Log for #openttd on 15th January 2010:
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00:00:35  <Eddi|zuHause> dragonhorseboy: i heard about this engine:
00:00:35  <dragonhorseboy> either way here's the russia 14 coupled finally:
00:00:50  <dragonhorseboy> very big boiler
00:01:03  <dragonhorseboy> yeah thats it
00:02:28  <dragonhorseboy> I'll admit I like the africa K1 steam locomotive as well .. bit small maybe but hey it was a 0-4-0+0-4-0 with 'boxy' tenders at both ends
00:02:42  <dragonhorseboy> kinda cute looking thing for some reason
00:02:56  <Coco-Banana-Man> hm
00:03:14  <Coco-Banana-Man> Is there a reason why town size multiplier is limited to 10?
00:03:16  <dragonhorseboy> if course if you wanted bigger .. thats the Garrat .. 4-6-2+2-6-4 as I believe
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00:03:37  <dragonhorseboy> Garrat? was it Garret? I always forget that silly detail :S
00:03:42  <Coco-Banana-Man> just tried to make a Metropolis by random map ^^
00:04:52  <Coco-Banana-Man> ah, ok...
00:05:25  <Coco-Banana-Man> 64 towns with 10x multiplier in a 256² map will result in something like that too ^^
00:06:09  <SpComb> abuse
00:06:15  <Coco-Banana-Man> 128 towns works even better...
00:06:56  <dragonhorseboy> hey spcomb :) how're you?
00:07:11  <SpComb> meep meep
00:07:22  <Terkhen> good night
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00:09:38  <dragonhorseboy> spcomb so anyway .. care for a short visit to the game? ;)
00:09:46  <SpComb> not now, no
00:09:52  <SpComb> wrong timezone for that
00:10:03  <dragonhorseboy> lol why?
00:10:18  <SpComb> it's two am?
00:10:29  <dragonhorseboy> bah ok :p
00:10:45  <dragonhorseboy> did some work on my own .. still waiting for either two others (one's you yeah) to show up for a bit more fun .. oh well ;)
00:11:10  <dragonhorseboy> guess tomorrow it is then
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00:40:32  <Coco-Banana-Man> hmm
00:41:05  <Coco-Banana-Man> [01:05:44] <Coco-Banana-Man> 64 towns with 10x multiplier in a 256² map will result in something like that too ^^ <--- with 512 towns it's a really nice scenario where you still have some spare place to build railways! :D
00:41:21  <Coco-Banana-Man> oops. @underline
00:41:52  <Coco-Banana-Man> well, good night then
00:41:56  <dragonhorseboy> bye coco
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00:59:33  <sparr> 512 towns?  wtf?
00:59:35  <sparr> what size map?
00:59:53  <PeterT> good night
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02:14:35  <Sacro> Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?
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02:48:31  <Eddi|zuHause> English only!
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08:12:33  <D4rth> good morning from a german school!
08:13:22  <ss23> D4rth: Is it true that most Dutch people know German?
08:14:48  <D4rth> most people that live near the frontier
08:15:01  <ss23> Sweet :)
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08:15:30  * planetmaker wonders whether there's a place in the Netherlands which is not "near the border" ;-)
08:16:08  <ss23> lol
08:16:22  <Yexo> all dutch learn german at high school
08:17:26  <ss23> Ah I see
08:17:30  <ss23> And English too right?
08:17:38  <Yexo> yes, and french
08:18:03  <roboboy> hello
08:23:00  <__ln> but not swedish?!
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08:25:46  <peter1138> swedish doesn't exist
08:26:21  <Forked> there is no Sweden.
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08:31:52  <planetmaker> must be right next to Bielefeld
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08:47:15  * andythenorth wonders if the map 'knows' what type of ground tile should be under an industry tile
08:48:19  <andythenorth> and the answer must be 'yes' or tile variable 41 wouldn't work
08:48:56  * andythenorth wonders if there's a way to specify industry tile action 2 ground sprite value, so it just uses underlying terrain tile
08:49:31  <andythenorth> otherwise there's a *lot* of duplication coming up :o
08:50:11  * andythenorth posts a forum question about it
08:50:21  <andythenorth> and then it's time for work :)
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08:57:35  <Terkhen> good morning
09:03:22  <andythenorth> morning
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09:11:27  <Yexo> * andythenorth wonders if the map 'knows' what type of ground tile should be under an industry tile <- actually the answer is no
09:12:08  <Yexo> tile var 41 can be computed: if in artic and tile height above snowline -> snow, if in desert then desert/rainforest is stored, else normal
09:12:10  <planetmaker> Yexo, ? But every industry can query the tile, can't it?
09:12:22  <planetmaker> like you said
09:14:49  <peter1138> buh, fscking 'dynamic contrast' :d
09:18:24  <planetmaker> hm... interesting :-) Seems expensive to always calculate the tile info...
09:22:55  <andythenorth> could the ground type be stored in the tile (and snow computed)?
09:23:55  <peter1138> what do mean by groundtype?
09:29:25  <planetmaker> what h/we need is the ground sprite which would be drawn without the industry present
09:29:54  <planetmaker> independent of the climate. E.g. normal grass in temperate, the arctic grass in arctic and desert or rain forrest in tropical climate
09:30:53  <planetmaker> andythenorth, snow can be computed by the tile height and the snow line. Var 81(?) of the industry tiles
09:30:56  <planetmaker> iirc
09:31:09  <planetmaker> but you know _that_ ;-)
09:31:09  <andythenorth>
09:31:49  <Yexo> yes, it's possible
09:32:09  <Yexo> I've done the same for airports (but those always draw the normal ground sprite first)
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09:33:04  <peter1138> you want a special value for ground sprite that would cause ottd to draw the 'default' ground sprite for the ground type
09:34:21  <andythenorth> yes
09:34:24  <andythenorth> pony?
09:34:25  <Akkernight> Hello. I'm trying to SVN the repository and I'm guessing that trunk is the main development branch or what it's called. But I looked at the README in trunk and it says version 1.0 something, while the game release is 0.7.1, this confused me, so which 'branch' is the most updated, and the one I should look at and perhaps work out from?
09:34:44  <Yexo> trunk
09:35:33  <Yexo> and the latest stable is 0.7.5, not 0.7.1
09:37:43  <Yexo> see for how the version scheme works
09:38:12  <Akkernight> Yexo, oh. Ubuntu has 0.7.1 in it's Ubuntu Software Center, or maybe I don't know how to use it well enough? I'm more used to Arch than Ubuntu :P
09:38:29  <planetmaker> Ubuntu is just not up2date
09:38:34  <Yexo> Akkernight: that's because ubuntu doesn't have the latest stable yet,not because there isn't a newer one
09:38:52  <peter1138> planetmaker, "up to date", please
09:39:05  <Yexo> there you can find the latest stable
09:39:07  <planetmaker> :-) point
09:40:08  <Akkernight> Just so I know, will my save go if I update without using the Software Center?
09:40:26  <Yexo> savegames should stay
09:45:08  <Yexo> is it possible to replace a tile from an original industry with industry tiles prop 09 (industry tile override) without replacing/copying the industry?
09:46:47  <andythenorth> Yexo: I haven't tried.  I would try, but I have to go work!  If you stick it in the forum, I could try for you later
09:47:09  <Yexo> don't worry, if you don't know I could try it myself
09:47:26  <Yexo> but it isn't worth the trouble of creating a newgrf when someone here knows it already
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09:59:21  <Yexo> andythenorth: attached a simple patch your topic
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10:10:05  <Akkernight> oh yeah, before I download the repo, is it coded in C++?
10:10:56  <Yexo> yes
10:11:00  <Yexo> well, mostly C compiled as C++
10:17:57  <Akkernight> WARNING: liblzo2 was not detected or disabled
10:17:57  <Akkernight> WARNING: OpenTTD doesn't require liblzo2, but it does mean that
10:17:57  <Akkernight> WARNING: loading old savegames/scenarios will be disabled.
10:18:13  <Akkernight> does this mean I won't be able to load any of my savegames?
10:18:40  <Yexo> I think "old savegames" in this case are ttd/tto savegames
10:18:44  <Yexo> but I'm not 100% sure
10:19:11  <Akkernight> oh well, found them in apt-cache now :P
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10:22:08  <Akkernight> hmm... I have no idea what to code, so I'll just look at the bug tracker :P
10:39:35  <Rubidium> Yexo: also savegames from before 0.3.0
10:41:37  * roboboy presumes thats when the new savegame format came in?
