Log for #openttd on 24th June 2009:
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00:02:37  <Eddi|zuHause> ohhh... alain has a new project
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00:12:24  <Yexo> I'm wondering how much time it'll cost for him to give up :p
00:28:12  <z-MaTRiX> :)
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01:09:46  <Belugas> ho... so much fun fun fun @ work work work
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01:41:06  <Eddi|zuHause> you should work less, i presume
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01:52:50  <Belugas> tell that to my boss :(
01:52:58  <Belugas> and i'm not speaking of my wife here :P
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02:31:40  <Belugas> damned... HOW does he get THAT sound???
02:32:17  <Belugas> If ever anyone knows personnaly Jeph Jacques, ask him about Conniptions
02:32:22  <Belugas> pleeeeeeeaaaaaasee!!!!!!
02:32:38  <Belugas> 100100
02:32:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so...
02:33:45  <Belugas> that's VERY unfortunate
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02:34:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and is "Conniption" a pun lost in translation?
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02:45:07  <Belugas> i dunno what it means
02:45:10  <Belugas> it's a song
02:45:15  <Belugas> and it's amazing
02:45:25  <Belugas> search for DeathMole
02:45:45  <Belugas> or something like that
03:01:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i go with "or something"
03:02:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it's an "n" too much
03:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause> nonlatin characters in filenames... not the brightest idea...
03:03:56  <Belugas> :)
03:04:54  <Eddi|zuHause> ok... step 3 complete... signing up at the drive manufacturer's website for a warranty replacement...
03:05:05  <Eddi|zuHause> now for step 4: shipping...
03:05:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a fear that this requires me leaving the house...
03:07:24  <Belugas> leaving...
03:07:26  <Belugas> house...
03:07:30  <Belugas> reminds me of
03:07:32  <Belugas> sleep...
03:07:38  <Belugas> which i'll go right now
03:07:45  <Belugas> good luck, Eddi|zuHause
03:07:55  <Belugas> whatever you;re doing :)
03:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm replacing a hard drive
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03:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause> step 1 was finding enough space to copy the data, step 2 was removing the drive from the case
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06:25:27  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Is there a max # of sprite layouts that you can have per station id?
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07:41:13  <dihedral> morning
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08:07:18  <petern> dihedral! Community Integrated Version!
08:07:26  <petern> lol!
08:08:24  <dihedral> hehe
08:09:01  <dihedral> that would make some people happy, and cause headache to the maintainers :-P
08:09:07  <dihedral> and only last 2 weeks :-D
08:09:36  <dihedral> and then create bug reports: but copy and paste WAS in OpenTTD once, why is it not anymore?
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10:00:09  <petern> hmm
10:00:38  * petern is surprised to discover his computers have separate mid driver and tweeters
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10:06:45  <petern> doesn't have a crossover though, heh
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11:41:08  <Belugas> rrrrrrr  zzzzzzzz
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11:41:22  <Belugas> hu....?  i've got to work?  ho... shit.....
11:41:41  <Belugas> let's go bak to bed, shall we?
11:41:47  <Belugas> rrrrrrr  zzzzzzz
11:41:49  <SmatZ> :-P
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11:47:19  <Belugas> ho... right dear... i can indeed sleep a while...
11:47:40  <Belugas> it's the national holiday, the St-Jean-Baptiste day!
11:47:55  <Belugas> Bonne St-Jean les Quebecois!!
11:47:59  <Belugas> let's PARTY!!!!!
11:48:03  <Belugas> rrrrrr   zzzzzzzz
11:48:36  <Noldo> so he is the Kemal Atatürk of Quebec?
11:48:44  <Rubidium> why haven't you declared all non-holiday work days are St. JFC day?
11:49:20  <petern> Belugas, :D :D :D
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11:51:21  <Belugas> Rubidium, my boss would disagree
11:51:26  <Belugas> and so would my wife
11:51:48  <Belugas> petern, i THINK something MIGHT happen tonigh (yours, of course)
11:51:57  <Belugas> now, time to hit the shower
11:51:59  <Belugas> bye by
11:52:02  <petern> in about 5 hours...
11:52:14  <petern> unless i... skive off
11:52:16  <petern> hmm
11:52:21  <Belugas> non o.. shower right now, not in 5 hours :S
11:52:56  <petern> heh
11:52:58  <petern> 5 hour showe!
11:53:02  <petern> +r
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12:31:26  <Yexo> Leanden has something useful to say :0
12:33:28  <Ammler> hehe, alain could use the wiki about last "failed" CIV ;-)
12:39:36  <planetmaker> har har. The last thing in that direction was IMO the nomic-IN. But it failed also...
12:39:53  <planetmaker> Though the concept wasn't entirely bad.
12:41:11  <Yexo> was the the auto-integrated thing?
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12:52:44  <planetmaker> Yexo, yes, that was the auto-integrated thing
12:52:55  <Yexo> ah, that was a nice idea indeed
12:52:59  <Yexo> too bad it died
12:55:11  <Rubidium> for any patch pack/IN you need at least two or three people who understand the base code and want the patch pack to happen
12:56:15  <Yexo> I think one person can do it, but the key factor here is "people who understand the base code"
12:56:54  <Rubidium> Yexo: name me a patch pack/IN that survived longer than a few months that was maintained by one person
12:57:28  <Yexo> I wondered whether I should have added "(at least one version of a pp)", clearly yes :)
12:57:37  <Ammler> pms patchpack ;-)
12:57:44  <Yexo> what about mini-in?
