:40:05  <Brianetta> Rubidium: For PBS signals, there's a guy in a box somewhere doing just that.
00:40:08  <Sacro> and hence use 'in front' incorrectly
00:40:23  <Sacro> Rubidium: depends, some have auto buttons
00:40:32  <Sacro> other boxes uses Automatic Route Setting Equipment
00:40:47  <Brianetta> Mechanical interlocks (:
00:41:04  <Rubidium> ARS makes simsig boring
00:41:29  <Brianetta> PBS wait is now infinite
00:41:32  <Sacro> Rubidium: it is disableable
00:41:41  <Brianetta> Shame the two-way wait can't be made to be so
00:41:54  <Brianetta> and the one-way for that matter
00:42:23  <Sacro> hmm
00:42:26  <Brianetta> I find that trains which automatically turn around, ever, tend to do so *exactly* as I'm clicking the ignore signals button.
00:42:33  <Sacro> I want distant signals now :(
00:42:43  <Brianetta> Sacro: I want yellow ones
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00:42:49  <Sacro> Brianetta: yes, I might have to do a patch
00:42:50  <Brianetta> and longer reservations
00:42:53  <Sacro> Aye
00:42:58  <Sacro> ooh, 4 aspects :D
00:43:10  <Brianetta> If a train can reserve through two blocks, we might occasionally actually see a green light
00:43:15  <Sacro> 4 aspect signals that reserve two blocks?
00:43:41  <Sacro> could even do flashing greens that reserve 3
00:44:33  <Rubidium> Brianetta: where did you gather the wisdom that you can't disable turning around at two and one way signals?
00:45:00  <Brianetta> THe forum
00:45:48  <Brianetta> I just had to quit openttd to change resolution
00:45:56  <Rubidium> @commit 14852
00:45:56  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by michi_cc :: r14852 /trunk/src (settings.cpp train_cmd.cpp) (2009-01-05 20:29:05 UTC)
00:45:57  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: -Feature: Automatic reversing in front of block signals can now be disabled by setting pf.wait_oneway_signal respectively pf.wait_twoway_signal to 255.
00:46:05  <Brianetta> Cool.
00:46:10  * Brianetta changes them to the magic number
00:46:35  <Sacro> argh
00:46:38  <Sacro> that's not in front
00:46:41  <Sacro> that's behind ><
00:47:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15749 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: apply coding style to disaster_cmd.cpp
00:47:55  <Brianetta> Sacro: The devs aren't railway folk
00:48:05  <Sacro> Brianetta: sigh, I know
00:48:36  <Rubidium> neither are the Dutch train drivers ;)
00:49:09  <Rubidium> "wij wachten voor het sein" -> "we are waiting in front of the signal"
00:49:50  <Brianetta> No, in Soviet Russia, the signal is in front of *you*
00:49:58  <Brianetta> and in the UK, as it happens (:
00:50:02  <Sacro> Yep
00:50:07  <Sacro> the signal is in advance of you
00:50:10  <Sacro> you are in rear of it
00:52:47  <[wito]> argh
00:52:49  <glx> Rubidium: in french it's the same
00:52:57  <[wito]> I can't afford to connect my brand new road depot to the road. :/
00:53:54  <Brianetta> It's nice being able to disable breakdowns on the fly
00:54:02  <glx> hehe
00:54:06  <Brianetta> That used to be a "kick everybody off and start again" fail
00:54:50  <Sacro> Brianetta: they are all going bankrupt :(
00:54:56  <Brianetta> Good.
00:54:59  <Brianetta> Life isn't easy.
00:55:02  <Brianetta> It's a recession.
00:55:11  <[wito]> ooh
00:55:15  <Sacro> whereas my profits are skyrocketing
00:55:19  <[wito]> realistic accel. <3
00:55:22  <Sacro> probably cos I cram all my trains on one line
00:55:27  <[wito]> Sacro: feel free to share the wealth. :P
00:56:12  <Brianetta> reserve_paths = false
00:56:19  <Brianetta> That's not difficult to misinterpret (:
00:58:07  <Sacro> [wito]: still have a loan
00:58:28  <Sacro> I just know how to pull massive profits using coal
00:58:38  <Sacro> hmm, how to use conditional orders
00:58:48  <Sacro> or do i have a huge coal drop off
00:58:55  <Sacro> and have a couple of huge trains to shift any excess
00:58:59  <Sacro> I like the transfer idea better
01:00:45  <[wito]> yeah? Well I have a HEADQUARTER!
01:00:54  <[wito]> They don't call me the king of unneccessaryland for nothing!
