Log for #openttd on 28th December 2011:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:15:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: here's a few colours for prussian wagons:
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00:16:09  <Elukka> that's useful, thanks
00:16:23  <Elukka> huh. and a real reference photo of a prussian 2 axle coach
00:16:25  <Elukka> haven't seen one before
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00:21:00  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- here's a few cargo wagons
00:23:11  <Terkhen> good night
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00:29:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: and something i noticed, the 10lu passenger wagon looks more spaced out in -> direction than in <- direction, can you check whether the graphics are wrong length, the template is wrong length, or openttd's drawing is wrong?
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00:36:56  <Elukka> ottd is drawing it wrong
00:37:09  <Elukka> i've noticed it too, it only appears in recent builds of cets
00:37:31  <Elukka> i tested r449 vs r272
00:37:37  <Elukka> r272 draws them correctly
00:37:43  <Elukka> i'm not sure on which build the bug appears
00:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> then it might be my slicing code, actually
00:38:15  <Eddi|zuHause> ok. i'll debug that later...
00:38:24  <Eddi|zuHause> now i know at least where to look :)
00:39:14  <Elukka> heh
00:39:15  <Elukka>
00:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: and the other thing i noticed, in \ and / view, the alignment of the wagons seems to mismatch the alignment of the engines (compared to the rails)
00:44:38  <Elukka> hmm, yes
00:44:53  <Elukka> there's a slight error with the coaches but the goods cars seem to be correct
00:45:16  <Eddi|zuHause> (or is that my alignment code again?)
00:45:42  <Elukka> dunno
00:45:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess i need to review all offsets once more
00:46:14  <Elukka> i might not have paid enough attention to it, i just went by oberhÃŒmer's fix of my initial sprites
00:46:43  <Eddi|zuHause> grml... my parameter code doesn't work... need to move it after the grf block because the gui-parameter is not declared yet
00:51:07  <Elukka> what do you think, is bavarian green or passenger green from the color templates more appropriate for the early d-zug coaches?
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00:52:27  <Phrewfuf> hi
00:52:45  <Phrewfuf> i need some help setting up a openttd dedicated server
00:53:07  <Phrewfuf> i have a debian server and some windows clients
00:53:31  <Phrewfuf> when i start the server on the debian machine and try to connect from the clients, i get a version mismatch error. how can i fix this`?
00:53:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: i think the "passenger green" is later
00:53:58  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure though
00:55:27  <Phrewfuf> btw the server instance was installed vie apt-get
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00:57:16  <Elukka> hmm. any idea whether the roofs would be a flat or metallic grey?
00:57:25  <Elukka> the models are metallic but they're also later DRG
00:59:44  <Elukka> hmm... or brown
00:59:53  <Elukka> some other bavarian coaches have brown roofs
01:00:00  <Elukka> they look distinctly older though
01:01:47  <Elukka> okay, going by models metallic seems the most likely
01:04:35  <fjb|tab> Phrewfuf: Use the same version for the server and all clients.
01:06:17  <Phrewfuf> fjb|tab: why does apt-get install an old version?
01:07:03  <fjb|tab> Ask the maintainer of your distribution.
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01:11:10  <Phrewfuf> ok now i thnk openttd is screwing with me
01:11:27  <Phrewfuf> i'm trying to run it in dedicated mode and its failing to find a graphics set
01:12:26  <Yexo> the base graphics set contains more than just graphics
01:12:37  <Yexo> so you still need either the grfs from the original cdrom or opengfx
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01:16:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: in the prussian railways, the switch to silver roof colour was around 1900, so the express cars would definitely be afterwards
01:16:28  <Elukka> alright
01:17:02  <Elukka> did the prussians use silver? all i've seen is flat grey
01:17:06  <Elukka> the bavarians seem to have, though
01:17:18  <Elukka> hmm. need to make the roof slightly blue to make it look metallic
01:18:01  <Eddi|zuHause> "silver" means "grey-white", not necessarily actual silver
01:20:28  <Elukka> ah
01:23:54  <Phrewfuf> Yexo: i placed opengfx into ~/.openttd/baseset and it still cant find it
01:24:14  <Phrewfuf> of course the ~ of the user that will run the server
01:24:23  <Yexo> Phrewfuf: where did you download opengfx? What kind of file is it?
01:24:33  <Yexo> and which version of openttd are you running?
