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00:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it's definitely not ok to ask questions about asking a question 00:00:59 <Eddi|zuHause> @topic get 3 00:00:59 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Don't ask to ask, just ask 00:01:20 <bloopletech> sure, just checking this wasn't a dev only channel 00:01:40 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.218] has joined #openttd 00:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you could have an answer by now, but now i'm gone... 00:02:21 <bloopletech> I'm trying to get 1.1.5 running on my new ubuntu oneiric install. I installed the deb for 64bit from the website and installed it. I've downloaded open[g,s,m]fx from the website and put the contents of each zip in ~/.openttd/baseset 00:02:39 <bloopletech> but when I start openttd I still get "Error: Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD. See section 4.1 of readme.txt." 00:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> "baseset" is only for 1.2.0 and later, in 1.1.5 it must be "data" 00:03:07 <michi_cc> Section 4.1 of readme.txt would have told you that :) 00:04:05 <bloopletech> I couldn't find th readme locally so I read the one off of trunk, which is obv. for 1.2 00:04:42 <bloopletech> Someone might want to look at the readmes for the open* packs, one or two of them use baseset 00:05:00 <bloopletech> thanks for the help 00:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause> bloopletech: that'll all be obsolete once 1.2.0 is finalized 00:05:32 <michi_cc> I think the Open* projects all now target the not very far off 1.2.0 finak. 00:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> bloopletech: which is probably in a few weeks 00:06:12 <bloopletech> Eddi|zuHause, ok thanks 00:06:26 <michi_cc> Unless you want exactly 1.1.5 for network play, I'd go for the 1.2 RC anyway. Much better ;) 00:07:47 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-74-236-118.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:11:30 <bloopletech> well my other computers and my friend are all on 1.1.5 right now, I think I'll just wait for the release :) 00:12:25 <bloopletech> though saying that, this particular game is now stuck in a sound loop ;) 00:20:15 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.3.130] has joined #openttd 00:23:43 *** bloopletech [~blooplete@1.158.71.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:26:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.7.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:47:42 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-176-206.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 00:47:50 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-176-206.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 00:54:05 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08f251.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 01:01:11 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-50-136-62-78.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:11:21 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-50-136-62-78.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Goodbye] 01:11:36 *** NessPJ [5418434e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:12:07 <NessPJ> hi all 01:18:52 *** NessPJ [5418434e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 01:27:30 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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06:36:32 <Nat_aS> I can understand how it can cause problems in game, but scenerio editor should be safe 06:38:16 *** snorre [~snorre@c1A0FBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 06:40:06 *** snorre_ [~snorre@c1A0FBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:43:48 <peter1138> scenarios are jus games 06:44:30 <peter1138> +t 06:44:45 <Nat_aS> but isn't there a way to make newgrif loading more sanatary? 06:44:55 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:44:59 <Nat_aS> so the game wont crash or become corrupted? 06:48:10 <Nat_aS> is there any way to mitigate the remove newgrif crashing? 06:48:39 <Nat_aS> because it sucks when an old scenerio is no longer compatible because the maker bundled it with newgrifs you don't even care about. 06:49:42 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 06:50:47 <planetmaker> the scenario is still compatible. you just need the proper newgrfs... 06:51:25 <planetmaker> and 'how come': hysterical raisins. 06:57:17 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:03:44 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 07:04:29 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:21:48 <andythenorth> Pikka: 'lo weebl 07:22:09 <Pikka> sup jim 07:22:18 <andythenorth> put a tarp on it 07:24:45 <Pikka> I just replaced all my 1Ds cargo masks with 2C/2Ds 07:24:50 <Pikka> hilarity shall ensue 07:26:55 <andythenorth> 'refit all' 07:26:58 <andythenorth> 'refit some' 07:27:03 <andythenorth> 'refit maybe' 07:27:18 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.67.69] has joined #openttd 07:31:56 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:31:57 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-110-24.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:36:12 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.71.79] has joined #openttd 07:37:21 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.67.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:41:01 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-110-24.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:57:03 *** pjpjepsdfsdfs [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:00:59 <Pikka> thinks: 08:01:39 * andythenorth sends pikka a link 08:01:43 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=58543&p=999422#p999422 08:01:47 <andythenorth> ^ needs some work still 08:02:05 <Pikka> how rare 08:02:16 <andythenorth> hmm 08:02:20 <andythenorth> let's pick some more colours 08:02:27 * Pikka tries to squeeze some cars onto those cartics... 08:03:28 <andythenorth> pink? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=58543&p=999423#p999423 08:03:42 <Pikka> strange colour for a tarp 08:04:19 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:04:42 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-47-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:04:45 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 08:05:07 <andythenorth> greenish? http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=156907 08:05:11 <andythenorth> anyway, you get the idea :P 08:05:29 <andythenorth> want a new colour? add it, get all load states, in lengths 2-8 08:06:49 <Scuddles> those graphics just draw themselves 08:07:01 <planetmaker> looks tasty, andythenorth 08:09:23 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-181-52.