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00:02:08 <Zuu> You could also try to load the game in 1.1 in non-dedicated mode and use the feature to fetch missing NewGRFs from bananas. 00:02:21 <Zuu> Good night 00:03:54 <alba-andy> aye something not right here 00:04:03 <alba-andy> thanks for the suggestions 00:11:54 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:23:17 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC52C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:27:45 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:48:00 *** fjb is now known as Guest3549 00:48:02 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFFDD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:52:25 <alba-andy> can someone take a look at this error message http://pastebin.com/k32g7LjZ 00:52:39 <alba-andy> im just trying to get a specific map loading in a 1.1 server 00:53:03 <alba-andy> i doubt that there are any AI's installed, would that cause the crash? 00:53:08 <alba-andy> ... or the not loading 00:55:05 *** Guest3549 [~frank@p5DDFD828.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:09 *** rellig [~rellig@argon247.server4you.de] has joined #openttd 01:11:10 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFFDD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:30 *** rellig_107 [~rellig@argon247.server4you.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:09 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFAA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:16:12 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:31:06 *** Bilge [5c1cc568@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 01:31:49 <alba-andy> is there a way to download content via the commandline? 01:31:55 <alba-andy> aka shell access 01:34:26 <alba-andy> i have found it impossible to move a .scn that works on a windows 1.1 to a linux 1.1 server, always same error 01:35:59 <Yexo> alba-andy: did you compile the version on your linux server yourself? 01:36:19 <alba-andy> eh 01:36:26 <alba-andy> probably not 01:36:28 <alba-andy> apt-get 01:36:42 <alba-andy> the server works with a random map 01:37:02 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9d2d:981c:9ba5:54b4] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:37:13 <Yexo> you can try starting the server with -d sl=9 and see if you get more usable output 01:38:02 <alba-andy> dbg: [sl] Nulling pointers 01:38:11 <alba-andy> for 10 or so things 01:38:27 <Yexo> that's normal 01:38:40 <alba-andy> dbg: [sl] All pointers nulled 01:38:40 <alba-andy> dbg: [sl] Game Load Failed 01:38:59 <alba-andy> File not readable 01:39:19 <alba-andy> mmm 01:39:47 <Yexo> you have to give the complete filename as argument ,including .sav 01:39:58 <Yexo> so "openttd -g file.sav" or similar 01:41:10 <alba-andy> does it have to be a .sav or is .scn the same? 01:41:17 <alba-andy> tried both anyway, just wondering 01:41:37 <Yexo> not sure if you can directly load a scenario in a multiplayer server 01:51:11 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:58:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.168.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:26:58 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-253-255.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:59 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-207-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:32 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 03:42:33 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 03:49:40 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 04:42:31 <planetmaker> moin 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7355A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7764B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:41:28 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 05:41:45 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has joined #openttd 05:44:44 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:19:19 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@a80-127-220-162.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:21:32 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0497ba.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:29:33 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:32:21 *** ar3k [~ident@ebt222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 06:39:40 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebr154.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:42:10 *** Heidistein [~arjen@188.142.22.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:23 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:56:59 <Terkhen> good morning 07:03:13 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:05:02 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:08:59 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:15:30 *** Amis [~Amis@dsl51B655EC.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 07:25:09 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:33:46 <Eddi|zuHause> why can't i run X programs from within a screen session? 07:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i log in with ssh -X, and can run them from there. but when i start screen, then i can't anymore 07:34:48 <__ln__> because your $DISPLAY is wrong 07:35:14 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: but why would screen mess with my $DISPLAY? 07:38:04 <__ln__> dunno 07:38:38 <peter1138> existing or new screen session? 07:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i tested both 07:41:56 <peter1138> existing won't work, but new should 07:46:25 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 07:55:23 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC308D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:36:38 *** SpBot [spbot@skrblz.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 10:39:59 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:48:17 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:53:40 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 10:59:34 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFAA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:01:35 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 11:12:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A28E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:16:12 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 11:27:01 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:34:34 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFAA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:37:49 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@marvin-18-230.cnt.nerim.net] has joined #openttd 12:05:11 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6920:5b32:7148:dfa2] has joined #openttd 12:05:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:14:54 *** bdavenport [~bdavenpor@mail.companioncabinet.com] has joined #openttd 12:22:22 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-37-138.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:27:18 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-181-212.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:29:45 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75E3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:31:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7381B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:05 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:39:43 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 12:39:46 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 12:54:20 <ashledombos> hi 12:55:31 <Terkhen> hi ashledombos 12:57:10 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7381B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:57:31 <ashledombos> I just wonder, would it be possible to upgrade mediawiki to a newer version? 12:58:47 <ashledombos> not necessarily the last one, but there is some intersting stuff such as better organization of special pages 13:01:09 <planetmaker> An upgrade is always a hassle. But maybe that can be done soon-ish when we get a better server 13:02:51 <planetmaker> anything you miss in particular, ashledombos ? 13:08:30 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 13:09:23 <ashledombos> planetmaker: not really a single thing, but many little things :p but no problem, this version is good enough anyway 13:10:05 <planetmaker> the better server might be nearer to us than one might assume ;-) 13:10:07 <Belugas> hi 13:10:15 <planetmaker> hi Belugas 13:11:34 <Terkhen> hi Belugas 13:12:27 <Belugas> hi guys :) 13:17:11 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73ECD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:20:02 <ashledombos> hi Belugas :) 13:20:20 <Belugas> good day sir :) 13:44:41 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:45:17 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 13:45:20 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 14:01:35 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:05:46 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 14:05:49 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 14:09:00 *** Bilge [5c1cc568@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:16:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "44 of 58 french nuclear power stations may need to shut down due to dry, hot weather" 14:17:49 <planetmaker> "grundlast-tauglich" :-P 14:29:18 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:41:43 *** Pulec|OUT [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:44:12 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:45:49 *** Pulec|OUT is now known as Pulec 14:51:40 <Belugas> Dave W ? a God? God... 14:52:07 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.108.152] has joined #openttd 14:55:08 <V453000> :) 14:55:28 <planetmaker> Belugas, do you know Terry Pratchet's disc world? 14:55:31 <Terkhen> of fools? :P 14:55:53 <planetmaker> Then you also know what god can be ;-) 14:58:06 <TWerkhoven> oooh, discworld 14:58:34 <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_gods#Small_gods 14:58:37 <planetmaker> :-D 14:58:44 <TWerkhoven> we got em all here 14:59:04 <TWerkhoven> though we can't seem to find thief of time atm 14:59:09 <planetmaker> I got bored after half a dozen novels, it got repetitive. But it's good 15:01:53 <Rubidium> Belugas: he's probably dyslexic 15:15:08 <Belugas> planetmaker : no, does not ring a bell. Rubidium: I'd say delirious ;) 15:16:31 <Rubidium> Belugas: dog: a) a worthless or contemptible person, b) fellow, chap <a lazy dog> <you lucky dog> 15:16:58 <Belugas> :) 15:22:00 <peter1138> ah, pterry 15:23:09 <peter1138> discworld's less fantasy these days 15:44:21 <glx> <Eddi|zuHause> "44 of 58 french nuclear power stations may need to shut down due to dry, hot weather" <-- yes, water level in rivers is too low 15:47:42 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@marvin-18-230.cnt.nerim.