01:01:09  <Sacro> Brianetta: i think we should have semaphores on the huge cross track brackety things
01:01:27  * Brianetta blinks
01:01:35  <Brianetta> Oh right
01:01:38  <Brianetta> Yeah
01:01:41  <Brianetta> Lights, too
01:01:53  <Sacro> Yeah
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01:01:57  <Sacro> gantrys!
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01:03:03  <Sacro> hmm, how does this sytem work
01:03:23  <Sacro> i want them to dump any excess onto the overflow train
01:03:32  <Sacro> but if the powerstation can take it then it should
01:03:34  <Sacro> ><
01:03:39  <Yexo> use unload
01:04:04  <Yexo> unload and leave empty to be exact
01:04:59  <Sacro> hmm, right :)
01:05:07  <Sacro> wh would you have unload and take cargo?
01:05:52  <Yexo> that can be usefull for two-way trains, where both stations have a coal mine and a powerplant
01:08:29  <Sacro> Oh right
01:13:30  <[wito]> My god, man!
01:13:37  <[wito]> You're gonna bleed the land dry!
01:15:08  <Sacro> wyho me?
01:15:30  <Sacro> [wito]: me?
01:15:35  <[wito]> yes
01:15:43  <Sacro> all these trains need coal
01:16:54  <[wito]> It's a bit sad
01:17:00  <Sacro> what?
01:17:09  <[wito]> my horses are the only sound investment I've made so far in this game. :/
01:17:15  <Sacro> horses?
01:18:02  <Sacro> oh es
01:23:36  <Brianetta> Hmm, I think autoclean might bite us in the arse tonight
01:24:26  <Brianetta> Oh wait, the comments don't reflect the logic
01:26:19  <Brianetta> and the wiki's out of date now
01:26:39  <Brianetta> I'll fix it tomorrow if I remember, but right now I'm off to bed
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01:30:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15750 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Fix: The big ufo sometimes landed just outside the map. Instead of landing, just disappear (fly away) in those cases.
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04:01:26  <racetrack> haha. I screwed up and my trains crashed. a couple of months later I get a popup "train is very old and needs replacing".
04:01:36  <racetrack> which I suppose is technically true
04:01:38  <racetrack> it was very old
04:01:41  <racetrack> and it does need replacing
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06:20:09  <Forked> coffee good.
06:22:09  <goodger> non-coffee also bad
06:22:11  <goodger> *good
06:24:00  <goodger> sorry, lack of coffee
06:24:00  <goodger> to clarify, non-coffee also good
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07:46:03  <petern> :D
07:47:18  <goodger> D:
07:47:25  <Forked> need..more..coffeee
07:48:20  * goodger is going to try and locate a bulk source of relentless
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07:50:59  <dyzdyz> hi all
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07:57:00  <dih> i need a good and reasonable colocation hoster
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08:08:42  <dyzdyz> do i need files from "data" folder for compiling ottd?
08:08:49  <dyzdyz> or just for playing?
08:08:55  <Forked> just for playing
08:09:04  <dyzdyz> thx
08:09:16  <dyzdyz> and what about files from "lang" folder
08:09:18  <dyzdyz> ?
08:09:39  <Noldo> what are you trying to do?
08:10:17  <dyzdyz> i'm compiling ottd in msvs9
08:10:38  <dyzdyz> and when i compiled lataest rev, just added lang files from latest nightly
08:10:52  <dyzdyz> but now i'm compiling older rev
08:11:09  <dyzdyz> and i'm not sure where to get lang files
08:11:25  <Noldo> where did you get the source?
08:11:26  <Ammler> lang files are in trunk
08:11:30  <dih> if you grab the source, the source of the lang files are there already
08:11:33  <dih> and will be compiled
08:11:35  <dyzdyz> Noldo: svn
08:11:39  <Ammler> :-)
08:11:47  <dih> then have a look in src/lang/ ;-)
08:11:47  <Ammler> morning
08:11:51  <dih> hi
08:12:41  <Noldo> dih: are you working on something ottd related nowadays?
08:12:59  <dyzdyz> dih: so what files i have to copy manually after compiling?
08:13:29  <dih> Noldo: ottd related or ottd?
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08:13:50  <dih> dyzdyz, after compiling != for compiling!
08:14:13  <dyzdyz> i mean after
08:14:19  <dih> to play?
08:14:23  <dyzdyz> yes
08:14:35  <dih> the data files as described in the readme.txt file
08:14:44  <Noldo> dih: to which ever the answer is 'yes'
08:14:54  <dih> mainly openttd related
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08:15:03  <Noldo> autopilot stuff?
08:15:05  <dih> yep
08:19:41  <petern> you don't need to copy anything
08:19:47  <petern> just hit run
08:20:18  <dih> hit & run?
