Log for #openttd on 20th March 2009:
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00:00:18  *** DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
00:06:19  <eMJay88> If I'm looking at, and I want to fix something on the TODO list, who should I ask for more detail about what needs to be done? Is there any way (short of svn logs) of finding out who created the TODO?
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00:09:53  <Yexo> eMJay88: the best way to look for things that have to be done is looking at
00:10:41  <Yexo> if you need help, just ask in this channel if you don't know who to ask about something
00:12:14  <eMJay88> Yexo: okie doke
00:13:17  <Rubidium> <- that likes a cleanup too ;)
00:13:36  <Yexo> hehe :p
00:15:02  <eMJay88> hooray for compile warnings :P
00:15:56  <Rubidium> openttd is basically compile warning free
00:16:08  <Rubidium> doxygen gives loads of warnings about missing documentation though
00:16:52  <eMJay88> I remember when I did a big Java project and I was told it needed to build a javadoc *after* I'd pretty much finished the code
00:17:09  <eMJay88> so much missing documentation
00:17:38  <Rubidium> documenting is actually a good way to get yourself familiar with the coding style and the internals
00:18:12  <eMJay88> ok, this may sound like a wierd question, are there any issues in flyspray that you guys know are "easy" enough for me (a competent (I hope) programmer, but a beginner to OpenTTD) to fix up?
00:18:40  <eMJay88> I've had a look at low severity, but that's not really a measure of complexity...
00:19:08  <Yexo> I don't think there are any bugs left that are easy to fix
00:19:19  <Yexo> might be some feature requests though, I'll have a look
00:19:25  <Rubidium> well.. 2429 and/or 2365 might be easy to fix
00:19:41  <Rubidium> just need to reproduce it
00:22:18  <Rubidium> eMJay88: I guess we can assume you're using Windows, right?
00:22:51  <eMJay88> no, I'm running Ubuntu (8.04), but I have windows xp sp3 in a virtual box
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00:24:20  <Yexo> FS#1886 might be easy to fix (at least partly as suggested by skidd in the last comment)
00:24:24  <Yexo> that might be already done though
00:24:25  <eMJay88> Rubidium: re FS#2365, I think I have access to a touchscreened laptop, so I might be able to try reproducing...
00:25:53  <eMJay88> although I'm not sure how to right click on a touchscreen :S
00:27:31  <Rubidium> neither do I
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00:32:31  <Tefad> two fingers?
00:33:19  <eMJay88> I don't think there are many multi-touch screens out yet... Outside of Apple anyway
00:34:27  <Aali> no
00:34:48  <Aali> you tap with two fingers to get a right click on some touchscreens
00:36:22  <[wito]> OpenTTD on the iPhone would be Hard Core
00:36:39  <Yexo> [wito]: that's already possible
00:36:49  <[wito]> Yes, but is it done?
00:37:17  <TrueBrain> it sucks big time
00:37:24  <Yexo> [wito]: yes:
00:37:26  <TrueBrain> there is no way to control such game on such hardware
00:37:38  <eMJay88> There is a "proof of concept" openttd on DS
00:40:54  <eMJay88> doesn't work very well, but it runs
00:41:09  <eMJay88> the pathfinder is what kills it i beleive
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00:47:44  <Rubidium> nah, what kills a DS port is the size of OpenTTD
00:48:14  <Rubidium> it needs to fit the binary and all it's memory requirements in 4 MB
00:48:25  <glx> and ugly memory access on DS
00:48:33  <Sacro> i have OpenTTD on my DS
00:49:10  <eMJay88> DS only has 4mb of memory? I would have thought more than that given the size of the ROMs
00:49:13  <racetrack> I've been thinking about doing a fresh port and building a new ui that better fits the ds hardware
00:49:18  <racetrack> obviously a massive job :P
00:49:33  <racetrack> eMJay88: yeah, only 4mb .. you just load the bits of the rom you need
00:49:45  <racetrack> and/or map them into the address space
00:50:02  <racetrack> its quite a fun and challenging platform to write for
00:50:04  <glx> it should be possible to use RAM extensions but they are usually slow
00:50:08  <Tefad> are you saying 4MB or 4Mb
00:50:14  <Tefad> i'm assuming you mean mega and not milli
00:50:23  <racetrack> 4194304 bytes
00:50:30  <Tefad> thanks
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00:51:35  <eMJay88> so 4MiB
00:52:05  <Brokkoli> my first computer hat 2 mb and tt worked just fine ;)
00:52:27  <racetrack> 2mb? mine had 2k ;)
00:52:35  <Brokkoli> ram?
00:52:38  <racetrack> yep
00:52:47  <Brokkoli> thats not much :P
00:53:08  <glx> 640KB used to be enough :)
00:53:13  <Brokkoli> sure
00:53:26  <glx> nobosy will ever need more
00:53:30  <glx> *nobody
00:54:23  <Rubidium> ofcourse TT didn't do everything OpenTTD does
00:54:32  <Brokkoli> thats right
00:54:50  <glx> 256*256, no grfs, ...
00:54:55  <Brokkoli> yes
00:55:04  <Brokkoli> ok 256x256 is ok for playing
00:56:03  <Brokkoli> and very few vehicles there...
00:56:15  <racetrack> its a portable. I'd expect it to be cut down. thats kinda the idea
00:56:55  <Rubidium> OpenTTD is quite a bit more wasty with memory than TT(D)
00:57:07  <Brokkoli> yes
00:57:11  <Rubidium> lots of that is for caches
00:57:13  <Brokkoli> using modern pcs its ok ;)
00:57:55  <Rubidium> ripping that out will be quite troublesome I'd reckon
00:58:17  <racetrack> I'd probably trim it in other areas .. so no newgrfs, less options, lighter ui, smaller maps, dumber pathfinding, maybe even something extreme like getting rid of trucks or something
00:58:20  <Brokkoli> yes.. and it will slow it down even more on ds
00:58:30  <racetrack> you could argue whether it'd still be openttd
00:58:34  <Rubidium> dumber ais == no ais
00:58:40  <racetrack> but who cares as long as its fun and fits the platform nicely
00:58:49  <Rubidium> no newgrfs == problems loading basic sprites
00:59:01  <Brokkoli> yes.. newfrgs would be needed
00:59:07  <Brokkoli> grfs
00:59:14  <racetrack> I play my ds for a few minutes at a time, I'd never use it for a long gaming session
00:59:22  <Rubidium> dumber pathfinding is easy, just 'trash' npf and yapf
00:59:27  <racetrack> haha
00:59:31  <Brokkoli> yes
00:59:38  <Brokkoli> go back to the old dumb pathfinder
00:59:40  <Yexo> that also means that pbs signals no longer work
00:59:46  <Brokkoli> it worked... sometimes ;)
00:59:51  <racetrack> bogopathfinder .. just choose tracks at random and hope you stumble on the right station
00:59:56  <Yexo> I think trashing yapf is not as easy as it sounds
00:59:57  <Brokkoli> lol
01:00:07  <Brokkoli> pbs is not needed
01:00:22  <racetrack> doesn't need to be easy
01:00:30  <racetrack> maybe I'll try one day
01:00:56  <Rubidium> Yexo: pbs works fine with ntp
01:01:02  <Brokkoli> maybe wait for better consoles ;)
01:01:27  <Yexo> Rubidium: doesn't it use Yapf::FollowTrackT or something like that?
01:01:33  <Rubidium> okay, PBS uses some yapf code
01:01:41  <Rubidium> but that isn't the big bulk of yapf
01:01:55  <racetrack> naw thats the copout way. my ds has more grunt than whatever I had when I was playing tt in the beginning. I'm sure something fun could be made
01:02:24  <Rubidium> those templates are very effective in creating lots of binary code there
01:03:27  <Rubidium> also 'mmap-ing' the language file would save ~100 KiB
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01:03:45  <racetrack> ds has no mmu
01:03:51  <racetrack> oh
01:03:58  <racetrack> too specific
01:04:00  <racetrack> you load the rom
01:04:02  <racetrack> never mind me
01:04:04  * racetrack goes to lunch
01:05:19  <eMJay88> quick question, are trains stored as a single vehicle or are they a linked list of vehicles (each wagon linked to the next one)?
01:05:34  <Rubidium> the latter
01:05:41  <glx> memory pool and linked list
01:07:03  <glx> and to be exact it's a double linked list with cached vehicle head
01:07:47  <eMJay88> so each wagon points to the next (presumably, the one "behind" it) as well as the front (ie the engine)?
01:07:57  <Yexo> yes
01:08:36  <glx> next, previous and front
01:09:08  <eMJay88> oh so triple(ish) linked list
01:09:15  <Rubidium> where engine isn't always an engine
01:09:50  <eMJay88> in the case of depoted wagon chains?
01:11:48  <glx> yes
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04:49:43  * eMjay88 wonders if his boss will notice openTTD in a semitransparent window...
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06:33:13  <Forked> mornin
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06:37:58  <goodger> monring
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06:47:58  <dihedral> Rubidium, for the MinActiveClients.... that is an interesting fix.... would never have thought of something like that :-P
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07:07:33  <dihedral> if i start the client from the console, and want to 'force quit' it with strg+c, the game prompts me to confirm!!
07:07:37  <dihedral> in the window
07:08:22  <dihedral> if someone presses strg+c on the console, i am pretty sure they want to quit the app, and if they dont they should jolly well get used to that being the outcome of the key combination
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09:15:23  * petern ponders vservering mailman
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09:22:41  * DASPRiD pokes dih in the rips
09:23:40  <dihedral> rips????
09:23:43  <dihedral> whats that?
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09:24:28  <el_en> are you sure you want to even know?
