Log for #openttd on 1st May 2009:
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01:12:13  <man9o0> hio
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01:14:53  <kkb110> I'm looking the source code these days but it seems most of the functions are not documented'
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02:53:27  <Belugas> functions? not documented? where? how? can't believe that...
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03:35:15  <kkb110> Belugas : for example :
03:35:45  <kkb110> most of the functions are just black (not blue linked with description)
03:37:47  <glx> probably very old code
03:38:01  <glx> we try to document stuff when we add it
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03:40:44  <kkb110> but economy.cpp is the one of main logic that handles almost all money flows
03:41:10  <kkb110> It's hard for me to figure out how money works...
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06:34:30  <TrueBrain> morning
06:38:08  <guru3> good morning
06:38:26  <guru3> random question: if your software has too many features, you're suffering from feature...?
06:39:13  <TrueBrain> bloatware
06:39:28  <guru3> bloat
06:39:28  <TrueBrain>
06:39:30  <guru3> that's good
06:39:42  <TrueBrain> but that is more aimed at resource-hungry
06:39:46  <TrueBrain> than future-hungry
06:40:06  <TrueBrain>
06:40:30  <TrueBrain> "In modern usage, the term "Baroque" may still be used, usually pejoratively, describing works of art, craft, or design that are thought to have excessive ornamentation or complexity of line, or, as a synonym for "Byzantine", to describe literature, computer software, contracts, or laws that are thought to be excessively complex, indirect, or obscure in language, to the extent of concealing or confusing their meaning."
06:40:33  <guru3> i'm doing a review of the software i wrote for my dissertation
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06:43:46  <TrueBrain> it is a common problem nowedays .. resource-hungry even more .. nobody seems to care, if an app consumes 100+ memory ..
06:44:04  <TrueBrain> I am working with 16bit apps at the moment .. those apps are brilliant :)
06:44:08  <guru3> :D
06:44:19  <guru3> php isn't very memory friendly
06:44:27  <guru3> which is why server side it can eat 100M+ of ram
06:44:40  <guru3> that's just the price you pay for 100,000 point datasets :/
06:44:44  <guru3> at least that's what i'm writing
06:45:01  <TrueBrain> it is more that you can't build efficient memory models in PHP :p
06:45:10  <TrueBrain> everything is an object, a black box, you know nothing about :(
06:45:29  <guru3> i could maybe have done it in something like python or perl
06:45:35  <guru3> but i don't know enough about using those as cgis
06:46:02  <TrueBrain> hmmm .. 'gdb' fails to give me a normal backtrace :(
06:46:27  <guru3> well... that can't be good
06:47:15  <petern> feh
06:47:20  <petern> i used to write cgis in c
06:47:31  * guru3 notes you also work on openttd
06:47:44  <petern> i didn't back then
06:47:54  <guru3> :o
06:48:06  <petern> hehe, the adminstrator would keep deleting them as foreign binaries :p
06:48:10  <guru3> my excuse is that i'm not doing a computer related degreen
06:48:16  <guru3> *degree
06:48:21  <guru3> so they have no reason to expect miracles
06:58:29  <kkb110> TrueBrain : Did you compile with -g?
06:58:34  <TrueBrain> dah
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07:03:05  <TrueBrain> oh well, many prinfs do the same ..
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07:06:50  <TrueBrain> haha ... 'goto *l' instead of 'goto _goto_table[l]'
07:06:58  <TrueBrain> minor difference ... no wonder gdb couldn't track it :)
07:07:48  <petern> oh, evil use of goto :s
07:07:55  <TrueBrain> evil they are :)
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07:13:30  <Laurens> good morning everybody
07:14:07  <guru3> good morning
07:14:22  <Laurens> :P
07:14:45  <dihedral> no way - guru3 ??
07:14:53  <guru3> shock, I know
07:15:03  <dihedral> it is so seldom one gets to see you actually DO something here :-P
07:15:16  <guru3> minor details
07:15:20  <guru3> I am a perrenial idler
07:15:29  <guru3> but i've been up since 6 am working
07:15:36  <guru3> and so am incredibly bored
07:15:58  <dihedral> hehe
07:16:14  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody told you it's a holiday?
07:16:18  <guru3> i did get a good 5 subsections of my dissertation written though
07:16:32  <guru3> holiday? :o
07:17:50  <dihedral> that's what happens to idlers ^^
07:17:58  <dihedral> but i myself have to work too :-(
07:18:05  <dihedral> got a project to finish :-P
07:18:05  <Forked> meep.
07:18:08  <guru3> ive got lectures in 40 minutes
07:18:08  <dihedral> moop
07:18:13  <dihedral> oh yuck
07:18:21  <dihedral> you dont get the 1. of may off? :-P
07:18:25  <dihedral> :-D
07:18:26  <Laurens> hahah:P
07:18:31  <guru3> not in england it seems
07:18:38  <dihedral> hihi - no you dont :-P
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07:18:49  <petern> we have monday off
07:19:02  <guru3> which i only found out about yesterday
07:19:56  <Laurens> we have monday + tuesday off :P
07:20:22  * dihedral has a python prob with ccsm :-(
07:20:31  <Laurens> :P
07:20:39  <dihedral> not funny
07:20:44  <Laurens> it is :P
07:20:49  <petern> cisco certified sexy momma?
07:20:55  <dihedral> i get an exception as soon as i try to click one of those buttons :-(
07:21:03  <dihedral> petern, are you at it again?
07:21:08  <dihedral> was yesterday not enough :-P
07:21:56  <Laurens> dihedral you all day long on?
07:21:59  <Laurens> :p
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07:25:11  <Laurens> lol its quiet here...
07:25:22  <Laurens> only the ttd music plays :P
07:32:05  <guru3> wcpe for me
07:33:17  <guru3>
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07:33:58  <dihedral> guru3: cute!!
07:34:56  <guru3> eh?
07:37:02  <dihedral> ^^
07:37:16  <guru3> i don't see how that's cute
07:37:17  <guru3> but OK
07:37:48  <guru3> i'm off to lectures now
07:37:50  <guru3> see you all later!
07:42:16  <Laurens> anyone excited to play a multiplayer game?
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07:43:02  <Laurens> :( nobody?
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07:44:22  <Laurens> dihedral not?
07:44:56  <dihedral> you can feel free to play on my server, but i myself dont play
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07:47:36  <Alberth> good morning, glad to see more people alive at this time.
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07:59:37  <dihedral> Alberth: you killed them :-P
07:59:45  <dihedral> as soon as you show up everything goes silent :-P
08:00:08  <Alberth> yeah, I noticed :(
08:00:24  * dihedral pats Alberth on the head
08:01:39  * Alberth hugs dihedral
08:02:15  <dihedral> :')
08:02:31  <dihedral> you are sqeezing tears out of me... stop that ^^
08:03:09  * Alberth stops hugging dihedral
08:06:32  <petern> pom te pom
08:06:56  * petern waits for his legs to recover from the gruelling 3 mile bike ride :p
08:07:03  <Eddi|zuHause> how difficult would it be to place signals on waypoint tiles?
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08:08:15  <Alberth> not if you remove the waypoint first, but I guess that solution would be too obvious :p
08:08:23  <petern> hehe
08:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'd much rather have signals and waypoints on tile edges...
08:09:05  <petern> you need 8 bits i think
08:09:52  <Eddi|zuHause> what do you need that many bits for? there cannot be two trackbits on a waypoint tile
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08:15:09  <Eddi|zuHause> hm. you might get away with 7, i think
08:16:25  <Eddi|zuHause> "signal present/direction" 2 bits, "signal state" 2 bits, "signal type" 3 bits. or am i missing something?
08:17:29  <dihedral> why on earth do you need 2 bits for the direction?
08:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause> forward, backward?
08:18:30  <dihedral> that's 1 bit for me
08:18:34  <dihedral> 0|1
08:18:44  <Eddi|zuHause> not track direction. signal direction.
08:18:54  <Eddi|zuHause> you can have both
08:19:25  <dihedral> true ^^
08:19:31  <Eddi|zuHause> two way block signals
08:20:23  <dihedral> i said nothing ^^
08:21:55  <frosch123> as waypoints have a pool you have lots of space anyway, though not neccessarily with good performance
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08:28:09  <Eddi|zuHause> waypoints on diagonal track bits opens a whole new can of worms :p
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08:29:16  <Laurens> hey i'm back :P
08:29:21  <petern> oh god
08:29:51  <Alberth> how does one get a list of changed files between two branches in a hg repo?
08:30:47  <dihedral> uh - i did that once, but cannot remember
08:31:56  <dihedral> hehe - still need to make a bug report on fs ^^
08:32:03  <dihedral> same disconnect thing
08:32:06  <dihedral> :-P
08:32:27  <Eddi|zuHause> easiest way is probably "hg diff | grep +++"
08:32:48  <dihedral> between 2 branches
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08:33:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you telling me you can't diff two branches?
08:33:48  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: that's what I do currently, but 'hg st' gives slightly more output
08:34:18  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause: sure you can, however hg diff does not do that on its own
08:34:21  <Alberth> yes I can, but I usually don't want the details, just a list.