08:20:24  <petern> quite
08:20:30  <dih> Noldo,
08:26:23  <dyzdyz> hmmm, my lang files just did not compile...
08:27:30  <dih> so there is just an empty bin/lang/ folder?
08:28:14  <dyzdyz> yes :-)
08:28:46  <petern> so find out why
08:29:09  <dyzdyz> i will
08:29:51  <dih> but there is an openttd executable in bin/?
08:30:07  <dih> why not paste your compile output to
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08:31:55  <dyzdyz> ok, my mistake
08:32:20  <dyzdyz> the *.exe apperas not in bin folder
08:32:46  <dyzdyz> but in objs/Win32/Release
08:33:17  <dyzdyz> when i copied it into bin folder works almost fine :-)
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08:38:58  <dyzdyz> is it possible that because of not having copypaste.grf when compilig (just added it into data folder later) the fuction doesn't work?
08:39:24  <dyzdyz> does GRFs influent on compiling?
08:39:38  <Noldo> no
08:40:00  <dyzdyz> hmmm
08:40:09  <dih> dyzdyz, why dont you read up on what the copypaste.grf is for?
08:40:28  <dih> and then wonder if you really need to ask that kind of question ^^
08:40:43  <dyzdyz> i did :-)
08:40:50  <dih> yes, my system cannot copy files from a/ to b/ because i am missing a game extention file
08:40:52  <dyzdyz> but i have no more ideas :-/
08:41:03  <dih> makes sense
08:41:16  <dih> please please, just paste your compiler output to
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08:42:00  <dyzdyz>
08:43:31  <dih> oh - you are not even using ./configure and Makefile ??
08:44:28  <dyzdyz> i'm not
08:44:38  <dyzdyz> i used this instruction:
08:48:57  <dyzdyz> i downloaded and patched the source using tortoiseSVN, the patch matches rev, followe dinstructions from wiki, got build without errors, copiet data folder, including copypaste.grf...
08:50:01  <dyzdyz> sorry for misspellings
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09:07:29  <Darkvater> bleh, disc
09:10:06  <petern> hurr hurr hurr
09:12:14  * dih waves hello to DarkSSHClone
09:12:16  <dih> aahahhh
09:12:19  <dih> Darkvater,
09:12:20  <dih> there
09:12:22  <dih> :-P
09:15:14  <Darkvater> hmm
09:15:35  * DASPRiD is pretty round
09:16:25  <Darkvater> gaah, huge laaag
09:16:33  *** DarkSSHClone was kicked from #openttd by Darkvater [fo]
09:16:40  <DASPRiD> lol
09:17:01  <petern> hmm, still only 8 companies
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09:23:07  <SpComb> Darkvater: it's much more stylish to kill off your own clones using NickServ
09:23:43  <dih> ^^
09:23:57  <petern> ARGH FUCKING SHIT
09:24:07  <petern> thunderbird is really pissing me off
09:24:12  <petern> what's a good imap client for windows?
09:24:29  <dih> ....
09:24:36  <dih> thunderbird? :-P
09:24:39  <petern> no
09:24:40  <dih> what's the issue?
09:24:42  <petern> it's shit
09:25:23  <petern> it's deleting behaviour leaves a lot to be desired
09:25:30  <petern> and then it locks up
09:26:28  <Darkvater> tb was er slow when I used ti
09:26:32  <Darkvater> so back to outlook :)
09:27:02  <petern> there's no way to expunge a mailbox without installing a plugin
09:27:07  <petern> and then it takes AGES to do it
09:27:59  * petern tries mulberry
09:28:08  <dih> telnet ^^
09:28:20  <petern> nah
09:28:24  <petern> talking imap is not fun
09:30:07  <dih>
09:31:13  <petern> i'm not using webmail
09:31:55  <racetrack> petern: "file->compact folders"
09:31:58  <racetrack> iirc
09:32:04  <racetrack> that issues EXPUNGE
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09:34:27  <petern> bah, mulberry's shit too
09:35:01  <dih> petern: #thunderbird
09:35:01  <dih> :-D
09:35:27  <petern> i like evolution
09:35:41  <petern> but the windows version sucks
09:36:28  * petern ponders forking evolution and calling it 'creationism'
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11:45:06  <Forked> racetrack: sent you an answer.. but when fiddling around shortly after the save I sent you I managed to crash the game too.. will see if I can reproduce
11:46:13  <racetrack> Forked: ahh, didn't see you in here. thanks for that
11:46:26  <racetrack> fixed my crasher too
11:46:55  <Forked> racetrack: seeing some strange behaviour when stopping and reversing the train while it's in a DTD. Using the diff and rev mentioned in my pm
11:47:24  <Forked> right now I have the same train thats in the save standing perfectly still while invisible .. heading for a depot at (it claims) 201km/h
11:49:16  <racetrack> awesome, again not realising its in the depot
11:49:30  <racetrack> gimme a sec, I'll commit/stash what I'm in the middle of and then rebuild for your rev
11:50:04  <Forked> I don't have much time to help right now, suppose to be working :)  (but I end up being hardly working :p)
11:50:50  <racetrack> haha thats ok, I gtg to bed shortly anyway