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:40 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0497ba.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:40:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5c45.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:42:38 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC308D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 16:46:22 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:51:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:11:52 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-066-103-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:15:20 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 17:18:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host158-161-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:19:22 <Wolf01> evenink 17:19:35 <planetmaker> hello Wolf01 17:25:45 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-192.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:27:22 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 17:45:23 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r22545 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt dutch.txt): 17:45:23 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:23 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: dutch - 37 changes by Parody 17:45:23 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 11 changes by Tucalipe 17:46:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-249-196.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:07:44 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:08:54 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 18:22:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 18:22:52 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:57 <andythenorth> hola 18:23:14 *** Thorn_ [~Thorn@osirion.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:23:32 <Terkhen> hola andythenorth 18:23:39 <andythenorth> que tal? 18:23:42 <andythenorth> ¿ 18:24:05 <Terkhen> programando cosas muy confusas :P 18:24:50 <andythenorth> spanish is quite efficient 18:24:58 <andythenorth> it uses fewer words like 'is' 18:25:21 <andythenorth> english-as-commonly-used is less efficient 18:25:26 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:25:32 <Terkhen> but words are usually a lot longer, in english you can say more writing less 18:26:23 <andythenorth> yup 18:26:30 * Terkhen is close to a working implementation of town persistent storage 18:26:35 <andythenorth> ooh 18:26:41 <Terkhen> where working != nice :P 18:26:42 <andythenorth> electricity :P 18:26:50 <andythenorth> that would be shiny 18:26:58 <andythenorth> although with that + YACD my head might explode 18:27:17 <Terkhen> after this is tested, made nice and done, I plan to review the proposed variables and callbacks for town control 18:27:42 <planetmaker> holla andythenorth 18:28:20 <andythenorth> Terkhen: if you're pursuing town growth, it might be worth some discussion about how a (theoretical) goals framework might work 18:28:23 <Terkhen> after the proposed specs are refined, I guess that posting them at the forums for wider reviews should be the next step 18:28:24 <andythenorth> I'm not suggesting to implement it 18:28:49 <Terkhen> yes, that's a good point 18:28:58 <Terkhen> I'm not going to implement it either, but it should be taken into account 18:29:19 <andythenorth> I wonder if there's a left-turn approach to a goals framework 18:29:26 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:29:28 <Hirundo> Is there any spec/code somewhere on the internets yet? 18:29:30 <Terkhen> probably the owners of all those CITY CHALLENGE servers have something to say regarding to the specs 18:29:30 <andythenorth> like making it external to the game or such 18:29:42 <Terkhen> Hirundo: http://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/Town_Control 18:29:52 <Hirundo> thanks 18:30:29 <Terkhen> I'm implementing option 1 for persistent storage, but for now an item has write access only to the town storage associated to its grfid 18:30:36 <Terkhen> and has read access to all 18:31:21 <Terkhen> we are not sure that giving write access to anything is a great idea, and that could be easily added later if deemed necessary 18:31:39 <Terkhen> s/anything/everything/ 18:32:46 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I couldn't do a full electricity implementation without write access for all 18:32:54 <andythenorth> but I could do a near-enough version 18:33:10 <Terkhen> why? 18:33:35 <Terkhen> do you need multiple newgrfs for it? 18:33:39 <andythenorth> probably worth explaining how electricity would work in my idea 18:33:47 <Terkhen> ok :) 18:34:16 <andythenorth> any