Log for #openttd on 27th August 2010:
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00:09:03  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: it doesn't work, simply due to the fact that signals can't consider speed. you either get slow trains trying to overtake faster trains, or you get trains waiting behind trains that have broken down, without trying to overtake
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00:24:58  <TruePikachu> Eddi|zuHause2: :(
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02:02:26  <TruePikachu> Lol, was just reading a site that posted in their blog that they decompiled a game for 3-5 year olds, and found a huge database of 'innappropiate' words (i.e. cuss), and a function from which those words can easily be displayed
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02:58:56  * TruePikachu successfully crashed his Wii
02:59:30  <TruePikachu> while loading on it
03:00:04  <TruePikachu> Someone should check the webserver
03:02:34  <TruePikachu> I don't have any idea of the problem, and Firefox didn't crash
03:03:09  <TruePikachu> Neither did the DS web browser, which is Nintendo-Opera, just like the Wii
03:03:36  <TruePikachu> It could be a random bug; I may be able to submit a report to the FS
03:05:13  <TruePikachu> FS: Nope, no categories fit.
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03:48:39  <ccfreak2k> How about launching openttd on your Wii? :)
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04:52:55  <devilsadvocate> TruePikachu, there are elaborate track and signal configurations that let you do that. they are good for goofing around / playing in the insane ottdcoop games, but in general I've found them to be somewhat tiresome
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05:03:09  <planetmaker> moin
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05:11:03  <Rubidium> oi
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05:28:25  * __ln__ is back from the land of the free
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05:30:35  <roboboy> ello
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05:54:06  <planetmaker> hm, interesting perl script... nice addition to grfcodec -d for vehicles
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06:17:47  <roboboy> fecking DOS doesn't like my mouse anymore. It liked it earlier this week
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06:22:34  <planetmaker> did you install cat? ;-)
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06:43:57  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:13:22  <SmatZ> __ln__: back from Norway?
07:13:35  <Forked> Norway! \o/
07:13:51  <SmatZ> :)
07:17:17  <dihedral> good morning
07:17:27  <SmatZ> hello dihedral
07:17:41  <dihedral> :-)
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07:41:33  <dihedral> <SmatZ> deadlock is not good <- if there were good deadlocks they would not have that very distinctive prefix "dead" :-P
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08:06:26  <SmatZ> "hello" has prefix "hell" and there isn't anything bad about that :-p
08:07:06  <SmatZ> (well, not prefix...)
08:13:31  <Rubidium> but being a deadpan during poker can be good
08:15:13  <dihedral> :-P
08:15:36  <SmatZ> :)
08:23:52  <Rubidium> deadbolt locks for that matter are generally quite good as well (except when you need to break them)
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08:25:10  <SmatZ> :)
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08:35:36  <dihedral> stdeady :P
08:42:13  <planetmaker> hm, was actually my impression correct that - if version information is available via action14 - only the newest version of a newgrf is displayed in the newgrf selection dialogue?
08:42:27  <Rubidium> yes
08:42:57  <Rubidium> also that one will be loaded if the "correct" one is missing
08:43:08  <Rubidium> though the "correct" one still takes precedence
08:44:28  <planetmaker> I'd like a switch to enable a "show all available versions"
08:44:28  <planetmaker> Currently I couldn't design a scenario with stable versions when I have my development versions around
08:44:39  <planetmaker> By default this hiding of old versions is good though :-)
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08:45:06  <Rubidium> planetmaker: something like a "newgrf_developers" like an "ai_developers" setting?
08:45:26  <planetmaker> Possibly. I already thought whether it could just use the very same setting
08:46:01  <planetmaker> But maybe a new one is better; there might be players with the same desire. Not sure
08:46:26  <Rubidium> planetmaker: "newgrf_show_old_versions" setting?
08:46:42  <planetmaker> maybe not newgrf_... but addon_...
08:46:47  <planetmaker> then it could apply to AI just the same
08:47:12  <planetmaker> no need for two different settings IMHO
08:47:38  <planetmaker> But it might be nice to have a toggle in the selection window
08:48:01  <planetmaker> or would that be unfavourable?
08:48:22  <Rubidium> planetmaker: my point is... that last setting is available in OpenTTD's since r20259
08:48:28  <Rubidium> s/'//
08:49:42  <planetmaker> :-D
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08:49:51  <planetmaker> I didn't notice that
08:50:48  <planetmaker> it's a cfg-only setting?
08:50:58  <Rubidium> yes!
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08:52:11  <planetmaker> hm... either my routing to is broken or has issues
08:53:30  <Rubidium> planetmaker: it's "routing"
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08:58:06  <planetmaker> hm... :-( or :-)
08:58:47  <Rubidium> there's definitely something with the routing, just look at the end of;png=daily
08:59:42  <planetmaker> yes. no ping of is fine. So are most of my other usual pages
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09:02:31  <planetmaker> :-D I could look at that 2 minutes ago. Now it doesn't work anymore ;-)
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09:04:05  <Rubidium> oh... good reasons to migrate to IPv6! is still reachable over IPv6
09:04:55  <planetmaker> you might have different routing than I do :-)
09:05:07  <lordaro> can i assume from the fact that i can't connect to and the comment above, has gone down?
09:05:16  <planetmaker> no
09:05:20  <Rubidium> lordaro: yes and no
09:05:43  <lordaro> yes AND no?
09:05:44  <Rubidium> it looks down, but the server is still alive; it can be reached over IPv6, but it can't over IPv4 (what most people use)
09:06:02  <lordaro> and that's annoying?
09:06:15  <lordaro> :)
09:06:16  <Rubidium> in other words, somewhere someone messed up a router's configuration or a router blew out
09:06:57  <lordaro> how long to fix?
09:07:03  <planetmaker> lol
09:07:19  <Rubidium> lordaro: you'd have to ask the owner of the broken router
09:07:34  <planetmaker> He'd first have to find out who the owner is :-)
09:07:34  <Rubidium> which is... idunno in idunno
09:07:53  <Br33z4hSlut5> is that an apple product?
