Log for #openttd on 9th December 2011:
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01:53:08  <RetiredNavyVet> any idea why I can't pick up fruit (v1.1.4) with a refrigerated train car?
01:53:31  <Eddi|zuHause> you refitted it to fruit?
01:53:53  <RetiredNavyVet> its description say it can carry fruit...still need to refit?
01:54:13  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on the vehicle set
01:54:32  <RetiredNavyVet> hmmmm, ok. I'll check, may have misread the info
01:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause> click on the vehicle and there on vehicle details
01:55:06  <Eddi|zuHause> there you can see what the vehicle is actually carrying
01:55:33  <RetiredNavyVet> ahhhh, it, ty!
01:55:52  <RetiredNavyVet> RTFM!
01:57:10  <RetiredNavyVet> lol, now I know why I couldn't pick up wood earlier today too
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07:11:34  <appe> morning people
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07:31:45  <planetmaker> moin
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07:57:19  <Lachie> I'm getting a syntax error 'unexpected token ":". I assume it's talking about the colon in name:  blah of the line it's complaining about. Any reason why it would do this?
07:58:22  <Lachie> (in NML, derp)
08:07:02  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r23454 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Change: Mark company window dirty when moving a rail engine creates or deletes a train.
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08:19:59  <peter1138>
08:20:02  <peter1138> oops?
08:23:41  <planetmaker> :-D
08:23:45  <planetmaker> Seems something failed
08:24:11  <planetmaker> Lachie: it would need the code to see why
08:24:17  <Noldo> oh, that's why they shut them down on high winds
08:24:26  <planetmaker> maybe missing semicolon in the previous line?
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08:24:57  <peter1138> Noldo, yeah
08:26:23  <planetmaker> Mostly, I'd assume they have a max. rotation speed due to mechanical wear / material strength
08:26:41  <planetmaker> it's pointless and not helpful if the blade tips rotate supersonic
08:28:26  <Lachie> planetmaker: just the specific line in question?
08:28:39  <peter1138> previous lines
08:28:55  <peter1138> i'm guessing whatever mechanism stops it failed
08:29:18  <Lachie> nevermind, it was a mistake on my half. I forgot to add the "property" bit
08:29:29  <peter1138>
08:29:36  <peter1138> ^ mind you, that won't help either, heh
08:29:40  <Lachie> so it just went item (blah, blah) { name:
08:32:29  <planetmaker> the whole block I'd say.
08:32:36  <planetmaker> NML is written in block
08:32:37  <planetmaker> s
08:33:06  <planetmaker> ah, nvm
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08:37:29  <Lachie> yeah, I'm a slow learner.
08:37:48  <Lachie> it also doesn't want to accept a t in one "weight" property, but is fine with all the others
08:38:10  <planetmaker> it doesn't accept them in callbacks iirc
08:38:13  <planetmaker> not yet
08:38:18  <planetmaker> only in property blocks
08:40:14  <Lachie> 'tis a property block
08:40:47  <planetmaker> no quoted code, no idea, I'm afraid
08:41:27  <planetmaker> no offence, but it's probably something stupid. These things usually take the longest to see. You're not alone there :-)
08:41:47  <Lachie> power:					500hp; weight:					60t; engine_class:			ENGINE_CLASS_STEAM;
08:42:03  <Lachie> would have been nice for some line breaks. Thanks, NotePad++
08:42:14  <planetmaker> there are paste services...
08:42:20  <Lachie> touche.
08:42:36  <Lachie> I'm in the midst of cooking dinner, so I'll leave it til I'm back.
08:43:16  <planetmaker> <-- tells you the unit is ton or tons. Not t
08:44:23  <Lachie> ah. it's weird that it only picked up that one then, and not in the other property blocks. will get on to that one shortly.
08:44:52  <planetmaker> it complains about the first found
08:46:45  <Lachie> and it's just occured to me that ofcourse it didn't pick up the other mentions, they were all commented out. I should probably just go back to bed today.
08:52:04  <planetmaker> in that case: sweet dreams :-)
08:56:20  <planetmaker> hm... they yesterday stopped a truck driver on the highway that drunk that he could barely stand and that drunk incapable to make an alcohol test...
08:57:18  <planetmaker> still, no-one was hurt, no accident caused. By sheer luck
09:06:34  <SpComb> or mad truck driver skillz :)
09:06:40  <SpComb> they probably have a lot of practice
09:08:07  <planetmaker> he had two empty schnaps bottles in the cabin ;-)
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09:35:15  <peter1138> general protection fault: 0000 [#1] SMP
09:35:23  <peter1138> not seen a GPF for a long time...
09:35:38  <planetmaker> err, what?
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09:36:02  <Cornelian> Hello, anyone?
09:36:09  <planetmaker> good when you can complain to someone else then, peter1138 ;-)
09:36:12  <planetmaker> hi Cornelian
09:36:32  <Cornelian> Is it possible that you can help me with a prolbem i've been having in OpenTTD
09:37:03  <peter1138> planetmaker, complain? :p
09:37:08  <planetmaker> possible. But such questions can only be answered when the nature of the problem is known
09:37:17  <planetmaker> i.e.: don't ask to to ask. Just ask
09:37:28  <planetmaker> @topic get -3
09:37:28  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
09:37:42  <Alberth> even DorpsGek agrees :)
09:37:46  <planetmaker> :-)
09:37:51  <Cornelian> Allright :) I simply can't choose the load if available option in my transports
09:37:52  <planetmaker> it's in the topic for a reason
09:38:05  <peter1138> you can
09:38:06  <planetmaker> that's the default
09:38:07  <peter1138> it's the default
09:38:24  <Cornelian> well... my default is full load
09:38:40  <Cornelian> when i try to pick the first it deselects...