08:34:48  <Alberth> yeah, and neither can you do 'hg -r other st' :(
08:36:27  <dihedral> --rev?
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08:36:51  <Alberth> -r == --rev
08:37:12  <dihedral> i cannot remember what i did, so i aint gonna try ^^
08:37:20  <dihedral> perhaps planetmaker can help you ^^
08:37:32  <dihedral> or Aali
08:37:39  <dihedral> or Yorick if you are desperate ^^
08:38:17  <Alberth> tnx
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08:42:17  <dihedral> you are very welcome
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08:42:57  <osse> Hi, guys
08:44:57  <dihedral> sup
08:48:20  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16192 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Moving smallmap and extra viewport widget enums out of the window structs, completing smallmap enum.
08:50:19  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16193 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Added nested widgets for smallmap and extra viewport windows.
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08:51:29  <osse_> should "svn checkout svn:// [folder]" give me the source to 0.7.0? It says "Checked out revision 16191." when it's finished
08:52:42  <dihedral> yes
08:52:45  <dihedral> that is correct
08:52:48  <dihedral> and that is alright
08:53:13  <dihedral> the source of 0.7.0 is then in [folder] ^^
08:53:45  <osse_> But then why does it say "Checked out revision 16191"?
08:53:57  <Alberth> that's the current revision of the repo
08:54:06  <dihedral> osse_: read a subversion book ;-)
08:54:11  <dihedral> or man svn
08:54:20  <osse_> Ahh, I get it now.
08:54:28  <osse_> Thanks
08:54:34  <dihedral> ;-)
08:55:00  <Alberth> osse_: svn info [folder]  gives you details when the last change was made
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08:56:14  <osse_> Yup, it's says Last Changed Rev: 15913.
08:59:48  <Eddi|zuHause> by convention, "tags" should never be changed
09:00:15  <dihedral> people exist who dont understand that ..... i have some of those at work ^^
09:00:36  <dihedral> and some people tag trunk, and then make the release specific changes
09:01:45  <Eddi|zuHause> hm. i have an uptime of 42 days
09:02:05  <dihedral> i had 32 days on my laptop :-P
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09:18:21  <petern> obviously didn't read, last night
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09:48:39  <dihedral> booooring
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09:50:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you say that every day?
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10:13:57  <dihedral> no
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10:18:51  <Eddi|zuHause> [Mi Jan 7 2009] [09:52:53] <dihedral>   booooring
10:18:53  <Eddi|zuHause> [Do Feb 26 2009] [23:40:34] <dihedral>  borring
10:18:54  <Eddi|zuHause> [Di Apr 28 2009] [08:55:46] <dihedral>  booooring
10:18:56  <Eddi|zuHause> [Fr Mai 1 2009] [11:48:45] <dihedral>   booooring
10:19:19  <Eddi|zuHause> and that's not even all of it
10:21:32  <dihedral> well that proves it's not every day
10:21:55  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's twice within 4 days
10:22:16  <dihedral> and 4 times withing 5 months :-P
10:23:17  <frosch123> 4 times in less than 4 months
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10:39:09  <fjb> Hello
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10:54:01  <petern> grrr, fucking vbv
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11:12:36  <petern> lol
11:12:40  <petern> this guy with the web service
11:12:46  <petern> is... turning the server off over the weekend
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11:16:52  <petern> and he's not included a private key in the data hash, lol
11:17:39  <dihedral> hehe
11:18:31  <petern> so it's pointless having
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11:24:37  <Alberth> s/he's/he has/
11:26:52  <Eddi|zuHause> how is "he's" not a proper contraction of "he has"?
11:29:03  <Alberth> "it's" means "it is" afaik, so why would "he's" mean "he has" instead of "he is"?
11:29:06  <petern> he'd've done it if he'd known what he was doing
11:29:20  <petern> "it's fallen off"
11:29:23  <petern> it has
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11:39:18  <frosch123> he'd'ven't used ' so often, if he'd've known better
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11:40:45  <Wolf01> hello workers
11:41:40  <frosch123> who works here?
11:41:43  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that looks really wrong :p
11:42:10  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: I doubt there is no interpretation of all those ' which is valid
11:43:03  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't change how it looks ;)
11:43:28  <frosch123> that's why I wrote it :p
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11:44:21  <Eddi|zuHause> but i think it should be "he'dn't've"
11:45:01  <jonty-comp> what port does bananas use?
11:45:07  <jonty-comp> I need to tunnel it through this ssh
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11:45:58  <Eddi|zuHause> @ports
11:45:58  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
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11:46:14  <Eddi|zuHause> should maybe be mentioned there
11:46:21  <jonty-comp> why how clever
11:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't meant for you.
11:47:09  <Eddi|zuHause> was meant for $admin of $bot.
11:48:00  <frosch123> NETWORK_CONTENT_SERVER_PORT   = 3978, ///< The default port of the content server (TCP)
11:48:59  <frosch123> 'so it's the 'same
11:49:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i's that 'so?
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12:15:28  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... orion 2 with telepathic is too easy...
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12:16:57  * frosch123 likes telepathic as you do not have to build troops all the time
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12:20:03  <frosch123> though telepathic combined with "union"-government is cheating, otoh it appears quite logical at first
12:20:44  <Eddi|zuHause> because of the conquered citizens?
12:20:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i hardly ever not played union
12:21:12  <Eddi|zuHause> union, cybernetic, telepathic -> "we are borg" ;)
12:21:15  <frosch123> yup, they integrate them quite slowly :)
12:22:04  <Eddi|zuHause> cybernetic is cool, because you can support 12 people on toxic planets, which you cannot terraform
12:22:37  <frosch123> also you can live with the farm quite long without having to terraform at all
12:23:07  <frosch123> i.e. no need to research biological stuff
12:23:12  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a little bad if you are uncreative and nobody has farms...
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12:23:41  <Eddi|zuHause> the AI tends to research all the same technologies
12:23:53  <frosch123> I never played uncreative. I dislike to have luck and  badluck
12:24:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it's better than low-g-planet
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12:26:18  * frosch123 also usually played with omniscient to avoid to have restart the game just after 5 turns because your only colony ship meet some animal :)
12:27:43  <Eddi|zuHause> easy solution: take a planet 3 turns away, so you can reload the initial autosave ;)
12:27:55  <frosch123> still annoying
12:28:46  <Eddi|zuHause> or play a pre-warp civilisation
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12:33:52  <frosch123> pre-warp is also luck. as your success heavily depends on the number of planets in your home system
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12:42:08  <fjb> Which game are you talking about?
12:43:08  <el_en> Well clearly pre-warp sucks in OpenTTD too.
12:43:52  <Aali> pre-warp sucks IRL
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13:17:11  <Belugas> hello
13:18:07  <fjb> Hello Belugas
13:18:24  <Wolf01> hello Belugas
13:21:06  <Belugas> good day guys
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15:18:29  <Belugas> Moriarty Moriarty... always so simple with you :(
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15:34:04  <TrueBrain_> Belugas: some things never change
15:37:37  <Belugas> sadly...
15:37:56  <Belugas> luckily, her did not mentionned XML based scheme...
15:38:03  <Belugas> -her+he
15:38:09  <TrueBrain_> well, that is an improvement
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15:40:07  <Belugas> old deamon following me even at work@work : "Compile before commiting..."
15:40:15  * Belugas nods at TrueBrain_
15:40:18  <TrueBrain_> :) :)
15:40:20  *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain
15:40:28  <Belugas> he... you have a tail!
15:40:31  <Belugas> mmh.
15:40:32  <Belugas> had
15:41:54  <dihedral> "So, do you think OpenOffice is doen by the OpenTTD team too?" <- LOL
15:43:21  <jonty-comp> and OpenWRT
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15:44:03  <dihedral> yes, jonty-comp, there are many projects to which that would match ^^
15:44:08  <jonty-comp> :D
15:45:08  <Belugas> yeah... "SomeOne" is working like hell
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16:20:45  <qkr> I have a problem, my factory has separate drop and pickup station, but now goods are delivered also to my drop station
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16:22:33  <glx> probably a goods train gone to the drop station
16:22:58  <qkr> how can I fix it?
16:25:22  <qkr> I'm sure no goods train is visiting it now, maybe one passed by it at one time when I ordered trains to depot
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16:28:42  <qkr> come on guys, there must be some way to fix this
16:29:57  <Sacro> qkr: no
16:30:20  <frosch123> you can just remove the station, wait until the sign disappears, rebuild the station, and reassign all trains to it
16:30:57  <KingJ> OTTD could really do with a "reset accepted cargo" option, I had this problem before
16:31:52  <frosch123> noone came up with a good way how to handle that in a non-potential-cheating-way
16:32:15  <frosch123> problem is, what to do with the station rating
16:32:44  <dihedral> qkr, temporary transfer the goods using RVs
16:32:58  <Prof_Frink> cht:resetthisstation
16:33:18  <frosch123> though, hmm, currently I think, maybe just make the station not reaccept the cargo for 5 years
16:33:21  <KingJ> What about a checkbox of accepted goods? Then you can ferry away the excess while rejecting new ones. Seems uncheatish to me ;)
16:34:31  <frosch123> KingJ: all patches that showed up on the forums that provided resetting the cargo acceptance also resetted the rating, so you can always return to 70% rating by clicking it
16:35:15  <Belugas> Prof_Frink: wrong chanel
16:36:04  <Belugas> #5
16:36:07  <Belugas> whoooaaaaaa!!!
