Log for #openttd on 29th July 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:18  <raisin> etc
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00:27:07  <nicfer> is someone working/thinking on multiple climates maps?
00:27:27  <nicfer> or did that project went abandon?
00:27:51  <SmatZ> I think it was abandoned with MiniIN
00:27:52  <SmatZ> or so
00:35:14  <nicfer> I don't remember it even on the 'miniin'
00:39:34  <Rubidium> nah... nothing is abandoned with MiniIN. MiniIN was abandoned because all stuff it depended on was basically abandoned; no new/updated/fixed patches.
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00:48:07  <glx> Rubidium: and because we were forced to be the 2 only "maintainers" each time a big change happened in trunk ;)
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01:10:01  <Eddi|zuHause> <German>Nach dem zufall erzeugtes Diagramm mit weniger uninhabitable Gel&#228;nde.</German> <-- ok, which idiot did shove that through an online translator?
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01:17:36  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: what does that mean?
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01:18:25  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: aside from total garbage, it originally meant "create a random map with fewer uninhabitable terrain"
01:18:36  <SmatZ> by chance made diagram with less uninhabitable land?
01:18:54  <SmatZ> :)
01:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause> changed it to "<German>Zufallskarte mit weniger unbewohnbarem Gel&#228;nde.</German>" now...
01:21:11  <SmatZ> sounds better
01:21:31  <SmatZ> "random map with less uninhabitable land", if I undrstand correctly
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04:21:07  <nicfer> about the 'all climates world' feature, I feel it's not that good
04:23:33  <nicfer> it should be useful for defining zones where certain industries can grow and others not, like desert or snow
04:24:14  <nicfer> but that could be 'emulated' with GRFs, not?
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07:51:23  <Wolf01> hellooooo!
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08:27:13  <Terkhen> good morning
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09:03:10  * peter1138 ponders the feasability of a VGA -> SCART connection
09:03:47  <TomyLobo> probably needs complicated circuitry
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09:05:17  <__ln__> not necessarily, but i doubt if it's worth the trouble
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09:05:49  <__ln__> besides SCART is a french invention
09:06:34  <peter1138> should be fine with the correct timings
09:06:52  <peter1138> SCART is just RGB + sync after all
09:07:10  <TomyLobo> are you sure?
09:07:11  <peter1138> hmm
09:07:12  <peter1138> yes
09:07:16  <TomyLobo> i thought it was composite
09:07:42  <peter1138> it can carry composite as well
09:07:48  <__ln__> and s-video
09:07:52  <peter1138> there are a lot of pins on a SCART socket...
09:07:59  <TomyLobo> ah
09:08:00  <__ln__> and audio
09:08:16  <peter1138> originally it was audio, composite and RGB
09:09:27  <TomyLobo> the USA doesn't use SCART? i wonder what they use instead
09:09:32  <peter1138> the RGB output on a BBC was suitable, although needed to be pulled down from TTL
09:09:35  <peter1138> the USA suck though
09:09:37  <peter1138> +s
09:09:51  <peter1138> that's why they think component is great
09:09:57  <peter1138> becuase they never had RGB SCART
09:10:06  <peter1138> it's all moot with hdmi though
09:10:25  <TomyLobo> ah that's why that sells so well over there
09:11:00  <peter1138> well component can do progressive which rgb scart doesn't
09:11:47  * peter1138 , alas, only has a widescreen "SD" telly
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09:20:56  <Moses> hey
09:25:25  <Alberth> good morning
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10:34:05  <Moses> is there a way to decrease loan to 50k?
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10:38:01  <__ln__>
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10:43:13  <Alberth> Moses: in the difficulty setting you can set the loan, not sure about the range though
10:44:58  <Moses> yeah i know but it doesnt go lower than 200k Euro
10:46:19  <keikoz> maybee try changing it directly in the openttd.cfg ?
10:48:52  <Yexo> that won't work
10:49:17  <keikoz> yep, I just tried, it doesn't
10:49:23  <Yexo> settings are validated and clamped to valid values when read from openttd.cfg, and the minimum value is 100kpounds = 200k euro
10:49:38  <Moses> no way to change that?
10:49:39  <Yexo> there is no way to change that except by modifying the source code
10:49:45  <Moses> ah k.
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10:53:28  <keikoz> changing that would be enough ? : {7, 3, 3, 100000, 4, 1, 3, 2, 0, 2, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2}, ///< hard
10:54:10  <keikoz> (settings.cpp)
10:55:13  <Rubidium> probably not
10:56:20  <Yexo> no, you need to change this line from table/settings.h:
10:56:20  <Yexo> SDT_CONDVAR(GameSettings, difficulty.max_loan,                 SLE_UINT32, 97, SL_MAX_VERSION, 0,NS|CR,300000,100000,500000,50000,STR_NULL,                               DifficultyChange),
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10:56:41  <Yexo> those values are in pounds, so if you want to have 50k euro you need to change the 100000 to 25000
10:57:43  <Eddi|zuHause> which is silly, because you can only lend in steps of 10k pounds, or 20k euro. so either 20000 or 30000...
10:58:23  <Eddi|zuHause> and you probably also need to adjust the initial loan on game start
11:01:59  <keikoz> ok
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11:26:13  <Moses> how to add a goal on a dedi. server?
11:26:19  <Moses> is there a faq/tut?
11:26:47  <Eddi|zuHause> no.
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11:27:39  <Alberth> Moses: hack the source
11:27:46  <Yexo> Moses: you'll have to patch the server (and possible the clients), there might be some patch in the development forum, if not you'll have to code one yourself
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12:37:39  <Moses> if i send a command to my dedicatet server via rcon he ignores spacebar...
12:37:49  <Moses> what can i do?
