Log for #openttd on 14th August 2009:
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00:07:28  <OwenS> lol
00:07:49  <OwenS> sending pop3 account? pop3 doesn't do sending
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01:52:41  <Tefad> so managed to get three intercontinental airports around a factory in tropical map
01:52:49  <Tefad> the third airport isn't picking up goods...
01:53:25  <Tefad> i am le confused.
01:53:45  <glx> only the two best stations get stuff
01:54:04  <Tefad> yeah?
01:54:07  <Tefad> balls
01:54:19  <Tefad> why have i never noticed this before : x
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02:02:25  <Tefad> what about multiple industries accepting goods
02:04:29  <Tefad> crap segfault
02:04:43  <Tefad> ottd totally hates me this round.
02:05:06  <Tefad> i like to do really dumb things.. which tends to make ottd explode
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02:05:50  <Tefad> i have a train station being fed by upward of 10 lumber mills at full capacity
02:06:19  <Tefad> dumping into a single factory.. then flying the goods all the way across a 2048 map
02:06:38  <Tefad> train length of 24, just for good measure
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06:07:29  <nicfer> omg this is epic fail
06:07:46  <nicfer> i was downloading the base graphics but it hang up at 100%
06:07:56  <nicfer> 3.20Mb out of 3.20Mb
06:08:01  <nicfer> bytes, that is
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06:11:50  <dihedral> and how long did you wait?
06:11:52  <dihedral> and which os?
06:11:58  <dihedral> and which version of openttd?
06:12:18  <dihedral> nicfer, ^
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06:36:33  <nicfer> like 20 minutes
06:36:44  <nicfer> windows xp, openttd 0.7.2
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06:52:33  <TrueBrain> awh, that is sad :(
06:52:50  <TrueBrain> we should build in a download resumer! :P
06:53:52  <TrueBrain> morning all
06:54:15  <TrueBrain> how is this beautful day handling you?
06:54:50  <dihedral> quite well
06:54:54  <dihedral> :-)
06:55:02  <TrueBrain> do tell!
06:55:16  <dihedral> i may work on a neatly set up svn server
06:55:27  <dihedral> ... + a php management tool for the svn repositories :-S
06:55:36  <dihedral> PLUS
06:55:37  <TrueBrain> if that aleady makes a good day, you normally have to work with terrible stuff :p
06:55:42  <dihedral> it's my last day before 3 weeks off
06:56:02  <dihedral> well - getting the hang of Zend Framework
06:56:05  <TrueBrain> so then you finally are going to do the console stuff? :p
06:56:07  <dihedral> makes it easier :-P
06:56:09  <TrueBrain> Zend is nice :)
06:56:22  <dihedral> i have to process like ... nothing?
06:56:38  <dihedral> it's great - it has everything in pre-defined directories
06:56:45  <TrueBrain> you can profile PHP sites :p
06:56:46  <dihedral> you just add you stuff and once it works all is good
06:56:53  <dihedral> uh yeah :-)
06:57:03  <dihedral> + zend optimizer in apache :-P
06:57:24  <TrueBrain> as good as any other optimizer, but yeah :p
06:58:15  <dihedral> well, if i have to do this php thing - i am at least trying to get it be released under GPL
06:58:33  <dihedral> make a project out of it :-P
06:58:42  <TrueBrain> I myself have to work on a PHP CMS the next few days .. blegh ..
06:58:56  <dihedral> yeah - CMS is a bit heavier :-P
06:59:06  <TrueBrain> well, closed source and shit ..
06:59:11  <dihedral> yummm
06:59:11  <TrueBrain> own 'type' of XML
06:59:19  <dihedral> yeah - i read that :-D
06:59:30  <dihedral> [smile]too funny[/smile]
06:59:34  <TrueBrain> :p
07:11:21  <TrueBrain> releasedatum: 02/07/1904 <- looking through CD albums .. I doubt that date is valid
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07:19:41  <nicfer> oh, it seems it was the internet connection
07:19:46  <nicfer> expensive and slow
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08:17:27  <pavel1269> hello :-)
08:17:39  <TrueBrain> hello pavel1269
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08:48:53  <dihedral> TrueBrain, 1904... was it a cd of a .... record?
08:49:03  <TrueBrain> cd :p
08:51:44  <dihedral> perhaps it was from 2004 and they used an old computer and only entered 04 :-D
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10:21:01  <BaronChaos> hi, i'm having some fun with the TestAI. is there a way to get syntax/loading errors? i changed the GetShortName return to "MKI" and my ai wasn't shown and couldn't be loaded with start_ai, all it only says "failed to load" but not why. i think the short name is used somewhere else but it would be nice to be told that - is there an option/debugging level to get such messages?
10:21:40  <Rubidium> try -d ai=9 as command line parameter
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10:22:39  <BaronChaos> thanks that works for me
10:22:40  <Rubidium> might very well be that the shortname isn't 4 characters
10:22:47  <BaronChaos> yeah
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11:06:58  <planetmaker> whoa, you're really fast with OpenSFX, Rubidium :-) Kudos
11:07:40  <TrueBrain> hmm .. we need a kudo scoreboard :p
11:07:56  <planetmaker> :-P
11:08:07  <planetmaker> you're one of the webmasters :-P
11:08:13  <TrueBrain> haha
11:08:20  <TrueBrain> enough other projects which have much higher prio :P
11:08:25  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
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11:20:17  <TrueBrain> lol, 15% of ours visitors is dutch ... 11% is US :p
11:20:24  <TrueBrain> (well .. the recent stats at least suggest that outcome)
11:20:53  <TrueBrain> I have my questionsmarks at these results, dunno why :p
11:21:07  <TrueBrain> (last month it was 6% vs 15% :p)
11:23:02  <planetmaker> got a link to the stats? :-)
11:23:04  * planetmaker is curious
11:23:15  <TrueBrain>
11:23:18  <TrueBrain> sounds obvious, not? :p
11:23:36  <planetmaker> hehe. might be a link which could be guessed :-)
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11:24:17  <planetmaker> 4GB traffic per month...
11:24:21  <planetmaker> and rising
11:24:50  <TrueBrain> 4GB? Did you read it in any way correct? :p
11:25:22  <planetmaker> I quoted the monthly totals...
11:25:33  <Rubidium> 427032635 KiB
11:25:35  <TrueBrain> 427032635
11:25:38  <TrueBrain> how is that 4GB?
11:25:44  <TrueBrain> in what math system can that ever be 4?
11:25:54  <TrueBrain> when the unit is .. 100 bytes? :)
11:25:57  <Rubidium> 427032635 KiB -> ~ 427032 MiB -> ~427 GiB
11:26:00  <planetmaker> he... cumulative... yeah. in 4 billion kilobytes :-P
11:26:41  * dihedral likes the look of that ~
11:26:41  <planetmaker> yeah :-)
11:27:01  * planetmaker needs coffein obviously
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11:27:38  * dihedral feels moond
11:28:09  * Sacro feels dihedral
11:28:12  <Sacro> ;)
11:28:18  <TrueBrain> *gay alert*
11:29:25  <Sacro> ooh *fantastic*
11:29:57  * dihedral looks at the stats and smirks at googlebot
11:30:08  <dihedral> 847262 hits for last month :-P
11:30:20  <TrueBrain> a total of 6 hits a second, and going up ..
11:30:35  * Rubidium notes that those stats do no include the other stuff like svn/ottd_content
11:30:46  <TrueBrain> http only, yes :)
11:30:54  <TrueBrain> hmm .. svn proxy ..
11:30:59  <TrueBrain> would be useful :p
11:31:12  <planetmaker>  /releases/0.7.1/openttd-0.7.1-windows-win32.exe is funnily enough noted twice in the top 30
11:31:31  <planetmaker> oh, no. once exe, once zip
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11:31:42  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: all stats before augustus are 'corrupted' in their URLs
11:31:55  <TrueBrain> in aug I just disabled it :p
11:32:04  <planetmaker> disabled what?
11:32:11  <TrueBrain> urls
11:32:12  <TrueBrain> do you read? :p
11:32:35  <planetmaker> yes. But didn't look at August.
11:32:46  <planetmaker> and url != all stats :-P
11:32:47  <TrueBrain> ....
11:32:52  <TrueBrain> I don't think planetmaker reads .. :(
11:32:56  <dihedral> TrueBrain, i used to change the log file format to include the servername :-P
11:33:15  <TrueBrain> dihedral: considered it, but it would be too slow :p
11:33:33  <TrueBrain> I wish stats-thingies would be more clever, and detect the domain is in the log-file ..
11:33:45  <dihedral> it would be too slow?
11:33:53  <dihedral> how much too slow? and how come?
11:34:10  <dihedral> or use a different log file per vhost :-D
11:34:22  <TrueBrain> ....
11:34:24  <TrueBrain> no
11:34:26  <dihedral> :-D
11:34:39  <dihedral> and then parse them into one and then run webalizer :_D
11:35:05  <TrueBrain> funny, if we compare last year with this year, the bandwidth is doubled
11:35:12  <TrueBrain> but the amount of visitors didn't
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11:35:19  <TrueBrain> the hits did increase ..
11:35:24  <TrueBrain> @calc 167/128
11:35:24  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 1.3046875
11:35:28  <TrueBrain> with 30% ..
11:35:33  <TrueBrain> @calc 427 / 244
11:35:33  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 1.75
11:35:41  <dihedral> TrueBrain, website changed?
11:35:49  <TrueBrain> either our pages got much bigger, or people use the more intense parts of it :p
11:35:56  <dihedral> hits to media. and www. ?
11:36:02  <TrueBrain> how about: binaries? :p
11:36:05  <dihedral> so they are counted double :-P
11:36:17  <TrueBrain> huh?
11:36:27  <dihedral> :-P
11:36:33  <dihedral> c'mon - let me be silly
11:36:47  <TrueBrain> silly okay, but ther eis a point wher eI just don't follow you
11:36:56  <dihedral> yeah - ok
11:36:57  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: bananas/content stuff takes a lot to
11:37:05  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: but that isn't in those graphs :p
11:37:22  <dihedral> it would be interesting to see which subdomain comsumes which amount
11:37:38  <TrueBrain> dihedral: make a tool which does so
11:37:51  <dihedral> webalizer
11:37:55  <TrueBrain> doesn't
11:37:56  <dihedral> just feed it separate log files :-D
11:38:18  <TrueBrain> you want a kick, or what?
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11:38:25  * dihedral bounces around smiling
11:38:35  <TrueBrain> I think someone needs to get late
11:38:45  <dihedral> "late"?
11:38:47  <SmatZ> late?
11:38:50  <dihedral> :-D
11:38:50  <TrueBrain> haha
11:38:53  <TrueBrain> nasty typos ..
11:39:12  <dihedral> and you dont just substitute the t for a d
11:39:29  <OwenS> Thats a Think-o? :p
11:39:35  <TrueBrain> nope .. fingers faster than brains capable of translating
11:39:37  <TrueBrain> happens ;)
11:39:37  <OwenS> Or perhaps a brain-o? :p
11:39:46  <SmatZ> :)
11:39:49  <OwenS> Aah... wonderful buffer underruns
11:40:01  <OwenS> At least on IRC you don't have to listen to people going "Erm" :p
11:40:01  <TrueBrain> happens a bit too often :(
11:40:06  <dihedral> TrueBrain, considered the nick "TrueFinger" :-D
11:40:30  <TrueBrain> why does using google images on "getting laid" give you a female with GOOGLE on her shirt as one of the first hits?
11:40:40  <TrueBrain> and then they say they are 'fair' in rating their pages?!
11:40:43  <SmatZ> hehe
11:40:43  <TrueBrain> HELL NO!
11:40:52  <dihedral> why do you google "getting laid" on images?
11:41:13  <TrueBrain> because I was wondering how good the anti-porno filter really was
11:41:18  <TrueBrain> I found a penis so far :p
11:41:24  <dihedral> congratulations
11:41:31  <dihedral> now we for sure know you are male
11:41:38  <TrueBrain> <- and this of course
11:41:52  <dihedral> is that safe for work or not?
11:41:53  <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: I take it you've heard of the Google Images Porn Game
11:41:56  * Sacro yawns
11:42:02  <TrueBrain> dihedral: not sure .. I think it is
11:42:07  <dihedral> yeah - nothing new to you Sacro, is it
11:42:08  <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: no?
11:42:28  <Sacro> TrueBrain: that's highly illegal in most countries you know
11:42:29  <dihedral> :-D LOL
11:42:39  <OwenS> Sacro: Most?
11:42:40  <Prof_Frink> Basically, think of some search terms, turn safesearch off and see how many pages before you get porn.
11:42:55  <Sacro> OwenS: it's illegal in the UK
11:42:55  <Prof_Frink> Whoever gets furthest wins.
11:43:04  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: we did it with girls names
11:43:05  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: You're illegal in the UK
11:43:05  <dihedral> OwenS, Sacro always moves to the country it's not illegal in
11:43:15  <Sacro> dihedral: no, i'm still int he UK
11:43:15  <TrueBrain> I liked the game more where you have to find 2 search words that return exactly 1 reesult
11:43:34  <dihedral> Sacro, and where is the VPN server?
11:43:47  <Sacro>
11:43:52  <Sacro> that didn't wirk
11:43:55  <dihedral> TrueBrain, failure and bush
11:44:14  <TrueBrain> Sacro: is that a 'first hit', or does that not fall under porn Prof_Frink?
11:44:26  <TrueBrain> dihedral: 14300000 hits
11:44:33  <TrueBrain> which translates to 0.14G in planetmaker math system
11:44:35  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: 3 pages for 'gwyneth'
11:45:01  <dihedral> since when do you calculate hits in G
11:45:10  <dihedral> and since when are they then not / 1000
11:45:17  <TrueBrain> dihedral: ask planetmaker!
11:45:31  <dihedral> Prof_Frink, try lawnmower :-D
11:45:44  <dihedral> that might get gross though :-D
11:45:55  <dihedral> or vacuum cleaner
11:46:06  <Sacro> dihedral: you'd call your daughter 'lawnmowe'?
11:46:15  <dihedral> :-D
11:46:23  <Sacro>
11:46:31  <Sacro> 3rd pic
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11:46:36  <TrueBrain> is that porn?
11:46:50  <planetmaker> pah...
11:47:01  <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: It's Sacro. Everything's porn.
11:47:05  <dihedral> i guess marry poppins would not go far either
11:47:17  <dihedral> lol @ Prof_Frink
11:47:26  <TrueBrain> <- see, page 10
11:47:29  <TrueBrain> then it shows porn
11:47:37  <Sacro> actually, that might be
11:47:37  <TrueBrain> (work safe, dihedral, I promise)
11:47:49  <dihedral> :-P
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11:47:55  <dihedral> not in india
11:47:55  <Sacro> 5 page and no porn, broed now
11:48:22  <dihedral> tux <- try that, that should get you far... unless..........
11:48:40  <dihedral> and no, the bsd devil humping tux does not count as porn
11:48:52  <dihedral> it's too........ fuzzy
11:48:56  <TrueBrain> 3rd page:
11:49:17  <dihedral> that aint porn, that's a kids drawing
11:49:18  <dihedral> :-P
11:50:07  <Rubidium> when I thought the 'conversation' with petert was a low point...
11:50:17  <OwenS> lol
11:50:18  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that is a different type of low :p
11:50:36  <dihedral> tree :-P
11:51:17  <dihedral> Rubidium, tread on it :-P
11:52:40  <Prof_Frink> Oh look, the Sun's nicking stuff from b3ta again.
11:52:50  <OwenS> lol
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12:24:34  <Rubidium> planetmaker: one thing I'm sure of with OSFX is that the quality isn't that great and that I'm primarily looking for reasonable samples and adding those; later people may worry about quality ;)
12:25:16  <Rubidium> you got to love some descriptions in the original though
12:25:49  <TrueBrain> example?
12:26:04  <Rubidium> "maglev 2?" = sound of monorail
12:26:20  <TrueBrain> in the original as found on the cd?
12:26:36  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: yes
12:26:38  <TrueBrain> haha
12:26:39  <TrueBrain> funny :)
12:27:14  <Rubidium> the sound "balloon squeak" is used for the falling tree of the lumberjack
12:27:41  <TrueBrain> if it sounds good ... it sounds good :p
12:28:09  <Rubidium> "plane crashing" is used for toyland propellor planes taking off
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12:35:45  <dihedral> :-P
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13:33:01  <Prof_Frink>
13:33:51  <SpComb> safety rating three stars
13:36:08  <SpComb> oh, a non-destructive bus test
13:36:54  * Prof_Frink puts SpComb on the cornflake bus
13:37:08  <dihedral> (unit 1)
13:37:33  <Prof_Frink> (Cornflakes are, of course, the universal cereal)
13:38:00  <planetmaker> <Rubidium> "plane crashing" is used for toyland propellor planes taking off <--- haha :-)
13:38:07  <planetmaker> that's good.
13:40:27  <SmatZ> Prof_Frink: wtf is that?
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13:46:23  <pavel1269> :-O ... my train just had a breakdown with breakdowns off ... :-O
13:47:29  <SmatZ> pavel1269: UFO nearby?
13:49:48  <pavel1269> no
13:49:53  <pavel1269> disasters off
13:50:04  <TrueBrain> sounds like you broke something :p
13:50:11  <SmatZ> :)
13:50:39  <pavel1269> well, jsut tryed, "resetengines" may this help? i was a bit messing with grfs while playing ^^
13:52:03  <TrueBrain> ah, there comes the monkey out of the sleve!
13:53:12  <pavel1269> then, resetengines should be called automatically afte grf change in-game :-)
13:53:38  <TrueBrain> then, you should not alter grfs in-game :p
13:54:27  <pavel1269> i usually remember that, just while trying to build sth, what is not in the list :-)
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13:58:08  <dihedral> "just" is just too much ;-)
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14:00:51  <Alberth> Hmm, the /topic is apparently still lost.
14:02:26  <Rubidium> Alberth: really? I've got the topic as it should be
14:03:13  <Alberth> If I type /topic it stays empty here but not in the dev channel
14:04:18  *** Rubidium changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.2 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, translator: translator, server list: servers, nightly-builds: nightly, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only
14:04:21  <pavel1269> topic working as expected :-)
14:04:23  <Rubidium> does that help?
14:04:42  <pavel1269> topic working as expected :-)
14:04:50  <pavel1269> sorry ...
14:05:03  <SpComb> servers lose topic-sync
14:06:06  <Alberth> I did add IRC helper to my Pidgin for logging in, but different behavior for different channels is weird
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14:06:46  <Rubidium> Alberth: topic in the dev channel is updated automatically regularly
14:07:28  <Alberth> he, it is back after disabling the IRC helper. Maybe it is just me.
14:09:43  <Rubidium> Alberth: might very well be that I (re)set the topic
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14:11:04  <Alberth> I'll live a while without /topic, and keep an eye on things to see whether there is a pattern.
14:12:49  <petern> on the wiki "We also have a development community on our IRC channel" < points to #openttd
14:13:01  <petern> i suppose that should point to the hidden channel?
14:13:35  <Alberth> that is not a community, just a bunch of people making random changes in the source code :p
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14:57:37  <TrueBrain> downside of torrents .. when 1 person starts to seed, and 10 persons download, it goes faster than when 100 persons download (while still 1 person seeds)
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14:58:03  <pavel1269> lol ... sure? ^^
14:58:51  <tokai> TrueBrain: depends on how smart the seed's client injects the initial copy into the swarm.
14:58:55  <TrueBrain> it takes time to travel to other people, after which it starts to increase in speed ...