power-plant of any kind in industry newgrf(s) would write to a town storage register (probably once a month, or when production cb runs) 18:34:57 <andythenorth> in my simple model it only has to write 01h if there was electricity, as I don't care about the amounts (and that will lead to tiresome arguments with electromagnetic equations being produced left, right and centre) 18:35:24 <andythenorth> the register is zeroed once a month 18:35:25 <andythenorth> then any industry or house that wants electricity looks in the town register to see if there is electricity 18:35:45 <andythenorth> so problems: 18:35:52 <andythenorth> (1) how to zero the register 18:36:17 <andythenorth> (2) interaction between say industry grf and town grf 18:36:28 <Rubidium> store the date instead of 1? 18:36:38 <andythenorth> and then measure offsets? would work 18:36:42 <Rubidium> yep 18:36:49 <andythenorth> 'electricity last produce' xx-yy-zz 18:37:17 <andythenorth> Terkhen: their would be a specific grf for town growth? 18:37:29 <andythenorth> there /s 18:37:36 <Rubidium> int diff = cur_date - prod_date; 18:37:40 <Terkhen> hmm... I don't see the need to support power plants from different newgrfs at once (although many industry newgrfs allowing to enable that common behaviour would be nice), but the industry-house communication for this is a valid case 18:37:44 <Rubidium> if (diff < 0) cheater! 18:37:51 <Rubidium> if (diff < 30) good boy! 18:37:52 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-235-244.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:38:05 <Rubidium> else want power, damnit! 18:38:29 <andythenorth> Terkhen: if there is a town grf && that has it's own registers && a monthly cb, there is no problem 18:38:37 <Terkhen> andythenorth: another option that we discussed was to set some GrfIDs as common storage, for example 0xFFXXXXXX 18:39:01 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:39:04 <andythenorth> yes that would work too 18:39:17 <andythenorth> I think there are probably multiple valid routes 18:39:27 <andythenorth> I dislike multiple things writing to same registers 18:39:31 <andythenorth> it's recipe for disaster 18:39:47 <andythenorth> I have caused bugs in my own grf with persistent storage collisions 18:39:55 <Rubidium> imo this would be a prime example of some shared usage of a register. However, I would say that these shared bits *MUST* be documented in the nfo specs 18:39:58 <andythenorth> having to account for other authors is Bad Idea 18:40:15 <andythenorth> are labels out of the question? 18:40:30 <andythenorth> the other way to think about this: is electricity even a good idea? 18:42:45 <frosch123> it does not matter whether it is a good idea or not. if it is possible someone will do it :p 18:43:23 <andythenorth> not if it's not possible :P 18:43:26 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:43:37 <Hirundo> frosch123: that's rule 34.... 18:43:44 <andythenorth> we could add un-features :P 18:43:51 <frosch123> but yes, if there are common variable writeable by many, it should not end up like cargo classes :p 18:43:59 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-148-9.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:44:41 <frosch123> thus it is a good idea to first let some grfs try some stuff in their private area 18:44:50 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 18:44:58 <Terkhen> yes 18:45:01 <frosch123> to gain experience 18:46:44 * andythenorth tries to create a case for vehicles to write to town storage 18:47:02 <andythenorth> he 18:47:14 <andythenorth> real transport companies name ships and trains after cities sometimes 18:47:36 * andythenorth wonders how town storage supports that 18:47:52 <andythenorth> :D 18:48:09 <frosch123> i guess it is a good idea to not make towns accessible to vehicles :p 18:48:50 <andythenorth> ho 18:49:04 <andythenorth> if the town has no electricity, all the trams could stop :P 18:49:14 <andythenorth> maybe railtypes need access to town storage too 18:49:22 <andythenorth> with a cb to set powered / unpowered 18:50:16 <andythenorth> if towns could store some value for 'maintenance' 18:50:18 <frosch123> here railroad are supplied completely independent from houses/industries 18:50:28 <andythenorth> we could use cb36 to make vehicles slower and less reliable :P 18:50:35 <andythenorth> hmm 18:50:44 <andythenorth> a maintenance truck could 'store' to a town 18:50:50 <andythenorth> snow ploughs! 18:50:55 <frosch123> the same in sweden and switzerland 18:50:59 <andythenorth> fire trucks! 18:51:12 <andythenorth> street sweepers! 18:51:15 <frosch123> do not know about the supply of other railroads 18:51:30 <andythenorth> never give someone like me a new feature to fool with :P 18:51:32 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db1a4bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:52:15 <Terkhen> :D 18:52:29 <Terkhen> IIRC vehicles already have a PARENT 18:52:34 * andythenorth thinks vehicles should be able to write to their town :D 18:52:43 <Terkhen> sorry, no parent.parent() :) 18:52:45 <andythenorth> which is probably very horrible 18:52:55 <andythenorth> they'd have to go via their current tile? 18:53:02 <andythenorth> probably on every tick? 18:53:21 <Terkhen> huh, that would slow the game to a crawl 18:53:51 <andythenorth> :D 18:54:26 <andythenorth> hmm 18:54:32 <andythenorth> what could objects do with towns? 