Log for #openttd on 15th August 2010:
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01:02:59  * TruePikachu wonders why the forum can't just be set to read-only during backup
01:04:48  <TruePikachu> If anyone here has played Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks, I'm actually going to make the railway system in OpenTTD to test efficiency of the rail layout
01:05:44  <TruePikachu> If you haven't, it basically is like a city layout with lots of different tracks to the same destination, and is generally very unrealistic
01:06:42  <TruePikachu> There actually is a map on GameFAQS, but I will be recreating the slopes as well, and some cargo chains will be changed (i.e Dark Ore goes to the Gorons, which goes to IDK where yet)
01:07:29  * TruePikachu wonders how to make trains consistantly ignore signals to make the 'bomb trains'
01:08:00  <TruePikachu> If anyone here has any idea about what I'm talking about, and would like to help, just say so
01:09:25  <TruePikachu> Oh, and I just remembered to write up a proposal for a new signal type which will improve throughput on single, bidirectional lines
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03:32:39  <DDR> Hi. In 1.0.3, does anyone know how the train's 'conditional jump order' works... or even what it's suppose to do?
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03:38:47  <sylf>
03:39:02  <sylf> yes, it works
03:43:45  <DDR> Thanks. I looked under the orders page.
03:45:34  <DDR> Oh, awesome!
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05:25:30  <andythenorth> morning
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05:42:39  <andythenorth> @seen frosch123
05:42:39  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 52 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: * frosch123 preemptively buys some food in case it is needed
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08:18:48  <Terkhen> good morning
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10:14:30  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20496 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove IsProductionMinimum()/Maximum(). The 0 and 255 constants are used all over the place, no need for trivial wrapper functions.
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10:44:26  <Wolf01> hello
10:45:50  <Alberth> hello
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10:49:11  <Wolf01> do you know if is possible to create a MSSQL database directly from the MSVC2005?
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10:58:24  <Alberth> I only know about unix.
10:59:26  <Rubidium> Wolf01: given it's Microsoft software I see no reason why it can't. After all, Word is the tool you should use to edit html.
10:59:29  <Alberth> but usually there is an API to program against with data bases
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11:00:22  <Wolf01> I found how to do it, its not so complicate, just add a new database after connecting to an existing database
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11:02:02  <Wolf01> I'm glad to see that varchar(10) has the same little bug of SSMS
11:02:20  <Wolf01> if you input varchar(10) it reverts to varchar(50)
11:02:26  <Wolf01> only with that value
11:02:51  <Wolf01> and varchar(10) is the value I use often :D
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11:37:56  <BCMM> i have a station with path signalling for the entry
11:38:23  <BCMM> is it possible to prevent trains who's exit is blocked going backwards out of the station and trying to exit via another platform?
11:39:05  <Alberth> with a roro station? no, afaik
11:39:42  <Alberth> can the train not wait a bit?
11:40:00  <Alberth> a picture would help in the discussion, I think
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11:45:56  <BCMM> Alberth: what does RoRo mean? not a terminus?
11:46:22  <Alberth> it means roll-on-roll-off, trains enter at one side, and exit at the other
11:48:03  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to turn off reversing at red signals
11:48:10  <Eddi|zuHause> by setting the wait time to 255
11:48:24  <Eddi|zuHause> go to the console and type "list_settings pf.wait"
11:48:36  <BCMM> ah, thanks
11:48:47  <Eddi|zuHause> those three settings there need to be set to 255
11:49:02  <BCMM> Eddi|zuHause: so you can configure how long a train has to wait at a red signal before it gets bored and tries reversing?
11:49:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
11:49:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what this is
11:49:29  <Eddi|zuHause> 255 means never
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11:50:10  <BCMM> that's useful
11:50:13  * SpComb ponders starting a new game of OpenTTD
11:50:36  <BCMM> because queuing trains will do it to, and it just wastes time if the signal goes green while they're bouncing around
11:51:30  <planetmaker> you can change it on a running game
11:51:54  <planetmaker> in the console you can change those settings
11:52:04  <planetmaker> set <settingname> <value>
11:52:06  <Alberth> hmm, this is a case that a pf will not recognize, I think
11:52:12  <Eddi|zuHause> since the widespread use of one-way signals, this setting has kinda lost its sense
11:52:28  <BCMM> how does reliability work?
11:52:46  <Eddi|zuHause> it has no effect if you disable breakdowns ;)
11:52:52  <BCMM> i mean, a new model is initially unreliable, then gets more reliable, then gets worse, right?
11:53:01  <Alberth> vehicles break down more often with lower reliability, unless you have disabled breakdowns
11:53:10  <SpComb> prototypes, iirc
11:53:12  <BCMM> i mean change in max. reliability over time
11:53:16  <Eddi|zuHause> suggestion: low reliability should increase running costs
11:53:38  <BCMM> so do most people turn breakdowns of?f
11:53:41  <BCMM> so do most people turn breakdowns off?
11:53:43  <SpComb> yes
11:53:46  <SpComb> anyone sane
11:53:59  <Alberth> thank you SpComb :)
11:54:00  <Eddi|zuHause> BCMM: it starts low, increases during the prototype phase, stays fairly constant, and reduces when the model life expires
11:54:06  <BCMM> ah
11:54:32  <BCMM> SpComb: so most people consider it to be annoying, rather than adding a challange?
11:54:54  <Alberth> many people want to have very crowded beautifully running tracks
11:55:09  <Alberth> I like the challenge instead :)
11:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause> BCMM: i don't know about "most", but a lot of people think like that...
11:55:54  <Alberth> the main trouble is that breakdowns have a bit too much impact
11:56:10  <SpComb> it might be worth playing with if you used service-at-depot orders and the breakdown game mechanic wasn't so clumsy
11:56:38  <Eddi|zuHause> there was an improved breakdowns patch
11:56:46  <BCMM> what changes did it make?
11:57:00  <BCMM> hmmm, i'm being stupid and can't find the option to disable breakdowns
11:57:10  <Alberth> game options
11:57:12  <Eddi|zuHause> it diversified the breakdowns, so you could have temporary reduce of power or max speed
11:57:20  <Eddi|zuHause> not always a full stop
11:57:29  <Eddi|zuHause> no
11:57:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it's in difficulty
11:57:47  <BCMM> if you've disable breakdowns, does that mean you can just carry on using expired trains forever?
11:57:55  <Alberth> it's good you are here Eddi|zuHause :)
11:58:29  <Alberth> yes
11:58:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20497 /trunk/src/ (network/network.cpp openttd.cpp): -Fix [FS#3960]: non-dedicated servers failing to load a game caused the introgame to be the server's game causing desyncs when people tried to join
11:58:55  <BCMM> Alberth: no, it's in difficulty settings
11:58:57  <BCMM> found it
11:59:38  <Alberth> yes, Eddi said it already, sorry for the confusion
12:00:16  <BCMM> np, thanks
12:01:47  <BCMM> i think i'll keep breakdowns off
12:02:01  <BCMM> it seems to become the limiting factor for how much traffic you can put through a station
12:03:31  <Alberth> it makes building infra structure quite more difficult indeed
12:05:49  <BCMM> well, it seems to me that with more than about four platforms, a station is always blocked by stuff breaking down while entering/exiting
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12:10:09  <Ammler> BCMM: just be sure a incomming train never blocks a leaving one
12:10:26  <Ammler> every plattform should have its own entry and exit line
12:10:45  <Alberth> that seems quite a large amount, do you have a picture?
