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00:03:05 <TruePikachu> I put a thread up on the forums 00:05:16 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D6BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:29 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:18:30 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.87.89] has quit [Quit: Yarrrr, I best be catching 40 winks, me boat be stocked with grog and we be sailin' in the morrow] 00:32:37 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8F6A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:45:58 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:46:22 <TruePikachu> Wireless adapter became unavailible for some reason... 00:46:50 <TruePikachu> Anyway, which do you use inside cities for like a metro service: HSLC or LSHC? 00:48:36 <TruePikachu> * High speed low cap or low speed high cap 00:52:43 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 00:54:04 *** trebuchet [~Trebuchet@69.51.104.87] has joined #openttd 01:01:23 <SmatZ> mmm forums are backuping :( 01:02:59 *** orudge` [~orudge@c-75-73-67-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:03:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ 01:05:42 *** orudge` [~orudge@c-75-73-67-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:06:04 *** orudge` [~orudge@c-75-73-67-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:06:07 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ 01:18:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:22:03 *** wollollo [~martin@host86-175-29-208.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:38:00 *** GecK [Geck@pro75-3-82-229-184-63.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 01:48:09 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:16:00 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:16:24 <Pikka> so! 02:16:38 <Pikka> Why isn't my action 14 working? :[ 02:16:53 <Pikka> tell me, oh holders of the crystal ball 02:29:00 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC459C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 02:30:33 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:41 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: A key, command, or action that tells the system to return to a previous state or stop a process.] 02:53:40 <Pikka> ah 02:54:00 <Pikka> it wasn't that my action 14 wasn't working so much as my grfcodec wasn't working so it wasn't updating the grf <_<; 02:55:08 <Pikka> also, many of the examples on the wiki page have one too many 00s it appears... 03:03:45 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:145e:f1ea:1fa0:646f] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:04:09 <Pikka> or maybe not 03:04:12 <Pikka> anyway, I worked it out :) 03:09:26 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd 03:10:58 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has joined #openttd 03:15:16 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [] 03:39:07 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 03:51:15 *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge`] by ChanServ 03:51:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ 03:54:58 *** lllugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c096.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 03:55:08 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 03:56:53 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd 04:02:07 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c025.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:15:21 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.15.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75101.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:32 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75162.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:04:42 *** echo465_ [~chatzilla@c-98-223-160-180.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:05:02 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:05:46 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 05:07:11 *** keoz [~keikoz@418pc.wohnheimg.uni-frankfurt.de] has joined #openttd 05:09:52 *** echo465 [~chatzilla@c-98-223-160-180.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:09:53 *** echo465_ is now known as echo465 05:21:09 *** DDR_ [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has joined #openttd 05:27:29 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:21:25 *** Yrol_Denjeah [~SomeOne@hmbg-5f7778f6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 06:24:41 <Yrol_Denjeah> Hello :o) 06:24:48 <Yrol_Denjeah> How can i slow down the game? 06:26:48 *** Amis [~Amis@catv-89-135-77-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #openttd 06:37:53 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 06:38:06 <planetmaker> moin 06:38:08 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:38:14 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 06:38:15 <planetmaker> no way to slow down the game there 06:38:20 <planetmaker> ^ Yrol_Denjeah 06:40:38 <Yrol_Denjeah> planetmaker: moinmoin, not at all? Not even if i recompile? 06:41:10 <planetmaker> if you can programme, yes. Search for the day length patch 06:41:32 <Yrol_Denjeah> oh, there is a grf aalready? 06:41:33 <planetmaker> but those savegames might not compatible anymore with normal 06:41:43 <planetmaker> that's not possible via grf 06:42:16 <Yrol_Denjeah> so the patch i hae to weave into the source, yes? 06:46:31 <Yrol_Denjeah> not then? 06:47:00 <planetmaker> there are as far as I know only source code patches around, yes 06:47:13 <planetmaker> binary patches make little sense for open source games 06:48:46 <Yrol_Denjeah> °bows deeply° my apologies oh master, i shall remove my stinking stupid self then from your sight for i am not worthy 06:49:01 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:49:09 *** Yrol_Denjeah [~SomeOne@hmbg-5f7778f6.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #openttd [] 06:55:59 <ccfreak2k> I was thinking "lower the CPU clock". 06:56:38 <planetmaker> but that doesn't help. Unless you lower it so much that it lags. which is uncomfortable for the input ;-) 06:57:22 <planetmaker> I just wonder whether I've been that condescending to warrent his last sentence... 06:57:24 <ccfreak2k> Hey, you gotta make sacrifices. 06:59:38 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:01:13 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [] 07:10:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:11:28 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:15:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D29F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:16:39 <Terkhen> good morning 07:19:34 *** DDR_ [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:21:49 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen 07:25:07 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:31:01 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:31:40 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has left #openttd [PACKET_CLIENT_QUIT] 07:44:53 *** keoz [~keikoz@418pc.wohnheimg.uni-frankfurt.de] has quit [Quit: keoz] 07:47:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:41:30 *** Zuu [Zuu@c-ccf2e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 08:44:11 *** Amis [~Amis@catv-89-135-77-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Távozom] 08:44:27 *** GecK [Geck@pro75-3-82-229-184-63.