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00:21:28 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 00:39:31 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.178.95] has quit [Quit: Sleep,] 00:39:34 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 00:43:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:03:39 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-255-16.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:09:54 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:12:08 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:16:12 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:18:12 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:44:42 *** Jojjez [~Jojjez@c83-251-49-171.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:06:48 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:58 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:25:45 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-131-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:26:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B734D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B734D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:17 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-158-186.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:52:06 <Hinrik> when determining the payment for cargo, is it the actual map distance between industries which matters, or just the distance traveled? 02:52:41 <planetmaker> distance between station signs 02:53:22 <Hinrik> so, if I had a coal mine and power station in close proximity, it would actually make sense to have the train take a long zig-zag route to get more money? 02:53:41 <planetmaker> no. 02:53:41 <Hinrik> oh, wait, between stations, ah 02:53:58 <Hinrik> ok, that makes sense 03:13:42 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:7d1c:87ed:2604:d441] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:42:47 <Hinrik> hm, it seems to be pretty much impossible to build an intercontinental airport where it might be useful 03:43:09 <Hinrik> due to noise 03:43:37 <Hinrik> even though the coverage area doesn't reach the town, they still refuse 03:45:00 <Hinrik> and this is next to where the transport rating is 'Good' 03:46:38 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Airports#Airport_noise 03:46:40 <Pinkbeast> Isn't that "total airports per town"? 03:47:33 <pjpe> have a shuttle bus to get to the airport 03:47:37 <pjpe> or shuttle 03:47:39 <pjpe> MONORAIL 03:47:41 <pjpe> ogdenville has one 03:47:58 <Hinrik> and New Haverbrook! 03:54:31 <Hinrik> ah, it was North Haverbrook 04:04:19 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B734D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B737BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:17 <George> Is it possible to have procuderes that are severalactions 2, not a single line? (http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VarAction2Advanced#Using_procedures) 04:59:38 <George> can this be a procedure? 05:00:41 <George> all this huge code is only used to define 2 values (in 7D 00 and 7D 01) for future calculation 05:04:17 <George> http://pastebin.com/edfCdH0L 05:04:48 <George> I need it for several tiles, so want not to copypaste it 05:17:43 <Pikka> all of owen's servers are so slow for me today, but I don't see why it's not possible 05:20:13 <George> so the only requrement is to return 8xxx value? 05:20:39 <George> And is it ok that this procedure is not for CB, but for drawing graphics? 05:53:22 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 05:56:30 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d110-32-10-203.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:02:38 <dihedral> greetings 06:04:23 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 06:07:48 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: *Throws a nuclear warhead in the room and flees*] 06:10:26 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 06:14:59 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:23:55 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 06:30:23 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:24 *** Rubidium_ [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has joined #openttd 06:32:49 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:33 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@2a02:1680:0:1:2:1:1:6e01] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:36 *** zachanim1 [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:07:58 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-008-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:08:57 <planetmaker> moin 07:09:10 <Markk> Goedemorgen 07:09:15 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:20:00 *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium 07:25:00 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:43:06 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:43:06 *** George is now known as Guest9575 07:43:06 *** George|2 is now known as George 07:43:35 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:45:20 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 07:45:23 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 07:48:25 *** Guest9575 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:59:11 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 08:41:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BF05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:52:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B737BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:42 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B737BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:56:26 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-099-157.