Log for #openttd on 3rd October 2010:
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00:00:04  <davis> good luck! :D
00:00:47  <TruePikachu> Lol, crashed
00:00:59  * TruePikachu sees if locally logging in is any faster
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00:02:06  <TruePikachu> process table looks all screwed up...
00:02:49  <TruePikachu> Why only 1 mingetty instead of 6?
00:03:25  <TruePikachu> Yeah, looks like X11ing to that computer is a bad idea
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00:07:49  <TruePikachu> lol @ how horrible X11 over Windows was
00:08:56  * TruePikachu resumes his most recent game of OpenTTD
00:10:18  <TruePikachu> Why must it be so har to get a sorted drop station for factories set up?
00:10:26  <TruePikachu> s/har/hard/
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00:24:56  <davis> TruePikachu , playing offline I suppose?
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00:37:14  <TruePikachu> davis: yes
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00:49:37  <TruePikachu> lol, our cat just stole a pack of Post-its
00:50:48  <davis> :D
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04:07:39  <GhostlyDeath> If you guys plan on actually doing Imperial for US and UK, then you can do tons vs metric tons
04:09:21  <GhostlyDeath> There any cargo ships that go faster than 15mph?
04:34:27  <GhostlyDeath> Why did I lose money when supplying a truck stop?
04:35:45  <GhostlyDeath> Goods went from trucks transferred over to a dock sent to another dock via ship, then transferred to trucks and shipped to town
04:35:54  <GhostlyDeath> then when they unload, "Cost: 0"
04:41:32  <GhostlyDeath> It's costing more and more to give them goods
04:46:36  <GhostlyDeath> Is it because the goods have been waiting awhile?
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04:48:21  <GhostlyDeath> 1000 units of good are waiting to be given away
04:48:29  <GhostlyDeath> Now I added trains with a bunch of cards holding 25 goods
04:48:33  <GhostlyDeath> sending them faster to the dock
04:48:39  <GhostlyDeath> and added more goods ships
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04:53:28  <GhostlyDeath> I just added a dock next to the city and sent all the goods now
04:53:33  <GhostlyDeath> now the boats make k a piece
04:53:57  <TruePikachu> GhostlyDeath: You know how it was costing you to make a delivery?
04:54:21  *** davis [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:54:22  <TruePikachu> That is because of the transfer order
04:54:40  <TruePikachu> Just so you know
04:55:22  <TruePikachu> The money which costed you went to whatever made the transfer order, not unlode
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04:55:48  <GhostlyDeath> great, now they aren't accepting good =/
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04:57:19  <GhostlyDeath> suckers
04:57:34  <GhostlyDeath> I just built a dock and merged it with that truck stop
04:57:35  <GhostlyDeath> hehehehe
04:58:28  <GhostlyDeath> which did accept goods
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05:00:05  <GhostlyDeath> That'l teach you to mess with Finfingpool transportation
05:03:16  <GhostlyDeath> The oil industry is failing
05:03:25  <GhostlyDeath> Those oil rigs aren't producing anything much
05:03:53  <GhostlyDeath> Guess i'll sell those useless tanker trucks
05:04:23  <GhostlyDeath> might just keep one then
05:10:27  <GhostlyDeath> heh, one of the cargo ships dropped off stuff in transfer stuff since they stoped accepting, so I made a truck drive back and forth between two adjacent stops to tranmsfer goods
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05:23:29  <TruePikachu> I forget...which way is intercontinental bigger?
05:23:42  <TruePikachu> Oh, hi Xrufuian
05:23:55  <Xrufuian> Howdy.
05:24:15  <TruePikachu> Let's just say you will never use X11 to connect here...lags WAY too much
05:24:35  <Xrufuian> Um, ok?
05:24:37  <TruePikachu> Even just in the LAN
05:24:47  <TruePikachu> X11 = X windowing system
05:25:14  <Xrufuian> I know that...
05:25:36  <Xrufuian> Oh! I remember now.
05:25:43  <TruePikachu> What?
05:26:34  <Xrufuian> Nevermind.
05:27:18  <TruePikachu> :P well, do you know which way an intercontinental airport is bigger? The only way to tell from the Wiki is a picture, which Lynx isn't too find of displaying ;D
05:28:44  <Xrufuian> IIRC, it's longer NE-SW. But then again, I'm tired, and may be remembering wrong.
05:29:03  <TruePikachu> I thought it was that way too...
05:29:20  <TruePikachu> Well, I just noticed how my play style had evolved
05:29:36  <Xrufuian> More realism?
05:29:46  <TruePikachu> First, I'd use those 4-track LBBR mainlines (uber unrealistic)
05:30:06  <TruePikachu> Then, I used those L_L?R_R more realistic mainlines
05:30:27  <TruePikachu> Now I just use L?R pretty much all around, splitting to L_L?R_R when needed
05:30:44  <TruePikachu> So yeah, lots more realism (and freight behind PAX)
05:32:20  <TruePikachu> I had an Alco S2 (60mph, but massed down to 55mph) in front of a stream of duplexes (115mph)
05:32:56  <Xrufuian> You're forgetting something: In North America, almost all tracks are bi-directional, regardless of location. Exceptions are MTAs, some parts of the NEC, and something else that I can't remember.
05:33:27  <TruePikachu> Well, remember, you can't do very realistic bidirectional track in OTTD as far as I'm concerned.
05:34:03  <Xrufuian> I guess you never really looked at my railway signaling?
05:34:06  <TruePikachu> It seems that even MSTS does bidirectional track better, and that's saying something, knowing how the sigs and AI pathfinder there work
05:34:30  <TruePikachu> No, I mean, on a stretch of track, you can only have at most 2 trains going that one way at a time
05:34:46  <Xrufuian> That's CTC though.
05:35:01  <TruePikachu> CTC?
05:35:09  <TruePikachu> Oh, nvm
05:35:19  <TruePikachu> That was @ MSTS
05:36:20  <TruePikachu> I have LONG stretches of track (especially my main station join)
05:36:24  <Xrufuian> Only simulators have implemented CTC-like signaling. (It's not true CTC.)
05:37:08  <Xrufuian> OpenTTD can't handle permissive siginaling. Not yet, anyways.
05:37:14  <TruePikachu> Yes, it is not true CTC. True CTC does not route AI into each other, like it has done to me on occasion
05:37:51  <TruePikachu> But that may have just been me not knowing the standard procedures, but it should be foolproof for MSTS
05:38:02  <Xrufuian> Well, CTC needs a human to make the decsions.
05:38:41  <TruePikachu> Hmmm.../me thinks of an OTTD multiplayer mode which will allow for a CTC system :)
05:38:57  <TruePikachu> ^^ for 3.0
05:39:01  <Xrufuian> Things like BART, DC METRO, etc. are ABS-ish system.
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05:39:17  <TruePikachu> OTTD...
05:39:31  <TruePikachu> In fact, just TT...
05:40:03  <Xrufuian> Metro's Gold Line is CTC with speed-based cab-signaling.
05:40:22  <TruePikachu> Like the default Amtraks in MSTS?
05:40:37  <TruePikachu> [8] <-- this control
05:40:41  <Xrufuian> That's apsect-based.
05:41:06  <TruePikachu> Oh, so it would just read out the speed with no indication of aspect?
