Log for #openttd on 8th June 2011:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:02:17  *** JVassie [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:05:50  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:10:44  *** DoubleYou [] has joined #openttd
00:11:13  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
00:12:48  *** welshdragon [] has left #openttd [Leaving]
00:27:37  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
00:32:37  *** mikegrb [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:36:41  *** mikegrb [] has joined #openttd
00:40:26  *** enr1x [] has joined #openttd
00:40:54  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:51:14  *** enr1x [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
01:14:26  *** fjb is now known as Guest3816
01:14:27  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
01:14:52  *** dfox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:19:52  *** Bilge [~bilge@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:21:47  *** Guest3816 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:30:18  *** Intexon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:49:19  *** supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:25:41  *** rhaeder1 [] has joined #openttd
02:31:07  *** rhaeder [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:06:29  *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d473:6e41:9fb4:20f3] has quit [Quit: bye]
03:14:31  *** tparker [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
03:22:14  *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:9541] has joined #openttd
03:25:21  *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:9541] has quit []
03:34:29  *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:9541] has joined #openttd
03:34:48  *** Kurimus [] has joined #openttd
03:53:20  *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:9541] has quit [Quit: leaving]
03:53:36  <Terkhen> good morning
03:58:31  *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:9541] has joined #openttd
04:05:19  <planetmaker> moin
04:55:20  <bodis> morning
04:55:53  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:56:10  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
05:01:20  <Terkhen> hi bodis
05:01:31  <bodis> hey
05:14:59  <planetmaker> moin bodis
05:24:00  <bodis> didnt realize that passengers are as good income source as any industry
05:24:17  <bodis> playing with no industries at all and doing just fine :)
05:26:09  <Terkhen> your vehicles don't have to travel back empty :)
05:26:57  <bodis> yep :)
05:28:21  <bodis> ok work
05:28:23  <bodis> cya laters
05:28:44  *** bodis [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:30:31  <planetmaker> hm... subsprites don't seem to support palettes
05:56:34  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
05:57:03  *** Netsplit <-> quits: tparker, Vadtec, DoubleYou
05:57:29  *** Netsplit over, joins: tparker, DoubleYou, Vadtec
06:02:15  *** Br33z4hSlut5 [] has joined #openttd
06:03:41  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:05:20  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@] has joined #openttd
06:08:10  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:19:10  *** bryjen [~bryjen@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
06:30:20  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
06:32:29  *** ar3kaw [] has joined #openttd
06:39:45  *** ar3k [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:47:42  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
06:57:18  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
07:04:21  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
07:05:32  *** Cybertinus [] has joined #openttd
07:17:48  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
07:19:22  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
07:23:46  <andythenorth> Rubidium: it looks like bananas stores some configuration information (ottd versions etc) in mysql?
07:24:16  *** ashledombos [] has joined #openttd
07:37:04  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
07:43:52  *** DoubleYou [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:45:44  *** DoubleYou [] has joined #openttd
07:57:48  <dihedral> oi :-)
07:58:46  *** bb10X [] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
07:58:53  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
08:02:47  <Terkhen> hi dihedral
08:05:28  *** ben__ [~wircer@] has joined #openttd
08:05:59  <ben__> Hi
08:06:08  <Terkhen> hi ben__
08:06:13  *** ben__ [~wircer@] has left #openttd []
08:07:10  <dihedral> bye ben__
08:07:57  <Terkhen> patience is a scarce virtue :)
08:10:20  <dihedral> virtue was never one of my virtues
08:26:50  <planetmaker> virtual virtues ;-)
08:28:42  <Terkhen> in the base person class, virtues are virtual functions and have empty implementations that return nothing
08:28:55  <Terkhen> most people don't reimplement those functions
08:32:06  *** Gibono [] has joined #openttd
08:32:16  <Gibono> hello
08:32:34  <Terkhen> hi Gibono
08:33:19  <Gibono> thank you for the job you are accomplishing on openttd
08:33:32  <Gibono> it's a pleasure to play this  game again
08:35:40  <Terkhen> you are welcome Gibono, it's a pleasure to work on it too :)
08:37:21  <planetmaker> :-)
08:43:09  <planetmaker> [10:28]	Terkhen	in the base person class, virtues are virtual functions and have empty implementations that return nothing
08:43:10  <planetmaker> [10:29]	Terkhen	most people don't reimplement those functions
08:43:12  <planetmaker> ^^ hehe :-) well said
08:44:29  * Terkhen has a broken implementation of diligence
08:45:06  <planetmaker> he
08:45:11  <Terkhen> :P
08:45:19  * planetmaker knows another such person
08:46:11  <Terkhen> if (days_to_due_date >= threshold) return procrastinate;
08:46:30  <Terkhen> but the threshold becomes smaller every day too
08:52:18  <planetmaker> can be interpreted as efficiency, though ;-)
08:53:07  <Terkhen> only if I succeed :P
08:57:21  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
09:00:49  *** Bilge [~bilge@] has joined #openttd
09:35:55  <Bilge>
09:41:11  <Bilge> Some degree of tram support is included in OTTD itself right?
09:43:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. all tram support is included in OpenTTD. just not any tram
09:44:10  <__ln__> and this isn't the least bit ridiculous, is it
09:51:02  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
09:53:06  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
09:57:32  <Bilge> Probably not given that it seems to be bugged
09:57:51  <Bilge> My only question would be as to what is at fault - OTTD or the newgrf
10:01:30  <Terkhen> depends on the bug
10:07:01  <Bilge> Trams passing through each other
10:07:45  <Terkhen> that's not a tram bug
10:07:51  <Terkhen> the same happens with regular road vehicles :)
10:08:04  <Bilge> Only time I've seen that is when they fail to overtake properly
10:08:27  <Terkhen> they also overtake through other vehicles, and start driving through other vehicles if a jam is completely stopped for enough time
10:08:37  <Bilge> I had two trams queued up at a station while the first one was taking its sweet time loading a full load of cargo
10:08:46  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
10:08:52  <Bilge> Eventually it got bored of waiting and just decided to pass through it
10:09:03  <Eddi|zuHause> yep, those are quantum effects
10:09:17  <Terkhen> :P
10:09:26  <Eddi|zuHause> advanced settings -> vehicles -> road vehicle queueing (with quantum effects)
10:09:45  <planetmaker> he, that's even an adv. setting?
10:10:13  <Eddi|zuHause> at least it used to be...
10:10:19  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
10:10:20  <Terkhen> I remember something like that, yes
10:11:59  <planetmaker> obviously I didn't do an adv. setting / rcon comptition for a long time ;-)
10:12:08  <planetmaker> And even then Ammler won the last time :-P
10:12:18  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's in vehicles->pathfinder
10:12:30  <Terkhen> what is an rcon competition?