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 08:44:30 <GecK> hello 08:45:41 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:54:06 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8BA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:03:09 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:07:25 <planetmaker> moin GecK 09:07:35 <planetmaker> moin Alberth 09:07:51 <Alberth> good morning 09:16:20 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:24:25 <Zuu> Good morning planetmaker, Alberth & Geck 09:24:57 <Zuu> my bad, sorry for highlighting you. 09:25:07 <planetmaker> moin Zuu 09:27:52 <GecK> morning everybody 09:30:04 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:30:59 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:59 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 09:32:02 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 09:32:06 *** ar3kaw [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:34:49 <heffer> planetmaker: regarding my bug from yesterday: http://fpaste.org/w2ZT/ and yes, it's fixed in hg 09:35:47 <planetmaker> good to know. I guess we can then ship the current repo as 0.3.1 09:36:58 <planetmaker> you did need an option to (not) install license and changelog, too, right? 09:37:28 <heffer> right 09:37:39 <heffer> rpm installs all the docs for us 09:38:00 <heffer> i define what files in the tarball are docs and rpm will install them automatically 09:38:03 <TomyLobo> firs?` 09:38:21 <heffer> reason being: by that you are able to install pkgs without docs 09:39:19 <planetmaker> did you test current grfcodec / nforenum? I have a patch for the makefile which basically ports that behaviour 09:39:36 <planetmaker> DO_NOT_INSTALL_DOCS|LICENSE|CHANGELOG 09:39:45 <planetmaker> you can specify each separately 09:40:04 <planetmaker> controlling the installation of readme/license/changelog into DOCDIR 09:40:14 <heffer> planetmaker: not yet. i'm planning to update the complete openttd stack very soon 09:40:36 <heffer> at the moment i'm at FUDCon (which is Fedora Users and Developers Conference) in ZÃŒrich 09:40:42 <planetmaker> aye :-) 09:41:28 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: no. That doesn't need shipping with OpenTTD. Base sets 09:42:23 <planetmaker> heffer: I guess I can then present you 0.3.1 in the next days, maybe today 09:42:53 <TomyLobo> oh wait, firs is at 0.4.0 now :D 09:43:01 <heffer> planetmaker: that's great news :) i will then include that into my stack update and skip 0.3.0 09:47:44 <planetmaker> btw, heffer, it seems you didn't use a nightly grfcodec / nforenum. Older ones will give you warnings... there are new GUI sprites old versions don't yet know of 09:48:00 <planetmaker> it's not fatal and has no real impact... but you might wonder ;-) 09:48:27 <heffer> planetmaker: okay. so should i include nightly grfcodec/nforenum in my stack update then? 09:48:45 <planetmaker> yes... or lobby with Rubidium to make a release there, too :-) 09:49:02 <heffer> i was using nforenum 4.0.0 and grfcodec 1.0.0 09:49:15 <planetmaker> yes. Since then OpenTTD got new GUI sprites. 09:49:34 <planetmaker> which needs an update to nforenum to not warn about additional sprites 09:49:59 <planetmaker> which in turn OpenGFX supplies :-) 09:50:05 <heffer> okay. i'll keep that in mind :) 09:51:04 <planetmaker> might be that nforenum and grfcodec will get a joint release as one set of tools... see http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=50092 09:51:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:51:27 <Wolf01> hello 09:55:14 <heffer> openttd sdk :) 09:57:38 <planetmaker> :-) as both are not really needed for OpenTTD development it would not really be an sdk for OpenTTD. Maybe for NewGRFs. But there I still hope for the yet-not-released NML to become the new standard ;-) 09:59:04 * andythenorth considers adding an industry to process metal from forge in early games 09:59:06 <andythenorth> :P 10:00:08 <planetmaker> called blacksmith? ;-) 10:00:14 <andythenorth> maybe 10:00:33 * andythenorth considers having some forges produce goods and ENSP, and other produce building materials and FMSP 10:00:54 <planetmaker> hm... random varaction2? 10:01:25 <andythenorth> it can be done on industry creation 10:01:26 <andythenorth> every time it's discussed, we agree it would be annoying 10:02:00 <planetmaker> probably 10:02:12 <planetmaker> then the minimap would become useless 10:02:34 <andythenorth> might trouble the cargo chain gui as well 10:02:41 <planetmaker> or loose much of its value except 'there's an industry. No idea what it does, though' 10:03:00 <planetmaker> and you don't want to annoy Alberth ? ;-) 10:04:43 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC46FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:04:55 * andythenorth wonders where to get spades from in 1600 10:05:02 <andythenorth> not that I actually want to play in 1600 10:06:46 <planetmaker> 'openttd is a train game. carriages have no place there' :-P 10:10:23 <andythenorth> currently I'm not sure where FIRS players would get their shovels for digging :P 10:10:36 <andythenorth> oh well 10:14:49 <planetmaker> blacksmith provides tools, too, does he? 10:19:11 *** uros [~chatzilla@cpe-92-37-48-80.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #openttd 10:21:52 <andythenorth> planetmaker: blacksmith provides FMSP and goods currently 10:22:33 <andythenorth> could change goods to ENSP 10:23:01 <planetmaker> hm. No 10:23:13 <planetmaker> except if there's a lack of goods 10:23:15 <uros> hi , can someone know why i have all original trains and cariages duplicated? .. i used 8 Japam GRF-s (town names, trees, building set, landscape, meglev set, signals, stations and train set) ? 10:23:32 <planetmaker> yes, you probably added and removed newgrfs on a running game 10:23:37 <planetmaker> and ignored the red warning box 10:23:49 <uros> how i can fix this ? 10:23:54 <planetmaker> start a new game 10:24:15 <planetmaker> and chose the grfs you want to use _before_ creating the map 10:24:24 *** Beklugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has joined #openttd 10:24:26 <uros> i aha 10:24:28 <uros> ok thanx 10:25:07 <planetmaker> you *could* try to call 'reset_engines' in the console 10:25:10 <planetmaker> maybe that helps 10:25:12 <planetmaker> maybe not 10:25:49 <andythenorth> planetmaker: goods are available from glass works for all dates 10:25:58 <andythenorth> and from paper mill 10:26:01 <planetmaker> good enough 10:26:02 <andythenorth> and (if added) from pottery 10:26:12 <planetmaker> no need for more goods 10:26:27 <planetmaker> and someone has to produce ploughs and hay forks and hammers and ... 10:26:52 <planetmaker> besides I like much agriculture ;-) 10:27:07 <planetmaker> Might be that I'm influenced by my family's heredity, though 10:31:41 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:33:01 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D6BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:33:11 <fjb> Moin 10:35:56 <Rubidium> moi 10:37:41 <planetmaker> moin Rubidium , fjb 10:37:41 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 10:37:57 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 10:38:42 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:38:54 <__ln__> does anyone have a Kindle? 10:45:15 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.87.89] has joined #openttd 10:49:58 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@2002:6d4a:c7b0::1] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 10:51:55 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@2002:6d4a:c7b0::1] has joined #openttd 10:53:00 <fjb> Surely anyone does. :-) 10:53:09 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@2002:6d4a:c7b0::1] has quit [] 10:53:10 *** wollollo [~martin@host86-175-29-208.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #openttd 10:55:14 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@2002:6d4a:c7b0::1] has joined #openttd 11:03:48 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:17:13 <heffer> planetmaker: didn't know you were german, too :D 11:17:20 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-79-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 11:18:08 *** Zuu_ [Zuu@c-27f0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 11:23:09 *** Powerek38 [~chatzilla@dku229.