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12:38:59  <glx> rcon pass "command args"
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12:40:44  <Moses> args? xD
12:41:18  <Moses> ahhh well " " " xD
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12:51:51  <Belugas> hello
12:51:56  <Alberth1> hello Belugas
12:52:55  <Belugas> hello Uncle Alberth
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13:09:30  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20238 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_basestation.hpp: -Doc: [NoAI] clarify the documentation for AIBaseStation::GetLocation
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13:40:54  <KOPOBA> BEN
13:40:57  <KOPOBA> im hear =)
13:41:04  <KOPOBA> what you want to say?
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13:53:27  <Belugas> i doubt BEN can answer, since i do not see any BEN in the current list of users ;)
13:54:45  <KOPOBA> ok =)
13:54:57  <KOPOBA> i fine him on another channel =)
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13:55:10  <__ln__> you're a cop?
13:55:21  <KOPOBA> why?
13:55:28  <__ln__> because you are going to fine him
13:55:34  <KOPOBA> *fined
13:56:14  <KOPOBA> *find
14:08:47  <Belugas> __ln__, no, he's a hear, can't you read?
14:08:48  <Belugas> hehehehe
14:09:39  <__ln__> that's right
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14:17:56  <Moses> can i stop building new industry in a scenario?
14:18:19  <Moses> from time to time there come new industrys, i dont want that.
14:19:02  <Alberth1> old industries die every now and then, don't you want replacements?
14:20:04  <Moses> no i dont want replacements
14:21:33  <Yexo> the only way to do that is by writing a newgrf that stops new industries from being build during the game
14:22:42  <Moses> k thx
14:22:51  <Yexo> do you already use an industry newgrf?
14:22:55  <Moses> no
14:23:05  <Moses> dont use any newgrf till now
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14:49:49  <undef> hi guys
14:50:13  <Alberth1> hi
14:52:06  <undef> is there a way to set a "end year" or how iam able to build old vehicles in the future? (for example the "SH 8P" locomotive in the year 2050)?
14:53:04  <Terkhen> use the "Vehicles never expire" advanced option
14:53:07  <Yexo> you can set "vehicles never expire" to on
14:53:14  <undef> ah
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14:54:14  <undef> but this doesnt work for vehicles who are already expired?
14:54:26  <Yexo> type "resetengines' in the console
14:54:30  <Yexo> after enabling the setting
14:55:39  <undef> wow
14:55:40  <undef> cool
14:55:41  <undef> thank you!
15:09:25  <Eddi|zuHause> (or click "apply" in the newgrf settings, that runs "resetengines" as well)
15:10:39  <Eddi|zuHause> and why would you need an SH 8P in 2050?
15:10:47  <Eddi|zuHause> there are way better engines than that...
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15:14:30  <Belugas> because it's unrealistic :)
15:15:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: i mean, questions like that often indicate "hasn't found the button to switch rail types yet"
15:15:53  <Belugas> ho...
15:15:54  <Belugas> right
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15:18:06  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: obviously for the museum lines with tourists!
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15:18:44  <Alberth1> as long as they don't know you can simply buy them from a manufacturer :)
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15:28:52  <Rubidium> but you're not buying them form the manufacturer; they are delivered way too fast for that
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15:30:30  <Alberth1> he keeps enough stock for quick delivery
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15:55:43  <Moses> join CÂŽs Hard Game and be suprised how hard this game can be!
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16:11:48  <undef> Eddi|zuHause, das war nur ein beispiel :D
16:13:54  <andythenorth> we just DOSed our own box :P
16:13:59  <andythenorth> blearghh
16:14:03  <andythenorth> back to work
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16:30:09  <peter1138> hurr, well, all my dl*() code works :D
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16:40:35  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- that entire concept sounds kinda wrong...
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16:42:39  <Daw> Hi, I have one question.. is there any way how can I disable "Cargo distribution" addon in OpenTTD? (I'm using chill's patchpack v8 precompiled)
16:43:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Daw: set the routing algorithm (symmetric/asymmetric/manual) to "manual"
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16:44:33  <Daw> you mean in Link graph settings?:) There I have 5 settings with this options
16:45:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, set all of them to manual
16:48:20  <Daw> Ok.. question #2: Must I have new station due to it ?:D
16:49:10  <Daw> My plane is still waiting for some passangers although there i have around 800 pass...
16:49:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it'll sort itself out eventually, i presume
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16:50:14  <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't immediately drop everything, but new cargo won't get a destination
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16:50:43  <Daw> Damn.. thats logical :) Ok I'll test it :) Thanks a lot!! :)
16:53:49  <keikoz> take care about symetric/asymmetric -> manual, if its done while playing, it can lead to weird results
16:54:35  <keikoz> I did it once in an also great network once, and I had to clean all links in order to convert them to manual :x
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16:56:12  <Daw> So is it better to do it in new map without station? Damn.. thats hurt .. -_-
16:56:19  <ntx> is there anyway to center the minimap on your current location?
16:56:23  <Daw> stations*
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16:57:14  <keikoz> I don't know if it is "normal" behaviour or a bug, but while a link is started as symetric/asymetric, seems it stays like this until the link is cleaned
16:57:51  <Eddi|zuHause> keikoz, Daw: if it really works like rthat, you should report that as bug to the cargodist thread
16:58:07  <keikoz> Eddi|zuHause : that's exactly what I was thinking about :)
16:58:19  <keikoz> will do it when i've some time
16:59:10  <Daw> I read a lot of pages but nowhere wasn't how can I turn off this thing :D
16:59:44  <Alberth1> ntx: the map button in the minimap
17:01:08  <Daw> I think that everybody is happy with that just I have problem because its harder to orientation
17:02:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Daw: i think passengers without destination are extremely boring
17:02:11  <Alberth1> not many users explore more than one setting
17:03:20  <keikoz> well I will do that report
17:06:39  <Daw> You are right but I'm playing ttd just occasionally so it's sufficient for me
17:06:44  <Daw> thanks keikoz :)
17:09:53  <keikoz> Done.
