Log for #openttd on 2nd January 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:13  <Rubidium> Zuu: this->DrawWidgets()?
00:00:26  <Zuu> Yep, found it.
00:00:43  <Zuu> Seams each level loops over its childs.
00:01:25  <Zuu> Would like to iterate over widget 1, 2 , 3 .. END.
00:01:46  <Rubidium> why?
00:02:12  <Zuu> I want to find the next text edit widget.
00:02:23  <Rubidium> just look over the nested_array?
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00:03:05  <Rubidium> if you want text to be handled properly, it must be in that array so it can be properly handled
00:03:34  <Zuu> nested_array seams to contain just the top level containers. Or I am intrepreting nested_array_size wrong.
00:03:52  <Zuu> nested_array_size on the save window gives me the value 3. But there should be more leaf widgets.
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00:04:13  <Rubidium> there're only 3 important widgets in that window
00:04:29  *** kd5pbo [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:05:04  <Rubidium> although, 3 in the saveload window?
00:05:21  <Rubidium> that sounds wrong
00:05:48  <Rubidium> and if it were top level containers... even then it should be more
00:08:03  <Zuu> hmm, yea your right. As always. My ctrl+tab trigger code doesn't make sure the window is focused. So the first window happens to have 3 "important widgets".
00:08:27  <Zuu> And that is probably the lower "toolbar".
00:08:47  <Rubidium> that sounds plausible
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00:11:22  <Greenbear> someone there?
00:11:27  <Xaroth> no
00:11:53  <Greenbear> no?:(
00:12:00  <Xaroth> no
00:12:45  <Greenbear> anyways, im trying to install openTTD in ubuntu, but i got a message that say i'm missing "libicu38"
00:13:01  <Xaroth> sudo apt-get install .. hang on lemme find it
00:13:09  <Rubidium> don't use the Debian Lenny package for Ubuntu
00:13:27  <Greenbear> what to use then?
00:13:32  <Xaroth> er, here's one
00:13:33  <Rubidium> linux-generic
00:13:40  <Xaroth> well that one
00:14:09  <Rubidium> or use the version from the Ubuntu repository
00:14:59  <Greenbear> ohh...
00:15:05  <Rubidium> and while you're here, don't forget to read known-bugs.txt when you notice that the sound is laggy on Ubuntu
00:15:06  <Greenbear> in the repository :)
00:15:10  <Greenbear> that easy :-D
00:16:03  <Rubidium> although the known-bugs.txt in Ubuntu's version doesn't mention it; it's a bug on their tracker though, which contains information on how to work around the issue
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00:16:34  <Greenbear> huh?
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00:16:48  <Xaroth> there's an issue, with sound :P
00:17:01  <Xaroth>
00:17:23  <Greenbear> oki:P
00:17:42  <Greenbear> but i have to get the files from the orginal game...
00:17:54  <Greenbear> i got them on my other computer...
00:18:40  <Rubidium> Greenbear: Ubuntu installs, by default, a buggy SDL (library we use to talk to the video/audio subsystems) configuration
00:18:55  <Rubidium> which causes OpenTTD to use 100% CPU
00:19:25  <Greenbear> ohh?
00:19:26  <PeterT> Greenbear, try OpenGFX and OpenSFX
00:19:52  <Greenbear> have to find those files:P
00:19:58  <Greenbear> but where to put them?
00:20:22  <Rubidium> PeterT: are you really stupid enough to suggest something that doesn't work with the version of OpenTTD in Ubuntu?
00:20:41  <PeterT> why wouldn't it work?
00:20:42  <Xaroth> Rubidium: rethorical question :P
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00:21:10  <Xaroth> PeterT: last time it checked they were still stuck at 0.6.3 :P
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00:22:48  <sparr> ubuntu has 0.7.5 i think?
00:22:54  <Xaroth> they do now?
00:23:01  <Xaroth> improvement :o
00:23:05  <Rubidium> sparr: keep dreaming
00:23:12  <Sacro> arch has 1.0b1
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00:23:15  <Sacro> sigh
00:23:22  <Xaroth> b1 -_-
00:23:22  <Sacro> idiots putting beta revs in the stable package
00:23:39  <Sacro> arch has openttd, openttd-svn, openttd-beta openttd-rc
00:23:43  <Rubidium> ubuntu has 0.7.1 in their latest "stable" release
00:23:48  <sparr> this is why i prefer debian's package system
00:23:54  <sparr> I always ran debian unsable/experimental
00:24:14  <sparr> testing on servers
00:24:18  <Xaroth> openttd-svn?
00:24:52  <Xaroth> that arch's way of implementing nightly or something?
00:25:03  <Rubidium> and that's when you considerd Karmic Koala to be stable
00:28:53  <Greenbear> IT WORKS :)
00:29:10  <sparr> ubuntu's "stable" release is never as stable as debian stable, and ubuntu's beta releases are far worse than debian unstable :(
00:29:26  <sparr> I used kubuntu for 3 years, and now ubuntu for 1, and it's time to go back to debian
00:29:52  <Greenbear> the sound is fine:P
00:30:00  * Eoin uses window 7
00:30:02  <Eoin> +s
00:30:05  <Eoin> i haet it
00:30:21  <Xaroth> be glad it's not ME, or vista
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00:34:37  * Greenbear wants win 7...
00:34:43  <Greenbear> I liked the RC:)
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00:37:35  * Rubidium always gets annoyed by Windows' lack of package management and proper default install of (command line) tools
00:38:26  * Xaroth always gets annoyed by Windows
00:38:39  <Xaroth> even though I use it as a main OS :P
00:38:52  <Xaroth> and only because I can game on it properly
00:39:00  <Zuu> I don't get annoyed at it for the most of the time.
00:39:44  <glx> win7 works quite well for me :)
00:39:52  <Xaroth> I've yet to try that one
00:39:58  <Zuu> Though for the second time today I got a tiny bit annoyed at MSVC for leaving the run-button disabled. :-s
00:40:06  <Highland> Hi, i've installed the ECS vectors but i cant find a trainset that supports all the extra products. Is this possible in OpenTTD (1.0 Beta)?
00:40:38  <Xaroth> have you checked the ECS vector site/topic/whatever ?
00:40:42  <glx> ukrs and 2cc should be able to transport stuff
00:40:44  <Xaroth> should probably be on there somewhere
00:41:02  <Zuu> That said MSVC is a ton more stable than Borlad :-)
00:41:13  <Xaroth> lol borland :P
00:41:27  <Rubidium> the good old days of dBase :)
00:41:41  <Rubidium> where the first 4 characters of a statement were enough
00:41:48  <Zuu> Even the recent releases of borland hangs every now and then.
00:42:38  <Highland> ill check the ukrs /2cc sets, the problem is the wiki does not say you need it or how to get it, maybe that could be added. nevertheless good job on the dev-ving :)
00:43:09  <glx> they are available in content download IIRC
00:43:14  <Rubidium> the wiki is as good as the users updating it :)
00:44:05  <Highland> ill add my findings there :)
00:44:32  <sparr> glx: I am giving Win7 six months on my work laptop.  I have very few things to complain about, relative to previous versions of windows.  So far, 50/50 chance I will keep it on there, but very little chance I will put it on my desktop or servers or netbook
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00:49:29  <glx> the only stupid thing is MSVC express not able to compile for x64
00:49:50  <Rubidium> that's not the worst
00:50:22  <Rubidium> MSVC professional can't debug x64 .dmps on a 32 bits install of Windows
00:50:22  <Xaroth> then what is :P
00:50:31  <Xaroth> er
00:51:33  <Rubidium> it can compile and everything, but it can't extract a simple stack trace from a binary file; it shouldn't even need a x86 CPU for doing that
00:51:58  <Xaroth> odd'
00:55:21  <Zuu> Oh, yet another OSK bug :-)
00:55:34  <glx> K or X ?
00:55:44  <Zuu> K
00:55:47  <glx> ;)
00:57:47  <Highland> @ glx the 2cc train set works perfect! thanks for the help
00:57:55  <Highland> ill add this info to the wiki also
00:58:33  <Eoin> What would you say is the easiest, hassle free Windows compiler
00:58:37  <Zuu> Hmm, I have made a (yet to be uploaded) modification that adds Ctrl+Tab for cycling focus around the edit boxes of a window as well as doing escape -> unfocus.
00:59:03  <glx> Eoin: MSVC express but it's big
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00:59:18  <Eoin> hmm
00:59:31  <Eoin> MSVC is free, though?
00:59:39  <glx> express version is
00:59:40  <Zuu> OnKeyPress is never called if a focused edit box has focus and one press Escape. So it shouldn't break anything.
00:59:46  <Sacro> compiler is
00:59:56  <glx> that too :)
00:59:59  <Eoin> Sacro: i can get it on MSDNAA netherless
01:00:16  <Sacro> true dat
01:00:19  <Eoin> hmm, google MSVC
01:00:20  <glx> well 32bit compiler ;)
01:00:23  <Eoin> second result is a linux article
01:00:30  <_ln> Sacro: compiler vs. what?
01:00:53  <Sacro> _ln: IDE
01:01:03  <_ln> Sacro: that's free too.
01:01:13  <Sacro> for the express edition
01:01:16  <Sacro> not the whole stuite
01:01:18  <Sacro> *suite
01:02:13  <_ln> yes
01:03:34  <_ln> though i'm not sure what you argued, so i cannot say if i agree or not.
01:06:26  <Eoin> installing MSVC
01:07:37  <Sacro> hehe
01:10:17  <Zuu> (the focus cycle patch: )
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01:20:52  <Eoin> oh ffs
01:20:59  <Eoin> gotta restart to finish installing
01:21:01  <Eoin> kthnxno
01:22:18  <PeterT> when will this be fixed?
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01:44:00  <Zuu> PeterT: When a fix has been made. Especially if a proper fix is made.
01:44:12  <Zuu> Ie, it will be done when it is done.
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02:13:01  <_ln> the 2010 bug attacks:
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02:46:06  <Eoin> hmm
02:46:09  <Eoin> who is still awake?
02:46:21  * fjb isn't.
02:46:24  <_ln> not me
02:46:30  <dragonhorseboy> you two are
02:46:36  <dragonhorseboy> elsewise why bother typing :p
02:46:39  <Eoin> lol
02:46:45  <Eoin> i need a bit o elp
02:47:08  <dragonhorseboy> what is it eoin?
02:47:10  <Eoin> im trying to figure out how to build cargodist, do i need a specific revision?
