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00:02:22 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 00:05:03 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-41.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:09:22 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 00:14:15 <__ln__> what kind of a kingdom outsources the security of the royal family to an italian plumber? 00:19:32 <Terkhen> good night 00:19:42 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4FF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:26:18 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 00:46:17 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:57:34 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 01:02:43 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:04:45 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:07:41 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: what kind of papal entity outsources his security to some swiss guys, who haven't fought a war in 500 years? 01:20:26 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-88-189.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 01:24:00 *** ar3kaw [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 01:24:53 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:32 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:33:52 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:52:19 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:21:15 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:41:16 *** Callidus [~chatzilla@cpe-75-186-61-250.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:41:19 <Callidus> hello 02:47:24 <supermop> hi 03:17:40 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:25ff:35f8:745a:c594] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:25:28 *** ar3kaw [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:34 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 03:39:46 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08:55 <Callidus> anyone in here alive? : p 04:09:50 <supermop> i would hope that I am alive 04:38:44 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.57.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:53 <Callidus> I need a hand. I cant seem to get my switches inside my cloverleaf 4 way intersection to work (train) 05:00:17 <supermop> i might not be the best person to ask 05:00:29 <supermop> but if you show me a picture I can help 05:00:41 <supermop> i usually build more realistic junctions 05:00:46 <Callidus> like? 05:01:11 <Callidus> im honestly having a hard time wrapping my head around switches in the first place. placing all 2 ways made my train loop 05:01:54 <supermop> when you say switches, you mean like a simple branching junction? or like some kind of logic gate? 05:02:37 <Callidus> erm 05:02:41 <Callidus> the things with lights 05:02:50 <Callidus> so if a trains on it its red and stops crashes 05:03:00 <supermop> ah 05:03:03 <supermop> a signal 05:03:06 <Callidus> also i must turn off the music or lower the volume at all costs D: 05:03:57 <supermop> i usually just listen to music in itunes or on my record player while playing 05:04:21 <Callidus> how do i turn it off ingame then? 05:04:53 <Rubidium> Callidus: please show a screenshot of the junction 05:05:32 <supermop> click the little speaker icon 3rd from right on the toolbar 05:05:57 <Callidus> oh thank god... 05:06:00 <Callidus> ok. 05:06:14 <supermop> anyway 05:06:15 <Callidus> ( i love tycoon games. this one looks amazing. Wish i had picked it up as a kid. 05:06:19 <supermop> so junctions 05:06:29 <Callidus> yeah uploading a screenie 05:07:01 <supermop> if you do not understand signals yet, you may want to start with some simple flat junctions 05:07:16 <Callidus> is there a prefered site for me to load to? 05:08:00 <supermop> anywhere, but the forums could work too 05:10:51 <Callidus> what area of the forums do you want me to drop it in? 05:10:57 <Callidus> off topic, general? 05:11:22 <supermop> um rubidium, where do you think is best? general ottd? 05:12:03 <Rubidium> one of those image pastebins? 05:12:25 <Callidus> i was posting it on the forum 05:12:37 <Callidus> ill pastebin tho 05:12:42 <supermop> ok 05:15:12 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-252-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:15:50 <Callidus> a sec, ihttp://profile.imageshack.us/user/callidusdragon/ 05:16:11 <Callidus> ow. 05:16:13 <Callidus> thats... odd. 05:16:24 <Callidus> must be 2 monitor setup messing with printscreen 05:17:06 <Callidus> anyway the important part can be seen on the bottom left 05:17:16 <Callidus> http://profile.imageshack.us/user/callidusdragon/ 05:18:14 <supermop> i am going to venture that you probably do not need something that big 05:18:53 <Callidus> not yet. 05:19:01 <Callidus> : P 05:19:07 <Callidus> i prepare ahead. 05:19:30 <Rubidium> take a look at http://wiki.openttd.org/Cloverleaf to see how you should place the signals on the junction 05:19:34 <Callidus> and it would have been simpler if not for drunpool 05:19:53 *** Spoons [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:19:59 <supermop> well, first i will say that on the south side of that tunnel, the depression is not needed 05:20:50 <Callidus> i was trying to see if given more room the funnel would appear less... squashed. it didnt. 05:21:17 *** Spoons [faux@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 05:24:14 <supermop> well 05:25:35 <supermop> first things first 05:25:41 <supermop> when placing a signal 05:25:53 <supermop> click it again to switch to one-way 05:27:14 <Callidus> oh ok. 05:27:22 <Callidus> so how do i tell which way the line will go? 05:27:36 <Callidus> i take it if the lights facing one way thats the way the train will come from? 05:27:50 <supermop> if you click again, it will be one way in the opposite direction 05:27:54 <supermop> yes 05:28:07 <supermop> imagine that the driver needs to see the lights 05:29:37 <supermop> for the station entrances, 05:29:51 <supermop> ideally they should be farther away from the junction, 05:30:08 <supermop> but you will want to use a pre signal or a path signal 05:30:30 <supermop> its probably easiest to just go ahead and learn the path signals now 05:31:50 <supermop> does your signal tool show a grid of 5 signal types, or just 'signals' 05:37:19 <Callidus> 2x 12 05:37:27 <Callidus> with a selection tool that has a number 05:37:34 <Callidus> and a signal that has an arrow 05:37:44 <Callidus> 2x14 actually 05:37:50 <Callidus> 12 appear cosmetic 05:38:39 <supermop> ok 05:38:53 <supermop> well the path signals 05:39:07 <supermop> are i think the 5th and 6th maybe? 05:39:24 <supermop> not sure if yo have a new grf that is adding more types 05:40:25 <Callidus> uh oh. 05:40:32 <Callidus> the ones that look taller? 05:40:38 <Callidus> and have a green light instead? 05:40:51 <supermop> hmm 05:41:07 <Callidus> they cant be placed 2 way just one? 05:41:11 <supermop> yes 05:41:24 <supermop> one has a red sign on the back, the other does not 05:42:09 <supermop> so path signals work a little differently 05:42:24 <supermop> instead of dividing the track into blocks, 05:42:55 <supermop> they denote a tile as a safe place for a train to wait to proceed 05:43:09 <supermop> this means 05:43:20 <supermop> that on the X in front of the station 05:43:35 <Callidus> (the x was removed) 05:43:47 <supermop> you can have two trains in the junction at a tie, so long as their paths do not cross 05:44:24 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 05:44:29 <Callidus> is there a tutorial on these? 05:44:33 <supermop> i think so 05:44:49 <supermop> it might be easier to learn by trial and error 05:44:54 <supermop> thats what i did 05:45:05 <supermop> but follow that link that rubidium sent 05:46:01 <Callidus> so.. 05:46:06 <Callidus> theres 2 kinds. 05:46:14 <Callidus> which one is that tutorial using? 