16:36:19  <frosch123> are you sure about that channel?
16:36:45  <qkr> removing the station and rebuilding it worked, now my network is stuck with trains though
16:37:20  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: It's hardly my fault that your software doesn't support this functionality.
16:37:44  <Belugas> ... functionality ... ????
16:38:20  <Belugas> frosch123, got a girlfriend? Tell her your going to give her Chanel #5 :D
16:38:35  <TrueBrain> lol @ Belugas
16:38:43  <qkr> damn it's a mess, now 3 of my trains crashed already
16:38:59  <Belugas> Prof_Frink: I bet you're the type of guy who finds it normal that all that is in Patch is moved in Open...
16:39:23  <frosch123> Belugas: sorry, but I do not notice jokes based on single missing characters. at least when you tell them :p
16:39:52  <frosch123> s/tell/type/
16:39:58  <Belugas> :)
16:40:01  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Not really. I don't play either any more.
16:40:49  <frosch123> nihilist!
16:41:51  <Belugas> hoo... so you're just hanging here because we are damned charming :D
16:42:15  <Prof_Frink> That's about it.
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17:17:09  <HackaLittleBit> Hello everybody
17:18:03  <fjb> Hello HackaLittleBit
17:20:03  <HackaLittleBit> I have a problem with depots since FS 2871 does nobody else have problems?
17:20:31  <TrueBrain> since FS 2871 .. now that is a new way of indicating stuff :)
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17:22:08  <Belugas> 2871 is closed
17:22:18  <HackaLittleBit> Just wan't to talk before filing other bug report
17:22:20  <Belugas> dos it mean your problem is fixed but you have not yet retried?
17:22:39  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the new measure of time after A.D. 2101
17:22:45  <Belugas> lol
17:22:46  <HackaLittleBit> Let me explain for a sec.
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17:22:54  <Belugas> please do :)
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17:23:02  <Amr0d> hi
17:23:08  <TrueBrain> hi Amr0d
17:23:24  <Eddi|zuHause> right after war has begun
17:23:31  <TrueBrain> glx: do you have an active email address of igor2 for me?
17:23:46  <glx> hmm not sure
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17:24:02  <glx> but he's on #libgpmi
17:24:12  <HackaLittleBit> I am using very long trains and before they unload in station I first send them to depot at end of station
17:24:15  <TrueBrain> he still didn't move the VPS? :)
17:24:53  <HackaLittleBit> after FS 2871 the order does not change anymore
17:25:07  <HackaLittleBit> I reverted change and everything ok
17:25:18  <TrueBrain> after FS ... why not use a SVN revision? :p
17:26:09  <HackaLittleBit> fs 2871
17:26:43  <TrueBrain> even more as it is a bug report :) Didn't know things change after a bug report :) Ghehe :) But I guess we can assume you meant the fix for the bug
17:26:48  <TrueBrain> @openttd commit 16187
17:26:48  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r16187 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2009-04-29 21:12:30 UTC)
17:26:49  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Fix [FS#2871]: do mark the "go to depot X" order fulfilled when reaching any depot, but only when reaching depot X.
17:26:54  <TrueBrain> so I guess you mean that
17:27:06  <HackaLittleBit> yep
17:27:15  <TrueBrain> the commit message is kind of flawed :p
17:27:53  <HackaLittleBit> So problem not yet solved?
17:28:08  <TrueBrain> I have no idea
17:28:13  <TrueBrain> I was just trying to understand what you were talking about
17:28:24  <TrueBrain> 'after <insert bug report here>' is a bit weird indication of when ;)
17:28:57  <Belugas> HackaLittleBit, have yu tried with the latest nightly?
17:29:04  <Alberth> HackaLittleBit: did you try to delete the order and adding it again, making sure you pointed at the right depot?
17:29:09  <Belugas> i think i vaguely remember something about that
17:30:15  <HackaLittleBit> I am at 16193
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17:30:50  <HackaLittleBit> Albert I try that one
17:31:16  <Alberth> what fs# is that :p
17:32:01  <HackaLittleBit> fs 2871
17:34:54  <frosch123> HackaLittleBit: are you using "go to nearest depot"?
17:37:30  <HackaLittleBit> Alberth fixed it
17:37:49  <Alberth> I did?
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17:38:53  <HackaLittleBit> I did what you told me to do , deleted the order and made new one now it works
17:39:03  <HackaLittleBit> Don't ask me how
17:39:08  <TrueBrain> how?
17:39:26  <HackaLittleBit> thanks everybody
17:39:30  <frosch123> you could have ctrl-clicked on the old order to see where it pointed to
17:39:58  <HackaLittleBit> ok Il reload the game , hold on
17:40:09  <Belugas> invasion on the Ctrl key
17:40:51  <HackaLittleBit> did that and points to correct depot
17:41:13  <HackaLittleBit> the thing is that order looks ok
17:41:39  <HackaLittleBit> simply after going to depot it does not change anymore
17:42:11  <HackaLittleBit> maybe fs 2873 has something to do with that
17:42:50  <frosch123> well, r16187 makes vehicle not skip to the next order when they enter a different depot than the sheduled one
17:42:53  <Alberth> HackaLittleBit: are you also developing DITrack? Those guys also talked in issue numbers
17:43:16  <HackaLittleBit> simply after going to depot it the order stays the same (eg keep on going to depot)
17:45:05  <HackaLittleBit> frosch123: I'll have a more precise look at the issue and I will let you know
17:45:13  <frosch123> does the order work if you skip the orders until you reach the depot order again?
17:45:53  <HackaLittleBit> give me  some minutes and I'll tell you
17:46:21  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: translators * r16194 /trunk/src/lang/ (finnish.txt romanian.txt turkish.txt):
17:46:21  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-05-01 17:45:47
17:46:21  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: finnish - 10 fixed by jpx_ (10)
17:46:21  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: romanian - 22 fixed by kkmic (22)
17:46:21  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: turkish - 11 fixed by Emin (11)
17:51:10  <HackaLittleBit> frosch123 that is the solution, don't know why but after skipping for the first time things start to function again
17:51:39  <frosch123> then it is really weird, and likely unreproducible
17:51:56  <frosch123> you can try to post your savegame on fs, so someone can take a look at it
17:52:10  <HackaLittleBit> ok I'll do that
17:52:30  <HackaLittleBit> Thanks everybody
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17:58:45  <HackaLittleBit> frosh: FS2876
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17:59:25  <frosch123> thanks
17:59:59  <HackaLittleBit> ok byby
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18:03:55  <TrueBrain> glx: some people never change :) (closed the channel and realised I wanted to say that :p)
18:05:11  <glx> hehe, yeah his internal clock is still silly ;)
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18:06:34  <Belugas> mmh?
18:07:46  <TrueBrain> tonight .. I want to do something completely different .. hmm ...
18:08:27  <Wolf01> code a new freature
18:08:32  <Wolf01> *-r
18:09:15  <el_en> request: make the difficulty level window a bit wider so the translated strings fit in it, too.
18:09:19  <TrueBrain> haven't done anything for OpenTTD (the game) in such a long time :p
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18:10:52  <fjb> Stupid cyrus-imapd wants accass to /dev/mem. :-(
18:11:38  <TrueBrain> you can stop after the  'Stupid cyrus-imapd' part
18:11:43  <TrueBrain> no need to type anything after that :p
18:13:11  <Wolf01> TrueBrain, do you want to help me to migrate the server to linux? I have a lot of services running on it and I really want to keep them all plus some new ones :P
18:13:45  <TrueBrain> haha, only if you pay me ;)
18:15:07  <Wolf01> I need only somebody which keeps me awake :)
18:15:31  <TrueBrain> I am not your coffee attended :)
18:16:05  <frosch123> hmm, maybe fs#2871 was a bad idea of planetmaker
18:16:21  <Amr0d> hmm wasn't there a command to get the pw for the coop server?
18:16:45  <Alberth> Amr0d: not here
18:16:51  <el_en> I'm on Linux, and OTTD asks me if I want to return to *Unix*.  But GNU's not Unix, and neither is Linux!  What to do?
18:16:59  <fjb> TrueBrain: What are you using? Dovecot?
18:17:06  <Amr0d> where can i find the pw then?
18:17:14  <Eddi|zuHause> el_en: stay within OTTD
18:17:15  <Alberth> el_en: don't touch anything, leave it alone
18:17:19  <TrueBrain> fjb: does
18:17:45  <TrueBrain> el_en: hit the wall with your head as hard as you can
18:17:46  <Alberth> Amr0d: wild guess: #openttdcoop possibly maybe?