05:41:56  <Xrufuian> "Signal speed" is a maxium speed for a partucular aspect. Such exists on non-cab-signalind lines, like Metrolink.
05:42:29  <Xrufuian> Yes.
05:42:56  <GhostlyDeath> the oil pumps are gone!
05:43:06  <GhostlyDeath> =/
05:43:14  <TruePikachu> GhostlyDeath: You sure are no Rocketfeller
05:43:24  <TruePikachu> Or w/e his name is
05:43:49  <TruePikachu> You've been having problems ever since I left to have supper
05:43:50  <GhostlyDeath> Never heard of him
05:44:03  <GhostlyDeath> My oil industry collapsed
05:44:08  <TruePikachu> Oh, he was some American guy who completly controled an oil industry
05:44:10  <GhostlyDeath> There's no oil on the map anywhere
05:44:21  <TruePikachu> LOL, you sure are not him!
05:44:28  <GhostlyDeath> Time to sell my oil tankers and oil boat
05:44:47  <TruePikachu> ^^ which made your trucks get negitive income at one point
05:45:42  <Xrufuian> Pika: There are only two signal aspects: Proced under cab signaling, and Absoute stop (Danger). (Although, Metro seems to posibly have three.)
05:45:42  <GhostlyDeath> The goods trucks got negative income
05:45:53  <GhostlyDeath> I got 33k liters of oil remaining in a truck, time to rid of it
05:46:50  <GhostlyDeath> Cost me  to transfer the last of the oil
05:47:56  * TruePikachu has 19 oil-producing industries :)
05:48:25  <Xrufuian> In the speed-based system, trains are expected to come across others at restricted speed (15 mph).
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05:49:43  <GhostlyDeath> I have zero oil producing undustries
05:49:57  <GhostlyDeath> Any possibility of any more in the late 1960s?
05:49:59  * TruePika isn't even in the oil business
05:50:11  <TruePika> IDK, this is 1958
05:50:20  <TruePika> I have 10 years to go
05:51:05  <GhostlyDeath> Would rigs ever appear out of nowhere?
05:51:15  <TruePika> Yes, but only in water
05:51:28  <TruePika> I've gotten them in the 70s, if that's what you're wondering
05:51:29  <Xrufuian> That is called permissive signaling. Metrolink has lots of permissive signals along the line through Soledad Canyon. Those are denoted with a grade plate, but there are other ways that in may be defined.
05:52:14  <TruePika> Xrufuian: Yes, I know what the difference between absolute and permissive signalling is
05:52:16  <GhostlyDeath> i just payed off my 0,000 loan very fast
05:53:19  <Xrufuian> But do you know how it all corallates in the big melting pot of the entire railroads?
05:54:03  <Xrufuian> (The "BNSF way" doesn't matter)
05:54:10  <TruePika> No
05:54:27  <Xrufuian> That's what I'mgetting at.
05:54:31  <GhostlyDeath> my 591mph plane is only going 20mph
05:54:34  <TruePika> But I'm working on OTTD right now. I just wish there was permissive in OTTD
05:54:40  <GhostlyDeath> 200*
05:54:46  <TruePika> GhostlyDeath: is it taxi
05:54:54  <TruePika> nvm
05:55:10  <TruePika> That happens too often; I have no idea what causes it
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05:55:17  <Xrufuian> Permissive signaling would likely be a nightmere in programing.
05:55:17  <GhostlyDeath> it's on fire
05:55:24  <TruePika> Oh, breakdown
05:55:30  <TruePika> That explains it
05:55:30  <GhostlyDeath> it's the only plane in the sky
05:55:42  <GhostlyDeath> now it's super speedy
05:55:45  <TruePika> Uhh...9/11 anyone?
05:56:02  <GhostlyDeath> Damn, that plane came quite close to a house
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05:56:15  <GhostlyDeath> The airport is in a kind of valley
05:56:28  <GhostlyDeath> So the plane gets very close to the hills
05:56:42  <TruePikachu> Uhhh...sounds like plane #4 from 9/11
05:57:00  <TruePikachu> Crashed in a field instead of a building
05:57:16  <Xrufuian> I don't recall one of the flight numbers being #4...
05:57:20  <GhostlyDeath> It barely misses a tree also
05:57:24  <TruePikachu> :P crash #4
05:57:34  <TruePikachu> I forget the flight numbers
05:58:16  <TruePikachu> Did the plane land?
05:58:28  <Xrufuian> I'd recon' the pilot's lunch isn't agreeing with their stomach.
05:58:40  <TruePikachu> lol
05:59:17  <Xrufuian> I know that I'd have trouble in that case...
05:59:43  <TruePikachu> Too bad you can't type 'P', in FS, that would help
05:59:55  <TruePikachu> s/first ,/;
06:00:17  <GhostlyDeath> Hopefully drug usage stops once the 60s are over
06:00:23  <GhostlyDeath> Spring of 69
06:00:49  <TruePikachu> It's like, on the year 1970, the newspaper thing comes up:
06:01:08  <TruePikachu> "Drug Overlords Stopped By <Company name>"
06:01:30  <TruePikachu> The body mentions that the overlords depended on oil
06:01:43  <GhostlyDeath> What is "Gaint Screenshot"?
06:01:58  <Xrufuian> It's a screenshot of the entire map.
06:02:03  <TruePikachu> "Giant Screenshot" is a screenshot of the ENTIRE map
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06:02:33  <GhostlyDeath> Zoomed in?
06:02:50  <TruePikachu> I think so, maybe a middle zoom
06:03:25  <TruePikachu> It is HUGE; save beforehand, and don't stop the game when it freezes for quite a bit
06:03:42  <Xrufuian> No, but something like Z2 level. (assuming the closest is Z0)
06:03:55  <Xrufuian> Not nessarly.
06:04:08  <Xrufuian> Depends on the map size.
06:04:32  <TruePikachu> :P obviously...
06:04:35  <Xrufuian> Over 512 square is a bad idea.
06:04:40  <GhostlyDeath> It made a closest possible zoom map
06:04:46  <GhostlyDeath> PNG ends up being 2.2MB
06:04:56  <Xrufuian> What size map?
06:05:36  <TruePikachu> And 8bpp or 32bpp?
06:06:25  <Xrufuian> 32-bit is not realy that prelvent.
06:06:43  <TruePikachu> But some guys here use it
06:07:02  <GhostlyDeath> I just cloned a goods cargo ship, made 4 of them
06:07:08  <GhostlyDeath> There was 1000 goods waiting at the doc
06:07:31  <TruePikachu> ?! why'd you clone? How much can the ship hold?
06:07:42  <Xrufuian> Ya, some. But think, there's thousands of players...
06:08:08  <GhostlyDeath> 160
06:08:31  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: Don't assume that GhostlyDeath doesn't use 32bit
06:09:05  <TruePikachu> GhostlyDeath: I don't think there are 160 players :P And I don't think you have enough ships if that was 160 goods/ship
06:09:32  <GhostlyDeath> 160 boxes of goods gives me roughly k
06:09:40  <GhostlyDeath> It is 160 goods a ship
06:09:43  <GhostlyDeath> Moving at 15mph
06:09:50  <GhostlyDeath> I got 6 or 7 ships
06:09:54  <TruePikachu> Lol @ 15mph
06:10:17  <GhostlyDeath> no
06:10:18  <GhostlyDeath> make that 9
06:10:29  <TruePikachu> 9 ships, or 9mph?
