Log for #openttd on 22nd November 2011:
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02:38:08  <plantain> suggestions for mods / newgrfs etc to mix up multiplayer games a bit?
02:41:00  <Eddi|zuHause> YACD/YAIM/IS/NoGo/...
02:42:05  <Eddi|zuHause> (damn i think i've been around TB too long, i'm becoming evil _Ì)
02:42:09  <Eddi|zuHause> :p
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03:02:43  <Elukka> plantain: NARS2 or something for trains with higher running costs to provide a little bit of challenge near the start (or 2cc to make it much harder), long vehicles 4 to make road vehicles viable
03:02:47  <Elukka> FIRS for new industries too
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04:58:42  <z-MaTRiX> :)
04:58:48  <z-MaTRiX> i see bits and masks everywhere
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07:01:43  <appe> morning
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07:16:19  <planetmaker> moin
07:34:18  <z-MaTRiX> hi
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07:37:08  <Celestar> hail
07:38:16  <V453000> morning sir
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08:05:12  <andythenorth> DorpsGek: r23291
08:07:10  <planetmaker> @openttd r23291
08:07:16  <planetmaker> @openttd commit r23291
08:07:17  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Invalid arguments for _commit.
08:07:23  <planetmaker> @openttd commit 23291
08:07:23  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Commit by michi_cc :: r23291 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2011-11-21 22:39:59 UTC)
08:07:24  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: -Feature: [NewGRF] Properties to always include/exclude cargo types from the refit mask. (peter1138)
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08:07:32  <planetmaker> there we go
08:10:09  <andythenorth>  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o
08:10:10  <andythenorth>  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o
08:10:16  <andythenorth> \o/ o  o  o  o  o  o  o
08:10:17  <andythenorth>  o \o/ o  o  o  o  o  o
08:10:17  <andythenorth>  o  o \o/ o  o  o  o  o
08:10:17  <andythenorth>  o  o  o \o/ o  o  o  o
08:10:18  <andythenorth>  o  o  o  o \o/ o  o  o
08:10:18  <andythenorth>  o  o  o  o  o \o/ o  o
08:10:18  <andythenorth>  o  o  o  o  o  o \o/ o
08:10:20  <andythenorth>  o  o  o  o  o  o  o \o/
08:10:20  <andythenorth>  o  o  o  o  o  o  o  o
08:10:22  <andythenorth> :P
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08:18:40  <Celestar> wtf :P
08:18:59  <andythenorth> [mexican wave]
08:19:00  <Celestar> @openttd commit 2
08:19:00  <DorpsGek> Celestar: Commit by darkvater :: r2 /trunk (9 files) (2004-08-10 14:14:00 UTC)
08:19:01  <DorpsGek> Celestar: -Fix [993829] UDP Fixes (lucaspiller)
08:19:02  <DorpsGek> Celestar: -Fix change 255/0xFF to OWNER_SPECTATOR for
08:19:03  <DorpsGek> Celestar: spectator stuff (TrueLight)
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08:24:44  <dihedral> greetings
08:25:16  <dihedral> andythenorth, reading too much 9gag? :-P
08:26:01  <andythenorth> no :)  Maybe I should go there now...
08:38:38  <Elukka> andy: i totally asked you this before and i think you answered but i forget. was it YACD's or FIRS' fault that you can't disable cargo destinations for industries?
08:39:07  <andythenorth> I don't know :)
08:39:10  <andythenorth> what's the issue?
08:40:17  <Elukka> well, you can't disable cargo destinations for industries
08:40:38  <Elukka> there's an option for that but it doesn't seem to work
08:40:47  <Elukka> ...i should probably just check whether it works for default industries
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09:03:31  <andythenorth> Elukka: it's nothing to do with FIRS
09:03:46  <Elukka> alright
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09:35:46  <andythenorth> can grf v8 deprecate prop 1D for trains? (and equiv. for other vehicles)
09:36:07  <andythenorth> I know that grf v8 is not the magic bullet, but what case is there for that prop remaining?
09:37:29  <andythenorth> prop 1D being bit mask of cargo types available for refitting - for those who don't have the wiki in their head
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09:39:57  <planetmaker> it could, yes.
09:40:12  * andythenorth is being trolled by MB
09:40:31  <peter1138> hmm?
09:40:38  <andythenorth>
09:40:49  <andythenorth> he knows well why we're doing it, he's exhibiting his humour :)
09:44:47  <peter1138> the proposal was there for a week without any comment other than "prop 40/41, are you mad!?!?!?!"
09:45:34  <planetmaker> it was certainly stated in a private mail to Joseph somewhere why your solution now is bad ;-)
09:45:46  <planetmaker> Stupid you, that you didn't see it nor take it into account
09:46:02  <andythenorth> I think he's actually being funny
09:46:13  <andythenorth> the more I see MB, the more I think he has a wry sense of humour
09:46:27  <andythenorth> also I have pms with him now and then
09:47:58  <peter1138> time of the month eh?
09:48:43  <planetmaker> iew
09:49:03  <peter1138> so what phone does marten have?