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 11:23:38 <planetmaker> :) 11:24:15 <Powerek38> hi! my OpenTTD just after a few years of gameplay is getting much slower than the rest of my computer, even the mouse gets slower to move 11:24:47 <planetmaker> Powerek38: do you have many vehicles? NewGRFs? 11:25:03 *** Zuu [Zuu@c-ccf2e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:25:04 <planetmaker> many boats and few buoys? 11:25:15 <Alberth> AIs? 11:25:33 <Powerek38> planetmaker: yeah, I have quite a lot newGRF, but no boats and not much vehicles as it's just 1923 in the game and I started in 1920 11:27:18 <planetmaker> Powerek38: depending upon the newgrf they can eat quite a bit CPU under certain conditions. Especially if you have the ECS vectors and HUGE maps (>1000x1000) 11:28:04 <Powerek38> oh, that may be the problem, I do use ECS and my map is like 1024 x 2048 11:28:31 <Powerek38> ok, I'll turnoff the ECS, I hope this helps 11:28:35 <planetmaker> maybe you can post your savegame? 11:28:43 <planetmaker> but don't turn of ECS in your game. You'll ruin it 11:28:56 <Powerek38> planetmaker: no, I meant I'll run a new game without it 11:29:11 <planetmaker> try FIRS :-) 11:29:38 <Alberth> Powerek38: 1024x2048 looks big for single player 11:30:16 <planetmaker> ^ yes :-) 11:30:51 <Powerek38> ok, so I'll run a new game with no ECS and not bigger than 1024x1024. I hope this helps 11:30:58 <Powerek38> thanks for your advice :) 11:31:08 <planetmaker> no problem, you're welcome 11:31:15 *** Powerek38 [~chatzilla@dku229.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 11:31:20 <planetmaker> From our servers I just know... 11:31:27 <planetmaker> nvm obviously ;-) 11:31:32 <Alberth> :) 11:31:48 <Alberth> too addicted, obviously 11:31:52 <planetmaker> :-D 11:32:15 <planetmaker> he could test it on our current stable server... 1900 and FIRS 11:42:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.165.63] has joined #openttd 11:48:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.163.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:50:57 <Chris_Booth> wow I have a massive hangover 11:56:52 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 11:57:10 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:07:41 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@pc-209-82.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:12:37 <Ammler> for sp, a 256er map is already big enough :-) 12:18:46 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:04 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffc4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:22:14 *** avdg1 [~Adium@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:22:42 <avdg1> hi 12:22:58 *** avdg1 is now known as avdg 12:33:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D29F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:33 *** Michael [~Xaer0@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:35:08 *** Michael is now known as Guest26 12:36:10 *** X-2 is now known as Guest27 12:36:10 *** Guest26 is now known as X-2 12:36:38 *** Zuu_ [Zuu@c-27f0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:38 *** X-2 [~Xaer0@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:43 *** Zuu_ [Zuu@c-ccf2e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 12:38:44 *** Guest27 [~Xaer0@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:51 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:bdfc:ee0:5be3:c7ae] has joined #openttd 12:38:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:46:05 *** b_jonas [~x@dsl51B62585.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 12:48:23 <fjb> 1900 and FIRS? Should I consinder joining the server? 12:50:05 <planetmaker> fjb: why not? :-) It's 'only' FIRS 0.3 as it's a stable version. But still... 12:50:31 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@pc-209-182.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:51:58 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@pc-209-82.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:52:52 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@pc-209-82.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:54:48 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:58:43 *** Sacro1 [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-79-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 12:59:56 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@pc-209-182.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:05:06 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-79-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:06:00 <fjb> Do spectators get kicked or is my connection not stable enough? 13:12:14 <planetmaker> it's your connection 13:12:26 <planetmaker> I'm fine with watching and I don't have priviliges there 13:15:34 <robotboy> hello 13:15:53 * robotboy ponders going looking for a win32s api list 13:16:20 <__ln__> you want to run openttd on windows 3.11 for some specific reason? 13:16:58 <robotboy> no. I thought it's be interesting to see if OpenTTD could run under that platform without using the DOS version 13:27:08 <fjb> Does really anybody still use Windows 3? 13:28:11 <robotboy> Qantas was until a hyear or so ago for their in-flight entertainment systems. There were a few other airlines using it as well 13:28:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a windows 3.11 installation in dosbox 13:28:47 *** Sacro1 [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-79-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:29:01 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-79-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 13:29:05 <LaSeandre> sorry, what OS are we discussing here? Early Windows? 13:29:54 <__ln__> Vista -5 13:31:23 <LaSeandre> That's 2000, if we're being strict? 13:31:48 <__ln__> we aren't being strict 13:32:31 <LaSeandre> ah, but are we going back through the NT line or the DOS line? 13:33:04 <LaSeandre> oh, 95? 13:33:53 <robotboy> no 3.11 with Win32s 13:34:31 <LaSeandre> oh. 13:34:34 <LaSeandre> never used it. 13:36:12 * robotboy wonders if it is the threading that fails 13:36:18 * robotboy suspects not 13:37:50 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db810cb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:38:58 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 13:39:53 <robotboy> finding out why it fails would require an ancient sdk 13:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you can compile without threads 13:41:14 <robotboy> can I compile for Win9x using Visual Studio? 13:42:19 <robotboy> + without threads? 13:48:31 <Rubidium> IIRC you can't 13:49:32 *** avdg [~Adium@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:25 *** avdg [~Adium@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 13:51:02 <glx> indeed you can't 13:52:06 <glx> but with mingw you should be able to disable threads 13:52:56 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:54:39 <robotboy> ok 13:55:05 <robotboy> if I ever get mingw setup, I will try it 13:59:12 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@banning.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:06:22 *** wollollo [~martin@host86-175-29-208.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:02 *** Zuu_ [Zuu@c-ccf2e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:43 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@banning.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:17:00 <andythenorth> frosch123: I'm trying to see if I can patch for http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4131 14:17:33 <andythenorth> so the first instance of CheckIfCallBackAllowsAvailability should also check that industry is being generated by game, not player 14:17:49 <andythenorth> then CheckIfCallBackAllowsAvailability needs to be called again in both prospecting and none-prospecting loops? 