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:09:27 <andythenorth> the layout is a bit horrorshow 08:09:38 <andythenorth> hang on, I'll turn on the template 08:10:07 <Pikka> ХПÑПÑП 08:10:31 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=156908 08:10:42 <Pikka> Scuddles what are you doing here 08:10:49 <andythenorth> the template colours are normally removed during the render 08:11:05 <andythenorth> but they can be left in 08:13:41 <andythenorth> so...I plan to release all the cargo sprites when done 08:13:56 <andythenorth> so people who are terrified of the generator can paste them in with a pixel editor 08:14:05 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has joined #openttd 08:14:08 <andythenorth> they're on the nml template currently 08:15:31 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has quit [] 08:24:03 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-087-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:08:29 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178223078.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:17:21 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-27-54.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:22:17 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178223078.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:31:42 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178229174.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:58:15 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178229174.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:07:23 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178230062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:24:45 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178230062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:27:16 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:29:58 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 10:33:54 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178193103.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:39:48 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-162-244.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 10:42:45 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178193103.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:43:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:46:08 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:50:53 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-087-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 10:51:53 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178228131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:52:52 *** KingPixaIII is now known as Pixa 10:55:32 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 11:07:55 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: *Throws a nuclear warhead in the room and flees*] 11:10:16 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:16:15 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178228131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:16:46 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 11:24:46 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:40:29 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: *Throws a nuclear warhead in the room and flees*] 11:43:50 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:46:57 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:49:15 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:51:06 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:53:55 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:55:55 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: *Throws a nuclear warhead in the room and flees*] 11:56:11 <Pikka> andythenorth: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=156911 11:56:16 <Pikka> looks passable, non? 11:56:42 <Pikka> I fixed up the roof on the yellow car a bit since the screenshot 11:59:02 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:00:20 <andythenorth> Pikka: oui 12:00:23 <andythenorth> c'est shiny 12:00:43 <Pikka> I'm going to have to make them carry "goods" now too so that people will actually see them :) 12:01:05 <andythenorth> ach 12:01:14 <andythenorth> does TAI have cars / vehicles cargos? 12:01:18 <Pikka> nope 12:01:40 <Pikka> but if you take steel and plastic and lumber to a factory, it seems reasonable that cars might come out? 12:01:43 <andythenorth> yup 12:01:52 <andythenorth> I'm adding an auto-plant to FIRS at some point 12:02:07 <andythenorth> I'll do an economy featuring it 12:09:48 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 12:10:32 <andythenorth> Pikka: you made it a full 4-car set ;) 12:10:35 <andythenorth> I notice... 12:11:13 <Pikka> and why not? :] 12:11:35 <andythenorth> indeed 12:11:50 <andythenorth> the rivet-counters might pop up and point out problems.... 12:12:02 <andythenorth> inner / outer wagons have different shapes 12:12:03 <Pikka> like? 12:12:05 <Pikka> hmm 12:12:09 <Ammler> what's a 4-car set? 12:12:11 <Pikka> well, near enough :D 12:12:15 <Pikka> cartic Ammler 12:12:32 <Pikka> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=156911 12:12:37 <andythenorth> http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcartic4 12:13:17 <Pikka> eh, the ends look near enough the same to the middle for TTD scale 12:13:33 <Pikka> I gave the outer ends different buffers/bogies... 12:14:10 <andythenorth> ;) 12:15:22 <Pikka> http://www.pruplethingz.com/junk/cars.png 12:15:51 <Pikka> they're zimmlock's town cars mangled down to fit the diagonals, fully GPLable. 12:16:39 <Pikka> now the question is do I go back and replace the ones on the flat cars with these ones, or leave them with the "full sized" ones... 12:17:03 <Pikka> I can't really be bothered, is the answer, I'll leave them :) 12:20:51 <andythenorth> leave them 12:20:55 <andythenorth> cargo generator! 12:21:01 <Pikka> well 12:21:09 <Pikka> I'd have to mangle down the older generation cars too 12:21:12 <Pikka> and I can't be bothered :) 12:21:32 <Pikka> not that it would take more than a couple of minutes 12:21:57 <NGC3982> hm 12:22:06 <NGC3982> what does regulate the dissaperance of an industry? 12:22:17 <NGC3982> the lack of transportated goods? 12:22:22 <Pikka> what kind of industry, NGC3982? 12:23:11 <NGC3982> any. i notice that building a station close to an industry - and not using it makes it disappear 12:23:20 <NGC3982> dissapear 12:23:26 <NGC3982> for god sake 12:23:28 <NGC3982> disappear 12:23:47 <Pikka> newgrfs can shut down industries whenever they like. default primary industries will shut down if they are already at lowest production and try to decrease. default secondary industries I think are polled every now and then and will shut down if they haven't recieved cargo in a few years. 12:25:07 <NGC3982> ah, i see. 12:43:32 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: *Throws a nuclear warhead in the room and flees*] 12:46:41 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178221064.