Log for #openttd on 26th July 2011:
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02:27:27  <jcurran> *TEST*
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08:29:37  <dihedral> good morning
08:31:06  <Terkhen> good morning
08:31:16  <__ln__> good tomorrow
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08:38:42  <Terkhen> given the amount of stuff I always have to do for "tomorrow", when it finally comes it won't be a good day
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08:48:49  <Pikka> good evening
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08:55:36  <Terkhen> hi Pikka
08:55:51  <Pikka> hello Terkhen
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10:09:29  <Alberth> hai
10:10:13  <Alberth> should I give feedback on your code, or did you get enough from Rb yesterday?
10:18:50  <Rubidium> Alberth: you ought to commit some (doc) bits of it ;)
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11:00:07  <dihedral> hello Alberth, Rubidium, Terkhen ;-)
11:00:20  <Alberth> hi dihedral
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12:29:18  <planetmaker> :-P
12:29:21  <planetmaker> hello
12:30:07  <fjb> Moin
12:39:24  <MNIM> 'elleu
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12:43:27  <Belugas> hello
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13:23:10  <Zuu> Why are airport types > intercontinental shown as buildable to the AI?
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13:39:25  <jonno> hey, is there anything I can do about my laptops touchpad being completly impossible to use when openttd is in fullscreen mode (linux)
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13:39:56  <planetmaker> ...
13:40:04  <planetmaker> the youth. soooo impatient
13:40:30  <planetmaker> Zuu, my best guess would be "bug in range check" ;-)
13:41:57  * planetmaker would accept a bug-fix-patch :-P
13:42:45  <Zuu> :-)
13:43:00  <Hirundo> What is the result, if you run that code before the small airport is available?
13:43:30  <Zuu> I would guess that only airport 10-127 are "available".
13:44:14  <planetmaker> Zuu, according to newgrf specs the max. airportID is 128
13:44:15  <Hirundo> If my suspicion about messed-up substitute types is correct, none are "available"
13:44:39  <planetmaker> so, your guess seems right.
13:45:38  <Zuu> by the way, will rotated airports have a new airportId or will each rotaiton still have the same airport ID?
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13:45:59  <jonno> dammit, sorry...
13:46:28  <Zuu> I guess, I should use the cheats to build a small rotated airport and see what the API says :-)
13:47:06  <planetmaker> 	return type >= 0 && type < (AirportType)NUM_AIRPORTS && AirportSpec::Get(type)->enabled;
13:47:21  <planetmaker> NUM_AIRPORTS is the 128 as by specs
13:47:35  <planetmaker> so... AirportSpec::Get(type)->enabled must somehow fail...
13:47:57  <Hirundo> I guess, it returns the enabled-ness of the substitute type (small airport in this case)
13:49:47  <jonno> planetmaker: yeah, didnt mean to dc... any ideas what might be the issue or where in the code to fiddle to fix?
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13:50:36  <planetmaker> JdGordon, that depends on the definition of "unusable", I guess
13:51:02  <JdGordon> sensitity is for some reason way too high in full screen, it works fine though in a window
13:51:04  <planetmaker> Did you try to toy with your touchpad's sensitivity
13:52:18  <planetmaker> I've no idea whether that is set differently in full screen when in windowed mode. In the latter case it's probably set your your desktop manager while in the fullscreen case maybe explicity by the SDL settings which OpenTTD brings. Or maybe not
13:52:32  <planetmaker> I've never really looked at the SDL drivers
13:52:52  <planetmaker> src/video/something-with-sdl
13:52:58  <JdGordon> thanks
13:53:00  <planetmaker> is my guess where one could start looking
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14:02:48  <JdGordon> planetmaker: is SDL used for input? or just video?
14:05:53  <JdGordon> ignore that, found something that might be promising
14:07:04  <planetmaker> JdGordon, it depends. On the system I play, cocoa is used for in and output ;-)
14:07:40  <planetmaker> but on linux... sdl runs often the core input and output
14:08:47  * JdGordon absolutly hates c++ :(
14:08:59  <JdGordon> but ok, yeah sdl is doing mouse so at least im looking in the right place
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14:17:44  <LordAro> afernoonings
14:18:52  <Zuu> planetmaker: Mind that in NoAI you can get info about airports that are not currently buildable. That is what IsAirportInformationAvailable is used for. But IsValidAirportType should only return true on airports that are actually buildable.