09:49:49  <andythenorth> meh
09:49:50  <andythenorth> phones
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09:51:39  <peter1138> his hand looks awkward holding it :p
09:52:07  * andythenorth has a GPS device and YouTube client that also claims to be a phone
09:52:37  <andythenorth> but as it can't make or receive calls, that might be a dubious claim
09:53:06  <andythenorth> still...I can upgrade to the 4S version - main feature: 'now works a bit like a phone, more of the time'
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11:00:42  <planetmaker> I like today's xkcd...
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11:08:15  <V453000> hello, how does the auto-refit work?
11:09:23  <appe> planetmaker: indeed. i was rather blown away by the cost of a b-2 bomber.
11:10:56  <planetmaker> V453000, it needs explicit newgrf support
11:11:19  <planetmaker> only known newgrf to me: nightly of ogfx+trains ;-)
11:11:47  <V453000> oh
11:14:34  <V453000> interesting...
11:15:26  <planetmaker> quite :-)
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11:15:39  <TrueBrain> still, what does it do? :)
11:15:50  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, refit in stations as part of orders
11:16:12  <planetmaker> i.e. allows to say goto A and load goods, then goto B and load food. restart
11:16:16  <TrueBrain> refit to what? I assumed the 'auto' suggested it does it automatically?
11:16:20  <planetmaker> thus two-way transfer w/o depot visit
11:16:29  <TrueBrain> ah; that is nice :)
11:16:31  <planetmaker> also 'available cargo' works
11:16:39  <TrueBrain> but then why the name 'auto'?
11:16:41  <planetmaker> where 'available' is 'most common'
11:16:47  <planetmaker> in that station
11:17:00  <planetmaker> i.e. it automatically refits to 3 goods ans 2 food wagons
11:17:05  <planetmaker> when then the sation is empty
11:17:14  <planetmaker> thus 'auto' works, too. Indeed
11:17:36  <planetmaker> which is the real awesome thing actually :-)
11:17:47  <planetmaker> though both separately are awesome already :-)
11:17:55  <TrueBrain> so, to summarize what you try to say: it can refit to the amount available in the station?
11:18:02  <planetmaker> yes
11:18:12  <planetmaker> as long as a refit is possible, of course
11:18:20  <planetmaker> i.e. a tanker won't refit to vehicles ;-)
11:18:28  <planetmaker> unless that newgrf is crazy ;-)
11:19:36  <planetmaker> I actually ponder to include one "universal" wagon. Which allows refit in stations for no vehicle change and refit to anything at a cost in depots. Which would simulate switching wagons in depots
11:19:42  <planetmaker> without user intervention
11:19:46  <planetmaker> just by orders
11:19:48  <TrueBrain> that indeed is a nice feature. The 'autorefit' raised some questions :P
11:21:04  <planetmaker> :-)
11:21:14  <planetmaker> Hm... the universal wagon. I guess, I have a toy to create now ;-)
11:21:32  <TrueBrain> and I think I am going to make a script profile tool of some kind
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11:46:08  <Celestar> wtb [bed]
11:46:18  <TrueBrain> download minecraft
11:46:24  <TrueBrain> get some whool
11:46:26  <TrueBrain> build one
11:47:00  <Celestar> lol
11:47:04  <Celestar> TMWFTLB
11:47:36  <TrueBrain> well ....... YPT
11:51:43  <Celestar> rofl
11:55:45  <peter1138> desura crashed. good start...
11:56:20  <peter1138> heh
11:56:33  <peter1138> Before playing you need to agree to the license terms and conditions.
11:56:44  <peter1138> GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
11:56:45  <peter1138> ...
11:56:53  <peter1138> yeah, i can probably manage that
11:57:04  <TrueBrain> depends on the version :P :P
11:57:33  <peter1138> of course, it doesn't work...
12:03:58  <Eddi|zuHause> the trick about the GPL is you don't have to agree to anything if you're just playing
12:14:01  <peter1138> exactly
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12:18:33  <peter1138> rules of sodoku: if you're stuck with multiple routes and you find a choice that lets progress quickly, it's most likely the wrong choice
12:19:44  <planetmaker> :-)
12:30:49  <Xaroth> rules of sudoku: google goggles can solve it for you, saving both time and annorance :P
12:33:00  <planetmaker> hehe
12:33:07  <peter1138> maybe if i had an android phone
12:33:10  <peter1138> or an iphone
12:33:11  <planetmaker> Good that OpenTTD has also AIs. They can play the game for you, too ;-)
12:33:20  <planetmaker> No annoying self-building anymore ;-)
12:33:21  <andythenorth> iDon'tPhone you mean
12:33:22  <peter1138> yeah :)
12:33:40  <peter1138> andythenorth, sounds like yours is faulty
12:33:53  <andythenorth> only the same as all the others
12:33:55  <peter1138> sure it's not an ipod? :p
12:34:04  <andythenorth> the fault is that I want to hold it when I'm talking to people
12:34:08  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: sounds like a plan :D
12:34:24  <andythenorth> put it on speaker phone, on the table, it's genius :P
12:34:59  <peter1138> heh
12:35:09  <peter1138> didn't they "fix" that by changing the way the bars are displayed?