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:46:42 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:05:19 *** JohnWhite [~57f73c62@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 13:11:37 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:21 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:19:51 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d809:8471:d8ec:caea] has joined #openttd 13:19:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:26:08 <andythenorth> Pikka-boodle: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=156913 13:26:21 * andythenorth should fix the alignment 13:26:43 <andythenorth> tempting to splurge on randomisation of this :P 13:26:52 <andythenorth> but how many cargo sprites can a set use anyway? :P 13:27:07 <Pikka> I'll assume that's a rhetorical question :) 13:27:13 <andythenorth> only partly 13:27:22 <andythenorth> how many cargo sprites can a set us? 13:27:26 <andythenorth> +1 13:27:31 <andythenorth> gah 13:27:40 <andythenorth> I think I'll just cut my fingers off as they have forgotten how to type 13:27:53 <Pikka> no limit, andy 13:28:05 * andythenorth blames ipads and the silly, stabby, one finger pokey keyboard thing 13:28:43 <andythenorth> well variations get trivial 13:28:57 <andythenorth> 2 small tarps, 2 big tarps, 1 small 1 big, 1 big 1 small 13:29:05 <andythenorth> same colour, different colour etc etc 13:29:13 <Pikka> mmhm 13:29:26 <andythenorth> it's only a matter of how many rules to write out :P 13:29:37 <Pikka> in my experience, for any given load 4 variations is enough 13:29:42 <andythenorth> moi aussi 13:29:54 <Pikka> gives you enough of a "random" look, any more is just tmwftlb 13:30:05 <andythenorth> any more than 4, and I'd be thinking about also having pixa generate some of the code to use them 13:30:26 <Pikka> the nfo/nfl? :P 13:30:31 <andythenorth> yeah those 13:30:36 <andythenorth> generating nfo might suck :P 13:30:39 <Pikka> just random action 2... not hard. :) 13:30:50 <andythenorth> I could generate the action 1 / realsprites 13:30:51 <Pikka> unless you want to do odder things, of course 13:30:54 <andythenorth> but rather not tbh 13:31:00 <Pikka> yes\p 13:31:05 <Pikka> and yes 13:31:07 <Pikka> and yep 13:31:57 * andythenorth smells FISH 13:32:18 <Pikka> could be the baby 13:32:28 <andythenorth> probly 13:33:40 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.4.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:33:50 <andythenorth> all those boats...get lower in the water while being loaded with invisible cargo 13:33:53 <andythenorth> most strange 13:34:05 <Pikka> mm fish 13:42:35 <Pikka> ah, 1930 13:42:54 <Pikka> when planes make ,000 a year and airports cost ,000,000 a year to operate. 13:46:40 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:48:51 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:28 <andythenorth> oh 13:50:33 * andythenorth made a tactical error 13:50:38 <andythenorth> toddler has seen ottd on my screen 13:50:42 <andythenorth> 'make train' 13:50:47 <Pikka> oh no :) 13:51:18 <andythenorth> is there a 0.2.0 UKRS for him to try? 13:51:34 <Pikka> not yet 13:51:50 <andythenorth> 'nvm 13:51:52 <Pikka> I've got distracted by working out running costs for airports 13:53:27 <andythenorth> 'bang the truck' 13:56:01 <planetmaker> how old is your toddler now, andythenorth ? 13:56:04 <andythenorth> 2 13:56:16 <planetmaker> dangerous age ;-) 13:56:40 <planetmaker> but I guess the only non-dangerous age is above 25 or so :-P 13:57:16 <andythenorth> dangerous for ottd trucks right 13:57:31 <andythenorth> we need more disasters 13:57:36 <andythenorth> toddlers like disasters 13:58:01 <Pikka> just build the ol' railway snaking across the busy road, andythenorth 13:58:22 <planetmaker> newgrf-disasters 13:58:28 <planetmaker> But maybe rather via game scripts 13:58:46 <andythenorth> 20m views for this :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYKs8r94Ns0 13:59:53 <andythenorth> bbl 13:59:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:03:27 <Belugas> hello 14:03:51 <Pikka> hello Belugas 14:04:08 <Belugas> sir Pikka :) it's getting an habit to see you around heheh 14:04:47 <Pikka> that's because I quit my job! :) 14:05:06 <Pikka> and consider myself on a grf-writing holiday until april 1st 14:10:31 <Belugas> ho? 14:10:36 <Belugas> that's bad 14:10:39 <Belugas> well.. 14:10:41 <Belugas> maybe... 14:10:53 <Belugas> why? 14:12:23 <Belugas> mmh...not my business. As long as you're happy with your decision ;0 It's what matters 14:28:32 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:28:54 *** lobstar [~lobster@178.19.113.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:49 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:34:57 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 14:40:36 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 14:42:54 <Pikka> lol, sorry, was afk 14:43:34 <Pikka> because I figure I have better things to do with my time. ;) I'll be trying to make a living off my wits... but I'm taking it easy until after 1.2.0 is out. :P I have my holiday pay to keep me going for the moment. 14:46:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... in libreoffice, in a table, how can i change the style of individual line segments? 14:48:17 <Pikka> wb andy 14:48:55 <andythenorth> 'lo 14:49:18 <andythenorth> it was for the battery I had to go 14:49:25 <andythenorth> [and the lego truck] 14:50:49 <Scuddles> more like pikka is going to be a professional realm of the mad god player 14:50:55 <Pikka> yes 14:52:28 * andythenorth needs a can of faster 14:52:45 <andythenorth> or somebody to wave 'premature optimisation' at him :P 14:54:07 <andythenorth> hmm 14:54:20 <andythenorth> maybe I can cache the scan of the image, and only rescan when I know it's needed 14:54:53 <andythenorth> currently, if a vehicle has 4 render passes, and 4 colour options, and 8 cargo options.... 14:55:05 <andythenorth> @calc 4 * 4 * 7 14:55:05 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 112 14:55:12 <andythenorth> 120 scans :o 14:55:24 <andythenorth> and scanning seems slow 14:55:31 <andythenorth> whereas....1 might be enough 14:56:04 <andythenorth> is there someone who is a better programmer than me? 14:58:09 <TinoDidriksen> ...when you say scan, what is the context? Going over all pixels? 14:59:22 <andythenorth> yes 14:59:26 <andythenorth> familiar with PIL at all? 15:00:33 <TinoDidriksen> Nope, I don't do Python. 15:04:14 <andythenorth> nvm 15:04:34 <andythenorth> I basically rely on scanning all pixels in an image, from top-left, in rows 15:04:48 <andythenorth> repeatedly :P 15:06:16 <TinoDidriksen> Why? 15:06:30 <michi_cc> Because you have no better idea or because some newly painted pixels are input themselves? 15:30:12 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd8bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:36:02 <andythenorth> because I have no better idea yet 15:36:26 <andythenorth> I didn't want to optimise too early 15:37:07 <andythenorth> what I need is some way to cache the scan, storing only the significant pixels 15:37:17 <andythenorth> and also a method to invalidate the cache on demand 15:37:43 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 15:38:40 <andythenorth> I may be using unwise methods in PIL, it might have ways to turn the image into an iterable sequence that are faster than examining every pixel 15:40:48 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.3.