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00:00:58 *** Kinoshita [a@wl206022.jaist.ac.jp] has left #openttd [] 00:07:40 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-165-155-23.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 00:09:27 <Zuu> Pikka: So then you have to decide if writing a crawler program is creative work or not 00:10:14 <Zuu> But since software is copyrightable, I guess it is creative work. 00:11:19 <Zuu> Hmm actually, the "you may not compete with google" agreement do not exist in the terms for Gmail. However it does exist for Google Maps API. 00:13:04 <Wolf01> 'night 00:13:11 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host197-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:22:26 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:37:55 *** Sacro_ [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 00:37:56 *** Sacro_ [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [] 00:38:04 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has joined #openttd 00:47:24 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc3-pres13-2-0-cust333.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 00:48:09 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has left #openttd [] 00:49:06 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:51b2:b984:830f:c44e] has quit [Quit: *schiel*] 00:53:12 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 00:54:13 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:54:53 <Pikka> Zuu: the copyright status of the program and the copyright status of the output of the program are not necessarily the same. :) bye for now! 00:54:58 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 01:07:46 *** clum [clum@92.20.110.105] has quit [] 01:18:23 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:23:27 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-20-80.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:32:10 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c282.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:01 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 02:11:46 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has joined #openttd 02:14:03 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has left #openttd [] 02:22:55 *** fjb is now known as Guest3144 02:22:56 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:24:55 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-148-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:25:27 *** Zalon [~zalon@x1-6-00-c0-9f-6f-af-6a.k508.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 02:29:40 *** Guest3144 [~frank@p5485ADF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:30:54 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-155-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:03:10 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:13a:891c:a58b:a7c] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:05:22 *** nitta [53260c2b@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 03:14:11 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-21-69.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:01 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 04:14:36 *** nitta [53260c2b@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:56:06 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77BE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75179.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:02:00 *** abez [~abez@206-248-139-25.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 05:25:29 *** mib_62mgqo [5ab05cb1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:26:25 *** mib_62mgqo [5ab05cb1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 05:37:29 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 05:52:18 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-86fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:57:12 <Terkhen> good morning 06:04:22 <dih> morning 06:16:16 <__ln__> agreed 06:28:06 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 06:28:33 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:37:33 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:41:41 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe34dc00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:28:48 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has joined #openttd 07:37:31 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: hinstance] 07:39:11 *** pavel1269 [~pavel1269@r11kx196.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 07:47:43 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has joined #openttd 07:51:42 *** pavel1269 [~pavel1269@r11kx196.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: ^^] 08:20:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20160 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Merge: changelog updates from the 1.0 branch 08:21:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20161 /branches/1.0/ (changelog.txt known-bugs.txt readme.txt): [1.0] -Backport from trunk: documentation (known bugs/readme) updates 08:24:28 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:26:42 *** Celestar [~vici@89.204.153.72] has joined #openttd 08:26:46 <Celestar> morning :D 08:27:27 <Rubidium> gooooooooood morning "neighbour" 08:27:48 <Celestar> lol 08:27:55 <Celestar> there are about 5 states in between 08:29:02 <Rubidium> what? You aren't in Germany? 08:30:20 <Rubidium> even then... celestially speaking we'd be living in the same place 08:31:03 * Rubidium wonders whether to laugh or cry about openSUSE's release announcement 08:31:19 <Celestar> well. 08:31:21 <Celestar> german states 08:31:24 <Celestar> not countries 08:31:28 <Celestar> what's the release annoucement_ 08:31:37 <Rubidium> http://news.opensuse.org/2010/07/15/opensuse-11-3-is-here/ 08:31:48 <Rubidium> though especially the "Users can expect to see improved hardware support with the 2.6.34 Linux kernel and updated graphics drivers." part 08:32:13 <Celestar> heh 08:32:19 <Celestar> updated graphics drivers 08:32:34 <Rubidium> especially with AMD's efforts to remove support for their older video cards in their updated graphics drivers 08:32:36 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host197-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:32:37 <Celestar> wtb [working AT?Md drivers] 08:32:40 <Celestar> AMD* 08:32:51 <Celestar> well the open source radeon driver is pretty good 08:32:56 <Wolf01> hello 08:33:05 <Rubidium> Celestar: it wasn't about 2 months ago 08:33:41 <Celestar> it worked for me 08:33:46 <Celestar> except PowerPlay 08:34:02 <Celestar> but not matter what I do, I can't properly playback 1080i videos 08:34:27 <Rubidium> have you tried mplayer -cache 1048576 <video file> ? 08:34:41 <Celestar> yeah 08:34:46 <Celestar> I get 3-4 fps 08:34:49 <Celestar> the rest is dropped 08:34:50 <Rubidium> ouch... 08:34:52 <Celestar> due to CPU overload 08:35:06 <Rubidium> so EXA doesn't work as it should?!? 08:35:18 <Celestar> EXA being? 08:35:29 <Rubidium> for me the open source driver causes the screen to annoyingly flicker 08:35:40 <Celestar> kaffeine is managing about 12-15 fps 08:35:46 <Celestar> using fglrx 08:36:24 <Rubidium> Celestar: EXA is a graphics acceleration architecture of the X.Org Server (see also X Window System) designed to replace XAA [1] (the XFree86 Acceleration Architecture) and to make the XRender extension more usable, 08:36:45 <Celestar> and you check whether this works how? 08:37:11 <Celestar> it's nice to know that #openttd is still more helpful than #ubuntu, #opensuse, #amd, #gnome and #mplayer combined >< 08:37:48 <Rubidium> what does xvinfo tell you? 08:39:08 <Celestar> concerning EXA? nothing 08:40:29 <Rubidium> nah, just in general, as "xv" is something for faster videoplayback (or so) 08:40:52 <Rubidium> I can't remember what it shows when there is no xv, as thus videoplayback will be horrible 08:41:02 <Celestar> there is xv 08:41:07 <Celestar> I play almost everything fine 08:41:11 <Celestar> afaik even 1080p videos 08:41:17 <Rubidium> not sure whether it has anything to do with speed of playback or inability of scaling 08:41:17 <Celestar> only 1080i make issues 08:42:31 <Rubidium> hmm, let me find a 1080i piece of video to test 08:43:50 <Celestar> hm. 08:45:55 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:49:41 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4DFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:49:46 <Celestar> pft 08:49:51 <Celestar> I have no 1080p video here 08:56:24 <Celestar> yep 1080p plays fine 08:57:11 <Celestar> cpu load way below 100% on a single core. 08:57:15 <Celestar> dunno what's wrong with 1080i 08:57:20 <Celestar> well gotta transcode a lot of shit 08:59:58 <planetmaker> hm... shouldn't we rename the 'TTDPatch flags' to something more suitable? 09:00:11 <planetmaker> Same reason as the patch settings were renamed to adv. settings? 09:00:33 <planetmaker> like "global flags" or alike? 09:01:54 <Rubidium> what's more suitable than the name from the specification? 