10:42:29  <roboboy> would a nightly savegame from before then at the right time still load
10:44:06  <Rubidium> there were (probably) no nightlies back then
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10:50:49  <Akkernight> 0.7.5 needs libicu38, but apt-cache only has libicu40, can I use the newer version?
10:52:56  <Rubidium> nope
10:53:06  <Rubidium> unless you compile yourself
10:53:35  <dihedral> "apt-cache only has libicu40" <- lol
10:54:12  <dihedral> wich version of which linux distribution are you using Akkernight ?
10:54:45  <Rubidium> ubuntu 9.10 :)
10:54:49  <DaZ> 2.6.32 :f
10:54:57  <DaZ> aw,
10:55:04  * DaZ didn't read the distribution part >:
10:55:09  <Akkernight> yeah, ubuntu 9.10
10:55:56  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18805 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move airport_movement.h to table/
10:56:20  <Rubidium> dihedral: you can deduce ubuntu (or derivate) 9.10 from libicu40
10:57:05  <dihedral> i was just going to check if 38 was available in some other apt source
10:57:11  <dihedral> but it's not
11:01:34  <Rubidium> dihedral: it's in debian lenny, ubuntu 8.10, ubuntu 9.04
11:02:32  <dihedral> yeah - thought if it might be in something like kermic-backports or something else mentioned in the default sources.lst
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11:04:26  <Noldo> kermit-backports
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11:56:32  <Akkernight> what should I look for in the source to find the code for the GUI ?
11:56:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18806 /trunk/src/table/railtypes.h: -Codechange: Typo in comment
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11:57:11  <Rubidium> files ending with _gui.*?
11:57:48  <__ln> if a typo fix in comment is a codechange, then what's not?
11:57:49  * roboboy ponders trying to read the source with his severely limited C++ knowledge
11:57:49  <Akkernight> Rubidium, yeah I guessed so :P anyways, I was just hoping someone could point me in the right direction ;)
11:58:27  <Yexo> Akkernight: then you have to be more specific, what kind of code are you looking for?
11:58:42  <Yexo> definitions of the various windows, code that draws buttons, etc?
11:59:28  <Akkernight> Yexo, In the game, all the GUI with the planes and ships
11:59:59  <Yexo> so the vehicle windows? try vehicle_gui.h/cpp
12:00:05  <Yexo> maybe depot_gui.cpp/station_gui.cpp
12:00:38  <peter1138> __ln, the commit hook enforces an xxxx: tag from a certain list
12:00:52  <peter1138> __ln, inevitably, i cannot be arsed finding out what is valid in that list
12:01:06  <Yexo> -Doc is also valid
12:01:16  <Yexo> not reallymore applicable in this case though
12:01:35  <Rubidium> it's ofcourse -Fix: :)
12:01:39  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it does change a code file :p
12:01:41  <Akkernight> no, the main GUI, like there's Pause, Fast Forward, Settings, Floppy Disk
12:01:54  <Yexo> try main_gui.cpp
12:01:57  <SpComb> -DocFix
12:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause> -DocWho?
12:02:15  <Yexo> has a list
12:05:16  <Akkernight> main_gui.h doesn't exist, but there is window_gui.h although I think it's more about all gui, not the actual game gui I talked about?
12:06:21  <peter1138> you mean the viewport
12:07:40  <Akkernight> aha!
12:08:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18807 /trunk/ (16 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: introduce AirportSpec and move several non-statemachine-related variables to there
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12:16:07  <planetmaker> <-- Yexo wouldn't maybe using land shape flags (prop. 0D), bit 6 make sense, too?
12:16:14  <planetmaker> Maybe even more?
12:16:28  <planetmaker> It would keep the "special flags" count down :-)
12:16:40  <Akkernight> ok, where is the entry point? main.cpp wasn't found :P
12:16:48  <Yexo> openttd.cpp
12:17:04  <planetmaker> Akkernight, you should learn to use grep :-)
12:17:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Akkernight: you seriously should learn the magic of grep
12:17:09  <Yexo> planetmaker: prop 0D is "This property defines which slopes the tile can be built on.", which has nothing to do with drawing the tile
12:17:51  <Akkernight> grep?
12:17:53  <planetmaker> well... yes
12:18:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Akkernight: type "man grep"
12:19:01  <roboboy> hm it would be nice if NewGRFs could display certain new text strings on the new vehicle offer window
12:19:18  <roboboy> eg weather they are a passenger or freight loco
12:19:22  <planetmaker> roboboy, they can.
12:19:39  <SpComb> roboboy: why not just accept every offer and see in the depot window?
12:19:41  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: in the buy window, not in the offer
12:19:51  <planetmaker> oh, :-)
12:20:42  <roboboy> because if you do not test they will not give you another one for 2 years
12:20:44  <planetmaker> SpComb, your chance to get further offers drops significantly, if you don't use the offered engine after you accepted to test it
12:22:05  <planetmaker> Yexo, besides I very much like the idea. Actually I would also like it for houses just the same
12:22:49  <planetmaker> though... let me look whether it doesn't even work now already for houses :-)
12:24:48  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i should reorganise my working copies...
12:25:09  <Eddi|zuHause> "OpenTTD[123xy]" doesn't really cut it anymore ;=)
12:25:26  <planetmaker> ?
12:26:51  <planetmaker> hm... I *think* the ground tile thing is missing for houses, too
12:27:39  <roboboy> bleh the original pathfinder is annoying
12:27:40  <planetmaker> though... it has something there... in the action2 chain for houses
12:28:19  <planetmaker> Houses would allow it, if I did an extensive chain and checked the terrain type.
12:28:28  <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: i thought the original pathfinder was removed?
12:28:43  <Yexo> planetmaker: so the same for industries?
12:28:44  <roboboy> im not playing OTTD at the moment
12:28:54  <roboboy> im playing TTDP
12:29:06  <Eddi|zuHause> then OUT OF HERE!!! :p
12:29:23  <planetmaker> <-- Yexo
12:29:30  <roboboy> its too quiet in there channel though
12:29:38  <planetmaker> the name actually implies that it works for industries already, too
12:29:39  <roboboy> hehe
12:30:36  <planetmaker> that particular action2 could be modified by an action6 in order to show the proper spriteID as ground tile
12:30:54  <Yexo> planetmaker: yes, but that was andythenorth's problem, it works,but it requires duplicating that action2 for every climate you want to support
12:30:59  <planetmaker> so... I guess it's already feasable already. But... with quite a bit detour
12:31:15  <planetmaker> Yexo, yeah
12:31:46  <Yexo> action6 only works at startup right? that doesn't with variable snowline or desert/rainforest
12:32:12  <planetmaker> not entirely sure.
12:32:34  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, apparently i have 21 working copies...
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12:33:25  <Eddi|zuHause> which is weird, because i have no idea why i have a cpp branch ceckout at all...
12:34:04  <planetmaker> museum of stone age versions maybe?
12:34:34  <Eddi|zuHause> here goes the noai checkout...
12:35:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess i don't need 0.3.5 and 0.5.2 either...
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12:43:19  <roboboy> hello Muxy
12:43:32  <Goulp> hello roboboy
12:44:31  <Goulp> watch company for trunk is in progress
12:46:46  <roboboy> goodie
12:46:50  <roboboy> thanx
12:47:28  <Goulp> i made the window with new widget system.
12:47:45  <roboboy> does anyone know if the win32 version of patch is broken?
12:48:03  <roboboy> I remember hearing something about it being broken
12:48:20  <Yexo> it doesn't accept unix newlines
12:48:31  <roboboy> ok
12:48:38  <Yexo> but afaik both the cygwin and mingw version work ok
12:49:11  <roboboy> I can easily change the unix newlines with a script easily or I should be able tp beforehand
12:50:56  <roboboy> I can not seem to get tortoise merge to merge multiple patches thats why I was asking
12:51:22  <Yexo> why not? what error do you get?
12:52:44  <roboboy> it doesn't even show the list of files to be patched when I try to apply the second patch
12:53:01  <Yexo> second patch is probably a git or mercurial patch
12:53:11  <Yexo> tortoisesvn doesn't support those patches
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12:54:23  <roboboy> I tried two SVN patches if I remember
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12:55:05  * roboboy updates his copy of trunk
12:55:34  <Yexo> and did you also try to apply them the other way around? second patch first? Does that give the same problem?
12:55:50  <roboboy> I think I did
12:56:33  <roboboy> ill try two patches once my copy of trunk is updated and ill post my results with screenshots on the forums
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13:10:17  <roboboy> hm it seems to be the automated timetables patch doesnt like tortoise merge
13:10:26  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: how much disk space where those?