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:42:00 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:42:30 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178221064.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:47:59 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Scan once and simply make an array/vector/dict/list with [x, y, value] and then work from that. 15:48:23 <michi_cc> Only for the interesting pixels of course. 15:48:29 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:49:24 <andythenorth> yeah, that's my thinking 15:49:42 <andythenorth> I'm trying to figure out how to do that only once 15:50:00 <andythenorth> I want to do it inside the module, without forcing a rewrite of existing client code 15:50:50 <andythenorth> hmm 15:50:57 * andythenorth may have a solution 15:54:37 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 15:54:43 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 15:54:47 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [] 15:57:01 *** lobster [~lobster@178.19.113.126] has joined #openttd 15:57:12 *** Rubidium_ [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has joined #openttd 16:00:48 *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium 16:13:09 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:25:29 <andythenorth> hmm 16:25:39 <andythenorth> caching the scan gives me a 50% reduction in run time 16:26:07 <andythenorth> ~5s to generate ~100 images 16:26:10 <andythenorth> instead of ~10s 16:27:31 <TinoDidriksen> What does the scan do? What are you changing with a scan? 16:27:51 <andythenorth> it reads the x, y, colour of each pixel 16:28:31 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178196062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:29:06 <TinoDidriksen> ...but why? There's a distinct lack of algorithm details. 16:30:21 <andythenorth> TinoDidriksen: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=998325#p998325 16:31:01 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm88.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 16:38:49 <andythenorth> I could also more deeply cache everything that needs to be drawn, instead of iterating over my cached list n times 16:38:55 <andythenorth> but I don't think that's the slow bit :P 16:41:42 *** lugo [lugo@209.141.56.5] has quit [Quit: over and out] 16:54:44 *** tparker_ is now known as tparker 17:06:33 <andythenorth> hmm 17:06:45 <andythenorth> I need to teach pixa about being made with a makefile or such 17:07:41 <Pixa> I totally know about makefiles 17:10:26 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-74-73-93-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:12:07 <andythenorth> so I don't really grok what I need to do yet 17:12:44 <andythenorth> I have main.py, which imports modules (for graphics to be generated) and calls render on them 17:12:44 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/entry/misc/pixel_generator/main.py 17:13:35 <andythenorth> I want to switch to parallel rendering, which make should be able to figure out 17:14:30 <andythenorth> I could write some kind of despatcher to wrap around each module, or give it a __main__ method 17:14:36 <andythenorth> or make main.py understand args 17:14:54 <andythenorth> clues? 17:23:44 *** FHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:27:31 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-087-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 17:33:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.182.59] has joined #openttd 17:40:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.166.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:30 <NGC3982> args? 17:45:34 <NGC3982> aaarrrrrggggs! 17:45:47 <NGC3982> and a chest of scallywags 17:47:46 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-74-73-93-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:49:07 *** Fujikurax1337 [~dfgh@cm-84.211.112.208.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd 17:49:29 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:33 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:38 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:49:38 <Fujikurax1337> hi. i need som help to setup a server in OpenTTD 17:50:38 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-152-93-63.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:50:55 <Fujikurax1337> anyone here done this before? 17:51:08 <__ln__> nobody, never 17:52:18 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:52:31 <Ammler> lol 17:53:30 <Fujikurax1337> arrgh. for what it says on the net is a mess 17:54:03 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-152-93-63.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 17:54:16 *** TWerkhoven2 is now known as TWerkhoven 17:54:35 <NGC3982> Fujikurax1337: really? 17:54:40 <NGC3982> Fujikurax1337: what operating system are you on? 17:54:55 <Ammler> you did not mention one issue, yet 17:54:56 <planetmaker> god created the hardware and wrote the software, and mixed it to an OpenTTD server. Thus the eigths day passed. 17:55:21 <NGC3982> (correction: seventeen years) 17:55:28 <Fujikurax1337> tried on Linux and win7. open port 3979 is done. 17:55:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A9D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:55:57 <glx> @ports 17:55:57 <DorpsGek> glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 17:56:12 <glx> it works for everyone else 17:56:56 <Ammler> your issue might be the forward from your router to your pc 17:57:15 <Ammler> but today router should have easy "game config wizards" :-) 17:58:09 <planetmaker> Fujikurax1337, the first questions coming to my mind are: 17:58:15 <planetmaker> - what documentation did you read? 17:58:22 <planetmaker> - what did you do in detail to make it work? 17:58:26 <planetmaker> - what did you see? 17:58:30 <planetmaker> - what did you expect to see? 17:58:38 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has joined #openttd 17:58:41 <planetmaker> literally. Not just qualitatively 18:00:12 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:00:19 *** Fujikurax13377 [~dfgh@cm-84.211.112.208.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd 18:00:22 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-74-73-93-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:01:33 <Fujikurax13377> But it's not like there to be only and press the multi-game and it's up and running? 18:02:09 <glx> no it's a real client-server 18:03:19 <glx> but if port 3979 is correctly forwarded it should just work 18:03:29 *** Fujikurax1337 [~dfgh@cm-84.211.112.208.