09:01:58 <Rubidium> i.e. http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=TTDPatchFlags 09:02:38 <Celestar> maybe I should try a game of cargodist 09:03:20 <Rubidium> 1080i seems to work fine with AMD's drivers 09:03:26 <Celestar> hm. is DBSet XL downloadable? 09:03:42 <Celestar> Rubidium: what are you using as backend? gstreamer? mplayer? 09:03:44 <Rubidium> if you know where to find it 09:03:47 <Rubidium> Celestar: mplayer 09:03:51 <planetmaker> Rubidium: I know that link well. But still it doesn't make sense in an OpenTTD context 09:04:19 <Rubidium> and it's not quite the backend of mplayer as I'm using just mplayer from the console, not some crap around it 09:04:27 <Celestar> Rubidium: and where would that be? 09:04:29 <planetmaker> call them OpenTTD flags and it'd make sense 09:04:44 <Celestar> grfcrawler is making issues 09:04:55 <Rubidium> planetmaker: WHO would be using the flags? 09:05:15 <planetmaker> newgrf authors 09:05:21 <Rubidium> would ANY "just playing" user encounter them, besides from seeing them in the changelog 09:05:50 <Rubidium> planetmaker: so better keep it named as it is instead of trying to rename it and make it only more unclear what is meant 09:06:09 <Rubidium> hell, OpenTTD even says it has a particular TTDPatch version 09:06:32 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaafa8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:06:52 <planetmaker> TTDPatch flags is not very descriptive 09:06:54 <Rubidium> hmm... download an almost 1 GB 1080i sample and it doesn't even work :( 09:07:02 <Rubidium> planetmaker: and OpenTTD flags is? 09:07:14 <planetmaker> so it's already confusing as it is. And that's why I proposed 'global flags' 09:07:31 <planetmaker> or switches 09:08:15 <Rubidium> well, if you want its name changed... talk to the NewGRF community about it :) 09:08:53 <Rubidium> I'm not sure how much they fancy renaming stuff 09:09:01 <planetmaker> :-) 09:13:35 <Celestar> hm. 09:13:37 <Celestar> no sound O_o 09:15:50 <Celestar> aha .. 09:16:10 <Celestar> is there any kind of "recommended AI" 09:16:38 <Rubidium> with cargodist? I'm not sure whether any will manage 09:17:09 <Celestar> true 09:17:12 <Celestar> :P 09:17:24 <SpComb> Celestar: ottdcoop grf pack has DBSetXL 09:18:11 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-86fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 09:18:14 * SpComb pesters some ottdcoop people to update it 09:18:32 <planetmaker> the grfpack? yeah 09:18:35 <planetmaker> somewhen 09:18:41 <SpComb> that isn't a word 09:18:52 <planetmaker> the update will be to remove stuff 09:19:03 <planetmaker> so the urgency is very low 09:19:03 <Celestar> is there still the Urban Renewal Kit somehwere? 09:19:12 <planetmaker> Celestar: on bannas? 09:19:16 <SpComb> e.g. germanrv could do with an update, iirc 09:19:33 <planetmaker> SpComb: could. But then he could upload to bananas. 09:19:34 <Celestar> planetmaker: what's your favourite town set? default? 09:19:41 <planetmaker> Celestar: swedish 09:20:01 * Celestar gives that a shot 09:20:08 <planetmaker> SpComb and as such we won't update it. 09:20:17 * Celestar hopes for env support to fix fucking clearcase :S 09:20:21 <SpComb> bananas killed the grf packs 09:20:24 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:20:35 <planetmaker> SpComb: yes, it did. But that's no hurt 09:21:00 <planetmaker> that was the plan actually 09:21:35 *** BCMM [~ben@78.32.73.127] has joined #openttd 09:21:49 <BCMM> What is the "other" in the finances window? 09:22:05 <Celestar> everything that doesn't fit anywhere else? :P 09:22:24 <planetmaker> trees. bribes,... 09:22:32 <Zuu> Annual company fee 09:23:01 <Celestar> building industries too 09:23:35 * Celestar likes the original music set :D 09:24:24 <planetmaker> :-( 09:24:49 * Zuu likes it too 09:24:50 <Rubidium> SpComb: but it's likely that more people are now using NewGRFs and the likes because of bananas 09:24:54 <fonsinchen> admiral does fairly OK with cargodist. Sometimes it crashes, though. 09:26:13 <Celestar> heya fonsinchen 09:26:50 <Zuu> hmm, but isn't admiral ai (as most other ais) building point to point connections? 09:26:54 <BCMM> Zuu: that explains why it's the same every year for all companies 09:27:10 <Zuu> Ie no more than one destination is provided for cargo. 09:27:22 <fonsinchen> hi 09:27:27 <BCMM> what are the conditions for bankruptcy? 09:27:45 <Zuu> < 0 for some time 09:27:58 <fonsinchen> it will build point to point, but sometimes it reuses stations, then you get some transfers 09:28:17 <BCMM> Zuu: balance, or including loans? 09:28:27 <Zuu> fonsinchen: Ah ok 09:28:28 <BCMM> Zuu: i mean, one can avoid bankruptcy by borrowing? 09:28:35 <SpComb> does cd provide the AIs with info on the available destinations for cargo etc? 09:28:50 <Zuu> BCMM: Yes you can avoid bankruptcy by borrowing. 09:28:54 <BCMM> ah 09:28:59 <fonsinchen> no, there is no AI API for cargodist, yet 09:30:26 <BCMM> it's slightly annoying, since i have four AIs that have basically no assets, very slowly losing money due to loans 09:30:32 <BCMM> and taking ages to disappear 09:30:48 <planetmaker> then kill the AIs 09:30:57 <Zuu> Which AIs is it? 09:30:58 <planetmaker> in console: stop_ai # 09:31:07 <planetmaker> with # being the company number 09:31:20 <BCMM> Zuu: choochoo and admiral 09:31:36 <planetmaker> BCMM: but you have to give those AIs time to plan 09:31:46 <planetmaker> they sometimes take years to come up with stuff 09:32:02 <BCMM> planetmaker: they built stuff, i competed with them and they closed their services 09:32:12 <BCMM> planetmaker: now they are running out of money really slowly 09:32:17 <Zuu> You can open the AI Debug window to get an idea of the current state of them. 09:32:29 <planetmaker> be nice to them, don't compete unless they have a sound income ;-) 09:33:01 <Zuu> But in that case the are probably thinkning that they do not have enough money to invest at the moment. 09:33:07 <BCMM> by the way, is there a decent way to run a transfer service for cargoes like mail, passengers and valuables where you'll be returning with the same cargo? 09:33:20 <BCMM> e.g. passengers between an oilrig and an inland town 09:33:27 <Zuu> Not really 09:33:38 <BCMM> if you do transfer and full load, it just takes the passengers back where they came from 09:33:39 <Zuu> Apart from having two transfer-points 09:33:46 <Zuu> One for each direction 09:34:00 <Zuu> And have the vehicles from the oilrig go in a triangle 09:34:01 <BCMM> a somewhat annoying solution 09:34:22 <Zuu> The other solution is to use Cargodist 09:34:30 <BCMM> what is cargodist? 09:35:44 <Zuu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41992 09:37:33 <Celestar> that may be a hertic question .. but .. is autorenew/autoreplace working? :P 09:37:47 *** dfox [~dfox@r3ah113.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 09:37:56 *** oniik [~Alexander@171.85-200-14.bkkb.no] has joined #openttd 09:37:57 <planetmaker> afaik yes 09:38:10 <planetmaker> last times I used autoreplace it was doing its job 09:38:16 <planetmaker> I hardly need autoreplace, though 09:38:59 <Celestar> "you do it manually" :P 09:39:03 <oniik> good morning Slartibartfast 09:42:16 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8df22.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:42:40 <oniik> planetmaker: not a big Douglas Adams fan? 09:43:17 <planetmaker> ? 09:43:45 <oniik> Slartibartfast is the name of the guy who makes planets in Hitchhikers 09:44:01 <planetmaker> yes... so what? 09:44:30 <oniik> so it was a reference to your nick.. nm 09:44:43 <planetmaker> yes. And I was not watching IRC window 09:45:01 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-21-69.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 09:46:07 <planetmaker> but indeed I would not have recognized the name... too long ago I read it to remember all strange names there except arthur and marvin ;-) 09:46:13 <planetmaker> and ford 09:47:17 <planetmaker> but the fjords really deserved the price ;-) 09:47:17 <Celestar> hehe 09:47:34 <oniik> indeed they did. im lucky in that I live in the country of those fjords 09:48:00 * planetmaker is happy to be there in a fortnight 09:54:50 <peter1138> hmm... 09:55:07 <peter1138> how can i test if a pthread_t handle is valid? 09:58:46 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-53-171.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:59:19 <peter1138> hmm, a guard variable, i suppose. 10:01:17 <__ln__> the first time i see anyone using the word 'fortnight' on irc 10:01:53 *** oniik [~Alexander@171.85-200-14.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:02:58 <peter1138> also, are pthread mutexes slow? 10:03:54 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.42.146] has joined #openttd 10:07:15 <BCMM> what is the right way to convert a whole rail network to maglev? 10:07:37 <BCMM> does one have to sell and manually recreate each train? 10:08:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B639.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:08:28 <Markk> Yes 10:08:59 <Markk> The tracks are convertablr, but not the trains. 