10:12:33  <Terkhen> s/an/a/
10:13:29  <planetmaker> :-) It was a kinda fun: Like "what's the setting name to stop a town growing?" - "what's the setting name for max. train length" etc
10:13:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it can be "an" at that place ;)
10:13:47  <planetmaker> those who failed first to provide the proper answer looses ;-)
10:13:52  <planetmaker> looking at cfg doesn't count
10:14:08  <Terkhen> oh, I was thinking on something more spectacular :P
10:14:12  <planetmaker> i.e. a competition to remember most settings ;-)
10:14:18  <planetmaker> sorry to disappoint you ;-)
10:14:43  <planetmaker> it was a bit about who can configure faster the server to the desired settings - that's where it evolved from
10:14:44  <Terkhen> mess with the advanced settings, the first one to utterly destroy the savegame wins
10:14:57  <planetmaker> sort of :-P
10:16:24  <planetmaker> but we played with our life server :-P
10:16:48  <planetmaker>  set settingname just gives the value so one doesn't need to destroy anything ;-)
10:17:03  <Terkhen> :)
10:18:20  *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has joined #openttd
10:23:53  <Chris_Booth> seems like a boring game
10:25:31  <planetmaker> after 5 or 10 minutes you're done ;-)
10:25:41  <planetmaker> and don't need to repeat it for a year at least
10:30:17  <Chris_Booth> you could play list that coop save
10:30:32  <Chris_Booth> but I know who would win that one, unless you didn't allow them to join in
10:39:55  *** keky___ [] has joined #openttd
10:40:41  *** keky___ [] has quit []
10:40:48  *** keky___ [] has joined #openttd
11:02:44  *** tycoondemon [] has joined #openttd
11:07:02  *** Intexon [] has joined #openttd
11:14:03  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
11:17:32  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... rather dark outside
11:19:20  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:26:36  *** Intexon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:47:41  *** JVassie [] has joined #openttd
11:58:43  *** welshdragon [] has joined #openttd
12:07:06  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
12:21:45  *** fjb [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:22:02  *** Neon [] has joined #openttd
12:25:59  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
12:33:27  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
12:39:23  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
12:45:51  *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:495e:99ea:8bf9:b31e] has joined #openttd
12:45:54  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
12:47:37  *** enr1x [] has joined #openttd
12:55:56  *** DoubleYou [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:02:38  *** perk11 [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
13:05:23  <Belugas> hello
13:06:20  *** blathijs_ is now known as blathijs
13:16:21  *** Gibono [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:16:37  *** Gibono [] has joined #openttd
13:17:52  <fjb> Moin Belugas
13:18:14  <Belugas> sir fjb, i wasve at you
13:18:35  * fjb waves back.
13:20:12  <planetmaker> ho fjb :-)
13:21:20  * Vikthor waves at the whale-man and rest of you
13:24:41  *** Gibono [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:25:02  <fjb> Moin planetmaker
13:25:10  <fjb> Moin Vikthor
13:25:58  *** Gibono [] has joined #openttd
13:32:24  * Belugas waves and waves and dives and bubbles
13:40:52  *** Adambean [] has joined #openttd
13:44:22  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:47:18  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
13:48:25  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit []
13:48:47  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
13:53:11  <__ln__>
13:54:45  <planetmaker> :-D
13:55:05  <Chris_Booth> :DD
13:55:11  <Chris_Booth> that made me lol
13:55:16  <Chris_Booth> got to love idiots
13:56:10  <Chris_Booth> that is a case of: I'd explain it to you, but your brain would explode
14:00:31  *** Gibono [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:01:15  *** Gibono [] has joined #openttd
14:13:44  *** Gibono [] has left #openttd []
14:31:44  *** TWerkhoven [] has joined #openttd
14:36:46  <lugo> Chris_Booth, or like 'i can explain it to you, but i can't comprehend it for you' ;)
14:37:08  <Chris_Booth> XD
14:38:57  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@] has left #openttd []
14:42:20  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
14:43:10  *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3888
14:43:10  *** andythenorth_ [] has joined #openttd
14:43:10  *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth
14:44:43  <Eddi|zuHause> well... he COULD have instead said "where Dracula is from"
14:46:40  *** andythenorth [] has quit []
14:50:24  *** Guest3888 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:03:12  *** Lakie [~Lakie@] has joined #openttd
15:13:01  *** goblin [] has joined #openttd
15:24:39  *** bb10 [] has joined #openttd
15:39:08  *** Br33z4hSlut5 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:46:07  *** ashledombos [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:05:13  <Terkhen> what desktop environments do you use?
16:06:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i use KDE
16:07:35  <Terkhen> I'm planning on testing a few to see if I like a different one, gnome is giving me too many headaches lately
16:08:40  <Ammler> gnome 3?
16:08:57  <Terkhen> yes
16:09:21  <Ammler> I heard, gnome 3 is worse then KDE4 was :-)
16:10:05  <Rubidium> XFCE... though that seems to be getting huge as well :(
16:10:14  <Ammler> xfce is just another gnome
16:10:19  <Ammler> lxde maybe
16:10:44  * planetmaker still uses kde
16:11:17  * Ammler should try egg, the other qt DE
16:11:54  <Terkhen> last time I tested kde I found it a bit confusing
16:12:00  <Terkhen> it was kde 3 IIRC, though
16:12:21  <Ammler> kde might habe too many settings, which gnome has too few
16:13:11  * Rubidium ponders making some "OpenTTD doesn't participate in the 'World IPv6 day'" post on the website
16:13:56  <planetmaker> :-)
16:14:13  * planetmaker found the ipv6 day totally uneventful
16:14:38  * Terkhen will start by testing the DE mentioned here :P
16:15:50  *** Adambean [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:20:32  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
16:25:29  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
16:25:30  <Bilge> What happens if you set the message type to "summary" instead of "full"?
16:25:47  <Bilge> Oh, I see, a news ticker
16:29:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the ticker is bad.
16:29:18  <Eddi|zuHause> don't use it
16:29:38  <Prof_Frink> New Stickers? Where?
16:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it blocks all important messages until the ticker went through
16:29:55  <Eddi|zuHause> which kinda defeats the point
16:31:21  <Prof_Frink> I'd like to see summary messages appear like MP chat
16:31:48  <planetmaker> probably a good idea
16:32:16  <planetmaker> or at least interesting
16:32:55  *** Pulec [] has joined #openttd
16:34:31  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:35:23  <Bilge> So the ticker queue and popup queue aren't separate?
16:37:46  *** bodis [] has joined #openttd
16:37:54  <bodis> hi
16:38:01  <planetmaker> ho
16:38:30  <bodis> :)
16:39:45  <Belugas> # Que hora son mi corazon ?
16:46:42  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 12/15
16:46:42  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.8
16:46:48  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 8/12
16:46:48  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.666666666667
16:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 11/15
16:47:00  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.733333333333
16:47:36  * Rubidium wonders what that was about
16:58:24  * Bilge doesn't
16:59:46  <Eddi|zuHause> divide and conquer. this was the dividing part.
17:00:01  <Eddi|zuHause> "*evil grin*" :p
17:00:10  *** sllide [] has joined #openttd
17:01:02  <Eddi|zuHause> why does the name "Manu Chao" ring a bell?
17:02:48  <Terkhen> he's a singer
17:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i've got that far :p
17:03:08  *** KouDy [] has joined #openttd
17:03:31  <Terkhen> I think he's actually from here, but I don't know much else either :P
17:04:06  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
17:07:55  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
17:12:18  *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@] has joined #openttd
17:12:46  <DanMacK> Hey all
17:12:56  <Terkhen> hi DanMacK
17:26:55  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
17:27:46  <Wolf01> hello
17:35:58  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
17:45:04  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: translators * r22547 /trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt:
17:45:04  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:04  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
17:45:06  * DanMacK waves
17:46:36  * Rubidium waves in the general direction of DanMacKia
17:46:47  <Belugas> is he fro Spain?  I though he was from France
17:46:54  <Belugas> ho well.. he can vry well be :)
17:47:22  * Belugas was right :)
17:47:51  <Belugas> born in Paris in 1961
17:48:00  <Belugas> mmh.. just a tiny older than me
17:48:10  <Belugas> and a bit crasier :)
17:53:36  <Terkhen> 612 MB for kde
17:54:01  <Terkhen> I guess I selected everything :P
17:54:29  <planetmaker> well. 1o/oo for OS is acceptable ;-)
17:54:57  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
17:55:00  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
17:58:01  *** heffer [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:59:24  *** heffer [] has joined #openttd
18:01:59  *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
18:10:12  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
18:11:11  *** andythenorth [] has quit []
18:11:36  * bodis hates kde
18:11:50  <bodis> or anything remotely looking like M$ :P
18:12:06  <Terkhen> bodis: I'm testing a few DE to see which one is the best for me
18:12:16  <bodis> nice
18:12:23  <bodis> gone through that half a year ago
18:12:28  <Terkhen> given that I spend a lot of time on windows too that would not be a problem :P
18:12:40  <bodis> have you tried openbox?