14:19:24  <Zuu> The reason for this is that you might want to know the size of an airport that you have built, but is no longer buildable.
14:20:44  <planetmaker> Ah, ok. Well... I guess it should still only return those airports which in principle will become available
14:21:01  <planetmaker> (or were available for that matter)
14:22:35  <planetmaker> I guess they should not be enabled then by default...
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14:23:27  <planetmaker> hm.... AirportSpec AirportSpec::dummy = AS_GENERIC(&_airportfta_dummy, NULL, _default_airports_rotation, 0, NULL, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, MIN_YEAR, MIN_YEAR, ATP_TTDP_LARGE, APC_BEGIN, STR_NULL, 0, false);
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14:27:50  <LordAro> Alberth: just looked at the logs, and realised that i logged on this morning :) - it was actually the laptop coming out of sleep mode, so i'm afraid i wasn't there :)
14:29:12  <Alberth> how useful
14:29:35  <planetmaker> as long as you have the logs of that, it's ok
14:29:42  <LordAro> not my fault, i blame parental controls >.<
14:29:50  * LordAro grumbles
14:30:00  <planetmaker> parental control o_O
14:31:13  <LordAro> tell me about it...
14:32:27  <LordAro> anyway: Alberth: no, i did not get too much feedback from ru bidium, more please! :) (regarding function running on each tick to start with, methinks)
14:34:42  * JdGordon gives up and stays in windowed mode
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14:39:14  <Zuu> planetmaker: It does make sense that airport IDs of airport  types that never will become buildable as well could be invalid for IsAirportInformationAvailable. Especially if there are no information available for these undefined airport types.
14:41:18  <Zuu> CluelessPlus has just succeded to create its first air connection, but for some resaon it has decided to close it down :-D
14:43:27  <LordAro> is there a forum thread for 1.1.2-RC1?
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14:43:48  <planetmaker> hm, no. I forgot to post it in forums
14:44:26  <planetmaker> I should do that ;-)
14:44:37  <LordAro> :)
14:45:16  <LordAro> sorry about Guest3705 btw, i can't do anything about it atm :L
14:45:31  <planetmaker> there you go ;-)
14:45:57  <LordAro> c&p job? :P
14:46:16  <planetmaker> 100% c&p, yes ;-)
14:46:36  <planetmaker> Except for link formatting that's not too uncommon
14:47:37  <planetmaker> Zuu, now I don't understand anymore what you want :-) So it's ok after all to report airports 10 ... 127 available?
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14:47:56  <planetmaker> I don't really think, as they're simply undefined really. Or dummy airports
14:48:23  <planetmaker> but nice to hear that CluelessPlus now starts to know something about air routes, too ;-)
14:48:28  <Zuu> If they are not defined, 10..127 should be reported "false" by both functions.
14:48:58  <Zuu> Only if there is a definition of the airport, information is available. :-)
14:49:03  <planetmaker> Good to have your ambitions getting started ;-)
14:49:12  <planetmaker> ok :-) Then we agree
14:49:42  <planetmaker> any somehow defined airport, whether it'll become available or not: report. Any dummy airport: don't report
14:49:47  <planetmaker> dummy = undefined
14:50:20  <planetmaker> but... I guess that could use an FS entry as well. I won't have time to look at it today most probably
14:50:37  <planetmaker> and if you knew how well my memory works.. .:-P
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14:53:12  <LordAro> how's this for a string splitting method?
14:55:10  <Alberth> why not look at DrawStringMultiLine() does it?
14:55:42  <LordAro> no idea :)
14:55:47  <Alberth> that handles all the weird cases that openttd has, by definition
14:56:03  <LordAro> i'm using that already though
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14:56:52  <Alberth> yeah, but it does not do what you want right? so look at it how it works, make a copy, and adapt to what you want to have
14:57:18  <LordAro> but what do i want to have?
14:57:20  <LordAro>  :)
14:58:00  <Alberth> the imho other big thing is that loading a file each time you draw the widget is not nice, you should do that in another function, and the drawwidget function should use the results of that new function
14:58:14  <Alberth> LordAro: what can I choose between?
14:59:37  <LordAro> i've got confused..
15:00:03  <Alberth> about?
15:00:42  <planetmaker> life, the universe and everything?