06:10:37  <GhostlyDeath> ( ships
06:10:38  <GhostlyDeath> 9*
06:10:43  <GhostlyDeath> They are Yate Cargo Ships
06:11:25  <GhostlyDeath> There's a giant ocean
06:11:29  <TruePikachu> @calc 160/(9*15)
06:11:29  <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: 1.18518518519
06:11:29  <Xrufuian> Well, it's time for me to go to bed.
06:12:04  <TruePikachu> Uhh...wrong thing...
06:13:04  <TruePikachu> @calc 160*9*15/100
06:13:04  <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: 216
06:13:19  <Xrufuian> Got that darn paper to write on weither I support or oppose Propisition 23. :(
06:13:21  <TruePikachu> Hmmm...I can't think in math right now
06:13:28  * Xrufuian Gibbs slaps TruePikachu...
06:13:31  <GhostlyDeath> wood made 250 goods last year
06:13:44  <GhostlyDeath> factory only made 60
06:13:53  <Xrufuian> Goodnight.
06:13:55  <GhostlyDeath> month*
06:13:56  <GhostlyDeath> cya
06:14:22  <TruePikachu> lol if factory only made 60 goods last year = 5 goods per month
06:14:55  <TruePikachu> 1 good every 6 days approx.
06:15:21  <GhostlyDeath> I got two 5x25 good trains
06:15:34  <GhostlyDeath> 25 good holding containers, and 5 of them
06:15:41  <GhostlyDeath> each on their own tracj
06:15:57  <TruePikachu> Ummm...that's too efficient for now
06:16:38  <TruePikachu> Maybe...I was just thinking 10x25
06:16:55  <GhostlyDeath> it's basically 10x25
06:17:10  * TruePikachu counts in tiles rather than cars
06:18:05  <GhostlyDeath> good production from sawmill and factory jumped
06:18:21  <GhostlyDeath> Forest is making tons of wood
06:18:26  <GhostlyDeath> Animals are breeding
06:18:49  <GhostlyDeath> across the map, they take a voyager on trucks to a dock over the sea to a dock, they either get a truck or a train
06:18:51  <TruePikachu> GhostlyDeath: You just reminded me of this bag in my science teacher's roo,
06:18:51  <GhostlyDeath> heh
06:19:03  <TruePikachu> *room
06:19:13  <GhostlyDeath> Bag?
06:19:13  <TruePikachu> "Bags of Breeding Bunnies"
06:19:25  <TruePikachu> IDK what's in it
06:19:31  <GhostlyDeath> How old are you?
06:19:34  <GhostlyDeath> Why don't you ask
06:19:44  <TruePikachu> 16, and the teacher doesn't know either
06:20:08  <TruePikachu> She doesn't have time to clean out the classroom
06:20:31  <GhostlyDeath> heh, I remember when I was 16..........
06:20:52  <GhostlyDeath> Factory is getting livestock, grains, and steel
06:21:03  <GhostlyDeath> but that sawmill is pumping out alot of goods
06:21:08  <GhostlyDeath> Too many goods for me to handle
06:22:23  <TruePikachu> Remember, forest production increases when more trees are growing
06:22:27  <GhostlyDeath> 5 boats are grabbing at goods
06:22:45  <TruePikachu> as in more trees have been cut down, so new ones are growing in their place
06:22:58  <GhostlyDeath> trees disappear
06:23:02  <GhostlyDeath> then baby trees appear
06:23:08  <TruePikachu> Yes
06:23:34  <TruePikachu> Also, forests can give out trees 10 times a month, compared to 8-9 that other industries give out
06:24:11  <TruePikachu> And sawmills usually get less traffic than factories; less industries supply
06:27:38  <GhostlyDeath> I got maybe 10-15 trucks
06:27:40  <GhostlyDeath> well, 20
06:27:45  <GhostlyDeath> a guess
06:27:47  <GhostlyDeath> I lost count
06:28:03  <GhostlyDeath> Heh, I spent half a million funding a city to add more houses
06:30:31  <GhostlyDeath> just made an aircraft take goods from the sawmill to another airport
06:31:16  <GhostlyDeath> damn, k
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06:31:28  <GhostlyDeath> didn't take long for it to transfer the stuff
06:32:57  <GhostlyDeath> takes like, a week
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06:37:52  <GhostlyDeath> Oil rigs better appear, I need that oil
06:39:07  <GhostlyDeath> Road Vehicle 36's profit last year was -6 =/
06:43:46  <GhostlyDeath> What's the point of a football stadium on a raised block surrounded almost completely by water?
06:46:42  <GhostlyDeath> I enabled a prospecting option in the menu, and now I can make oil!
06:46:50  <GhostlyDeath> but it will cost 2 million, which will be very very costly
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06:49:28  <TruePikachu> Lol @ football and RV36
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06:58:19  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:04:23  <GhostlyDeath> '73 brought me 0k
07:05:10  <KouDy> hello
07:10:08  <KouDy> a bit digging on the forum and found this thread and what graphic set is used on those screens?
07:11:18  <GhostlyDeath> Is it possible for autoreplace to upgrade the vehicle?
07:12:19  <GhostlyDeath> Or copy orders to a new vehicle?
07:12:23  <GhostlyDeath> of a different kind?
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07:24:18  <GhostlyDeath> great
07:24:20  <GhostlyDeath> plane crashed
07:24:50  <GhostlyDeath> 3 died
07:24:52  <KouDy> Ghostly you can either autorenew or autoreplace
07:24:58  <GhostlyDeath> and now everyone hates the airport
07:26:05  <KouDy> first will swap old for new (works only on same type of engine i think), second mentioned you will choose engine and anotehr one and on regular depo visits, trains will swap them
07:29:39  <KouDy> copying orders is also possible
07:29:40  <GhostlyDeath> How would I enable autoreplace?
07:30:35  <KouDy> open list of your all trains
07:30:43  <KouDy> and on bottom there is Manage List
07:30:52  <KouDy> select replace vehicles
07:31:20  <KouDy> left is "old" engine, right is "new" one
07:32:01  <GhostlyDeath> wow, thanks
07:32:52  <GhostlyDeath> I assume replacing sells the old one
07:32:55  <GhostlyDeath> buys the new one
07:33:02  <KouDy> yes
07:33:07  <GhostlyDeath> This saves replacing everyone by hand
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07:35:04  <GhostlyDeath> all the cars are speedy now
07:35:52  <GhostlyDeath> And I take it when they decide to go in for their maintenence every some days
07:35:56  <GhostlyDeath> they are upgraded
07:36:10  <KouDy> correct
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07:40:16  <GhostlyDeath> Heh, Finfingpool went crazy and planted trees on every single street
07:42:35  <GhostlyDeath> faster ships means more money
07:43:14  <V453000> more ships mean more lagged server :p
07:46:43  <GhostlyDeath> Local game
07:48:03  <GhostlyDeath> the factory is gooding the saw mill
07:51:12  <GhostlyDeath> Replacing tons of vehicles of all kinds
07:51:17  <GhostlyDeath> Spent 2 million heh
07:52:51  <GhostlyDeath> Finfingpool is growing
07:53:05  <GhostlyDeath> especially after I funded new buildings twice years ago
07:55:06  <GhostlyDeath> Woo, prospected some oil rig!