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:57:56 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 09:05:23 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 09:11:17 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:12:02 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:13:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22910 /trunk/ (Makefile.bundle.in Makefile.src.in src/video/sdl_v.cpp): -Fix [FS#4617]: icon would (almost) never be shown for SDL builds 09:21:50 <Hirundo> George: I have not studied your code in detail, but in general a procedure calls can consist of as many action2s as you'd want as long as the chain terminates with a callback result 09:22:03 <Hirundo> you can even do nested procedure calls if you wish 09:23:49 <George> Then I'll make a topic on the tt-forums for that case. I'm going to make a big procedure and I want some help. Also I hope my example could be useful for future GRF coding (as example) 09:24:25 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-008-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 09:30:47 <Hirundo> you can do procedure calls in the gfx callback also, but you can't return a graphics result directly from there 09:31:17 <Hirundo> if you do that, the procedure call returns with 0xFFFF in ottd/new ttdpatch, or some undefined value in old ttdpatch 09:33:45 <Terkhen> good morning 09:54:54 <appe> http://fac.dndr.se/poo/new_dump/appe_small_intestines_firstrev.mp3 yes/no? 10:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say "file not found", but that's probably too much of an in-joke ;) 10:20:56 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has joined #openttd 10:37:19 <planetmaker> hm... I nearly banned you for posting strange links without comment and context, appe 10:37:27 <planetmaker> be lucky that I saw your nick before 10:42:38 <appe> oh, sorry. 10:43:06 <appe> it's a track, and i didnt really realize the strangeness of the url :) 11:10:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C340.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:16:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D1B8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:22:06 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:10 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:56:48 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:53 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has joined #openttd 12:27:15 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c5ec:c980:a2e4:cf16] has joined #openttd 12:27:19 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:36:38 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:38:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:41:50 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 13:18:29 *** PeanutHorst [~peanutlx@115-64-68-182.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:18:51 <PeanutHorst> i would like to know if an issue i am having is a bug or a feature. 13:19:08 <PeanutHorst> basically, there are railway (conventional) carriages, but no locomotives. 13:19:14 <PeanutHorst> steps to reproduce: start a game in 2100. 13:19:28 <Yexo> you need to build electric engines 13:19:31 <Yexo> or monorail / maglev even 13:19:36 <Rubidium> that's a "feature" 13:19:45 <Yexo> hold you mouse down while clicking on the "build railway" button in the toolbar to see a list of railtypes 13:19:48 <PeanutHorst> uh, i do not have electric locomotives. 13:19:49 <Rubidium> the wagons work on all railtypes, the engines don't 13:19:50 <PeanutHorst> that is the problem 13:20:00 <Yexo> alternatively you can enable the "engines never expire" option in the game settings 13:20:04 <PeanutHorst> only monorail and maglev 13:20:17 <PeanutHorst> hr,m 13:20:27 <Yexo> that depends on the climate, there are no electric engines in arctic and tropic by default 13:21:49 <PeanutHorst> ... 13:21:55 <PeanutHorst> i'm playing arctic. 13:22:13 <PeanutHorst> bugger me, this is ridiculous... oh well, maglev time! it's the future, and all ._. 13:22:34 <Yexo> <Yexo> alternatively you can enable the "engines never expire" option in the game settings <- there is your solution if you want to keep playing with normal rail engines 13:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can load NewGRFs which change this 13:22:51 <PeanutHorst> ah, i'm playing bare atm as i'm hosting a game multi over the internet 13:22:52 <Yexo> you might need to type "resetengines" in the console after changing that setting to fix your savegame 13:22:57 <PeanutHorst> but yes, i'll play with newgrfs a bit later 13:23:31 <PeanutHorst> Yexo: nah, i'll enjoy the schwing factor of the chimaera :D but i'll note that fix for next time, and also hover here. thanks kindly! 13:50:48 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:56:03 <Belugas> hello 13:56:25 <V453000> hi Lord of Unrealism 13:56:41 <V453000> :p 13:56:43 <__ln__> Lord of Unrealism :D 13:57:27 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 14:10:54 <Belugas> hi guys :) and thanks for the title, a bit too much but still ;) 14:19:51 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-008-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:25:55 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:25:59 <Elukka> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14842999 14:26:41 *** Xaroth_ is now known as Xaroth 14:40:00 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:11 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08262e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:52:26 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:02:28 <PeanutHorst> hey, has anyone ever tried getting openttd to work on classic mac os? 15:03:07 <PeanutHorst> the thought's just occurred to me that it might be possible with a lot of patience, and i'll probably try at some point (i'm in an insane mood), but I just wanted to know if anyone else was my kind of crazy and had tried. 15:03:29 <Ammler> it worked in past 15:03:32 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:03:46 <Ammler> I guess, with 0.6 15:03:56 <Rubidium> Ammler: are you sure? 15:04:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 15:04:41 <PeanutHorst> Ammler: i'm guessing a lot's changed since then :p 15:04:54 <PeanutHorst> but iot's a start! 