09:07:55  <planetmaker> good point: and where :-)
09:08:05  <planetmaker> cisco most likely
09:08:29  <Br33z4hSlut5> iDunno ;)
09:08:39  <lordaro> where in relation to us? e.g. server room or whatever
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09:09:16  <planetmaker> lordaro, given that I cannot reach the website of one of the major European internet hubs, amx, it's a major hub
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09:09:26  <planetmaker> *router
09:09:59  <planetmaker> *ams-ix
09:10:05  <planetmaker> whatever ;-)
09:10:19  <lordaro> planetmaker: so we can guess that someone else has noticed?
09:10:28  <planetmaker> rest assured
09:10:42  <planetmaker> there'll have rung quite some alarm bells, I guess
09:11:02  <Rubidium> <- yeah, they noticed
09:11:27  <planetmaker> maybe. maybe not ;-) Oh... reachable
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09:11:32  <lordaro> i can imagine lots of people running around panicking already :-D
09:11:55  <planetmaker> nope
09:12:02  <Rubidium> lordaro: I'd say one or two, the rest know it's not in their part of the universe so they can't really do something
09:12:15  <planetmaker> that'd be the totally wrong reaction and they're professional trained to solve this
09:12:46  <Rubidium> and calling those poor lads that need to fix it is very counterproductive
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09:12:55  <planetmaker> :-)
09:14:30  <lordaro> i suspect it's something to do with this:
09:15:43  <Rubidium> that, together with 554 makes some sense. Evoswitch starting to do stupid and taking down some other routers
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09:17:36  <Rubidium> looking at when DorpsGek went missing, the timeline makes sense as well
09:18:10  <Rubidium> nice to see that the IPv6 network seems quite separated from the IPv4 network, so it doesn't take down everything
09:18:25  <planetmaker> yup :-)
09:18:38  <Rubidium> now we "only" need ISPs to dish out proper IPv6 addresses to their users and we can all benefit from redundant internet
09:18:43  <planetmaker> Hm... my institute should convert to ipv6 ;-)
09:20:52  <SpComb> "both core routers are dropping BGP sessions"
09:20:55  <SpComb> *sounds of doom*
09:21:17  <planetmaker> nevertheless it's interesting that the most traffic usually is experienced at 22h :-)
09:21:36  <planetmaker> though I guess that's the time Americas also start to create some
09:22:11  <lordaro> everyone should get IPv6, but its the same reason nobody in britain is getting fibre broadband - a combination of nobody can be bothered, and it's too expensive
09:23:02  <lordaro> oh, and the reason i came onto irc in the first place: is TrueBrain here? his name's on the list...
09:23:18  <planetmaker> the 'only' expensive thing about ipv6 really is to actually install it
09:23:49  <planetmaker> lordaro, you certainly don't befriend him, if you start with meta-questions ;-)
09:23:51  <Rubidium> actually... it is to replace old hardware/firmware and the management tools
09:25:16  <Rubidium> lordaro: if his name is on the list he's likely in here
09:25:24  <Rubidium> he might, for some reason, not answer directly
09:26:00  <Rubidium> but waiting for him to reply that he is here adds a considerable amount of "lag"
09:26:18  <planetmaker> :-)
09:26:51  <lordaro> ok then....
09:26:51  <lordaro> TrueBrain: could you be so kind as to go here:  and answer the questions regarding the AI Tournament...
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09:27:38  <planetmaker> that might actually work :-)
09:27:53  <dihedral> probably yes :-P
09:29:28  <lordaro> :)
09:34:12  <lordaro> nobodies said anything: who likes my AI?
09:35:24  <planetmaker> an AI developer's life is hard. Feedback is scarce...
09:35:28  * Rubidium "plays" with 2 AIs exclusively
09:35:34  <planetmaker> last time I tested it it worked for me afair
09:35:36  <Rubidium> "dummy" and "regression"
09:35:40  <planetmaker> :-D
09:36:09  <planetmaker> openttd is reachable again :-)
09:36:40  <Rubidium> planetmaker: only now again? It's been for 25 minutes over IPv4 for me
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09:40:55  <Eddi|zuHause> around the time DorpsGek came back, i presume ;)
09:41:53  <Ammler> he, you should switch to ipv6 then ;-)
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09:47:08  <lordaro> still nothing from TrueBrain...unless i missed it when i closed the chat window accidently..:)
09:47:24  <planetmaker> de-cix and ams-ix seem to have nearly the same traffic through-put
09:47:44  <planetmaker> lordaro, have patience and allow for at least 24h response time
09:48:14  <planetmaker> anything else is... unrealistic
09:48:17  <lordaro> lol, thought as much
09:48:35  <planetmaker> being on IRC doesn't mean someone is online
09:49:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen him say anything recently...
09:49:02  <planetmaker> and if online it doesn't mean in front of the keyboard
09:49:21  <planetmaker> and if in front of the keyboard it doesn't mean to have time for past-time activities
09:49:22  <Eddi|zuHause> he didn't even complain anymore about Pi-Gesundheit stealing his prefix...
09:49:36  <planetmaker> yep, true
09:49:37  <planetmaker> :-P
09:49:45  <lordaro> i know, that's why i asked whether he was there when i asked to start with......
09:49:47  <lordaro> :p
09:50:17  <planetmaker> lordaro, how shall we know?
09:52:11  <lordaro> he would say: "yes i am here" or something similar...
09:52:33  <planetmaker> I would not
09:52:50  <Terkhen> I would get annoyed from being highlighted without reason :P
09:52:52  <planetmaker> I would silently wait for someone to ask a real question ;-)
09:52:58  <planetmaker> Terkhen, exactly :-)
09:54:00  <lordaro> again, which is what i did...
09:54:00  <lordaro> so what he's basically done is  gone to sleep/gone out and left his computer on...
09:54:19  <planetmaker> as such, lordaro, I'd answer your request to answer in the forum topic, either here, when I'm online or later in the forums when not. But not questions concerning my online status
09:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause> how should we know?