12:57:57  <Rubidium> Yexo: and that was one person in what sense?
12:58:21  <Yexo> I had that idea, dunno wh
12:58:39  <Yexo> but that was before my openttd time
12:58:41  <Rubidium> MiniIN was 3 persons and once 1 of them stopped it died
12:59:10  <Ammler> wasn't that stopped of request from you?
13:00:41  <Ammler> request might be wrong word...
13:01:04  <Rubidium> Ammler: no, RichK67 just didn't want to go through all the hassle with the C++ stuff
13:01:27  <Rubidium> well, and the MiniIN was lagging behind a quite bit
13:02:18  <Rubidium> basically it ended because RichK67 didn't want to spend time in it anymore
13:02:23  <Noldo> Rubidium: is there reason why you would want INs and patchpacks to fly?
13:03:14  <Rubidium> Noldo: in what sense? Fly as in become succesful or fly as in: fly away and be never seen again?
13:04:50  <Ammler> were the MiniINs build save compatible with trunk save bumps?
13:05:18  <Rubidium> Ammler: yes and relatively save compatible with older MiniINs
13:05:33  <Ammler> wow
13:05:46  <Ammler> something, no pack reached again...
13:06:09  <Rubidium> Ammler: yes, and it isn't that hard to do either
13:07:21  <Rubidium> MiniIN just had a savegame version 5 or so higher than trunk, which means the last 4 MiniIN savegame versions would be loadable assuming you added the right saveload 'code'
13:07:38  <planetmaker> Ammler, you cannot really call it patchpack... well...
13:07:41  <Ammler> oh, btw. the russian thing seems to be a long live thing.
13:07:43  <planetmaker> (mine)
13:07:59  <Rubidium> Ammler: I hear very little from it
13:08:06  <Yexo> Ammler: "russion commnunity" <_ not one person either
13:10:45  <Noldo> Rubidium: be succesful
13:11:46  <Rubidium> "succesful" patch packs/INs show quite well how well tested the patches are that people think are ready
13:11:53  <glx> Yexo: about miniin, all major trunk changes were not synced by richk67
13:12:45  <Rubidium> e.g. the 'realistic acceleration' patch in MiniIN did easily desync, yet NO ONE had reported it while allegedly many people played with it
13:12:54  <Ammler> that is why I thought, the "quit" came from you...
13:13:10  <glx> subsidiary was a hell regarding sync with trunk
13:13:38  <Ammler> miniin was never really playable on MP
13:13:44  <Rubidium> the desync was actually found when I skimmed the saveload code of said patch and found out that variables were missing
13:13:56  <Rubidium> Ammler: yet no one reported it
13:14:07  <Ammler> I can rember one game wich worked around an hour
13:14:12  <glx> but it was well tested and stable ;)
13:14:12  <Rubidium> which shows that for non-official stuff people generally do not complain
13:14:34  <glx> and ready for trunk :)
13:14:37  <Rubidium> and proclaim that stuff is well-tested and stable because of said lack of complaints
13:15:48  <Ammler> but I still know people, playing MiniIN ;-)
13:15:55  <Rubidium> Ammler: take a look at the revision log of MiniIN, especially near the end
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13:16:29  <Yexo> glx: ah, I didn't know that
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13:28:30  <dihedral> tada :-)
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13:37:30  <dihedral> hehe - community patch pack will drive the community round the bend :-D
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14:37:09  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Is there an upper limit on the number of sprite layouts that you can have for a single station id?
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15:37:08  <petern> Chicago_Rail_Authority, you mean a newgrf custom station definition?
15:38:53  <petern> if so, there is, but it's high; 65535
15:40:10  <petern> you need to use the sprite layout callback of course, to get past 8 layouts
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16:01:12  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> thanks, peter
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16:06:07  <frosch123> Chicago_Rail_Authority: is your question still up to date?
16:06:29  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> From what I PM'd you? Yea
16:06:39  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> I think my #s are off somewhere...
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17:40:07  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r16643 /trunk/src/ (38 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: replace GetStationByTile() by Station::GetByTile()
17:40:47  <dihedral> someone could 'pin' the community patch pack thread :-D
17:43:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r16644 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt hungarian.txt indonesian.txt):
17:43:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-06-24 17:43:08
17:43:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed by Hadez (1)
17:43:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 fixed by IPG (1)
17:43:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 fixed by adjayanto (1)
17:45:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r16645 /trunk/src/lang/russian.txt:
17:45:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: russian - 6 changes by Lone_Wolf
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18:17:36  <petern> Belugas
18:20:01  <dihedral> petern
18:24:47  <petern> you are not Belugas
18:25:26  <welshdragon> petern:
18:27:44  <dihedral> you are not .... petern?
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18:32:15  <petern> you are not Belugas either
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18:36:01  <welshdragon> dihedral: i am Sacro
18:40:50  <petern> /kick welshdragon ban evasion
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18:47:51  <Prof_Frink> welshdragon: I'm spartacus!
18:48:10  <dihedral> i'm special :-D
18:48:38  <petern> no shit
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19:13:10  <mzz> hi
19:13:23  <Yexo> hello mzz
19:13:47  <mzz> im trying to run open ttd on htc hermes
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19:14:19  <mzz> and it says that i didnt copy the needed files, but i did
19:14:32  <mzz> do you know what could be wrong?