12:11:58  <Alberth> I always build a depot at every station
12:12:32  <Ammler> Alberth: like a buffer?
12:12:50  <Alberth> for servicing
12:13:31  <Alberth> I don't like the use of depots as buffers :)
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12:14:44  <Ammler> neither
12:15:20  <Ammler> but who can do only what he likes?
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12:16:28  <SpComb> no, you must play according to my rules
12:16:51  <Rubidium> noone can
12:17:05  <BCMM> Alberth: where do people usually put pics?
12:17:36  <Rubidium> they used to put them in a box or photoalbum
12:17:44  <Rubidium> but now... :)
12:17:47  <Alberth> at an image paste, eg (although I have not tried that one yet)
12:18:06  <Alberth> or at the tt-forums :)
12:18:39  <BCMM> Alberth: and were you asking me for a screenshot?
12:18:45  <Ammler>
12:19:10  <Alberth>
12:19:35  <planetmaker>
12:19:50  <Alberth> yeah, that is so much easier to discuss station layout
12:20:08  <BCMM> if there isn't a convention here, i guess i'll use omploader, since it has a nice script for uploading things
12:26:13  <BCMM> Alberth:
12:26:53  <BCMM> i have fixed it a bit by making the far end of the exit tunnels (not shown) less likely to clog
12:27:11  <BCMM> and either one of turning off breakdowns or turning off reversing at lights fixes it completely
12:28:04  <Wolf01> mmmh stupid database collation...
12:29:30  <Alberth> you have signals directly after the station?
12:30:04  <Wolf01> which collation should I use to save "♂" chars in a database? LATIN1_CI_AI does not seem to recognise them ad displays "?"
12:30:31  <Rubidium> utf8 is a safe bet
12:30:36  <BCMM> Alberth: aren't those needed so that another train can enter a platform as soon as the previous train is in the tunnel?
12:30:58  <BCMM> Alberth: or is that not the case with path signals?
12:31:14  <Alberth> BCMM: yes, but I cannot clearly see it in the picture
12:31:23  <Alberth> (ie you need them)
12:31:30  <BCMM> oh i see
12:31:42  <BCMM> yeah, there's a row of unidirectional block signals there
12:33:00  <Alberth> I must try such a setup once :)
12:33:11  <BCMM> it's supposed to be an experiment into having a high-traffic station without taking up too much space
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12:33:52  <BCMM> i'm playing with that because i've noticed that citybuilder players always seem to end up needed to transfer at stations outside the city and move stuff in on road vehicles
12:33:58  <Alberth> lowering the station one level would eliminate the need for all the hills, but that may not a problem
12:34:16  <SpComb> screenshots go to :p
12:34:39  <BCMM> Alberth: yeah, i've considered that
12:35:06  <BCMM> the main reason it isn't is that at the point in the game where you can start such a station (before the city has grown up around it), you need to keep costs down
12:35:19  <Alberth> SpComb that site doesn't do anything without scripts
12:35:26  <SpComb> sure
12:37:03  <SpComb> hmm... OpenTTD fails at playing my gm/ music
12:37:16  <SpComb> just loops through the tracks ad infinitum
12:37:59  <SpComb> the md5sums match
12:38:09  <SpComb> from orig_win.obm
12:38:50  <SpComb> what do I need for MIDI on debian/ubuntu?
12:38:55  <frosch123> timidy
12:39:01  <BCMM> Alberth: i've lowered the station, and that allows the road bridges to be flat, which i like
12:39:41  <Alberth> nice
12:39:54  <SpComb> frosch123: is there a lib package for it, or just the timidity runtime package?
12:40:26  <BCMM> it wasn't slowing down the trains a great deal though, as far as i know
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12:41:06  <frosch123> i guess both work some way, but i do not know, never use music myself :)
12:41:11  <BCMM> the way to make it affordable is to start it out as a terminus, without tunnels, and with one end up against the city (with land reserved for tunnels later in the game when there is more money and traffic
12:41:50  <Rubidium> SpComb: the binary; the library isn't used by default
12:42:58  <Alberth> how a train reacts to a hill depends on the train model and what you carry, and some settings on steepness and freight weight multiplying
12:43:19  <Alberth> BCMM: yeah, you have to plan ahead with cities
12:43:39  <Alberth> but passengers are not that heavy :)
12:43:45  <SpComb> bleh, MIDI is a little too difficult
12:44:16  <SpComb> after installing timidity the tracks appear to play, but there's no actual music output
12:44:28  <SpComb> presumeably some ubuntu/pulseaudio/timidity configuration issue..
12:44:41  <Rubidium> yeah, that's quite likely
12:45:10  <SpComb> this kind of stuff should be instant-satisfaction :/
12:46:11  <Rubidium> SpComb: blame Ubuntu for diverging from the choices made by the party they "leech" the vast majority of packages from
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12:47:10  <Rubidium> the Debian maintainer generally doesn't get the bug reports from Ubuntu and in Ubuntu the package is "community managed"... so it's a big mess
12:47:27  <BCMM> you mean randomly patching stuff that in ways that upstream doesn't agree with?
12:48:32  <BCMM> Alberth: well, it's supposed to move goods as well
12:48:38  <Alberth> upstream never gets the patches :)
12:48:43  <BCMM> Alberth: and the citybuilder servers i've used have a 5x multiplier
12:48:45  <Rubidium> BCMM: not specifically
12:49:20  <BCMM> Alberth: my goal is to be able to afford a station like that in citybuilder, and never have to mess around with transfers and road vehicles for the final leg, which reduces revenue
12:49:53  <Rubidium> BCMM: more like changing the default in one package and magically believing that it doesn't backfire anywhere
12:49:58  <SpComb> very nice
12:50:10  <SpComb> I have both analogue 5.1 output, and digital S/PDIF output
12:50:21  <BCMM> in this configuration, it moves about 1000 units of food and water per month, plus a lot of passengers, without clogging up
12:50:25  <Rubidium> BCMM: it took over three releases before they got SDL + PA fixed even though the fix is really simple
12:50:28  <SpComb> gnome/pulseaudio/alsa is configured to output on the digital output
12:50:37  <SpComb> but the timidity midi stuff goes to the analogue output
12:50:41  <SpComb> only
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12:51:20  <Ammler> SpComb: timidity, freepats
12:51:29  <Ammler> oh,
12:51:38  <Ammler> next time I scroll down :-P
12:51:43  <SpComb> and so OpenTTD's effects sounds go to optical out, and the MIDI music goes to analogue out
12:51:58  <SpComb> *facepalm*
12:52:15  <BCMM> heh
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12:55:59  <SpComb> plus, both of these outputs are on the internal HDA intel card, and gnome's pulseaudio configuration GUI only lets you pick either digital out or analogue out for the given sound card
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13:17:17  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20498 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4030]: ignore the non-stop state when comparing one order type to another order type
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13:26:37  <SpComb> is it possible to configure the hold-shift-to-fastforward behaviour?
13:29:58  <Rubidium> yes
13:30:18  <Rubidium> though AFAIK only via configure
13:32:31  <SpComb> although hmm, according to the wiki, tab is supposed to fast-forward, but for me, tab does nothing, but shift fastforwards? :/
13:32:55  <Rubidium> SpComb: you did ./configure --enable-debug
13:33:23  * SpComb confused
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13:33:48  <Rubidium> which changes that behaviour; for some reason alt-tab did/does? keep pressed when alt-tabbing out of OpenTTD, which annoyed early devs
13:34:27  <SpComb> a little obscure
13:34:32  <Rubidium> I also seem to remember that tab is a single keystroke in OpenTTD whereas shift is a "state" making it easier to control how long the fast forward should take, i.e. making debugging easier
13:35:51  <glx> isn't it configurable via openttd.cfg now ?