14:58:59  <valhallasw> TrueBrain: well, that's true for the first blocks
14:59:03  <TrueBrain> tokai: in this case, poorly :p
14:59:28  <TrueBrain> okay, it has to be noted that the amount of people leeching went up from 3, to over the 500 now .. :p (in 10 minutes or so :p)
14:59:41  <pavel1269> what are you seeding? :-)
14:59:45  <valhallasw> but afaik most clients try to distribute as much data around the swarm as possible
14:59:51  <tokai> TrueBrain: sometimes the initial seed has to seed like 2 copies or such before someone else sees one full copy (because the client seeds same pieces multiple times, depending on peers requests :)
14:59:51  <TrueBrain> my download went from 100 mbit to 10 mbit :p
15:00:08  <TrueBrain> tokai: yeah ....
15:00:13  <valhallasw> TrueBrain: just lie another cable to the other side of the road for those purposes!
15:00:16  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: I am not seeding :p
15:00:16  <pavel1269> tokai: use "start seed" feature?
15:00:34  <TrueBrain> and if you want to know what I am leeching ... open a random torrent site, you will know when you see it :p
15:00:34  <pavel1269> or however it is called
15:00:50  <TrueBrain> bah, down to 3 mbit ...
15:01:06  <pavel1269> sounds like a game ... is it a movie? :-)
15:01:14  <TrueBrain> movie, 720p
15:01:17  <tokai> pavel1269: depends if the client has such feature:)
15:01:17  <TrueBrain> the rest I leave to you :)
15:01:29  <pavel1269> tokai: most have this ...
15:01:48  <TrueBrain> would be nice to see the tree, where which blocks are loaded, at which speed, and what it does for average download time
15:02:36  <TrueBrain> lol, I am no longer connected to the person seeding, that can explain my loss in speed :p
15:03:37  <tokai> best is to find some swedes or some japanese or korean guys, they usually have the best upload speeds :)
15:04:13  <TrueBrain> well .. we run here all on 100 mbit, so that is not the real issue :p
15:04:36  <pavel1269> TrueBrain: where the **** do you live? :-)
15:04:37  * tokai has only 1mbit :D
15:04:45  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: I myself have student housing
15:04:55  <TrueBrain> but this whole torrent hub has only 100mbit users
15:05:07  <TrueBrain> sometimes 10mbit, but those are rare :p
15:05:18  <pavel1269> baaah, they should cut you off :P
15:05:24  <TrueBrain> why?
15:05:31  <TrueBrain> because I use the darn connection?
15:06:17  <pavel1269> ye! :D
15:06:37  <pavel1269> hmm, cant find anythink special, what just went "outside"
15:06:56  * tokai doesn't find the HDTV OpenTTD video on random torrent sites :)
15:07:03  <pavel1269> :D
15:07:35  <TrueBrain> it hit the usenet 37 minutes ago
15:07:44  <TrueBrain> possible it is a p2p .. don't care so much about that :p
15:09:12  <tokai> Must be something weird that you're so ashamed of to mention its name. :P
15:09:15  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: the dvdrip was 2 weeks ago, maybe that explains you missing it :p
15:09:16  *** Elton02612 [] has joined #openttd
15:09:29  <TrueBrain> nah, I have been waiting for this money a long time :)
15:09:29  *** PhoenixII [] has joined #openttd
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15:09:42  <pavel1269> well, i dont watch anythink that new ^^
15:09:43  <TrueBrain> I refused to watch a certain other version of it :p
15:09:56  <pavel1269> sounds like HP or sth new ...
15:10:06  <TrueBrain> IEUW!
15:10:10  <TrueBrain> what kind of person do you think I am?
15:10:26  <pavel1269> well, you know, TB ... :D
15:10:37  <tokai> Sounds like a 'censored-vs.-uncensored-pr0n' issue to me:)
15:10:44  * tokai runs
15:10:56  <TrueBrain> LOL! okay, my client was broken .. I re-announced myself, and now it picked up speed again :p
15:12:24  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: either way,, nuff said :p
15:12:33  <pavel1269> i know! Daffy Duck's Quackbusters! :D
15:12:37  <valhallasw> TrueBrain: 5058kbps ViDEO, by any chance? :P
15:12:58  <valhallasw> oh right
15:13:09  <valhallasw> -_-
15:13:15  <tokai> The Real World S22E08?
15:13:17  <TrueBrain> 80 mbit down, 55 mbit up .. that are more the speed I expected :p
15:13:19  <tokai> wtf. :D
15:13:20  <TrueBrain> tokai: YES!!!!
15:14:00  <tokai> Maybe I should check out Hannah Montana The Movie-ViTALiTY  \o/ :D
15:14:06  <TrueBrain> it is nice :p
15:14:21  <TrueBrain> just ... they ... well .. they cut out pieces it looks like, and that makes it feel ... unfinished
15:14:25  <tokai> ah.. that seems to be a game or something
15:14:28  <tokai> well.. :)
15:14:42  <TrueBrain> (the movie, that is)
15:15:05  <TrueBrain> other movie tip: The Boat That Rocked
15:15:07  <TrueBrain> lovely movie :)
15:15:33  <tokai> I didn't watch a movie since months I guess. I'm more watching my TV shows :)
15:16:26  *** lewymati [] has quit []
15:18:14  <TrueBrain> your loss, I say
15:19:55  <Rubidium> also a TV show called "Learning C++ and compiling GCC 4 for MorphOS. The real story"? :)
15:20:10  <tokai> TrueBrain: Well, I watched Metropolis a few times actually. :)
15:20:16  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you are trying that? I once tried to apply a patch from tokai .. gave up on it :p
15:20:40  <tokai> all my patches were still in C back in the days:)
15:20:41  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I've given up on it also
15:20:54  <TrueBrain> it is sad :(
15:20:58  <TrueBrain> MorphOS was nice to support :p
15:21:19  <TrueBrain> too bad that community can't even produce a good modern compiler :p :p :p :p
15:21:22  * TrueBrain hugs tokai
15:21:31  <tokai> We're currently busy with the Mac release, maybe if you have a old Mac mini/ PPC around you have a chance to try yourself:)
15:21:49  <TrueBrain> the only ppc I have is PearPC :P
15:21:50  <tokai> TrueBrain: oh well.. we have various gcc 4's  etc.
15:22:01  <Rubidium> ... if we would have a mac I reckon the number of mac bug reports that are open for eons would be considerably lower
15:22:10  <TrueBrain> the last gcc4 patch you gave me never came past the cross compile part :p
15:22:17  *** Antigon [~Poly@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:22:22  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that is exactly what I wrote Apple :)
15:22:23  <tokai> TrueBrain: ah.. you meant that pathc
15:22:26  <TrueBrain> still no reply though :(
15:22:35  <tokai> TrueBrain: I thoght you were refering to OpenTTD patches
15:22:39  <TrueBrain> no no :)
15:22:52  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: do you expect a reply? (I think hoping for a reply is the most we'll get)
15:23:02  <TrueBrain> no, I expect it
15:23:10  <tokai> Bjarni isn't around anymore either?
15:23:13  <TrueBrain> I emailed someone on his personal account, so I expect a reply
15:23:44  <Rubidium> when Bjarni is around he doesn't do anything remotely useful w.r.t. OpenTTD
15:23:56  <Rubidium> (except increasing the line count of #openttd)
15:24:01  <tokai> sounds like me:)
15:24:03  <TrueBrain> and Bjarni also never managed to fix a few of those bugs (simply lack of knowledge, no offense meant)
15:24:22  <tokai> Tbh, I'm a little bit scared to try a compile of current trunk on MorphOS :)
15:24:30  <TrueBrain> hehe
15:24:31  <tokai> C++ scares me:)
15:24:32  <TrueBrain> I guess you should ;)
15:24:33  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: don't be scared
15:24:39  <TrueBrain> wrong tab
15:24:47  <Rubidium> it won't get to the C++ part
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15:25:26  <tokai> last time i checked it looked like some more simple problems (conflicting types with system stuff and so on)
15:25:39  <TrueBrain> so make some time and try it :p
15:25:46  <TrueBrain> or donate us a machine where we can try it on :p :p
15:26:14  <tokai> I'm not that rich:)
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15:26:34  <tokai> TrueBrain: I got myself 2 machines donated actually:)
15:26:37  <TrueBrain> I really hope Apple replies in a positive way .. then maybe we can fix those OSX problems and have a bit more stable binaries :(
15:26:56  <Audigex> what's up with the apple version?
15:27:12  <Audigex> from a curiousity point of view :) my osx knowledge is pretty much zilch
15:27:12  <Rubidium> Audigex: besides poor support for some core features?
15:27:22  <Rubidium> let me see...
15:27:25  <TrueBrain> he joins, read something, and replies to it. Rarely a good thing :p
15:27:32  <Rubidium> no way to enter CJK characters
15:27:38  <Audigex> i like to jump in halfway through a conversation
15:27:44  <Rubidium> sometimes the OS' mouse pointer doesn't get hidden
15:27:44  <TrueBrain> :)
15:28:01  <Rubidium> moving the map with scrolling touchpad apparantly fails in some cases
15:28:03  <tokai> Rubidium: I doubt that would work in the MorphOS version either:)
15:28:03  <Audigex> i had that on my eee pc at one point, couldn't replicate it though
15:28:15  <tokai> Rubidium: that CJK input
15:28:30  <tokai> not that it is important :)
15:28:31  <TrueBrain> tokai: the question is: lack of OS, or lack of knowledge to add in OpenTTD? :p
15:28:46  <tokai> TrueBrain: no such thing in the OS yet.
15:28:51  <TrueBrain> my point :)
15:28:56  <Rubidium> also the OSX port uses ancient stuff in the API, which isn't supported anymore in the newer versions (some stuff doesn't even work in 10.5 64 bits)
15:29:13  <Audigex> so it's not even that it's awkward to hack it into the code to work in osx, it's  just not possible?
15:29:16  <Audigex> that is pretty shit
15:29:36  <Rubidium> then the OSX port doesn't do automatic font detection, which makes support for any non-ASCII language shitty
15:29:50  <TrueBrain> none of the above is the fault of OSX. It is the fault of no Mac owned by any dev :p
15:30:02  <tokai> Rubidium: that's an advantage of MorphOS.. it has stable public APIs :)   sometimes scary how some APIs on OSX change with each release:)
15:30:06  <Rubidium> not to mention the vast amount of tricks we have to do to keep OSX compiling
15:30:26  <Audigex> no dev owns a mac?
15:30:33  <Audigex> not even a hackintosh?
15:30:41  <Rubidium> Audigex: exactly
15:30:47  <TrueBrain> we cross compile the binaries
15:30:51  <TrueBrain> which is not really .. stable
15:30:56  <Rubidium> and last *we* tried to make a hackintosh VM we failed horribly
15:31:00  <TrueBrain> tokai: OSX in fact does a nice job keepings its API clear, what belongs to what version
15:31:12  <tokai> Rubidium: usually projects use donations for financing required hardware (or are server support costs that high, nothing is left of (maybe little) donations)?
15:31:24  <Audigex> tokai
15:31:29  <Audigex> checked the price of a mac lately?
15:31:36  <Audigex> or in fact, ever
15:31:38  <tokai> I bought Macs lately
15:31:43  <TrueBrain> I think using 1700 dollar is maybe a bit much :p
15:31:46  <Audigex> yeah
15:31:47  <tokai> you don't need a powermac for this, a mac mini is enough
15:31:57  <tokai> MacPro I meant
15:32:01  <Rubidium> tokai: a leased! OSX server costs TWICE what the current server costs
15:32:03  <Audigex> i dont mind donating a fiver for the server costs
15:32:21  <TrueBrain> tokai: and then the issue: to who does the hardware go? :p
15:32:40  <Rubidium> and then for the current server we got 2TB of bandwidth and the OSX one a few GB
15:32:44  <tokai> Rubidium: err. that'S not what I meant. I meant after you remove the server support costs from available donations you buy a small Mac from the rest for development
15:32:57  <Audigex> even a small mac is ridiculously expensive
15:33:19  <Audigex> for what it is
15:33:35  <Audigex> you can build a basic windows box for ?250 even without recycling any parts
15:33:46  <TrueBrain> well, this year there is no need for a fundraiser to support the hosting, as we have enough to cover that. That is a plus for this year ;)
15:33:47  <OwenS> Audigex: I built one for ?200. Dual core Atom Mini-ITX
15:33:55  <OwenS> Admittedly running Linux but Windows would run fine
15:34:06  <tokai> TrueBrain: of course to someone who is willing to spend time on the OSX port:)
15:34:07  <TrueBrain> OwenS: 'fine' .. ;)
15:34:08  <Audigex> owen, even more to my point
15:34:15  <Audigex> but a mac mini is ?500
15:34:22  <TrueBrain> either way, tokai, it is way way way too expensive for one target
15:34:24  <Audigex> even for the most basic one
15:34:25  <Rubidium> also a small OSX box would likely cause the compile farm's run to double
15:34:26  <Audigex> yeah
15:34:50  <Audigex> let those who have the money to afford a mac (ie, more than sense) donate a mac mini
15:34:59  <TrueBrain> tokai: either way, that is the reason we wrote Apple, to ask if they can do anything for us, if possible in the form of an XServe
15:35:12  <Audigex> but it's a bit much to expect the windows users to fund the osx development
15:35:22  <Audigex> *openttd on osx development
15:35:28  <tokai> TrueBrain: I don't think Apple will care enough for that. Sadly.
15:35:31  <Audigex> made it sound like you were suggesting we all buy apple shares :)
15:35:40  <Audigex> apple are hardly open source proponents
15:35:41  <TrueBrain> we will see. Apple in general is pretty kind
15:35:55  <Audigex> Their own version, iTTD, is more likely
15:36:03  <TrueBrain> Microsoft on the other hand simply never ever replied on our request :(
15:36:13  <TrueBrain> (even resends seem to go /dev/null)
15:37:20  <Audigex> none of the big companies ever seem to respond to small projects
15:37:26  <OwenS> Audigex: Apple are decent at Open Souce. See Darwin and Bonjour.
15:37:33  <OwenS> And LLVM. And CUPS.
15:37:34  <Audigex> last i checked, nobody's gotten a reply re the original ttd copyrights etc
15:37:41  <TrueBrain> difference with Apple is, that I first called them :)
15:37:57  <Rubidium> hmm... cheapest mac requires a monitor, which they want to give you for a mere 850 euros
15:37:57  <TrueBrain> Audigex: then you didn't checked (good)enough
15:38:17  <Rubidium> so you end up with a macbook of ~1000 euros
15:38:42  <Audigex> TrueBrain: fair enough :) what did they say?
15:38:49  <TrueBrain> nothing that helps us :)
15:38:59  <Rubidium> OwenS: ever tried to compile a compiler with apple as target?
15:39:08  <Audigex> so they didn't even say no?
15:39:18  <OwenS> Rubidium: Nope. You using Apple's GCC tree?
15:39:33  <Rubidium> OwenS: yes, the stuff from darwinsource
15:39:47  <OwenS> Thats LLVM-GCC IIRC
15:39:51  <TrueBrain> no
15:40:04  <TrueBrain> the binutils (cctools) are also an issue
15:40:16  <OwenS> XCode for Snow Leopard (and Leopard?) ships LLVM-GCC
15:40:47  <Rubidium> not to mention the patching of the gcc from darwin source we need to do to be able to compile on a NON OSX machine
15:41:56  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the patching of cctools is worse :p
15:41:58  <Rubidium> e.g. the system libraries it looks at to determine what kind of compiler it is going to make
15:42:18  <Rubidium> true, that doesn't compile out of the box for shit on non-Apple
15:42:33  <TrueBrain> at one point we added the md5 routine of OpenTTD to get it to work :p
15:42:35  <TrueBrain> hehehe
15:43:08  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:43:15  <TrueBrain> there is a reason I (still) receive about 2 to 3 mails a month about cross compiling OSX :p
15:43:26  <TrueBrain> <- about that :p
15:43:59  <Rubidium> OwenS: leopard at darwinsource (10.5.8) doesn't list llvm
15:44:13  *** LordAzamath [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]]
15:44:40  <TrueBrain> hmm .. apple moved their site around :(
15:45:59  <Rubidium> nor does the source of gcc contain LLVM stuff (okay, it contains # APPLE LOCAL begin mainline llvm and an "end" for that in configure, but that's all)
15:46:04  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: oeh, btw, gcc 5493 is out :p (we use 5490)
15:46:17  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: borink ;)
15:46:20  <TrueBrain> oh, even 5572.10.2 ..
15:46:26  <TrueBrain> oh, 5646
15:46:29  <TrueBrain> I should learn to count :p
15:47:02  <Rubidium> gcc_42 you mean?
15:47:06  <TrueBrain> no
15:47:08  <TrueBrain> in the gcc dir
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15:48:44  <Audigex> is there anywhere detailing the ottd server backend etc?
15:48:47  <TrueBrain> anyway, I think we made our point about how difficult OSX has been for us :)
15:48:56  <TrueBrain> Audigex: what 'backend' do you refer to?
15:49:06  <glx> we just need a dev with a mac :)
15:49:11  <Audigex> well, just information about what servers there are, how they're linked and what they do
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15:49:37  <TrueBrain> 1 server, Quad Core, dedicated, 4 GB RAM, N GB HD (I wouldn't know), sponsored by LeaseWeb
15:49:47  <TrueBrain> and a few TB of bandwidth .. can't remember
15:49:49  <Audigex> and that does all the hosting and compiling etc?
15:50:21  <TrueBrain> yup
15:50:30  <TrueBrain> linux-vserver and virtualbox
15:50:36  <TrueBrain> the first to seperate main services from secondaries
15:50:47  <TrueBrain> the latter to give us nodes which do the compiles
15:51:03  <glx> we even natively compile for windows :)
15:51:10  <Audigex> so the compilations are all done on virtual machines?
15:51:15  <TrueBrain> yup
15:51:25  <Audigex> just using some sort of cron job or other scheduler?
15:51:35  <TrueBrain> other scheduler, I guess :p
15:51:41  <TrueBrain> there are a max of 3 VMs active at any given time
15:51:54  <Audigex> so it just runs 3, then as one finishes starts another?
15:51:59  <TrueBrain> (4 cores .. 3 VMs, 1 per core .. leaves 1 core for other operations :p)
15:52:08  <TrueBrain> target by target they are feeded to the VMs yes
15:52:14  <TrueBrain> every new target starts with a clean VM
15:52:17  <Audigex> kkoi
15:52:33  <Audigex> are the compilers different for each system?
15:52:46  <TrueBrain> every target needs another compiler mostly, yes
15:52:52  <glx> msvc for windows for example
15:52:58  <TrueBrain> target being: windows 9x, windows NT+
15:53:04  <TrueBrain> debian lenny
15:53:06  <TrueBrain> debian etch
15:53:07  <glx> mingw for win9x
15:53:10  <TrueBrain> linux 32bit
15:53:19  <TrueBrain> etc etc .. they all need different compilers
15:53:26  <TrueBrain> what glx says :)
15:53:39  <TrueBrain> OSX is currently the only target we cross-compile
15:53:51  <TrueBrain> the others are all 'native' to their VM
15:54:00  <Audigex> kay
15:54:06  <Audigex> thanks :)
15:54:16  <TrueBrain> see, much more useful then a page which states that :p
15:54:20  <Audigex> yeah
15:54:20  <TrueBrain> that would give a boring reading :)
15:54:29  <Audigex> well, i doubt enough people want to know for an actual page
15:54:39  <Audigex> i'z just doin me some learnin'
15:54:46  <TrueBrain> I once considered writing it down .. but things change too fast
15:54:48  <glx> btw which gcc version is used for mingw ?