19:14:42  <Yexo> are the files in the data directory?
19:14:59  <mzz> yes, and these are the ones i was talking about
19:15:57  <mzz> i mean, i am talking about
19:16:00  <mzz> ;p
19:16:19  *** andythenorth [~andy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:16:57  <mzz> any ideas?
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19:17:50  <Yexo> no idea what's wrong
19:17:53  *** [alt]buster [] has joined #openttd
19:18:26  <mzz> well
19:18:34  <Yexo> but maybe someone else has an idea
19:18:35  <mzz> thanks anyway
19:19:19  <mzz> maybe its just not supposed to run on htc hermes
19:20:10  <Yexo> I haven't heard before that anyone tested it, but it should run
19:22:07  <mzz> do you know any place on the net where i could look for help?
19:22:49  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
19:23:07  <Yexo> here :)
19:23:30  <mzz> what about other places? :)
19:23:36  <Yexo> did you also copy the obg file?
19:23:47  <mzz> no, i didnt
19:23:51  <mzz> what is it?
19:23:53  <Yexo> you should
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19:24:10  <mzz> and whats the full name?
19:24:17  <Yexo> the obg file is a file that contains the md5 sums of all base graphics files
19:24:26  <mzz> oh
19:24:28  <mzz> ok
19:24:38  <mzz> how can i get it?
19:24:48  <Yexo> orig_dos.obg / orig_dos_de.obg / orig_win.obg
19:24:57  <Yexo> it's in any binary / source package of openttd
19:27:08  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r16646 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: rename GetDepotByTile() to Depot::GetByTile()
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19:28:27  <Rubidium> mzz: what exact version of OpenTTD are you running?
19:29:11  <mzz> PPCTTD v0.6.0 by Spookysoft and eSoft Interactive.
19:29:44  <Rubidium> that's an ancient version; the obg file is not needed
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19:30:39  <Rubidium> that version is also not supported by us; you need to ask the people at esoft
19:31:36  <Prof_Frink> mmmm beer.
19:31:38  <mzz> well
19:31:57  <mzz> is the a ppcttd version supported by you?
19:32:35  <Rubidium> if ppc == pocket pc then no
19:33:08  <mzz> indeed
19:33:48  * Yexo remembers not to assume to much about versions
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19:33:58  *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth
19:34:09  <mzz> thank you
19:34:11  <mzz> take care
19:46:40  <Belugas> petern, I am THE Belugas, and i'll summon you to the Organ!!
19:47:12  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Quit: Icebears are cute. Please, take care of them!]
19:47:29  <Belugas> by the way, who, apart petern and i are using ninjam?
19:47:36  <Belugas> don't be shy...
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19:57:56  <petern> hurrr hurrr hurrr
19:58:01  * petern plays with his organ
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20:21:29  <Yexo> there are some global varaction 2 variables in openttd that are not listed here: ttp://
20:21:34  <Yexo> is there some other documentation?
20:21:50  *** Dred_furst [] has joined #openttd
20:22:45  <SmatZ> I am not sure if that's what you are asking for
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20:23:38  <Yexo> there are several global variables for variational action 2's, starting with "00	W	current date (counted as days from 1920) "
20:23:54  <Yexo> they are listed on the page I gave, but in the openttd code there are several more that are not listed there
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20:38:06  <petern> yes
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20:41:24  <Yexo> petern: would ou be so kind to tell me where I can find that documentation?
20:43:38  <petern> oh, global 80s?
20:43:55  <petern> there are no global 80s
20:44:07  <petern> hmm
20:44:11  <petern> where did i get 80 from?
20:44:14  <Yexo> no, the vars 00, 01, 02, 03, 09, 0A are listed
20:44:27  <Yexo> but openttd also supports 06 (for example)
20:46:53  <Rubidium> Yexo: probably because the variables are the same as the ones used in Action 7/9
20:47:02  <Rubidium> so they got 'merged'
20:48:33  <Yexo> aha, thanks
20:48:46  <glx> yes looks like 80+x action 7/9
20:48:48  <Rubidium> what a tiny bit of svn praising can do
20:49:27  <Yexo> actually the docs just above GetGlobalVariable tell it too
20:49:31  * Yexo should have read that
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20:51:58  <Yexo> looks like some of these variables can easily cause desyncs, but then that's probably known
20:52:12  <Rubidium> Yexo: which ones?
20:52:27  <Rubidium> when?
20:52:28  <Yexo> 0x1B: *value = GB(_display_opt, 0, 6);'
20:53:12  <Yexo> 0x0D: *value = _cur_grfconfig->windows_paletted; <- not sure about that one
20:53:15  <Rubidium> in networking those are set to specific values on loading
20:53:27  <Rubidium> the grfconfig can't be changed in network games
20:53:47  <Yexo> Rubidium: these vars can be accessed in var action 2 chains, not only during loading
20:54:04  <Rubidium> although, the display opt might need forcing in MP action 2 chains
20:54:10  <Yexo> every single callback could access the display opt
20:54:29  <petern> callbacks shouldn't
20:54:39  <petern> or at least, non-visual ones shouldn't
20:54:44  <petern> awkward to enforce
21:01:09  *** ZxBiohazardZx [] has joined #openttd
21:01:14  <ZxBiohazardZx> heya all
21:01:32  <ZxBiohazardZx> anyone know if the "drive through depot" patch works with latest revision?