09:38:41  <planetmaker> then disable the 'full load' and you have 'if available'
09:39:08  <Cornelian> That's what i try, but it just turn off picking up anything
09:39:24  <Alberth> that's 'no loading'
09:39:35  <Cornelian> Yes exactly
09:40:08  <planetmaker> <-- have you read?
09:40:21  <Cornelian> Oh yes
09:40:32  <Cornelian> I've been all around the wiki ;)
09:42:38  <planetmaker> well. On stations you always have those 4 options available as loading.
09:42:46  <Cornelian> Yes
09:42:47  <planetmaker>
09:42:57  <Cornelian> i can select all of them, except the top one
09:43:12  <Cornelian> if i do, it disables loading
09:43:25  <planetmaker> what does "disable loading" mean?
09:43:30  <Cornelian> It
09:43:42  <planetmaker> with "available" it means that the train goes to the station, picks up what is wating, and then leaves
09:43:48  <planetmaker> if there's nothing waiting, it won't load
09:43:50  <Cornelian> Yes, i can do that
09:43:56  <Cornelian> can't*
09:44:28  <Alberth>  <-- order 1 is load if available, 2 is full load
09:44:46  <Cornelian> Yes, now click the drop down
09:44:50  <planetmaker> can't do what exaclty? That entry surely is available in the load order drop down list?
09:44:55  <Cornelian> click load if availbe
09:45:02  <planetmaker> and then you're done
09:45:11  <Cornelian> No, because it doesn't do that
09:45:30  <planetmaker> oh, it does. But does your train allow to carry the cargo you want to carry?
09:45:40  <Cornelian> I'll illustrate just a sec
09:45:46  <planetmaker> i.e. are the wagons equipped to carry what yo uwant to pickup?
09:46:20  <planetmaker> please include info on cargo-to-carry and cargo capacity of vehicle :-)
09:46:40  <Cornelian> A bus for example, picking up passengers
09:46:44  <planetmaker> yup
09:46:55  <Cornelian> It will wait untill it has a full load or 100%
09:47:06  <planetmaker> 100% = full load
09:47:13  <Cornelian> yes
09:47:16  <Alberth> you mean it also picks up passengers arriving while you load?
09:47:18  <Cornelian> Then it will leave the station. This takes forever
09:47:18  <planetmaker> "if available" can mean anything between 0 and 100%
09:47:25  <Cornelian> I know
09:47:29  <Cornelian> That's what i want it to do
09:47:40  <Cornelian> But the option doesn't work
09:47:48  <planetmaker> can you provide a savegame where I can see that behaviour?
09:47:50  <Alberth> what version?
09:48:03  <Cornelian> 1.1.4
09:48:08  <Cornelian> this is what happens
09:48:17  <Cornelian> It's in danish, but it's the same order
09:48:40  <planetmaker> I don't see anything there?
09:48:42  <Alberth> it's empty
09:48:47  <Cornelian> Oh crap..
09:49:12  <planetmaker> use imagebin
09:50:08  <Cornelian>
09:50:09  <Cornelian> There
09:50:22  <planetmaker> yes. and?
09:50:27  <planetmaker> looks to me like it's working
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09:50:40  <planetmaker> it doesn't say in the orders above "if available"
09:50:43  <planetmaker> but that's normal
09:50:46  <planetmaker> as it's default
09:51:02  <Cornelian> are you saying, if nothing is selected
09:51:11  <Alberth> the line with the order is what you should look at, not at the button
09:51:11  <planetmaker> if it says nothing else it's always "unload and load if available"
09:51:15  <Cornelian> it will pick up if available
09:51:26  <Cornelian> Oh. My. God
09:51:28  <planetmaker> "unload if accepted and load if available" is default. And not textually indicated
09:51:57  <planetmaker> Maybe it's a suggestion for improvement ;-)
09:51:57  <Cornelian> That's what confused me. It not being indicated
09:52:21  <Cornelian> It could be
09:52:29  <Cornelian> Anyways, thank you very much :)
09:52:35  <planetmaker> you're welcome
09:52:36  <Cornelian> You deserve a cookie
09:52:47  <planetmaker> *mampf*
09:52:55  <Cornelian> lol
09:53:00  <Cornelian> Bye :D
09:53:04  <planetmaker> enjoy :-)
09:53:08  <Alberth> have fun playing :)
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09:54:04  <planetmaker> hm... :-) I might possibly make sense indeed to indicate also default orders
09:54:13  <planetmaker> a bit more text. But so what
09:54:31  <planetmaker> hm... maybe two colums. A load and an unload column
09:54:40  <planetmaker> which indicate the corresponding actions
09:54:49  <planetmaker> new order gui
09:54:53  <planetmaker> damn
09:55:27  <Alberth> always text would be sufficient imho
09:55:53  <Alberth> although the separation of loading and unloading does seem to confuse people
09:56:18  * Alberth wonders what the wiki says about it
09:57:22  <planetmaker> always text would be sufficient. but it would be nicer if one could change the load and unload behaviour directly where it is shown
09:57:31  <planetmaker> but that's a different task than "always show"
09:59:53  <Alberth> hmm, that would clean up the mess at the bottom :)
10:00:13  <planetmaker> yes
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10:00:25  <planetmaker> it's not exactly intuitively usable
10:01:33  <planetmaker> <| Goto non-stop |> Some Nice Place      <| Unload if available |> <| Load if available |>
10:01:45  <planetmaker> a line like that where you could change in place would be MUCH more intuitive
10:01:46  <Alberth> the window would be much wider?