17:12:25  <Daw> Hmm You were right, I destroyed station, wait until the name dissapear than build exactly the same station and now there is only "cargo via ANY station" and nothing else
17:13:06  <Daw> so now i'm gonna to do it with every stations.. aaghrr... =)
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17:14:16  <keikoz> Eddi|zuHause : I agree
17:14:34  <keikoz> I couldn't play anymore without destinations, that make the game an entire different challenge
17:14:49  <keikoz> more interesting to organize
17:15:48  <keikoz> necessity to consider the different implications of a big network dispatching, hubbing and so on
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17:18:40  <Daw> I'm happy that I know how use PSB signals so i'm on lower level than you :D
17:19:00  <Daw> pbs*
17:19:02  <Daw> -_-
17:21:03  <Daw> I'm using chills pack just thanks to copy and paste function
17:21:32  <Daw> this is the most important thing for me now =)
17:23:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i never had a use for that feature
17:24:33  <Daw> I'm using it mainly for this layout:
17:27:20  <Hirundo> You're better off using either 2 or 4 tracks, IMO
17:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i mostly use 2-tracks, only rarely i need 3
17:27:57  <Eddi|zuHause> mostly you go directly to 2, to separate slow from fast trains
17:28:02  <Eddi|zuHause> *to 4
17:28:34  <Hirundo> Unless your train speeds vary greatly but the amount of traffic is low, 3 tracks isn't really worth the hassle
17:31:56  <Daw> I was expecting it that this is not good solution and I agree..I use it on not so "busy" network.. In other case i'm using this type but with 4 rails (2 one-way and 2 both-ways)
17:32:59  <keikoz> I tried this layout, it didnt worked
17:33:08  <keikoz> I couldn't manage to correctly set the pathfinder
17:34:25  <Daw> I had to adjust pf.yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty and now it seems that its fine for me
17:36:12  <Daw> Keikoz.. i can just stop every plane, train and so on to destroy "links" between stations? Do I not have to destroy any stations?
17:37:19  <keikoz> no, just stop them (I sent them in the depots), and watch at the linkgraph; when the corresponding links are deleted (it can take a while) you can restart them
17:37:25  <Daw> omg my english is so horrible :D sorry for that :(
17:37:40  <Daw> thanks a lot :)
17:37:44  <keikoz> oh, me too
17:38:06  <keikoz> english is dominating the world, they can *also* exspect everybody to speak it correctly :)
17:38:14  <keikoz> s/can/can't/
17:38:49  <__ln__> *expect
17:38:55  <keikoz> :/
17:40:06  <Alberth1> We don't expect that, just try to do the best you can. You'll get better with more practice :)
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17:41:02  <Daw> The main thing is that we understand each other :)
17:41:23  <keikoz> That's what I do, I'm even happy when people correct me (I consider that as a advantage).
17:43:36  <Daw> Oh noo..everybody'll be busy with my sentences :D
17:44:01  <Daw> But yea... you're right :)
17:45:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20240 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
17:45:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 3 changes by Wowanxm
17:45:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: chuvash - 50 changes by mefisteron
17:45:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: irish - 9 changes by tem
17:45:36  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 17 changes by myquartz
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18:04:24  <Daw> Thanks for help and good bye:)
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18:08:54  <roboboy> can I get a commented copy of the openttdw.grf nfo?
18:10:04  <Rubidium> yes and no
18:11:09  <Rubidium> the sources for generating that nfo (with comments) can be found on svn /extra/something
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18:14:09  <orospakr> Rubidium, hey, I have a bit of a question for you.  I'm trying to find out more about ZodTTD, as he appears to be violating the GPL license of a few projects.  As I understand it, he did an iPhone port of OpenTTD some months back, and there was some disagreement with OpenTTD upstream.  What happened there, exactly?
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18:15:24  <Rubidium> he failed to supply the full source (some files were missing) and he failed to attach the required license files
18:16:41  <orospakr> heh. sounds about right.
18:16:45  <Rubidium> as there wasn't much reply coming from zodttd I sent an email to Apple which (almost) immediately removed it and then he woke up and started a whole compaign that we were stupid and such
18:16:56  <Rubidium> <- that one
18:17:10  <orospakr> yeah, I read his blog post.  I smelled bullshit on account of the other license violations on his part that I'm looking into.
18:17:54  <orospakr> He's partnered up with another guy ("YongZH", iirc) who's been putting similar tricks with Android ports of various free software emulators.
18:19:14  <Rubidium> I'm still waiting on ZodTTD for his opinion on Apple itself violating GPL by their Terms of Service; I've tried to contact him several times here
18:19:32  <Rubidium> but never got a reply and I'm still not sure what to do
18:20:01  <Rubidium> orospakr: basically
18:20:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i should have known better than to buy a "microsoft" mouse...
18:20:29  <Eddi|zuHause> it's so badly manufactured...
18:20:31  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you started reading the RSI disclaimer?
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18:20:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, it broke after half a year, and then i replaced it, and the next one is also on the brink of collapsing...
18:21:25  * orospakr is very sad about how much iphone and android user communities don't understand free software, or even just copyright and licensing, for that matter.  Precisely nobody has called him on this, except for you guys.
18:21:36  <orospakr> but I'm going offtopic there ;)
18:21:50  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: Logitech mouses start misbehaving after 5 years as well... apparantly their cables can't handle the amount of mousing I occasionally do
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18:22:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: 5 years != 6 months...
18:22:23  <Rubidium> still... it broke!
18:22:43  <Eddi|zuHause> the store will totally look at me weirdly if i return it 4 times during the warranty period...