21:01:52  <Yexo> why not test it?
21:01:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> drive-through-depots.r15905
21:02:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> hehe ill test it
21:02:10  <Rubidium> likely the answer will be no
21:02:14  <ZxBiohazardZx> lemmy find the mingw commands and compile XD
21:02:39  <ZxBiohazardZx> dunno im still compiling, but it looked usefull for my savegame where im trying to do some nice eye-candy stuff in my new networks:)
21:02:42  <Yexo> the latest - 1 revision has a slightly higher chance of working
21:02:54  <ZxBiohazardZx> awww
21:03:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> lastest revision is unstable or what?
21:03:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> or is -1 always better XD
21:03:11  <Yexo> no, but there was a codechange related to depots
21:03:20  <ZxBiohazardZx> hehe
21:03:23  <ZxBiohazardZx> ill see;)
21:03:26  <Yexo> it's not like it matters for playing anyway
21:04:38  <ZxBiohazardZx> lame it wont even go to the tortoise merger
21:04:49  <ZxBiohazardZx> its a .diff rather then a .patch, does that matter?
21:04:58  <Yexo> no
21:05:20  <Yexo> the extension is just a random choice made by the patch author
21:05:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> then why doesnt tortoise merger not do anything with the darn patch
21:05:31  <Yexo> he could as well call it .change
21:05:39  <ZxBiohazardZx> i dont have to put it in a specific folder right?:P
21:05:44  <Rubidium> or .txt
21:05:44  <Yexo> no idea,maybe it's a mercurial or git patch
21:06:16  <Yexo> get a decent program to apply patches :p
21:07:21  <ZxBiohazardZx> can i apply patch with MINGW?
21:07:35  <Zammler> try patch
21:07:36  <Yexo> just install the program patch
21:07:51  <Yexo> see the sticky in the development section for a howto
21:08:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> 1 sec:P i see its patch related, cause it WILL open my chunnel, signals on tunnel and bridges and other patches
21:08:45  <ZxBiohazardZx> so only that one aint working:P
21:08:54  <ZxBiohazardZx> XD
21:08:57  <Rubidium> TortoiseMerge reminds me of
21:09:12  <ZxBiohazardZx> and when i updated the trunk, it returned with an "conflict"
21:09:30  <Yexo> either fix that conflict, or don't upgrade
21:09:33  <Rubidium> it's basically doing the same thing; support only a very specific version
21:09:45  <ZxBiohazardZx> i think i fixxed it, by repatching the chunnel but is that "normal" to get a conflict when you update with patched files?
21:10:11  <Rubidium> yes
21:11:10  <Yexo> ZxBiohazardZx: what is happening: You have version x of some file, then you make some changes (by applying a patch), the the offical file is updated, now those changes have to be merged to one file again
21:11:29  <Yexo> sometimes that succeeds, and when it can't be done automatically you get a conflict and have to solve it yourself
21:11:58  <ZxBiohazardZx> so my "fix" of doing the patch apply-ing was correct :) woot im starting to get this stuff:)
21:12:05  <ZxBiohazardZx> so any patches you recommand?:P
21:12:25  <Rubidium> imagine you get a text in Vulcan and a document that tells you replace these Vulcan sentences with these Vulcan sentences. Now the Vulcans release a new updated version of the text, you again try to apply the changes but one of the places where you need to make changes had changed. How would you solve that (assuming you don't understand Vulcan)?
21:12:49  <ZxBiohazardZx> hehe
21:13:05  <ZxBiohazardZx> so my fix aint right? XD
21:13:26  <ZxBiohazardZx> cause i had this working revision, with 3 patches:) and now i hope they still work :)
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21:13:43  <Yexo> just try to see whether it works
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21:14:07  <Yexo> but 1. Don't report bugs for modified versions and 2. Most patch authors won't like bug reports from versions with more then 1 patch either
21:15:10  <Zammler> hehe, another PatchPack
21:15:42  <ZxBiohazardZx> im not reporting bugs, its just for my screenshot thread (tayvan transport) and personal interest:P
21:16:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> but i was wondering what you guys recommand besides latest revision and trying to get the patches i used working again:)
21:16:44  <Yexo> no pstches at all, that way you can keep playing your game with newer versions :)
21:17:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> lol
21:17:21  <Rubidium> spending a few (hundred) hours learning C, C++ and your way around OpenTTD's code
21:17:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> but in my mountainious area i need the lovely chunnel and signals on bridges&tunnels patches:P
21:17:43  <ZxBiohazardZx> and i think those 2 work
21:17:57  <ZxBiohazardZx> so i was trying to see if DriveThroughDepots could work
21:18:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> but i cant get it applied
21:18:24  <ZxBiohazardZx>
21:18:50  <Yexo> it's a git patch, tortoisesvn doesn't accept those
21:19:00  <Yexo> as I said before, get a decent patch program
21:20:47  <ZxBiohazardZx> xd
21:20:47  <Rubidium> Tortoise's patch support is like MS Office's OpenDocument support; it only likes it's own stuff and not the stuff created by other tools
21:20:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> hehe?P
21:20:57  <ZxBiohazardZx> alright
21:21:04  <ZxBiohazardZx> can i do the patching with MINGW as well?
21:21:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> or is that compiling only?