15:00:46  <LordAro> about what's been said :3 forget the drawstring thing for now, concentrate on the drawwidget
15:00:51  <LordAro> planetmaker: :)
15:01:09  <Alberth> they are two independent things
15:01:35  <Alberth> (notice the word "other"? :) )
15:02:14  <LordAro> ok, but how would i get the result of that function into drawwidget without calling it everytime drawwidget is run?
15:02:37  <planetmaker> I'd just cache the whole text file
15:02:38  <Alberth> a new variable !
15:03:01  <planetmaker> with its original strings, nothing re-wrapped or re-formatted
15:04:04  <Alberth> lines 237 to 245 do exactly the same each time
15:04:14  <LordAro> another variable in the declaration/definition of NewGRFReadmeWindow?
15:04:21  <Alberth> (as long as you don't change the readme file)
15:04:27  <Alberth> yep
15:04:42  <Alberth> containing what 'text' contains now
15:04:47  <planetmaker> well. changing the readme file requires that reload_newgrfs is being used.
15:04:47  <LordAro> ok, that's..doable
15:04:52  <Alberth> (at line 245)
15:06:13  <LordAro> so a new function basically containing (from the openttdcoop paste from yesterday) lines 237-245?
15:06:50  <Alberth> except line 237 is not needed as you use the new variable for that, I guess
15:07:31  <LordAro> obviously, yes :)
15:08:32  <Alberth> and you cannot just do 'return', the new function always needs to set a good value in the new variable, since DrawWidget() will just take that data and use it
15:09:11  <Alberth> obviously, a 'good' value can be NULL, as long as DrawWidget() handles that value correctly too
15:09:27  <LordAro> so a void function, that sets a variable at the end of it
15:09:58  <Alberth> not necessarily at the end, but yes.
15:12:39  <LordAro> what about the fclose() and free() ? should they be somewhere else?
15:13:21  <glx> fclose in the loading function
15:13:21  <Alberth> yes
15:13:44  <glx> free where it's needed :)
15:13:54  <Alberth> LordAro: think about when you don't need 'readme' respectively 'text' any more
15:15:21  <Alberth> afk for dinner
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16:53:11  <Zuu> So clever, CluelessPlus built heliports and then destroyed them because they had no hangars :-D
16:54:11  <LordAro> :)
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16:57:01  <Zuu> Hmm, the API does not let me select airport types that have at least one runway or in some other way sort out the helistation etc.
16:57:11  <Zuu> Other than using a list of hardcoded airports.
16:58:04  <LordAro> They will no doubt come with NewAirports
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16:59:39  <IchGuckLive> Hi all
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17:01:07  <LordAro> hello there
17:01:24  <IchGuckLive> the wiki pages are so old
17:01:37  <LordAro> update them then ;)
17:02:10  <IchGuckLive> my english is not good enoph
17:02:24  <LordAro> examples of outdated pages then?
17:02:40  <IchGuckLive> i found today a vid on youtube that realy impressed me so i will decide to give 1.1.2 a chance
17:03:12  <IchGuckLive> LordAro:
17:04:13  <LordAro> generally, all the 'what the developers are going to do next' pages are out of date
17:04:38  <LordAro> in fact, that one should probably be deleted, as it really isn't needed
17:04:41  <Ammler> IchGuckLive: there is a German wiki too
17:04:53  <IchGuckLive> Ammler: thank
17:05:01  <Ammler> oh no, there isn't, just translation
17:05:33  <IchGuckLive> im on ubuntu 10.04 anmd i think i got 0.6 last playd
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17:06:12  <IchGuckLive> the vid i saw had realy impressive trees and buses  also good trucks
17:06:28  <IchGuckLive> 32bit is this a specel version ?
17:06:32  <LordAro> sounds like the 32bpp project
17:06:41  <LordAro> yes, the extra zoom anyway
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17:11:31  <Alberth> IchGuckLive: just 32bpp can be used with standard openttd, the extra zoom version is a special version
17:11:37  <IchGuckLive> so im still searching how to install on Ubuntu 10.04
17:11:55  <IchGuckLive> 32bit
17:11:56  <LordAro> extra zoom or not?
