Log for #openttd on 24th April 2009:
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02:36:42  <SHADOW_XIII> 108 people here are killing out planet ... ^_^
02:36:50  <SHADOW_XIII> ... ^_^'
02:38:11  * SHADOW_XIII love OCRemix
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05:31:31  <planetmaker> morning.
05:31:48  <planetmaker> is it just me or did openttd website just went bye bye?
05:32:12  <planetmaker> s/went/go/
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05:37:25  <Forked> it does not want to talk with me :\
05:37:48  <Forked> connection refused
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06:05:28  <petern>  pom pom pom
06:05:50  <Xaroth> pompiedom
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06:46:01  <el_en> bang bang bang
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07:32:15  <dihedral> morning ladies
07:35:20  <SmatZ> hello dihedral
07:35:49  <dihedral> :-)
07:37:06  <dihedral> how are you sir?
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07:38:22  <SmatZ> not bad :)
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08:11:15  <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: only if a developer signs off on it
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08:12:17  <fonsinchen> Ammler says he wants to do the same as with Infrastructure Sharing.
08:12:26  <fonsinchen> What do I have to do to achieve that?
08:12:53  <TrueBrain> you have 2 options: 1) if you want the binaries to be at you need a developer to sign off on it
08:13:10  <TrueBrain> 2) if you want the binaries at an other location, you need a developer to sign off on it, and supply me with correct information to do the upload
08:13:52  <TrueBrain> I should make a webpage for this ..
08:14:04  <petern> if it goes to a remote location i have no issue with it
08:14:19  <fonsinchen> I have that page in your wiki
08:14:32  <fonsinchen> I can make my own, but it would be somewhat redundant.
08:14:41  <TrueBrain> I doubt we can put 130 MB of binaries on a wiki page
08:14:44  <TrueBrain> so I don't see the relation :)
08:14:57  <fonsinchen> Ammler says he'd host it somewhere
08:15:11  <fonsinchen> how do you do that with Infrastructure Sharing?
08:15:13  <TrueBrain> Amller says this, Ammler says that ... what are you .. a puppet?!
08:15:32  <fonsinchen> I don't care if you are hosting binaries of Cargodist
08:15:34  <TrueBrain> "Hello! I am Ammler but I talk through fonsinchen! BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID!" :p
08:15:51  <Forked> sock puppy? :)  *goes back to idle land*
08:15:52  <fonsinchen> Well, you better take care of that among yourselves then ...
08:16:05  <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: no, it is YOUR job to take care of this
08:16:08  <TrueBrain> 100% :)
08:16:12  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16133 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r16129): who would've thought that the saveload system couldn't handle skipping strings on load yet?
08:16:26  <fonsinchen> Just to make it clear: the code is in my git repository, anyone can compile it and host it wherever they want.
08:16:54  <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: you have the two options I gave you above; You have one developer signing off on the second, so if you want that option, you need a place to get the files hosted
08:17:10  <TrueBrain> if you want the first option (wihch most likely gives slightly more publication), you need a dev to sign off on that
08:17:13  <TrueBrain> your job :)
08:17:42  <fonsinchen> I'm not going to mediate between you and Ammler TrueBrain. You can talk to each other yourselves.
08:18:06  <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: and I am not the mediate between you/Ammler and the developers. You can talk to them yourselves :)
08:18:31  <fonsinchen> So, then there are no binaries until someone is interested enough to provide them.
08:18:35  <fonsinchen> Simple as that.
08:18:50  * Rubidium feels someone is going to get kicked because of a desync error ;)
08:19:00  <TrueBrain> morning Rubidium :)
08:19:24  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: are you ill? Saying morning when it's still morning?
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08:19:44  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yeah .. and I am already awake for 2 hours ... sucks to be me :)
08:20:03  <dihedral> HAHA
08:20:14  <dihedral> just had a hosting company on the phone
08:20:26  <petern> oh aye?
08:20:26  <dihedral> they wanted 1Euro per 1GB traffic :-D
08:20:56  <dihedral> now if that is not over the top, then i dont know what is
08:21:17  <petern> a little
08:21:52  <petern> my 0.21 mbit/s 95%ile for ~ £2 would cost €13
08:22:12  <petern> and that's only half a month, heh
08:22:33  <TrueBrain> I can get 1 mbit/sec for 15 euro .. 300 / 15 ... 20 GB for an euro ... lol :)
08:23:28  <petern> one of our suppliers charges us £150 per mbit/s per month
08:23:31  <petern> every month
08:23:38  <petern> and every month they give us a credit note
08:23:43  <petern> idiots
08:25:44  <dihedral> lol
08:25:45  <petern> our main transit is £9 per mbit/s per month
08:25:59  <dihedral> i would not mind such an offer
08:26:05  <petern> (we're too small to do public peering)
08:26:09  <dihedral> :-(
08:26:25  <dihedral> i just want a decent box that'll run esx-i
08:26:37  <petern> peering exchanges are not cheap, despite being non-profit, generally.
08:26:55  <petern> if you do a lot of traffic it's cheaper than transit
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08:27:01  <dihedral> oh - the company wanted more than 100Euros / month just for 1U + power
08:27:26  <petern> power *is* expensive these days
08:27:29  <TrueBrain> petern: I might hope ;) (that peering is cheaper than transit ;))
08:27:41  <petern> TrueBrain, yeah, we don't do enough traffic to make it cheaper though
08:28:10  <TrueBrain> transit never gets cheap :(
08:28:28  <petern> it is!
08:29:28  * TrueBrain considers flaming a user for starting AGAIN why richk does what he does ... not only in the wrong topic, also completely against the wishes of richk :p
08:30:21  <TrueBrain> maybe I should just remove the reply to Spam Bin
08:30:46  <dihedral> no just lock the thread
08:30:49  <dihedral> :-P
08:30:55  <TrueBrain> the thread is fine
08:30:56  <dihedral> then richk cannot reply either :-D
08:31:08  <dihedral> lets all flame him and lock the topic :-P
08:34:58  * TrueBrain decides to do the latter ... move to Spam Bin, and send nice PM :)
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08:47:12  <TrueBrain> a pider made a web overnight over my drinking cup :(
08:47:47  <TrueBrain> pider = spider
08:50:27  <dihedral> YUMM
08:50:41  <dihedral> glad to hear it was only over night, and not over the last week :-P
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08:55:06  <TrueBrain> a full blue sky today ... hmm ..
08:55:09  * TrueBrain hugs blue skies
08:57:41  <TrueBrain> so, who knows a funny joke?
08:58:53  <dihedral> uh uh uh
08:59:01  <dihedral> why were all the numbers afraid of seven?
08:59:25  <Noldo> what is a difference between Rommel and a clock?
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09:00:27  <TrueBrain> do tell
09:01:01  <Noldo> clock does forward and says tic-tac, Rommel goes backwards and says tactic
09:02:05  <Noldo> and it's not my fault that clock really say tic-toc in english
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09:03:26  <TrueBrain> ghehe :)
09:06:09  <petern> :s
09:06:14  <petern> bacon & egg bap
09:06:20  <petern> had a pile of bacon
09:06:23  <petern> and
09:06:25  <petern> she added more
09:06:27  <petern> :D :D :D
09:13:52  <SmatZ> mmm bacon
09:14:01  <TrueBrain> hmm 'she'
09:14:11  <SmatZ> :-D
09:14:24  <petern> ...
09:18:05  <SmatZ> there's no such thing as "too much bacon"
09:20:29  <petern> indeed
09:21:01  <petern> i don't get the "'she'" though :/
09:21:48  <TrueBrain> maybe for the best ...
09:21:50  <SmatZ> TrueBrain is dreaming about a girl :)
09:22:06  <TrueBrain> I am trying this milter stuff via debian .. but it has a poor auto-configure
09:22:08  <petern> maybe he doesn't encounter many
09:22:31  <petern> milter is an interface, not a program :)
09:22:43  <TrueBrain> .... no shit einstein :)
09:22:51  <TrueBrain> apt-get install postfix clamav-milter
09:22:55  <TrueBrain> doesn't give clamav via postfix
09:23:04  <TrueBrain> spamass-milter on the other hand, does hook itself into postfix how you might expect
09:30:49  <petern> awww, manual configuration, how terrible
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09:31:18  <TrueBrain> even more as you can't really find any documentation on it ... I hate searching
09:31:21  <TrueBrain> things should be obvious! :)
09:31:47  <petern> heh, google's servers in psbl :/
09:34:58  <TrueBrain> when post-install of a debian package refers to me to README.Debian, it is README.Debian.gz, and visa versa :) Ghehe!
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10:14:31  <Rubidium> SmatZ: there is such a thing as "too much bacon". If one cannot enter more bacon via the "approved" channels it means that there is too much bacon. Ofcourse "too much bacon" results in EAGAIN so you can try later again
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10:15:35  <SmatZ> hehe
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10:16:13  <Rubidium> what are approved channels it totally up to the person consuming the bacon
10:16:38  <SmatZ> :-D
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10:33:28  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16134 /trunk/src/network/core/ (address.h host.cpp): -Change: do not add duplicates to the broadcast list
10:33:36  <petern> \o/
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10:50:26  <TrueBrain> "milter manager will also provide Web interface for configuration since the next release." <- euh .. I am confused .. 'will also' suggests future plans 'since the next' suggests current feature ... :s
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10:53:03  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16135 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Fix [FS#2856]: always give the server an already resolved 'client address' so we can be sure the client address is always resolved
10:54:47  <Rubidium> "since the next" is the only troublesome part, quite paradoxially in fact. It implies that the next/coming release is already release, but if it is released it cannot be the next/coming release
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10:58:52  <petern> pom te om
10:58:56  <petern> power failur
10:59:00  <petern> typing failure too
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11:07:07  <SmatZ> :-p
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11:24:24  <petern> yup
11:24:33  <petern> someone had set the smarthost to an IP
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11:59:16  <fjb> Hello
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12:21:37  <TrueBrain> hi fjb
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12:24:41  <TrueBrain> Combuster: mind getting a more stable connection?
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12:28:11  <Napoleone> wow so many people ;P
12:28:19  <TrueBrain> what else did you expect? :)
12:28:20  <Napoleone> hello all
12:28:30  <TrueBrain> no worries, most of them never said a word :)
12:28:32  <SmatZ> prosit :)
12:28:33  <Napoleone> well less than 100 ;P
12:28:48  <Napoleone> prosit?
12:28:57  <SmatZ> [14:28:04] --> Napoleone has joined this channel (~prosit@
12:29:00  <Napoleone> lol
12:29:02  <SmatZ> your name?
12:29:10  <Napoleone> naa
12:29:23  *** Napoleone is now known as LebQzz
12:30:17  <LebQzz> well i just wanted to know how to get ai working
12:30:32  <TrueBrain> download one, start one, done! :)
12:33:07  <LebQzz> hehe download where ;P
12:33:21  <glx> use openttd :)
12:33:22  <TrueBrain> Online Content button?
12:35:27  <TrueBrain> how up-to-date is landscape_grid.html? class 3 (house), m3, bits 2, 3, and 4 are marked as not having a real meaning, but landscape.html assigned them to newhouses triggers?
12:35:57  <glx> hmm good question :)
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12:36:49  <LebQzz> hmm where is the ai in the openttd online content ;P
12:37:21  <TrueBrain> under Type AI
12:37:22  <planetmaker> those which say "AI"?
12:37:23  <TrueBrain> just an idea :)
12:37:23  <glx> the category is "AI" for them
12:37:52  <glx> there are also "NewGRF", "Scenarios", "Heightmap"
12:38:35  <LebQzz> aaah
12:38:43  <LebQzz> then it makes sense ;P
12:38:59  <TrueBrain> what? OpenTTD makes sense? NO WAY! :p
12:39:04  <LebQzz> hehe
12:39:14  <LebQzz> i only got newgrf under type hmm
12:39:28  <planetmaker> you have a running game?