15:54:49  <TrueBrain> doesn't get updated
15:54:51  <TrueBrain> people complain ..
15:54:53  <Audigex> yup
15:54:54  <Rubidium> but there already is a page that has all stuff
15:54:58  <Rubidium> glx: 3.ancient
15:55:07  <Audigex> im going to go update the visual server 2008 express wiki page later
15:55:10  <glx> ha 3.4.5 then
15:55:21  <Rubidium> I'll check that though
15:55:22  <Audigex> it doesnt explain it enough independently
15:55:25  <glx> 4.4.0 is stable for mingw now
15:55:27  <Audigex> i ended up spending longer on here
15:55:39  <TrueBrain> which page?
15:55:44  <Rubidium> glx: 4.4.0 is a) buggy (as per SmatZ bug report) and annoying
15:56:07  <Audigex>
15:56:11  <Audigex> it's technically right
15:56:14  <TrueBrain> ah, you refered to that :p
15:56:16  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: ;)
15:56:16  <Audigex> but it doesn't explain particularly well
15:56:30  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: hehehehehee :)
15:56:32  <Audigex> needs more emphasis on certain things
15:56:38  <Audigex> took me about 10 mins to find the project properties
15:56:40  <TrueBrain> another logger ...
15:56:48  <Audigex> too much assumed knowledge, basically
15:56:54  *** Pygma [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
15:57:39  <Audigex> look at rubidium with his fancy word-caputring device
15:57:43  <Audigex> *capturing
15:57:53  <TrueBrain> it is not him, who does that :)
15:57:56  <TrueBrain> bad assumption :p
15:58:03  <Audigex> again :(
15:58:07  <TrueBrain> either way, Audigex, if you want to know more technical aspects, feel free to ask
15:58:11  <Audigex> thanks :)
15:58:20  <Audigex> im mostly just working through the source code at the moment
15:58:26  <Audigex> i can program nicely in java
15:58:33  <Audigex> but projects are beyond anything i've ever done or had to do
15:58:34  <TrueBrain> not something to be proud at
15:58:38  <Eddi|zuHause> he has a device that can conserve spoken words through time! he's a witch!
15:58:47  <Audigex> i know, uni like java though
15:58:48  <TrueBrain> LOL @ Eddi|zuHause :)
15:58:57  <TrueBrain> the only good Java did was javadoc :p
15:59:02  <Audigex> yeah
15:59:06  <Audigex> i dont like it particularly
15:59:16  <Audigex> it's okay as a learning tool, but IMO C++ would be more useful
15:59:25  <Audigex> what's the point of learning without pointers and with garbage collection
15:59:40  <Audigex> if you just have to unlearn those habits later
15:59:49  <TrueBrain> the reason my uni teaches C++ :p
15:59:54  <Rubidium> Audigex: the point is that many uni people can't grasp pointers
15:59:55  <OwenS> Hah! My college teaches VB.Net... Ew
16:00:04  <Rubidium> and go incredible haywire when they hear about them
16:00:08  <Audigex> rubidium, true - but why dumb down the subject?
16:00:30  <Audigex> oddly enough, my friend at a less prestigious uni learns c++ - and I learn java at the "better" uni
16:00:33  <OwenS> I like a quote about MIT's CS course - half the class drops out when they introduce pointers :p
16:00:34  <Audigex> okay, hardly oxbridge
16:00:35  <Rubidium> because uni isn't there to learn you how to program
16:00:36  <Audigex> but still
16:00:46  <Rubidium> it's there to learn you the more abstract stuff of programming
16:00:49  <Audigex> it's there to take your money and give you a degree
16:01:11  <Audigex> but anyway, my point is that I can produce a pretty little program - and spout algorithms all day
16:01:16  <TrueBrain> OwenS: poor teacher .. our teacher needed 2 classes to explain the concept of pointers, and everyone took it .. even non-IT people
16:01:23  <TrueBrain> (they can't use them .. but they understand the concept :p)
16:01:30  <OwenS> lol
16:01:39  <Audigex> but putting it together into a proper project with svn, bug tracking and complex hierarchy
16:01:40  <Rubidium> wow... 2 classes about pointers?
16:01:43  <Audigex> isn't something i've done
16:01:49  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the concept and the like, yes :p
16:01:53  <OwenS> I think it's more a matter of MIT's course confusing half the students by diving head first into multi pointer indirection :p
16:01:59  <Rubidium> they just said: here's you problem, and oh... it has to be in C++
16:02:12  <Rubidium> which is how they 'teach' C++ here
16:02:20  <TrueBrain> that is not teaching :)
16:02:38  <TrueBrain> I was really really suprised by the course 'Introduction in Programming' (called differently, but okay)
16:02:40  <Rubidium> like in the real world: you have to write X and Y program, but we don't tell you everything you need to know
16:02:46  <OwenS> Hmm... Time to refactor AlterVerse's AST to get the code generation out of it :p
16:02:49  <TrueBrain> it was good .. even the most stupid people (read: girls) understood ...
16:03:11  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Did they then have to write a project in C afterwards? :p
16:03:15  <TrueBrain> (it was a class also given to astronomers)
16:03:18  <TrueBrain> yup
16:03:20  <TrueBrain> 3 in fact
16:03:28  <Rubidium> exams where you had to program on paper... that was very challenging for some people
16:03:29  <TrueBrain> and a written exam (where you had to write C++)
16:03:32  <TrueBrain> which was the sucky part :p
16:03:36  <Audigex> i can see the point of teaching it properly
16:03:46  <Audigex> i've just finished my first year (pretty shit, mostly a repeat of a-level)
16:03:51  <Audigex> but they basically hold your hand
16:03:59  <Audigex> "do this, then do this, make this method like this"
16:04:13  <Audigex> slowly turning into "here's a task, do it"
16:04:26  <TrueBrain> you don't help someone who starves to dead by giving him a fish. Learn him how to fish. Not by doing the fishing for him, but by telling him how.
16:04:34  <Audigex> i actually look forward to the day they dont even tell us what technologies to use
16:04:44  <OwenS> I know the last computing exam here had as the last question the requirement that you write a function "in a high level language of your choice"
16:04:53  <OwenS> I wondered if brainfuck was a high level language
16:04:54  <TrueBrain> BRAINFUCK!
16:04:56  <TrueBrain> :)
16:04:58  <Audigex> yes, but you've got to give them the fish while he's learning, or he'll die
16:05:03  <Audigex> haha
16:05:06  <Rubidium> OwenS: you should've used whitespace!
16:05:11  <OwenS> I was thinking that :p
16:05:14  <Audigex> i love whitespace
16:05:17  <TrueBrain> I would have done it
16:05:18  <Audigex> i'd be so tempted
16:05:19  <TrueBrain> really, I would
16:05:30  <TrueBrain> and I would have made sure I would get my grade for it :p
16:05:33  <OwenS> I decided against it on the basis I would need a bigger box. And more time :p
16:05:45  <TrueBrain> for whitespace? Come on :)
16:05:48  <TrueBrain> you just leave it mostly empty
16:05:51  <Audigex> i just hate the way our questions go "make an ecommerce site which does x, y and z" ... "oh, and use JSP and XML"
16:05:53  <TrueBrain> say the lineheight was 2px
16:06:03  <Audigex> fucking JSP
16:06:13  <OwenS> I once played with JSP. Can't say I enjoyed it
16:06:20  <Audigex> "make an ecommerce site which does x, y and z" = 20 minute task in php using cake
16:06:21  <Pygma> In a few months I'll be able to bitch about college too :P
16:06:22  <TrueBrain> it is JAVA!
16:06:33  <TrueBrain> awh, our Pygma is growing up
16:06:34  <Audigex> "using jsp and xml"..... suddenly i'm fucking about with xpath for 3 hours
16:06:36  <TrueBrain> they grow up so fast ...
16:06:59  <OwenS> Audigex: I'd have been SOO tempted to use Jython ;p
16:07:10  <Pygma> Yup, though not sure I classify as "our Pygma", not even sure I've ever really spoken in  here much before... Don't even play openTTD
16:07:22  <TrueBrain> LOL!
16:07:29  <Audigex> i was indeed tempted to use jython
16:07:29  <TrueBrain> then .. why are you here? (not to be rude or anything)
16:07:35  <Rubidium> Pygma: meet TrueBrain, he doesn't play OpenTTD either :)
16:07:36  <Audigex> but i thought they'd think i'm taking the piss
16:07:50  <OwenS> lol
16:07:50  <Pygma> I played it a while ago and joined because I had a question, but never really got into it
16:07:59  <TrueBrain> into the question?
16:08:03  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: don't be mean! :p
16:08:04  <Pygma> into the game
16:08:13  <TrueBrain> Pygma: I was joking :)
16:08:16  <Audigex> i dont play ottd much, i've spent the last 3 months in game trying to faithfully reproduce the UK network
16:08:22  <Audigex> but i havent put any trains on yet
16:08:38  <Audigex> and then i just realised that i used a non-trunk version of the game to do it, so i cant even show anyone :(
16:08:38  <TrueBrain> I can't remember the last time I played for more than 5 minutes ......
16:08:45  <TrueBrain> (which is mostly to test this or that ...)
16:08:48  <OwenS> Audigex: I suppose it wouldn't be much JSP if your file consisited of <% import my.jython.module; Pages.Something(request, response); %>
16:08:51  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: but when is the last time you played?
16:08:51  <Pygma> Ah I wasn't sure, I've confused some people before without knowing it by using phrases they'd never heard, so i'm never sure
16:09:05  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
16:09:10  <Audigex> OwenS: nope, i think that the idea was that it was all jsp
16:09:24  <Rubidium> hmm... copy paste patch from 129 KiB -> 190 KiB... what has gone wrong?
16:09:24  <OwenS> Doesn't JSP support other languages yet? :P
16:09:30  <TrueBrain> lineends
16:09:43  <TrueBrain> a wopping 60000 lines
16:09:46  <TrueBrain> and you have that difference :p
16:10:15  <Audigex> i doubt they even know any other languages
16:10:23  <Audigex> at least 2 of my lecturers graduated from the same uni
16:10:36  <Audigex> they learned java, so we have to learn java
16:10:37  <TrueBrain> that is fair;y normal :p
16:10:44  <Rubidium> ah... I see... they seem to have reverted some trunk fixes
16:10:46  <Pygma> 129KiB to 190KiB due to lineends would mean each line was on average 2 characters long
16:10:56  <TrueBrain> and as one of my teachers says: JAVA IS THE LANGUAGE OF THE ENGINERING WORLD
16:11:03  <TrueBrain> 90% of the job openings are JAVA related
16:11:16  <TrueBrain> on which I say that that is because nobody wants to take that job
16:11:21  <TrueBrain> and then I am asked never to speak again ..
16:11:27  <Pygma> I believe I'll be learning Java in first year, then C++ afterwards... I already know C++ though
16:11:30  <Audigex> java is an okay language for most tasks, but it's the right language for no tasks
16:11:51  <Audigex> it tries to be all things to all people
16:11:54  <TrueBrain> well said Audigex
16:12:04  <Rubidium> and he screwed up the diff by adding .orig files too
16:12:09  <Audigex> their big "plus" point is that it's cross platform
16:12:13  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: who? :p
16:12:15  <OwenS> Audigex: I have a feeling the head of my college's computing department knows no languages other than VBA and VB.Net.. and perhaps Prolog. AKA no languages anyone actually uses.
16:12:18  <Rubidium> (or almost everything that's automatically generrated)
16:12:26  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: KingNimby
16:12:33  <TrueBrain> ah .. don't care :p
16:12:40  * tokai still prefers the best assembly language mankind ever has implemented: C (the one without ++ or other funky chars as prefix or suffix :)
16:12:41  <TrueBrain> OwenS: teaching VB is just sad
16:12:53  <TrueBrain> tokai: C89?
16:12:55  <Audigex> i learned vb in college
16:12:59  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Not sad. TORTURE.
16:13:01  <Audigex> what a waste of 7 months
16:13:02  <tokai> TrueBrain: works for me:)
16:13:05  <TrueBrain> :p
16:13:13  <TrueBrain> VB is like a language you will never EVER use in any sane commercial product
16:13:15  *** Antigon [~Poly@] has joined #openttd
16:13:18  <Audigex> yup
16:13:28  <TrueBrain> I worked at a highschool, and they bought a product, that was advertised as the best int he market
16:13:30  <glx> it's useful in excel :)
16:13:32  <OwenS> Audigex: I agree on the waste of time. I'm not taking it in my second year :p
16:13:35  <glx> but that's all
16:13:37  <TrueBrain> I strongly suggested them not to buy .. as I have seen the demo: VB!
16:13:42  <TrueBrain> what a waste of money it was ... omg ...
16:13:57  <TrueBrain> glx: it is a nice SCRIPTING language, and it should be used as such :p
16:14:00  <Audigex> java just seems to have no advantages to me
16:14:04  <Audigex> the API has been over-made
16:14:08  <Audigex> it's too complex
16:14:14  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: apparently you can use it in INSANE commercial products
16:14:17  <Audigex> they'd be better off actually removing some of it
16:14:17  <TrueBrain> BUT THE WHOLE ENGINERING WORLD USES IT! (lol :p)
16:14:23  <Audigex> haha
16:14:33  <OwenS> I've only seen a couple of nice VB apps. One was an webapp and the other a Windows Form app. They did have some pretty good developers though
16:14:37  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yeah ... insane product it was ....
16:14:42  <Audigex> and why the fuck you can't compile direct to machine code is beyond me
16:14:50  <TrueBrain> that is basic
16:14:50  <Audigex> i can understand wanting to half-compile half-interpret in some situations
16:14:55  <TrueBrain> from QBASIC on, that was not possible
16:14:58  <OwenS> Though "pretty good" is relative when I could code faster than them in high school...
16:15:03  <Audigex> but 99% of the time i'd want a native binary
16:15:06  <Audigex> which java doesnt like
16:15:10  <Audigex> brb
16:15:12  <Audigex> need a wee wee
16:15:17  <TrueBrain> need?
16:15:18  <TrueBrain> ieuw
16:15:36  <tokai> what's a wee wee? a nap or a walk to the special place?
16:15:48  <Eddi|zuHause> is that remotely related to a Wii?
16:15:50  <TrueBrain> it doesn't sound like a nap to me :)
16:16:58  * tokai checked Google and knows now one more useless thing.
16:17:21  <Audigex> haha, you just googled wee wee?
16:17:31  <TrueBrain> "eliminate urine" <- LOL!!
16:17:40  <TrueBrain> I now see weird methods to do so :)
16:17:45  <tokai> Audigex: yes. One way to find out what it means, right? :)
16:17:58  <Audigex> well, it works
16:18:10  <TrueBrain> something to do with torches
16:18:10  <Audigex> i thought it was more common a word than that
16:18:21  <Audigex> truebrain - that's illuminate
16:18:32  <TrueBrain> eliminate
16:18:41  <Audigex> eliminate = get rid of
16:18:50  <TrueBrain> illuminate has to do with light
16:18:59  <Audigex> yeah
16:19:04  <Audigex> wait, now im confused
16:19:05  <TrueBrain> I meant holding a flamethrower over it to eliminate the urine
16:19:07  <OwenS> Anyone got any suggestions on the best way to separate code generation from my AST? Hmm...
16:19:10  <TrueBrain> or to get a knife and try to kill it
16:19:17  <Audigex> ah, i thought you meant a torch as in batteries and bulb
16:19:21  <TrueBrain> OwenS: rm -rf AST/*
16:19:27  <TrueBrain> no, as in a flame
16:19:28  <Audigex> and shine it into the stream of urine to light it up
16:19:38  <Audigex> it'd be like optical fibre
16:19:40  <OwenS> TrueBrain: ... I mean the best interface to implement to do so -.-
16:19:49  <TrueBrain> owh ...
16:19:50  <TrueBrain> my bad :p
16:19:54  <Audigex> "the network's down" "quick, piss into this router and shine a torch into it"
16:20:24  <TrueBrain> yeah ... but how do you eliminate urine?
16:20:26  <TrueBrain> really?
16:20:29  <TrueBrain> how?
16:20:40  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Antimatter!
16:20:47  <TrueBrain> geek
16:20:54  <TrueBrain> I am going to have some dinner
16:21:01  <Audigex> couldn't you just evaporate it?
16:21:04  <TrueBrain> you guys scare me
16:21:17  <Audigex> leaving you with the proteins and amino acids
16:21:19  <TrueBrain> Audigex: as I said: use a flamethrower
16:21:24  <OwenS> Audigex: And Urea
16:21:36  <Audigex> urea = amino acids and proteins?
16:21:48  <OwenS> i thought it was a compound of it's own/
16:22:03  <Audigex> A water-soluble organic compound, CO(NH2)2, formed by the metabolism of proteins and excreted in the urine
16:22:17  <Audigex> i think it's slightly more complex than amino acids and protein, but pretty much :)
16:22:25  <Audigex> the point being, osx sucks
16:22:40  <OwenS> Protiens are quire complex :p
16:22:45  <TrueBrain> no, OSX is nice .. not having the hardware sucks :p
16:23:32  <Audigex> i dont like the OS
16:23:40  <Audigex> used a mates macbook pro a few times, it just seems fiddly to me
16:23:54  <Audigex> i'd probably get used to it, but i'll stick with my w7 box for now
16:24:41  <OwenS> I'm going to question the legality of that Windows 7 box. Firstly because IIRC it's not out yet. Secondly because I know how stiffed Europe is being with MS' upgrade prices.
16:25:27  <Audigex> owens: release candidate
16:25:36  <Audigex> completely free, 100% legal
16:26:03  <Audigex> it's limited, so it'll stop working next march(?)
16:26:04  <OwenS> 100% timebombed
16:26:08  <Audigex> yeah
16:26:14  <Audigex> but i dont need it to last that long
16:26:29  <Audigex> my uni is part of the msdnaa (academic alliance)
16:26:35  <OwenS> I switched to Linux when I got pissed that MS were only going to OEM XP x64 with x64 processors
16:26:39  <Audigex> so i get all windows software apart from office for free
16:26:51  <OwenS> You can't use MSDN apps for anything other than software development. It's in the terms of use.
16:26:57  <Audigex> it's the academic alliance
16:27:05  <Audigex> so it's slightly different
16:27:16  <Audigex> i can use it for any non-profit use I like
16:27:46  <Audigex> so i'll just get w7 when it appears on the aa network share
16:27:54  <Audigex> and i even get to keep it after i finish uni :)
16:28:04  <glx> <OwenS> I switched to Linux when I got pissed that MS were only going to OEM XP x64 with x64 processors <-- that's logical for OEM, there have been too many abuses
16:28:19  <OwenS> glx: I mean no retail sales. You HAVE to buy it with a processor
16:28:22  <glx> like buy a mouse to get OEM windows
16:28:24  <Audigex>
16:28:44  <OwenS> glx: Which meant I would have to buy a new CPU with it... No thanks at all.
16:28:53  <Audigex> that is a bit shit :s
16:29:20  <Audigex> the academic alliance is awesome though
16:29:30  <Audigex> really upped my respect for microsoft
16:29:32  <OwenS> I went Linux cold turkey... And haven't looked back since.
16:30:04  <Audigex> i'd be a lot more willing to go linux if the wireless networking was up to par
16:30:23  <Rubidium> Audigex: in what way is the AA license awesome?
16:30:25  <Audigex> i've got three different dongles, one pci card and two laptops with built in wireless
16:30:34  <Audigex> rubidium - it's awesome for my needs
16:30:40  <OwenS> Linux comes broken... But once you do a little fixing, no work updating it (It's a click every now and again), no need for AV software, no need for anti spyware software. Once it works.... it just stays working
16:30:41  <Rubidium> like the most important thing is not included: Office
16:30:56  <Rubidium> okay, you get the plus pack for Windows 95, but who cares about that?