18:12:51  <Terkhen> no, I'll add it to the list of DE to test :)
18:13:00  <bodis> :)
18:13:15  <bodis> well depends how much eye candy you need
18:13:43  <bodis> for me with my minimalistic needs - gedit and openttd, openbox is perfect :P
18:14:04  <Terkhen> not much, but I love features that allow me to do what I want quickly
18:14:19  <Terkhen> gnome 3 had a few, but the cons outweight the pros
18:14:40  <bodis> heh yeah bloaty...
18:14:44  <bodis> like kde
18:14:45  <Terkhen> specially the "crash at random moments" problem
18:14:48  <frosch123> kde 3 was best
18:15:07  <frosch123> it had a really good konsole, and a really good kate
18:15:10  <Terkhen> hmm... I'm installing kde 4.6 right now, but there was a link to a project that maintains kde 3 too
18:15:27  <bodis> well openbox is very minimalistic, but you have to add everything manuallu to menus
18:15:36  <bodis> which aint a problem really :)
18:15:48  <bodis> but you can customize it exactly yto your needs :)
18:15:58  <Terkhen> hmm... that sounds like work :P
18:15:59  <bodis> whats distro you running?
18:16:06  *** keky___ [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
18:16:08  <Terkhen> arch
18:16:10  <bodis> ahh
18:16:18  <frosch123> no idea about the newer kdes, i left kde 4 very quickly after kde 3 was no longer part of the gentoo distribution. but at that point (kde 4.3 or so), both konsole and kate were totally unusable
18:16:32  <bodis> crunchbang debian here
18:16:32  <|Jeroen|> try xfce
18:16:38  <bodis> xfce is nice too
18:16:45  <Terkhen> |Jeroen|: it is on my list of stuff to test :)
18:16:58  <bodis> youll be a busy bot :)
18:17:02  <bodis> boy even
18:17:03  <bodis> :)
18:17:39  <|Jeroen|> then it will win the tests :-p
18:17:56  <bodis> hmm
18:17:58  <Terkhen> yes, but while it downloads I can keep writing documentation or playing openttd
18:18:02  <bodis> not sure :)
18:18:16  <bodis> he sounds like eye candy stuff :P
18:18:34  <Terkhen> who, me?
18:19:38  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
18:19:38  <Terkhen> I don't know, I have only used gnome :P
18:19:43  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
18:19:53  <bodis> :)
18:20:12  <andythenorth> hello
18:20:20  <Alberth> hi andy
18:20:40  <planetmaker> hi andy
18:21:09  <Chris_Booth> hi
18:24:40  <andythenorth> ho
18:24:43  <andythenorth> I think we did it wrong
18:25:04  <Terkhen> what?
18:25:14  <andythenorth> banning changing newgrfs during game
18:25:15  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: what do you think is wrong with current konsole and kate?
18:25:22  <andythenorth> although I was in favour of it
18:25:30  <planetmaker> andythenorth, I still think it's good
18:25:48  <planetmaker> people just are still used to the old ways like "it worked before"
18:26:07  <planetmaker> every single person who asks about it, did it before
18:26:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. it already gets better
18:26:19  <Terkhen> IMO once that scenarios are decoupled from NewGRFs we should remove the option to change NewGRFs completely :)
18:26:37  <Terkhen> but that's a bit drastic I guess
18:26:41  <planetmaker> :-)
18:26:55  <andythenorth> is the newgrf menu visible during game play now?
18:27:00  * andythenorth has no idea
18:27:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it is read-only
18:27:08  <planetmaker> as newgrf list... without options to change anything
18:27:16  <Terkhen> yes, it just lists the NewGRFs
18:27:27  <Alberth> and you can save the preset :p
18:27:30  <andythenorth> should remove it
18:27:33  <planetmaker> nope
18:27:42  <Terkhen> it still shows you warnings on current NewGRFs and so on
18:27:52  <planetmaker> it's missing a parameter view
18:28:04  <planetmaker> that was less trivial than it sounded at first ;-)
18:28:16  <andythenorth> you can change parameters in-game still?
18:28:19  <planetmaker> nope
18:28:26  <andythenorth> interestink
18:28:31  <planetmaker> you can't change anything.
18:28:32  <andythenorth> that must be annoying
18:28:40  <andythenorth> I often change params during game play
18:28:53  <Eddi|zuHause> changing parameters is potentially the same as adding/removing a grf
18:28:58  <planetmaker> ^
18:29:13  <Terkhen> :O
18:29:20  <Terkhen> I completely misunderstood how the saveload code works
18:29:32  *** Pulec [] has quit []
18:29:35  <planetmaker> hm?
18:29:57  <Terkhen> sorry, I just realized why town storage wasn't being saved
18:30:00  <andythenorth> how often does adding a grf cause things to go boom?
18:30:21  <planetmaker> often enough.
18:30:29  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: adding a grf, rarely. removing a grf, often.
18:30:38  <planetmaker> it's not about the number. It's about that it does it *at all*
18:30:45  <planetmaker> it's always a bug
18:31:05  <andythenorth> I think we might have decided on a wrong solution though
18:31:12  <andythenorth> maybe it's the only one we have time for
18:31:21  <planetmaker> bugs are right then?
18:31:22  <andythenorth> but it's engineering-focussed, not user-focussed
18:31:24  <Terkhen> what would be the right solution?
18:31:29  <andythenorth> better
18:31:32  <andythenorth> :P
18:31:39  <Alberth> andythenorth: it is engineering reality
18:31:42  <planetmaker> hardly. Bugs are what is *really* annoying
18:31:47  <planetmaker> when the game crashes
18:32:16  <andythenorth> if adding any vehicle grf to a game with engine pool enabled causes a crash, that's an openttd bug
18:32:27  <planetmaker> nope
18:32:27  <andythenorth> or the newgrf is doing something stupid
18:32:31  <andythenorth> how
18:32:31  <andythenorth> ?
18:32:32  <planetmaker> it's a newgrf incompatibility
18:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i think a fully modular grf architecture would be required to properly be able to update grfs, that is just not going to happen
18:32:57  <planetmaker> designing newgrf architecture anew would allow that, yes
18:33:00  <planetmaker> But that's just not on
18:33:17  <Rubidium> disabling based on the existance of others is the biggest cause of mayhem
18:33:26  <planetmaker> yup
18:33:26  *** brumla [] has joined #openttd
18:33:28  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but what if existing vehicle grf X disables itself when vehicle grf Y is loaded?
18:33:29  <andythenorth> one newgrf disables another?
18:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause> then adding one grf removes another
18:33:39  <planetmaker> you do that yourself
18:33:45  <planetmaker> i.e. with firs
18:33:49  <Eddi|zuHause> leading to stuff like vehicles on wrong railtype
18:34:08  <andythenorth> planetmaker: but FIRS is not a vehicle grf ;)  I was very specific in picking vehicles...
18:34:27  <planetmaker> every pikka newgrf does
18:34:27  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: your theory is flawed
18:34:36  *** Intexon [] has joined #openttd
18:34:38  <Alberth> industries are just as deep in the core game structure, if not deeper
18:34:44  <bodis> so do you boys and girls keep playing much longer past 2050?