17:12:06  <IchGuckLive> extra zoom
17:12:21  <IchGuckLive> is there also the 1.1.2 rc1 for this
17:12:47  <LordAro>
17:12:53  <LordAro> no, as its a patch
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17:14:05  <IchGuckLive> so better to go with the standard 1.1.2 as im familar to the scenes
17:14:16  <LordAro> good idea
17:14:36  <IchGuckLive> or is it the same as the 0.5
17:14:39  <LordAro> although if you're upgrading from 0.6, there will be HUGE changes :)
17:14:50  <IchGuckLive> oh
17:14:54  <IchGuckLive> O.O
17:15:05  <LordAro> good changes though
17:15:34  <IchGuckLive> i try is there also a page for the 1.1.2 rc1
17:15:57  <LordAro> though you shouldn't keep outdated software, you should upgrade anyway
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17:16:28  <IchGuckLive> so just  synaptic ?
17:16:41  <LordAro> yes
17:17:10  <IchGuckLive> Thanks
17:17:31  <LordAro> although that won't be the most up-to-date version of openttd, but it will be the most up-to-date .deb
17:17:49  <LordAro> personally, i just use a tar archive
17:17:58  <LordAro> (don't use synaptic at all)
17:18:12  <IchGuckLive> 105rc1
17:18:47  <IchGuckLive> try to find the ppa
17:18:54  <LordAro> you probably have to update ubuntu to get a newer version (simply)
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17:19:48  <LordAro> ahhh!
17:19:59  <IchGuckLive> i did but there is no one so i will use your advise just tar archive
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17:20:42  <LordAro> i suggest you put it in your home folder, e.g. ~/Openttd
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17:24:46  <IchGuckLive> still searching for the right packets
17:25:32  <LordAro>
17:25:52  <IchGuckLive> B)
17:26:33  <LordAro> replace '1.1.2-RC1' in the url with '1.1.1' if you want the latest stable version
17:26:47  <IchGuckLive> got it thanks
17:27:01  <IchGuckLive> do i need to update the open gfx also
17:27:14  <LordAro> quite possibly
17:28:03  <IchGuckLive> ther are lots of downloads available
17:28:23  <LordAro> <-- put in ~/.openttd/data directory
17:28:59  <IchGuckLive> opentddplus what is this
17:29:20  <LordAro> it doesn't work anymore (too old)
17:29:28  <IchGuckLive> ok
17:29:29  <LordAro> but it is a grf with some extra vehicles
17:29:35  <LordAro> (IIRC)
17:30:28  <IchGuckLive> Thanks will now start the game
17:30:42  <IchGuckLive> is there a Key layout for the new GUI
17:30:58  <LordAro> key layout? i don't think so
17:31:35  <IchGuckLive> i will find out
17:32:21  <LordAro> almost certainly ;)
17:40:56  <IchGuckLive> nice trees and good graphics now
17:41:17  <LordAro> opengfx?
17:41:48  <Zuu> There is a list of hotkeys on the wiki if that is what you were looking for
17:42:28  <Zuu> If you want to change any of those or add more hotkeys, you have to tweak your hotkeys.cfg (possible found as ~/.openttd/hotkeys.cfg)
17:43:11  <IchGuckLive> thanks same statrgie as it wars first kole to get the money up
17:43:39  <LordAro> the game is still openttd, it hasn't changed that much ;)
17:43:45  <IchGuckLive> or work to the list of most produktiv and wait for subvention
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17:44:47  <IchGuckLive>  ok thanks and by
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17:45:05  <LordAro> that was fun
17:45:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22689 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt hungarian.txt russian.txt):
17:45:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan
17:45:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 6 changes by IPG
17:45:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: russian - 1 changes by KorneySan
17:50:50  <LordAro> lol, mandriva is up to r691787 target? :P
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17:57:50  <Zuu> I can report that the 180degree rotated airport has airport type == 10.
17:58:28  <Zuu> (was evil and replaced an airport of CluelessPlus to see how fast it would crash :-p)
18:00:02  <Zuu> It turned out that my holding pattern code decided that the airport was invalid :-)
18:01:54  <Hirundo> rotated airport is newgrf-defined, so it gets the first ID available to newgrfs
18:02:06  <Hirundo> therefore ID == 10 makes sense, other rotations should have that ID also
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18:22:25  <Zuu> Hmm, if each rotation make use of an ID, then the 117 IDs for NewGRF airports will be used quicker than if all rotations of the same airprot had the same.