16:31:06  <Audigex> office is the only thing not included, and there's a seperate offer to get office for ?30
16:31:11  <OwenS> Rubidium: Last time I saw MSDN... You could get MS-DOS 6.22...
16:31:16  <Audigex> which i was happy to pay, since i dont like open-office
16:31:20  <Rubidium> OwenS: you still can!
16:31:22  <OwenS> Windows comes working but has a breaking itself fetish
16:31:30  <OwenS> Rubidium: And Win 3.11!
16:31:39  <Audigex> i've never had a problem with windows
16:31:43  <Audigex> well
16:31:45  <Audigex> recently
16:31:57  <Audigex> ME and 98 were iffy, but i moved onto xp 4 years ago and haven't had an issue since
16:32:20  <Audigex> that xp box is still running happily with only one reformat after 2 years
16:32:22  <OwenS> I personaly prefer not to waste a core on AV software :p
16:32:37  <Audigex> vista laptop is perfectly happy
16:32:41  <Audigex> and my windows 7 box flies
16:32:43  <Rubidium> glx: CF runs gcc 3.4.5 (mingw-vista special r3)
16:32:59  <Audigex> the hard drive is crap, but thats harldy their fault
16:33:20  <Audigex> i've only ever seen one bluescreen on vista
16:33:20  <glx> Rubidium: that's what I used before upgrading to gcc-4.4.0
16:33:34  <Audigex> and no non-overclock related on on w7
16:33:41  <OwenS> Audigex: Plus. once you learn BASH, you'll never want to go back :p
16:33:58  <glx> bash works on windoxs :)
16:34:08  <OwenS> glx: Yes. But Windows' CLI interface is horrid
16:34:15  <Audigex> i like GUIs
16:34:40  <OwenS> So do I. But the CLI is so much faster it's silly
16:35:01  <glx> it's not windows, it's PE :)
16:35:17  <Audigex> i do so little with the actual os though
16:35:29  <Audigex> i've got a well laid out hard drive, so any file is 3 clicks away
16:35:29  <glx> why did they imagine a flag to specify CLI or GUI would be useful
16:35:36  <Rubidium> oh, just a quick question: why does a clean Windows 2003 (x64) + MSVC 2008 (incl x64) take almost 20 GB?
16:35:54  <Rubidium> it scared the hell out of me
16:35:57  <Audigex> and the search bar on the vista/w7 start bar makes programs easy to get to
16:36:07  <OwenS> Vs a Ubuntu install (Kernel + Userspace + GCC + OpenOffice) at 1.2GB? :p
16:36:12  <Audigex> windows does take a ridiculous amount of hard drive space... in comparison to other os's
16:36:30  <OwenS> Audigex: On KDE, Alt+F2 and start typing :p
16:36:33  <Audigex> but hard drive space has massively outpaced windows bloat
16:36:50  <OwenS> RAM hasn't
16:37:00  <Audigex> owen - that means  you have to remember hard drive and folder names
16:37:13  <Audigex> i have 4gb in this box, cost me all of ?35
16:37:16  <OwenS> No it doesn't. It opens files, executables, and menu items
16:37:19  <Audigex> and windows is plenty happy enough with it
16:37:31  <Audigex> it still means you have to remember the file, executable or menu name
16:37:32  <glx> yeah vista uses 1GB when idling
16:37:51  <Rubidium> Audigex: not when you multiply the number of Windowses on you machine by a relatively large number
16:38:04  <OwenS> Audigex: It's like Vista's search
16:38:17  <Audigex> rubidium, i'm yet to use over 2.5gb
16:38:51  <OwenS> I'm currently at 1.8GB in use... Half of that is my Opera tab collection (It's huge); 400MB is SunStudio; rest is baseline KDE + Kopete + Konversation + Other apps
16:38:58  <Rubidium> like... you need 4+ versions of XP to test roughly all cases; the Korean Windows XP is significantly different from the rest
16:39:03  <Rubidium> so is the Chinese Windows XP
16:39:35  <Audigex> IMO linux does itself more damage than good
16:39:36  <glx> yeah we had fun with these VMs :)
16:39:47  <Audigex> i love when linux users bash windows for having so many versions
16:39:59  <Audigex> "vista basic, home basic, home premium, enterprise and ultimate... lol"
16:40:08  <Rubidium> Audigex: I'm not bashing them for that
16:40:10  <Audigex> then i look at how many distributions of linux there are
16:40:17  <Audigex> no, i changed subject slightly there
16:40:32  <Rubidium> I'm bashing them for having 3+ versions with THE SAME FRACKING NAME AND VERSION NUMBER that are NOT the same
16:40:47  <OwenS> And each taking ~5GB of HD space for less than Linux does in 1GB :p
16:40:48  <Audigex> bashworthy :)
16:40:59  <OwenS> Audigex: And you only need to know one word, really: Ubuntu. If you're a big business, two: Red Hat
16:41:04  <glx> with different behaviour regarding fonts and registry
16:41:23  <Audigex> owen - but the community are so determined to run a load of different distros
16:41:38  <Audigex> don't get me wrong, i'm not a windows fanboy-ubuntu hater - i just dont have a problem with windows
16:41:56  <Audigex> but why the hell does ubuntu need gnome and kde? and then some programs which don't work on both
16:42:03  <Audigex> plus xfce and a handful of others
16:42:23  <OwenS> Audigex: Because some people prefer KDE and some Gnome. IMO, KDE is better
16:42:24  <Rubidium> Audigex: 1) Ubuntu only has gnome, Kubuntu has KDE
16:42:36  *** Antigon [~Poly@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:42:51  <Audigex> rubidium, kubuntu = ubunti with kde instead of gnome, so for the purposes of my argument it's the same os with a different DE
16:42:53  <OwenS> XUbuntu is for constrained (Read: Old) systems. Mythbuntu is for home theater PCs
16:43:11  <Audigex> kubuntu is no different from ubuntu other than the desktop environment
16:43:16  <Audigex> xubuntu is fantastic
16:43:23  <OwenS> Audigex: Answer is that theres a ~50-50 split between KDE and Gnome people :p
16:43:25  <Audigex> it's on my sister's old laptop and is faster than xp ever was
16:43:40  <Audigex> owen, 50% of the people need to give up for the sake of the community
16:43:50  <Pygma> The cool 50% of people use KDE, the losers use GNOME
16:43:51  <Audigex> until there's some cohesion linux isn't going anywhere
16:43:52  <Rubidium> Audigex: really?
16:43:55  <glx> why, choice is good
16:44:01  <Rubidium> Audigex: so lets drop Firefox and Opera
16:44:17  <Rubidium> because MSIE has the most market share
16:44:30  <Audigex> not what i'm saying ;)
16:44:40  <Rubidium> ofcourse, that'd mean no new MSIE versions for many years to come until a new Firefox appears
16:44:45  <Audigex> although i get your point
16:45:10  <Audigex> but basically, gnome and kde are splitting an already small market share, and confusing those who'd like to swap onto linux
16:45:37  <Audigex> i'm pretty technical - but i had to spent a few hours researching, and even then i wouldn't want to choose between kde and gnome
16:45:43  <Audigex> it just wouldn't be informed enough
16:46:03  <Audigex> linux is for technical minded users and will stay niche until there's a concerted effort to make it appealing to the wider audience
16:46:07  <Rubidium> Audigex: and chosing between Windows and Linux is an "informed" choice for many people?
16:46:23  * Rubidium doesn't run either gnome or kde though
16:46:28  <Audigex> no, for most it's "windows is all that exists"
16:46:43  <Audigex> but the point is that it's a lot harder to persuade people to swap if there are decisions to make about it
16:46:49  <Audigex> "use linux, it's better than windows"
16:46:52  <Audigex> "but which linux?"
16:46:54  <Rubidium> reminds me of those people
16:46:55  <Audigex> "ubuntu"
16:46:59  <Audigex> "but which ubuntu"
16:47:12  <Audigex> i understand that some prefer kde or gnome - but neither are flawed
16:47:16  <OwenS> I always say "Use KUbuntu". Everyone I know who's switched has been happy with it :p
16:47:18  <Audigex> they're just strong in different ways
16:47:29  <Alberth> welcome to open source where *you* get to chose, instead of the manufacturer.
16:47:31  <Audigex> unlike ie vs firefox
16:47:39  <Rubidium>,139023769,339294810,00.htm <- they don't know windows
16:47:51  <Audigex> i just think that kda and gnome would be better off by combining their efforts
16:48:00  <Audigex> they're not so different that they couldn't be reconciled
16:48:08  <Audigex> okay, some compromises would have to be made
16:48:13  <OwenS> One is C and GTK. The other is C++ and QT
16:48:15  <Alberth> just the basic GUI toolkit :)
16:48:33  <Audigex> a lot of the time, though, they spend twice as long in development
16:48:38  <Audigex> putting the same basic features into each
16:49:00  <Alberth> so?
16:49:18  <Alberth> like us, they are volunteers, and they do what they like to do
16:49:24  <OwenS> GNOME tends to be full of people who develop for it because they're FSF fanatics. KDE tends to be full of people who are more pragmatic and are more concerned about the outcome.
16:49:27  <Rubidium> Audigex: doubling the number of developers seldomly double the amount of work that gets done
16:49:34  <Audigex> yes, but they're basically building it for themselves
16:49:40  <Audigex> i know, my argument is flawed
16:49:48  <OwenS> After alll... Gnome developed because the FSF got it's knickers in a knot about Qt licensing
16:49:50  <Rubidium> more developers => more/bigger discussions => more disagreement => less work that gets actually done
16:49:53  <Audigex> but geeks building their own versions isn't going to get anywhere
16:50:09  <Audigex> i know it'll never change
16:50:20  <Audigex> and thats why i think linux will forever be niche in the home market
16:50:26  <Alberth> I doubt most geeks care about market share
16:51:15  <glx> Audigex: beginners have no problems using linux (as they never used windows either)
16:51:24  <Rubidium> the 'major' problem with geeks not being in a company is that they don't cut corners as often
16:51:35  <Rubidium> that's what slows most stuff down a bit
16:51:40  <Audigex> glx - nobody begins with linux though, in the western world
16:51:52  <SmatZ> Audigex: my mother?
16:52:14  <Audigex> pah, always an answer
16:52:22  <Audigex> i need to be more specific
16:52:48  <Audigex> "the vast majority of people in the western world learn windows due to the monopoly in schools and high prevalence of windows in that environment"
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16:53:09  <SmatZ> ok :)
16:53:12  <OwenS> A German education authority recently went KDE IIRC
16:53:29  <Audigex> one authority
16:53:31  <Audigex> it's happening
16:53:34  <Audigex> but it's slow
16:53:40  <Audigex> and very little publicised
16:54:03  <Audigex> i do hope that linux takes off more
16:54:07  <Audigex> i think it'd be a big plus point
16:54:18  <Audigex> i've nothing against windows, but competition is always a good thing
16:54:23  <Rubidium> throwing lots of money in advertisement usually means that your product isn't good enough to be sold due to word-of-mouth
16:54:26  <Audigex> and apple just doesn't compete the same
16:54:33  <Rubidium> or whatever it's called
16:54:45  <Audigex> as soon as more governmental agencies etc realise how much cheaper linux is
16:54:55  <Audigex> and therefore how much more of their budget can be used on their own bonuses
16:54:57  <Audigex> it'll be away
16:55:14  <Rubidium> Audigex: only as soon as more governmental agencies look more in the future than 1 year...
16:55:22  <Audigex> yup
16:55:28  <Audigex> it'll happen, eventually
16:55:34  <Rubidium> cause 1 year TCO of Linux (if you have Windows) is massively more expensive
16:55:56  <Audigex> the migration would be the expensive bit
16:56:04  <Audigex> it'll start in schools
16:56:11  <Audigex> they could all start using linux now on dual-boot
16:56:13  <Audigex> and teach both
16:56:17  <Audigex> but why confuse the kids?
16:56:25  <glx> in school it's different, they usually have very old stuff
16:56:28  <Rubidium> gheheh, I already ran Linux in highschool 10 years ago
16:56:33  <SmatZ> do you think it would be confusing?
16:56:34  <glx> because there's no budget
16:56:47  <Audigex> i think it could be, because the teachers themselves won't know linux well enough
16:56:49  <Rubidium> and uni has been using dual boot since I started that
16:56:52  <Audigex> if the teacher themselves muddle through it
16:57:07  <Audigex> glx: my schools were better equipped than my college and uni are
16:57:15  <Eddi|zuHause> our school had exactly one linux computer
16:57:26  <SmatZ> Audigex: as if they knew Windows... (at least here... some pupils knew far more than teachers)
16:57:27  <Audigex> ours had none, but it had a lot which were capable
16:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't get along with it really well...
16:57:37  <Audigex> i knew more than my teachers
16:57:56  <Rubidium> SmatZ: at highschools some pupils usually know more than the admins
16:57:59  <Audigex> at one point, my detention for accessing the file share system was showing the techs how to stop someone else doing it
16:58:10  <Audigex> but that's still a handful of kids per year
16:58:16  <Audigex> i only left high school 3 years ago
16:58:20  <SmatZ> Rubidium: we had some geeky admin, so it wasn't the case :)
16:58:34  <Audigex> but still too high a percentage of my year had no it skills
16:58:35  <glx> in middle school we had MO5 network
16:58:36  <Audigex> or nothing of value
16:59:21  <Eddi|zuHause> it was fun watching three teachers diagnose the BNC network here ;)
16:59:31  <glx> missing terminator ?
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17:00:00  <Eddi|zuHause> not really sure anymore... probably more like broken cable or network card
17:00:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it was not the easiest network ;)
17:00:32  <Eddi|zuHause> we had three computer cabinets and a handful of lone computers spread over the building
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17:00:46  <glx> yeah one little thing breaks all the network
17:00:47  * Rubidium remembers BNC network cards that could become a terminator using some software setting... those were fun!
17:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it was kind of stretching the distance limits as well...
17:01:30  <glx> SCSI chains were nice too
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17:02:32  <Eddi|zuHause> our "networking" semester kind of consisted of us chatting with netmeeting ;)
17:07:03  <SmatZ> fonsinchen: there seems to be a problem with the smallmap-zoom patch, when the window is opened, the "+" button isn't greyed out, and the button next to it is pressed for few ticks
17:08:48  *** Terkhen [] has joined #openttd
17:10:58  <fonsinchen> oh
17:11:22  <fonsinchen> well, probably something isn't properly initialized
17:11:40  <fonsinchen> I'll have a look at it.
17:12:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17168 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: apply coding style to if and while statements
17:14:09  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:14:16  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
17:14:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17169 /trunk/src/ (misc/crc32.hpp network/core/host.cpp npf.cpp widget.cpp): -Codechange: apply coding style to some for statements
17:14:20  <Audigex> is the smallmap being updated?
17:14:33  <Audigex> i thought i got a sniff of someone working on it, but i've forgotten what they were doing
17:15:37  <SmatZ> :)
17:15:48  <fonsinchen> There is a smallmap zooming patch.
17:15:51  <fonsinchen> Actually 3
17:16:03  <Audigex> making it actually useful again?
17:16:09  <SmatZ> :-p
17:16:10  <fonsinchen> I hope so.
17:17:20  *** ^Spike^ [] has joined #openttd
17:17:22  <_ln>
17:17:30  <Audigex> two questions
17:17:42  <Audigex> what files are the advanced settings window and the cheat window found in
17:17:46  <Audigex> well, one question - two answers
17:17:53  <SmatZ> yes
17:17:53  <Audigex> or at least, what sort of direction should i be looking?
17:18:02  <SmatZ> _gui.cpp
17:18:05  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: hey. i wanted to say that.
17:18:08  <Rubidium> /trunk/src/
17:18:21  <Audigex> rubidium, i got that much ;)
17:18:24  <Audigex> thanks smatz
17:18:27  <SmatZ> :)
17:19:11  <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: what are you trying to say there?
17:20:39  *** OwenS [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:21:00  *** OwenS [] has joined #openttd
17:21:10  <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: i was trying to contribute to the BNC discussion by showing another way of connecting coaxial ethernet.
17:21:48  <Eddi|zuHause> then why don't you say that?
17:22:24  *** ^Spike^ is now known as ^spike^
17:23:06  <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: the discussing with pure urls principle.
17:23:19  *** bb10 [] has joined #openttd
17:23:41  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:23:46  <fonsinchen> smatz, which button is pressed for a few ticks?
17:24:02  <fonsinchen> The "center" or the "zoom out" one?
17:24:10  <SmatZ> the button next to "zoom in"
17:24:10  <fonsinchen> (it doesn't happen here)
17:24:31  <fonsinchen> vertically or horizontically next
17:24:42  <SmatZ> horizontally
17:24:49  <SmatZ> I would say "zoom out" else :)
17:24:59  <SmatZ> the one with the "minimap" icon
17:25:10  <SmatZ> SM_WIDGET_CONTOUR I htink
17:26:16  <SmatZ> fonsinchen: no, actually SM_WIDGET_CENTERMAP
17:27:18  *** ^spike^ is now known as ^Spike^
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17:28:34  <OwenS> Hmm... Anyone know a tool to convert the encoding of file names?
17:28:59  <SmatZ> fonsinchen: actually, it would be nice if only drawing was done in OnPaint()... the window system is going this direction
17:29:06  <SmatZ> but that can be done later
17:29:20  <OwenS> It appears I have a bunch of file names encoded in SHIFT-JIS -_-
17:29:31  <SmatZ> (eg. not disabling/enabling widgets in OnPaint() and such)
17:32:53  <Rubidium> OwenS: iconv?
17:33:11  <OwenS> Doesn't that just do contents?
17:33:17  <_ln> iconv is... not the optimal solution if there's more than a few files.
17:33:46  <Rubidium> can you just dump the filename and run iconv over that?
17:33:54  <_ln> OwenS: use convmv instead.
17:33:56  <SmatZ> OwenS: share that directory via samba and set the encoding there?
17:34:17  <OwenS> SmatZ: I don't fancy transfering ~2GB of stuff over 100mbit ethernet
17:34:26  <OwenS> I've found convmv and am installing it =)
17:34:33  <Rubidium> why? that's like 20 seconds?
17:34:47  <Rubidium> uhm... 200 seconds ;)
17:34:52  <Rubidium> a mere 3 minutes
17:35:20  <SmatZ> :)
17:35:27  <SmatZ> you could copy it locally
17:35:35  <Rubidium> that's way faster than a OSX compile of OpenTTD
17:37:08  <glx> or an MSVC release build of openttd
17:37:36  <_ln> "the great wall of china took less time to build than OpenTTD on OS X"
17:38:19  <Rubidium> MSVC release build is considerably faster than OSX compiles
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17:39:40  <Lakie> Isn't the OSX compiler gcc (or a cross compile through mingw) or do they use a more speciallized one?
17:39:56  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
17:40:25  <_ln> it's Apple's edition of gcc.
17:40:31  <Lakie> Ah.
17:40:57  <_ln> which, btw, had support for precompiled headers way before the vanilla gcc did.