09:55:05  <planetmaker> maybe he's wind-surfing the ijselmeer (How do I spell it?)
09:55:34  <lordaro> whatever, i going now anyway. i will return in 24 hours to see whether he's stopped wind surfing ;)
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09:55:45  <planetmaker> lol
09:56:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i think he's more the climbing than surfing guy ;)
09:58:32  <planetmaker> true :-)
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10:24:20  <VVG> g'day
10:26:44  <TrueBrain> +1 for impatient people
10:26:56  <TrueBrain> +2 for people who asks you to read something and answer something, where you can't fnd a question
10:27:05  <TrueBrain> +3 for people who ask you specific something, while they could have asked any other ..
10:27:08  <TrueBrain> I am lost ...
10:27:12  * TrueBrain goes back in his cave
10:29:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i feel with you ;)
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10:36:27  <StuffR> hey together! Does someone compile with mingw and mysys? Where i must place the zlib.h that libpng can find it?
10:37:31  <dihedral> see ./configure --help, there might be a --with-zlib=DIR ;-)
10:38:01  <dihedral> else see CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS
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10:43:13  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20633 /trunk/docs/ (landscape.html landscape_externals.html landscape_grid.html): -Cleanup: and clarify some bits in the landscape documentation and make them pass the validator again.
10:43:42  <VVG> 20617: trying to play Alpine reloaded scenario from bananaes gives assert "Assertion failed at line 37 of ..\src\date.cpp: fract < DAY_TICKS"
10:44:30  <StuffR> the problem is that make throws an error not ./configure
10:44:31  <StuffR> png.h:397:18: fatal error: zlib.h: No such file or directory
10:44:53  <StuffR> ./configure runs without errors
10:50:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20634 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Fix (r20592): gracefully do the date_fract format conversion when an older OpenTTD savegame which loaded an ancient savegame still has the old date_fract "format".
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10:54:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that must be a bitch fiddling with an incorrect savegame conversion ;)
10:54:48  <dihedral> :-D
10:55:05  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: more like a total lack of conversion
10:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: well "identity" is also a conversion ;)
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11:35:15  <lordaro> curious. no one has said anything for the last 20 minutes=-O
11:35:24  <Noldo> oh no!
11:35:52  <lordaro> oh sorry, were you trying to get to 30?
11:37:13  <Noldo> now we'll never know :|
11:37:26  <Rubidium> nope, even bigger than 30 minutes... and you missed your reply to your previously posted question as you went offline
11:40:09  <planetmaker> :-)
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11:50:34  <heffer> Rubidium: remeber you asked me for some feedback on the new grfcodec and nforenum releases from a packager PoV? i know i'm a bit late but i ran into some issues while updateing that packages today
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11:51:25  <Rubidium> yep, I did. Is one file exists twice in the tarball one of the problems?
11:52:10  <heffer> Rubidium: no
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11:52:46  <heffer> Rubidium: it's the makefile stripping the binaries automatically (as imo they should be stripping them optionally) and the make install command installing docs somewhere
11:53:45  <heffer> Rubidium: for nforenum here is what i did in the spec to prevent this:;a=blob;f=nforenum.spec;h=693eea73f0e823a0ab4391fe863ee87a1618714b;hb=HEAD
11:54:07  <heffer> Rubidium: woops, wrong link
11:54:35  <Rubidium> yay for distros having different wishes; for Debian/Ubuntu they "want" the docs installation
11:54:44  <heffer> Rubidium:;a=blob;f=nforenum.spec;h=9e512bff67c04dac17a250b7697ef73288f67b72;hb=refs/heads/master
11:54:57  <Eddi|zuHause> "future drivers licenses are only valid for 15 years, currently existing licenses must be renewed until 2033. Repeating the test is not planned."
11:54:57  <heffer> especially see the %build and %install section
11:55:02  <Rubidium> though you can configure it so it'll install it to say the objs/ dir
11:55:41  <heffer> Rubidium: for RPM based distros the doc files get installed if you list them in the %doc section in %files
11:56:08  <heffer> Rubidium: the reason being that you can install rpm files without additional docs to save disk space
11:56:12  <Rubidium> but you can override the docs installation directory
11:56:46  <Rubidium> so let it "happily" install in the objs directory
11:56:59  <heffer> Rubidium: yes i could be doing that
11:57:37  <planetmaker> :-) There's no way to set a default path which pleases everyone
11:58:07  <Eddi|zuHause> "The first unified drivers license in germany was introduced in 1909, a central register for driving violations in 1910"
11:58:10  <heffer> planetmaker: yea, you're right. that's the joy of having different distros :D
11:58:20  <planetmaker> yep :-)
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11:59:19  <planetmaker> while we're at it: if you have special wishes for the base sets: tell me ;-)
11:59:38  <Rubidium> obviously configurable data and docs directories :)
11:59:40  <planetmaker> though solutions for nforenum / grfcodec / base sets might look somewhat similar
11:59:45  <planetmaker> yeah... :-)
12:00:03  <planetmaker> I guess that's already mathijs' wish :-)
12:00:50  <SteelSide> Hi, I just downloaded openttd and started building rails. I read the more in-depth guide for rail building, including where to put depots, and it was suggested they be put before loading or after dropping of cargo for the train, cause the income would depend on how long time it took before goods were delivered. At the same time you get more revenue for the logner distance = longer time, thus, isn't it a bit backwards, and it's better to load the train f
12:01:00  * SteelSide notices the wall-of-text and hides in the corner
12:01:01  <Rubidium> heffer: you can put the DESTDIR into Makefile.local as well
12:01:37  <Eddi|zuHause> SteelSide: your message was incomplete
12:01:57  <Eddi|zuHause> SteelSide: "it's better to load the train f" ...?
12:02:10  <heffer> Rubidium: so i guess the way i do things (by using the Makefile.local) is definitely fine for me. just so you know what Fedora uses for defaults :D
12:02:39  <SteelSide> At the same time you get more revenue for  the logner distance = longer time, thus, isn't it a bit  backwards, and it's better to load the train full, take time  in the depo, and then deliver?