18:34:57  * Alberth stops around 1980 usually
18:34:57  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: theoretically flawed, or empirically flawed?
18:35:05  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: adding NARS2 to a game with ECS does horrible things
18:35:06  <planetmaker> andythenorth, add NARS. Play.
18:35:10  <peter1138> people seem to associate "newgrf" with "new graphics"
18:35:11  <planetmaker> Then add another trainset. Boom
18:35:15  <bodis> Alberth, why?
18:35:36  <andythenorth> NARS 2 does horrible things because it abuses a cargo slot?
18:35:37  <Alberth> bodis: end of the day, usually
18:35:41  <planetmaker> nope
18:35:42  <bodis> lol
18:35:47  <planetmaker> it just doesn't like ohter train grfs
18:36:01  <peter1138> how about disabling the ability to disable other sets... ;)
18:36:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes. but people will think "but it's just a vehicle grf"
18:36:05  <planetmaker> or engine pool enabled or so
18:36:22  <planetmaker> I might have mixed that up. But the principle is the same
18:36:25  <planetmaker> ;-)
18:36:27  <andythenorth> I think the problem isn't newgrf spec
18:36:33  <planetmaker> it very much is
18:36:35  <andythenorth> the problem is vehicle sets designed pre-engine pool
18:36:36  *** Pulec [] has joined #openttd
18:36:45  <andythenorth> and the bad habits of some authors (sometimes well intentioned)
18:37:03  <Alberth> bodis: I'd like to build infra structure from scratch, after about 30 years, I have connected the major things
18:37:10  <peter1138> engine pool is a mis-feature!
18:37:10  <planetmaker> thus the current solution is the only viable, andythenorth
18:37:30  <planetmaker> it's indeed the newgrf authors' fault
18:37:33  <bodis> heh i see
18:37:36  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: wrong. "multipool" is :p
18:37:42  <planetmaker> :-P
18:37:50  <peter1138> oh yeah, whatever "multipool" ever was
18:37:59  <bodis> ok gonna get some rail down
18:38:01  <Alberth> andythenorth: newgrf is not developed with removal in mind
18:38:12  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: kate totally failed on indenting code, apparantly they removed all configurations for that and tried to autodetect spaces/tabs from the previous line, which obviously fails then the previous line is not indented at all. and kate hat like a 10% change of crashing when saving a file (luckily actually after saving)
18:38:23  *** tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
18:38:34  <andythenorth> yarp - I'm not even thinking about removal
18:38:51  <Terkhen> could this be fixed for the next version of the specs? :P
18:38:53  <planetmaker> adding equals removal as self-disable is triggered by other grf's presence theoretically
18:39:01  <Alberth> disabling self *is* removal
18:39:02  <andythenorth> those grfs are wrong
18:39:02  <peter1138> how to make removal work: remove all vehicles/stations/industries/houses that come from the removed grfs
18:39:16  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: konsole totally failed with some keyboard stuff i do not remember correctly, and it keeped on focussing the tabs instead of the actualy console, buf i forgot most of the issues
18:39:25  <andythenorth> vehicles / stations / objects should all be addition-safe
18:39:35  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: but again, i have no idea whether that got better in the last 1.5 or 2 years
18:39:39  <Rubidium> peter1138: and all vehicles / houses that depend on the cargos provided by said NewGRF
18:39:39  <andythenorth> otherwise the grf is broken (imo - I vary from specs)
18:39:41  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think that focus thing was solved
18:39:47  <peter1138> stations were actually designed to be addition/removal safe
18:40:01  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i actually remember that one, i was annoyed as well
18:40:05  <peter1138> apart from that bit that stops the tile being traversable
18:40:09  *** devilsadvocate_ [~quassel@] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
18:40:11  <peter1138> Rubidium, yes, as well :)
18:40:11  <planetmaker> andythenorth, that's only viable, if you disallow ANY check for other newgrfs
18:40:16  <planetmaker> which also breaks things
18:40:32  *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
18:40:35  <peter1138> how about: you can add/remove newgrfs, BUT ALL YOUR STUFF WILL BE WIPED FROM THE MAP, MUWAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHACOUGH
18:40:39  <andythenorth> he
18:40:45  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but that is because someone was too cheap to spend a bit on the map array, that is not primarily a newgrf flaw
18:40:50  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: meanwhile i switched to debian, which has gnome 2 by default, which was good enough till now. geany is comparable nice as kde 3 kate, and i got used to the console, though it is not as good as kde 3
18:40:57  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yeah i was :D
18:41:09  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, i had intended to, too :p
18:41:15  <andythenorth> why should a vehicle grf be disabling in presence of other grfs?
18:41:25  <andythenorth> probably (a) because author says so
18:41:36  *** brumla [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:41:38  <andythenorth> or (b) something to do with base costs etc that used to not be grf-local
18:41:39  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: because the grf spec allows it
18:41:52  <andythenorth> specs can be adjusted :P
18:42:08  <Alberth> but existing newgrfs cannot
18:42:15  <Eddi|zuHause> you can easily add to specs, but not remove
18:42:18  <Rubidium> yeah, but *when* will you drop support for the previous formats?
18:42:27  <Rubidium> till then it will have to stay as it is
18:42:39  <andythenorth> legacy support :P
18:42:44  <Terkhen> andythenorth: prepare a new version of the specs with add/removal compatibility, convince every author of every set to update to the new specs :)
18:42:53  <peter1138> let's drop newgrf
18:42:58  <andythenorth> much less work
18:42:58  <peter1138> newini ftw
18:43:01  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: immediately only allow grf version 8 ;)
18:43:13  * Alberth does thumbs up to peter1138
18:43:20  <andythenorth> use xml :P
18:43:37  <Eddi|zuHause> that line was to be expected :p
18:43:44  <peter1138> newini will be text based, including the images
18:43:48  <Alberth> file format does not help
18:44:00  <Alberth> ascii art only :)
18:44:16  <peter1138> xpm :D
18:44:27  <peter1138> needs to be compiled into the game, heheh
18:44:34  <Alberth> nice, we even have colour :p
18:44:44  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:45:00  <Alberth> who needs a config file, just fix the source :p
18:45:18  <peter1138> also it will have 3d models, smooth curves, 9001 tracks per tile, cliffs, underground stuff, AND save the children
18:45:58  <Eddi|zuHause> and all vehicle sets builtin!
18:46:07  <Terkhen> you should go help with p1sim then
18:46:11  * Alberth bets on p1sim
18:46:15  <Rubidium> peter1138: 3d is lame... we *need* 4d models... after all, they must animate!
18:46:29  <Terkhen> except for the save the children stuff, IIRC that's not on p1sim specs :P
18:46:30  <peter1138> oh shiiiiiiiiiiiit
18:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> 12D to be upwards-compatible with string theory ;)
18:47:07  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: Will it fix global warming and bring back the unicorns?
18:47:18  <andythenorth> was it quiet here until I turned up?
18:47:19  <Eddi|zuHause> better: arbitrary-D to have 3D as a special case :p
18:47:25  <peter1138> it will have pink fluffy unicorns dancing on rainbows
18:47:32  <Terkhen> andythenorth: quite, you are great at starting conversations :P
18:48:15  <andythenorth> who adds grfs to running games?  any +1s?