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:52 <glx> the best test is to enable advertise and check http://servers.openttd.org 18:06:34 <glx> because with some crappy routers even if everything works you may not see your server from inside your network 18:07:28 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-74-73-93-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:07:45 <Ammler> Fujikurax13377: I would assume like with every other game server you setup or with torrents or other p2p 18:11:27 <planetmaker> mind that you allow port 3979 for both TCP and UDP in- and outgoing and port 3978 outgoing for both UDP and TCP 18:11:39 <planetmaker> on both your personal firewall as well your router's 18:11:59 <planetmaker> in 99% of the cases people swear they set all that, but find out they didn't ;-) 18:18:41 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-74-73-93-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:20:32 <Ammler> if you need to bother about outgoing, you stay in a strange place :-) 18:21:56 <Fujikurax13377> TCP/UDP 3979 18:29:02 <Fujikurax13377> in RUN i type in "openttd -d" then blabla... 18:29:42 <glx> -d is debug 18:29:54 <glx> you need -D for server 18:30:28 <glx> unless you start server via ingame gui 18:30:51 <Fujikurax13377> -D* 18:30:55 <planetmaker> windows users are usually blissfully ignorant of case :-) 18:32:22 <Fujikurax13377> is there any software I can use and set up an OpenTTD server? apart from the play itself. 18:32:42 <Fujikurax13377> for it does not work. 18:32:55 <glx> what does the console say when you start with -D ? 18:33:17 <glx> is there any advertising related lines ? 18:33:47 <Fujikurax13377> just a moment 18:34:08 <Fujikurax13377> okey 18:35:45 <Fujikurax13377> We are not recevingthe acknowledgement fromthe server. pleaseallpw udp and tcp packets to port 3979 to be delivered. 18:36:05 <Fujikurax13377> please allow* 18:37:19 <glx> ok, if forwarding is correct it's your ISP 18:37:24 *** morph__ [~4e547932@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:37:29 <Fujikurax13377> ISP is? :P 18:37:40 <glx> internet provider 18:37:44 <morph__> Anyone can send me Avignon installation for Linux (or source)? 18:37:55 <morph__> I can't find the god damn installation anywhere :( 18:41:23 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 18:41:36 <Fujikurax13377> that suck*. why so difficult.just want to play the game with a friend over the net. 18:43:12 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:44:00 <planetmaker> morph__: the authors are dihedral and Osai. Ask them 18:44:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24018 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 18:44:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:44:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 21 changes by mgarde 18:44:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 7 changes by OliTTD 18:44:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 8 changes by Phreeze 18:44:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 25 changes by mantaray 18:44:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tamil - 40 changes by aswn 18:44:23 <morph__> OK, thanks :) 18:44:23 <planetmaker> the page is down for ages, though 18:44:38 <morph__> I got to Google results page 15 18:44:49 <morph__> You know it doesn't exist when you get to page 2 to be honest 18:44:50 <morph__> :) 18:45:03 <planetmaker> yup 18:45:19 <planetmaker> and to my knowledge it never made it to a production-state 18:45:28 <planetmaker> or our server would use it ;-) 18:45:53 <morph__> I want ANYTHING that can help me add goal system to my server 18:45:56 <morph__> ANYTHING 18:46:14 <morph__> Im few steps from starting to code something myself 18:46:16 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd8bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:18 <glx> just write a game script 18:46:29 <planetmaker> morph__: goals are to be made with goal scripts 18:46:32 <morph__> Do those work in multiplayer? 18:46:36 <planetmaker> of course 18:46:53 <morph__> *having an idiot moment* 18:47:10 <morph__> What about the console commands ? 18:47:19 <morph__> Like I want to implement the good old !resetme 18:47:35 <planetmaker> that's not a goal :-) 18:47:37 <morph__> I can do it with the likes of Autopilot etc. only, amirite? 18:47:39 <planetmaker> that's work for the admin port 18:47:49 <morph__> Admin port? 18:48:11 <planetmaker> did you risk a look at the documentation which is shipped with openttd? 18:48:45 <planetmaker> admin port is what is meant as the better thing in order to not need a wrapper like ap+ 18:49:04 <planetmaker> I know two libraries, but no working bot connecting to the admin port 18:49:13 <planetmaker> well. a working dummy bot 18:49:23 <planetmaker> so you need to add what you actually want it to do. written in java 18:49:37 <planetmaker> called joan, also found on the devzone 18:50:21 <morph__> I will check it out 18:50:30 <morph__> Thanks 18:51:03 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:51:09 <morph__> Openttd is an addiction! 18:51:21 <planetmaker> if you extend it... please consider to publish your extensions 18:52:13 <planetmaker> dihedral, should consider to release joan under the agpl instead ;-) 18:58:39 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:02:29 <morph__> Please kill me - Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to hudson.dihedral.de 19:07:06 <Fujikurax13377> Friend has a different IPS and it worked either. He also opened port 3979. is there anything porgramvare that I can start a server that is easy? 19:07:45 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 19:07:58 <Fujikurax13377> programvare = software 19:31:54 *** welshdragon [~mark-oftc@welshdragon.zernebok.net] has quit [Killed (NickServ (Too many failed password attempts.))] 19:32:02 *** welshdragon [~mark-oftc@welshdragon.zernebok.net] has joined #openttd 19:32:33 *** Fujikurax13377 [~dfgh@cm-84.211.112.208.getinternet.no] has quit [] 19:34:48 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:34:51 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:35:03 <Alberth> moin 19:38:15 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 19:38:30 <Pikka> hmm @ youtube comments 19:39:16 <Pikka> good morning Alberth 19:39:20 <Alberth> you didn't assume they'd make any sense did you :) 19:39:29 <Pikka> often they don't 19:39:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: :) 19:39:50 <andythenorth> Pikka: often for a vanishingly large definition of often 19:39:59 <andythenorth> I assume they're just bots, spamming 19:40:05 <andythenorth> can't be actual humans that thick 19:40:08 <andythenorth> I never meet any 19:40:10 <Pikka> but this one is just... possibly one of the truest and least necessary things ever said. 19:40:34 <Pikka> "Mozart > Justin Bieber" 19:40:56 <Alberth> andythenorth: websites have not yet learned how to avoid such people :p 19:40:57 <andythenorth> I suspect a small number of hackers having a game of "turing test, but goal is to fake the stupidest person on planet" 19:41:22 <andythenorth> I grew up in a very rough place with some quite stupid people, but still not as stupid as youtube 19:41:43 <andythenorth> we had the highest murder rate in the country, 4th worst place to live, but still not as stupid as youtube 19:42:10 <Alberth> so it must be really bad in the other 3 places :) 19:42:19 <andythenorth> my wife is from one of them :P 19:42:20 <andythenorth> it's very odd 19:42:36 <Pikka> whence, andythenorth? 