18:22:54  <frosch123> airports have views
18:24:16  <Zuu> It would make sense to have a concept of several views/rotations per airpot type as the performance of each rotation should really be the same.
18:24:46  <frosch123> it is like that
18:25:17  <Zuu> In the NoAI API the rotated small airport gets another airport type than the normal small airport.
18:26:05  <Zuu> small airport == 0.   rotated small airpot == 10
18:26:45  <planetmaker> hm, only the rotated or also the un-rotated, re-defined small airport?
18:27:29  <planetmaker> but each rotation being a separate ID is... IMHO not how it is intended. Or at least I'd not expect it that way
18:28:51  <planetmaker> Zuu: does the normal rotation of the rotatable airport not have ID=10 as well?
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18:29:40  <frosch123> Zuu: i don't get it. to me it looks as if ais cannot build alternative layouts at all
18:30:37  <Zuu> planetmaker: Nope, it is available as usal as AIAirport.AT_SMALL. So unless that constant changes by the NewGRF, no it stays at id 0.
18:30:50  <planetmaker> from ogfx+airport's source code the small airport it defines should override the default small airport. But override in that context means 'disable old and obtain new ID'
18:30:53  <Zuu> frosch123: Nope, they can't but you can give them one via cheats.
18:31:25  <planetmaker> unless I'm mistaken of course ;-)
18:31:44  <frosch123> Zuu: i would assume that only the default airport has id 0
18:31:45  <Zuu> If the small airport wouldn't be available at AT_SMALL ( == 0), then most AIs would break.
18:31:59  <frosch123> the grf defines may have id 10, independent of being rotated or not
18:32:58  <planetmaker> the NML code doesn't specify a specific ID, thus it wants the first available
18:33:23  <planetmaker> Zuu: yes, that's why it's overridden
18:33:36  <planetmaker> thus requests for id=0 are re-directed to the new ID
18:34:07  <Zuu> Just tried to print the value of AIAirport.AT_SMALL while having the Airports+ NewGRF loaded and it shows zero.
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18:35:08  <Hirundo> I'd file a bug-report and wait for Yexo to return from holidays, as he knows most about both the AI and newgrf airports
18:35:09  <Zuu> oh, didn't knew that there was a re-direction of 0 => 10.
18:35:33  <frosch123> to me it looks like the api is not ready for new airports at all :p
18:35:38  <Zuu> That said, my code would break if the API would report a small airport as id != 0.
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18:36:54  <LordAro> frosch123: i agree. until newairports is finished, there will obviously be some problems
18:38:19  <Zuu> I think that as far as the API don't let AIs build the NewGRF airports and the constants for the built in airports still work, the API can be as it is until someone decides to implement support for NewAirports.
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18:39:58  <Zuu> Apart from handling views etc. the API will need a way to get the amount of airplanes in holding (queue) and some way of judging the performance of airports. It will also need a way to tell heliports apart from regular airports. etc. etc. :-)
18:40:41  <frosch123> you would also need some list of airports
18:40:52  <frosch123> *list of airporttypes
18:41:42  <Zuu> A list can already be obtained as you know the highest allowed ID and can check each ID if it is valid or not. Although, a built in function to create a list would certainly be welcome.
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19:12:17  <Rubidium> is there any MSVC guru here? If so, do you know (by heart) whether static libraries created with MSVC2010 will be linkable by MSVC2005? And if so, does it link?
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19:28:46  <michi_cc> Rubidium: Depends on which library functions they're using I guess. Pure C will probably work, but C++ might very well not.
19:29:39  <Rubidium> it's icu
19:29:58  <Rubidium> 4.8 only has 2010 project files, which is a pita
19:30:57  <Rubidium> previously it had a 2008 project file that was trivially converted into 2005, but that's not possible anymore :(
19:32:03  <michi_cc> ICU does include C++ parts, but I don't know if it calls stuff from the c++ library that could have changed from 2005 to 2010.
19:32:58  <Rubidium> so a 'possibly it works, possibly it doesn't
19:33:04  <michi_cc> One thing that will definitely fail is a full 2010 debug build (with enabled stack checking and the other runtime debug checks), but a properly configured release build should have all that turned off.