01:24:41  <Phrewfuf> it was a zip file...i unpacked it
01:24:51  <Yexo> that's good :)
01:25:13  <Yexo> and it was the zip file with the final grfs, not a source package?
01:25:45  <Phrewfuf> binary files, yes
01:25:53  <Phrewfuf> got them from
01:26:15  <Phrewfuf> aswell as the other two...sfx and mxs
01:26:28  <Yexo> ok, and the version of openttd?
01:26:52  <Phrewfuf> if the .deb-file got installed correctly, its the last stable..1.1.4
01:27:19  <Yexo> you need to put opengfx in ~/.openttd/data/ for openttd 1.1, ~/.openttd/baseset is only supported by 1.2+
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01:31:09  <Phrewfuf> ok now the server is running, but i cant connect to it
01:31:26  <Phrewfuf> though it is logging queries from the client
01:32:18  <Phrewfuf> oh wait...found the problem...
01:32:32  <Phrewfuf> config is wrong
01:32:33  <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: initial late night sketch
01:32:33  <Elukka>
01:32:36  <Phrewfuf> thanks for the help
01:33:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the doors need to be more prominent
01:33:33  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. darker
01:34:18  <Elukka> true
01:34:21  <Elukka> i'll look into it tomorrow
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01:50:02  <Eddi|zuHause> prussian express wagons:
01:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ca. 1907 prussia switched from green/green/brown/gray to unified green for the classes
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02:22:37  <Elukka> those look just like the coach i'm drawing except the roof has that ridge
02:22:50  <Elukka> the clerestory windows
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05:09:36  <winner10> does anyone know how to record OPENTTD?
05:10:52  <winner10> seriously does anyone know i cant seem to find a forum thread about it
05:11:01  <winner10> if i could get a link to a thread bout it that would be nice
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08:43:22  <andythenorth> morning
08:46:00  <Rubidium> oh shoot... is it morning already? ;)
08:46:28  <Terkhen> good morning
08:46:35  <Terkhen> sadly yes :)
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09:52:43  <peter1138> cities in motion... heh
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09:53:38  <jonty-comp> it's like openttd, only without any of the things that make openttd good
09:53:58  <peter1138> pretty graphics but otherwise really limited
09:54:03  <peter1138> 4 whole cities?
09:54:13  <peter1138> over _30_ different vehicles...
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09:56:07  <jonty-comp> but! it has a limited form of passenger destinations
09:56:21  <jonty-comp> in so far as "person from red area will go to...anywhere in blue area"
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09:56:52  <peter1138> gosh
09:57:46  <andythenorth> maybe that's the solution to YACD :P
09:58:02  <andythenorth> set each tile to have 1 of 16 colours
09:58:04  <peter1138> not really
09:58:18  <andythenorth> route cargo packets to any tile that is the right colour :P
09:58:56  <peter1138> heh, garry's mod, £1.49
09:59:12  <jonty-comp> too bad i've already owned it for 5 years
09:59:21  <jonty-comp> and not played it for 2 :p
10:00:11  <peter1138> all looks a bit pointless
10:01:18  <jonty-comp> i just used to dick about with the space station mod
10:01:30  <jonty-comp> in fact, i should think that gun i textured is still in there
10:01:41  <jonty-comp> most contribution i've ever made to a community project :P
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10:07:55  <andythenorth> hmm
10:08:01  <andythenorth> there's a mac version of CiM
10:08:17  <andythenorth> so...try a new game, or write newgrf?
10:09:07  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
10:09:25  <andythenorth> XOR
10:09:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
10:10:14  <andythenorth> £5.08
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10:12:47  <Eddi|zuHause> no
10:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... how does one do case-insensitive comparison in python?
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10:14:43  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently, string.lower()
10:16:44  <andythenorth> yup
10:17:51  <andythenorth> meh
10:17:57  <andythenorth> BANDIt is slow progress
10:18:26  <Rubidium> if the coding is slow, maybe make some zoomed in graphics? ;)
10:18:33  <andythenorth> coding is fast
10:18:36  <andythenorth> set design is slow
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10:21:20  <Wolf01> ho o/
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10:44:47  * andythenorth watches smokey and the bandit for inspiration
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10:47:29  <Wolf01> anybody wants to help me setting up the environment to build OTTD with VC100?