15:05:24 <Ammler> Rubidium: no, just guessing, time as Bjarni made the bins 15:05:49 <peter1138> for pre-os x? 15:05:51 <Rubidium> then you're guessing quite wrong 15:06:30 <PeanutHorst> peter1138: yeah, os 8.6 and 9 15:06:42 <PeanutHorst> i'm not really expecting to compile for system 7 on a 68k 15:06:50 <PeanutHorst> but being able to play on my power mac might be a nice diversion 15:06:58 *** pugi__ [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-153-180.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 15:07:07 <__ln__> i STRONGLY doubt ottd ever worked on MacOS classic 15:07:30 <Ammler> only osx bins 15:07:47 <PeanutHorst> ah, Ammler, i meant os 9, hence "classic" 15:07:52 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-099-157.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:07:53 *** pugi__ is now known as pugi 15:07:58 <PeanutHorst> i know os x is still supported, it's too unixish to not be :p 15:08:00 <Rubidium> 0.1.4 has only MacOSX binaries; nobody ever made any earlier binaries AFAIK 15:08:13 <Rubidium> unless you're talking about MorphOS and such 15:08:28 <PeanutHorst> oooh, morphos >:3 15:08:57 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:09:25 <__ln__> i wonder if the latest Macs with classic are even powerful enough to run OTTD, even if someone managed to compile it. 15:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> PeanutHorst: there are lots of things not-unix-y enough to make it a real trouble to support OS X 15:11:11 <peter1138> __ln__, power mac g4 should be able to cope 15:14:39 <PeanutHorst> __ln__: if a DOS machine can cope... 15:15:07 <PeanutHorst> what's the average on that, a 486dx2? 15:15:16 <PeanutHorst> let's be generous and say openttd would want a pentium 166 mmx 15:15:26 <peter1138> openttd is probably a bit more demanding that ttd was... 15:15:41 <PeanutHorst> yes, but if it still targets DOS as more than a "look, we can target DOS" 15:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i ran original transport tycoon on a 386 DX 25 15:15:47 <__ln__> PeanutHorst: OTTD will definitely not run on a 486dx 15:15:49 <PeanutHorst> it has some expectations about what a DOS machine is 15:15:52 <peter1138> PeanutHorst, it doesn't :) 15:15:58 <Eddi|zuHause> although it significantly slowed down with more than 5 trains :p 15:16:07 <PeanutHorst> peter1138: so it targets DOS for show then? :P 15:16:26 <peter1138> i don't know if it even works... 15:16:40 <PeanutHorst> hrm 15:16:46 <PeanutHorst> shame 15:16:46 <__ln__> besides, who says you can't install DOS on a brand new Core i7? 15:17:02 <PeanutHorst> i had a 486dx4 here that I was thinking of compiling OpenTTD for, just to see if it would be possible to enjoy :p 15:17:26 <Rubidium> it works besides networking 15:17:30 <PeanutHorst> __ln__: uh, common sense, given that most new computers don't even really use a proper BIOS 15:17:42 <Rubidium> on computers where allegro supports the hardware 15:17:44 <peter1138> they don't? 15:17:44 <PeanutHorst> Rubidium: shame, what's needed to get networking going under DOS? 15:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> DX4? did such a thing exist? 15:17:53 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yes 15:17:57 <PeanutHorst> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but it was really a 3x multi 15:18:00 <PeanutHorst> 3x 33 == 100 15:18:10 <PeanutHorst> hence you have 3.3v part intel dx4-100 15:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> 3x33 is DX2 15:18:19 <Rubidium> PeanutHorst: some library, don't know which one exactly 15:18:19 <peter1138> 2x33 15:18:21 <PeanutHorst> Eddi|zuHause: ... oh no you didn't. DX2 is 66 15:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> DX is 2x33 15:18:36 <Rubidium> PeanutHorst: and probably quite a number of other changes 15:18:38 <Eddi|zuHause> SX is 33 15:18:41 <PeanutHorst> no it isn't 15:18:43 <peter1138> nope :) 15:18:45 <PeanutHorst> SX is non-floating point 15:18:45 <peter1138> DX is 33 15:18:47 <PeanutHorst> DX is fpu 15:18:51 <PeanutHorst> SX and DX are 33 15:18:58 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, then my impression is wrong 15:19:07 <PeanutHorst> quite. 15:19:07 <peter1138> how could you not know about 20 year old obsolete processors? :p 15:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i had an SX 25 laptop 15:19:15 <PeanutHorst> peter1138: he's from germany 15:19:19 <PeanutHorst> they're only state of the art there 15:19:22 <PeanutHorst> i know, i'm german ;) 15:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it should still work, but the battery is dead 15:19:53 * peter1138 had a DX2 66 that was actually an overclocked 50 15:20:06 <peter1138> found that out a bit late to complain :p 15:20:13 <PeanutHorst> peter1138: hahaha what 15:20:19 * __ln__ had a DX33 15:20:35 <PeanutHorst> i'm hoping with adequate cooling it might be possible to configure a DX4-100 to run at 40 x3, or 120 15:20:43 <PeanutHorst> just give it a bit of a bootst 15:20:52 <peter1138> well, there were official DX4-120s 15:20:58 <PeanutHorst> back in those days, extra MHz actually meant something 15:21:06 <peter1138> it still does 15:21:15 <peter1138> 2.4 -> 3.0 is rather noticable for me 15:21:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i took the processor with the lowest speed 15:21:39 <PeanutHorst> peter1138: not intel, not - there was Am486, and there was Cyrix 5x86-133 (internally 4x, configured as 2x on the mobo, 33MHz bus) 15:21:43 <__ln__> peter1138: overclocked a q6600? 15:21:48 <peter1138> exactly 15:22:24 <peter1138> PeanutHorst, might've been an amd, yeah, still it was officially a dx4 120 15:22:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i had a Cyrix 6x86-200 (i think) 15:22:35 <__ln__> i tried the same, but at least with that bios version, lost the speedstep functionality as a consequence, so it wasn't an option. 15:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but it blew up 15:22:45 <peter1138> probably slower than than intel dx4 100 though, heh 15:22:47 <PeanutHorst> Eddi|zuHause: that's a socket 5 processor 15:22:51 <PeanutHorst> or a socket 7, perhaps 15:22:52 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, they did that :) 15:23:30 <peter1138> __ln__, i only get 66% and 100% anyway 15:23:38 <peter1138> 1.6/2.4 (or 2.0/3.0) 15:25:04 <peter1138> i tend to set it to 3.0 anyway 15:25:18 <peter1138> cos linux is a bit dumb and doesn't always ramp it up when it should 15:25:53 <peter1138> some games stay stuck at 2.0, but they run much faster when 3.0 is used 15:26:23 <__ln__> are you using the intel boxed cooler or something bigger? 15:26:23 <peter1138> something to do with waiting briefly for the gpu, i blieve 15:26:39 <peter1138> freezer pro 7 or something like that 15:26:50 <peter1138> i never tried it with the stock cooler 15:27:05 <peter1138> i never tried more than 3 either 15:27:52 *** kbrooks [~kbrooks@d24-235-130-117.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #openttd 15:27:56 <kbrooks> hello 15:28:12 <kbrooks> I tried pressing ctrl+alt+c 15:28:26 <peter1138> did your computer explode? 15:28:30 <kbrooks> and the cheat window did not load. 15:29:08 <kbrooks> openttd 1.1.0... 15:29:47 <kbrooks> should i try latest stable and see? 15:30:36 <peter1138> did you try ctrl-alt-shift-c 15:30:45 <peter1138> or maybe that wasn't the alternative combination 15:31:21 <Yexo> ctrl-alt-win-c is the alternative one 15:31:41 <peter1138> (and, of course, are you in a single player game, not networked...) 15:31:54 <kbrooks> thx peeter, and im in single 15:34:14 <confound> misread that as "I'm single" and I was wondering when this became a pickup spot 15:35:31 <kbrooks> funny 15:35:40 <confound> thanks 15:36:50 <kbrooks> confound, i misread you as peter1138 15:37:11 <confound> we do look very similar 15:38:30 <Elukka> confound this confusion! 15:38:48 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:40:18 <Eddi|zuHause> how can you mix up confound with peter1138? they have totally different colours :p 15:40:42 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:41:47 <Elukka> i occasionally mix up people whose nicks start with "El..." with myself 15:41:57 <Elukka> and i'm like "What, I didn't say tha- Oh." 15:47:24 <Elukka> nobody would happen to know a place to go to for reference pics and such of prussian wagons? 15:47:36 <Elukka> best i can think of is the catalogs of model rail companies 15:47:54 <Elukka> which while reasonably accurate are usually pretty limited 15:56:58 <Elukka> ah, heh, oberhÃŒmer posted some nice pics 15:59:01 <kbrooks> Eddi|zuHause, similiar writing style it seemed 16:00:27 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 16:00:58 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 16:18:14 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 16:18:23 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:45 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 16:48:53 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:48:55 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:04:17 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:12:43 *** kbrooks [~kbrooks@d24-235-130-117.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:13:15 *** kbrooks [~kbrooks@d24-235-130-117.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #openttd 17:19:36 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:41:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host26-234-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:41:52 <Wolf01> hoy 17:42:38 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22911 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt russian.txt unfinished/persian.txt): 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by ElNounch 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: persian - 48 changes by Peymanpn 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: russian - 3 changes by akasoft 17:46:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22912 /trunk/src/ai/ai_scanner.cpp: -Fix [FS#4753]: another attempt at fixing a related crash (can't reproduce it though) 18:04:24 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has joined #openttd 18:04:24 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest9636 18:04:24 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 18:04:35 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:07:15 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@p579411DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:25 *** Guest9636 [~wolf01@host26-234-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:41 <fjb|mobile> Moin 18:07:55 <Alberth> moin, moving fjb 18:08:42 <fjb|mobile> :-) 18:13:40 <__ln__> hmm.. if i'm running a 1.1.2 server, can i downgrade it to 1.1.1 and load the saved game? 18:14:50 <Yexo> yes (why would you want to do that?) 18:16:00 <__ln__> it's plan B if a friend fails to compile/acquire 1.1.2 for his distro 18:19:25 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd62a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:23:15 <V453000> does FIRS influence the growth of towns anyhow? 18:23:28 <V453000> (I dont think it does but I rather ask) 18:26:25 <Alberth> perhaps indirectly (as in making it more difficult to produce goods needed by towns)? 18:26:50 <V453000> hmm, but do towns _need_ goods? 18:27:33 <Alberth> (I am however quite sure you are much better up-to-date with town growth conditions ;) ) 18:28:00 <Alberth> depends on climate afaik 18:28:26 <Alberth> (and perhaps not exactly 'goods') 18:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> FIRS gives Goods the TE_WATER flag, so they are needed in desert 18:29:54 <V453000> oh :) thanks Eddi 18:30:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (it will say that in the town window) 18:31:29 <planetmaker> __ln__: 1.1.3-RC1 should work (again) as static... he could just download and unzip 18:33:06 <kbrooks> hey 18:33:44 <kbrooks> so when i click on go to in the vehicle window and click on a sation it doesn't wwork properlyy 18:34:13 <__ln__> planetmaker: i think he found some way, at least he joined the server. :) but thanks 18:34:23 <Elukka> in my experience cities grow almost uncontrollably fast even with the slowest setting and with only passenger service 18:34:52 <Elukka> though that could be cargodist's indirect doing 18:36:59 <Alberth> kbrooks: 'does not work properly' is not something we understand 18:37:22 <kbrooks> when i click on the station it does noot show in the orders 18:37:36 <Alberth> wrong type of station? 