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11:51:10  <Rubidium> we can easily exempt you from that requirement ;)
11:51:43  <racetrack> cool then, I'll tackle it on the bus in the morning. you've got seven hours to fill up my inbox with whatever tests and another crap you can :)
11:51:52  <racetrack> Rubidium: pretty wife trumps your exemption, sorry ;)
11:52:43  <Forked> racetrack: if you have a new diff I can test a bit more later
11:53:27  <Forked> visually that was pretty cool.. had two wagons mergo into each other and then totally dissapair in a depot :p not sure how I did it
11:53:34  <racetrack> maybe. what I have isn't really suitable for consumption, but I'll look back a few revs to see if I have one that's a little more solid
11:53:37  <racetrack> haha
11:53:49  <Forked> two trains stuck in there somewhere.. :)
11:53:52  <racetrack> if they're coming in from opposite sides they won't collide
11:54:00  <racetrack> the overlap looks really weird
11:54:24  <Forked> no rush, once things are ready and if I have time.. I can try and mess things up a bit :)
11:54:30  <racetrack> so much so that I'm considering only allowing one to enter at a time and making the other stop at a fake signal. just to make it look nice :P
11:58:23  <petern> moo
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12:08:59  <racetrack> Forked:
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12:09:20  <racetrack> thats latest latest, with my barely-tested signalling stuff in
12:09:32  <racetrack> which isn't at all right yet, along the lines of my forum post
12:09:41  <racetrack> (ie checking the block on the wrong side before leaving)
12:09:59  <racetrack> but if you just play with single trains you should be fine
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12:22:01  <petern> hmm, i can't see how to do this mapping thing without an 'object' :o
12:26:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15751 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/ (debug.cpp string.cpp string_func.h):
12:26:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [MSU] -Fix: compilation
12:26:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [MSU] -Backport: improvement of string helper functions
12:26:51  <petern> hm
12:30:51  <petern> (compiled, untested)
12:31:02  <petern> gah, stupid web server
12:32:40  <dih> petern, if you want it tested, best hint i could give would be ask the openttdguys to run it on their dev game ;-)
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12:34:16  <Rubidium> dih: it's not like their test of that diff will be very useful
12:34:21  <petern> indeed it won't
12:34:34  <petern> anyway
12:34:45  <Rubidium> especially as in their case half of the diff isn't even triggered
12:35:00  <petern> to avoid calling Sl(Read|Write)Byte() directly seems i have to go through hoops
12:35:14  <dih> oh that's a bummer
12:35:44  <petern> (compare with railtypemap2.diff)
12:37:39  <Rubidium> the other solution is SLEG but that also introduces a global variable
12:38:09  <petern> indeed
12:41:14  <petern> somebody didn't like Sl(Read|Write)Byte(), can't remmeber who :o
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13:08:01  <Forked> woho. I have the invisible train
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13:17:00  <petern> Rubidium, what's your opinion?
13:17:13  <petern> SLE, SLEG, or SlR/WByte?
13:20:46  <Rubidium> should I have one?
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13:21:05  <petern> insert implicit "if you have one" :p
13:21:27  <Rubidium> and any reason why it shouldn't be similar to the house/industry/vehicle override stuf?
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13:25:57  <dih> <- let servers mention the client id of the joined client in the join message
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13:26:47  <dih> this is useful if the admin needs to act quickly and saves him from possibly having to go through a long clients list finding the ip
13:26:51  <dih> the id, sorry
13:30:48  <dih> Rubidium, ^
13:31:08  <dih> or would you prefer a fs entry? :-P
13:31:18  <dih> s/ a / an /
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13:39:10  <DASPRiD> dih, you should not talk to yourself in #ottdcoop :P
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14:03:33  <dih> DASPRiD, perhaps you did not get what that was about ;-)
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14:25:14  <fonsinchen> I frequently get the following problem: I want to initialize some values when loading or starting a game, but I don't want to save them as they can be computed from other values. I don't quite know how to do that properly. Of course I can wait until the first function using the respective data is called and then see if it's initialized and act accordingly. But that's ugly. Is there a better solution?