14:18:51 <frosch123> there is a loop in CmdBuildIndustry when manually placing industries 14:18:58 <frosch123> currently it only does the tilechecks 14:19:26 <frosch123> make sure to also call the other checks there 14:19:38 <frosch123> you do not need to change the prospecting case though 14:23:45 <andythenorth> prospecting handles trying multiple layouts for itself? Or it will just fail and user won't know that it was because a layout wasn't available? 14:24:55 <frosch123> RandomRange(indspec->num_table) <- it tries all layouts 14:25:46 <frosch123> though if a lot of layouts fail, and the remaining layouts are hard to place, there is an increased chance that 5000 tries do not result in a suitable place 14:26:36 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db810cb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:29:02 * andythenorth ponders 14:31:17 <andythenorth> while loops scare me 14:32:50 <azaghal> while (0) scare(andythenorth); 14:32:59 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:33:43 <frosch123> won't scare you a lot :p 14:33:48 <frosch123> *that 14:35:01 <andythenorth> I wish I could see properly in code 14:35:16 <andythenorth> :P 14:35:39 <andythenorth> no-one gets born knowing how to code, but some get born with more ability to learn than others 14:35:44 <andythenorth> I am 'others' 14:37:51 <frosch123> I am lazy 14:38:24 <andythenorth> frosch123: I suppose it's dumb to move the cb28 handling inside CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree ? 14:38:45 <andythenorth> it seems inappropriate....but I can see how it would work 14:39:47 <frosch123> create a new fucntion, and move CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree + CheckIfCallBackAllowsCreation into it 14:39:56 <frosch123> then call that one from CreateNewIndustryHelper and the loop 14:40:37 <andythenorth> ok, that's a project for later today 14:40:55 <andythenorth> I'm going climbing :) 14:41:34 <frosch123> considering the clock that sounds like in-door :) 14:41:42 <andythenorth> yup 14:42:54 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd 14:49:11 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:49:38 *** orudge` [~orudge@c-75-73-67-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 14:50:07 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:50:10 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 14:50:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 14:50:15 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 14:50:43 *** orudge` [~orudge@c-75-73-67-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:50:46 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ 14:54:35 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:59:45 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 15:05:54 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:54 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:09:57 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:10:36 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:13:03 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:21:01 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db810cb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:27:37 <__ln__> http://apina.biz/34225.gif 15:29:10 <SmatZ> hehe :) 15:33:07 <SpComb> how melodramatic 15:33:33 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8BA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:33:49 <SmatZ> is __ln__ one of those "eka" guys? :p 15:35:20 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 15:36:59 <fonsinchen> I have a method in a class which shall be inlined and it's 4 lines long. Shall I 15:37:04 <fonsinchen> a, not inline it 15:37:12 <fonsinchen> b, put the definition in the header 15:37:22 <fonsinchen> c, put the definition in the class body 15:37:24 <fonsinchen> ? 15:37:58 <fonsinchen> I mean, with regards to coding style. 15:38:43 <frosch123> either b or a+c 15:38:52 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@banning.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:39:20 <SmatZ> "shall be inlined" doesn't work with "a" 15:40:20 <frosch123> nor with "c", does it? (except within the build unit) 15:40:56 <SmatZ> true, you would have to have class body in the header :) 15:41:10 <fonsinchen> the class body is in the header ... 15:41:32 <SmatZ> err... 15:41:40 <SmatZ> yeah, sorry :) 15:41:51 <fonsinchen> like "class Path { ... };" 15:41:53 <SmatZ> I think it's nicer to have definition in class body 15:42:52 <SmatZ> eg. not what is in widget_type.h 15:42:52 *** lasershock [lasershock@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:23 <fonsinchen> yes, shorter and less confusing. Contradicting to coding style, though: 15:43:28 <fonsinchen> "Very short methods can have one-line definition (if defined in the class scope)." 15:43:43 <roboboy> gnight/gmorning 15:44:24 <frosch123> [17:42] <SmatZ> eg. not what is in widget_type.h <- assuming you mean window_gui.h, i would not consider it to match coding style either :) 15:45:23 <SmatZ> frosch123: actually, both files have that "problem" at some places :) 15:45:36 <fonsinchen> in widget_type.h you have b, and c, ... and for the one-liners you use b, while for the longer SetPadding() you use c, ... 15:46:07 <frosch123> hmm, yeah, somehow i opened the wrong file :) 15:46:35 <SmatZ> fonsinchen: it seems to depend on who coded that part of code :) 15:46:55 <fonsinchen> OK, I'll put it in the class body. 15:47:31 *** lasershock [lasershock@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 15:52:52 <Alberth> maybe I should reconsider becoming an OpenTTD dev :p 15:54:55 <frosch123> yeah, they are pretty annoying, you really do not want to be part of them :p 15:55:54 * avdg should really consider to program c++ and read a lot of mac api's 15:56:36 <frosch123> i thought the point of that is to learn objc++ 15:56:58 <glx> objC 15:57:32 <Rubidium> glx: nah, objective-C++ is way better 15:59:03 *** uros [~chatzilla@cpe-92-37-48-80.dynamic.amis.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:09:12 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: bbiab] 16:10:40 <dihedral> hello 16:18:31 <Chris_Booth> hi dihedral 16:20:54 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:31:07 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db810cb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:36:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D29F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:36:30 <Andel> !lins 16:36:33 <Andel> !links 16:36:34 *** Andel was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #tycoon.] 16:36:41 *** Andel [~andel@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 16:37:19 <Andel> My mistake DorpsGek but is there really a need to kick me? 16:37:54 <__ln__> he's just following his orders 16:38:00 <dihedral> :-P 16:38:18 <Andel> he could have told me instead... 16:38:33 <Andel> ahhh - it's truebrain 16:39:16 <TrueBrain> euh, what? 16:39:24 <TrueBrain> don't highlight me :( 16:39:35 <Andel> hmm - DorpsGek flaged as you 16:39:45 <SmatZ> Andel: glx has script that sayd DorpsGek to kick whoever says "!*" 16:39:45 <dihedral> so? 16:39:47 <TrueBrain> that DorpsGek runs on my account means little 16:39:50 <Andel> ahhh right 16:39:56 <SmatZ> *says 16:40:03 <TrueBrain> either way, is the kick needed: yes 16:40:07 <SmatZ> :) 16:40:08 <dihedral> :-P 16:40:11 <TrueBrain> there wre some people in here who never learnt otherwise 16:40:22 <dihedral> still works i think :-P 16:40:29 <Andel> hmmm - and those of us who wanted to know the link for downloading? 16:40:32 <TrueBrain> and if you are not such person, glx will have no problem appoligizing ;) But most don't learn so kick :D 16:41:31 <Andel> perhaps an anomoloy of 3 !questions before kicking? 