10:49:28  * Alberth does want to, but has less knowledge than the person asking for assistance
10:51:16  <Wolf01> seem I miss some libraries, but I added the path of the "useful" folder to the includes
10:52:01  <Rubidium> ah, we're slowly getting from the meta question to the actual question ;)
10:54:03  <Wolf01> vc++ -> linker -> general -> additional libraries wtf = myproject\ottd\useful\win32\libraries; it should be right, or I missed something?
10:54:37  <__ln__> not running VC++ in italian?
10:54:41  <Rubidium> the directx library I'd reckon
10:54:46  <Wolf01> yes italian
10:54:50  <__ln__> ok, good
10:55:09  <__ln__> though i doubt that has anything to do with the problem one way or another
10:56:07  <Wolf01> I was sure I had the dx library, I carry on the same folder since I was building on my old laptop
10:56:18  <Rubidium> but without the actual error message or the name of the missing libraries that's pure interjection
10:56:19  <Wolf01> I just update the ottduseful files
10:56:28  <Wolf01> unicode and zlib headers
10:57:17  <Rubidium> now I'm confused... are you missing the headers or the libraries?
10:57:50  <Wolf01> it says the headers, but it's all there
10:58:18  <Wolf01> I'll retry adding every folder I find
10:59:48  <Rubidium> well, only talked about adding the library folder, but you need to add the include folders to the additional includes as well (the one in shared/include)
11:00:58  <Wolf01> just did it, same problem
11:01:17  <Rubidium> then I have no clue
11:02:53  <Terkhen> Wolf01: I usually follow the tutorial for MSVC 2008 except the "add libraries" part
11:03:09  <Terkhen> to add the libraries permanently, you need to open a project (any project)
11:04:16  <Terkhen> go to the property manager (there are some tabs at the lower left corner)
11:04:33  <Wolf01> Yes I'm doing so, but in the tools->options-<project  and solutions it says this way of adding libraries is deprecate
11:04:39  <Terkhen> there you will find Microsoft.Cpp.Win32.user
11:04:46  <Wolf01> so I tried to load them for the project
11:04:53  <Terkhen> (there is a x64 equivalent too)
11:05:22  <Terkhen> if you acess the properties of Microsoft.Cpp.Win32.user and add your libraries / headers there, they are always used in all of your projects
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11:07:25  <mariux> i cant find a mirror for 1.2.0-beta1 for windows, can anyone help me out?
11:07:28  <mariux> since the website is down
11:07:31  <Terkhen> Wolf01: <-- you can also check this... I think that he never finished it
11:07:41  <Terkhen> mariux: the website works fine for me
11:07:58  <mariux> its down here and have been so for 30+ min
11:08:37  <Yexo> mariux: the website is definitely not down
11:08:42  <Terkhen> mariux: <-- try this, it will tell you if a website is down for real or only for you
11:08:44  <Wolf01> thank you, I'll give it a look
11:08:46  <Yexo> if it doesn't work for you it's something at your (or your ISPs) end
11:08:56  <Terkhen> regarding mirrors... try
11:09:32  <mariux> thanks
11:09:47  <mariux> maybe it is a problem with this unblock me thing  am using
11:09:51  <Terkhen> bbl
11:10:05  <mariux> that mirror was is also down for me :P
11:10:40  <Yexo> try
11:10:54  <mariux> thanks :D
11:14:28  <Wolf01> yay, compiling
11:14:51  <Wolf01> I was just adding the libraries in the wrong place
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12:08:13  * Zuu realizes that he have swaped delete and backspace the other day when he had to pull out those keys to clean them of some beer that accidently got on the keyboard. :-)
12:10:35  <TrueBrain> do you still look at your keyboard?
12:10:46  <TrueBrain> I switched a few keys months ago, and I only found out when my roommate tried to type on it :P
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12:26:55  <Eddi|zuHause> how can that be? backspace is twice as big as delete :=)
12:28:08  <appe> ..on most keyboards.
12:28:18  <appe> backspace usually is, even on the smallest keyboards.
12:28:20  <appe> though
12:32:06  <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are variant keyboard layouts where the return key is bigger, and the key next to return is put next to backspace instead
12:32:17  <Eddi|zuHause> that's # on german keyboards
12:38:41  <appe> ah
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13:14:49  <Zuu> TrueBrain: I don't generally look on my keyboard. Most keys don't to what the label says anyways. (qwerty labels and svorak behaviour)
13:18:31  <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: On my keyboard backspace and delete have the same size althoug slighly different angle of the surface.