17:41:03  <OwenS> Hmm
17:41:08  <OwenS> The files are UTF-8
17:41:16  <OwenS> The issue is apparently somewhere on the Samba pipe between machines
17:41:41  <Sacro> hmm
17:42:42  <OwenS> As in... my machine reports junk
17:43:33  *** reldred1 [~reldred@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:44:54  <OwenS> Note to self: Stop trying to use pfexec on Linux
17:45:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17170 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
17:45:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 91 changes by Tvel
17:45:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by Kwokfu
17:45:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 76 changes by fumantsu
17:45:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 48 changes by pinochioxy
17:46:58  *** Elton02612 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:49:23  <fonsinchen> smatz,
17:49:44  <fonsinchen> fixes the problem with depressed center map and non-invalidated "+"
17:50:04  <fonsinchen> but I'll post a new version of the patch, too - tomorrow
17:51:21  <OwenS> whoo!
17:51:23  <OwenS> Got it!
17:51:49  <OwenS> For those interested: On all machines set "dos charset=UTF-8", then in /etc/fstab set iocharset=utf8
17:52:52  <TrueBrain> no thank you
17:55:12  <TinoDidriksen> OwenS, Samba usually handles that transparently. Must have an interesting setup to run into that problem.
17:55:33  <TrueBrain> My Samba (default setup) can't send any UTF-8 filename
17:55:39  <TrueBrain> becomes 8.0 filename ..
17:55:41  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
17:56:00  <OwenS> TinoDidriksen: It defaulted to CP437 IIRC on both my Ubuntu and Solaris boxes for the server charset, and I don't know what for the client charset
17:56:01  <TrueBrain> steps to reproduce: install Gentoo && emerge -av samba
17:56:22  <Audigex> i really want to start a new distributed computing project
17:56:26  <OwenS> Steps to reproduce: apt-get install samba (Ubuntu) or pkg install SUNWsamba (Solaris) :p
17:56:26  <Audigex> shakespeare @ home
17:56:42  <TrueBrain> so I think TinoDidriksen doesn't has his facts straight :)
17:56:47  <OwenS> This doesn't involve virtual monkeys? :P
17:56:54  <Audigex> thats the idea
17:56:54  <TrueBrain> Audigex: DO IT! :)
17:57:06  <TinoDidriksen> I just know I've never had to fiddle with filename encoding between Windows and Linux over Samba...
17:57:11  <Audigex> each client just randomly produces letters
17:57:19  <Audigex> and compares it to shakespeare
17:57:31  <TrueBrain> TinoDidriksen: the fact that you didn't isn't any argument why in general it should work or that when it doesn't work it shoudl give an interesting setup :p
17:57:35  <Audigex> first we'll try with "whole words"
17:57:38  <Audigex> then paragraphs
17:57:41  <Audigex> then pages
17:57:45  <OwenS> TinoDidriksen: Do you regularly exchange non-ASCII/Non-ISO-8859(?) characters?
17:57:49  <Audigex> then individual plays
17:57:49  <TrueBrain> Audigex: and the use is ...? :)
17:57:55  <Audigex> and finally the entire works of shakespeare
17:58:12  <OwenS> Audigex: Then record the PRNG parameters required? :p
17:58:33  <Audigex> to prove whether or not a million monkeys on a million typewriters for a million  years could eventually produce the works of shakespeare
17:58:42  <Audigex> although i think an average quad core is faster than a monkey
17:58:48  <Audigex> so we won't need a million yeasr
17:58:50  <Audigex> *years
17:58:56  <OwenS> I think it's faster than ~1000 monkeys. per core.
17:58:59  <Audigex> we just need to work out the average keystroke rate of a monkey
17:59:02  <TrueBrain> hmm ... well, if you random pick letters you might be able to
17:59:05  <Audigex> and adjust from it
17:59:05  <TrueBrain> but else ...
17:59:09  <OwenS> (Assuming a computationaly expensive RNG)
17:59:11  <TrueBrain> how long is a work of shakespeare?
17:59:18  <Audigex> the complete works is quite long
17:59:27  <Audigex> thats the idea
17:59:34  <TrueBrain> given we only use the 26 letters on the keyboard
17:59:35  <Audigex> i want to find out how many years and how many monkeys it would take
17:59:38  <TrueBrain> and say ... 10000 letters?
17:59:40  <TrueBrain> gives
17:59:42  <Audigex> truebraini
17:59:44  <TrueBrain> @calc pow(26,10000)
17:59:45  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
17:59:47  <TrueBrain> :p
17:59:52  <Audigex> TrueBrain: its not quite
18:00:05  <Audigex> alphanumeric
18:00:08  <Audigex> and they can't just type the words
18:00:11  <Audigex> we need punctuation
18:00:15  <Audigex> etc
18:00:17  <TrueBrain> only increases the number :)
18:00:20  <Audigex> yup
18:00:20  <TrueBrain> so .. 36 chars?
18:00:21  <TrueBrain> 46?
18:00:24  <TrueBrain> @calc pow(46,10000)
18:00:24  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
18:00:28  <TrueBrain> LOL :p
18:00:28  <Audigex> i think we can ignore capitalisation
18:00:36  <TrueBrain> @calc pow(46,1000)
18:00:36  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
18:00:41  <TrueBrain> @calc pow(46,100)
18:00:41  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 18870489598153477164312816049050162012684798868211435340739238604627801371313887236891121749334612527280219243510161776285138269791231345576101875565890940589320437760
18:00:48  <Audigex> okay, we may need to go 64bit on the client :(
18:01:00  <TrueBrain> euhm .. try .. bigger?
18:01:16  <TrueBrain> but okay, a fast computer can handle .. what ... 10^9 chars per second?
18:01:18  <Audigex> it's okay, we can just split the calculations
18:01:32  <Audigex> and how fast can a monkey type?
18:01:34  <TrueBrain> hell, give it 10^50 for all I care :p
18:01:41  <Audigex> it can't be more than about 3 keys/second
18:01:43  <TrueBrain> well .. imagine the computer time you need :p
18:01:52  <xmakina> @calc pow(-1,-1)
18:01:52  <DorpsGek> xmakina: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
18:01:53  <xmakina> ?
18:02:00  <TrueBrain> 10^308 .....
18:02:01  <Audigex> so really we need one computer for every 3^9 monkeys
18:02:04  <Audigex> xmakina - i
18:02:10  <TrueBrain> we need 10^250 computers to finish in 1 second :p
18:02:18  <Audigex> square root of minus 1 = imaginary number
18:02:33  <TrueBrain> -1 is not the square root ..
18:02:39  <TrueBrain> that is 0.5
18:02:39  <Audigex> well one computer can do 3trillion monkeys
18:02:50  <Audigex> if your numbers are right
18:03:00  <Audigex> but it's not just about producing the random numbers
18:03:04  <TrueBrain> no .. I am showing you that all the computers in the world won't finish before the end of the earth
18:03:07  <Audigex> the hard part is comparing it to the works of shakespeare
18:03:21  <Audigex> maybe not now, but computers can get faster
18:03:34  <TrueBrain> euh ... a factor 10^200 faster?
18:03:45  <Audigex> a million monkeys, a million years
18:03:57  <TrueBrain> wild ideas, okay .. but this just isn't real :p
18:03:58  <OwenS> @calc log2(10^200)*1.5
18:03:58  <DorpsGek> OwenS: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
18:04:08  <OwenS> @calc log(2, 10^200)*1.5
18:04:08  <DorpsGek> OwenS: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
18:04:14  <Audigex> that's only 3^x10^12 years worth
18:04:21  <TrueBrain> OwenS: 10^200 = pow(10, 200)
18:04:27  <OwenS> @calc log(10^200)/log(2)*1.5
18:04:27  <DorpsGek> OwenS: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
18:04:34  <OwenS> @calc log(pow(10, 200))/log(2)*1.5
18:04:34  <DorpsGek> OwenS: 996.578428466
18:04:38  <Audigex> @calc 3x10^12
18:04:38  <DorpsGek> Audigex: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
18:04:44  <OwenS> Audigex: 996 years. Optimistically.
18:04:44  <Audigex> pah
18:04:54  <TrueBrain> OwenS: for what?
18:05:00  <TrueBrain> oh, the magnitude faster
18:05:02  <TrueBrain> haha :)
18:05:06  <OwenS> Computers to get 10^200 faster according to moores law
18:05:10  <TrueBrain> so Audigex, in 1000 years you can try to suggest your idea :p
18:05:18  <TrueBrain> still requires 10^40 computers or so :p
18:05:24  <Audigex> pah
18:05:35  <OwenS> This is assuming Moore's Law will still be working. Unlikely. I imagine physical constraints bottoming out before then
18:05:41  <TrueBrain> there is a reason why we say: a password of more than 12 chars is 'brute-force' safe :p
18:05:50  <TrueBrain> OwenS: they already did
18:05:52  <TrueBrain> power-wall
18:05:54  <TrueBrain> memory-wall
18:06:02  <TrueBrain> heat-wall
18:06:07  <Audigex> and we're hitting the limits of silicone
18:06:12  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Moore's Law for semiconductors in general is still there
18:06:19  <OwenS> Audigex: Silicon! Silicone is sealent stuff :p
18:06:23  <TrueBrain> 'in general' .. :p
18:06:25  <Audigex> oh piss off xD
18:06:27  <TrueBrain> but okay :)
18:06:28  <OwenS> Your search may have to go nontraditional. Can I suggest Quantum computing, and for your sort algortihm, the Quantum Bogosort
18:06:36  <Audigex> right
18:06:38  *** Antigon [~Poly@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:06:40  <Audigex> i'd better hit wikipedia
18:06:44  <TrueBrain> with what?
18:06:49  <Audigex> an axe
18:06:54  <TrueBrain> sounds like a good plan :)
18:07:05  <Audigex> well, i'll start on that later
18:07:05  <OwenS> Quantum Bogosort = O(1) operation, consuming N universes where N is the number of possibilities :p
18:07:06  <TrueBrain> either way, I think it is safe to say no monkey will ever type a work of shakespeare :p
18:07:19  <Audigex> for now, i'm going to make it so that the date change cheat can be input manually
18:07:27  <Audigex> truebrain - that's kinda the point
18:07:32  <Audigex> it's a philosophical question
18:07:37  <Audigex> or perhaps mathematic
18:07:40  <TrueBrain> no, it is a mathematical one
18:07:42  <TrueBrain> I just showed you why
18:07:52  <OwenS> I do like the "Make Universe"/"Destroy Universe" operations of quantum computers :p
18:07:55  <Audigex> it's one of those things we'd never find out
18:08:03  <TrueBrain> 10^9 monkeys for 10^9 years ... is not that big of a solution space :)
18:08:24  <TrueBrain> @calc 365.25 * 24 * 60 * 60
18:08:24  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 31557600
18:08:26  <Audigex> 10^9?
18:08:35  <Audigex> a million monkeys = 10^6
18:08:36  <TrueBrain> oh, milion, even less
18:08:48  <Audigex> yup
18:08:54  <TrueBrain> so 10^12 * (32 * 10^12)
18:09:16  <Audigex> although the actual thing is one monkey for infinate time
18:09:18  <Audigex>
18:09:25  <Audigex> given infinate time
18:09:33  <Audigex> it would type out the entire volume
18:09:38  <TrueBrain> infinite time is something COMPLETELY different :)
18:09:42  *** Zahl_ [] has joined #openttd
18:09:46  <Audigex> yeah, i was just going for the smaller one
18:09:56  <Audigex> don't worry, i'm not seriously contemplating doing it
18:10:01  <TrueBrain> yeah .. and with that you present a completely different question :)
18:10:07  <Audigex> yup
18:10:09  <TrueBrain> you can't try an infinite problem with finite solution
18:10:13  <TrueBrain> finite is NOT a subset of infinite
18:10:21  <TrueBrain> (well .. not in all cases anyway :p)
18:10:35  <Audigex> it was a quick joke which somehow turned into a quarter of an hour of intense discussion
18:10:42  <TrueBrain> :p
18:10:49  <TrueBrain> you had to learn not to joke in this channel :)
18:10:57  <Audigex> :)
18:11:12  <Audigex> "no ma'am, we at the fbi do not have a sense of humour we are aware of, may we come in?"
18:11:39  <OwenS> Infinity is not a real number :p
18:12:10  <Audigex> Today, popular interest in the typing monkeys is sustained by numerous appearances in literature, television, radio, music, and the Internet. In 2003, an experiment was performed with six Celebes Crested Macaques, but their literary contribution was five pages consisting largely of the letter 'S'.
18:12:13  <Audigex> haha
18:12:15  <TrueBrain> OwenS: maybe it is complex?
18:13:31  <OwenS> TrueBrain: It's not complex; it's just unreal :p
18:15:48  *** Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:15:48  *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
18:23:34  <TrueBrain> Audigex: I always found such theorem really silly .. I mean .. of course in infinite time everytime happens
18:23:39  <TrueBrain> what else is the term 'infinite' good for?
18:23:55  <TrueBrain> but okay .. there is a reason I don't study math :p
18:24:18  <Audigex> people debunk it on the idea that it wouldn't happen before the universe ended
18:24:28  <Audigex> but firstly, there's no guarantee that the universe will end
18:24:31  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
18:24:36  <TrueBrain> that for sure is a hard fact
18:24:40  <Audigex> and secondly, it's a theory - so blocking it with other theories isn't a proof
18:24:51  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Given infinite time the infinitely improbable can happen. Or, a very long time after the end of the universe will be another big bang :p
18:24:54  <TrueBrain> but before the end of the universe .. now about that you can talk, yes
18:25:06  <Audigex> what do you decide as being the end of the universe?
18:25:08  <TrueBrain> OwenS: why a very long time? Can be instant.
18:25:16  <Audigex> the heat death?
18:25:20  <TrueBrain> Audigex: at least you left the realm of infinite
18:25:23  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Could be, but thats highly improbable
18:25:25  <pavel1269> new game, havent played with grfs and ... breakdowns off, and my train have broken! :-O
18:25:26  <TrueBrain> we most likely die of cold, but okay :)
18:25:33  <OwenS> And I'm refering to decomposition of atoms :p
18:25:42  <Audigex> aaah, but this monkey is clearly invincible
18:25:46  <TrueBrain> OwenS: we have absolutely NO idea what happens 'at the end of the universe', so talking about 'highly' impossible is silly, to say the least :p
18:26:09  <Audigex> i go with the theory that the monkey can live until the rest of the universe ends
18:26:13  <Audigex> so therefore, surely it can survive that
18:26:14  <OwenS> TrueBrain: As I said, I'm taking the end of the universe to be when everything decays into photons
18:26:22  <TrueBrain> but as the big bang took several nanoseconds, why would after a big crunch not happen a big bang in the same time-span? :p
18:26:22  <OwenS> Give it about a gogol years
18:26:23  <Audigex> this monkey isn't made of photons
18:26:39  <Audigex> because the big bang was created by a huge amount of energy
18:26:53  <Audigex> which turned into mass
18:27:08  <OwenS> Incidentally, in all this matter, where did the antimatter go?
18:27:14  <Audigex> ran away
18:27:18  <pavel1269> where the all energy was created? :-)
18:27:27  <TrueBrain> OwenS: ah, you mean the other possibility, where everything flaots and floats .. fair enough :p
18:27:33  <Audigex> assuming the monkey, since it hasnt got bored and left the typewriter nor died in the meantime, is invincible
18:27:34  *** Antigon [~Poly@] has joined #openttd
18:27:45  <Audigex> it will eventually write the complete works
18:27:45  <TrueBrain> OwenS: antimatter and matter co-exists ... slightly more matter .. result is almost no antimatter .. logic, not? :p
18:27:47  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Yeah, the "boring everything just decays" end of the universe which will happen
18:27:58  <TrueBrain> OwenS: LOL! Which will happen .. oh please
18:27:58  <fonsinchen> Hehe, there's funny things you can do with gitweb ...
18:28:00  <TrueBrain> like you looked there :p
18:28:11  <OwenS> TrueBrain: It will according to currently accepted theories :p
18:28:13  <fonsinchen> smatz, this is the corrected patch:;a=commitdiff;h=ad32dc4f8bf1ff0f0cce55d32f3ba783333348f8;hp=b97204739a73103cfbc70e98d85a0398bbc28963#patch1
18:28:16  <TrueBrain> OwenS: euh .. no
18:28:35  <TrueBrain> 'currently accepted theories' is VERY dangerous to use ....
18:28:36  <OwenS> TrueBrain: But all methods of producing one produce the other in equal quantities
18:28:50  <frosch123> hmm, pm from pm :p
18:29:09  <Rubidium> in the pm
18:29:17  <TrueBrain> currently our best 'guess' is that the spaace is flat (1.002 I believe?)
18:29:38  <TrueBrain> but on the other side we currently measure stuff that shouldn't be happening ...
18:29:58  <TrueBrain> galaxies at high redshift that are not as red as they should be ... shit like that :p
18:30:11  <TrueBrain> so never ever say about things on that scale: which will happen
18:30:18  <TrueBrain> like saying blackholes are proven to exist .. pff
18:30:29  <OwenS> I'm actually talking about things on a quantum theory scale :p
18:30:30  <TrueBrain> Audigex: 1 monkey? or 10^6 monkeys?
18:30:46  <TrueBrain> the scale doesn't matter when you talk about the end of the universe, now does it?
18:30:51  <Audigex> the commonly given situation is 1million monkeys
18:31:09  <TrueBrain> Audigex: the time of the universe ... invincible .. hmm ...
18:31:13  <Audigex> but the actual theory is one monkey, infinate time (truly infinate time unlimited by theories)
18:31:22  <Audigex> the fact is that it's hypothetical
18:31:30  <TrueBrain> well, infinite time is simple: it will write every work ever written
18:31:36  <Audigex> yup
18:31:43  <OwenS> In amongst an infinite quantity of garbage
18:31:57  <TrueBrain> sure, but that is completele besides the point
18:32:01  <TrueBrain> I write genetic programs
18:32:06  <TrueBrain> they produce 99% of the time garbage
18:32:14  <TrueBrain> the 1% they do produce correct results, they amaze me every time
18:33:08  <TrueBrain> but I dunno .. universe-length-time .. I don't think there is enough time to be 100% sure a work of shakespeare is written .. hmm .. interesting question ..
18:33:29  <TrueBrain> now come back in 4 million years and I will tell you about a machine I will built which will give you to question to my answer
18:33:35  *** goodger [] has joined #openttd
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18:34:28  <pavel1269> okay, deal :-)
18:34:47  <abbmaz> excuse me, I'm having a silly problem with self-compiled ottd on win32
18:34:56  <OwenS> TrueBrain: But then we'll need a bigger machine to decipher the answer! Which 6 billion years into it's run will be paved over for a hyperspace bypass!
18:34:57  <pavel1269> whats the problem?
18:35:13  <TrueBrain> OwenS: you clearly missed a step in the joke, but sure
18:35:13  <abbmaz> it can't find any language packs although they are located in the lang/ folder after the .exe
18:35:27  <TrueBrain> abbmaz: did you also compile the language files?
18:35:33  <TrueBrain> as they need to be of the same version as your executable
18:35:40  <abbmaz> I'm not sure if I did
18:35:56  <pavel1269> you have compiled .exe and copied it?
18:35:56  <TrueBrain> Audigex: I would hypotisise that it won't write a work
18:36:13  <Audigex> prove it!
18:36:21  <Audigex> erm
18:36:41  <abbmaz> yea, the VC++ produced quite a lot of files, but only the .exe seemed relevant. I did follow the howto on wiki
18:36:51  <TrueBrain> for that we need an estimate of the lifetime of the universe .. which is the trickest part I guess :p
18:37:04  <TrueBrain> abbmaz: execute the .exe in the bin/ file of your source directory
18:37:14  <TrueBrain> there all files are stored needed to execute that executable
18:38:23  <abbmaz> oh, that seems sensible
18:38:29  <pavel1269> does it run?