12:39:49  <glx> TrueBrain: about docs, I think it's because these bits have a meaning only for newhouses, and are free otherwise
12:39:51  <LebQzz> lol im just stupid ;P
12:40:00  <TrueBrain> glx: so they are not free :)
12:40:27  <TrueBrain> glx: m7 bits 4 to 7 have the same; only used with newhouses
12:41:12  <LebQzz> what ai would you suggest?
12:41:20  <TrueBrain> all of them! :)
12:43:17  <LebQzz> just install all of em?
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12:46:33  * TrueBrain reimports WT3 database, to validate all strings :)
12:46:39  <SmatZ> :o)
12:49:16  <glx> TrueBrain: I found why it's like that in doc :)
12:49:34  <glx> there are only 2 value for house triggers (1 and 2)
12:49:54  <TrueBrain> then why are there so many bits reserved? Any possible future extension?
12:50:14  <TrueBrain> as else it means we have 2 bits free for everything to handle multi-climate :p
12:50:34  <glx> probably (unless the spec says it should reserve 5 bits)
12:51:54  <TrueBrain> btw, glx, 2 values (1 and 2), or 2 flags (so values 0, 1, 2, 3)
12:52:08  <glx> values
12:52:13  <TrueBrain> so it only requires 1 bit :p
12:52:37  <glx> well 0 is also a value :)
12:52:47  <glx> anyway I'm trying to follow the code
12:52:56  <TrueBrain> so not only 2 values, but 3 values ;)
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12:54:40  <TrueBrain> @kban [com]buster 3600 Please come back if your connection is stable
12:54:41  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: [com] is not in #openttd.
12:54:43  <TrueBrain> lol
12:54:50  <TrueBrain> @kban "[com]buster" 3600 Please come back if your connection is stable
12:54:51  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
12:54:51  *** [com]buster was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Please come back if your connection is stable]
12:55:43  <pavel1269> ban for this? why?
12:55:44  <TrueBrain> for days now he joins/leaves every 30 or 40 minutes, but not in the early morning :p
12:56:18  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: typical user, which rarely says anything at all, and only joins/leaves (on timeout). Annoys me :)
12:56:27  <pavel1269> true
12:56:50  <TrueBrain> @seen combuster
12:56:50  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: combuster was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 7 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <Combuster> I moved the station to connected the other
12:56:56  <TrueBrain> he talked last 4 weeks ago :p
12:57:03  <pavel1269> :-)
12:57:09  <pavel1269> but he talked! :-)
12:57:21  <pavel1269> @seen db48x
12:57:21  <DorpsGek> pavel1269: db48x was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 11 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: * db48x scowls at fixed-point math
12:57:30  <pavel1269> hmm? :-)
12:57:32  <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: You could always just /ignore JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS from him
12:57:32  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: but db48x doesn't timeout all the time :)
12:57:45  *** Combuster [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:57:48  <pavel1269> :D
12:58:08  <TrueBrain> I wonder in general how people manage to timeout EVERY HOUR
12:58:14  <pavel1269> isp?
12:58:18  <pavel1269> not their problem?
12:58:21  <Prof_Frink> IloSP.
12:58:24  <TrueBrain> either you have a sucky wireless, or you need to have a GOOD TALK with your provider
12:58:43  <pavel1269> well i timeout on quakenet every 2-3hours ....
12:58:51  <TrueBrain> try an other server :)
12:58:52  <pavel1269> here, thats like once per day
12:59:25  <glx> "sucky wireless" == pleonasm ;)
12:59:35  <TrueBrain> glx: fair enough :)
12:59:46  <TrueBrain> the other day my professor finally explained to me why wireless is sucky
12:59:57  <TrueBrain> and that 54mbps doesn't mean 54 mbps transfer speeds (more a factor 10 less :p)
13:00:05  <Prof_Frink> It's because of the lack of wires.
13:00:11  <TrueBrain> mostly, yes :)
13:00:13  <pavel1269> can you explain then why? :-)
13:00:18  <pavel1269> i have cable btw ;)
13:00:20  <TrueBrain> pure overhead!
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13:00:35  <glx> it's only a "commercial" thing
13:00:41  <Prof_Frink> If you have wires, the packets can hold onto them, so they don't get lost. No wires and they wander off all over the place.
13:00:47  <TrueBrain> each bit you send over a witeless is coded with a chip, which can be up to 8 bits ... so every single bit becomes 8 bites in wireless :s
13:00:54  <glx> people don't like cables so they invented wireless
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13:01:01  <pavel1269> :-O
13:01:07  <reldred> I <3 cables
13:01:14  <pavel1269> you ass cables? :P
13:01:23  <reldred> But then, I'm a phone tech, I'm up to my ass in cables all days
13:01:23  <TrueBrain> you pipe '3' to your I and get cables?
13:01:23  <Prof_Frink> 1180/1180!
13:01:26  * pavel1269 knows what do you mean
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13:02:40  <pavel1269> TrueBrain: whats reason, to make from 1bit ... 8bits?
13:02:46  <TrueBrain> chips
13:02:52  <pavel1269> you send 8x the same to make sure? :-D
13:02:55  <TrueBrain> multiple users over 1 channel, why you know which user is who
13:03:01  <TrueBrain> and very good error recovery :)
13:03:20  <pavel1269> hmm
13:03:41  <pavel1269> so 7bits info about sender? :-(
13:03:44  <pavel1269> *:-)
13:03:54  <pavel1269> info ... well ....
13:03:58  <glx>  <TrueBrain> and very good error recovery :) <-- works only if you can get the packets :)
13:04:12  <pavel1269> :-D
13:04:13  <TrueBrain> glx: no, error recovery on bit-level, nothing to do with packets :)
13:04:25  <TrueBrain> wireless packets itself have .. I believe 7 bit error recovery
13:04:33  <TrueBrain> crc-16, x^8 + ...
13:04:41  <TrueBrain> so, yes, 7 bits it can recover, on packet level
13:04:50  <glx> so when you actually receive the bit you know it's correct
13:05:24  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: brb]
13:05:28  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: and no, there is not 7 bit of info about the sender :) It works a bit more clever
13:05:32  <TrueBrain> let me check if I can find it on the web ..
13:05:50  <reldred> Beh, I prefer cables
13:07:10  <pavel1269> x^8 ? .... 0^whatever = 0, 1^whatever = 1 :-)
13:07:30  <TrueBrain> :p
13:08:47  <TrueBrain> those crcs are polynomes
13:08:51  <TrueBrain> hence my x^8 notation :)
13:09:32  <Prof_Frink> Like... a very small pirate's pet?
13:10:05  <TrueBrain> <- doesn't really explain how it works :p Sucky wikipedia :(
13:10:48  *** gule [] has left #openttd []
13:12:01  <Xaroth> TB stop confusing them with useless info :P
13:12:13  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: useless .. yeah, for normal users it is completely useless :)
13:12:15  <Xaroth> they'll have headaches for the next 5 years
13:12:26  <TrueBrain> sad thing is that I need to know it inside out for the next few weeks ..
13:12:28  <TrueBrain> blegh :(
13:12:34  <Xaroth> sucks to be you then :)
13:12:37  <TrueBrain> yup :)
13:12:59  <reldred> TrueBrain: what are you working on?
13:13:02  <Xaroth> hmm.. payday today, and already have enough plans for next week to spend it all :/
13:13:07  <TrueBrain> reldred: passing a few classes :)
13:13:15  <reldred> TrueBrain: Ahh, boooring.
13:13:30  * reldred managed to sneak into his industry without even a highschool certificate
13:13:45  <reldred> Technically I failed highshcool, but nevermind that.
13:13:52  <TrueBrain> well, it is nice to know such things from a theory point of view :)
13:14:12  <reldred> I prefer to learn in the field :)
13:14:17  <reldred> Works better for me
13:14:27  <TrueBrain> easier :)
13:14:44  <TrueBrain> currently reading through CCNA material .. when you have a bit of experience, you laugh your ass off
13:14:50  <Belugas> hello all
13:14:50  <TrueBrain> still it is nice to read how a few things were meant to be used :)
13:14:55  <TrueBrain> howdie Belugas
13:15:07  <reldred> Yeah, I did half my CCNA when I was younger.
13:15:37  *** Quarks [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:15:48  <Xaroth> CCNA was a pain in the ass :/
13:15:51  <Xaroth> lo Belugas
13:15:53  <reldred> The company I work for is going to start selling cisco data and telephony allongside the NEC telephony we also sell, since I'm also the only tech left in the company, I'll have to get back up to speed again.
13:16:11  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: CCNA is a joke, sorry to say ..
13:16:14  <TrueBrain> even more the first part
13:16:19  <petern> Belugas :D
13:16:24  <reldred> The others resigned this week, nothing dire that should make me want to run for the hills, but anyways.
13:16:26  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: hence, pain in the ass :/
13:17:08  <TrueBrain> WT3 Database design, THAT is a pain in the ass :)
13:17:13  <reldred> I found CCNA1 explained things in the wrong order, from the application layer down when it really would have made better sense explaining it from the bare theory of data transmission working upwards to the application layer.
13:17:25  <TrueBrain> reldred: I agree
13:17:26  *** OsteHovel [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:17:37  <TrueBrain> worse, they use the OSI model over and over .. where there is no real implemention of the OSI model
13:17:41  <TrueBrain> (which they tell you too :p)
13:18:00  <TrueBrain> like you get explained something complex, after which you are told you can forget it as it is never used anyway
13:18:02  <TrueBrain> useless :p
13:18:07  <reldred> I found I ended up having to re-explain everything to the other guys doing CCNA1 at the same time, from my perspective as someone who started out as a data cable installer.
13:18:14  * db48x laughs at the OSI model
13:18:28  <TrueBrain> @seen db48x
13:18:28  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: db48x was last seen in #openttd 14 seconds ago: * db48x laughs at the OSI model
13:18:30  <TrueBrain> much better ;)
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13:19:11  <TrueBrain> reldred: well, CCNA is topdown, my classes were bottom-up ... they both such
13:19:15  <reldred> I don't mind the OSI model much, some of the theories involved have assisted me greatly in data systems troubleshooting.
13:19:19  <TrueBrain> as you don't understand it at all until you have a complete image :)
13:19:35  <TrueBrain> 'session layer' .. I still wonder what they thought that would do :p
13:19:54  <TrueBrain> such = suck
13:19:55  <TrueBrain> lol
13:21:13  <reldred> Yeah, I mean, I can understand why the took the top-down approach, but I just think it doesn't work as well. The bottom up approach needs a really good trainer who's actually got some freakin' clue to explain to a bunch of IT nooblings.
13:21:49  <TrueBrain> I think you just need a lot of experience to really understand it :)
13:21:57  <reldred> Yeah, well, that too
13:22:24  <TrueBrain> but okay .. my classes were funny :) The professor doesn't know .. a lot about the subject
13:22:33  <TrueBrain> typical quotes: BGP is not important for The Internet
13:22:50  <TrueBrain> GET has url as second param (so 'GET'), and HOST is optional for HTTP/1.1
13:22:51  <petern> heehee
13:22:58  <TrueBrain> MTU is not relavant in transfers
13:23:05  <TrueBrain> and I have a lot more written down :p
13:23:15  <reldred> I don't exactly have a huge amount of experience in any one field, but I've dabbled around all over the place from haulling cables in roofs right to programming core routers, to edge switch equipment, and now working as a PABX tech.
13:23:35  <reldred> A mate of mine had a CCNA teacher that used to routinely spout some absolute gems
13:24:12  <reldred> My CCNA teacher got downright angry at me when I tried to tell her that you can get 10gig over copper cabling.