10:01:53  <planetmaker> yes, would be wider
10:02:09  <planetmaker> though... in columns, maybe not much
10:02:40  * Alberth ponders a kind of pop-up when you click an order
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10:02:56  <planetmaker> I'd like arrows where you can just change it
10:03:04  <planetmaker> like the adv. settings
10:03:18  <planetmaker> though a drop down there would also work
10:04:34  <planetmaker> Goto non-stop |v| Barlinghausen-SÃŒd     unload if accepted |v| load if available |v|
10:05:07  <planetmaker> one would not even have to remove the buttons below for hysterical raisins
10:05:08  <Alberth> I am still not entirely convinced you want to have the uload + load combination
10:05:18  <planetmaker> Yes, why not?
10:05:26  <Alberth> as the combination does not make a lot of sense
10:05:27  <planetmaker> that's what you actually normally do, don't you?
10:05:31  <planetmaker> not?
10:05:41  <planetmaker> not all, agreed
10:06:08  <Alberth> hmm, good point, I guess I mean forced unload/load
10:06:15  <planetmaker> but "no unload and load". "unload and no load". "transfer and no load"
10:07:01  <planetmaker> I'm still not warm with the concept of forced unload. As one usually either wants it unload (when accepted) or unloaded and further transported (=transfer)
10:07:12  <Alberth> the trouble is of course when some cargo-d*st hits trunk :)
10:07:27  <planetmaker> the "unload" order is also a bit confusing for newbies who don't know that it means "unload always and process, if accepted"
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10:14:00  <schultza> why is my pre-signal not selecting my round-about track? for waiting trains?
10:14:26  <Alberth> picture please :)
10:14:32  <Alberth> or a save game
10:14:47  <schultza> how do i make a picture?
10:15:06  <schultza> or how do i create a proper round-about track that will be used?
10:16:04  <Alberth> I use a screenshot tool, normally, but the ? at the right of the top bar has a screenshot menu too
10:16:31  <Alberth> round-abouts are very tricky, they tend to cause deadlocks
10:17:05  <planetmaker> ctrl+s
10:17:13  <planetmaker> is much quicker in creating screenshots
10:17:29  <Alberth> a round-about where the whole round-about can be used by 1 train at a time is safe, but has little capacity
10:17:38  * SpComb ping timeouts
10:18:15  <schultza> how do i send the file now?
10:18:55  <Alberth> use a image pastebin site, like imagebin
10:19:15  <Alberth> (and paste the url here)
10:21:19  <schultza>
10:21:50  <planetmaker> you're using a path signal as entrance. Not a pre-signal
10:21:56  <planetmaker> don't mix block and path signals
10:22:02  <peter1138> presignals smell
10:22:15  <schultza> how do i set this up correctly then?
10:22:17  <peter1138> good in their day
10:22:43  <planetmaker> remove all exist signals at the entrance. And replace all exit signals at the exit by normal signals
10:22:51  <planetmaker> and read the signal pages in the wiki
10:23:16  <planetmaker> they have a few simple examples
10:23:21  <lugo> files didn't seem to get attached to #4
10:23:27  <lugo> *#4876
10:23:32  <schultza> im trying to follow this >
10:23:42  <planetmaker> which explain the use
10:24:02  <peter1138> that's rather old :)
10:24:50  <planetmaker> the page you quoted doesn't seem to know anything about signal types
10:25:22  <planetmaker> and targeted at transport tycoon deluxe
10:25:30  <planetmaker> which is an ooooold game ;-)
10:25:53  <planetmaker> then attach them now, lugo ;-)
10:26:08  * lugo searches the edit button
10:26:21  <lugo> or via comment?
10:26:24  <planetmaker> comment
10:26:43  <planetmaker> the bug tracker has no edit for a reason
10:30:35  <lugo> done
10:30:51  <schultza> so the easiest way is to remove the exit points in front of the station? and continue with the path signal?
10:32:02  <planetmaker> ty, lugo
10:32:10  <planetmaker> schultza: yes
10:32:34  <planetmaker> alternatively replace the single path signal by an entry signal
10:33:28  <planetmaker> hm, lugo, can you give me the missing NewGRFs (all which are random/* )?
10:33:48  <planetmaker> and the SAC one?
10:36:58  <planetmaker> lugo: and do you have still a savegame which will run and not crash immediately?
10:38:57  <planetmaker> (but maybe after a few seconds)
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10:44:31  <planetmaker> lugo: but... this crash seems totally unrelated to any desync on first sight
10:45:28  <lugo> i fear the autosaves all got overwritten, and didn't manually save before >1902 :/
10:45:40  <lugo> you don't have testw.grf are you kidding me? :P
10:45:57  <planetmaker> All those NewGRFs in random/* are missing and not available online
10:46:08  <planetmaker> nor do I have that version of SAC's objects
10:46:28  <planetmaker> it's not the testw.grf
10:47:12  <planetmaker> it's a firs, tramdpw, VASTobjects and maricow
10:50:01  <lugo> i'm wondering about a way to send them to you, i can only ssh-via-http to my server right now...