18:54:34 <andythenorth> ¿ 18:57:50 <andythenorth> do objects have classes or such? 18:58:13 <Rubidium> hai 18:58:33 <Rubidium> like station classes 18:58:53 * andythenorth -> specs 18:58:58 <andythenorth> newgrf.org :P 18:59:22 <andythenorth> ho. This is nice http://pics.lakie.net/newObject-ActionStructure.png 18:59:39 <Lakie> Bit out of date though 18:59:51 <Rubidium> heh... that's what I wanted to say :( 18:59:56 <andythenorth> so classes are organising features, they say nothing about the object 19:00:00 <Lakie> Bt the basics of required bits are accurate enough 19:00:11 <Lakie> Pretty much 19:00:21 <Lakie> The method of grouping. 19:00:37 <Lakie> And views would be the equivlent of sub grouping to some 19:00:40 <andythenorth> so a town couldn't use those to express a preference between say....cellphone towers and ski-slopes 19:01:37 <andythenorth> hmm 19:01:37 <Lakie> Unlikely 19:01:39 * andythenorth ponders evil 19:01:51 <andythenorth> if a town had lighthouses, ships could sink less 19:02:00 <andythenorth> this presupposes several unlikely things 19:02:00 <Lakie> You could specify a specific class tag, but it would get messy. 19:04:24 <andythenorth> hmm 19:04:30 <andythenorth> a town could have prevailing weather :P 19:04:49 * andythenorth may not be very helpful 19:12:29 <Terkhen> andythenorth: you are helpful, I'm getting a good idea of how town storage could be abused :P 19:12:54 <andythenorth> I haven't considered what stations can do yet 19:13:21 <andythenorth> ho 19:13:25 <andythenorth> here's an easy one. cb39 19:13:41 <andythenorth> construct a partial supply-and-demand economy 19:13:55 <andythenorth> the demand side would be modelled by spot-rate calculations for cargo payment 19:13:58 <andythenorth> on a per-town basis 19:14:07 <andythenorth> the supply side wouldn't be modelled 19:14:13 <andythenorth> this would play very badly with yacd :P 19:14:50 <andythenorth> I suspect if I explore the 60+ vars, the demand side is close to possible already 19:16:33 <andythenorth> I have run out of other interesting things to do 19:16:48 <andythenorth> varying graphics by town might interest some, but is partly possible already 19:16:55 <andythenorth> town control would allow it to be more controllable 19:22:07 <Terkhen> first house could check a certain variable and if not set, set it to something random that would determine buildings for that town? 19:24:18 <andythenorth> yes 19:24:42 <Terkhen> cool 19:24:43 <andythenorth> there needs to be some form of master control for a town though 19:24:48 <andythenorth> not sure how that runs 19:24:58 <andythenorth> probably a cb 19:25:11 <andythenorth> runs every so many ticks 19:25:17 <andythenorth> similar to industry production cb 19:26:24 <Terkhen> master control of what type? town growth? 19:26:43 <andythenorth> yes 19:27:15 <andythenorth> the town itself is likely to need storage, which other grfs will not be writing to 19:28:13 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC308D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:29:07 <Terkhen> town callbacks should probably be able to access the persistent storage of the grfid that defines them 19:29:43 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host19-60-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:29:44 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3653 19:29:44 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 19:30:28 <andythenorth> hmm 19:30:38 * andythenorth has an idea for permitting read-write between grfs 19:31:08 <andythenorth> assume a public storage location, maybe the town 19:31:13 <andythenorth> which all grfs can read-write to 19:31:26 <andythenorth> with n locations 19:31:44 <andythenorth> the convention for what to put in those locations is governed by a schema 19:31:49 <andythenorth> (agreed between grf authors) 19:32:11 <andythenorth> grfs can implement multiple schemas 19:32:16 <andythenorth> but only one can be active at once 19:32:37 <andythenorth> the determination of which schema is used is basically a vote system between the active newgrfs 19:32:43 <andythenorth> most common schema wins 19:33:13 <andythenorth> so schema A might say delivered food is in 01h, electricity supply is in 0Ah etc 19:33:47 <andythenorth> schema B might say electricity is in 01h and number of ham sandwiches delivered is in 1Ah 19:34:05 <andythenorth> schemas have unique ID (dword) 19:34:17 <andythenorth> better or worse than a label system 19:34:17 <andythenorth> ? 19:35:27 *** Guest3653 [~wolf01@host158-161-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:35:34 <andythenorth> incidentally cargo labels are fine and good and work well. It's only cargo classes that are flawed 19:35:55 <andythenorth> and those only by some poor implementation choices, the design principle is ok 19:41:20 <Terkhen> andythenorth: that would be the next step once that the feature is tested: allowing common write access between newgrfs 19:41:55 <Terkhen> common scheme decided between different authors might cause problems of compatibility with sets outside the group 19:42:23 <andythenorth> but no scheme at all causes madness.... 