10:09:05 <planetmaker> __ln__: a far too seldom used word given its beauty ;-) 10:09:37 <__ln__> yeah, it's a cool word :) 10:10:17 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-20-80.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 10:13:39 <Rubidium> 18:29 < ln> *fortnight 10:15:17 <__ln__> i exclude myself from the set of 'anyone' 10:17:57 <Rubidium> 21:03 < Celestar> peter1138: I'll be on the road from friday on for about a fortnight, I'd love to have most things done by then (= <- and there was a ln talking to Bjarni just before that 10:19:06 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:30 <peter1138> You keep logs for a long time, eh? 10:20:51 <Rubidium> just never bothered truncating them 10:21:21 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaafa8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:44 * andythenorth ponders 10:36:44 *** Celestar_ [~vici@89.204.153.65] has joined #openttd 10:37:11 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:37:53 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:38:31 *** Celestar [~vici@89.204.153.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:41:18 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-20-80.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro] 10:41:40 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-20-80.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 10:42:39 *** BCMM [~ben@78.32.73.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:49:55 <andythenorth> @seen pikka 10:49:55 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 9 hours, 55 minutes, and 1 second ago: <Pikka> Zuu: the copyright status of the program and the copyright status of the output of the program are not necessarily the same. :) bye for now! 10:49:57 *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar 10:55:44 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.20.167] has joined #openttd 10:59:25 *** functionofxy__ [~functiono@pool-72-79-87-120.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:15:11 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:35 *** sparr [sparr@c-24-98-228-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39:43 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.202] has joined #openttd 11:45:12 *** DX_Ipad [Dreamxtrem@92.10.85.141] has quit [Quit: IRC is just multiplayer notepad] 11:50:08 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@92.10.85.141] has joined #openttd 11:52:42 * andythenorth ponders 11:52:47 <andythenorth> shall we make something today? 11:53:52 <welshdragon> andythenorth: want to help the UK Bus Set? 11:54:20 <andythenorth> nope 11:54:22 <andythenorth> :P 11:54:29 <andythenorth> what do you need help with? 11:54:43 <welshdragon> Graphics xD 11:54:46 <welshdragon> we have none 11:54:46 <andythenorth> nah 11:54:55 <andythenorth> what do you have? 11:55:09 <andythenorth> @seen frosch123 11:55:09 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 15 hours, 35 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <frosch123> night 11:55:28 <welshdragon> andythenorth: a tracking table, that's about it... 11:55:39 <andythenorth> good luck :) 11:55:49 <welshdragon> heh 11:55:52 <welshdragon> we'll need it 11:56:01 <welshdragon> s/we/i'll 11:56:19 <welshdragon> The only 'contrubutor' at prsent seems to be me 11:56:39 <andythenorth> welshdragon: no politics to slow you down then :) 11:56:43 <andythenorth> just get on and make the set 11:56:51 <andythenorth> all buses look the same to me anyway 11:57:01 <andythenorth> it's just a block of cheese with four wheel 11:57:02 <andythenorth> s 11:57:43 <welshdragon> lol 12:01:18 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: know much about vehicle movement code? I am coding a road-rail vehicle. 12:01:43 <andythenorth> suspect that a *true* road-rail vehicle will never happen 12:01:47 <andythenorth> hmm 12:02:00 <andythenorth> what if road types and rail types were just road-rail types? 12:02:08 <andythenorth> peter1138: ^ stupid idea, right? 12:02:21 <peter1138> yes 12:02:28 <andythenorth> thought so 12:02:46 <andythenorth> no street running trackage then :P 12:02:49 <planetmaker> <welshdragon> The only 'contrubutor' at prsent seems to be me <-- then you could go like andy did initially with fish: 12:03:02 <planetmaker> use block graphics only. But implement the code already 12:03:09 *** clum [clum@92.6.89.75] has joined #openttd 12:03:11 <andythenorth> welshdragon: not a bad route 12:03:16 <planetmaker> not at all 12:03:23 <welshdragon> planetmaker: yeah, We'll do that 12:03:26 <andythenorth> is the bus thing a gameplay set, or eye candy? 12:03:37 <welshdragon> gameplay set 12:03:37 <planetmaker> graphics is then something you'll get. Or you could use others and then call it <whatever busses> 12:04:00 <andythenorth> welshdragon: in that case do the block graphics. You can balance the set before wasting pixels on vehicles that you end up deleting 12:04:32 <planetmaker> yep. Just make the blocks differently coloured. If you like using re-colour sprites. Then you have learnt how to use that, too ;-) 12:05:17 <welshdragon> hmm 12:05:47 <welshdragon> any idea how many sprites zephyris used in eGRVTS on the _ ? 12:05:55 <welshdragon> (min/average/max) 12:06:00 <andythenorth> ? 12:06:39 <welshdragon> the flat facing views, not the diagonals 12:06:51 <andythenorth> 2 per vehicle I would assume 12:07:08 <welshdragon> bah 12:07:15 <andythenorth> why? 12:07:15 <welshdragon> i meant pixels 12:07:20 <welshdragon> not sprites xD 12:07:37 <welshdragon> as that's the scale being used by the set 12:07:37 <andythenorth> decomp and have a look (I'm looking now though) 12:07:52 <andythenorth> FWIW, when I get around to BANDIT it will be smaller 12:08:10 <andythenorth> if you use eGRVTS you are out of scale with UKRS, and *way* out of scale with UKRS 2 12:08:27 <andythenorth> hmm 12:08:28 <welshdragon> yeah, I know 12:08:34 <andythenorth> can't open eGRVTS pcx 12:09:04 <welshdragon> but at the smaller scales you'd not be able to distinguish buses that have similar bodies 12:09:12 * andythenorth shrugs 12:09:16 <andythenorth> such is life in pixels 12:09:42 <andythenorth> trust me, you'll end up being thankful for such shortcuts :) 12:09:54 <andythenorth> bus A and bus B can then look the same, which cuts drawing by 50% 12:09:55 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b04e:fef9:45a:2d0a] has joined #openttd 12:09:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:10:14 <welshdragon> yeah, i guess 12:10:21 * andythenorth contemplates learning to code rail vehicles 12:10:55 <andythenorth> what happens if I code a vehicle for narrow gauge, and there's no narrow gauge? 12:11:04 <andythenorth> player gets a monorail / maglev vehicle? 12:13:11 <peter1138> it disappears 12:13:29 <andythenorth> that would be fine by me 12:13:49 * andythenorth ponders 12:14:01 <andythenorth> is it irritating to have rail locomotives that have cargo capacity? 12:17:24 <planetmaker> <andythenorth> can't open eGRVTS pcx <-- the full pcx is part of OpenGFX repository 12:19:34 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:39 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8657.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:23:16 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 12:29:04 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-20-80.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro] 12:31:07 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8217d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:41 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 12:38:29 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaafa8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:43:58 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.20.167] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:58 <Noldo_> andythenorth: it depends, IMO locomotives with passenger capacity are ok unless the set is such that you'll end up using them for everything and not just passenger routes 12:49:30 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@f234099.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 12:54:25 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 12:58:26 *** laz [~lazzero@207-118-126-71.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #openttd 12:58:31 *** oniik [~Alexander@171.85-200-14.bkkb.no] has joined #openttd 13:03:05 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8657.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:04:29 <Belugas> oy oy all 13:11:46 *** hinstance [~hinstance@dmdhcp111-095.jaist.ac.jp] has joined #openttd 13:13:01 <Wolf01> hello Belugas 13:13:26 <peter1138> aw damn it, thread aborts too soon :( 13:19:03 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:26 <Belugas> hi Wolf01 :) 13:26:07 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaafa8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:29 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 13:28:02 <Sacro> morning all 13:28:04 * Sacro doffs hat 13:29:32 <Wolf01> good night Sacro 13:33:31 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:34:33 *** hinstance [~hinstance@dmdhcp111-095.jaist.ac.jp] has left #openttd [] 13:41:57 *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie 13:53:18 *** BCMM [~ben@78.32.73.127] has joined #openttd 13:54:11 <BCMM> when the wiki says "Town growth can be accelerated by loading and unloading at least one item of cargo at five stations within town influence within a two month period", does it mean specifically rail, or any kind of service? 