10:50:07  <lugo> do you have an ftp?
10:50:27  <planetmaker> no. But there's e-mail and forum mail
10:51:02  <planetmaker> alternatively they could be attached to the bug report. As anyone who wants to look at the game would need them, too
10:51:08  <planetmaker> as one zip file
10:51:35  <lugo> yeah don't have a cli email client set up right now :)
10:52:19  <planetmaker> but surly you can scp the stuff to you and send from the computer you're chatting from
10:53:26  <planetmaker> or you have a ftp or http server on your openttd server machine
10:53:34  <planetmaker> then I could retrieve them that way
10:54:17  <lugo> yeah would need to access port-forwarding for that, which i can't right now :/
10:54:29  <lugo> and i didn't find a viable way to scp via http yet
10:54:52  <schultza> grr... neither way makes my trains use the round-about
10:54:53  <planetmaker> well. Then the same way you got the other files
10:55:07  <lugo> the hard one
10:55:34  <planetmaker> scp and then mail is hard?
10:56:03  <planetmaker> you obviously have ssh to the server. Use scp by the same channel
10:56:10  <lugo> i'm using consoleFISH, i think you can't transfer files with it
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10:58:22  <lugo>
10:59:14  <planetmaker> grab winscp
11:00:23  <planetmaker> on any other system you'll have scp already
11:00:46  <lugo> ...well i've heard of ways to tunnel through http with winscp, but i'm not to eager trying that out right now :D
11:01:35  <lugo> well setting up a ftp listening on the currently unused torrent port might work ;D
11:03:25  <planetmaker> well. you got somehow the other two files :-)
11:03:40  <planetmaker> I trust you that the same method will work again
11:04:03  <planetmaker> I mean... you'd just need a web-based browser for your file system
11:04:12  <planetmaker> not even ssh
11:04:27  <planetmaker> (as problematic as that might be from a security standpoint)
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11:13:08  <schultza> still having problems creating the loop around
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11:15:56  <Wolf01> hello
11:18:15  * Alberth waves hi
11:18:57  <Alberth> schultza: if you want help, we need more info than that
11:19:40  <planetmaker> a loop is a means to achieve some things (though often a bad one), but barely a goal in itself ;-)
11:19:53  <schultza> same situation... i tried both alternatives to fixing the track with a round-about try-again approach, and the additional track is not being used....
11:20:45  <Alberth> try-again approach?
11:21:26  <schultza> overflow round-about
11:21:53  <schultza> basically, im building an overflow loop
11:22:23  <planetmaker> better build an overflow depot ;-)
11:22:39  <planetmaker> as that has infinite capacity
11:22:47  <schultza> just a depot before the station?
11:22:56  <schultza> is that the only way to manage overflow?
11:23:48  <Alberth>
11:24:05  * Alberth always builds a waiting bay, looks nicer :)
11:38:51  <lugo> planetmaker:
11:39:48  <planetmaker> that's only one of the grf files?
11:48:33  <schultza> ugh.. some code needs to be fixed.. the looptrack needs to be seen... i will start using the escape depot
11:48:58  <lugo> planetmaker:
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12:07:42  <Alberth> looptrack as at the wiki works for me
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13:18:19  <andythenorth> hello
13:19:41  <lugo> salut!
13:22:14  <planetmaker> lugo: I'm still missing the four newgrfs from the random folder of your crashy savegame
13:22:29  <planetmaker> you linked wallys and sac's objects...
13:22:37  <planetmaker> hi andythenorth
13:29:10  <lugo>
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13:31:01  <lugo>
13:31:41  <planetmaker> you sure it's the very same versions?
13:33:45  <planetmaker> hm, yes
13:34:03  <lugo> wasn't too sure ;)
13:34:55  <planetmaker> if you use non-bananas newgrfs always supply them with bug reports
13:38:47  <Eddi|zuHause> the press makes it sound like they are going to throw britan out of the EU :p
13:39:53  <lugo> i'd have dull feeling uploading other peoples grf, but if that's needed... i may add them in the comments when i'm home...
13:40:22  <planetmaker> lugo: that's why I offered you to send them to me via e-mail or forum mail
13:40:34  <planetmaker> (would also be much more convenient for me
13:40:45  <planetmaker> as I'd not have to click X links or downloads
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13:41:02  <lugo> yeah i was searching for a more elegant solution
13:41:12  <planetmaker> gather, zip, mail?
13:41:17  <planetmaker> makes me wonder
13:41:26  <planetmaker> really
13:41:36  <planetmaker> and get proper ssh to your machine
13:43:34  <lugo> usage of ssh in the network i'm in right now, isn't exactly appreciated i'm afraid :)
13:46:46  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf?
13:47:25  <Eddi|zuHause> do they also forbid you to lock your car when parked?
13:48:20  <lugo> i think i don't get the analogy, but telnet is blocked either..
13:49:08  <Alberth> standard ports can normally not be opened by user programs
13:49:25  <lugo> and that's what my problem is
13:49:38  <Alberth> so use a non-standard port :)
13:49:57  <Alberth> something above 1024 or so
13:50:41  <Alberth> or yell at the sys-admin that he should install ssh ;)
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14:03:04  <Belugas> hello
14:07:24  *** nooblord5000 [] has joined #openttd
14:07:27  <nooblord5000> hello
14:07:52  <planetmaker> hullo
14:09:07  * andythenorth keeps finding bugs
14:09:12  * andythenorth should play the game more
14:10:14  <planetmaker> that seldom hurts ;-)
14:17:35  <nooblord5000> hya
14:18:49  <nooblord5000> im running a server
14:18:54  <nooblord5000> anyone wanna join?
14:19:06  <nooblord5000> the name is nooblord5000's world
14:19:11  <nooblord5000> no password
14:19:18  <nooblord5000> free to join anyone
14:19:20  <Yexo> nooblord5000: up until a few days ago we always had more servers that clients
14:19:29  <Yexo> right now it's oppposite, but not by much
14:19:39  <Yexo> the current average is like 1.2 players per server
14:19:44  <nooblord5000> u wanna join?
14:19:48  <Yexo> in other words: we don't need more servers, but more online clients
14:19:57  <nooblord5000> fine
14:20:15  <nooblord5000> u dont wanna join
14:20:28  <nooblord5000> anyone?
14:21:15  <planetmaker> Yexo: indeed there seem meanwhile about the same, clients and servers
14:21:17  <Belugas> he... anyone else would probably have the same opinion as Yexo, nooblord5000 :)
14:21:30  <planetmaker> or even slightly more clients
14:21:38  <Belugas> as for myself, I am working
14:21:40  <nooblord5000> so no one?
14:21:43  <planetmaker> doesn't make your recommendation invalid, though
14:22:19  <planetmaker> nooblord5000: people will join it. If you give it some time
14:22:37  <planetmaker> For people to return you'll need to provide good "service" though
14:22:55  <planetmaker> Like active moderation / administration and interesting maps and a reliable uptime
14:24:01  <nooblord5000> im a new to this
14:24:17  <nooblord5000> and my time zon is +1
14:24:20  <nooblord5000> GMT
14:24:51  <nooblord5000> i just hit 20000 people in my biggest town!
14:25:10  <nooblord5000> and yeah the server is on right now
14:28:07  <nooblord5000> anyone free to join
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14:35:06  <nooblord5000> JOIN SERVER:name:nooblord5000's world,on time: RIGHT NOW,password:THERE IS NO ONE!
14:35:25  <TrueBrain> nooblord5000: this channel is not meant to advertise your server. Please don't.
14:35:44  <Yexo> a single line if fine, but now you've gone over the top a bit
14:39:00  <nooblord5000> why
14:39:12  <Belugas> because you are spamming
14:39:15  <Belugas> which is rude
14:39:20  <Belugas> and annyoing
14:39:24  <nooblord5000> im not
14:39:33  <nooblord5000> im just tell ing about my server
14:39:38  <Belugas> i have a bad day, don't start
14:39:38  <TrueBrain> nooblord5000: imagine all 250 server admins advertising their server every 5 minutes in this channel :)
14:40:03  <TrueBrain> we have a serverlist to tell people about your server. and although I really like your enthousiasm for this game, it simply is a channel rule: do not advertise your server :)
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14:40:25  <nooblord5000> ok
14:40:29  <nooblord5000> didnt know that
14:40:35  <TrueBrain> and that is okay :)
14:40:37  <Belugas> thanks for your understanding :)
14:40:38  <andythenorth> you could advertise in #openttdservers :P
14:40:41  <nooblord5000> there is 250 servers?
14:40:57  <TrueBrain> nooblord5000: this channel is not meant to advertise your server. Please don't.
14:40:58  <TrueBrain> oops
14:41:00  <TrueBrain> sorry :)
14:41:04  <TrueBrain> my copy/paste buffer fucke dup
14:41:07  <TrueBrain>
14:41:11  <TrueBrain> that I wanted to paste :)
14:41:14  * Belugas hugs SlowBrain
14:41:19  <planetmaker> :-D
14:41:29  <TrueBrain> "Servers registered as on 2011-12-09 14:44:09 UTC. There are 308 clients, 229 IPv4 servers and 37 IPv6 servers."
14:41:31  <andythenorth> which bugs should I fix first :P
14:41:38  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: the OSX ones please
14:41:39  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I thought you were disappearing for some days?
14:41:45  <planetmaker> were I?
14:41:50  <andythenorth> maybe I misread
14:42:04  <andythenorth> feel like some FIRS tickets?  Small ones?
14:42:09  <nooblord5000> lol
14:42:24  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you only have yourself to blame for thatone :P You walked right into his trap :D
14:42:33  <planetmaker> I guess :-)
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14:43:15  <planetmaker> andythenorth: more likely after the upcoming release(s)
14:43:25  <planetmaker> want to finish a few things before that
14:43:30  <andythenorth> what are you releasing?
14:44:04  <planetmaker> look back a year less 14 days ;-)
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14:48:40  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I could also say: something which gives more incentive to players using firs 0.7
14:48:49  <andythenorth> :)
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14:50:34  <planetmaker> that's the same thing which crashes, lugo's game, Yexo
14:51:26  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: nogo-0.2 allows you to build roads (for free) in world generation; maybe you can make a GS to show your town algorithm by connecting all towns? :D:D
14:51:31  <Yexo> I know,but I hope this game has more known grfs
14:51:48  <planetmaker> :-)
14:52:15  <planetmaker> one
14:53:11  <planetmaker> which is also available in the net it seems
14:53:13  <Yexo> only mainhqw.grf is missing
14:54:24  <planetmaker> searching for that filename will give you a download link
14:55:06  <planetmaker> <-- or there
14:55:22  <Yexo> don't need it
14:56:22  <planetmaker> I know
14:56:34  <planetmaker> it can only be static actionA
14:57:00  <Yexo> found the bug too
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15:02:59  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23455 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r23438): send the stderr in the right part to /dev/null
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15:08:09  <Yexo> <planetmaker> that's the same thing which crashes, lugo's game, Yexo <_ you remember where he posted that?