07:55:18  <GhostlyDeath> Now I have no money anymore
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07:57:16  <GhostlyDeath> It just made 320,000 liters
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08:03:04  <GhostlyDeath> Great, another plane crash with 2 dead
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08:03:34  <GecK> hi
08:03:34  <GhostlyDeath> luckily it was empty
08:03:37  <GhostlyDeath> Greetings
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08:08:40  <Alberth> hi
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08:14:37  <GhostlyDeath> KouDy: There any way to replace crashed planes automatically?
08:14:56  <V453000> dont use planes
08:14:59  <V453000> :)
08:19:28  <Alberth> GhostlyDeath: no, there is a setting to reduce crashes, I think
08:19:37  <GhostlyDeath> Hopefully boats don't sink
08:20:00  <Alberth> He, that's an idea! :p
08:21:12  <Alberth> boats are the slowest, so any tycoon will avoid them as much as possible
08:21:49  <GhostlyDeath> Yeah well, My world is mostly water
08:22:09  <V453000> you can even turn crashes off completely
08:22:09  <Alberth> nothing that some money cannot solve :)
08:22:47  <Alberth> V453000: oh, nice
08:23:01  <Alberth> technically, that is also a 'reduction' :)
08:23:53  <V453000> well using aircraft is stupid anyway :)
08:24:24  <GhostlyDeath> Need a 55mph cow truck
08:25:11  <GhostlyDeath> hopefully the oil rig does not explode
08:25:15  <GhostlyDeath> I paid 2 million to get it
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08:25:37  <Alberth> you can turn off disasters like that :)
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08:27:29  <GhostlyDeath> I based it off easy
08:27:38  <GhostlyDeath> hopefully nothing goes wrong when I eat some food
08:34:09  <KouDy> sorry i was away... no replace for plane crashes... when you go plane crashed, do to depo -> clone vehicle -> click on wreck and you have exactly same copy
08:34:17  <KouDy> except it's not crashed :)
08:35:49  <GhostlyDeath> I've done that
08:35:53  <GhostlyDeath> but I was thinking of going to sleep
08:37:01  <KouDy> does anyone use BK Enhanced Tunnels?
08:38:06  <peter1138> What about them?
08:38:36  <KouDy> i can't build track on top of entrance
08:38:46  <KouDy> and can't figure what i am doing wrong
08:39:39  <peter1138> Correct. It's just graphics.
08:40:07  <KouDy> hmmm
08:40:07  <KouDy>
08:40:13  <KouDy> check first post
08:40:32  <KouDy> and first attached screen, he does have track on top of it :)
08:40:49  <KouDy> so i need some other GRF then? on order to enable it
08:41:07  <peter1138> No. If there's track on it, then the screenshot is from TTDPatch.
08:41:37  <KouDy> hmmm i see
08:41:41  <KouDy> so it's not in OTTD
08:41:42  <KouDy> ok
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09:46:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> i can't get synergy to run...
09:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> the furthest i get is "connection timed out"
09:49:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> Running synergy: /usr/bin/synergys -f --debug INFO --name johannes-ii -c /tmp/qt_temp.h24067 --address :24800
09:49:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Running synergy: /usr/bin/synergyc -f --debug INFO --name johannes-i johanes-ii:24800
09:49:11  <Eddi|zuHause> WARNING: synergyc.cpp,265: failed to connect to server: Timed out
09:58:33  <frosch> oh no, two of them
10:02:35  <peter1138> bum
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11:11:08  <peter1138> Okay, anyone know how to fix /etc/rcS.d on a Debian system?
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11:18:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> seems to work now that i switched around client and server
11:18:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> no idea whz
11:19:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> silly
11:19:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's now using english keyboard layout
11:25:12  <V453000> hmm why are lost trains going against the back of 1way PBS? :/
11:26:59  * V453000 pokes Eddi
11:27:05  <Rubidium> because those are safe waiting places
11:27:17  <Rubidium> and it goes to the first one it can find
11:27:21  <V453000> well yes but why that
11:27:53  <Rubidium> because, apparantly, someone complained about them not being safe waiting places
11:27:54  <V453000> from the gameplay view it only ruins it
11:28:10  <V453000> well I wonder what reasons the someone had for that :)
11:28:48  <V453000> it is quite easy to get lost trains :|
11:29:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the point. it shouldn't be so easy to get lost trains.
11:30:18  <V453000> umm
11:30:30  <V453000> so it is intentional to make PBS unoperational?
11:31:29  <V453000> or just to make people try to reduce their lost train count?
11:32:27  <V453000> with the older PBS even lost trains had quite a good chance to "find themselves"
11:32:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> V453000: no, it is intentional to prefer non-lost trains find the right routes instead of lost trains finding their non-existent path back
11:33:25  <V453000> that worked even before, didnt it?
11:34:49  <Rubidium> V453000:
11:35:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... a dozen people saying they have the same problem as me, and the only solution they could find was calling "setxkbmap de" manually
11:35:27  <Rubidium> V453000:
11:35:36  <V453000> Rubidium: yes, that is exactly what I am talking about ... but that is just wrongly built (3803)
11:36:14  <Rubidium> V453000: it first fixes an inconsistency of the 3430 bugfix
11:36:18  <V453000> 3430 is odd indeed but that happened to me even without PBS
11:36:21  <Rubidium> s/it first/the first/
11:36:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> V453000: that is an almost verbatim copy of a newbie problem i encountered
11:36:47  <Rubidium> in any case, lost trains are lost. They may mess up massively just because they're lost
11:37:27  <V453000> but why couldnt they continue along the rails as would make sense and instead bump at the least expected location?
11:37:34  <V453000> (back of 1way)
11:37:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> V453000: if "we" fix your lost train problem one way or the other, a dozen people will come here to complain that their layout broke.
11:37:59  <V453000> then they built wrong
11:38:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> V453000: that's why we don't even try
11:38:02  <Rubidium> V453000: because that makes the pathfinders much more complex
11:38:50  <Rubidium> the same happens, by the way, with lost trains and presignals
11:39:07  <V453000> that trains go into 1way? or into eol?
11:39:12  <V453000> that is solve-able
11:39:24  <Rubidium> that trains lock up the network
11:39:38  <Rubidium> maybe it can be solved, but at what cost, i.e. what complexity?
11:39:44  <V453000> almost none
11:40:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> "/lib/modules/fglrx/build_mod/2.6.x/kcl_ioctl.c:196:5: error: implicit declaration of function ‘compat_alloc_user_space’" ... doesn't sound good
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11:40:12  <Rubidium> V453000: then where's the patch
11:40:37  <V453000> sec.
11:41:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> V453000: constraints: your patch shouldn't break either of the two layouts above
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11:41:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> because those are valid non-lost layouts
11:43:08  <V453000> why do you need patch for it
11:43:24  <V453000> the previous thing worked fine
11:43:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> without a patch, nothing changes. obviously.