13:10:46  <SpComb> I've started running out of lv-space after I started bouncing openttd working copies + compiles around :)
13:11:04  <Yexo> roboboy: indeed, that patch is made with git
13:11:17  <Yexo> <Yexo> second patch is probably a git or mercurial patch <Yexo> tortoisesvn doesn't support those patches
13:11:46  <roboboy> but the patch says it is agains trunk SVN?
13:11:58  <Yexo> yes
13:12:09  <Yexo> it's indeed a patch against trunk
13:12:17  <planetmaker> roboboy, it's against a trunk version. It doesn't talk about the patch format ;-)
13:12:45  <Yexo> the svn in the filename is misleading
13:12:52  <roboboy> ok even though it says SVN in its filename. Ill have to be more careful
13:12:59  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: somehow it seems to vary betwen 50 and 400MB each
13:13:28  <planetmaker> roboboy, point is, if one doesn't use tortoise* but a patch programme on other OS, one doesn't need to care at all
13:13:55  <roboboy> and tortoiseGit wont merge Git with SVN
13:14:12  <roboboy> I see
13:15:11  <Yexo> but a patch programme on other OS <- but a decent patch program on any OS
13:15:35  <planetmaker> :-)
13:15:46  <roboboy> except native on wn32
13:16:04  * roboboy goes to get win32 patch
13:16:07  <Yexo> cygwin's patch works fine
13:16:08  <planetmaker> I guess Yexo uses a native one there...
13:16:18  <Yexo> and the one I got with msys works fine too
13:16:35  <roboboy> ok
13:16:37  <Yexo> <- that one does not, at least last time I tried
13:17:22  <roboboy> do I need cygwin/msys to run there versions?
13:17:46  <Yexo> for most (all?) cygwin program you need cygwin1.dll
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13:18:17  <roboboy> how about the MSYS version?
13:18:35  <Yexo> it's actually part of mingw
13:18:48  <roboboy> ok
13:18:53  <Yexo> and I have no idea
13:22:19  *** DaZ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:28:50  <roboboy> would openttd compile under msvc 6?
13:29:11  <Yexo> probably not
13:29:37  <roboboy> ive heard its verry borked
13:29:59  <Rubidium> Yexo: s/probably //
13:30:15  <Yexo> ok
13:30:41  * roboboy notes that there is no project for it though
13:32:31  <Rubidium> 0.5.0 didn't compile with MSVC6
13:32:50  <Rubidium> 0.6.0 didn't compile with MSVC2003
13:33:47  <Belugas> hello
13:34:28  <planetmaker> moin Belugas
13:35:08  <Belugas> moni to you too, planetmaker
13:35:35  <roboboy> evin Belugas
13:36:18  <planetmaker> is there some local variant of "salut" or "hi" or alike around your place, Belugas ?
13:38:22  <Belugas> salut is used indeed :)
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13:47:07  <Belugas> when the boss comes in, it's "bonjour messieurs" of cours
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14:56:38  <Fuchs82> could someone please help me with installing the gfx and sfx?
14:59:08  <Rubidium> what os and what version of OpenTTD?
14:59:44  <Fuchs82> 1.0.0 beta 2 on winXP
15:00:03  <Fuchs82> german
15:00:56  <Rubidium> use the installer and select OpenGFX and OpenSFX for downloading
15:01:18  <Fuchs82> i copied the gfx and sfx to the my documents folder but the game does not find a sound set. i also made a dumy
15:01:26  <Fuchs82> ok, will try that, thanks
15:02:01  <Rubidium> what do you mean with the "my documents folder"?
15:02:39  <Fuchs82> as written in the readme:Windows: C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\My Documents\OpenTTD
15:03:06  <Rubidium> and the files are in the 'data' directory under that folder?
15:03:16  <Fuchs82> nope
15:03:27  <Fuchs82> didn't know that :-P
15:03:37  <Rubidium> that's also written in the readme somewhere
15:04:06  <Fuchs82> kk, I see :)
15:04:58  <Rubidium> although the dummy sound file trick from OpenGFX's manual doesn't work anymore
15:05:36  <Elessar> Is OpenTTD's data directory not on Application\ Data ?
15:06:06  <Fuchs82> no, not on my system
15:06:23  <Fuchs82> and it works now, thanks!! keep up the good work, I enjoy the game :-))
15:06:30  <Elessar> (neither on mine, as I do not use Windowses :-) )
15:06:34  <Ammler> you see, there are people reading the readme :-)
15:07:12  <Elessar> So does OpenTTD really put its data on the user's home directory, under Windows?
15:07:31  <roboboy> it could do with an update for Vista/7
15:07:32  <Fuchs82> it creates a OpenTTD folder in the home dir
15:07:33  <roboboy> yes
15:07:49  <Ammler> Elessar: like it does on linux or like most other games do, too
15:08:28  <roboboy> actually My Documents as technically ones homedir is their usernames folder?
15:08:56  <planetmaker> Rubidium: it triggers now a fatal error?
15:08:58  <Elessar> Ammler: Yes, but on Unices, such directories are hidden.
15:09:27  <Rubidium> Elessar: it's way easier to refer to a directory that isn't hidden by default; primarily because the people having the trouble are the people not having directory hiding turned off
15:09:46  * Ammler does symlink .openttd to openttd
15:09:52  <Elessar> And on Unices, this is the common practice, whereas on Windows, the practice is to put data and configuration in Application\ Data, not on My\ Documents.
15:09:53  <Rubidium> planetmaker: likely does
15:10:10  <planetmaker> hm... then it's time to adjust the readme :-)
15:10:30  <planetmaker> does nosound come with OpenTTD by default or does it need downloading?
15:11:02  <Rubidium> planetmaker: separate download
15:11:10  <planetmaker> ok
15:11:13  <planetmaker> thx
15:11:15  <Ammler> planetmaker: the same discussion was once about some time ago
15:11:29  <Ammler> foobar made a fs post about
15:11:41  <Rubidium> Elessar: it wasn't such common practice when the code was written
15:12:17  <Rubidium> also having all files in the same directory is easier for support than having them spread around the system
15:12:46  * Elessar cannot remember that time.
15:12:57  <Elessar> Anyway, it is not a concern to me, in fact.
15:13:05  <roboboy> technically only savegames and scenarios would go in Documents\OpenTTD
15:13:07  <Rubidium> but feel free to rewrite it so it puts the files where you think they should go while supporting the current practice
15:13:19  <Ammler> all windows games I play have the user data in mydocs too
15:14:33  <planetmaker> putting them in the users home dir data path is IMO a good pracise. No admin priviliges required to update etc pp
15:14:39  <Ammler> roboboy: newgrfs can also be "user" data
15:15:12  <planetmaker> in other words: current paths seem quite reasonable to me
15:15:34  <roboboy> i'd put cfg and grfs and langs and other stuff under \data in Appdata\roaming
15:15:58  <planetmaker> but do you have write priviliges there when you're NOT admin?
15:16:04  <Rubidium> I would put the languages with the binary...
15:16:35  <roboboy> id even put savegames under username\Saved Games\OpenTTD
15:16:49  <Rubidium> roboboy: where is that on e.g. windows 98?
15:17:02  <roboboy> but then you would need to know if you were on vista or newer
15:17:23  <Rubidium> I'm already annoyed by MS changing the path to the home directory every release
15:17:24  <roboboy> Rubidium: I was getting to that
15:18:04  <Goulp> "My Documents\openttd" is more easily reachable than ApplicationData\Openttd
15:18:10  <roboboy> they provide api's to get it automatically
15:18:30  <Goulp> even if ApplicationData belong to the profile dir
15:18:30  <Rubidium> roboboy: yes-ish, but they don't work for e.g. win9x
15:18:40  <Ammler> doesn't windows use something like a env var %HOME%?
15:18:42  <roboboy> thats right
15:18:53  <roboboy> non reliable
15:18:55  <Rubidium> Ammler: ofcourse... but that var is useless
15:19:03  <planetmaker> indeed
15:19:09  <Goulp> GetHomeDirectory( ) ?
15:19:17  <roboboy> nope
15:23:36  <roboboy> theres a generic function to get the path to any special folder, eg documents music appdata
15:23:47  <roboboy> in the win32 api
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15:24:18  <roboboy> I thinlk it relies on a specific version of IE
15:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... designing a title game is kinda boring without newgrfs...
15:25:15  <Eddi|zuHause> might as well keep the old one...
15:25:22  <roboboy> ive read about 9x workarounds whilst I was working out how to get this info using VB6
15:27:13  <Ammler> why isn't it possible to add the river boarders to the openttd.grf?