02:47:33  <dragonhorseboy> no clue about that sorry heh
02:47:39  * dragonhorseboy points to the two others
02:47:55  * fjb points back to dragonhorseboy.
02:48:11  <Eoin> waah
02:48:12  <dragonhorseboy> fjb I said "no clue" dummy ;)
02:48:19  <dragonhorseboy> hehe
02:48:42  <fjb> You need the version which cargodist says it needs.
02:49:02  <Eoin> well
02:49:13  <Eoin> i cant find the "build" or whatever its called for cargodist
02:49:31  <fjb> The what?
02:49:48  <Eoin> well
02:49:54  <Eoin> it mention "git" and stuff
02:49:56  <Eoin> i got lost there
02:50:31  <fjb> There are also patches you can apply.
02:51:10  <Eoin> ive always just got a binary and played
02:53:06  <fjb>
02:53:36  <fjb> The name of the patch tells you which version of OpenTTD you need.
02:54:04  <Eoin> ive got that sorted :P
02:54:16  <Eoin> 18678 source being snv'd
02:54:18  <Eoin> svn'd*
02:55:06  <fjb> Ok.
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02:58:02  <Eoin> right done
02:58:36  <fjb> Apply the patch and then compile it.
02:58:57  <Eoin> tis what im doing :D
02:59:52  <fjb> Some more readable English would be helpful.
03:00:58  <Eoin> Ok, well, ive got the .diff file downloaded
03:01:09  <Eoin> not sure how you "merge" it with openttd
03:01:52  <fjb> That is done with an utility called patch.
03:02:51  <Eoin> can i use TortoiseSVN
03:03:24  <fjb> Don't know.
03:03:45  <Eoin> i supposedly ca
03:03:46  <Eoin> n
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03:14:23  <Eoin> uhm
03:14:24  <Eoin> fjb
03:14:25  <Eoin> 4>openttd - 192 error(s), 0 warning(s)
03:14:25  <Eoin> ========== Build: 3 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========
03:14:41  <Eoin> is that bad? cause thats without the patch :|
03:15:00  <fjb> Errors are always bad.
03:15:26  <fjb> What reported that errors?
03:15:31  <Eoin> alot of stuff
03:15:41  <Eoin> oh, building it in Visual C++
03:16:08  <Eoin> ill stick to using binaries :D
03:16:38  <fjb> Don't know about VC++.
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07:02:48  <sparrL2> when using presignals, i have one entry and two exits...  how can i make sure that a train going through the entry heads for the green exit instead of the red one?
07:08:54  <Yexo> is there a valid route through the green signal?
07:11:35  <sparr> yes
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10:21:57  <planetmaker> Nice, nice. Only 20 tiles big bus and lorry terminal can serve without problem 340 road vehicles
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11:10:08  <andythenorth> morning
11:10:44  <Ammler> nooning
11:26:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18685 /trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt: -Update: add genders to Catalan
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11:27:48  <Terkhen> hello
11:32:49  <roboboy> hello
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12:16:22  <andythenorth> the game is happy to place FIRS fishing harbours on very small bits of sea
12:16:31  <andythenorth> I'm not so happy with that :P
12:16:51  <andythenorth> I can use the 'magic' tiles to check how big the sea is, but then it's harder to place the harbours
12:16:53  <andythenorth> ho hum
12:26:08  <Alberth> sounds like a program problem rather than a newgrf problem to me
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12:28:44  <luk3Z> hello all
12:29:50  <luk3Z> anybody here?
12:30:39  <Rubidium> nope
12:31:09  <luk3Z> this is sad ;)
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12:40:04  <luk3Z> Remko what is the chance to implement addiional graphic for grass tiiles something like that:
12:40:29  <luk3Z> I mean in original OTTD ;)
12:41:36  <Yexo> what additional grass tiles? if you just want replacement graphics for the normal grass the chance is 0 as it can easily be done by a newgrf
12:43:33  <luk3Z> like this it was in abandoned New South Wales Rail Set it could look grat in tropical ;)
12:44:01  <Yexo> that looks like just replacement graphics, so see above
12:44:07  <roboboy> It was a newGRF
12:44:28  <luk3Z> is ths grf done already by somebody ?
12:45:17  <roboboy> I dont think it was ever released beyond the small group of testers which I was a member of untill I took a break from the game
12:46:09  <luk3Z> when I read some posts in the main thread someone put oinfo about this grf but there is no grf to download :(
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12:47:00  <luk3Z> I check who post name of this grf and I'll tell you , so you can tell me if this person is active or not ;)
12:47:02  <dragonhorseboy> hey
12:47:14  <luk3Z> hi
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12:48:44  <roboboy> I think WhiteHand\Lachie is semi active
12:49:19  <luk3Z> I read forum now Lachie told about something tests
12:49:39  <luk3Z> but this is old post Apr 23, 2009
12:50:31  <Rubidium> the forum is full of 'look I'm making this' posts, and lot of them haven't finished what they're working on
12:51:07  <dragonhorseboy> rubidium heh yeah like there should be a soft rule somewhere that you need to have some sprites completed first before ever posting about it :)
12:51:31  <luk3Z> most probably for lack of time...
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12:53:23  <roboboy> I think he lost the .lst file
12:53:41  <roboboy> .lst is the grfmaker file
12:53:52  <roboboy> format
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12:54:16  <luk3Z> I saw post about lost date somewhere
12:55:28  <luk3Z> anyway there should be some testers who may have grf which I need :)
12:56:26  <Rubidium> if only they made their thing GPLv2 and distributed the sources; then there would be backups all over the place
12:56:50  <luk3Z>  Sat Jan 26, 2008 Lachie: I've lost my working files, so no, no testers are needed.
12:57:08  <[com]buster> got a crash for you guys
12:57:08  <roboboy> I lost mine and im not alowed to distribute it anyway
12:57:55  <luk3Z> what is the chance to create new grass tiles by OTTD developers ?
12:58:27  <Rubidium> given that none of them is any good with drawing: the chance is between 0 and 1
12:58:37  <luk3Z> this tile looks like this in farm but is eye candy ;)
13:01:20  <dragonhorseboy> hehe
13:01:47  * dragonhorseboy had actually been sketching some quick sprites for my own landscape
13:02:46  <luk3Z> I suggest add farm yello tile to tropical climate ;)
13:03:44  <Yexo> luk3Z: why do you want it done by openttd developers?
13:04:08  <Yexo> There are a lot of people at the forum that are better with graphics then most of the current developers
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13:05:06  <luk3Z> It is suggestion to add more grass tiles for OTTD ;)
13:05:21  <roboboy> does he think if the developers do it, it will get in sooner?
13:05:46  <Yexo> luk3Z: all I've seen so far is replacement graphics, not additional graphics
13:06:04  <luk3Z> ok guys it is suggestion only to make game better and not looking like in 1995 ;)
13:06:28  <dragonhorseboy> why 1995?
13:06:38  <dragonhorseboy> you saying there was some kind of new grass in 1995 specifcally? :P
13:06:42  <luk3Z> ttd was released in 1995
13:06:51  <dragonhorseboy> and ?
13:07:24  <dragonhorseboy> are all grfs coded from 1995 as well? (especially opengfx)
13:07:27  <Yexo> that's fine, but I still don't get what exactly you are suggesting. Are you suggesting a) to replace the tropical grass with other graphics similar to the one in the screenshot you posted or b) add a new grass type in tropic next to the existing grass?
13:07:33  <Terkhen> I like how the game looks, if it changes, what's the point of a remake?
13:07:39  <luk3Z> the is 1 type of tile grass in temperate and 2 in tropical after couple of years ;P
13:07:41  <Yexo> if b), please explain why we should add a new grass type and not replace normal grass
13:07:46  <Rubidium> luk3Z: we are NOT going to change the original graphics *ever*. Primarily because we do not have the rights to do so! If you want different looking base graphics go to OpenGFX and see what you can get done there, if that fails... start a new base graphics set with whatever graphics you like
13:08:05  <dragonhorseboy> terkhen I got to side with you there .. thats why there's certain aspects of original graphics that I've left alone in my grf remake
13:09:19  <luk3Z> I thought OTTD add all those patch form forum to original OTTD and some new ideas/graphics
13:10:04  <Rubidium> OpenTTD is *only* the engine, it isn't the graphics nor the sounds
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13:10:16  <luk3Z> Yexo: b
13:10:45  <SpComb> luk3Z: the '95 look is awesome!
13:10:51  <SpComb> 32bpp just looks stupid :(
13:11:23  <luk3Z> SpComb: agree but some new tiles could be great ;)
13:11:34  <Yexo> luk3Z: <Yexo> if b), please explain why we should add a new grass type and not replace normal grass
13:11:49  <Zuu> luk3Z: Please go ahead and make the tiles :-)
13:12:22  <luk3Z> Zuu: tiles are half-done in farm from TTD
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13:13:02  <luk3Z> Yexo: in mountain grass is not green as in valley :D
13:13:39  <Alberth> that's a bug in reality
13:13:49  <dragonhorseboy> luk thats a reason why you should be loading snowline.grf in temperate maps anyway
13:13:56  <luk3Z> Alberth: matrix bug ?
13:14:00  <dragonhorseboy> take a look at any arctic maps and well there :)
13:14:30  <Alberth> luk3Z: whoever or whatever created the world
13:15:58  <Zuu> Alberth: How expansive is the mod operator? Is it worth a longer less readable function to reduce the usage of it?
13:16:11  <Rubidium> Zuu: it's division
13:16:33  <luk3Z> dragonhorseboy: I really like green but in this game is too much green everywhere ;)
13:16:59  <dragonhorseboy> luk then stop creating flat 2048x2048 maps with no trees? lol as if :)
13:17:18  * roboboy likes most of (O)TTD(P) they way it is graphically
13:17:18  <Rubidium> luk3Z: start OpenTTD with -b 8bpp-debug as parameters
13:17:19  <Zuu> Or build some infrastructure on it.
13:18:10  <luk3Z> Rubidium: I don't use 32bpp
13:18:42  <roboboy> he didnt mention 32Bpp
13:18:46  <Rubidium> luk3Z: what has 32bpp to do with that?
13:19:10  <luk3Z> dragonhorseboy: I don't like flat terrain it is tooo easy
13:19:20  <dragonhorseboy> luk and your point on green is?
13:19:35  <luk3Z> roboboy: he wrote like suggest I using 32 :P
13:20:03  <roboboy> no he wrote to use *bpp debug mode
13:20:05  <dragonhorseboy> luk nope I don't even see one single line from him for that
13:20:34  <luk3Z> Rubidium: ok wait
13:22:31  * roboboy wonders what -b 8bpp-debug does
13:22:41  <luk3Z> Rubidium: colorfull tiles great!