18:48:18  * andythenorth +1
18:48:27  <frosch123> if it has no undo knob, i am not going to buy it
18:48:34  *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
18:49:10  <Rubidium> oh... yes, everything must be quantum entangled so we can calculate all scenarios and then the best scenario is shown to the user
18:49:24  *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
18:49:39  *** Adambean [] has joined #openttd
18:49:50  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I usually notice early and just restart
18:49:54  <planetmaker> ^
18:49:59  <Terkhen> I have changed ogfx+ landscape parameters a few times, though
18:50:07  <Rubidium> and as we have all states at the same time, "undoing" is just a trivial bit
18:50:14  * Eddi|zuHause notes that there are too few mathematicians around to appreciate the joke
18:50:20  <andythenorth> hmm
18:50:32  <andythenorth> with canadian theme pack, forgetting to add a grf will be a non-issue
18:50:41  <andythenorth> :P
18:50:56  <planetmaker> allow only one grf ;-)
18:51:03  <andythenorth> I was thinking that
18:51:06  <andythenorth> pikka.grf
18:51:11  <andythenorth> andythenorth.grf
18:51:14  <andythenorth> mb.grf
18:51:16  <andythenorth> oz.grf
18:51:17  <planetmaker> and then a plug-in structure for grfs
18:51:32  <andythenorth> parameters to turn things on and off :P
18:51:39  <Terkhen> all.grf
18:51:47  <frosch123> andythenorth: just encapsulate everything in newgrf.cpp in a single class with very strict interfaces (i.e. without interacting with the rest of the game via global variables)
18:51:48  <andythenorth> all.grf is even better
18:52:04  <frosch123> then you can pre-load&activate grfs without starting a game
18:52:21  <frosch123> i.e. you can check everything in the main menu grf configuration
18:52:39  <frosch123> you could even display a list of what vehicles or industries each grf provides
18:52:40  *** keoz [~keikoz@] has joined #openttd
18:53:15  <andythenorth> I have some sympathy for players in this :|
18:53:30  <andythenorth> especially for things like patchy cargo support by vehicle grfs
18:53:39  <planetmaker> sympathy for a goal doesn't mean the previous path was good
18:53:43  <andythenorth> you get 50 years into a game and find eGRVTS doesn't support alcohol
18:53:50  <andythenorth> I didn't say we should go back ;)
18:53:56  <andythenorth> just that I think we did it wrong
18:54:03  <andythenorth> I don't know yet what is better though
18:54:03  <planetmaker> you argued all the time for that ;-)
18:54:10  <andythenorth> no, read back
18:54:22  <andythenorth> or do you mean I argued to forbid changing?
18:54:31  <andythenorth> which I did very strongly
18:54:33  <andythenorth> I was wrong
18:54:41  <planetmaker> no, you argued to allow (again) the (old) way of changing
18:54:50  <andythenorth> oh
18:54:51  <planetmaker> disallowing that was right.
18:54:57  <andythenorth> well I didn't intend to argue that
18:54:59  <planetmaker> Now it needs a new way, which cannot fail
18:55:14  <planetmaker> thus the path so far is all correct.
18:55:30  <Terkhen> but with the current specs I don't think that a new way is possible
18:55:53  <planetmaker> only very very limited. And then also only with cutting a bit off the specs.
18:56:23  <andythenorth> so there might be a way there
18:56:29  <frosch123> you could very well check on game start, whether there will every be a vehicle of each type available to transport every cargo
18:56:33  <andythenorth> but another way - why do they want to change grfs anyway?
18:56:35  <planetmaker> there certainly is *some* way *somewhere*.
18:56:42  <planetmaker> But it's definitely not a paved way
18:56:46  <andythenorth> what is the case for add / remove?
18:56:56  <Terkhen> frosch123: that's a good idea
18:57:23  <planetmaker> Terkhen, frosch123 it has some flaws though ;-)
18:57:46  <planetmaker> the alcohol wagon on maglev which only appears in May 2053 only to disappear in July 2053
18:57:59  <frosch123> but i really hope, some day we can load grfs in the main menu without applying them to the title game, so everything can be checked before starting the game
18:58:21  <frosch123> planetmaker: that is obviously no sane vehicle set :)
18:58:22  <planetmaker> but such check still would be better than none
18:58:38  <planetmaker> frosch123, incomplete or intended as add-on only?
18:59:24  <planetmaker> like "ultra modern super-duper flying railcars" - and then people will still wonder why they have no steam engine and wagons in 1492
18:59:34  <frosch123> a set like dbset which deprecates vehicles (when wagonspeed is disabled), is just broken
18:59:34  <andythenorth> apart from cargo support, why screw with grfs?
18:59:36  <planetmaker> but that's layer 8
18:59:53  <Alberth> andythenorth: I miss my bridge set, you upgraded firs while I play, I failed to load a tram set, I cannot transport something 15 years into the game, etc
19:01:01  <Alberth> hmm, is there a newgrf with steam engines all the way to 2000+ ?
19:01:11  <frosch123> yes
19:01:31  <TWerkhoven> tropic refurb set
19:01:39  <frosch123> iirc ukrs has futuristic steamengines, introduced in 2030 which go 300+ km/h or so :pÌ
19:02:10  <Alberth> I'd like to play longer with 'normal' steam engines
19:02:22  <frosch123> play with daylength :p
19:02:48  <frosch123> i guess that is actually the only reason people play with daylength, because they want to play longer with steam engines
19:02:51  <planetmaker> Alberth, that's one of the main reasons - too fast passage of time - that I always keep all vehicles ever invented
19:03:10  <andythenorth> beb - baby sleep time
19:03:18  <Alberth> that would be one way, but having a newgrf that keeps steam much longer work too
19:03:23  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: definitely one of the most valid reasons
19:03:43  <Alberth> planetmaker: but with breakdowns, that is not much fun
19:03:48  <frosch123> Alberth: alternatively play on a 128x256 map, which you can fill in 50 years (1900-1950)
19:04:18  <Alberth> how can I play longer than? :p
19:04:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i did for my yacd-game
19:04:20  <planetmaker> Alberth, that's a setting which - to me - very very very very very seldomly is rated as 'fun'
19:04:20  <frosch123> Alberth: if vehicles do not expire, their reliability does not drop
19:04:30  *** _goblin_ [] has joined #openttd
19:04:52  <Alberth> frosch123: interesting
19:04:57  <Alberth> must try that
19:05:20  <frosch123> would be quite pointless with dozen of engines with 25% reliability :p
19:05:30  <Alberth> planetmaker: well, it prevents the possibility to push your tracks full yeah
19:07:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the sense in "keep all vehicles"
19:07:29  <planetmaker> Alberth, yes. But mostly it just jams the whole thing... it can be worked around, but even the best maintenance with reduced break downs has them break down every so often.
19:07:32  <Eddi|zuHause> why would i pick a lousy steam engine when way better diesel and electric engines are available (for reasonable price)
19:07:34  <planetmaker> congesting the whole network
19:07:49  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, mostly as time passes too quickly
19:08:07  <planetmaker> and I don't want to upgrade to monorail and maglev
19:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> pick a sensible vehicle set :p
19:08:36  <Alberth> planetmaker: thus you have to build more tracks and reoruting options
19:09:16  <Alberth> ie 2 lanes from one end to the other end will not work
19:09:55  *** goblin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:10:30  *** Kurimus [] has quit []
19:10:39  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
19:10:48  <planetmaker> yes, I know.
19:11:31  <V453000> someone plays with breakdowns? :DD
19:11:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i certainly don't
19:11:57  <Alberth> I don't know about someone, but I do, yes :)
19:12:02  <planetmaker> Alberth, but mostly it leads to empty, inflated networks - just to compensate for breakdowns. And then it still doesn't really help
19:12:03  <Eddi|zuHause> not since i found that option :p
19:12:53  <Alberth> planetmaker: probably it does, but i have around 100 trains or so usually, not very much
19:13:05  * frosch123 plays with reduced breakdowns
19:13:24  <frosch123> no breakdowns are boring
19:13:47  <frosch123> it completely removes the randomisation of engines statistics, you can just pick the fastest one
19:13:57  <frosch123> without having to pick the most reliable one
19:14:55  <planetmaker> yes... but even red. breakdowns are not really uncommon.