11:43:37  <V453000> of course
11:43:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> V453000: it did not. hence the two bug reports
11:43:48  <V453000> which are weird or wrong
11:44:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> they may be "weird", but they still are valid
11:44:29  <V453000> seriously, 3803 is obviously not
11:44:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> obviously someone built it. and the exact same layout without path signals works.
11:45:30  <V453000> sure
11:45:37  <V453000> but the 2way path signals arent really normal
11:45:42  <V453000> or they dont behave that way
11:46:09  <V453000> when you have the terminus with PBS, people often use the 2ways in front of platforms too
11:47:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> seriously... RoRo stations are very common.
11:47:32  <V453000> umm
11:48:00  <V453000> I was just pointing out at similar way how people build
11:48:13  <V453000> and the same thing is a point of this bug report
11:48:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> and off the top of my head i remember at least three independent instances where people had misbehaving trains that could be reduced to this exact layout
11:49:00  <V453000> ?
11:49:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> "pbs signalled roro station with depot behind station"
11:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> => trains don't find path out of depot
11:50:05  <V453000> yes
11:50:14  <V453000> because the 2ways in the end make no sense
11:50:43  <Rubidium> the point of FS#3803 is that the pathfinder (as per FS#3430) finds the path, but it fails to reserves the path
11:50:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, they do. because trains need to reach the station from the depot
11:51:07  <Rubidium> i.e. the pathfinder and the path reserver where out-of-sync
11:51:32  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause2: why would you have the depot behind the station then
11:51:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> not "i". "the people"
11:51:58  <V453000> anyone
11:52:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> there is no "why" in this bug report. there is "it's possible"
11:52:44  <V453000> well yes but a solution in terms of different building is quite intentional and makes sense
11:52:54  <V453000> whereas the result behaviour by changing the code doesnt
11:53:09  <Ammler> FS#3803 is indeed a bug of eddi :-)
11:53:12  <Alberth> to you it makes sense, others think otherwise, obviously
11:54:21  <V453000> Alberth: the point is that you can eliminate "their problem" with correct building, but in my problem, you could get lost trains basically anytime
11:54:23  <Ammler> it is stupid to make a path of the backside of a oneway signal
11:54:45  <Rubidium> V453000: as I said, FS#3803 *is* about the pathfinder and pathreserver not being in sync. Regardless of whether that layout makes sense, the pathfinder and pathreserver aren't in sync and as such they fail. Thus the fix of FS#3803 has NOTHING to do with that SPECIFIC layout, but with the fact that the pathfinder and pathreserver aren't in sync. Have I already mentioned that the pathfinder and pathreserver weren't in sync? I guess not, so: the pathfinder and p
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11:55:26  <Ammler> Rubidium: but why does it fix 3803?
11:55:36  <V453000> ye :(
11:55:40  <Ammler> as 3803 isn't a valid bugreport
11:56:20  <Rubidium> Ammler: because the PATHFINDER says that the back of a one-way path signal IS a SAFE waiting point, as per fracking FS#3430
11:56:52  <Ammler> then you should fix that and not make it worse :-P
11:57:50  <Alberth> V453000: if you build sufficient tracks, trains do not get lost, and the whole problem disappears. So how is 'their' problem fixable by correct building, and yours not?
11:58:17  <V453000> well for example have a depot for autoreplace where it isnt able to access anything on the network
11:58:24  <V453000> anything/everything
11:58:32  <V453000> and PBS signal nearby
11:58:37  <V453000> you are done :)
11:58:43  <Rubidium> Ammler: what can be fixed differently when the pathfinder is right and the path reserver is wrong, causing FS#3803, and you fix the pathreserver to do what the pathfinder does
11:59:06  <Alberth> V453000: so fix your network
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11:59:28  <V453000> Alberth: still, why does it do the least understandable thing :p
12:00:01  <V453000> my networks are ok and I dont even use PBS signals, so dont tell me ;)
12:00:16  <Katje> for the idiot in the corner: PBS signals??
12:00:34  <V453000> path based signals
12:00:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> Katje: path signals [the two signals on the right of the signal gui]
12:00:37  <V453000> the last 2 in the gui
12:00:42  <Katje> aaah
12:00:46  <Rubidium> V453000: lost trains chose the first safe waiting point in path signaled areas, and otherwise the first track
12:01:03  * Katje has seen no major bugs in them...
12:01:13  <Rubidium> so it's actually slightly smarter for path signaled areas than it is for non-path signaled areas
12:01:16  <Ammler> Rubidium: the bug is that the pathfinder thinks, the backside of oneway signal is a save waiting place
12:01:20  <V453000> Rubidium: they tend to rather prefer the back of the 1way from my experience
12:01:28  <Rubidium> Ammler: FS#3430...
12:01:50  <Rubidium> it came from Ingo, so it's probably used on your beloved #openttdcoop servers
12:02:14  <V453000> its not actually
12:02:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: the back of a one way signal _is_ as safe a wating place as the end of a line
12:02:49  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause, yes, but it doesn't bahave like end of line
12:02:59  <Ammler> as it doesn't turn around automatically
12:03:05  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause2: how could it be a waiting place when it cant go there
12:03:06  <Ammler> hmm, maybe that is the fix?
12:04:14  <V453000> Rubidium: in our #openttdcoop games we can just use pre-signals for intenionally lost trains, but on our .stable servers newbies have quite frequently trouble with this "safe locations" thingy
12:04:32  <V453000> so im rather talking for them than for our beloved
12:05:01  <Ammler> well, I also sadly see, that we almost never use pbs anymore :-(
12:05:09  <V453000> Ammler: one of the reasons
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12:05:40  <Rubidium> V453000: <- lost trains ignoring exit signals...
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12:06:09  <Ammler> but if trains would turn around on the back of oneway signal, that could fix it
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12:06:40  <V453000> Ammler: they turn around there but they just dont stop coming there and back
12:07:08  <Ammler> ah
12:07:27  <Ammler> because stupid pathfinder thinks there is a way there :-)
12:07:55  <V453000> exactly
12:08:24  <Ammler> that is a new problem, I can't remember such behavior
12:09:09  <V453000> Rubidium: Test 1_2.sav
12:09:17  <V453000> Ammler: yes, that is caused by the "fix"
12:11:01  <V453000> Rubidium: I know it isnt very "intentional", especially for people who dont know about it but it can be solved, where the PBS "deadlock" cant
12:13:50  <Ammler> and 3803 does only solve lazyness of Eddi ;-)
12:14:03  <V453000> indeed :)
12:14:15  <Rubidium> no, it *solves* the DESYNC between the PATHFINDER and PATHRESERVER
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12:15:40  <V453000> nice. :)
12:16:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: 3803 is really not about my own layout.
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12:20:43  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20891 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#4145]: Measurement tooltips for docks and tunnels were closed after a hover event.
12:21:40  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause2: but that ticket made the whole worse, Rubi fixed it from the "wrong side"
12:22:27  <Ammler> if fixing it right isn't possible, then it would have been better to note that in knonw_bugs.txt :-)
12:22:52  <V453000> good point
12:23:52  <Ammler> I never had an issue about desync with pathfinder and pathreserver, as I wasn't aware there are 2 different things yet.