15:27:44  <planetmaker> hm, my forum's foe list has again a single entry
15:28:04  <Ammler> noeb?
15:28:14  <planetmaker> sad that it doesn't work for "new postings". Yes
15:28:21  <planetmaker> 1 rubber point to Ammer ;-)
15:28:46  <Ammler> well, the foe list is useless
15:29:03  <Ammler> the thread will be marked as updated also with that
15:29:15  <Rubidium> Ammler: because it's an action 0123 thing?
15:29:18  <planetmaker> but he's verbal diarrhea ;-)
15:29:23  <Rubidium> and because we don't have the graphics yet
15:29:57  <Eddi|zuHause>,%2022.%20Jun%202000.png <- how's that for an early draft?
15:30:00  <planetmaker> hm, do rivers  / channels support action 1/2/3 ?
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15:31:45  * roboboy likes
15:34:27  <Ammler> planetmaker: the issue is, they need action0123
15:34:58  <planetmaker> ok, then I understood it right :-)
15:35:57  <Ammler> maybe opengfx should better split that "extra" things from the real openttd.grf replacement?
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15:38:29  <planetmaker> hm?
15:38:46  <planetmaker> A base set may only have one additional file.
15:39:32  <planetmaker> and action 2/3 won't be in the extra one
15:42:44  <Ammler>
15:43:05  <Ammler> it is already ;-)
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15:45:58  <planetmaker> hm, indeed
15:46:38  <planetmaker> not the best of choices
15:46:53  <roboboy> would it be possible to convince TTD to load OpenGFX if you renamed it?
15:47:15  <Yexo> didn't someone try that with ttdpatch?
15:48:03  <planetmaker> roboboy: yes and no
15:48:13  <planetmaker> you'll have some missing GUI sprites afaik
15:48:21  <planetmaker> but in principle it works
15:49:04  <Ammler> roboboy:
15:50:50  <Ammler> wow, 40 downloads, maybe we should make a update :-)
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15:52:32  <Ammler> planetmaker: we don't replace the basegrf file of the patch, so there shouldn't be any missing things, but maybe some inconsistency
15:53:32  <Ammler> (we don't replace ttdp specific sprites)
15:53:48  <planetmaker> the ttdp branch is your domain ;-)
15:53:56  <roboboy> I only copyd one of them and it works
15:53:58  <planetmaker> or rather built
15:54:01  <Ammler> no, it is noones
15:54:07  <planetmaker> hehe
15:54:15  <roboboy> id like it
15:54:24  <roboboy> whats in the extra grf?
15:54:40  <planetmaker> the point is it needs renaming the files to the original names. That's what we don't really fancy
15:54:54  <planetmaker> the extra newgrf adds extra features. You can load it as static
15:55:02  <roboboy> ok
15:55:10  <planetmaker> like more climate specific things than original
15:55:19  <Ammler> yes, you need to add the extra grf like other newgrfs
15:55:20  <planetmaker> or better (more) shore sprites
15:55:25  <roboboy> does OpenGFX cover openttd.grf?
15:55:37  <Ammler> and extend
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15:55:52  <planetmaker> roboboy: yes
15:56:07  <planetmaker> openttd.grf is basically part of the TTD grfs.
15:56:15  <planetmaker> or of the original base set
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15:56:46  <Ammler> (file _extra that is)
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15:56:59  * roboboy wonders whats in ttdpbasew.grf thats not in openttd.grf
15:57:00  <planetmaker> though, of course, it's the part which OpenTTD adds so that the TTD grfs work
15:57:18  <roboboy> I would think not much
15:57:25  <planetmaker> roboboy: some GUI sprites for sure
15:57:36  * Coco-Banana-Man wonders, what the maximum number of towns on an OpenTTD game is...
15:57:38  <planetmaker> there are differences.
15:57:54  <roboboy> yeah
15:58:02  <Yexo> Coco-Banana-Man: as many as fit on a map
15:58:29  <Rubidium> many thousands
15:58:33  <Coco-Banana-Man> so there isn't a "specific" limit?
15:58:33  <Yexo> maximum is 64000, but you'll never be able to fit that many towns on one map
15:58:41  <Coco-Banana-Man> ok, thanks :)
15:58:49  <Ammler> the name generator (newgrf) could limit it
15:59:10  <Yexo> you could always use custom names in that case
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16:15:12  <Ammler> hmm, evil frosch reverted my wiki update :'-(
16:15:32  <Ammler> without any comment
16:19:40  *** Rubix`` [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:19:46  <Belugas> i THINK he must have a pretty good reason for it ;)
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16:27:26  <planetmaker> hehe
16:27:43  <Rubidium> wiki update? where?
16:27:45  <planetmaker> leaving no comment is hard to justify, though ;-)
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16:36:00  <Belugas> bah... sometimes, it's better to not leave a comment...
16:36:10  <Belugas> Ammler, what was hat page?
16:37:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18808 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Cleanup: deplicate by using an existing function
16:37:42  <Ammler> Belugas:
16:38:03  <Ammler> it is a bit strange history, maybe it wasn't him
16:38:31  <Ammler> I tried to make the table like the vehicle list
16:38:59  <Belugas> note to self: Belugas is not a protocole, http is... don't paste the whole line and press enter... yu dumb brain
16:39:53  <Goulp> Belugas: right clic on the link and Open in a browser ? (and happy new year)
16:40:24  <peter1138> ah, you added a pointless decimal number
16:41:29  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18809 /trunk/src/ (295 files in 20 dirs): -Codechange/Cleanup: remove unneeded headers from some files, if a header require a header make it include that header
16:41:30  <planetmaker> hehe @ Belugas ;-)
16:45:46  <Ammler> peter1138: you think that was the reason, forsch reverted?
16:47:00  <Ammler> I thought it is easier to add it there, then copy the table to a new page.
16:49:41  <peter1138> why add it at all?
16:50:15  <Ammler> (my basecosts.grf needs it)
16:51:17  <Ammler>
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16:53:04  <planetmaker> hello Terkhen, rising star on the supplied-patch-for-<whatever> sky ;-)
16:53:31  <Terkhen> hello :P
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16:57:12  <Ammler> <-- has also both types
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17:26:14  <Mks> !tunnels 6 16
17:26:46  <planetmaker> o_O
17:29:21  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... "Current value for 'economy.town_noise_population' is: '800' (min: (0) 0, max: 0" <-- anyone else get that?
17:29:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't change it from the console...
17:29:55  <Yexo> it's a string setting, not an integer
17:30:04  <Yexo> default value is "800,2000,4000"
17:30:24  <Yexo> oh,maybe it is a list of integers, not a string
17:31:43  <Ammler> how to set that with console?
17:31:57  <Yexo> I'm trying to find that out now
17:34:46  <Yexo> it's currently not possible
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17:37:21  <Ammler> Yexo: would it hurt, if someone sets a value something else than those three?
17:37:33  <Yexo> nope
17:37:45  <Yexo> it has something to do with the airport noise levels, but I'm not surehow it works exactly
17:38:14  <Ammler> hmm, "someone" could try what happens, if you configure it with the cfg
17:39:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it's the population-per-noiselevel-per-difficulty
17:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause> for the permissive/whatever/blah town tolerance
17:39:52  <Eddi|zuHause> on permissive, the noise level is 3+n*800
17:40:22  <Eddi|zuHause> 3+n*800+distance/12 or so...
17:40:44  <Eddi|zuHause> 3+population/800+distance/12 or so...
17:40:55  <Eddi|zuHause> something like this :p
17:42:32  <Ammler> quite complicated, isn't?
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17:43:04  <Ammler> are there other settings, which depend on other settings?
17:46:26  <Alberth> the days/percentages of the vehicle servicing
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17:59:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: glx * r18810 /trunk/src/sdl.h: -Fix (r18809): broken win32 compilation with SDL
18:02:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: shall i open a bug report about not being able to change the setting?
18:03:12  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: feel free, but I've tried to make it possible and it's very hard
18:03:22  <Yexo> so don't count on it being implemented soon
18:03:59  *** Rexxars [~rexxars@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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18:10:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: especially if it's not fixed soon, it should be a bug report, as otherwise it will just be forgotten...
18:10:27  <Yexo> true :)
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18:23:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18811 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_road.cpp: -Fix (r18803): also swap the parameters for the AI API
18:24:06  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18812 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make some functions in train.h functions of Train.