18:22:47  <andythenorth> evening
18:22:49  <Rubidium> although my old laptop is starting to "break" as well; some pixels are always on
18:22:58  * andythenorth broke his trackpad somehow
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18:23:14  <andythenorth> of course, the button can't be broken as it doesn't have one :P
18:23:22  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no... I've got some "badroom fan" and that gets returned every few months because it shorted once again
18:23:22  <andythenorth> probably clicking all those fricking pixels into place :P
18:23:38  <Rubidium> they don't even bother looking how often it got returned
18:24:04  <Eddi|zuHause> there's some kind of leather-like-covering on the mouse wheel, and it completely falls apart...
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18:24:13  <Rubidium> orospakr: free software "legal" debates are generally not that off-topic in here
18:24:23  <orospakr> heh, cool.
18:24:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: not as off-topic than most other topics here :p
18:25:05  <Eddi|zuHause> like... that colonization is a cute game, but it very quickly gets boring...
18:28:00  <orospakr> ZodTTD and YongZH *have* posted source for some of their emulator ports, but it's often old/incomplete (I haven't tested them all, to be fair).  However, some are just missing entirely, like the new "psx4droid" PSX emulator for Android (it's actually a port of PCSX, but he doesn't mention this at all).  I ran strings(1) on his binaries in order to confirm my suspicions.
18:28:25  <orospakr> And the PCSX upstream is kind of dead these days (it dates from the early 2000s), so the trail there is cold.  How convenient for him.
18:28:35  * orospakr is going to try to track down some of the folks he's ripping off.
18:28:54  <Belugas> resistance is futile, we will assimilate you
18:29:07  <Belugas> ho.... too many lines added since then....
18:29:17  <Rubidium> Belugas: talking of that... how was your bible study?
18:29:34  <Belugas> 2 only mentionned my dear :)
18:29:40  <Belugas> 2 of each that is...
18:29:42  <Belugas> noble or not
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18:30:17  <Belugas> so i have no idea where your 7 comes from
18:30:24  <Rubidium> Belugas:
18:30:31  <Belugas> note taht at one point in time, quantity was not even mentionned...
18:30:35  <NoBrainHere> Hi. Is there a difference between original_dos and original_windows graphics?
18:30:36  * Belugas chakes
18:30:38  <Belugas> checks
18:31:01  <Belugas> Palette used, NoBrainHere.  or so i think
18:31:40  <Rubidium> orospakr: do you know what license PCSX has?
18:31:45  <orospakr> Rubidium, GPLv2.
18:32:02  <Eddi|zuHause> orospakr: the problem is, legally, you can't just follow up on other people's license breaking. you need to have the rights to the original program in the first place.
18:32:20  <NoBrainHere> I got a copy of TTD4win from rapidshare, and it didn't work. When I specified it as a "ttd folder" in ottd setup, I got original_windows graphics/sounds/music
18:32:38  <orospakr> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, well aware.
18:33:42  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i thought we wanted to ban this guy?
18:34:10  <Rubidium> I would've expected the +q to do its trick
18:34:23  <Belugas> mmmh... interesting, Rubidium. quite
18:34:44  <NoBrainHere> Just ban the entire SouthTeleCom DSL pool.
18:35:36  <roboboy> which file from would contain the two extra bridges assuming they are implemented via GRF?
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18:36:01  <Rubidium> roboboy: neither; they're just the same bridge with recolouring
18:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: i presume it's just recolouring
18:36:29  <roboboy> so no nfo to do the recolouring?
18:37:18  <Rubidium> Belugas: the French bible seems to suggest the "sept" number as well, though my French isn't as good as my English :)
18:37:24  <Rubidium> Belugas:
18:37:27  <Eddi|zuHause> recolouring is usually done with the company colour sprites
18:38:46  <Rubidium> orospakr: you are aware of the "forks" of PCSX?
18:38:54  <Belugas> yeah..there seems to be different versions, Rubidium
18:38:55  <Belugas>
18:38:58  <Belugas> here, it's 2
18:39:28  <Rubidium> Belugas: but that isn't Genesis 7, that's Genesis 6. I would assume that 7 overrides 6 :)
18:39:45  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should all read
18:39:46  <Belugas> hehehe... i would not say that ;)
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18:40:32  <Rubidium> orospakr: e.g PCSX-reloaded is still active (which is a fork of PCSX-df which is a fork of PCSX)
18:40:42  <orospakr> Rubidium, aha!
18:41:01  <orospakr> good to know.
18:41:04  <Belugas> thanks Eddi|zuHause :)
18:41:14  <Belugas> and.. no numbers!
18:41:20  <Belugas> just... get me some beasts!
18:41:41  <Belugas> Rubidium, i'm not sure what those versions stand for, to be honest
18:42:18  <orospakr> Rubidium, I'll have to sleuth some more and see if ZodTTD used the original PCSX code, or stuff from -df or -reloaded.
18:42:51  <Rubidium> if it's the latter, then they'll fairly certainly be still active (given the commits that were made today)
18:42:53  <Belugas> hoo.. these are different books!
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18:43:04  <orospakr> Rubidium, that's what I'm hoping for. ;)
18:46:00  <Belugas> so this it why i could not find that book, i stopped at the 6th and scratched my head
18:46:08  <Belugas> so.. more readings tonight :D
18:46:33  <NoBrainHere> ok, here's a hint on how to block those like me. Use a mod of qwebirc as chat gateway. Make the chat a forum "service page". Make the QWEBIRC mod use "realname" for a permit code. Make a bot that only allows those with a valid permit code. Ban my entire pool and all Russian email providers from registering on your forum.
18:48:25  <NoBrainHere> |:)|
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18:49:09  <Nemic> hi
18:49:43  <NoBrainHere> Hi, Nemic. What's your (O)TT(D) problem?
18:50:15  <Nemic> is anyone in here who could help me with setting up 3ds max
18:50:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: the epic of gilgamesh is one of the oldest existing written story on earth. way older than the bible
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18:50:50  <__ln__> i thought 3ds max is some kind of a 3d modelling application.
18:50:55  <NoBrainHere> wrong channel, Nemic. This is about
18:51:06  <Rubidium> Nemic: I haven't seen people discussing 3ds max here
18:51:43  <Nemic> yes i asking because i want to start modeling a 32bit vehicle for the new graphics
18:51:46  <NoBrainHere> Rubidium, how were the isometric models for OTTD made?
18:52:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Nemic: maybe you should try the 32bpp forum?
18:52:35  <Nemic> and I'm not sure if I should do the modeling with the lightscene or if I could import the model into this given scene just du render it
18:52:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Nemic:
18:52:49  <__ln__> Nemic: Let me guess you downloaded it and now you need to set up a crack in order to run it?
18:53:22  <Belugas> indeed Eddi|zuHause.  And even earlier, you have Enuma Elish, which is the oldest (to date) text of the genesis of the world
18:54:42  <Belugas> which influenced the "holy" writings of a few religions, past and present
18:54:48  <NoBrainHere> I don't bother with 3dmax and other metacreeps
18:55:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: hm... i believe 2500BC is way earlier than 800BC ;)
18:55:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so you might have your order mixed up ;)
18:55:29  <Belugas> ?
18:55:34  <Nemic> thanks for the link, I thought that a modeler is in here who could answer my question
18:55:39  <Nemic> I'll try it there
18:56:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: wikipedia Gilgamesh Epic was written down around 2500BC, and Enuma Elish was written down around 800BC
18:56:44  <Belugas> mmh
18:56:44  <Eddi|zuHause> *according to
18:56:45  <Belugas> right
18:56:49  <Belugas> sorry
18:56:52  <NoBrainHere> why bother with 32bit gfx? to attract so-called "modern gamers" that think "1995? STFU!"...
18:57:00  <Belugas> i was wrong
18:57:23  <Belugas> wow...  my beliefs are all upside down now
18:57:36  <Nemic> I found what I was lokking for, bye
18:57:50  <NoBrainHere> =.=
18:57:54  <fjb> Just stop believing.
18:58:01  *** Nemic [] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - ~]
18:58:45  <Eddi|zuHause> there's nothing against believing... people without beliefs are dead...
18:58:47  <andythenorth> don't stop...believing
18:59:01  <Eddi|zuHause> problem starts when people get fanatic about their beliefs
18:59:08  <fjb> But religions are a bad invention.
18:59:15  <andythenorth> uh oh
18:59:24  * andythenorth senses the religious equivalent of godwin
18:59:31  <Eddi|zuHause> no, they are not. they're just not as optimal as they could be...
18:59:48  <andythenorth> writing code for a game about trains anyone?
18:59:53  <andythenorth> or even for OTTD?
19:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: if there were no religions, people would find other reasons to bang their heads... that's not the proof that religions are bad...
19:00:38  <andythenorth> how about some ponies :P
19:00:39  <andythenorth>
19:00:48  <Belugas> i agree with Eddi|zuHause
19:00:57  <Belugas> he knows more than me, so it must be true
19:01:01  <Belugas> buwahahha
19:01:10  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: They would have some reasons less to do so. That would be an improvement.
19:01:13  <NoBrainHere> "OMG DAT GRL WEARIN' BIKINI! BURN HER!" Eddi|zuHause, this?
19:02:05  <Alberth1> andythenorth: I was playing an openttd game
19:02:15  <andythenorth> was it good?
19:02:26  <andythenorth> Alberth1: have those pesky developers finished it yet?
19:02:36  <andythenorth> WHEN WILL IT BE DONE!!!???!!
19:02:59  <Alberth1> nah, it is just some intermediate version
19:03:05  <lennard> where are the big changelog links?
19:03:13  <Alberth1> I think they will never finish it
19:03:14  <NoBrainHere> it was 70% when it got named 1.0 just out-of-nothing (by getting a full replacement set).
19:03:27  <lennard> drats, hidden at download after all
19:03:30  <andythenorth> Alberth1: have they replaced the crappy graphics yet?
19:03:50  <NoBrainHere> all except window patterns
19:03:50  <Alberth1> partly, the opengfx are better
19:04:18  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
19:04:24  <NoBrainHere> window paterns are still dmn old cr4p, and idk if it's in grf or core
19:04:27  <Alberth1> I was looking at the scale2x algorithm, it is amazing quality imho
19:04:28  <NoBrainHere> patterns *
19:06:21  * NoBrainHere waits for open Master of Magic
19:07:12  <andythenorth> Alberth1: haz they done underground yet?
19:07:24  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:07:28  <andythenorth> also is there some plce I can vote on features?
19:08:06  <andythenorth> also why is it not in 3D plz?
19:08:16  * NoBrainHere is ready to explode
19:08:22  <andythenorth> can't they just use the unreal tournament engine?
19:08:43  <andythenorth> in my comp sci class we made a 3D engine in like...1 hour
19:08:53  <Eddi|zuHause> EgoTTD!
19:10:24  <andythenorth> this game sux
19:10:28  <andythenorth> I'm leaving!
19:10:42  <SpComb> Egoted
19:10:51  <NoBrainHere> andy, shut the xeen up and slug off before you explode like a frog
19:11:40  <andythenorth> why so mean to newbs?
19:11:53  <NoBrainHere> because of saying "it sucks"
19:12:23  <andythenorth> well everything sucks to some extent ;)
19:12:32  <NoBrainHere> typical 3dmaniac, "modern gamer". CS1.6 is your game.
19:12:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, civ totally sucks as well :p
19:13:12  <NoBrainHere> I hate CS1.6, it's the symbol of 3d-craze of modern gamers
19:15:08  <Belugas> mmh...
19:15:16  <Belugas> sucks at being so expensive
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19:16:39  <Eddi|zuHause> awfully colourful that page
19:17:20  <andythenorth> Belugas: trying to buy something nice?
19:17:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and not really konqueror-friendly either...
19:17:49  <Belugas> rails
19:18:15  <Belugas> i want straight ones, but they only come with the curved ones
19:18:24  <Belugas> i have plenty of curved
19:18:36  <andythenorth> straight ones are *really* expensive on bricklink
19:18:37  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
19:18:43  <Belugas> ueah
19:18:49  <andythenorth> like way out of proportion to cost of buying a box
19:18:51  <Belugas> 2$ and more EACH
19:19:15  <andythenorth> I figured I could buy 10 boxes, sell half on bricklink and the rest would be paid for :P
19:20:00  <Belugas> hehehe
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19:20:08  <Belugas> i'm sure that's what dome do :)
19:20:47  <Eddi|zuHause> weren't there like a box of flextracks or so?
19:20:50  <andythenorth> one piece straight track....average sale price last 6 months: £1.77
19:21:03  <andythenorth> Price of a box of 8 straight, 8 curved from lego £10.99
19:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 8*1.77
19:21:21  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 14.16
19:22:15  <andythenorth> Belugas: just make really curved tracks :P
19:22:17  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should just switch to H0 tracks... those cost 1€ per piece
19:22:42  <andythenorth> curved track: avg sale price on bricklink: £0.29
19:22:49  <Belugas> flextrax are not good
19:22:57  <Belugas> very bad
19:23:05  * andythenorth disagrees....
19:23:15  <andythenorth> good for not worrying about track geometry
19:23:20  <andythenorth> bad for trains slipping on them
19:23:27  <andythenorth> I use 1-2 pieces to fill gaps
19:23:50  <NoBrainHere> ooo
19:23:54  <Belugas> slipping and "choking" and...
19:23:55  <Eddi|zuHause> so... why are straight tracks so extremely expensive?
19:23:58  <Belugas> not even good looking@
19:24:13  <Belugas> maybe because they are more wanted
19:24:37  <NoBrainHere> model railroad talks... on a channel for gentoo-ttd
19:24:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i should start buying packs, and selling the individual tracks for a win ;)
19:24:52  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: sell them to me :P
19:24:59  <andythenorth> hmm that plan is flawed :p
19:25:47  <andythenorth> there is a chinese company clones lego train tracks, they are cheaper
19:25:53  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: according to the numbers above, you should yield around 50% profit
19:25:58  <andythenorth> yup
19:25:59  *** NoBrainHere is now known as RagingTrashcan
19:26:06  <andythenorth> factored in shipping?
19:26:27  <Eddi|zuHause> not really ;)
19:26:39  <RagingTrashcan> Will there be a Toyota Coaster newgrf?
19:26:58  <Alberth1> if you make it, sure
19:26:59  <andythenorth> RagingTrashcan: well there's no law preventing it
19:27:05  <andythenorth> will there ever be anything?
19:27:06  <RagingTrashcan> Toyota Coaster carries 30 people.
19:27:11  * andythenorth ponders David Hume
19:27:18  <Belugas> Corrola !
19:27:20  <Belugas> in red!
19:27:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Nichts ist unmöglich!
19:27:40  <RagingTrashcan> no individual transports.
19:27:48  <Belugas> booo!
19:30:17  <Belugas> What bugs me is that even 9v rails are expensive
19:30:32  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- very interesting date calculation ;)
19:30:51  <Belugas> it feels like there is no real possibility to get decent cheap rails, apart a good bargain on the street
19:31:30  <andythenorth> Belugas: I've conclude I'm just going to save my pennies and buy more Cargo Train sets :)
19:31:49  <andythenorth> that way I get a few straights *and a whole extra train*
19:31:54  <andythenorth> probably not economic :P
19:32:10  <andythenorth> I already have 3x more train than track
19:32:15  <Eddi|zuHause> "save 10 pounds by paying 40 more!"
19:32:24  <Belugas> good plan andythenorth
19:32:31  <Belugas> just a funcking expensive one!
19:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i should probably start over with N gauge
19:33:22  <Belugas> why? switch to lego and join the club!
19:33:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm way too addicted to complex track layouts!
19:33:40  <Eddi|zuHause> but with H0, they don't fit anywhere...
19:33:59  * peter1138 ponders the lamb
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19:34:30  <andythenorth> buy the Cargo Train, sell the engine and wagons for $$$ on ebay?
19:34:30  <andythenorth>
19:34:41  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: get the Lego trains.
19:34:55  <andythenorth> the crashes are way more spectacular
19:34:56  <andythenorth> and way less expensive :P
19:35:58  <Eddi|zuHause> ca. EUR 91,21 <-- and where should i get those from?
19:36:10  <Forked> ebay, duh :p
19:36:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i can buy EUR from ebay? cool! :p
19:37:14  <Forked> well yes, by trading away items :)
19:37:15  <fjb> Get a water gun from eBay and rob a bank.
19:37:17  <RagingTrashcan> What minibus is the first bus of TTD modelled after?
19:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i should resell all those air guitars and WLAN cables i bought a while back...
19:38:03  <Belugas> andythenorth, which train set has the most tracks, from your knowledge?
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19:39:14  <andythenorth> Belugas: conveniently Cargo Train box is in front of me :)
19:39:29  <andythenorth> 8x straights, 2x points, 16x curves, 16x flex track
19:39:38  <andythenorth> the passenger train has only curves I think?
19:40:03  <Belugas> there are soe straights from memory
19:40:13  <Belugas> flex track? mmh...
19:40:16  <andythenorth> mm
19:40:27  * Belugas will check for Emerald train
19:40:54  <RagingTrashcan> the last model tracks set I've seen - had like 12 curves, two steering splits and 2 crosses
19:41:16  <RagingTrashcan> x0_0x
19:41:40  <RagingTrashcan> it had a batery-powered loco.