12:02:52  <heffer> Rubidium: having the DESTDIR in the specfile is standard procedure for Fedora packages, so I think I'll just leave it there.
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12:07:23  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone ever thought about getting signals on waypoints?
12:07:33  <Rubidium> heffer: actually I think it's better to install the docs to objs and use the installed docs
12:07:49  <Hirundo> SteelSide: Income indeed depends on time taken, but in a negative way
12:07:59  <Hirundo> So you'd want to transport as far as possible in the least possible time
12:08:02  <Rubidium> heffer: that'll trim some unneeded documentation for users
12:08:04  <SteelSide> Hirundo, aha. so distance = ++ income, but time = income--
12:08:21  <heffer> Rubidium: okay. i think i'll try that then
12:08:21  <SteelSide> And I who cheaped out on the trains to make it take longer time ._.
12:09:42  <SteelSide> how often should trains be serviced aprox? Is it often enough to put it to service between every cargo run?
12:10:58  <planetmaker> SteelSide, never. But I play without breakdowns ;-)
12:11:18  <SteelSide> pff :p
12:12:39  <planetmaker> otherwise: it's a good idea to service it at least once per round-trip
12:12:47  <planetmaker> but it depends upon how reliable your engine is
12:13:02  <SteelSide> riaght..
12:13:17  <SteelSide> buses then?
12:13:24  <Yexo> and on the length of the route, if the train has to travel 1000 tiles I'd let it service more than once (especially for slow trains)
12:13:50  <Yexo> why not just use the default servicing interval?
12:14:13  <SteelSide> there's a default?
12:14:41  <Yexo> if you don't give them any "goto depot" orders they'll service automatically when they need to
12:14:43  * Rubidium sees a clearing in the 80mm a day rain and takes that to do some shopping
12:14:46  <Yexo> I think every 150 days for trains
12:14:58  <Ammler> heffer: shouldn't %doc path/to/installed/doc do the same as %doc build/docs/whatever
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12:16:11  <SteelSide> oh ok Yexo, where can I see the interval?
12:16:26  <Yexo> bottom of the vehicle details window
12:16:45  <Yexo> the default is in advanced settings->vehicles->servicing
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12:17:34  <SteelSide> oke thanks
12:18:21  * Eddi|zuHause feels like he is on everyone's ignore list
12:18:56  * dihedral waves hello to Eddi|zuHause
12:19:49  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: is here?
12:19:51  <heffer> Ammler: yes it would
12:19:58  <heffer> so that is what i'll be doing then
12:22:06  <SteelSide> wooooo! Signals for the aboslute beginners
12:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause> SteelSide: suggestion: always use path signals
12:23:25  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is there a cookbook for adding Yet Another Advanced Setting?
12:23:47  <SteelSide> Eddi|zuHause, hmm? any particular reason?
12:24:35  * planetmaker hugs Eddi|zuHause in a completely un-ignoring way
12:24:38  <Eddi|zuHause> SteelSide: they are doing The Right Thing (tm) in 98% of the situations you'll come across as a beginner
12:24:55  <Ammler> heffer: I meant, you can run %doc also for installed docs, not just build docs: %doc %{_docdir}/readme.txt
12:25:20  <Ammler> or am I wrong? :-)
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12:26:05  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: add it to settings_type.h, table/settings.h and if you want it to show up in the gui also to settings_gui.cpp
12:26:06  <heffer> Ammler: %doc takes the file and installs it to /usr/share/doc/foo-1.0/
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12:26:47  <heffer> so if you do %doc /usr/share/doc/nforenum/foo.txt it'll copy that file to /usr/share/doc/nforenum-4.0.0/foo.txt
12:27:11  <heffer> and you'd still have the error that /usr/share/doc/nforenum/foo.txt is not in %files
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12:33:49  <SteelSide> Eddi|zuHause, ok. and with them I only need to space them real sparse right? cause they cover until next signal? (whereas block signals only cover 1 block ahead?)
12:34:19  <Eddi|zuHause> SteelSide: what? i think you misunderstood it...
12:35:15  <SteelSide> :(
12:35:52  <SteelSide> From my understanding a path signal shows the green/red light for the next stretch of rail, ending only at the next signal, station or depot
12:36:01  <SteelSide> while block signals only cover 1 tile ahead?
12:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> no
12:36:15  <Yexo> no, a block signal is green only if there is no train in the next block
12:36:26  <SteelSide> next block... =? game tile?
12:36:27  <Yexo> a block is all connected rails and ends at any signal
12:36:29  <SteelSide> oh
12:36:55  <Yexo> a path signal is red by default and will only turn green when there is a train in front and only when that train can reserve a route to the next signal
12:37:06  <Yexo> with path signals you can have multiple trains in one block if their paths don't conflict
12:37:35  <SteelSide> ooh sweet
12:37:40  <SteelSide> so why would one want to place block signals?
12:38:06  <Yexo> legacy, and because some smart constructs can only be build with presignals
12:38:25  <Yexo> <Eddi|zuHause> SteelSide: they are doing The Right Thing (tm) in 98% of the situations you'll come across as a beginner <- those are the 2% Eddi|zuHause talked about
12:45:35  <SteelSide> can you use path signals for multi-bay stations? or do you need pre-signals for that?
12:49:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, no.
12:56:05  <Rubidium> heffer: have you found the INSTALL_DOCS_DIR setting? You can do make install DESTDIR=/foo/bar/path INSTALL_DOCS_DIR=objs/docs and then everything of importance for %doc is in objs/docs
12:57:55  <heffer> Rubidium: yes i think I'll use that when i next update the package
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13:03:34  <SteelSide> when building something, does the area covered have inpact on business? Say there's a coal mine covering 3x3 squares, and I cover one row of 3. Is this equally profiteable as covering the whole 3x3 grid?
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13:05:45  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this is the first time i have seen a plane crash on the title screen...