13:24:13  <TrueBrain> oh, the quote of last week: TCP source port + TCP dest port are both '80' when you request something from a webserver
13:24:24  <TrueBrain> and here I was wondering why I needed to launch firefox as root ... :p
13:24:57  <reldred> Hahah, I had to actually explain to my senior tech who was pouring over wireshark captures of SIP negotiation the whole random source port thing.
13:25:13  <reldred> Was a nice ego-expanding experience.
13:25:17  <TrueBrain> hehehe :)
13:25:43  <TrueBrain> but okay .. I now also know if I want to browse the web, I need to shut down my webserver
13:25:47  <TrueBrain> they can't be active at the same time :p
13:25:54  <TrueBrain> (and we had more of those jokes :p)
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13:26:18  <pavel1269> :D
13:26:26  *** Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:26:26  *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
13:26:50  <TrueBrain> reldred: 10gig (bandwidth) over copper cable is not easy to do :p
13:27:32  <reldred> Nah, just as a commercial product full stop she was trying to tell me it doesn' exist, I then proceeded to rattle off all the commercially availible cabling products and networking hardware to deliver it.
13:28:12  <reldred> Actually trying to exploit that bandwidth is another challenge altogether, but that wasn't her argument at all.
13:28:31  <TrueBrain> I am wondering what kind of power you need to put on the wire for that :p
13:28:41  <reldred> Meh, comms doesn
13:28:45  <reldred> 't use that much
13:28:47  <TrueBrain> well .. very short distance works :p
13:28:54  <reldred> Nah, 100m
13:29:07  <reldred> 50m over cat6, 100m over cat6a, cat7
13:29:10  <TrueBrain> a single coper cable, 100m, 10gig of bandwidth? :)
13:29:15  <TrueBrain> cat6 is not a single coper cable :)
13:29:34  <TrueBrain> link agregation (how do you write it) allows you any speed you prefer :)
13:29:34  <reldred> Oh no, but cable refers to the entire assembly
13:29:44  <reldred> Nah nah nah, not link aggregation.
13:30:08  <reldred> I mean over a single cat6/cat6a/cat7 'cable', not link aggregation or anything like that.
13:30:09  <TrueBrain> currently they managed to get speeds of 1tb over 8 wires :)
13:30:19  <reldred> The hardware exists to do it commercially.
13:30:45  <reldred> I've installed it and tested and certfied it to specifications to do 10gigabit ethernet :P
13:30:48  <TrueBrain> but okay :) I was more thinking of a COAX cable :)
13:31:04  <reldred> Nah, bugger that.
13:31:51  <reldred> I was involved in the first Krone Cat6A installation in Adelaide a while back, we had the whole thing certified to spec to run 10gbps ethernet.
13:31:53  <TrueBrain> either way, UTP (and STP) allow very high speeds :)
13:31:59  <reldred> Wasn't too hard actually.
13:32:20  <TrueBrain> reldred: it does cost you a lot ;)
13:32:39  <reldred> About AUD a meter, about -12 per network outlet.
13:32:50  <reldred> Cat6A drove the price of Cat6 down, so eh
13:32:58  <TrueBrain> up to 100 gbit ;)
13:33:06  <reldred> The network hardware to drive it is always going to suck, price wise.
13:33:20  <TrueBrain> 10gbit is coming down slowly
13:33:25  <TrueBrain> as 1gbit is 'standard' nowedays
13:33:43  <reldred> Funnilly, the customer I'm pretty sure is only running 100mbps switching equipment, but that's their problem.
13:33:59  <reldred> They wanted to 'future-proof' their cabling infrastructure. *shrugs*
13:34:01  <TrueBrain> at least the cables are ready for the future ;)
13:34:10  <reldred> 'xactly
13:34:19  <TrueBrain> be glad they didn't want fibers :p
13:34:25  <reldred> eh
13:34:29  <TrueBrain> (a HELL to do fibers :()
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13:34:34  <reldred> Fibre isn't too bad
13:34:43  <TrueBrain> I broke a few too many cables :p
13:34:49  <TrueBrain> I can't handle those thingies :(
13:35:09  <reldred> Fiddly, but like terminating UTP ___PROPERLY___, once you've got the method downpat, it's fairly painless.
13:35:28  <TrueBrain> @calc 800*0.04
13:35:28  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 32
13:35:32  <reldred> It's the snipping off the excess and polishing the connector that takes a while to get used to.
13:35:49  <TrueBrain> I just gave up on fibers :)
13:35:52  <reldred> Splicing is dog-easy wit the equipment though
13:36:20  *** ecke_ [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
13:36:21  <reldred> But yeah, I prefer copper cabling, fo' sho'
13:37:04  <TrueBrain> r12000 ... sigh ... 4000 revisions to go ...
13:37:18  <TrueBrain> OEH! My favorite song of the week:
13:37:23  <TrueBrain> # FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU VERY VERY MUCH!
13:38:44  <TrueBrain> either way, I am going to read some more about how the IP Header CRC fails to detect 2 corrupted bits in the wrong place ... :p
13:38:50  <Xaroth> what are you doing then TB?
13:38:57  <TrueBrain> importing WT3
13:39:00  <Xaroth> aha
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13:40:49  <Xaroth> reldred: I find melting/terminating fiber a wee bit harder than cutting a simple UTP cable :P
13:41:04  *** Dred_furst [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:41:05  <Xaroth> .. besides the point that for fusing fibre you need a fucking expensive piece of kit
13:41:34  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: everything related to fiber is expensive :p
13:41:48  *** ecke [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:41:53  <reldred> Depends what sort of gear, you can get six figure gear that does it, and you can get four figure gear that does it just as well, just you need to be a bit more precise. I've used both.
13:42:05  <reldred> But yeah, UTP is much much much nicer
13:42:42  <Xaroth> 4 figure gear vs a 20 quid do-it-all cutter
13:43:15  <reldred> Yeah, but UTP can't exactly do four kilometer runs unrepeated, eh?
13:43:37  <reldred> It has it's uses, but the next person to propose Fibre to the Desktop is going to get my boot in their jaw.
13:43:45  <Xaroth> heh
13:43:50  <TrueBrain> reldred: wlel, I have a suggestion!
13:44:00  * Xaroth has a 4 fibre cables running 10 ft behind him
13:44:35  <reldred> Xaroth: I have 1000baseSX card in the computer on my desk
13:44:38  <Xaroth> -a :/
13:44:45  <Xaroth> reldred: with fibre? :P
13:45:00  <reldred> Yeah, multimode fibre, SC connectors.
13:45:05  <Xaroth> nice
13:45:14  <reldred> Well, it's disconnected, not doing anything with it at the moment :P
13:45:18  <TrueBrain> "1000BASE-SX is a fiber optic gigabit Ethernet standard"
13:45:19  <TrueBrain> ;)
13:45:39  <reldred> But I used to run 1000baseSX between my home server and an enterprise nortel switch I got for free.
13:45:41  *** Polygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:45:57  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:46:42  <reldred> Got the fibre and the switch for free (Success!), the 1000baseSX card was  on ebay. Was apparently ganked from an old server, pushed fair hard for an ebay seccond-hand affair.
13:47:19  * TrueBrain is happy with his 1000BASE-T network here
13:48:16  <reldred> At home, I now run a cheap handmade cat5e crossover between my laptop (with a USB 3G modem), and my desktop.
13:48:34  <reldred> :P
13:48:43  <pavel1269> cat5e is 400mbit?
13:48:51  <pavel1269> or 200?
13:48:52  <TrueBrain> cat5e is a cable
13:48:59  <TrueBrain> 1000BASE-T requires it for 1000mbit
13:49:13  <pavel1269> TB: i know, wonder just speed
13:49:26  <TrueBrain> depends on your levels and cables used
13:49:27  <pavel1269> ah. nvm me
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13:49:46  <reldred> cat5e will handle 1200mbit token ring/atm/whatever, and 1gbps ethernet.
13:50:43  * pavel1269 is lost
13:51:11  <reldred> I used to know the exact Mhz ratings of every cable spec, and the signalling methods used to deliver the rated bandwidths, but eh, can't be bothered anymore.
13:51:13  *** Fenris [] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 -]
13:51:14  <TrueBrain> fun fact: did you know that the brown cables in a cat5e cable twists less often than the green? :)
13:51:23  <reldred> duhhh
13:51:51  <TrueBrain> reldred: cat5e is 100 MHz
13:51:52  <reldred> each one has a different twist rate to minimize the amount of magneting linking between each pair
13:52:03  <reldred> Yeah cat6 is 250mhz
13:52:10  <reldred> Cat6a is 600mhz iirc
13:52:11  <TrueBrain> the only important thing to know ;)
13:52:18  <TrueBrain> 500, close enough ;)
13:52:28  <reldred> Stuff I installed was rated to 600mhz
13:52:48  <TrueBrain> okay, we should put it differently: cat6a demands at least 500 MHz :)
13:53:19  <reldred> Yeah, it's a pissing match between manufacturers to 'exceed' the specifications...
13:53:32  <TrueBrain> 600 MHz is btw cat7
13:53:38  <TrueBrain> (had to look that one up ;))
13:53:41  <reldred> Yeah, I know
13:53:59  <reldred> Cat7 specified different connectors though, and STP, so we'll ignore that crap.
13:54:11  <TrueBrain> not even fomrally approved :p
13:54:25  <TrueBrain> I dislike STP cables / connectors
13:54:31  <reldred> When a copper cable is thicker than a 120odd core underground fibre cable, I don't want to know about it.
13:54:39  <Gekz> lolol
13:54:42  <reldred> Krone Cat6a is gnarly thick enough as it is.
13:54:47  <Belugas> end of meeting
13:54:49  <TrueBrain> ghehe :)
13:54:52  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
13:54:52  <Belugas> alleluiha!
13:54:55  <TrueBrain> Belugas: PARTY!!!
13:55:20  <Belugas> naaa.. back to work your slave :(
13:55:39  <TrueBrain> r14000 ..
13:55:57  <planetmaker>  When a copper cable is thicker than a 120odd core underground fibre cable, I don't want to know about it. <--- I usually want to know about where my power comes from ;)
13:56:15  <reldred> For data transmission, not powar@
13:56:17  <reldred> !
13:56:18  <reldred> :P
13:56:30  <planetmaker> hehe :)
13:56:37  <TrueBrain> you know what scares me: wireless power
13:56:56  <planetmaker> fries your brain. Truely fried brain :D
13:57:16  <reldred> MmmmMmmm
13:57:19  * planetmaker is in a funny mood
13:57:19  <pavel1269> wireless power ... :D
13:57:21  <TrueBrain> they managed to cross a few meters to power a lightbulb ...
13:57:33  <planetmaker> yup. Nice stuff :)
13:57:39  <TrueBrain> SCARY!~
13:57:40  <TrueBrain> I tell you
13:57:48  <reldred> What I love is the gnarly power-factor of all the compact fluorescent lightbulbs
13:57:51  * TrueBrain slaps his ESXi server for starting to swap without reason :(
13:57:52  <reldred> :P
13:58:07  <pavel1269> ist it working .... like ... Microwave oven ? :D
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13:58:18  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: solar power... is like wireless power too
13:58:23  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: LOL!
13:58:44  <TrueBrain> okay, wireless current
13:58:45  <TrueBrain> :)
13:58:53  <planetmaker> well... actually, if you live in the vicinity of a (strong) radio transmitter, you could power your fluorescent tube for long time.