16:41:42 <TrueBrain> too much effort, too little gain 16:41:49 <TrueBrain> no bot in here reacts on !, so :) 16:42:10 <SmatZ> Andel: don't be ashamed, nobody is safe :) 16:42:13 <dihedral> TrueBrain, incorrect - at least one bot reacts to ! :-P 16:42:13 <SmatZ> !password 16:42:13 *** SmatZ was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 16:42:15 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 16:42:17 <SmatZ> see? 16:42:18 <dihedral> just not in the desired sense :-D 16:42:23 <TrueBrain> dihedral: it is no bot :) 16:42:32 <dihedral> well - kinda 16:42:43 <dihedral> it's a automated process scripted into an irc client 16:42:43 <TrueBrain> 1 script does not make a bot 16:42:45 <olleman> feels good man yes/no? 16:43:04 <olleman> I have a magic 16:43:08 <olleman> yeah, that's SO 2009 16:43:40 <dihedral> TrueBrain, as of when does it count as a bot? :-P 16:43:53 <Andel> hmmm 16:43:56 <TrueBrain> 2 or more? :p No, in my opinion when it is dedicated to it 16:43:59 <Andel> i'm gonna go play some openttd 16:44:09 <dihedral> good point 16:44:17 <SmatZ> http://binaries.openttd.org :) 16:44:23 <dihedral> :-D 16:44:27 <Rubidium> openttd.org/download-stable 16:44:36 <Rubidium> openttd.org/download-trunk 16:44:40 <Rubidium> openttd.org/download-opengfx 16:44:46 <Rubidium> openttd.org/download-grfcodec 16:44:46 <TrueBrain> SPAM! 16:44:48 <TrueBrain> :D 16:44:49 <SmatZ> hmm topic misses "binaries." 16:44:57 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: binaries. is no website really 16:45:02 <Rubidium> SmatZ: binaries isn't that useful for users 16:45:06 <TrueBrain> all are linked via http://www.openttd.org/ 16:45:06 <SmatZ> ok :) 16:45:22 <TrueBrain> (where most people also find the download link *hint* Andel *hint* :D :D ) 16:45:51 <glx> a big green button on the official www is enough anyway :) 16:45:52 *** einKarl [~einKarl@77-23-166-116-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 16:45:53 <dihedral> not sure he was looking for the link 16:45:56 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@banning.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:03 <SmatZ> yeah, the http://www.openttd.org/download-stable page is better :) 16:46:09 <TrueBrain> dihedral: [18:40] <Andel> hmmm - and those of us who wanted to know the link for downloading? 16:46:17 <dihedral> oh 16:46:20 <dihedral> shame 16:46:38 <dihedral> well, there are some who use a !download command in #openttdcoop 16:46:47 <dihedral> and then just click a link 16:46:52 <dihedral> heck - they'd trust any source 16:46:57 * dihedral evil-grins 16:47:02 <SmatZ> [17:52:58] <Alberth> maybe I should reconsider becoming an OpenTTD dev :p <== what happened? :( 16:47:02 <TrueBrain> we are not such community :D 16:47:06 <glx> my script "redirects" to #openttdcoop ;) 16:47:36 <SmatZ> glx: it wasn't your script then? 16:47:54 <dihedral> SmatZ, his script 'mentions' #openttdcoop when kicking ;-) 16:48:05 <TrueBrain> [18:36] *** Andel has been kicked from the channel by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #tycoon.). 16:48:07 <TrueBrain> logs don't lie 16:48:17 <SmatZ> it can mention #tycoon for !links :) 16:48:31 <TrueBrain> so glx lied! :D 16:48:45 <dihedral> * DorpsGek has kicked SmatZ from #openttd (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.) <- NOPE 16:48:46 <glx> well there are 2 options depending on the !command 16:48:52 <SmatZ> probably it was me, who lied 16:48:54 <TrueBrain> :D 16:48:56 <SmatZ> :) 16:48:57 <SmatZ> hehe 16:49:08 <TrueBrain> what a lovely useless conversation :) 16:50:28 <glx> regexp("!(links)") { <-- #tycoon 16:50:28 <glx> regexp("!(clients|dl|download|grf|help|info|ip|osai|password|playercount|players|rcon|revision|version|wiki)") { <-- #openttdcoop 16:50:40 <TrueBrain> !bubba 16:50:42 <TrueBrain> :D 16:50:53 <TrueBrain> @kick TrueBrain act normal 16:50:53 *** TrueBrain was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [act normal] 16:50:56 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.132] has joined #openttd 16:51:07 <glx> probably impossible ;) 16:51:15 * SmatZ wonders what !osai should do 16:51:23 <glx> dunno 16:51:25 <SmatZ> :) 16:51:34 <TrueBrain> join #openttdcoop and try ;) 16:51:39 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:45 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 16:55:15 <dihedral> why not kick !~ m/links/ with redirect to #openttdcoop? 16:56:21 <glx> because I do what I want :) 17:01:09 * SpComb hugs CIA-2 17:01:09 * CIA-2 hugs SpComb 17:03:41 * andythenorth is done climbing, and types with tired chalky fingers :P 17:11:06 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 17:20:50 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 17:27:09 <SpComb> "I don't want to use one-way path signals as their constant red light is depressing" 17:27:54 <b_jonas> change the images 17:30:11 <Eddi|zuHause> use semaphores :) 17:30:25 <b_jonas> lol 17:30:44 <Rubidium> replace the signal sprites with happy smiles 17:30:47 *** b_jonas [~x@dsl51B62585.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:41:53 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8BA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:42:52 * andythenorth needs to learn how to declare a function in C++ :P 17:43:27 <Alberth> like a definition, except ; instead of { ... } at the end 17:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> type name(type1 param1, type2 param2); 17:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> probably ; instead of , 17:44:54 <Eddi|zuHause> no matter which way round i write it, it's always wrong for that language :p 17:45:40 <glx> type name(type1, type2); should work too, but not recommended 17:46:02 <SpComb> default argument values! 17:46:23 <glx> ha it's a C thing only then 17:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a hard time imagining this to work properly... 17:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean there's an ambiguity of whether it's a type name, or a param name with implicit int type 17:48:03 <SmatZ> glx: should work in C++ roo 17:48:04 <SmatZ> too 17:48:20 <SmatZ> name (param1, param2); is C-only 17:48:48 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8BA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: <Nachricht>] 17:49:20 <glx> WINBASEAPI HANDLE WINAPI CreateMutexA(LPSECURITY_ATTRIBUTES,BOOL,LPCSTR); <-- indeed it works, though it's in extern "C" {} 17:49:33 <glx> (mingw w32api) 17:51:24 *** Zuu_ [Zuu@c-33f2e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 17:53:16 <__ln__> that's type name(type1,type2); isn't it 17:53:52 * andythenorth googles 17:55:28 <andythenorth> my method of learning C++ by guessing doesn't work 17:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's either "name(param1,param2)" or "type name(type1, type2)"? 17:55:56 <Eddi|zuHause> now i understand what's so difficult about syntactical analysis of C++ ;) 17:56:20 <Hirundo> omitting the return type is C-only (default-int) 17:56:58 <frosch123> nothing is as frightening as the ancient int name(bla1, bla2) int bla1, bla2; {..} 17:57:12 *** einKarl [~einKarl@77-23-166-116-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:18 <frosch123> not sure though whether i got it right 17:57:26 <glx> yes, luckily I never used this syntax 17:58:05 <Alberth> frosch123: looks ok, except a real programmer would not type the first "int" as it is implied :) 17:58:47 *** wollollo [~martin@host86-175-29-208.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #openttd 17:58:53 *** thastig [4493599e@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:59:05 <thastig> hi, is anyone here? 17:59:14 <Hirundo> Real programmers use 1-letter variable names to maximize the information entropy per character 17:59:16 <dihedral> nah 17:59:32 <dihedral> Hirundo, lol 17:59:36 <Rubidium> Hirundo: and it makes you application smaller as well 17:59:48 <thastig> where would one go around looking to help with translation? 18:00:23 <dihedral> totally depends on what you need :-P 18:00:24 <Hirundo> type 'translate openttd' in google? 18:00:30 <thastig> -.