19:16:03  <Alberth> it is just a matter of what you want. I am not bothered by a breakdown every now and then. I can imagine that if you want good flow, they are deadly to you
19:17:01  <Alberth> not to mention stuff like time tables, which fail to work :)
19:17:34  <Eddi|zuHause> suggestion: add pathfinder penalty for "broken down train"
19:17:57  <Eddi|zuHause> (or: "train with lower (temporary) max speed")
19:18:16  <Alberth> but the path finder does route around other trains already
19:18:18  <planetmaker> I'd not mind them - iff there was a possibility to deal with them than to simply accept relatively long block of a track
19:18:35  <planetmaker> Alberth, yes... but broken down indeed is a more severe penalty :-)
19:18:50  <planetmaker> as is actually a train waiting at a red signal
19:18:58  <planetmaker> over a driving one
19:19:02  <Alberth> I agree it is quite severe
19:19:26  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
19:20:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but it should not route around _all_ other trains
19:20:35  <Alberth> why not? then it uses the capacity as good as possible
19:20:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: tracks with crossovers have the problem that even equally fast trains cross over because the other track is free, potentially blocking another train behind
19:20:57  <Eddi|zuHause> thus reducing the track capacity
19:21:13  <planetmaker> yep. a tripple-track solution does not work
19:21:34  <Eddi|zuHause> worst case is a two-way double track, where trains switch places constantly
19:21:40  <Eddi|zuHause> because one overtakes the other
19:21:47  <Eddi|zuHause> then the other overtakes the first again
19:21:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and so on
19:21:53  <Eddi|zuHause> totally stupid
19:21:57  <planetmaker> and each stops then
19:22:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yep#
19:22:41  <Eddi|zuHause> this needs more detailed pathfinder penalties, so the overtaking track is never triggered when the train ahead has equal or higher speed
19:23:09  <Alberth> I have quite long stretches of tracks with few cross-overs, and don't really see that problem. But perhaps it is due to the fact that my tracks are more empty
19:24:44  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: that is probably very difficult to accomplish
19:26:03  *** Adambean` [] has joined #openttd
19:26:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there must be some (computationally) fast way to get the speed of the train occupying a trackbit
19:29:36  *** Adambean [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
19:31:06  <Alberth> I am more worried about 'overtaking track' detection.
19:31:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that is already possible to differentiate by reverse path signal penalty
19:33:49  <Alberth> why would such a track always be build like that?
19:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it wouldn't
19:34:46  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also make the reserved track penalty zero, then even the curve penalty would prevent switching
19:35:40  <Eddi|zuHause> but as long as you cannot differentiate between slower and faster trains, this does not make any sense at all
19:36:50  *** Progman [] has quit [Quit: Progman]
19:37:03  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
19:38:09  <V453000> planetmaker: rail has faster loading/unloading times than maglev without newgrfs
19:38:30  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: "unloading speed" != "unloading time"
19:38:41  <planetmaker> hm, does it?
19:38:50  <Eddi|zuHause> "unloading time" = "unloading speed" * capacity
19:38:51  <planetmaker> I checked the source but didn't find the loading speed
19:39:08  <V453000> the percentages of maglev add up by 15, percentages of rail seem to increase by 20 ... dont know if the time spent is the same
19:39:25  <V453000> I doubt it ofc :)
19:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause> the newgrf spec should have the default vehicle properties
19:39:39  <planetmaker> then the loading speed is the same. The loading time longer for maglev as capacity is larger
19:39:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess it's like 5 units per step
19:40:00  <planetmaker> that's what I recall, too
19:40:27  <V453000> oh I see
19:40:37  <V453000> so there is equal "amount of cargo" per second
19:40:44  <V453000> but maglev trains stay longer in the station
19:40:56  <bodis> is it possible to add signals on this station so I have 2 trains entering and 2 leaving at the same time?
19:40:57  <bodis>
19:41:20  <bodis> 2 tracks on the left come in and on the right go out
19:41:44  <andythenorth> hmm
19:41:49  <andythenorth> should I try a daylength patch?
19:42:09  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they have lots of quirks
19:42:17  <andythenorth> hmm
19:42:20  <Eddi|zuHause> bodis: use path signals
19:42:25  <andythenorth> I like long games
19:42:42  <andythenorth> but I'm not convinced that starting before about 1880 is worth it
19:43:07  <bodis> hmm will have to see how they work
19:43:20  <andythenorth> also I can't be arsed to make FISH and HEQS go back beyond the 1870s
19:43:36  <andythenorth> and making FIRS do early industries well is TMWFTLB
19:43:59  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: put the early industries in a separate grf?
19:44:09  <andythenorth> it's more a problem of gameplay
19:44:34  <V453000> andythenorth: you need some very good newgrf settings for long games I think :) to have many engine-evolution
19:44:44  <V453000> then it is fun
19:44:52  <V453000> even like 1850-2050+
19:45:09  <andythenorth> my recent games go 1870-2020
19:45:21  <andythenorth> I would like them to be longer
19:45:46  <andythenorth> in single player with YACD, there was still plenty left to do by 2020, but I was bored of the vehicles
19:46:01  <SpComb> you're not allowed to
19:46:33  <SpComb> just use the copy-paste patch to build faster
19:46:40  <andythenorth> maybe I should turn 'build while paused' on
19:47:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i turned that on out of pure annoyance because the way it was handled got changed
19:47:24  *** Twerkhoven[L] [] has joined #openttd
20:03:16  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
20:03:45  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
20:03:50  <Wolf01> 'night
20:03:54  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:05:39  <Terkhen> mola
20:06:06  <Terkhen> oops, sorry :P
20:07:34  <supermop> hello
20:08:23  <Terkhen> hi supermop
20:09:11  <supermop> does oberhÃŒmer frequent this channel?
20:11:50  <Terkhen> I have never seen him here
20:12:04  <Terkhen> try @seen, I can't write that strange character
20:12:43  <Twerkhoven[L]> @seen oberhÃŒmer
20:12:43  <DorpsGek> Twerkhoven[L]: I have not seen oberhÃŒmer.
20:12:49  <Twerkhoven[L]> copy-paste is your friend
20:12:59  <supermop> ok
20:13:01  <supermop> thaanks
20:13:03  <planetmaker> @seen oberhumer
20:13:03  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: I have not seen oberhumer.
20:13:08  <planetmaker> @seen oberhuemer
20:13:08  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: I have not seen oberhuemer.
20:13:10  <Terkhen> TWerkhoven: it appears as a ? character to me
20:13:16  <planetmaker> uh?
20:13:25  <planetmaker> you should get a better IRC client then
20:13:27  <Terkhen> only the one written by supermop
20:13:39  <planetmaker> oberhÃŒmer?
20:13:45  <Terkhen> I can see that Ì fine
20:13:54  <planetmaker> he
20:14:10  <Terkhen> ᅵ <--- but when supermop mentioned him I saw this
20:15:00  <Terkhen> heh, on irclogs they look the same, but not here in my client :P
20:16:37  <Alberth> here as well
20:16:39  <Twerkhoven[L]> odd
20:16:57  <planetmaker> they look the same here.
20:17:43  <Terkhen> Ï dïscövërëd thÀt Ï cÀn wrïtë ït töö
20:18:07  <planetmaker> there's no Ì :-P
20:18:29  <Terkhen> ÿ <-- which language uses this?
20:18:45  <planetmaker> Turkish?