05:46:38 <Callidus> are they called pre signals btw? 05:49:30 <Callidus> gah 05:49:32 <Callidus> so many kinds 05:49:39 <Callidus> take a look. they all are actually different 05:49:42 <Callidus> http://wiki.openttd.org/Pre-signals#Pre-signals 05:50:53 <supermop> yeah 05:51:07 <supermop> if you scroll down, path signals are below 05:51:21 <supermop> i think they are easier than pre signals 05:52:07 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75B75.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:15:08 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 06:15:51 <Callidus> how can i make cities like me? 07:06:23 *** Callidus [~chatzilla@cpe-75-186-61-250.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 07:07:37 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-79.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 07:08:01 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:15:31 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:19:00 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:19:13 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:27:58 *** retro [~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz] has left #openttd [] 07:35:26 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0bbfb2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:41:11 <Terkhen> good morning 08:36:33 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 08:37:59 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 08:40:04 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-252-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:05:06 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4FF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:17:59 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc27ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:30:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AF48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:32:28 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has joined #openttd 09:42:26 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc27ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:48:51 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:20 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:50:13 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.239.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:57:11 *** Phazorx_ [~pkolla@195.144.240.155] has joined #openttd 09:59:00 *** Phazorx [~pkolla@195.144.240.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:17:29 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 10:31:21 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.239.250] has joined #openttd 10:40:49 <__ln__> happy fourth of july 10:41:28 <peter1138> eh? 10:43:43 <SpComb> quite 10:47:17 <Eddi|zuHause> ... it's called "Nikolaus" over here... :p 10:49:19 <dih> but roughly resembles the same ...? 10:55:03 *** fjb is now known as Guest236 10:55:07 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFA6B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:55:55 <fjb> Moin 10:57:43 *** Phazorx_ [~pkolla@195.144.240.155] has left #openttd [] 11:01:59 *** Guest236 [~frank@p5DDFE0A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:11:36 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 11:21:42 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Idealism is great until you realize that someone has to pay for it, and that someone is always, without exception, YOU.] 11:24:18 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:41:42 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.200.216] has joined #openttd 11:42:12 <roboboy> hello 11:47:23 <Ammler> Saletti Spaghetti 11:47:29 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 11:52:40 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has left #openttd [] 11:53:27 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21418 /trunk/src/network/core/core.h: -Fix: core.h needs config.h 11:55:22 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21419 /extra/masterserver_updater/docs/mysql-database-structure.sql: [MSU] -Fix: database structure didn't get imported correctly 11:55:40 *** KenjiE20 is now known as Guest242 11:55:49 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.197.32] has joined #openttd 11:57:13 <planetmaker> moin 11:57:59 <Rubidium> moi 11:58:21 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc27ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:58:50 *** Guest242 [~KenjiE20@92.8.200.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:00:52 <George> Hi 12:01:14 <George> By default indutry tiles animation is syncronized 12:01:32 <George> that means the cage hapen at the same time on all the tiles 12:01:44 <George> That's correct behaviour by default 12:01:51 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-79.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:02:08 <George> Is it posible to make them desync without using CB27? 12:03:08 <George> I maen make them happen not at the same time 12:06:24 <Rubidium> animation frame is nothing more than a variable that is updated every now and then which you then use to determine which graphics to draw, right? 12:08:16 <Rubidium> if so, can't you add the relative position to the animation frame, perform a modulo on that and use the result as "animation frame" to determine the to be used graphics on? 12:12:47 <planetmaker> or add a tile-randome number with modulo 12:28:38 <George> you have misunderstood the question 12:28:58 <George> I do not mean to have different frame 12:29:11 <George> I mean to change the frame in the different time 12:29:26 <George> Now all the tiles change the frame at the same time 12:30:28 <George> because prop 10 is high (07), it is easily seen 12:31:08 <George> I want for this particular tile to have it happen with the same delay but not at once 12:32:07 <George> it is possible to return random value in CB 27 and then return the same value, but CB27 eats much CPU, so I'm lookong for solution that does not use CB 27 12:35:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AF48.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:20 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:7444:fce3:4f39:1319] has joined #openttd 12:54:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:57:36 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc27ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:59:40 <George> Rubidium: ? 13:00:37 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:17 *** norbert791 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 13:47:22 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:31 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 13:50:57 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 13:59:37 <roboboy> gnight 14:02:38 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-251-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:03:56 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice3n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 14:04:36 *** norbert79 is now known as Guest252 14:07:51 *** Guest252 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice3n2.emea.ibm.com] has left #openttd [] 14:08:51 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.232.15] has joined #openttd 14:09:13 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc27ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:10:20 *** norbert791 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:19:44 <fonsinchen> What's going on with saveload recently? Will there be a completely new saveload system? What will it look like? 14:22:16 <Ammler> it is already in trunk, afaik 14:22:18 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i have seen, it's just separating the compression/storing/transferring separated from the savegame content generation 14:22:53 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing patchers should be concerned about 14:23:12 <fonsinchen> ok. 14:24:14 <Belugas> hello 14:25:14 <fonsinchen> I see ... we have 4 different compression methods there. 14:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: main issue was people getting thrown out due to the server being overloaded with large savegames. so now the savegame handling is more separate from the game, and transferring can start before compression has been finished 14:25:52 <Ammler> the server doesn't write a save to the disk anymore 14:27:18 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.232.