13:59:05  <planetmaker> already
13:59:16  <planetmaker> but the local radio station might not like it, though ;)
13:59:25  <TrueBrain> fuck them :p
13:59:53  <planetmaker> it's not wireless current. Rubidium is actually right. It's just a different light frequency
14:00:13  <planetmaker> and the receiver technique is a bit different
14:00:26  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: 'a bit' ;)
14:01:06  <planetmaker> well. solar cells work on molecular level while the "wireless power" basically is a nicely tuned antenna
14:01:35  <Rubidium> then there's the moons gravitational pull that could be seen as wireless power too
14:01:51  <planetmaker> :P
14:01:54  <TrueBrain> in that case, everything is wireless power
14:01:59  <TrueBrain> even molecules are
14:02:01  <Rubidium> the rest is AFAIK a derivation from either solar or gravitationally generated power
14:02:34  <planetmaker> nope :) nuclear power is definitely a derivation of neither
14:02:55  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I think you can talk long enough to put that under gravity :p
14:02:59  <petern> um
14:03:04  <petern> anyone know how to open an HP 2600n?
14:03:05  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, won't work :)
14:03:09  <Rubidium> planetmaker: that's not quite wireless ;)
14:03:13  <TrueBrain> petern: use a brick
14:03:26  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: we can at least try! :)
14:03:36  <planetmaker> Rubidium, true :) TrueBrain then truy ;)
14:03:40  <planetmaker> *try
14:03:53  <Rubidium> and 'solar power' is in effect the means to transport nuclear power
14:03:53  <db48x> actually, wireless power uses non-radiative antennas
14:03:59  <db48x> antennas so badly tuned that they don't work
14:04:05  <TrueBrain> well, nuclear power comes from an electron being forced in an other layer, releasing some exotic particles, right?
14:04:09  <db48x> TrueBrain: no
14:04:11  <petern> TrueBrain, tried that, didn't work
14:04:20  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, no
14:04:22  <TrueBrain> petern: hahaha :) Then I can't help you :)
14:04:23  <db48x> TrueBrain: nuclear power comes from the conversion of one atom into atoms of another type
14:04:31  <planetmaker> ^^
14:04:39  <TrueBrain> db48x: yeah, and what happens then? :)
14:04:40  <db48x> TrueBrain: the result is several atoms with less total mass than you started with, releasing energy
14:04:46  <planetmaker> kind of the medival type of alchemy ;)
14:04:58  <db48x> nuclear power is the direct, controlled conversion of mass into energy
14:05:13  <pavel1269> true :-)
14:05:16  <TrueBrain> db48x: so because there is lower mass, it releases energy? ;) I think it because it releases energy, the mass is lower, but okay ;)
14:05:34  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, both is true :)
14:05:36  <db48x> well, the total sum of energy+mass has to remain constant
14:05:43  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: lol :)
14:05:52  <db48x> when you split the uranium atom, the results have less mass than the uranium did
14:05:55  <pavel1269> TB: if you "connect" two atoms to make one with higher mass, you will also get a energy :-)
14:06:00  <db48x> so the rest has to come out somewhere
14:06:02  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: e = mcc
14:06:14  <db48x> pavel1269: it depends on what you start with
14:06:19  <planetmaker> pavel1269, no. Only if you end up with atoms lighter than iron
14:06:22  <db48x> pavel1269: that's true for anything less massive than iron
14:06:32  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: really?! :p
14:06:33  <pavel1269> but it ts :-)
14:06:33  <db48x> anything more massive than iron requires you to create mass during fusion
14:06:46  <planetmaker> ^
14:06:48  <pavel1269> you know .... fusion power?
14:06:52  <db48x> yes
14:06:55  <planetmaker> pavel1269, yes.
14:06:57  <db48x> fusion works with hydrogen
14:07:01  <pavel1269> ye ...
14:07:03  <db48x> much less massive than iron
14:07:09  <pavel1269> 1hydrogen + 1hydrogen :-)
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14:07:16  <planetmaker> fusion of iron and iron to, say, uranium requires you to input LOTS of energy.
14:07:17  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: now substitute m for the difference in mass et presto, the different in energy is calculated
14:07:17  <pavel1269> well, i havent said, with what :-)
14:07:21  <db48x> if you tried to fuse two iron atoms together, it would require an input of energy to create the mass that would otherwise be missing
14:07:39  <db48x> anyway, back to wireless power
14:07:44  <planetmaker> if it weren't so, you would see no supernovae :)
14:07:54  <db48x> they use non-radiative antennas, so they don't waste power on making radio waves
14:07:56  <pavel1269> i havent :-)
14:08:03  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you can also just use the sun as example
14:08:03  <planetmaker> I did :P
14:08:06  <TrueBrain> no need to go supernovea :)
14:08:16  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, the sun doesn't fuse iron :)
14:08:33  <pavel1269> sure? :-D
14:08:33  <Rubidium> planetmaker: no, that's the task for Mythbusters
14:08:34  <TrueBrain> it for sure has iron particles
14:08:44  <planetmaker> my word were: if you could fuse iron with energy gain -> no supernovae
14:08:45  <db48x> ironically, supernovas happen when the amount of iron in a star gets too high, and the supernova explosion causes the R-process that makes all the elements heavier than iron
14:09:07  <pavel1269> planetmaker: well, hydrogen is making energy gain, iron is eating it? :-)
14:09:13  <planetmaker> yes
14:09:16  <db48x> pavel1269: exactly
14:09:31  <pavel1269> but it is fusing ....
14:09:34  <planetmaker> no
14:09:47  <planetmaker> starts only fuse light elements
14:09:48  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: in that case, I have to agree ;)
14:10:04  <planetmaker> iron is the most stable element there is.
14:10:09  <db48x> pavel1269: fusing hydrogen makes helium, fusing helium makes berrillium, fusing berrillium makes oxygen, etc
14:10:11  * pavel1269 's searching in vocabulary now for "fusion"
14:10:15  <planetmaker> you don't gain energy from it by either fusion or fission
14:10:16  <db48x> once it starts making iron, the star's days are numbered
14:10:53  <planetmaker> db48x, you don't make Berrilium...
14:10:54  * Rubidium doubts that such countdown is measured in days
14:10:58  <planetmaker> you make C.
14:11:01  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: remember we talk physics here .. not everything is what the term suggests ;)
14:11:17  <planetmaker> directly
14:11:20  <pavel1269> but ... iron can breakdown again to lighter one :-.)
14:11:26  <planetmaker> pavel1269, no
14:11:29  <TrueBrain> db48x: every star makes iron pretty quick .. just not that much ;)
14:11:35  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, no
14:11:42  <planetmaker> :)
14:11:45  <pavel1269> stop saying no
14:11:52  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I tempt to disagree :)
14:11:52  <db48x> planetmaker:
14:12:01  <planetmaker> db48x, exactly.
14:12:05  <planetmaker> tripple-alpha.
14:12:16  <planetmaker> not Berillium
14:12:27  <TrueBrain> "The triple alpha process is highly dependent on carbon-12 and beryllium-8"
14:12:40  <planetmaker> the latter isn't stable.
14:12:55  <planetmaker> it's actually nearly as unstable as you can get.
14:12:59  <TrueBrain>
14:13:02  <TrueBrain> (random URL)
14:13:03  <planetmaker> So you need 3 alpha in one place at a time
14:13:09  <db48x> my only point was that the star proceeds up the chart until it hits iron
14:13:13  <planetmaker> or within 10^-18s
14:13:19  <db48x> the exact process isn't very important
14:13:37  <pavel1269> great ball of iron :-D
14:13:43  <planetmaker> that's then end, yes
14:14:02  <planetmaker> well... not of a star, but of its center
14:14:15  <TrueBrain> but okay .. we can all agree that we wouldn't have heavier elements than Iron if there weren't big balls of explosions over the million of years we had ;)
14:14:24  <planetmaker> yes
14:14:34  <planetmaker> if you mean supernovae.
14:14:45  <pavel1269> but hey, why everything just dont end as iron? ....
14:14:56  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: because we need heavier elements!!
14:15:00  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: not perse, but okay :)
14:15:07  <planetmaker> pavel1269, because stable elements are... stable :)
14:15:11  <pavel1269> well, we need, how do we make them? :P
14:15:17  <planetmaker> in supernovae
14:15:23  <db48x> pavel1269: ah, that's called the r-process
14:15:27  <pavel1269> every element break on its own ... false?
14:15:34  <db48x> yes, that's false
14:15:34  <planetmaker> yes
14:15:42  <db48x> the only elements that break on their own are the radioactive ones
14:15:46  <planetmaker> yes
14:15:59  <db48x> when a star goes supernova, a huge amount of neutrons are released
14:16:01  <planetmaker> see. I can say 'yes', too :)
14:16:19  <TrueBrain> but now the question: how are planets made? :p
14:16:23  <db48x> those neutrons fly through the outer layers of the star, and a tiny percentage of them are captured
14:16:28  <pavel1269> whats then "half time of breakdown" every element have it ...
14:16:33  <db48x> any atom that captures a neutron tends to move up on the periodic chart
14:16:40  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, by having a supernova compress an existing gas and dust cloud sufficiently
14:16:46  <planetmaker> :)
14:16:51  <db48x> pavel1269: not every element has a half-life, because not every element is radioactive
14:17:02  <pavel1269> everyone have
14:17:05  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: there is no absolute need for supernovea to create planets
14:17:20  <db48x> TrueBrain: yes, but it's believed to be the most common method
14:17:30  <db48x> a regular nova can also create new stars and planets
14:17:35  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, there's no need. But w/o supernovae there wouldn't be anything other than Hydrogen and helium.
14:17:44  <planetmaker> so,... you need some initially :)
14:17:46  <pavel1269> hydrgoen for expalmle some trilions of years ... i dont think hydrogen is radioactive
14:17:56  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: yes, but that can be non-related :)
14:17:57  <planetmaker> pavel1269, it isn't.
14:18:00  <db48x> pavel1269: you may be referring to proton decay
14:18:09  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, yes
14:18:12  <db48x> pavel1269: proton decay is still theoretical
14:18:26  <planetmaker> but you still need some cause for the instability. But that may be any.
14:18:42  <db48x> but the theory says that over time spans longer than the total life of the universe so far, all protons may eventually decay away
14:19:05  <pavel1269> how do you get old of somethink ancient? .... halftime breakdown of ... C ... C isnt radioactivev :-)
14:19:06  <TrueBrain> db48x: lucky quantum says the oposite: protons are randomly generated in the universe :p
14:19:12  <TrueBrain> (okay, now THAT is an other subject :p)
14:19:41  <db48x> pavel1269: C14 is radioactive, C12 is not
14:19:45  <db48x> C14 is pretty rare
14:19:47  <planetmaker> pavel1269, yes, C is neither radioactive. But you can still fuse it with energy gain :)
14:20:04  <planetmaker> 14C isn't created in stars :)
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14:20:08  <planetmaker> not much
14:20:09  <pavel1269> so, they are using for that C14? ....
14:20:16  <planetmaker> no
14:20:16  <TrueBrain> and to confuse pavel1269 even more: now tell how suns are created ;)
14:20:18  <db48x> when a plant or animal is alive, it's continuously taking in and expelling C
14:20:20  <Forked> did it ever occur to you people that it's friday and this is too much for some of us? :\
14:20:25  <Forked> even if it is an interesting topic :p
14:20:31  <pavel1269> poor TB :-D
14:20:34  <TrueBrain> @kick Forked we can fix that problem
14:20:34  *** Forked was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [we can fix that problem]
14:20:34  <db48x> so the amount of C14 as a percentage of it's total carbon content is always the same while it's alive
14:20:35  <planetmaker> Forked, no :P
14:20:42  <db48x> once it dies, no more C enters or leaves
14:20:43  *** Forked [] has joined #openttd
14:20:45  <Forked> such violence :)
14:20:48  <db48x> so the C14 slowly decays away
14:20:57  * TrueBrain hugs Forked
14:21:14  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I've heard that someone wrote down how suns are created... was something like 'poef' and there a bunch of starts IIRC
14:21:17  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: why poor me? :)
14:21:18  <planetmaker> Forked, that's the Friday afternoon brain washing session
14:21:28  <db48x> pavel1269: so if you measure the amout of C14 and the amount of C12, then the ratio tells you how long it's been since the thing died
14:21:31  <planetmaker> hehe :)
14:21:39  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: lol :) And that all happened in the Nth day, yes ;)
14:21:42  <pavel1269> okay
14:21:47  <pavel1269> will trust :-)
14:21:48  <Forked> TrueBrain: aww :)
14:22:06  <planetmaker> Rubidium, that someone must be a Mr Shu ;)
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14:22:10  <db48x> the problem with C14 dating is that we have to assume that the amount of C14 that was generally available is the same as it was today
14:22:22  <pavel1269> another question, whats real purpose of breathing? its it just "removing" Cs from our body?