13:54:30 *** laz [~lazzero@207-118-126-71.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:54:38 <planetmaker> any 13:55:16 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 13:55:43 <BCMM> so a bus running around five stops within a town ought to cause the town to grow? 13:56:32 <planetmaker> it will even grow without (if town growth is enabled). But yes, it will then grow faster 13:57:59 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 14:01:39 <BCMM> about how fast would one expect that to work? 14:01:43 <Belugas> mmh... 14:01:50 <Belugas> 7 is odd and 8 is even, right? 14:02:48 <Sacro> usually 14:03:21 <Belugas> thank you 14:03:50 <Belugas> BCMM, what about "noticeably faster" ? :) 14:03:56 <BCMM> OK 14:14:03 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e0a86d1.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:15:25 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:46 <planetmaker> and 2 is a truely odd prime 14:19:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0bf702.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:19:44 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 14:25:18 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8657.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:29:01 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i'm giving Shaka weapon technology to fight against my competitors... if that's not gonna backfire... 14:29:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it feels kinda like the taliban ;) 14:29:31 <BCMM> If part of an oil well is within a station's catchment, can the station receive all of the oil#? 14:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:32:43 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 14:35:33 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8217d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 14:36:09 * andythenorth ponders 14:36:11 <andythenorth> lego or newgrf? 14:41:52 <planetmaker> :-) 14:41:54 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has joined #openttd 14:41:59 <planetmaker> lego - newgrf maybe? 14:46:24 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff0da.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:50:48 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: I bought civilization IV complete edition when it went on sale two weeks ago... it feels similar to the original game :) 14:51:00 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8217d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:51:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: try playing the original game afterwards... you go mad :p 14:51:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and Civ IV Complete has been available for ~10⬠here for ages 14:53:26 <Terkhen> here I have never seen the complete pack... and each separated part was 10⬠:/ 14:53:43 <Terkhen> I finally bought it on steam 14:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not having enough health ressources... 14:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no sugar on the map, only one banana 14:55:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and the only person with two spices won't trade it to me 14:55:44 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-21-69.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:19 <Terkhen> I still don't know the game at that level... I'm still playing at the second dificulty level 14:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> sugar, spices, banana and wine give health bonus with the grocier. health is needed for large cities 14:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and of those four, i have only wine 14:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so i'm missing 3 health per city 14:58:30 <planetmaker> sounds healthy :-P 14:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i should focus on medicine 14:59:49 <Terkhen> give them more wine, they'll forget about the other stuff 14:59:52 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has left #openttd [] 15:05:35 <abez> So is openttd back in the app store? I went last night to a webpage on itunes that suggested it was. I must ask, why is it there? The App store terms of service for developers and for users violates the GPLv2 as far as I understand. 15:09:09 <Rubidium> IIRC it's GPLv2 that violates Apple's terms of service 15:10:48 <abez> I'm not sure what you mean. 15:11:28 <abez> Or is this a kind of argument analogous to if in physics, I hit you also hit me 15:12:58 <abez> Anyways I'm really surprised by the game communities lack of understanding about licensing and free software, they don't seem to understand that opensource is a gift that has terms to ensure everyone shares the same freedoms (at least with GPL et al.) 15:13:01 <Rubidium> Apple, by (re)distributing OpenTTD, implicitly complied with the GPLv2 license. If they do NOT want to comply with it, they should not distribute stuff under the GPLv2 license. They are aware that it is licensed under GPLv2. 15:13:39 <Lakie> Heh 15:13:40 <Rubidium> or at least they should be as I've had quite some conversations with them about the previous version not complying with GPLv2 15:13:57 <Lakie> In fairness a lot of people don't know much about lisencing. 15:14:21 *** Celestar [~vici@89.204.153.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:14:23 <Rubidium> Lakie: then Apple should talk to their lawyers 15:14:36 <Lakie> Well, I assume they would 15:14:41 <abez> Rubidium: the FSF goes further to say it wouldn't matter if the source code was released, that section 6 of GPLv2 is still being infringed upon 15:14:45 <Lakie> I meant average end-users 15:14:56 <abez> Rubidium: but I don't have the dev agreement or the user agreement 15:15:01 <abez> so I haven't checked 15:15:11 <Rubidium> abez: neither have I 15:15:22 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as the FSF doesn't sue apple, there's nothing happening about this... 15:15:22 <abez> and section 6 is about how more restrictions are not allowed to be applied 15:15:51 <abez> Eddi|zuHause: anyone who committed code that was GPL'd can sue (with legitimate reasons) 15:16:22 <abez> Eddi|zuHause: I doubt the FSF has any property in openttd (but again I didn't look) 15:16:23 <Lakie> Apple has the money for a court case, I doubt most developers do 15:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> abez: but do they have the means to pay the lawyers? 15:16:42 <abez> Eddi|zuHause: sure, so DMCA is cheaper 15:16:43 <Lakie> do not* 15:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that's precisely what the FSF is meant to do. you give them your rights, and they pay the lawyers 15:17:10 <abez> Eddi|zuHause: it is easier to submit a takedown rather than go through the process, but gpl-violations.org exists for a reason 15:17:28 <abez> Eddi|zuHause: in most cases they need to have your copyright 15:17:34 <abez> Eddi|zuHause: and they do want to see the GPL go to court 15:17:38 <abez> Eddi|zuHause: they enjoy that 15:17:43 <abez> (or seem to) 15:18:00 <abez> I'm not associated with the FSF so all I can say is what I think they might do/like to do 15:18:43 <abez> Rubidium: so what's your opinion on this, do you think it should be in the app store under the current apple agreements you've heard about? 15:19:16 <Rubidium> abez: hearsay isn't something you can base a takedown notice on 15:20:47 <abez> Rubidium: hearsay? If they are violating your license and thus your copyright you have every right to tell them not to distribute 15:21:09 <abez> I don't really understand this hearsay part 15:21:17 <abez> is it because you lack most of the agreements? 15:21:40 <Rubidium> I lack *all* agreements 15:21:53 <abez> And you are the primary developer of openttd? 