18:38:43  <abbmaz> yea it does, but it whines about the language packs
18:39:23  <abbmaz> oh, now it seems to work :) when running from the bin/ folder
18:39:29  <pavel1269> TrueBrain: btw, my problem is back, my trains do broke, with breakdowns off :-P .... i am using NARS, is that a feature? :-)
18:39:52  <abbmaz> (I had never before compiled anything real software with Vc++)
18:40:28  *** ^Spike^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:40:31  <abbmaz> thank you, now it flows nicely :)
18:41:13  *** ^Spike^ [] has joined #openttd
18:41:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17171 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Doc: Additions and corrections of various doxygen strings.
18:41:42  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: don't ask me :)
18:41:47  <TrueBrain> abbmaz: enjoy
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18:42:25  <TrueBrain> Audigex: universe is now 15 * 10^9 years old .. (on estimate) ... if we do crazy, and state it lives 1000 times longer than it is now old
18:42:54  <Audigex> i think i've just found how to distract truebrain for an infinate time
18:43:07  <Audigex> give him a maths theory to ponder :)
18:43:50  <TrueBrain> 2 * 10^14 years .. 3 * 10^20 seconds ..
18:44:35  <TrueBrain> 2 * 10^14 years .. 6 * 10^21 seconds ..
18:44:42  <TrueBrain> (1 year = pi * 10^7 seconds)
18:44:52  <pavel1269> lol pi ?! again ?!
18:44:54  <pavel1269> delete ...
18:45:10  <TrueBrain> given 10^6 monkeys .. doesn't give that big of a solution space
18:45:15  <TrueBrain> so Audigex, it is plausible it won't happen
18:45:44  <TrueBrain> 6 * 10^27 units in solution space ... what does that give ..
18:45:49  <Audigex> aah, you're still assuming that this monkey is dependant on the existance of planets, atmospheres etc
18:45:55  <Audigex> this isn't a universal monkey
18:45:58  <Audigex> it's a theoretical monkey
18:46:06  <TrueBrain> Audigex: no, I took an extreme for the lifetime of the universe :p
18:46:14  <TrueBrain> it lives VERY long compared to what is to be expected
18:46:17  <Audigex> what is the end of the universe?
18:46:22  <TrueBrain> as I said: when we talk infinite, we are done talking
18:46:26  <Audigex> yup
18:46:27  <TrueBrain> else, we need to put an end to it :p
18:46:30  <Audigex> and i'm talking infinate
18:46:33  <Audigex> this is an infinate monkey
18:46:36  <TrueBrain> then we are done talking :)
18:46:37  <Audigex> so it will write the works
18:46:46  <TrueBrain> but you say one time infinite, the other time a very long time
18:46:48  <Audigex> ... in theory
18:46:48  <TrueBrain> so you should pick one
18:46:52  <Audigex> i said infinate
18:46:56  *** Dred_furst [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:46:56  <Audigex> i've never said a very long time
18:47:11  <Audigex> the only other thing i said was "for a million years"
18:47:15  <Audigex> which is highly improbabl
18:47:18  <Audigex> *improbable
18:47:22  <TrueBrain> [20:26] <Audigex> i go with the theory that the monkey can live until the rest of the universe ends <- == finite
18:47:27  <pavel1269> where are you guys leading to?
18:47:34  <Audigex> *past the end of the universe
18:47:37  <Audigex> pavel - ignore us
18:47:42  <TrueBrain> yeah ... now start correcting your claims, sure sure
18:47:47  <Audigex> just a comment earlier that's gotten way out of hand
18:48:00  <Rubidium> Audigex: should only pavel ignore you?
18:48:15  <TrueBrain> either way, when you leave the space of infinite, and hit the 'reality' ... it is highly unlikely
18:48:19  <Audigex> i reserve the right to amend my bullshit ex post facto
18:48:31  <Audigex> rubidium, you can't ignore it
18:48:39  <TrueBrain> hmm .. inspiring thought :)
18:48:40  <Audigex> you participated earlier, so you're honour bound to continue
18:48:41  <TrueBrain> tnx Audigex ;)
18:48:51  <Rubidium> I can't?
18:48:58  *** Rubidium [] has left #openttd [oh yes I can!]
18:48:58  <pavel1269> i can :-P
18:49:08  <Audigex> watch, he'll come back and start talking about it
18:49:17  <pavel1269> well, not so sure
18:49:18  <TrueBrain> Audigex: then you don't know Rubidium :)
18:49:20  <Audigex> he'll be like "oh, i just thought... what if there were 8 monkeys"
18:49:28  <Audigex> oh christ, I'm actually going to stop joking
18:49:35  <TrueBrain> well, with 8 monkeys
18:49:36  <TrueBrain> hmm ..
18:49:42  <Audigex> noooo
18:49:44  <Audigex> stop
18:49:46  <Audigex> for the love of god
18:49:47  <TrueBrain> that works when they lie on their side
18:49:53  <TrueBrain> lie = lay
18:50:01  <TrueBrain> (think about thatone :p)
18:50:18  <TrueBrain> You are truly Internet addicted when you rotate your head 90 degrees to smile
18:51:13  <Audigex> how about if there were infinate monkeys
18:51:18  <Audigex> surely they'd solve it infinately?
18:51:25  <Audigex> *instantely
18:51:26  <Audigex> well, both
18:51:31  <pavel1269> i think they have same chances as 1 monkey ... i say
18:51:34  <Audigex> okay, seriously - i'm stopping
18:51:41  <TrueBrain> Audigex: infinite, so instant, yes :)
18:51:43  <Audigex> pavel - you misunderstand infinate then
18:51:52  <Audigex> although of course, you can't have infinate monkeys
18:51:57  <pavel1269> infinate ... more than i can ever type? :P
18:51:59  <Audigex> because there's a finite amount of matter
18:52:02  <TrueBrain> they can stay in the infinite hotel!
18:52:15  <Audigex> i always hated that damned hotel
18:52:20  <TrueBrain> it is a beauty
18:52:38  <pavel1269> giving 1 monkey infinate time is for me same as giving infinate monkeys infinate time ...
18:52:51  <Audigex> pavel, i was originaly giving one monkey infinate time
18:52:58  <pavel1269> :D
18:52:59  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: in fact, it is the same as giving infinite monkeys 1 second
18:53:04  <Audigex> but then truebrain started whining about how the universe isn't infinate
18:53:05  <pavel1269> yeah
18:53:19  <TrueBrain> btw, to both, 'infinate' is no word
18:53:25  <pavel1269> infinite?
18:53:25  <Audigex> infinite
18:53:27  <pavel1269> :-)
18:53:28  <Audigex> yup
18:53:30  <Audigex> i always do that
18:53:37  <TrueBrain> always, but not now
18:53:39  <pavel1269> i odnt know, i jsut typed, what you typed :P
18:53:40  <TrueBrain> weird definition of always :p
18:53:53  <Audigex> the point being
18:53:58  <Audigex> that we don't have enough monkeys
18:54:08  <Audigex> in fact
18:54:08  <TrueBrain> bananas shortage?
18:54:09  <pavel1269> and we have enought time?
18:54:11  <Audigex> i dont have one monkey
18:54:16  <Audigex> so even with infinate time
18:54:20  <Audigex> we're still one monkey short
18:54:25  <Audigex> *infinite
18:54:26  <pavel1269> go zoo
18:54:36  <Audigex> i dont have a box to carry it in
18:54:38  <Audigex> so therefore
18:54:43  <Audigex> i'm calling the whole thing off
18:54:55  <pavel1269> btw, if universe is not infinite, whats its limits? or ... ?
18:55:06  <pavel1269> Audigex: okay, no more monkeys
18:55:07  <TrueBrain> time!
18:55:11  <TrueBrain> maybe space, we don't know ..
18:55:30  <Audigex> space is a lack of matter
18:55:38  <TrueBrain> no, that is void
18:55:43  <Audigex> ...
18:55:51  <Audigex> so if we include void in the universe
18:55:53  <Audigex> the universe is infinate
18:55:58  <TrueBrain> infinite!!!
18:55:59  <pavel1269> void is no border for universe, so actually, it is infinite
18:56:03  <Audigex> fuck off
18:56:05  <Audigex> :)
18:56:09  <pavel1269> :-O
18:56:10  <TrueBrain> if you supply the girl
18:56:12  <TrueBrain> no monkeys
18:56:14  <Audigex> haha
18:56:25  <Audigex> jealous
18:56:33  <Audigex> thats the other word i have trouble with
18:56:38  <Audigex> i'm normally an excellent speller
18:56:48  <Audigex> infinite, and jealous are my achilles heels
18:56:50  <TrueBrain> speller .. S P E L L E R
18:57:04  <Audigex> jeleous
18:57:08  <Audigex> jelous
18:57:09  <Audigex> etc
18:57:18  <pavel1269> why now you suck? :P
18:57:33  <TrueBrain> well, suck is just the lack of air
18:57:35  <Audigex> you haven't even taken me to the pictures yet
18:57:36  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
18:57:39  <Audigex> so no, i dont suck
18:57:41  <fjb> Hello
18:57:44  <Audigex> hihi
18:57:46  <TrueBrain> howdie fjb
18:57:46  <pavel1269> hi
18:57:52  <TrueBrain> do you have a monkey?
18:57:58  <Audigex> or know someone who does?
18:58:01  <pavel1269> we need .. one ...
18:58:12  <Audigex> well, we might need more than one
18:58:14  <Audigex> if it dies
18:58:20  <pavel1269> so infinite?
18:58:24  <Audigex> yup
18:58:26  <TrueBrain> if possible
18:58:32  <pavel1269> thats a bit much i guess
18:58:33  <Audigex> if not, one will do
18:58:35  <TrueBrain> well.. if we all arrange 1 monkey
18:58:39  <TrueBrain> and from the person we get it
18:58:45  <TrueBrain> we let him arrange 1 monkey too
18:58:49  <fjb> Something is strange here today. Somebody talks about sucking and Sacro doesn't reply.
18:58:49  <TrueBrain> in the end .. we have inifnite monkeys!
18:59:06  <pavel1269> we dont have infinite folks :-)
18:59:08  <Audigex> truebrain - i don't like pyramid schemes
18:59:14  <Audigex> pavel, nor do we have infinate monkeys
18:59:18  <Audigex> can we substitute lemurs?
18:59:20  <pavel1269> same
18:59:21  <TrueBrain> too many people got arrested over it :(
18:59:22  <pavel1269> :D
18:59:23  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
18:59:47  <TrueBrain> 2 down ... :p
19:00:03  <TrueBrain> if we promise not to talk about their family again, will they come back?
19:00:10  <fjb> Pyramid schemes? Arrest the FED.
19:00:28  * TrueBrain hugs Alberth and Rubidium .. that was not nice of me
19:00:51  <pavel1269> if we dont have infinite universe, nor we have infinite matter, how can we have infinite monkeys :-)
19:01:06  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: just .. because!
19:01:11  <TrueBrain> there are things you have to assume as true in life
19:01:23  <pavel1269> true, universe is infinite
19:01:26  <TrueBrain> no
19:01:28  <pavel1269> yes
19:01:31  <TrueBrain> there are an infnite amount of monkeys
19:01:36  <Audigex> right, regardless of what we're talking about when rubidium comes back
19:01:43  <Audigex> start talking about infinate monkeys etc
19:01:46  <Audigex> and shakespeare
19:01:48  <TrueBrain> INFINITE!!
19:01:50  <TrueBrain> :p
19:01:51  <pavel1269> :D
19:01:51  <TrueBrain> hihi :)
19:01:53  <TrueBrain> sorry :)
19:01:54  <Audigex> lots of monkeys
19:01:54  <TrueBrain> you said you never said it wrong :p
19:02:03  <Audigex> no, i said i always say it wrong
19:02:05  <pavel1269> never say never :-)
19:02:10  <TrueBrain> oh .. I misread that then :p
19:02:13  <Audigex> yup
19:02:13  <TrueBrain> then I will shut up about it :)
19:02:17  <Audigex> or maybe i mistyped
19:02:22  <Audigex> it's a word i perpetually misspell
19:02:24  <TrueBrain> maybe you are a monkey!
19:02:31  <Audigex> i'll start typing....
19:02:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17172 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move the _message_opt variable into the MessageOptionsWindow struct.
19:02:47  <Audigex> Hamet Act 1 Scene 1 Andaajgkjjgjagkakjlgajalsafasasa
19:02:48  <pavel1269> who said, we have limited universe?
19:02:54  <Audigex> not a bad start
19:02:55  <TrueBrain> I did
19:03:01  <pavel1269> i dont trust you
19:03:02  <pavel1269> prove it
19:03:06  <TrueBrain> Audigex: do you know the scripting language Shakespeare?
19:03:09  <TrueBrain> you would love it I guess
19:03:11  <Audigex> nope
19:03:22  <pavel1269> GenWord()?
19:03:33  <TrueBrain>
19:03:33  <pavel1269> while ... echo ... no more needed?
19:03:53  <TrueBrain> it is really really really cool
19:04:15  <frosch123> <- why isn't it NewTrains and NewClimate?
19:04:33  *** Antigon [~Poly@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:04:53  <pavel1269> tb, it some kind of joke?
19:05:04  <pavel1269> you know, i sux at english, so i need a bit help ^^
19:05:08  <Audigex> yes, it's a joke
19:05:10  <Audigex> like locode
19:05:13  <Audigex> *lolcode
19:05:13  <TrueBrain> no, it is really a language
19:05:16  <TrueBrain> you can really code in it
19:05:21  <Audigex> i knoiw
19:05:23  <Audigex> *know
19:05:25  <Audigex> but it's still a joke
19:05:26  <TrueBrain> if you execute this application, it will run '10 botles of beer on the wall'
19:05:37  <TrueBrain> as much of a joke as brainfuck and whitespace
19:05:46  <TrueBrain> frosch123: who owns that website?
19:05:47  <Audigex> yes
19:05:50  <Audigex> which are both jokes
19:05:54  <Audigex> they're very clever jokes
19:05:56  <Audigex> but still jokes
19:05:59  <pavel1269> i dont know anything you just said :-(
19:06:08  <frosch123> TrueBrain: it is not a website
19:06:15  <TrueBrain> image of a website :p
19:06:18  <frosch123> imo a website is something online
19:06:32  <TrueBrain> then what is it? :p
19:06:38  <pavel1269> :-O
19:06:49  <pavel1269> i had it cached before i went there?
19:06:50  <frosch123> maybe it is a meta-teaser
19:07:02  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: <- brainfuck
19:07:05  <frosch123> a teaser of something showsing teasers
19:07:33  <TrueBrain> hehe
19:07:37  <TrueBrain> cryptic, I like :)
19:07:46  <TrueBrain> but so I can't answer your question, I am so sorry :(
19:08:07  <frosch123> btw. all teasers of that kind are by mb
19:08:13  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: <- whitespace (yes, very white)
19:08:23  <TrueBrain> oh .. too bad
19:08:51  <Audigex> is there any way to completely remove the news popups?
19:09:01  <TrueBrain> under the ?
19:09:04  <TrueBrain> Message options
19:09:07  <TrueBrain> HE! THIS WAS OPENTTD RELATED
19:09:24  <pavel1269> :D
19:09:32  <Audigex> :s
19:09:45  <pavel1269> he answered, why :S?
19:10:00  <TrueBrain> btw, I really meant underthe ? :p
19:10:02  <TrueBrain> the red thingy
19:10:40  <pavel1269> tb: honestly, i still didnt get it ... with that whitespaces, brainfuck ... :-/
19:11:03  <TrueBrain> languages
19:11:04  <TrueBrain> like C
19:11:07  <TrueBrain> and Java
19:11:23  <pavel1269> okay, whats shown just on that page ... some test output?
19:12:21  <Audigex> right, in openttd - is there a way to completely remove all news messages?
19:12:37  <Audigex> assuming that i don't give two shits about production and closing industries
19:12:44  <Audigex> other than removing industries completely
19:12:58  *** Yexo [] has joined #openttd
19:13:01  <pavel1269> yes
19:13:05  <Yexo> good evening
19:13:10  <pavel1269> go to message settings
19:13:13  <pavel1269> hello Yexo
19:13:40  <pavel1269> at GUI ... just before the big "?" ... hold and second one
19:13:54  <_ln> what is it about OpenTTD that attracts .nl-ers so much?
19:14:08  <pavel1269> .nl ... norway?
19:14:10  <pavel1269> poland?
19:14:23  <TrueBrain> Audigex: I just told you ...
19:14:30  <TrueBrain> howdie Yexo :)
19:14:31  <Xaroth> pavel1269: dutch
19:14:46  <bb10> pavel1269: holland, netherlands
19:14:47  <Audigex> true, i dont see anywhere that says :s
19:14:51  * pavel1269 searching in dictonary for dutch
19:14:57  <Yexo> hi TrueBrain :)
19:15:07  <pavel1269> i thought, they died out, and they were just in games like civ
19:15:10  <bb10> pavel1269: weedland LOL
19:15:22  <TrueBrain> Audigex: the ? on the top right .. you see it?
19:15:26  <Audigex> yes
19:15:29  <Audigex> i dont see message options
19:15:29  <TrueBrain> click hold
19:15:31  <TrueBrain> messages ...
19:15:47  <Audigex> aha
19:15:51  <Audigex> its under the one next to the ?
19:15:59  <pavel1269> nooo
19:16:05  <pavel1269> oh yes
19:16:05  <pavel1269> :D
19:16:14  <Audigex> thanks
19:16:20  <pavel1269> i read you line, but the "next" was missed
19:16:30  <Audigex> :)
19:16:50  <TrueBrain> is it moved? Oh :p
19:16:53  <pavel1269> noo
19:16:54  <pavel1269> :-)
19:16:55  <pavel1269> my bad
19:16:58  <pavel1269> :-(
19:17:30  <Audigex> excellent, improves my performance nicely :)
19:17:35  <Audigex> i need to up my bus speed though
19:17:44  <TrueBrain> use the cheat
19:17:58  <Audigex> my system bus
19:18:10  <TrueBrain> gniffel
19:18:42  <TrueBrain> I guess that was missing two *
19:19:02  <Audigex> my pc lags in ottd even though none of my cores are near 100%, and my GPU is practically idling
19:19:05  <Audigex> plenty of ram left
19:19:16  <TrueBrain> no worries, one core it at 100%
19:19:19  <TrueBrain> it = is
19:19:21  <_ln> is there a rail vehicle that looks like a DeLorean?
19:19:27  <Audigex> it's only lagging in ottdcoop
19:19:29  <Audigex> but still
19:19:36  <Audigex> so my thought is that it must be bottlnecking somewhere
19:19:44  <Audigex> either my ram - shouldn't be the problem
19:19:50  <Audigex> or my system bus
19:19:57  <pavel1269> between monitor and case? :P
19:20:00  <Audigex> which is slow compared to my total clock speed
19:20:08  <Audigex> :s
19:20:11  <Audigex> eh?
19:20:16  <TrueBrain> Audigex: ah, yes the one left of the ?, hihi, my mistake :) (had to look it up :p)
19:20:17  <Audigex> system bus isn't a cable
19:20:21  <Audigex> :)
19:20:25  <^Spike^> Audigex the current game @ ottdcoop is laggy for most :)
19:20:27  <TrueBrain> Audigex: it is because 1 core is at 100% :p
19:20:28  <Audigex> thats why i was confused
19:20:38  <^Spike^> it has lots of trains :)
19:20:48  <Audigex> it must be server side then
19:21:16  <OwenS> Audigex: Nope
19:21:17  <Audigex> like i said, none of my system is approaching full usage
19:21:20  *** Antigon [~Poly@] has joined #openttd
19:21:26  <TrueBrain> Audigex: 1 core is :)
19:21:29  <Audigex> so unless i'm bottlenecking badly
19:21:32  <Audigex> truebrain - no it isnt
19:21:36  <TrueBrain> no worries, that is for everyone joining coop games :p
19:21:42  *** tux_mark_5 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:21:45  <OwenS> Audigex: Lag in OpenTTDCoop means your system is not fast enough
19:21:51  <Audigex> my system flies
19:21:57  <pavel1269> where to?