13:06:15  <Belugas> hey ho hello
13:08:19  <planetmaker> hey Belugas
13:08:28  <planetmaker> SteelSide, for industries it doesn't matter
13:08:48  <planetmaker> It of course matters within towns as each house contributes to the acceptance and delivery separately
13:08:59  <SteelSide> yeah ok, but industries don't, great :D
13:09:16  <SteelSide> thanks
13:09:25  <planetmaker> as long as your station says it accepts it's fine
13:09:45  <planetmaker> not every tile of an industry accepts everything; so it might be insufficient to cover just one tile
13:09:58  <planetmaker> but you'll be told what is accepted when you build the station
13:10:14  <SteelSide> yeah ok
13:21:22  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- thoughts? errors?
13:22:55  <Yexo> I recognize that patch :p
13:23:01  <Eddi|zuHause> [contains savegame bump]
13:23:09  <Yexo> uint size_x = max_x + 2 + 2 *; <- shouldn't that be
13:23:13  <planetmaker> Is it needed?
13:23:16  <Yexo> uint size_x = max_x + 3 +;
13:23:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: no, i believe this is correct
13:23:33  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause wants a bigger platform for industries?
13:23:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, a smaller one
13:23:44  <planetmaker> It's basically an implementation of what newgrf can do
13:23:44  <Rubidium> in any case, it won't apply
13:23:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: how?
13:23:57  <planetmaker> savegame version :-P
13:24:07  <Rubidium> ^
13:24:22  <Rubidium> and the added string looks German-ish :)
13:24:24  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... then my working copy was not up to date...
13:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: damn, and i already fixed the capitalisation of "Area" ;)
13:25:05  <Rubidium> i.e. the capital for Industries and Tiles doesn't seem necessary
13:26:07  <Rubidium> hmm, would tile{P 1 "" s} work?
13:27:47  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe
13:28:53  <Eddi|zuHause> updated patch, still compiling:
13:30:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: imho english could really use some of the capitalisation rules ;)
13:30:10  <SteelSide> any way to show latest headlines? (or whatever tha annoying whitebox at the bottom is called)
13:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause> SteelSide: there's a newspaper icon in the toolbar. click and hold that
13:31:40  <SteelSide> right.. I feel stupid, I just found it myself
13:31:49  <SteelSide> I looked until I saw the audio button and was like "k.. nothing more now"
13:32:17  <planetmaker> SteelSide, feel free to browse the
13:36:13  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause wants a bigger platform for industries? <-- i was always annoyed about the 1 extra tile of flat land around the industry, and have a patch for ages that reduced that additional area to 0. i just thought i could make this generic as well...
13:36:15  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes, I guess it could
13:36:55  <planetmaker> make it a non-gui option ;-)
13:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: why?
13:38:06  <Eddi|zuHause> 1 tile isn't enough to put a decent station anyway, so people might want to increase it...
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13:38:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't see how it could cause some serious damage when newbies set it the wrong way...
13:40:24  <planetmaker> There's an inflation of settings :-)
13:40:41  <planetmaker> I guess... GUI is fine. It just needs setting pre-sets
13:41:28  <planetmaker> It really becomes an increasingly tedious task to create a game with just the right [TM] settings
13:41:39  <roboboy> hello momentarily
13:45:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i have not seen momentarily
13:46:05  <Hirundo> will assert(expr) have an effect in release builds (assuming expr has relevant side-effects) ?
13:47:38  <Rubidium> Hirundo: in "default" release builds, i.e. normal release in MSVC and normal compiles with gcc, the assert remains, i.e. it has side effects
13:48:26  <Rubidium> in stable release builds, e.g. release of 1.0.3, assertions are disabled which means the expression has NO side effect; it's not in the binary
13:49:50  <Hirundo> OK, thanks
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14:08:08  <SteelSide> what the hell.. train broke down 3 days after service
14:09:27  <ccfreak2k> Got your warranty card>
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14:20:39  <Bixoo> hello
14:21:07  <Terkhen> hi Bixoo
14:21:23  <Bixoo> Terkhen: i'm viewing OPEN TTD
14:21:47  <Bixoo> i was an old player of original Transport Tycoon
14:22:26  <planetmaker> *OpenTTD without space :-)
14:22:41  <planetmaker> also hello Bixoo
14:22:47  <Bixoo> Terkhen: i'm viewing how make some patches on it with newGFX etc
14:23:26  <Bixoo> planetmaker: hi man...i'm here in a bored hour after lunch meat with rice and Coke *BURP*
14:23:29  <planetmaker> writing a newgrf or writing a patch which extends newgrf specs?
14:23:44  <Bixoo> no no
14:23:47  <Bixoo> what you say
14:24:00  <Bixoo> download patches from online repository only hehehhe
14:24:10  <planetmaker> ?
14:24:32  <planetmaker> the online content has a number of add-ons.
14:24:35  <Bixoo> planetmaker: downloading NewGRF content
14:24:36  <planetmaker> I'd not call them patches
14:24:51  <planetmaker> ok. You want to write a NewGRF? :-) Good.
14:25:18  <Bixoo> in what development IDE was make the game?
14:25:31  <Bixoo> i meant...what compiler for windows version?
14:25:36  <planetmaker> NewGRF are... binary coded
14:25:55  <planetmaker> You don't need to compile OpenTTD, if you only want to write a newgrf
14:26:12  <Bixoo> the music is MIDI ?
14:26:21  <planetmaker> you need no compiler. You 'just' need a text editor, a graphics programme possibly, ...
14:26:30  <planetmaker> or a midi programme for music, yes :-)
14:26:49  <planetmaker> <-- source repo for the music set
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14:27:03  <Bixoo> i know how implement BASS Library in C++ builder ....BASS is a mp3 and positional sound library
14:27:35  <Bixoo> positional = sound 3d
14:28:10  <Bixoo> i don't know much more ahead add the DLL to exe, and load and play MP3 files from harddisk
14:28:29  <Progman> what do you want to do?
14:28:45  <Bixoo> but is great for have Mp3 player builded in replacement of MIDI music
14:29:27  <Bixoo> in case that developers don't have idea about BASS is
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14:30:26  <Bixoo> it's a 600 kb DLL that add mp3 and sound support for programmers
14:30:58  <Bixoo> something like LAME.dll
14:31:09  <Bixoo> but lame is an encoder
14:31:17  <Progman> what about it?