- 18:00:38 <dihedral> Hirundo, but can you go there? 18:00:44 <thastig> i meant i wanna be an editor so i can translate my language 18:01:13 <andythenorth> real programmers don't use 1 letter variable names 18:01:25 <Hirundo> _ and __ are better, indeed 18:01:27 <andythenorth> they write a minify processors to do that 18:01:38 <Rubidium> thastig: what language would you translate to? 18:01:46 <thastig> Urdu 18:01:47 <planetmaker> thastig: did you try translator.openttd.org? :-) 18:01:53 <Rubidium> in any case: http://translator.openttd.org/en/faq :) 18:01:59 <thastig> of course i did dammit >.< 18:02:08 <thastig> i logged in, registered, i need to be an editor to make changes 18:02:21 <thastig> enough with the shitty advice please 18:02:31 <Rubidium> question #3 in the FAQ :) 18:02:56 <dihedral> that little piece of attitude actually made me smirk 18:03:03 <Rubidium> oh, you already sent an email :) 18:03:12 * dihedral chuckles 18:03:22 <thastig> yep, i think i have done everything then 18:03:30 <thastig> must wait for a mail back now i guess 18:03:32 <Rubidium> yes, the emails are handled manually 18:03:34 * andythenorth has to learn difference between static and void types 18:03:37 <andythenorth> new to me 18:04:16 <andythenorth> woah. I have to declare the type the function returns? What crazy world is this :o 18:04:16 <thastig> i follow this project on and off every 6-10 months 18:04:32 <thastig> is there any major updates to the game or is it all little performance tweaks in every release? 18:05:10 <dihedral> andythenorth, what crazy world do you come frome? 18:05:12 <Rubidium> lots of new features every major release, then bugfixes in each minor release 18:05:13 <dihedral> *from 18:05:22 <andythenorth> dihedral: python of course 18:05:34 <dihedral> of course! how could i ask! 18:05:38 <dihedral> so ... obvious! 18:05:39 <andythenorth> :P 18:05:46 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 18:05:51 <thastig> hmm, i just got a new laptop and cant wait to try the game again. my previous laptop used to overheat and burn my crotch 18:05:53 <dihedral> well, yes, you need to define the type that is returned 18:06:00 <andythenorth> dihedral: I don't care for your shitty advice 18:06:10 <Rubidium> thastig: there should be a mail on its way, although you should be able to translate now (maybe you'd to relogin though) 18:06:23 <dihedral> thastig, the term 'laptop' is no longer meant literally 18:06:46 * andythenorth avoids trying to understand and just reads the instructions 18:06:53 <thastig> lol yeah thanks for that Rubidium, im gonna afk and start working 18:06:54 <andythenorth> no types in nfo :P 18:07:03 <dihedral> andythenorth, thanks, i'll take that as a compliment. 18:07:10 <andythenorth> :D 18:07:13 <dihedral> ;-) 18:07:49 *** elho [elho@psycho.elho.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:43 <dihedral> the magic in php "lets" you not define types too 18:09:26 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has joined #openttd 18:09:27 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 18:09:44 <andythenorth> and in javascript to some extent, although it will probably blow up 18:09:51 <dihedral> ^^ 18:09:58 <andythenorth> but blowing up is standard operating procedure for js 18:10:00 <dihedral> tcl has types 18:10:22 <dihedral> and only one type that needs 'declaring' 18:10:45 * andythenorth lives in a world of duck typing 18:10:45 <dihedral> the other of the 2 types is a given, as appart from arrays, everything is a string 18:12:03 <thastig> hey, can anyone help me with the basics of the translating interface. which parts do i clicky and change...and is there a certain way to do it etc?. 18:12:28 <thastig> just need a lil push to get started :) 18:12:30 * Rubidium is off for some dinner or something :) 18:13:05 * andythenorth tries to remember programming 18:13:17 <dihedral> thastig, there is a dropdown with which you can select 'all', 'in need of confirmation', 'recently changed', uncommitted', and 'not translated' 18:13:20 <andythenorth> nfo is not programming 18:13:21 <Yexo> thastig: if you just want to translate everything and don't care which parts you translate first: go to the edit tab 18:13:31 *** elho [elho@psycho.elho.net] has joined #openttd 18:13:36 <dihedral> (watch out for a notice bar, it may appear if one of those 18:13:39 <dihedral> lists is empty) 18:13:40 <Yexo> select "Untranslated strings" in the dropdown 18:13:54 <dihedral> searching is done on basis of the selected list 18:14:29 <dihedral> you are able to look at other translations (iirc) but cannot edit them, so perhaps that might also be a good hint ;-) 18:15:14 <thastig> i can edit them now 18:15:25 <dihedral> try to be consistent, i.e. with the translation you chose for 'waypoint' or 'drive through road stop 18:15:27 <thastig> like this is confusing me 18:15:29 <thastig> {COMMA} bag{P "" s} of valuables 18:16:12 <dihedral> P stands for plural, "" means, the singular has nothing to append to the word 'bag', and for Plural add an "s" 18:16:27 <dihedral> i.e. 1 bag of valuables 18:16:33 <dihedral> 2 bas<- that s 18:16:35 * andythenorth tries to understand why CommandCost is declared by so many functions in industry_cmd.cpp 18:16:36 <dihedral> eh 18:16:37 <dihedral> bags 18:17:03 <dihedral> andythenorth, every cmd has to return command cost, as they are called automatically depending on the CMD type sent in the network packet 18:17:19 <dihedral> and that is the value expected, probably to be deducted from the company 18:17:21 <andythenorth> so I have to declare it 18:17:32 *** orudge` [~orudge@c-75-73-67-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 18:17:42 <dihedral> as a return value, yes 18:17:51 <thastig> ooh, i get it.. 18:17:54 <thastig> *goes to ponder some more 18:18:03 <dihedral> andythenorth, check some command that does not cost anything, i.e. CMD_COMPANY_RENAME 18:18:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: commandcost is used to sum up all costs or error codes during execution 18:18:43 <frosch123> i.e. it is not only cost, but also success/failure 18:19:05 <dihedral> CmdRenameCompany in company_cmd.cpp 18:19:14 <dihedral> return CommandCost(); 18:19:40 <dihedral> or: return CMD_ERROR; 18:20:09 <andythenorth> ok so a new function related to building industry will need to return CommandCost 18:20:12 <andythenorth> makes sense 18:20:41 <thastig> and what does the "Mark" button do in translations? 18:20:50 <dihedral> but do not listen to me, as i give shitty advice which you do not care for anyway ;-) 18:21:10 <frosch123> thastig: there is a category "strings needing validation" 18:21:11 <thastig> indeed <_< 18:21:12 <dihedral> thastig, Marking a translation so that you or someone else can have a look at it later on 18:21:20 <thastig> ooh oki 18:21:22 <Yexo> that depends, do you also need to return an error message from that function or not? If no, a bool would suffice as return value 18:21:35 <andythenorth> Yexo: I have no idea yet :) 18:21:39 <thastig> i think im all set now. im gonna shift to all strings and fix, write em 18:25:13 *** [hta]specx [~opera@ip94-126-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #openttd [] 18:27:01 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:37 <thastig> what do i do if the string does not match the original....in the translation 18:37:58 <thastig> like it says Cotton Candy in the string but Candyfloss in the Original 18:39:33 <dihedral> cotton candy is used in toyland only ^^ 18:40:04 <thastig> soo do i change the Candyfloss to Cotton Candy and then translate it? 18:40:21 <dihedral> you cannot translate origianl string 18:40:22 <thastig> or do i just translate candyfloss 18:40:26 <dihedral> you translate FROM original 18:40:32 <thastig> kk 18:40:55 <frosch123> shouldn't you end up with the same when translating them? 18:41:22 <thastig> it was a tricky one as there is no such thing as a candy floss or cotton candy in the urdu language 18:41:42 <frosch123> lucky you :) 18:41:53 <planetmaker> thastig: if there's no literal translation, translate it as good as possible. Something which fits 18:42:27 <planetmaker> If you translate something like 'cotton candy' to 'schocolate bars' it will do, too - if it makes sense ;-) 18:42:33 <planetmaker> s/sch/ch/ 18:42:41 <SpComb> those pink fluffy things 18:43:10 <thastig> well we normally use letters and words which sound exactly like the english word if its not in our language 18:44:34 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 18:45:46 <planetmaker> hm... shouldn't you give your players rather an idea what it is by the name than a translation which *sounds* the same but has no meaning? 