14:22:23  <planetmaker> db48x, which is pretty good assumption
14:22:33  <TrueBrain> db48x: wasn't there a publication about it last week or so
14:22:34  <db48x> we know that there is some variability, but overall it does seem to have been a decent assumption
14:23:02  <db48x> pavel1269: you pull in O2 molecules, break them apart to make energy, and the result is carbon dioxide, CO2
14:23:12  <planetmaker> db48x, as the method isn't usefull for anything beyond a few 10k maybe 100k years... pretty much so
14:23:17  <db48x> breathing is where you get the energy to move about and type things
14:23:23  <TrueBrain> (mostly showing C14 is not equal in relative messages to C12 as we are hoping)
14:23:37  <db48x> TrueBrain: dunno, might have been
14:23:48  <pavel1269> db48x: so we break apart O2 and then make CO2? :-D ....
14:23:58  <db48x> I read once that lightning strikes can create false C14 readouts
14:24:00  <db48x> pavel1269: yes
14:24:11  <db48x> that's called the Krebs cycle
14:24:15  <planetmaker> there are constantly messages :) - it's cucial to know the 14C times exactly and the time variation thereof
14:24:22  <TrueBrain> <- C14 against C12 ;)
14:24:24  <pavel1269> se, we with this whole cyclus, we just remove C :-)
14:24:38  <db48x> it creates a proton gradient in the interiors of your mitochondria, which the mitochondria use to power motors
14:24:51  <Rubidium> db48x: doesn't suprise me that lightning causes fusion
14:25:01  <Rubidium> and with enough stuff in the air, who knows ;)
14:25:02  <db48x> those motors put toghether molecules called ATP (adesine triphosphate)
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14:25:09  <db48x> lightning doesn't cause fusion
14:25:12  <TrueBrain> I love animations of ATPs :)
14:25:14  <db48x> yea
14:25:18  <db48x> ATP is awesome
14:25:48  <TrueBrain> <- hahahaha :)
14:26:04  <db48x> any time a machine in one of your cells wants to do something, it grabs an ATP molecule and breaks it into ADP (adensine diphosphate) and a free phospahte group
14:26:09  <pavel1269> if i could remove some Cs from my body now and then, then i dont need to breath :P
14:26:11  <db48x> that powers the machine in your cell for a bit
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14:26:26  <db48x> pavel1269: no, if you don't breath your cells will stop working
14:26:39  <db48x> there will be no oxygen to power the Krebs cycle, and your supplies of ATP will run down
14:26:45  <db48x> the result is a quick death
14:26:50  <db48x> 3-5 minutes
14:26:55  <db48x> aka, strangulation
14:26:56  <pavel1269> O + O + C just make CO2?
14:27:00  <db48x> yes
14:27:04  <pavel1269> and O2 to O + O makes energy?
14:27:05  <TrueBrain> <- hahaha :)
14:27:19  <db48x> pavel1269: yes
14:27:24  <TrueBrain> can't find the animation I was looking for :(
14:27:33  <pavel1269> so we have free energy engine :-D
14:27:36  <db48x> I have a good one bookmarked on my other computer, hold on
14:27:39  <db48x> pavel1269: not quite
14:27:48  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: yeah .. exploit it!!
14:27:56  <pavel1269> :D
14:27:57  <db48x> it's not free, but it is surprisingly efficient
14:28:10  <TrueBrain> how is it called .. an engine that runs 'for free'?
14:28:15  <TrueBrain> too difficult word for me to type :p
14:28:34  <pavel1269> i will just harvest some Cs and then spray then with O2 and gain energy :-P
14:28:38  <pavel1269> haha :D
14:28:42  <planetmaker> perpetuum mobile, TrueBrain ?
14:28:46  <pavel1269> yeah
14:28:50  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I only know it starts with a p :p
14:28:52  <Belugas> [10:29] <db48x> the result is a quick death
14:28:53  <TrueBrain> so I guess :)
14:28:53  <Belugas> [10:29] <db48x> 3-5 minutes
14:28:56  <Belugas> buhwahahah!!!
14:29:04  <TrueBrain> pavel1269:there is no such thing as a 'perpetuum mobile' :p PERIOD!
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14:29:09  <TrueBrain> stop hoping for it :)
14:29:11  <Belugas> i'm a living dead!
14:29:25  <planetmaker> huah :) zombie alarm!
14:29:28  <pavel1269> TB: if i will invent it, it would be nice ... haha :-)
14:29:33  <TrueBrain> Belugas: what was your time? :)
14:29:41  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: it is impossible to invent it: IT DOES NOT EXIST! :)
14:29:42  <TrueBrain> sigh .... :)
14:29:45  <pavel1269> i know ...
14:29:51  <Belugas> 5 minutes 47 seconds
14:29:58  <Belugas> yeah baaby!!!
14:30:02  <TrueBrain> most people won't believe that Belugas ;) WE WANT PROOF!
14:30:14  <Belugas> come in here, i'll show you :D
14:30:18  <pavel1269> :D
14:30:30  <pavel1269> but he must survive ... ALIVE :-)
14:30:32  <planetmaker> pavel1269> TB: if i will invent it, it would be nice ... haha :-) <-- I can prove that you cannot :)
14:30:35  <Belugas> by the way, world record is around 10 miutes... so... BOOOOO
14:30:44  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: k, go ahead :)
14:30:46  <db48x> TrueBrain: haha, that video is cool
14:30:46  <pavel1269> pm i know
14:30:59  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, this channel doesn't support latex :P
14:31:07  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: EXCUSES!
14:31:10  <Belugas> nope.. nly leather
14:31:12  <db48x> Belugas: ok, 3-5 minutes after the oxygen in your blood and lungs runs out :)
14:31:16  <planetmaker> :D
14:31:28  <Belugas> granted db48x
14:31:43  <db48x> so, where's that bookmark of mine?
14:31:44  <Rubidium> <- a perpetuum mobile!
14:31:54  <TrueBrain> lol @ Rubidium
14:31:59  <planetmaker> lol
14:32:13  <planetmaker> Love his art :)
14:32:16  <pavel1269> lol :D
14:33:04  <pavel1269> but, somewhere in my republic, if you put a thing on the hill, it does not move down, but up the hill :-)
14:33:26  <SmatZ> scary
14:33:57  <planetmaker> pavel1269, optical illusions are nice, eh :)
14:34:00  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: yeah, if I rotate my head 90 degrees, I get that everywhere!
14:34:19  <pavel1269> i saw that in TV! true!!
14:34:20  <TrueBrain> I was snowboarding a few weeks ago, than you have that a lot .. that you are sure you have to slow down, but instead you speed up :)
14:34:31  <planetmaker> pavel1269, yeah :) I've seen it myself
14:34:39  <pavel1269> no illusion
14:34:42  <planetmaker> maybe not "yours" but another place
14:35:01  <TrueBrain> youtube!!
14:35:02  <TrueBrain> :p
14:35:16  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: may I propose that you script your client so it swaps then and than? ;)
14:35:24  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yup
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14:35:30  <planetmaker> go an take a perpendicular and see where "up" and "down" are :)
14:36:15  <pavel1269> SmatZ: do you know about it? it was at "nova" tv
14:36:24  <pavel1269> long time ago thought
14:36:39  <Rubidium> pavel1269: if there is one thing to not trust it's TV
14:36:43  <SmatZ> ah, when it's at nova, it has to be true :)
14:36:50  <planetmaker> pavel1269, or take a level
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14:36:58  <db48x> bah
14:36:59  <planetmaker> *water level
14:37:03  <db48x> the one I have bookmarked is 404
14:37:05  <planetmaker> but that'd be boring ;)
14:37:09  <db48x> it was great too
14:37:14  <db48x> it was from the Harvard Biovisions program
14:37:23  <TrueBrain> db48x: :(
14:37:33  <planetmaker> ok. lecture's over from my part for now :) need to go shopping.
14:37:35  <planetmaker> cu later
14:37:39  <TrueBrain> I am now trying to find that very beautiful movie about how big and small we are :)
14:37:40  <pavel1269> cya
14:37:43  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: bye :)
14:38:01  <petern> lol
14:38:04  <petern> fixed the printer
14:38:19  <pavel1269> SmatZ: .... sorry, jsut Czech
14:38:41  <db48x> still, they have other good movies
14:38:42  <db48x>
14:38:48  <db48x> watch the "Inner Life of a Cell" one
14:39:00  <db48x> look for the kinesans walking around
14:39:00  <pavel1269> from the site "water is going on its own up the hill"
14:39:00  <petern> trick is: 1) unscrew every screw 2) apply some force to remove panels 3) apply MORE force to remove panels 4) apply BRUTAL force to remove panels 5) curse that the clips are made of some superstrenght plastic 6) apply crowbar to panels 7) laugh
14:39:19  <pavel1269> petern: so, you are in? :D
14:39:19  <TrueBrain> petern: why the latter?
14:39:26  <petern> delirium
14:40:53  <TrueBrain> bah, I hate it when I can't find back movies I have seen :(
14:41:33  <db48x> yea, me too
14:41:47  <TrueBrain> finally:
14:41:49  <db48x> has a bunch
14:42:06  <TrueBrain> (Very old movie btw)
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14:43:05  <SmatZ> pavel1269: it's optical illusion :) what they call hill isn't hill, but flat land
14:43:29  <pavel1269> SmatZ: just reading wiki :-)
14:43:37  <pavel1269>
14:44:15  <SmatZ> hehe
14:47:53  <db48x>
14:50:07  <db48x> there are hours of vidoes there
14:50:15  <db48x> but I must acquire some lunch
14:50:16  <db48x> bbl
14:50:21  <TrueBrain> enjoy!
14:50:30  <db48x> thanks
14:51:10  <pavel1269> TrueBrain: that zoom video is .... know but a bit scary :-P
14:51:39  <TrueBrain> it always amazed me how 'in the center' we are
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14:52:15  <pavel1269> this is nice :-)
14:52:16  <pavel1269>
14:52:20  <pavel1269> thats up the hill :-)
14:52:38  <Belugas> Run To The Hills
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14:54:41  <Troub> hi all
14:54:48  <TrueBrain> hello Troub
14:55:04  <TrueBrain> "LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! All the way from Germany I present to you: Troubles!"
14:56:15  <pavel1269> lol hi
14:56:20  <Troub> I've a question related to installing OpenGFX, anybody willing to help :)?
14:56:30  <TrueBrain> I think that depends on the question
14:56:39  <TrueBrain> so maybe you first ask it, then we go and see if we are wlling to help :)
14:56:43  <TrueBrain> sounds like a plan to you?
14:56:56  <Troub> you're a true brain...
14:57:05  <TrueBrain> I am known for that fact, yes, thank you very much :)
14:57:10  <pavel1269> :-D
14:57:50  <pavel1269> looks like alain at forums stoppped to talk at me at all :-P ... i said to him, that i wont update his patchpack and ? :-) ...
14:58:07  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: why do you say things like that! :p
14:58:24  <pavel1269> TrueBrain: make me perpetum machine!
14:58:29  <Troub> Well, I tried installing OpenGFX as told in the wiki but at the second step already I fail. There it says I have to skip the question about the install folder of the GFX files of original TTD, but there is no possibility to do so (at least for the installer)...
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14:59:16  <pavel1269> isnt it jsut ... donwload .tar .... palce him, change one line in .cfg and hooray?
14:59:18  <TrueBrain> glx: can't you skip that step in the installer?
14:59:35  <Troub> no I can't
15:00:08  <Troub> you mean using the zip instead of the installer, pavel?
15:00:14  <pavel1269> yeah
15:00:30  <pavel1269> OpenGFX == 8bpp replacement?
15:00:39  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: yes
15:00:42  <Troub> then it should be corrected in the wiki because there it explicitly says to use the installer
15:00:52  <Troub> yes, 8bb replacement
15:00:52  <TrueBrain> Troub: well, that will work for sure, to use the .zip; but the installer should be able to skip it, yes
15:01:00  <TrueBrain> Troub: so go to, and report the problem there :)
15:01:53  <reldred> Uuuuurgh bed time, I reckon
15:01:55  <Troub> actually... do you know what?
15:02:32  *** maristo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:03:12  <Troub> MAYBE... before coming to this question about the GFX folder there is the possibility to not install game graphics at all... I unchecked it... now the installer is not asking for the install folder anymore.... so I think it is meant this way... quite confusing in the wiki though, hell, thanks you 2 :)
15:03:55  <Troub> actually I "skipped" it without clicking an (quite expected) "skip" button
15:04:05  *** DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
15:04:10  <pavel1269> :-)
15:04:25  <pavel1269> i dont know why you thanks me, but np for me :-D
15:05:29  <Troub> because discussion with you lead me to try it again and figure out how it is meant ;)
15:05:38  <TrueBrain> Troub: update the wiki :)
15:06:00  <TrueBrain> reldred: sleep well
15:06:11  <Troub> actually I'm a lazy guy but for OpenTTD I will overcome this maybe :D
15:06:29  <pavel1269> everyone is lazzy :-)
15:06:32  <TrueBrain> without contributors like yourself, OpenTTD will die by lack of good howtos, for peopple like yourself
15:06:37  <TrueBrain> so yeah, overcome that lazyness ;)
15:07:05  <Troub> oh, thanks for those really wise words brain lol
15:07:16  <pavel1269> not brain, True Brain!
15:07:17  <pavel1269> :-)
15:07:25  <Troub> oh damn me
15:07:31  * TrueBrain is happy :) The WT3 I was running did that with no more than 50 MiB of used memory at any given time :)
15:07:53  <pavel1269> inst 50MB a bit much for a web application?
15:07:59  <TrueBrain> the IMPORT
15:08:00  <Belugas> [10:58] <Troub> I've a question related to installing OpenGFX, anybody willing to help :)?  <-- congratulations :D  You're the first one who to cume up with the factor of "will"
15:08:10  <TrueBrain> so processing tons of data from SVN to a database
15:08:18  <TrueBrain> I think it is allowed to be a bit 'much' relative to a web application ;)
15:08:27  <pavel1269> :-)
15:08:35  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: besides, WT2 requires a LOT more :p
15:08:47  <Troub> lol Belugas, is this good?
15:08:52  <TrueBrain> Troub: yes
15:09:02  <TrueBrain> most people who comes here demand help
15:09:07  <TrueBrain> and leave if they don't get it in time
15:09:14  <pavel1269> so true
15:10:06  <Troub> I see, so you guys idle often here it seems, are you all part of the development team?
15:10:07  *** reldred [~richard@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:10:11  <TrueBrain> hmm .. my WT3 validation still fails .. {P 2 o i} gives the warning: got 3 param, expected 2 :(
15:10:27  <Belugas> indeed Troub :)  it shows you are a better user than most new comers :D
15:10:46  <TrueBrain> Troub: most people here are OpenTTD fans, helping out where ever they can, including helping people with questions, like yourself :)
15:10:49  <pavel1269> Troub: nope, my kung-fu is weaker than developrs one :-P
15:13:06  <Troub> however, I will contribute by manipulating the wiki ;D... and thank all of you for the nice chat... now going to install OpenGFX and maybe doing some bug reports (since it is not final state yet) - well, if I overcome my lazyness again :)
15:13:19  <TrueBrain> I am sure you will ;)
15:13:23  <TrueBrain> enjoy OpenTTD :)
15:13:52  <Troub> so much more as even the original TT when I was a child :D... bye
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15:14:08  <TrueBrain> how nice to finally meat a normal user :)
15:14:11  * TrueBrain is all happy again :)
15:14:29  *** Zorn [] has joined #openttd
15:14:32  <pavel1269> yeah
15:14:36  <pavel1269> no wonder why
15:14:57  <pavel1269> you should transfer some users to "Troub" :-)
15:15:02  <TrueBrain> now I need to understand why this WT3 subroutine fails ...
15:15:15  <TrueBrain> try:
15:15:17  <TrueBrain>                                         int(m[1])
15:15:18  <TrueBrain>                                 except ValueError:
15:15:20  <TrueBrain>                                         errors += [ (8, m[0], len(m) - 1, paramCount), ]
15:15:21  <TrueBrain> seens fine, not? :(
15:15:59  <pavel1269> php?
15:16:06  <TrueBrain> does it look like PHP? :)
15:16:10  <pavel1269> no
15:16:10  <pavel1269> :D
15:16:16  <TrueBrain> so I guess it is not PHP ;)
15:16:44  <pavel1269> isnt missions some function just before the "(" ?
15:17:06  <TrueBrain> [] <- array, () <- set
15:17:09  <pavel1269> or what does it do (8, 1, 2) for example
15:17:23  <TrueBrain> (or in python terms: tuple and list)
15:17:35  <pavel1269> python :-/
15:17:42  <pavel1269> i dont like snakes
15:18:27  <pavel1269> i still dont get it :-) ... in [], it still want index, no?
15:18:38  <TrueBrain> lol, mixed up a != and == ... oops
15:18:45  <TrueBrain> errors += [ a, ]
15:18:50  <TrueBrain> errors is initialized as []
15:19:00  <TrueBrain> so, it is a simple array, where indexes go from 0 to N
15:19:12  <TrueBrain> only instead of adding 'a' to it, I add (8, 1, 2) to it
15:19:18  <TrueBrain> which is a list
15:19:33  <TrueBrain> so to access the entry: errors[n][0] or errors[n][1]
15:21:06  <pavel1269> does this works in C/PHP, so i can give a try? :-)
15:21:13  <TrueBrain> C: no (dah)
15:21:15  <TrueBrain> PHP: no idea
15:21:21  *** kingj is now known as KingJ
15:22:51  *** free_kill [] has joined #openttd
15:23:02  <free_kill> here we go, my timeout time :-)
15:23:05  <free_kill> <- pavel1269
15:24:12  *** UFO64 [] has joined #openttd
15:25:10  <Belugas> [11:16] <TrueBrain> how nice to finally meat a normal user :)  <--- TrueBrain is hungry!!
15:25:18  <TrueBrain> meet ..
15:25:19  <TrueBrain> oops
15:25:21  <Belugas> :D
15:25:52  <SmatZ> hehe
15:27:11  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
15:28:43  <SmatZ> hello frosch123
15:29:04  <frosch123> afternoon smatz :)
15:29:30  *** Gekz_ [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
15:29:33  <Belugas> hello and good afternoon frosch123 and SmatZ :)
15:29:53  <TrueBrain> time to get some food!!! :)
15:30:02  *** pavel1269 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:30:08  <Belugas> told you he saw hungry...
15:30:12  <Belugas> was
15:30:14  <Belugas> bllaaaaa
15:30:19  <TrueBrain> Belugas: you were absolutely right :)
15:31:22  <SmatZ> hello Belugas!
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15:37:40  <nicfer> one question, would be possible to make monorail buildable over regular/electrified railways?
15:38:26  <SmatZ> easy to code, but is this wanted by users?
15:38:35  <nicfer> well, it may require graphics, but it would simplify upgrading
15:38:38  <SmatZ> there is a rail convert tool available
15:38:52  <nicfer> that doesn't work for monorail
15:38:59  <SmatZ> doesn't work?
15:39:00  <nicfer> trains get stuck if you try
15:39:03  <SmatZ> haha
15:39:05  <SmatZ> sure
15:39:19  <SmatZ> you can't put your heavy steam train on monorail track
15:39:22  <SmatZ> so, no
15:39:25  <SmatZ> this won't be possible
15:39:41  <nicfer> and if you have thousands of trains, it would be a nightmare to change them all to monorail
15:39:48  <SmatZ> maybe with the exception of depots
15:39:53  *** goodger_ is now known as goodger
15:40:02  <SmatZ> send to depot, sell, convert, build new trains
15:40:02  <TrueBrain> nicfer: I did that once in my life ... with TTD .. without conversion tools .... a HELL! :)
15:40:21  <petern> it'll be easy with my railtypes code
15:40:29  <petern> you can make a grf that'll make all rail types compatible
15:40:31  <TrueBrain> petern: so finish it! :)
15:40:34  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: without mass send to depot function, shared orders and such :) but TTD had 80 trains limit
15:40:36  <petern> only for the lamers that require that :p
15:40:56  <nicfer> my proposal would be make
15:41:07  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: still .. I also remember there was an AI kicking ass in my map .. making it almost impossible .. and then you are done! And there is maglev .. .GRRR :p
15:41:16  <SmatZ> hehe
15:41:16  <nicfer> ouch, enter instead of backspace
15:41:38  <Prof_Frink> nicfer: Make it possible to upgrade depots with stopped trains in them?
15:41:57  <Prof_Frink> That's how the Patch does it.
15:42:08  <nicfer> hmmm, that would be a hacky solution
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15:42:43  <nicfer> but my initial idea was a hybrid (electric) railway-monorail track
15:42:44  <SmatZ> Patch allows normal trains on maglev track :-p
15:43:12  <SmatZ> or at least, allowed in the past (with cheats)
15:43:56  <Prof_Frink> SmatZ: Yes, but you could upgrade depots without cheats
15:45:38  <nicfer> it's clear what I want with 'hybrid mono-dual rail' no?
15:46:18  <SmatZ> Prof_Frink: I didn't know that, it's been quite long time :-x
15:46:30  *** UFO64 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:46:32  <nicfer> a track that allows both regular steam/diesel/(electric)/monorail tracks
15:46:35  *** thingwath [] has quit [Quit: It's all over.]
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15:47:01  <petern> 16:40 <@petern> it'll be easy with my railtypes code
15:47:01  <petern> 16:40 <@petern> you can make a grf that'll make all rail types compatible
15:47:11  <petern> maybe i'm talking to myself :s
15:47:29  <SmatZ> :-(
15:47:34  <TrueBrain> [17:40] <TrueBrain> petern: so finish it! :)
15:47:37  <TrueBrain> :p
15:49:13  <petern> 16:47 <@petern> give me beer
15:49:22  <petern> [16:47] <TrueBrain> petern: okay
15:49:45  <TrueBrain> petern: weird IRC client you have, it randomly changes timestamp format :p
15:49:57  <petern> madness i say
15:50:34  <TrueBrain> there, beer
15:50:48  <SmatZ> mmmm beer
15:50:56  <SmatZ> reminds me of fridge :)
15:51:03  <TrueBrain> it takes 12 minutes to revalidate all WT3 strings ...
15:51:10  *** tkjacobsen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:51:13  <petern> slow!
15:51:21  <TrueBrain> yup
15:51:57  <TrueBrain> 167,701 records + 10,116 records ..
15:52:36  <Forked> beer. good!
15:52:42  <TrueBrain> I send petern some beer
15:52:44  <TrueBrain> I hope he likes it
15:53:49  <SmatZ>  /proc/self < /dev/beer
15:54:19  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: you want beer too?