18:25:21  <Rubidium> that should cut some of the trivial stuff from Terkhen's patch :)
18:25:41  <Yexo> in other words: break the patch again ;)
18:26:02  <Rubidium> Terkhen: when you update the patch, also fix the whitespace issues in train.h; in some places you use 4 spaces instead of tab
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18:27:10  <Terkhen> thanks, I will :)
18:28:43  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18813 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h newgrf_gui.cpp): -Codechange: deduplicate copying a newgrf config
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18:45:29  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r18814 /trunk/src/lang/ (polish.txt romanian.txt spanish.txt):
18:45:29  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:29  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:29  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: polish - 5 changes by amateja
18:45:29  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: romanian - 1 changes by kkmic
18:45:30  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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18:59:02  <Terkhen> see you later
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19:13:19  <wysiwtf> i see commits
19:15:41  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i should save a standard "please use PNG instead of JPG" reply somewhere...
19:19:27  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: why? Just block/ignore all *.jpg files :)
19:19:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: not all .jpg files are actually called .jpg
19:20:06  <Eddi|zuHause> some are called attachment.php?blah
19:23:09  <Eddi|zuHause> funny... the EU parliament has "naked body scanners" for sale that were secretly bought 8 years ago and never used
19:23:30  <Rubidium> let me guess, they work as well as the new ones
19:24:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a funny show recently on ZDF, where they tested one of these scanners
19:24:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and the guy (a physicist) explained:
19:24:48  <Eddi|zuHause> "what you see here on the picture is my cell phone and a swiss army knife"
19:25:17  <Eddi|zuHause> "what you don't see on this picture is this package of thermite, an ignitor in my teeth, ..."
19:25:35  <Eddi|zuHause> "... and a lighter"
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19:26:14  <Rubidium> yeah, but the battery in your cell phone is more dangerous, and the army knife... how dare you
19:27:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and he was like "the ban on liquids is totally useless, there are two kinds of liquid explosives that are both useless for terrorists"
19:27:53  <Eddi|zuHause> "but you can get this thermite for a few cents in every pharmacy"
19:28:10  <planetmaker> it's all about perceived security. Not about actual
19:28:22  <Rubidium> but it's not about what's useful for the terrorists, it's what seems useful against terrorists by the stupid public
19:28:48  <planetmaker> like 4 years back, I was working for two weeks at K?ln-Bonn airport.
19:28:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i hope this discussion dies in the next 3 months...
19:28:59  <planetmaker> We applied for security cards and all shit in advance.
19:28:59  <fjb> And what is expensive to sell.
19:29:10  <Rubidium> and terrorists are *really* winning the last 10 years with all those insane extra rules that don't work
19:29:32  <planetmaker> When we arrived with a big VW 8-seat bus and a trailer just as big... we could just pass the gate to the airport (runways and all) without much.
19:30:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, of course...
19:30:16  <fjb> A clipboard gets you everywhere.
19:30:24  <Rubidium> want to totally derail the airport? Just skip under the lines of security and presto... whole airport is derailed
19:30:30  <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to cause trouble, pose as an airport worker, not as a passenger
19:31:10  <planetmaker> CCC showed that the access cards are copied wireless for less then 200EUR for a number of German airports
19:31:24  <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't there a funny scene somewhere where a guy went backwards through the security gate and nobody could figure out how he got in in the first place?
19:32:34  <frosch123> andythenorth: <- enlighten me :)
19:33:03  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: there was at least one where someone wanted to give her friend a final goodbye kiss when he had already passed security
19:33:29  <Rubidium> everyone had to go through security again after the whole airport was cleared
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19:35:42  <andythenorth> frosch123: so sprite 3981 will always get me a plain land tile?
19:35:58  <andythenorth> (or I could go check...)
19:36:42  <frosch123> if that is the flat grass tile, then yes, it is the same spritenumber for different looking grass of the climates
19:37:10  <andythenorth> oops :o
19:37:52  <andythenorth> I therefore owe various apologies
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19:41:14  <frosch123> hmm, one issue though. yexo's patch allows easy dealing with differently sloped land
19:41:26  <frosch123> but that is only useful for grass-only tiles
19:41:33  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
19:41:53  <Yexo> also for grass tiles with a very small building on it
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19:42:12  <andythenorth> frosch123: my sandpit is now terrain aware :)
19:42:21  <andythenorth> however it does look kind of sucky in tropic
19:42:46  <frosch123> :p
19:43:44  <fjb> Make the sand orange in tropic. :-)
19:43:46  <planetmaker> meh :-P
19:45:03  <andythenorth> it's not the sand I'm bother about, it's the square-edged green tiles
19:45:08  <andythenorth> I'll screenie
19:46:24  <andythenorth>
19:46:40  <andythenorth> looks bad, but was quick and easy, and doesn't mean getting a patch into trunk :)
19:47:59  <fjb> I've seen badder things.
19:48:12  <Yexo> use var 41 and ifit returns 1 or 4 use 4550 as groundsprite
19:48:17  <Yexo> only one varaction2 more
19:48:51  <planetmaker> what is 4550?
19:49:01  <Yexo> snow/desert
19:49:05  <planetmaker> ah
19:49:19  <andythenorth> Yexo: it's not a bad route.  there are 28 tiles, so 28 varaction 2's more.  But I have to check for snow anyway, so they'll probably be needed.
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19:50:16  <planetmaker> andythenorth: but not desert as in the screeny :-)
19:50:38  <frosch123> you could just forbd the industry in desert :p
19:50:56  <Eddi|zuHause> "don't get sand out of the desert!"
19:50:59  <andythenorth> frosch123: meh, it would solve the orange sand problem, but we want to keep FIRS very open
19:51:57  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that was the original plan - almost in those very words.  But it's just simpler this way....
19:52:21  <andythenorth> and even if sand is mined easily in the desert, it still has to be dug out and put in truck somewhere right?
19:52:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the orange sand is a problem... just say "the yellow sand hasn't been exposed to light that long" :p
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19:52:53  <Eddi|zuHause> 80% of the desert isn't sand anyway...
19:53:03  <Eddi|zuHause> but rather rock
19:53:06  <andythenorth> rocks and stuff?
19:55:49  <andythenorth> so this solves my problem, but does it make Yexo's patch useless?
19:57:21  <planetmaker> hm... the purpose was ground tile, was it?
19:58:08  <Eddi|zuHause> the behaviour should probably be unified between airports, houses and industries
19:59:21  <andythenorth> I find it unintuitive that I have to specify a ground tile.  I keep defining them as 0, then being surprised by drawing artefacts :o
19:59:30  <andythenorth> however it's easily fixed
19:59:41  <andythenorth> don't define as 0...
20:01:15  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that is solved by having a sensible default?
20:02:46  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: newgrfs are nowhere unified. Many "features" have the same property. But they have a different numerical value everywhere.
20:02:58  <planetmaker> Sometimes even a different variable type (byte vs. word vs. dword)
20:03:14  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's exactly the problem...
20:03:32  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but one step at a time...
20:03:32  <planetmaker> I agree :-)
20:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: make a list of unifications and propose those for grf version 8 ;)
20:04:04  <andythenorth> quick question: is there a magic key combo to make the info tool show me the action 2 id of a tile?
20:04:08  <planetmaker> hehe. Re-defining all properties :-P
20:04:08  <Yexo> main problem is to keep backwards compatible with old newgrfs
20:04:40  <planetmaker> I'd have to look how the grf versions may change / what they can change
20:04:43  <Yexo> andythenorth: you can try setting the grf debug level higher
20:05:09  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I should anyway do that list, I guess.
20:05:21  <planetmaker> Would also help my makefiles ;-)
20:06:36  *** Rexxars [~rexxars@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:07:30  * andythenorth prepares once again to venture into the murky world of the text stack
20:08:14  <planetmaker> still all strings used up?
20:08:34  <andythenorth> planetmaker: no, I want to show the industry layout number in the industry window (for debug)
20:08:42  * andythenorth decides the text stack can wait
20:08:48  <planetmaker> ah, I see :-)
20:09:02  <andythenorth> debugging tiles on complex industries is a right pain in the arse
20:09:13  <andythenorth> I am going to have to draw out and label every layout on graph paper
20:09:39  <frosch123> [21:04] <planetmaker> Sometimes even a different variable type (byte vs. word vs. dword) <- signed vs. unsigned is more fun :p
20:09:42  <planetmaker> oh yes :-) I believe so. Scan it and add it to the source ;-)
20:09:54  <andythenorth> *and* neob still didn't answer my question.  How rude.
20:10:03  <planetmaker> heha @ frosch123 also very nice
20:10:45  <frosch123> [21:05] <planetmaker> hehe. Re-defining all properties :-P <- :p
20:11:30  <andythenorth> that would be quite useful in combination with planetmaker's make file system
20:11:45  <andythenorth> redefine everything once, commit, add to header....