12:35:45  <andythenorth> they fixed it with the 4s
12:46:50  <peter1138> orudge, you're in trouble with MB ;)
12:48:33  <Celestar> what?
12:48:37  <Celestar> oh.
12:48:42  <Celestar> has DBSet been released?
12:52:48  <peter1138> unlikely
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12:53:50  <orudge> peter1138: oh, has he posted? I figured he would eventually
13:04:44  <Celestar> link?!
13:06:24  <Celestar> my workorder to supply me with two more multi-plugs has been set to "in progress" 24 hours ago.
13:06:54  <Celestar> I guess someone should send an S&R team to the storage rooms.
13:07:23  <planetmaker> you really work at a weired company, Celestar
13:07:44  <Celestar> planetmaker: I'm a consultant. my job is attempt to make weird companies ... less weird :P
13:08:07  <planetmaker> ah, those ;-)
13:08:20  <Celestar> thing is  .. they rarely listen ...
13:08:27  <andythenorth> Celestar: do a startup :P
13:08:34  <andythenorth> less bullshit in startups
13:08:41  <andythenorth> I've been doing a startup for 10 years
13:08:44  <Celestar> yeah.
13:08:50  <andythenorth> you'd think it might be done by now :P
13:08:55  <Celestar> my employed at a "startup"..
13:08:56  <planetmaker> :-D
13:09:09  <Celestar> well we just celebrated the 10th anniversary.
13:15:35  <Xaroth> Celestar: might want to send a S&R team for the S&R team as well :o
13:16:16  <Celestar> Xaroth: yeah. have them on standby.
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13:24:00  <Celestar> yuck.
13:24:05  <Celestar> the loo is backing up. again.
13:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> issue a work order!
13:25:17  <planetmaker> not sure a backup of what's in there is really desirable
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13:25:59  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I did. I do about every other week.
13:26:09  * andythenorth ponders
13:26:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: issue more!
13:26:18  <andythenorth> the game could use some kind of piping system
13:26:25  <andythenorth> issue less stuff
13:26:29  <andythenorth> then there's no backup
13:26:38  <Celestar> one might think that in the age of nuclear powered vessels and interplanetary probes, one MIGHT be able to find someone to fix a stupid loo.
13:26:41  <andythenorth> if the game had pipelines...
13:26:52  <andythenorth> town -> waste plant -> fmsp
13:28:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: all loo-fixing-jobs have been outsourced, so the knowledge has vanished
13:28:59  <planetmaker> so we need new houses, andythenorth ? :-)
13:29:07  <planetmaker> a firs houses set?
13:29:12  <andythenorth> screw that :P
13:29:19  <planetmaker> boo!
13:29:51  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if i want to play simcity, i'll do that outside openttd
13:30:13  <planetmaker> then the nogo is not for you :-P
13:30:40  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: maybe not this script, indeed :)
13:34:21  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: how much knowledge is required for such a menial task?
13:34:36  <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know... :)
13:38:29  <Noldo> is this loo fixing somehow analogious to telephone cleaning mentioned in the hichhikers guide or one of the sequels
13:38:55  * peter1138 ponders working on EZ-take2
13:39:11  <Celestar> Noldo: apparently
13:39:43  <planetmaker> go, peter, go! ;-)
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13:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause> seriously, ask yourself who in your extended friend/family circle deals in "Gas, Wasser, Scheiße"?
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13:53:00  * andythenorth does ponder why pipelines etc are not considered transportation
14:00:04  <planetmaker> andythenorth, they are.
14:00:18  <planetmaker> But the fun factor has not quite been established: build and make money. done
14:00:24  <planetmaker> even more boring than planes ;-)
14:00:38  <planetmaker> but other than that, there's no real argument agains
14:00:52  <planetmaker> actually: you could make a railtype. Give me the graphics and I might code you that ;-)
14:01:01  <Pinkbeast> This hasn't stopped Simutrans doing electricity supply on a similar basis...
14:01:31  <andythenorth> planetmaker: rule out any assumption that they can be built underground
14:01:38  <andythenorth> above ground only (or in expensive tunnels)
14:01:51  <andythenorth> requires bridging to cross other routes
14:02:02  <andythenorth> limit capacity to n units per tick
14:02:20  <andythenorth> require booster stations to go up slope
14:02:37  <andythenorth> booster stations occupy n tiles depending on power required
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14:03:07  <andythenorth> do it right, and it adds interesting complexity to gameplay, rather than 'fire and forget' transport
14:03:22  <planetmaker> possibly
14:03:28  <andythenorth> also done right, it might be extensible beyond pipelines, to ropeways and such
14:03:30  <Pinkbeast> If the capital and maintenance costs were (a bit artificially) high you'd have to get producer production levels up before it would be worthwhile.