20:19:25  <Prof_Frink> Yes, but can you do an umlaut on an n?
20:19:59  <Terkhen> heh, internet has made me stupid :O
20:20:14  <Terkhen> of course I can write it, it is used in spanish too but no one ever bothers with it
20:20:17  <planetmaker> let me guess... Spanish uses it, too?
20:20:28  <Terkhen> only in a few "corner cases" though :P
20:20:31  <planetmaker> :-)
20:20:48  <planetmaker> like ß probably ;-)
20:22:48  <__ln__> but an *umlaut* on n?
20:23:07  <__ln__> n with two dots on it
20:23:11  <planetmaker> also a trema doesn't make sense.
20:23:21  <Terkhen> ñ <-- I can do something similar :)
20:23:28  <planetmaker> :-P
20:24:07  <supermop> always good to see discussion of diacritics
20:25:07  <Terkhen> :)
20:28:43  <frosch123> more amazing than letters with stuff above, are letters without stuff above, like "ı"
20:28:53  <Eddi|zuHause> <Terkhen> ÿ <-- which language uses this? <-- iirc dutch uses that
20:28:59  <Eddi|zuHause> as an i-j ligature
20:29:09  <Twerkhoven[L]> but without the dots
20:29:35  <Twerkhoven[L]> when typing it as a single character usually
20:30:33  <Eddi|zuHause> "simplified typing" is not what i meant
20:30:43  <Prof_Frink> ☃
20:31:03  <Hirundo> Dutch i-j is typed and written as ij, not ÿ
20:31:31  <Twerkhoven[L]> yup
20:33:51  <__ln__> ÿ without dots is y
20:35:31  <Twerkhoven[L]> doesn't stop some ppl from using it as ij though
20:35:35  <Terkhen> andythenorth:
20:35:59  <andythenorth> saw that advertised when I was in vegas ;)
20:36:10  <andythenorth> we went for a helicopter ride in grand canyon instead
20:36:36  <Bilge> Does auto-renew and auto-replace continue to work if you log off from a multiplayer game?
20:36:50  <Terkhen> :P
20:37:01  <andythenorth> this one is a bit closer to me
20:37:03  <andythenorth>
20:37:08  <Terkhen> the gran canyon ride sounds more impressive :P
20:37:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Bilge: yes
20:37:15  <Terkhen> Bilge: it should, yes
20:37:31  <Terkhen> andythenorth: nice :P
20:37:43  <andythenorth> grand canyon is big
20:37:48  <andythenorth> ottd needs cliffs :P
20:38:22  <Terkhen> code the grand canyon as a huge newobject :)
20:39:09  <__ln__> grand canyon must have taken a long time to dig
20:39:11  *** Adambean` [] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing]
20:39:49  <Terkhen> millions of years I guess
20:39:52  <Eddi|zuHause> it was only 12000 years since god created the earth
20:40:02  <Eddi|zuHause> how could it have taken millions of years then?
20:40:10  <planetmaker> 12000?
20:40:18  <planetmaker> not rather like a bit over 5700?
20:40:54  <andythenorth> probably more than the terraforming limit
20:41:02  <Terkhen> depends on the church you are visiting I guess
20:41:36  <__ln__> the person at grand canyon national park entrance said that they had 10 feet of snow in the winter.
20:41:42  *** bb10 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:41:53  *** bb10 [] has joined #openttd
20:42:41  <planetmaker> Terkhen, of course the one of the flying spaghetti monster ;-)
20:43:34  <planetmaker> oh oh... sirXY is back...
20:43:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i had that same thought :p
20:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i'm fairly sure people don't believe that the world began with the israelis leaving egypt.
20:45:35  <Terkhen> I don't remember much about him besides being interested on that futuristic project before realizing that it was just a plan
20:46:40  <planetmaker> from what I just saw along the lines of "I'm disappointed that OpenTTD evolved so little in the time of my absense"... well ;-)
20:46:54  <Rubidium> pff... churches, or rather Gods, are just easy scapegoats. Tsunami: "God's will", earthquake: "God's will", priests doing sinful things: "God's will"
20:46:55  * andythenorth works on FIRS
20:46:56  <andythenorth> it's fun
20:47:42  <frosch123> the world was created by the invisible pink unicorn 20 minutes ago. the world was created including all memories predating its creation
20:47:43  <planetmaker> are you ill, andythenorth ? ;-)
20:47:56  <Alberth> Rubidium: firing nuclear weapons: no problem, God will jump in at the right time
20:48:11  <Rubidium> Alberth: God wanted them to be fired
20:48:14  <Chris_Booth> Rubidium: you need to watch the film, the man who sued god!
20:48:24  <Terkhen> planetmaker: yes, that was his attitude regarding the futuristic project too :P
20:49:44  <Eddi|zuHause> his "futuristic project" "evolved" from basically a feature request list this long: [········] to one this long: [·················] within one year.
20:49:47  <Alberth> frosch123: and I was thinking it was just computing the question for the answer about life, the universe, and everything
20:50:01  <andythenorth> I can haz improved this a bit:
20:50:11  <andythenorth> but I need to do something about the empty tiles
20:50:17  <andythenorth> or do I?
20:50:28  <andythenorth> I've given it a garden and such
20:50:58  <Alberth> it just sells machines?
20:51:05  <andythenorth> makes them yes
20:51:11  <Terkhen> more machines then :)
20:51:19  <Alberth> rusty junk
20:51:25  <Terkhen> futuristic machines
20:51:31  <andythenorth> after 2050?
20:51:33  <andythenorth> hmm
20:51:41  <andythenorth> does it need anything?
20:51:44  <Hirundo> Or perhaps rearrange the tiles, and remove one row of tiles from the bottom-left side
20:51:50  <Terkhen> a hovercrane :P
20:51:53  <andythenorth> there are alternative layouts ;)
20:51:58  <andythenorth> does it need fences?
20:52:04  <andythenorth> fences just became possible
20:52:26  <Hirundo> If there are no fences, I'm gonna 'borrow' one of those dump trucks for fun ;)
20:52:31  <Alberth> high ones, with junk and machine parts stacked all over the place imho
20:53:02  <andythenorth> it makes other stuff - like metal structures and such
20:53:16  <Terkhen> new disaster: drunk guys steal heavy machinery from unguarded machinery shop
20:53:27  <Alberth> large sheets of metal would lay outside then
20:53:29  <andythenorth> destroys farm fields + nearby houses
20:53:38  <Chris_Booth> stacks of rust wheels
20:53:53  <Chris_Booth> and rusty scaffold
20:54:23  <Chris_Booth> and a big tank full of yellow paint for all the shiny JCBs
20:55:01  <Alberth> blue paint :)
20:55:11  <andythenorth> CC paint :P
20:55:12  <planetmaker> CC-paint ;-)
20:55:17  <andythenorth> I could just do some ground texture
20:55:28  *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has quit [Quit: TTW -]
20:55:31  <planetmaker> some dirt tracks ;-)
20:55:40  <andythenorth> more flowerbeds
20:55:45  <planetmaker> from the "test pacourt"
20:55:48  *** zachanima [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:56:42  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
20:56:54  <Chris_Booth> you need some broken windows aswell
20:57:04  *** sllide [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:57:05  <Chris_Booth> from the robbery that happened lastnight :P
20:57:42  <andythenorth> maybe that layout is not the best
20:57:48  <andythenorth> this one is fine:
20:58:06  <Chris_Booth> like that one andythenorth
20:58:26  <Chris_Booth> but has a lack of smash windows yellow paint, rusty wheels and pipes
20:58:50  * Terkhen likes that one better too
20:58:55  <Terkhen> it seems less empty
20:59:03  <peter1138> yeah, it's a bit 'clean'
20:59:41  <andythenorth> maybe I should add dirt to the tile, like the default steel mill
20:59:42  *** zachanima [] has joined #openttd
20:59:45  <planetmaker> andythenorth, I'd move the houses a bit more to the edge
20:59:47  <andythenorth> a project for another day
20:59:53  <Chris_Booth> looks like one of the factories in those Chinese ghost towns
20:59:53  <planetmaker> the two big ones
21:00:48  <andythenorth> hmm
21:00:58  <andythenorth> part of one of those buildings is missing
21:01:01  * Eddi|zuHause is still of the opinion you should rather make replacements for the last "original" industries instead of endlessly fiddling with the already replaced ones
21:02:14  <planetmaker> and meanwhile it's possible to deprecate a layout without actually breaking savegame compatibility ;-)
21:02:52  <supermop> if all of the dump trucks are new, why would they be rusty?