18:17:52  <Belugas> Wolf01 -> Nine Inch Nails.  here's your coffee
18:17:59  <Amr0d> oh
18:18:12  <Amr0d> ok wrong channel here :)
18:18:17  <el_en> On the other hand, on the Mac OTTD asks if I want to return to Mac OS X... But Mac is more Unix than Linux is, and actually 10.5/Intel is a UNIX®.
18:18:17  <fjb> TrueBrain: Then I should consider switching to Dovecot.
18:18:27  <TrueBrain> fjb: only if you have a small network
18:18:33  <TrueBrain> courier-imapd if it is getting a bit bigger
18:18:39  <TrueBrain> big networks: get to know courier-imap :)
18:18:57  <fjb> It is quite small, but might grow.
18:19:39  <Alberth> el_en: if you interpret 'Unix' as 'POSIX-compliant computer system' your worries are over.
18:20:17  <el_en> Alberth: should i hit the wall with my head despite that, just to be sure?
18:20:20  <frosch123> true, then no unix exists
18:20:36  <Alberth> el_en: if it makes you feel better, sure go ahead
18:20:52  * fjb is glad to use a true descendant of UNIX. :-)
18:27:06  <TrueBrain> hmm .. still nothing useful to do
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18:27:14  <TrueBrain> maybe I should play OpenTTD .. that might be funny
18:27:27  <frosch123> mhuahaha
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18:28:01  <Amr0d> Anyone playing ottd with a mac here?
18:28:08  <Belugas> TrueBrain : want something interesting to do?  download NINJAM!!
18:28:18  <Belugas> and put your axe on it!!!
18:29:16  <Wolf01> "So, do you think OpenOffice is doen by the OpenTTD team too?" AHAAHA good one Belugas XD
18:31:04  <planetmaker> what? what? I heard my name?
18:32:56  <frosch123> planetmaker: how would you set up the orders in fs#2876 ?
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18:34:01  <planetmaker> he...
18:34:10  <planetmaker> Looks like one problem replaced by another.
18:34:19  <frosch123> exactly :p
18:34:35  <frosch123> also fs#2873 was extended by a second scenario
18:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause> omg, why is the tv program on holidays even worse than on regular days
18:35:18  <planetmaker> hm...
18:35:39  <planetmaker> frosch123: the problem obviously is that depots may have non unique names
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18:36:12  <planetmaker> and you cannot join different depots to a "goto one of <list>" or make <list> a joint depot (as tracks of a station)
18:36:21  <frosch123> planetmaker: no, that is only the cause of the author not understanding the problem
18:36:50  <planetmaker> hm... can you elaborate?
18:37:17  <frosch123> you cannot set up orders so the train first enters one depot behind the station before entering the station itself
18:37:56  <frosch123> it does not matter whether the depots are named "depot A", "depot B"... or just the same
18:38:29  <planetmaker> well. yes. So hackalittlebit basically wants something which cannot work with current implementation.
18:38:35  <planetmaker> as he would need a choice
18:38:42  <frosch123> yup :)
18:39:11  <planetmaker> and the "waiting for free path thing"? How's that related?
18:39:42  <frosch123> so next topic: "go to nearest depot" currently decides for one depot and then goes to that depot. is the order fulfilled if it reaches another depot?
18:40:06  <planetmaker> I would say "nearest depot" is any depot or next depot.
18:40:11  <planetmaker> from my understanding.
18:40:26  <planetmaker> so, yes
18:40:54  * Belugas smiles at Wolf01
18:41:14  <frosch123> [20:39] <planetmaker> and the "waiting for free path thing"? How's that related? <- I mean the "catch_me_if_you_can"
18:41:51  <frosch123> would also be solved if "go to nearest depot"-orders would be allowed to reach other depots than the one they decided earlier
18:42:14  <planetmaker> frosch123: "nearest depot" should be considered, if any depot is entered. IMHO
18:42:19  <Belugas> by the way... newobjets... unmovalbles are so boring to handle...
18:42:27  <planetmaker> *considered fulfilled
18:42:44  <planetmaker> Belugas: then invent obstacles :D
18:43:02  <Belugas> hmm?
18:43:20  <planetmaker> if it's boring: make it more complicated, less intuitive --> more fun maybe?
18:43:22  <planetmaker> ;)
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18:43:39  <Belugas> sorry.. i meant... current unmovables
18:43:53  <Belugas> lighthouses, transmitters statues and such
18:44:30  <planetmaker> he :)
18:44:53  <planetmaker> introduce an ent: an unmovable tree which randomly moves itself.
18:45:05  <planetmaker> frosch123: interesting savegame :)
18:45:13  <Eddi|zuHause> ents are not trees
18:47:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: why not simply convert the old unmovables to newobjects?
18:48:15  * frosch123 << food
18:48:25  <planetmaker> enjoy, frosch123 :)
18:48:42  <frosch123> <- or if you want
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18:49:01  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause : that's what i'm doing :)
18:49:10  <Belugas> and that is why i say they are boring
18:49:15  <planetmaker> :)
18:49:40  <planetmaker> I'll check it, frosch123 :)
18:49:48  <Eddi|zuHause> so you have a solution but it is tedious work that does not lead anywhere?
18:55:00  <Belugas> solution is there, conversion is already in good progress,  but it's like... head scratching
18:55:21  <Belugas> with industries, it was quite evident what make one different from another
18:55:29  <Belugas> but not as much as for unmovables
18:55:50  <Belugas> by far...
18:59:32  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like, each one has vastly different side effects?
19:00:54  <Belugas> no, just the opposite
19:01:27  <Belugas> there are so few differences hat it's hard to work it out
19:01:52  <Belugas> like...
19:02:01  <Belugas> lighthouses are near coasts
19:02:02  <Belugas> cool...
19:02:07  <Belugas> but that's it
19:02:20  <Belugas> transmitters?  ABSOLUTELY nothing special
19:02:41  <Belugas> welll.  apart from the tha fact both cvannot be deleted, of course...
19:02:44  <Belugas> same for statues
19:03:02  <Belugas> statues can be placed only in town
19:03:09  <Belugas> and not manually
19:03:22  <Eddi|zuHause> the difference for lighthouses and transmitters are in the placement routine
19:03:30  <Belugas> yup
19:03:34  <Belugas> and that's boring
19:04:36  <Belugas> i would like to be 2 months ahead and be able to do some more interesting stuff on objects
19:06:08  <planetmaker> <-- frosch123 , what about these orders then (with your patch applied)?
19:06:46  <planetmaker> frosch123: what would be a sensible solution? It seems that the 3rd is skipped always...
19:07:48  <TrueBrain> Belugas: I don't have a mic, nor a bigjack to smalljack convertor :( :( :(
19:14:43  <frosch123> planetmaker: not if the train waits longer than the service interval at the station
19:15:23  <frosch123> I do not see what is wrong with that
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19:25:06  <planetmaker> frosch123: well, I never see the train go for service (e.g. order 3).
19:25:26  <frosch123> because you service it every few days :p
19:25:31  <planetmaker> Shouldn't that be done despite? And along with that maybe the 1st be skipped?
19:25:48  <planetmaker> frosch123: but if I explicitly order it serviced?!
19:25:49  <frosch123> set the service interval to 30 days and stop the trains for 30 days at the station
19:26:46  <planetmaker> ok, probably there's my understanding wrong, but explicit service orders are not carried out, if the service interval isn't reached?
19:27:14  <frosch123> there is a combobox with "always go", "service if needed" and "stop in depot"
19:28:18  <planetmaker> oh... that was off my radar. Thanks :)
19:28:57  <frosch123> you should play with breakdowns more often :p
19:29:14  <planetmaker> he... I found a translation... not error, but insufficiency :)
19:29:36  <planetmaker> it shouldn't say "Wartung", but "evtl. Wartung" or alike
19:30:02  <frosch123> to bad you cannot blame the translator :p
19:30:18  <planetmaker> hehe :)
19:30:52  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16195 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Even empty widgets should live within window boundaries.
19:31:30  <planetmaker> he... I need a bigger button ;)
19:31:49  <frosch123> you can resize the window
19:31:56  <frosch123> (in trunk)
19:32:21  <planetmaker> yes. But default size matters :)
19:32:56  <frosch123> "default size matters" sounds unusual
19:33:28  <TrueBrain> I thought we left that porn discussion behind us :p
19:34:09  <frosch123> interesting, which state TrueBrain considers "default"
19:34:11  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16196 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Added nested widgets for non-train and other-companies order windows.
19:35:34  <planetmaker> haha :)
19:35:39  <planetmaker> ggf. Wartung should fit :)
19:36:13  <frosch123> "ggf." sounds wrong
19:36:41  <frosch123> "immer", "falls nötig", "anhalten"
19:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause> "falls Wartung nötig"?
19:38:12  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16197 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Structure buttons of train order window based on related functions rather than position.
19:39:08  <Eddi|zuHause> why are the order windows not unified?
19:40:21  <planetmaker> frosch123: I meant the Button itself. :)
19:40:22  <Alberth> they do share a window struct + code. They just differ in how widgets are layed out.
19:40:59  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, that sounds sensible
19:41:16  <frosch123> planetmaker: the button itself refers to the short-cut action
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19:49:32  <planetmaker> frosch123: right. I guess it's better to change the way the order in the order list is called.
19:49:55  <planetmaker> I think changing it to "Falls nötig, fahre ohne Halt zur Wartung in" makes clear what to expect
19:50:14  <planetmaker> respectively "Falls nötig, Wartung in"
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20:03:06  <TrueBrain> frosch123: do you know why AITileList_IndustryAccepting now returns tiles which does not accept cargo for the industry?
20:03:25  <TrueBrain> as far as I am aware, but okay, my knowledge on this subject is very old, it should return only tiles that ACCEPT the cargo
20:03:30  <TrueBrain> (and not only have 6/8th, or what ever)
20:05:42  <frosch123> 				if (i->accepts_cargo[j] != CT_INVALID && accepts[i->accepts_cargo[j]] != 0) cargo_accepts = true; <- that does not say >= 8
20:05:48  <TrueBrain> exactly my point
20:05:53  <TrueBrain> which makes that function rather silly
20:05:59  <TrueBrain> as it returns tiles which do NOT accept the cargo
20:06:17  <TrueBrain> if my memory is correct, the 'indsp' used before, did start accepting at value 1
20:06:26  <TrueBrain> whereas the cargo in the industry struct, starts at value 8
20:06:30  <TrueBrain> (and is newgrf compatible)
20:06:31  <frosch123> well, but a industry with 8 tiles of 1/8 is fine, so shall there be no tiles?
20:06:33  <TrueBrain> but I might be wrong there ;)
20:06:44  <TrueBrain> frosch123: the function will return tiles :)
20:06:52  <TrueBrain> as there will be a tile which covers all 8 tiles .. and give a value of 8
20:07:05  <TrueBrain> as that is what ::GetAcceptanceAroundTiles should do ;)
20:07:41  <TrueBrain> from that function: for (uint i = 0; i < lengthof(ac); ++i) accepts[i] += ac[i];
20:07:46  <TrueBrain> (mind the += there ;))
20:08:08  <TrueBrain> as in my opinion those 'IsCargoAccepted' functions of AIIndustry and friends are now useless :) It returns un-true information
20:08:49  <frosch123> [22:06] <TrueBrain> if my memory is correct, the 'indsp' used before, did start accepting at value 1 <- that does not change anything, that only refers to the cargo type, not the acceptance
20:08:53  <TrueBrain> " * Creates a list of tiles that will accept cargo for the given industry." <- makes that also untrue :)
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20:10:25  <TrueBrain> frosch123: you are right; so it is broken for a long time I guess ;)
20:10:44  <TrueBrain> I remember I fiddled with this subject a lot while building the NoAI framework .. it was always hard to get a clear line through those things ...
20:10:50  <TrueBrain> 'acceptance' is such a nasty concept within OpenTTD
20:12:37  <TrueBrain> 'make regression' is completely broken :p
20:12:42  <frosch123> so, does changing " != 0" to ">= 8" fix it?
20:12:43  <TrueBrain> asserts SQ :)
20:12:56  <dihedral> # i have a hat like a ping pong ball
20:13:01  <TrueBrain> frosch123: in my opinion it would; but I have to add that it is just my observation of the code and my knowledge of the past :)
20:13:26  <TrueBrain> so you might want to check it with who ever .. ;)
20:13:26  <Eddi|zuHause> you really must be bored :p
20:13:27  <petern> huh?
20:13:31  <petern> acceptance is either on or off
20:13:36  <petern> it's production that is 1/8ths
20:13:48  <TrueBrain> huh? Then there is something serious wrong
20:13:59  <frosch123> I guess petern's memory
20:14:04  <petern> probably :p
20:14:04  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, ^^
20:14:37  <petern> or talking about something else
20:14:38  <TrueBrain> I really wouldn't know if it was production or acceptance which works in 1/8th tile ...
20:14:43  <TrueBrain> tile = cargo
20:14:45  <TrueBrain> ghehe
20:16:12  <frosch123> btw. regression worked last weekend
20:16:20  <TrueBrain> no, petern's memory is indeed wrong ;) :)
20:16:57  <TrueBrain> btw, frosch123, talking about
20:17:24  <TrueBrain> hmm .. now I come to think of it .. I do assume the user made no mistakes
20:17:31  <TrueBrain> but coal either has 8/8 or nothing
20:18:01  <TrueBrain> (doesn't really take the problem away I guess ;) But still :))
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20:20:14  <TrueBrain> either way frosch123, please consider the problem and look it over ;) It was always a nag for me ... :)
20:20:48  <frosch123> will do later :)
20:21:12  <Eddi|zuHause> why is there no mention of the cargo that is tested to be accepted, in the code snippet the guy posted?
20:24:21  <frosch123> the list collects all tiles which accept at least one cargo, not necessary all or a particular one
20:24:30  <frosch123> but that is a question for TrueBrain :p
20:24:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it sounds like asking for trouble...
20:25:33  <Eddi|zuHause> what about stuff like the PBI food processing plant, which has two tiles which accept 4/8 livestock, and two tiles which accept 4/8 grain
20:25:38  <Belugas> TroubleBrain ?
20:26:32  <Eddi|zuHause> you could end up with a station accepting the wrong cargo, or no cargo at all, because you got 4/8 of each
20:29:27  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: no, it is not that wrong :p
20:29:42  <frosch123> it does not sum acceptance of different cargo types
20:29:57  <petern> gah
20:30:00  <petern> the problem with IS
20:30:05  <petern> is that nobody else uses PBS properly :p
20:30:18  <Eddi|zuHause> haha ;)
20:30:34  <frosch123> "no idots, except me"
20:31:10  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: <- take a look yourself :p
20:31:34  <TrueBrain> frosch123: tnx :)
20:33:00  <frosch123> TrueBrain: I have no idea how AIs or the API works, I always have to ask yexo about the intentions of certain functions :)
20:33:08  <Eddi|zuHause> if (!_settings_game.station.modified_catchment) radius = CA_UNMODIFIED; <- why is that line there?
20:33:35  <petern> if not using modified catchment then unmodified catchment is used
20:33:35  <frosch123> to reduce complexity for ais?
20:34:01  <frosch123> well, no idea
20:34:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but shouldn't the "constants" that the AI accesses be changed instead?
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20:39:15  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: changing constants? Sounds like a terrible idea ;)
20:39:24  <TrueBrain> this way the AI becomes much more clear and simple
20:39:35  <TrueBrain> frosch123: hehe, fair enough ;)
20:39:46  <Eddi|zuHause> but what if the AI wants to know a completely different radius?
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20:40:05  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: the function does not allow that
20:40:57  <TrueBrain> (as it is clearly abusing the function; you can to know which tiles accept a cargo of an industry; using 'custom' radius is complete useless in that matter)
20:41:12  <TrueBrain> can = want
20:41:27  <TrueBrain> the NoAI API tries to restrict usage of functions to their intentions
20:41:50  <TrueBrain> to avoid 'abuse' like you suggest, which might not be supported at later stages ;)
20:42:02  <Eddi|zuHause> then why not pass a station type instead of a radius?
20:42:15  <TrueBrain> would be possible too ... if airports weren't so darn annoying
20:42:28  <frosch123> :p
20:42:59  <TrueBrain> (you do realise the NoAI API has a whole history, don't you? Each function is considered, reconsidered, changed, extended, changed again, reconsidered again, changed again and finalized :p)
20:43:18  <TrueBrain> in this case in fact, I did start out with station-type .. but airports fucked that up :p
20:43:21  <Eddi|zuHause> of course ;)
20:43:32  <frosch123> nope, "finalized" is on the roadmap for ottd 1.0
20:43:40  <TrueBrain> frosch123: fair enough :)
20:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i will stop this discussion then ;)
20:43:48  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: nevertheless, asking such questions never hurt ;)
20:44:28  <TrueBrain> I just meant to say that most of those functions, and more: their parameters, have a history of development :)
20:44:42  <NightKhaos> I wish we could construct custom airports, defining your runway(s) and terminals, making them as small (or big) as we require based upon the geography (or surrounding cityscape) of the area.
20:44:59  <TrueBrain> NightKhaos: would be nice yes; so please, create it for us :)
20:45:26  <NightKhaos> Argh... I might be able (MIGHT) to do GRFs... but coding is not my forté.
20:45:56  <TrueBrain> too bad :) I tought we finally found the person to make it ... darn :) :)
20:46:04  <Eddi|zuHause> well, check the development forum, there are several attempts documented there, and even an independent airport designer (afaik)
20:46:47  <frosch123> mhh, somewhen I should dig out my 'first' patch for ottd
20:48:27  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, my first one that was commited to svn was a PBS fix for MiniIN
20:48:48  <frosch123> I am not taking about commited, but about first contact with code
20:49:01  <frosch123> :p
20:49:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i know
20:49:20  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's more difficult to get hold of those
20:49:41  <NightKhaos> I would really want to code in better aircraft management AIs and put in things like wind... would make it more interesting.
20:50:12  <Belugas> i do believe custom-manually created airports would be such a big freaking mess...