14:26:33  <petern> there's a whole set of stuff done after load
14:26:41  <petern> in, er, saveload/afterload
14:26:41  <Forked> such hostility on the forum :\
14:27:04  <petern> i might just slip and click on the X for his posts
14:27:24  <Rubidium> "I wanted to report it"
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14:27:54  <fonsinchen> Oh, nice. Thanks. I assume this is also called when starting a new game?
14:30:26  <SmatZ> AfterLoadGame is called after loading a game
14:30:52  <Rubidium> InitialiseGame ;)
14:30:52  <Rubidium> that one's called for both new and loaded games
14:30:53  <SmatZ> have a look at InitilizeGame or so :)
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14:37:25  <fonsinchen> ok, thanks
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15:46:39  <[wito]> Sacro: Woop
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16:06:41  <Sacro> [wito]: yeah?
16:07:11  <[wito]> I was under the impression that the server was paused when noone was connected
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16:09:42  <[wito]> because, err
16:09:46  <[wito]> it wasn't. :P
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16:11:59  <Sacro> gege
16:12:01  <Sacro> *hehe
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16:12:31  <[wito]> so
16:12:42  <[wito]> you might want to log in real quick and clean up your network
16:12:53  <[wito]> there's quite a few congestion points where coal mines have ceased to be
16:13:38  <petern> ah, sacro's network :p
16:13:44  <petern> he's good at congestion points
16:13:53  <Sacro> oh yes
16:13:56  <Sacro> I need to fix that
16:14:10  <Sacro> petern: i had a rather efficient snazzy junction
16:14:19  <Sacro> 4 track line to 5 plat terminus
16:15:46  <Sacro> hmm
16:15:54  <Sacro> let me snag the OSX binary
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16:21:40  <petern> pah, OSX
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16:26:43  <pavel1269> hi
16:26:47  <dih> osx rox
16:26:54  <dih> ^^
16:28:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15752 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Fix: don't try to (un)draw the cursor when the screen is not ready
16:28:59  <Rubidium> dih: and the way that osx rox is shown by the fact that no-one has fixed the OSX specific bugs nor implemented the missing automatic font selection
16:30:19  <dih> Rubidium, rocks are hard ^^
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16:44:59  <el_en> B!
16:45:35  <Bjarni> e!
16:46:40  <Bjarni> nice. The document I was promised to get at least 45 minutes ago have yet to arrive
16:46:42  <yorick> !inrajB
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16:48:08  <Bjarni> yorick: looks like you have a 64 bit endian issue
16:48:33  <yorick> me?
16:48:35  <yorick> yes
16:48:40  <Bjarni> yorick: does this look correct to you?
16:48:44  <el_en> not you, the other yorick
16:48:49  <Bjarni> 876543219
16:49:14  <batti5> Romanian Train Set 0.2 is relased.
16:49:16  <Bjarni> yeah, that yorick --->
16:49:29  <yorick> that says 437294218?
16:49:57  <yorick> batti5: released*
16:50:53  <Bjarni> At one time I was named "rajBin" in multiplayer games. That's how we figured that we need to do some serious endian fixing in the network code
16:51:03  <batti5> <yorick> Thanks
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16:51:42  <el_en> Bjarni: probably saved you from guantánamo, too.
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16:54:12  <Bjarni> ?
16:54:48  <Bjarni> what's nauganátom?
16:55:04  <el_en> wtf, you haven't even heard of guantánamo?
16:55:36  <glx> isn't it supposed to be closed now?
16:55:37  <el_en> have you followed the news during the past 8 years?
16:55:42  <el_en> glx: not yet, but soon.
16:56:03  <el_en> or did they already manage to close it this quickly?
16:57:12  <Bjarni> they postponed closing it for one year
16:57:25  <Bjarni> they figured that they couldn't handle it as quickly as they presumed
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17:18:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15753 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15702)[FS#2742]: Crash when clicking the small area between the savegame list and the save button in the save game window.
17:19:42  <taisteluorava> heh, nice fix
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17:21:06  <Yexo> actually it's more a hack, but this makes it easy to backport
17:21:55  <taisteluorava> btw there is bug when you use bigger font which goes over "fontbox", it draw those letters in screen
17:22:00  <Yexo> if RC1 hadn't been released yet I'd have rewritten nearly all code that handles that window, to document the widgets
17:22:22  <Yexo> do you have an example of such a font?
