Log for #openttd on 31st January 2012:
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00:03:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: dunno what that error means, never seen that before
00:04:07  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what's your python version?
00:04:20  <Eddi|zuHause> 2.7-ish
00:05:09  <andythenorth> hmm
00:05:12  <andythenorth> seems to be ply
00:05:24  <andythenorth> "The p_error(p) rule is defined to catch syntax errors. See the error handling section below for more detail."
00:05:27  <andythenorth>
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00:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause> that one's irrelavnt
00:05:56  <Eddi|zuHause> can you do the following
00:06:05  <Eddi|zuHause> "python -i scripts/"
00:06:10  <Eddi|zuHause> "import pdb"
00:06:16  <Eddi|zuHause> ""
00:06:30  <Eddi|zuHause> "p key"
00:06:39  <andythenorth> yup
00:06:40  <Eddi|zuHause> "p tables.table[key]"
00:06:59  <andythenorth> yup
00:07:42  <andythenorth> done?
00:07:46  <andythenorth> I can paste...
00:07:50  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
00:08:16  <andythenorth> nice number:
00:08:38  <Eddi|zuHause> you skipped one :)
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00:09:39  * andythenorth is looking for a missing ''
00:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see anything that could be wrong there
00:11:00  <andythenorth> me neither
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00:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure where the "":"" comes from, though
00:14:59  <andythenorth> I've not seen these structures before
00:15:08  <andythenorth> it's like a dict with prefixes on the keys?
00:16:16  <Eddi|zuHause> u means unicode
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00:16:55  <Eddi|zuHause> there's also r ("raw", don't process escapes)
00:16:58  <andythenorth> k
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00:18:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it's easier to just write u"ö" instead of doing all kinds of conversion stuff
00:18:40  <andythenorth> yup
00:20:43  <Eddi|zuHause> "ö" varies depending on locale/encoding, while u"ö" always results in the same string, no matter what your encoding is
00:21:13  <Rhamphoryncus> "ö" is actually sort of a bug.  It should never have been allowed by the language
00:21:35  <andythenorth> yup, the python cms I use, we often encode in unicode, otherwise sadness occurs
00:23:17  <Rhamphoryncus> It's a good idea to explicitly mark each file as utf-8 too
00:23:48  <Eddi|zuHause> well, python rejects the file if no encoding is stated
00:24:32  <Rhamphoryncus> hrm.  Next time I'll spend more than 30 seconds checking my facts. ;)
00:24:35  <Rhamphoryncus> (No I won't.)
00:25:34  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if I remove the value {...} from that structure, I don't get a syntax error from it
00:25:40  <andythenorth> but I don't know if that's the issue
00:26:26  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can you check, in change the "value" into u"value"?
00:27:46  <andythenorth> also the first key is an empty string, is that allowed?
00:28:02  <Eddi|zuHause> "it never complained before"
00:28:28  <Eddi|zuHause> some keys are not identifier-able, that never stopped it before either
00:28:53  <andythenorth> my python is 2.6
00:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause> "values" is actually a self-reference
00:29:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it's kind of important that it is
00:31:54  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I need to go to sleep :)
00:32:01  <andythenorth> maybe this is only an issue for me?
00:32:14  <andythenorth> devzone builds cets ok?
00:32:16  <Rhamphoryncus> Got a link so I can look at it?
00:32:45  <Rhamphoryncus> or pastebin
00:32:54  <andythenorth>
00:33:53  <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: my python doesn't like the dict here:
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00:34:39  <andythenorth> o/ Snail_
00:34:52  <Snail_> hey there
00:35:42  <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: specifically my python is unhappy with 'values' : {....}
00:36:00  <Rhamphoryncus> You're extracting it in to keyword arguments?
00:37:21  <Rhamphoryncus> And you already have a keyword argument named values
00:37:21  <andythenorth> looks like it: process(key, **tables.table[key])
00:37:43  <Mazur> Maybe you should feed i eggs or mice, instead.
00:37:54  <Mazur> s/ i / it /
00:37:55  <Rhamphoryncus> solution: don't pass the dict as keyword arguments when it's arbitrary like that
00:38:02  <Rhamphoryncus> So remove the ** on the call and in the functions
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00:38:24  <Rhamphoryncus> hrm
00:39:01  * Rhamphoryncus mentions that 30 seconds thing again ;)
00:39:48  * andythenorth -> bed
00:39:54  <andythenorth> good night
00:39:56  <Rhamphoryncus> I wouldn't use unicode for a variable name, not in 2.x
00:40:31  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if it's bugging me enough tomorrow, I might install python 2.7 and see what happens
00:40:49  <andythenorth> if I can be bothered to revisit the fun of having multiple python versions :o
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00:41:49  <Rhamphoryncus> I used to have tons, but ubuntu removed the really old ones on me.  Something about no longer patching security flaws ;)
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01:10:12  <Sputnik> Hi guys
01:10:43  <Sputnik> Is anyone here?
01:13:49  <Rhamphoryncus> Just us figments of your imagination
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01:31:05  * Mazur is over there, in a box.
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01:36:44  * Rhamphoryncus attempts to decipher the infamous presignal >.>
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01:41:15  <whsck> Currently trying to fix a Desync issue and the host used '-ddesync=3',however when I desync no error message is being displayed, whats up with that!? - Shall I still give the save files asked by someone in my bug report?
01:41:30  <Rhamphoryncus> Someone needs to make a priority merge example savegame, then include it with openttd.  That way we're not stuck on pictures of incomplete examples
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02:06:12  <Rhamphoryncus> It seems as if the pathing signals, rather than going when it can get to the next signal, only go when the signal after that is free
02:09:11  <Rhamphoryncus> Or they wait for the signal right ahead of them to be free, only to take that chance to switch to the other track
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02:33:52  <whsck> Did anyone see my question from earlier? I d/c'd from chat
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02:40:35  <Rhamphoryncus> OMG, I actually got combo signals to work :P
02:40:40  <Rhamphoryncus> whsck: I did see it
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02:42:57  <Rhamphoryncus> Took a total of 9 signals to let two tracks swap without blocking either
02:46:20  <whsck> Hello
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03:19:53  <__ln__> heureka, 1+1*2 = 3, not 2
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03:42:46  * Rhamphoryncus discovers there's a car replacement screen too, not just engine replacement >.>
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05:44:51  <Sputnik> hi everyone
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06:48:48  <Rubidium> whsck: with -ddesync the desync logs are written directly to save/autosave/commands-out.log
06:50:38  <Rhamphoryncus> heya Rubidium
07:01:01  <whsck> Okay, I'll just add it to my bug report but i think its been closed
07:01:33  <Rubidium> if it's FS#5030, then yes that has been closed
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07:02:47  <Rubidium> as it's a duplicate of another bug that has been fixed last thursday
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07:33:15  <Rhamphoryncus> Isn't that always the case? :)
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07:44:03  <whsck> Which report did you say was close 0800?