20:11:54  <andythenorth> ....grf authors then go insane due to wiki being wrong :)
20:12:02  <frosch123> but i agree, for industries that can be build on differently sloped land some special behaviour could be useful, but afaik there is no such industry yet
20:12:42  <planetmaker>  !!! translation table for vars! Sounds insane. Maybe is. But interesting at least, too :-)
20:12:49  <Yexo> ecs forest? or can that only be build on specific sloped land?
20:13:08  * frosch123 cannot remember haveing ever seen ecs forest
20:13:31  <Yexo> could be another set then
20:13:49  <Yexo> but I thought there was a forest in one set that could be build on slopes
20:14:30  <frosch123> some forest was build on foundations :p
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20:15:16  <frosch123> lol, someone broke the newgrf gui
20:15:20  <Yexo> oh, yes
20:15:55  <Yexo> broken in what way? could be me then in r18813
20:16:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, ECS forests were sloped, and PBI forests were sometimes on foundations (except during world generation?)
20:16:16  <frosch123> i wanted to add one grf (filter was active) and it seems to have added all 100 grfs following that one
20:16:23  <andythenorth> PBI forest builds on foundations on slopes
20:16:44  <Yexo> oops
20:17:04  <andythenorth> I tried recently building sheep farm on slopes, but had to revert, there are some...complications I hadn't thought of
20:17:07  <frosch123> never added so many grfs with one click :p
20:17:32  <Eddi|zuHause> comes close to the "add all" button that so many people want :p
20:17:44  <peter1138> eh
20:18:09  <planetmaker> let's hope you're as fast to remove them (not using a pre-set ;-) )
20:18:46  <frosch123> planetmaker: ok, then i use quitting ottd to remove any number above 59 or so
20:19:19  <planetmaker> :-)
20:20:22  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it's faster when you started with -x ;)
20:20:37  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18815 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18813): adding a single newgrf via the newgrf gui added all newgrfs after the selected one too
20:20:41  <Eddi|zuHause> (that's what prevented saving the cfg, right?)
20:21:26  <Eddi|zuHause> btw... what happened to the "replace NewGRF with same ID" patch?
20:22:00  <Yexo> broken nigthly today :(
20:22:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: happens way too rarely :p
20:22:29  <Rubidium> broken nightlies are good :)
20:23:00  <Yexo> it shows how many people actually report bugs
20:23:19  <planetmaker> didn't someone state recently that they don't work anyway? ;-) so why bother :-P
20:24:12  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: sometimes prejudices must be served? :p
20:25:17  <frosch123> Yexo: you were right, ecs forest is build on slope (without foundations)
20:25:25  <planetmaker> of course, Eddi! :-)
20:25:53  <frosch123> but the trees also follow the slope, which would look silly if the flat positions would be used
20:26:50  <Eddi|zuHause> PBI forests could use that feature...
20:27:04  <frosch123> "Should be plant at the end of spring only" <- that is ECS :)
20:27:06  <Eddi|zuHause> forests with foundations look silly
20:28:21  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: "realistic" would be "should give first wood after 30-60 years" :p
20:28:51  <planetmaker> for pines that's quite a long time already.
20:29:19  <frosch123> hmm, why is funding forests disabled
20:29:27  <frosch123> how can you actually do that :o
20:29:27  <Yexo> frosch123: was just taking a look at
20:29:35  <Yexo> is there already a function to read a string until the next 00 byte?
20:29:51  <frosch123> that is the way all grf strings are encoded
20:29:59  <frosch123> so look at action4 :)
20:30:09  <frosch123> or 8
20:30:25  <Yexo> ah, i got it
20:30:36  <Yexo> thought len was the length of the stirng,but it's only a maximum
20:31:22  <frosch123> hmm, do you mean the length of the sprite? then it is kind of eof/eol
20:32:08  <Yexo> no,the max_len parameter to ttd_load_string
20:32:18  <Yexo> but i understand it now
20:32:59  <Eddi|zuHause> that looks like a buffer overflow protection to me...
20:35:24  <Yexo> it is
20:35:41  <frosch123> [21:29] <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: "realistic" would be "should give first wood after 30-60 years" :p <- user construction / prospection is not allowed at all
20:36:07  * andythenorth is worried I am storing up a tile offset mistake hell
20:36:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i have learned to avoid ECS, too complex/overloaded
20:36:47  <andythenorth> my offsets *seem* to work, but maybe there are hideous clipping errors.  what a lot of tiles I will have to fix if this is true :o
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20:38:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i have also learned to avoid most house sets, because i absolutely hate the dominance green houses both in TTRS and the swedish houses...
20:39:11  <peter1138> none of those in tai
20:39:22  <peter1138> unless you count the green scrabble tiles
20:39:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't tried TaI yet
20:39:59  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't expect MB to release a house set any time soon...
20:40:25  <andythenorth> I can't think of any house set acronyms, so no houses from me
20:40:37  <andythenorth> I like what Irwe is doing with swedish houses though
20:43:18  <Eddi|zuHause> make towns look like or
20:44:00  <Eddi|zuHause> house walls should be wite to brown-ish and roofs should mostly be red to black
20:44:37  <Eddi|zuHause> only some rare buildings have copper roofs, which turn green
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20:45:41  <Eddi|zuHause> what's kinda missing in openttd is landmark buildings, that give each city a unique look
20:46:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and limiting the spread of highrises...
20:46:27  <Eddi|zuHause> like one skyscraper every 20.000 inhabitants...
20:46:30  <frosch123> andythenorth: i think you seriously need some pony shed :p
20:47:03  <planetmaker> lool
20:47:26  <andythenorth> frosch123: you saw I'd updated my pony topic?
20:47:28  <andythenorth> :o
20:47:30  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i guess it is rather like 5 skyscrapers in the city
20:47:51  <Tera> any clue are the recent stability issues in the trunk fixed yet?
20:47:55  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, i opened it as yexo mentioned it earlier and i could not remember whether i had read all
20:48:21  <Rubidium> Tera: stability issues like?
20:48:39  <Tera> crashes
20:49:03  <Yexo> what os /version are you using?
20:49:14  <Tera> hmm.. nope. Not fixed yet :)
20:49:16  <Tera> Arch Linux
20:49:20  <andythenorth> frosch123: I added a few more.  They are mostly nothing that hasn't been discussed / suggested before :)
20:49:27  <Yexo> compiling yourself or downloading a precompiled binary?
20:49:30  <Rubidium> haven't seen any trunk crashes lately on the tracker
20:49:42  <Tera> loading a save game which perfectly worked with few days old compile crashes 100% sure on the latest trunk.
20:49:46  <Yexo> Tera: is there an easy way to reproduce the crash?
20:49:49  <Tera> Yexo: compiling from SVN
20:50:14  <Yexo> latest trunk = r18815 I hope? r18813/r18814 might crash indeed
20:50:15  <Tera> Yexo: I can re-produce it everytime I load my save game with pretty large and complex railroad system
20:50:32  <Yexo> in that case please open a bugreport at and attach the savegame
20:50:39  <Tera> tried with 18815 few mins ago. still crashes.
20:51:10  <Tera> my last working build is r18761
20:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Tera: do you have older savegames of the same game which don't crash?
20:51:40  <Tera> Eddi|zuHause: no I don't, but I can also trick a crash with a new game, after sometime of normal gameplay.
20:51:59  <Yexo> again: please report at how to trick the crash
20:52:00  <peter1138> airports
20:52:00  <thingwath> Well, my trunk seems to crash if there is an airport, in the savegame :)
20:52:19  <peter1138>  [08] /lib/ [0x7fbf6bf32dc9]
20:52:19  <peter1138>  [09] bin/openttd(_ZN11AirportSpec3GetEh+0x2b) [0x5e8111]
20:52:19  <peter1138>  [10] bin/openttd(_ZNK7Station14GetAirportSpecEv+0x38) [0x5e815c]
20:52:23  <Eddi|zuHause> so... who screwed with airports today? :p
20:52:25  <Tera> Yexo: gotcha. I do that as soon as the conversation calms down :)
20:52:26  <thingwath>  Message: Assertion failed at line 66 of /home/thingie/stuff/openttd/src/airport.h: type < NUM_AIRPORTS
20:52:29  <thingwath> :)
20:52:38  <Yexo> airports or an oilrig?
20:53:14  <Tera> peter1138: My savegame has airports, but new games have crashed just with a few trains only. So clearly it's not the only way to trick the crash.
20:53:26  <Yexo> Tera: is there an oilrig in your game?