21:03:12  <Chris_Booth> supermop: they have not been painted
21:03:22  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:03:30  <Chris_Booth> you see how long something stay shiny for when it isn't painted
21:03:49  <Bilge> haha oh wow just cleared a massive area of land and bribed the local authority twice just to find out I still can't build another airport in that city anyway
21:04:49  <Twerkhoven[L]> plant trees?
21:05:38  <planetmaker> much cheaper without any risk ;-)
21:06:01  <supermop> if i ran the dump truck factory, I would not assemble the truck and park it outside until it was painted
21:06:30  <supermop> saves you having to disassemble and clean it before spraying
21:06:43  <Alberth> but the parts come from elsewhere and are not painted yet
21:07:07  <supermop> buy them from a supplier that does paint them
21:07:15  *** sllide [] has joined #openttd
21:07:19  <Alberth> you paint after assembly :)
21:07:50  <supermop> also in FIRS the machine shop takes delivery of raw metal, rather than chassis and shovels
21:07:58  <Alberth> customers have such weird colour requirements :p
21:08:07  <supermop> heh
21:08:26  <Bilge> oh my god, and again
21:08:51  <Bilge> Spending millions and millions and levelling land and bribing just to be cockblocked anyway
21:08:51  <Alberth> I don't think the higher powers are well emulated in the game
21:08:52  <supermop> can I get my HEQs for cheap if they messed up the paint color?
21:09:37  <planetmaker> supermop, sure. Even for free :-P
21:09:49  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the existing industries are already drawn :P
21:09:59  <andythenorth> why is redrawing them a priority?
21:10:06  <andythenorth> (original ones)
21:10:12  * Alberth considers an HEQs extension that gives weird coloured vehicles if it gets sold below some price
21:10:25  <Eddi|zuHause> because they are the wrong style
21:10:37  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
21:11:09  <supermop> hmm 2nd hand equipment
21:11:50  <Chris_Booth> 2nd hand trains would be nice
21:11:53  <Chris_Booth> or rented trains
21:11:57  <Chris_Booth> for startup
21:12:08  <supermop> yeah
21:12:31  <Chris_Booth> that feature would take a lot of coding though
21:12:43  <Chris_Booth> and I don't ever expect to see it in the game
21:13:07  <supermop> if a big company buys tons of class X locomotive, that class becomes incrementally cheaper for all
21:13:24  <supermop> due to it being mass produced
21:13:31  <Bilge> Can someone rewrite this because this section doesn't say what the fixed value is normally or where to find the advanced setting in the options
21:14:15  <supermop> if big company sells all of its class Xs after 10 years, maybe the other companies can buy some rebuilt second hand class x for cheap
21:14:40  <supermop> forgetting that idea all together:
21:14:56  <supermop> within one company, in the vehicle list
21:15:13  <supermop> have a category for decommissioned vehicles
21:15:49  <supermop> so you can decommission a train instead of selling it,
21:16:03  <supermop> the recommision it for a lower price than selling it
21:16:10  <supermop> basically a cloud depot
21:16:35  <supermop> that lets you build trains out of all of your currently unused stock
21:17:07  <planetmaker> mv Bilge someone
21:17:27  <glx> (it's a wiki)
21:19:16  *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:9541] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:20:03  *** KouDy [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:23:56  <Bilge> If you give me the information I'll rewrite it myself
21:24:22  <Chris_Booth> Bilge: what is wrong with it?
21:24:28  <Chris_Booth> all the info is in the game
21:24:32  <Chris_Booth> play it find out about it
21:24:34  <Chris_Booth> then write it
21:26:07  *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:9541] has joined #openttd
21:26:22  *** zachanim1 [] has joined #openttd
21:26:22  *** zachanima [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:29:02  <Terkhen> good night
21:31:06  <andythenorth> by Terkhen
21:31:33  *** _goblin_ [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:32:40  * andythenorth -> bedtime
21:32:42  <andythenorth> bye
21:32:43  *** andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
21:36:33  *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:9541] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:36:43  <Bilge> You can't click on a plane in flight to copy its orders
21:37:24  *** tparker [] has joined #openttd
21:37:27  *** sllide [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:38:46  <Bilge> Nor can you click it on the ground
21:38:54  <Bilge> You just can't copy a plane's orders
21:40:55  *** Pulec [] has quit []
21:47:29  *** Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
21:53:17  <supermop> click in the vehicle list
21:53:42  <bodis> trying to fund a farm in arctic climate but get the message that site is unsuitable
21:53:55  <bodis> are there criteria where farms can be placed?
21:54:11  <Yexo> below the snowline IIRC
21:54:30  <bodis> hmm
21:54:33  <Eddi|zuHause> "Sarkozy couldn't shut off the nuclear power stations even if he wanted to"
21:54:46  <Eddi|zuHause> "he wouldn't be able to reach the switch"
21:55:45  <bodis> tried placing it on grass but it aint happening
21:56:42  <Eddi|zuHause> you use any newgrfs?
21:57:10  *** Twerkhoven[L] [] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into]
21:58:32  <bodis> nope
22:00:18  <Eddi|zuHause> is there enough flat area around?
22:00:47  <bodis> yep just leveled 12x12 square on every level
22:00:56  <bodis> still unsauitable
22:02:01  *** TWerkhoven [] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into]
22:02:42  <bodis> does taking loads of food to towns make them grow quicker?
22:03:08  <Yexo> no
22:03:33  <bodis> ohh
22:03:35  <Yexo> see
22:03:53  <bodis> so why when you open town page it says needs food for more growth
22:03:58  <bodis> or is it small towns
22:04:18  <Yexo> it needs 1 ton of food per month for any growth at all
22:04:23  <Yexo> and that is only for towns above the snowline
22:05:32  <bodis> ohh
22:11:54  <bodis> ok good read
22:11:58  <bodis> thanks Yexo
22:12:01  <bodis> sleep now
22:25:16  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!]
22:25:54  *** supermop [] has left #openttd []
22:41:15  *** keoz [~keikoz@] has quit [Quit: keoz]
22:43:33  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:51:24  <Bilge> Yexo: is this a know bug? It seems you can share orders but not copy orders with aircraft
22:51:41  <Yexo> you can't? that's strange
22:51:47  <Yexo> it's not known to me
22:51:58  <Eddi|zuHause> not to me either
22:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause> you can't copy orders if you already have an order
22:53:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and you can't copy orders if the vehicle cannot go there (like air plane to heliport)
23:09:29  *** Neon [] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.]
23:12:11  *** fjb|mobile [] has joined #openttd
23:13:57  *** bryjen [~bryjen@] has joined #openttd
23:17:06  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:23:30  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
23:23:46  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:24:45  *** amkoroew [] has joined #openttd
23:29:12  *** amkoroew1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:31:48  *** Cybertinus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk