Log for #openttd on 16th November 2011:
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00:10:03  <TomyLobo> i just sent a train to service
00:10:14  <TomyLobo> it came out of the shed with 99% reliability
00:10:23  <TomyLobo> and broke down 3 tiles later -_-
00:15:42  <Eddi|zuHause> they do that, yes
00:18:56  <DabuYu> i often run with the option 'disable breakdowns' - i find breakdowns highly annoying and not really realistic...
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07:38:39  <planetmaker> moin
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07:41:27  <andythenorth> hi planetmaker
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08:18:13  <dihedral> greetings
08:21:45  <planetmaker> hi dihedral
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08:27:13  <Celestar> \o
08:34:05  <dihedral> oi
08:36:41  <Terkhen> good morning
08:43:22  <appe> morning
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09:35:26  * Celestar doesn't like the behavior of "raise land"
09:35:40  <Celestar> because it doesn't actually raise land.
09:36:28  <MNIM> that's... kinda odd?
09:38:47  <planetmaker> should it be called level land to h+1?
09:39:20  <Celestar> planetmaker: I think it should preserve the shape of the levelled land?
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09:39:48  <planetmaker> possibly
09:40:09  <planetmaker> it should raise all covered corners by +1
09:40:31  <planetmaker> s/corners/grid nodes/
09:41:59  <planetmaker> at least in the SE it would be much better
09:42:09  <Celestar> I might do that :P
09:44:02  <Celestar> can you default sound and music to -snull -mnull in the config file?
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09:44:54  <planetmaker> I guess not. But you can select NoSound and NoMusic sets
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09:45:46  <planetmaker> oh no! andy the frosch joined again. Nearly on the same second! ;-)
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09:46:17  <frosch123> i scared him
09:46:35  <planetmaker> hide and seek? :-)
09:47:33  * andythenorth client froze :P
09:47:34  <andythenorth> s
09:47:42  <andythenorth> silly old colloquy
09:49:08  <planetmaker> andythenorth: give limechat a shot
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09:51:14  <andythenorth> how shell-esque
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09:52:04  <andythenorth> so far nobody has pointed out that YACS will make the world end
09:54:06  <peter1138> so will YAEZ, YACD, YAIM and YAMA
09:54:25  <peter1138> and YAPP is terrible because block signals are always superior, or soemthing like that
09:54:41  <b_jonas> it's not the end of the world, it will just kill OTTD
09:54:48  <b_jonas> :)
09:59:05  <Celestar> YACS?
09:59:10  <Celestar> cargo scheme?
10:01:24  <andythenorth> cargo scheme
10:01:53  <peter1138> hmm
10:02:05  <peter1138> i wonder how celestar's CD compares to YACD
10:03:29  <frosch123> isn't the biggest diffeence in the handling of towns?
10:03:56  <frosch123> one takes stations as destinations, the other one takes houses as destination afaik
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10:13:59  <Celestar> peter1138: the biggest problem of mine was that in the last version, only a single route was computed.
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10:16:54  <Celestar> it wasn't a design constraint, I was just a little lazy :P
10:34:10  <peter1138> :)
10:37:37  <andythenorth> with the houses as destination, you get compelling madness on PAX routes
10:37:40  <Celestar> I'd have to implement an own pathfinder which can return mutliple paths.
10:37:47  <andythenorth> but you also can't do anything until there are decent RVs available :P
10:38:01  <andythenorth> lazy pax won't walk anywhere :(
10:38:18  <andythenorth> and just end up wanting an AI to run your pax for you :P
10:38:26  <Celestar> haha
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10:39:20  <Celestar> peter1138: I|m sure I have the code .. somewhere
10:39:34  <Celestar> but I also know it'd OLD
10:41:55  <peter1138> YACD is great for pax
10:42:01  <peter1138> but less so for freight :(
10:42:12  <Noldo> why is that?
10:42:32  <Eddi|zuHause> freight may benefit from YACDist
10:42:44  <Celestar> who said that pax/mail and freight should have the same system?
10:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. passengers will move to all possible destinations, and are not generated if the destination is not reachable. and freight will always be generated for a reachable destination
10:44:42  <peter1138> i never played with cargodist
10:46:23  <peter1138> conflicts !
10:46:26  <Eddi|zuHause> it's great, but you have less incentive to connect up remote locations
10:48:07  <planetmaker> why should fright only want to go to already connected destinations?
10:48:14  <planetmaker> *freight
10:48:24  <planetmaker> fright might well do :-P
10:50:19  <peter1138> gah, too many changes for me to update it
10:50:28  <peter1138> job for michi_cc ;)
10:55:24  <Celestar> hm.
10:55:38  * Celestar is looking for an appropriate translation for 'Sesselfurzer'
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10:56:51  <appe> is that german?
10:56:59  <appe> i love the long hard german words
10:57:06  <appe> like schmetterling
10:57:24  <appe> or geschwindigkeitbegrenzung
10:57:41  <Eddi|zuHause>
10:59:07  <peter1138> bah, they asked me to choose a mobile phone
10:59:28  <planetmaker> samsung nexus?
10:59:39  <planetmaker> available from tomorrow :-P
10:59:46  <planetmaker> at least in the UK, or so I read
10:59:46  <peter1138> heh
10:59:56  <Celestar> HTC Sensation?
11:00:52  <Celestar> well yeah. "pencil pusher" .. but that's way too weak.
11:01:16  <appe> nexus prime <3.
11:01:29  <peter1138> hmm
11:01:37  <peter1138> doesn't take long for marten to get mopey
11:01:47  <peter1138> about 3 steps
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12:17:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling fs#3569 is a prerequisite for trains driving backwards
12:24:07  <peter1138> hmm
12:24:10  <peter1138> i can't remember
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12:41:22  <Eddi|zuHause> it might be easier if the anchor point was moved to the vehicle position, and the vehicle position was moved to the center of the (shortened) vehicle
12:42:33  <Eddi|zuHause> but you might have problems with odd-length vehicles then, they'd need a fractional position
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13:00:49  <andythenorth> hmm
13:01:01  <andythenorth> anchor points and positions - reminds me of coding flash games
13:02:04  <andythenorth> in flash, each object is a new plane, on which the nested objects exist.
13:02:30  <andythenorth> so you make good friends with localToGlobal and globalToLocal when you want to do collision detection :P
13:12:07  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... Civ5 stopped working :(
13:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it starts up, plays the music, but after the initial dialog i don't get to the main menu
13:15:59  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: how is Civ5?
13:16:10  <Eddi|zuHause> it's ok
13:16:13  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I found Civ 4 pretty great especially with BTS
13:16:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a step backwards in complexity, compared to BTS
13:16:36  <Celestar> is it?
13:17:32  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, shorter tech tree, fewer units, smaller armies
13:17:46  <Celestar> even shorter tech tree? :P
13:17:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the latter enforced by the one-unit-per-tile rule
13:17:59  <Celestar> the one-unit-per-tile rule sounds pretty helpful
13:18:12  <Celestar> because a single battle in Civ4 could take like 5 minutes.
13:18:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yep, gameplay is totally different because of that
13:18:35  <Celestar> how do you protect settlers then? :D
13:18:53  <Eddi|zuHause> well, one fighting and one non-fighting unit
13:19:42  <Eddi|zuHause> the "embarking" feature is quite good. you just move your unit to a water tile, don't need a ship (lose all remaining movement points, though)
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13:31:24  * andythenorth wants to play warcraft 1 or 2 again :|
13:31:28  <andythenorth> open warcraft 1?
13:33:10  <V453000> :D
13:34:05  <peter1138> andythenorth, graphics look too complicated
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14:16:50  <Belugas> ShowMessage('Good '+ SalutationFor(TimeZone) + ' everyone!');
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14:23:07  <Celestar> rofl
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14:32:08  <TomyLobo> when calculating transport distances for revenue, what is counted? industry-industry distance or station-station distance?
14:32:15  <Xaroth> Belugas: that's just being lazy...
14:32:22  <Xaroth> TomyLobo: station-station
14:32:31  <TomyLobo> thanks
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14:41:21  <planetmaker> station-sign to station-sign to be exact
14:44:16  <b_jonas> that's because you're also not paying for transporting the products between the industry and the station. little invisible man are doing that automatically for you.
14:52:02  <Belugas> Xaroth : what do you expect from me, right when sitting down, without my second coffee???
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15:09:46  <Xaroth> Belugas: a cup of tea would be nice..
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15:31:59  <Hawson> 'morning all
15:32:09  <Hawson> (or other appropriate time of day)
15:33:35  <Hawson> Is it possible to use an HTTP proxy for *only* the online content downloads?  I understand that the network game protocol uses something else.
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15:35:24  <Swissfan91> anyone here know about drawing/coding newobjects?
15:36:36  <Yexo> yes, but see the topic: Don't ask to ask, just ask
15:38:02  <Swissfan91> im drawing some ski pistes. obviously they are on snow tiles. If i want them to change as the snowline moves, do I draw them for all of the snow/grass transition tiles and the plain grass tile?
15:38:19  <planetmaker> no
15:38:23  <andythenorth> you might be able to use the ground tile
15:38:26  <planetmaker> you code it properly to use the ground tiles
15:39:47  <Swissfan91> so i place the things that i want on a blue sprite tile, and it takes whatever ground is under it?
15:40:38  <planetmaker> that's feasible, yes
15:41:17  <Rubidium> Hawson: it is not possible to configure a proxy for the online content
15:41:22  <planetmaker> Swissfan91: have a look at the source of opengfx+landscape
15:41:24  <Swissfan91> would it be possible to say, have all of the piste furniture disappear when the tile becomes snow/grass and then grass?
15:41:35  <planetmaker> look at the implementation of the company land
15:41:49  <planetmaker> it's quite advanced, though
15:42:02  <Rubidium> Hawson: unless it's a transparent proxy, but then you don't need to configure it
15:42:08  <frosch123> Swissfan91: yes, you can show a regular path in summer
15:42:16  <planetmaker> can be made much simpler if you just query the tiletype
15:42:30  <Swissfan91> i see, ok. so in terms of what i need to make as a drawer..
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15:43:54  <lugo>
15:44:43  <Swissfan91> perhaps two tiles, both on a blue tile. one with the furniture there for a snow tile, and the other as i would want it to appear with grass underneath?
15:45:19  <frosch123> yes
15:45:23  <Hawson> Rubidium: Thanks.  I was afraid of that.
15:45:34  <Hawson> Is there a "manual" workaround?
15:45:54  <Hawson> I can download files via a proxy myself, but then what should I do with them?
15:46:01  <frosch123> Hawson:
15:46:01  <Swissfan91> ok, cool. thanks guys.
15:46:18  <Hawson> frosch123: yeah, found that. :)
15:46:51  <Yexo> Hawson: extract them and place the tar files in the directory as indicated by readme.txt
15:47:46  <Swissfan91> also - how do I make it so trees appear on my tile? and that they mirror whichever tree set is loaded? Is this a coding technique?
15:47:57  <planetmaker> yes
15:48:06  <Rubidium> Hawson: you need to be able to connect to the openttd server on a custom protocol to get the metadata of the content. That connection is used as fallback.
15:48:12  <planetmaker> select a tree sprite and say that it should be shown
15:48:38  <Rubidium> Hawson: so if you get a list of content tou download, then you should be able to download it over the fallback "protocol"
15:48:52  <Hawson> Accurate documentation.  Novel.
15:48:59  <Swissfan91> ah ok, cool.
15:49:06  <Rubidium> Hawson: so in there is basically no need for support for a http proxy
15:49:13  <Hawson> Rubidium: yeah, for whatever reason, I can get the manifest lists, but not the actual files
15:49:46  <Rubidium> Hawson: in openttd.cfg search for the no_http_content_downloads setting and change that to true
15:49:51  <Hawson> rather, the "files" I get (e.g. OpenGFX.tar) are really HTML dumps from a filter
15:50:25  <Hawson> hmm...interesting
15:50:46  <Hawson> score!
15:50:48  <Hawson> awesome.
15:50:53  <Hawson> Thank you.
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16:28:11  <planetmaker> Are there more landscape replacement NewGRFs other than OpenGFX+Landscape, NoGridLand, Toyland2Mars, Japanese?
16:28:34  <planetmaker> and Alpine?
16:28:58  <TrueBrain> "
16:29:00  <TrueBrain> My name is Kelvin Kerkular I am 31 years old, and my junior sister name is
16:29:01  <TrueBrain> Vivian Kerkular, 28 years old, we are Citizens of Liberia, currently
16:29:03  <TrueBrain> residing in the refugee camp in Ghana. I am contacting you solely on a business
16:29:04  <TrueBrain> related issues.
16:29:06  <TrueBrain> "
16:29:07  <TrueBrain> I love emails
16:29:40  <__ln___> he wants to do business with OpenTTD, i presume
16:30:10  <TrueBrain> would be an epic reply :D
16:37:03  <blathijs> I think it's awesome that they have internet connection in that refugee camp, though
16:37:17  <planetmaker> satellite telephone
16:37:19  <planetmaker> :-P
16:37:34  <TrueBrain> one hell of an expensive data plan
16:37:46  <planetmaker> :-)
16:43:35  <TrueBrain> so .. okay ... now I really want to publish my HG, as I want the CF to compile it ..
16:43:39  <TrueBrain> how to do that .. hmm ..
16:44:16  <planetmaker> The hg or the patch queue?
16:44:29  <TrueBrain> well, the CF can't handle queues, so it has to be committed I guess
16:45:05  <planetmaker> It could pull from a repo with applied mq
16:45:50  <TrueBrain> oeh, nice
16:45:56  <frosch123> TrueBrain: committing is a bidirectional thing
16:46:10  <frosch123> qfinish + qimport
16:48:27  <TrueBrain> its funny .. you can pull from a MQ, but you cannot push :P
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16:51:27  <Swissfan91> anyone think they'll actually use my TARS new objects when finished?
16:51:43  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: hg push --mq?
16:52:18  <Eddi|zuHause> of course, the mq-repo must be separate from the normal repo
16:53:21  <TrueBrain> I want to push the result :)
16:53:24  <TrueBrain> and I fail :(
16:53:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23234 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio_func.h network/network_content.cpp): -Fix [FS#4840]: crash when after downloading content
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17:14:52  <Swissfan91> any requests for mountainside furniture?
17:16:50  <Eddi|zuHause> fields and meadows that are preserved under snow
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17:17:40  <Eddi|zuHause> (including snowy fences/hedges/...)
17:19:31  <planetmaker> that's quite a steep request for a NewGRF, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
17:20:33  <Swissfan91> that is something i really want to. I am saving that for the industry, though.
17:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> what? if you don't need auto-placement, this is a good use case for objects
17:21:03  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you want NewFields :P
17:21:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i know
17:21:13  <andythenorth> frosch123 got stuck with those
17:21:25  <andythenorth> we had an implementation + test newgrf
17:21:29  <andythenorth> but there were....issues
17:21:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that was before we had objects
17:21:36  <Swissfan91> other farms manage it in ECS and/or FIRS don't they?
17:22:23  <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: there's currently only one type of field
17:22:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: industries can only say "plant fields around this"
17:22:45  <andythenorth> we toyed with the idea of industries building objects...
17:23:13  <andythenorth> basically give it some layouts, and have them build on a cb
17:23:19  <Swissfan91> i am completely lost here. sure you could just make an industry which is a barn, and then a meadow field around it similar to the Animal Farm in ECS/
17:23:39  <andythenorth> Swissfan91: I / we hijacked your question ;)
17:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause> ideally you would have multiple kinds of fields. farms may plant "wheat" fields, forests may plant "tree" fields, dairy farms may plant "cow meadows"
17:24:25  <Swissfan91> oh i see, i never knew there was only one type allowed.
17:25:24  <Eddi|zuHause> power stations could plant power lines as fields
17:25:41  <frosch123> i wrote a spec for that last week :p
17:25:49  <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho
17:28:10  <Swissfan91> ah well, that may have thrown a spanner in the works of my industry set then.
17:28:18  <Swissfan91> any other requests for mountainside furniture?
17:29:05  <frosch123> mines
17:29:17  <frosch123> (old deserted mines)
17:30:10  <andythenorth> frosch123: proof of spec?
17:30:12  <andythenorth> :P
17:30:42  <Swissfan91> i was thinking more alpine - for skiing primarily - but i will add that to my overall list.
17:31:13  <frosch123> <- i was looking into which cb could get new results since grfv8
17:31:41  <frosch123> but drawing foundations and autoslope may get new results as well
17:32:13  <andythenorth> frosch123: effect 1 has some interesting possibilities...
17:32:39  <andythenorth> would any control be needed over *where* new objects are built ?
17:33:13  <frosch123> i would expect newobjects to have placement restrictions, which do not allow many possitions anyway :p
17:33:27  * andythenorth would rather not over-complicate it
17:33:47  <frosch123> so, there is no use in specifying exact positions, and north/south/west/east does not sound useful
17:33:54  <frosch123> max distance might be possible
17:34:11  <frosch123> or even needed
17:34:39  <andythenorth> radius, not manhattan :P
17:34:54  <andythenorth> I can imagine cases for N/S/E/W - to match specific graphics
17:35:01  <andythenorth> I wouldn't be the one wanting to use them
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17:37:11  <Swissfan91> talking of foundations - how do I go about drawing a building that is say, 2x2, and has two flat squares and two slopes squares?
17:38:46  <andythenorth> frosch123: nice spec :)
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17:53:16  <planetmaker> <-- someone has patience?
17:53:33  <planetmaker> I must not answer, it would be rude ;-)
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18:15:06  <Wolf01> evenink
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18:42:57  <LordAro> evening
18:43:45  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23235 /trunk/src/lang/serbian.txt:
18:43:45  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:43:45  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: serbian - 32 changes by etran
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18:57:43  <Hawson>  /win 2
18:57:55  <murr4y>  /fail 2
19:00:20  <Rubidium> /whythespace?
19:02:21  * Hawson shrugs
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19:13:43  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is it appropriate to publish your cargo scheme proposals to the newgrf wiki yet?
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20:22:30  <appe> ah, the swedish grf sets and state808.
20:22:53  <appe> a very, very intriguing combination
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20:25:02  <planetmaker> state808?
20:25:03  <andythenorth> state808?
20:25:06  <andythenorth> or 808 State?
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20:25:33  <planetmaker> appe: then make sure to use the newest edition of the rails ;-)
20:26:48  <appe> i was so into the game i didnt realize i wrote state808
20:27:24  <appe> if a swedish x2 train used pacific 202 as onboard traveling music, i would die of joy.
20:27:28  <appe> planetmaker: oh, oh!
20:27:35  <appe> planetmaker: i think i do, actually.
20:27:53  <planetmaker> 0.7.2? :-)
20:28:00  <planetmaker> It's only a few hours old :-P
20:28:21  <appe> ah, heh
20:28:35  <appe> where does one find it?
20:28:44  <planetmaker> banananananananananananananananananssssss
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20:36:46  <chill> TrueBrain: Thank you very much for taking the time setting up the compile farm, everything works perfectly now.
20:36:48  *** mahmoud [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:37:04  <TrueBrain> np; happy to see the CF put to good use :)
20:37:16  <chill> Also, hi all.
20:38:00  <chill> I will make good use of it anyway :)
20:38:07  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23236 /trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23141): Construction of objects was always rejected.
20:39:58  <chill> Well I have some announcements to make now. See you later all.