13:20:24  <Zuu> as a hint they are both located at left thumb :-)
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13:54:09  <Belugas> hello
13:56:46  <Alberth> Hello sir B
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14:18:32  <Belugas> hello 2u,2 uncle albert :)
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15:45:48  <burtybob> I'm trying to add to the admin network so that it sends the expenses breakdown. I've done that but is there anyway to make it server? As when trying to connect with a vanilla copy I get protocol error. Presumbly because I've modified the admin packet to send more data.
15:49:23  <Eddi|zuHause> and now we're supposed to guess your modifications to help you fixing it?
15:51:10  <Eddi|zuHause> you can output custom data to the admin port by running a game script and sending it as a JSON object
15:51:47  <Eddi|zuHause> (in trunk/1.2.0-beta1, not in 1.1.4)
15:52:22  <burtybob> p->Send_uint64(company->yearly_expenses[0][EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION]); That line just before the sendpacket call in the send company economy function in the network admin.cpp file.
15:52:39  <burtybob> Do you have a link to documentation regarding the game scripts please?
15:52:58  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a thread in the forum
15:53:12  <burtybob> ok, thanks
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16:43:56  <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: any suggestions?
16:43:56  <Elukka>
16:45:44  <Elukka> i like the side view, not so much the diagonal
16:54:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the windows might be slightly too big
16:54:12  <Eddi|zuHause> and the roof too smooth
16:55:44  <peter1138> greeble it
17:03:33  <Elukka> i could make the bigger windows 2x2 too
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17:03:55  <Elukka> don't know about the roof... there seem to be multiple types
17:04:33  <Elukka> the drawing you linked it doesn't seem to be smooth, in the models it's smooth but it has those... thingies on top at regular intervals
17:05:34  <Eddi|zuHause> with the big windows it looks too modern
17:12:21  <Elukka> wish i had more pixels to work with :(
17:12:23  <TrueBrain> DorpsGek: bark
17:12:28  <TrueBrain> hmm
17:12:46  <Elukka>
17:12:46  <TrueBrain> stupid connections :(
17:12:53  <Elukka> window tweaks, better looking variant of the roof
17:12:56  <DorpsGek> bark
17:13:05  <TrueBrain> terrible slow :(
17:16:22  <Eddi|zuHause> aye
17:17:16  <Eddi|zuHause> ship it! :)
17:22:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: in the \ view the signs below the windows are too big, and the doors should be showing that they are further inside. the connection between the wagons should probably be narrower
17:28:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23680 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix [FS#4915]: prevent removal of the (AI) company the local player is in
17:28:28  <Elukka> the signs are 1 px but they kinda blend in with the windows... gotta try something else with them
17:28:31  <Elukka> agreed on the gangways
17:29:11  <Elukka> the window color tends to blend in with this particular green too - the \ windows are brighter than they 'should' be because otherwise it's a mushy mess
17:29:27  <Eddi|zuHause> that's alright, i suppose
17:29:55  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23681 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4914]: vehicle numbers got misaccounted when autoreplacing failed due to length checks
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18:17:37  <Joe> Hi all, can somebody help me a moment to get started adding further translatiosn to the OTTD-Wiki?
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18:18:47  <insulfrog> and what language are you translating to?
18:18:55  <ZirconiumX> Hello everyone, hope you all had a merry Xmas (those who celebrate it)!
18:19:16  <Joe> german
18:19:25  <insulfrog> I do mr ZirconiumX :)
18:19:27  <Eddi|zuHause> bah! humbug!
18:19:42  * insulfrog shoots Eddi :p
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18:20:13  * ZirconiumX scolds insulfrog for sounding like a set of model railway points
18:20:32  <insulfrog> that's where exactly the name came from :)
18:21:28  <ZirconiumX> Glad we share a common interest
18:21:32  <Joe> my trouble is that I never worked on a wiki so far, I see the style guide and so on but was wondering whether they are needed for just translating existing articles or if there is a way to 'copy' the english article and translate to german on the fly
18:22:44  <Joe> sorry if other noobs had this question prior already. But after having translated the hotkey reference sheet I wanna do more within my abilities.