19:42:36 <andythenorth> anyway, andythenorth had a question for Alberth but has forgotten it :o 19:42:49 <andythenorth> Pikka: my wife? Merthyr 19:42:49 <Alberth> it'll come back 19:43:01 <Pikka> how rare 19:43:18 <andythenorth> Pikka: Mozart > Justin Bieber is at least logically sound 19:43:25 <Pikka> true 19:43:29 <andythenorth> the argument is a valid argument 19:43:31 <andythenorth> may not be true 19:43:44 <Pikka> well just how true it is is what shocks me 19:43:51 <Alberth> Mozart is probably less tall :D 19:43:59 <Pikka> certainly now, Alberth 19:44:18 <Alberth> minor detail :) 19:44:25 <Pikka> no decomposition jokes please 19:44:36 <andythenorth> oh that's the grue problem in philosophy 19:44:53 <andythenorth> can't remember it 19:44:57 <andythenorth> skipped some of that lecture 19:45:08 <andythenorth> I was present, just not...attending 19:45:18 <SpComb> it is dark 19:45:24 <andythenorth> I was physically co-located with a lecture, but not in it :P 19:45:47 <Pikka> you weren't paying attention is what you're saying, in essence. 19:46:29 <Alberth> he was paying attention to other things :p 19:47:34 <Pikka> whiskers on roses and raindrops on kittens? 19:48:00 <andythenorth> indeed 19:48:47 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 19:49:22 * Alberth installs blender 19:49:25 <andythenorth> maybe my question was 'how do I make it go faster' :P 19:49:41 <Pikka> stick ginger up its bum, I'm told 19:50:40 <andythenorth> ImportError: No module named ginger 19:51:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: oh I remember 19:52:01 <andythenorth> you told me some things a few nights ago - but left before I could say thanks ;) 19:52:06 <andythenorth> not a question 19:52:20 <andythenorth> I'm doing those things / have committed them already 19:53:33 <Alberth> yw, and I hope you like the improvements :) 19:56:49 <andythenorth> I learnt some new python 19:56:57 <andythenorth> I need to learn how to document class properly 19:57:01 <andythenorth> my docs are a mess 19:57:53 <andythenorth> extend() was new to me ;) 19:58:17 <Alberth> you wrote the 2nd program I used it in :) 19:58:39 <andythenorth> I got a ~50% speedup this afternoon 19:59:15 <Alberth> nice :) 19:59:48 <Alberth> as for documentation, I mentioned epydoc already iirc ;) 19:59:50 <andythenorth> yes 19:59:55 <andythenorth> I just need to learn the format 20:01:27 <andythenorth> it's also time to figure out how to structure the project so it has a config file, only builds what's needed etc 20:01:37 <andythenorth> currently I have to comment things in / out of main.py 20:01:44 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:02:53 <Alberth> @ivar / @type for instance variables, @param / @type for parameters, and @return / @rtype for return values. In the comment lines, C{foo} is 'code' / 'constant', and L{bar} creates a link to 'bar' 20:03:23 <andythenorth> the purpose of the link is...? 20:03:25 <Alberth> if you want to see how it looks just have epydoc generate some html for you :) 20:03:53 <andythenorth> I've seen it before - it's widely used? 20:04:07 <Alberth> links are for catching those mouse clicks :) 20:04:32 <andythenorth> oh ok link in the output 20:04:36 <Alberth> the other system is what Python itself uses, sphinx 20:05:14 <Alberth> links are also useful for saying 'this is documented elsewhere' as well 20:05:41 <Alberth> I hardly ever generate html, just the doc strings are sufficient for me 20:07:00 <Alberth> have not used sphinx much, iirc the format is a bit more free-style. I prefer a more fixed form, as it reduces the need to think about the format :p 20:07:37 <supermop> hi 20:07:45 <Alberth> hi supermop 20:07:57 <supermop> is Berlin nice in the summer? 20:08:26 <__ln__> it is 20:10:15 <andythenorth> it's fricking cold in winter 20:10:19 * andythenorth went there once 20:13:12 <Alberth> not much sea around Berlin :) 20:15:12 <supermop> i imagine that would keep it as bit too hot then 20:17:13 <__ln__> don't worry, the temperatures are a lot lower because of the Celsius scale being used rather than Fahrenheit. 20:19:34 <supermop> haha 20:20:23 <supermop> was eavesdropping on germans at lunch, and the weather was super nice today, so it made me think about visiting germany this summer 20:20:47 <supermop> berlin being the city i'd most want to visit as i've yet to see it 20:22:55 <__ln__> it is certainly a city worth visiting 20:24:22 <andythenorth> so what I can't figure out...is whether to make each gestalt completely self-contained 20:24:33 <andythenorth> and hard code in all the input files, paths, output filenames etc 20:24:33 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 20:24:42 <andythenorth> or whether to make them accept args 20:25:28 <andythenorth> and then how to call them with make, so multiple pixa scripts can run at once 20:26:22 <Alberth> euhm, if you use different filenames, you can run pixas in parallel whether or not they have arguments 20:27:48 <andythenorth> so I need to unconflate two things in my small brain 20:27:56 <andythenorth> (1) running in parallel 20:28:04 <andythenorth> (2) being able to have a specific script build only certain things 20:28:24 <andythenorth> both relate to reducing time for generation 20:28:44 <andythenorth> (1) is build faster... (2) is build less... :) 20:30:59 <__ln__> supermop: btw, i know a really nice hostel in Berlin.. (if a hostel is the kind of accommodation you would use) 20:32:12 <supermop> typically - not that old yet 20:33:28 <Alberth> andythenorth: using make for 2 eliminates the need to build it yourself. and it can do 1 too (somewhat limited, but sufficient for normal purposes) 20:33:56 <Alberth> the downside of using make is that you have to tell make what you want it to build 20:34:04 <andythenorth> I know :( 20:34:08 <andythenorth> and I don't know how to do that 20:34:09 <__ln__> supermop: ok, here it is: http://www.hostelworld.com/hosteldetails.php/Grand-Hostel-Berlin/Berlin/34160 (it's in the former american sector) 20:34:15 <andythenorth> I've read make docs before 20:34:24 <Alberth> do you have that information at all? 20:34:40 <andythenorth> I could work it out, if I knew what was needed 20:34:44 <andythenorth> compared to python multiprocessing module docs, make is opaque :P 20:34:58 <andythenorth> I even found a simple shell example to start n scripts in parallel :o 20:35:17 <Alberth> yeah, people do the strangest things :p 20:35:48 <Alberth> do you understand what is specifed in a Makefile? 