15:08:24  <planetmaker> on FS
15:08:44  <planetmaker> <-- but quite wrong title
15:09:10  <Yexo> that is a completely different issue
15:09:20  <planetmaker> no, the attached crash log is that issue
15:09:33  <planetmaker> at least the crash.sav has
15:09:40  <Yexo> same as which issue?
15:09:46  <planetmaker> as this one in the forums
15:09:51  <Yexo> I' ve been fixing this one
15:09:59  <planetmaker> yes
15:10:08  <Yexo> that has to do with airports, not with road stops
15:10:28  <planetmaker> Message: Assertion failed at line 2086 of ..\src\station_cmd.cpp: layout < as->num_table <-- I get the same with lugo's crash.sav
15:10:55  <planetmaker> thus the desync and crash he talks about are totally different things IMHO
15:10:56  <Yexo> planetmaker: that bug was introduced in r23441, lugo played with r23440
15:11:20  <planetmaker> I loaded it in my trunk, granted
15:11:42  <Yexo> those are really different issues
15:12:33  <planetmaker> then that (new) bug stopped me getting the same thing :-)
15:12:51  <planetmaker> I know of no other bug then
15:13:06  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23456 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23441): oilrigs don't have any layouts nor do they provide airport noise
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15:20:59  <Hirundo> today's wtf is a meta-wtf:
15:22:00  <Yexo> hahaha
15:22:27  <peter1138> haven't read that site for years, heh
15:23:03  <Yexo> Is there anything in the spec that requires industries to have tile 0,0 in their layout?
15:26:07  <andythenorth> hmm
15:26:12  <andythenorth> how do I animate in FIRS?
15:27:41  <Hirundo> Yexo: IIRC not
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15:28:55  <Hirundo> andythenorth: a) show different gfx depending on animation_frame and b) set animation properties (simple stuff) and/or callbacks (more complex stuff)
15:29:30  * andythenorth looks
15:29:58  <planetmaker> plastic plant (?) has it
15:33:40  <andythenorth> the iron works (I'm working on has it)
15:35:07  <andythenorth> or is that using child sprites?
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15:36:29  <planetmaker> child sprites or not. It's about showing one sprite or another depending on animation frame
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15:44:49  <andythenorth> so I need to define animation in a child sprite?
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15:48:23  <planetmaker> andythenorth: not necessarily. If it's, say, a building sprite, you can also swap the whole building sprite as animation frame
15:48:31  <planetmaker> s/as/during an/
15:50:16  <andythenorth> I wish I could unlearn nfo :(
15:50:23  <andythenorth> it is a definite hinderance
15:51:20  <Yexo> how is that a hinderance?
15:53:56  <andythenorth> too much doesn't translate
15:54:22  <andythenorth> nml is an entirely different way of creating a grf
15:54:56  <andythenorth> makes nml much more difficult than nml really is
15:59:06  <andythenorth> bringing a gun to a knife fight :P
16:00:49  <peter1138> child sprites are an optimisation thing
16:01:15  <peter1138> they occupy the same bounding box
16:03:01  <peter1138> only the parent sprites are sorted
16:04:45  <peter1138> something i noticed with newgrfs
16:04:58  <peter1138> tile layouts tend to have lots of bounding boxes, one for each sprite
16:05:26  <planetmaker> andythenorth: knowing NFO is not a hindrance but an asset. It helps you understand quite a few quirks
16:05:35  <peter1138> like the swedish houses, they have a bounding box for the flag
16:05:48  <peter1138> which could just as easily be part of the regular sprite
16:08:27  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23457 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: introduce Industry::TileBelongsToIndustry() to simplify code checking for that
16:09:04  <peter1138> FIRS fruit plantation has a lot of bounding boxes
16:09:11  <planetmaker> :-)
16:09:20  <peter1138> some even overlap the tile edge o_O
16:09:23  <Arkabzol> Hell yeah Sweden.
16:09:23  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23458 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:
16:09:23  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Fix: don't assume all industries that cut trees have tile 0,0
16:09:23  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Fix: wait until all tiles of an industry are completed before starting to cut trees
16:11:25  <peter1138> andythenorth, maybe you should use more child sprites ;)
16:11:39  <peter1138> nothing to do with animation thoughy
16:12:36  <peter1138> stations generally need bounding boxes cos they have vehicles going through them
16:13:01  <peter1138> but industries don't
16:14:21  <peter1138> heh, and the smoke on the metal foundry has a bounding box
16:15:45  <peter1138> i guess there's a misconception as to what bounding boxes are for ;)
16:36:41  <andythenorth> I use bounding boxes because I don't know how not to
16:37:50  <andythenorth> also
16:38:04  <andythenorth> are there any examples of animation with nml?  I just need to swap realsprites
16:39:09  <andythenorth> normally I'd just check var 44
16:39:23  <andythenorth> and enable animation on the tile
16:42:06  <Yexo> opengfx+airports has animation for at least the flags
16:42:12  <Yexo> doesn't firs already have some animation?