17:22:34  <taisteluorava> when you set medium_size font over 12 youl's see it easily when moving any windows
17:22:36  <taisteluorava> "window
17:23:39  <taisteluorava> i can upload a screenshot, it tells more than 100 word
17:25:46  <Yexo> not needed, I've seen the problem already
17:26:19  <Yexo> but this won't be fixed untill Albert's oop widgets hit trunk
17:26:53  <taisteluorava> kk
17:27:08  <taisteluorava> but it happens only when text is too "long" to box
17:27:21  <taisteluorava> yeah, u know
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17:27:56  <petern> the gui is not scalable
17:28:05  <petern> so it's not a bug, but expected behaviour
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17:28:42  <taisteluorava> yeah, not big deal anyways
17:29:00  <Belugas> cpp_gui is the answer to all those problems
17:29:55  <Yexo> will solve a quite a few
17:32:50  <el_en> what do you think, would Bjarni know that Toronto is the capital of Canada?
17:33:18  <Belugas> hehehe
17:33:28  <Belugas> i think Bjarni would know better ;)
17:36:14  <petern> i though cpp_gui was dead?
17:36:25  <petern> or is nestedwidgets an evolution?
17:36:49  <Rubidium> cpp_gui is dead for a long time
17:37:31  <Rubidium> say two years
17:38:07  <Belugas> not sure if estedwidgets is the nest step, but at least it's alive :)
17:38:10  <Belugas> +n
17:38:23  * Belugas shacks his defective keyboard
17:39:38  <Belugas> and no, i don't REALLY think cpp_gui wold have solved it
17:39:44  <Belugas> not in that form, anyway
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17:49:36  <petern> rightyho
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18:00:18  <petern> Belugas, from what i saw of it nestedwidgets is a good thing
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18:06:45  <Forked> hm
18:08:16  <Alberth> Belugas: I had a look at cpp_gui, and decided we needed something simpler
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18:15:23  * Belugas agrees with both of you, petern and Alberth
18:19:58  <petern> Alberth: so do it ;)
18:21:44  <Belugas> on the other hand... i fear that a system that would resize a gui/widget up until the text is fully displayed might give some very unbalanced windows
18:22:24  <Belugas> like... imagine a german translator getting wacko ;)
18:23:33  <petern> pah, silly germans ;)
18:24:13  * Forked ponders about the attitude some people have
18:25:59  <Forked> if it's so horrible that they (devs) have not created a much wanted feature.. why not do it yourself instead of complaining how it's been overlooked FOR A BILLION years by ..someone else
18:26:21  <Alberth> Belugas: is not a problem, germans are used to such windows, and non-germans don't use that lang file :P
18:26:28  <Forked> can someone explain? :)
18:26:37  <Yexo> Forked: still talking about Sirkoz?
18:26:58  <Forked> let's call the person anonymous #5 ? it doesn't matter who it is, or does it?
18:27:23  <Yexo> no, but I'd like to be sure we're talking about the same one :)
18:27:53  <Belugas> it might matter.  some users have a bery big ego and are quite furstrated when their beloved work did not find the direct path to trunk
18:28:03  <Alberth> everybody is used to complaining about computers and programs. Most probably don't even realize they can fix it if they wanted it
18:28:30  <Belugas> but Alberth, it means actually to... work...
18:28:33  <Belugas> yurk!
18:28:46  <Forked> Belugas: It is not the author of the patch that is ..commenting on the feature being overlooked.. in this case
18:28:59  <Belugas> you've got to be kidding!... it's a game!!! why should I work at all???
18:29:15  <Belugas> Forked, it's something very common
18:29:25  <Belugas> it's an egocentric thing
18:30:18  <Alberth> Belugas: and not only do you have to work, you also have to think very hard of a better way to deal with the problem in a general way (ie not a solution that works for yourself only)
18:30:25  <Forked> "I shouted my needs, why the hell isn't the world doing what I want!?"
18:30:53  <Belugas> indeed, indeed
18:31:09  <Rubidium> because your on my foo list
18:31:15  <Rubidium> uhm... foe
18:31:24  <Forked> I still find it amazing that people actually spend their own time to make such cool stuff.. without demanding anything in return (except less bitching perhaps:p)
18:31:40  <pavel1269> :-)
18:31:42  <Forked> Rubidium: I am? neat =p
18:32:14  <Rubidium> maybe
18:32:29  <Rubidium> don't know and can't be bothered to look at it
18:32:48  <Rubidium> but well... lots of threads look like monologues
18:33:51  <pavel1269> ye, because not many ppl can compile? and those patches, not big, and anything very new, why bother? :-)
18:34:44  <Alberth> pavel1269: compiling from source is becoming a lost art
18:34:55  <pavel1269> yeah
18:35:32  <pavel1269> but i am sad that i have never been able to produce somethink cool myself :-( ....