20:35:54 <Alberth> *specified 20:35:58 <andythenorth> honestly, no 20:36:09 <Alberth> ok :) 20:36:16 <andythenorth> I've read the coop ones. I understand individual lines of code 20:36:31 <andythenorth> but the total pipeline / execution / stack / whatever - no clue 20:37:58 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: what's the startup overhead of pixa? 20:39:46 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: sorry, no idea :) 20:39:52 <andythenorth> profile it? 20:39:57 <Rhamphoryncus> Naw, easier 20:40:00 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 20:40:44 <Rhamphoryncus> Pick a moderate item (nothing too large or small), render it once (using timeit from the shell). Then do it again, but make it render 10 times 20:40:50 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:41:08 <Alberth> starting the python interpreter, and parsing/compiling the script file 20:41:40 <Rhamphoryncus> That's an option too 20:41:46 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 20:42:14 <Alberth> but startup should be almost nothing compared to the actual work 20:43:15 <Rhamphoryncus> Test it, don't assume :) 20:44:07 <andythenorth> 'timeit', or 'time' ? 20:44:29 <Rubidium> http://k1024.org/~iusty/blog/entry/perf-null/ ;) 20:44:33 <Rhamphoryncus> time, sorry 20:45:10 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 20:46:02 <Rubidium> so you're better off with perl as that uses much fewer instructions for hello world 20:46:21 <Rubidium> factor 5-60 20:46:29 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: interesting, thanks :) 20:48:26 * Rubidium thinks the number of executed instructions is roughly inversely proportional with the number of written/coded instructions 20:49:19 <Rhamphoryncus> heh 20:49:20 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: so I have test results for 1 and 10 renders 20:50:55 <andythenorth> 10: real 0m15.557s 20:51:10 <andythenorth> 1: real 0m1.607s 20:51:22 <Rubidium> <10% 20:51:22 <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh, that's pretty good then 20:51:59 <andythenorth> I did run a profile the other day 20:52:11 <andythenorth> at a rough guess, quite a lot of time is simply spent drawing 20:52:16 <andythenorth> no way around that element 20:52:21 <Rubidium> @calc (1607-15557/10)/1607 20:52:21 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 0.0319228375856 20:53:57 <andythenorth> hmm 20:54:06 <andythenorth> let's try the 'comment out lines' route to finding what's slow 20:54:21 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 20:55:40 <andythenorth> :o 20:56:12 <Pikka> :O 20:56:25 <andythenorth> for sx, sy, scol in sequence.get_recolouring(x, y, colourset): < takes 0.5s in my test case 20:56:52 <andythenorth> or roughly double the amount of time compared to that line commented out 20:57:12 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Makefile 101: A makefile contains two different kinds of information. The first kind is: File A depends on/can be created from files B, C, D. The second kind: By executing command X, a file with type .foo is transformed into a file with type .bar. Everything else is syntax details :) 20:57:28 <andythenorth> with the actual drawing commented in, time is about 1.5s 20:57:57 <Rhamphoryncus> I've gotten myself curious, so I'll see if I can provide you with a dummy makefile 20:58:23 <andythenorth> :) 20:58:33 * andythenorth is intrigued by why get_recolouring() is so slow 20:58:44 <andythenorth> quite likely I could cache what it's doing 20:59:06 <Rhamphoryncus> big question: is each job described in a separate file or are they all from a single config file? 21:00:10 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: this is unknown so far 21:00:16 <andythenorth> that's kind of my starting question :) 21:00:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Separate files is MUCH easier 21:00:34 <andythenorth> separate files makes sense 21:00:37 <Rhamphoryncus> as in C: foo.c produces foo.o 21:00:46 <andythenorth> separate files 21:03:27 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: in Java it does not make sense 21:03:56 <Rhamphoryncus> hmm? 21:04:32 <NGC3982> hm 21:04:39 <NGC3982> we have two stations 21:04:57 <NGC3982> one that recieves wheat/live, and another for the produced food 21:04:57 *** FHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 21:05:06 <NGC3982> suddenly, the produced food appears in the wheat/live station. 21:05:15 <NGC3982> they are next to each other. 21:05:16 <NGC3982> what to do? 21:05:51 <Rhamphoryncus> You have a train/vehicle that wasn't set to only unload in the wheat/livestock station, and was capable of loading food 21:05:59 <Rhamphoryncus> So it probably wasn't refit properly either 21:06:31 <Rhamphoryncus> So start by opening the station window, click the train icon, and go through everything that goes there 21:06:45 <Rhamphoryncus> An implicit order can also do it, if another train got lost and it's not non-stop 21:07:03 <NGC3982> i see 21:07:22 <Rhamphoryncus> After you've fixed all that.. destroy the station, rebuild a new one there (ctrl-click to avoid reusing the existing one), and swap over all the orders 21:08:19 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/rN3CD.png 21:08:26 <NGC3982> there it is 21:08:27 <NGC3982> Rhamphoryncus: i see. 21:08:31 <NGC3982> bah, crikey. 21:09:13 <Rhamphoryncus> These days I tend to go through and make sure all my orders are exact, to avoid such things. Lots more work upfront though. 21:10:59 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:11:19 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: an implicit order can not cause a vehicle to go to a wrong station 21:11:36 <Rubidium> a vehicle going to a wrong station will cause an implicit order to be inserted, though 21:11:36 <Rhamphoryncus> Implicit orders are the consequence of it 21:11:52 <Rhamphoryncus> Sorry, should have been more clear about that 21:13:02 <Rhamphoryncus> If a train isn't non-stop it reports where it stops using implicit orders, which you can look for. This applies if it's intentional and if it's lost 21:13:06 <andythenorth> :o 21:13:42 <andythenorth> @calc 4.230 - 1.897 21:13:42 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 2.333 21:14:00 <andythenorth> Alberth: that's how much time is spent in get_recolouring() 21:16:14 <andythenorth> about 1s of it is spent on transforms 21:16:17 <michi_cc> andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1189/ and http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1190/ 21:16:53 <andythenorth> ho 21:16:54 <andythenorth> thanks 21:16:55 <michi_cc> The basic syntax is "target: source" 21:17:43 <Rhamphoryncus> There's ways to avoid listing all the filenames though 21:18:14 <Alberth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1192/ <-- andythenorth more explanation :D 21:19:25 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:19:48 <michi_cc> Let's look at that backwards: Lines 6 and 7 tell us that gestalt_A/B.pytmpl somehow read or depend on input.png, so if input.ong is modified, those two gestalt files should be treated as modified as well. 21:20:39 <andythenorth> k 21:21:05 <michi_cc> Line 3 says: A file foobar.pytmpl can be transformed into foobar.png by executing the command "./pixa.sh -o $@ $<". $@ stands for the target (so foobar.png) and $< for the first source (so foobar.pytmpl). 