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:28:27 <fonsinchen> nice. Can you actually configure the compression method somewhere? I'd like to have uncompressed saves sometimes. 14:28:32 <Xaroth> hm, I might be wrong, but in network_admin.cpp @ line 373-388 .. is it me or is the 'company_stats->num*' lines wrong? 14:28:38 <Xaroth> as it's doing a for all on 'company' .. 14:29:21 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: you could already for a long time. It's a setting in openttd.cfg ([misc].savegame_format) 14:29:26 <Xaroth> my lib is receiving the stats of 2 companies economy wise (which is the function above it).. but while receiving twice, it gets the proper companyid, yet the wrong data 14:29:39 <Rubidium> for LZMA and Zlib you can even configure the compression level 14:30:04 <Rubidium> e.g. lzma:9 14:30:32 <fonsinchen> oh, nice 14:30:57 <Rubidium> none is the one that doesn't do any compression 14:30:57 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 14:31:53 *** Doorslammer [770b0501@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:32:33 *** fanioz [~fanioz@203.128.250.162] has joined #openttd 14:32:40 *** m2rt [~m2rt@sa-84-52-10-135.saturn.infonet.ee] has joined #openttd 14:33:11 <m2rt> Hey! What was the openttd.cfg field that made sure that the game uses less bandwidth to communicate with clients in multiplayer? 14:33:19 <m2rt> I can't find it anymore... 14:34:28 <Eddi|zuHause> frame_freq 14:35:35 <Xaroth> bah, no msvc to make a proper patch for this bug 14:36:05 <m2rt> Thanks Eddi|zuHause !!!! You are golden! 14:36:13 *** m2rt [~m2rt@sa-84-52-10-135.saturn.infonet.ee] has quit [] 14:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. obviously. 14:36:27 <Xaroth> hehe 14:37:07 * fonsinchen finally cleans up the cargodist station gui now. 14:37:41 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:39:16 * Xaroth pokes dih 14:39:31 <dih> eh? 14:39:35 <Xaroth> ooh, he's here 14:39:44 <Xaroth> you're working on joan right 14:39:47 <dih> aye 14:39:52 <dih> and grapes 14:40:01 <dih> what can i do you for? 14:40:23 <Xaroth> working on my python lib.. think i found something odd 14:40:33 <Xaroth> in ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_COMPANY_STATS 14:41:03 <Xaroth> I got a map with 2 companies, 1 newly made 14:41:26 <Xaroth> i'm getting 2 ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_COMPANY_STATS, obviously.. yet the 2nd has the same stats as the first, with just the company index different 14:41:39 <Xaroth> while I'm pretty sure 1 train and 2 stations != 4 trains and 5 stations 14:41:45 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 14:41:50 <dih> heh 14:41:58 <Rubidium> Xaroth: http://rbijker.net/openttd/this.diff ? 14:42:15 <Xaroth> Rubidium: let me try 14:42:22 <dih> ohhhhh 14:42:37 <dih> just saw that too.... 14:42:41 <dih> thank you Xaroth 14:42:45 <Xaroth> Rubidium: the code at least looks more accurate :P 14:42:57 <dih> aye ^^ 14:43:11 <Xaroth> I'll compile and testrun it when I get back to my machine 14:49:29 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:00 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21420 /trunk/src/network/network_admin.cpp: -Fix: admins were always given the stats of company 0 14:56:21 <peter1138> admins? 14:56:44 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.57.22] has joined #openttd 14:57:01 <planetmaker> admin port 15:00:03 <Xaroth> <3 Rubidium 15:00:33 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 15:01:06 <peter1138> hmm, never heard of it s: 15:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it's basically rcon without the need for an actual client 15:09:28 <Xaroth> with some extras 15:11:32 <peter1138> how do you use it? 15:11:41 <Xaroth> http://svn.openttd.org/trunk/docs/admin_network.txt 15:12:20 *** fanioz [~fanioz@203.128.250.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:54 *** fanioz [~fanioz@203.128.250.162] has joined #openttd 15:13:25 <Xaroth> both dih and myself have been working on libs for it 15:13:28 <Xaroth> one in python, other in java 15:13:41 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 15:16:09 <dih> thank you Rubidium 15:17:18 <dih> peter1138, http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/?action=stop_on_copy&mode=stop_on_copy&rev=20975&stop_rev=&limit=13 15:18:08 <peter1138> well 15:18:15 <peter1138> at least you didn't go with dbus in the end, heh 15:19:04 <dih> :-P 15:19:25 <dih> nor is it a squirrel console, or squirrel interface 15:20:05 <Xaroth> and best of all 15:20:07 <Xaroth> no XML. 15:20:21 <peter1138> binary protocol though :S 15:21:22 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:23:03 <Xaroth> nothing wrong with that though :) 15:23:28 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:30:20 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-88-189.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 15:31:09 *** DayDreamer [~pouzara@80.95.101.194] has joined #openttd 15:36:14 *** yorick [yorick@hurf.minds.durf.alike.shellium.org] has joined #openttd 15:40:42 * Belugas is enjoying Chapel Rock 15:46:07 <Rubidium> Contradictio in terminis? 15:48:27 <Belugas> :) 15:52:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v Yexo] by ChanServ 16:00:44 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.96.19] has joined #openttd 16:03:44 * Eddi|zuHause is going to have a concert tonight 16:08:59 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 16:10:02 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc27ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:12:57 <V453000> is 2cc set 1.0.1 still available on bananas please? 16:13:37 <V453000> it seems to be 16:14:53 <Ammler> yep 16:15:06 <Ammler> no newgrfs are deleted there 16:17:37 <V453000> great :) 16:17:39 <V453000> thx 16:18:41 <planetmaker> V453000, nothing can be ever removed from bananas except by Rb himself. 16:18:55 <V453000> oh :) 16:19:00 <planetmaker> and then only by hacking the database. 16:19:07 <V453000> good :) thanks 16:19:29 <planetmaker> just download for cases where it is not required by a savegame can be disabled by authors 16:19:53 <V453000> arr 16:20:24 <planetmaker> result: you only get those which the authors want or if you absolutely need it in order to load a savegame / join a server 16:24:51 <V453000> sounds reasonable :) 16:27:12 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.atm2-0-1301022.boanxx15.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:27:57 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc27ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:28:37 <Ammler> sounds unnecessary complicated, but well, we can still hope... :-) 16:29:27 <planetmaker> why do you want to download all old shit? 16:29:56 <Ammler> well, there needs to be a reson, else would wouldn't disallow it 16:30:12 <Ammler> you* 16:30:28 <planetmaker> authors of newgrfs not being keen of people using old versions for new games? 16:30:37 <planetmaker> Don't you recall all those heated resentiments? 16:30:57 <Ammler> no, I don't, the only guys mention such things are the devs here 16:31:19 <planetmaker> that was a requirement by a lot of newgrf authors. 16:31:38 <Ammler> if you can quote me one, I would be suprised 16:31:38 <planetmaker> they want to have control over which of their versions get distributed 16:32:20 <planetmaker> I can't dig up a quote without extensive search... 16:32:28 <V453000> I think this way is also very newbie friendly 16:32:36 <Ammler> you won't be able to ;-) 16:32:43 <Ammler> also if you search for hours 16:32:43 <V453000> they would get lost in the amount of versions I bet 16:32:59 * Rubidium ponders the use of having 10 OpenGFX versions in that list 16:33:18 <planetmaker> ... but you should know that the coop grfpack was only allowed to distribute stuff on the condition that we update when new versions are around 16:33:53 <planetmaker> V453000, nightlies only show you the latest version anyway ;-) 16:33:57 <Ammler> yes, our own rules :-) 16:34:04 <V453000> pm: stable doesnt? :o 16:34:09 <planetmaker> no 16:34:11 <V453000> :o 16:34:13 <Ammler> but every version is available 16:34:23 <V453000> yes, and that is imo good 16:34:25 <planetmaker> it shows you every newgrf. E.g. I have about a dozen FIRS and HEQS versions around 16:34:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd112.