18:23:03  <insulfrog> you could babelfish but I am not sure how accurate it is though
18:23:31  <ZirconiumX> Google translate
18:23:31  <Joe> the translating itself is no problem as I am fluent with both languages
18:23:34  <ZirconiumX> Wins
18:23:34  <ZirconiumX>
18:24:15  <Joe> just do not want to have to start each from scratch with copying pictures from the previous articles and so on
18:24:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Joe: just click "edit" and copy the contents
18:24:49  <Terkhen> look at how it was done with other translated articles
18:24:53  * Terkhen has no idea about wiki either
18:25:03  <Joe> THX eddi, will try out and come back crying if I can not get it done. ;)
18:28:28  <planetmaker> ZirconiumX: using google translate results for creating a 'translated' website is very bad and must not be done - especially as google allows to do that on the fly
18:29:01  <insulfrog> translation tools are fine but accuracy still could remain a problem (please excuse me if I sound skeptic)
18:29:35  <planetmaker> Joe: I'd copy the "source" of the English page (i.e. open it as 'edit' and copy it) and then create the new page, paste the original one and hand-translate the text
18:29:36  <ZirconiumX> @planetmaker Sorry
18:29:40  <planetmaker> that's how I'd do it
18:30:36  <Joe> THX to you too planetmaker, just realized that I should start by creating an account... (StupidMe)
18:30:39  <planetmaker> but don't just copy the English and then... create a 'German' page with English text. I've seen such on the wiki for some other language, too... that's quite stupid
18:30:44  <planetmaker> haha, yes :-)
18:30:58  <planetmaker> an account is helpful
18:34:55  <Zuu> Hmm, half of the translations that I've received for TransportGoals uses something else than UTF8. :-(
18:35:25  <Zuu> And I though I was too clear about it.
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18:35:45  <SpComb> iconv
18:35:55  <SpComb> and encodings are hard
18:37:33  <Terkhen> Zuu: sorry, I forgot
18:37:34  <Zuu> Yep, I have to use iconv, just have to figure out which encoding to go from.
18:37:43  <Terkhen> I reuploaded the spanish translation in UTF-8
18:37:48  <Zuu> Terkhen: Thanks
18:37:56  <planetmaker> Zuu: you can be as clear as you want about that. People have no clue about encoding
18:38:02  <planetmaker> they just use what their editor uses
18:38:05  <Zuu> Then I only have to figure out which encoding the french translation is in.
18:38:55  <Rubidium> usually iso8859-15
18:40:39  <valhallasw> or windows-1252, but they are the same for most characters
18:40:49  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23682 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt serbian.txt):
18:40:49  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:40:49  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 changes by arnau
18:40:49  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: serbian - 11 changes by etran
18:40:55  <Zuu> Could be the windows1252 too. At least csv files from excel tend to use windows1252.
18:47:32  <__ln__> indeed, 8859-15 is rare, 1252 is common.
18:48:57  <valhallasw> 8859-15 is/was used on linux, 1252 on windows
18:49:22  <valhallasw> (for some reason, all french linux computers I've used used 8859-15 instead of utf-8)
18:51:42  <__ln__> valhallasw: yes, that's what i said, is/was used on linux => rare. :)
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18:58:28  <Joe> planetmaker: guess I should save the translation file as UTF-8, right?
18:58:38  <planetmaker> file?
18:58:54  <planetmaker> translating wikis does not require use of any files... ?
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18:59:54  <Joe> saving on my desktop so I can work on translations on the go without needing internet access. Trust that I will try out everything in the sandbox before uploading/adding to the wiki. ;)
19:02:40  <planetmaker> is an internet connection a problem?
19:03:07  <planetmaker> I mean you're free to work as it suits you. I'd just be surprised to see wiki work done offline beforehand
19:03:10  <Joe> when I am on the bus or subway on my way to work: yes
19:03:13  <Joe> at home: no
19:03:30  <planetmaker> utf-8 would be the suitable encoding, I guess, yes
19:03:50  <planetmaker> fair enough during travel :-)
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19:06:56  <Eddi|zuHause> engines are weird... weight is usually given without tender, but length with tender...
19:09:26  <insulfrog> well, cyas
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19:26:41  <Belugas> and it keeps on snowing
19:27:58  <Eddi|zuHause> not here...
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19:30:03  <andythenorth> hola
19:30:19  <andythenorth> is roadtypes actually hard to do?  Or is it just tiresome?