20:53:49  <Tera> yes
20:53:57  <Yexo> that's probably the issue
20:54:03  <Tera> so it's a known issue then?
20:54:11  <Yexo> only now
20:54:14  <thingwath> oilrig triggers that
20:54:40  <thingwath> I tried to build one in a game without it, and it crashed when it was about to get the heliport...
20:55:17  <Tera> in that case, if it's a known issue I guess you don't need me to flood your bugtrack
20:55:42  <Yexo> well i just learned about the issue because of you :)
20:55:49  <Yexo> but for this a bugreport is nolonger needed
20:56:15  <peter1138> but if you had reported the bug originally...
20:56:43  <Yexo> bug was introduced in r18807
20:57:24  <Tera> 18809 was first build I tried. I decided to hold off and wait a bit if someone was in the middle of sending patches to the trunk.
20:57:39  <Eddi|zuHause> we should retract Yexo's commit rights, he broke the same nightly two different ways :p
20:57:50  <planetmaker> :-P
20:57:51  <Yexo> hehe :p
20:57:56  <Tera> :>
20:58:02  <Yexo> at least I got a fix for both problems within a few minutes of it being reported :)
20:58:05  <sawtooth> nah, yexo is just testing us
20:58:20  * planetmaker hugs Yexo
20:58:28  <Tera> Yexo: so that is, I can update to 18816 in any minutes now? ;)
20:58:40  <planetmaker> you'll be notified here, tera
20:58:47  <planetmaker> Just wait for the commit message to show
20:58:55  <Tera> I know. I was just teasing Yexo.
21:00:53  <Yexo> Tera: there you go :)
21:00:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18816 /trunk/src/ (airport.cpp airport.h): -Fix (r18807): getting the catchment area of oilrigs triggered an assert
21:01:07  <Tera> pulling
21:01:13  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: better breaking the nightly than a release :)
21:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you mean like 0.4.6? :)
21:02:18  <Tera> Yexo: Confirmed. It's a fix. Savegame is happy now as well.
21:02:39  <Yexo> good :)
21:02:45  <Yexo> if you find any more problems please do report them
21:03:16  <Tera> heh.. frankly speaking this is the first *obvious* bug I've ever had with OpenTTD
21:03:21  <frosch123> [21:58] <Eddi|zuHause> we should retract Yexo's commit rights, he broke the same nightly two different ways :p <- yup, that is highly ineffective. he could have saved the other for a different nightly
21:03:23  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: 0.7.4?
21:03:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i haven't followed that...
21:04:21  <Yexo> Tera: oh, there have been quite a few over time, but generally the 'obvious' bugs get fixed fast
21:04:56  <Tera> Yexo: just been lucky then :)
21:05:15  <Eddi|zuHause> depends if the symptom is obvious, or the solution is obvious ;)
21:05:20  *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@2002:4e33:328c:1:4b0:6f63:75fd:915a] has joined #openttd
21:08:56  *** arachnist [] has joined #openttd
21:08:58  <arachnist> hi
21:09:16  <frosch123> hello spiderman
21:09:22  *** sawtooth [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:09:35  *** sawtooth [] has joined #openttd
21:11:06  <arachnist> <| you can hit weird bugs when bored ;)
21:11:33  <Eddi|zuHause> arachnist: it's a feature.
21:12:09  <arachnist> Eddi|zuHause: really?
21:12:11  <ajmiles> i remember trying to see how many train engines I could get on one loop of rail once when bored
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21:12:28  <Eddi|zuHause> arachnist: yes, really
21:12:36  *** Splex [] has joined #openttd
21:12:42  <Eddi|zuHause> arachnist: it's already a feature since TTO
21:12:52  <Tera> arachnist: that's like.. old
21:13:05  <frosch123> arachnist: considering the newspaper you could post it into the ottd comedy thread
21:13:45  <ajmiles>
21:14:00  <ajmiles> pretty sure getting 10 in there is impossible
21:14:05  <Rubidium> arachnist:
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21:14:28  <arachnist> ajmiles: lol
21:15:01  <ajmiles> got to time pressing the Start button just right :)
21:15:27  <ajmiles> and hope you've got breakdowns off
21:18:07  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss]
21:26:18  <Eddi|zuHause> # I put my hands around your neck
21:26:25  <Eddi|zuHause> # you wrap your arms around me
21:27:04  <Luukland> You dont speak my Dialect?
21:29:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Luukland: you mean "funny german"? :p
21:33:02  <Yexo> I think the code can now parse the format defined in
21:33:13  <Yexo> now a test grf and some code to actually use the parsed data
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21:33:49  <frosch123> :o
21:36:52  <Yexo> oh, same id with different language
21:37:46  <Alberth> more people seem to have sleepless nights :)
21:38:33  <Tera> oh, that's because OpenTTD is around
21:38:47  * Tera blames Canada
21:38:52  <Eddi|zuHause> night? where?
21:39:24  <Belugas> what?
21:40:00  <Alberth>
21:40:55  <Rubidium> sleepless nights? What's that concept?
21:41:11  <Belugas> it's called overtime
21:43:00  <Belugas> which i'm not yet in
21:43:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i can wrap my mind around sleepless, but what is this "night" concept you speak of?
21:44:57  <Rubidium> it's that time of the day not a lot people speak and if they speak they generally leave within a few minutes after asking what they were about to ask
21:45:11  <Rubidium> (or asking whether they may ask what they were about to ask)
21:45:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that's all the time on irc...
21:46:00  <Alberth> irc is used all over the world
21:46:04  <Eddi|zuHause> so you say every time i join irc it is night?
21:46:55  <Alberth> I suppose so
21:46:59  <Eddi|zuHause> so why don't they call the night irc instead?
21:48:07  <Alberth> since when is there logic in human languages?
21:48:14  <Yexo> because you might as well call the morning irc
21:48:43  <Alberth> that would be confusing, wouldn't it
21:48:53  <__ln>
21:49:02  <Luukland> Some random spamlink
21:49:15  <__ln> where?
21:49:21  <Luukland> night irc = too long, you forgot about the KISS principle
21:49:21  <Alberth> I don't think OpenTTD runs on that
21:49:41  <__ln> yet
21:49:57  <Alberth> we'd need black and white sprites
21:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln: so when can we expect your port to be finished?
21:50:34  <sawtooth> we've got black and white for the newspapers...
21:50:46  <__ln> tuesday of 2011
21:51:03  <Luukland> the first or last tuesday?
21:51:32  <Belugas> my newspapers are in color.  The sudoku part is in white and black, tough
21:51:33  <Alberth> sawtooth: right, that should be easy
21:52:10  <sawtooth> company colors might get a bit confusing though
21:52:25  <sawtooth> i'm gray!  me too!
21:52:43  <Alberth> just play a single player game :)
21:53:24  * andythenorth goes to battle with text stack again
21:53:32  <Eddi|zuHause> sawtooth: not more confusing than enabling custom company colours for all companies
21:56:49  <Luukland> I remember some game where the max companies was 15+, but some had the same colors
21:57:06  <Luukland> does anyone know the name of this game/patch?
21:59:55  * andythenorth has his ass handed to him by the text stack
22:00:31  *** Sevalecan [Sevalecan@] has joined #openttd
22:00:43  <Sevalecan> \o/
22:01:01  <Rubidium> andythenorth: the text stack is fun!
22:01:08  <andythenorth> umm
22:01:09  <andythenorth> no
22:01:20  <andythenorth> I didn't document my existing code, which was dumb
22:01:50  <Rubidium> andythenorth: and all those people that say that the code explains itself :)
22:02:04  <Sevalecan> you know, the bug report thing said to make sure I have the latest stable or the trunk.. does that mean they don't want bug reports for the latest testing? :P
22:02:15  * andythenorth checks if nfo looks *anything* like python.....nope
22:02:24  <Luukland> wwopenTTDgd, found it, now I must find the binary for it :S
22:03:06  <Rubidium> Sevalecan: in general we want bug reports for testing too, although the betas are just glorified nightlies (read: trunk versions)
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22:03:55  <Alberth> good irc
22:04:03  <frosch123> night albert
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22:04:57  <Rubidium> Sevalecan: progress w.r.t. bug fixing the betas goes pretty fast, so it's quite likely that it's already fixed in the more recent nightlies.
22:05:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Luukland: which part of wwottdgd are you talking about?
22:05:22  <Rubidium> Sevalecan: and that brings me to: what's the bug actually? Something with CanPlantTreeOnTile?
22:05:38  <Luukland> Hmmm, I am wrong here Eddi, I thought that they had a max company hack
22:05:44  <Luukland> yet they only had the max client patch
22:05:52  <Rubidium> Sevalecan: and what bug report thing are you speaking about?