15:22:01 <Rubidium> well, besides GPLv2 15:22:10 <Rubidium> abez: yes 15:22:26 <abez> (btw it is a very good game and I had to delete it because it was so distracting) 15:22:48 <Rubidium> and I'm not sure whether I'm the (all time) primary developer 15:23:22 <abez> So openttd has many source code contributors 15:23:25 <planetmaker> all-time can be pretty long. Especially towards the end 15:23:27 <Belugas> yes you are, sir, and we love you for that! 15:24:26 <abez> Rubidium: I don't think this ZTOD fellow understands that you can't un-GPL openttd w/o the permission of everyone who's work was incorporated into openttd (assuming you would do such a thing) 15:24:53 <Rubidium> heh... we got it removed once already 15:25:04 <Rubidium> (and a lot of people got quite pissed) 15:25:24 <abez> Well games people don't necessarily understand why OSS has to be so "legal" 15:25:31 <planetmaker> abez: getting everyone's permission... quite difficult, I think. Not every contributor is around (anymore) 15:25:40 <abez> IP is not well understood 15:26:07 <abez> planetmaker: pretty much and the traceability of all the code is not necessarily clear 15:26:08 <planetmaker> abez: you might make wrong assumptions on the knowledge of some people here on that matter ;-) 15:26:32 <abez> planetmaker: I bet that this channel and other OSS games channel have quite good knowledge about IP 15:26:34 <planetmaker> You might find that people in this channel / community usually take license issues quite serious 15:26:49 <abez> planetmaker: I mean the general gamer populace 15:27:00 <planetmaker> oh, yes. Then I do have to agree 15:27:23 <abez> planetmaker: no offense to you guys since you're one of the few communities with a truly opensource game instead of just non-commercial or lame freeware licensing 15:27:48 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=49255 <-- quite obvious, yes 15:27:58 <planetmaker> not everyone cares ;-) 15:28:06 <abez> planetmaker: what I'd love to see is some kind of gamer oriented website tutorial about the value of OSS and DFSG compatible licenses for games and assets 15:28:31 <planetmaker> dfsg? 15:28:33 <abez> planetmaker: game culture seems very accepting of proprietary solutions 15:28:39 <abez> debian free software guidelines 15:28:43 <planetmaker> ah 15:28:56 <planetmaker> well. They're ... very strict 15:28:58 <abez> itis more strict thatn the free software foundations definition of open 15:28:59 <abez> yeah 15:29:05 <abez> well they have to distribute assets too 15:29:06 <Rubidium> well... Debian didn't consider OpenTTD "main" material for a very long time 15:29:19 <abez> that's too bad 15:29:29 <abez> they have a lot of silly cruft in there and openttd is really nice 15:29:30 <planetmaker> proprietary graphics required 15:29:35 <Rubidium> abez: just take a look at the shit storm at http://www.zodttd.com/wp/2010/04/open-up-openttd-to-apple-devices/ and the linked petition page 15:29:36 <planetmaker> for a long time ;-) 15:30:04 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc3-pres13-2-0-cust333.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:30:08 <abez> Rubidium: yes he definitely doesn't understand the issue here, I think he's insulted, he feels his work is being attacked 15:30:09 <planetmaker> there's still no gpl sound available 15:30:29 <abez> Rubidium: so he's got a cydia version right? 15:30:32 <Rubidium> abez: well, talk to zodttd directly (in here) 15:30:45 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:46 <abez> oh did know that 15:30:56 <Rubidium> abez: I remember an ancient cydia version claiming to be a version of OpenTTD that it wasn't 15:31:07 <planetmaker> he 15:31:23 <abez> but a cydia version would AOK as far as I can tell 15:31:35 <abez> as long as the source is available upon request 15:32:57 <abez> anyways Rubidium thanks for discussing this with me 15:33:08 <abez> the forums were lagging out for me so I could only rely on google cache 15:33:14 <abez> so I couldn't really tell what was up 15:33:41 <abez> I noticed on gpl-violations.org that someone proprietarized SuperMayoMayo Chronicles :( 15:33:43 <Rubidium> the forum lagging? 15:34:02 <Rubidium> a 30 second delay before a page loads? 15:34:02 <abez> Rubidium: in chromium on my net connection I was having problems getting it load 15:34:07 <abez> yeah 15:34:14 <abez> maybe not even load 15:34:16 <Rubidium> fix your IPv6 15:34:41 <Rubidium> your browser tries to connect via IPv6 first, when that fails (after ~30 seconds) it will fall back to IPv4 15:34:48 <abez> Oh.. I'm on a VPN and the admin setup a broken IPV6 route 15:34:51 <abez> thanks 15:34:57 <Rubidium> there might be a setting to disable IPv6 in your browser 15:36:34 <abez> thanks for the random tech support ;) 15:38:27 <Rubidium> oh... they changed their rules after I gave the "okay" for the GPL complying packaging of OpenTTD 15:38:42 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:38:55 <abez> who is "they" and what rules? 15:39:02 <Rubidium> they == Apple 15:39:15 <Rubidium> rules == that GPL breaking stuff 15:39:16 <abez> yeah that's another issue with Apple, they turn on a dime sometimes 15:39:23 <abez> weird 15:39:41 <abez> did they change their rules in a positive manner? 15:39:47 <abez> have you enacted positive change? 15:40:34 <Rubidium> no, I seem to remember all this GPL vs Apple issues to pop up after a change in their license, which probably happened after I gave the okay 15:41:07 <Rubidium> or at least before it became publicly known 15:41:36 <abez> oh :( 15:42:01 <abez> well good luck dealing with it 15:42:11 <abez> thanks for discussing this, I gotta go 16:01:15 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-55-245.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has joined #openttd 16:06:12 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:08:19 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:15:59 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaafa8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:16:15 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8217d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:17:40 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8217d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:20:06 *** welshdragon [~dragon@ip05.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Quit: rdlBNC restart: IPv4 and IPv6 support updating. Your BNC will have a new IP upon reconnect, ip21.rdlbnc.com - This is an IPv4 address. We thank you for yo] 16:20:57 *** welshdragon [~dragon@ip21.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 16:22:23 *** welshdragon [~dragon@ip21.rdlbnc.com] has quit [] 16:22:57 *** welshdragon [~dragon@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 16:30:50 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:37:40 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8657.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:41:50 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:47:57 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:49:48 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.121.141] has joined #openttd 16:50:33 <BCMM> if you transfer to a station that accepts the goods you are transferring, do the goods stay there or get accepted? 16:51:17 <Rubidium> they stay 16:52:02 <BCMM> so attaching a bus station to an airport, and transferring passengers to it, would increase the number of passengers waiting at the airport? 16:52:03 *** welshdragon is now known as waelshdragon 16:53:51 <BCMM> from the wiki: "Town growth can be accelerated by loading and unloading at least one item of cargo at five stations within town influence within a two month period." - does one have to unload, or would just loading do? 16:54:28 <BCMM> would collecting people from multiple bus stops and using them to feed an airport also increase the size of the city and eventually the traffic at the airport? 16:54:47 *** waelshdragon is now known as welshdragon 16:55:55 <Alberth> yes, transfering passengers to a station will increase the number of waiting passengers, just like goods 16:56:39 <Alberth> wouldn't the wiki say differently otherwise? 16:56:56 <Alberth> (although the wiki is known to be not always correct) 16:57:11 <BCMM> i was asking about town growth due to loading and unloading goods 16:57:23 <BCMM> and whether you need to do both 16:57:43 <Alberth> the wiki says both, and most likely it does so for a reason 16:58:26 <Alberth> loading goods in a town? if it gets accepted it is gone 16:59:00 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.202] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:59:23 <Alberth> I don't know how 1 bus and 1 bus stop compare with 1 bus and several bus stops. Your chance to find out. 17:00:18 <Alberth> if the wiki is correct though, you'd have to both load and unload passengers 17:01:43 <Alberth> but euhm, is it not easier to do a few experiments in a game, doing different things in different cities, so you can compare? 17:02:02 <Alberth> or alternatively, read the source :) 17:02:10 <Terkhen> see you tomorrow 17:02:21 <Alberth> bye 17:08:56 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 17:09:34 <Pikka> D: 17:10:30 * planetmaker hugs Pikka 17:10:38 <planetmaker> boy boy. Won't be _that_ bad, will it? 17:10:46 <planetmaker> :-) 17:10:59 <Rubidium> hugging him IRL at the moment? 17:11:39 <Rubidium> don't think that'd be bad, as you'd be on vacation in Australia :) 17:12:12 <planetmaker> :-) 17:12:15 <andythenorth> ooh Pikka is here :) 17:12:28 <planetmaker> long ago I've been there... 17:13:36 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8657.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:16:21 * andythenorth should learn about rail types 17:16:38 <planetmaker> andythenorth: not much to learn there really... 