19:30:35  <andythenorth> (apropros of suggestions forum)
19:30:36  * Belugas pushes some flakes toward Eddi|zuHause
19:30:44  <Belugas> hallo andythenorth
19:31:00  <Belugas> dunno 'bout your question, never tried it
19:31:03  <andythenorth> bonsoir Belugas
19:31:35  <andythenorth> when I started looking at it, it didn't look insanely, bafflingly hard
19:31:47  <andythenorth> but as a 'my first C++ project' I didn't get very far :P
19:31:48  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it would mostly be adapting the railtype code
19:32:15  <Eddi|zuHause> the "problem" is that there are more than one roadtype on one tile
19:32:36  <andythenorth> we had a solution for that
19:32:42  <andythenorth> only two types allowed
19:32:51  <andythenorth> and only one catenary type gets drawn
19:32:52  <andythenorth> iirc
19:33:16  <TrueBrain> enough _m bits available?
19:33:21  <andythenorth> if you want 'road with tram tracks' crossing 'dirt road with trolley power for dump trucks'
19:33:28  <andythenorth> then you need a type 'road with tram tracks'
19:33:36  <andythenorth> you can't composite 'road' + 'tram tracks'
19:33:43  <andythenorth> due to lack of bits
19:34:03  <andythenorth> but that seemed very acceptable to me
19:34:19  <andythenorth> I got as far as shuffling some roadworks _m bits, then got stuck in savegame code :P
19:34:22  <andythenorth> so not very far
19:35:15  <TrueBrain> ugh, Steam servers are SLOW. No surprise with all the free stuff going on :(
19:38:18  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but only 2 types is really limiting
19:38:34  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: dunno what to say :)
19:38:37  <andythenorth> new map array?
19:38:51  <andythenorth> when it was discussed, we tried to make 3 fit into 2
19:39:05  <andythenorth> bit unfortunately we couldn't change how maths works :P
19:39:14  <andythenorth> I have a bit of spec....somewhere
19:39:18  <TrueBrain> fail on your part :D
19:40:08  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's not just 2 types.  It's as many horrible buy menu combos as the roadtpe grf author has chosen to provide....
19:40:20  <andythenorth> it's not so different to railtypes anyway
19:40:38  <andythenorth> '200km / h electrified railway also with third rail and 17t axle load' :P
19:40:55  <andythenorth> is not much different to 'paved road, 30km / h with tram tracks and trolley poles'
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19:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but if you want to encode "subway" into it, then you easily run out
19:43:16  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23683 /trunk/src/ (4 files):
19:43:16  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4912]-ish: when fitting another engine the cargo capacity of wagons
19:43:16  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: could become lower, causing them to contain more than they should. This caused
19:43:16  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: the cargo transfer from the replaced parts to put even more stuff in the already
19:43:16  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: full wagon. Prevent this from happening by reducing the amount of cargo in the
19:43:17  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: vehicle to the capacity when moving vehicles/wagons around, or when
19:43:19  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: autoreplacing
19:44:27  <Rubidium> don't forget to encode the safety systems in the rail type
19:44:35  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 'paved road, 30km/h with tram tracks and trolley poles, plus subway with third rail' :P
19:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then you run out of 16 roadtypes
19:45:03  <andythenorth> it's a harsh life :)
19:45:18  <andythenorth> so extend number of types?
19:46:05  <andythenorth> also - per rack rail discussion :)
19:48:37  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so it's (a) extend map array (b) extend number of possible roadtypes (currently three) to > 16 or (c) do nothing
19:48:37  <andythenorth> ?
19:49:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
19:49:17  <Rubidium> three possible road types?
19:53:50  <andythenorth> apparently
19:54:16  <Rubidium> well, road, tram and railroad?
19:54:39  <andythenorth> isn't it marked as HWAY in the source?
19:54:43  <andythenorth> for hysterical raisins?
19:54:58  <andythenorth> I don't mean three per tile
19:56:21  <andythenorth> yup, HWAY - only in comments though
20:02:02  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23684 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp road_func.h): -Cleanup: let the highway take the highway
20:02:10  <Rubidium> what HWAY comments? ;)
20:02:13  <andythenorth> he
20:02:26  <TrueBrain> one of the futeares that got never implemented?:P
20:02:31  <TrueBrain> features
20:02:37  <andythenorth> did that comment have a 'use by' date on it?