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07:56:05  <whsck> Was FS#5030 that was closed ~ Requested it to be open though
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08:09:34  <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: Have you looked at my patch?
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08:15:14  <Rhamphoryncus> A question for the more experienced players: will selecting slower engines, so that they're all the same speed (and not whatever their wagons allow), produce less congestion?
08:17:17  <Rhamphoryncus> otoh, it'd reduce my station ratings
08:23:55  <Eddi|zuHause> if you're crazy enough, you can make a fully timetabled network :)
08:26:09  <Rhamphoryncus> I'd have to make a spreadsheet, pause the game, and apply a start date to every single vehicle
08:26:25  <Eddi|zuHause> suggestion: when autofilling a timetable, record not only the time but also the distance and average speed. then when editing one, recalculate one of the other two to keep it consistent
08:27:09  <Elukka> is there any way to use autofilled timetables without continually micromanaging every train?
08:27:38  <Rhamphoryncus> my plan for a timetable is to calculate a rolling average of the minimum timing, then present it to the user so they can use it when tweaking
08:27:42  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: timetables are seriously underdeveloped
08:27:48  <Rhamphoryncus> Elukka: not currently.  I'm working on yet another patch.
08:27:54  <Elukka> i see
08:28:22  <Elukka> i'd like something that kept trains (and while we're at it, road vehicles) from all bunching up at one end of the line
08:28:43  <Rhamphoryncus> Yup.  Two goals: stop clumping and make it fun
08:28:59  <Elukka> but dealing manually with timetables is a bit much
08:29:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: that is possible currently, but quite extensive to set up and may easily break
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08:30:50  <Rhamphoryncus> More aspects to my plan are to automatically swap timings when one vehicle arrives before another as well as having an easier way of respacing the vehicles when you add or remove one
08:31:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: swapping should be easy, since you have an ordered linked list
08:31:49  <Rhamphoryncus> The latter might be part of a broader "route management" window.  Have to see how amenable the devs are to my ideas.
08:32:02  <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: conceptually trivial.  Turns out navigating the code is the biggest hurdle
08:32:04  <Eddi|zuHause> just make sure the next_shared/prev_shared are in the order of the start dates
08:32:52  <Rhamphoryncus> My previous plan was to make next_shared/prev_shared cyclic, but that breaks saving/loading which accesses them directly (rather than through NextShared/PreviousShared
08:33:23  <Rhamphoryncus> Next issue I've found is timetable_start seems to have nothing to do with maintaining the timing.  Rather, lateness_counter does it.
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08:33:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: you should be able to achieve that without changing next_shared
08:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause> just make NextShared return the first item if it's the last
08:34:12  <Rhamphoryncus> That'd break everything else that uses it :)
08:34:34  <Rhamphoryncus> I'm just going to embed that logic in the function that does the swapping.  Not too much trouble really.
08:35:17  <Eddi|zuHause> cyclic links are non-trivially to handle, if you have existing code ;)
08:35:28  <Rhamphoryncus> heh
08:35:58  <Rhamphoryncus> The real problem atm is lateness_counter.  I haven't gotten my head around what exact logic to apply to it.
08:37:08  <Eddi|zuHause> if (arrive at first station) lateness_counter += other_start_date-my_start_date;
08:37:11  <Eddi|zuHause> or something
08:37:48  <Rhamphoryncus> That's the end result
08:38:00  <Rhamphoryncus> But first I need to figure out if I am ahead of them :)
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08:39:07  <Eddi|zuHause> hm. yeah. there's a formula for that, but it's really too early :)
08:39:18  <Rhamphoryncus> hehehe
08:40:01  <Rhamphoryncus> two cases to handle: previous vehicle is heading to my station and previous vehicle is loading at the previous station.  (Any further back and I would have swapped when I arrived at the previous station.)
08:42:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i would only handle this if it already left the previous station
08:43:17  <Rhamphoryncus> I don't think that's right but I can't tell you why ;)
08:43:52  <Rhamphoryncus> However, I should definitely do heading to my station first, worry about the other case later.
08:44:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: imho this swapping check should be run every time a vehicle arrives at the first station
08:45:13  <Rhamphoryncus> afaik there is no first station once the schedule is going
08:45:25  <Rhamphoryncus> And that would be much less responsive if a vehicle breaks down and is overtaken by another
08:46:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: but that might make vehicles use timetable-windows when it's not supposed to
08:46:32  <Rhamphoryncus> huh?
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09:03:59  * andythenorth had dreams of trees
09:06:24  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: trees are new for me.  Is it basically a directed link graph, starting at a single node and arriving at [result] ?
09:06:27  <Rhamphoryncus> were they growing out of your ear?
09:07:05  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, trees are directed graphs.
09:07:18  <Rhamphoryncus> acyclic too
09:07:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there are also undirected trees
09:07:54  <andythenorth> can brances re-converge in your parse tree?
09:07:59  <Eddi|zuHause> no
09:08:08  <andythenorth> ok
09:08:08  <Eddi|zuHause> then it's not a tree anymore
09:08:17  <andythenorth> in that case I have an optimisation for you
09:08:30  <andythenorth> compile-time visualiser, drawing actual trees in ascii to std-out
09:08:39  <andythenorth> definitely will make CETS more awesome
09:08:46  <Rhamphoryncus> ... optimization?
09:09:06  <andythenorth> it will draw a forest while you wait for CETS to compile
09:09:30  <andythenorth> it's a technique from 80s games to cover slow things
09:09:36  <andythenorth> like waiting for tapes to load ;)
09:10:06  <andythenorth> instead of making x faster, adjust people's perception that x is slow :)
09:10:17  <andythenorth> also it's pointless eye candy, therefore worth doing
09:10:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but since it's nmlc that is slow, i would need t start that in a separate thread
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09:11:14  <andythenorth> maybe run two python processes, parsing the same input, with different output?
09:11:35  <andythenorth> I think it's important...
09:12:00  <Eddi|zuHause> did you get it to run, actually?
09:12:09  <andythenorth> not yet
09:12:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and did you try the modification to
09:12:33  <andythenorth> 			entry[u"values"] = entry # self-reference
09:12:34  <andythenorth> ?
09:12:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
09:13:02  <andythenorth> yes
09:13:05  <andythenorth> doesn't work
09:13:16  <Eddi|zuHause> and if you remove that line?
09:13:20  <andythenorth> let's see
09:13:37  <andythenorth> same issue
09:13:47  <andythenorth> I suspect the key that is an empty string personally
09:13:52  <Eddi|zuHause> if "it works", then you should get a line like "function requires X arguments, Y given"
09:14:15  <andythenorth> I still have TypeError: unique() keywords must be strings
09:14:50  <Eddi|zuHause> but even an empty string is a string
09:15:38  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea where the empty string comes from, though
09:17:05  <andythenorth> I tested if len(name) > 0
09:17:09  <andythenorth> makes no difference
09:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> can you try editing src/table/CETS_Tracking_Table.tsv, in the second line, after "Refit Cost" thre's an empty space, write something there between the two tabs
09:19:05  <andythenorth> yup
09:19:19  <andythenorth> I was attempting to add a try: except: to raise the key
09:20:36  <Rhamphoryncus> feature request: if one side of a presignal is going to behave like a normal signal (because there's no exits for it to check), draw that side as a normal signal
09:21:01  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ok, I added 'foo', I know get
09:21:01  <andythenorth> UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position 11-13: invalid data
09:21:28  <andythenorth> let me check excel didn't introduce that though
09:22:13  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like something you introduced on saving
09:22:32  <andythenorth> yup, that was excel
09:22:34  <andythenorth> reverted that
09:22:39  <Eddi|zuHause> change to say "windows-1252"
09:22:47  <Eddi|zuHause> on the tracking table
09:22:50  <Eddi|zuHause> or something
09:22:59  <Eddi|zuHause> or just use a normal editor
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09:25:57  <andythenorth> I used a normal editor
09:26:08  <andythenorth> still fails on key(s)
09:26:16  * andythenorth is doing horrible print statements
09:26:29  <dihedral> hello
09:27:04  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: this is bizarre...
09:27:13  <andythenorth> in
09:27:18  <andythenorth> if I call key = str(key)
09:27:35  <andythenorth> I get KeyError: "(u'DR', u'212')"
09:27:52  <Eddi|zuHause> key is a tuple
09:27:58  <andythenorth> ah
09:28:04  <Eddi|zuHause> and that's unrelated to the error
09:28:07  <andythenorth> ok
09:28:15  <Eddi|zuHause> the error is during the "**" processing
09:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause> which means the dict is passed as keyword-args
09:29:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but can you try this:
09:29:12  <Eddi|zuHause> in, in the tables.titles = ... line
09:29:23  <Eddi|zuHause> write "map(str, ...)"
09:29:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and the following for-line as well
09:30:04  <Eddi|zuHause> ... is "" stuff
09:31:41  <andythenorth> ?	tables.titles ='\n').split('\t') # second line contains column titles
09:31:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that line
09:32:07  <andythenorth> wrap the rhs in map(
09:32:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
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09:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause> and do the same in the next line
09:32:48  <Eddi|zuHause> enumerate(map(str, ...))
09:36:46  <andythenorth> tra la la
09:36:50  <Rhamphoryncus> Hum, 87% of my trains can travel at 135 km/h.  The remaining 13% travel at 104 or 120 km/h.  Methods I need to segregate them.
09:37:01  * andythenorth thinks it would be much nicer to watch CETS compile if it drew trees
09:37:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so did that work?
09:37:30  <andythenorth> I will know when nmlc has finished :P
09:37:36  <andythenorth> should I make some tea while I wait?
09:37:49  <Eddi|zuHause> takes about 3 minutes here
09:38:06  <andythenorth> it's printing lots of length warnings :)
09:38:09  <andythenorth> that prop just changed
09:38:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, lots of vehicles have missing stats in the table
09:39:00  <andythenorth> it's the deprecation warning - 'shorten_vehicle' changed to 'length'
09:39:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but the python did not throw any errors anymore?
09:39:04  <andythenorth> nope
09:39:18  <andythenorth> python cat says lol
09:39:27  <andythenorth> and it finished compiling
09:39:34  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ah, some updated nml feature
09:39:39  <andythenorth> yup
09:40:24  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that should be an easy fix, but i'm not really bothered right now
09:40:40  <andythenorth> well that was exciting
09:40:49  <andythenorth> easily the most complex python I've ever tried to read
09:41:27  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: read the output in files like src/pruss/EG531.pnml
09:41:48  <Eddi|zuHause> or 538? don't remember the number
09:41:55  <Eddi|zuHause> one of those, anyway
09:41:58  <andythenorth>  found it
09:43:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so... i figure your python has problem with unicode-strings in kwargs
09:43:24  <andythenorth> maybe
09:43:35  <andythenorth> unicode in python often leads to sadness
09:43:39  * andythenorth will bbl
09:44:13  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that should very clearly be a mac-python bug
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10:05:54  <Rhamphoryncus> Is it possible to change the limit on airports per town?
10:07:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
10:07:16  <Eddi|zuHause> enable noise control
10:07:44  <Rhamphoryncus> Does that increase it or reduce it?
10:08:04  <Rhamphoryncus> I'm playing with very few towns so this airport isn't near the town, but still triggers the limit
10:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: people say that this unicode thing should be working in 2.7 but not on 2.6 and earlier
10:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: in general, it reduces for smaller towns, and may increase for bigger towns
10:09:27  <Rhamphoryncus> ahh okay
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10:15:25  <MNIM> ugh. You know what I really hate?
10:15:56  <MNIM> when you've built a whole network, and then you find out that passenger cars ain't working :S
10:16:37  <Rhamphoryncus> Didn't work.  Had to move over 9 tiles in one axis.  Kinda odd.
10:16:44  <Rhamphoryncus> MNIM: how do passenger cars not work?
10:16:59  <MNIM> I can't build any
10:17:06  <Rhamphoryncus> wha?
10:17:17  <MNIM> most likely caused by changing GRFs in the scenario.
10:17:19  <Rhamphoryncus> ugh.  Crashed plane, 2.5 million liters of backlogged oil gone :/
10:17:22  <Rhamphoryncus> ah
10:20:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: pro tip: run an advertising campaign to get the rating up
10:20:54  <Rhamphoryncus> oh yeah, thanks
10:21:30  <Rhamphoryncus> artificial deflation meet artificial inflation!  :)
10:21:41  <Eddi|zuHause> note that this only works near the town center
10:26:38  <Rhamphoryncus> It's not really, but I'm doing it anyway
10:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was 15 tiles for small and 25 tiles for large advertising campaign
10:27:50  <Eddi|zuHause> or similar
10:32:04  <Rhamphoryncus> Either way I'm back up to 85%
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11:15:43  <whsck>   Hi, I had a bug report that was closed, while I was gathering the information required, Just wandering how to get it open again?
11:19:16  <blathijs> whsck: What's the bug number?
11:20:06  <Eddi|zuHause> whsck: have you tried updating to the latest nightly instead?
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11:46:41  <DDR> Pardon, but can anyone help me set up a game which starts in the 1700s?
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11:48:00  <DDR> Horse-and-buggies seem to have disappeared.
11:48:01  <TinoDidriksen> You mean, before locomotives were invented?
11:48:05  <DDR> Yeah.
11:49:19  <DDR> I'd like to start out with some horses, a couple AI players, and then after a while start up with the trains. 'course, I'd like to have ships as well, but I'd be happy if I could buy *anything* way back when.
11:51:25  <Rhamphoryncus> DDR: you need the right newgrf for that
11:51:51  <DDR> What newgrf is that?
11:51:56  <DDR> I don't know it's name. :(
11:52:47  <Rhamphoryncus> I don't remember, but right now I'm running with tropic refurbishment, egrvts, HEQS, and aviators.  You should download them all and try them one by one in a quick one-off to see if it works
11:52:49  <TinoDidriksen> So, wagonways and wooden railroads? Neat.
11:53:01  <Rhamphoryncus> but I'd start with HEQS and egrvts ;)
11:53:15  <andythenorth> HEQS has nothing until about 1870 btw
11:53:22  <DDR> I tried with Tropic Refurbishment, at least, but I haven't tried those others.
11:53:36  <DDR> I might be able to live with 1870.
11:54:01  <Rhamphoryncus> TinoDidriksen: sort of.  There's horse-drawn trams, but it the tracks aren't any different
11:54:15  <Rhamphoryncus> then it's egrvts.  andythenorth *might* know something about HEQS, hehe
11:54:54  <Rhamphoryncus> I've done some games starting at 1900 and I'm pretty sure I've seen stuff available from 1700
11:54:54  <Rubidium> whsck: from the savegame I was able to determine what the cause of the desync was, and the savegame+command log you've given after that confirms that I was right. The cause of the desync is the same as FS#5007, so I closed FS#5030 as duplicate.
11:55:21  <DDR> If I ever try my hand at modding OpenTTD, which I might now due to certain developments, I'll try making a Year-0 grf.
11:55:56  <DDR> It'll probably take a few months to play through a whole game, but eyyy, could be good as a one-off.
11:55:59  <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: I've seen it, but that's about it
11:56:10  <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: alright
11:56:33  <DDR> One of the things I'll have to do is figure out some way to eliminate unupkept road and whatnot.
11:58:29  <DDR> Or transfer ownership to the company which uses it most.
11:58:56  <DDR> Cities and industries should be more mobile.
11:59:06  <DDR> Climate change would be nice. Hm.
11:59:19  <DDR> Bonus points if I can relate it to the amount of engines used. :P
11:59:23  <DDR> Goodnight.
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12:05:38  <whsck> How do I find the bug report of FS#5007
12:07:38  <Rubidium> whsck: that bug is already fixed, but there's a search box in the top right of the bug tracker
12:07:52  <whsck> Just wandering so I know how to fix it maybe?~
12:07:52  <Rubidium> and it's linked from FS#5030's close message
12:08:05  <Rubidium> whsck: update openttd is the only real solution
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12:10:24  <Rubidium> as fixing it only server side will make it even more likely that people desync
12:24:29  <peter1138> i want a plush pintsize
12:25:42  <Elukka>
12:37:19  <andythenorth> I want a jabberwocky
12:37:22  <andythenorth> and a ninky nonk
12:37:28  <andythenorth> and a python
12:38:09  <Elukka> a python is very achievable
12:39:40  <Elukka>
12:39:44  <Elukka> look at this thing. awwww...
12:39:57  <Elukka> think it's a boa though if memory serves
12:39:58  <andythenorth> snakes are cool
12:40:06  <andythenorth> surprisingly warm
12:40:10  <Noldo> badger badger badger
12:41:11  <Elukka> well, they're about as warm as the environment...
12:42:06  <andythenorth> ambient snake
12:42:24  <Elukka> heh
12:42:35  <Elukka> sounds like a genre
12:42:51  <Elukka>
12:42:53  <Elukka> lizards are the same
12:44:40  <Elukka> the kitchen table is pretty much his turf now
12:44:43  <Elukka> the best chillin' place
12:44:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: people say they successfully executed code like mine on python 2.6.7, but some 2.6 even on linux have been seen affected by the problem
12:45:29  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in general i'd advise you to update python anyway, but i've commited the str() workaround to CETS
12:45:38  <andythenorth> thanks
12:45:44  <andythenorth> updating python is possible
12:45:49  <andythenorth> but not now - stuff sometimes breaks
12:46:17  <Elukka> updated python to boa
12:46:32  <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you update to a later 2.6.bugfix release should not affect program's behaviours
12:48:32  <whsck> Am I not up to date with Open TTD then? Is that why i'm desyncing?
12:51:08  <Rhamphoryncus> whsck: He said it's a bug that was fixed last week.  So yes, the version you have has the bug, but everybody else you're playing with might have it too; they just didn't trigger it.
12:52:28  <whsck> Ok thank you very much
12:53:42  <whsck> So we'll have to download the stable version or is there a patch for 1.2.0-beta3?
12:54:28  <planetmaker> whsck, the current stable is older than the testing release of 1.2.0-beta3
12:54:39  <planetmaker> Only nightly versions are newer. And only those are patched
12:54:53  <Elukka> you have to download a nightly
12:55:11  <planetmaker> Thus either you play with a nightly (all of you will have to get the same version) or you'll have to wait for 1.2.0-beta4
12:55:21  <whsck> Where can I download a nightly?
12:55:34  <planetmaker> take a guess.
12:55:37  <planetmaker> Look at the website
12:55:48  <whsck> thought so :)
12:55:50  <whsck> ty
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13:00:47  <V453000> the CETS is seriously intending to have 600+ engines? :D
13:01:33  <Eddi|zuHause> not at the same time, if you make your parameter selection careful :)
13:02:20  <V453000> still wondering who is going to draw that many :D
13:02:27  <Elu> yyeaaaaah that's a bit of an issue
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13:02:58  <V453000> oh and it is even in the 12? angles :D
13:03:01  <V453000> or 16?
13:03:25  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 12 for symmetric, 24 for asymmetric
13:04:03  <V453000> jesus
13:04:55  <Mazur> Or make it once in 3D and capture 12/24 angles of view.
13:05:48  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you need to write a pixel generator :P
13:08:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it's difficult enough to mend my mental images into code, but into pixels i pretty much always failed...
13:08:44  <Eddi|zuHause> the closest i got to drawing sensible vehicles is the green template boxes :)
13:09:00  <andythenorth> if you can visualise the output of that generator in your might surprise yourself
13:09:07  <andythenorth> zephryis wrote procedural house generator
13:09:35  <andythenorth> I wonder if you could generate the intermediate angles you require
13:09:40  <andythenorth> from the / or - views
13:09:52  <andythenorth> they won't be seen that frequently, they could bear being lower-quality
13:10:23  <andythenorth> it's probably 'just' a matrix transform
13:10:43  <Eddi|zuHause> that has all kinds of issues with antialiasing and hinting
13:10:53  <andythenorth> don't anti-alias
13:11:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but oberhÃŒmer does something like that
13:11:29  <andythenorth> or draw the set as flat texture maps and UV map them onto boxes
13:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can't antialias
13:11:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but that may make some relevant pixels disappear
13:12:02  <andythenorth> manual cleanup after the fact
13:12:03  <Eddi|zuHause> like the pantograph of the EG511
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13:14:22  <Elukka> i still haven't managed a method of making the intermediate views with anything beyond just drawing them
13:16:23  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: while you're here: recolouring the closed wagon to something white-ish for the refrigerated wagon?
13:16:37  <Elukka> hmm, sure
13:16:43  <Elukka> i should also finish the stake wagon
13:16:47  <Elukka> and do all the rest of them...
13:18:05  <Elukka> this is what happens when you spend too much time staring at a sprite of a certain wagon...
13:18:06  <Elukka>
13:18:09  <Elukka>
13:23:12  <Eddi|zuHause> and then we need slightly shorter versions for the earlier generation
13:23:20  <Eddi|zuHause> and slightly longer versions for the later generation
13:23:34  <Elukka> 1 lu shorter i assume
13:23:41  <Elukka> that's going to take some fiddling
13:24:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll make you a table with the exact lengths
13:24:24  <Elukka> i think the longer ones should be a different sprite altogether, at least i can't think of any later wagons with the same shape
13:25:27  <Eddi|zuHause> what you currently draw are the 1910-ish versions, there's mostly similar 1870-ish and 1930-ish versions
13:25:40  <Eddi|zuHause> the 1950-ish DB versions may need something new
13:26:15  <Eddi|zuHause> and then there are 1970-ish versions that are slightly faster, but mostly look the same
13:26:53  <andythenorth> you should do this:
13:27:00  <andythenorth> - make a wagon LH end
13:27:03  <andythenorth> - make a wagon RH end
13:27:11  <andythenorth> - make 4px intermediate sections
13:27:18  <andythenorth> - make 4px door sections
13:27:20  <andythenorth> generate
13:27:23  <andythenorth> same for coaches
13:27:34  <andythenorth> you do all angles for the components then just build
13:28:06  <andythenorth> a lot of computational approaches seem to focus on starting from scratch for the whole result, instead of just assembling pre-made modules
13:28:12  <andythenorth> robots are good at putting modules together...
13:28:21  <andythenorth> they're crappy at creative tasks...
13:28:23  <Elukka> well, the current sprite is representative of the G10 and probably a bunch of other models
13:28:27  <Elukka> but don't later wagons usually have round roofs
13:28:39  <andythenorth> that's an optimisation.  later :P
13:28:48  <andythenorth> it's about 0.5px different at this scale
13:28:58  <Elukka> plus a brakeman's cab at frame level, and oppeln type has different wheel placement...
13:28:59  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
13:29:11  <Eddi|zuHause> minor details :)
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13:29:20  <andythenorth> make them from components :P
13:29:31  <andythenorth> Most of the trucks and trailers in BANDIT will be done that way
13:29:46  <Elukka> andy, robots are good at putting modules together but i am no good at making robots :P
13:29:48  <andythenorth> but I'm not smart enough to write code to assemble them, so I'll do it in photoshop by hand
13:29:53  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause is good at making robots
13:30:07  <andythenorth> it's just feeding a recipe to something that composites images
13:31:06  <Elukka> so you just do modular sprite parts and move them around until it looks like a thing
13:41:07  <Elukka> it's a good thing i already have brakeman's cabs on a separate layer so they're easy to copypaste to another wagon
13:41:09  <Elukka> or remove altogether
13:41:37  <Elukka> they are a lot of pain for a small detail since they make the wagon asymmetric
13:41:46  <Elukka> possibly that's why i haven't seem them in any other grf before :P
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13:58:25  <Eddi|zuHause> DBSet has brakers cab at the last wagon
13:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, preliminary vehicle length list:
13:59:47  <Eddi|zuHause> numbers in parentheses are optional for now
13:59:59  <Eddi|zuHause> the * means this is currently in the set, but wrong length
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14:05:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there may be some oddities in there that need to be ironed out in a review
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14:58:43  <Belugas> hello
15:03:58  <andythenorth> Elukka: anything asymmetric gives you 2x the number of sprites :(
15:04:06  <andythenorth> all RVs and ships are asymmetric :(
15:04:11  <andythenorth> you train people have it easy :P
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17:06:41  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the autoreplace button in the depot could show an error message "no suitible autoreplace rule found"
17:07:03  <andythenorth> autoreplace is a bit magical / untrustworthy right now
17:07:11  <andythenorth> took me years to figure out that button btw
17:07:23  <andythenorth> much pressing of it with no result :P
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17:30:31  <Rhamphoryncus> I used it once.  It's a manual autoreplace.. kinda pointless.
17:41:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i always use it
17:41:41  <Eddi|zuHause> the easiest way to make sure only the vehicles you want to get replaced
17:42:23  <Rhamphoryncus> Grouping them isn't easier?
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17:51:00  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on the situation
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18:57:38  <xiong> I've long used path signals. Now I'm running chillpack which has a patch to signal bridges (and I suppose, tunnels). But these are block signals. I find trains wait at the previous path signal while blocks are open.
18:58:44  <xiong> I understand why this is so, I guess. The train is waiting to reserve a path to the next path signal, after the bridge entirely. Is that right? If so, how to fix this?
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19:05:24  <Terkhen> hello
19:08:24  <xiong> Hello, Terkhen.
19:08:44  <xiong> Apparently not tunnels. But bridges certainly.
19:15:12  <lugo> xiong: place one block signal in front of and behind any tunnels/bridges which have signals
19:15:34  <xiong> lugo, I'll try that.
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19:23:29  <xiong> Now I'll have to load up that line so the trains follow more closely, see how that goes. Thanks.
19:23:43  <xiong> lugo++ # right on
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19:31:42  <xiong> Yes, that's the solution.
19:34:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23873 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
19:34:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:34:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 changes by chenwt0315
19:34:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
19:34:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 71 changes by OliTTD
19:34:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 65 changes by Parastais
19:34:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 7 changes by Stabilitronas
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20:02:05  <andythenorth> efening
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20:06:35  * andythenorth ponders converting FISH to nml
20:13:40  <Alberth> becoming a nml addict ? :)
20:13:52  <andythenorth> it's compelling
20:14:00  <andythenorth> nml + templating language of your choice
20:14:19  <andythenorth> mako and genshi looked good
20:15:02  * andythenorth is familiar with chameleon so likes it
20:16:00  <andythenorth> is global_constants a good pattern?
20:16:14  <andythenorth> I added it for BANDIT, then noticed nml has same
20:16:29  <andythenorth> (basically a .py file for global vars and such)
20:16:56  <Alberth> I don't have that many global constants, normally
20:17:18  <Alberth> and normally 0 global vars :p
20:17:36  <andythenorth> it's for stuff like 'list of cargo classes for fast vehicles' etc
20:18:10  <Alberth> constants is fine, and with many or large constants it is a sane method to get them out of the way
20:18:26  * andythenorth is mostly concerned with making it easy for other people to hack on
20:18:40  <andythenorth> if I code BANDIT sanely, anyone can hack truck sets on top of it
20:19:05  <andythenorth> it could literally become a web app to make truck newgrfs
20:19:18  <andythenorth> upload pngs, define properties, compile
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20:19:34  <Alberth> we'll get flooded with trucks! :D
20:19:39  <Alberth> efenink Wolf01
20:20:09  <Wolf01> oddink
20:20:34  <andythenorth> I kind of like ALLCAPS for constants, but that conflates with nml built-ins
20:20:43  <andythenorth> maybe just prefix global_
20:21:33  <Alberth> BND_ALLCAPS
20:21:44  <andythenorth> good point
20:21:54  <andythenorth> pep-8 says CAPS for constants (I think(
20:22:08  <Alberth> yep
20:22:11  *** Nite [] has joined #openttd
20:22:31  <Nite> Hi
20:22:37  <Alberth> hi Nite
20:22:56  <Nite> i always get disconnected from servers on ottd1.5
20:23:20  <Nite> the console says: "your computer took too long to join"
20:23:27  <Alberth> I wrote something FAQ-ish about that :)
20:23:34  <Nite> kewl
20:23:56  <Alberth> server owner needs to think about this, always tricky :(
20:24:59  <Nite> cant find faq on ... hmmm
20:26:09  <Alberth> -> manual -> FAQ (last entry at the 'gameplay' text part at the top)
20:26:25  <Alberth> (-> MP FAQ )
20:26:39  <Nite> ok ty vm
20:26:49  <Alberth> so indeed, there is no FAQ at :p
20:27:01  <andythenorth> hmm
20:27:13  <andythenorth> my project has /src where the build script is
20:27:13  <andythenorth> an
20:27:13  <andythenorth> d
20:27:22  <andythenorth> and /sprites/nml where the templates are
20:27:38  <andythenorth> does belong in /src or /sprites/nml ?
20:27:45  <andythenorth> or is this bike-shedding the issue?
20:28:04  <Alberth> yeah, I fail to understand why source code is below 'sprites' too :)
20:28:16  <andythenorth> I'm not sure how to best set this up
20:28:22  <andythenorth> I also have /scripts :P
20:28:26  <andythenorth> but I don't need to use that
20:28:41  <Alberth> but /sprites/nml, I think, as it is part of the project, rather than the generic build script stuff
20:29:03  <Nite> sry but the last entry in gamplay faq is "How to get computer opponents (AIs) in my game?"
20:29:05  <andythenorth> I also have where the big dict defining trucks is
20:29:10  <andythenorth> src or sprites/nml for that?
20:29:43  * andythenorth only cares on behalf of others - I'll know anyway
20:29:43  <Alberth> Nite: MP FAQ (multiplayer/network/whatever it is called)
20:30:21  <Alberth> andythenorth: keep all project sources at one place would be my advice
20:30:55  <andythenorth> I could just put everything in /src, then put the single generated nml file into sprites/nml
20:31:00  <andythenorth> which is maybe better?
20:31:02  <Alberth> if you use the layout of our planet builder, that's under sprites/nml afaik
20:31:27  <andythenorth> meh
20:31:37  * andythenorth is probably bikeshedding
20:31:47  <Nite> if you mean "People get disconnected while joining, how to fix that?" that doesent help me because i get connected properly
20:31:57  <Nite> then after some time disconnect
20:32:33  <Nite> - did the standard setting of ticks you may lag behing change on 1.5?
20:33:08  * Alberth does not know, I never play MP, so have no idea about those settings
20:33:25  <Nite> - did "max lag time" default changed in 1.5
20:33:43  <Nite> btw: this happens on every server
20:33:59  <Alberth> what part of "does not know" is not understood?
20:34:26  <Nite> i understood you do not know it! alberth
20:35:24  <Alberth> (20:39:11) Nite: the console says: "your computer took too long to join"  <-- I don't call that connected, but maybe that's just me?
20:36:23  <Alberth> not sure what else to call it :(
20:36:24  <Nite> look iam connected and can wathc teh game running for less then a minute
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20:37:45  <Alberth> so likely, while you downloaded the map, the game moved on, you are trying to upload the other changes, but it takes too long, so you get dropped due to having too much lag
20:38:04  <Alberth> euhm *download even :)
20:40:01  <Nite> the thing is that i never hat this problems before 1.5
20:40:17  <Nite> since 1.5 i cannot connect properly fully or whatever
20:41:31  <Nite> i will look what my stopwatch says
20:43:49  <Nite> ok one and a half minute - then  "computer took to long to yoin"
20:46:06  <Nite> i blame it on my connection and the 1.5 version might be just coincidence
20:47:45  <Nite> the one and half minute sems relatively ecact
20:47:49  <Nite> every time
20:47:53  <Nite> babbling
20:48:11  <Alberth> did you check the changelog to see whether such settings were changed in 1.1.5?
20:48:18  <Nite> weeeell
20:49:16  <Alberth> well, computers are very good at giving the same result every time, no matter how often you compute the same thing :p
20:50:13  <Alberth> but I would not surprised at all if all server owners just updated and started the new version without reading/considering the changes
20:51:26  <Nite> afaik computers are not good at anything at all ... no mather
20:52:24  <Nite> changelog says: Make default timeouts for certain network states lower and configurable
20:52:48  <Nite> does it mean the computer network or the virtual rail network ??
20:55:31  <Nite> its pretty quiet here
20:55:33  <Hirundo> computer network
20:55:34  <Alberth> the Internets
20:55:49  <Nite> - is it getting quiet around ottd in general?
20:56:11  <Hirundo> basically, you could shutdown a server from remote by downloading a map infinitely slowly
20:56:32  <Alberth> it quite often quiet here; people are busy playing or doing other stuff
20:57:36  <Nite> but, but i downloaded the map already, superfast, iam connected and playing but only for 1 min 30
20:57:58  <Nite> maybe some bits and bytes dont check that iam connected
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21:00:58  <Nite> anyway ... must be my connection, might have hiccups
21:05:05  *** mahmoud [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:05:30  <andythenorth> Nite: quietness is cyclical
21:05:40  <andythenorth> recently there was a big burst of development
21:05:46  <andythenorth> now lots of people are busy stuff
21:06:30  * andythenorth monologues here in inverse proportion to writing actual code :P
21:06:33  <Nite> ic
21:06:45  <andythenorth> although when designing, andythenorth monologues here a lot
21:07:20  * andythenorth ponders
21:07:55  <Nite> ah yeah life stuff
21:08:12  <Nite> like getting money buying things
21:09:21  <Nite> well i se it as a sign that i should do something else then play ottd
21:09:47  <Nite> first i will head to a more lively chatroom
21:09:51  <Alberth> most people here don't play much :)
21:10:11  <andythenorth> hmm...there are a few cases where c pre-processor constants are much more elegant than providing same in python
21:10:31  <Nite> i was always on the playerside only in ottd
21:10:46  <andythenorth> using multiple templating methods is confusing though, right?
21:11:04  <Alberth> at least it's "interesting" :)
21:11:43  <Alberth> but yeah, it does not seem very useful to me to have several templating mechanisms
21:12:04  <Nite> i consider taking my socond big transporttycoon pause
21:12:26  <Nite> the first one lasted over a decade
21:14:46  <Nite> almost exactly a decade
21:15:35  <Nite> cya 2022 ;-)
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21:37:03  <frosch123> someone knows when citydomination v6 spawns goals?
21:43:57  <__ln__>
21:51:30  *** Hirundo [] has joined #openttd
21:52:30  <frosch123> where is zuu when you need him :)
21:54:28  <frosch123> i believe citydomination fails in singleplayer
21:54:54  <frosch123> the scripts only notices companies if they are created newly. but in singleplayer the playercompany is started before the gs
21:55:00  <frosch123> so only ais get goals :s
21:58:58  <Alberth> play as dummy AI :p
21:59:40  <andythenorth> grr\
21:59:56  <andythenorth> global constants are much easier in cpp than python
21:59:59  <andythenorth> no scops
22:00:03  <andythenorth> scopes /s
22:02:48  * Hirundo expects a counter-rant on how cpp's everything-in-one-namespace can lead to subtle bugs
22:04:08  * andythenorth wonders whether to apply duct tape principle
22:04:16  <andythenorth> or 'one way to do it'
22:05:02  <andythenorth> I can solve this with python, I'm just too lazy to write everytime I want it :P
22:05:14  <andythenorth> and to pass globals = globals to the template :P
22:10:07  <Alberth> you write globals at top-level, right?
22:10:23  <Alberth> ie   BND_VALUE = 38
22:11:00  <Alberth> from globals import *   dumps all of them in your name space :p
22:12:03  <Alberth> Hirundo: they are not subtle at all :p
22:12:27  <Alberth> anyways, good night all
22:12:55  <Hirundo> depending on your ifdef-chain, bugs may appear on Wednesdays only etc
22:13:07  *** Shadowthehedgehog16 [] has joined #openttd
22:13:36  <Shadowthehedgehog16> Have any of you guys seen Plastikman???
22:14:51  *** Shadowthehedgehog16 [] has quit []
22:15:53  <Terkhen> ...?
22:15:55  <andythenorth> Alberth: afaik, they don't appear in the template namespace unless I pass them
22:15:58  <Terkhen> good night Alberth
22:16:14  <Wolf01> good night too
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22:20:50  <planetmaker> andythenorth: in the nml projects there's no folder sprites/...
22:20:59  <planetmaker> unless you custom-define the paths differently
22:21:05  *** Shadowthehedgehog21 [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
22:21:10  <andythenorth> maybe I added my own
22:21:20  <planetmaker> (for "my" nml project framework)
22:21:23  <planetmaker> yes, you did
22:21:27  <andythenorth> I'm happy to take advice on folder structure :)
22:21:33  <planetmaker> because you wanted to keep it the same as nfo
22:21:38  <andythenorth> oh yes
22:21:43  <andythenorth> my brain found that easier :P
22:22:26  <planetmaker> my idea for folder layout is: build scripts (makefile and similar) for the grf go into scripts/
22:22:39  <planetmaker> and source files into src/
22:22:55  <planetmaker> and if you want the graphics into gfx/ or src/gfx. I'm not sure what I like better
22:23:14  <planetmaker> probably src/gfx is better
22:23:30  <andythenorth> template files in /src ?
22:24:15  <planetmaker> they're source. sure
22:24:24  <planetmaker> create whatever subfolders you need within src
22:24:43  <andythenorth> src/templates I guess then
22:24:52  <planetmaker> ^^
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22:44:13  <nase> hello
22:44:53  <Terkhen> good night
22:45:32  <nase> is hier jemand auch aus deutschland?
22:47:23  <Rubidium> I've been in Germany (and am not in it right now) does that mean I'm from it as well?
22:48:34  <nase> have the new version is a frwge openttd
22:48:35  <Ammler> nase: there is no German sepaking IRC channel, if you ask for that
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22:48:59  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Is Plastikman here yet. 'cause I need to talk to him.
22:49:14  <Rubidium> @seen Plastikman
22:49:14  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: I have not seen Plastikman.