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19:33:56  <Rubidium> enough for me to not waste hours on it trying to update icu 4.4 to 4.8 for
19:35:00  <Rubidium> oh, and did I ever mention MSVC annoys me saying "ready" when it's still very busy performing compilation?
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19:52:43  <glx> IIRC we used 2005
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19:59:27  <andythenorth> evenink
20:00:25  * andythenorth has a new router
20:00:42  <andythenorth> which shipped with a full pack of rage   :x
20:01:03  <MNIM> i know the feeling
20:01:40  <planetmaker> Zuu: the CluelessPlus update sounds great :-)
20:01:55  <planetmaker> and IMHO it's quite ok, if air services mostly targets passenger transport
20:01:56  <andythenorth> *why* would cisco ship a new router with (a) wifi password already enabled so their installer can't connect to it (b) admin password changed from their default (c) neither password included in the box?
20:02:11  <andythenorth> (d) web chat support that uses a java app that doesn't work
20:02:14  * andythenorth grumps
20:02:23  <planetmaker> :-P
20:02:27  * planetmaker hugs andythenorth
20:02:37  <planetmaker> the answer is simple of course: because they can
20:02:42  <__ln__> andythenorth: we all know that java works on all platforms, so your story must be fiction
20:03:01  <andythenorth> I wonder if amazon have sold me a pre-loved router boxed up and sold as new
20:03:08  <andythenorth> why else would passwords be set already?
20:03:23  <andythenorth> ach a vie
20:03:45  <Twerkhoven[L]> try resetting to factory settings?
20:03:53  <andythenorth> done that
20:04:01  <andythenorth> that's why I am now joining you here :)
20:04:01  *** TheMask97- [] has joined #openttd
20:04:26  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
20:04:35  <andythenorth> anyway, 802.1n dual band, mimo.   Hopefully I'll drop out of irc less :P
20:04:46  *** KouDy [] has joined #openttd
20:04:50  <Twerkhoven[L]> nice
20:04:55  * planetmaker now slows down machine for probably two hours... sudo asr -source /Volumes/MacOS -target /Volumes/backup ;-)
20:05:08  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:05:09  <planetmaker> 500GB over USB take some time :-P
20:05:15  <andythenorth> FW ftw
20:05:56  <andythenorth> USB 2 remains remarkably slower than FW for most cases
20:06:06  <andythenorth> despite nominally faster speeds
20:06:13  <andythenorth> it's about 1/8 - 1/10 as fast when I tested
20:06:17  <planetmaker> well... I don't have any FW HDD
20:06:38  <planetmaker> but that speed difference does not apply - at least to the one FW hdd I once had
20:06:38  <andythenorth> :(
20:06:53  <planetmaker> and... FW is anyway bound to die
20:07:20  <planetmaker> and normally I'm fine with this machine's USB speed
20:07:33  <planetmaker> it even works quite ok when I run the system from an external HDD
20:08:03  <planetmaker> but 500GB take their time, no matter what ;-)
20:09:01  *** TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
20:09:36  <planetmaker> but I need a 1:1 image before I update either HDD to lion
20:09:44  <planetmaker> I guess I'll update the external one
20:10:11  <Zuu> planetmaker: Thanks. It does indeed from an IRL point of view make most sense to use air for passengers, but an AI can't really trust too many assumptions ;-)
20:10:49  *** TheMask96- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:10:50  <planetmaker> Zuu: sure it can't. But I'm not sure that planes make much sense for most other cargos.
20:11:00  <planetmaker> nearly no-matter-what ;-)
20:11:16  <planetmaker> except maybe in a Berlin airlift scenario. Where you then need planes which also carry coal
20:11:19  <andythenorth> planetmaker: you know you lose all PPC apps with Lion?
20:11:26  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I do
20:11:31  <andythenorth> k
20:11:33  <planetmaker> but I don't have any ;-)
20:11:51  <planetmaker> after all my first OSX was already 10.4...
20:12:05  <__ln__> so was mine, but it's all PPC.
20:12:10  <planetmaker> :-)
20:12:28  <planetmaker> yeah... 10.4 is the transitional one
20:12:41  <planetmaker> and 10.5 and 10.6 have still rosetta. Which they now scrapped
20:13:14  <__ln__> let's not forget 10.5 still ran natively on PPC, too.