14:31:21  <dihedral> Bixoo, and what about all the other supported operating system?
14:31:32  <dihedral> want to use a separate lib for all of them?
14:31:41  <Bixoo> for convert audio to mp3 compressed standard and streaming encoding
14:31:44  <ccfreak2k> If MP3 decoding was desired, they'd probably just use ffmpeg.
14:31:57  <dihedral> IF :-)
14:32:06  <Bixoo> ok ok
14:32:10  <peter1138> using a closed-source library? no
14:32:13  <Bixoo> i'm not force nobody
14:32:29  <Bixoo> i just talking from my "house coding" experience
14:32:30  <ccfreak2k> What we REALLY need is a bigger patch set for MIDI.
14:32:31  <dihedral> hehe - you could not even if you wanted to
14:33:30  <Bixoo> i only using windows XP
14:33:37  <Rubidium> even then MP3s are an order if not two orders of magnitude bigger than MIDI
14:33:45  <Bixoo> linux leaved for true gurús
14:34:18  <Eddi|zuHause> what about The Unsupported OS then?
14:34:28  <Bixoo> forget them
14:34:30  <Bixoo> xDD
14:34:32  <Bixoo> hahaha
14:34:38  <Eddi|zuHause> or stuff like the Wii or NDS versions?
14:34:51  <Bixoo> do you know spanish?
14:34:58  <peter1138> never mind that nobody wants mp3 music support
14:35:03  <Eddi|zuHause> how is that relevant?
14:35:37  <dihedral> sonds to me like someone is asking for some use of the /ignore command :-P
14:35:43  <Bixoo> in my land...there's a city cite that talks something like "El que mucho abarca, poco aprieta" try translate to english
14:36:29  <Bixoo> i'm more on the side, of keed independant developers groups for each OS
14:36:32  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like "dogs that bark, don't bite" ;)
14:36:49  <Bixoo> means
14:37:12  * dihedral barks
14:37:15  <dihedral> :-P
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14:37:35  <Bixoo> that extrapolation and try get a lot with much diversity of goals, rest from quality at the global quality or enfforts
14:37:35  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, or dogs that bark would bite if they had OP? :-P
14:38:07  <Bixoo> something like that
14:38:19  <dihedral> Bixoo, if you want someone to seriously listen to what you want to say, don't talk so much rubbish ;-)
14:38:30  <Bixoo> what's rubbish?
14:38:46  <peter1138> we have positional audio :D
14:38:53  <peter1138> well, panned audio, anyway
14:38:54  <dihedral> started with "* Bixoo (Bixoo_ZzZz@ has joined #openttd"
14:39:20  <Bixoo> peter1138: i'm a alone coder and translator of docs and tutorials
14:40:24  <dihedral> \o/
14:40:49  <Bixoo> peter1138: so far from my intention that learn you how make your job
14:41:22  <Bixoo> just talking...but seems that including something like TALK is a CRIME here
14:41:59  <Bixoo> you can laught and joke
14:42:21  <Noldo> *ha ha ha*
14:42:22  <peter1138> i did write an ambisonics patch
14:42:25  <peter1138> that is pretty silly
14:42:35  <SteelSide> Can you do anything with the rocks on the map?
14:42:47  <peter1138> yes
14:42:47  <Bixoo> but we make a great development job making TDx Library and we're working in TDx9 since 5 years....
14:43:02  <Noldo> SteelSide: remove them
14:43:21  <SteelSide> k so they aren't involved in iron ore production in any way?
14:43:22  <Bixoo> and we're only 2 developers on board
14:43:26  <peter1138> nope
14:43:36  <peter1138>
14:43:39  <peter1138> good advert :D
14:43:47  <Timmaexx> TDx9 & TDx Library what's that?
14:44:45  <Bixoo> it's specified on pages if the customer was understanding what read
14:44:59  <Bixoo> TDx9 is on development
14:45:49  <Bixoo> you buy, but you only get the library when it's finnished and still is 60% developed
14:46:12  <Bixoo> but show me something coded with TDx 1.80
14:46:15  <Bixoo> nothing
14:46:36  <Bixoo> because DirectX simply is unknown
14:46:55  <Bixoo> the library is there
14:46:58  <Bixoo> sure
14:47:07  <Timmaexx> DirectX is unknown?
14:47:15  <Rubidium> OpenTTD uses (parts of) DirectX
14:47:26  <Timmaexx> I know
14:47:32  <Bixoo> unknown from a lot of people that's don't catch the concepts
14:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: btw. i don't know what's needed for {P "" s} to work, but it doesn't work like this. possibly because it's a {STRING1}, not a {NUM} or something
14:48:06  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: have you tried {P 1 "" s}?
14:51:12  <SteelSide> interresting that 700 people waiting on 1 bus terminal is considered good service o.o
14:51:23  <Yexo> Bixoo: if you're indeed talking about the library that is offered on I just have one word for it: hilarious
14:51:49  <peter1138> modern webdesign, eh?
14:52:00  <Yexo> yep
14:52:07  <Yexo> and they can't even decide on their own pricing level
14:52:15  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I meant: try 'tile{P 0:1 "" s}'
14:52:35  <Yexo> "it's only ", "we have only 1 subscription in the last year for ", "donate  now", "register for 0"
14:52:37  <Eddi|zuHause> err... something broke horribly: "/home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/trunk/src/lang/afrikaans.txt:1114: FATAL: no command for this argidx 1"
14:52:43  <Eddi|zuHause> repeat for every language
14:53:21  <Bixoo> Yexo: yeah...Darren don't earn nothing and gets crazy with all the subject....
14:53:23  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, 1 was wrong, you need 0:1 :)
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14:53:35  <planetmaker> outch...
14:53:52  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... setting this thing to 15 didn't generate any industries on the map...
14:54:32  <Bixoo> anyway...openTTD seems interesting....