19:41:41  <andythenorth> Belugas: no tracks in emerald night
19:41:51  <Belugas> bitch :(
19:42:07  <RagingTrashcan> battery *
19:42:10  <RagingTrashcan> damn kboard
19:42:28  <Belugas> try a keyboard, it has more keys ^_^
19:42:28  *** izua [~izua@] has joined #openttd
19:42:36  <izua> hello.
19:42:54  <andythenorth> Belugas: you can get the emerald night engine on ebay / bricklink quite cheaply
19:43:00  <andythenorth> people buy the set for the carriage only
19:43:01  <izua> i wish to disable the 1-year test drive message boxes. i can't find the setting. any tips?
19:43:20  <RagingTrashcan> this keyboard is lame. And it enrages me.
19:43:20  <SmatZ> hello izua, no
19:44:51  <Belugas>
19:44:54  <Belugas> 2
19:45:01  <Belugas> just 2 small straight!
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19:46:10  <andythenorth> Belugas: resign yourself to snakey tracks with lots of curves :P
19:46:15  <andythenorth> no racing straights :)
19:47:45  * andythenorth ran out of money for Lego and started playing OTTD again this week :)
19:48:07  * RagingTrashcan possesses Belugas (dungeon keeper fashion) and kills andythenorth.
19:48:49  * andythenorth shrugs
19:48:58  <andythenorth> and not bovvered
19:49:22  * Belugas nods at andythenorth
19:49:54  <RagingTrashcan> you know, I'm an idiotic gamer
19:50:57  <Belugas> mhuwawawaw!!!!
19:50:59  <Belugas>
19:51:29  <RagingTrashcan> ebay canada?
19:51:41  <Belugas> that would be... normal for me
19:51:50  <andythenorth> Belugas: you win
19:51:51  <RagingTrashcan> =._.=
19:52:08  <andythenorth> Belugas: watch the crazy AFOL train fans bid the price up to 0C :P
19:52:09  <Belugas> it's my wallt who will loose
19:52:20  <Belugas> yeah
19:52:55  <andythenorth> Belugas: considered just running the trains on the floor?  Way cheaper....
19:54:54  <RagingTrashcan> AndyTh~1, wow... retired lego-train fanboys go to this remake of a 1995ie?
19:55:11  <Belugas> not as cute... my son loves building crazy track layout
19:55:17  <Belugas> as well as me... should i say..
19:56:05  <andythenorth> there is a strange noise in this channel today
19:56:22  <Belugas> :)
19:56:51  <RagingTrashcan> =(
19:56:59  <Belugas> by the way, i really want to get into bridge building.  so a little track set does not allow much possibilities
19:57:50  <andythenorth> Belugas: use lots of curves then :) and way less expensive
19:57:56  <andythenorth>
19:58:39  <RagingTrashcan> =_=
19:58:47  <andythenorth> this needs straights
19:59:13  <RagingTrashcan> lego day. bye, whackers!
19:59:21  *** RagingTrashcan [~yuraconst@] has left #openttd []
19:59:39  <andythenorth> I shall miss him
19:59:45  <andythenorth>  Belugas
20:00:06  <Alberth1> I like the first one better
20:00:21  <glx> and a wrong description ;)
20:00:42  <glx> oups forgot to scroll
20:00:45  <andythenorth> there are some really spectacular bridges on brickshelf
20:00:50  *** Kurimus [] has quit []
20:02:55  <Belugas> wow :)
20:03:11  <Belugas> now.. imagine the cash spent there...
20:03:28  <glx> <-- that's crazy
20:04:17  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
20:06:20  <andythenorth> Belugas: imagine the cash for this :O
20:09:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: ;)
20:10:33  <Eoin> ive not used my proper trainset for years
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20:17:19  * Belugas 's head spins
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20:19:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the dollar is cheap right now :)
20:20:10  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: not for me it isn't
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20:58:11  <andythenorth> can I reload hotkeys.cfg during game?
20:58:14  *** murr4y [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:01:53  <Yexo> no
21:02:47  <Yexo> but coding that would be almost trivial
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21:05:02  <Belugas> YEAH!!!!!!
21:05:09  <Belugas> HOME TIME@!!!!!!
21:05:09  <Belugas> byer
21:07:23  <Eddi|zuHause> beer as well!
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21:16:23  * C2H6O wÃŒnscht ne gute nacht
21:16:35  <izua> i'm new to openttd. if i want to help an industry produce goods (temperate terrain), do i need to provide all three ingredients?
21:17:32  <frosch123> one will do
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21:20:53  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- anyone have ~1500€ spare to build this? :p
21:21:57  <SpComb> just the track?
21:22:03  <SpComb> landscaping?
21:22:07  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:22:18  <Terkhen> a place to build it?
21:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: it's fitted to a room in this house
21:22:37  <duckblaster> spend 50 aud and get trainz, use that to simulate it
21:23:41  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: the program says tracks ~1100€, but the price list is probably not current
21:24:52  <duckblaster>
21:26:19  <izua> what's the most expensive resource in a model? rails?
21:26:40  <Wolf01> the controller
21:26:47  <Eddi|zuHause> izua: that's probably more like the cheapest...
21:27:07  *** eQualizer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:27:16  <izua> the main one? or the one in the engines?
21:27:26  <Eddi|zuHause> izua: wood for the plate is not cheap, each model engine is 100€ and above, and a digital controller for more than three engines costs a fortune
21:27:31  <izua> i'm asking because i did some hacks on a dcc controller last year for a guy
21:27:44  <izua> and i was planning on making some of my own
21:27:52  <izua> how much of a fortune, exactly?
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21:34:01  <Eddi|zuHause> izua: can't find reliable information, but fact is that each transformer typically can only handle three engines running simultaneously, so you need more than one of those, and then equipment to controll them centrally, etc.
21:35:19  <__ln__> so it's cheaper just to buy the tracks, not trains
21:36:29  <Eddi|zuHause> a track like i posted above easily can fit 10 trains
21:36:48  <__ln__> funny, i didn't know a product like this exists:
21:36:52  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: is my assumption that there are multiple "height levels" in that track layout correct?