19:21:58  <TrueBrain> sure, it most likely will
19:22:01  <OwenS> How much processor is the game taking vs how many cores do you have?
19:22:06  <TrueBrain> but check the % of the openttd process :p
19:22:11  <Audigex> 3.8gHz tri-core, 8800gt and 4gb pc2-8500
19:22:22  <TrueBrain> your memory, your GPU, both don't matter
19:22:27  <TrueBrain> tri-core? Cool, didn't know they created those
19:22:35  <TrueBrain> either way, doesn't matter ..
19:22:37  <Audigex> individual core loads are 21%, 3% and 49%
19:22:38  <OwenS> TrueBrain: It's a broken quad core :p
19:22:40  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD uses 1 core
19:22:45  <TrueBrain> OwenS: I guess :p
19:22:46  <pavel1269> you know, one failed, so they shut it off ..
19:22:52  <Audigex> exactly
19:23:01  <Audigex> but the point being, none of the three are anywhere near 100%
19:23:09  <Audigex> and my gpu is practically idling
19:23:21  <OwenS> RAM usage?
19:23:25  <TrueBrain> that might have to do with the simple fact that OpenTTD doesn't use the GPU .. in any way ..
19:23:30  <pavel1269> :D
19:23:48  <^Spike^> if ottd started using GPU i also want it to support DX10 ATLEAST :D
19:23:54  <TrueBrain> well, for 8bpp I Believe it uses hardware palette :p
19:24:10  <TrueBrain> yes, it really needs DX10 features!!!!!11111
19:24:10  <Audigex> ram usage is 1.5gb out of 4gb
19:24:10  <OwenS> ^Spike^: DX10? Erm, OpenGL anyone? Which does more? On more platforms? And is nicer?
19:24:18  <^Spike^> true.. :)
19:24:20  <^Spike^> but still :)
19:24:33  <TrueBrain> pixelshader!!!
19:24:35  <TrueBrain> YES!
19:24:37  <pavel1269> which is faster? :-)
19:24:38  * ^Spike^ has seen cryengine screenshots...
19:24:43  <TrueBrain> lets do that for 8bpp ... graphics .....
19:24:44  <OwenS> TrueBrain: It would actually work for 8->32bpp conversion :p
19:24:56  <TrueBrain> OwenS: DX5 can do that :p
19:25:07  <pavel1269> win 3.11? :D
19:25:10  <OwenS> OpenGL has no pallette mode :p
19:25:12  <^Spike^> win1
19:25:19  <Audigex> it's using, as an absolute maximum, 75% of core #2
19:25:21  <TrueBrain> OwenS: the reason the latest OpenGL patch was slow :p
19:25:25  <^Spike^> or.. or.... MS-Dos 4.0! :)
19:25:31  <TrueBrain> Audigex: OpenTTD only uses one core ..
19:25:34  <pavel1269> ^Spike^: you dont actually know history, right? :-)
19:25:35  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Why didn't it use a shader to do 8->32 conversion? :p
19:25:36  <TrueBrain> the core it is launched in
19:25:39  <OwenS> One texture lookup
19:25:41  <TrueBrain> or do you have .. what was it called ..
19:25:48  <^Spike^> i started on win3.1 :D
19:25:48  <OwenS> Audigex: Connection Lost means either "Your internet connection lost" or "Your machine did not catch up"
19:25:48  <TrueBrain> OwenS: the problem was company colours :p
19:25:57  <TrueBrain> Audigex: wow .... no need to scream
19:26:02  <Audigex> i said it before :)
19:26:08  <Audigex> and you ignored it :(
19:26:16  <TrueBrain> yes, like you ignore what we say :p
19:26:25  <TrueBrain> I don't care :) No need to talk in CAPITALS
19:26:28  <Audigex> i just ignore your ranting about monkeys
19:26:29  <pavel1269> ^Spike^: win1 was just for advertisment, it was not working :P
19:26:33  <OwenS> TrueBrain: OK, one texture map per company. Simples.
19:26:41  <TrueBrain> OwenS: turned out to be not that simple :)
19:26:44  <^Spike^> i had it somewhere once.. downloaded :D
19:26:44  <Audigex> but like i'm saying, my pc is lagging still
19:26:47  <^Spike^> never checked it out :D
19:26:49  <TrueBrain> but petern got more done than I did :)
19:26:50  <Audigex> even though it's not hitting 100% usage
19:26:53  <^Spike^> Audigex it's the ottdcoop game
19:26:54  <Audigex> so i think it might be the system bus
19:27:04  <TrueBrain> yes, I also always suspect my system bus ......
19:27:05  <^Spike^> this is a pretty heavy game..
19:27:07  <OwenS> If it were the system bus YOUR CPU WOULD BE 100% USAGE
19:27:10  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD uses so much of it ...
19:27:26  <Audigex> owens - but if the problem is that the cpu can't get the data from the memory?
19:27:30  <Audigex> i'm heavily overclocked
19:27:32  <Audigex> but specificiall
19:27:32  <OwenS> Audigex: Then it sits there waiting
19:27:35  <Audigex> *specifically
19:27:37  <TrueBrain> oh, yes, OpenTTD uses so much of the memory ...
19:27:41  <OwenS> Overclocked? This may explain a lot...
19:27:42  <TrueBrain> TONS of bits per second
19:27:42  <Audigex> i'm heavily >multiplier < overclocked
19:27:51  <TrueBrain> so your stats are wrong :p
19:27:57  <Audigex> so my core speed is artificially raised
19:28:09  <Audigex> my thought is that my processor just can't get the data from the memory fast enough
19:28:14  <Audigex> which is why it's not at 100% itself
19:28:15  <OwenS> then it would be at 100% usage
19:28:15  <TrueBrain> then your CPU will be at 100%
19:28:20  <pavel1269> :-)
19:28:24  <Audigex> surely it wouldn't though
19:28:27  <OwenS> it would
19:28:29  <TrueBrain> sure, your computer not
19:28:30  <OwenS> Becuase the instruction stalls
19:28:31  <TrueBrain> ours will
19:28:37  <Audigex> hmm
19:28:39  <pavel1269> how many times i jsut read it for last 30mins? ... :-)
19:28:43  <^Spike^> maybe the overclocking is the problem?
19:28:43  <TrueBrain> maybe you have this really special computer
19:28:51  <Audigex> spike, the overclock is pretty damn stable
19:28:55  <^Spike^> mhm...
19:28:56  <TrueBrain> one that doesn't follow the classic rules of CPU design ..
19:29:01  <OwenS> Audigex: 32-bit or 64-bit OS?
19:29:15  <Audigex> 64bit, but 32bit ottd
19:29:18  <TrueBrain> damn .. and I did so well today not being sarcastic :(
19:29:19  <pavel1269> TB: he might have found a monkey
19:29:21  <Audigex> could that be an issue?
19:29:40  <TrueBrain> no
19:29:43  <Audigex> truebrain - triple core is unusual, but doesn't make any difference to a single-threaded app
19:29:58  <OwenS> No. I was checking because lots of Phenoms overclock "well" under 32-bit OSes but are actually flaky
19:30:02  <TrueBrain> and assuming you have a default x86 CPU, your CPU will stall on bus-problems
19:30:24  <Audigex> owens - that's exactly why i went 64bit
19:30:28  <Audigex> i was aware of the issue
19:30:30  <OwenS> So, what does the PROCESS' CPU indicator say? Not the system CPU indicators - the process indicators
19:30:41  <Audigex> the process indicator is hovering at about 20%
19:30:49  <OwenS> While connected?
19:30:52  <Audigex> up to about 27 max
19:30:56  <Audigex> yes
19:31:01  <TrueBrain> OwenS: well, in theory if the server can't keep up, clients will be slowed down too
19:31:12  <pavel1269> they must ..
19:31:18  <TrueBrain> it is how I designed it :p
19:31:21  <OwenS> TrueBrain: I happen to know the OpenTTDCoop server is better than that :p
19:31:25  <pavel1269> you?! :D
19:31:32  <TrueBrain> I dunno which game is currently loaded
19:31:45  <pavel1269> you dont even know, why my trains are breaking!
19:32:06  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: I don't do newgrf
19:32:07  <OwenS> And I know exactly the problem. Gamesize: 1.2MB. Game unpauses while download in progress.
19:32:12  <TrueBrain> as soon as you say: I have a grf loaded, I stop listening :)
19:32:22  <OwenS> Client gets kicked before it catches up
19:32:22  <pavel1269> :-)
19:32:30  <TrueBrain> OwenS: by design :)
19:32:39  <OwenS> TrueBrain: By design would it please stay paused? :p
19:32:53  <OwenS> Or pause when it reaches 100% :p
19:32:56  <Audigex> just another thought - turning news off and full detail and animation don't make any difference to the amount of lag
19:32:57  <TrueBrain> well, the pause/unpause I wouldn't know
19:33:06  <TrueBrain> but the catching up part I was refering too :p
19:33:14  <Audigex> it's odd
19:33:18  <Audigex> hang on
19:33:26  <Audigex> can i save a copy of the coop game?
19:33:28  <Audigex> and run it locally?
19:33:29  <TrueBrain> in very very rare cases, your network can be to slow to receive the stream of packets :p
19:34:03  <OwenS> Audigex: Yes. Connect and save game :p
19:34:09  <Audigex> right
19:34:12  <TrueBrain> OwenS: I believe the game pauses as soon as the map is done, and the client is ready to load it, not?
19:34:15  <Audigex> 0 lag
19:34:15  <TrueBrain> (I can never remember :p)
19:34:21  <TrueBrain> 0 lag is impossible
19:34:23  <TrueBrain> it is always 1 or more
19:34:23  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Nope. It leaves it unpaused
19:34:29  <TrueBrain> OwenS: is the pause option on? :p
19:34:38  *** oskari89 [] has quit [Quit: Utm Aœ - Aja 35]
19:34:38  <OwenS> TrueBrain: The pause option is broken :p
19:34:39  <pavel1269> what if he does play on same machine? :P
19:34:41  <Audigex> you know what i mean
19:34:43  <petern> who what?
19:34:51  <Audigex> i'm playing normally on the local copy
19:34:54  <pavel1269> peter! :D
19:34:55  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: fair enough :)
19:34:59  <TrueBrain> MP is always 1+ :p
19:35:09  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:35:14  <OwenS> Audigex: If it's playing normally locally... Whats your latency to the server like?
19:35:16  <Audigex> and processor usage is all but identical
19:35:19  <Audigex> ip?
19:35:27  <OwenS>
19:35:46  <pavel1269> question for newcomers ... :-) ... NARS, no breakdowns, why my trains are breaking down? feature of NARS? :-)
19:35:56  <Audigex> around 40ms
19:35:58  <TrueBrain> OwenS: latency will only get you kicked after a while .. it needs to be a burst problem to have any visual effect :p
19:36:01  <Audigex> couple are spiking up to 50ms
19:36:16  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Yes. But in general I find latency tends to cause packets to bunch together :p
19:36:25  <Audigex> re-running it brings one of 90ms
19:36:28  <OwenS> If it's congestion latency
19:36:35  <Audigex> i can't imagine 40ms is particularly high?
19:36:44  <OwenS> I've played almost fine with 500ms...
19:36:49  <Audigex> a few heading towards mid 50s
19:36:52  <OwenS> (I'll admit 500ms makes everything else no fun!)
19:36:56  <TrueBrain> have been helping with ISP 'redirecting' torrent traffic lately .. bitchy filters :(
19:37:01  <pavel1269> 40 is in middle for FPS games :-)
19:37:11  <petern> 1ms latency is verging on too much
19:37:12  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Define redirecting?
19:37:14  <petern> er, 10ms
19:37:22  <petern> but i guess you're not talking about audio latency
19:37:27  <pavel1269> :D
19:37:35  <TrueBrain> OwenS: sending via routers with less bandwidth, I guess? :P
19:37:41  <OwenS> lol
19:37:56  <OwenS> So how well do said filters work? :p
19:37:56  <TrueBrain> petern: I always hate my audio system have 24+ms latency :(
19:38:01  * Yexo is wondering why Dustion thinks he knows the openttd coding better then the openttd devs
19:38:04  <Audigex> pavel - 40ms is in the middle for fps games, but it also matters more on fps
19:38:09  <petern> TrueBrain, then set it up properly :)
19:38:10  <TrueBrain> Yexo: because he is a big fat ass
19:38:13  <Audigex> yexo, where?
19:38:22  <TrueBrain> petern: buy a decent card might help ..
19:38:23  <Yexo> Audigex: wiki
19:38:26  <TrueBrain> what was the word ....
19:38:33  <Audigex> article?
19:38:36  <pavel1269> Audigex: if you have 90ms, you are l4g3r, and will get ban, no matter your fps :-)
19:38:37  <petern> TrueBrain, not really, even an sb live can do sub 10ms
19:38:39  <Yexo> just scan over recent changes
19:38:40  <TrueBrain> grr, always forget that word for cards that have low latency :(
19:38:46  <petern> (as can intel-hda)
19:38:51  <TrueBrain> petern: didn't a sb live have that thingy .. hmm ..
19:38:56  <Audigex> pavel - it's always great at uni - 3ms is common
19:38:56  <Yexo> TrueBrain: that's a bit harsh
19:38:57  <petern> 48kHz only, yes
19:39:02  <pavel1269> uni?
19:39:04  <Audigex> woop for 100mbs
19:39:06  <Yexo> but he could've checked before assuming all examples were wrong
19:39:07  <Audigex> when i'm at uni
19:39:17  <pavel1269> whats uni? :D
19:39:19  <Audigex> i'm on a 100mb lan, connected to the JANET uk education network
19:39:21  <Audigex> university
19:39:24  <pavel1269> ahh
19:39:30  <petern> TrueBrain, you're probably thinking asio, which is a driver framework, not hardware
19:39:30  <Audigex> not here, though
19:39:31  <TrueBrain> Yexo: what I read from him on the forums .. sorry ..
19:39:36  <pavel1269> i thought, you are not male nor female, you are uni ?:-)
19:39:40  <TrueBrain> petern: no .. hmm ... now I want to look it up ..
19:40:04  <petern> wikipedia to the rescue?
19:40:38  <TrueBrain> btw, playing guitar with 24+ ms latency is no fun
19:40:41  <TrueBrain> you keep missing the beat :p
19:40:44  <Yexo> TrueBrain: I haven't noticed him that much, so could be
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19:41:07  <petern> i can get down to 1ms latency, but cpu usage skyrockets then
19:41:08  <Xaroth> -21:40:37- [TrueBrain]: btw, playing guitar with 24+ ms latency is no fun << it probably is if i were playing, seeing i can't play my guitar for shit :P
19:41:18  <TrueBrain> auch
19:41:28  <TrueBrain> 1ms ... 1000Hz right?
19:41:32  <petern> all those interupts :D
19:41:33  <TrueBrain> needs kernel modification I guess :p
19:41:36  <petern> nope
19:41:40  <petern> well, maybe
19:41:47  <petern> i have the rt preempt patches
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19:42:05  <TrueBrain> hehe :)
19:42:05  <Audigex> guitar or guitar hero?
19:42:15  <Audigex> surely a guitar only lags if your fingers are slow
19:42:21  <Xaroth> I can play guitar hero ...
19:42:25  <Audigex> in which case you probably have bigger problems
19:42:26  <Xaroth> but not guitar :P
19:42:26  <petern> actually i got down to 16 samples per period
19:42:30  <petern> which is...
19:42:48  <petern> 0.6ms latency
19:42:58  <petern> pretty pointless
19:42:59  <TrueBrain> petern: maybe it was asio .. I don't know ...
19:43:05  <TrueBrain> it was something a audio card supports or not
19:43:11  <TrueBrain> sb live is known to support it ..
19:43:14  <TrueBrain> mine isn't :p
19:43:23  <petern> as the soundcard has a certain amount of latency you don't see for DA and AD operations
19:43:25  <TrueBrain> means I can't get below the 24ms :(
19:43:29  <petern> asio4all works, usually
19:43:34  <petern> but then, that's on windows. who uses windows?
19:43:45  * pavel1269 waves
19:44:11  <pavel1269> i feel too young to use something what actually does work
19:44:55  <petern> my m-audio has 'proper' asio drivers
19:45:02  <petern> so it's at 128 samples currently
19:45:17  <petern> ah, 6ms latency
19:45:31  <TrueBrain> lucky you :)
19:45:35  <petern> yeah :D
19:47:14  <TrueBrain> Yexo: I am happy you check those pages
19:47:49  <TrueBrain> petern: hmm ... now I come to think of it, it was my 'server' pc which horrible latency .. no idea what this 'working pc' gives ...
19:48:02  <TrueBrain> but as I don't have a mic input .. not really relevant either :p
19:48:03  <Yexo> I check the wiki recent changes from time to time, but I have to give Rubidium credit this time for pointing out an obvious mistake
19:48:14  <TrueBrain> obvious, yes
19:48:39  <Yexo> "class class MyTestAI" <- that was example code
19:48:42  <TrueBrain> well, I guess he did his best :)
19:49:15  <Yexo> yes, but that doens't always help :p
19:49:40  <TrueBrain> 20 AIs ..
19:49:42  <TrueBrain> where is Morloth? :p
19:49:55  <Yexo> haven't seen him in a while
19:49:58  <Yexo> but why now?
19:50:02  <Yexo> you have some bet about 20 AIs?
19:50:05  <TrueBrain> when we hit the 20 AIs (or was it 25?) we were going to celebrate :p
19:50:14  <TrueBrain> we only expected it 6 months ago :p
19:50:14  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:50:27  <TrueBrain> now he is a bit ... too far away :p
19:50:38  <Yexo> hehe, yes :)
19:51:44  <pavel1269> thats pitty i stopped working on my AI :-/
19:51:50  <TrueBrain> yes
19:51:58  <pavel1269> you will be even closer to your goal :D
19:52:31  <pavel1269> but i didnt have time for it ...
19:52:36  <TrueBrain> EXCUSES!
19:52:55  <TrueBrain> I don't have the time to hang around here either!
19:53:13  <Yexo> TrueBrain: depending on which AIs you count, we may have already hit the 20
19:53:32  <TrueBrain> I counted to ones who claimed a shortname
19:53:37  <pavel1269> i still dont have time to anything ^^, but at least i dont go to school anymore for now :-)
19:53:50  <TrueBrain> and yet here you talk for over an hour
19:53:54  <TrueBrain> even Audigex left
19:54:04  <Audigex> i did what?
19:54:05  <TrueBrain> so EXCUSES! :p
19:54:05  <pavel1269> ye :-/
19:54:09  <Yexo> you did notice I haven't updated it for over a month?
19:54:13  <TrueBrain> oh .. rephase: I hoped he left :p
19:54:15  * TrueBrain hugs Audigex
19:54:21  <Audigex> :(
19:54:26  <TrueBrain> Yexo: no :p Even better ;)
19:54:30  <pavel1269> well, i dont have time and i am here, so if i wasnt here, it might really be a problem? :P
19:54:42  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: maybe then you would have infinite monkeys?
19:54:48  <Tefad> INFINITE MONKEYS
19:54:52  <pavel1269> :D
19:54:59  <TrueBrain> somehow that triggered Tefad
19:55:00  <TrueBrain> scary ..