13:22:47  <Yexo> it starts openttd with the 8bpp debug blitter of course :p
13:22:48  <roboboy> wow
13:23:28  <roboboy> the text is hard to read
13:23:50  <luk3Z> I had blitter = "32bpp-optimized" anyway
13:24:30  <luk3Z> n 8bpp I only see some colour shapes :D
13:24:53  <luk3Z> anyway it is progress to add more grass tiles ;)
13:25:48  <Forked> you wink alot
13:27:36  <dragonhorseboy> one of the thing I always did wondered about was why temperate forests weren't the same behaviour as the one in tropical :S
13:28:01  <dragonhorseboy> at least I'm looking to fix that quick&easy in my grf (there's one variable flag for this .. aside to some sprites changes too)
13:28:18  <Rubidium> because tropical tree growth is like a thousand times faster than temperate trees
13:28:38  <dragonhorseboy> rubidium and why should temperate have "unlimited" trees just standing there like nothing? ;)
13:29:26  <dragonhorseboy> if someone tries to haul 200+ wood out daily without replanting it themself..well..they're going to look at a drop in output and eventually finally have no wood to load at all :)
13:29:41  <Rubidium> because in temperate regions of the world they usually replant trees, but in borneo and the like they don't
13:30:37  <dragonhorseboy> Clearcut Forestry .. that kind of name would sound amusing
13:31:15  <Alberth> Zuu: for incrementing the mod result by 1 mostly, yes
13:31:37  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: together with my LumberMill grf, there is a patch which adds randomly tree cutting.
13:32:19  <Alberth> Zuu: you can easily do it in 1 line, so I don't see 'longer code' atm
13:32:27  <Zuu> Alberth: Regarding 5 & 6 in my comment, I've resolved those quite nice now. I'm working on getting FocusNextEditWidget as tidy as possible.
13:32:41  <dragonhorseboy> this one ammler?
13:32:50  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: that is the grf
13:33:00  <Ammler> the patch is linked on the tt-forums thread
13:33:19  <dragonhorseboy> ammler hmm I actually like that idea .. looking more like selective cutting than outrighteous clearcutting
13:33:46  * dragonhorseboy searches
13:33:59  <Zuu> Alberth: Regarding the ifs in the beginning, would you prefer setting the two vars for one case, and then use a if to detect the other case and cahnge the vars - or - just create the variables and possible assign zero to them, and then use a if - else to assign the different values?
13:34:14  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy:
13:34:31  <andythenorth> meh, the tropic lumber mill behaviour drives me nuts
13:34:41  <Alberth> Zuu: : busy reading your comment, a moment plz
13:34:41  <andythenorth> plant trees?  It's a transport game, no?
13:34:47  * andythenorth runs away
13:34:54  <Zuu> Alberth: Sure :-)
13:35:10  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: patch:
13:35:27  * dragonhorseboy grabs andythenorth back and points out that its more than only transporting
13:35:37  <andythenorth> yes yes.
13:35:43  <Alberth> andythenorth: why didn't somebody implement a sustainable, environmently friendly saw mill ? :p
13:35:50  <dragonhorseboy> eg why do you have passenger carriages on your train? thats because of laying roads for a town to grow etc and the station placed in there too and so on
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13:36:58  <andythenorth> planting trees to feed an industry is weirdly micro-managing in a game that doesn't feature much micro managing
13:37:29  <andythenorth> can we have a patch to plant rocks in game please
13:37:48  <andythenorth> then I can have FIRS quarries where you have to 'plant' rocks every few months
13:37:49  <andythenorth> :P
13:37:52  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth if you wanted 700+ woods then don't complain .. you need to plant the trees for your greedy finances :)
13:37:56  <andythenorth> I should have some tea I think :)
13:38:04  <dragonhorseboy> elsewise just don't bother.. as if
13:38:07  <Ammler> andythenorth: you don't need to plant trees
13:38:14  <Alberth> Zuu: ifs in the beginning, both ways are good
13:38:17  <Ammler> they regrow self
13:38:29  <Zuu> Alberth: Ok
13:38:37  <Zuu> ay
13:38:42  <Ammler> except you have a LumberMill adjacent to each other
13:40:13  <Alberth> Zuu: ad 3: line 792 window_gui.h asserts that you get what you asked for.
13:40:27  <Zuu> Oh, yea, your right.
13:40:37  <Zuu> Changing the type to NWidgetBase should be okay?
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13:41:06  <Zuu> Since the specific implementation for that type never asserts.
13:41:34  <Zuu> And it seams to include the ->type member, which is all I need.
13:41:37  <Alberth> yes, that should work, as 'type' is a NWidgetBase property
13:41:49  <Alberth> s/seams/seems/ plz
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13:42:07  <dragonhorseboy> well I'm off for a while and btw ammler thanks a lot for that lumbermill thing of yours .. I'll really have to see about making space for it in my project ^_^
13:42:25  <dragonhorseboy> (umm I meant as in letting it work together .. not that it'll be bundled in)
13:42:46  <Ammler> well, the more important part is done by PhilSophus
13:42:53  <Alberth> Zuu: it never asserts since all widgets are of that base class :)
13:42:57  <Ammler> I just made the minigrf
13:43:00  <andythenorth> Ammler: I'm just teasing on the lumber mill btw :P
13:43:03  <dragonhorseboy> ok..well bye till later ;)
13:43:15  * dragonhorseboy throws a big saw at andythenorth and runs off
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13:43:22  <andythenorth>  but why not then farms that depend on the number of fields?
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13:43:54  <Alberth> then I want to be able to move fields
13:44:01  <scrooch> hello! :)
13:44:06  <Alberth> hello scrooch
13:44:22  <scrooch> sry i seemed to interrupted you
13:44:35  <Alberth> andythenorth: and/or create new ones :)
13:44:44  <Alberth> scrooch: that's normal in IRC :)
13:44:52  <andythenorth> Alberth: nice point
13:45:40  <scrooch> :)    Well I was wondering. Imagine a coal+plant on one side of the map and a coal+plant on the other side of the map.
13:46:00  <scrooch> It gives more money to transport the coal to the plant on the other side of the map
13:46:06  <Alberth> yes
13:46:07  <andythenorth> I think the answers going to be 'cargodist'
13:46:12  <andythenorth> answer's \s
13:46:32  <scrooch> but where is the limit on that? distant / earnings speaking
13:46:33  <Alberth> scrooch: you have a problem with making more money ?
13:46:34  <peter1138> 'cos you transported it further
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13:47:13  <Alberth> scrooch: transport costs time, and you get paid less the longer it takes to deliver the goods
13:47:41  <scrooch> No, I am wondering how it is possible that making more costs in transporting it further can be more beneficial to transporting "next doors" ...  There seems to be no punishment for transport ineffectiveness, only reward
13:47:49  <Alberth> scrooch: with fast enough vehicles, it pays to deliver the cargo as far as possible from the place where you got it
13:48:00  <andythenorth> scrooch: this is the 'economy' problem in TTD
13:48:07  <andythenorth> there are loads of forum threads about it
13:48:27  <andythenorth> and no solution (yet)
13:48:28  <scrooch> aahh ok, thats the term i didnt google for, economy problem :)
13:48:55  <scrooch> will check it in the forums then, thanks
13:49:18  <Alberth> scrooch:
13:49:23  <andythenorth> try  'realistic economy' or realistic payment model threads in OTTD suggestions and OTTD development
13:51:08  <andythenorth> scrooch:
13:51:46  * planetmaker likes the unrealistic games.
13:51:54  <Alberth> scrooch: mostly, people start dragging in more and more changes, until nobody understands it any more.
13:51:59  <planetmaker> Makes it easy to have fun building.
13:52:18  * Alberth agrees with planetmaker
13:52:38  <andythenorth> I have given up caring about that particular economy problem
13:52:45  <scrooch> thanks for the links guys :)   Interesting reads, unfortunately there dont seem to be easy solutions
13:53:24  <Alberth> scrooch: if it was easy, the problem would have been solved already. We saved this one for you :)
13:53:29  <planetmaker> not easy != impossible. But you might need good arguments and - probably worth more - the desire to write patches yourself :-)
13:53:30  <andythenorth> I do have a little project to improve specific parts of the economy :D
13:53:46  <andythenorth> it's newgrf, and rhymes with blurs
13:54:01  <planetmaker> fur? ;-)
13:54:21  <andythenorth> yes fur, we'll add a trapping industry to Arctic
13:54:30  <andythenorth> the entire economy will have one cargo
13:54:36  <andythenorth> that will solve all the economy problems
13:54:39  <planetmaker> new cargo scheme ;-)
13:54:49  <planetmaker> they trade furs with eachother
13:55:22  <planetmaker> ice bear fur, whale fur, fish fur, salmon fur, penguin fur, seal fur... :-P
13:55:59  <Alberth> nah, fur has a bad reputation.   use fish or so instead
13:56:05  <planetmaker> and then greenpeace comes and game over
13:56:24  <planetmaker> hehe, yes :-)
13:56:29  <scrooch> nice nice :)
13:56:30  <Alberth> hmm, a 'run from greenpeace' game :)
13:56:59  <planetmaker> produce sufficient fur as to muffle the outcries of greenpeace activists? ;-)
13:57:30  <peter1138> would making landscaping affect, and be restricted by, town authority rating help with 'persistent landscapers'?
13:57:36  <peter1138> *effect
13:58:04  <Alberth> in the tropical climate that becomes 'hide nuclear industry from the inspectors'
13:58:18  <planetmaker> lol
13:58:56  <planetmaker> peter1138: it would certainly add another interesting difficulty option. But I don't think it's a solution to too much terraforming
13:59:10  <planetmaker> especially as there are lot of tiles which have not authority attached to them
14:00:02  <planetmaker> The better solution to that end would be a maximum terraform size per click&drag or so. Or a fixed amount per month and company or player
14:00:19  <Alberth> I was thinking to allow landscaping only for non-bare ground tiles, ie allow only 1 tile leveling, then wait until it is grown again.
14:00:43  <planetmaker> Alberth: that'd be a pain even more ;-)
14:00:53  <planetmaker> Try to build a tunnel then in a plain
14:00:58  <andythenorth> is terraforming a huge issue on mp games?  I only play single player
14:01:26  <planetmaker> andythenorth: depends. Can be, if you don't like much TF
14:01:56  <planetmaker> in principle a player could gain quickly a bit money and then level the entire map.