19:42:42 <andythenorth> sets that can't subscribe to the prevailing schema in this game can't write 19:42:47 <andythenorth> and possibly get disabled :P 19:43:24 <Terkhen> but for example, should FIRS stop working with house sets that don't follow its common scheme? 19:43:43 <andythenorth> depends who's winning the scheme war in this game 19:43:59 <andythenorth> if there is a town control grf, FIRS, and a house set 19:44:03 <Terkhen> IMO it should be optional 19:44:10 <andythenorth> if town control grf + FIRS agree on schema, the house set loses 19:44:12 <Terkhen> if the newgrfs are not present, the feature is disabled 19:44:59 <Terkhen> I think that the industry sets should not control town control 19:45:07 <Terkhen> a town control NewGRF should implement a given scheme 19:45:24 <Terkhen> the town control author makes the set compatible with certain industry sets 19:45:34 <Terkhen> for example, if I create a "all towns require food for growth" scheme 19:45:51 <Terkhen> I could detect FIRS, or if OpenGFX+ Industries has its food chain enabled 19:46:57 <andythenorth> how does the industry newgrf know where to write to? 19:47:03 <andythenorth> hmm 19:47:10 <Terkhen> good question, I was forgetting that :P 19:47:19 <andythenorth> storage location could be abstracted and treated as the internal business of the town newgrf 19:47:31 <andythenorth> there could be a get/set cb 19:47:40 <andythenorth> using labels or such 19:50:54 <Terkhen> why? town grf would access with its own grfid 19:51:09 <Terkhen> also, what to do if multiple newgrfs try to use the same town callbacks is not defined 19:51:24 <Terkhen> there are some pointers in the specs but I have to read them in more depth 19:55:56 <frosch123> if possible their effects shall add up 19:56:16 <frosch123> e.g. if there would be some general monthly callback, everyone shall be called 19:56:32 <Terkhen> for stuff like town growth that makes sense 19:56:57 <Terkhen> but what about town radius? I still don't know how exactly it works, but it does not sound like something that can add up 19:57:26 <frosch123> yeah, for that one it makes not much sense 19:57:43 <frosch123> though a grf could say, i do not want to change the defaults for this town, ask some other 19:58:01 <Terkhen> and then the next newgrf kicks in? 19:58:08 <Terkhen> that behaviour makes sense 19:58:24 <Terkhen> I don't think that mixing town controls newgrfs should be recommended anyways :P 19:59:29 <frosch123> addition text could be useful for completely town-unrelated stuff 19:59:50 <Terkhen> for example? 20:00:10 <frosch123> anyway, iirc other "generic callbacks" are also supposed to be called across multiple grfs 20:01:12 <frosch123> Terkhen: a industry grf displaying: this town is too small for a bank, or this town is likely to spawn coal mines, or whatever 20:01:22 <Terkhen> oh, I see :) 20:01:50 * Terkhen checks those generic callbacks 20:02:31 <frosch123> not sure whether that mechanism is implemented in ottd though 20:02:35 <andythenorth> there should be no equivalent of pool for town newgrfs 20:02:37 <andythenorth> one and only one 20:02:52 <andythenorth> anything else is asking for troubles 20:03:17 <andythenorth> users *will* add multiple if they're not prevented from doing so 20:04:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: you could archieve that by addinng callback flags for critical callbacks, and only allow one grf to enable them 20:04:24 <frosch123> but you cannot say that in general 20:04:33 <andythenorth> would you scan and disable town grfs if multiple were enabled? 20:04:53 <Terkhen> I guess that "Ambient sound effects" is a good example of generic callback, and it makes sense to chain it through different newgrfs 20:04:58 <frosch123> e.g. take the "display cargo delivery in town gui"-callback. that is useful for town growth, but might as well be interesting for industry production changes 20:05:11 <frosch123> Terkhen: yeah, but not implemented in ottd :p 20:05:17 <Terkhen> :D 20:05:29 <Terkhen> then I'll delete my note to check how it is implemented :P 20:05:32 <frosch123> afaik we only have the AI newstation selection 20:06:31 <Terkhen> additional text should definitely be chained 20:06:45 <frosch123> GetGenericCallbackResult seems to have some iterator 20:06:45 <Terkhen> decide town growth... probably, specially if it is a signed value 20:07:24 <Terkhen> cargo requirements could make things really complicated if chained 20:10:42 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: TTW - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 20:22:03 *** Amis [~Amis@dsl51B655EC.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:29:32 *** DDR [~DDR@d99-199-10-67.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:33:22 <Zuu> A thunderstorm just arrived and I was shooting as crazy with my camera to maybe get a lightning on picture. However, the best lightning came just seconds after I ended a long series of shots :-( 20:35:33 <Zuu> But I guess it is really hard to get a shot at the right moment and I don't know exactly which lightning conditions to set up the camera for. 20:37:51 <Zuu> Hmm, but maybe one should go for a really small shutter and low ISO so that the shutting time can be long to increase the chances of getting something. 