21:22:54 * Alberth always does "echo $@ $<" as a first try, or uses 'make -n' (echo commands but do not exec) 21:23:57 <michi_cc> And the first lines tells make that in the end we want to have the files gestalt_A.png and gestalt_B.png. Make will by default create the first target it can find, so by insterting this 'dummy' line we can simply execute 'make' instead of 'make gestalt_A.png gestalt_B.png'. 21:25:05 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08f251.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:26:45 <michi_cc> If you allow make to operate in parallel (i.e pass the -j option), it will execute the two pixa.sh calls concurrently. 21:27:11 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd8bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:28:16 <andythenorth> k 21:28:24 <andythenorth> so... 21:28:37 <andythenorth> when generating ~3,000 pngs with auto-generated file names 21:29:13 <andythenorth> it will be interesting to set up the targets :o 21:29:35 <frosch123> the next steps are to autogenerate the nml code, to autostart a game, and to let an ai play with it :) 21:30:33 <Rhamphoryncus> 15 steps down the line we achieve singularity 21:31:00 <Alberth> frosch123: nah, a goal script to measure how fast you reach the goal, then build an optimizer loop :) 21:31:23 <frosch123> Alberth: you mean a goal script evaluating the ai? 21:31:30 <Alberth> yes 21:31:33 <michi_cc> andythenorth: The typical solution for that is a program/script that writes a file with "target: source1 source2" lines which is then included in the makefile. This is what e.g. the dep step in the makefile framework does. 21:32:31 <Alberth> andythenorth: GNU make has all kinds of text manipulation functions to construct names etc 21:32:49 <andythenorth> I might need to unpick some assumptions in my code to use these :| 21:33:14 <andythenorth> I have quite a lot of reliance on python structures to generate names 21:33:15 <Alberth> or generate a makefile, as michi said :) 21:33:38 <andythenorth> seems a bit chicken and egg :) 21:33:52 <Alberth> you only need one Makefile ;) 21:34:23 <andythenorth> I could teach pixa to optionally generate only the filenames 21:34:43 <andythenorth> also I think the output files will need to be committed to the repo 21:34:48 <Alberth> eg gcc/g++ has a -M option to generate dependencies 21:37:30 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:37:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A9D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:24 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:40:33 * andythenorth reads about -M 21:42:24 <Alberth> -MM is more useful, as it does not include the system header files 21:44:13 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 21:44:32 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:45:59 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 21:46:11 <Alberth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1193/ <-- andythenorth would this work as speedup? 21:47:02 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:47:29 <Alberth> good night 21:47:43 <andythenorth> bye Alberth 21:50:20 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:50:24 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 21:51:03 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:52:00 <morph__> Working version of TCL+Expect for Autopilot+ 4.0? 21:52:15 <morph__> Im getting segmentation faults and whatnot with 8.3, 8.4, 8.5 22:01:23 <morph__> VICTORY! :D 22:01:32 <morph__> Autopilot works. Only took 2 days 22:07:23 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:08:16 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 22:08:21 <NGC3982> Rhamphoryncus: are you sure we have to destroy the station? 22:08:35 <NGC3982> Rhamphoryncus: its a damn lot of trains without shared orders :( 22:08:37 <Rhamphoryncus> NGC3982: that gets it to stop delivering to that station 22:09:05 <Rhamphoryncus> That does suck 22:09:05 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/rN3CD.png <- as you see on the "dropoff" and the "pickup" stations. 22:09:08 <NGC3982> oh god. 22:10:17 <NGC3982> though, as i recall: if i destroy a station and quickly replace it, the material parked on it disappear, but the name remains? 22:11:10 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:11:29 <Pikka> the material will remain too 22:14:56 <morph__> can't find package irc while executing "package require irc" 22:15:03 <morph__> Any ideas? (Autopilot+) 22:15:34 <NGC3982> Pikka: we noticed :( 22:21:25 * andythenorth needs to make sleep, not war 22:21:44 <andythenorth> good and also bye 22:21:45 <Pikka> night andy 22:22:04 <planetmaker> sleep well, andy 22:28:54 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:29:14 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 22:29:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:32:18 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:32:56 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 22:44:46 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:45:04 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd8bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:40 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:54:49 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:57:35 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:25 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 23:06:48 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178196062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:07:45 *** morph__ [~4e547932@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:11:06 *** George is now known as Guest5550 23:11:09 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 23:13:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.182.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.182.59] has joined #openttd 23:17:35 *** Guest5550 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:34 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-195-133.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:39:37 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-162-244.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:20 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:30 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.69.113] has joined #openttd 23:45:32 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:47:34 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.73.49] has joined #openttd 23:48:14 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:51:03 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-195-133.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:04 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:53:04 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.69.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:58:07 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.231] has joined #openttd