14:02:06  <planetmaker> But I have seen it twice(?) in two years or so.
14:02:11  <andythenorth> I liked the idea of having some dirt 'in hand'
14:02:19  <andythenorth> so you have x tonnes of dirt
14:02:36  <Ammler> well, mostly be joining a abandon rich company
14:02:41  <peter1138> OpenConstructionTycoon
14:02:58  <andythenorth> lowering land gives you more dirt in hand, raising land costs dirt...
14:03:06  <andythenorth> dirt in hand can't go negative
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14:03:29  <Alberth> so I level a mountain first
14:03:38  <andythenorth> then you fill in the sea :)
14:03:45  <peter1138> wouldn't work cos you can do that
14:04:09  <peter1138> my solution so far is to play alone ;p
14:04:18  <andythenorth> just make it fricking expensive with a newgrf...?
14:04:21  <Zuu> Or not at all... :-p
14:04:23  <andythenorth> like Pikka's
14:04:54  <Alberth> andythenorth: that just delays the problem until later in the game
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14:05:28  <andythenorth> so it's an imponderable?
14:05:37  <Ammler> I liked the proposal, when you lower somewhere, you need to rise somewhere else :-)
14:05:48  <Alberth> maybe if 'dirt in the hand' must stay below some value. It increases with each change, and slowly decreases to 0 over time
14:06:02  <andythenorth> Alberth: surely root cause of the problem is...the game gives you too much money?
14:06:30  <zar> doesn't the town authority care?
14:06:41  <Alberth> andythenorth: that's easily solved:  payment = 0  :p
14:06:53  <Neon> Can I change the maximum size of stations on a dedicated server during the game?
14:06:59  <andythenorth> Alberth: again, newgrf :)
14:07:13  <Ammler> Neon: rcon set station_spread
14:07:29  <Alberth> andythenorth: yeah, those newgrf take over the entire game, we should stop that :p
14:07:39  <andythenorth> newgrf = 0?
14:07:49  <Alberth> rolf
14:07:53  <Alberth> s/rofl/
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14:07:56  <andythenorth> I like the dirt-in-hand idea, with a cap as suggested by Alberth
14:08:06  <andythenorth> this would just make terraforming very tedious
14:08:22  <andythenorth> lower 10 tiles, hit the cap, raise 10 tiles, lower 10, raise 10 etc
14:08:32  <roboboy> I user definable cap?
14:08:36  <Alberth> except when done occasionally which is what you want
14:08:47  <zar> and it would lead to _more_ terraforming by the players that actually play the game
14:08:54  <roboboy> *A
14:08:57  <zar> instead of trying to ruin it for others
14:09:06  <Ammler> andythenorth: when do you need to tf more than 10 tiles at once?
14:09:17  <Ammler> only for sabotage
14:09:30  <zar> or making a long railway in bumpy terrain
14:09:56  <Coco-Banana-Man> [15:04:35] <andythenorth> just make it fricking expensive with a newgrf...? <--- I usually play with base costs mod because I don't really like much terraforming in single player :)
14:10:02  <Ammler> or removing drag&drop tf
14:10:11  <Alberth> andythenorth: I'd make lowering also increase dirt in hand
14:10:13  <peter1138> zar, no, TA doesn't care about landscaping
14:10:13  <Ammler> or how is that called
14:10:37  <zar> peter1138: wouldn't that be a pretty natural limiter for it?
14:11:06  <peter1138> it might, at least around towns
14:11:24  <andythenorth> it wouldn't at sea for example
14:12:24  <andythenorth> Ammler: in case it wasn't clear, terraforming being tedious is a *good* thing :)
14:12:35  <Ammler> if tf one tile needs one click, it is solved, imo :-)
14:12:56  <zar> sometimes you need to terraform larger areas for legimate reasons
14:13:09  <zar> making it harder is a bad idea IMO
14:13:21  <Coco-Banana-Man> [15:03:16] <andythenorth> lowering land gives you more dirt in hand, raising land costs dirt... <--- would you need a half 'dirt' to build slopes then? :)
14:13:33  <Ammler> zar: as a rcon option
14:13:56  <zar> you could kick the terraformers with rcon too ;)
14:14:00  <andythenorth> Coco-Banana-Man: a unit of dirt is 1/4 of a tile?
14:14:01  <zar> solves the problem
14:14:13  <Ammler> zar: then it is mostly already too late
14:15:09  <Alberth> zar: whether TF of a larger area is legitimate depends on your playing style
14:15:42  <Alberth> Ammler: 1 click for each tile tf may work too, indeed
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14:16:06  <andythenorth> On a small map, I like the idea that you have to find somewhere to put / get more dirt
14:16:12  <andythenorth> On a large map, non issue
14:16:20  <zar> i just despise the idea of making play harder for everyone just to weed out a few idiots.
14:16:38  <Ammler> Alberth: or per tick/day
14:16:38  <Coco-Banana-Man> andythenorth: But wouldn't that mean you'd need 4 units of dirt to build a little hill (raising land once) on an entirely flat map then?
14:16:43  <zar> it's not right if everybody suffers from the idiocy of few.
14:17:01  <andythenorth> Coco-Banana-Man: yes
14:17:06  <Alberth> Ammler: nice idea
14:17:10  <Ammler> as the tile/click might be patchable by a clinet
14:18:55  <Ammler> hehe, then appears a redbox: "you already reached your terraforming quota, try in 4 days again" ;-)
14:19:09  <roboboy> lol
14:19:29  <Coco-Banana-Man> andythenorth: I like that idea with dirt :)
14:19:34  <roboboy> actualy lunb
14:19:39  <roboboy> blah
14:19:41  <roboboy> lub
14:19:45  <Coco-Banana-Man> But I would make it a bit different
14:19:45  <Alberth> Ammler: we could make it progressively longer :)
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14:20:15  <Coco-Banana-Man> Say, you're playing with base costs mod and terraforming costs around 60k$
14:20:15  <Ammler> hmm, actually, that is serious, I shouldn't use smilies
14:20:40  <Alberth> ie the solution to cracking a passwd by trying all words from the dictionary
14:20:44  <Ammler> Coco-Banana-Man: costs is no option imo
14:21:18  <Coco-Banana-Man> If you've got enough dirt to raise the mountain, I'd drop a half of the costs (so it costs ~30k$) only
14:21:22  <Ammler> it is too expensive at start and too cheap in a further game
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14:22:10  <Coco-Banana-Man> If you haven't got enough dirt, you've got to pay the full price...
14:22:30  <Ammler> is there another method to sabotage a MP game than bad terraforming?
14:22:48  <Coco-Banana-Man> I don't think it's too expensive in the start
14:23:12  <roboboy> yeah for ships raise land and build railway tracks on the raised land
14:23:42  <roboboy> and rvs blow em up with trains
14:23:56  <Coco-Banana-Man> But you have to think more about your lining
14:24:12  <Ammler> oh well, that needs a lot effort, so that should be possible, shouldn't?
14:24:24  <welshdragon> the only thing you can't do is kill trains and aircraft
14:24:30  <roboboy> im not sure if the old train sabotage method is still useable
14:24:36  <Coco-Banana-Man> But I agree that it becomes too cheap later...
14:24:49  <Ammler> you mean connecting on a station head of foreing company?
14:25:07  <Ammler> that isn't possible since I know
14:25:09  <roboboy> yeah
14:25:16  <Ammler> < 0.4.8
14:25:24  <welshdragon> it'd be good if terraforming was more expensive as time progressed
14:25:49  <Coco-Banana-Man> Just build buffers on the end of your stations, then it certainly won't be possible :P
14:25:59  <andythenorth> welshdragon: newgrf :)
14:26:07  <welshdragon> so in 1950 it costs ?200 to raise/lower the land
14:26:22  <Ammler> andythenorth: you can't change Action0 values per time
14:26:24  <welshdragon> and in 2050 it costs ?2 million ;)
14:26:54  <Coco-Banana-Man> 200 pounds? How cheap would it be in 1850 then? :P
14:27:13  <welshdragon> hmm
14:27:16  <welshdragon> same
14:27:18  <welshdragon> :P
14:28:05  <roboboy> ou can also block stations entirely is they dont have buffers or a building at the end
14:28:31  <Ammler> roboboy: as said, since around 0.4.8, not possible in openttd
14:28:48  <roboboy> hm
14:29:03  <roboboy> not blowing up though?
14:29:40  <Ammler> dunno, if it was ever possible
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14:33:57  <Coco-Banana-Man> Is SpComb around?
14:34:52  <Neon> Ammler: Thanks btw ^^ Is there a list of all changable settings during the game?
14:35:06  <Coco-Banana-Man> or anyone else who can tell me what the "Moving average Unit" and "Moving Average Length" are for?
14:35:13  <Coco-Banana-Man> +switches
14:36:43  <Ammler> Neon: wiki, just try, it will tell you, if not working...
14:36:55  <Ammler> or openttd.cfg
14:37:28  <Neon> Ammler: But not all settings are changable if the game is already running are they? Oo
14:37:34  <SpComb> Coco-Banana-Man: those are from cargodist
14:37:44  <Ammler> Neon: yes, but they will tell you
14:37:53  <Neon> ok
14:38:09  <SpComb> Coco-Banana-Man: dunno exactly, but they're related to how quickly the linkgraph figures react to changes
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14:40:01  <Ammler> Neon: it needs around 20 secs to change such a "forbidden" setting
14:40:04  <Coco-Banana-Man> hm, ok, thank you
14:40:18  <Ammler> just save it locally, change it and load it on the server again
14:41:11  <Ammler> on coop, we use a patch do that automatically, i.e. for magic_bulldozer
14:41:28  <Ammler> to*
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14:44:44  <Neon> Ammler: Sounds really nice :D
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14:45:50  <dragonhorseboy> back
14:46:35  <Ammler> let me check, if the patch is public...
14:47:15  <Ammler> SmatZ: ^
14:48:26  <planetmaker> I don't think
14:51:25  <planetmaker> btw... what reason is there that articulated RV don't overtake? I'm sure there is a good one, I just don't find it.
14:53:34  <frosch123> current overtaking code checks next two tiles for straight track, no junction, no other vehicles and such, and then assumes there is enough room. all those stuff cannot deal with longer vehicles
14:53:52  <frosch123> s/room/space/ maybe
14:55:06  <frosch123> of course the current code does not work very well for fast vehicles either :p
14:57:01  <Coco-Banana-Man> great, my NARS diesel locomotives can load limestone now :D
14:57:11  <dragonhorseboy> frosch...heh how fast? :)
14:57:23  <Coco-Banana-Man> (but that's still better than having no limestone at all...)