16:42:33  <Yexo> var 44 is named "animation_frame" in nml
16:42:35  <planetmaker> andythenorth: FIRS iirc has animations
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16:43:21  <andythenorth> I'm probably doing this wrong
16:43:52  <Yexo> can you show the changes you already have?
16:44:01  <andythenorth> I don't have any :)
16:44:04  <andythenorth> I have no idea what to change
16:44:26  <andythenorth> I should just start from scratch and write a full industry
16:44:41  <Yexo> what do you want to change?
16:44:43  <planetmaker> laluminum plant has it, andythenorth
16:44:53  <Yexo> ie which industry / tiles do you want to add animation to?
16:44:56  <andythenorth> iron works
16:44:59  <andythenorth> it already has animation though
16:45:14  <andythenorth> I'll just waste your time with dumb questions
16:45:21  <andythenorth> I need to write an industry grf from scratch in nml
16:45:59  <andythenorth> I'll do that later
16:46:25  <Yexo> it's really no problem to keep asking questions
16:46:56  <andythenorth> I won't learn anything
16:47:14  <andythenorth> also there's a manual
16:47:17  <Yexo> I doubt that
16:47:44  <planetmaker> I think what you might want to do, is implement one industry from scratch in NML
16:47:49  <planetmaker> but you can do that in FIRS, too
16:47:51  <andythenorth> I had approximately zero questions when using the tutorial to create vehicles in nml
16:47:54  <andythenorth> maybe one or two
16:48:11  <Yexo> ^^ if you do create a simple industry in nml, perhaps we could use that as example?
16:48:11  <planetmaker> just skip all templates when doing so
16:48:19  <planetmaker> also ^^
16:48:19  <Yexo> we don't have example code for industries yet
16:49:12  <planetmaker> also, other animation code is found with e.g. the oil wells
16:49:24  <andythenorth> good point
16:49:53  <andythenorth> that appears to use the cb
16:53:13  <andythenorth> what would be an amusing standalone industry?
16:53:20  <andythenorth> I keep thinking a lighthouse...
16:53:41  <planetmaker> Post office. Input = Output
16:53:43  <planetmaker> :-P
16:54:03  <planetmaker> gives you exponentially more mail when you input mail from towns ;-)
16:55:03  <planetmaker> Well. Maybe a fish farm?
16:55:46  <Yexo> output=input won't really work, but output=input/4 or so might be interesting
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16:59:29  <planetmaker> Or maybe some ancient industries... not sure which... a pottery?
16:59:36  <planetmaker> accepting clay?
16:59:40  <planetmaker> producing goods?
16:59:57  <b_jonas> shouldn't towns work like that anyway, returning some of the passengers you take there?
17:01:03  <planetmaker> personally I really would like a fish farm :-)
17:01:57  <andythenorth> should probably be in core FIRS
17:02:25  <planetmaker> I like the fish cargo. And fish farms would allow fish also on land or near the shore
17:02:46  <planetmaker> And has many options for interesting graphics
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17:10:49  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23459 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: don't crash trying to draw airport tiles when the airport grf is missing
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17:25:58  <andythenorth> what will this evaluate to?
17:25:58  <andythenorth> THIS_ID(spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof)
17:26:16  <andythenorth> when CPP parses it
17:26:39  <planetmaker> depends on the definition of THIS_ID. In FIRS it's defined per industry.
17:26:49  <Yexo> something like aluminium_plant_spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof
17:27:02  <planetmaker> And expands to Industry_spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof
17:27:15  <planetmaker> where Industry is the actual industry name
17:27:40  <planetmaker> Actually both, Yexo and I quoted one _ too much ;-)
17:27:48  <andythenorth> so passing params to CPP is like a concat?
17:27:59  <planetmaker> that macro is just concattening
17:28:04  <andythenorth> ok
17:28:05  <Yexo> it depends on the macro
17:28:13  <planetmaker> but ^^
17:28:16  <Yexo> #define THIS_ID(...) aluminium_plant ## __VA_ARGS__
17:28:27  <Yexo> ## is concat in cpp
17:28:40  <andythenorth> ok
17:29:06  <andythenorth> I thought the params were for nml, and THIS_ID was substituting a constant
17:29:14  <andythenorth> or such
17:29:23  <planetmaker> nope, it's all cpp magic
17:29:25  <Yexo> nml never sees THIS_ID
17:29:40  <andythenorth> so a lot of what I think are parameters, aren't
17:29:40  <planetmaker> to avoid writing the lengthy industry name
17:29:48  <planetmaker> and to allow to write macros independent of industry
17:30:06  <Yexo> andythenorth: if you only write a single industry, leave out all those THIS_ID macros
17:30:17  <planetmaker> yes.
17:30:32  <andythenorth> I am back trying to unpick the existing code :P
17:30:33  <Yexo> their use is to make THIS_ID(some_tile) and THIS_ID(some_tile) have unique names when used for different industries
17:30:34  <planetmaker> no macros: no THIS_ID needed
17:30:54  <Yexo> that way both the oil rig and the aluminum plant can have THIS_ID(tile_a) without them overwriting eachother
17:33:04  <andythenorth> can nml do a concat?