20:13:24  <planetmaker> obviously along with some other support e.g. for openttd's current implementation of the full screen code
20:13:32  <andythenorth> fricking apple and their lack of legacy support :P
20:13:53  * andythenorth rethinks the importance of legacy support
20:13:56  <planetmaker> they're not that great with that...
20:14:00  <__ln__> the current implementation of fullscreen is evil in any case, it should be replaced :/
20:14:18  <planetmaker> __ln__: well, so it needs to be now anyway
20:14:27  *** TheMask97- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:15:14  <__ln__> planetmaker: as far as i understand, the windowed mode doesn't need a lot of changes to be used as full screen mode.
20:15:51  <planetmaker> that's my understanding, too; yes
20:16:23  <planetmaker> but I won't start looking into it before I can't run 10.7 ;-)
20:19:09  *** TheMask96- [] has joined #openttd
20:22:03  <planetmaker> maybe you could start providing patches in that area, though, __ln__ ;-)
20:24:16  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
20:24:20  <__ln__> i once started looking at it, but then something else caught my attention.
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20:26:05  <__ln__> and my ibook is miserably slow for compiling, although for most other things it's still fast enough.
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20:29:05  <frosch123> oh, forums are down
20:29:15  <frosch123> so, wiki is down :/
20:29:20  <andythenorth> not for me
20:30:01  <frosch123> yeah, it's just me :/
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20:49:27  * andythenorth ponders
20:49:47  <andythenorth> I have improved a ship
20:50:03  <andythenorth> and feedback is useful
20:50:23  <andythenorth> mostly the forums have only produced rage recently though :P
20:51:42  <Hirundo> pics or it didn't happen :)
20:54:06  <andythenorth>
20:54:57  * Hirundo grabs a magnifying glass
20:56:35  <andythenorth> :P
20:57:39  <Hirundo> to me, the nose appears more pointy in the /\ views and blunt in the | view
20:57:47  <andythenorth> it probably is :)
20:58:08  <Hirundo> though arguably, the number of pixels to play with is extremely limited
20:58:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i agree with this
20:58:17  <andythenorth> I am too lazy to fix it
20:58:35  <andythenorth> :)
20:58:36  <Hirundo> I wouldn't notice, unless (like now) I'm looking at the views zoomed-in and side by side
20:58:41  <andythenorth> yup
20:58:48  <andythenorth> mostly people won't look that closely
20:59:59  <andythenorth> I'll probably improve it after I start using it in game
21:00:26  <Hirundo> same applies to the stern, albeit to a lesser extent
21:00:35  *** DOUK [~KEM@] has joined #openttd
21:01:48  <Hirundo> that's about the only thing I can find to nitpick about, it looks good as always :)
21:02:41  *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3761
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21:03:31  <andythenorth> I was concerned about use of cc / white colour
21:03:37  <andythenorth> not sure it looks good
21:03:51  <andythenorth> as overall combination
21:05:40  <Hirundo> the yellow line could become CC, not sure how that'd fit with other ships though
21:07:03  *** douknoukem [~KEM@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:08:05  <andythenorth> there is some variation already
21:08:14  <andythenorth> it's (mostly) whatever looks good
21:08:33  *** Guest3761 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:08:59  <Eddi|zuHause> grr... i'm this |<->| close to stop reading the german forum...
21:09:31  <andythenorth> well that leaves -
21:09:36  <andythenorth> so a bit left to go
21:12:01  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that would reduce the flow of quality technical answers there by at least 50%
21:12:21  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i'm thinking 80%...
21:12:52  <peter1138> arrr
21:13:22  <andythenorth> I am |<--------------------->| close to stop reading uk forum
21:13:28  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes, maybe also 80%
21:13:44  <andythenorth> 90% of my visits to 'suggestions' result in rage
21:14:11  <planetmaker> well, don't visit that. Or read it with an attitude you'd read non sequitur or dilbert
21:14:48  <andythenorth> well when your tooth hurts, you keep poking it no?
21:17:28  <seandasheep> i think i might have found a bug in multiplayer...
21:17:45  <Eddi|zuHause> please tell.
21:17:50  <MNIM> hmmmh, andy. it's a bit small to make lots of details on.
21:18:10  <MNIM> what's this intended to be for a ship, a narrowboat?
21:18:28  <seandasheep> increasing the net frame frequency to around 40, then quickly giving a train orders will put them in a different order
21:19:19  <MNIM> don't blame that on ottd, blame that on your connection.