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09:33:23  <TrueBrain> petern: how about removing mailman? It sucks :p
09:33:57  <TrueBrain> (annoying memory eating beast)
09:35:51  <petern> how about no?
09:37:24  <TrueBrain> I still wonder if there isn't a better alternative ...
09:39:20  <petern> mailman doesn't eat memory for me
09:39:38  <TrueBrain> 10 MiB per instance, it spawns 10 instances
09:39:44  <TrueBrain> 100 MiB for .. what exactly?!
09:39:52  <petern> not here
09:40:14  <TrueBrain> then I wonder what is wrong with this install :p
09:40:26  <petern> it's "only" 60MB here :p
09:40:30  <TrueBrain> lol!
09:40:37  <TrueBrain> still a damn lot for just a mailman :p
09:40:42  <petern> *shrug*
09:40:55  <TrueBrain> I have this new httpd running, which uses JUST 4 MiB
09:40:58  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD uses more :p
09:41:09  <petern> On a machine that otherwise only handles mail relaying, and has 2GB RAM. I'm not particularly worried.
09:41:15  <|Japa|> Format c:/
09:41:21  <TrueBrain> fair enough petern ;)
09:41:29  <|Japa|> always solves problems
09:42:40  <petern> lighty is 1.7MB on it :)
09:42:56  <Prof_Frink> del * /F /S /Q
09:42:58  <petern> it's only a 32bit machine of course, heh
09:43:04  <TrueBrain> petern: ours is 'slightly' more busy ;)
09:43:21  <petern> well, lighty is only on there for mailman's web interface
09:43:46  <petern> i do not mix services on servers :)
09:43:56  <TrueBrain> very smart :)
09:44:38  <petern> i see so many problems with LAMP servers :(
09:44:58  <TrueBrain> for good reason
09:45:03  <petern> and people trying to run incoming email with mysql lookups and outgoing email with mysql authentication etc all on one box...
09:45:39  <petern> someone DoSes a php/mysql website and everything stops as the mail server can't do mysql lookups :D
09:45:43  <TrueBrain> although all services of are in one VPS too (minus compile-farm, minus WT2, minus tournament stuff :p)
09:45:59  <petern> yup
09:46:07  <petern> but that's very specific
09:46:11  <TrueBrain> yup :)
09:46:16  <petern> it's not offering services to 3rd parties...
09:46:22  <dihedral> hello there TrueBrain :-)
09:46:23  <petern> and it's most vcs software
09:46:25  <petern> *mostly
09:46:35  <TrueBrain> I dislike solutions like Plesk and people putting 3000 customers on one box
09:47:46  <petern> depends
09:47:58  <petern> mixing all services together, definitely not
09:48:09  <petern> but 3000 users on a dedicated pop3/imap server is no problem
09:48:19  <TrueBrain> I meant the mixing together ;)
09:48:22  <petern> i know
09:48:45  <TrueBrain> I had to work with cyrus the other day ... what a crappy annoying idiotic software
09:48:49  <petern> lol
09:48:52  <petern> i just moved to it :p
09:48:56  <TrueBrain> WHY?!
09:49:00  <petern> because i like it
09:49:12  <TrueBrain> it has its own storage
09:49:15  <TrueBrain> own user management
09:49:22  <TrueBrain> I guess it works if you set it up like that :p
09:49:33  <TrueBrain> we needed to implement it over existing MTA and user-database ..
09:49:34  <petern> it doesn't have user management
09:49:41  <petern> it has mailboxes and sasl authentication
09:49:51  <TrueBrain> that is what I mean of course :p
09:49:57  <petern> i migrated from ancient uw-imap with system accounts
09:50:03  <TrueBrain> :s
09:50:06  <TrueBrain> now that is nasty ;)
09:50:08  <petern> yup
09:50:09  <petern> anyway
09:50:20  <petern> cyrus has its custom bis
09:50:21  <petern> *bits
09:50:30  <petern> but the actual email storage is just one file per email
09:50:32  <petern> a bit like, er, maildir...
09:50:36  <TrueBrain> I dislike that I need to pipe mail incoming via Postfix via lmtp to cyrus ...
09:50:45  <el_en> why not use the finnish alternative, dovecot.
09:50:54  <petern> so if your cyrus really goes tits up, it's not all lost.
09:50:55  <TrueBrain> el_en: guess what runs
09:51:07  <petern> well
09:51:12  <petern> i liked splitting services
09:51:24  <petern> so i don't have postfix running on the cyrus machines
09:51:34  <TrueBrain> the problem I had here: cyrus goes down for what reason what so ever
09:51:37  <TrueBrain> postfix still accepts the mail
09:51:38  <petern> delivery via network lmtp
09:51:45  <TrueBrain> and there is no way to ever get that mail in cyrus again without resending :p
09:51:51  <petern> huh?
09:51:56  <petern> cyrus goes down
09:51:58  <TrueBrain> (well, I guess postfix can be reconfigured to block in that case)
09:52:07  <petern> postfix accepts mail, postfix can't deliver to cyrus, postfix queues
09:52:16  <TrueBrain> the latter doesn't happen out-of-the-box
09:52:19  <petern> if it doesn't do that, you've done something wrong
09:52:20  <TrueBrain> it delivers to its own mbox stuff
09:52:29  <TrueBrain> debian postfox / cyrus install guide
09:52:40  <TrueBrain> but yeah, I am sure it is fixable .. just a bit weird ;)
09:53:05  <petern> i've never had an occurance of postfix picking a different delivery method just because one was down
09:53:12  <petern> it doesn't do it out of the box :)
09:53:23  <TrueBrain> I promise you, if you follow that 'official' guide, it does :)
09:53:30  <TrueBrain> took me a while to find the error .....
09:53:34  <petern> (actually postfix is on the cyrus machine, because cyrus can send out emails via sieve)
09:53:46  <petern> but it doesn't accept mails
09:53:55  <dihedral> write our own ^^
09:54:04  <TrueBrain> anyway, I like courier-imap and dovecot (latter for small, first for bigger)
09:54:08  <petern> i use dovecot on my own personal server
09:54:23  * dihedral prefers cyrus
09:54:33  <petern> because i couldn't be bothered setting up cyrus for it, heh
09:54:43  <TrueBrain> has 28 subdomains ... and I need to make a configure change in all of them .. hmm .. nasty :p
09:54:49  <petern> squirrelmail + avelsieve = <3
09:55:26  <petern> apparently there's a sieve plugin for thunderbird, but it needs an account registered to download it
09:55:30  <petern> which is lame
09:55:41  <TrueBrain> yup
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10:08:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15776 /trunk/Doxyfile: -Fix [DoxyGen]: Our project is called OpenTTD, not openttd (which looks very ugly)
10:08:37  *** Gekz [] has joined #openttd
10:10:57  * dihedral wonders what the executable is called
10:11:44  <dihedral> ^^
10:11:49  <Prof_Frink> GameGFX.exe/
10:12:01  <dihedral> why .exe??
10:12:08  <dihedral> that is soooo ugly ^^
10:12:11  <petern> cos it's an executable silly!
10:12:15  <petern> .com!
10:12:29  * |Japa| wants somebody to slave at TE for a while
10:12:40  <|Japa|> somebody meaning not me :P
10:12:45  <petern> i'd rather somebody started from scratch :p
10:12:58  <Prof_Frink> I want a pony.
10:13:30  * TrueBrain buys a pony for Prof_Frink
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10:13:46  <petern> pony car? ford mustang?
10:13:58  <dihedral> ^^
10:15:25  <petern> hmm
10:15:28  <Prof_Frink> £25.
10:15:29  <petern> they're a bit steep
10:15:48  <petern> '65 mustang, £51000
10:16:35  <Prof_Frink> And it's still american.
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10:17:10  <petern> it is
10:18:09  <Prof_Frink> I'd rather have something from Norfolk.
10:18:47  <petern> a lotus?
10:19:13  <Prof_Frink> What else is there in norfolk?
10:20:36  <petern> "leading edge" apparently
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10:32:06  <JapaMala> I wannt a tesla roadster
10:32:29  <Noldo> how much does it cost?
10:35:37  <JapaMala> about 100,000 $ USD
10:37:04  <JapaMala> last I checked anyways
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10:57:10  <TrueBrain> dear all .. we just switched to a new httpd at (cherokee instead of lighttpd)
10:57:15  <TrueBrain> I did my best to port the configuration 1-on-1
10:57:21  <TrueBrain> but please let me know anything that doens't work
11:03:24  <TrueBrain> most noticable change: urls changed (but old urls are nicely redirected)
11:09:21  <welshdragon> hmm
11:09:37  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: was browsing the wiki, seemed no issues
11:15:17  <TrueBrain> welshdragon: try it now again ;) Now the links are set correctly :)
11:15:18  <dihedral> congratulations on learning how to browse the wiki ^^
11:15:39  <dihedral> TrueBrain, nicely done ;-)
11:17:55  <TrueBrain> cherokee 'mmap's to files it is static serving
11:17:56  <TrueBrain> nice :)
11:19:15  <welshdragon> dihedral: thanks... i think
11:20:48  <welshdragon> anyway, is there a cargodest + infrastructure sharing  build yet?
11:22:57  <dihedral> yep! publicly available? dont no!
11:23:03  <dihedral> *know ^^
11:25:18  <Ammler> indeed, nice wiki urls now.
11:25:21  <petern> insent=4483
11:25:21  <petern> inreject=84893
11:25:22  <petern> hm
11:25:34  <petern> DNSBLs really work
11:25:41  <Ammler> welshdragon: aali has such builds uploaded, afaik
11:26:12  <welshdragon> Ammler: ok... any ideas where to look?
11:26:22  <Ammler> tt-forums?
11:26:45  <Ammler> on the "old" is thread or cargodest
11:27:26  <welshdragon> hmm, i\m using the new is
11:27:29  <welshdragon> :(
11:28:38  <Ammler> oh, there is no patch for that, but if you ask aali, he might make you one... :-)
11:29:22  <Ammler> I bet, he has already, just not published ;-)
11:31:09  <welshdragon> ok, thanks
11:36:38  <petern> one day, one day
11:37:14  <welshdragon> one day they will be in trunk
11:37:28  <petern> one day they'll be written cleanly
11:37:33  <petern> hmm
11:37:36  <petern> i'm being dumb
11:37:58  <petern> i want to select a few records and update a flag for each
11:38:05  <petern> with the minimum of sql
11:38:11  <petern> hmm
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11:41:25  <Rubidium> update X in Y limit 0, 5; ?
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11:59:50  <Ammler> petern: no hurry, we need some "exclusive" feature for wwottdgd ;-)
12:01:45  <Rubidium> Ammler: add copy-paste to all binaries
12:01:56  <Rubidium> don't forget to add it to the server binary though
12:04:36  <Ammler> well, you need c&p patch for disabling it :-)
12:05:02  <Ammler> that was the reason we added it to last wwottdgd pack
12:05:23  <Rubidium> if you review the diff you can at least find two ways to desync people who are using it
12:06:24  <Ammler> oh, nice idea, I would like to add that to the coop ps :-)
12:06:48  <Ammler> I am quite sure, nobody is using there there...
12:06:56  <Ammler> it*
12:07:47  <Rubidium> there's nobody on there so I can't check whether joined people have that patch
12:09:21  <Ammler> oh, you could do that also from a client?
12:09:49  <Rubidium> yup, one is client based and that can only kick people using the patch that join
12:10:08  <Rubidium> the other is server based and desyncs everyone with the patch who joins
12:11:16  <Rubidium> and the client based one requires you to have a modified client. Using the copy-paste patch is the easiest way to sufficiently modify the binary so you can cause the desyncs
12:15:26  <Rubidium> Ammler: the openttdcoop (blog) page is showing wrong information
12:15:38  <Ammler> Rubidium: about?
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12:16:04  <Rubidium> wrong link to the nightly; nightly.php doesn't exist; better link to
12:16:41  <Rubidium> furthermore according to the site 11 people are connected to the public server though and my client say that there are only 0 connected
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12:17:16  <Ammler> yeah
12:17:37  <Ammler> there are some troubles with Brians server, so he disabled all crontabs
12:17:42  <Ammler> cronjobs
12:18:14  <dihedral> lol
12:18:38  *** George3 is now known as George
12:22:20  <Ammler> hmm, those links seems to be in the templates...
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12:26:48  * TrueBrain likes Cherokee, this new httpd .. works smoothly! :)
12:27:09  <Ammler> Rubidium: fixed, thanks for report :-)
12:27:41  <Ammler> we use all irc commands, so nobody realized that yet. :-)
12:30:06  <TrueBrain> did you know, that 55% of our visitors uses FireFox? :)
12:30:18  <TrueBrain> even a few use Firefox 8.10 :p
12:30:21  <Rubidium> yes I did
12:30:38  <petern> silly ubuntu
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12:34:27  <Ammler> does opera still identify as Internet Explorer?
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12:39:01  <Darkvater> if you want toyes
12:43:24  <TrueBrain> oeh, noes, a Darkvater
12:43:32  <Darkvater> where? where?!
12:44:08  <TrueBrain> BEHIND YOU!
12:44:59  * Darkvater tries to say something as a huge axe strikes him from behind sending his head spinning off
12:45:05  <Darkvater> grmbl
12:45:14  <TrueBrain> twisted mind you have my friend ..
12:45:27  <Darkvater> mmpf
12:45:37  <Rubidium> more a bodyless mind
12:46:30  <Darkvater> ./mode -head Darkvater
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13:02:34  <dihedral> can we consider people joining with the default nick (Player) a bug....
13:02:53  <dihedral> and fix a bug that exists in (and all versions before) 0.7.0-RC1? :-P
13:05:11  <Ammler> adding a client name generator like the town name :-)
13:05:40  <dihedral> no
13:07:00  <Ammler> username from system?
13:07:18  <Darkvater> Ammler: lol
13:07:29  <Ammler> hehe
13:07:35  <Darkvater> so now e'll have a zillion players named Administrator instead of Player
13:08:06  <Darkvater> that helps ..
13:08:08  <Rubidium> so you're saying I should change my nick?
13:08:21  <Rubidium> (and login name)
13:08:58  <Ammler> well, I assume, the problem is how to handle "empty" client name.
13:09:29  *** KenjiE20 is now known as Guest926
13:09:29  *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@] has joined #openttd
13:09:39  <dihedral> Ammler, or forbid certain client names from ever joining the server ^^
13:09:41  <Darkvater> yeah, let's call them Guests instead of Player
13:09:44  *** player [] has joined #openttd
13:10:00  <dihedral> [badnicks] section in the config :-D
13:10:22  <Ammler> dihedral: it is more friendly to ask "Players" to rename then just ban them, imo.
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13:10:30  * player votes for adding dih and dihedral
13:11:03  <dihedral> Rubidium, try joining my server with the default nick ;-)
13:11:17  <dihedral> Ammler, i never said ban
13:11:40  <dihedral> they can get an error or a prompt or something ^^
13:11:55  <Ammler> which they get on your nightly, iirc.
13:12:09  <dihedral> nope
13:12:20  <dihedral> they get a move to specs, a message and a kick 5 seconds after that
13:12:48  <Ammler> wow, 5 secs is short to rename :-)
13:13:13  <Ammler> specially for a newbie, which most of the "players" are...
13:13:26  *** maristo [] has joined #openttd
13:13:40  <Ammler> but moving to specs is a nice idea.
13:13:45  *** player [] has quit []
13:13:48  <Gekz> It would be helpful if you clicked multiplayer and it popped up in the middle of the screen with a name box
13:13:50  <Darkvater> 5 seconds?
13:14:05  <Gekz> for the first one
13:14:07  <Gekz> first time*
13:14:34  <Ammler> Gekz: or just if cleint_name is empty.
13:14:46  <Gekz> yes
13:14:50  <Belugas> toum te doum
13:14:51  <Gekz> that's what I mean to say
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13:15:24  <Ammler> bim bala bim
13:15:39  <dihedral> Ammler: they dont need to rename in 5 seconds, they just need to read the message ;-)
13:16:06  <dihedral> and if they dont rename themselves, servers still have the client_name command :-D
13:16:11  * dihedral likes that one
13:16:39  <Darkvater> the if client-name empty() is a good suggestion
13:16:52  <dihedral> Darkvater, in that case the server will set it to Player
13:17:01  <Darkvater> although I have never seen that in a game
13:17:02  <dihedral> and that is the default value on the clients also
13:17:10  <Darkvater> you always get a default name before joining
13:17:38  <Darkvater> so the real value of he suggestion hovers somewhere around ~0 for me
13:17:38  <dihedral> yes, but on some games you can specify that they are not allowed in the game ^^
13:18:05  <Ammler> Darkvater: many games ask you for creating a "profile" the first time...
13:18:11  <dihedral> <- Darkvater
13:18:22  <Ammler> specially if you join servers with...
13:19:24  <Ammler> dihedral: and to which name do you rename then?
13:20:05  <Ammler> well, at coop, we could use the irc nick
13:20:09  <dihedral> i just rename if i dont like their nick (i.e. if it's something offensive)
13:21:29  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
13:21:29  <Ammler> ah, so it is a manual task
13:21:30  <dihedral> and then i try to automate that with ap+ ^^
13:21:37  <Ammler> he :-)
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13:30:46  <JapaMala> you could have it take the current username as default, and have everybody named administrator :P
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13:33:23  <eQualizer> Can anyone suggest a good NoAI?
13:33:47  <glx> admiralai
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13:38:42  <Ammler> Japa, not everybody is using windows, and the windows I use does also support "user mode".
13:39:04  <dihedral> so - then name them root ^^
13:39:07  <dihedral> :-D
13:39:33  <Rubidium> Ammler: Windows NT (at least 2000+) supports multiple desktops yet noone seems to be using it
13:39:34  <Ammler> he, would be funny, to see someone joining as root :-)
13:40:01  <glx> Ammler: but we forgot to implement the backdoor
13:40:04  <dihedral> Ammler, seen it happen with irc clients
13:41:57  <Ammler> well, I have to admit, that I don't use user Administrator on windows, but I always add teh user to the admin group ;-)
13:42:07  <dihedral> Ammler: talking of irc clients, have you ever taken a look at xchat?
13:42:40  <Ammler> hmm, on GNOME times, yes :-)
13:42:51  <glx> Ammler: everybody do that
13:42:55  <Ammler> XeryusTC: is using it...
13:43:25  <welshdragon> dihedral: i use that when i'm on my pc
13:43:32  <glx> though on vista it's less required
13:43:47  <Rubidium> what's a pc?
13:43:54  <Rubidium> an iMac is also a pc
13:44:02  <KenjiE20> "I'm a PC"
13:44:05  <welshdragon> true
13:44:29  <Ammler> I guess, you can only setup a windows pc with non admin users, if you know, there is no other program to install later...
13:44:52  <glx> there's always something to install ;)
13:45:18  <glx> and most installers needs admin rights even when user rights are enough
13:45:32  <Ammler> indeed, so nonadmin on win is only a office thing, unuseable for private...
13:46:39  <glx> if installer is a good one it writes only in HKCU but most use HKLM
13:46:44  <Brokkoli> you dont have to install every day
13:48:11  <glx> even worse msvc 2005 needs to be run as admin if you want to debug
13:49:05  <Darkvater> glx: oh?
13:49:20  <glx> for at least
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13:49:22  <Darkvater> I never had that and I'm using XP as a simple user, not even power
13:49:35  <glx> maybe it's vista only too
13:49:56  <Ammler> glx: makes code review adventurely :-)
13:50:50  <Ammler> do you run it in a vm then?
13:51:07  <glx> I guess it's because it needs to start a web server
13:52:18  <dihedral> Rubidium, an iMac is not a pc!
13:52:32  <Rubidium> dihedral: and why isn't it?
13:52:44  <glx> a cpc is a pc ;)
13:52:55  <dihedral> Rubidium, it's an intosh
13:52:56  <glx> a colour one :)
13:53:10  <dihedral> :-P
13:53:41  <Ammler> well, since they use intel, they lost that spirit...
13:54:00  <glx> but not the higher cost
13:54:18  <Rubidium> dihedral: so you're claiming that you can share an iMac with multiple persons working on it at the same time?
13:54:19  <Ammler> they are just expensive pcs anymore ;-)
13:54:49  <glx> well they don't have a bios
13:55:26  <el_en> Ammler: where can i buy a pc that is the size of mac mini, and is cheaper?
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13:55:40  <dihedral> Rubidium, of course multiple people can work on a mac at the same time
13:56:09  <Rubidium> right... an iMac only has one screen
13:56:09  <el_en> Ammler: and has same or better specs
13:56:12  <dihedral> glx, open firmware :-)
13:56:20  <el_en> dihedral: EFI
13:56:27  <glx> it's not a BIOS
13:56:38  <glx> that's why installing windows is not "easy"
13:56:40  <Ammler> we used an IMac quite a long time as webserver
13:57:09  <|Japa|> just install mac-os on a cheaper PC, simple
13:57:11  <Rubidium> and I don't think adding ten mouses and keyboards via usb hubs will make it possible for 10 people to simultaniously edit a document
13:57:29  <glx> |Japa|: it's not "easy" either ;)
13:57:31  <el_en> |Japa|: i think you just missed a lot of points.
13:57:33  <Rubidium> installing windows is easier than installing osx
13:57:56  <Rubidium> windows 'just' doesn't crash during loading it's installer
13:58:03  <el_en> Rubidium: english only, *mice
13:58:35  <|Japa|> well, me being the loneley guy I am, I'm more interested in one person using two comps at once
13:59:40  <dihedral> Rubidium, connecting multiple mice / keyboards is not what i understand under working simultaneously on a system
13:59:57  <dihedral> rather though remote connections e.g. ssh? :-P
14:00:15  <Rubidium> dihedral: then Windows doesn't run on PCs either
14:00:55  <Rubidium> cause you can work on those with multiple people at the same time using e.g. telnet or remote desktop
14:01:38  <Rubidium> but seriously all consumer computers made by Apple are PCs
14:01:59  <dihedral> Rubidium, where was my definition that mac was not a pc based on it being usable by multiple people?
14:02:06  <dihedral> i said it's an "intosh"
14:02:18  <dihedral> you were the one coming along with 'can multiple people work on it'
14:03:52  <Rubidium> dihedral: it's defined in the dictionary in that manner
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14:04:07  <dihedral> you completely missed my pun :-(
14:05:25  <Rubidium> ah well, I dislike Apple for their VERY VERY close merge of software and hardware
14:05:45  <Rubidium> e.g. the on-off button is operated/handled by the OS
14:06:40  <dihedral> and where does windows not do handle that signal?
14:06:45  <Rubidium> which becomes evident in cases you thoroughly crash your Apple with a screensaver and you can't turn it off in any manner that doesn't mean removing the power cord and waiting till be battery runs out
14:07:34  <dihedral> when my mac crashed pressing the powerbutton for a few seconds always solved it
14:07:41  <Rubidium> dihedral: windows gets a notification, but it's the motherboard that actually shuts down your computer after pressing the on-off button for 4 seconds
14:07:42  <dihedral> and that was a total of 3 times in the last 4 years
14:07:43  <[wito]> Rubidium: I don't know what machine you have that problem on, but all of my apples still respect the power-button in 6 seconds: die rule
14:07:43  *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@] has joined #openttd
14:08:02  <[wito]> Of course, it doesn't work with your keyboard power button
14:08:07  <dihedral> ^^
14:08:14  <[wito]> but all the machines (I've come accross) also have a hardware button
14:08:36  <[wito]> (with the possible exception of the 1st. gen iMacs)
14:09:10  <Rubidium> ofcourse when that crash issue happened I was 'only' a newbie in the MacOS scene
14:09:23  <dihedral> that was how many years ago?
14:09:26  <Rubidium> and was forbidden access to that computer after that crash
14:09:26  <dihedral> pre os x?
14:09:30  <[wito]> It's usually a brushed steel button on the front or a white button on the back
14:09:46  <Rubidium> don't know how long ago it was exactly anymore
14:10:18  * Rubidium likes the idea of Apple to make the batteries unremovable too
14:10:19  <dihedral> os x pops up a window (after opacing the rest of the screen) saying that it's crashed and you need to hold down the power button for x seconds
14:10:37  * dihedral can remove his battery quite easily
14:10:48  <dihedral> i just need a coin ^^
14:11:00  <Rubidium> yeah, but with those aluminium unibodies that's going to be a problem
14:11:32  <dihedral> i thought the laptops had the same mechanism
14:11:44  <dihedral> the new laptops compared to the old Gx generation
14:11:50  <dihedral> "old"
14:13:10  <Rubidium> requiring unscrewing 13 Philips screws isn't something that is consumer proof
14:13:48  <dihedral> no ^^
14:13:54  <glx> and murphy says the last screw will be destroyed ;)
14:13:57  <dihedral> but then their batteries do last longer ^^
14:14:01  <Rubidium> especially when the battery producer comes with an errata about the battery possibly exploding and the airlines forcing you to remove the battery from your laptop before boarding the plane
14:14:22  <dihedral> i had one of those batteries... now i miss it ^^
14:14:26  <dihedral> it had more power :-P
14:15:26  <Rubidium> and I don't think that the airport security lets you into the secure area with a screwdriver, so it needs to go into your non-carry-on luggage
14:15:54  <|Japa|> ad with audio on the winamp now playing page = FAIL
14:16:29  <Rubidium> so you can't use your laptop after checking in your luggage
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14:16:53  <Rubidium> that's going to be really fun when it happens ;)
14:17:13  <dihedral> my lappy has been with me on planes many times ^^
14:17:21  <dihedral> incl. it's airport extreme card
14:17:31  <el_en> dihedral: english only, *its
14:18:09  <dihedral> just wanted to know if you were paying attention ^^
14:18:17  <|Japa|> nah, the last screw is not destroyed, iit get's instantly warped into a quantum singularity on removal
14:18:34  <el_en> |Japa|: english only, *gets
14:19:02  <Rubidium> dihedral: its nice when someone pays attention, isn't it?
14:19:33  <el_en> (i'm not going to notice that as Rubidium did it on purpose)
14:19:50  <dihedral> el_en, you missed, "iit"
14:20:35  <el_en> dihedral: i assumed it's a simple typo. not dangerous.
14:20:39  <dihedral> Rubidium, sure its nice, but it look's like your trying to tease our poor el_en
14:20:57  <|Japa|> gah
14:21:03  <Rubidium> oh, is he around again?
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14:21:38  <DASPRiD> he's pretty round
14:21:46  <Rubidium> let's put an apo'strophe before each 's to 'signal that there i's a 's coming
14:22:04  <thingwath> pre'signal
14:22:51  <Rubidium> it''s nice to do, e'specially in when doing it to the extreme's
14:23:18  <dihedral> i think el_en is gonna 'suppre's's any comment's now
14:23:38  <dihedral> uhhh...... i mi's'sed one.... *i's
14:23:38  <glx> you failed
14:23:42  * dihedral 'smile's
14:24:14  <dihedral> glx, actually i did not, i wa's ju'st looking for word's with two e's'se's in them :-D
14:24:47  <glx> hmm maybe I'll add a script for taht
14:24:48  <Rubidium> mi's'si's'sippi
14:25:55  <glx> test
14:26:07  <TrueBrain> FAILURED
14:26:20  <glx> te'st
14:26:43  <dihedral> i want to use such a auto-replacement too
14:26:50  <dihedral> and mine just failed as well
14:26:51  <glx> 'stupid language it''s ('str, to ,from)
14:27:15  <TrueBrain> glx: that really i's 'stupid ye's ...
14:27:20  <TrueBrain> what language i's that?
14:27:28  <glx> kvirc 'script
14:27:32  <TrueBrain> 'sucks
14:27:33  <TrueBrain> DOH!
14:27:48  * dihedral can write plugins in tcl ^^
14:28:00  <TrueBrain> hmmm .. I wonder how to write thi's:
14:28:08  <TrueBrain> 's/'s/''s/g
14:28:09  <TrueBrain> ghehe
14:29:52  <petern> oh dear
14:30:01  <TrueBrain> ye's darling?
14:30:08  <petern> liquid lunch
14:30:40  <glx> test
14:31:01  <glx> grr I failed to filter on chan name
14:31:08  <TrueBrain> poor glx
14:34:11  <glx> te'st
14:34:14  <glx> work's :)
14:34:17  <el_en> r u 'sure u don't wan't 'to prefix all 't's a's well?
14:34:19  <TrueBrain> concratz :)
14:34:52  <glx> I could remove 'space's too
14:35:11  <TrueBrain> 'soyouwanttotalklikethi'sor'something?
14:35:19  <TrueBrain> nowthatwouldbeveryhardtoreadforany'saneper'son
14:36:27  <dihedral> 'i' 't'h'i'n'k' 'i' 'w'a'n't' 't'o' 'p'r'e'f'i'x' 'e'v'e'r'y' 'c'h'a'r' 'i' 't'y'p'e'!'
14:36:33  <petern> thi's get's u's nowhere
14:36:45  <glx> indeed :)
14:36:58  <petern> (some people *do* write get's :/)
14:37:27  <dihedral> set and get's fun
14:37:36  <glx> lol
14:37:49  <Belugas> wellwhynotremoveallspacesthen
14:37:59  * TrueBrain hugs Belugas
14:38:01  <Rubidium> petern: or sai'd or saied or sayed
14:38:01  <glx> dihedral: 're
14:38:29  <TrueBrain> so: get's fun
14:38:30  <TrueBrain> :p
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14:39:17  <Rubidium> wh nt rmv ll vwls?
14:39:41  <Belugas> wrkfnbm
14:39:43  <TrueBrain> why not all just shut up and go do something useful? :p
14:39:53  <dihedral> vwls nd spcs
14:39:58  <dihedral> ps
14:40:03  <dihedral> vwlsndspcs
14:40:25  <glx> that's scriptable too ;)
14:40:25  <el_en> that must be czech
14:40:26  <dihedral> TrBrn:plythgmewths
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14:40:36  <TrueBrain> dihedral: 'e' :p
14:40:36  <Rubidium> ooooa
14:40:55  <dihedral> awww... shoot - i lost
14:41:05  <TrueBrain> now go stand in a corner
14:41:38  * dihedral steps into the corner of the room :-(
14:41:43  <dihedral> *sniff*
14:41:46  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: that's lame; now he may chose a corner he likes
14:41:57  <petern> So, yeah, English only?
14:42:08  <Rubidium> like CORNER_INVALID
14:42:11  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yeah .. the benefit of being the first who loses :p
14:42:32  <petern> Oh, I see, this whole 'conversation' started with a get's :/
14:42:34  <dihedral> ptrn: ppl ll f sddn mks sns
14:42:54  <petern> Pardon?
14:43:03  <glx> hmm I don't get it
14:43:46  <dihedral> "petern: ppl all of a sudden makes sense"
14:43:56  <glx> oh
14:43:58  <dihedral> ppl = removed vowels
14:43:58  <petern> makes?
14:44:04  <petern> oh
14:44:17  <petern> i see
14:44:19  <el_en> how about a Tolkien-style English Only rule; only germanic words allowed, not french and latin?
14:44:33  <dihedral> arsch
14:44:34  <dihedral> ^^
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14:45:06  <[wito]> Oh my.
14:45:35  <el_en> I've been taught that the Rohirrim did not use any french/latin-origin words in the book(s).
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15:08:03  <pavel1269> hello
15:11:08  <Belugas> damned... i'm forced to install perl for a bug to fix :(
15:14:44  <DASPRiD> haha
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15:53:44  <TrueBrain> I wonder ... did anyone ever notice that the big image at is different every day of the week? :p
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15:56:26  <[wito]> the one under the logo?
15:56:34  <TrueBrain> under the big logo, yes
15:57:11  <[wito]> that is to say, the banner
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16:00:07  <dihedral> TrueBrain, did you forget that i noticed that before the page was live?
16:00:17  <TrueBrain> dihedral: did you forget I was not asking you? :p
16:00:29  <TrueBrain> dihedral: shouldn't you be going home or something? :p
16:00:34  <dihedral> :-(
16:00:37  <petern> did you forget that nobody cares?
16:00:39  * dihedral sobs
16:00:47  <dihedral> ^^
16:00:48  <petern> 4pm... no home time yet :(
16:00:55  <dihedral> i am at home :-P
16:01:03  <TrueBrain> petern: that is not a nice thing to say :(
16:01:05  <|Japa|> did you guys forget that it's : here?
16:01:10  <|Japa|> >.<
16:01:17  * |Japa| needs a new keyboard
16:01:35  <petern> it's : here, eh?
16:01:58  <dihedral> or its? :-P
16:03:13  <|Japa|> it's 9:30 but the keyboard I type on don't have working numbers
16:03:16  <|Japa|> pm
16:03:29  <petern> doesn't
16:04:40  <|Japa|> is currently lacking
16:04:45  <|Japa|> happy?
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16:19:11  <[wito]> eww 12 hr clock
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16:22:07  <|Japa|> as far as I'm concerned, it's eww digital
16:23:20  <[wito]> wut?
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16:23:43  <[wito]> digital <-> analog; 12hr clock <-> 24hr clock
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16:24:02  <|Japa|> I can't type analog
16:24:11  <[wito]> you have digital 12hr clocks and 24hr analog watches
16:24:17  <|Japa|> any typing is automatically digital
16:25:16  <|Japa|> as for twenty four hour, matter of what your comfortable with
16:25:18  <Yexo> non-digital typing:
16:25:26  <|Japa|> I have to convert in my head
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16:34:19  <Yexo> TrueBrain: did you change anything related to the wiki lately?
16:34:23  <Yexo> 1. I can't logout anymore
16:34:30  <Yexo> 2. It's impossible to create a new account
16:34:50  <Yexo> 3. IE reports scripting errors on every page, it didn't do that a few days ago
16:35:58  <TrueBrain> Yexo: as I said, there is a new httpd serving the pages ;)
16:36:00  <TrueBrain> let me check
16:36:06  <glx> logout fail confirmed
16:37:07  <TrueBrain> try it now
16:37:22  <Yexo> it works now
16:37:40  <Yexo> the errors in IE are gone too
16:37:46  <TrueBrain> IE sucks anyway
16:38:17  <Yexo> now the links in the box on the left (Main page/Community portal/Current events/etc.) are broken
16:38:36  <glx> hmm it does work with IETab
16:38:37  <Yexo> every link seems broken
16:38:47  <TrueBrain> mediawiki is broken :(
16:39:16  <petern> lol
16:39:17  <petern> nice job
16:39:18  <Yexo> glx: can you follow any link in IE(tab)?
16:39:35  <TrueBrain> it doesn't allow removing the 'index.php' part without .. well .. fucking up :p
16:40:06  <glx> hmm it seems my ie is broken :/
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16:42:14  <glx> ok restarted ff and now ie works :)
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16:43:03  <TrueBrain> k .. a dirty hack
16:43:05  <TrueBrain> but it should work now
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16:43:49  <TrueBrain> working might not be the correct word to descrive this ..
16:44:35  <glx> with ietab each link adds a /
16:44:43  <TrueBrain> glx: has nothing to do with ietab
16:44:51  <glx> yes it's ie
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16:44:57  <TrueBrain> ..... okay, if you say so
16:45:08  <Yexo> glx: I had the same with ff, but now it's gone
16:45:12  <TrueBrain> it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact I just told mediawiki to do that ...
16:45:18  <TrueBrain> sigh
16:45:21  <Yexo> and I can't reproduce it with ie either
16:45:24  <glx> indeed it's ok now
16:45:39  <TrueBrain> anyway, problem description: mediawiki makes a link to, say, Main_Page like: /Main_Page
16:45:45  <TrueBrain> those links are prefixed with 'wgScript'
16:45:49  <TrueBrain> normally that is 'index.php'
16:45:55  <TrueBrain> I wanted to remove 'index.php'
16:46:01  <TrueBrain> euh, '/index.php'
16:46:09  <TrueBrain> so instead of /index.php/Main_Page
16:46:13  <TrueBrain> it should be /Main_Page
16:46:18  <TrueBrain> but now links like ?login
16:46:24  <TrueBrain> become /Main_Page?login, instead of /?login
16:46:35  <TrueBrain> so .. I added the '/' instead of the '/index.php'
16:46:39  <TrueBrain> but now the link is //Main_Page
16:46:45  <TrueBrain> which is seen as http://Main_Page/
16:46:46  <TrueBrain> :s
16:46:57  <TrueBrain> so mediawiki is broken by design :p
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16:47:32  <Belugas> don't you like it to receive an email requesting for opinion about a possible feature, and to see that request in the forums as well?
16:47:46  <TrueBrain> Belugas: I don't like emails :p
16:48:05  <glx> I can't login
16:48:22  <TrueBrain> glx: care reading above? might give you the reason why ..
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16:52:13  <TrueBrain> @kick Mortal come back when your connection is stable
16:52:13  *** Mortal was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [come back when your connection is stable]
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16:52:23  <TrueBrain> @kban Mortal 30 come back when your connection is stable
16:52:24  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
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16:53:36  <glx> now it's totally dead :)
16:53:54  <TrueBrain> glx: maybe you can give useful input, as maybe a suggestion how to fix the situation above? :p
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16:55:06  <glx> it seems to work correctly now
16:55:18  <TrueBrain> long live undocumented features!
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16:56:24  <TrueBrain> Yexo: can you confirm?
16:56:30  <Yexo> yes, works fine now
16:56:47  <glx> logout/login and no index.php :)
16:57:00  <TrueBrain> gna! And that all within the LocalSettings.php
16:57:02  <TrueBrain> lol
16:57:45  <TrueBrain> hmm .. the https version only fails ..
16:57:47  <TrueBrain> grr
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17:08:34  <TrueBrain> glx / Yexo: still working as expected?
17:09:11  <Yexo> yes\
17:09:23  <glx> yes
17:09:36  <TrueBrain> <- can you also check that, if I didn't miss something obvious?
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17:10:14  <Yexo> works fine too
17:10:17  <petern> nope
17:10:23  <petern> it removes the wiki/ part
17:10:33  <TrueBrain> petern: indeed .. but not always :s
17:10:40  <petern> left menu is fine, content is not
17:11:51  <TrueBrain> I thought they built from the same variable ... clearly I am wrong :p
17:12:10  <petern> you'd think so wouldn't you...
17:12:11  <glx> secure works
17:12:27  <glx> (after I remembered my password :)
17:14:21  <TrueBrain> let me guess .... collision in memcache  ....
17:16:03  <TrueBrain> oh jolly ....
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17:22:37  <TrueBrain> okay .. if the cache of your browsers expire, it should now work correctly on both secure as on wiki :)
17:22:41  <TrueBrain> petern: can you confirm that for me?
17:24:10  <petern> the links work
17:24:14  <petern> i've not tried logging in at all
17:24:26  <TrueBrain> the links is what I cared about :)
17:24:28  <TrueBrain> tnx!
17:26:19  <TrueBrain> k, let me know if there are any other problems :)
17:37:10  <frosch123> btw. wouldn't it be useful if the "Donations" link on the wiki would link to the usual donation page, instead of the duplicate on the wiki
17:42:25  <Belugas> can anyone kick prodigit big time?
17:42:28  <Belugas> such a wimp
17:42:33  <Belugas> helllo frosch123
17:42:55  <frosch123> afternoon belugas :)
17:44:02  <Ammler> just wondering, why do you use a host "secure" for ssl and not *
17:45:36  <Ammler> (doesn't cacert allow wildcard certs?)
17:45:58  <TinoDidriksen> The usual excuse is that wildcard certs are expensive, but seems it's a self-signed cert anyway so wouldn't matter.
17:46:27  <KingJ> CACert allows wildcards, i've used one myself
17:46:28  <Ammler> no, it isn't
17:47:23  <Ammler> TinoDidriksen: but casert are ususally not installed on the most browsers.
17:48:14  <TinoDidriksen> Indeed, including latest Firefox.
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17:48:54  <Ammler> that is quite sad...
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17:49:38  * frosch123 enjoys prodigit's topic :)
17:49:50  <TinoDidriksen> So one has to click 4-5 times to ever see the actual site with such a cert, same as with self-signed ones.
17:53:52  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I think that would be useful
17:54:30  <TrueBrain> wildcards in certs do not truly exist .. it is more abuse
17:54:38  <TrueBrain> but we have a cert for all ssl domains
17:54:55  <frosch123> TrueBrain: then it is your turn, I do not seem to have the rights for that
17:54:56  <TrueBrain> we just rather avoid using SSN or what is it called .. as not all browsers use that
17:55:02  <TrueBrain> frosch123: neither do I :(
17:55:39  <TrueBrain> I can't type ....
17:55:45  <TrueBrain> s/all sll domains/all domains/
17:55:54  <TrueBrain> s/use that/support that/
17:56:04  <Ammler> TinoDidriksen: cacert is quite common for opensouce sites, so if you would install the authority cert, you would be fine
17:57:53  <Ammler> TrueBrain: but those browsers support virtual domains?
17:57:55  <TrueBrain> either way, works fine
17:58:07  <TrueBrain> Ammler: virtual ssl domains is MUCH MORE new than HTTP/1.1 is ..
17:58:48  <Ammler> hmm, I guess, we don't speak about the same :-)
17:59:18  <Ammler> well, nvm. was just wondering...
17:59:59  <TrueBrain> I wonder about what you wonder, as https works on all domains :p
18:01:17  <Ammler> hehe, forwards ;-)
18:01:31  <TrueBrain> I believe only bananas isn't in the certificate yet
18:01:36  <TrueBrain> but that happens at next renew
18:02:03  <Ammler> but if the forward works, why wouldn't it work without "secure"
18:02:26  <TrueBrain> it would; we just choose to use this convention
18:02:30  <TrueBrain> much easier and much more clear
18:02:40  <TrueBrain> if your url is, you are over a TLS connection
18:02:49  <TrueBrain> (smtp, imap, http, .......)
18:03:46  <petern> ammler talks of wildcard ssl
18:03:55  <TrueBrain> useless things to have
18:03:59  <TrueBrain> like wildcard dns entries
18:04:04  <TrueBrain> or wildcard (catchall) emails
18:04:11  <TinoDidriksen> Wildcard makes life easy.
18:04:22  <TrueBrain> makes you lazy
18:04:51  <TinoDidriksen> Catchall email makes it even easier...I enjoy signing up to sites as instead of having to use + notation.
18:05:16  <petern> catch-all email is great for getting spam
18:05:27  <TrueBrain> spammer will thank you TinoDidriksen
18:06:55  <TinoDidriksen> I have good filters, so never bothered me.
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18:07:38  <Ammler> TinoDidriksen: I forwarded * to my gmail account
18:08:07  <Ammler> after some time, blocked my mailserver because of too much spam. :-)
18:08:45  <TinoDidriksen> And wildcard DNS is lovely. Makes managing subdomains much easier...set a vhost to load X.domain.tld from public_html/X/ and people are happy. Only www needs special treatment that way.
18:09:09  <TrueBrain> it indeed takes so much time to add an entry in your DNS table .. lol :)
18:09:12  <TrueBrain> as I said: lazy!
18:09:42  <TinoDidriksen> It's easy to add. Not so fun to wait for it to propagate.
18:09:53  <TrueBrain> new entries are instant
18:09:59  <TrueBrain> else you need to get a real DNS service
18:10:02  <TrueBrain> (I can offer you one ;))
18:10:44  <petern> (and don't use the propagate 'myth'amongst techies)
18:12:51  *** MrFrans [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:13:25  <TinoDidriksen> I use - best service I've ever had. Anyway, wildcarding makes life easier. Why spend time managing when you can set it up once and have it Just Work for near eternity thereafter?
18:13:44  <TrueBrain> I hate repeating myself, but: lazy!
18:14:15  * petern plays with code::blocks
18:14:16  <TinoDidriksen> It's all about being lazy...that's what we do - find ways to be lazy. Disguised as efficiency, but still.
18:14:41  * petern 's custom web interface for dns is lazy, but still...
18:14:48  <TrueBrain> TinoDidriksen: I've been doing the job of sysop for years now .. after a while you notice it is not as efficient as you might think ;)
18:15:14  * petern remembers the days when he had to edit configs on several dns servers for just one change
18:15:19  <TrueBrain> has 25 subdomains .. wildcards makes that a bit ... euh ... untransparent ;)
18:15:28  <TrueBrain> petern: hehe :) The good new days ;)
18:16:09  <petern> i prefer my web interface to be honest
18:16:48  <TinoDidriksen> Worked fine for me for the past 8 years. If I want to use a new subdomain I just create the folder and start using it; no need to fiddle with DNS unless I want it on another IP, which is very rare.
18:17:19  <TrueBrain> oh, why do I bother .. I talk to you again in a few years, see if you still think so :)
18:18:38  *** tkjacobsen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:18:45  <Ammler> TinoDidriksen: how does that work? = or ?
18:19:03  <petern> that would work however you set up your web server
18:19:13  <TrueBrain> I think Ammler doesn't understand ;)
18:19:32  <TinoDidriksen> In my case, sub.domain.tld is served from that user's public_html/sub/
18:19:37  <petern> most "subdomains" (i call them host names) that i use are not for web serving...
18:19:37  <TinoDidriksen> Except www.
18:20:56  <Ammler> TrueBrain: well, no need, it is quite useless, imo.
18:21:25  <TrueBrain> you?
18:21:29  <TrueBrain> or why else you say it to me?
18:21:57  <Ammler> I am answering you :-)
18:22:10  <TrueBrain> you consider something useless you don't understand
18:22:13  <TrueBrain> now that is .. useless :p
18:22:40  <Ammler> I am having subdomains redirected to subfolders of maindomain...
18:22:53  <TinoDidriksen> That would be horrible for most of my work...
18:22:54  <Ammler> !s/am/mean/
18:23:16  <TrueBrain> .. no .. that would be useless and horrible indeed ;) :p
18:23:55  <TinoDidriksen> sub.domain.tld does not have to equal domain.tld/sub - .htaccess or other things can interfere with that, and behavior of sites may differ depending on whether they think they're in the root or not.
18:25:52  <thingwath> how is it different from having just domain.tld/sub?
18:26:25  <TrueBrain> use subdomains where they are for, or don't use them at all :)
18:27:38  <TinoDidriksen> Scoping of cookies, scripts, paths, etc...lots of differences in behavior.
18:28:09  <Ammler> hmm, cookies, indeed.
18:28:34  <Ammler> that is something, not working on our server, I suspect.
18:30:02  <TinoDidriksen> Development of a new app designed to be served from the root of a domain, etc. Lots of use cases for subdomains where subfolders just won't do as easily.
18:32:20  <TrueBrain> anyway, is simular to domein.tld/sub I guess .. works relative well for most projects, not for all ;) (they demand to be in the root)
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18:37:25  <eQualizer> !
18:37:49  <eQualizer> 0.7.0-RC1 crashed when I tried to save.
18:37:49  <TrueBrain> @
18:37:59  <eQualizer> Something about missing TTD files :E
18:42:23  <Forked> "something"? =p
18:42:56  <eQualizer> I just hit Okay and restarted OpenTTD.
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18:49:45  <Yexo> eQualizer: most likely a dup of FS#2742, can you upload your crash.dmp somewhere (assuming you use windows)?
18:50:01  <eQualizer> I'm on Mac.
18:50:49  <Yexo> did you click on the tiny grey bar betweenthe file list and the input box with the filename?
18:51:17  <eQualizer> I'm not 100% sure, but could be.
18:59:56  <TrueBrain> clicking on a FS# link in finally works :)
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19:04:27  <glx> nice :)
19:04:44  <TrueBrain> maybeit is more a fact of finally took the time to .. but who cares
19:04:44  <glx> it used to link to trac items
19:04:55  <TrueBrain> it still does ;) Which has a httpd redirect on it now :p
19:05:32  <TrueBrain> hmmm ... I am out of drinks .. sucks ..
19:05:37  <glx> I don't care how done if it works ;)
19:05:44  <glx> +it's
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19:30:33  <pavel1269> _age_cargo_skip_counter is counted even if train is still in station ... right?
19:31:46  <ecke> is there any option to allow autoreplace GEC Class 91 with GEC-A "Eurostar" when freight train?
19:33:39  <Yexo> put all freight train in the same group and replace the engine for that group only
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19:38:34  <ecke> Yexo is there some server settings or something much easier than moving 60 trains to one group one by one?
19:39:21  <Yexo> if you trains have shared orders, put one of themin the new group and use the "Move all shared order-vehicles here" <- that option is named something else, but you get what I mean
19:42:08  <ecke> Yexo
19:42:28  *** FransCharming [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:42:32  <Yexo> it's under "manage list"
19:43:06  <Sacro> wtf
19:43:10  <Sacro> 91 hauled freight?
19:43:30  <Sacro> slab end first too
19:44:13  <ecke> Yexo i think a dont have shared orders...
19:44:22  <ecke> Sacro ?
19:44:28  <Sacro> Yes?
19:44:44  <Sacro> also, ICQ, not seen that in yers
19:44:45  <ecke> dont understand.. .slab end first too
19:45:08  <TrueBrain> does ICQ still exist?!
19:45:11  <Sacro> well a 91 has two ends
19:45:25  <Sacro> front <------] back
19:45:30  <Sacro> the back is the slab end
19:45:41  <Sacro> which tends to face the middle
19:45:50  <ecke> hm.. there is only one ... :)
19:46:02  <ecke> yy
19:46:04  <ecke> bug?
19:46:11  <Sacro> also, 91s don't haul freight :p
19:46:16  <Sacro> they are express passenger
19:46:29  <pavel1269> i bet he knows
19:46:52  <ecke> Sacro ... but its fastest :)
19:46:56  <Sacro> errm
19:47:00  <ecke> :D
19:47:04  <Sacro> well the mineral trains are limited to 45
19:47:12  <Sacro> 91 can do 140ish
19:47:22  <Sacro> use a 90 for freight if you must
19:47:23  <ecke> looks that you are realistic
19:47:38  <Sacro> Yeah
19:47:50  <Sacro> well, it's more practical too
19:47:54  <ecke> i like whem my trains move fast :)
19:48:05  <ecke> *when
19:48:43  <Sacro> heh
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19:48:51  <thingwath> idea of BR class 91 in Ostrava is itself so funny, that it really doesn't matter what would it haul :)
19:49:15  <pavel1269> :-D
19:49:21  <pavel1269> good point thought
19:50:13  <ecke> :D
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19:54:47  <ecke> doesnt work [20:33:31] Yexo: put all freight train in the same group and replace the engine for that group only
19:55:02  <Yexo> ecke: what doesn't work?
19:55:14  <ecke> put all freight train in the same group and replace the engine for that group only
19:55:22  <Yexo> what doesn't work about that?
19:55:47  <Yexo> do you get an error message, are the wrong trains replaced, ie what doesn't behave as you think it should?
19:56:47  <pavel1269> he wanted to raplace that train? :-D
19:56:51  <pavel1269> *replace
19:57:32  <pavel1269> he didnt wanted just to replace fraight train ;)
19:57:42  <ecke> Autorenew failed on Train 72 These train vehicles are not compatible
19:58:32  <el_en> pavel1269: *didn't want
19:59:16  <pavel1269> ahh, thanks ... need to get better in english, didnt notice that had 2* ed :-)
19:59:23  <ecke>
19:59:37  <el_en> pavel1269: *didn't
19:59:50  <pavel1269> come on, everyone know this one :-D
20:00:07  <el_en> sadly not
20:00:32  <Yexo> ecke: what openttd version are you using?
20:00:38  <Yexo> I can't find that error message in trunk
20:00:39  <pavel1269> so ecke, "je jakub online?" :-)
20:01:21  <pavel1269> Yexo: STR_VEHICLE_AUTORENEW_FAILED ?
20:01:32  <Yexo> pavel1269: and what about the second part?
20:01:35  <ecke>
20:01:37  <Yexo> I alreadyfound that string
20:01:59  <ecke>
20:02:03  <Yexo> ecke: that is not a version, I ment what patches are aplied, etc.
20:02:09  <ecke> [1.86 MiB]
20:02:09  <ecke> Downloaded 58 times
20:02:31  <pavel1269> oh, good point :-)
20:03:02  <ecke> on server running openttd-IS-2.0beta1-hb40dd43f-linux-i686.tar.bz2 [3.23 MiB]
20:03:48  <Yexo> ecke: sorry, can't help you
20:03:59  <ecke> ./openttd -c openttd.cfg -D ... btw once i paused > saved >chamged same options in cfg > load >run > connect
20:04:00  <Yexo> that string is not in trunk,so the only thing Ican say is complain to the patch author
20:04:23  <Yexo> changing settings in the config file doens't change them for savegames
20:05:04  <ecke> Yexo btw th ISbeta1 is based on 0.7.0 beta 1
20:05:40  <Aali> no it isn't
20:05:50  <Aali> and it certainly doesn't add that string
20:06:07  <Yexo> Aali: which trunk revision is ISbeta1 based on?
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20:07:11  <Aali> r15647
20:07:45  <ecke> heh
20:08:09  <Yexo> I can't find that string in r15647 either
20:08:59  <Aali> is it possible to set that error string from the newgrf itself?
20:09:14  <Yexo> yes
20:09:18  <Yexo> so that's the only option left
20:09:30  <Yexo> ecke: in that case: you're out of luck, use another engine
20:10:01  <ecke> :/
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20:15:02  <Ammler> ecke: have you SDL installed on your server?
20:15:18  <Ammler> or is that a new feature of openttd?
20:15:51  <Ammler> (running dedicated without need of SDL)
20:17:08  <ecke> Ammler libsdl1.2-dev (required)
20:17:33  <ecke> ...... libsdl1.2-dev instaled
20:19:09  <Ammler> updated my tt-forums thread with the dedicated version, so you wouldn't need sdl.
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20:20:10  <Ammler> he, the bundle is "just" 10 kB smaller ;-)
20:20:37  <ecke> Ammler ... but it doesn solved my problme right?
20:20:45  <ecke> didnt solve
20:20:46  <Ammler> of course not.
20:21:06  <ecke> :/
20:21:56  <ecke> and where is problem in used revision or in patch? ... in other version is it posible this type of replacement?
20:22:29  <Ammler> which set do you use?
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20:24:28  <ecke> set? you mean newgrf?
20:24:41  <Ammler> trainset, yes.
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20:25:51  <ecke> Ammler
20:28:39  <ecke> Ammler UK renewal
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20:28:59  <Belugas> how nice... "does not work like i like it to work, therefor it must be a bug" :S
20:29:04  <Belugas>
20:29:06  <Belugas> pffff...
20:29:08  <Belugas> users...
20:31:54  <petern> :D
20:32:08  * petern sticks to his usual trick of ignoring it
20:32:30  <Ammler> lol, he is using version 0.5 just because of that?
20:33:41  <Belugas> hu... it's not REALISTIC!!!!
20:33:43  <Belugas> prrrrrrrrt
20:34:23  <planetmaker> good evening
20:37:09  <Belugas> It won't give up
20:37:15  <Belugas> It wants me dead
20:37:21  <Belugas> and God Damn this noise
20:37:28  <Belugas> inside my head!
20:38:30  <Ammler> I wan't more "unrealistic" features
20:38:35  <Ammler> -'
20:38:56  <Ammler> like ingame rivers :-)
20:40:31  <Belugas> and Play GOD
20:40:57  <planetmaker> GOD MODE :)
20:43:10  <petern> Ammler, write it
20:43:32  <Ammler> petern: roujin already did
20:43:44  <planetmaker> ingame rivers != lively rivers
20:44:10  <Ammler> lively rivers is too realistic :P
20:44:40  <goodger> bwarp --- bwarp --- bwarp --- realism detected --- this is not a drill...
20:44:52  <Belugas> watisdediference?
20:45:47  <Ammler> Belugas: ingame rivers is the feature already in scenario editor, just also available ingame.
20:46:07  <Belugas> buwhahahaha!!!!
20:47:05  <Ammler> and is declined because of I-don't-have-enough-brave-to-say-it-again
20:47:38  <petern> enough brave!
20:47:49  <planetmaker> courage.
20:47:58  <Ammler> hmm, just thought about, can't have it, he :-)
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20:56:21  <DASPRiD> openttd needs dual-screen support :)
20:56:25  <DASPRiD> planetmaker, oh, hi!