14:03:55  <andythenorth> also artificial limitation: pipelines can only route a -> b
14:04:01  <planetmaker> might make sense with the infra maintenance patch ;-)
14:04:02  <andythenorth> but you can build transers
14:04:05  <andythenorth> +f
14:04:13  <Pinkbeast> So then it wouldn't just be a no-brainer "here is my moneymaker at the start of the game" like vanilla OTTD coal transport
14:04:20  <andythenorth> so you might route a -> b, then b->c and b->d
14:04:49  <planetmaker> sounds like lot of work, though :-)
14:04:53  <planetmaker> to implement
14:04:55  <planetmaker> and to draw
14:04:59  <andythenorth> implement yes
14:05:02  <andythenorth> draw...maybe
14:05:05  <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> actually: you could make a railtype. Give me the graphics and I might code you that ;-) <-- imho pipelines are easier "hacked" as roadtypes
14:05:22  <peter1138> you better implement roadtypes :)
14:05:29  <planetmaker> yes, that's true, Eddi|zuHause
14:05:31  <andythenorth> meh
14:05:35  <andythenorth> pipetypes
14:05:49  * andythenorth suspects it's a project of immense proportions :P
14:05:49  <planetmaker> though 1-tile trains might do the job just fine. with invisible signals. But they'd then have to be per railtype
14:06:12  <Pinkbeast> Surely if pipelines are to exist they should be a real thing and not one of these dreadful hacks on some other transport types?
14:06:27  <andythenorth> 'continuous transport'
14:06:31  <Pinkbeast> ... especially with the 16 railtype limit looking a bit stretched in the NuTracks world
14:06:34  <peter1138> beer pipeline
14:06:58  <planetmaker> beer pipeline sounds good. I'll need a tea one, too, please
14:07:03  <andythenorth>
14:07:06  <planetmaker> Good concept for a fun toyland scenario
14:07:13  <peter1138> andythenorth, exactly
14:07:36  <Pinkbeast> continuous transport> cable cars for passengers fit that as well
14:08:18  <andythenorth> also moving walkways
14:08:20  <andythenorth> like in the future
14:08:23  <andythenorth> hmm
14:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: there are several different kinds of cable cars. but potentially that could be one of the pipeline-types (especially if one of the features is no crossings)
14:08:32  <andythenorth> no crossings
14:08:41  <andythenorth> or at least, no crossings at same height level
14:08:45  <Eddi|zuHause> no switches i mean by that
14:08:47  <andythenorth> bridge over / tunnel under
14:08:53  <andythenorth> and no switches
14:08:57  <andythenorth> transfers only
14:09:22  <Eddi|zuHause> could be useful to connect to some remote tourist center
14:09:43  <planetmaker> pipeline for tourists? ;-)
14:10:14  <Eddi|zuHause> "miscellaneous transport types"
14:10:17  <andythenorth> nobody mention SG
14:10:22  <andythenorth> it's everywhere recently :P
14:10:30  <Eddi|zuHause> what's SG?
14:10:48  <Pinkbeast> I think one with small gondolas leaving often, like the kind you get in ski resorts, is definitely "continuous transport", not modelling individual gondolas at all.
14:11:16  <Pinkbeast> And if it runs at full speed irrespective of terrain it becomes viable in very hilly areas, which is what you wanted.
14:12:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: yes, but there's also the model that has two gondolas, when one is going up the other is going down
14:12:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: those can even be used for freight
14:12:31  <Pinkbeast> Eddi> Indeed.
14:13:13  <Pinkbeast> I think there's an argument that horse-drawn wagonways would be better implemented as "continuous transport" than 500 EGRVTS horse trams, too. :-/
14:13:26  <Eddi|zuHause> there's some village in austria that's only reachable by cable car. no road access
14:13:38  <Pinkbeast> I'm moving.
14:13:54  <Eddi|zuHause> they ship entire trucks by cable car
14:14:19  <Pinkbeast> Sure, but one thing at a time, I'm just thinking of things that _are_ continuous transport. :-)
14:19:12  <Belugas> hello
14:19:19  <andythenorth> moo
14:20:17  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, vehicles in vehicles eh?
14:20:55  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... not in this instance...
14:26:29  <andythenorth> pipelines in trucks in cable cars on boats
14:26:33  <andythenorth> all on a plane
14:27:10  <Terkhen> hello
14:27:22  <Eddi|zuHause> elephants on a turtle
14:30:00  <andythenorth> in space
14:30:06  <V453000> with beer
14:30:40  <peter1138> hmm, how often would great a'tuin break down?
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15:04:52  <Elukka>
15:04:55  <Elukka> anno has a case of the pretties
15:05:56  <andythenorth> gosh
15:06:02  <andythenorth> whoever drew those pixels is very good
15:06:11  <andythenorth> how many angles do they have to do? :P
15:06:46  <Elukka> all the angles
15:06:48  <Elukka> all of them
15:07:09  <andythenorth> I suspect they might rely on a man called Ray
15:07:13  <andythenorth> to do their painting
15:07:44  <Elukka> hardware isn't actually powerful enough to do raytracing in games yet :P
15:09:49  <andythenorth> what do they use?  scanline rendering?
15:10:13  <andythenorth> most of my CGI skills date back to 'make model, hit render, make lots of tea'
15:10:25  <andythenorth> 'go to sleep, make breakfast, more tea, look at screen, curse'
15:10:30  <peter1138> anno?
15:11:07  <planetmaker> game series
15:11:17  <peter1138> hm
15:11:43  <planetmaker>
15:12:03  <peter1138> looks pretty good
15:12:07  <peter1138> and it's 5 years old... wtf?
15:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause> if you do 3D stuff properly, you can just prepare your game settings to be yanked up in 5 years
15:13:59  <peter1138> when do we get that engine? hehe
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15:20:57  <Elukka> the one the screenshot is from is anno 1404
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15:22:35  <Elukka> andy: i'm not sure of the particulars
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15:24:47  <Elukka> but raytracing is still a thing that takes at the very least several seconds
15:25:05  <Elukka> which is obviously wildly inadequate when you need a new frame 30-60 times a second
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15:49:01  <Eddi|zuHause> man... xkcd made me listen to a song :p
15:49:32  <TrueBrain> I love Windows .... "Offline Availability: Not Available". "Offline Status: Online"
15:49:34  <TrueBrain> wtf?
15:49:48  <TrueBrain> confusion all there ...
15:50:25  <peter1138> ah, 1404... still 2 years old :)
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16:35:55  <peter1138> hmm, ez-take2 patch is smaller
16:35:55  <peter1138> but
16:36:02  <peter1138> doesn't work right yet :p
16:45:40  <Ammler> does it support the existing ez-sprites?
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16:47:35  <peter1138> no
16:48:21  <peter1138> currently it supports fuckeduprendering™
16:48:53  <Eddi|zuHause> tried the debug blitter yet? :)
16:49:53  <peter1138> it's not a blitter issue :p
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16:53:51  <z-MaTRiX> hi
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17:16:51  <XeryusTC> Xaroth: anyway :P
17:17:11  <Xaroth> :) ta
17:25:30  <peter1138> signals every other tile *cringe*
17:29:34  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: where was your patch for the new refit properties for nml?
17:29:46  <Eddi|zuHause> err... one moment
17:30:26  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:30:34  <Yexo> thanks
17:30:41  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:30:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the last one first
17:32:39  <andythenorth> there was a nforenum patch as well...
17:32:45  <andythenorth> that I tested as apparently working
17:32:46  <peter1138> needs to be a bit more complex now
17:32:56  <Yexo> andythenorth: I've just pushed that one
17:33:02  <andythenorth> :)
17:33:04  <Yexo> after fixing it to use the new property numbers
17:33:32  <peter1138> yay for hysterical raisins :S
17:33:38  * andythenorth suspects HEQS might be going nightly only soon
17:34:20  <planetmaker> andythenorth: that's something which _can_ be done in a backward compatible way
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17:38:00  <z-MaTRiX> what do you think of my fillrate benchmark code?
17:38:10  <z-MaTRiX> dd if=/dev/zero bs=65536 count=48 of=/dev/fb0
17:43:48  <peter1138> semolina pilchards?
17:45:23  <Xaroth> XeryusTC: under the settings menu, select "Competitor signs and names are displayed" .. that works.
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17:48:56  <michi_cc> Somebody should tell oberhuemer to use a line ending aware editor... The CETS commit diffs get quite useless this way...
17:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause> there are diff options to ignore whitespace
17:50:21  <planetmaker> -b
17:50:52  <planetmaker> still michi is right
17:51:29  <XeryusTC> Xaroth: ofcourse i forgot about that option xD thanks :)
17:51:48  <Xaroth> :)
17:52:21  <XeryusTC> at #openttdcoop we all complained to planetmaker for introducing that feature :P
17:52:33  <XeryusTC> because our screenshots didnt have signs in them anymore xD
17:52:36  <Xaroth> XeryusTC: what'd ye think of my claiming-town attempt?
17:52:37  <TrueBrain> I just fix it to show neutral signs :P
17:52:43  <Xaroth> hehe
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18:03:28  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: can the makefile be extended to create two grfs of the same source? (so we can generate a separate grf for the narrow gauge vehicles?)
18:04:25  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: opengfx already does so, so yes, it can
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18:06:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still not sure whether narrow gauge would better be modeled as tram
18:06:22  <Ryxen> Hi all
18:06:29  <Ryxen> i have a question
18:06:57  <Ryxen> i hoped someone could help me with it
18:07:18  <Ryxen> its about the map maker tools
18:07:34  <Eddi|zuHause> "EU forbids putting 'water helps against dehydration' on food packaging"
18:08:17  <Ryxen> could someone help me?
18:08:37  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it needs no extension. Just define two files in the TARGET_FILES in Makefile.config
18:08:50  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: NG - depends on the kind of NG
18:09:22  <andythenorth> if it's unsignalled, low speed, then yes
18:09:36  <andythenorth> otherwise better as a rail type
18:10:40  <Ryxen> Is there a way i can undo my last creation move in a custom made map
18:10:59  <Ryxen> creation = action.
18:12:12  <peter1138> no
18:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Ryxen: only by loading a savegame
18:13:19  <Ryxen> darn
18:13:35  <Ryxen> because i loved this game more then others
18:14:22  <Ryxen> but when creating a map and puss the button place random industrie to mutch!!!