15:54:31  <TrueBrain> there
15:54:42  <SmatZ> thank you, TrueBrain
15:55:10  <TrueBrain> I can send beer for free to everyone :)
15:55:36  <TrueBrain> email is such a nice invention
15:55:53  <Forked> I sense a dissapointment in the ..brewing
15:55:58  <Forked> heheheheh.. I kill myself..
15:56:09  <TrueBrain> please don't
15:56:14  <TrueBrain> then we have to explain that to the cops and stuff
15:56:17  <TrueBrain> was annoying enough last time
15:56:37  <Forked> was it someone who didn't get their ÃŒberpatch into trunk?
15:58:02  * TrueBrain slaps planetmaker for breaking my validation routine:
15:58:06  <TrueBrain> "{GOLD}Wir haben {G "einen" "eine" "ein" ""} neue{G n "" s ""} {0:STRING} entwickelt. {}Besteht Interesse, {G 0 den die das die} {0:STRING} ein Jahr lang exklusiv zu nutzen, so dass wir die Funktionen testen können, bevor {G 0 er sie es sie} allgemein zur VerfÌgung gestellt {G 0 wird wird wird werden}?"
15:58:15  <TrueBrain> twice using {0:STRING} ... pfff ..
15:58:18  <Forked> you're pasting puke onto my screen :\
16:02:37  <TrueBrain> of the 167k strings, there are 5k strings marked as 'possible invalid' :) Not bad ;)
16:03:12  <TrueBrain> of the 167k strings, there are 136k strings of which I can't figure out the author
16:03:34  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: received your beer :)
16:03:44  <SmatZ> mmm stout :)
16:03:53  <TrueBrain> a real Beer from Stout, yes :)
16:04:00  <SmatZ> :-)
16:04:08  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: and I promise you this, if you ever visit me, you will get a real one :)
16:04:20  <SmatZ> you are very kind :)
16:04:24  <TrueBrain> 880 strings have cases
16:04:36  <TrueBrain> lol ... I think we can safely say that cases are a useless addition to strgen :p
16:04:47  <petern> hmm?
16:04:52  <TrueBrain> 527 strings have a gender ..
16:04:57  <TrueBrain> (out of the 167k!)
16:05:02  <petern> it's just german :p
16:06:36  <TrueBrain> we have 3271 strings, 92 command, and 3609 commands used in all the strings
16:07:08  <TrueBrain> @openttd commit 7787
16:07:08  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by miham :: r7787 /trunk/src/lang (7 files in 2 dirs) (2007-01-03 06:50:31 UTC)
16:07:09  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-03 07:49:50
16:07:10  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: czech      - 2 changed by joeprusa (2)
16:07:11  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: danish     - 80 changed by MiR (80)
16:07:12  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: esperanto  - 1 fixed, 3 changed by LaPingvino (4)
16:07:13  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
16:07:18  <TrueBrain> since begin 2007 there were 681 language commits
16:07:25  <TrueBrain> enough useless stats :)
16:09:09  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
16:10:12  <Belugas>  <--  /me votes to remove the console.  One day, it will be asked to shutdown the computer from the console
16:10:28  <SmatZ> hehe
16:10:56  * SmatZ doesn't really care
16:11:15  <SmatZ> except every console command means ~50 lines of code
16:11:51  <TrueBrain> sq_console required :p
16:13:58  <SmatZ> indeed
16:14:10  <TrueBrain> not that it reduces the amount of lines needed to add something
16:14:13  <TrueBrain> but at least it makes it easier :)
16:14:15  <SmatZ> so everyone can code her/his own commands
16:14:23  <SmatZ> with limitations though...
16:16:35  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: )]
16:17:26  <Belugas> sometimes, when he calms down, richk is reasonnable.  and makes sens here and there
16:17:32  <TrueBrain> Belugas: yup
16:17:33  <glx> [17:18:51] <TrueBrain> lol, mixed up a != and == ... oops <-- I noticed the same thing in ottd_depend last night :)
16:17:40  <TrueBrain> glx: ghehe :)
16:18:10  <glx> anyway makedepend really miss a lot of dependencies
16:18:20  <Belugas> sq_console?  i tough it was dead.  Is it?
16:18:29  <glx> (while my version has one too many)
16:18:40  <TrueBrain> Belugas: till someone revive it ;)
16:18:47  <TrueBrain> glx: ghehe :) Which one?
16:19:04  <glx> osx_stdafx.h
16:19:46  <TrueBrain> nasty :)
16:20:00  <Belugas> dihedral! to the breath to breath ressurection!
16:20:15  <Belugas> p.s: i do not care, really... it was just out of curiosity
16:20:32  <glx>
16:20:48  <glx> (oh and my version is "compatible" with makedepend
16:21:00  <TrueBrain> glx: I told makedepend to ignore the objs dir, so that is correct :)
16:21:27  *** Wolle [] has joined #openttd
16:21:35  <TrueBrain> +yapf/yapf_ship.o: /d/developpement/ottd/trunk/src/depot_map.h <- weird! :)
16:22:07  <TrueBrain> glx: looks good :) How did you solve #if? Via a lexer?
16:22:19  <glx> #if is not solved yet :)
16:22:35  <glx> that's why osx_stdafx.h is in
16:22:41  <TrueBrain> ah :)
16:22:51  <TrueBrain> if that is the only file, there isn't a real problem ;)
16:22:55  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
16:22:59  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
16:23:31  <glx>  ai/api/ai_company.o: /d/developpement/ottd/trunk/src/string_func.h
16:23:31  <glx> +ai/api/ai_company.o: /d/developpement/ottd/trunk/src/string_type.h
16:23:31  <glx>  ai/api/ai_company.o: /d/developpement/ottd/trunk/src/strings_func.h
16:23:47  <glx> string_type.h included by string_func.h ;)
16:24:09  <TrueBrain> glx: finish your tool, and add it! :p
16:24:12  <TrueBrain> I got to go :) Have a good night all!!
16:24:19  <Bjarni> night TrueBrain
16:24:33  <Bjarni> (a bit early though)
16:24:57  <Xaroth> sesamestreet is done, TB goes to sleep
16:25:00  * Xaroth runs for the hills
16:25:10  <Bjarni> LOL
16:25:19  <nicfer> /0/
16:25:49  <Xaroth> (he is so going to stab me for that.. or kick)
16:25:50  <Bjarni> speaking of sesamestreet, did you know that they added a HIV positive kid in the version they show in South Africa?
16:26:16  <Xaroth> o_O
16:26:17  <Bjarni> should be something about "this is common and you shouldn't lock out kids with HIV"
16:26:23  <Xaroth> sorry, I haven't followed that since i was.. 5?
16:26:33  <Bjarni> I have never actually seen it
16:27:11  <Bjarni> I just read that they decided to use it to tell children not to fear people with HIV and somewhere else they use it to tell people that it's ok to be black
16:27:30  * Belugas walks down the street and eat all the sesameseeds
16:27:32  <SmatZ> because yeah, STDs aren't dangerous
16:27:51  <Bjarni> kids shouldn't get STDs anyway
16:28:13  *** Polygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:28:34  <SmatZ> not when they are 5, but they can when they are ~17
16:29:24  <SmatZ> I think it's better to have fear of terminal diseases...
16:29:38  * Belugas fears STB
16:29:47  <SmatZ> :-D
16:29:56  <SmatZ> what's STB for you?
16:29:57  <Belugas> Stupid Teenager Behaviours
16:29:59  <Xaroth> SmatZ: 17? bit optimistic innit?
16:30:24  <Belugas> SmatZ is in a country where sexual relations never occur before wedding
16:30:34  <Belugas> note: He is not married yet!
16:30:35  <SmatZ> Xaroth: optimistic in what way? it's average age of first sexual intercourse here
16:31:48  <Patrick> it's not really a bug as such
16:32:07  <Patrick> oil platform spawning doesn't take into account the new freeform edges
16:32:22  <Patrick> as it happens I only have one lake that cuts a map edge
16:32:30  <Patrick> after 50 years it has 10 oil platforms in it
16:32:57  <petern> 17:32
16:33:07  <SmatZ> everytime new industry is about to be spawned, it is tried 5000 times
16:33:26  <SmatZ> it doesn't have anything to do with freeform edges
16:33:34  <SmatZ> it's caused by low amount of water in your map
16:34:22  * Belugas has an urgent need to find ways to create regions in OpenTTD
16:34:23  <Patrick> yes
16:34:25  <SmatZ> "it is tried 5000 times" <-- generating random tile and testing, if the industry can be placed there
16:34:33  <Belugas> would make things on awfull lot easier
16:34:42  <Patrick> I know it's not the industry generator's fault
16:34:53  <Patrick> but the end result is unintended and looks rubbish.
16:35:11  <SmatZ> you can use a GRF that checks for industries of the same type nearby :)
16:35:14  *** ecke_ [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke_]
16:35:30  <Patrick> or I can disable that option in the game
16:35:42  <Patrick> it's not an addon-able
16:36:10  <Patrick> it'd just be a nice afterthought to scale the frequency of oil platform generation by the types of the edges
16:36:28  <Patrick> I suppose the same thing could happen before, if you terraformed flat right up to the edge of the map as close as possible
16:37:32  <Belugas> actually, that's right...  when all edged map, should disable on water industry generation
16:37:35  <Belugas> or something
16:38:21  <planetmaker> hehe @ TrueBrain - validate better :) And just for notice, that sentence is older than my participation here :)
16:38:29  <Pikka> eh? @ Belugas
16:38:39  <Pikka> who says a water-based industry has to be against an edge?
16:39:26  *** thingwath [] has joined #openttd
16:39:26  <Belugas> The code :)
16:39:26  <Belugas> 	/* These are always placed next to the coastline, so we scale by the perimeter instead. */
16:39:26  <Belugas> 	num = (ind_spc->check_proc == CHECK_REFINERY || ind_spc->check_proc == CHECK_OIL_RIG) ? ScaleByMapSize1D(num) : ScaleByMapSize(num);
16:40:55  <Pikka> oh...
16:41:19  <Pikka> well, that's oil rigs, that's not "water-based industries"... >_> although I wonder...
16:41:36  <Belugas> well... technically, we do not have "oil rigs"
16:41:40  <frosch123> yup, only default industries
16:41:43  <Belugas> it's a behavioral flag
16:41:49  *** Azrael- [] has joined #openttd
16:42:33  <Belugas> and creation check too
16:42:39  <Pikka> will it place industries on water without that flag set?
16:43:42  * Belugas is checking, just to see if not over speaking...
16:44:21  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: "
16:44:22  <Belugas> tile placement:
16:44:22  <TrueBrain> Last Change
16:44:22  <Belugas> 			/* Perform land/water check if not disabled */
16:44:23  <Belugas> 			if (!HasBit(its->slopes_refused, 5) && (IsWaterTile(cur_tile) == !(ind_behav & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER))) return false;
16:44:24  <TrueBrain> Unknown (revision 16118, 3 days ago)
16:44:25  <TrueBrain> "
16:44:27  <TrueBrain> Don't know how old you are ;)
16:45:10  <TrueBrain> oh, I was going .. hehe! :) Bye :)
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16:47:12  <Belugas> mmmh... strange.... i just realized the both oil rig and oil refinery are bound to the same check of oil_refinery_limit
16:47:32  * Belugas closes code and resume drawing
16:47:36  <SmatZ> :o)
16:48:22  * frosch123 is cofused by the discussio
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16:49:45  <frosch123> the only at coastline rule only applies to default industries and is disabled when a newgrf overrides those industries
16:50:40  * SmatZ is confused by frosch123
16:52:29  <Belugas> mmh?
16:52:57  <Belugas> somehow... i think i remember something about that indeed...