21:21:37  <Yexo> there is a patch.exe for mingw
21:21:41  <petern> Rubidium, and it's mainly the fault of the document specification?
21:22:39  <ZxBiohazardZx> its a .diff file, can i just open that in mingw or do i have to download something else first?
21:22:43  <Rubidium> petern: kinda
21:23:05  <ZxBiohazardZx> XD ill go and check the newbie guide on forums again:) i feel like a child in a maze:) knowing some bits, and the exit, but not the way to it anymore:)
21:23:11  <petern> at least when it comes to spread sheets
21:23:29  <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah wont compile, conflicts with bla bla bla
21:23:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> XD
21:23:40  <ZxBiohazardZx> i just ruined my stable working build XD
21:23:48  *** Roujin [] has joined #openttd
21:23:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> so now its revert to my old revision?
21:23:55  <Roujin> hey guys
21:23:58  <Rubidium> luckily you were so smart to make backups
21:24:28  <Roujin> is there an easy way to use int64 in a formatted string?
21:24:53  <Roujin> %il is only int32, isn't it?
21:25:09  <Roujin> or %dl
21:25:09  <Rubidium> Roujin: cross-platform?
21:25:14  <ZxBiohazardZx> i do have a backup rubidium:)
21:25:20  <ZxBiohazardZx> im not 100% idiot, only 50%
21:25:49  <Roujin> hm, preferably, but if it only worked on windows I could live with it
21:25:49  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:25:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Roujin: tried with %dll?
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21:26:24  <Roujin> not yet Eddi, will try it..
21:26:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> im just seeing how far i can update XD till it confilicts with the signals on bridge&tunnels again:P
21:26:38  <Rubidium> "%I64d" or "%lld"
21:27:04  <Rubidium> former is for Windows/MINGW, latter is for all the rest
21:28:24  <Roujin> hmm, does there exist some override for that in openttd to make it universal?
21:28:43  <Rubidium> ofcourse: OTTD_PRINTF64
21:29:13  <Roujin> ah yes
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21:29:48  <Roujin> defines just what you just said, %I64d for win, %lld for the rest.. thanks for the help :)
21:32:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> building a clean trunk again:)
21:33:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r16647 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: remove newgrf.h include from newgrf_engine.h to prevent unnecessary inclusion newgrf.h anyway
21:33:55  <ZxBiohazardZx> Rubidium/yexo what makes the trunk different from stable releases (aka what do you guys usually add/change?)
21:34:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> is it just random patches that are usefull get integrated in trunk or?
21:34:08  <Yexo> <- see log
21:34:09  *** lobster [~michielbi@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34:38  <Rubidium> ZxBiohazardZx: how do you think we get from major release to the next major release? With one magic bang and everything is there?
21:34:46  <Yexo> all new features you'll see in the next stable are in trunk first
21:35:08  <Yexo> then at some point we say, we stop development and fix all remaining bugs, then that's called a 'stable'
21:35:12  <ZxBiohazardZx> @ rubidium no i dont:)
21:35:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> i do see you need the gradual changes, and im happy i can see some now
21:35:41  <Yexo> <- a graphical overview
21:36:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> but even with stable releases i hardly see the big steps you guys are making:)  all i see is patches that are integrated, but is ther emore?
21:36:24  <Yexo> should there be more?
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21:36:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> thx for the graphical explain yexo
21:37:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> does that mean that usefull patches like chunnel and signals on bridge/tunnel COULD have been integrated in trunk already (no need to apply-patch those features )
21:37:56  <Roujin> ahaha ^^
21:38:01  <Yexo> all patches could have been integrated
21:38:10  <Yexo> but usually there are ver good reasons for not doing so
21:38:20  <Roujin> according to the pic bugs are backported to the 0.x branches :)
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21:38:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> so specificly the signals on bridges&tunnels did NOT get integrated (yet)?
21:38:52  <Roujin> "oh, we introduced a new bug in trunk, let's backport it to the stable branch ^_^"
21:39:04  <Yexo> ZxBiohazardZx: that's right
21:39:07  <Rubidium> Roujin: yes that actually (occasionally) happens
21:39:20  <Yexo> in general, all patches you see in the forum are not yet integrated
21:39:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> @yexo how you do those fat-sound-thingys:P
21:39:38  <Roujin> I think it should have been "backport bugfixes" though :)
21:39:46  <Yexo> highlighting you?, just by using your name
21:39:51  <Yexo> like this: ZxBiohazardZx
21:39:51  <Roujin> or was that an intentional easteregg?
21:39:58  <SmatZ> haha @ backport of bugs :)
21:40:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> yexo aha
21:40:14  <ZxBiohazardZx> doesnt work:P
21:40:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> Yexo
21:40:20  <ZxBiohazardZx> arrrg
21:40:21  <Yexo> it does work
21:40:29  <Yexo> my windows lights up when you do that
21:40:31  <ZxBiohazardZx> like this: ZxBiohazardZx
21:40:35  <ZxBiohazardZx> random:)
21:41:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway i got my stable build up and running again, now try apply the patch and watch for any errors i assume?
21:42:52  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:43:41  <Rubidium> Roujin: that image was more for quickly showing someone what branches, tags and trunk mean. It's not meant to be fully correct etc.
21:44:08  <ZxBiohazardZx> @rubidium, if you want to explain for someone then you better do it right;)
21:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i should stop watching the news...