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21:06:10  <Swissfan91> to any foru moderator - i was thinking that a thread whereby people/sets can request that they need a drawer or coder, and drawers and coders can offer themselves and promote their skills. does this exist already?
21:08:01  <andythenorth> graphics forum
21:08:21  <andythenorth> graphics development sub forum
21:08:41  <andythenorth> you create a thread there
21:08:47  <andythenorth> for your set ;)
21:09:28  <Eddi|zuHause> put "artist needed"/"coder needed" into the thread title
21:09:41  <andythenorth> yup
21:10:23  <Swissfan91> my set already has one :P i meant a general one for everyone.
21:10:39  *** planetmaker is now known as planet-of-frogs
21:10:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that's needed
21:11:04  <Eddi|zuHause> the frogs have invaded?
21:11:41  <Swissfan91> because, for my set, i need a coder for example. and aside from learning it myself, i dont really know what coders are out there. There could be a newobjects coder sat there doing nothing, not knowing of any sets that need a coder.
21:11:45  <andythenorth> Swissfan91: not needed, won't work :)
21:11:55  <andythenorth> there are almost no coders
21:11:58  <andythenorth> as far as we know...
21:12:06  *** planet-of-frogs is now known as planetmaker
21:13:17  <Swissfan91> no coders in general? or none for newobjects?
21:13:36  <andythenorth> 'few coders' would be more accurate
21:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause> "numbers of coders * development time per coder / number of projects" converges towards 0
21:14:30  <Swissfan91> ahhh :(
21:15:06  <Swissfan91> no lovely ski pistes for anyone to ski on this xmas then!
21:16:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: you could try to reuse code from OpenGFX+Landscape for the ski pists
21:16:26  <Yexo> Swissfan91: finding a coder is usually a lot easier if you produce graphics first and post them in your topic
21:16:39  <Swissfan91> i have been, Yexo.
21:16:47  <Swissfan91> a tiny amount, i admit.
21:17:14  <planetmaker> just keep going :-)
21:17:33  <Swissfan91> i am quite worried that Yexo is seeing a thread with no graphics in though? :S
21:17:43  <Yexo> no, I'm seeing them
21:17:53  <Yexo> I didn't look at the forum at all before making my previous remark ;)
21:18:04  <Swissfan91> ahhh, well. humble pie for one. :D
21:18:16  <Yexo> the last graphics file you posted doesn't have the correct format though. The blue needs to be rectangular, like in the one before
21:18:51  <Swissfan91> even though the tile is blue, it needs a blue rectangle around?
21:19:46  <planetmaker> Swissfan91: the lift doesn't need the tile below
21:19:52  <planetmaker> it just needs a normal rectangle around
21:19:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: yes, otherwise you'd draw white stuff
21:20:02  <planetmaker> it's then the coder's responsibility to place it properly
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21:20:45  <Swissfan91> so i should be drawing straight onto the snow tile? I thought i was told that if you want the sprite to be placed on whatever the ground tile, you use a blue base.
21:20:52  <andythenorth> Swissfan91: 1 min
21:21:06  <LordAro> evening
21:21:12  <andythenorth> you can look at some FIRS spritesheets, it might help you figure it out...
21:21:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: no, you don't need to paint it on the snow tile. just flood-fill everything that is white with blue
21:21:32  <andythenorth> Swissfan91:
21:21:57  <andythenorth> use the 'raw' view on a file to see the png
21:21:59  <andythenorth> e.g.
21:22:45  <andythenorth> Swissfan91:
21:23:18  <andythenorth>
21:24:50  <Swissfan91> i've edited my post. like that?
21:24:54  <Swissfan91> just made neater, obviously.
21:25:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, basically
21:25:39  <Swissfan91> potentially seperated out as in the links from Andy.
21:26:22  <Eddi|zuHause> the separation is actually unnecessary, since everything between the sprites is ignored
21:26:41  <andythenorth> but it's much easier to code with a regular grid
21:26:43  <Eddi|zuHause> but it might make templating easier if you have the separation
21:26:56  <Swissfan91> ah yes, ok.
21:27:12  <Yexo> Swissfan91: it's easier to code when there is white between the different tiles
21:27:15  <andythenorth> and I would find it odd without the white dividers, they make it easier to code x, y, height, width for action 1
21:27:25  <Yexo> since you can clearly see where a rectangle begins / ends
21:27:33  <andythenorth> Swissfan91: I had to ask all these questions too when I started coding :)
21:27:40  <planetmaker> yes. I'd not enjoy coding w/o separator
21:27:42  <Swissfan91> are the blue boxes that you have cropped yours into just random, or are they set sizes?
21:27:57  <andythenorth> despite I know how to use the same chroma key blue in motion graphics for TV, I never saw sprite sheets until TTD ;)
21:28:05  <planetmaker> width = tile width. Height = fits most
21:28:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: they are fixed sizes
21:28:27  <planetmaker> or height = ground tile height
21:28:28  <andythenorth> Swissfan91: for FIRS vary in size, but the separation between them is constant on the x axis
21:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: so you can use the same xsize/ysize and xrel/yrel values
21:28:59  <planetmaker> it doesn't hurt to use a (usually) too hight box
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21:29:10  <planetmaker> It's always a very good idea to use a box exactly a tile wide
21:29:21  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: wrt YACS - now we await comment from MB and others...
21:29:29  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes
21:29:35  <planetmaker> (and draw the stuff such that the alignment wrt a tile placed in the very bottom would fit)
21:29:46  <andythenorth> I propose Eddi|zuHause as benevolent dictator of YACS
21:30:12  <Swissfan91> ahh ok, i think i'm getting there.
21:30:34  <planetmaker> andythenorth: first we get the properties. then we can adjust the wiki. My 2ct
21:30:41  <andythenorth> fine by me
21:31:00  <planetmaker> and if we don't rush it, it'll all be fine by then :-)
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21:31:32  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if we treat YACS as a spec that newgrfs comply with or don't, we can ignore hazardous.  Say it's out of spec for YACS compliance.  Leave it in the wiki.
21:35:40  <appe>
21:35:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that's a bad idea
21:35:50  <appe> (it's audio, and it's mine)
21:36:11  <appe> oh, this is not #ambient.
21:36:14  <appe> please ignore
21:36:48  <Swissfan91> edited again >
21:36:52  <Swissfan91> is that correct now?
21:38:26  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it can't be removed because we don't know who's using it?
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21:42:39  <Swissfan91> andy?
21:42:59  <andythenorth> hazardous is a crappy class for refitting with, it's silly.  Might be useful for doing clever vehicle things, like speed tricks
21:43:13  <andythenorth> Swissfan91: looks fine to me
21:44:25  <Swissfan91> thanks for your help.
21:44:32  <andythenorth> good luck :)
21:44:43  <andythenorth> you should learn to code next
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21:49:00  <Swissfan91> give me a chance :P maybe next year in my gap year.
21:49:52  <andythenorth> it's only 1s and 0s :P
21:50:04  <andythenorth> and some other numbers
21:50:09  <andythenorth> and the letters a-f
21:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause>
21:51:00  <Swissfan91> well.. if its that simple.. we should all be coders :D
21:51:12  <Swissfan91> i have found out the drawing is just a bunch of pixels
21:51:24  <Swissfan91> creating noise on the other hand... oh dear.
21:51:46  <andythenorth> Swissfan91: pop quiz, which direction does the light come from? :)
21:52:13  <Swissfan91> top right?
21:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause> light direction - the bane of andythenorth's apprentice years
21:52:29  <andythenorth> Swissfan91: whack whack oops
21:52:36  <andythenorth> bottom right, high up
21:52:46  <andythenorth> there you go, I saved you some pain ;)
21:52:56  <Swissfan91> now i'm confused!
21:52:58  <Rubidium> andythenorth: whichever direction Simon Foster fancied at time of drawing?