20:50:21  <NightKhaos> Then we could make it so if you (or an AI) could rent out a terminal to competiting company.
20:50:35  <NightKhaos> Scale of OTTD is getting to be a problem.
20:50:40  <TrueBrain> Belugas: not when done correctly :) But yeah .. you have to be careful there ;)
20:50:52  <Belugas> yup
20:51:23  <frosch123> a mess wrt. the code, or wrt. gameplay?
20:51:26  <NightKhaos> I'm thinking I would want to redo the entire scale... roads might take up 3 squares wide... rail lines 1.... etc?
20:51:28  <Belugas> and not start coding like a bull viewing a lot of red flags
20:51:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe custom modular airports would generally end up larger than custom grf-designed airports
20:51:47  <Belugas> gameplay, it could very well be a mess
20:51:56  <frosch123> NightKhaos: good luck :) a fundamental assumption in ottd code is that a vehicle is on exactly one tile
20:51:59  <Belugas> code wise... welll... it really depends how it's done
20:52:22  <Belugas> NightKhaos, the last thing that will be done is to change the scale
20:52:37  <Belugas> just before putting all realism possible in the game
20:53:04  <Belugas> reality freak...
20:53:11  <NightKhaos> rail is pretty much on track... apart from that rail should be able to sold to the state.
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20:54:04  <NightKhaos> road is getting better... but we miss things like highways, motorways, traffic...
20:54:10  <Eddi|zuHause> but "state" must still be a player
20:54:22  <Belugas> "WE" ???? Muwhahahaha!!!
20:54:26  <NightKhaos> That wouldn't be hard to implement.
20:54:49  <Belugas> Go ahaed, my dear!  Have Fun Fun Fun!!!
20:54:52  <Eddi|zuHause> for various definitions of "hard"
20:55:12  <NightKhaos> We set the first player to be the "state"... and make it so that "state" owned property is accessible to everyone... non "state" owned protery can be rented...
20:55:42  <NightKhaos> Then you make the state non-playable.
20:55:47  <NightKhaos> Progress.
20:56:44  <oskari89> Speaking of road.. How hard it would be to code several "types" of rail? Like "light" rail which would allow only 80 kph speed, "medium" speed rail which would allow about 160 km/h and high speed rail, 320 kph?
20:56:56  <Belugas> right now?
20:56:59  <Belugas> impossible
20:57:10  <oskari89> Impossible?
20:57:14  <oskari89> Why?
20:57:44  <NightKhaos> you would need to expand the "rail type" sets... not to mention add the speed limit paramter to rail in general, which currently only exsists for bridges.
20:57:48  <NightKhaos> Correct?
20:57:56  <Belugas> there is not a single free bit on the map array for that
20:58:10  <Belugas> not correct at all
20:58:10  <frosch123> oskari89:
20:59:02  <oskari89> Hmm.
20:59:18  <frosch123> the map array support 16 types of railroads
20:59:36  <Belugas> ho... rails... sorry.. i read Roads
20:59:40  <Belugas> only
20:59:48  <Belugas> as trucks-bus
21:00:23  <frosch123> for roads there are enough bits to also add 16 types :)
21:00:30  <Belugas> he??
21:00:37  <Belugas> when did you freed that up???
21:00:43  <frosch123> rb did
21:00:50  <Belugas> ho
21:01:01  <frosch123> he trashed the misterious "third" roadtype
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21:01:12  <Belugas> welll... good
21:01:12  <frosch123> to support 16 primary and 16 second
21:01:52  <oskari89> And no possible to code "speed limit" sign for railroads? Allowing only speed of n km/h until next sign?
21:02:30  <frosch123> oskari89: you can add basically unlimited functionallity to waypoints
21:02:46  <oskari89> Hmmmmm...
21:02:54  <frosch123> the important part of that is "you"
21:03:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i have the strong belief that people will come up with situations where you need 3 road types
21:03:17  <fjb> Hm, a new order "go via ... with maximum speed of..."...
21:03:18  <oskari89> Of course :
21:03:42  <oskari89> ..
21:04:12  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: three independent road types on the same tile? please tell how the graphics should look like
21:04:24  <Eddi|zuHause> for example, a crossing between trolley busses and tramways
21:04:36  <petern> Eddi|zuHause, you can just create a special road type for it
21:05:04  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: wasn't the patch to draw rail catenary on adjacent junctions by you?
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21:05:33  <petern> hmm
21:05:38  <petern> i suppose i should finish off railtypes :p
21:05:48  <fjb> Yes. :-)
21:05:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, kill it ;)
21:06:05  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: don't give him ideas :p
21:06:18  <petern> kill it by making it redundant
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21:08:58  <oskari89> I have experimented with Long reserve pbs signals..
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21:09:54  <oskari89> And i found out that it can be used for single track bidirectional line-blocking, quite realistic feature.
21:09:59  <oskari89>
21:10:45  <oskari89> Now single rail networks could have much more capacity than before.
21:10:59  <TrueBrain> oskari89: only if the speeds of the vehicles on the track are the same
21:11:21  <TrueBrain> (and/or you have breakdowns off)
21:11:30  <oskari89> Not suitable for very large traffic.
21:11:41  <oskari89> Yes.
21:11:47  <TrueBrain> not suitable for 4+ trains :)
21:11:54  <TrueBrain> else you have a pretty nice chance on a dead-lock :)
21:11:57  <Eddi|zuHause> oskari89: what happens if the train on the right leaves the block, and another train reserves the track from the right, before the train on the left extends its reservation?
21:12:29  <oskari89> Well..
21:12:33  <TrueBrain> I still think trains should get a number when they are at a signal, and are handled one by one .. like a FIFO :) That should help in my situations :)
21:12:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i think this blocks way too easily, and has hardly any advantage over a line signalled with regular path signals
21:13:25  <Eddi|zuHause> you can place one path signal on a single track
21:13:54  <oskari89> You can have semi-realistic configuration with normal pbs..
21:13:54  <Belugas> "dear, i'll be late"
21:14:09  * TrueBrain gives Belugas a hug
21:14:11  <TrueBrain> almost weekend :)
21:14:18  <Belugas> yeah...
21:14:35  <Eddi|zuHause> more important than semi-realistic is non-blocking
21:15:02  <TrueBrain> programmable signals are one of the only 'true' solutions to many problems
21:15:09  <TrueBrain> but also increases the complexity of the game with a factor X :p
21:15:12  <TrueBrain> (and the speed :p)
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21:16:02  <oskari89> How difficult it would be to code programmable signals and use them?
21:16:03  <TrueBrain> last week orso I drafted an idea based on OSPF, to auto-balance traffic through blocks you define (which makes signals even more useless)
21:16:31  <Eddi|zuHause> there need to be direction-aware weak reservations
21:17:03  <Belugas> oskari89, i was about to say very hard due to my experience with signals-on-bridges but since trunk moves very fast, i'd say that i do not have a clue right now
21:17:13  <Belugas> althoguh i do believe ti will still be very hard
21:17:26  <TrueBrain> you would need to rewrite most parts that handle signals ... and a GUI :p
21:17:30  <TrueBrain> the latter will be the killer ;)
21:17:38  <Belugas> kidding??
21:17:43  <Belugas> gui would be easy as hell
21:17:49  <TrueBrain> to do that in a nice way?
21:17:58  <TrueBrain> brr .. don't even want to consider that ;)
21:18:01  <Belugas> handling the signals would be much more hellish
21:18:13  <TrueBrain> the approach I can imagine, is relative simple
21:18:18  <TrueBrain> it just is a lot slower :p
21:18:26  <Belugas> sqirel!
21:18:27  <TrueBrain> (as every signal becomes a pool-item)
21:18:49  <oskari89> Hmmmm....
21:19:04  <TrueBrain> what might reduce complexity and slowness, is to make each signal aware of which signals are in his direct neighbour
21:19:20  <TrueBrain> removes the pathfinding part from normal calculations
21:19:35  <TrueBrain> (but: more memory :))
21:19:53  <Belugas> the code handling the updates that SmatZ wrote would be the hardest to adapt
21:20:06  <TrueBrain> Belugas: what do you mean?
21:20:31  <oskari89> Also, i think that what, if there would be 2 types of signal, main signal and a 2-way block signal..
21:20:35  <Belugas> that is waht stopped me to go any further on signal-on-bridges
21:20:39  <Belugas> let me find the file...
21:22:27  <TrueBrain> but okay, I also don't see a real problem in adding custom airports (non-NewGRF)
21:22:30  <Belugas> if i am not mistable :signal.cpp
21:22:42  <TrueBrain> just a helish work to make the state machine work (and self-check)
21:23:37  <oskari89> Main signals would only have permissive aspect when there is other side blocked. (and yet next station main signals on opposite direction showing red)
21:23:46  <Belugas> you'll need a hell more gui magic for custom airports than progammable signals
21:23:56  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a pbs-style reservation system for roads, in order to make narrow roads possible
21:24:36  <Belugas> there should be 10 more devs as good as Rubidium
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21:24:52  <TrueBrain> Belugas: I guess 'time' is more an issue here ;)
21:25:16  <TrueBrain> Belugas: if I read this right, signal.cpp does the segmenting I mentioned
21:25:16  <Belugas> ok... 10 more devs, working 40h/w
21:25:27  <oskari89> :D
21:25:46  <oskari89> And how many weeks? ;)
21:26:09  <Belugas> wiil never end, since users keep on having ideas
21:26:13  <oskari89> :DDD
21:26:17  <TrueBrain> when it pays ;)
21:26:18  <Belugas> bastards
21:27:04  <TrueBrain> oskari89: with time, so many things are possible ...