21:44:31  <Roujin> no offense meant Rubidium :) just found it funny ^^
21:44:38  <Eddi|zuHause> it's getting closer and closer to "the world is going to end"
21:45:07  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the "every hour new fictional reports" kind of news?
21:45:19  *** Lachie [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:45:42  <Rubidium> ZxBiohazardZx/Roujin: it actually ended up (vastly reworked) in
21:45:55  *** Lachie [] has joined #openttd
21:46:28  <ZxBiohazardZx> claiming the stables are just a branch
21:46:48  <petern> ...
21:47:06  <Roujin> the stables are a branch, biohazard
21:47:06  <ZxBiohazardZx> seems alright though i guess stables are more like end-product then a branch imo
21:47:17  <Rubidium> ZxBiohazardZx: you're interpreting it incorrectly
21:47:20  <ZxBiohazardZx> hehe but yeah makes sense:)
21:47:33  <Rubidium> nightlies aren't trunk either; nightlies are snapshots of trunk
21:47:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the kind that says "peace in israel not going to happen", "protests in iran trown down with blood", "european countries introduce chinese internet", ...
21:47:56  <Rubidium> same as stable/RC releases are snapshots of the 'stable' branch
21:48:00  <ZxBiohazardZx> aha
21:48:50  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nothing new thus, although... eventually there won't be a figth in Israel
21:51:11  <ZxBiohazardZx> woot the signal in tunnel works (V25)
21:51:36  *** lobster [~michielbi@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:51:37  <dihedral> no way - really? wow - it should go into trunk!!11!oneeleven
21:51:37  <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: imho, the supposed "signals in tunnel" are the wrong approach...
21:51:44  <ZxBiohazardZx> now for the depot thingy, what patch-program do you suggest yexo
21:51:57  <Yexo> the program patch
21:51:58  <ZxBiohazardZx> Eddi|zuHause what you mean?
21:52:09  <Yexo> or gnu patch, whatever you want to call it
21:52:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean it's doing the wrong thing to achieve its supposed goal
21:52:36  <gleeb> I don't see 'signals in tunnels' as a good thing. I don't see many tunnels IRL with them.
21:52:38  <ZxBiohazardZx> it worked fine for me, simulating the signals helped me out alot
21:52:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> gleeb IRL signalling is more advanced anyway
21:52:57  <Eddi|zuHause> gleeb: how do you think subway systems work?
21:53:04  <dihedral> gleeb: what a good reason - NOT
21:53:07  <gleeb> Eddi|zuHause: Very careful timing.
21:53:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. certainly....
21:53:26  * Rubidium knows a tunnel with signals
21:53:34  <Rubidium> though the tunnel isn't used enough
21:53:37  <gleeb> dihedral: I didn't cite it as a reason, more an observation. You're still mean.
21:53:44  <Rubidium> so dust settles and the signalling system goes haywire
21:53:44  <ZxBiohazardZx> but Eddi|zuHause what you mean by doing wrong thing... and how would you adress it then?
21:53:44  <Zammler> so tunnels shouldn't have signals, they should just ignore them :-)
21:53:55  <ZxBiohazardZx> cause i like tunnels with signals, whatever you guys say:)
21:54:09  <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: i did not question the goal
21:54:19  <ZxBiohazardZx> i know you questionned the method
21:54:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i questioned the path it goes to achieve that goal
21:54:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> and i wonder what method you preferred taking rather then this one
21:56:09  <Rubidium> the method that gives you changing direction/heightlevel under ground and also allows you to build junctions, station and depots underground
21:56:19  <Rubidium> and the same for tunnels
21:56:33  <Rubidium> s/tunnels/bridges/
21:56:35  <dihedral> hehe
21:57:16  <Rubidium> and 'your' patch is heavily incompatible with that
21:57:17  * Prof_Frink wants to build bridges underground
21:57:27  <ZxBiohazardZx> rubidium why are all stables still 0.7.something and not 1.0.something, the stables work and are fully functional compared to original TTD
21:57:46  <Rubidium> read the goals on the wiki
21:57:54  <ZxBiohazardZx> rubidium, yeah i know, but till you build me a better patch, i like the one i have:)
21:58:20  <ZxBiohazardZx> im reading the roadmap that what you mean?
21:58:26  <dihedral> ZxBiohazardZx: you can like it all you want
21:58:32  <ZxBiohazardZx> :)
21:58:36  <Roujin> no, he meant another wiki page
21:58:40  <dihedral> does not mean people here like it, esp. those who develop openttd
21:58:51  <Roujin>
21:59:34  <Roujin> as long as the objectives are not done, why should it be called "finished" (1.0)?
21:59:49  <dihedral> and how they version their game is totally their choice - it makes no difference if it is labeled 0.7 or 1.0
22:00:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> objective 1: Provide a free, open source, transport game  CHECK (DONE)
22:01:09  <ZxBiohazardZx> objective 2: Support all 'major' platforms, preferably supporting minor platforms too  (DONE??? if not name a platform)
22:01:29  <ZxBiohazardZx> Provide a game that is free from war themes and conflict; hence suitable for all age groups  CHECK (DONE) (name a wartheme/confilict)
22:01:30  <dihedral> for goodness sake - you dont have to copy paste all those lines here
22:01:45  <dihedral> i am sure they fully well know what it says
22:01:55  <Yexo> ZxBiohazardZx: please read the complete page, also the info under "Long term goals"
22:02:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> 3/3 objectives have been done
22:02:11  <ZxBiohazardZx> the long term goals could be for 2.0.0 etc
22:02:17  <Roujin> ........