12:24:58  <Ammler> but now I see, why people don't use pbs anymore on our servers
12:26:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> the "desync" is because the pathfinder only cares from current location to next station, while the pathreserver adds another step from station to next safe waiting point
12:27:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the inconsistency was that a back of a one way signal, a back of a one way pbs signal, and end of line were each treated differently
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12:28:16  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause2: and how does that effect gameplay, seems only incositence in "nice code"
12:28:23  <Rubidium> oh for crying out loud... I have not fixed either FS#3430 *nor* FS#3803. So how in frack's name can I have fixed it from the wrong side?
12:29:01  <Ammler> ah sorry, was in my head, because oyu mentioned the desync
12:29:04  <Rubidium> furthermore, lost trains are already known to make wrong choices, so making *them* make more wrong choices so valid layouts work is IMO entirely the right choice
12:29:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's exactly what i said. but they don't believe me.
12:29:30  <Rubidium> after all, they are lost and thus go to random places regardless of whether it makes sense or not
12:29:53  <Ammler> Rubidium: but if lost trains can't find their ways anymore, then there is no good reason to keep those, then you could send those to depot or such
12:30:20  <Rubidium> Ammler: and then get a complaint from you that your unordered train stuff doesn't work anymore?
12:30:31  <Rubidium> oh right... this complaint is already about that I reckon
12:31:05  <Rubidium> you're getting a news message about the fact that your train is lost every X amount of time
12:31:21  <Ammler> hehe, you can't play with news on a coop server :-)
12:31:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: trains already do go to depots if they can find their way back through them
12:31:42  <Rubidium> making it go to a depot just makes stuff more fucked up as then people start to complain trains magically go to depots
12:32:23  <Rubidium> instead of being stuck somewhere in the network in a lost state, which *we* can more easily diagnose than the reason why the train went to the depot 20 years ago
12:32:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: and if they don't find the way back through them, it wouldn't make any sense either. they would just hop back and forth between two depots
12:32:51  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause2: send and stop
12:33:31  <Rubidium> even then, there are many people playing with depots unreachable for trains
12:33:43  <Ammler> Rubidium: it is just said, you use "code cleanup" reason to change gameplay
12:33:45  <Rubidium> thus not solving the problem
12:34:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: there was no "code cleanup" reason
12:34:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> where the hell did you read that?
12:34:32  <Ammler> fixing the desync wasn't a issue for gameplay
12:34:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes. it was. examples for gameplay are in the bug reports
12:35:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> those are very valid and very simple layouts. just accept it.
12:35:27  <Ammler> stuck the train in depot is valid there
12:36:51  <Ammler> as V453000 said, that problem is fixeable with another layout, but the issue we got with the fix isn't anymore
12:36:57  <Ammler> only by not using pbs
12:37:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> [03.10.2010 13:52] <Rubidium> i.e. the pathfinder and the path reserver where out-of-sync
12:37:16  <Alberth> or by using sane track layouts, I think
12:37:33  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: does that say the clients are out of sync, or the client and server are out of sync?
12:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> reboot...
12:37:51  <Rubidium> no... just that two components do not agree with eachother on what is right and what isn't right
12:37:55  <Ammler> Alberth: a lost train can't leave a terminus station anymore
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12:38:05  <Ammler> how do you fix that?
12:38:13  <Alberth> Ammler: the train should not be able to get lost
12:38:13  <Rubidium> Ammler: it can, just on one track it doesn't
12:39:08  <Rubidium> but then... with FS#1473 lost trains can lock up a terminus station completely whereas with PBS that doesn't happen, just a few platforms
12:40:41  <Rubidium> in any case, FS#3803 is because the PATHFINDER considered the back of a one way path signal as a safe waiting point (since the bugfix of FS#3430) and the PATHRESERVER considered it not to be a safe waiting point, i.e. they are not in sync about what is and what isn't a safe waiting point. The bugfix of FS#3803 fixes that problem.
12:41:11  <Rubidium> that is breaks the accidental not-so-bad behaviour of lost trains is besides the point
12:41:59  <Rubidium> in any case, V453000 has had 3600 times a sec and still hasn't shown a fix for the problem...
12:42:09  <Rubidium> proving it's far from trivial to fix this issue
12:43:19  <Rubidium> also... the back of a normal one way signal is considered end-of-line, so why shouldn't that hold for a one-way path signal?
12:43:51  <Ammler> how is end-of-line a secure waiting place for path?
12:43:57  <Ammler> there is no path after all anymore
12:44:23  <Rubidium> Ammler: hmm, you want all end-of-lines to not be a safe waiting point?
12:44:36  <Ammler> hehe
12:44:37  <Rubidium> fine by me... would solve your terminus problem pretty well
12:45:23  <Rubidium> as trains won't be entering the terminus station anymore because all platforms are end-of-lines
12:45:26  <frosch> that also fixes the unrealistic reversing of trains
12:45:37  <Ammler> end-of-line and backside of oneway signal isn't the same
12:46:17  <Ammler> maybe that could be fixed?
12:46:34  <Ammler> or does that break something else again?
12:46:56  <Rubidium> then a hybrid station, which allows trains to enter from both directions but only let them leave one way
12:48:25  <Ammler> could be made with 2 signals
12:48:49  <Ammler> <..............<>
12:49:06  <Rubidium> Ammler: what signals are those? One way?
12:49:27  <Rubidium> in any case, that wouldn't solve the issue
12:49:49  <Rubidium> or at least not with lost trains and path signals
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12:50:47  <Rubidium> as the lost train will just happily try to reserve the path where it doesn't have to turn, which is fine as there's a path signal going the wrong way (just so the platform became a safe waiting point), and now the lost train will be waiting indefinitely for a free path in the incorrect direction
12:51:28  <Eddi|zuHause> soo... why would installing the fglrx driver freeze X on startup?
12:51:47  <Rubidium> probably because you don't have the fglrx kernel module
12:51:51  <Eddi|zuHause> freeze as in "screen goes black, and nothing happens anymore"
12:52:07  <Eddi|zuHause> no sign of errors at the end of Xorg.0.log
12:52:25  <Rubidium> or because the KMS radeon driver was loaded and then trying to use the fglrx driver
12:52:43  <Ammler> Rubidium: then maybe lost trains should get a path at least 2 signals wide?
12:52:51  <Ammler> or does that sound hackish?
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12:53:48  <Rubidium> Ammler: wouldn't solve the problem; it'll just wait longer, or find a path to the EOL and back into the platform
12:55:16  <Ammler> he, I can remember, we had the issue with block signals and then the solution was to use pbs
12:55:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no sign of KMS radeon stuff since i installed fglrx
12:57:45  <Rubidium> in any case... you can't both fix lost trains and fs3430/fs3803, so I guess you want some setting to make lost trains not so stupid and make unlost trains sometimes fail to find a path vs. keep lost trains stupid and make unlost trains actually find their path
12:58:12  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: is fglrx loaded?
12:58:19  <Rubidium> (the kernel module)
12:58:28  <Rubidium> is it the same version as the xorg driver?
12:58:35  <Eddi|zuHause> <- sounds like my problem
12:58:44  <Rubidium> is the right version, the one from AMD, of libdrm loaded?
12:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: "modprobe fglrx" showed no errors
13:00:35  <frosch> and "dmesg" ?
13:02:55  <Ammler> Rubidium: then maybe a setting "send lost trains to depot" would suffice
13:04:01  <Rubidium> but... that doesn't help in your let trains roam the network without orders approach...
13:04:02  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch: nothing out of the ordinary
13:04:23  <Ammler> Rubidium: yes, that is why it should be a setting :-)
13:04:46  <Ammler> oh well
13:05:25  <Rubidium> in any case, sending lost trains to the depot is, as I explained before, in my opinion a much bigger issue than trains actively showing they're lost
13:05:27  <Ammler> for me, it is still stupid a train prefers backside of oneway signal
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13:06:06  <Ammler> maybe that could get a penalty value?
13:06:13  <Hirundo> agreed, I've had many jams because of that 'feature'
13:06:18  <Rubidium> Ammler: it does not "prefer" anything. A lost train's pathfinder just takes the first route it can take regardless of the consequences
13:06:23  <Ammler> which is useless for lost trains :-)
13:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: you could try putting more randomness in the behaviour of lost trains
13:07:04  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: that would break again the self managing networks
13:07:23  <Ammler> (I guess)
13:07:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: so what? that is just abusing an undocumented feature anyway
13:08:09  <Ammler> :-)
13:08:38  <Hirundo> At least, lost trains may try to find e.g. the cheapest route that takes them (train length) squares further without a dead end
13:08:54  <Rubidium> in any case... if you want it fixed, write a patch and let michi review it or find a way to trick michi into writing the patch for you
13:09:21  <Rubidium> I'm definitely not going to touch the path reservation stuff
13:11:41  <Ammler> is it a hack, if lost trains only don't drive into backside of signal?
13:12:00  <Ammler> sounds doable :-)
13:13:17  <Ammler> or is it possible to differ between lost trains and trains without orders
13:16:57  <peter1138> arrrrrrg
13:17:11  <peter1138> what creates the symlinks in /etc/rcS.d?
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13:18:25  <peter1138> on debian
13:18:26  <peter1138> :s
13:21:46  <Ammler> no chkconfig?
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13:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> seems when i boot without XEN, it works...
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13:35:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> at least i get "OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc." in glxinfo
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14:14:02  <ccfreak2k> Soon to be AMD Systems Inc probably.
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14:41:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think i got my card to tune correctly now...
14:42:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> not sure what was wrong, but i messed a little with the cable connector...
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14:53:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> now... why don't i have sound in kaffeine?
14:56:40  <__ln__> it's trying to protect you from the dubbing
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15:03:29  <Ammler> use subtitles
15:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm having an awful lot of "tuning failed" still...
15:04:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> just not every time...
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15:42:30  <frosch> since when is the industry gui resizeable? :p
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15:49:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20892 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix (maybe r10624): Scenario editor resp. cheat-buttons to alter industry production did not work for large industry windows.
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16:43:48  <b_jonas> (Am browsing the junctions in the wiki for ideas on how to fix this dual line to three terminuses junction.)
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17:38:23  <hmpf> mornin folks
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17:44:06  <b_jonas> morning
17:44:46  <hmpf> i'm impressed with all the folks in here :)  whoda thunk there were this many TTD addicts out there
17:44:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20893 /trunk/src/lang/ (finnish.txt spanish.txt):
17:44:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:44:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
17:44:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 36 changes by Terkhen
17:46:14  <hmpf> well, i'll toss my query out, and see what it drags up....
17:47:26  <hmpf> anyone lose the base airplanes set in the new 1.04 version?  i'm missing all the nice Dinger 1000 planes in the new aircraft
17:47:46  <hmpf> but the world aircraft set works great
17:49:14  <Alberth> currently playing a patched trunk without other NewGRF, and I have a Dinger 1000
17:49:32  <hmpf> hmm
17:49:46  <hmpf> what aircraft packages do you have loaded?
17:49:56  <Alberth> none
17:50:09  <davis> :P
17:50:12  <hmpf> (if I unload my WAS i end up with an empty "new aircraft" menu)
17:50:27  <Alberth> if you have, those NewGRFs can remove other aircraft
17:50:27  <hmpf> oh.. "without other NewGRF" sorry
17:51:09  <Alberth> unload (or load) in a running game is not adviced, it gives all kinds of weird effects :)
17:51:32  <hmpf> yeah... i've noticed that but took the risk anyway... and now i'm payin for it
17:51:54  <hmpf> it's not terrible, everything else works, i just miss my supersonic aircraft delivering goods all over the place
17:52:03  <hmpf> they're all 40+years right now
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17:53:14  <Alberth> hmm, those Dinger 1000 look like battle cruisers, big and bulky :)
17:53:35  <hmpf> yeah but i make m per run with them
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17:53:44  <hmpf> er... £4m
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17:58:47  <hmpf> and everyone needs a good battle cruiser in a good economics game anyway :)
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18:02:51  <Ammler> finally back :-)
18:03:48  <V453000> ^_^
18:12:07  <hmpf> okay... more iterations and a new cfg file, i think i've got why the airplanes disappeared
18:12:46  <hmpf> av8 1.7 when loaded within the game (not recommended, i know) and then un-loaded... seems to obliterate the base aircraft definitions
18:13:04  <hmpf> and all you get are "invalid aircraft type"
18:14:23  <hmpf> and the world aircraft set removes the base aircraft set altogether
18:16:17  <hmpf> but the base set and av8 1.501 don't fight
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18:20:16  <hmpf> oh well... it was time for a new world anyway.. thanks Alberth for listenin
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19:06:01  <b_jonas> oh, not more Boeings: I'm buying my first Dinger 200
19:07:40  <demanufacture> you are using boeings?
19:07:50  <demanufacture> i'm always using Darvin
19:07:57  <demanufacture> Darvin 500 or 600
19:08:18  <demanufacture> are you*
19:08:28  <V453000> boeing is only in newgrfs afaik
19:08:38  <b_jonas> Darwin 300 is the boeing
19:09:05  <b_jonas> the plane with the largest capacity
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19:09:11  <b_jonas> double-decker
19:09:24  <b_jonas> until the modern Dinger comes out
19:09:49  <b_jonas> I think I fixed this train junction now, so now I'll have to wait for a few years and see if it works well and debug any problems
19:10:33  <demanufacture> darwin 300 has nice cappacity but its breaking very often
19:10:48  <demanufacture> i prefer darwin 600
19:11:01  <b_jonas> the problem is, because it's dual tracked, and each track is connected to each terminus, if there's a problem at one connection (like a reversed signal) I might not even find it because the trains just chose the other route.
19:11:11  <b_jonas> I'll have to look carefully whether the trains use all routes
19:12:17  <b_jonas> yes, my eight Darwin 300 have very low reliability now
19:13:44  <b_jonas> oh, apparently this is my _second_ Dinger 200, only I bought the other one in RL summer when I last played this game, and I don't remember everything.
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19:17:31  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20894 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4148] (r20772): use correct company name for group window title (sbr)
19:21:01  <b_jonas> there are some bad traffic jams in the lines I fixed
19:21:19  <b_jonas> some train even had to go to the wrong way
19:21:28  <b_jonas> maybe I should add some way they can circle?