21:27:48  <planetmaker> I'm playing around with the translation and I'm puzzled: patches/src/lang/german.txt:2658: FATAL: Bad # of arguments for gender command
21:27:53  <Belugas> TrueBrain, yes, it's a segmentation alright
21:27:57  <TrueBrain> but to give a bit of time indication: NoAI took more than 1 year to create. In total 4 people worked on it, with a general of, say, 10 hours a week ...
21:28:01  <planetmaker> STR_GO_TO_DEPOT                                                 :{G 2 {0:STRING.m} {0:STRING.w} {0:STRING.n}} {2:STRING} {1:TOWN}
21:28:16  <Belugas> problem is that it did not want to accept the bridge segemtns i threw to it
21:28:23  <planetmaker> what I want is: choose the case of the 1st string depending upon the gender of the 3rd.
21:28:24  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: command in command .. is that possible?
21:28:31  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: I'm asking :)
21:28:40  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you are mixing genders and cases ... nice ;)
21:28:45  <Wolf01> 'night
21:28:49  <TrueBrain> Belugas: bridges are a bitch ... ;)
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21:29:01  <planetmaker> yes. It's a bit of a mis-use, but... I see no other choice.
21:29:11  <planetmaker> Problem is the quoted string.
21:29:17  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: we have 4 genders
21:30:07  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: doesn't matter. Also with "" as 4th I get the same
21:30:40  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: somehow I just hope it is invalid
21:30:44  <TrueBrain> would be a bitch to add to WT3 :p
21:30:55  <planetmaker> the first parameter can be either "Fahre zu", or "zur Wartung in". But I'd like to have "...zum/zur/zum/zu den" and "/im/in der/im/in den"
21:31:14  <planetmaker> depending upon the gender of the 3rd string.
21:31:29  <planetmaker> e.g. a different 1st string as a function of the 3rd.
21:31:51  <planetmaker> as a function of the gender of the 3rd
21:32:23  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: does it work if you simply compile it with strgen?
21:32:35  <TrueBrain> on that note, you could also write it as: {0:STRING.{G 2 m w n p}}
21:32:36  <TrueBrain> ;)
21:33:30  <TrueBrain> Belugas: signals always will be a puzzle ... so many options :)
21:33:54  <oskari89> Would be possible to have user-programmed signals, that would have programmed linking on any other signals? Like having .. "Signal 1" permissive aspect IF signals ... 3, 4, 5 are red, and no other direction reservation between preconfigured signals?`
21:34:03  <oskari89> In any way? :)
21:34:06  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: what do you mean? Not like make in the usual source dir?
21:34:18  <Eddi|zuHause> nevermind.
21:34:21  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: he meant outside WT2, I guess
21:34:27  <planetmaker> he
21:34:47  <planetmaker> I never compiled strgen. But I'm happy to use that, if it helps
21:35:04  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I wouldn't know how WT2 validates its strings
21:35:28  <TrueBrain> you btw compile strgen every time you do a custom compile :p
21:35:28  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: it's not wt2 which gives me the error. it's make here locally
21:35:36  <TrueBrain> so then you use strgen ....... :p
21:35:38  <Belugas> oskari89...  honestly... you are depressing me a whole lot
21:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause> make uses strgen
21:35:40  <planetmaker> yes :)
21:35:42  <Belugas> incredible
21:35:54  <TrueBrain> Belugas: why?
21:36:21  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something is wrong... civ4 stopped working...
21:36:32  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: no, a feature :)
21:36:37  <oskari89> Belugas: Never mind, just asked how difficult it would be :P
21:36:49  <TrueBrain> oskari89: on a scale from 1 to 10, I would say 15
21:36:53  <Belugas> open the door... just a little bit... then imagination runs absolutely wild with tons and tons of feature requests that might not even be remotely used...
21:36:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i can start it, but when it is finished generating a game, it hangs
21:37:04  <TrueBrain> Belugas: ghehe :) True :)
21:37:18  <Belugas> that's why i'm depressed...
21:37:26  <TrueBrain> Belugas: not that you are still at work? :)
21:37:40  <Belugas> heer... yeah... that does not help...
21:37:48  <TrueBrain> you want a beer?
21:37:58  *** Nuke2 [~NukeBuste@] has quit [Quit:]
21:37:59  <Belugas> virtual? naaa...
21:38:03  <oskari89> :DDD
21:38:09  <TrueBrain> I can't send you a real one, sorry :)
21:38:14  <TrueBrain> wish I could my friend .. wish I could
21:38:20  <TrueBrain> you would get one every week ;)
21:38:34  <Belugas> i've got a real one waiting for me at home, a new one i was planning on tasting tonight
21:38:44  <Belugas> guess it's over the bridge for today :(
21:39:09  <oskari89> But it's a nice thing that PBS was taken to trunk, big thanks from me to all who worked at it :)
21:39:16  <Belugas> TrueBrain, and we'll meet at the same time, cause we'd be not far from each other!
21:39:42  <Belugas> and we'll jam at petern's house on weekends!
21:39:57  <TrueBrain> :) The ideal world ..... ;)
21:40:13  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: I cannot write ":{0:STRING.{G 2 m w n m}} {2:STRING} {1:TOWN}": src/lang/german.txt:2670: FATAL: Invalid case-name '{G 2 m w n m}} {2:STRING} {1:TOWN}'
21:40:23  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: not a real suprise ;)
21:40:33  <planetmaker> nope
21:40:36  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I was more like joking .. that you could write your idea two ways :)
21:41:42  <TrueBrain> I hate jumps that depends on a register setting :(
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21:44:28  <Belugas> how about that... a feature developped rush, over the last 3 hours, never compiled, run perfectly on very first attempt...
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21:44:34  <Belugas> hurray for coffee!
21:44:40  <TrueBrain> Belugas: that is impressive
21:45:18  <Belugas> nope.  it's that voice she had on the phone...
21:45:54  <Eddi|zuHause> having phone sex while at work?
21:46:38  <Belugas> [17:16] <@Belugas> "dear, i'll be late"  <---- not exactly
21:47:16  <TrueBrain> I guess it is one of the less fun things to call home for
21:48:45  <Eddi|zuHause> so then, why are you distracting yourself with IRC? ;)
21:51:21  <Belugas> wait for documentation approbation, wait for compiling, wait for app to launch...
21:51:32  <Belugas> need to resource overloaded brain
21:54:48  <oskari89> :D
21:58:38  <frosch123> if you would deal with less gui stuff, you could add: wait for program to print result
22:01:21  *** davis` [] has joined #openttd
22:01:34  * davis` hi
22:02:21  <TrueBrain> hello davis`
22:02:29  <davis`> :]
22:02:38  <frosch123> do you get jealousy when someone else loves you?
22:02:47  <frosch123> -y
22:04:33  <TrueBrain> who you ask?
22:04:40  <el_en> bonsoir, madamoiselles et monsieures.
22:06:02  <frosch123>
22:06:08  <TrueBrain> ah :p
22:06:34  <glx> ecke: mesdemoiselles et messieurs
22:06:52  <glx> oups
22:06:56  <glx> el_en: ^^
22:10:05  <el_en> no comprendo
22:10:28  <Eddi|zuHause> how does one say "die spinnen, die Franzosen" in french?
22:10:56  <glx> what is "spinnen" ?
22:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (it's a common phrase of Obelix to say "die spinnen, die <insert tribe>"
22:11:24  <Eddi|zuHause> something like "they are silly"
22:11:24  <FauxFaux> s/die/le/g
22:11:38  <glx> ils sont dous ces romains
22:11:41  <glx> *fous
22:12:57  <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time i should watch asterix in french...
22:13:36  <Belugas> pfff...
22:13:41  <Belugas> tired
22:13:49  <frosch123> nope, you should watch it in welsh or old celtic
22:14:39  <glx> I wonder how are called roman "things" around the village
22:14:41  <Eddi|zuHause> my knowledge of history told me that "celts" was a rather generic term and the tribes did not actually share a common language
22:14:48  <Belugas> wow!  glx is beating me to the typos game!
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22:16:38  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: "Lager"?
22:17:37  <frosch123> likely "camp" in english
22:18:56  *** fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:20:18  <Belugas> yeah!
22:20:20  <Belugas> youhou!!
22:20:25  <Belugas> Alleluia!
22:20:31  <Belugas> je criss mon camp!!
22:20:37  <Belugas> bye bye
22:20:43  <frosch123> night belugas :)
22:20:56  <glx> yes, but I mean their names not the word :)
22:21:13  <Eddi|zuHause> oh...
22:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i never remember those...