14:57:26  <dragonhorseboy> coco...limestone powered diesel? LOL :p
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14:57:48  <dragonhorseboy> sorry just had to play with your wordings
14:58:20  <Coco-Banana-Man> [15:57:43] <dragonhorseboy> coco...limestone powered diesel? LOL :p <--- nah, driver needs more money and sells it on his own :D
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14:58:42  <dragonhorseboy> limestone ... ECS construction right?
14:58:44  *** roboboy [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
14:58:46  <Coco-Banana-Man> yeah
14:58:54  <dragonhorseboy> ok
14:59:20  <dragonhorseboy> for a sec I thought you were talking about a diesel locomotive running on limestone till I realized what "can load" really meant ;)
14:59:27  <Coco-Banana-Man> as I said - having limestone is better than having a unusable regearing cargo...
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15:01:06  <Coco-Banana-Man> But I'm just wondering that I haven't had that idea earlier...
15:01:21  <dragonhorseboy> what idea?
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15:02:04  <Coco-Banana-Man> to load NARS before ECS so I can have limestone instead that (regearing) cargo
15:03:00  <Neon> Can I call the infaltion off?
15:03:06  <Neon> inflation*
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15:03:31  <dragonhorseboy> neon its right in the Advanced Settings or .. exactly what are you asking?
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15:04:36  <Neon> The game is already running and the setting aused the money to lose worth, but now I wonder if I can increase the money's worth again and call the inflation off. I already set inflation to false so it won't go on anymore.
15:04:41  <Ciprian> HI
15:04:42  <Neon> caused*
15:05:03  <Coco-Banana-Man> yes, you should be able to turn it off in-game
15:05:26  <Coco-Banana-Man> ah, ok, you did already ^^
15:06:11  <Neon> I wnat to have a deflation now you know?
15:06:14  <Neon> want*
15:06:33  <dragonhorseboy> :)
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15:07:51  <dragonhorseboy> hmm had to look up limestone on wiki for myself...interesting for rail transport
15:08:14  <planetmaker> <-- Alberth, if you have you hilly-route trains in one group, I think it is possible to treat them separately already now :-)
15:08:32  <planetmaker> So... I think groups and the concept of advanced replacement need not be mixed
15:11:13  <Alberth> in the sense that they already are :)
15:11:33  <Alberth> thanks for the correction
15:11:35  <planetmaker> well. But you do replacements in a selected group.
15:11:53  <planetmaker> :-)
15:12:34  <planetmaker> despite that there was once a nice thread on advanced groups in the forums with a good concept by Brianetta IIRC. But... LOTS of work
15:12:51  <Alberth> with 2 windows, it may get a bit complicated to understand what you are doing though
15:12:58  <andythenorth> signed FF -1 or 0?
15:13:14  <Alberth> -1
15:13:21  <Alberth> ~n + 1   :)
15:14:12  <Alberth> planetmaker: I never read about advanced groups yet, perhaps in the future :)
15:14:33  <peter1138> n - 256   :)
15:14:41  <Alberth> I was thinking that :)
15:15:03  <andythenorth> shame grfcodec can't deal with negative escapes
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15:15:43  * Alberth mumbles something about an open source project accepting patches
15:15:49  <Neon> Well, is it possible to reset all prices to default?
15:16:07  <planetmaker> hahaha @ Alberth
15:16:41  <planetmaker> I found that posting pretty amusing...
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15:17:46  <Alberth> Neon: no afaik
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15:17:54  <dragonhorseboy> heh
15:18:02  <planetmaker> reset_economy maybe?
15:18:18  <planetmaker> or was that a non-trunk patch?
15:22:54  <Alberth> there is reset_company, but that does something else most likely :)
15:23:05  <Ammler> just hit apply in newgrf window
15:25:03  <scrooch> hey guys this beginner has another 2 questions about this picture:
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15:25:48  <dragonhorseboy> scrooch what kind of picture is it? its taking a LONG time to even load a quarter at all
15:26:06  <Ammler> scrooch: use ctrl-(or alt-)printscreen
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15:26:25  <Ammler> hmm
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15:26:49  <dragonhorseboy> hey fjb
15:26:52  <scrooch> hey guys, two other beginners questions here in this picture :)
15:27:07  <scrooch> i dont understand the explanations on how the signals work
15:27:08  <dragonhorseboy> scrooch quit spamming if you can't stay for an answer? :p
15:27:14  <dragonhorseboy> ah heh
15:27:31  <scrooch> sry the connection was lost :-/   what did i miss?
15:27:53  <AFDerrick> I have a question.  Has anyone played Ex's City Mania?  How do you setup a storehouse to hold water/food/goods/etc?
15:27:55  <dragonhorseboy> scrooch next time take a proper screenshot (its in ottd's toolbar) .. that kind of big screenshot isn't forum-friendly anyway ...
15:28:27  <dragonhorseboy> and scrooch you're doing it wrong ..
15:28:29  <scrooch> right, thanks for pointing out the s-c button in ttd :)
15:28:40  <dragonhorseboy> scrooch .. you're doing it completely wrong there anyway ;)
15:29:13  <scrooch> i'd like to have a red sign before the crossing in front of the stations for entering trains when both slots are full, but not when one is still available
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15:29:17  <dragonhorseboy> 1. the white boarded signal is supposed to be a normal one-way signal ... and replace the two normal 2-way signals in front of platforms with that very white-boarded signal ...
15:29:33  <dragonhorseboy> and lastly remove that piece of track connecting the two lines together in front of depot .. unless you want mess up with the signals
15:30:16  <dragonhorseboy> because if one train is waiting at the entry signal .. no trains inside the station can even leave in that sense
15:30:18  <Ammler> uwe's signal guide might be worth to read for you
15:30:29  <scrooch> aii yeah, forget the several signals you see - they were just the final experiment... I only understand the 'block signals'  so far :(
15:30:48  <dragonhorseboy> ammler.. uwe?
15:31:35  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: the best guide about signals from TTD
15:31:38  <Ammler> for*
15:32:12  <dragonhorseboy> hmm there's too many uwe's online .. got a link?
15:33:00  <Ammler>
15:33:09  <scrooch> ok i'll check that now, thank you Ammler and dragonhorseboy
15:33:33  <scrooch> and my 2nd question, unrelated to signals
15:33:42  <Alberth> 38
15:33:44  <scrooch> that station is to far away from goods
15:33:56  <scrooch> i made a truck-station against it
15:34:21  <scrooch> to pick up any delivered goods in the station (i set up a train to deliver goods)..... Does that work
15:34:37  <scrooch> because i'd like to city to have goods
15:34:52  <Coco-Banana-Man> hmm
15:35:38  <scrooch> actually the 0% you see, is a truck waiting to pick up goods
15:35:38  <Coco-Banana-Man> will cargoes change trains on a station that doesn't accept them (in CargoDist)?
15:35:49  <Coco-Banana-Man> -e
15:36:12  <scrooch> yeah, thats it Coco-Banana-Man :)
15:36:13  <Zuu> Yep, that is part of the idea with CargoDist/Dest.
15:36:39  <Coco-Banana-Man> ok :)
15:36:51  <scrooch> is it possible to loop the same goods around and around with endless profits then?
15:37:16  * Coco-Banana-Man tries building a passenger station in the middle of nowhere for them to change trains then :D
15:37:28  <Alberth> no, you get paid only when delivering the cargo to the final destination
15:37:39  <scrooch> alright :)
15:37:45  <Alberth> Coco-Banana-Man: a feeder system
15:38:20  <dragonhorseboy> don't I recall that newer versions of patch/ottd now finally lets your trains shows "profits" even although they're only transfering off loads than actually unloading it?
15:38:42  <De_Ghosty> i think it's possible profit
15:38:46  <Alberth> those are virtual profits
15:38:53  <dragonhorseboy> alberth yeah that
15:39:02  <Coco-Banana-Man> will I need transfer flag on that station then or will they do automatically?
15:39:26  <dragonhorseboy> alberth its one thing I actually loved finally.. not having a train thats always showing up bleeding red nonstop in the train list even although its supposed to transfer off profitable cargos
15:39:38  <Alberth> Coco-Banana-Man: 1 direction: no loading and transfer instead of unload
15:39:52  <Ciprian> HEI
15:39:58  <Ciprian> I have an question
15:40:09  <dragonhorseboy> btw I do kinda wish ottd Orders menus were fixed
15:40:11  <Ciprian> Where I can find the music pack for OPENTTD
15:40:13  <Rubidium> hi, I have an answer: 42
15:40:27  <dragonhorseboy> its always a bit confusing trying to figure out why I keep getting 'transfer and take cargo' when the actual option I WANTED is not as so obvious
15:40:38  <Ciprian> Where I can find the music pack for OPENTTD?
15:40:39  <Ciprian> Where I can find the music pack for OPENTTD?
15:40:46  <planetmaker> yes, we can read
15:40:46  * dragonhorseboy whacks ciprian to stop spamming pls
15:40:47  <Coco-Banana-Man> which music pack?
15:40:52  <Rubidium> Ciprian: there is no free music pack yet, you'll have to copy that from the transport tycoon CD
15:40:56  <planetmaker> ^ that's the answer
15:41:15  <Rubidium> or more precisely, the Windows version of Transport Tycoon Deluxe
15:41:15  <dragonhorseboy> rubidium .. or opensfx if you have the version supported
15:41:30  <Rubidium> dragonhorseboy: keep dreaming...
15:41:31  <Coco-Banana-Man> OpenSFX are sounds only, no music
15:41:32  <Alberth> dragonhorseboy: sound effects != music
15:42:00  <Rubidium> I think my new years resolution is backfiring ginormously
15:42:20  <dragonhorseboy> heh rubidium poor you
15:42:39  <Coco-Banana-Man> [16:39:55] <Alberth> Coco-Banana-Man: 1 direction: no loading and transfer instead of unload <--- And on passenger trains where they may just change onto another line or stay on that train?
15:43:09  <AFDerrick> Does anyone know how to setup the storehouse for tropical maps like in Ex's City Mania Server?
15:43:28  <dragonhorseboy> storehouse? is this some industry grf?
15:44:01  <AFDerrick> I can't find it in the grf's anywhere.