13:36:07  <Rubidium> glx: doubtful
13:36:54  <Rubidium> it's pretty much hardcoded in each of the video drivers
13:37:38  <Alberth> grep -i with 'ff', 'forw', or 'fast' did not give a hit
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13:38:59  <Rubidium> Alberth: try src/video/*
13:39:04  <glx> indeed it's not configurable
13:39:38  <Alberth> just looking for a config setting in openttd.cfg
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14:06:55  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20499 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 5 dirs): -Doc: Spelling fixes, and one doxygen comment addition.
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14:18:53  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... on flyspray i cannot search for tasks i commented on. only ones i created
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14:47:42  <SpComb> hrmph, one crash already, fiddling around with the smallmap
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15:47:31  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20500 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix: When converting rail all trains with a part on the converted rails need updating. Not only engines, which have power afterwards. Also update Acceleration after updating Power.
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15:59:05  <ar3k> hello
15:59:58  <Rubidium> hi
16:01:46  <planetmaker> ho
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16:30:17  <BRNeckel> Hi
16:30:21  <Zuu> hello
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16:40:37  <BRNeckel> hey... is there anyone from brazil
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17:43:56  <enr1x> hello everyone! I have a quick question: I would like to distribute some OpenTTD binaries for OS X. Would someone like to try them?
17:45:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20501 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
17:45:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 3 changes by pda1573
17:45:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: chuvash - 7 changes by mefisteron
17:45:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: estonian - 5 changes by Jaanus
17:45:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 6 changes by IPG
17:45:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: turkish - 28 changes by niw3
17:46:49  <enr1x> or perhaps can I link to those binaries on the wiki?
17:47:25  <Rubidium> aren't there already like 5 people doing that?
17:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause> there are already several binaries around, how do you think yours are better than theirs?
17:48:00  <Wolf01> you need an "official" maintainer
17:49:00  <enr1x> Eddi|zuHause: i just want to contribute a bit, maybe if there are some OS X binaries around there will be more OpenTTD players...
17:49:29  <enr1x> if there are like 5 people doing that, I don't know about them, but it would be great to have binaries around...
17:49:33  <Ammler> maybe post your binaries/download links on the tt-forums thread
17:49:39  <enr1x> compiling doesn't take so much time
17:49:44  <enr1x> thanks for the suggestion Ammler
17:49:48  <Eddi|zuHause> enr1x: we have plenty of players, what we lack is a maintainer for OS X
17:50:20  <Ammler> afaik the problem with osx is that every single minor version needs its own binary
17:50:23  <enr1x> Eddi|zuHause: I wish my knowledge about compiling/debugging on OS X would be on par with the other systems, but I am afraid I am just an user, and occasional compiler
17:50:41  <enr1x> but as I said, I would be happy to contribute and learn
17:51:06  <Eddi|zuHause> enr1x: the bugtracker is full of OS X bugs... you are free to try any of them...
17:51:56  <enr1x> Eddi|zuHause: I don't think you can debug without having C++ knowledge, right?
17:52:12  <Ammler> you could learn to
17:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause> enr1x: the main problem is knowing the OS X api... the language skills needed are minor
17:52:47  <Ammler> testing and reporting is also needed
17:53:22  <enr1x> well, I come from linux background, i was used to playing OpenTTD on an iBook G4 with Arch Linux...
17:53:56  <enr1x> and I don't know anything about the OS X API. It's good that ottd compiles just great on these systems...
17:54:18  <Alberth> for as long as it lasts
17:54:37  <enr1x> I guess it wold be better to keep those binaries for me, then... but if i can help with bugtracking, i'll do that
17:55:16  <Alberth> at some point the compilation, or some driver will fail, and we don't know how to fix it
17:55:19  <Ammler> as said, you could the forums, there are already osx binary threads, maybe your version is missing
17:55:24  <Ammler> check*
17:55:52  <Alberth> enr1x: we need a bug solver instead
17:56:54  <enr1x> Alberth: I am afraid I don't have enough knowledge to solve bugs, but I will try to reproduce some when I have some time, and report on the bug tracker.
17:56:58  <Eddi|zuHause> enr1x: compiling for yourself isn't difficult, but compiling for other people is several magnitudes higher
17:58:06  <planetmaker> very much indeed
17:58:23  <enr1x> well, thanks a lot for your assistance everyone, will take note of this, and help when i can
17:59:06  <planetmaker> always welcome :-)
17:59:15  <enr1x> thanks, now let's get back to work ;)
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18:00:07  <andythenorth> Ammler: every single minor OS X version needs it's own binary?  :o
18:00:17  <andythenorth> I 'just' compile
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18:05:56  <planetmaker> andythenorth, of course. But if it comes to providing binaries it's mostly about the stable or testing releases
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18:15:42  <Ammler> andythenorth: that proves it, you need to compile it self and you can't share it as most probably nobody else could use it :-)
18:16:59  <Ammler> but luckily compiling on osx is almost as easy as on unix
18:17:49  <andythenorth> planetmaker: what happens if I send you my OS X binary?  Does it work?
18:19:04  <Rubidium> andythenorth: no, it wouldn't work for me
18:19:39  <andythenorth> Rubidium: and which minor version of OS X are *you* using? :P
18:19:39  <Ammler> andythenorth: that is my experience I got from the max osx user on #openttdcoop PublicServer
18:20:04  <Ammler> we gave up sharing osx bins
18:20:47  <Rubidium> andythenorth: 3 ofcourse
18:21:18  <Ammler> I guess, even that isn't enough
18:21:32  <Ammler> you also need to share the libs?
18:22:22  <andythenorth> Rubidium: for PPC?
18:22:50  <Rubidium> ofcourse... it's the only version that works emulated with OpenTTD
18:23:02  <Rubidium> it's only hellish slow
18:26:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20502 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix (r12330): VRF_POWEREDWAGON is part of train flags, not vehicle_flags.
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18:36:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20503 /trunk/src/train.h: -Fix (r18838): Powered wagons should check the railtype of the tile they are on, not where the engine is on.
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18:40:53  <planetmaker> <andythenorth> planetmaker: what happens if I send you my OS X binary?  Does it work? <-- didn't we try it the other way around once? :-)
18:41:03  <andythenorth> can't remember
18:41:47  <planetmaker> well. It may work. But it might not. You need to compile it against the 10.4u API which is the common denominator
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19:04:01  <JoeCamel> hey everyone
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19:06:03  <Joe_Camel> hi again, i got dropped...Anyway, is there a way to enable multiple engine sets in a game, without selling all my vehicles?
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19:08:19  <Alberth> you cannot change newgrfs in a running game without risking a crash
19:09:03  <Alberth> ie to add or remove any newgrf, you need to start a new game
19:09:46  <Alberth> (or rather the other way around, change the newgrfs in the main menu, then start a new game :)
19:10:10  <Joe_Camel> i added multiple already without problems, thats ok. My question is, is there any way to enable multiple engine sets, like, modifying the saved game...