20:03:13  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: futeares is more accurate
20:03:23  <TrueBrain> guess
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20:04:08  <Rubidium> yep, highway got trashed in favour of having 2 of 16 route types on a tile instead of 3 (of 3)
20:05:09  <andythenorth> hmm
20:05:22  <andythenorth> 3 of 3 might have been sufficient :)
20:05:24  <andythenorth> but nvm
20:07:58  <peter1138> and 4 railtypes were too...
20:09:30  <andythenorth> and 640KB
20:09:46  <TrueBrain> and Windows 3.11
20:10:18  <andythenorth> is it weird if truck capacity gets large, then smaller?
20:10:23  <andythenorth> over time
20:10:27  <andythenorth> not per vehicle :P
20:11:07  <andythenorth> in the 1920s / 1930s trucks in the US weren't much regulated
20:11:16  <Zuu> Some users might complain. But it might give interesting gameplay situations.
20:11:37  <andythenorth> rapid technological improvement made for some very big powerful trucks
20:11:44  <andythenorth> then they got legislated :)
20:17:21  <vargadanis> it is sooo hard to make a working station
20:19:00  <andythenorth> compare and
20:19:18  <andythenorth> 1930s (restricted) and 1920s (unrestricted)
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21:33:31  <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: what do you think?
21:33:32  <Elukka>
21:33:52  <Elukka> i wanna get the side and diagonal views done before i start working with the other ones to save me some pain later
21:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> the \ view looks somewhat off
21:34:44  <Elukka> in what way?
21:35:32  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: did the railtype labels discussion consider mixed gauge?
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21:36:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's irrelevant as there won't ever be vehicles for mixed gauge. so the track set offering it can freely make up a lable
21:37:07  <andythenorth> ok
21:37:36  <Eddi|zuHause> (and set powered/compatible accordingly)
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22:30:04  <andythenorth> hmm
22:30:07  <andythenorth> trucks
22:30:50  <andythenorth> not much use in game (for most cargos) until they can carry about 20t
22:31:05  <andythenorth> but the upper limit on cargo is about 35t for highway trucks
22:31:31  <andythenorth> so the usual 'bigger' model progression just doesn't work
22:32:20  <Hirundo> progress in power/top speed instead?
22:32:21  <andythenorth> or at least, spacing it out over 50 years or so is hard
22:32:25  <andythenorth> yup
22:32:37  <andythenorth> they'll get to high weights quickly
22:32:41  <andythenorth> then as you say
22:33:23  <Hirundo> as capacity per month = power * speed (roughly)
22:33:33  <andythenorth> yup
22:34:20  <Hirundo> for realism, running (fuel) costs should rise through the years for all trucks, but newer ones should be more efficient
22:34:57  <andythenorth> +1
22:35:33  <Mek> the things you do when you have lots of free time during christmas holidays... (don't mind the uglyness, I'm not a graphics person :) )
22:36:17  <Elukka> heh
22:36:19  <Hirundo> :o
22:36:37  <Elukka> what exactly are we looking at? is it actually running openttd in a different graphics engine?
22:37:01  <Mek> yeah, it is actually openttd running with an opengl real 3d graphics engine
22:39:16  <Elukka> :o
22:40:46  <Elukka> how functional is the game on it?
22:41:01  <Elukka> keep working on it and it could be the best thing in openttd since... well, openttd itself
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22:41:10  <Elukka> prettier graphics for it can always come later
22:45:50  <Elukka> hey, you know what'd be a nice thing?
22:46:08  <Elukka> if you could lock it to an isometric (or whatever projection openttd uses) projection and make it load existing sprites
22:46:25  <Elukka> we could see how much faster the game would be if the graphics were done on the gpu
22:46:44  <Elukka> that's how a bunch of modern 2D games do it; flat textures and locked camera on a 3D engine
22:46:55  <Elukka> it'd be immensely useful to free up cpu resources to other purposes
22:49:31  <Mek> yeah... shouldn't be too hard (although completely different from what I'm currently doing of course)
22:50:27  <Elukka> well, i'd do that first, but it's your project
22:50:56  <Elukka> wouldn't require new art assets and would be immediately useful
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23:01:01  <andythenorth> bed time
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23:02:39  <Elukka> it's also something that people have said would be extremely hard to do but you seem to have gone a good way towards it :P
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