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:34:58 <Rubidium> or 54 versions of NoCab, or 26 versions of ECS Chemical vector II, or 15 versions of NuTracks 16:35:29 <V453000> if a person like me has an older version, he probably knows how it works since he has it "from the times back then" ... if the wants to use it, he will, and others can join his game ... but if there was everything available for direct download, I am not wondering that authors wouldnt like it :) 16:35:35 <Ammler> hehe, that is not what we talk about, Rubidium 16:35:44 <planetmaker> not? 16:36:09 <Ammler> it's not about having all versions listed, it is about having old versions available, if needed 16:36:35 <V453000> arent they? 16:36:40 <Ammler> and it is about investing much effort to close those out 16:37:00 <Rubidium> Ammler: they are available... 16:37:06 <Ammler> yes, for you :-P 16:37:11 <Rubidium> for YOU as well 16:37:32 <Rubidium> you just need a savegame that uses the old version of the NewGRF 16:37:57 <Rubidium> then, in the load window, you'll see a warning about missing newgrfs, click on check content online and there it is... ready to be downloaded 16:38:23 <Rubidium> it *even* has a "select all" button so you don't need to individually select the NewGRFs. After all, you need all of them for your savegame 16:38:35 <Ammler> as i said, much effort for something completely unnecessary 16:38:44 <planetmaker> ... ? 16:38:56 <Rubidium> Ammler: then how would you provide old versions of NewGRF? 16:39:24 <Ammler> by not hiding them, simply :-) 16:39:25 * planetmaker guesses "provide everything" 16:39:35 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd112.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:37 <planetmaker> Ammler, they're not hidden... 16:39:50 <Rubidium> Ammler: and thus... you get those 26 versions of ECS Chemical vectors in that list 16:39:59 <Ammler> in which list? 16:40:09 <Rubidium> the in game list of content that you can download 16:40:20 <planetmaker> Download lists? NewGRF selection lists? 16:40:24 <Ammler> why is there need to download old grfs? 16:40:24 <V453000> any list that you have them "hidden" in Ammler :p 16:40:57 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd112.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:41:04 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has left #openttd [desync error detected] 16:41:36 <Ammler> :-) 16:41:38 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has joined #openttd 16:41:42 <planetmaker> The only useful addition I see is on the bananas side for authors to allow to select additionally some old versions as available for download, too 16:42:08 <planetmaker> Like to allow 2ccTrainset 1.0 and 2ccTrainset 2.0beta 16:42:28 <Ammler> wouldn't be needed, if you don't hide it 16:42:32 <Rubidium> but still... the whole discussion started about downloading stuff from bananas, but it isn't about downloading stuff? 16:42:46 <planetmaker> But only as an option which is by default not selected when adding a new version 16:42:50 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.atm2-0-1301022.boanxx15.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:43:15 <Rubidium> Ammler: if you don't hide the OLD versions, then you would have those 11 other versions of OpenGFX in that download list 16:43:20 <Ammler> Rubidium: you tell me, you made that so someone doesn't have 20 versions of same content listed? 16:43:22 <Rubidium> or those 25 other versions of ECS vectors 16:44:00 <V453000> that would be just a mess in the list 16:44:07 <Terkhen> in which cases would you want to download a version that is not the newest one? the only case I can think of is joining / loading a game, and that is already covered 16:44:38 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.96.19] has quit [Quit: keoz] 16:44:44 <planetmaker> Terkhen, NARS, NARS2. But, yes, very rare. 16:45:06 <Terkhen> but those specials cases are shown in bananas twice already IIRC 16:45:25 <planetmaker> But allowing authors to select single versions as permanently available would allow to have both, a development version as well as a stable version available on bananas. 16:45:28 <Rubidium> Ammler: most NewGRF developers at that time didn't want old versions of their NewGRFs being listed prominently in the list 16:45:38 <Rubidium> which is the reason why it's implemented as it is 16:46:22 <Rubidium> and technically the system is perfectly capable of showing multiple versions. It's just the "management" part that doesn't support it 16:46:29 <Ammler> Rubidium: that is and was always your thought, you can't quote someone 16:47:27 <Ammler> it is perfectly fine to "filter" old content, but it should be available on demand 16:51:55 <Ammler> Terkhen: if you simply don't like a feature a author introduced in a new release 16:53:11 <Rubidium> Ammler: "The reason I made those comments about multiplayer support was 16:53:11 <Rubidium> because - primarily for quality control reasons - I want to avoid my grfs 16:53:12 <Rubidium> appearing on sites which are nothing more than repositories of files." 16:53:28 <Rubidium> [David Dallaston, Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:41:45 +1000 16:55:24 <Ammler> that is from "our" thread, isn't? 16:57:37 <Ammler> that is against repo in general, but not against bananas or "only newest version" 16:58:57 <Ammler> well, the code for bananas is done, so it doesn't really hurt anymore 16:59:04 <Rubidium> in any case. In my opinion it is up to the NewGRF author to determine which NewGRFs (s)he wants to be shown 16:59:21 <Rubidium> and "only newest version" is a reasonable default setting 16:59:55 <Rubidium> only problem is that the website doesn't allow the authors to configure that 17:00:50 <Rubidium> the content system itself does what it does purely based on the data in the database and the client's (newgrf exposed) version 17:01:23 <Ammler> if the website would allow it, you would need to have default setting show every version, else you don't know, if there is really an author caring about. 17:02:28 <Rubidium> I rather add an opt-out for removing the current visible NewGRFs from the list upon updates 17:02:46 <Ammler> NARS and NARS2 are 2 seperate entries, not sure, if that is the right thing to do 17:02:59 <Rubidium> as I personally think that showing only one versions is *much* better for the players than showing 25 versions 17:03:34 <Ammler> again, the meaning is not that if you allow every grf, that also every grf shold be listed 17:03:45 <Ammler> you can still filter 17:04:00 <Rubidium> you is who? 17:04:06 <Rubidium> the client? 17:04:08 <Ammler> yep 17:04:14 <Ammler> like now 17:04:17 <Rubidium> now... that is (much) extra work 17:05:13 <Rubidium> especially as it means OpenTTD needs to get an idea of the ordering of versions 17:05:18 <Ammler> yes, I know, you used the energy to hide the old grfs, nothing left for publish those anymore ;-) 17:05:21 <Rubidium> which is *far* from trivial 17:05:41 <Rubidium> Ammler: hiding old GRFs isn't hard 17:05:46 <Rubidium> it's extremely trivial 17:05:59 <Ammler> and why is filtering harder? 17:06:26 <Rubidium> Ammler: tell me, based on the grfid + md5sum + name + version string which is the newest 17:06:48 <Rubidium> compared to: upon uploading a new version say that version overrides the previous "top" version 17:07:15 <Ammler> yes, why does that need changing? 