15:44:06  <Alberth> Coco-Banana-Man: for each train you can set load and unload seperately. It is however for all cargo on the train. Cargo d*st is more advanced in that respect
15:44:25  <AFDerrick> its for if you deliver food/water/etc to a city it will store the extra supplies it doesn't use that month.
15:44:35  <Coco-Banana-Man> I'm talking about how CargoDist will handle that ;)
15:44:56  <Rubidium> AFDerrick: that sounds like some custom modifications to OpenTTD
15:45:33  <AFDerrick> Rubidium: Aw snap, I was fearful it might be but thinking maybe there was a setting I hadn't seen somewhere.  It's a very nice feature.
15:45:48  <Alberth> Coco-Banana-Man: ok :)    Afaik it is all done by the program, you don't need to set anything  (but I hardly play that version, so not entirely sure)
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15:48:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18686 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix [FS#3470]: in some cases _sl.chs is used when not initialised. As _sl.chs always refers to a single table when initialised replace _sl.chs with the actual table
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15:51:40  <scrooch> alright guys so from the openttd wiki:
15:51:50  <scrooch> this is exactly what i was after
15:52:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18687 /trunk/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
15:52:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Add [NoAI]: AIEngine::IsBuildable to check if you can build a certain engine.
15:52:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: AIEngine::IsValidEngine will now also return true when you have at least one vehicle of that type even if you can't build it anymore.
15:52:48  <Alberth> Zuu: please test a patch before submitting. Assigning a constant is not going to work.
15:53:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18688 /trunk/src/saveload/ (saveload.cpp saveload.h): -Cleanup: remove some unused code/constants
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15:54:07  <Eddi|zuHause> gnarf... svn client too old for the working copy...
15:54:38  <Alberth> yes, using different svn versions on one working copy is dangerous :)
15:55:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i tried suse 11.2, but went back to 11.0 because the fglrx driver didn't work
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15:56:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18689 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: move the looping over chunkhandlers code to a macro
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16:05:14  <Zuu> Alberth: New patch with const problem fixed. Sorry about that, I shall try to remember to compile things before submitting next time.
16:05:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18690 /trunk/src/highscore_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3469]: some keys that open windows that want to be located relatively to the toolbars/statusbar could cause a crash when in one of the end game screens
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16:15:13  <andythenorth> oh dear, now I have to work with tile corner heights again :|
16:24:13  <andythenorth> long shot: anyone have any nfo for providing custom foundations?
16:25:18  <andythenorth> I can't even figure out pseudo code for it :|
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16:25:53  <andythenorth> (the problem is detecting which of the many possible slope combinations a tile has)
16:26:42  <andythenorth> there are 12 combinations, I need some kind of decision tree
16:26:49  <andythenorth> I suck at this kind of thing :P
16:27:30  <frosch123> no tree, just take the four/five slope bits and use them in one varact2
16:28:14  <andythenorth> oh, that's nicer
16:32:54  <scrooch> alright guys, i got the presignal thing now
16:33:00  <scrooch> a solution to the next?
16:33:10  <sawtooth> it's so cold i think my internet pipes have just about frozen
16:33:53  <scrooch> he problem is the trains cant leave because the one from the depot is blocking
16:34:14  <scrooch> well, the signal on the other side of the depot track is blocking to be specific i think
16:34:43  <scrooch> .. because the depotrails is connected to the rail going east
16:35:22  <scrooch> let me make a better picture
16:36:04  <scrooch>
16:36:28  <dragonhorseboy> scrooch what did I tell you about removing the depot tracks?
16:38:07  <scrooch> i missed that ^^ lemme check
16:38:29  <scrooch> <dragonhorseboy> and lastly remove that piece of track connecting the two lines together in front of depot .. unless you want mess up with the signals
16:38:33  <scrooch> got it hehe
16:39:24  <dragonhorseboy> ;)
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16:41:38  <welshdragon> scrooch: move the depot 4 tiles right
16:41:53  <andythenorth> industry tile var 60
16:41:54  <andythenorth>
16:42:05  <andythenorth> makes my brain hurt
16:42:32  <dragonhorseboy> lol I can see why that would
16:42:34  <andythenorth> I want to use *just* the slope data from it
16:44:26  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth .. that would be ss bits?
16:45:03  <dragonhorseboy> I'm going for now anyway :p
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16:46:13  <scrooch> andythenorth: 4 to the right? so trains pick up speed or?
16:47:32  <andythenorth> frosch123: could I beg some nfo help :D
16:47:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18691 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (7 files): -Change [NoAI]: cleanup some errors messages and add a few to AIWaypoint
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16:49:17  <frosch123> andythenorth: 60 00 00 1F, var 60 param 0, shift 0, and 1f
16:49:33  <Coco-Banana-Man> <--- ok, it works like I wanted :D
16:49:59  <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks
16:50:15  <frosch123> <- then those numbers in the varact2
16:50:33  <andythenorth> hey that's a handy png
16:50:41  <andythenorth> I've just drawn that on paper :)
16:50:54  <frosch123> :p
16:50:55  <andythenorth> can I access var 60 with 81 (as I only want a byte), or do I need to use 89
16:51:10  <frosch123> byte is enough
16:52:03  <Eddi|zuHause> why is that image "application/octet-stream"?
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17:09:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18692 /trunk/src/waypoint_cmd.cpp: -Fix: after a company went bankrupt it was impossible to build a new waypoint close to a deleted one until the grey sign was gone
17:13:46  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: because letting a remote server decide how you want to see a sequence of bytes is a bad idea?
17:16:19  <andythenorth> frosch123: slope code works.  epic win, thanks
17:16:25  <Ciprian>  hey
17:16:32  <frosch123> :)
17:16:47  <Ciprian>  how I can transfer money to another company??
17:17:10  *** heffer [] has quit [Quit: heffer]
17:17:16  <frosch123> enable it in advanced settings, open the company window of the other company, and click the appropiate button
17:17:30  <Ciprian> what button?
17:17:31  <frosch123> hmm, or is it in the client list?
17:20:22  <Zuu> Client list, right mouse button
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17:23:35  <Ciprian> how I can transfer money to another company??
17:23:37  <Ciprian> how I can transfer money to another company??
17:23:56  <Yexo> is reading that hard? <Zuu> Client list, right mouse button
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17:29:56  <Ciprian> where is client list?
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17:30:35  <frosch123> ah well, are you actually playing multiplayer? or singleplayer?
17:30:35  <Yexo> it's only available in multiplayer games, under the company icon I think
17:31:18  <frosch123> in singleplayer you have to use the 'bank' to transfer money
17:31:30  * Alberth waits for Ciprian to ask another two times
17:31:43  * Zuu lols on an overenthuastic vim movie
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17:38:41  <Ciprian> in singleplayer
17:38:50  <Ciprian> and where is the 'bank'
17:38:55  <Ciprian> frosch123
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17:40:11  <Zuu> Ciprian: You can't transfer money in single player.
17:40:21  <Zuu> You can cheat money to any company though.
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17:42:02  <frosch123> Ciprian: press ctrl-alt-c, decrease your money by 10M, switch to other company, increase money by 10M and switch back
17:42:14  <Ciprian> ahh
17:42:19  <Ciprian> I know cheats
17:42:32  <Ciprian> another question
17:42:35  <Ciprian> cheats are
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17:42:51  <Ciprian> cheats are in multiplayer?
17:42:54  <Yexo> no
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17:51:10  <Ciprian> how I can create an server?
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17:57:41  <Ciprian>  how I can create an server?
17:57:41  <Ciprian>  how I can create an server?
17:57:42  <Ciprian>  how I can create an server?
17:57:57  <sawtooth> Ciprian: please stop repeating questions
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18:00:56  <Luukland> Ciprian? OS please
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18:03:29  <Ciprian> Microsoft Vista
18:04:35  <Luukland> Ok
18:04:45  <Luukland> Make another shortcut of opentt.exe
18:04:48  <Luukland> * openttd.exe
18:04:59  <Luukland> put it on desktop or wherever you want
18:05:27  <Luukland> now right click -> properties
18:05:54  <Luukland> -> target -> "C:\Chinese fish\openttd.exe" -D
18:05:56  <Luukland> add the -D
18:06:20  <Luukland> and run it
18:11:15  <andythenorth> I've never created snow-versions of building sprites
18:11:23  <andythenorth> I don't suppose there's any hidden magic?
18:11:58  <frosch123> it's easy, just draw a white hill. you only need one sprite for all buildings :p
18:12:02  <andythenorth> ah
18:12:06  <andythenorth> I see
18:12:12  <andythenorth> I was hoping for something cunning that avoids creating varaction 2 for every single tile...
18:12:29  <andythenorth> I can see how to apply your method though
18:12:31  <andythenorth> :P
18:12:35  <frosch123> hehe, you are going to have a lot of fun with snowy custom foundations :p
18:12:49  <andythenorth> I doubt it somehow :|
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18:23:15  <andythenorth> fishing harbours: done
18:23:16  <andythenorth>
18:23:17  <andythenorth> :)
18:25:07  <peter1138> RELEASE!
18:25:07  <peter1138> ;)
18:25:25  <peter1138> that looks fricking awesome
18:25:33  <Alberth> andythenorth: looks great!
18:25:34  <Yexo> ooh, very nice work andythenorth :)
18:25:39  <andythenorth> yeah, nowhere to transport fish yet though :)
18:25:57  <scrooch> looks good :)
18:26:02  <Alberth> they all get eaten before they reach the shore :)
18:26:14  <scrooch> how about some fish(nets) on the grey deck?
18:26:26  <andythenorth> scrooch: maybe in 2011
18:26:54  <andythenorth> we're leaving the extra detail out until all 60 industries are drawn and coded
18:26:55  <andythenorth> ;)
18:27:23  <scrooch> ahh okay :)  its good looking so far anyway :)
18:27:27  <andythenorth> peter1138: hg checkout here:
18:27:32  <andythenorth> then make install...
18:29:09  <peter1138> later maybe
18:29:18  <peter1138> i am pondering a 'always make railtype available' flag
18:29:41  <peter1138> or perhaps 'make railtype availability dependent on railtype x'
18:29:59  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: in what way would that be used?
18:30:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r18693 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Doc: Add some doxygen comments to smallmap code.
18:30:36  <peter1138> only one reason i can think of at the moment ;p
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18:31:30  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: you mean like "do not make availability depend on presence of vehicle models"?
18:31:47  <peter1138> yeah
18:32:09  <peter1138> hmm, two uses actually, although one can be done without it
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18:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause> something like combined catenary and 3rd rail, where never a vehicle would be designed to be used specifically with this type
18:34:03  <Eddi|zuHause> so you'd say "railtype is available when both railtype X and railtype Y are available"
18:34:16  <peter1138> yeah
18:34:36  <Eddi|zuHause> you could maybe make a full callback for that...