19:10:25  <Joe_Camel> but i take that no such method exists
19:11:52  <Alberth> that is not possible indeed
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19:14:10  <Joe_Camel> too bad... but thanks anyways
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19:17:39  <TruePikachu> I'm going to reverse engineer a train length sorter, so I can modify and optimize it
19:19:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Joe_Camel: no, that setting can't be changed while you have any vehicles
19:19:16  <TruePikachu> Eddi|zuHause: Which setting?
19:19:33  * TruePikachu has no clue
19:19:37  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: shut up about things that don't concern you.
19:20:04  <TruePikachu> I'm just wondering
19:20:11  <Eddi|zuHause> then read the damn logs
19:20:24  <TruePikachu> ...
19:20:53  * TruePikachu goes back to the reverse engineering
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19:40:13  <TruePikachu> I hate complex signal arrangements
19:40:16  * TruePikachu gives up
19:40:33  <TruePikachu> I can barely tell what kind of signal each is
19:43:13  <TruePikachu> If anyone wants to have a go, I'll post the post number for the Forum
19:44:22  <Yexo> good evening
19:45:42  <TruePikachu> The source file is the attachment on post 835655 of the Forum
19:46:05  <TruePikachu> I'm trying to diagram it, but I can't identify the signals easily
19:46:35  <TruePikachu> I'll try the first post in the topic; it may be easier
19:48:51  <Rubidium> evening Yexo
19:49:49  <TruePikachu> Or, could someone pastebin a screenie of post 835276's sorter in 32bpp with  a closer zoom level?
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19:51:48  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: each post has a little icon at the top, where you can copy the link to the post and paste it here
19:52:07  <TruePikachu> Well, I have IRSSI running in tty1, not a Konsole window
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19:52:13  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
19:52:24  <TruePikachu> ...I can't copy/paste
19:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause> then that is your problem
19:52:39  <TruePikachu> brb (loading new session)
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19:54:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20504 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Move updating of train's visual effect to separate function.
19:55:47  <TruePikachu|Konsole> Okay, a direct link to the big trainlength sorter is , and it is hard for me to identify the different signal types
19:56:56  <TruePikachu|Konsole> The smaller one from a Co-op game is inside , which is hard to identify some signals, and the labels are distracting
19:56:59  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu|Konsole: there are 4 kinds of block signals. no bar, yellow horizontal bar, white vertical bar, and yellow vertical bar [from left to right in the signal gui]
19:57:10  <TruePikachu|Konsole> Eddi|zuHause: You forgot PBS
19:57:23  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu|Konsole: PBS signals are no block signals
19:57:29  <TruePikachu|Konsole> I definitly see a one-way PBS, and possibly a collection of 2 way PSB
19:57:35  <TruePikachu|Konsole> *PBS
19:58:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, so what is the problem?
19:59:05  <TruePikachu|Konsole> It is hard for me to identify some of the signals in the arrays from the screenshot
19:59:20  <TruePikachu|Konsole> Especially the ones that go left-right
19:59:39  <TruePikachu|Konsole> Those you see from the side
20:00:01  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20505 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#3978]: Allow changing visual effect when changing railtype.
20:00:13  <TruePikachu|Konsole> And the fence and maglev tracks don't help
20:00:18  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the problem there? the horizontal bars appear shorter than the vertical bars. or do you have trouble with white/yellow?
20:00:39  <TruePikachu|Konsole> The fence is yellow, and the mag-lev track is grey
20:00:59  <TruePikachu|Konsole> It makes it much harder
20:01:18  <TruePikachu|Konsole> (for me at least). It's strange, I'm actually good at detecting color differences
20:01:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the ones behind the fence are all plain signals
20:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and, the setup is mostly symmetrical
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20:02:32  <TruePikachu|Konsole> Oh yeah, I forgot :( I'm only mapping the upper half
20:02:47  <TruePikachu|Konsole> Because of that, I ignored the lower half completly
20:02:51  <TruePikachu|Konsole> lol
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20:03:18  <TruePikachu|Konsole> sorry
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20:03:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine it doesn't work with only one half, if trains are tightly spaced
20:03:44  *** TruePikachu|tty1 is now known as TruePikachu
20:03:56  <TruePikachu> Well, if I need to, I can double it up
20:04:09  <TruePikachu> Anyway, I use signal density of 4, not 2 loke the co-op
20:04:13  <TruePikachu> *like
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20:04:52  <TruePikachu> And, if you've really seen my networks...
20:05:04  <TruePikachu> let's just say I don't use compressors or cyclotrons
20:05:20  <TruePikachu> And rarely right now use priority merges
20:05:46  <TruePikachu> So spacing isn't really a problem
20:06:39  <TruePikachu> Sorting pax from freight is the problem
20:07:12  <TruePikachu> My pax are always at or less than 5 tiles, freight is usually more than 5
20:07:37  <TruePikachu> And waypoints look messy (with their signs all over the place)
20:07:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you can turn off waypoint signs
20:08:02  <TruePikachu> But it turns off all other signs IIRC
20:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> no, there are two separate settings [at least there used to be]
20:08:48  <TruePikachu> Well, in any case, the waypoints no longer look connected if they are ajacent
20:09:01  <TruePikachu> (and are technically the same waypoint)
20:09:21  <TruePikachu> There was a bug report or forum thread about this at one point
20:09:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that changed. i don't like it either
20:10:03  <TruePikachu> There should be an option for it. Anyway, what's the point of all those signal boxes?
20:10:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it has technical reasons
20:10:25  <TruePikachu> Can you suggest a good Waypoint NewGRF?
20:10:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i slways use the ones from newstations
20:11:07  <TruePikachu> Is it on BaNaNaS?
20:11:39  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's too old for that, and the author has not bothered to put it up
20:11:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you can download it from
20:12:03  <TruePikachu> Okay, I'll go to download it. brb
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20:15:45  <TruePikachu> It just goes in ~/.openttd/data/*.grf , right?
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20:34:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
20:35:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i usually create a subdirectory called "newgrf"
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20:48:30  <TruePikachu> Has anyone been working on making it so that all TTDPatch NewGRFs work in OpenTTD?
20:49:39  <TruePikachu> Just a thought that I have
20:50:25  <TruePikachu> Also, I have a new signal idea
20:51:36  <TruePikachu> You know how, when using bidirectional signals on one-track track, deadlocks can occur?
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20:53:08  <TruePikachu> The new signal will be red IF the block ahead is occupied OR if a train behind the signal, up to the first splitting junction, is heading towards the signal (i.e. going to pass from behind)
20:54:11  <TruePikachu> This way, you can have e.g. a 2 track mainline that merges to 1 track and later splits to 2 tracks again, with multiple blocks on the 1-track, without deadlocks
20:55:20  <TruePikachu> It can be a standard block signal with a circle under it (i.e. a gradient plate)
20:55:58  <TruePikachu> However, with the way signal NewGRFs are, it may not be possible to add a new signal type
20:56:01  <planetmaker> <TruePikachu> Has anyone been working on making it so that all TTDPatch NewGRFs work in OpenTTD? <-- that never occured to anyone as a good idea before
20:56:10  <TruePikachu> planetmaker: why?
20:58:40  <frosch123> hmm, weirdo is not such a bad name
21:00:32  <planetmaker> TruePikachu, OpenTTD != TTDPatch. That's why
21:00:59  <planetmaker> And it would mean to ignore a NewGRF's which to work differently on TTDPatch and OpenTTD
21:01:02  <VVG> leap years kinda screw up timetables built around a normal year cycle :/
21:01:19  <planetmaker> s/which/wish/
21:02:07  <TruePikachu> Ok
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21:02:36  <TruePikachu> VVG: Wait, does OTTD use leap years?