21:19:43  <MNIM> it's quite possible your 'next order' packages are not arriving in the same order you sent 'em
21:20:03  <seandasheep> but this is on a game with no other players
21:20:12  <andythenorth> MNIM:
21:20:17  <andythenorth>
21:20:38  <andythenorth>
21:21:31  <Eddi|zuHause> seandasheep: with a detailed description of steps how to reproduce
21:21:54  <MNIM> ah. interesting.  gonna be adding a push barge?
21:21:56  <Eddi|zuHause> seandasheep: also, which version?
21:22:26  <seandasheep> will do that now, and in testing, 1.1.2 RC1
21:23:46  <andythenorth> MNIM: probably not
21:23:52  <planetmaker> seandasheep: what do you mean with "will put them in a different order"?
21:23:56  <andythenorth> although it's a fair suggestion
21:24:48  <seandasheep> renaming stations 1,2,3,4, then quickly ordering them, the actual orderlist shows 2,1,4,3
21:25:01  <seandasheep> like it's stacking orders rather than queueing them
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21:28:48  * andythenorth -> bed
21:29:26  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
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21:33:10  <seandasheep> hmm, i can't login to flyspray, i don't think i've had an account on it before...
21:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not related to the forum account
21:37:14  <seandasheep> yeh, although seandasheep was taken as a name, and it doesn't match my email address when reseeting the password, how long does an activation email take to send?
21:37:27  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:38:01  <planetmaker> should be usually quite fast
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21:38:54  *** KouDy [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:39:13  <seandasheep> hmm, my username doesn't have any validation pending.. :S
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22:01:26  <seandasheep> ok, seeing as i can't login to the bugtracker, steps to reproduce are: First, start a multiplayer server, then change network.frame_freq to 40 via the console, next line up some stations and rename them to numbers, enable quick creation of orders, buy a vehicle and quickly assign the vehicles orders, making sure you click the stations in order, then the orderlist will probablynot be in order
22:01:26  <seandasheep> if done fast enough
22:01:36  *** bfrog [] has joined #openttd
22:02:15  <bfrog> is there a easy way to setup a server like luukland's citybuilder servers?
22:02:34  <planetmaker> no
22:02:36  <bfrog> I love those how they're setup but I hate how the connection seems to drop all the time
22:02:46  <planetmaker> they're patched with unpublished patches
22:02:57  <bfrog> :-(
22:03:05  <planetmaker> and the connection drop might well be caused by a low patch quality
22:03:21  <bfrog> they're popular servers though, with the citybuilder stuff
22:03:22  <planetmaker> they just fake to be the version they claim to be
22:03:30  <planetmaker> they are
22:03:32  <bfrog> gotcha
22:03:40  *** KritiK_ [] has joined #openttd
22:03:43  <planetmaker> but they don't like to share ;-)
22:03:53  <bfrog> I guess they like being popular then :-)
22:04:33  *** KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:04:35  *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK
22:04:36  <planetmaker> maybe. Let them be
22:05:02  <planetmaker> though you can in principle do quite a few things already, if you utilize the admin port properly
22:05:07  <planetmaker> Noone does that so far, though
22:05:57  <planetmaker> There exist a few libraries (python or java) which give you an interface to it
22:06:07  <planetmaker> by which you could connect an admin bot there
22:06:44  <planetmaker> doing that, might be a good first step for server control
22:07:05  <planetmaker> as a next step... one could think of additional things such server could need - and possibly expose them there, too
22:07:22  <bfrog> yeah
22:08:05  <planetmaker> you're aware of the two admin interface libraries?
22:09:06  <planetmaker>
22:09:35  <planetmaker>
22:12:51  *** alfplayer [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
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22:13:52  <planetmaker> !players
22:13:53  *** planetmaker was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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22:14:03  <planetmaker> :-D
22:14:04  <Eddi|zuHause> test succeeded
22:14:15  <Eddi|zuHause>
22:14:16  <planetmaker> quite
22:14:35  <planetmaker> lol :-) good one
22:15:08  *** sla_ro|master [slaco@] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War -]
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22:27:09  <planetmaker> good night
22:28:59  *** seandasheep [~seandashe@] has quit []
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22:41:34  <__ln__> hah, that needs to be re-pasted when Wolf01 shows up
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