14:55:36  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the limit should be lower
14:55:45  <planetmaker> We're all here only because we want to share our bordom with openttd...
14:55:57  <Yexo> I think 3 or 4 should be the limit
14:56:07  <Yexo> anything more than that will give very strange results
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14:56:49  <planetmaker> thank you
14:58:49  <roboboy> gnight
14:59:04  <roboboy> or gnightish
14:59:15  <roboboy> incase I can't get to sleep
15:01:24  <Belugas> poor Bixoo
15:01:40  <Belugas> another maybe frustated good will soul
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15:02:33  <Belugas> ilike the concept "I have an idea!  It must be a good one.  They should embrase it with pure joy"
15:03:14  <Eddi|zuHause>,%201.%20Jan%201924_2.png <-- with 15 you get some crazy clusters on large maps....
15:03:20  <Rubidium> more like... I have bought something expensive and want to use it for everything I can get my hands oon
15:05:18  <Timmaexx> I had such cluster with Watertowers in last nightly
15:07:19  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... since when does changing a string in english.txt not trigger a full recompile anymore?
15:07:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: with 0:1 it seems to work
15:07:46  <Rubidium> since a while
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15:10:39  <Eddi|zuHause> setting to 4 seems to work quite well, i'll take that as limit...
15:12:42  <Eddi|zuHause> updated string and maximum:
15:13:51  <peter1138> i liked 15
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15:18:52  <Belugas> cool :) an industrial park!
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15:23:48  <planetmaker> Timmaexx: that's moderately easy, if you play long enough
15:23:53  <planetmaker> They don't close down. Ever
15:23:59  <planetmaker> Unless you newgrf-mod them
15:24:29  <Timmaexx> ?
15:24:51  <planetmaker> [17:05]	<Timmaexx>	I had such cluster with Watertowers in last nightly
15:25:06  <Timmaexx> aah okay
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15:34:01  <peter1138>
15:34:05  <peter1138> will openttd run better with this?
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15:40:44  <OwenS> peter1138: Hang on... How tall is that graphics card?
15:40:49  <OwenS> It looks like it takes up three slots!
15:42:23  <peter1138> i dunno, but it has enough extra power connectors
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15:42:54  <bryjen> and that would still leave the fan blowing hot air on and melting the card in the 4th slot ;)
15:46:44  <planetmaker> that at least makes sure that the air can circulate and the card itself is not overheating ;-)
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15:59:56  <lordaro> if you've just applied a patch that failed, what's the best way to revert to the original svn version?
16:00:15  <glx_> svn revert -R .
16:00:17  <Rubidium> svn revert?
16:00:18  <planetmaker> svn revert -R
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16:01:34  <Belugas> or using Tortoise, check all files withouth green icon and revert those
16:01:51  <Belugas> or using Tortoise, right click on folder and...
16:01:53  <Belugas> forgot
16:02:38  <lordaro> thanks, i thought it was something to do with revert, just could be bothered to figure the arguements :)
16:04:23  <lordaro> oh and for the record it was: svn revert -R <working-directory> :p
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16:11:27  <planetmaker> [18:02]	<lordaro>	thanks, i thought it was something to do with revert, just could be bothered to figure the arguements :) <-- oh, that motivates to answer future questions
16:12:22  <lordaro> i did try svn revert <working-directory> , just didn't know about the -R
16:12:28  <lordaro> i was close
16:12:30  <lordaro> :)
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16:13:38  <Eddi|zuHause> <lordaro> oh and for the record it was: svn revert -R <working-directory> <-- lordaro: glx said that
16:14:01  <Eddi|zuHause> (obviously, "." is the current working directory)
16:14:51  <lordaro> i knew that... i saw the '.' and fully understood what it meant....honest....8-)
16:39:40  <SteelSide> friggin rails ._.
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16:43:44  <Eddi|zuHause> how does one keep a wet cat from going onto the bed?
16:44:14  <Rubidium> put it in the tumble dryer at 90 degrees C
16:44:59  <Eddi|zuHause> we don't have such a device... drying is done "old school" in our house
16:45:07  <planetmaker> that'll help, too
16:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause> but the cat won't stick to the line...
16:45:57  <Rubidium> a large electric fly frier on your bed with a nice current between the "wires"
16:46:13  <Rubidium> tie-wrap the cat to the door handle
16:46:16  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that's what we have "WÀscheklammern" for
16:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: they are not big enough
16:48:15  <planetmaker> :-)
16:49:10  <Belugas> release some real mouses in the other rooms of the house.  that will keep the cat away from the bed...
16:52:06  <Fast2> Don't forget to put a few on the bed
16:52:13  <Fast2> ;)
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17:45:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20635 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/chuvash.txt:
17:45:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: chuvash - 18 changes by mefisteron
17:47:09  <dihedral> and which of those 2 unknown words is the language?
17:50:34  <Rubidium> what do you think?
17:50:40  <dihedral> ^^
17:52:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i only know mephistopheles
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17:57:21  <peter1138> hrm
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18:30:34  <lordaro> we made half an hour without talking people! :)=-O
18:31:31  <Xaroth> and you talked..
18:32:29  <Terkhen> silence is golden, specially when you have nothing to say
18:32:51  <lordaro> it was a goal earlier...
18:35:30  <dihedral> we do that more often than once ;-)
18:37:04  <Rubidium> Pi-gesundheit #2?
18:39:27  <Eddi|zuHause> can't be. he already has a forum account
18:39:47  <Alberth> and a bug tracker account :)
18:39:48  <Rubidium> so has Pi-gesundheit #1 :(
18:40:47  <dihedral> you are the one who could check ip's ^^
18:43:40  <Rubidium> dihedral: what use would that be? I don't want to prove there's one, I state there're two!
18:44:16  <dihedral> ah - now i get it :-P
18:44:24  <dihedral> wow - that then is quite harsh ^^
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18:51:39  <dihedral> ?
18:57:37  <Alberth> sometimes one has to test the auto-reconnect
19:03:27  <dihedral> riiight
19:06:41  <SteelSide> I get "autorenew failed on road vehicle X (money limit)", :| what am I doing wrong?