18:35:05  <peter1138> possibly
18:35:16  <peter1138> call it when a new vehicle is available
18:35:18  <peter1138> hmm
18:35:22  <peter1138> better than a flag eh?
18:35:31  <peter1138> although
18:35:40  <Eddi|zuHause> anything that the newgrf authors can start to abuse ;)
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18:37:49  <Eddi|zuHause> random thought: are the "compatible" and "powered on" flags be defined by the railtype or the vehicle?
18:38:11  <peter1138> railtype
18:38:38  <Eddi|zuHause> so railtype A says: if vehicle has railtype B, it is compatible with A
18:38:50  <peter1138> something like that
18:39:06  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, that sounds sensible ;)
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18:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause> but concerning rack railway: some rack railway vehicles can run on conventional rail, but some not.
18:40:37  <Eddi|zuHause> and they need some kind of callback, to change the tractive effort when switching between railtypes
18:41:20  <andythenorth> sounds bonkers complicated :o
18:41:30  <andythenorth> but fun
18:42:44  <Ciprian> hey
18:43:05  <Ciprian> where I can build an farm in arctic world?
18:43:14  <Yexo> below the snowline I think
18:43:34  <Ciprian> I try to build and I can`t
18:43:52  <Yexo> I try to get the error you got but I can't
18:44:04  <Yexo> s/get/guess/
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18:45:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18694 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 7 changes by arnau
18:45:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
18:45:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 10 changes by 2rB
18:45:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 4 changes by silver_777
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18:47:40  <Ciprian> is there any romanian
18:47:41  <Ciprian> ?
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18:52:25  <sawtooth> should also cover the dock in seagull droppings :)
18:53:15  <scrooch> lol
18:53:36  <scrooch> and some pole-axes
18:53:56  <scrooch> with some seals
18:54:21  <scrooch> sry i though seagull=seal ^^  *no im not romanian
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18:55:21  <andythenorth> could the fishing boats be animated?
18:55:47  <Alberth> catch a fish?
18:56:44  <Alberth> getting lifted out of the water by the submarine?
18:56:54  <andythenorth> sinking?
18:57:26  <Alberth> nah, that's not a positive event
18:57:49  <Alberth> people swimming around the boat?
18:58:08  <andythenorth> no people in the game.  them's the my view
18:58:12  <murr4y> surrounded by sharks?
18:58:16  <andythenorth> I like the strangely empty world...
18:58:25  <andythenorth> like lego with no lego people
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19:01:29  <Alberth> a bow wave?
19:02:45  <welshdragon> hmm
19:03:07  <welshdragon> i've noticed that ttdpatch now has Cargo Destinations in trunk
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19:09:30  <peter1138> has done for a while
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19:32:23  <Mithras> Hello folks
19:33:29  * Guest338 sighs
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19:33:54  *** ladyhawk is now known as LadyHawk
19:35:25  * LadyHawk fixed her nickserv access list
19:35:54  <Mithras> ^5
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19:40:51  <Mithras> anyone else on the 10year arctic server?
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20:12:55  <andythenorth> hmm...setting mini map industry colours....I could do with some kind of hex colour chart :|
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20:15:31  <frosch123> isn't that the usual palette?
20:15:50  <Alberth> yes (at least in the small map :) )
20:15:53  <frosch123> oh, i guess you use dos colours by default
20:16:27  <andythenorth> yup, it's dos.  think my photoshop palette is the win version
20:17:10  <andythenorth> hmm
20:17:19  <frosch123> ttdviewer uses dos palette :p
20:17:23  <andythenorth> there's got to be a way to make the mini-map industry view look better :|
20:17:34  <andythenorth> it's my fault for coding so many industries :o
20:20:25  <Alberth> andythenorth: that's why I made the heightmap optional in it
20:20:37  <andythenorth> grey land would look better
20:20:37  <frosch123> <- i knew i had a screenshot of the dos palette
20:21:15  <Alberth> isn't paper-something industry grey?
20:21:47  <Alberth> green-ish for land seems a logical choice
20:22:19  <andythenorth> green has some horrible contrast issues
20:22:24  <andythenorth> when combined with other colours
20:22:50  <Alberth> ok, you're the expert :)
20:22:51  <andythenorth> I don't suppose the mini-map colour has any newgrf hooks?
20:23:12  <Alberth> nope, nicely hard-coded :)
20:23:19  <andythenorth> oh :o
20:23:31  <frosch123> what kind of hook? for the grass colour?
20:23:34  <Alberth> except the industry colours of course :)
20:24:09  <andythenorth> yes the grass colour
20:25:11  <andythenorth>
20:25:30  <Alberth>    tile-type -> colour mapping
20:25:55  <Alberth> and 15 lines down another one
20:26:23  <Alberth> first column is colour of 4 pixels, 2nd column is transparency
20:27:29  <andythenorth> purple is better...
20:29:03  <Alberth> line 319 defines the 'grass' colour 0x54 or the heightmap
20:29:35  <frosch123> [21:26] <andythenorth> <- hehe, it just became different-greenish some days ago
20:30:43  <Alberth> frosch123: optional ;)
20:30:47  <frosch123> oh, Terkhen already wrote that :)
20:30:53  <Rubidium> stupid linkedin...
20:31:07  <frosch123> what, more spam?
20:31:09  <Terkhen> I can see all industries with the purple color! :D
20:31:37  <Alberth> the professional network with a no-reply email address :p
20:31:40  <Rubidium> frosch123: not quite, but apparantly by viewing any of their webpages you have a legally binding agreement with them
20:31:46  * Terkhen never finds iron ore mines, food processors and the like
20:31:59  <andythenorth> oh balls.  that new map makes things worse for me :P
20:32:14  <frosch123> hehe, i looked it up in wiki and decided to not explore it further :p
20:32:51  <Rubidium> frosch123: well... now I've sent a kinda ranting email to them to ask to cancel that agreement
20:33:09  <andythenorth> that new map's in a nightly...right?
20:33:20  <Alberth> andythenorth: grey looks alien-ish to me
20:33:23  <Rubidium> andythenorth: yes
20:33:24  <Alberth> andythenorth: yes
20:33:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "he ordered on the internet a penis enhancement device..."
20:33:52  <Alberth> andythenorth: the dark-blue is a bit too much blue :)
20:34:02  <Eddi|zuHause> "... and they sent him a magnifying glass"
20:34:13  <andythenorth> and I now have to build mac nightlies myself?
20:34:47  <andythenorth> (can't find them on
20:35:13  <Rubidium> wow... after a mere 169 hours you are the FIRST to notice that mac binaries aren't built anymore
20:35:21  <Rubidium> congratulations
20:35:48  <andythenorth> uhm, thanks :D
20:36:12  <Rubidium> but yes, you have to compile them yourself
20:37:35  <Rubidium> maybe petert is interested in building them for you
20:38:27  <andythenorth> thanks...err...I'll just try building one instead
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20:39:10  <andythenorth> mac compile failed
20:39:35  <andythenorth>
20:40:13  <andythenorth> nvm, another day
20:41:47  <Rubidium> that looks pretty much like a patch/svn update reject
20:42:27  <andythenorth> it's probably something I've done
20:43:05  <andythenorth> I have trouble understanding how to revert patches, I've followed web instructions, but I'm not convinced it's reverted properly
20:43:17  <andythenorth> I'd checkout again, but it's ~2GB :o
20:43:34  <frosch123> andythenorth: svn status
20:43:47  <Terkhen> you should checkout only the trunk folder
20:43:48  <Rubidium> 2 GB for a checkout?
20:44:19  <andythenorth> I think I checked out the whole repo...
20:44:36  <Alberth> that could be 2GB :)
20:44:45  <andythenorth> 2.57GB on my disk
20:44:51  <peter1138> you just want /trunk
20:44:54  <andythenorth> dunno why I did that, my svn skills are weak
20:45:26  <Alberth> andythenorth: actually 2.75GB/2 since svn makes a local copy of each file
20:45:40  <Eddi|zuHause> check out only trunk next time
20:45:55  <Alberth> andythenorth: as frosch123 suggested, start with svn status
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20:47:13  <Alberth> or if you want to revert everything    svn revert -R .    from the root of your working copy (and then 'svn status'  to check)
20:48:46  * frosch123 assumes is even more useless since 1.6
20:48:58  * andythenorth follows instructions
20:50:43  <Terkhen> what kind of colour format is this? MKCOLOUR(0x5A5A5A5A)
20:51:19  <peter1138> palette index * 4
20:51:37  <Alberth> Terkhen: 4 pixels 0x5A
20:51:59  <Alberth> Directly blitted into the video memory
20:52:01  <andythenorth> is boost a dependency for compiling now?
20:52:07  <peter1138> no
20:52:08  <Terkhen> okay, thanks
20:52:24  <andythenorth> oh poop
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20:53:10  <Alberth> Terkhen: MKCOLOUR() does little/big endian shuffles
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20:59:22  * andythenorth (mac compile worked)
21:00:56  <andythenorth> no new map though :o
21:01:25  * andythenorth silly mistake
21:03:19  <andythenorth> hmm..not a silly mistake
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21:06:38  <Alberth> andythenorth: there is an additional button next to the industry enable/disable buttons
21:08:46  <andythenorth> I see it :)
21:09:13  <andythenorth> lovely :)
21:09:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18695 /extra/website/ (frontpage/ templates/footer.html): [Website] -Update: another year has passed
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21:10:02  * andythenorth ponders what to do with mini-map colours now yellow and grey have joined the 'invisible' list :P
21:10:14  * andythenorth suspects the answer lies in that button :)
21:11:43  <Eddi|zuHause> where do years go oce you used them?
21:11:53  <Eddi|zuHause> *once
21:12:31  <Rubidium> oblivion? forgetfulness?
21:12:59  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: they are saved forever in the svn archive
21:13:04  <Rubidium> oh Lethe might be a nice one :)
21:14:14  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... when was the last time you had 10cm of snow on one day?
21:14:37  <Rubidium> about two weeks ago
21:14:47  <Terkhen> never
21:15:25  <Rubidium> and for the fun of it... we had officially a "white christmas", but the snow was mostly gone
21:15:53  <Terkhen> the palette index refers to the _palettes vector at table/palettes.h?