18:46:42 <thastig> we're a lazy bunch. instead of making up new words we just use the foreign word but write it with our letters 18:47:40 <planetmaker> that's certainly ok. If the average urdu speaking person then knows what it means 18:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause> {COMMA} means it has an additional parameter which should be displayed as a thousand-separated number 18:53:06 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [] 18:54:38 <andythenorth> thastig: are you the stig? 18:55:54 * andythenorth is confused 18:56:08 <thastig> of course i am 18:57:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: cb28 should have no effect if I comment this (and following 2 lines)? (_game_mode != GM_EDITOR && !CheckIfCallBackAllowsAvailability(it, IACT_USERCREATION)) { 18:57:59 <andythenorth> the stig (allegedly) lives round the corner from my old flat 18:58:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: that is not cb28, but 22 or so 18:58:50 <SpComb> Ú©ÙتÙÚº Ú©ÙÚÛ 18:58:56 <andythenorth> doh 18:58:59 <andythenorth> thanks 18:59:38 * andythenorth chalks up one more victory for the 'first try and break it to understand it' method of coding 19:00:09 <andythenorth> I could have stared at something for ages thinking "why doesn't it work" 19:00:20 <andythenorth> much more fun to say "why isn't it broken when it should be" :P 19:00:30 <frosch123> :p 19:01:22 * andythenorth wonders where cb28 is checked 19:01:39 <andythenorth> CheckIfIndustryIsAllowed? 19:01:48 <frosch123> CheckIfCallBackAllowsCreation 19:01:51 <andythenorth> no 19:01:58 <andythenorth> ah thanks 19:03:36 <thastig> ohai 19:04:06 <thastig> now pay attention 19:04:10 <thastig> singular : ٠ساÙر 19:04:25 <thastig> plural: ٠ساÙرﻎﻊ 19:04:37 <thastig> {COMMA} ٠ساÙر{P "" ﻎﻊ} 19:04:40 <thastig> amirite? 19:05:32 <frosch123> looks correct 19:05:39 *** Sacro1 [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-8-110.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:05:43 <frosch123> though it took me some time to understand the question :) 19:06:07 <thastig> this is a lot harder than i imagined 19:07:16 <frosch123> of course {P ٠ساÙر ٠ساÙرﻎﻊ} might also work 19:07:51 <thastig> are you positive? 19:08:10 <frosch123> what? 19:08:12 <thastig> so i write every word like that? {P plural singular} 19:08:29 <frosch123> no, {P singular plural} 19:08:52 <thastig> i wish my language was left to right -.- 19:08:53 <frosch123> but with rtl it might be displayed {P plural singular} :) 19:08:53 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-79-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:08:56 <Rubidium> only when there's {COMMA} or {NUM} in the string 19:10:37 <frosch123> thastig: there are languages with 5 plural forms :) 19:11:24 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.35.219] has joined #openttd 19:13:52 <thastig> >.< 19:14:26 <thastig> {WEIGHT} shows up as 45kg or sumething like that right? 19:14:44 <thastig> 45kg of Wood etc. 19:14:57 <frosch123> yes, though likely tons, not kg :) 19:15:07 <thastig> true 19:15:12 <thastig> Urdu is a mess <.< 19:15:29 <thastig> i gotta check everything thats already been done too 19:18:08 <andythenorth> brrr 19:18:42 <andythenorth> I won't be fixing this tonight http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4131 19:19:04 <andythenorth> is starting with a pencil the best way to understand industry code? 19:19:19 <andythenorth> i.e. writing out all the functions and vars, and what's in scope where? 19:19:48 <andythenorth> I can't seem to hold it in my head 19:22:42 <Alberth> write doxygen comments, and read the generated documentation? 19:23:21 <andythenorth> :) 19:24:26 <andythenorth> I can more or less understand the industry code in each function :) 19:24:45 <andythenorth> it's what's calling what when and with what vars that I can't keep track of 19:26:50 <andythenorth> for example, what is this declaring, and what's the scope of it? IndustryType it = GB(p1, 0, 8); 19:27:43 <frosch123> when commands are send over the network they usually just get a tile and two 32bit ints as data 19:27:51 <frosch123> so everything needs stuffing into those two p1 and p2 19:28:06 <Alberth> it creates a new varible 'it', assigns a value. Scope of 'it' is until the closing } 19:28:24 <andythenorth> IndustryType? 19:28:29 <thastig> k 81 strings checked. now to download the game and actually play it after months of hiatus :o 19:29:09 <Alberth> type of 'it' (a number 0 .. NUM_INDUSTRYTYPES-1) 19:29:19 *** thastig [4493599e@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:29:58 <andythenorth> ah 19:30:28 <Alberth> there are sort of standard names for standard things, '*i' for Industry struct, it for IndustryType 19:30:41 <dihedral> c for company 19:30:41 <andythenorth> so this fetches some kind of data type holding industry props? const IndustrySpec *indspec = GetIndustrySpec(it); 19:30:47 <dihedral> p for packet 19:31:02 <dihedral> andythenorth, what kind of editor are you using? 19:31:09 <andythenorth> Xcode 19:31:18 <Alberth> yep, IndustrySpec struct describes the IndustryType 19:32:26 <dihedral> there might be a menu item (linked to a hot key) that will take you to the definition of a variable / function / class / method /enum. ... 19:33:15 <andythenorth> dihedral: there is 19:33:27 <andythenorth> I think I need C / C++ for dummies first though ;) 19:33:59 <dihedral> nah ;-) 19:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> i.e. writing out all the functions and vars, and what's in scope where? <-- you might want to get your IDE to print a call graph 19:36:30 <andythenorth> functions seem (to me) to pass an insane amount of parameters :) 19:36:56 <Alberth> Command functions usually do yeah :) 19:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a system behind it 19:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it gets easier once you understand that ;) 19:37:24 <frosch123> they industry building functions only do since someone requested to be able to access ceratin stuff in those callbacks 19:38:13 <frosch123> thought it might be easier at some point to stuff everything into a struct 19:38:18 *** LunarWolf [~LunarWolf@azq224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 19:38:58 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:39:06 <LunarWolf> needs a tool to encode that I embed graphics in the game and check 19:39:33 <frosch123> what? 19:39:40 <Eddi|zuHause> you what? 19:39:53 <frosch123> btw. i have not seen bennythenoob lately 19:41:38 <Alberth> LunarWolf: for what graphics? 19:42:18 * Alberth considers recommending NML as tool 19:42:57 *** andythenorth is now known as someone 19:43:06 *** someone is now known as andythenorth 19:43:53 <frosch123> hehe, but iirc the request to access the randombits was from ge*rge or so 19:43:54 <LunarWolf> coding spirites 19:45:19 <frosch123> what sprites? 19:45:30 <frosch123> gui? vehicles? landscape? industries? houses? 19:45:38 <frosch123> stations? objects? 19:46:07 <frosch123> 8bpp normal zoom? 32bpp extra zoom? 19:46:17 <LunarWolf> 32 19:46:24 <LunarWolf> industries 19:46:32 <frosch123> extra zoom industries? 