18:14:38  <Ryxen> you must delete everything 1 by 1
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18:15:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Ryxen: if you load your scenario in the nightly version, you can use "export as heightmap" feature
18:16:08  <Eddi|zuHause> (note that scenarios created in the nightly version will not load in older stable versions)
18:17:05  <Ryxen> maby im stupid but how do i load it in nightly version i never heared of it
18:18:41  <planetmaker> same as in stables
18:18:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Ryxen: if you go on you get two options: "download stable" and "download nightly"
18:18:59  <planetmaker> but for savegames and scenarios there's no way back to then use them in stable, once used in a nightly
18:19:08  <Eddi|zuHause> (sporadically you also get "download testing")
18:19:22  <planetmaker> like now
18:19:36  <Eddi|zuHause> (but that is not relevant in this case)
18:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause> we don't have any 1.1.x screenshots
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18:21:49  <Ryxen> do you mean version 1.1.4.rc1?
18:22:00  <Eddi|zuHause> no.
18:22:51  <planetmaker> that's testing, yes
18:23:12  <Ryxen> could you plz help me where i can download that nightly?
18:23:22  <Ryxen> im on the main page
18:23:29  <planetmaker> look up left
18:23:44  <Ryxen> yes
18:23:50  <planetmaker> read the three download options. stop at the 3rd and read again
18:24:28  <planetmaker> especially the 3rd which reads "Download nightly"
18:24:30  <Ryxen> ok thx
18:24:38  <Ryxen> never looked there
18:24:40  <Ryxen> sorry
18:24:42  <Ryxen> :D
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18:24:51  <Ryxen> thx bro
18:24:58  <Ryxen> i hoped this will help
18:25:00  <Ryxen> see ya
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18:26:42  <peter1138> i doubt it :)
18:27:10  * planetmaker finds this conversation hard to believe
18:27:24  <TrueBrain> he bro, he figured it out bro
18:27:25  <TrueBrain> no worries bro
18:27:42  <Eddi|zuHause> s/lol/bro/
18:28:15  <Eddi|zuHause> forgot "g"
18:28:43  <TrueBrain> bro
18:29:08  <Terkhen> :D
18:29:23  <planetmaker> did I mention that I don't fancy being 'bro' of random people?
18:29:33  <planetmaker> especially in these conversations ;-)
18:29:38  <TrueBrain> well bro, it means you need to smoke more pod bro
18:29:44  <TrueBrain> I mean bro, there is nothing wrong with the word bro
18:29:54  <TrueBrain> bro, this is silly :D
18:30:00  <Terkhen> yeah bro
18:30:26  <TrueBrain> bro, Eddi|zuHause, can I please remove that sed from my talk list, it is a bit annoying :D
18:30:28  <TrueBrain> broz :D
18:30:44  <planetmaker> :-D
18:31:36  <planetmaker> off to sports then. I guess, I'll either provide good serves (to hit away the stupidity) or provide bad ones (because of still laughing). Not sure yet
18:34:06  <Eddi|zuHause>
18:36:53  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: that site looks interesting
18:37:06  <Eddi|zuHause> it hurts my eyes, though
18:37:10  <SmatZ> hehe
18:37:35  <SmatZ> well, there seem to be links to some books that might be interesting
18:37:37  * andythenorth is playing MP NoGo
18:37:46  <andythenorth> and doing it all wrong
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18:43:24  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23292 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt dutch.txt swedish.txt):
18:43:24  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:43:24  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: catalan - 57 changes by arnau
18:43:24  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: dutch - 8 changes by habell
18:43:24  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: swedish - 9 changes by Zuu
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18:52:00  <Alberth> evenink
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21:02:38  <Terkhen>  good night
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21:08:44  <appe> night
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21:20:11  <andythenorth> hello Zephyris
21:20:34  <Zephyris> Hey, how's it going?
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21:26:38  <volta> hi folks; i'm somehow stuck by my own stupidity: i'm running a game with the newgrfs "pikka's basic industries" and "UKRS industries brick chain" and the default train set; somehow i'm missing wagons for the new cargos ... any idea which newgrf provides those wagons?
21:29:58  <TWerkhoven[l]> oldwagons newcargos or something similar named
21:30:07  <planetmaker> volta: basically every vehicle newgrf does
21:30:17  <TWerkhoven[l]> or you could try ukrs or nars vehicle sets
21:30:18  <planetmaker> I'd recommend ogfx+trains and ogfx+road vehicles
21:30:50  <planetmaker> they keep the spirit of the existing vehicles, but give you support for every cargo, including special graphics for most
21:31:07  <planetmaker> I'm biased though ;-)
21:31:21  <TrueBrain> really? :P
21:31:26  <volta> ok, i guess i'll have to start over with the new newgrf then
21:32:16  <planetmaker> volta: also use FISH and if you feel like HEQS
21:32:26  <planetmaker> (ships and more RV + trams)
21:32:37  <Sacro> and perhaps TSHI
21:32:40  <Sacro> and FKCU
21:32:49  <planetmaker> bless you
21:32:50  <TrueBrain> you guys have more 4 letter words? :)
21:32:51  * Sacro ponders some new grfs
21:33:07  <volta> i just use trains anyways
21:33:09  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: for nearly every newgrf, sure ;-) But Sacro is making it up :-(
21:33:18  <Sacro> :(
21:33:19  <TrueBrain> owh, and he is making them up ......