17:08:12 <Ammler> well, one thing I would change there is that the author can chose "top" 17:08:37 <Rubidium> that's missing from the management interface 17:08:53 <Ammler> but the old versions aren't even available for the author, so this is hard right now. 17:08:58 <Rubidium> still the client has no idea about ordering of versions 17:08:59 <Ammler> hmm, they are 17:12:28 <Ammler> there is "right" order needed, just order those how they are uploaded and top is marked as default or what the the save game requests 17:12:35 <Ammler> no* 17:13:04 <Rubidium> oh, it's not even "top" version. There's one (or more) versions that get their published state set. Upon uploading a new version the published state of one of the old versions is unset 17:13:45 <Rubidium> in any case, the client has no clue about the ordering of versions, or even whether they are marked as "published" 17:14:51 <Rubidium> e.g. when you set dependencies for content then all the dependencies' metadata is pulled in automatically and shown in the download list. Regardless whether they are marked as published or not 17:15:17 <Rubidium> i.e. it behaves like requesting metadata for the download list based on a list of NewGRFs you need for a savegame 17:15:37 <Rubidium> in any case... filtering on version at client side is a way bigger headache 17:15:42 <Ammler> hmm, dependencies are version based? 17:15:53 <Rubidium> yes 17:16:00 <Rubidium> AIs depend on a specific version of a library 17:16:08 <Rubidium> scenarios depend on a specific version of a NewGRF 17:16:28 <Rubidium> translation NewGRFs generally depend on a specific version of translated NewGRF 17:17:14 *** DayDreamer [~pouzara@80.95.101.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:17:35 <George> Let me repeat my question 17:18:08 <George> [15:01:23] <George> By default indutry tiles animation is syncronized 17:18:08 <George> [15:01:42] <George> that means the cage hapen at the same time on all the tiles 17:18:08 <George> [15:01:54] <George> That's correct behaviour by default 17:18:08 <George> [15:02:18] <George> Is it posible to make them desync without using CB27? 17:18:08 <George> [15:03:17] <George> I maen make them happen not at the same time 17:18:08 <George> [15:29:07] <George> I do not mean to have different frame 17:18:11 <George> [15:29:20] <George> I mean to change the frame in the different time 17:18:11 <George> [15:29:35] <George> Now all the tiles change the frame at the same time 17:18:13 <George> [15:30:37] <George> because prop 10 is high (07), it is easily seen 17:18:13 <George> [15:31:17] <George> I want for this particular tile to have it happen with the same delay but not at once 17:18:14 <George> [15:32:16] <George> it is possible to return random value in CB 27 and then return the same value, but CB27 eats much CPU, so I'm lookong for solution that does not use CB 27 17:18:22 <Ammler> oh sorry George, I am quiet :-P 17:19:01 <Rubidium> didn't we already give two possible solutions for that? 17:19:33 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc27ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:02 <Rubidium> oh, #3: use the animation stage of a nearby tile and add some offset to that to delay the animation on that tile 17:22:15 <George> Rubidium: again. You are answereing wrong question 17:22:42 <George> I do not ask how to have different animation farme 17:23:20 <George> I ask how to to make the frame change happen at the different time, while the delay between the frame change is the same 17:23:43 <George> s/farme/frame 17:26:37 <Rubidium> does animation actually happen at the same time? 17:26:39 <frosch123> isn't there an asynchronous animation trigger? 17:26:46 <George> Rubidium: yes 17:26:59 <Rubidium> as animation happens at the tile loop 17:27:05 <George> frosch123: That is the thing I'm looking for 17:27:06 <Rubidium> and the tile loop happens only every N ticks 17:27:10 <George> and can't find 17:28:01 <frosch123> George: industrytile property 11 ? 17:28:16 *** ezrakilty [~ezrac@67.110.141.71] has joined #openttd 17:28:36 <frosch123> bit 1 is asynchronous, bit 2 is synchronous 17:28:56 <George> Acceptance cargo types (11)? 17:29:12 <frosch123> Triggers for callback 25 (11) 17:29:30 *** fani0z [~fanioz@180.214.232.13] has joined #openttd 17:29:37 <frosch123> tiles, not industries themself 17:34:00 *** fanioz [~fanioz@203.128.250.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:34:36 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:37:02 <George> frosch123: Sounds good but ... They still happen at the same time :( 17:37:18 <frosch123> they should not 17:37:27 <George> BTW all the tiles have the same ID 17:37:39 <frosch123> should not matter 17:38:03 *** Doorslammer [770b0501@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:38:54 <George> frosch123: http://george.zernebok.net/temp/-1/ECSAgriw.grf - Animal farm 17:39:10 <George> What am I doing wrong? 17:39:53 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e08955d.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:42:34 *** fanioz [~fanioz@203.128.250.162] has joined #openttd 17:43:15 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:08 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:45:57 *** fani0z [~fanioz@180.214.232.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:47:25 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4FF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 17:48:37 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-120-173.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:36 <frosch123> which tile exactly, the animal farm (id 1f) uses tiles b0 to ba 17:50:31 <George> as you can see the same graphics is attach to tiles b2, b3, b5-ba 17:50:41 <George> and it happens at the same time 17:50:52 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-201-102.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 17:50:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 17:50:58 <George> but I wanted them to happen separately 17:51:11 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-172.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:52:14 <George> to make the animals field different during time 17:55:14 *** Katje_ is now known as Katje 17:56:47 <frosch123> hmm, do you actually use callback 25? 18:04:25 <frosch123> it looks like you use the defaultanimation, which is started on industry construction, and thus the same for all tiles 18:05:37 <frosch123> so, i guess disable animation in property 0f, and use cb 25 instead to change the frame manually when triggered 18:14:06 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:14:46 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-172.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:18:48 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 18:19:15 <IchGuckLive> hi all from deep in snow country Germany 18:19:50 <IchGuckLive> Question does it make a difference where i put the trainstation to a large city for only passengers 18:19:54 <Markk> Guten Abend. 18:20:00 <IchGuckLive> B) 18:20:23 <Markk> IchGuckLive: Yes, a station only have a fixed spread. 18:20:43 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:20:52 <IchGuckLive> i got 2 citys >2500in a distance from 40tiles 18:21:01 <Markk> But there is a way to "walk around" that. 18:21:27 <IchGuckLive> by bus 18:21:35 <Markk> Just put out a 1x1 station that is the same station but not psysically attached to that main station. 18:22:09 <Markk> (When placing a station, press and old ctrl when putting out a station) 18:22:31 <Markk> Then you'll be able to attach a station to another station. 18:22:43 <Markk> hold* 18:23:31 <IchGuckLive> so no track to the 2nd station only 1 tile around the city and track to the mains stations 18:24:01 <Markk> Mm 18:24:24 <Markk> It will be the same station even if it's not physically attached. 18:24:47 <IchGuckLive> without tracks 18:25:01 <Markk> Yes 18:25:25 <Markk> Test to place a station while pressing ctrl near another station. 18:25:32 <Markk> You'll get an little menu. 18:25:41 <George> frosch123: what should I set in 0f? If FF - no animation happens. if 0 - it happens at the same time for all of them 18:25:41 <IchGuckLive> so only the sqares that are connected to the city given me the passengers 18:26:21 <Markk> IchGuckLive: Nah, all station will give you passengers as long as there is a city within the station spread. 18:26:26 <IchGuckLive> ok i will play a scenario for that 18:26:36 <Markk> Uh, station spread is something else. 18:26:41 <Markk> BUt you get my point. :) 18:27:01 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-172.