19:55:22  <Tefad> SCARY INDEED.
19:55:25  <pavel1269> tomorow, i am going to pool, anyone with me? :-)
19:55:28  <TrueBrain> we all have our trigger words .. but INFINITE MONKEYS being one of them?
19:55:31  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: sure
19:55:33  <Tefad> anyway. i'm dropping by for a few seconds and saw infinite monkeys on my screen that is all
19:55:34  <TrueBrain> you pay my flight?
19:55:42  <TrueBrain> well, welcome Tefad :)
19:55:44  <Audigex> tefad, you must have a huge screen
19:55:52  <Tefad> yes this screen has about 8 windows
19:55:52  <TrueBrain> Audigex: yes, 1 line fits on it
19:55:54  <TrueBrain> really big!
19:56:03  <Tefad> then my physical screen has about seven terminals
19:56:04  <pavel1269> TB: do you accept our "cash"?
19:56:08  <Tefad> and consists of two CRTs
19:56:08  <Audigex> Tefad>	anyway. i'm dropping by for a few seconds and saw infinite monkeys on my screen that is all
19:56:24  <Tefad> Audigex: do i really need to put quotes on it
19:56:36  <Audigex> my screen probably can't display more then 3 monkeys
19:56:46  <Audigex> and you should see some of the pedantry i had to deal with earlier :(
19:56:49  <pavel1269> what size of monkey?
19:56:55  <Audigex> between true and rubi
19:56:56  <TrueBrain> Audigex: at least it does solve our problem :p
19:57:00  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: what currency?
19:57:02  <Tefad> i am quite the pedant when it comes to grammar and context
19:57:12  <Tefad> however 'infinite monkeys' was already established in context
19:57:17  <Tefad> i felt no need to add silly quotes
19:57:20  <pavel1269> TB: you know czech koruna or whatever it is called :P
19:57:24  <Audigex> well, tough
19:57:40  <pavel1269> where do you live at btw?
19:57:46  <Tefad> papa smurf can i lick your ass?
19:57:49  <Tefad> YEAH LICK MY ASS BITCH.
19:57:50  <TrueBrain> oeh, then I can visit SmatZ too?
19:57:54  <Tefad> uh moving on now
19:58:03  <TrueBrain> Tefad: yes, moving on please
19:58:08  <pavel1269> well, i think, he is on the other side of this country :D
19:58:10  <TrueBrain> that is one too far
19:58:20  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: well .. how big can your country be? :p
19:58:40  <pavel1269> my country :-) ... i say 350kms ? :-)
19:59:02  <pavel1269> 490! ha
19:59:19  <TrueBrain> oh ... doable :)
19:59:30  * Audigex wants to know where his sister is with the pizza
19:59:32  <Yexo> TrueBrain: 23 shortnames on the list now :)
19:59:33  <TrueBrain> so, you pay my ticket in cash
19:59:37  <TrueBrain> Yexo: 2 more :p
19:59:41  <TrueBrain> Audigex: euhm ..
19:59:43  <TrueBrain> excuse me
19:59:44  <TrueBrain> ?
19:59:56  <Audigex> she's gone for pizza
20:00:01  <TrueBrain> I don't hope the answer is: in the closet
20:00:04  <TrueBrain> as that would scare me
20:00:08  <Audigex> but it's dark outside
20:00:11  <Audigex> and i'm worried
20:00:15  <Audigex> that someone's robbed her
20:00:18  <Audigex> and taken my pizza
20:00:20  <TrueBrain> then why didn't you go?!
20:00:24  <pavel1269> TrueBrain: errr, .... cya tomorow :D ...
20:00:25  <Audigex> because she has a car
20:00:28  <Audigex> and i dont
20:00:44  <Audigex> well, it was my car
20:00:46  <Audigex> but now it's hers
20:00:51  <pavel1269> :D
20:00:53  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: which airport? :p
20:01:21  <pavel1269> if like 5bucks will be anought, ^^
20:01:25  <pavel1269> *enought
20:01:43  <TrueBrain> 176 euros
20:01:48  <pavel1269> .D
20:01:50  <pavel1269> i am not robber
20:01:58  <TrueBrain> I think you soon have to be
20:02:01  *** GhostBerg0445270 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:02:04  <pavel1269> :-))
20:02:06  <TrueBrain> oh, and I stay the week
20:02:25  <TrueBrain> strangly enough, the same ticket can also cost 1130 euro
20:02:29  <TrueBrain> but then I fly via Madrid
20:02:32  <TrueBrain> (really... WHY?!)
20:02:32  <pavel1269> :-O
20:02:44  <TrueBrain> from Amsterdam to Madrid ..
20:02:45  <TrueBrain> wtf?
20:02:49  <TrueBrain> WRONG WAY!
20:03:07  <pavel1269> Amsterdam ... go via car :P
20:03:18  <pavel1269> pick up SmatZ by the way :P
20:03:24  <TrueBrain> 8 hour drive
20:03:25  <TrueBrain> doable
20:03:28  <pavel1269> :D
20:03:31  <TrueBrain> 900 km ...
20:03:35  <pavel1269> autopilot ^^
20:03:39  <TrueBrain> so ... 80 liters
20:03:42  <TrueBrain> yeah, cheaper :p
20:04:03  <TrueBrain> well, then I still need to drive to SmatZ and you .. having no idea where you both live :p
20:04:11  <pavel1269> :D
20:04:12  <andythenorth> I am trying to apply v3 of the RV physics patch...get the following problem:
20:04:12  <TrueBrain> oeh, but I can pick up Rubidium on the way
20:04:36  <andythenorth> I have searched for help, turned up similar problems, but no tips for solution
20:04:36  <pavel1269> well, i dont want to tell you now, i will meet you tomorow, and you will want 1136 euros
20:04:40  <TrueBrain> even planetmaker ..
20:04:58  <Yexo> andythenorth: are you applying to clean trunk?
20:05:04  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: the obvious .. it suggests the patch is already applied ..
20:05:09  <Yexo> did you svn up to the correct revision?
20:05:17  <petern> not 1138 euros D:
20:05:18  <andythenorth> previously applied v2 of the same patch
20:05:19  <pavel1269> well, are some Ottd meeting at this continent ... not USA/England ... like i can go there via bus? :P
20:05:28  <TrueBrain> petern: haha :) Would have been a good one ..
20:05:43  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: well .. this is not as far-fetched as you might think
20:05:47  <Yexo> andythenorth: then remove v2 first (svn revert -R .)
20:05:48  <TrueBrain> I can rent a car .. make the drive ..
20:05:51  <andythenorth> I did svn up -r 17167 before trying the v3 of the patch
20:05:55  <andythenorth> Yexo: ok thanks
20:06:00  <TrueBrain> costs me a total of 200 euro .. maybe a bit more
20:06:22  <TrueBrain> ticket is cheaper :p
20:06:24  <TrueBrain> (for 1 person)
20:06:29  <TrueBrain> I have to drive both ways
20:06:31  <TrueBrain> hehe
20:06:45  <andythenorth> those bloody . characters in svn  :\
20:06:57  *** tux_mark_5 [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 00:45:02 UTC]
20:06:59  <andythenorth> looks like it is going to compile, thanks
20:07:36  <TrueBrain> oh well .. time for a movie :)
20:07:37  <TrueBrain> good night all
20:07:42  <Yexo> night TrueBrain
20:07:42  <TrueBrain> night Audigex
20:07:45  <TrueBrain> night Yexo
20:07:48  <TrueBrain> night pavel1269
20:07:49  <TrueBrain> night petern
20:07:51  <TrueBrain> night rest :p
20:07:55  <pavel1269> nn TrueBrain
20:07:56  <Xaroth> nn TB
20:08:46  <xmakina> night tb
20:09:09  <petern> night tart
20:09:52  <pavel1269> so, tomorrow at pool .... "+49? 12' 3.61", +16? 35' 10.98" " ... who will come? :D
20:10:32  <TrueBrain> MEXICO!?
20:10:44  <TrueBrain> retarded google maps
20:11:03  <pavel1269> i have this coords from google maps :D
20:11:12  <TrueBrain> fill it in with the quotes
20:11:23  <TrueBrain> oh .. in that case I do not pass next to planetmaker :p
20:11:32  <TrueBrain> and it is a 10 hour drive
20:11:34  <TrueBrain> sorry pavel1269
20:11:41  <TrueBrain> oh, movie
20:11:42  <TrueBrain> bye!! :)
20:11:45  <pavel1269> " 49.201002,16.586382 "
20:11:46  <pavel1269> :-)
20:11:48  <pavel1269> try this
20:12:18  <pavel1269> i copyed what i wrote and it gave me right place
20:12:35  *** Coco-Banana-Man [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:13:19  <pavel1269> rofl ...
20:13:21  <pavel1269> jst tryed
20:13:22  <pavel1269> :D
20:13:53  <pavel1269> you know "Placement on map is approximate"
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20:15:23  <Eddi|zuHause> "Krav? hora 602 00 Brno, Tschechische Republik" <- am i right there?
20:15:50  <pavel1269> ye
20:15:58  <pavel1269> not sure about "Tschechische"
20:16:12  <pavel1269> you see pool right? :P
20:16:18  <abbmaz> in english Czech
20:16:21  <_ln> why did i read "Tschetschenische"...
20:16:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
20:16:47  <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: that's somewhat further off :p
20:16:51  <abbmaz> in czech, Cesky I think with \/ over the C
20:16:59  <pavel1269> right! :-)
20:17:04  <pavel1269> ?
20:17:05  <pavel1269> :-)
20:17:10  <_ln> ?
20:17:13  <pavel1269> ?
20:17:14  <Eddi|zuHause> ?
20:17:51  <abbmaz> not present in my character set ;)
20:18:01  <_ln> interestingly, Tschetschenien in russian requires only five letters.
20:18:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you have a baseball field?
20:18:38  <pavel1269> baseball at pool? :P
20:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause> well, next to it...
20:18:52  <pavel1269> not really
20:19:00  <Eddi|zuHause> looks like that on the map
20:19:31  <pavel1269> actually it must be, but not a public
20:22:18  *** Antigon [~Poly@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:22:20  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... from Halle nach Br?nn: Start 6:12, Arrival 14:14
20:22:28  <Eddi|zuHause> 84,20EUR
20:23:07  <pavel1269> nice price for seeing a fring, isnt it? :D
20:23:15  <pavel1269> *friends
20:23:18  <pavel1269> **friend
20:24:23  <pavel1269> but tomorow is not so nice, i will jsu swim maybye there ... but at sunday ... :-)
20:25:37  <pavel1269> 	Brunn-Maria Enzersdorf 	6:11	6:12	 	Vlak S 24258 roz???en? p?eprava spoluzavazadel, p?edev??m j?zdn?ch kol
20:25:37  <pavel1269>  	 	Wien S?dbahnhof Bstg. 21-22 	6:33	6:34	 	P?esun P?esun asi 8 min
20:25:37  <pavel1269>  	 	Wien S?dbahnhof Bstg. 1-9 	 	6:58	 	Vlak 76 Gustav Klimt restaura?n? v?z
20:25:37  <pavel1269>  	 	Brno hl.n. 	8:39	8:41
20:25:42  <pavel1269> :-P
20:26:06  <pavel1269> train ... 2hours, 27mins, nice
20:26:21  <pavel1269> but does not show a price :-/
20:26:45  <Eddi|zuHause> where are YOU going right now?
20:26:57  <pavel1269> bed
20:27:10  <pavel1269> or what do you mean?
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20:27:17  <pavel1269> i live at Brno :-)
20:27:29  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean you show something about going to Wien
20:27:40  <Eddi|zuHause> which is, like, the opposite direction ;)
20:27:58  <pavel1269> the direction is .. Brunn -> wien -> Brno
20:28:01  <pavel1269> :-)
20:28:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i said Br?nn, not Brunn
20:28:35  <pavel1269> i cant type .. that u
20:28:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Br?nn == german name for Brno
20:28:42  <pavel1269> :D
20:28:46  <pavel1269> lol!
20:29:11  <pavel1269> so, you start at "Halle"?
20:29:25  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, Halle (Saale), to be more exact
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20:30:15  <pavel1269> it knows only "saales"
20:30:30  <Eddi|zuHause> what "it"?
20:30:40  <pavel1269> my "route planner" :D
20:30:47  <Eddi|zuHause> "Halle (Saale)" is the exact name of the city
20:30:52  <pavel1269> lol!
20:30:58  <pavel1269> saales is 1200kms away
20:31:18  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound like the right place :p
20:31:22  <pavel1269> and its some little village, travelling from there 17-24hours
20:31:44  <abbmaz> use's route planner for timetables :)
20:31:57  <abbmaz> it recognizes many different names for places
20:32:35  <pavel1269> oh, Halle is 600km away :/
20:32:56  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that sounds more like it ;)
20:33:18  <Eddi|zuHause> there are more than one "Halle"s in germany, though
20:33:26  <Eddi|zuHause> be sure to use the right one
20:33:46  <pavel1269> "it" does know only one :-)
20:34:18  <pavel1269> you know, its mostly for .... "in-city" routes, and from-to cities in czech, not outside :-)
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20:41:27  <pavel1269> found photos from there (you must have a fb account :-( ) ...
20:46:51  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:48:15  <Pygma> I'm looking at topless photos of you?
20:49:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i won't get a facebook account...
20:51:43  <pavel1269> haha, i am on like 2-4 photos :-)
20:51:53  <pavel1269> from that 4pages
20:53:50  <pavel1269> we should also arrange a meeting somewhere here at europe ... like germany/austria ... :-)
20:54:31  <Eddi|zuHause> car seems to be twice as fast
20:54:43  <Eddi|zuHause>,16.472905&sspn=0.007232,0.011544&ie=UTF8&ll=50.247205,14.282227&spn=3.808132,5.910645&t=h&z=7
20:56:01  <pavel1269> Eddi|zuHause: ... so, you are comming ^^ :-D ...
20:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have a car :p
20:56:22  <pavel1269> 5hours drive -> 6hours at pool, 5 hours back, amazing :D
20:57:07  <Pygma> That sounds horrible?
20:57:45  <pavel1269> horrible is easy word for that
20:57:55  <Eddi|zuHause> add to that: 30 minutes to get to halle in the first place, at least two 20 minutes breaks
20:58:10  <Eddi|zuHause> 1h missing the right target in Br?nn
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20:59:04  <pavel1269> :D
20:59:15  <pavel1269> you have GPS, you cant miss
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21:02:20  <pavel1269> gn folks
21:07:34  *** pavel1269 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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21:17:18  *** xmakina1987 is now known as xmakina
21:20:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17173 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: Vertically align WWT_TEXT widget, generalize vertical alignment of label and text buttons.
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21:22:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17174 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Switch to vertical alignment in the message options window.
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21:24:42  <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho
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21:27:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17175 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Only auto-raise push buttons.
21:33:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17176 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move widget state updating out of OnPaint method of message options window.
21:37:01  <Audigex> hihi
21:37:07  <Coco-Banana-Man> erm..
21:37:12  <Coco-Banana-Man> quick question..
21:37:46  <Coco-Banana-Man> Is there any binary with IS3 + CargoDist + Daylength patches (or at least two of them)?
21:38:05  <Audigex> i've not seen one with all 3, i think there was one with is3+cd
21:38:10  <Audigex> cant remember where
21:38:32  <Coco-Banana-Man> ok, thank you :)
21:38:59  <Audigex> and do you mean is2 beta 3?
21:39:56  <Coco-Banana-Man> yes..
21:41:33  <Audigex> okay, i tried searching for a v3 :)
21:41:39  <Audigex> got confused when i couldnt find it
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21:59:31  <Yexo> good night
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22:01:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17177 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Message options window uses nested widget tree.
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22:07:03  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this game is over way too quickly...
22:07:05  <Terkhen> good night!
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22:07:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17178 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange (r17177): Remove now unused define.
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22:26:20  <Fast2> Ahh :) A channel with more than one or three other people.
22:28:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17179 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Merge: changelog etc. changes from 0.7 branch
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22:32:31  <Fast2> I've got a question for the people who know where to find the vehicle loading and unloading routines in the code: Where is it? I searched for them, but I didn't find. I only found "BeginLoading" and "HandleLoading" in Vehicle.cpp, but that's not what I'm searching for.
22:33:17  <planetmaker> so what is it you're searching for?
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22:36:15  <Fast2> My goal is changing the behavour of "Transfer" so the vehicle dosn't take the goods away it just brought (just like "Unload all" does).
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22:37:19  <Fast2> Be patient ;)
22:38:22  <planetmaker> Unload all will not stop you loading afterwards :-)
22:40:39  <planetmaker> it might maybe interesting to look into cargopacket*
22:40:41  <planetmaker> or station*
22:41:11  <planetmaker> though, did you look in order*
22:41:13  <planetmaker> ?
22:41:14  <Fast2> Yes, but the vehicle doesn't load goods which are coming from the station the vehicle is going to visit next
22:41:51  <Fast2> Hmpf, I'm too slow
22:42:32  <Fast2> What's the meaning of the star?
22:42:37  <Fast2> *+s
22:43:29  <planetmaker> replace * by anything :-)
22:43:50  <planetmaker> there are several files which start with the string preceeded by the star
22:44:58  <planetmaker> (same meaning as when using dir / ls in the command prompt)
22:45:04  <Fast2> I see
22:45:52  <Fast2> I thought there is something wrong with my client ;)
22:46:26  <planetmaker> nope :-)
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23:24:58  <noroot> hi all
23:25:15  <noroot> I'm having trouble to run the latest nightly, on amd64
23:25:24  <noroot> ./openttd: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
23:26:42  <Sacro> oh dear
23:26:47  <Sacro> did you install libicui?
23:27:17  <noroot> there is no such package in my distro
23:27:30  <noroot> searching for 'libicui' or 'icui' isn't giving any results
23:29:01  <noroot> and i did a 'my_package_manager --onlydeps openttd'
23:29:21  <Sacro> what distro?
23:29:25  <noroot> gentoo
23:29:43  <Sacro> hmm
23:29:46  <Sacro> why not build from source?
23:30:01  <noroot> let's try
23:30:23  <Fast2> planetmaker: Nothing fount till now...
23:30:31  <Fast2> *t|d
23:31:29  <planetmaker> Fast2: then grep the source for "transfer" or alike
23:31:36  <planetmaker> it should give you the files...
23:31:57  <planetmaker> I don't know either.... was just a guess
23:32:02  <planetmaker> and now I'm off to bed :-)
23:32:25  <planetmaker> good night
23:32:32  <Fast2> Good night
23:32:49  <Fast2> By the way: I'm a Windows user ;)
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23:34:39  <Fast2> But thanks for the tips anyway. Maybe somebody else knows
23:35:16  <Fast2> But for today it's enough for me, too.
23:36:36  <Fast2> Good night
23:36:54  <noroot> Sacro: hmm, when building from source i'm missing where to put the opengfx*.tar
23:37:44  <noroot> it's in both ~/.openttd, the openttd dir with the makefiles and the bin dir
23:41:09  <glx> try ~./openttd/data
23:41:56  <noroot> ok, thanks
23:42:12  <noroot> strange, the self-compiled openttd is starting up wihtout the dependency error :/
23:42:42  <glx> probably because it's compiled without icu support :)
23:43:28  <noroot> time for my bed now, if i start a new game this late i won't have sufficient sleep :p
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23:58:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17180 /extra/website/bananas/templates/bananas/tosInner.html: [website] -Fix [FS#2953]: wrong filenames in TOS for AI libraries
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