22:21:26  <frosch123> they end with "orum"
22:21:28  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
22:21:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i do remember that the names were mentioned occasionally
22:21:57  <glx> in french they are "aquarium" "babaorum" "laudanum" and "petibonum"
22:22:00  *** fjb_ is now known as fjb
22:22:27  <frosch123> Kleinbonum, Babaorum, Aquarium und Laudanum
22:22:37  <frosch123> hmm, I thought there were five...
22:22:54  <Eddi|zuHause> no, they were four
22:23:51  *** cybertinus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:24:49  <frosch123> Compendium, Aquarium, Laudanum and Totorum
22:25:03  <TrueBrain> you guys are WEIRD
22:25:17  <frosch123> yeah, citing wiki all night :p
22:25:37  <TrueBrain> at least my 16bit to C stuff comes along just fine :p
22:26:23  <frosch123> which architecture? or boring 8086?
22:26:38  <TrueBrain> 8086 yes ... I also want to have games to port to C, if you don't mind ;)
22:27:47  <Eddi|zuHause> amiga has lots of games, probably ;)
22:27:57  <TrueBrain> I never played them :p
22:28:09  <TrueBrain> but might be a nice second to support :p
22:28:41  <oskari89> Amiga..
22:28:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never had an amiga either
22:28:52  <oskari89> I have amiga emulator on PC :)
22:28:59  <oskari89> And couple of games..
22:29:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i only remember that everyone always said the games for amiga were better and everything
22:29:52  <glx> graphically they were nice
22:30:01  <glx> (I never had an amiga though)
22:30:07  <Eddi|zuHause> but that reputation was probably the downfall of amiga, no "serious" applications for it
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22:31:01  <TrueBrain> I guess Gameboy could be fun too :)
22:31:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what kind of processor a gameboy has...
22:31:50  <el_en> Z80
22:32:01  <el_en> the original gameboy anyway.
22:32:16  <el_en> the same as TI-85/86
22:32:55  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: the CPU is not important; the instruction-set it uses is ;)
22:33:19  *** KingJ is now known as kingj
22:33:28  <el_en> kingj: warning #1
22:33:39  <Xaroth> o_O
22:35:19  <el_en> let's assume i'm sleeping from now on.
22:36:09  <Eddi|zuHause> let's also assume that you actually have power to support your warnings :p
22:36:39  <TrueBrain> although I don't agree if users start to give other users warnings .. I support him on thisone :)
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22:40:37  <glx> asm on ti-85 was fun
22:40:45  <glx> way easier to use on ti-86
22:46:59  <TrueBrain> AAA, AAD, AAS .. I hate them already
22:47:05  <TrueBrain> (8086 btw)
22:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> what do they do?
22:51:59  <TrueBrain> BCD things
22:52:24  <Eddi|zuHause> great ;)
22:52:51  <TrueBrain> alley the cat decompiled .. well .. the first stage :p
22:53:15  <frosch123> what are you heading for, what dosbox cannot do?
22:53:22  <TrueBrain> C code :)
22:53:37  <TrueBrain> so making it possible to port
22:53:45  <TrueBrain> that dosbox really can't ;)
22:54:03  <frosch123> and you want to play alleycat on your cellphone?
22:54:11  <TrueBrain> why cellphone?
22:54:32  <frosch123> I wonder about devices that do not run dosbox :)
22:54:45  <TrueBrain> hehe; it is not that, it is about being able to extend things
22:54:49  <TrueBrain> or understand, for that matter
22:55:09  <TrueBrain> aleycat is just an example .. mostly because it is a small and simple application :)
22:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is, reverse engineering for portability is legal
22:55:29  <Eddi|zuHause> but using results of such reverse engineering for anything else is not
22:56:54  <TrueBrain> your point being? :)
22:57:01  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing ;)
22:57:23  <frosch123> alleycat is by ibm, isn't it?
22:57:26  <TrueBrain> it is just fun to see if it can be done, in in what extend :)
22:57:32  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I really wouldn't know
22:57:49  <frosch123> doesn't it print something like that on the title screen?
22:57:57  <TrueBrain> will start it in a sec :)
22:58:00  <frosch123> well, maybe it is just for ibm pc :s
22:58:20  <TrueBrain> SynSoft
22:58:22  <TrueBrain> IBM Coop
22:58:30  <TrueBrain> 1984 :)
22:59:24  <frosch123> love them mousies :)
23:00:36  <frosch123> I am always surprised how old joysticks are
23:00:39  <TrueBrain> anyway, it is suprising to me how 'easy' it is to make something out of such programs :)
23:07:43  *** SHRIKEE [] has quit [Quit: SHRIKEE]
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23:17:05  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r16198 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix/Change (r16187): 'Go to nearest depot'-orders are fulfilled when reaching any depot, even though the train decided for a different depot on the last junction/order-skip.
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23:30:54  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: {STRING}{G 2 "m" "r" "m" " den"} {2:STRING} {1:TOWN} <--- doesn't parse
23:31:08  <planetmaker> but it parses, if I change it to {STRING}{G 2 "m" "r" "m" "den"} {2:STRING} {1:TOWN}
23:31:19  <planetmaker> mind the difference of the space before "den"
23:31:25  <TrueBrain>
23:31:26  <planetmaker> same, though, for wt2
23:31:37  <planetmaker> nevertheless, yes :)
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23:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i remember a similar problem back when the plural gender was introduced
23:35:15  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: exactly for that.
23:35:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i think strgen accepted a space, where wt2 did not
23:35:46  <planetmaker> yes.
23:36:07  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: strgen does parse it?
23:36:12  <TrueBrain> then you are VERY unclear in your reports
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23:36:47  <TrueBrain> WT2 doesn't understand "" (ask glx :p He is annoyed anough by it)
23:36:51  <TrueBrain> and for WT3 that is WIP
23:37:14  <TrueBrain> if strgen doesn't parse it, go to
23:39:50  <glx> yes it doesn't like "à la"
23:40:00  <glx> (note the space) ;)
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23:40:16  <TrueBrain> it doesn't like "" :p Well .. WT2 and WT3 simply don't see it as anything special ;)
23:40:25  <glx> "" is not a problem I think
23:40:33  <glx> it's used in translations
23:40:38  <TrueBrain> ...
23:40:45  <glx> the problem is clearly the space in this case
23:40:49  <TrueBrain> glx: WT2 and WT3 don't see " as any special char
23:41:02  <TrueBrain> so now think what a space means if " is just an other char
23:41:18  <glx> I understand that :)
23:41:25  <TrueBrain> so then don't tell "" is not a problem
23:41:33  <TrueBrain> it is exactly the problem: the lack of understanding what that indicates :)
23:42:09  <planetmaker> but "" is no problem
23:42:22  <TrueBrain> @kick planetmaker READ for crying out loud .. grr ...
23:42:22  *** planetmaker was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [READ for crying out loud .. grr ...]
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23:42:33  <glx> planetmaker: it is skiped so it's a problem
23:42:54  * glx should try to use nbsp for this string :)
23:42:57  <TrueBrain> glx: not even 'skipped' ;) Just read as any other char :)
23:43:07  <TrueBrain> glx: {NBSP} most likely fails .. command in command ;)
23:43:24  <glx> I mean a real nbsp
23:43:36  <glx> (if that exists)
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23:43:47  <TrueBrain> a real nbsp ... how does that look like? :p
23:43:58  <TrueBrain> the main problem with "" is, that it means you need to write your own split routine to make it " aware .. which is a bitch :(
23:44:32  <glx> " is a problem for validation only as strgen handles it correctly later
23:44:42  <TrueBrain> yup
23:44:48  <TrueBrain> but there is no way to get a real space in the DB
23:44:51  <TrueBrain> without passing the validation
23:45:23  <glx> maybe you can check the first char and if it's a " unsplit until last char is "
23:45:36  <TrueBrain> as I said: it is a bitch :)
23:45:44  <glx> true
23:45:56  <glx> but the only "easy" way I think
23:46:04  <TrueBrain> I think scanning char by char is easier
23:46:13  <TrueBrain> when it reads a ", it just goes on blindly till the next ", if any
23:46:18  <TrueBrain> (else it errors-out)
23:46:28  <glx> so custom split
23:46:36  <TrueBrain> yeah, no way to avoid that anyway :)
23:46:49  <TrueBrain> you don't want that mess in your subfunctions
23:46:52  <TrueBrain> (used 3 or 4 times)
23:47:33  <glx> can be seen for genders and plural IIRC
23:47:46  <TrueBrain> I meant code-wise in WT3 :)
23:47:55  <TrueBrain> there are 2 levels of validation
23:49:52  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: btw, did you find a way around your problem?
23:50:01  <planetmaker> no
23:50:19  <TrueBrain> I think strgen can be extended without too much effort ..
23:50:22  <planetmaker> different wording. But it's less elegant
23:54:09  <TrueBrain> in fact, I think it is a one-liner ...
23:54:14  <TrueBrain> will check with higher powers ;)
23:56:12  <TrueBrain> 199 of the 256 functions done ... yeah ...
23:56:15  <TrueBrain> nightynight all!
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