18:37:56 <Alberth> (bus to train station, bus to lorry station, truck to bus station? 18:38:02 <kbrooks> hmm 18:38:05 <kbrooks> youre riight 18:38:07 <kbrooks> thx 18:38:25 <Alberth> yw :) 18:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "Paypal tries to enforce USA's Cuba embargo onto german companies and their customers" 18:39:15 <Alberth> duh :) 18:40:14 <Alberth> what else would you expect from a True Americal Company? 18:40:20 <Alberth> *American 18:40:56 <Rubidium> true? In what sense? 18:41:31 <Alberth> in being American, of course 18:42:18 <z-MaTRiX> hiiii 18:42:19 <Rubidium> but why am I paying a Luxembourgian company? 18:42:58 <Wolf01> less taxes 18:43:07 <z-MaTRiX> because its cool to play an exotic company 18:43:08 <Eddi|zuHause> subsidiaries 18:43:12 <Alberth> or do you know an american company that ignores what the american politicians say, for their outside America clients? 18:43:13 <z-MaTRiX> offshore 18:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> luxemburg doesn't even have a shore :p 18:43:40 <z-MaTRiX> no matter 18:44:25 <Rubidium> Alberth: yes... 18:44:43 <z-MaTRiX> you will make a bank account in switzerland 18:44:47 <Rubidium> e.g. google; I doubt the American politicians are fine with the filtering for China etc. 18:46:07 <z-MaTRiX> who needs filtering? 18:46:17 <z-MaTRiX> į can do my own blacklist for adservers 18:46:31 <Alberth> but the Chinese people suffer the filter, not the american people, so I doubt politicians care much 18:47:05 <Alberth> z-MaTRiX: filter your browser program away :) 18:47:55 <z-MaTRiX> there are other means getting one 18:48:12 <z-MaTRiX> and there are proxies 18:48:43 <z-MaTRiX> are you in chinese? 18:49:01 <Yexo> <Alberth> (bus to train station, bus to lorry station, truck to bus station? <- I've been confused by that case myself, I think we should show an error message 18:49:08 <Yexo> especially truck/bus can be confusing 18:50:20 * Alberth considers that a good idea 18:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> we already have an error message for articulated bus to bus terminal, right? 18:55:39 <__ln__> i wish to register a complaint 18:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you know where those go 18:56:54 <__ln__> somebody has changed the default signal to something that does not stop the trains 18:58:12 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe you changed signals while trains were nearby? 18:58:41 <planetmaker> signals always were meant just as art-deco 19:03:15 <Terkhen> see you tomorrow 19:13:23 <planetmaker> enjoy, Terkhen 19:33:09 <Elukka> paypal has a history of doing everything the american government thinks to ask of them 19:33:42 <Elukka> meanwhile the government does everything the corporations think to ask of them, they have a very understanding relationship :P 19:35:14 *** Lachie_ [whitey@creep.bur.st] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:22 *** Lachie [whitey@creep.bur.st] has joined #openttd 19:47:28 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:55:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:00:08 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-142-54.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:28:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22913 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [OSX]: make splash work again and make it work without needing to bundle it first 20:41:31 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:50:38 *** b_jonas [~x@russell2.math.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 20:52:59 <b_jonas> I've set up a game deliberately easy, that is, no competitors and lots of money and lots of industries and towns 20:53:21 <b_jonas> strangely, as I know how the game works, I can enjoy that mode too 20:53:25 <b_jonas> I didn't think I would 20:53:28 <b_jonas> but I do enjoy it 20:54:01 <b_jonas> I'll have to upgrade my openttd now 20:54:16 <Elukka> my challenge in the game is "how do i get all these people/this cargo this city/industry produces to where they want to go" 20:54:37 <b_jonas> I currently have 1.1.1. Should I upgrade to 1.1.2, or directly to 1.1.3-RC1 instead? 20:54:40 <Elukka> with cargo destinations passengers are particularly interesting 20:54:55 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 20:55:04 <b_jonas> however, the game says that houses accept "unknown cargo" 20:55:14 <b_jonas> besides passengers and mail and goods 20:56:24 <b_jonas> hmm, where do I download the RC? 20:59:31 <b_jonas> http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable lists only the stable 21:00:40 <b_jonas> ah, found it: http://www.openttd.org/en/download-testing 21:02:26 <Yexo> <b_jonas> however, the game says that houses accept "unknown cargo" <- most likely cause: you removed newgrfs from a running game 21:02:43 <Yexo> if you didn't change the newgrf config, please upload your savegame somewhere so we can figure out where the bug is 21:03:08 <planetmaker> some japanese(?) newgrf may cause that (or similar), iirc. Even without newgrf addremove 21:03:11 <b_jonas> Yexo: I don't think I have removed after starting the game 21:03:19 <b_jonas> planetmaker: yes, I'm using some japanese 21:03:27 <planetmaker> newgrf bug 21:03:35 <b_jonas> I can upload the savegame, 21:03:36 <Yexo> easily resolved then :) 21:03:52 <Yexo> nah, if planetmaker already knows it's a bug in some japanese grf it's no use 21:03:54 <b_jonas> but first I'll upgrade openttd and opengfx 21:03:59 <b_jonas> okay, I won't then 21:04:06 <b_jonas> thanks 21:05:35 <b_jonas> I'm also learning to use PBS exclusively in this game 21:06:01 <Elukka> PBS is amazing 21:06:05 <b_jonas> yes 21:06:57 <b_jonas> a large part of the wiki still explains how to make efficient junctions with pre-signals, much of which is obsolate because you can do more efficient with much simpler junctions using pbs 21:07:11 <planetmaker> there's nothing wrong with pre-signals 21:07:22 <planetmaker> but yes :-) 21:07:30 <planetmaker> path signals are easier to handle 21:07:33 <b_jonas> yes 21:07:47 <Elukka> PBS is more intuitive, easier and more forgiving 21:07:48 <b_jonas> and it seems there are very few things you can do with block and presignals but can't do with path signals 21:08:04 <Elukka> though you want to be really careful with that safe waiting position thing 21:08:06 <planetmaker> load balancing ;-) 21:08:30 <Elukka> otherwise it'll come back and bite you in the ass as your network grows 21:08:35 <b_jonas> yep, I got some trains stuck by design errors 21:08:54 <b_jonas> and from misclicking and not noticing signals facing the wrong way 21:10:35 <b_jonas> I've got lucky with a steel mill with three iron ore mines very close, producing 720, 720, 360 respectively 21:10:41 <b_jonas> and there's also a factory close 21:10:58 <b_jonas> (plus a farm and a smaller iron ore mine) 21:11:22 <b_jonas> so now I had to design an efficient track to transport all the goods to a faraway city 21:11:33 <b_jonas> but it works now 21:12:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22914 /trunk/src/saveload/order_sl.cpp: -Fix [FS#4716]: old TTO/TTD savegames could get non-stop via orders upon savegame loading, even when those orders did not exist back then. This 'conversion' feature is something for TTDPatch and old OpenTTD savegames 21:12:58 <b_jonas> in this game I'm using newgrfs that don't change the game mechanics much but add new graphics 21:13:12 <b_jonas> new stations and houses, but same vehicles and industries 21:16:18 <b_jonas> ok, game and opengfx upgraded 21:16:51 <b_jonas> yep, "invalid cargo" still there 21:17:14 <planetmaker> maybe bug them to release an update with just the cargo issue fixed 21:17:28 <planetmaker> though you can safely ignore that cargo. No harm in that particular case 21:17:30 <planetmaker> just ugly 21:17:56 <b_jonas> and yes, it's probably the Japanese set, because according to the land query tool, only Japanese houses seem to accept it, not the Swedish houses 21:19:54 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 21:19:55 <b_jonas> what bothers me is still how transparency is handled 21:20:09 <b_jonas> no setting I can find hides the smoke of power stations 21:20:21 <b_jonas> and that smoke is large and distracting if you want to see what's behind 21:21:14 <b_jonas> also, I think hiding the fences around railway tracks should be a separate button on the transparency toolbar, not just a part of "full detail" 21:21:30 <b_jonas> because those fances are not only a performance thing, sometimes they're distracting 21:21:38 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x573c4281.espnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:21:41 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 21:22:18 <b_jonas> but maybe instead it's the whole full detail that should be a button on the toolbar 21:22:38 <b_jonas> remind me what effect it has besides hiding fences around rail and trees from town roads? 21:23:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there was also something with road reconstruction graphics 21:25:09 <b_jonas> I might have been a bit too eager while terraforming this mountain here 21:25:26 <b_jonas> maybe I should have planned the tracks first and then flatten only where needed 21:25:56 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has joined #openttd 21:26:44 <b_jonas> I don't think I ever ran so many trains on the same route. 12 trains. 21:27:38 <planetmaker> only? :-) 21:27:41 <__ln__> Bjarni! 21:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: not entirely sure r22914 is the right thing to do... 21:27:54 <Bjarni> I have used way more than 12 on a line 21:27:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r22915 /trunk/src/ (aircraft.h aircraft_cmd.cpp saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp): -Fix (r22743): TTO savegames with any aircraft not in an hangar caused crashes during load 21:28:21 <Bjarni> doesn't sound impressive unless you tell they have 40 cars each or something 21:29:12 <b_jonas> no, only 12 cars 21:29:19 <b_jonas> 12 cars each 21:29:49 <Bjarni> 144 cars in total.... not that extreme 21:30:06 <Bjarni> though 12 cars is a good size with the right engine 21:30:09 <b_jonas> probably. but I still think it's the highest I've got 21:30:24 <b_jonas> engine is asiastar now 21:30:56 <Bjarni> I once tried 100 cars or something like that.... looks impressive, but it performs horribly, even with enough engines 21:31:08 <b_jonas> let me check how many I have in the ttdpach game for the sawmill, but I think it was less 21:31:42 <Bjarni> it's not important 21:32:05 <Bjarni> having a whole lot of trains on a line isn't a goal on it's own 21:32:57 <b_jonas> yes, the goal is to transport as much of the 720+720+360 iron and the steel and goods as possible 21:33:14 <b_jonas> and the goods to far away 21:33:35 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:34:01 <Elukka> note that the more you transport and the faster your vehicles go, the more likely the production increases 21:34:18 <Elukka> you always want to have at least one vehicle loading at an industry station 21:34:39 * Bjarni imagines somebody thinking the number of trains as an important factor and makes a fleet of trains with just one car each 21:34:45 <b_jonas> I mean, I could add more trains but it would get worse 21:35:24 <b_jonas> more smaller trains can be important if you transport long distance and want higher rating 21:37:17 <Elukka> i don't think there's technically any difference whether it's just 2 trains 21:37:22 <b_jonas> but I think once I upgrade this to maglev, these 12 trains should give a consistent 100% rating 21:37:31 <Elukka> as long as the second hasn't finished loading before the first returns 21:37:52 <b_jonas> Elukka: hmm 21:37:56 <Elukka> but it's not terribly practical to make overlong trains! 21:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i think 15 tiles was my longest 21:39:06 <Eddi|zuHause> with slightly shortened wagons 21:39:16 <b_jonas> I might be able to add a few more trains here, but first I'd like to see that they consistently don't get stuck at either station 21:39:19 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd62a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:37 <Elukka> if your station is properly designed they won't ;) 21:39:49 <b_jonas> but it's probably better to just wait for maglev (or upgrade to monorail now) 21:40:01 <b_jonas> I _think_ it's properly designed, but I'm not sure 21:40:15 <Elukka> heh 21:41:34 <b_jonas> the factory station is easy because it's in open space, but the city station is a bit squeezed both because it has to be close to the city to accept goods and because there's another small town close 21:42:05 <b_jonas> that small town is still angry at me for terraforming so I can't bulldoze it down yet 21:42:08 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:30 <b_jonas> but I was careful and knew this so I have a small passenger station in it so the rating eventually rises 21:43:16 <b_jonas> I think I'm at permanent war with only two towns 21:43:19 <b_jonas> in this game 21:43:30 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:45:22 <b_jonas> hmm wait 21:46:44 <b_jonas> which stations count for the slow increase/decrease of authority ratings? only ones in the inner city area, any within the town's authority, or any that'd be named from that town? 21:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause> all with the city's name in it 21:54:51 <Elukka> you can also bribe 21:54:56 <Elukka> or plant trees, which is a tad silly :D 21:55:00 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: tyanks 21:55:14 <b_jonas> yes, I often try planting trees 21:55:42 <b_jonas> it can help when I'm just a bit below, but when rating is very low and town is already surrounded by trees then it's hard to get rating back that way 21:56:25 * Eddi|zuHause tries to not tell about the tree cheat right now 21:56:27 <b_jonas> I haven't tried bribing yet, but apparently when your rating is very bad then an unsuccessful bribe is better than a successful one 21:56:39 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: I know, destroy all the trees, rebuild trees 21:56:44 <b_jonas> I've tried 21:56:45 <b_jonas> it's not easy 21:57:40 <b_jonas> in theory if you wait for 14 years you get your rating back just for doing nothing 21:57:45 <b_jonas> that also doesn't seem to work well for me 21:58:05 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B737BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:10 <b_jonas> dunno, councils just don't behave for me like it's described in the wiki 21:58:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B737BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:58:36 <Bjarni> Oh dear.... just when I thought politicians couldn't get any lower they still find a way to get lower: physical assault. Some guy was in a panel debate and all he did was talking about room decorations. Some other politician asked him to be serious or be replaced by another party member and this was replied by a hand flying into his head 22:00:09 <Bjarni> the "best" part is: his son states that he gets like that once in a while and it becomes impossible to reach him 22:01:33 <Bjarni> why are the politicians such freaks and/or idiots? 22:02:17 <b_jonas> plus, I'd still like an easier way in the interface to add a train to a group 22:05:05 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 22:13:19 <Wolf01> 'night 22:13:23 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:15:32 <b_jonas> night 22:19:11 *** csaba [~csaba@92.63.21.202] has joined #openttd 22:19:39 <csaba> the oil tankers cost like million a piece, any idea why? 22:21:44 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-008-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:23:00 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:23:31 <Elukka> csaba: oil tankers as in ships or train cars, in vanilla or a grf set? 22:25:15 <planetmaker> inflation. Different currency. cost newgrf 22:27:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C340.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34:02 <b_jonas> csaba: how much does the best train cost in the same game? 22:35:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C4F1.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 22:41:18 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:18 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:10 <csaba> the best train is around 200K 23:14:35 <csaba> oil tankers as in ships 23:14:48 <csaba> the ships cost several millions to build, no idea why... 23:15:38 <V453000> because ships are retarded 23:15:40 <V453000> most likely 23:17:30 <pjpe> grfs aren't always well balanced 23:17:43 <pjpe> the dutch tram set has trams that only fit like 50 passengers max 23:17:52 <pjpe> like every other tram set has the real life number of 100+ 23:18:44 <Bjarni> It's really easy to make completely unbalanced and unrealistic grf files 23:18:49 <Elukka> i like long vehicles for road vehicle balancing 23:18:59 <Elukka> makes them actually useful, especially when coupled with a high running costs train set 23:19:01 <Bjarni> it's tough to make well balanced ones though 23:19:14 <Elukka> although internally lv has bizarre balance decisions 23:19:43 <Elukka> like, some buses have 00/month maintenance and some marginally faster bus is 00/month and is obviously never worth it 23:19:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BF05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:51 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:06 <Bjarni> sometimes real life is like that 23:22:24 <Bjarni> ok, it could be a bit extreme 23:22:30 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:24:03 <b_jonas> real life _is_ like that 23:24:31 <Bjarni> I have one real life example. In 1952 a Danish locomotive factory sold a 750 hp diesel locomotive design. One railroad asked for a version without turbocharger and they got that. 23:24:46 <Bjarni> the problem is.... without turbocharger it only had 500 hp 23:24:56 <Bjarni> and it used more diesel for each hp 23:24:56 <b_jonas> the 00/month one is bought because the owner of the factory is the cousin of the town mayor, or a blonde that went to bed with him 23:25:03 <Elukka> haha 23:25:14 <Elukka> i think lv is meant to have intracity and intercity buses 23:25:23 <Elukka> the former have more capacity but are slow, the latter have less capacity but are faster 23:25:33 <Elukka> it's just the intercity buses are so expensive to run they're useless 23:26:05 <pjpe> why on earth did they ask for that 23:26:24 <Bjarni> they didn't want to maintain a turbocharger 23:26:27 <pjpe> is long vehicles the one that has like 1000 vehicles 23:26:31 <pjpe> and some of them from real life 23:26:36 <pjpe> like the model t and mercedes tour busses 23:26:38 <pjpe> and so on? 23:26:56 <Elukka> ummm mmaybe 23:27:06 <pjpe> that one always kinds of rubs me the wrong way 23:27:09 <pjpe> just too many vehicles 23:27:19 <Elukka> it doesn't have terribly many though so i dunno 23:27:56 <Elukka> http://george.zernebok.net/logo.png 23:27:59 <Elukka> does it look like that? 23:28:05 <pjpe> yes 23:28:10 <pjpe> with the weird futuristic one in the top left 23:28:16 <Elukka> i've used it for forever 23:28:28 <pjpe> these sets should really come with condensed versions 23:28:30 <pjpe> 2cc could use one 23:29:00 <Elukka> i think the modern vehicles are maybe a bit too big but i like the graphics and it's the only road vehicle set i know of where the trucks have any use 23:30:38 <Elukka> definitely my favorite road vehicle grf 23:33:46 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-142-54.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:28 <Bjarni> because of the vehicle stats or because of the graphics? 23:35:42 <Bjarni> for all we know you could be staring at the uncut sprites all the time :p 23:38:12 <Elukka> i use the cut version not because i dislike looking at boobs but i feel it's a bit out of place :P 23:39:15 <planetmaker> pjpe: make a list of which vehicles make up the condensed version and suggest it in the resp. newgrf threads 23:40:01 <planetmaker> alternatively or additionally: you should learn to code newgrfs ;-) 23:41:34 <Elukka> ridiculously long vehicle lists like 2cc's don't make me go "hm this could use with some trimming", it makes me go "oooooh so many little pixel trains \o/" 23:41:44 <pjpe> maybe i will 23:41:49 <pjpe> i have no idea how 2cc is set up though 23:41:53 <pjpe> i looked through the source 23:41:59 <pjpe> and golly thats a lot more nml than i care to learn 23:42:26 <pjpe> but i might make a list 23:42:41 <pjpe> like i like having all the vehicles it has now but sometimes it just feels like too much 23:43:05 <Elukka> i can see why one would want a set where everything has a thought out role with nothing extraneous 23:43:43 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has joined #openttd 23:44:17 <planetmaker> 2ccTS is written in nfo 23:47:38 <Pinkbeast> I think a "real world" vehicles set is always going to have lots of spurious vehicles because of the way speed is so important in OTTD 23:48:58 <Pinkbeast> Unless you're deliberately reducing income to make a more interesting layout (and there's nothing wrong with that) you're 99% of the time going to want the most powerful and/or quick vehicles, and you'll never use (eg) a shunting locomotive 23:49:34 <planetmaker> depends :-) But you're most often right 23:50:21 <Pinkbeast> Well, you're _so often_ having capacity problems that it becomes very difficult to do anything else. 23:51:11 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:51:12 <valhallasw> it's mostly that shunting is irrelevant 23:51:35 <valhallasw> shunting corresponds to a hub-spoke infrastructure 23:51:55 <valhallasw> where wagons are uncoupled and recombined 23:51:59 <Pinkbeast> valhalla> I don't think it is. I mean, that's why one rarely uses shunting engines, but any low-power engine is going to see limited use however cheap it is. 23:52:16 <Pinkbeast> It's Pikka's "Deltics everywhere" problem 23:52:41 <valhallasw> well, locomotives are too cheap 23:53:02 <valhallasw> in real life, you would take some time to replace a locomotive, because of the cost 23:53:32 <valhallasw> but in general, you don't buy slow, old, locomotives 23:53:36 <Pinkbeast> I think that's more down to the essentially unlimited supply of money in the middle and late game. 23:54:12 <Pinkbeast> ... and the lack of an "autoreplace when older than n years" option, and the way that having trains of different speeds works even worse than IRL. 23:55:06 <Pinkbeast> But even if I only replaced locomotives when old, I would almost certainly (if, again, playing without an eye on reality) always pick a new and powerful locomotive at replacement time 23:55:49 <Pinkbeast> I don't see it as a problem, really - a "real world" set can have less useful vehicles in, reality fans can use them, people "just playing" can not, everyone's happy. 23:56:05 <Pinkbeast> ... except Pikka going "why do all UKRS1 games use Deltics all the time"? :-/ 23:56:31 *** Swissfan91 [Swissfan91@5e0ad068.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 23:59:09 <Bjarni> there is a serious balance issue regarding replacing vehicles compared to real life 23:59:55 <Bjarni> I mean it's not difficult for me to find real life locomotives, which are like 50 years old still running freight trains