21:03:29  *** murr4y [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:03:35  <VVG> yep
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21:03:49  <TruePikachu> Standard *4 not 100 except 400?
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21:04:17  <VVG> what?
21:04:27  *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:04:27  <SpComb> new OpenTTD game succesfully started
21:04:42  <TruePikachu> 1900 is not a leap year
21:05:10  <TruePikachu> 1900 = 0 mod 4
21:05:22  <TruePikachu> 1900 = 0 mod 100
21:05:26  <TruePikachu> 1900 != 0 mod 400
21:05:50  *** KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:05:51  <TruePikachu> *ignore the 'mod 4' line
21:05:51  *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK
21:06:07  <TruePikachu> 2000 is a leap year
21:06:17  <TruePikachu> 2000 = 0 mod 400
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21:06:58  <VVG> what are you trying to say?
21:07:14  <TruePikachu> Every year that is a multiple of 4 is a leap year
21:07:23  <TruePikachu> EXCEPT years that are a multiple of 100
21:07:32  <TruePikachu> UNLESS the year is also a multiple of 400
21:08:48  <VVG> so?
21:08:59  <TruePikachu> Is that the way OpenTTD does leap years?
21:09:12  <TruePikachu> Or does it just have every 4th year be a leap year?
21:09:15  <VVG> no idea, check the code for that
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21:32:52  <TruePikachu> Could someone take off the second part of the closure request for FS4011? I misunderstood that Vitus is a user here and not a company
21:34:14  <Vitus> TruePikachu: Yes, I'm not company :P
21:34:51  <planetmaker> lool :-)
21:35:01  <Vitus> Just a thing: It might be useful if shading was triggered by wheel up and restoring window by wheel down, that might help in this case
21:35:16  <planetmaker> so... why do you, TruePikachu request a closure of avd's bug report?
21:35:19  <Vitus> And it make sense, also
21:35:27  <Vitus> *makes
21:37:44  <avdg> questions? :p
21:38:18  <planetmaker> avdg, I think that's not you, or is it? FS 4011?
21:38:25  <avdg> yeah
21:38:30  <avdg> misspelled my nick :p
21:38:35  <planetmaker> you're called there avdg, too... afair ;-)
21:38:43  <planetmaker> is it you? Oh
21:38:50  <avdg> yeah, donno
21:39:01  <avdg> something went wrong, but I can't remember how
21:39:09  <Vitus> You forgot to type "g"
21:39:14  <avdg> :-)
21:39:16  <planetmaker> ^ :-P
21:39:20  <avdg> and avdg is occupied
21:39:25  <TruePikachu> Well, like I said, it's the driver sending scroll signals too rapidly
21:39:53  <avdg> sad feature of osx :/
21:40:08  <TruePikachu> ^^^ that OS is the other problem :D
21:40:21  <TruePikachu> Apple causes too many problems for me to be useful
21:40:22  <avdg> since the driver update, we've got a faster scroll :p
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21:40:44  <Vitus> TruePikachu: What do you think about the suggestion? That might work, I think.
21:41:08  <TruePikachu> About reducing the speed? It most likely would work
21:41:09  <avdg> but touchpath is the feature, donno
21:41:13  <planetmaker> TruePikachu, still, I consider it quite thick that you request closure of other people's problems
21:41:27  <TruePikachu> Oh, well I didn't understand how the flyspray worked
21:41:33  <avdg> s/feature/future
21:41:34  <Vitus> Nah, I'm thinking about having shade on wheel up and unshade on wheel down
21:41:44  <planetmaker> Especially as there IS something which can be done: handling of driver information
21:41:47  <TruePikachu> Oh, that could work
21:42:13  <TruePikachu> Just make sure to set up an option in the Advanced Settings to change the functionality
21:43:16  <avdg> well, I really have to learn cpp I guess
21:43:18  <Vitus> Well, I don't think that's needed, but that's just my opinion. You might be right.
21:43:33  <TruePikachu> Someone who I got interested in OpenTTD is designing a 'kiosk' of the game with a touchscreen. Double-tap does right mouse button, triple-tap does scroll up
21:43:42  <planetmaker> Vitus, sounds better indeed
21:44:22  <avdg> the scroll _is_ a problem with touchscreen, indeed :/
21:44:23  <planetmaker> Why would I translate scrolling to a tripple click?
21:44:26  <TruePikachu> The option will be mandatory to prevent the person from having me re-write the driver software for the touchscreen
21:44:34  <planetmaker> a touchpad recognizes scrolling easily
21:44:45  <planetmaker> And the usual guesture for that is two fingers in parallel
21:45:02  <Wolf01> and there's always the left click scroll
21:45:09  <TruePikachu> No, they are using a touch screen (one similar to the DS bottom screen) on top of the monitor
21:45:20  <TruePikachu> It can only detect the median touch point
21:45:32  <TruePikachu> SIngle tap is for regular clicking
21:45:45  <TruePikachu> Double tap is for the right mouse button, for the tooltips
21:45:53  <planetmaker> not worth. Multitouch is the future
21:46:13  <TruePikachu> Triple tap is scroll up so you can triple-tap the title bar to shade, or the gameplay area to zoom in
21:46:23  <Vitus> I somehow forgot that GUI settings do not have to be stored in savegame, then why not :P
21:46:33  <Wolf01> I can use my bamboo fun tablet easily with ottd
21:46:39  <TruePikachu> They got a big old touchpad for cheap, so I have to design an interface driver for it
21:47:30  <TruePikachu> It can not detect standard 'multiple finger' gestures
21:47:52  <TruePikachu> It can only return x/y of touch when it is touched
21:47:58  <Vitus> TruePikachu: I'll add this idea to the task, you can them comment on the reasons for GUI settings :)
21:48:07  <TruePikachu> K.
21:48:24  <TruePikachu> Oh, and I'll post pics of the kiosk if they ever finish with building it
21:48:27  <Wolf01> TruePikachu, what's the problem with the left click scrolling?
21:48:39  <TruePikachu> Wolf01: ??? what do you mean?
21:49:06  <Wolf01> there's an advanced option to scroll the map with the left mouse button
21:49:19  <TruePikachu> Yeah, there is no problem there
21:49:35  <TruePikachu> The triple tap is like scrolling up the scroll wheel
21:49:52  <TruePikachu> It is equal to either zooming in or shading a window
21:50:01  <TruePikachu> *or unshading
21:51:03  <TruePikachu> But I digress
21:51:12  <Wolf01> imho, useless, the scrollwheel has been added because now every mouse have a scrollwheel, but all the actions are possible without it
21:51:38  <Wolf01> you shouldn't lose your mind on details like this
21:51:53  <avdg> indeed
21:51:56  <Vitus> TruePikachu: Comment added, feel free to add yours :)
21:53:16  <avdg> vitus: from where do you get these good ideas :p
21:53:21  <VVG> Anyone played with Improved timetables here? Was there an option of restarting a timetable to a preset start date if vehicle, after running through a cycle, arrived at first order before the start date? Or is it me misundertood something?
21:53:35  <Vitus> avdg: It's a secret :)
21:55:30  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: i don't remember that option
21:56:00  <TruePikachu> VVG: If it's a patch, then no, and I don't compile from source
21:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: i remember that the autoseparation had problems when the order of the vehicles was mixed up due to overtaking
21:56:28  * TruePikachu wishes that that patch was merged to trunk, though
21:57:43  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- i want to spank this guy...