20:38:45 <planetmaker> yes. 20:38:57 <planetmaker> several seconds exposure can help 20:39:11 <Ammler> or use a camera which is faster as light 20:39:14 <planetmaker> but still, it's a lot of luck 20:39:28 <Zuu> yea as you can't react and push the button when you see it. 20:39:31 *** bdavenport [~bdavenpor@mail.companioncabinet.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:46 <Rubidium> superhivision camera ;) 20:40:01 <planetmaker> Zuu: well. You just need to take images constantly ;-) 20:40:29 <planetmaker> 20s exposure, 3s dead time, 20s exposure,... ;-) 20:40:32 <Rubidium> = 33 megapixel camera @ 120 Hz 20:40:44 <planetmaker> and the best lightening of course is in the dead time or wrong direction 20:40:51 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:42:37 <planetmaker> anyway... I'll hope for a thunderstorm. It just pretended to come... 20:42:47 <planetmaker> but good night for now :-) 20:43:33 <andythenorth> bye planetmaker 20:43:51 <Terkhen> good night planetmaker 20:45:41 *** Osk [asdasdasda@pc-77-207-47-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #openttd 20:54:45 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:25 *** lasershock` [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:35 *** _goblin_ [~goblin@dslb-092-074-204-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:59:12 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:01:35 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5c45.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:47 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-066-103-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:03:06 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-065-228-102.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:03:12 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 21:03:15 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 21:04:30 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3660 21:04:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:06:39 <bodis> hi 21:06:52 *** _goblin_ [~goblin@dslb-092-074-204-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:10 <bodis> which train is better for 7 13 cargo carts, 2400 HP or 4000 HP? 21:07:34 <bodis> well 7 lengh station :) 21:08:16 <Terkhen> hi bodis 21:08:21 <bodis> hey 21:09:51 *** Guest3660 [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:12:37 <bodis> so how about these trains? 21:12:46 <bodis> is speed or horse power better? 21:13:33 <Terkhen> I don't know :P 21:13:38 <bodis> hehe :) 21:13:40 <Terkhen> run some tests 21:13:44 <bodis> k :) 21:13:55 <Terkhen> if the train does not get enough speed, add another engine or change to a model with better power 21:14:39 <bodis> ohh you can have 2 engines? 21:14:45 <bodis> omg :) 21:15:30 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 21:15:33 <Terkhen> yes, buy another one and drag it to your existing train 21:15:43 <Terkhen> otherwise it is impossible to make those insanely long trains 21:15:52 *** ChoHag [~mking@109-170-148-201.xdsl.murphx.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:32 <bodis> what do you mean insanely long? 21:16:41 <bodis> 14 is the max isnt it? 21:17:06 <Ammler> 128ish 21:17:43 <Ammler> maybe 14 is without mammot setting? 21:18:04 <glx> HP is more important than max speed (especially with wagon speed limit) 21:18:09 <Terkhen> bodis: max lenght with mammoth trains is 64 tiles 21:18:20 <bodis> OMG 21:18:28 <bodis> Dont think I want that 21:18:29 <Ammler> Terkhen: are you sure? :-) 21:19:06 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:19:43 <Terkhen> not 100% because I have not tested right now, but I'm quite sure 21:21:35 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 21:23:52 *** Bilge [5c1cc568@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:24:06 <Bilge> Is there any reason to choose monorail over electric rail? They seem to support the same trains 21:24:58 <Terkhen> Bilge: that depends on your NewGRF selection 21:25:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:25:35 <Terkhen> for example, with default trains they are quite different 21:30:24 <Ammler> I am quite sure, we made trains longer 100 tiles 21:30:39 *** ChoHag [~mking@109-170-148-201.xdsl.murphx.net] has joined #openttd 21:31:08 <Ammler> you don't have a station for this length, but well, that should be changed anyway :-) 21:31:37 <Ammler> is station spread really a technical limit? 21:32:26 <Terkhen> Ammler: try with 1.1.1, trains are limited to 64 tiles via setting, I don't know what was the situation before and how are those extra long trains handled now 21:32:41 <Ammler> hmm 21:32:54 <Ammler> Terkhen: any reason for that low limit? 21:33:07 <Terkhen> there was a bug report associated to it IIRC 21:33:13 <Terkhen> sorry, my memory sucks :) 21:35:26 <Ammler> well, it makes sense to limit it to station spread 21:35:42 <Ammler> that limit sucks, though 21:37:28 <Bilge> I still don't get what's different about monorail 21:37:37 <Bilge> Are trains faster on monorail than electric or something? 