18:35:41  <Forked> well setting up the whole MS environment can be a pain.. but for me mingw32 has worked pretty good.
18:36:11  <pavel1269> i always know, how should i write it ... but i get stuck, when i dont know, how to write it in "real" ... :(
18:37:33  <Forked> Yexo: and yes, this time it was.
18:37:51  <Belugas> pavel1269, ne step at a time. programming is not something you receive at birth.  you have to understand a lot.
18:38:39  <glx> really?
18:39:13  <pavel1269> i do understand "a lot" for me .... but its just basics .... when it come to "&", a lot of pointers and templates i am lost :-(
18:40:28  <Alberth> pavel1269: that's normal. You try something and get stuck. You learn why your approach does not work, find a new approach, try, fail again, etc. Each time you get a bit further until you run out of steps you need to do. Then you have solved the problem !
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18:40:45  <Alberth> glx: there are some exceptions of course
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18:43:50  <Belugas> glx, yes, when starting to code from scratch, there are lots of stuff to "swallow"
18:43:58  <Belugas> that is my opinion, anyway
18:48:50  <Alberth> Current high level languages also create a barrier for OpenTTD coding. New programmers can write programs without ever seeing or using a pointer explicitly, so they don't understand the concept good enough to use in a language like C or C++
18:49:31  <Yexo> then it's a good idea for them to learn a bit about pointers
18:50:24  <Yexo> using high level languages is fine, but imo people should understand (at least to a certain point) how pointers work / how using advanced things effects the performance of your program
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18:52:19  <Alberth> Rubidium: I proposed to introduce Point16 rather than using Point so all alternatives of the NWidgetPart union are (roughly) of the same size.
18:53:03  <Rubidium> with 64 bits pointers that'll still be the case
18:53:41  <Alberth> thinking ahead to 64bit systems eh? :D
18:54:36  <petern> ahead?
18:55:23  <Alberth> I still have a Win95 system with a Pentium 120 standing here :P
18:55:46  <Alberth> Great for DOS games
18:56:56  <Rubidium> isn't DOS box for that?
18:57:09  <glx> Alberth: I have a 133MMX with win98 ;)
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18:57:51  <Prof_Frink> I'm *using* a 166MMX.
19:00:44  <Rubidium> my CPU also supports MMX and is faster than 166 MHz
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19:02:59  <petern> even so
19:06:38  <Aali> I have a 64-bit system from 1993 :)
19:06:43  *** Klanticus [] has joined #openttd
19:06:58  <Aali> or was it 94? i forget
19:07:08  <glx> not a PC I guess
19:07:19  <Aali> indeed
19:07:25  <Aali> its an alphastation
19:07:57  <[wito]> ]]]margin % [wito]
19:08:33  <[wito]> ww
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19:11:56  <[wito]> Sacro: Woop?
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19:16:19  <Wolf01> hello
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19:23:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15754 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
19:23:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-17 18:42:46
19:23:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 63 fixed by thetitan (63)
19:23:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 fixed by habell (4)
19:23:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: romanian - 3 fixed by kkmic (3)
19:23:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 3 fixed by eusebio (3)
19:23:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: turkish - 3 fixed by Emin (3)
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19:39:59  <el_en> hello Wolf01
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19:40:34  <Wolf01> hello el_en
19:40:56  <el_en> buenasera
19:41:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15755 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_house.cpp town.h): -Fix: Number of houses in house variables 0x44, 0x60 and 0x61 were incorrect after 0xFF had been reached and could desync clients joining afterwards.
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19:48:48  <Wolf01> after downloading the opengfx via the content manager and trying to activate it from the game options I receive a warning about corrupt or missing grf, it's that right?
19:53:12  <Wolf01> ok, now it works, I needed to close and restart ottd
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20:05:08  <frosch123> was the check-landscape-generator-sprites-check comitted?
20:05:24  <frosch123> hmm, or actually coded...
20:05:32  <Rubidium> no
20:06:39  <Rubidium> there's a "read only the bits that are needed for the height" change and one that enabled the "fix slopes" for generated maps
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20:09:19  <frosch123> so, "enough" :)
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21:20:18  <Bjarni> <el_en> what do you think, would Bjarni know that Toronto is the capital of Canada? <-- do you think I'm stupid or something?
21:20:28  <Bjarni> <Belugas> i think Bjarni would know better ;) <-- at least one person knows me ^^
21:21:22  <SmatZ> does not knowing capitals make you stupid?