21:58:43  <VVG> looks like it was me misundestanding
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21:59:51  <planetmaker> haha @ Eddi|zuHause :-)
22:00:35  <Eddi|zuHause> he has no clue about nothing, quotes Belugas out of context, and even Belugas failed on this problem...
22:01:00  <Rubidium> did Belugas really attempt it?
22:01:06  <Rubidium> or did he just toy a bit with it?
22:01:09  <TruePikachu> lol
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22:01:52  <planetmaker> blessed those who are poor in the mind? ;-)
22:02:18  <Rubidium> I only know Celestar and peter's attempts got to a state where vehicles could move over it
22:02:58  *** keoz [] has quit [Quit: keoz]
22:03:06  <Rubidium> though even then I'm wondering whether it's a Belugas quote or something I said
22:03:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: Belugas tried a more general overhaul of bridges
22:04:07  <Eddi|zuHause> but he failed at least on the time requirements ;)
22:05:18  <Wolf01> 'night
22:05:27  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:05:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: basically it was about storing bridges off-map, which could in turn lead to signals on bridges and bendy bridges
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22:32:29  *** Sacro__ is now known as Sacro
22:35:49  * TruePikachu wonders if there can be a way to get an AI to help you by, for example, spacing out trains automatically, or doing automated tasks that you tell it to do, to act as a subsitute to patches
22:36:21  <TruePikachu> Patches such as the timetables patch or the 'buy a square of land' patch
22:37:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20506 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Change: Vehicles will now stop loading after a load cycle that loaded less than possible, unless it's a full load order. This should improve behaviour with gradual loading and cargo continuously trickling in.
22:39:15  *** Kurimus [] has quit []
22:39:27  * avdg created a quick patch for the shade window
22:39:41  <VVG>
22:40:22  <avdg> wow, giant screenshot
22:40:33  <VVG> check travel times, i used autofill and aftest the 1st value i quickly made the route a few tiles longer, so it will be a bit higher than 65535 ticks
22:42:19  <VVG> s/aftest/after
22:43:07  <TruePikachu> VVG: I've always wondered by what you mean with things like 's/aftest/after'
22:43:16  *** BCMM [~ben@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:43:59  <VVG> switch aftest to/with after
22:44:15  <TruePikachu> any other first letter values for a/b/c?
22:44:41  <VVG> dunno
22:44:46  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:44:53  <TruePikachu> You just make them up?
22:45:29  <VVG> that's a know expresion but i have no idea about its roots
22:45:37  <avdg> patch works...
22:45:45  <avdg> trough I have to revert the direction
22:46:05  <TruePikachu> oh
22:46:16  <avdg> a 1liner, its nice
22:46:19  <planetmaker> s/value/replacement/
22:46:28  <planetmaker> is a command from the editor vi or vim
22:46:53  <TruePikachu> Oh, nice
22:46:58  * avdg wonders who is using vim
22:47:01  <avdg> I am
22:47:05  * TruePikachu is using Vim
22:47:05  <planetmaker> windoze users don't know that, of course. Nor linux clicky-bunty users ;-)
22:47:11  * planetmaker uses it, too
22:47:18  <planetmaker> wait, you use it?
22:47:22  <TruePikachu> I actually rarely use a replace statement
22:47:25  <planetmaker> Then... you should damn well know
22:48:01  <TruePikachu> Did you know that :wq actually works? I figured it out about a month ago
22:48:05  *** ptr_ [] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz]
22:48:15  * planetmaker uses that command daily
22:48:30  * TruePikachu saw his friend use :w!q a week ago
22:48:34  <avdg> k, rebuild
22:48:36  <avdg> lets see
22:48:52  <SpComb> also known as :x
22:48:54  <planetmaker> avdg, assertion failed at ... ;-)
22:48:54  * Rubidium used to use vim, but now it's called cif
22:49:03  <TruePikachu> Oh, I'll look into :x
22:49:05  <avdg> no assert needed :)
22:49:12  * TruePikachu uses gVim on occassion
22:49:28  <planetmaker> SpComb, but then I know the difference to !q or !w. One thing less to remember ;-)
22:49:39  <avdg> hmm
22:49:55  <avdg> does feel a bit strange
22:50:23  <avdg> because it only works if you move the scroll up or down and not the other direction
22:50:38  <TruePikachu> In vim, use :help 42
22:50:39  <avdg> well, I'll post the patch
22:51:11  *** Devroush [] has quit []
22:52:40  * avdg wonders the command to create a patch :p
22:53:03  <Ammler> vcs diff
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22:54:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i have my doubts "clicky-bunty" translates to what you want it to ;)
22:54:30  <avdg> I can't believer there is an topic about how to apply a patch with 33 pages of spam
22:54:51  <TruePikachu> Since when do patches have 33 pages of spam?
22:55:10  <avdg> figural
22:55:23  <TruePikachu> I know, it's a habit...
22:55:32  <TruePikachu> It's like:
22:55:47  <TruePikachu> #include <io.h>
22:55:54  <TruePikachu>  /* Om nom nom nom */
22:56:04  <avdg> :/ svn diff
22:56:07  <Eddi|zuHause> avdg: better than to have 33 pages of spam on the thread list
22:56:09  <avdg> wtf that simple
22:56:47  <avdg> k, it works
22:56:50  <TruePikachu> Eddi|zuHause: Better to have 33 pages of spam be deleted :D
22:57:13  <Eddi|zuHause> avdg: it's basically a "honeypot" thread to fetch out most of the clueless people
22:57:24  <TruePikachu> Wait, I missed your word 'than'
22:58:51  <Rubidium> s/clueless people/people who can't read or follow instructions/
22:59:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: well, those two groups have massive overlap :p
22:59:36  *** ^Spike^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:59:44  <TruePikachu> s/those people/n00bs
23:00:14  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: you miss a / at the end
23:00:20  <TruePikachu> Oh
23:00:50  <avdg> eddi: yeah maybe :)
23:00:59  <avdg> <3 honeypots
23:01:05  * Rubidium wonders how clueless people who can't follow instructions get around in traffic... by trial and error?
23:01:15  <avdg> lol
23:01:36  <glx> too many
23:01:42  <avdg> remembers me to some dummy code
23:01:55  <ccfreak2k> Rubidium, driving test.
23:01:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: those are the people who shout the loudest at how bad other people are driving
23:01:58  <avdg> go left till you cant go left, switch to right, etc...
23:02:33  <TruePikachu> O_o @ map generator
23:02:46  <TruePikachu> I got an awsome starting position
23:02:48  <VVG> consequences force most to actually follow some base instrusctions, don't they?
23:03:07  <Rubidium> on the other hand... having... following instructions without thinking isn't good either; going to the south of France following the signs "Paris" and ending up in the centre of Paris :)
23:03:09  <avdg> ok patch online
23:03:44  <glx> Rubidium: actually these signs are useful for me ;)
23:03:50  <TruePikachu> 1 town, 1 city near each other, both using 3x3 tile blocks (i.e. bigger blocks), alignment almost perfect
23:04:12  <TruePikachu> One town at upper left of area, other city at lower left
23:04:45  <TruePikachu> The direct line between them has alignment for the grids
23:04:57  <TruePikachu> The other direction is misaligned by 2
23:05:05  <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> i have my doubts "clicky-bunty" translates to what you want it to ;) <-- that's untranslatable ;-)
23:05:08  <TruePikachu> Which looks nice
23:06:22  <Rubidium> it's actually a surprisingly often used word
23:06:35  <Rubidium> and... it works fine in German as well
23:06:47  <Rubidium> "Weil die Webdesigner von MSN offenbar Routine in Clicky-Bunty haben, aber nicht wirklich Ahnung von guter, zweckmÀßiger Informationsdarbietu​ng. ..."
23:06:50  <planetmaker> "clicky-bunty"?
23:06:58  <TruePikachu> Ubuntu, I think
23:06:59  <planetmaker> I'd not expect it to work in English
23:07:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: well, yes, it makes perfect sense in german ;)
23:07:27  <TruePikachu> Translate it from German to English
23:07:38  <planetmaker> but like "clicky-colourfully" doesn't sound nice ;-)
23:07:41  <TruePikachu> What is the literal translation?
23:07:53  <planetmaker> and it's not a good translation either
23:08:05  <planetmaker> As it plays with words, with rhyme and is all non-words
23:08:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: although i would write it with -i at the end
23:08:11  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:08:12  <avdg> a question: does it matter if I call setShaded to set true if setShaded is already set on true?
23:08:14  <Rubidium> oh... first two pages of google... 11 times English, 9 times German
23:08:17  <VVG> i think i'll give up timetabling until something like virtual time from improved timetables makes it into trunk :(
23:08:26  <TruePikachu> avdg: I would think not
23:08:38  <planetmaker> avdg, not really
23:08:48  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: feel free to update the patch
23:08:55  *** Brianetta [~brian@] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
23:09:00  <TruePikachu> Just like with some random guy's BASIC code:
23:09:03  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, that would be appreciated
23:09:05  <TruePikachu> 10 x%=0
23:09:10  <TruePikachu> 11 x%=0
23:09:20  <TruePikachu> 12 if x%=0 goto 10
23:09:27  <Rubidium> I've got a mercurial queue from the original author
23:09:31  <TruePikachu> 13 <some other code>
23:09:32  <avdg> :p <3 basic
23:09:37  <VVG> that's not an incentive enough to learn coding :p
23:09:47  <TruePikachu> Oh, I put on line numbers
23:10:24  <TruePikachu> They literally set x to 0 two lines in a row, then jumped to the beginning of the program if x equals 0
23:10:34  <Rubidium> #define someone VVG
23:10:39  <Rubidium> there... that should do the trick
23:10:49  <TruePikachu> ?
23:11:08  <VVG> there, i don't even get that
23:11:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i would love to do it, but the last time i tried, i made a total mess of the GUI code
23:11:58  <TruePikachu> What console command changes the start year for the command "newgame"?
23:12:01  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: it replaces all future references to "someone" by "VVG"
23:12:12  <TruePikachu> Can someone answer?
23:12:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Can VVG answer?
23:12:34  <TruePikachu> ^^ yes
23:12:47  <TruePikachu> But seriously, how do I change the start year?
23:12:48  * VVG hides
23:12:56  <TruePikachu> Is someone hiding?
23:13:11  <VVG> #undef someone
23:13:14  <VVG> does that work?
23:13:16  <TruePikachu> no
23:13:31  <TruePikachu> At least, I don't think so...
23:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: if list_settings doesn't help you, i don't see any chance other than to edit the cfg and start
23:13:39  <TruePikachu> #define is a compiler command
23:13:49  <TruePikachu> or something
23:13:59  <TomyLobo> preprocessor*
23:14:01  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: no, it's called preprocessor
23:14:03  <TruePikachu> It is never interpreted
23:14:09  <TomyLobo> it is
23:14:12  <TruePikachu> (by the actual program)
23:14:13  <TomyLobo> by the preprocessor
23:14:22  <TomyLobo> you mean by the actual compiler
23:14:24  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but... you only need to change it to the new style. That can't be that much work for those few windows :)
23:14:29  <TomyLobo> ok, a compiler IS a program :)
23:14:33  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: yes, that should work ;)
23:14:44  <TruePikachu> No, the #define statements do not go into the binary
23:15:04  <TomyLobo> binaries arent interpreted
23:15:09  <TomyLobo> they're run on the cpu
23:15:15  * TruePikachu facepalms
23:15:19  <TruePikachu> You know what I mean
23:15:22  <TomyLobo> :)
23:15:35  <TomyLobo> of course i do :)
23:15:36  <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: the CPU is an interpreter (of machine language)
23:15:41  <TruePikachu> Yes
23:15:54  <planetmaker> if you don't say what you mean, you'll never mean what you say.
23:16:01  <planetmaker> It especially fails when splitting hairs
23:16:10  <TruePikachu> And funny things happen when I make my calculator execute the bytecodes CD 95 9D
23:16:37  <TruePikachu> That means, when written in z80 ASM, "CALL ProgramStart:"
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23:16:46  <TomyLobo> why does your calculator have a bytecode?
23:16:49  <TruePikachu> It stack overflows and RAM clears
23:17:09  <TomyLobo> oh, you mean machine code and a ti calc
23:17:12  <TruePikachu> TomyLobo: Because it is programmable, it is a TI-84+SE
23:17:14  <TruePikachu> Yes
23:17:17  <TomyLobo> thought you were talking about a program :)
23:17:21  <TruePikachu> It is
23:17:29  <TomyLobo> i mean a calculator program
23:17:31  <TruePikachu> On a TI-83
23:17:36  <TruePikachu> It is
23:17:59  <TomyLobo> and yeah, using CALL once per cycle tends to fill up the stack pretty quickly :)
23:18:03  <TomyLobo> not surprising
23:18:04  <TruePikachu> Make a BASIC program prgmAA with contents ":AsmPrgm:CD959d"
23:18:16  <TruePikachu> If you use C3 instead, it jumps
23:18:37  <TruePikachu> (step 2) Execute Asm(prgmAA)
23:19:01  <TruePikachu> If you have it jump, it freezes, and you have to battery pull, which clears RAM as well :)
23:19:41  <TomyLobo> not even pressing the on key works?
23:19:44  <TruePikachu> Nope
23:19:52  <TruePikachu> ON only breaks out of BASIC programs
23:19:53  <TomyLobo> ah right, that was only for basic programs
23:20:03  <TomyLobo> long time ^^
23:20:19  <TruePikachu> TomyLobo, have you ever been to #tcpa ?
23:20:32  <TruePikachu> (over on efnet)
23:20:55  <TomyLobo> last thing i did with my ti calc was hardwire an ac adaptor to it and use it as a terminal for a tool i wrote :)
23:21:16  <TruePikachu> What model?
23:21:37  <TomyLobo> to query some daoc-related database and issue some commands, like controlling winamp and things like that
23:21:49  <TomyLobo> ti-83
23:21:53  <TruePikachu> Plus?
23:21:55  <TomyLobo> no
23:22:01  <TruePikachu> Oh...
23:22:15  <TruePikachu> You have a BlackLink for it, do you not?