17:17:14 <andythenorth> say I wanted to do an engine that is 750hp on diesel engine, and 2000hp if there is electrified third rail? 17:17:17 <planetmaker> but... will you now also start with a rail type?! 17:19:02 <andythenorth> hopefully not 17:19:34 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ad8f:61b2:4f17:fc67] has joined #openttd 17:20:03 <planetmaker> hm... I'm not sure whether it's possible to do that 17:20:59 <planetmaker> I tend to think it's not 17:21:52 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ad8f:61b2:4f17:fc67] has joined #openttd 17:21:56 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ad8f:61b2:4f17:fc67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:56 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 17:22:59 <andythenorth> no varaction 2 var for railtype? 17:23:08 <planetmaker> maybe something can be pulled by (mis-)using the powered wagon callback, but... 17:23:20 <planetmaker> oh, there is for railtypes. But you want it for trains 17:23:33 <andythenorth> yup 17:23:40 <andythenorth> I want to check railtype from train 17:23:43 <planetmaker> and trains have no knowledge about the track they're on 17:23:44 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:23:49 <andythenorth> I guess that would be an expensive var to check? 17:24:02 <planetmaker> well... quite 17:24:12 <planetmaker> though curvature etc. is just as expensive 17:24:44 <michi_cc> almost I'd say: case 0x66: return t->railtype; 17:25:27 * andythenorth checks when cb 36 runs 17:26:12 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 17:26:12 <andythenorth> hmm 17:26:19 <michi_cc> Which is of course not the current rail type, and might even miss the translation table 17:26:24 <frosch123> maybe you can cheat with articulated parts. make one part an electric engine, and the other part a diesel engine 17:26:46 <frosch123> michi_cc: i guess that is rather the type of the train, not of the track 17:26:47 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 17:27:02 <Pikka> what's this? 17:27:06 <planetmaker> michi_cc: but... how to access the current railtype? 17:27:23 <andythenorth> Pikka: I'm plotting a class 73 (which would need to check railtype somehow) 17:27:24 <michi_cc> by introducing a new variable? 17:27:34 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-55-245.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:27:46 <andythenorth> and cb36 might need to run more often than it does now (not sure how often it runs) 17:27:50 <andythenorth> for hp that is 17:27:53 <Pikka> 73's already planned for the main set, so don't plot too hard :P 17:27:59 <andythenorth> :o 17:28:03 <frosch123> likely it only runs in depot currently 17:28:06 * andythenorth ends plotting 17:28:11 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.121.141] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 17:28:11 <Pikka> but yes, it would be tricky to make the diesel engine work. 17:28:41 <andythenorth> run it with an invisible powered wagon? 17:28:47 <michi_cc> train_cmd.cpp:3316 looks like the train power is properly updated on changing railtypes 17:29:12 <Pikka> making callbacks run more often would also allow for my automatic banking idea. but otherwise, a var to read the current rail type would be nice. 17:29:21 <Pikka> otherwise, I was just going to leave the diesel engine out :P 17:29:32 <andythenorth> that would be criminal 17:29:33 <andythenorth> :P 17:30:14 <Rubidium> we can add a gazillion extra callbacks, but then OpenTTD would become turn based 17:30:36 <Pikka> indeed 17:30:42 <Pikka> also an option 17:31:00 <Pikka> would be a flag to make it so that articulated parts retained their properties... 17:31:16 <Pikka> that way the diesel engine could be put in a separate vehicle 17:31:32 <Rubidium> although... what do you mean with banking? Different graphics when in tight corners? 17:31:46 <Pikka> banking as in pushing up hills, not turning 17:32:09 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4DFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:32:09 <Pikka> it was an idea which didn't really work, anyway :) 17:32:31 <frosch123> [19:26] <frosch123> maybe you can cheat with articulated parts. make one part an electric engine, and the other part a diesel engine <- just for the record: does not work 17:33:06 <Pikka> hence "a flag to make it so that articulated parts retained their properties...", frosch123 17:33:16 <michi_cc> A "return GetReverseRailTypeTranslation(GetTileRailType(t->tile), object->grffile);" somewhere (i.e. for whichever var you want) in newgrf_engine.cpp should work 17:33:41 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4C0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:33:45 *** abez [~abez@206-248-139-25.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #openttd [] 17:33:47 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ad8f:61b2:4f17:fc67] has joined #openttd 17:33:57 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:18 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ad8f:61b2:4f17:fc67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:18 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 17:34:56 <Pikka> "BR Type JB" is the Class 73, btw andythenorth ;) 17:35:41 <andythenorth> ah ha 17:35:53 <andythenorth> win 17:37:25 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has joined #openttd 17:43:21 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20162 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3954]: integer comparison failed in case the difference was more than "MAX_UINT"/2 17:45:34 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20163 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed) 17:45:34 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:34 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: dutch - 3 changes by habell 17:45:34 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG 17:45:34 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: irish - 6 changes by tem 17:45:35 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: portuguese - 18 changes by ABCRic 17:45:35 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: russian - 73 changes by Lone_Wolf, perk11 17:45:46 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20164 /trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): -Fix [FS#3870]: inconsistencies w.r.t. to km/h vs km-ish/h as "base" unit for aircraft speeds 17:46:45 <Pikka> wow, that's been a long time coming :P 17:48:55 <Sacro> that's what she said 17:50:18 * Pikka hands Sacro a malicious object 17:50:24 * Sacro thrusts it 17:50:38 * planetmaker doesn't want to know the details :-P 17:51:53 <andythenorth> poop 17:51:58 * andythenorth can't code trains 17:52:21 <Alberth> we have plentry of train coders 17:52:45 <andythenorth> plentry indeed 17:53:17 <Pikka> what're you trying to code, andy? 17:53:23 <andythenorth> secret :P 17:53:50 <Pikka> well, if you need help, I'm only a PM away :) I've probably got something I can cut and paste for you. 17:53:51 <andythenorth> copying action 0 from a road vehicle doesn't work for a train :) 17:53:56 <Pikka> indeed not 17:53:58 * andythenorth now studiously reads documentation 17:54:10 <Pikka> is it a wagon or a loco? 17:54:14 <andythenorth> loco 17:54:23 <Pikka> ah, okay 17:54:26 <planetmaker> andythenorth: one of the nice things about NFO: inconsistent properties through all features 17:54:44 <Pikka> my loco action 0s are still a bit messy, never bothered to tidy them up like I did with my wagons. :) 18:00:17 * andythenorth is somewhat amused by trying to translate an RV action 0 to a train 18:00:25 <andythenorth> for certain values of 'somewhat' 18:00:43 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:01:33 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:02:07 <Pikka> probably better to start from scratch ;) 18:05:25 * andythenorth starts from scratch 18:08:43 <andythenorth> grr 18:08:50 <andythenorth> trains and rvs can't share action 1 sprites 18:08:52 <andythenorth> nvm 18:10:06 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:11:18 <andythenorth> hmm 18:11:24 <andythenorth> strings can't be shared either of course 18:15:50 <Pikka> strings? vehicle names? D: 18:16:18 <Pikka> interesting :P 18:16:50 <Alberth> andy codes nfo in strings :) 18:17:29 * andythenorth is coding one of these http://www.google.co.uk/images?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=unimog+rail&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=J6JATNT1F5q60gTY7Z2aDw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=7&ved=0CDwQsAQwBg 18:17:47 <andythenorth> (not a url, the thing in the pictures linked by the url) :P 18:18:06 <andythenorth> appropriately enough, the google image results include a lego version 18:18:12 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:27:24 <Pikka> hmm 18:27:33 <Pikka> and now for the .25 question 18:27:50 <Pikka> should the HST go with the DMUs or the locomotives? 18:31:23 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: .] 