19:22:28  <b_jonas> or better, I should rebuild the same to maglev -- it's now electric in 2025
19:24:26  <b_jonas> right, that's what I'll do. sell all trains, convert lines to maglev, buy trains again
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19:31:07  <Alberth> adding some points where trains can turn is quite useful, as are building junctions such that a train can go in every direction it may wish
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19:39:40  <andythenorth_> evening
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19:53:12  <TruePikachu> GhostlyDeath: Did you get oil back?
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20:02:27  <b_jonas> why doesn't it let me build a larger train station here?
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20:06:32  <b_jonas> I'm trying to widen the train station to 4 platforms here but the game complains about flat land required:
20:07:06  <b_jonas> why is it saying that? it seems to me that it could build the station because each square is at least partially on the right level
20:07:40  <b_jonas> I'm using v1.0.4
20:08:43  <davis> you can't build a station on the last tile
20:08:54  <davis> at least not one going |
20:09:05  <davis> one going -- would be possible , but that's not the goal I suppose
20:10:23  <Rubidium> yep, the northeastern most tile you can't build a rail parallel to the rest of the station on
20:10:47  <b_jonas> ah, that makes sense
20:11:50  <b_jonas> then either I have to try to extend the station to the NW instead, or move the airport a tile to the NE if that fails
20:11:51  <davis> that's what I ment to say :D
20:12:25  <Rubidium> or... lower the station 1 tile
20:12:34  <Rubidium> or only that one platform
20:12:50  <b_jonas> oh, lower just one platform? I didn't think of that
20:12:51  <Rubidium> after all, the platforms don't need to be at the same level
20:12:59  <b_jonas> good idea, thanks
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20:29:30  <b_jonas> I've done both extensions now so the station now has five platforms, one lowered
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20:40:23  <Terkhen> good night
20:42:26  <Rubidium> night to you as well
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20:48:52  <b_jonas> night
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20:51:05  <Fixer> hello, quick question: i got station where various goods been dropped by Autos (little distances) and then my train pickups it... but when, for example, it transports in other's map end to the industry i got MINUS (animals -> factory). What's wrong with it? o_0
20:51:52  <Ammler> are you sure, the "total" is negative?
20:52:00  <Rubidium> Fixer:
20:52:12  <Fixer> when train arrives it signs in red -  000 o_0
20:52:14  <Fixer> ok
20:52:17  <Ammler> hehe, wow like FAQ :-)
20:52:19  <Fixer> thank you
20:52:36  <Fixer> yes like that
20:57:21  <Chris_Booth> evening all
20:58:20  <Fixer> hello
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22:14:42  <GhostlyDeath> How can I build more airports when they refuse to let me to build more airports?
22:16:41  <Chris_Booth> GhostlyDeath: there is a plane limit set
22:16:51  <Chris_Booth> if you are playing in single play you can increase it
22:17:11  <GhostlyDeath> Can I move boats under bridges?
22:17:22  <Chris_Booth> if you are playing in Multi Player you can ask for more
22:17:27  <Chris_Booth> yes you can
22:17:31  <Chris_Booth> but why would you want to?
22:19:09  <GhostlyDeath> Can I create lakes?
22:19:33  <GhostlyDeath> And I got a station with tons of truck stops and trains but I can't see to add a dock to it
22:19:47  <Xaroth> yes you can
22:19:54  <Xaroth> but seriously, boats are crap :p
22:20:08  <Xaroth> trains, planes and trucks, in that order mostly.
22:20:41  <Xaroth> though planes make truckloads of money when used 'properly'.
22:21:11  <Chris_Booth> trains are most useful, planes make most money
22:21:20  <Chris_Booth> trucks are useful in tight spaces
22:21:31  <Chris_Booth> and boats just look nice parked in docks
22:21:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> the thing that would make ships useful is: don't make the price for goods like coal or iron ore dependent on speed
22:22:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> so you would not waste your precious rail space for these goods
22:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> road vehicles would be too small
22:22:35  <GhostlyDeath> My new dock doesn't seem to want to be paired with this other station
22:22:54  <Chris_Booth> 100% agree Eddi|zuHause none perishable goods should be not time sensitive so boats could be used
22:22:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> too far away or you already have a dock
22:23:17  <GhostlyDeath> Woods has trains and truck stops
22:23:23  <GhostlyDeath> all over the place, it's huge
22:23:30  <GhostlyDeath> Docks has trains, trucks, and boats
22:23:52  <GecK> good night
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22:24:10  <GhostlyDeath> Can't build the dock right next to the text saying stuff
22:24:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> GhostlyDeath: check the "station spread"
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22:27:44  <GhostlyDeath> I got two stations each with 1000 crates of goods
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22:34:52  <GhostlyDeath> is there any documention on how to use one way train signals?
22:35:05  <GhostlyDeath> I have two tracks converging into one
22:35:13  <GhostlyDeath> then splitting into two
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22:40:02  <GhostlyDeath> The trains just stop at the one way sign
22:40:05  <GhostlyDeath> and reverse direction
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22:41:42  <GhostlyDeath> I got paid to destroy land, that was a first
22:43:28  <GhostlyDeath> Does trains load if they don't fit into the station?
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22:49:25  <GhostlyDeath> Train is having difficulties, It tries going downa  track with a train
22:51:47  <GhostlyDeath> trains just crashed
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22:54:58  <GhostlyDeath> heh, this 2048x2048 is some map
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22:57:22  <GhostlyDeath> Ctrl+G is creating a 131k by 65k image
22:59:09  <Ammler> GhostlyDeath: do you have questions or do you just Twitter?
22:59:22  <GhostlyDeath> I don't twitter
22:59:35  <GhostlyDeath> don'y MySpace or Facebook either
22:59:52  <Ammler> well, how do you call your comments here?
23:00:14  <GhostlyDeath> IRC
23:01:02  <Ammler> :-) ok
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23:22:11  <Rubidium> Ammler: just unsubscribe from his "twitter" channel
23:22:40  <Ammler> Rubidium: you mean /part :-)
23:23:10  <Ammler> ah, or /ignore
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23:50:10  <GhostlyDeath> I prefer /part
23:50:42  <GhostlyDeath> Ammler: Is there something wrong with taking an interest in OpenTTD?
23:51:13  <Ammler> not at all, I was just wondering about your monoloque
23:51:54  <Ammler> usually you give others a bit time to answer
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23:54:22  <GhostlyDeath> Ammler: I'm just excited and addicted
23:54:52  <Ammler> nice :-)
23:55:08  <Ammler> you might try Multiplayer servers
23:56:02  <GhostlyDeath> I play for fun
23:56:11  <GhostlyDeath> Don't know if there's any for fun (no competetion) servers
23:57:53  <Ammler> #openttdcoop are
23:58:12  <Ammler> well, dunno about fun, but they are not competive ;-)
23:58:14  <GhostlyDeath> are what?
23:58:22  <GhostlyDeath> I suck at the game
23:58:25  <GhostlyDeath> AIs beat me
23:58:49  <GhostlyDeath> Usually it's build some stuff, go into another window and hope nothing goes wrong
23:59:27  <Ammler> yes, that is the only method you can lose against ai
23:59:40  <Ammler> if you play constantly, you will win quite fast

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