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:27:29 <IchGuckLive> oh you mean if there is a city near the other then connect them together 18:27:56 <Markk> Could do, yes. 18:29:56 <SmatZ> wtf, mercury thermometers are forbidden to be sold in the EU 18:30:02 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF84A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:31:09 <SmatZ> so I am offered to buy digital thermometers that are ~40 times as expensive... and according to some tests, not very exact 18:31:33 <ccfreak2k> And the EU lacks thermometers that use alcohol or wax? 18:32:33 <SmatZ> they aren't selling them here... maybe they aren't good enough for temperature range of human body? 18:33:00 <ccfreak2k> Oh, it's for that? 18:33:09 <ccfreak2k> Then yeah, no surprises on the lack of mercury thermometers. 18:33:13 <planetmaker> My parent's home probably still has in some corners some mercury bubbles ;-) 18:33:34 <planetmaker> from the last feaver thermometer which had accidentially been smashed. 18:33:58 <SmatZ> :) 18:34:43 <planetmaker> so yes, it makes some kind of sense :-) - but the units mm Hg get more and more less obvious :-( 18:35:07 <planetmaker> hm... though that's a pressure unit :-D 18:35:19 <SmatZ> hehe 18:36:04 <planetmaker> so the question is: how accurate are Hg thermometers? 18:36:09 <frosch123> SmatZ: of course mercury thermometers are forbidden. they use alcohol for decades instead 18:38:19 <frosch123> George: animation can be done in different ways. one way is to start a "classical animation" which runs indepenent of the tile processing loop, and is controlled via property 0f and 10, and callbacks 26 and 27 18:38:52 <frosch123> the other way is to do animation using the tile processing loop only. then you disable the regular animation in property 0f, and use cb 25 instead to set the next animation frame 18:41:58 <SmatZ> frosch123: interesting, I am sure we had mercury thermometers 18:42:10 <SmatZ> because it was certainly mercury what poured out when one broke :p 18:42:54 * SmatZ will ask for alcohol thermometers next time 18:43:41 <SmatZ> ok, now I look like a total fool :) 18:44:29 <Ammler> that is because you use alcohol for something else 18:44:37 <SmatZ> :P 18:44:44 <frosch123> SmatZ: if it is silver, it is mercury. if it is red or something like that, it is something else. 18:44:48 <SmatZ> why people hate me :< 18:44:53 <SmatZ> frosch123: yup, seems so :) 18:45:07 <SmatZ> I wanted to say that, but then I decided to rather shut up :) 18:45:07 <Ammler> who ? 18:45:12 <SmatZ> Ammler: nah :) 18:45:16 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-172.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:22 * planetmaker likes SmatZ 18:45:28 * SmatZ hugs planetmaker 18:45:33 <IchGuckLive> is there a tutorial how to enlarge trains in the best way ? 18:45:43 <Ammler> adding trains? 18:45:47 <Ammler> wagons* 18:45:48 <frosch123> hmm, i head of thermometers specially suited for wine. are the also some for bear? 18:45:56 <SmatZ> BEAR! 18:45:59 <SmatZ> :) 18:46:00 <planetmaker> Blasebalg und viel Luft (inflate it with much air) :-P 18:46:04 <SmatZ> sorry 18:46:09 <IchGuckLive> or simply bay more wagons at the depo 18:46:13 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: translators * r21421 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files): (log message trimmed) 18:46:13 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:46:13 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: belarusian - 2 changes by KorneySan 18:46:13 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: catalan - 3 changes by arnau 18:46:13 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne 18:46:14 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: dutch - 21 changes by habell 18:46:14 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx 18:46:16 <frosch123> hmm, beer :s 18:46:20 <planetmaker> :-D 18:46:22 * SmatZ imagines trying to measure temperature of a bear 18:46:23 <SmatZ> :) 18:46:23 <glx> frosch123: the floating ones ? 18:46:31 <Ammler> IchGuckLive: clone the train and add it at the end 18:46:32 * planetmaker would like to see frosch taking the temperature of a bear :-P 18:46:38 <SmatZ> frosch123: sure they are :) at least at breweries 18:46:45 <Ammler> IchGuckLive: and so on... 18:46:59 <IchGuckLive> Ammler: not enoph money for e new one 18:47:26 <IchGuckLive> i want to add some wagons only 18:47:38 <planetmaker> buy the wagon and drag it to the train 18:47:41 <frosch123> planetmaker: around 37°C, or 100°F when healthy 18:47:57 <planetmaker> hehe :-) frosch123 I'm not interested in the result but the procedure ;-) 18:48:05 <frosch123> (just to honour the stupidest unit ever: °F) 18:48:07 <planetmaker> full video documentary please 18:48:07 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-172.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:48:08 <glx> 42°C means very big danger 18:48:10 <IchGuckLive> planetmaker: do i have to direct the train to the depo 18:48:25 <planetmaker> sure 18:48:30 <IchGuckLive> thanks 18:48:54 <IchGuckLive> planetmaker: do i loose the passenfers if i direct the train to the depoà 18:49:10 <planetmaker> not by that action alone 18:50:11 <IchGuckLive> ok i try 18:51:09 <IchGuckLive> the amount of money for a ship carianig ole around the map shoudt be more then its now REAL wold example ! 18:51:59 <Lakie> I think you made a small typo in your diff, Rubidium, you have a case for 47 and then 48... 18:52:17 <IchGuckLive> by for today 18:52:24 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 18:53:03 <Rubidium> Lakie: ah, I see 18:54:01 <Lakie> Still prefer the term variants to rotations, technically it's up to the authors what graphical differences there are. 18:54:48 *** retro [~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 18:55:08 <Rubidium> Lakie: it's using "view(s)", not rotations 18:55:12 <Rubidium> and the diff's updated 18:55:20 <Lakie> Ok 18:55:51 <Lakie> Do I need to alter how var40 and most of the 60's or can I ssume the grf will handle the different views correctly? 18:57:03 <Rubidium> I'm just assuming the NewGRF handles it correctly 18:57:11 *** Spoons is now known as FauxFaux 18:57:22 <frosch123> SmatZ: hmm, maybe mercurial is not that unusual though, as alcohol is limited to about 70°C 18:57:26 <Rubidium> i.e. I'm not doing any rotations or similar except to the initial allocation of tiles 18:58:33 <Lakie> Ok, so only the initial size which is getting altered? 18:59:26 <Lakie> (I assume from the code, if its 1/3 it swaps the dimentions)? 18:59:33 <Rubidium> in my implementation yes 18:59:42 <Rubidium> exactly 19:03:25 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:03:47 * Lakie ponders 19:03:54 <frosch123> Lakie: with "variants" you mean something like the airport layouts? (basically a third selection in addition to object class and type, which name is defined by a callback) 19:04:09 <Lakie> I mean, same object but differrent look 19:04:44 <Lakie> Though, admittedly I didn't think about objects which aren't square 19:05:05 <planetmaker> 2x1 office building :-) 19:05:24 <frosch123> non-square objects are quite troublesome :) 19:05:27 <Rubidium> frosch123: more like the depot window: choose one of 4 (or 2 or 1 depending on what the NewGRF provides) 19:05:39 <Rubidium> frosch123: read the newobjects spec thread? 19:06:18 <frosch123> i read the recent posts. maybe i also read the rest somewhen, but likely forgot at lot :) 19:06:21 <Lakie> The gui changes sound like a pain in the ass though... 19:06:45 <Rubidium> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=138048 <- that's His idea 19:07:04 <Lakie> Especially if he really wants every object perfectly centred in each preview for any object... 19:07:37 <Rubidium> Lakie: luckily perfect is never going to work :) 19:08:13 <Rubidium> and I'd be lazy and just keep it as is, i.e. aligned to the bottom 19:08:34 <frosch123> oh, damn... i read "non-square" as "non-rectangular" ... 