21:53:09  <andythenorth> Rubidium: that is true
21:53:18  <andythenorth> if you take the mode, you'll get bottom right
21:53:40  <andythenorth> if you look closely at the vehicles, he clearly constructed a 3-light film lighting rig for each one :P
21:53:45  <andythenorth> which follows each vehicle around
21:54:00  <andythenorth> the default RVs are lit by Lies!
21:54:07  <Swissfan91> so the shading on this ( is wrong?
21:54:59  <andythenorth> not really, that one's ok
21:55:11  <andythenorth> there should be heavy shadow under the overhang of the roof though
21:56:10  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be more noise :p
21:56:27  <andythenorth>
21:56:27  <Swissfan91> i toyed around with shadow. but then i thought, surely the big building should make a shadow on the small building?
21:56:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and the wires look weird
21:56:49  <Swissfan91> don't mention the N word Eddi!
21:57:12  <andythenorth> noise is easy
21:57:16  <Swissfan91> the wires are weird, they're just put there for show.
21:57:54  <Swissfan91> obviously not much of a show for some people :P
21:57:56  <andythenorth> Swissfan91: the shadows in ottd are not at all consistent.  Doesn't matter
21:58:04  <andythenorth> when it looks good to draw shadow, draw shadow
21:58:10  <andythenorth> when it doesn't, don't :)
21:58:43  <Swissfan91> ah, ok. any tips on drawing noise then?
21:58:52  <andythenorth> use three closely related shades
21:58:58  <andythenorth> not more
21:59:32  <andythenorth> look at the roofs on these buildings ;)
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22:00:19  <Swissfan91> three closely related shades from the OTTD palette?
22:00:25  <Eddi|zuHause> you have a dead pixel in your image :p
22:01:01  <andythenorth> moi?
22:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you :)
22:01:15  <andythenorth> meh
22:01:34  <andythenorth> where's that?
22:02:37  <Eddi|zuHause> in the white area below the 7th sprite
22:02:47  <andythenorth> oh yes
22:03:03  <andythenorth> pixels have to die somewhere I guess
22:03:34  <Eddi|zuHause> ever since i had dead insects in my screen, i am really sensitive to odd pixels...
22:03:44  <Swissfan91> out of interest, why have you chopped the buildings up? To keep them in the 1x1 and 1x2 limit?
22:03:51  <andythenorth> yup
22:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause> VLC is driving me crazy, because it turns the mouse cursor into a black pixel
22:04:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: you cannot draw left or right of a tile
22:04:22  <andythenorth> Swissfan91: industries don't have a limit, but the graphics for each tile need to be sliced to fit the tile
22:04:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: only above
22:04:29  <andythenorth> there are many ways to do it
22:06:01  <Eddi|zuHause> this is especially problematic if you want to draw wires between two pylons that are 2 tiles apart (to allow building infrastructure inbetween)
22:06:29  <Swissfan91> ah right, ok. eventually, i would like a 2x2 building that is on two flat tiles and two slopes tiles. is this a problem for both coder and drawer?
22:06:38  *** welshdragon [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
22:06:54  <Eddi|zuHause> no. as long as the tiles are continguous, it's no problem
22:07:08  <Eddi|zuHause> the slicing can even be done automatically
22:07:14  <Eddi|zuHause> just provide one giant sprite
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22:07:26  <Swissfan91> how do sloped tiles work? in the sense that do you draw your own foundations, does the game do it?
22:07:40  <Eddi|zuHause> the game draws the foundation if you tell it to
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22:07:41  <andythenorth> game can provide foundations from the base set graphics
22:07:48  <andythenorth> they vary by climate
22:09:07  <Swissfan91> i see.
22:09:17  <Swissfan91> brb
22:09:27  <andythenorth> you can also provide your own foundations, but it's a pain
22:09:30  * andythenorth -> bed
22:12:01  <planetmaker> night, andythenorth
22:12:32  <andythenorth> bye
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23:01:27  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23237 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix: ignore special characters, such as the train "character", when determining a fallback font
23:08:13  <planetmaker> g'night
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23:12:06  <Wolf01> 'night
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