22:05:52  <Sevalecan> nah, just after a while of the game running (like 10-15 minutes or so, I didn't count) sound starts being accompanied by static
22:05:55  <Luukland> so that brings me back to square 1
22:06:09  <Rubidium> Sevalecan: what OS?
22:06:14  <Luukland> Sevalecan? are u on a laptop?
22:06:28  <Sevalecan> and I asked because it didn't mention testing versions under "what to do when you find a bug" here:
22:06:31  <Sevalecan> gentoo linux x86
22:06:37  <Sevalecan> no I'm not on a laptop
22:06:50  <Rubidium> Sevalecan: using pulseaudio?
22:07:00  <Sevalecan> heh
22:07:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Luukland: the company/client maximum has been increased since then
22:07:06  <Sevalecan> no, I loathe pulseaudio ;)
22:07:11  <Luukland> Well, try to unplug the power cord
22:07:17  <Sevalecan> it wasn't doing this in 0.7.5
22:07:28  <Luukland> Its an issue with laptops that the static from the battery can interfere with audio
22:07:38  <Luukland> You just have a crappy laptop then :P
22:07:40  <Rubidium> Sevalecan: allegro or sdl?
22:07:43  <Luukland> Eddi, yeah I see
22:08:16  <Sevalecan> Rubidium: does it choose one by default if they are both found?
22:08:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Luukland: and increasing it furhter is extremely unlikely, and probably very difficult
22:08:59  <Luukland> I know the matter Eddi, I know it is difficult, but for everything there is a solution
22:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Sevalecan: default should be sdl, but the config can override that
22:09:18  <Sevalecan> I didn't pass any option to override when running ./configure
22:09:42  <Sevalecan> but ./configure tells me it's passing -DWITH_SDL and -DWITH_ALLEGRO and linking to both.
22:09:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Sevalecan: check "openttd -h" and openttd.cfg
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22:10:24  <Rubidium> anyhow, try with -s sdl / -s allegro to figure out which of the two causes the problem
22:10:37  <Ammler> oh frosch123 is around, did you revert decimal ID column I added to the BaseCosts wiki?
22:11:07  <frosch123> no, is it gone?
22:11:40  <Ammler> the history is a bit silly
22:11:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18817 /extra/website/frontpage/templates/frontpage/development.html: [Website] -Change: also mention testing releases for reporting bugs
22:12:00  <frosch123> euh, broken tiki :p
22:12:06  <Sevalecan> heh, ok
22:12:21  * Belugas is gone . night night
22:12:28  * andythenorth runs away from text stack.  something for another day.
22:12:31  <andythenorth> real nfo coders don't need debug info anyway
22:12:43  <Rubidium> night Belugas, happy weekend
22:12:46  *** Gforce [] has joined #openttd
22:13:05  <Luukland> hi hi Gforce
22:13:11  <Luukland> Experiencing some problems?
22:13:13  <Ammler> frosch123: I added a decimal columns like but now it is again an old version on top, I don't see who edited
22:13:14  <Gforce> hi luuk
22:13:23  <Gforce> een beetje veel problemen
22:13:43  <Ammler> but then I try again, maybe it was just a mistake of someone
22:13:51  <Gforce> kan op geen 1 spel connectiemaken
22:13:53  <Luukland> Aye aye, English channel here
22:13:55  <Luukland> so please :)
22:13:58  <Gforce> ok right
22:14:09  <Gforce> no connection on all servers
22:14:15  <Luukland> Yeah, I noticed
22:14:18  <Luukland> nothing I can do
22:14:28  <Gforce> fugas sleeping? :)
22:14:43  <Gforce> don't u have remote control?
22:14:50  <Luukland> Fugas = Getting drunk
22:14:59  <Luukland> And I have no remote unfortuanitly
22:15:07  <Gforce> ok that's cheep in tjechie
22:15:17  <Gforce> shame
22:15:27  <Luukland> Yeah, better try again tomorrow
22:15:33  <Luukland> and go and have some cheap fun now :)
22:15:37  <Gforce> or later tonight :)
22:15:50  <Gforce> u still playing?
22:15:57  <Luukland> Nope, I am going for some sleep I think
22:16:01  <Luukland> nothing more I can do
22:16:08  <Gforce> that's true
22:16:19  <Gforce> or play on another server :>)
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22:16:39  <Luukland> Ex's is a nice server to play on :)
22:16:48  <Gforce> yeah i did try it
22:17:05  <Gforce> a nice one is strategy board
22:17:22  <Luukland> Yeah, contacted the admin there, never got a responce :p
22:17:34  <Gforce> only one hard game but a lovely site
22:17:54  <Gforce> i think its dutch to but am not sure
22:18:38  <Gforce>
22:18:56  <Luukland> this site drove me nuts :P
22:19:09  <Gforce> yeah the window thinghy
22:19:30  <Gforce> thats a shame but nice online stats
22:19:41  <Luukland> Yeap
22:19:43  <Gforce> also who's playing
22:20:01  <Gforce> maybe something for u to implement
22:20:14  <Luukland> Yeah, we are working on the buddylist, so you can see if your friend plays where ;)
22:20:22  <Luukland> (friend/friends)
22:20:48  <Gforce> as i told u no friends only vage kennissen
22:20:57  <Gforce> :0
22:21:13  <Luukland> You should get some more friends then
22:21:31  <Luukland> anyhow, if you have more questions, use the server channel, I am going for some rest
22:21:38  *** Luukland [] has quit [Quit: OpenTTD Campaign, OpenTTD servers;]
22:22:03  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18818 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp engine_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3526] (r18766): some train acceleration type conversions were missed
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22:29:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18819 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Change [FS#3493]: be consistent with airport naming
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22:49:28  <Sevalecan> well
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22:49:52  <Sevalecan> with -s sdl it acted up after 12-13 minutes or so, I've had it running longer with allegro and no problems
22:51:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember a similar report a few months ago, not sure if they are related...
22:52:37  <Rubidium> wasn't that with pulse?
22:55:42  <Rubidium> Sevalecan: does increasing (by a factor 2, possibly factor 4) of the value spec.samples in src/sdl_s.cpp help?
22:57:23  <DaleStan> Ammler: The revert of VehicleIDs was done at a level no mere user can achieve. My current guess is that a backup was restored.
22:58:12  <Sevalecan> I'll check
22:58:58  *** gforce [] has joined #openttd
22:59:17  <gforce>  /j #goulp
22:59:36  <gforce> #goulp
23:00:26  *** gforce [] has quit []
23:00:33  <Sevalecan> You are now in #goulp, the topic is 'T$#&YWJU^W$KIJ%EEEE'
23:00:52  <Sevalecan> set on Oct 46 1998
23:01:11  <Sevalecan> oh, he's gone.
23:01:22  <fjb> :-)
23:03:40  <planetmaker> Luukland: good luck finding the binaries :-P
23:03:59  <planetmaker> oh... I'm 1h behind :-P
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23:32:18  <Sevalecan> Rubidium: seems that multiplying spec.samples by 2 stops the static from occuring (it usually would have happened by this point)
23:36:30  <Rubidium> now the only question is whether making that value higher makes the lag of the sounds annoying
23:36:43  <Yexo> z` -> :)
23:37:31  <Yexo>  ugly code
23:38:09  <Sevalecan> I'm not perceiving any lag of sound from that, though when I tried allegro earlier I thought I noticed some then.
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23:45:39  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18820 /trunk/src/sound/sdl_s.cpp: -Codechange: [SDL] make the number of samples runtime configurable and increase the default slightly
23:47:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18821 /trunk/src/sound/allegro_s.cpp: -Codechange: [Allegro] make the frequency and number of samples runtime configurable
23:47:57  <Rubidium> Sevalecan: trunk should now behave slightly better
23:48:30  * Sevalecan grabs it and tries it out \o/
23:49:14  <sawtooth> i would sometimes get a bit of static so I'll test that some time tomorrow
23:49:29  <Sevalecan> what do you expect with a name like that?
23:49:41  <Sevalecan> </bad joke>
23:49:49  <sawtooth> heh
23:50:42  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
23:50:55  <Eddi|zuHause> after translating it to german, i actually get the joke :p
23:51:59  <peter1138> a totally different joke, no doubt
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23:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause> "sawtooth" as in the shape of an oscillation curve, vs. "static noise"?
23:55:12  <Eddi|zuHause> dang... i should not have enabled the bios setting "shut down hard drives after 10 minutes"
23:55:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it scares the hell out of me!

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