17:33:34  <Yexo> for strings: yes, for identifiers, no
17:33:40  <andythenorth> hmm
17:33:41  <andythenorth> ok
17:33:46  <Rubidium> andythenorth: what version of FIRS has checksum FB9B8446A99B02F73488AB9A7DE4CBCA and grfid F1250005 ? ;)
17:33:48  <Yexo> "abc" + "def" works and results in "abcdef"
17:33:56  <andythenorth> Rubidium: :P
17:33:57  <andythenorth> no idea
17:34:05  <andythenorth> I might have just written the identifiers out longhand
17:34:18  <andythenorth> as they also have 'spritelayout_' etc
17:34:30  <andythenorth> spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof is not short :)
17:34:39  <andythenorth> ironworks_spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof is barely worse
17:35:15  <Yexo> THIS_ID is useful because it's used in some macros IIRC, dunno precesily
17:35:37  <Yexo> but I agree that writing it out in this case would make things clearer
17:35:58  <andythenorth> I assumed there was some object orientated magic using parameters
17:36:00  <planetmaker> Rubidium: 2635
17:36:09  <andythenorth> and that THIS_ID was equivalent to calling self() or this() or whatever
17:36:39  <andythenorth> I have been trying to figure out what the object / property hierarchy is :D
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17:36:57  <planetmaker>
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17:46:12  <andythenorth> hmm
17:46:25  <andythenorth> so switching tile action 2s was the *old* way to do animation
17:46:40  <andythenorth> presumably now the correct way is to put realsprites into a register?
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17:48:13  <planetmaker> it's easier to do that via registers, yes
17:48:20  <planetmaker> as you then can say:
17:48:28  <planetmaker> sprite: somespriteset(number)
17:48:53  <planetmaker> and only use one layout statement and get sprites directly there via parameter
17:49:02  <planetmaker> which for example could be the animation_frame directly
17:50:20  <Yexo> andythenorth: there is no correct or wrong way for it
17:50:33  <Yexo> switchting tile action2s is still valid
17:50:44  <andythenorth> clunky though :)
17:50:48  <Yexo> depending on how exactly you code it, doing it via registers might be easier and/or less code
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18:09:33  <Hirundo> afaik just doing somespriteset(animation_frame) in the spritelayout should work
18:10:13  <andythenorth> and then handle animation_frame in the graphics?
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18:20:51  <andythenorth> so to animate a tile, do I need to substitute SPRITELAYOUT_FENCES_NORMAL with a custom layout?
18:23:59  * andythenorth hearts EZ
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18:42:01  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23460 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt czech.txt unfinished/urdu.txt):
18:42:01  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:42:01  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: czech - 42 changes by ReisRyos
18:42:01  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 33 changes by Tucalipe
18:42:01  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: urdu - 154 changes by haider
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19:27:15  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23461 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: handle a missing airport newgrf as graceful as possible by not crashing when loading such savegame or when an airport is removed
19:50:26  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23462 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airport.h station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: use AirportTileTableIterator in a few more places to make the code easier to read
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20:06:15  <Terkhen> hello
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20:24:43  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23463 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23461): unused variable
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20:45:02  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23464 /trunk/src/ (order_backup.cpp order_backup.h order_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#4876]: clear the backed up orders of a removed station as well, otherwise one could create orders to a station that was never in the original backupped orders. For example a road vehicle trying to go to a buoy.
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21:37:33  <andythenorth> hmm
21:37:53  <andythenorth> auto-replace is not very clever
21:38:04  <andythenorth> maybe we can upgrade that :P
21:38:56  <Rubidium> that's a common thought for more of the things the developer of autoreplace wrote
21:39:47  <Rubidium> though autoreplace can't be made much more clever without massive conceptual changes
21:40:07  <andythenorth> I am reading the code :P
21:40:35  <Rubidium> is the complexity already oozing out of all orifices?
21:40:53  <andythenorth> not sure yet
21:41:10  <andythenorth> where is GetBestFittingSubType hiding :P
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21:44:03  <Rubidium> vehicle_gui.cpp?
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21:45:06  <andythenorth> yup
21:46:00  * andythenorth wonders if the trailing parts of articulated RVs are just ignored by autoreplace
21:46:36  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23465 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#4827]: add 'find missing content online' button to 'load savegame' and 'find network game' windows
21:47:14  <frosch123> autoreplace works in whole vehicles
21:47:30  <frosch123> so, all rv are only one vehicle, articulated parts do not matter
21:47:56  <andythenorth> so if first vehicle has 0 capacity, subtype will be ignored?
21:48:45  <frosch123> hmm, might be an issue, yes
21:49:20  <frosch123> it should pick a part with cargo
21:49:26  <andythenorth> I should just put 1t capacity on first vehicle?
21:49:41  <frosch123> (autoreplace checks that the vehicle only carries one cargotype, and refuses to replace inconsistent vehicles)
21:53:59  <Terkhen> good night
21:54:13  <frosch123> andythenorth: <- does that improve it?
21:54:41  * andythenorth tests
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21:56:15  <planetmaker> good night
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22:00:12  <andythenorth> frosch123: :(
22:00:19  <andythenorth> no apparent improvement
22:00:33  <andythenorth> could be a problem with my trams
22:01:27  <frosch123> ah, i guess i need to do the same with the new vehicle
22:03:43  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23466 /trunk/src/ (core/math_func.hpp window.cpp): -Fix [FS#4871, FS#4874]: assertion triggered when resizing a window during ReInit by an amount that's not a multiple of the resize interval
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22:40:53  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23467 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Feature [FS#4827]: automatically close the online content window after confirming the download with 'ok'
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23:01:15  <frosch123> night
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23:06:59  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:58:17  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23468 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Feature [FS#4827]: when looking for missing content, automatically select it so you can easily start the download

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