19:09:07 <planetmaker> I wonder how that idea works when there are 30 variations 19:09:22 <planetmaker> So probably something like the proposed stationGUI method would be nice(r) 19:09:33 <planetmaker> as it allows scrolling 19:09:56 <frosch123> how about a variable number of layouts, which are displayed in a scrollable list. and some action 0 flag to choose between 1 and 2 columns 19:10:11 <Rubidium> planetmaker: only 1, 2 or 4 variations are allowed :) 19:10:26 <frosch123> that way a grf can provide different looks like for airports, or different orientations in groups of 2 19:10:37 <planetmaker> nah... better make it in a way that you can treat both things with basically the same GUI code 19:10:55 <planetmaker> hm... airports 19:11:05 <Rubidium> planetmaker: ever noticed that stations have 2 variations? 19:11:17 <planetmaker> \ and / ? 19:11:21 <Rubidium> yes 19:11:21 <planetmaker> I guess I did :-) 19:11:27 <frosch123> i.e. either n variants with the same size, or 2xn variants with swapped dimensions for every second variant 19:11:54 <Rubidium> so in what way is adding those variations different from the station GUI? 19:12:18 <frosch123> stations have exaclty 2 variants 19:12:34 <frosch123> a object could have 2xn with (n > 2) 19:12:46 <Rubidium> then it's rather 4xn 19:12:55 <Rubidium> as there are 4 rotations (see depots) 19:13:22 <frosch123> why 4? what is the difference between 4 and 2 x 2 ? 19:13:40 <frosch123> ottd only has to care about the dimension 19:13:44 <Rubidium> true 19:14:00 <frosch123> if there are multiple variants varying in look, it does not matter whether some of them are addional rotations 19:14:27 <Rubidium> I'd just limit it to max 4 19:14:31 <Lakie> Indeed, as stated the graphics point ovf view is the authors decisions... 19:14:41 <Lakie> Well, I think 4 is enough... 19:14:46 <Rubidium> after that it's (IMO) something else 19:14:56 <Lakie> Most objects will likely be rotatins and thus only need 4. 19:15:15 <Lakie> Also, how to show the options past 4 becomes less friendly 19:15:17 <frosch123> no livery variants? or similiar stuff? 19:15:33 <Rubidium> frosch123: please not :) 19:15:37 <Lakie> If the author wants to use their variants like that... 19:15:47 <Lakie> Still counts against their 4... 19:15:50 * Lakie flee 19:15:58 <frosch123> well ok, but then please make the specs entensible :) 19:16:10 <frosch123> do not force 1, 2, or 4 :) 19:16:32 <Rubidium> but they are essentially rotations of the same thing 19:16:35 <Lakie> Hmm... but if we allow unlimited (likely 255), we run into problems with the selection interfaces 19:16:53 <Rubidium> if you want variants, then it's a different object 19:17:15 <Rubidium> and the variants of differents takes on objects of a single class 19:18:11 <frosch123> well, e.g. bus/truck stops have 6 variants 19:18:30 <Rubidium> i.e. we want to provide a "depot choose style" "chose the rotation", not a proposed station GUI "variants" choice 19:18:58 <Rubidium> frosch123: or... 4 rotations of the terminus and 2 rotations of the drive through 19:19:11 <Lakie> Heh 19:19:13 <Rubidium> i.e. conceptually completely different things 19:19:30 <Rubidium> after all, the drive through is accessed from two sides 19:19:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AF48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:21:37 <frosch123> well, i see property 17 is a byte, so it is extensible, so it should be fine :) 19:23:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AF48.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:15 <Lakie> Unsure about the interface though, getting it to work like the proposal seems like it could be somewhat messy 19:29:04 <Rubidium> I'm just waiting for our GUI guru for ideas/suggestions :) 19:29:33 <Lakie> Heh 19:34:00 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:36:16 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:40:38 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:46:18 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:46:32 <andythenorth> evening 19:54:27 <SmatZ> hello andythenorth 20:08:15 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc27ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:17:53 <andythenorth> ship smoke is no longer necessary: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11931883 20:18:30 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 20:23:41 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f735945.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:25:40 <George> frosch123: animation can be done in different ways. -> then is there some tile counter like AA for industries, but for tiles? 20:26:33 <George> I need the tile is processed in the periodic processing loop to happen less often than every 256 ticks 20:28:49 <George> checking industry var AA is not the right solution, because tiles would change graphics on one cycle (within 256 ticks) and stay unchanged on other cycles 20:32:28 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823305.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:34:27 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@141.10.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 20:36:05 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-102-249.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:40:02 *** SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:41:20 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-113.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 20:43:05 <frosch123> George: then make multiple frames look the same 20:43:37 <George> how would it help? 20:43:58 <frosch123> every tile has 8 bits for the animation frame, so you can have 256 animation stages 20:44:24 <frosch123> if you want a certain spritelayout to stay for like 10 tileloops, then show it for frames 0 to 9 20:44:25 <George> and how would it help? 20:44:36 <George> prop 10 is not taken into account 20:44:38 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc27ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:38 <frosch123> the next layout for frames 10 to say 15 20:44:47 <frosch123> and the nextone for 16 to 35 or whatever 20:45:15 <frosch123> tileloop is always 256 ticks, independent of any property 20:45:25 <George> And that is the problem 20:45:46 <frosch123> only if you want to make faster animation 20:49:56 <frosch123> anyway, alternative you can also do the animation for one tile how you are doing now, and make the other tiles copy the animation frame from that tile during the tile processing 20:50:06 *** Jolteon [~Leftie@109.73.163.17] has quit [Quit: Speech Thewapy Wools OK?] 20:50:29 <frosch123> so you have one master tile doing whatever frames, and the other tiles copying it asynchronously 20:50:40 <frosch123> that should work as long as the frames are not shorter than 256 ticks 20:51:49 <frosch123> though all tiles will then change within the same 256 ticks, and then stay until the mastertile advances 20:55:55 <George> frosch123: same 256 ticks, and then stay until the mastertile advances <- this what I try to avoid :( 20:56:11 <frosch123> well, what is exactly the timing of your tiles? 20:56:41 <frosch123> can the frame durations all become multiple of 256 ticks? 20:57:10 <George> nothing exact, but I want it to be something big - over a game month 20:57:56 <George> currently I can have 2048 tics 20:58:02 <frosch123> he, then use the date 20:58:24 <George> How would it help? 20:58:44 <George> Al the tiles have the same ID and would do the same date check 20:58:59 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4868.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:59:22 <George> 2048 ticks is 20 game days, right? 20:59:42 <frosch123> use something like "(date + random bits) and 0xF" for a frame between 0 and 0xF 20:59:58 <frosch123> @calc 2048/74 20:59:58 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 27.6756756757 21:01:30 <frosch123> oh, better than date is actualy var 0x0a 21:02:25 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 21:02:25 *** George is now known as Guest40 21:02:26 *** George|2 is now known as George 21:02:33 <frosch123> so something like "((var 0x0a + random bits) >> speed) and framemask" 21:02:53 <ccfreak2k> & 21:03:40 <frosch123> c operators are untrve 21:08:58 *** Guest40 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:13:16 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:22:20 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 21:25:04 <frosch123> night 21:25:07 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd112.