21:33:20  <TrueBrain> ;)
21:34:15  <frosch123> two letter words are nicknames, 4 letter words are grfs
21:34:17  <frosch123> easy
21:35:24  <TrueBrain> fros: ah, k
21:36:16  <frosch123> i am no grf :/
21:36:21  <TrueBrain> owh ...
21:36:23  <TrueBrain> sorry fr
21:36:28  <frosch123> :)
21:37:15  <Eddi|zuHause> how far can a discussion derail? (german forum)
21:37:26  <appe> theme jokes.
21:37:29  <appe> funn-eeh.
21:37:48  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: are you challenged? :p
21:39:32  <Sacro> rose
21:39:34  <Sacro> *worse
21:39:36  <Sacro> he's german
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21:49:02  <appe> sweet mother of god
21:49:42  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: <-- that helps ;-)
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21:58:45  <Jabol> Hello.
21:58:54  <planetmaker> hello
21:59:40  <andythenorth> good night
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22:10:01  <Jabol> I had a nice idea that would make OpenTTD more "reallistic".
22:10:13  <Jabol> But then I realized I cannot make this.
22:10:53  <planetmaker> realism is not a design goal. Fun is ;-)
22:11:11  <Jabol> Yeah I know, but I had an idea about day/night cycle that would give some climate to OpenTTD.
22:11:27  <Jabol> If I could know coding and be a very good spriter, I would make a newGRF of it.
22:12:25  <planetmaker> that would need significant changes. Though houses, industries, objects, rails, ... they can change depending on date
22:12:38  <planetmaker> but the terrain can't
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22:13:37  <Jabol> Well, if that would be possible to me, I would make trains have glowing lights, the signalizators glow too, make the terrain darker when there's night, etc...
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22:14:44  <frosch123> no games every annoyed me more, than those with day/night cycles or weather
22:14:49  <frosch123> -y
22:14:52  <planetmaker> you know though that a day lasts 2.2 seconds?
22:15:01  <planetmaker> you'd have a flashing with 1Hz ;-)
22:15:40  <peter1138> hrmm
22:15:43  <frosch123> the most realistic day/night cycle is: work at day, play openttd at night :p
22:15:47  <peter1138>
22:16:07  <planetmaker> lol, frosch123 :-)
22:16:09  <Jabol> Woah, I didn't know.
22:16:27  <peter1138> signalizators?
22:17:09  <Jabol> You don't know what are signalizators?
22:17:11  <peter1138> planetmaker, wouldn't it then be 0.4545 Hz?
22:17:50  <planetmaker> yes
22:17:56  <peter1138> oh balls, i should've named it YAEZ
22:18:35  <Jabol> Argh, my dreams shattered.
22:18:40  <frosch123> peter1138: start again then. do not pass "start", do not collect 4000$
22:18:44  <Jabol> I would love to see speeding trains with glowing lights at the night.
22:18:47  <Jabol> :<
22:20:02  <Jabol> You know, immortal daylight can get boring fastly
22:27:09  <Yexo> Jabol: the biggest problem is the amount of sprites that would have to be created
22:27:15  <Yexo> coding-wise it's quite easy
22:28:09  <peter1138>
22:28:18  <peter1138> ^ there, that's better (it's the same)
22:29:41  <peter1138> there is of course the slight problem of memory usage :S
22:30:07  <frosch123> it is not suitable for cellphones?
22:31:45  <peter1138> the sprite cache needs to be about 20x larger
22:32:26  <frosch123> did you add 4 additional zoom levels?
22:32:32  <peter1138> no, 2
22:32:46  <frosch123> hmm, right
22:33:59  <Jabol> Also it is just me or OpenTTD's graphics would be nice for an RTS?
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22:35:30  <peter1138> should be possible to not encode 2x/4x sprites until they're requested
22:36:16  <planetmaker> peter1138: it's nice. But it makes the game unplayable slow for me
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22:36:31  <planetmaker> even with nothing but a newly generated map
22:37:04  <planetmaker> mouse cursor movement with < 1fps is... not helpful :-(
22:37:33  <planetmaker> at least during station placement
22:39:03  <peter1138> planetmaker, increase your spritecache size
22:39:15  <peter1138> from 4 to 64
22:39:29  <peter1138> 22:33 <@peter1138> the sprite cache needs to be about 20x larger
22:39:49  <peter1138> unlike certain other EZ patches i don't force it :p
22:39:59  <planetmaker> right. I forgot that I need to adjust that manually
22:40:29  <planetmaker> that quite solves it indeed
22:40:38  <peter1138> smallmap is known broken, by the way
22:40:48  <peter1138> haven't worked on it yet, is all
22:42:04  <planetmaker> the increased memory usage is IMHO no problem for modern PCs.