21:37:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yeah ;)
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21:37:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: two should suffice ;)
21:38:00  <Rubidium> yup
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21:42:20  <izua> __ln__: wow, that's so incredibly pointless
21:44:14  <izua> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, I couldn't find any either. at some point i wanted to start doing model railroading (i have a cnc machine and some workshop skills), but there's only one such shop here, and they have a very narrow range of products.
21:45:07  <izua> the friend i helped with his dcc controller did it for quite a few years, back in the day when digital controllers weren't out yet.
21:45:12  <Eddi|zuHause> izua: looks like each device is between 50-100€
21:48:07  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 400/87
21:48:07  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 4.59770114943
21:48:45  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 4.4*87
21:48:45  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 382.8
21:49:17  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 12*87
21:49:17  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1044
21:49:37  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 8*87
21:49:37  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 696
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21:54:24  <izua> hmm, that's rather expensive
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21:58:31  <Eoin> wow
21:58:40  <Eoin> ALOT of games i have use those speedtree
22:00:47  <izua> why would anyone purchase that software?
22:00:58  <TomyLobo> 20k \o/
22:01:07  <izua> if you want to make models of trees for a game, you get a 3d design team
22:01:35  <Eddi|zuHause> izua: and if you want the trees to move in the wind?
22:01:35  <izua> if you want to make a lot of trees for a game, you make a generator, or ask the speedtree guys for an api.
22:02:11  <izua> isn't that the game engine's job?
22:02:45  <Eddi|zuHause> izua: maybe speedtree is a game engine?
22:03:00  <duckblaster> don't download it unless you have a really good connection
22:03:05  <duckblaster> it's 5GB
22:03:18  <duckblaster> auran jet is the game engine
22:05:22  <Eoin> its not a game engine
22:05:29  <Eoin> but they seem to have a bundle with Unreal Engine 3
22:05:44  <duckblaster> speedtree is just for trees
22:06:28  <izua> that's my understanding
22:12:24  <izua> what's the general approach to making profit?
22:12:32  <izua> ship stuff from opposing parts of the world?
22:12:58  <Terkhen> dump big amounts of coal into power plants
22:13:22  <izua> yesterday i tried 15 cities on a huge map with and airplanes
22:13:30  *** Vitus [] has left #openttd []
22:13:48  <izua> it wasn't very fun after cash flowed over 10M
22:13:49  *** duckblaster [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:14:44  <Terkhen> yeah... airplanes make money too easily
22:16:09  <TomyLobo> i almot have 20 billion euros now and it's still fun :)
22:16:25  <TomyLobo> managing airplanes itself isnt too much fun though
22:16:29  <Rubidium> Terkhen: that's one specific approach...
22:16:29  <Rubidium> Dspecific
22:17:06  <Rubidium> yay... for 4 minute lag :(
22:17:10  <TomyLobo> you can see another specific approach on my screenshot :)
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22:19:52  <Rubidium> anyhow... the generic approach to profit is making sure the income is higher than the cost. Each cargo has a specific cargo payment rate, meaning that after a certain distance (depends on the speed) the maximum income decreases
22:20:31  <TomyLobo> and after a certain, much larger distance, the income only increases ^^
22:20:35  <Rubidium> i.e. moving cargo half way the map and making two runs might be more profitable than hauling it from one side to the other for overall profitability
22:22:00  *** perk11 [~perk11@] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
22:23:25  <izua> Rubidium: you mean like looping?
22:23:35  <Terkhen> this reminds me that I should retake the speed graphs patch some day
22:23:58  <izua> if the distance between the two points is, say 1000, you're telling me to make a train move 4000 units before unloading?
22:24:09  <izua> that seems like a cheat :p
22:24:48  <Rubidium> izua: no, that making two runs of length 1000 might be more profitable than one run of length 2000
22:25:52  <izua> ah
22:26:01  <Rubidium> you'd be moving twice as much cargo in the first case, but the vehicle would make a higher profit than doing that one round trip that is twice as long
22:27:03  <Terkhen> <-- this might be helpful too
22:28:58  * Rubidium wonders what people would say about... heh, you've spent 255*2.5 days or more on travel... you're not getting paid!
22:34:31  <Terkhen> "this method is confusing and not realistic, you must implement a model based on supply and demand!"
22:35:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: finally makes those "takes 2 years to deliver" train's profit warning valid ;)
22:36:20  <Rubidium> Terkhen: supply and demand doesn't quite work in open source... there's lot of demand for stuff, but very little supply... however the cost is still very very low
22:38:39  <Terkhen> there is a good supply of low cost demands
22:40:14  <lasershock> Wish there was a way to force upgrade your depo when there is a train inside
22:44:44  *** NoBrainHere [~yuraconst@] has joined #openttd
22:45:16  <NoBrainHere> How to change a font in a .lng?
22:46:15  <Rubidium> you *could* make a NewGRF that makes all trains run on all tracks
22:47:18  <NoBrainHere> In presence of "open" sets, the settings window becomes too large.
22:47:32  <TomyLobo> lasershock including the trains preferably *g*
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22:49:07  <NoBrainHere> so how do I change the font in .lng?
22:52:26  <Wolf01> NoBrainHere, you can change the font in the openttd.cfg -> small/medium/large_font
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22:57:01  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> you *could* make a NewGRF that makes all trains run on all tracks <-- i think such a grf exists... like "universal engine" or something
22:57:44  <NoBrainHere> ...
22:57:51  <NoBrainHere> it's all handwritten now
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23:00:29  <NoBrainHere> does it seem to me, or is the base height of tahoma smaller than of times new roman?
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23:01:35  <NoBrainHere> this is a language fix for some windows that in Russian overheight the smallest window size
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23:25:52  <Terkhen> good night
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23:26:59  <Wolf01> 'night all
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