22:49:24  <Rubidium> Shadowthehedgeog99: he has never been here
22:49:34  *** nase [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
22:50:02  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Man. This is crap 'cause I've sent the donation to him.
22:50:08  <Rubidium> but Plastikman is locomotion, right?
22:50:20  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Yeah
22:50:33  <Rubidium> so this might not be the right place for finding people working on locomotion related things
22:50:48  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Oh. where can I find him???
22:51:12  <Ammler> maybe
22:51:13  <Shadowthehedgeog99> 'cause some numnut banned me in there.
22:51:14  <Rubidium> I have no idea
22:51:36  <Shadowthehedgeog99> They were bullying me around/
22:51:50  <Ammler> you can't buy "unban" :-)
22:52:04  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Where can I find it???
22:52:07  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Tell me
22:52:39  *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@] has joined #openttd
22:52:45  <GoneWacko> What are you offering?
22:52:48  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Oh u saying I can't???
22:53:17  <Shadowthehedgeog99> People whatever u do. don't let him ban me.
22:53:32  <GoneWacko> aww :(
22:53:44  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Yes!!! In your face
22:54:10  *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido]
22:54:31  <Shadowthehedgeog99> What's wrong???
22:54:51  *** Neon [] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.]
22:55:06  <Ammler> hehe, you are lucky, I am no op here :-P
22:55:18  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Ur talking to me???
22:55:27  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
22:55:39  <planetmaker> English only
22:55:45  <Shadowthehedgeog99> I'm just a fan of Plastikman.
22:56:20  <Rubidium> well, he's not here, never has been here and probably never will be here
22:56:33  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Crap
22:56:36  <Shadowthehedgeog99> -_-
22:56:53  <Rubidium> but that you should already know
22:57:12  *** lobster [~lobster@] has joined #openttd
22:57:15  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Man. I wish I could talk to him for my life
22:57:15  <Ammler> does #tycoon still exist?
22:57:27  <lobster> hurrr
22:57:31  <orudge> Ammler: why wouldn't it?
22:57:36  <lobster> you're infected too
22:57:40  <orudge> #tycoon has proudly existed since 2003 or so
22:57:41  <orudge> maybe 2002
22:57:42  <orudge> :)
22:57:44  <Ammler> :-)
22:57:45  <Shadowthehedgeog99> I really want to be his friend.
22:57:48  <orudge> There was a #transtyc somewhere in 2002-ish
22:58:11  <planetmaker> Shadowthehedgeog99: then write him instead of whining here
22:58:15  <Prof_Frink> and #irritatingtycoons at some point.
22:58:16  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Hey orudge. I sent a donation for you.
22:58:29  <Shadowthehedgeog99> :)
22:58:35  <Prof_Frink> And... the Other Channel.
22:58:53  <lobster> and the lobsterlair
22:58:55  <lobster> !
22:59:07  <Shadowthehedgeog99> oh God not again.
22:59:17  <Prof_Frink> Oh yes, oh yes!
22:59:28  *** Shadowthehedgeog98 [] has joined #openttd
22:59:38  <planetmaker> ...
22:59:51  *** Shadowthehedgeog99 [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
23:00:09  <Shadowthehedgeog98> Sorry. I was using the other username.
23:00:21  <Shadowthehedgeog98> I tried something.
23:00:31  <orudge> Shadowthehedgeog98: when?
23:00:42  <Shadowthehedgeog98> Like last week.
23:01:02  <orudge> If you sent a donation for AMI Trains, then you should have access to download the donationware pack
23:01:05  <Shadowthehedgeog98> I meant the donation.
23:01:33  <orudge> If for some reason you don't, please let me know your username on AMI and I can check it
23:01:35  <Shadowthehedgeog98> I was waiting for ur email to send me the newer donationware pack
23:01:43  <orudge> well
23:01:54  <Shadowthehedgeog98> I'll send it to u.
23:01:55  <orudge> I just host AMI Trains, I am not responsible for the content itself
23:01:58  *** itp [] has joined #openttd
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23:02:49  <orudge> I'm not sure if there is a 2012 donationware pack yet, you'd have to ask Plastikman probably
23:03:19  <Shadowthehedgeog98> That what I was trying to talk to him but most people are saying he's not online.
23:03:23  <orudge> well
23:03:25  <orudge> send him a PM on the forums
23:03:34  <Shadowthehedgeog98> What's a PM???
23:03:41  <orudge> press the little 'pm' button next to his username
23:03:43  <orudge> it's a private message
23:03:45  <orudge> on
23:03:48  <planetmaker> a packaged form of myself :-P
23:03:50  <orudge> I'm pretty sure that everybody who has sent donations has been added to the file group, anyway
23:04:40  <Prof_Frink> Afternoon.
23:06:06  <Shadowthehedgeog98> Well since I'm not a member of, I guess you can send me an email for him.
23:06:19  <orudge> I can't, no, I don't have time
23:06:22  <orudge> You can easily sign up :)
23:06:43  <Shadowthehedgeog98> I'm not sure about forums.
23:07:05  <lobster> because they bully you?
23:07:25  <planetmaker> I'm not sure about people who need other people to ask yet other people for them for yet other things
23:07:27  *** Shadowthehedgeog98 [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
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23:10:24  <Shadowthehedgeog99> If GoneWacko bans me again I will kick him to death.
23:10:35  <GoneWacko> now that's just not very nice
23:10:50  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Yeah the why did u ban me???
23:10:55  <Shadowthehedgeog99> then
23:11:01  <Prof_Frink> Because he's a big fat meanie.
23:11:09  <Shadowthehedgeog99> I know
23:11:18  <Shadowthehedgeog99> But don't let him ban me ok.
23:11:22  <Shadowthehedgeog99> ???
23:11:32  <Prof_Frink> The GoneWacko hath no power here.
23:11:39  <planetmaker> can you please discuss your locomotion issues somewhere where they're on-topic?
23:11:54  <planetmaker> I might become a big fat meanie otherwise
23:11:56  <Shadowthehedgeog99> Yeah that's righ!!!
23:12:06  <Shadowthehedgeog99> WTH???
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23:29:25  <TrueBrain> that concludes the daily drama
23:29:47  <Chris_Booth> ahahhahahahahahahahahhaahh
23:30:28  <TrueBrain> you okay?
23:30:32  <Chris_Booth> yes
23:30:37  <TrueBrain> pfew
23:30:44  <Chris_Booth> thought I would just add some drama
23:30:54  <Chris_Booth> didn't work very well though
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