19:07:05  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have enough money. you can set the money limit in advanced settings
19:07:39  <SteelSide> ah
19:07:47  <SteelSide> well how do I get it to start replacing vehicles for the new type?
19:07:55  <SteelSide> I set it up in the vehicle list to do that
19:08:01  <SteelSide> but no buses get replaced :|
19:08:15  <Eddi|zuHause> they will when they next visit the depot
19:09:45  <SteelSide> they have all visited the depo a few times round
19:10:18  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you set autoreplace on a different group...
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19:11:15  <Yexo> SteelSide: how much money does your company have?
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19:12:10  <SteelSide> Yexo, enough to start replacing the trucks I'd imagine :o got 7, cost is 8k, and I had 80k
19:12:30  <dihedral> check your settings mr.
19:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause> SteelSide: but when the money limit is like 100k?
19:12:38  <dihedral> there is an autoreplace minimum
19:12:59  <SteelSide> so autorenew is for autoreplace too?
19:13:13  <dihedral> .....
19:13:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the money limit is for both
19:14:32  <SteelSide> great :p
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19:26:41  <Alberth> borrow to the max limit, renew, then pay back
19:28:27  <dihedral> having to increase loan by the time you get to a renew... something went wrong ^^
19:30:02  <Alberth> obviously, you should be swimming in money by then,    but as a last resort... :)
19:32:52  <Eddi|zuHause> but that only proves the game mechanics are broken
19:33:43  <Alberth> did you need to proof that? :p
19:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm a maths-affine guy, i like proofs ;)
19:37:01  <SteelSide> well buses fail :< that's my excuse
19:37:15  <Rubidium> oh, in that case... please fix the game mechanics and *proof* it is not broken anymore
19:37:18  * SteelSide fails in general too with everything regarding this transport business
19:39:48  <Alberth> glad to see a person trying to win with trucks, most of us chicken out and use trains or aircraft :)
19:40:36  <SteelSide> hmm don't know if I actually can win - not playing vs anyone :E there's any set goal by the game then?
19:40:51  <SteelSide> and yes I'm starting to feel like buses are a really bad idea
19:41:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: "fixing" the game mechanics so you don't drown in money needs to address two things: a) a "macromanagement" approach for the later stages, where you only give the locations of the stations, and maybe some design decisions, and an AI builds the routes for you, so your growth is not limited by your physical extreme-clicking-ability and b) a non-linear "inefficiency"/"management" cost so your expansion speed is limited by more than
19:41:58  <Eddi|zuHause> just the money you earn
19:42:08  <Alberth> well, there are statistics somewhere that you can try to beat, but otherwise, no, you set your own goal
19:42:47  <SteelSide> K i just won cause I repaid teh loan!
19:43:37  <Alberth> and that even holds for multi-player games, although you generally agree on a goal with all players :D
19:44:07  <Eddi|zuHause> SteelSide: you could try to get a 1000 company rating [the list of things to do for that is in the graphs menu]
19:44:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but especially with road vehicles that is extremely difficult
19:47:56  <SteelSide> you can do a waterway to railway mix right?
19:48:04  <SteelSide> just put them inside the cover area of eachother?
19:48:46  <SteelSide> yeap wiki says so
19:51:32  <dihedral> you should read more of that ^^
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20:44:08  <dihedral> openttd running with -D
20:44:13  <dihedral> Writing crash screenshot...
20:44:19  <dihedral> Writing crash screenshot failed.
20:44:21  <dihedral> hehe
20:46:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20636 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: Move MarkTileDirtyByTile() and DeleteAnimatedTile() into MakeWaterKeepingClass().
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21:01:14  <dihedral> night
21:05:06  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: well, if you override the blitter, making screenshots would work
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21:13:11  <Terkhen> good ngiht
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21:25:32  <SteelSide> dihedral, yeah but It's so much text and I wanna play D:!
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22:09:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20637 /trunk/projects/ (6 files): -Change: [Win32] Don't build the DirectMusic driver for x64 as it won't work anyway.
22:12:26  <Vitus> Evening. I'm just wondering, I got an assertion error with the NewObjects (win32) binary. Am I too late or should I post the error?
22:12:56  <Eddi|zuHause> you can post errors at any time
22:13:07  <Vitus> Alright, the assertion error is:
22:13:09  <Vitus> Assertion failed at line 139 of ..\src\water_cmd.cpp: IsTileType(tile, MP_WATER) || (IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) && (IsBuoy(tile) || IsDock(tile) || IsOilRig(tile))) || IsTileType(tile, MP_INDUSTRY)
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22:14:04  <Vitus> Happens when trying to demolish object (both in scenario edior and normal game)
22:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you could also highlight a responsible dev, like Rubidium, so he will take a look if he is still awake
22:14:37  <Vitus> Oh, yes, I forgot that :)
22:14:39  <Vitus> Thank you
22:15:00  <Rubidium> did you compile the binary yourself?
22:15:09  <Vitus> Nope, I used the precompiled one
22:15:30  <Rubidium> it's fixed in a slightly later version of trunk
22:15:38  <Rubidium> but you were removing an object, right?
22:15:42  <Vitus> Yes
22:17:06  <Vitus> Is r20636 the change you were talking about?
22:17:17  <Rubidium> yep
22:17:33  <Vitus> Alright, thank you.
22:21:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20638 /trunk/ (11 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: split object.h
22:26:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20639 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Add: random bits to object tiles
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22:29:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20640 /trunk/src/ (object_cmd.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Add: support for water under objects
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22:43:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20641 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_object.h object_cmd.cpp table/object_land.h): -Codechange: remove the "require flat land" flag
22:46:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20642 /trunk/src/table/object_land.h: -Codechange: make the table in object_land easier expandable.
22:51:28  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20643 /trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r20641): != != ==
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23:34:30  <Rubidium> Vitus: there's a new binary that shouldn't trigger that assertion
23:34:57  <Vitus> Alright, thanks you very much :)
23:35:02  <Vitus> *thank
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