21:37:50 <Ammler> aren't? 21:37:58 <Terkhen> Bilge: as I said, it depends on your NewGRF selection 21:38:56 <Terkhen> for me, without any NewGRFs, monorail trains use different engines than electric and they are faster 21:39:14 <Terkhen> but without knowing what are you using we can only guess 21:39:59 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db1a4bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 21:43:21 <Ammler> oh, >5 was already mammoth 21:44:46 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-192.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:50:54 <Bilge> Can you see chat history in multiplayer? 21:51:00 <Bilge> Or if you miss a message is it gone forever? 21:51:29 <Terkhen> open the console to check it, in my keyboard it is open by pressing º, I don't know which key is used in other layouts 21:53:26 <Ammler> always left of one 21:55:49 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-065-228-102.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:57:08 <Bilge> Thanks 21:57:13 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:58:01 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:58:28 <Bilge> I'm sure I saw a setting somewhere to adjust new industry development... is it somewhere? I can't find it :( 21:58:42 <Bilge> This scenario hasn't got any industries 21:59:53 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:06:08 <Wolf01> 'night 22:06:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host19-60-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:06:24 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 22:06:35 <Bilge> Is there a setting to control the frequency of automatic new industry development? 22:07:17 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:38 <Terkhen> Bilge: number of industries, but I don't know if you can change it in a running game or not 22:07:40 <Terkhen> good night 22:19:09 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:17 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@2002:6d4a:c7b0::1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:59 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@kamina.ldn1.uk.e43.eu] has joined #openttd 22:20:49 *** Core_UK [~core@client-81-105-213-204.mcr-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #openttd 22:21:57 <Core_UK> oi 22:23:50 <Bilge> Doesn't matter anyway this mod is bugged to hell, none of the new industries actually ever finish building 22:25:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the easiest way to test connection speed (LAN)? 22:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, without any other influence factors like hd speed 22:28:06 <joho> write a program that generates a lot of data in memory and sends it 22:28:22 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-101-128.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:28:40 <Vikthor> you could try fetching around files from/to ramdisk 22:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure that "write a program" is not "easy" 22:33:09 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 22:34:01 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-37-138.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:34:13 <joho> depends on your programming knowledge! 22:35:08 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:29 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-101-128.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:38 <Core_UK> depends on the program :P 22:39:45 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC308D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 22:40:23 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 22:45:06 <Eddi|zuHause> interesting, i switched cables, but didn't lose the connection 22:46:50 <joho> irc connections doesnt reset until it detects a ping loss 22:46:55 <joho> so if you're quick it just lets it pass 22:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant _any_ connection, ssh and the like, or the ppp connection 22:47:58 <joho> quicker than your own shadow 22:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and i had to go through the wohle house, must have taken several tens of seconds 22:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause> according to the log, 40 seconds 22:50:17 *** DDR [~DDR@d99-199-10-67.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 22:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but there must be something wrong with one of the cables, with one i got 500kB/s, with the other i get 11MB/s 22:51:55 <joho> definitly sounds like its broken 22:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a brand new stretch of cables, we installed them two days ago 22:52:38 <joho> check the rj-45's 22:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause> later 22:57:06 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A34A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:26 *** Osk [asdasdasda@pc-77-207-47-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:36:24 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:43:17 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.204.85.105] has joined #openttd 23:51:06 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:49 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into]