22:02:19  <Korenn> Stub
22:02:19  <Korenn> This article is a stub. Please, if you can, expand it.
22:02:26  <Korenn> sounds like an objective to me :P
22:02:29  <ZxBiohazardZx> xd
22:03:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> imho 1.0.0 could be released, pushing the long term goals as new objectives for 2.0.0
22:03:03  * Eddi|zuHause ponders an /ignore
22:03:03  <Yexo> if you take that approach, OpenTTD 0.1 could have been called 1.0, since it was open source, it was a transport game, it was free from war thems, it was supporting all major platforms
22:03:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> XD
22:03:30  <Roujin> alright, if you're unhappy with the version numbering scheme, please go ahead and fork it and call it MyGreatGame 1.0
22:03:35  <ZxBiohazardZx> i actually helped replacing GFX for 32bp
22:03:53  <Yexo> read better, the 32bpp graphics project is not in the long term goals
22:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: it was decided very long ago that it can't be called 1.0 before a complete free graphics replacement set is finished
22:04:12  <ZxBiohazardZx> ok
22:04:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that, btw., is part of objective 1
22:04:26  <ZxBiohazardZx> eeehm the patch program, where is it:P
22:04:41  <ZxBiohazardZx> i searched for patch on forums but i got flooded with board-messages:P
22:04:55  <dihedral> oh my word
22:05:01  <Yexo>
22:05:03  <Eddi|zuHause> in /usr/bin/patch
22:05:05  <dihedral> i think i am going to extend my ignore list a bit more
22:05:39  <Yexo> after cleaning it you're trying to fill it again?
22:06:06  <ZxBiohazardZx> i already applied patch #1 (the hated signals:) )
22:06:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> but now its time for number 2:) the drive through depots that tortoise wouldnt take:P
22:06:47  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: put all people on it who have an identical prefix and postfix of more than 1 letter
22:08:38  *** orava [] has joined #openttd
22:08:40  <Yexo> What is the best strategy now, flooding Alain with some big (incompatible) patches, or ignoring him
22:08:50  *** orava [] has left #openttd []
22:09:39  <Korenn> obviously just ignore it. it's not as if developers will actually contribute anything with his attitude ;)
22:09:50  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:10:10  <Yexo> I wasn't talking about helping him, just submitting some big patches to give him some work
22:10:12  <dihedral> Yexo: after cleaning it you're trying to fill it again? <- clearing the list was not on purpose
22:10:23  <dihedral> + i always try to fill the list with annoying nicks
22:11:00  <dihedral> and i vote for flaming alain till he leaves :-P
22:11:21  <dihedral> if you feed him with stuff he cannot handle he will flood the forums anyway - causing even more work
22:11:26  <dihedral> 'how do i ....'
22:11:37  <Korenn> Yexo: but there will always be more people like him. Feeding him work is still feeding him, even if it doesn't get him anywhere ;)
22:11:51  <Yexo> hmm, true
22:11:57  <dihedral> or 'can you please up date your patch to work with this oh so community driven community patch pack though i am the only person managing it'
22:12:02  <Yexo> dihedral: Alain is very capable of flooding the forums without getting any reply
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22:12:18  <dihedral> hehe :-D
22:12:31  <dihedral> Korenn: actually, alain is the worst of them all
22:12:41  <Yexo> most other people give up
22:12:49  <dihedral> in the last 3 years i have not seen anything like that kid
22:13:34  <Yexo> nekomaster comes close sometimes
22:13:48  <Yexo> but I just noticed he is banned here :)
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22:15:33  <Roujin> hmm.. I want to get the name of an engine to output it, (e is instance of Engine)   GetString(buf, e->info.string_id, lastof(buf)); <-- this works fine for most cases, but for some newgrf defined engines it contains some garbage
22:15:52  <Roujin> e.g. ?EUREURAirship
22:16:23  <Roujin> I think this is some manual x- positioning done by the author of the newgrf
22:16:36  <Yexo> blame the newgrf author
22:16:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Roujin: wrong handling of UTF8-strings?
22:18:21  <ZxBiohazardZx>
22:18:35  <ZxBiohazardZx> ill just leave now:)
22:18:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> have a nice talking and ill try to keep the head revision more often, and maybe talk to you all later:)
22:18:58  <Roujin> are they supposed to be UTF8? oO
22:19:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> UTF-8 please
22:19:23  <ZxBiohazardZx> even in the topic of the IRC;)
22:19:26  <Zammler> ZxBiohazardZx: nothing to do with svn, tortoise is the matter...
22:19:29  <Yexo> ZxBiohazardZx: is searching that hard? (second hit)
22:19:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Roujin: openttd uses UTF8 internally
22:19:44  <ZxBiohazardZx> yexo see that post, patch.exe returns with black empty screen
22:19:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> its the patch i guess
22:19:56  <Yexo> patch.exe is a console program
22:20:10  <Yexo> so you have to start it from a console, not by double-clicking it
22:20:22  <Yexo> mingw = a console
22:20:27  <ZxBiohazardZx> If a process named patch.exe is running on your computer, you may have been infected with a strain of the Netbus worm.