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:55 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 21:30:32 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [] 21:31:34 *** LordAro [56841a4e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:31:43 <LordAro> evenin' 21:31:45 * Belugas is hungry 21:31:53 <Belugas> hey LordAro 21:32:05 <LordAro> hey Belugas :) 21:34:27 * ABCRic throws a couple tons o' fish at Belugas 21:37:03 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:37:16 <Belugas> thanks for all the fish 21:37:30 <SystemParadox> can anyone direct me to rules for submitting patches? I'm particularly thinking about requirements for settings/strings 21:37:38 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:37:48 <Belugas> flyspay would be one spot 21:38:09 <Belugas> oh.. silly me... a clickable url.. 21:38:10 <Belugas> http://bugs.openttd.org/ 21:38:45 <LordAro> i suspect this might help... http://wiki.openttd.org/Development_Documentation 21:41:21 <SystemParadox> I'm there already, but I've seen mention of "OpenTTD quality requirements" which I can't find 21:41:39 <Belugas> check for coding style :) 21:41:57 <SystemParadox> coding style only has coding style 21:42:02 <SystemParadox> (if that makes sense) 21:43:21 <ABCRic> Requirements: good wording and spelling? 21:43:33 <SystemParadox> http://wiki.openttd.org/Patch_Checklist seems to cover it 21:54:13 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75F24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:58:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:01:11 <SystemParadox> um. Having attached a patch to a bug report, how do I get my patch applied? There is no status for "waiting for devs to apply patch" 22:01:42 <LordAro> you wait ;) 22:01:43 <__ln__> SystemParadox: prepare to wait for approximately 6 to 18 months. 22:01:51 <SystemParadox> what?! 22:02:14 <SystemParadox> it's a 2 line patch! 22:02:22 <__ln__> still. 22:02:27 <LordAro> which bug report? 22:02:34 <SystemParadox> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3406 22:04:46 <LordAro> 2 line patch? no it isn't. its 17 lines, with 6 changes and 4 extra lines :p 22:05:07 <Belugas> why not make it simper? 22:05:09 <Belugas> simpler? 22:05:10 <Belugas> _cursor.fix_at = !(_settings_client.gui.reverse_scroll); 22:05:17 <Belugas> looks more like a decent code to me 22:05:41 <Rubidium> even without the parentheses 22:05:47 <Belugas> true that 22:05:54 <Belugas> i'm hungry and i am tired 22:06:07 <Belugas> and i'm going in away 22:06:11 <Belugas> BYE BYE 22:06:21 <Rubidium> have a good evening :) 22:06:55 <Belugas> thanks :) you too sir 22:06:58 * Belugas is gone 22:07:05 <SystemParadox> lol 22:07:24 <LordAro> what a guy :) 22:07:38 *** Markavian [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:00 *** Markavian [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:09:26 <LordAro> quick question: running regression(ai) results in the ai dying "unexpectantly", is this correct? 22:09:54 <SystemParadox> why won't flyspray let me delete/overwrite the old version? 22:10:22 <Rubidium> LordAro: yes, it dies unexpectedly because the script runs out. Which is incidentally the clue that it had enough time to run 22:11:07 <SmatZ> "make regression" works as expected for me 22:12:20 <LordAro> i meant running: bin/ai/regression/run.sh 22:12:36 <LordAro> as it says to do here: http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/NoAI/Adding_a_squirrel_function 22:12:47 <planetmaker> SystemParadox: it's a bug tracker... and not a patch archive 22:12:57 <planetmaker> old versions are part of discussions 22:13:12 <SystemParadox> I guess 22:14:39 * LordAro would like an answer quickly, as his mum is telling me to go to bed! :D 22:14:48 <LordAro> i'm too impatient, i know :) 22:15:36 <planetmaker> SystemParadox: for that reason a version within the filename is helpful :-P 22:20:35 <LordAro> never mind, but i'll be checking the logs in the morning ;) 22:20:44 <LordAro> night people 22:22:19 * LordAro says bye bye 22:22:32 <planetmaker> bye 22:22:52 *** LordAro [56841a4e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:23:21 <SystemParadox> planetmaker, yeah had I known I would have done that. I was thinking it would overwrite it. Oh well 22:23:31 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 22:23:37 <planetmaker> :-) shit happens 22:23:53 <Ammler> isn't there a date with the file? 22:25:08 <Ammler> oh, not on FS 22:25:22 <planetmaker> not there 22:26:43 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-88-189.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:29:15 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-173-197.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 22:31:36 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@141.10.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Sometimes I wonder why that frisbee is getting bigger, and suddenly, it hits me.] 22:36:29 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:44:26 *** staaN [~Miranda@p4FD8444F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:47:11 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-172.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:47:59 <V453000> lol wtf bbq I just loaded an old savegame and ICE3 from DB set are making steam :D 22:50:56 <V453000> oh holy crap :D it happens also normally 22:51:12 <Ammler> normally? 22:53:36 <V453000> I just generated a new game with DBset only 22:53:36 *** fanioz [~fanioz@203.128.250.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:42 <V453000> and ICE 3 are making steam :D 22:54:07 <Ammler> I guess, it is introduced with the Hirundo patch 22:54:42 <V453000> ?? :o 22:55:00 <V453000> the none/original/realistic smoke amount? 22:55:22 <V453000> that would be great, but what is steam doing on ICE3 :D 22:56:09 <Rubidium> it's a spec disagreement 22:56:46 <Rubidium> OpenTTD implemented the specs, but apparantly the specs aren't how it's implemented in TTDPatch and thus the specs are wrong, blah blah blah 22:57:08 <Ammler> i guess, there is a thread about... 22:58:28 <V453000> right, so the issue I am talking about is known (?) :) 22:59:21 <Rubidium> yes 22:59:41 <V453000> ok :D 22:59:42 <Ammler> eihter ask devs to make a quirk mode or mb for christmas dbset release :-) 23:00:16 <V453000> I will just disable steam 23:00:29 <V453000> (not like I am going to use ICE3 anyway) 23:00:33 <Ammler> that is possible? 23:00:40 <Rubidium> well... frosch is going to look at the ttdpatch and openttd 1.0.x implementation and see if they match. If so, the specs get updated and part of Hirundo's match the specs stuff gets reverted 23:01:35 <V453000> Ammler: yes, in vehicles options 23:01:55 <V453000> (talking about nightly all the time, I guess you noticed) :) 23:02:10 <Ammler> only thing we care ;-) 23:02:18 <V453000> :))) 23:02:22 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 23:04:59 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823305.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: gn8] 23:08:08 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AF48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:18:11 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6BE53.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 23:20:07 *** yorick [yorick@hurf.minds.durf.alike.shellium.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A052.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:31:50 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:51 *** staaN [~Miranda@p4FD8444F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:58 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-113.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:44:06 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4868.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own]