18:32:31 <Pikka> btw andythenorth: I'm going to do a monster box and save the polybulks for covered cargos, thanks for the suggestion. ;) 18:32:38 *** Celestar [~vici@89.204.137.0] has joined #openttd 18:38:23 <andythenorth> I won't draw the monster box then, unless it suits you that I do 18:38:37 <andythenorth> in UKRS 1 I like that the polybulk is widely refittable :) 18:39:21 <andythenorth> Pikka: also I was planning to draw these: http://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_003.php 18:39:34 <andythenorth> I'd have done it by now, but I'm too lazy to do load sprites :P 18:39:50 <Pikka> :P 18:39:56 <Pikka> cool 18:40:11 <Pikka> the more the merrier. ;) gonna do a few livery variations? :) 18:40:15 <andythenorth> yes, 18:40:21 <andythenorth> you happy to code them for me? 18:40:45 <Pikka> of course 18:40:53 <andythenorth> set design is a bit of a ying-yang 18:41:04 <andythenorth> small sets are cleaner... 18:41:04 <Pikka> I don't know if you've played with the set much yet, but most of the wagons have 3 or 4 liveries 18:41:11 <andythenorth> (not yet) 18:41:25 <andythenorth> ...but variation keeps me playing and that means a large set 18:41:37 <Pikka> when you build a train the wagons all match, as it gets older they start to get a little mixed up. :) 18:41:47 <andythenorth> shiny 18:42:05 <andythenorth> I played a UKRS 1 + addons + FIRS game recently 18:42:07 <Pikka> there's also a few variations by cargo for tanks and whatnot... 18:42:14 <andythenorth> I saw those in the sprites 18:42:34 <andythenorth> with FIRS 0.2, it's the first time I've found a real use for small locos 18:42:57 <andythenorth> the class 14 was really useful 18:43:00 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Any other whishes for vehicle vars besides current rail type? 18:43:05 <andythenorth> no 18:43:11 <michi_cc> And Pikka of course as well :) 18:43:28 <andythenorth> michi_cc: now if you could just make it possible for RVs to travel on rail also.... 18:44:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth: that's called trams ;-) 18:44:05 <Pikka> michi_cc: probably a long, long list, but luckily for you none that come to mind right now ;) 18:44:22 *** dfox [~dfox@r3ah113.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:16 <Pikka> global count of vehicle IDs would be nice. also a callback to show/hide vehicles in the buy list if you have time. :P 18:50:34 *** BCMM [~ben@78.32.73.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:56:04 *** Celestar [~vici@89.204.137.0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:14 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaafa8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:34 * andythenorth also 'invented' a shunting yard....with transfer orders. Dunno why I didn't think of it before 19:02:50 *** BCMM [~ben@78.32.73.127] has joined #openttd 19:03:12 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20165 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_engine.cpp newgrf_railtype.cpp): -Feature: [NewGRF] Information (var 4A) about the current railtype a train is on. 19:05:45 <planetmaker> \o/ 19:06:58 <michi_cc> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Vehicles#Info_about_current_rail_type_for_trains_4A_ 19:07:55 <michi_cc> andythenorth: now go to work :) 19:08:39 <andythenorth> :) 19:08:58 <andythenorth> the engine I had in mind is already planned by pikka 19:09:27 <Pikka> thanks muchly michi :D 19:09:45 <Pikka> it will also let me raise/lower pantographs for the dual power locos :) 19:13:20 <planetmaker> :-O Awesome! 19:15:07 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8217d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: bis dann] 19:18:22 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-227-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:19:29 *** Chris[A] [xaero@juggernaut.ircwire.net] has left #openttd [] 19:21:19 *** Narcissus [~alex@millsie.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:22:44 *** ctibor|spi [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 19:23:07 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@oops.i.forgot.to.set.my.hostmask.kingj.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:28 *** Hirundo_ [~Hirundo@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:24:02 *** Narcissus [~alex@millsie.net] has joined #openttd 19:24:11 *** Osai [~Osai@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 19:24:24 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ad8f:61b2:4f17:fc67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:26 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:26 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Bye - http.//dev.openttdcoop.org] 19:24:26 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@vs241204.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:26 *** Hirundo_ is now known as Hirundo 19:24:37 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@oops.i.forgot.to.set.my.hostmask.kingj.net] has joined #openttd 19:32:53 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20166 /trunk/ (readme.txt src/fileio.cpp): -Fix [FS#3949]: do not scan /data and ~/data (if they happen to be your working directory). If it's the directory where your binary is located it will still scan them. 19:33:11 *** Narcissus [~alex@millsie.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:36:17 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ad8f:61b2:4f17:fc67] has joined #openttd 19:37:09 *** Narcissus [~alex@millsie.net] has joined #openttd 19:39:51 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20167 /trunk/src/table/newgrf_debug_data.h: -Add: Vehicle var 4A to the NewGRF debug window. 19:41:59 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has quit [] 19:42:28 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has joined #openttd 20:01:41 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Quit: Sacro] 20:05:57 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ad8f:61b2:4f17:fc67] has joined #openttd 20:05:57 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ad8f:61b2:4f17:fc67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:58 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 20:09:06 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ed20:9c46:c9d6:3f0f] has joined #openttd 20:09:38 *** Zahl__ [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:7914:4279:2394:7b91] has joined #openttd 20:16:14 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ad8f:61b2:4f17:fc67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:15 *** Zahl__ is now known as Zahl 20:17:19 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:ed20:9c46:c9d6:3f0f] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... aim for space race or cultural victory? 20:25:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.220.142] has joined #openttd 20:27:14 *** tdev [~udev@p508EA320.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:28:02 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has quit [Quit: PACKET_CLIENT_QUIT] 20:29:50 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has joined #openttd 20:30:29 <frosch123> doesn't cultural victory take ages? 20:31:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.173.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:31:24 <Pikka> andythenorth: how goeth? 20:32:02 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe34dc00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20:34:12 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe34dc00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:40:45 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:07:46 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff0da.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:45 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-20-80.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:17:36 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 21:17:49 <Wolf01> [21:00:40] * andythenorth also 'invented' a shunting yard <- screens? 21:18:00 <andythenorth> it was pretty simple 21:18:45 <andythenorth> just small shunters dropping goods off where a larger train was waiting 21:19:29 <andythenorth> hmm 21:19:37 <Wolf01> ah, like the "cheat" to raise a station rating with vehicles 21:19:40 <andythenorth> my road-railer is doing 1752mph 21:19:47 <Wolf01> oh, nice 21:19:57 * andythenorth swaps a byte for a word 21:22:16 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:24:33 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 21:27:29 <andythenorth> newgrf trains don't seem to set a default value for TE 21:29:22 <Pikka> TE for trains has been an established newgrf feature for many years.. since almost the beginning of newgrf sets for ttdpatch 21:29:31 <Pikka> it's not an optional extra like it is for RVs :P 21:29:42 <andythenorth> ttdp newgrf wiki implies that if not set, 4C will be used 21:29:54 * andythenorth ponders an edit 21:30:04 <Pikka> hm 21:31:09 <andythenorth> fixed 21:31:34 * andythenorth watches a tractor running on rails 21:33:29 * Pikka watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS63s97xJBk 21:34:33 <andythenorth> "austerity measures" 21:37:24 <andythenorth> who needs trains at all? 21:37:25 <andythenorth> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2340/1685612938_c3cd92866f.jpg 21:38:17 <Wolf01> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unhXEQQk8G8 we need this one... hand-catenary powered narrow gauge trains 21:38:54 <andythenorth> http://www.dymaxrail.com/t-railer/65K/details/t-railer_10.htm 21:43:31 <oniik> lol i love how they manually hold the connection on the el. wire 21:44:34 <oniik> i think it is indicative that their in their name is the word "uhel" wich means accident in norwegian 21:46:54 <andythenorth> everyone knows what a Hi-Rail is, yes/no? 21:47:06 <andythenorth> as road-railer would be misleading and cause bug reports :P 21:48:17 <ccfreak2k> andythenorth, the opposite of a...lo-rail? 21:48:24 <Wolf01> lol? 21:49:08 <andythenorth> rofl 21:49:11 <Wolf01> I can tell you for sure that "everyone" doesn't know it, but somebody may know it 21:49:11 <andythenorth> :P 21:51:02 <oniik> how can a youtube video have 301 views, but 751 likes and 50 dislikes? 