22:20:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> i LOVE it:)
22:20:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> second hit from the google you send:P
22:21:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> you wanted first hit:P
22:21:08  <Roujin> hmm.. yes then I certainly handled it wrong
22:21:16  <Yexo> hits are personalised, so for me it was the second hit
22:22:08  <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway im off, ttyl and again yexo/rubidium thnx for helping me out, you guys always seem to be hre:)
22:22:20  <dihedral> hehe - Yexo, i felt like replying :-P
22:22:41  <Yexo> yeah, nice reply :)
22:22:50  <Yexo> let's hope he gets the hint
22:23:11  <dihedral> he does not
22:23:12  <dihedral> :-D
22:23:27  <dihedral> he did not even got the hint in T<something's> patch pack thread
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22:24:23  <petern> dihedral, i think you're mean
22:24:29  <petern> (carry on)
22:24:36  <Yexo> lol, I'm just reading back the logs from 17/6, when nekomaster was banned here, nice conversation :)
22:25:15  <petern> YOU'RE MAKING ME ANGRY
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22:25:38  <Korenn> ullo petern. do you have me on ignore or something?
22:25:44  <dihedral> petern: hehe
22:25:48  <petern> wut?
22:25:54  <dihedral> YOU MAKE ME ANGRY
22:26:07  <petern> Korenn, not afaik
22:26:11  <Korenn> I get a total zero reply on any PM's I send you :P
22:26:17  <dihedral> Korenn: and if you were on ignore, why differnece would that make to you?
22:26:27  <dihedral> you'd probably be there for a pretty good reason :-P
22:26:30  <petern> :s
22:26:34  <Korenn> dihedral: because I value his advice on a project
22:26:41  <petern> i have way too many windows open in irssi
22:26:48  <dihedral> lol
22:26:57  <Korenn> ok, so next time, don't try to PM. gotcha :P
22:27:12  <dihedral> PM's really can annoy people
22:28:18  <dihedral> time to hit the sack
22:28:24  <petern>  [23:28] [@petern [Act: 4,5,6,8,9,10,11,13,14,15,16,17,18,21,22,23,24,25,26,28
22:28:26  <petern> pom te pom
22:28:33  <petern> tend not to see stuff :p
22:28:37  <SpComb> how open-ended
22:28:48  <dihedral> LOL
22:29:08  <dihedral> who wants 28 windows open in irssi :P
22:29:28  <petern> that's only what shows up to
22:29:56  <Korenn> petern: so I coded the TC industries myself (and fixed the cargos). I next want to map out what exactly to code
22:30:04  <Korenn> do you think that's an advisable approach?
22:30:09  <petern> sure
22:30:15  <SpComb>
22:30:34  <petern> SpComb :D
22:31:14  <Korenn> I'd like to occasionally pick your brain if you don't mind, so that I don't work myself into code-invasive dead ends ;)
22:31:24  <dihedral> hehe - yuck
22:32:18  * dihedral pats petern on the back :-D
22:32:23  <dihedral> go go go
22:32:26  <dihedral> to bed!
22:32:28  <dihedral> night all
22:32:41  <dihedral> oh my - did i just say 'all'? pfft
22:32:45  <dihedral> forget it
22:32:58  <petern> yeah, piss off slag :D
22:33:03  <Korenn> SpComb: at that time, I think you're due a chat medium change :P
22:35:23  *** reldred [~reldred@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: the part on the left reads like a brainfuck program
22:37:52  <Roujin> Eddi|zuHause: lol, I thought the same
22:38:47  <SpComb> yeah, major nerd alert
22:38:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r16648 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: move some more includes around
22:39:32  <Roujin> what is it, though?
22:40:10  <SpComb> run it and see
22:42:53  <Eddi|zuHause> right, i wanted to write a brainfuck interpreter
22:43:42  <Eddi|zuHause> parser shouldn't be too difficult, just mind the bracket structure
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22:52:14  <petern> looks like some geek code to me
22:52:52  <petern>
22:53:29  <petern>
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23:13:47  <Roujin> can anyone give me some pointers how to handle utf8 strings in openttd (I'd like to print them to a file)? This is what I currently have:  Obviously it doesn't work with utf8 and writes some ascii garbage in the places where non-ascii chars are
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23:17:38  <Zammler> good night #openttd
23:17:44  <SmatZ> bye Zammler
23:18:12  *** Zammler is now known as Ammler
23:18:42  <Belugas> hu?  nekohamster was there?
23:19:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but you did not really miss anything :p
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23:23:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r16649 /trunk/src/ai/ai_scanner.cpp:
23:23:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix: When the exact AI version a game was saved with is no longer available and
23:23:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: the latest version of the AI can't load data from that AI version, use the
23:23:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: latest available version of the AI that can load the data instead of the first
23:23:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: found version that can load the data.
23:24:14  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r16650 /trunk/src/ai/ai_scanner.cpp: -Fix (r16649): missing ()
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23:29:18  <Belugas> ho... good then... i shall go back to sound editing
23:31:31  <petern> hmm?
23:31:40  <petern> oh
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23:34:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r16651 /trunk/src/saveload/ai_sl.cpp: -Fix: When there is no AI version that can load data from the savegame, load the latest version of the same AI instead of a random AI.
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23:59:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r16652 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:
23:59:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Codechange: use less strict, but faster check for quickly bailing out in FindTrainCollideEnum() (Bilbo)
23:59:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Codechange: shuffle the code a bit

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