21:21:50  <Bjarni> it might
21:22:17  <Bjarni> but considering the fact that a relative moved to Toronto, I should know XD
21:22:22  <frosch123> you needed various hours to google for it though
21:22:28  <SmatZ> hehe
21:22:33  <Bjarni> I have never seen him and he died of old age some years ago, but still
21:22:43  <SmatZ> ah :(
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21:23:05  <Bjarni> <frosch123> you needed various hours to google for it though <--- no. I wasn't paying attention
21:23:10  <Bjarni> basically I fell asleep
21:23:16  <Bjarni> I had a hard exam today
21:24:07  <frosch123> so, no lecture? I see, easy to run out of sleep in that case.
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21:35:54  <Bjarni> <frosch123> so, no lecture? I see, easy to run out of sleep in that case. <-- actually I had lectures all day except for lunch break and the time for the exam
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21:41:31  <sailo> hey guys, when becomes a town a city?
21:41:36  <el_en> right, the attempt to fool Bjarni into thinking Toronto is the capital instead of Vancouver has failed.
21:41:59  <Rubidium> they don't
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21:42:11  <Rubidium> it starts as town or it starts as city
21:42:23  <Rubidium> but it won't change "type"
21:42:39  <el_en> they becomen't
21:42:48  <sailo> so there are some towns, where you simply can't build a bank?
21:42:58  <sailo> even though they become huge?
21:43:08  <[wito]> sailo: banks are population-based
21:43:14  <[wito]> 1200 in temperate, I believe
21:43:19  <Bjarni> el_en: pisst.... Ottawa
21:43:25  <sailo> okay then.
21:43:27  <sailo> thanks.
21:43:36  <Rubidium> for that a town just needs 1200 inhabitants
21:43:48  <Rubidium> and then it's random anyways
21:44:07  <Rubidium> so a town with 1200 inhabitants can get a bank whereas one with a million might not
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21:50:18  <SmatZ> [22:43:21] <Bjarni> el_en: pisst.... Ottawa <== frosch123 was right about "hours spent googling" :-D
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21:54:54  <el_en> yeah :)
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23:26:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15756 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: remove the assumption that the second windget is always the title bar. Also replace a few magic numbers with a const.
23:27:38  <SmatZ> uh uh tea and glass shards all over my floor, what have I done :-x
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23:30:13  <Rubidium> proven Newtons theorem that tea doesn't fall far from the table
23:31:20  <SmatZ> hehehe
23:33:27  <Vikthor> Or maybe proven you should stop coding and go to bed, you OpenTTD-holic :p
23:34:09  <SmatZ> Vikthor: it would be great if I were coding for OTTD :) sadly, school is what matters now...
23:35:09  <Rubidium> nah, this is the best time of the day to do coding
23:35:16  <Rubidium> nice and quiet
23:35:19  <SmatZ> :o)
23:35:27  * Sacro hums
23:35:38  <Rubidium> no stupid ln/yorick/... who's annoying you
23:35:53  <SmatZ> hehe
23:36:03  <SmatZ> I am not annyoned by them though :)
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23:45:39  <emjay88> anyone here I can talk to about the Graphics replacement project?
23:46:51  <Rubidium> depends on the part you want to talk about
23:47:22  <emjay88> Just need a quick explaination of how I can help
23:47:34  <emjay88> I unzipped the opengfx files
23:48:01  <Rubidium>
23:48:01  <emjay88> and would like to have a go at building graphics, but don't really know anything about the codes for the metadata file
23:49:07  <Rubidium> that page lists the missing sprites, i.e. the sprites you can draw
23:49:28  <emjay88> yeah, I have been around the wiki, that's more of an "About the project" and "how to set up opengfx"
23:49:48  <emjay88> not really "you need to make a x file and it needs to be x by y pixels etc"
23:49:57  <Rubidium> when you're satified with them you can post them in the forum thread mentioned at the bottom of the page
23:51:48  <emjay88> ok, so I need to look for one that's missing, find it's pink square in the pcx file, and make an image that's that big?
23:52:07  <emjay88> ie, one that matches the dimensions of the pink placeholder?
23:52:22  <Rubidium> it should be black, not pink
23:52:41  <emjay88> might be a "feature" of Eye of Gnome :P
23:52:44  <Rubidium> so I think you need to try another palette in grfcodec
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23:54:35  <Rubidium> anyhow, for town buildings you need to make sure that it fits within the "base" of a tile
23:55:17  <emjay88> how do I know how many tiles a particular building uses? (or are they all one tile?)
23:55:53  <Rubidium> decode the original graphics ;)
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23:58:35  <emjay88> what palette do the openGFX files use?
23:58:56  <Rubidium> check the .obg
23:59:49  <Rubidium> probably the windows palette

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