21:52:53 <Wolf01> maybe a view is counted if you see the full video 21:53:30 <oniik> possibly. or the lines are crossed and things a cached 21:55:24 <Rubidium> people who can't help themselves but clicking hundreds of times on a button 21:55:30 <Rubidium> or... it's just random data 22:03:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.165.168] has joined #openttd 22:03:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.220.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> like "meet women from your region"? :p 22:08:01 <andythenorth> bed time 22:08:11 <andythenorth> good night 22:17:08 <Pikka> goodnight wallyweb 22:22:01 *** Jhs [~Jhs4@188.113.85.20] has joined #openttd 22:24:20 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:32:01 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 22:33:18 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:35:22 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe34dc00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:37:15 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4C0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 22:45:32 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 22:45:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.165.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:57 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:53:28 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [] 22:56:40 <peter1138> hurr 22:56:52 <peter1138> i have 2 threads 22:56:57 <peter1138> one holds a mutex 22:57:10 <__ln__> congratulations 22:57:15 <peter1138> the other trylocks periodically to see if it can get it 22:57:58 <peter1138> but it seems to get it before the other thread has actually unlocked it :s 22:58:32 <Rubidium> ouch 22:58:32 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-227-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the joy of threading :p 23:01:58 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:29 <peter1138> ah ha! 23:05:40 <peter1138> of course, now that i bring the subject up, i realise why 23:05:42 <peter1138> and yes. user error. 23:05:59 <peter1138> initializing a data structure... that happens to contain the mutex 23:06:01 <peter1138> *sigh* 23:06:03 <peter1138> *idiot* 23:06:06 <peter1138> *etc8 23:11:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:11:18 <tdev> hi peter1138 :D 23:11:33 <tdev> and congrats for zero'ing the mutex ;) 23:11:53 <tdev> some time ago i had the same stupid stuff going on with std::string ... :\ 23:14:49 <peter1138> stupid thing is it mostly worked even though it was zeroed... just the trylock got it a smidge early 23:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> hm.... maybe i should get some u-boats for my shiny new nuclear missiles 23:16:34 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 23:16:41 <peter1138> tdev, real coders use char * ;) 23:16:48 <peter1138> (admittedly, i am just using C here) 23:17:04 <tdev> peter1138: yes, thats what i try to do 23:17:40 <tdev> memsetting non-PDO types always ensures fun finding the bug :D 23:17:47 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:46 <peter1138> non-POD :D 23:18:58 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has joined #openttd 23:19:24 <tdev> damn typo ;) 23:19:50 <tdev> you know that our MP server crashes from time to time? :) 23:20:01 <tdev> so i wrote a huge gdb wrapper script around it :D 23:20:09 <Rubidium> why are "IT professionals" such bad bug reporters? 23:20:19 <tdev> http://redmine.rigsofrods.org/projects/rorserver/repository/entry/trunk/contrib/rorserver-initscript.in#L68 23:20:58 <peter1138> heh 23:21:02 <tdev> Rubidium: they are too lazy? 23:23:32 <Rubidium> http://bugs.openttd.org/3956 ... what to do with 23:26:44 *** tdev [~udev@p508EA320.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com] 23:30:58 <glx> Rubidium: and why to they use silly archive format ;) 23:31:10 <Rubidium> russian archive? 23:31:46 <glx> rar is not the best format 23:32:06 <Rubidium> neither is jpg 23:32:24 <Wolf01> Rubidium, IT professionals don't use the software as a common user does, so they don't know how to report bugs, but they try to find the cause of the bug instead 23:32:42 <Rubidium> Wolf01: this one definitely doesn't 23:33:02 <Rubidium> and I wonder how he's using OpenTTD that he manages what he is managing 23:34:17 <glx> hehe he doesn't even use the ingame screenshot 23:34:17 <planetmaker> bug or feature: when the OSK window is active (but not directly its edit box), all global hotkeys are active and one cannot type normally the string 23:35:28 <Wolf01> feature, indeed 23:35:54 <Rubidium> planetmaker: huh? You mean when the white "I have focus" line isn't flashing? 23:35:55 <planetmaker> really? why not then when I have the normal sign editing window open? 23:36:23 <planetmaker> Rubidium: open the OSK. Klick on any of the buttons in it. And try to continue writing the text by keyboard 23:36:26 <planetmaker> that will fail 23:37:13 <Wolf01> maybe because the sign tool's textbox doesn't lose the focus 23:37:22 <planetmaker> that's not it 23:37:40 <planetmaker> it lost focus 23:37:46 <Rubidium> dunnoat least it's consistent over versions of OpenTTD 23:38:37 <Rubidium> though clicking outside of the input box kinda means you don't want focus there anymore 23:38:38 <planetmaker> well. I can continue to type, if I only open the osk 23:39:08 <planetmaker> but as soon as I click a letter in there, I can't write using keyboard anymore 23:39:14 <planetmaker> doesn't seem logical 23:39:19 <Rubidium> until you click on the input box again 23:39:24 <planetmaker> yes. exactly 23:39:40 <peter1138> but "IT Professional" means "Knows how to paste a picture into MS Word then email it" 23:39:52 <planetmaker> but why would I want the keys to have their global hotkey meaning, if I write a text? 23:40:20 <planetmaker> I'd understand it, if the osk window had no focus 23:40:25 <planetmaker> but it has 23:40:35 <Rubidium> because you *removed* focus from input box 23:40:56 <glx> the focus is now on the button 23:41:30 <Ammler> StationGUI does apply and compile successful in r20080, but conflicts in r20146, but there is no change since r20071 in the conflicting file (rail_gui.cpp:1512: error: conflicting return type specified for 'virtual void BuildRailStationWindow::OnRightClick(Point, int)') 23:41:45 <peter1138> i agree with planetmaker for the OSK 23:42:15 <Rubidium> oh, there planetmaker... someone that's willing to fix your issue :) 23:42:34 <peter1138> i willing for planetmaker to supply a fix :D 23:42:36 <glx> Ammler: void vs bool maybe ? 23:43:04 * glx didn't check the code 23:43:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B639.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 23:44:46 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 23:45:04 <Rubidium> too bad OpenTTD uses GPL... now we can't limit OpenTTD usage for people that have an IQ of more than say 100 23:45:43 <Ammler> hmm, the conflict is caused by windows_gui.h:660: error: overriding 'virtual bool Window::OnRightClick(Point, int)' (next line) then 23:46:10 *** BCMM [~ben@78.32.73.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:47:37 <glx> Ammler: just check r20145 23:47:44 <glx> @commit 20145 23:47:47 <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by rubidium :: r20145 /trunk/src (4 files) (2010-07-14 17:36:27 UTC) 23:47:48 <DorpsGek> glx: -Codechange: keep original RMB->tooltip behaviour when hovering is disabled and there is no handled right click event for the widget, i.e. if a widget would handle the right click you won't see the tooltip anymore by right clicking; by enabling hovering you would get access to that tooltip again. 23:48:45 <glx> it's better to know what happened to trunk before trying to update a patch :) 23:50:22 <glx> especially commits that may have interaction with the patch, even if it applies cleanly 23:51:25 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:52:52 <Rubidium> glx: no! That takes time... just update, compile and ignore warnings/errors. That's the way to create and maintain quality improvements to OpenTTD 23:53:30 *** Guest3140 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:55:25 <Ammler> Rubidium: time isn't the only issue 23:55:53 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8657.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]