22:43:11  <frosch123> 3840 x 1080 is not enough to play when zoomed in
22:43:44  <frosch123> i suppose it is not meant for playing :)
22:44:05  <planetmaker> :-)
22:44:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the sprite cache should be automatically adjusted to zoom level
22:44:35  <planetmaker> you simply need it when compiled with that patch. Irrespective of current zoom level, Eddi|zuHause
22:45:06  <Eddi|zuHause> then the additional zoom levels should be disable-able
22:45:17  <planetmaker> anyhow, peter1138, with the bigger sprite cache it works very nice and smooth
22:45:24  <planetmaker> and it looks good when zoomed-in
22:45:51  <planetmaker> is it really *2 and *4?
22:46:13  <planetmaker> It feels like *1.5 and *3 or so :-)
22:47:13  <planetmaker> LordAro should see this ;-)
22:47:14  <Jabol> I wish there could be more games with graphics like OpenTTD.
22:48:12  <frosch123> wow, timmaexx shows an example how to make the meaning of a whole paragraph depend on a single punctuation mark :o
22:48:21  <frosch123> ! vs ?
22:50:33  <planetmaker> hm, does it?
22:51:26  <frosch123> ending his post with an "!" or and "?" completely reverses it
22:52:48  <planetmaker> for me it's the difference maybe between annoyed and satiric
22:52:55  <planetmaker> vice versa actually
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22:53:48  <frosch123> ? would require a smiley
22:56:24  <planetmaker> peter1138: damn, it's really nice with the zoom levels :-)
22:56:41  <frosch123> planetmaker: 32bpp topic is more active than ttdp :p
22:56:51  <planetmaker> how that it makes sense also with the usual graphics and doesn't require special sprites
22:56:58  <planetmaker> or otherwise ugly looking sprites
22:57:16  <planetmaker> he, indeed. I saw the numbers but didn't make that comparison ;-)
22:57:40  <frosch123> well, if it was the other way around, i might have posted it :p
22:58:22  <frosch123> just to troll the 32bpp guys
22:58:31  <planetmaker> :-D
22:58:47  <planetmaker> it's been VERY silent lately
22:59:00  <planetmaker> maquinista or so seems to have moved to lomo
22:59:07  <planetmaker> and he produced lots of sprites
23:01:27  <frosch123> hmm, andy is already gone
23:01:44  <frosch123> i wanted to ask him whether he envies ttdp for their suggestion topic
23:03:08  <frosch123> hmm, the number of posts in the ottd dev forum actually suprises me
23:03:15  <frosch123> i expected suggestions to be way more
23:04:58  <planetmaker> there are many postings for each posting which presents a patch
23:05:18  <planetmaker> less so for suggestions
23:05:42  <Jabol> I always found this weird to see people making smileys with "-" noses.
23:05:52  <peter1138> :-)
23:05:54  <planetmaker> btw, I'm more surprised about the general forum being so active ;-)
23:06:05  <peter1138> - noses are traditional
23:06:10  <Jabol> Nu!
23:06:13  <michi_cc> peter1138: Would it be feasible to have a sprite cache per zoom level so you don't need to store the encoded sprite data for all zoom levels even if they're never shown?
23:06:14  <peter1138> yeeeeeees
23:06:21  <frosch123> planetmaker: offtopic and forumgames?
23:06:24  <planetmaker> yes
23:06:25  <peter1138> michi_cc, i think it is
23:06:45  <frosch123> i think i was once in the forumsgames section... i ran away fast
23:06:59  <planetmaker> :-)
23:07:09  <planetmaker> it could never really interest me either
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23:07:29  <planetmaker> so... do we need a 'universal' rail wagon?
23:07:40  <peter1138> no
23:07:40  <planetmaker> Like which can be refit to another wagon type in a depot
23:07:42  <frosch123> i mostly notice it, when i see someone with "4000 posts" post somewhere, and i do not know him :p
23:07:53  <planetmaker> and refit to whatever cargo fits the current wagon in stations?
23:08:02  <peter1138> planetmaker, but it might be fun :)
23:08:18  <planetmaker> refit costs in depot to another wagon of course like buy - sill
23:08:21  <planetmaker> *sell
23:08:25  <peter1138> frosch123, yeah... and then there's all those people lamenting the people who left... who i've never heard of...
23:08:36  <planetmaker> yeah
23:10:01  <michi_cc> So GetSprite() would query if the sprite in the wanted zoom level is already stored, and if not would load it and call Blitter::Encode() to only store that zoom level. You wouldn't even need to blow up the sprite just to shrink it the original size then either.
23:10:35  <frosch123> night
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23:10:40  <planetmaker> gnight fro
23:10:44  <planetmaker> damn! ;-)
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23:11:31  <peter1138> michi_cc, YASC ;)
23:12:12  <glx> YAYA
23:13:00  <peter1138> the -simple blitters never store resized versions anyway
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23:19:00  <peter1138> interesting tidbit
23:19:06  <peter1138> change ZOOM_LVL_GUI to be 2X instead of 4X :)
23:19:17  <peter1138> it mostly works... hehe
23:25:24  <Jabol> Oh right, in what language is OpenTTD coded with?
23:29:33  <peter1138> french
23:29:55  <Jabol> Very funny
23:30:48  <Jabol> But now seriously: In what language?
23:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of them
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23:55:26  <Xaroth> Jabol: check the codebase?
23:55:31  <Xaroth> and lol @ Neon's quitmsg.
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