20:57:02  <planetmaker> DASPRiD: :)
20:57:16  <planetmaker> DASPRiD: I've no problem with two screens an openttd
20:57:24  <planetmaker> *and
20:57:32  <DASPRiD> planetmaker, that actually works fine? gotta test that
20:57:34  <petern> sdl needs dual-screen support
20:57:47  <planetmaker> It works on my linux box :)
20:57:49  <DASPRiD> planetmaker, got my second monitor replaced btw :)
20:57:53  <DASPRiD>
20:57:59  <planetmaker> just drag the window over the two monitors and enjoy
20:58:08  <petern> that isn't dual-screen support
20:58:20  <planetmaker> well. Sufficient IMO :)
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20:58:56  <petern> H
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21:00:30  <Belugas> that desk is ugly
21:00:34  <Belugas> it's way too clean
21:00:41  <DASPRiD> lol
21:00:42  <Belugas> it HAS to be messier!!
21:00:47  <DASPRiD> sorry i have a maid :P
21:01:00  <Belugas> i'd prefer a mermaid ,yself
21:01:39  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
21:01:51  <ecke> is it some way possible change freight_trains to 0 ?
21:02:06  <Zuu> Why would you like to do that?
21:02:24  <Zuu> You could try editing your openttd.cfg, but I doubt it will work.
21:02:39  <Zuu> And openttd.cfg will only affect new games.
21:02:59  <ecke> hm
21:03:00  <Yexo> that won't work
21:03:07  <Zuu> You most likely need to change the code to accept values below 0, and then fix any zero divisions that make happen.
21:03:08  <Yexo> and like Zuu said, why would you want that?
21:03:24  <Zuu> below 1*
21:04:07  <Zuu> make => may
21:06:29  <Zuu> Yexo: I think i said it before when you was afk, but you made a good job by quickly implementing that the AI debug window is shown when an AI crashess. :)
21:06:39  <Yexo> thanks :)
21:06:49  <Yexo> now lets hope it improves the reports from users
21:07:06  <Zuu> When I saw the email, my first though was that it was rejected, because you was so fast :)
21:07:31  <Yexo> nah, it was a nice suggestions, and easy to implement
21:07:45  <Zuu> Yep, I hope so too.
21:08:14  <Zuu> It is actually not much in the way when developing either. Quite nice if you don't have it open that you get informed that the AI crashed.
21:10:54  <Zuu> One thing you could think of is to add a warning box if someone has selected to have > 0 competors and have not downloaded any AIs.
21:11:47  <Zuu> Perhaps issue the waring when pressing generate button or, have it appear after the map has been generated (as that can probably be more generic to work also for height maps etc.)
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21:12:55  <Zuu> If you want to I can file such a suggestion on flyspray.
21:13:56  <Yexo> when the users has no AIs, the dummy AI is loaded
21:14:18  <Yexo> the only thing the dummy ai does is printing 3 lines (via AILog::Error) that says the users should download an AI
21:14:36  <ecke> .... so i need some way change freight_trains to 0 in saved game...
21:14:46  <Yexo> the debug panel is opened (so the users can read it), but no warning box is shown saying the user should report the crash
21:14:56  <Yexo> ecke: as already said, that's no possible without recompiling openttd
21:15:04  <Yexo> ecke: and why do you want to do that?
21:15:58  <ecke> Yexo as i said i d like to use eurostar for freight trains
21:17:01  <Zuu> Yexo: Then that should be okay, if the debug panel is opened and shows those lines. At least if the users understand to read from bottom and up.
21:17:05  <ecke> i make one big mistake... before starting game a copied cfg from another game where was freight_trains on 1 ....
21:17:22  <Yexo> ecke: you can't set that value to 0
21:17:36  <Yexo> if you want to change it in-game, open the console and type "set freight_trains <newvalue>"
21:17:42  <Zuu> ecke: 1 means, freight trains have 1 times the usual weight.
21:17:52  <Yexo> console is openend with ~ (key left to 1 on your keyboard)
21:17:52  <Zuu> 2 = 2 times usual weight etc.
21:18:00  <ecke> mnt
21:18:08  <Zuu> 0 would mean weight less trains.
21:18:14  <Belugas> so 0 means it's a balloon
21:18:47  <Belugas> and gone means i'm gone
21:18:49  <Belugas> bye all
21:18:59  <Zuu> bye Belugas
21:19:11  <ecke> Zuu .. damn .. i lost in these options
21:19:54  <Zuu> I think it is called freight train weight _multiplier_, which if you know some basic math terms should tell you what it is doing.
21:20:42  <Ammler> ecke, default set has eurostart
21:21:48  <ecke> Ammler ... i am trying to solve which settings cause my problem
21:22:27  <Ammler> did you read the readme of the set?
21:24:29  <ecke> hmm it caused by set... now i tried that
21:27:19  *** Zahl_ [] has joined #openttd
21:30:16  <ecke> so its cause by grfset... how to change grfset? :D
21:30:23  <ecke> edit
21:33:07  <glx> don't change newgrf in a running game
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21:34:06  <Ammler> glx: rephrase it: "it is not recommend to change newgrf settings in a running game" ;-)
21:34:40  <glx> better not do it at all :)
21:34:43  *** Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34:43  *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
21:35:05  <Ammler> or "don't report bugs, if you changed newgrf settings" :-)
21:36:41  <glx> anyway if you want to use the fastest engine to pull anything, don't use any newgrf :)
21:37:55  <ecke> :)
21:38:14  <ecke> is there some editing guide?
21:38:55  <Ammler> do you like to edit ukrs?
21:42:12  <ecke> for test
21:42:14  <ecke> yes
21:42:27  <ecke> some copyrigts?
21:42:32  <ecke> licences?
21:47:40  <ecke> Ammler ^^
21:53:10  <Zuu> for private use you can often do more or less what you want. But as I sad, only for private use.
21:53:42  <Zuu> But there should be an readme for ukrs I think.
22:00:23  <Darkvater> hi guys
22:01:25  <pavel1269> hello
22:01:33  <Zuu> Hi Darkvater
22:02:09  <Darkvater> get to work people!
22:02:13  * Darkvater cracks whip
22:04:03  <pavel1269> i just might go to bed to sleeo :-)
22:04:08  <pavel1269> *sleep
22:06:12  <Zuu> Yea, a but late to start working at 11 PM :)
22:06:25  <Darkvater> no time is too late for openttd
22:06:32  <Zuu> Except if you prefers the darkness :)
22:06:39  <Darkvater> with this kind of mentality I ought to kickban you all
22:06:42  <Darkvater> look at me!
22:06:51  <Darkvater> I'm still here motivating your behinds
22:06:52  <Darkvater> :)
22:07:48  <Zuu> I actually made an edit on the wiki, see how productive I've been.. :p
22:07:53  <Sacro> you get off my behind, pervert
22:07:56  <Darkvater> hmm
22:08:05  <Darkvater> ok, wiki; but it only ocunts as half
22:08:23  <Zuu> Let me say, it was a really small edit. :)
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22:37:18  <pavel1269> does Property Maintenance in openttd cost only for stations?
22:37:53  <Aali> yes
22:38:08  <pavel1269> any ideas where does is calculate?
22:38:12  <pavel1269> i mean .cpp
22:38:33  <Aali> try economy
22:39:12  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:41:22  <pavel1269> have it, thanks
22:41:29  <Zuu> It is about 500 pounds per transport mode available, and then sum all stations. In 1950, from my testings in OpenTTD (whout looking in the source)
22:42:25  <pavel1269> i dont care about prices :-)
22:43:17  <pavel1269> i am creating daylength .... if you slow down time, you should pay more per month and so on
22:43:33  <pavel1269> this is last stuff which havent worked
22:47:05  *** goodger [] has quit [Quit: +++ Out Of Channel Error +++]
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22:50:45  <Sacro> stop stealing my daylength patch :P
23:06:50  *** goodger [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:25:42  <pavel1269> Sacro: i just stole idea :-)
23:25:55  <Sacro> :(
23:26:10  <pavel1269> have you finished you patch?
23:26:14  <Sacro> yup
23:26:41  <pavel1269> is that the one in chrissins thread?
23:26:55  <pavel1269> or even older?
23:27:22  <Sacro> older :p
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23:51:10  <Turnskin> Hi all
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23:53:48  <Turnskin> Thanx to Brokkoli for ver. 0.7 advice!
23:54:37  <Turnskin> i use this version and have no problem. Very nice interface of additional settings (tree).
23:54:50  <Turnskin> But i have some questions now.
23:55:11  <Zuu> Just unload them and wee see what we can/want answer :)
23:55:38  <Turnskin> 1st, khow can i destroy semaphores w/o destroying the railway?
23:56:25  <Turnskin> In some versions of TTDP and OTTD i had this possibility (forget which). Somethg like CTRL+click.
23:57:21  <DaleStan> It's been possible since TTD. And it was never ctrl-click.
23:57:26  <Turnskin> 2nd, Khow can i tell these stupid trains DO NOT TURN at all?
23:58:10  <DaleStan> You do it approximately the same way you'd remove one piece of rail on a tile without removing all the rail on that tile.
23:58:24  <Turnskin> I'm not sure about combination, but it was like destroying of rails now - red line (or so) removing any semaphore in the distance.
23:58:25  <DaleStan> If you don't want the trains to turn, don't build junctions.
23:58:57  <Turnskin> DaleStan I meant turning before signals.
23:58:58  <Brokkoli> there is a config setting
23:59:26  <Brokkoli> wait_for_pbs_path = 30
23:59:30  <Brokkoli> change this value to 255
23:59:32  <DaleStan> Signals have (essentially) nothing to do with whether trains turn.
23:59:35  <DaleStan> If you don't want the trains to turn, don't build junctions.
23:59:48  <Turnskin> Yep, i'm well knowing as "Turn at end of station only" as "wait_to_oneway_signal" key.
23:59:55  <Brokkoli> wait_oneway_signal = 15
23:59:55  <Brokkoli> wait_twoway_signal = 41

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