19:46:40 <LunarWolf> yep 19:46:44 <LunarWolf> extra 19:47:21 <frosch123> you couldn't get an easier projekt to start with? 19:47:51 <frosch123> replacing graphics of default industries? or new industries? 19:49:52 <LunarWolf> Industrial_Stations_Renewal-0.8.0 With someone we do this in an image to 32bpp Extra Zoom 19:50:56 <frosch123> so, extrazoom stations, not industries? 19:51:40 <LunarWolf> stations 19:51:55 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db810cb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:52:15 <LunarWolf> I was wrong 19:52:45 <frosch123> ok, do you want to replace the graphics of the original stations? of industrial-stations-renewal-8? or separate new ones? 19:54:06 <LunarWolf> e have two test models to check, but I do not have to encode 19:56:00 <LunarWolf> so want to replace the original, and this applies to all contents of this supplement. 19:57:44 <frosch123> i guess then you only need pngcodec 19:58:01 <LunarWolf> so want to replace the original, and this applies to all contents of this supplement. 19:58:26 <frosch123> you will need to figure out the spritenumbers of the original graphics 19:58:45 <frosch123> either by decoding them using grfcodec or grf2html, or by using the ingame spritealigner and spritepicker 19:59:18 <olleman> oh is the wiki also... 19:59:21 <olleman> rip 19:59:33 <olleman> now that's popular 20:14:55 * andythenorth resumes staring at industry code :) 20:15:20 * avdg goes for another osx patch 20:15:43 <andythenorth> :o 20:16:08 <avdg> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=50138 20:16:35 <andythenorth> so if I'm trying to wrap two existing functions (a and b) in another function c, when I call c, I need to supply all the parameters used by a and b 20:16:56 <andythenorth> are parameters a strict list where order matters? 20:20:49 <frosch123> yes 20:22:22 <andythenorth> ok 20:22:35 <andythenorth> so I can see how the function declaration handles what's passed 20:22:53 <andythenorth> assert != some form of unit test? 20:23:32 <frosch123> assert checks whether the term passed to it evaluated to true, and crashes ottd if not :) 20:23:50 <frosch123> so yes, for testing 20:24:02 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Quit: âI-n-v-i-s-i-o-nâ 3.2 (July '10)] 20:24:24 <andythenorth> so declaring a new function also means understanding what needs to be asserted? 20:24:51 <frosch123> if you just call other functions you do not need to duplicate their assertions 20:30:04 <Wolf01> 'night 20:30:12 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:32:03 *** LunarWolf [~LunarWolf@azq224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 20:38:19 <frosch123> night 20:38:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffc4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:54 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:43:56 <andythenorth> good night 20:45:41 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: A key, command, or action that tells the system to return to a previous state or stop a process.] 20:46:31 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db810cb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:47 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8BA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:02:57 *** keoz [~keikoz@418pc.wohnheimg.uni-frankfurt.de] has joined #openttd 21:09:53 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06c3db.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 21:17:49 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@pc-209-82.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:18:39 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Capn_Frink 21:19:31 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:53 *** Zuu_ [Zuu@c-33f2e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:27:17 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:29:37 *** Niavmaii [ad23f29f@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:31:38 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8BA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:32:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:36:13 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:47:53 *** keoz [~keikoz@418pc.wohnheimg.uni-frankfurt.de] has quit [Quit: keoz] 21:54:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:05 *** davis [~b@p5B28A518.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:58:05 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:02:02 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has quit [Quit: Good bye] 22:09:21 <Terkhen> good night 22:11:58 <Rubidium> good night Terkhen 22:22:04 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has joined #openttd 22:29:26 *** Sacro1 [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-8-110.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:33:00 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 22:33:01 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:33:34 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:40:43 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:41:13 <avdg> gn 22:41:26 *** avdg [~Adium@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:03:16 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:19 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:06:03 *** Capn_Frink is now known as Prof_Frink 23:11:27 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:12:25 <Aali> oh what the hell is this 23:12:48 <Aali> since when do trains consider the back of a one-way PBS to be a valid destination? 23:14:00 <Aali> whenever a train gets lost in my current game it starts bouncing off the back of the nearest signal 23:14:47 <Aali> which pretty much guarantees it will be lost until I manually rescue it 23:14:47 *** fjb is now known as Guest90 23:14:49 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DCB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:19:52 <GecK> good night 23:19:55 *** GecK [Geck@pro75-3-82-229-184-63.fbx.proxad.net] has left #openttd [] 23:21:37 *** Guest90 [~frank@p5485D6BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:26 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:43 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 23:35:04 <V453000> Aali: a feature :D I consider it a bug though 23:35:31 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:51 <V453000> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3908 23:36:46 <V453000> it breaks the game, and by having it you dont actually reach anything reasonable 23:40:20 <Aali> this was done *intentionally*? 23:40:30 <Aali> wow 23:40:51 <Aali> could atleast have made it an option 23:41:01 <Aali> and if I had any say it would default to off 23:42:50 <ccfreak2k> The backside of PBS signals aren't unpassable, and this is intentional behaviour. 23:43:06 <ccfreak2k> Instead, the penalty of going through the back is high as to "discourage" trains from taking that route. 23:43:19 <Aali> one-way PBS 23:43:52 <Aali> and penalties have nothing to do with it 23:43:58 <Aali> since it only affects lost trains 23:51:20 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.87.89] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 23:55:10 <Eddi|zuHause> lost trains are an unfixable issue 23:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why it's a Bad Thing (tm) to try to fix them 23:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it will only disturb perfectly valid situations where the behaviour is useful 23:57:14 <Aali> IMO, no train should ever reserv a path to the back of a one-way signal, lost or not 23:57:35 <Aali> the behaviour only affects lost trains 23:58:36 <Aali> so if you consider it "useful" you rely on lost trains finding their way 23:58:48 <Aali> which of course is a bad idea 23:59:47 <Aali> as I see it, the way it is now serves a select few odd situations and breaks everything else whereas the old behaviour was good most of the time