21:16:04  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it was the same here... but it wasn't 10cm, more like 2cm before christmas
21:16:51  <Alberth> Terkhen: I used this:
21:16:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: so, did you ever see snow at all? :p
21:17:17  <Terkhen> Alberth: thanks, that's better :)
21:17:18  <Alberth> and in my webbrowser, some of the colours are animated :)
21:17:18  <Rubidium> but... Madrid has like more snow that the Netherlands
21:17:35  <Rubidium> so apparantly you don't live in Madrid
21:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause> madrid has kinda high altitude
21:19:39  <Terkhen> we have 1.5 meters of snow at 30 km right now, but in Granada almost never snows
21:20:32  <Eddi|zuHause> granada is south coast
21:20:39  <Alberth> Terkhen:  has yellow boxes around the standard industry colours, unfortunately, my editor seems to have killed the animation.
21:21:23  <Terkhen> Alberth: thanks :)
21:21:45  <Alberth> red boxes are the current contour colours
21:21:50  <andythenorth> that's might useful to me as well :)
21:22:10  <andythenorth> mighty /s
21:22:52  <Eddi|zuHause> you really use "mighty" that way?
21:23:31  <andythenorth> apparently I just did
21:23:54  <Alberth> it doesn't sound wrong to me
21:23:58  <andythenorth> hmmm....if an industry accepts 3 random cargos from a possible 6, that's annoying, right?
21:24:31  <Alberth> most players would tend to agree :)
21:24:49  <Eddi|zuHause> no, not wrong, i just did never hear it used that way in english. it's used in german in the same way, though
21:25:12  <andythenorth> I have one industry that I just keep wanting to randomise cargos for.   I think it's a bad idea though
21:25:17  <NeosaD> «Terkhen» are you from spain?
21:25:27  <NeosaD> ups, sorry colors
21:25:43  <Terkhen> NeosaD: yes
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21:25:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i think colour codes are stripped in this channel
21:26:07  <NeosaD> yo soy de Barcelona ^^
21:28:09  <Terkhen> :)
21:30:25  <peter1138> :s
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21:30:58  <Xaroth> huh?
21:31:04  <Rubidium> is that 'disused' rail?
21:31:14  <Terkhen> I have set the background colour to one of the animated colours... I can distinguish all industries now, but I think my eyes will bleed if I use this for long
21:31:14  <Xaroth> destruction?
21:31:24  <dragonhorseboy> ...??
21:31:27  <peter1138> or would be if i could draw better
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21:32:20  <scrooch> hi
21:32:34  * dragonhorseboy wonders what xaroth is going on about now
21:32:53  <Xaroth> dragonhorseboy: check peter1138's link
21:33:00  <Xaroth> it clearly states Railway Destruction
21:33:07  <dragonhorseboy> what link?
21:33:12  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: how was it done in the "grass on rails" patch?
21:33:15  *** sparrL2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:33:15  <Xaroth> -22:30:25- [@peter1138]: :s
21:33:15  <scrooch> i'd like to make this: Roundabout with path based signals (PBS)
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21:33:32  <scrooch> i have this:
21:33:40  <scrooch> what did i make wrong?
21:33:48  <Xaroth> er
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21:33:52  <Xaroth> the fact you didn't use PBS?
21:33:54  <Alberth> Terkhen: better blink the industry?
21:33:56  <scrooch> this is what i want
21:33:59  <Xaroth> you used pre/exit signals
21:34:29  <Alberth> Terkhen: I was thinking not to make disabled industry disappear, but use some standard colour eg darkred
21:34:46  <Xaroth> scrooch: oh, and look at the signals exiting the roundabout
21:34:46  <scrooch> yeah, the wikipedia doesnt cleary mention... Xaroth I dont understand which signals to use then
21:34:47  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, pass
21:34:55  <dragonhorseboy> peter...I think I actually like the brown ballast but some lightly-rottening ties would look a bit better
21:35:08  <dragonhorseboy> scrooch .. where does it not clearly mention?
21:35:30  <Terkhen> Alberth: that would help me, I could disable all brown industries to be able to find them
21:35:30  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, ah, that leaves more of the track intact
21:35:57  <scrooch>   At the 2nd picture... The article leaves out what signals exactly to use
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21:36:19  <dragonhorseboy> scrooch did you not read? it clearly says PBS
21:36:49  <scrooch> yes i did read that... It is that im a beginner, I took that website as reference...  That article assumes you already know PBS
21:36:55  <scrooch> ... which i do not yet :)
21:37:33  <Alberth> Terkhen: colour 37, 39, and 55
21:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> scrooch: then add a clearer hint to the Path Signals page
21:38:12  <dragonhorseboy> scrooch..well if you don't even know why there's more than one signal icon in the signal construction toolbar even after clicking then .. well .. I dunno sorry
21:38:26  <dragonhorseboy> .. I meant .. rightclick
21:39:10  <Alberth> scrooch:
21:39:43  <scrooch>   ah i got it :)  Thanks guys that wasnt to hard
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21:40:18  <Alberth> but as Eddi|zuHause suggested, plz improve the wiki at points you find unclear.
21:40:40  <scrooch> yeah well im not registered there unfortunately
21:40:43  <Alberth> we are all too familiar with the program to notice such problems
21:40:53  <scrooch> and i guess id have to make references everywhere
21:41:00  <Terkhen> Alberth: thanks, I'll try to write a patch for my own use that changes these colours to something else
21:41:03  <frosch123> night
21:41:07  <Alberth> night
21:41:10  <andythenorth> night
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21:41:16  <dragonhorseboy> bye frosch
21:41:18  <dragonhorseboy> blah :S
21:41:30  <andythenorth> Terkhen: that can be done with newgrf....
21:41:38  <Alberth> 12 seconds, that's long :)
21:41:53  * dragonhorseboy wonders if alberth has more life than only a single irc window ;)
21:42:41  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I know, but using a newgrf would force all people playing with me to use strange colours
21:42:45  <Alberth> lucky enough, you guys don't show up until it is afternoon/evening :)
21:42:55  <dragonhorseboy> heh
21:43:07  <andythenorth> Terkhen: that makes sense :)
21:43:19  <Alberth> or rather, start discussing interesting topics :)
21:43:26  <Terkhen> besides, even coding simple newgrf is still very difficult for me
21:43:43  <andythenorth> :P
21:43:47  <andythenorth> easy peasy
21:43:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i presume it's not possible to do as a static newgrf?
21:44:24  <Alberth> Terkhen: It is a valid point that should be handled by the program I think. I just don't know how atm however.
21:44:50  <andythenorth> Terkhen: are you r-g colour blind?
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21:46:34  <Alberth> Terkhen: src/table/build_industry.h  contains the standard industry settings, eg line 1380 says 55 for the iron ore mine (colour 55)
21:47:17  <Alberth> good night
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21:47:21  <Terkhen> yes, but not fully... I can distinguish clear reds and green easily, I only confuse dark tones
21:47:25  <Terkhen> thanks again, Alberth :)
21:47:27  <Terkhen> good night
21:48:21  <dragonhorseboy> hey welshdragon
21:48:22  <Alberth> Terkhen: have fun with all the new industries :p
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21:48:30  <andythenorth> Terkhen: we are trying to make FIRS map colours usable for people with r-g colour blind
21:48:56  <Terkhen> that's good :)
21:49:21  <Terkhen> the biggest problem is the green background... if it had another colour I would not have any problems
21:49:26  <andythenorth> me neither
21:49:34  <andythenorth> so a new background colour...?
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21:51:03  <Terkhen> I only need 16 scaled colours that are not green or red at the pallete to start working in a patch
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21:53:17  <resq> hallo, I have a question (I know its lame but anyway) Ive read on openttd wiki and on some other website about expanding towns, I did as suggested but my city didnt grow at all for 20 years
21:54:26  <Terkhen> I also can hack the smallmap so that all browns are converted to another colours, but that's less cleaner
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21:54:55  <resq> I had 2 big train stations with few connections, about 4 bus stops, I was bringing goods into city, passengers, mail and nothing for 20 years
21:55:51  <resq> meanwhile in other city I had about 3 bus stops with 3 buses and it has grown about 4000 ppl, of course at the start it had 7000, and mine has only 2000
21:55:58  <resq> is it normal?
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22:04:10  <andythenorth> Terkhen: can I help with the map in anyway?
22:05:19  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth .. did we talk before about FIRS and re you having some more work to do on it at that time before?
22:05:30  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: yes
22:05:44  <andythenorth> do you have a question?
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22:08:02  <dragonhorseboy> heh no just checking it was the same person
22:08:07  <dragonhorseboy> sometimes I forget names
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22:10:23  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth btw I looked at the graphics page and...
22:10:35  <dragonhorseboy> I actually want these farms NOW!!! blah :p nice modular approach
22:10:48  <andythenorth> they're in the existing nightly builds
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22:13:06  <dragonhorseboy> *goes look for it*
22:13:47  <andythenorth>
22:14:57  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I think I can only get 16 colours with reds (same problem) and blues (sea)
22:15:31  <andythenorth> I find the same problem
22:15:57  <andythenorth> that's why I think making the land and sea similar hue (blue / purple) frees a colour (green)
22:16:06  <andythenorth> and eliminates the r-g colour blind problem....
22:16:17  <andythenorth> I have to find 64 colours :|
22:16:21  <Terkhen> and I'm pretty sure that using colours that are not in the palette will be difficult if not impossible
22:16:34  <Terkhen> okay, I'll try with blue
22:21:58  <dragonhorseboy> hmm would anyone recognize this trainset?
22:22:21  <dragonhorseboy> looks like a set that has very early locomotives as noted by the old roof look on what appears to be a regional coach
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22:28:38  <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth either way hmm I might try out the nightly firs grf later on too
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22:47:16  <Terkhen> compiling...
22:50:09  <NeosaD> ^^
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22:56:12  <Terkhen> andythenorth:
22:56:27  <Terkhen> not looking good, but it is a start
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23:44:19  <dragonhorseboy> hmm quiet time now
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23:46:38  <Terkhen> hmmm... I can't find any colour scheme that looks nice and don't conflicts with existing industries
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23:48:50  <Terkhen> I'll try again tomorrow
23:48:51  <Terkhen> good night
23:48:58  <Rubidium> night Terkhen
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23:50:23  <dragonhorseboy> wow jeeze FIRS sure is something and I haven't even unpaused the game yet lol
23:52:02  <dragonhorseboy> think I'll save it for another time
23:52:09  <dragonhorseboy> going take quite some time to assemble something :p
23:53:24  <dragonhorseboy> well I'm going off for a while now
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