16:54:50  <Belugas> 					/* If the grf industry needs to check its surounding upon creation, it should
16:54:50  <Belugas> 					 * rely on callbacks, not on the original placement functions */
16:54:50  <Belugas> 					indsp->check_proc = CHECK_NOTHING;
16:54:51  <Belugas> yup
16:55:06  <Belugas> a cookie for frosch123
16:55:35  <frosch123> :O
16:55:54  <Bjarni> my browser gets cookies all the time
16:56:02  <Bjarni> there is nothing special about getting a cookie :P
16:56:13  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:56:21  <Bjarni> oh a real cookie
16:56:33  <Bjarni> then opening the mouth is all right ^^
16:57:26  <Belugas> don't colse your eyes then... never know if it would be a real cookie or another word starting with "C"
16:57:28  <Belugas> close
16:57:30  <Belugas> ;)
16:58:56  <Bjarni> good point
16:59:19  <Bjarni> though some might open their mouth because of this >.<
16:59:49  <Bjarni> and everybody you meet online are weird until proven otherwise
16:59:54  <Belugas> depend of definition of "some"
17:00:19  <Bjarni> some = a group of people of undefined size
17:00:26  *** Cybertinus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:00:36  <Bjarni> could be 5 people and it could be a billion
17:01:47  <Belugas> [13:02] <@Bjarni> some = a group of people of undefined size  <-- was not really wondering about that... rather the gender of "some"
17:02:01  * Belugas is not the orgy type of guy
17:03:17  <Bjarni> lol
17:03:29  <Bjarni> I didn't mean it like that
17:03:59  <Bjarni> never ever heard about an orgy of a billion people
17:04:02  <Belugas> you did!!!!  Wordds don't lie!!!
17:04:28  *** LebQzz [~prosit@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:04:57  <Bjarni> I meant it like you can make a group of people and if you take any one of those and place in the previous described situation they will likely open the mouth
17:05:12  <Bjarni> I didn't mean to place all of them in the room at the same time
17:05:15  *** LebQzz [~prosit@] has joined #openttd
17:05:26  <Bjarni> ... that would be some house if it had a room big enough to do that
17:07:06  <Bjarni> also in there modern and free time the group of "some" isn't gender specific
17:08:32  <Belugas> granted
17:08:37  <Belugas> less fun
17:08:42  * Belugas goes back to work
17:08:58  <Xaroth> for those who missed it yesterday, I updated AutoTTD to :
17:09:15  <petern> home!
17:12:14  <Patrick> argh
17:12:38  <Patrick> I've proven that operating a line at a greater train density than the traffic jam self-propogation
17:12:45  <Patrick> is a PAIN IN THE ARSE
17:12:50  <Patrick> it's like juggling babies
17:13:42  <petern> pom pom pom
17:13:55  <Belugas> ANYTHING is les painfull than dealing with babies
17:13:59  <Belugas> believe me
17:14:09  <Bjarni> I disagree
17:14:17  <Belugas> a cup of coffee petern?
17:14:19  <Bjarni> and I will prove you wrong
17:14:26  * Bjarni kicks Belugas in the groin region
17:14:32  <Belugas> show me the picture of your son, Bjarni
17:14:36  <petern> nah, beer :D
17:14:50  <De_Ghosty> you could build buffers into the tracks :o
17:14:51  <petern> although
17:14:51  <Belugas> beer makes you sleepy :P
17:14:54  <petern> i have water right now
17:14:56  <petern> oh right yeah
17:14:58  <petern> hmm
17:14:59  <Bjarni> ...
17:15:00  <petern> tea
17:15:00  <petern> :D
17:15:03  <petern> hmm
17:15:11  * petern practices
17:15:12  <Bjarni> I don't recall ever telling Belugas about my son
17:15:31  <Bjarni> Belugas: what can you tell me about him?
17:17:13  <Belugas> that's the whole point, Bjarni. :D you did not lived the baby crisis at 21:00h, 23:00h, 2:00h, 4:00h and all other variations/additions for over a year and a half ;)
17:17:30  <Belugas> tea is good :D
17:19:21  <Bjarni> ...
17:19:33  * Bjarni wonders why Belugas presumes all children to be male
17:20:08  <Belugas> son... daughter... a baby is a baby.  sorry... i wrote "son" out of habit :)
17:21:03  <frosch123> omg, anyone ever used an editor that terminates on ctrl-c :/
17:21:14  <Bjarni> yeah
17:21:32  <Bjarni> I used one yesterday
17:21:33  <Bjarni> I think
17:21:39  * Bjarni checks
17:21:42  <glx> would be fun on windows :)
17:21:55  <frosch123> I mean without asking!
17:22:03  <Bjarni> hmm
17:22:06  <Bjarni> didn't terminate
17:22:18  <Bjarni> but I'm pretty sure I tried one at one time
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17:22:32  <Bjarni> maybe it was an earlier version
17:22:56  <Bjarni> mac has the benefit of not copying text with control-c though
17:23:12  <Wolf01> hola
17:23:54  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16136 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix (r16095)[FS#2858]: sometimes autorail wouldn't work; seems to be primarily for OSX users though
17:24:09  <petern> special
17:25:25  <Rubidium> frosch123: does sed count as an editor?
17:25:56  <frosch123> yes, my favorite one :)
17:27:42  <Rubidium> then I've used an editor that terminates on ctrl-c
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17:29:02  * Bjarni wonders when somebody will make a macrovirus to tell MS Word to terminate on ctrl-c
17:29:14  <Bjarni> that would be annoying
17:31:42  <Wolf01> another annoying thing is the number of hotkeys presets on visual studio, I use ctrl+\ for the ~ (since I don't have it on my keyboard and fn+alt+0126 doesn't work, and I take less time copying it from the charmap if I need to enable the numlock)
17:31:42  <Forked> nah.. it should empty the clipboard on ctrl-v as well as empty the undo log when you use ctrl-z
17:33:21  <Belugas> hotkeys for debugging are not the same in MSVC or in Delphi IDE
17:33:29  * Belugas is all confused
17:34:04  <Wolf01> luckily you can change the preset, I'm used with VB6 hotkeys since I use it @work
17:34:22  <Wolf01> and I cleared almost all other ctrl+something hotkeys
17:44:09  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r16137 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
17:44:09  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-04-24 17:43:46
17:44:09  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: catalan - 15 fixed by arnaullv (15)
17:44:09  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: czech - 2 changed by Hadez (2)
17:44:09  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: estonian - 28 changed by kristjans (28)
17:44:09  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: german - 2 changed by planetmaker (2)
17:44:11  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 32 fixed by Gubius (32)
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17:49:48  <planetmaker> Rubidium: why should autorail not have worked primarily for OS-X users?
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17:50:16  <planetmaker> neither Ammler nor SmatZ use it, do they?
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17:50:34  <Rubidium> thought Ammler was OSX
17:50:42  <Rubidium> for Ammler is was totally broken
17:50:58  <Rubidium> if it was totally broken for Windows people would've complained way earlier
17:50:58  <planetmaker> it's linux
17:51:22  <Rubidium> for SmatZ it works fine, but with graphical glitches
17:51:27  <planetmaker> I had the probably the same glitches as SmatZ
17:51:28  <Rubidium> only leaves OSX ;)
17:51:32  <planetmaker> :P
17:52:07  <planetmaker> Ammler's computer runs SuSE linux
17:52:29  <Rubidium> odd, cause the code flow for that should be exactly the same
17:52:40  <planetmaker> yeah.
17:52:41  <Rubidium> ah well... it's just that stuff is usually broken for OSX ;)
17:52:50  <planetmaker> :S
17:53:05  <frosch123> Rubidium: It also did not work for me, when clicking very fast/short
17:53:36  <frosch123> like unpressing the mousebutton before OnTimeout or so
17:53:46  <planetmaker> from what I saw, I guess it might have been an issue, if this computer was slower with the test game
17:54:01  <planetmaker> anyway. Doesn't matter actually :)
17:54:27  <planetmaker> it's just that you seem to develop a mac antipathy as my boss ;)
17:57:53  <Rubidium> nah, more big stupid corporations
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17:59:02  <LUADuck> Silly autobans!
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18:58:15  <Belugas> o_O
18:58:19  <Belugas> no wonder it fails...
18:58:30  <Belugas> i forgot to insert the new route as permanent
18:58:36  <Belugas> a\i rebooted and ... booo
18:58:38  <Belugas> gone
18:58:51  * Belugas kicks himself
19:21:20  <petern> you better give up and go home
19:23:13  <Belugas> lol
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19:43:17  <Belugas> Kinda I want To
19:49:18  <fjb> "... binaries for all platforms availlable..."  Looks like I'm not using any platform.
19:53:37  <Rubidium> then you're using an unknown platform (to OpenTTD)
19:55:23  <fjb> I was citing Ammler...
19:57:15  <Rubidium> that I knew
19:57:35  <Rubidium> it's equally strange as a release candidate of a beta
19:59:20  <fjb> Yes, a bit strange. I never thought to find a binary for my platform. But "all" is "all". :-)
20:01:50  <frosch123> hmm, btw. on freebsd: do you also have to preceed every command with a 'g' do get a useful tool? (ggrep, gpatch, gdiff, ...)
20:02:44  <glx> frosch123: that's a known fact :)
20:02:50  <Rubidium> then start greebsd
20:03:57  * Alberth was thinking gnubsd, but both sides won't like that :p
20:05:39  <fjb> Useful commands don't start with a "g". Most commands starting with a "g" are a pain (e.g. gtar).
20:07:50  <frosch123> don't know, hardly use tar. but can you grep subdirectory recursively? can you create unified diffs? and can you apply them somewhere else (without the 'g' tool)
20:08:22  <frosch123> resp. does patch say more than 'failed'
20:08:56  <fjb> Ofcourse all that works.
20:09:54  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
20:09:54  <frosch123> ok, thanks :) I needed to know whether the 'g' stuff is the only sane stuff out there, or whether solaris is the only crap out there :p
20:11:07  <fjb> Solaris is a bit crappy sometimes. "g" stuff is always different from the rest of the UNIX world, but it is not always better or saner. :-)
20:12:18  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
20:12:23  <fjb> But "g" stuff is usually cluser to Solaris (System V) than to BSD.
20:12:32  <fjb> closer
20:23:43  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:33:53  <Belugas> fuck
20:33:54  <Belugas> again
20:34:06  <Prof_Frink> OK.
20:34:24  <Belugas> before Chip N Pin : transaction type : Swiped, Manual
20:34:39  <Belugas> now : Swiped, Manual, Contactless, Inserted
20:34:46  <Belugas> youhou
20:34:56  <Belugas> my fucntion was just a boolean
20:34:58  <Belugas> youhou
20:35:14  <Belugas> so i need a new function export for the library
20:35:18  <Belugas> youhou
20:41:03  <petern> :s
20:41:15  <Prof_Frink> :t
20:41:24  <petern> :u
20:41:51  <Prof_Frink> :wq
20:43:51  <petern> :x
20:46:20  * Wolf01 > /dev/null
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20:59:46  *** Sacro is now known as Shinarkoo
21:05:54  <Belugas> time to go home boyz and ... men
21:06:07  <Wolf01> bye Belugas
21:07:07  <planetmaker> bye Belugas
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21:36:35  <planetmaker> good night
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21:49:15  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:27:36  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16138 /trunk/src/ (map.cpp map_func.h newgrf_industries.cpp): -Codechange: move GetClosestWaterDistance to map*
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22:45:05  <TrueBrain> pompiedom
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23:34:29  <Sacro> zomg he was here D:
23:36:36  <TrueBrain> who?
23:36:37  <TrueBrain> what?
23:36:39  <TrueBrain> where?
23:36:40  <TrueBrain> why?
23:36:42  <TrueBrain> when?
23:38:00  <Zr40> how?
23:38:08  <TrueBrain> doesn't start with a w :p
23:38:14  <Zr40> it's hiding at the end
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23:45:44  <goodger> correlatives don't have to begin with w, you know
23:54:01  <petern> wherefore

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