23:22:23  <TomyLobo> no idea
23:22:32  <TruePikachu> The computer cable
23:22:32  <TomyLobo> mine was grey but this is europe so it might be different
23:22:40  <TruePikachu> So yeah, you do
23:23:04  <TruePikachu> 2 sites: (I actually have an author profile over there)
23:23:09  <TruePikachu> and
23:23:10  <TomyLobo> otherwise i wouldnt have been able to pull off the terminal thing :)
23:23:12  <TomyLobo> nah
23:23:17  <TruePikachu> First is a database of programs
23:23:32  <TruePikachu> Second is the site of someone who does amazing things with a calc
23:23:39  <Rubidium> yay for ti83s gathering dust
23:23:42  <TomyLobo> lost interest
23:23:51  <TomyLobo> a couple of years ago
23:24:09  * TruePikachu is working on writing a program for his 84+SE which will automatically calculate timetables for OpenTTD
23:24:23  <TruePikachu> And the calc's OS is hacked
23:24:26  <Rubidium> what a waste of money that was :)
23:24:34  <TomyLobo> eh? why does that need a ti calc?
23:24:40  <TruePikachu> @me?
23:24:44  <TomyLobo> yes
23:24:49  <TruePikachu> It is a programmable calculator
23:24:53  <TruePikachu> I can program on the go
23:24:54  <TomyLobo> i mean the timetables thing
23:25:03  <TomyLobo> get a lappy :)
23:25:07  <TruePikachu> Oh, to keep airplanes perfectly spaced out
23:25:50  <TruePikachu> TomyLobo: I can't get a laptop, development is a terrible idea directly inside DSLinux, and I can use BBC Basic on my calc
23:26:07  *** avdg [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:26:26  <TruePikachu> BBC may be old, but it is very similar to qBasic, the first dilect of BASIC I've ever used, and the only programming language I've mastered
23:27:06  *** avdg [] has joined #openttd
23:27:18  <TomyLobo> 26 dollars 15 minutes left :P
23:27:48  <TruePikachu> I don't use e-bay, and I don't need another computer to remotly maintain
23:27:59  <TruePikachu> We have 5 computers in this house
23:28:28  <TruePikachu> (meaning PCs, not all network connected devices, of which we have 3 more)
23:28:37  <TruePikachu> (at least 3 more)
23:28:53  <TruePikachu> 3 of them are desktops, and 2 of them are laptops
23:29:00  <TruePikachu> The laptops belong to my sisters
23:29:04  *** nicfer [~nicfer@] has joined #openttd
23:29:33  <TruePikachu> This computer is the oldest of the desktops (and ironicly the computer with the newest OS version on it)
23:29:57  <TruePikachu> The newest of the desktops is a piece of junk right now; barely runs at all
23:30:48  <TruePikachu> I do a lot of network matinence daily, and I check software versions on all connected devices daily
23:31:21  <TruePikachu> Now, I want to do OpenTTD
23:32:02  <TruePikachu> ** Feature Request: add grep to the console
23:32:45  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20507 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt toolbar_gui.cpp): -Change: Remove the shortcut hints from the screenshot menu strings (as they're configurable now) and rename "Giant screenshot" to "Whole map screenshot".
23:32:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20508 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add [FS#3973]: A new screenshot type that makes a zoomed-in screenshot of the visible viewport. (Eddi)
23:33:42  <planetmaker> :-O
23:34:15  <avdg> hmm nice...
23:34:29  <avdg> I'm getting used to modify the openttd code
23:34:52  <avdg> the codebase is a lot easier then I thougth
23:36:20  <planetmaker> avdg, that depends :-) Some things: yes. Some others: there are interesting inter-dependencies
23:36:42  <avdg> yeah, but I'll see
23:36:58  <TruePikachu> Ummm...I'm not getting the proper game...
23:37:06  <michi_cc> Yeah, a lot better than many open-source projects (and closed-source projects as well). And the SVN history is actually useful...
23:37:51  <Rubidium> try src/pathfinder/yapf/* (or nforenum's source)
23:38:06  <michi_cc> Commit log of the last commercial software I've seen, horrible, just horrible..
23:38:12  <avdg> well, I have to sleep now
23:38:13  <avdg> gn
23:38:18  <planetmaker> g'night avdg
23:38:25  *** avdg [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:39:56  * Rubidium wonders why I always have to think of Avogadro when seeing his nick
23:40:01  <TruePikachu> Ummm...look at this transcript:
23:40:08  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
23:40:13  <planetmaker> hehe
23:40:42  <TruePikachu> ] newgame 30088245347
23:40:45  <TruePikachu> ] getseed
23:40:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i always think of "average"
23:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how the "d" fits in ;)
23:40:56  <Rubidium> and now I start to wonder how many people have a clue what Avogadro is about
23:41:08  <planetmaker> :-)
23:41:16  <TruePikachu> Generation Seed: 2147483647
23:41:17  <planetmaker> about googol numbers ;-)
23:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: that is a perfect example of the output of clamp()
23:42:07  <TruePikachu> ?
23:42:36  <TruePikachu> =2^31 - 1
23:42:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20509 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Change: don't cycle (quickly) through the shade states. Just make scrolling up shade the window and scrolling down unshade it. (avdg)
23:42:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i only know Avocado and Advocate ;)
23:43:08  <TruePikachu> But I had generated a game which returns that the generated map had that other (300...) seed number
23:43:19  <planetmaker> :-O that was quick for a feature-patch :-)
23:43:48  <planetmaker> TruePikachu, you hadn't.
23:43:56  <TruePikachu> I had, and I have the savegame
23:44:07  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it isn't a -Feature: ;)
23:44:18  * TruePikachu will go to post it on the flyspray
23:44:23  <planetmaker> :-) It's a FIX ;-)
23:44:37  <TomyLobo> !google numbers
23:44:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20510 /trunk/src/network/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify packet queue handling and make insertion O(1) instead of O(n)
23:45:01  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no, it's a -Change: ;)
23:47:21  <michi_cc> Today was no-feature-day :)
23:47:35  <planetmaker> Yeah... just some boring adds ;-)
23:47:43  <planetmaker> nothing new. Please go on... ;-)
23:47:58  <Rubidium> yeah... everything we do for it to not show on :)
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23:48:10  <planetmaker> loool
23:51:11  <TruePikachu> FS4036
23:54:26  <TruePikachu> How can I hex edit my savegame to change the year?
23:54:37  <Eddi|zuHause> open the cheat window
23:54:51  <TruePikachu> No, I'm doing this game cheat-free
23:54:51  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, wrong. That won't help to hex-edit it
23:55:04  <Eddi|zuHause> for hex-editing you need to make uncompressed savegame first
23:55:06  <TruePikachu> Please see FS4036
23:55:19  <TruePikachu> I have the file on there
23:55:30  <TruePikachu> But it won't hurt to have me learn
23:55:53  <TruePikachu> How would I make an uncompressed savegame?
23:56:17  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also try the scenario editor
23:56:46  <TruePikachu> Oh, I'll try that instead (and push the town over and make it a city)
23:56:51  <TruePikachu> :)
23:57:50  <TruePikachu> (and remove some industries)
23:58:18  <planetmaker> you also should add and remove some industry newgrfs.
23:58:45  <TruePikachu> do I import a savegame into the scenerio editor?
23:59:05  <TruePikachu> planetmaker: I don't use industry GRFs
23:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure you're intelligent enough to figure that out by yourself
23:59:28  <TruePikachu> But I can't figure it out
23:59:32  *** JVassie [~James@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:59:38  <TomyLobo> TruePikachu with windows explorer :)
23:59:43  <TruePikachu> Lol
23:59:48  <TruePikachu> I'm using Linux
23:59:50  <Eddi|zuHause> then call on us if you didn't figure it out in half an hour

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