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has joined #openttd 10:52:34 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 11:04:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 11:16:07 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:16:27 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-163-202.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:20:32 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-32-207.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:21:54 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd [Killed buffer] 11:22:26 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:28:25 *** Firartix [~artixds@147.215.81.100] has joined #openttd 11:41:27 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 11:42:23 *** Firartix [~artixds@147.215.81.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:54:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:09:48 <rane> do people generally play with breakdowns on or off? 12:10:43 <rane> it feels that breakdowns screw things up a bit 12:12:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know about "people", but i myself play generally with breakdowns off 12:17:29 <planetmaker> on the coop servers breakdowns are always off 12:21:46 <rane> did this yesterday and realized it's not very efficient when i finally started transporting the goods http://cl.ly/0x3m3U0p0N1p201z460g/o 12:21:48 <rane> need to l2p 12:22:48 <Rhamphoryncus> I suspect the majority turns them off 12:23:40 <Mazur> What's the use of building a good network if half the time it's clogged with broken down engines? 12:23:56 <Mazur> One can learn nothing by it. 12:24:04 <rane> yeah⊠12:24:16 <Rhamphoryncus> wth is with that double tunnel just left of the factory? 12:24:40 <Mazur> You never find out the real flaws or bottlenecks, because there are not trains running, and all the queues are because of breakdowns. 12:24:42 <rane> you don't like my double tunnel? 12:24:47 <rane> Mazur: good point 12:24:50 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, broken down engines do nothing but reduce your throughput by a large factor. There's no nuance to managing them. 12:25:08 <Mazur> Of course it's a good point, it's my point. 12:25:12 <Rhamphoryncus> If it had a signal between tunnelheads I'd like it 12:25:12 <Mazur> :-P 12:25:57 <Rhamphoryncus> And they force you to use depots regularly, but since they're so slow you end up having legions of them 12:26:17 <MNIM> mehhh, where's the improved breakdowns? 12:26:25 <Mazur> That problem can be mitigated with Service Centres. 12:27:18 <Rhamphoryncus> Service centres, more intelligent pathing, and improved breakdowns. 12:44:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:54:44 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-37.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 12:58:54 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 13:12:24 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5178:8126:b750:e291] has joined #openttd 13:12:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:27:21 *** Guest5918 is now known as Markk 13:37:54 <Belugas> hello 13:44:55 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-239-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 13:47:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:15:35 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 14:17:42 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:41 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083eab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:39:35 <dihedral> oi 14:41:47 *** Firartix [~artixds@www.clubnix.fr] has joined #openttd 14:43:25 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-158-57.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 14:51:25 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:56:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:01:37 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-239-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 15:14:45 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:22:44 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> charon.oftc.net quits: tparker, @Belugas, @orudge, supermop, tokai|mdlx, mikegrb, Lachie, CIA-1, namad7, EyeMWing, (+8 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 15:23:30 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-215-227.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:23:36 *** Netsplit over, joins: supermop, @Belugas, @orudge, Sacro, EyeMWing, Lachie, Born_Acorn, kkb110, tokai|mdlx, namad7 (+8 more) 15:24:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 15:24:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ 15:25:27 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-163-202.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 483 seconds] 15:26:40 <planetmaker> we've a winner of the titlegame contest: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=57555&p=1000663#p1000663 15:26:57 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-25-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:27:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 15:27:27 <Rhamphoryncus> nice :D 15:29:17 <SpComb> +1 for that station entrance junction layout 15:31:22 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-215-227.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:33:51 <Rhamphoryncus> 4 different directions? 15:35:07 <Rhamphoryncus> 5 15:36:32 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 15:37:09 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:41:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:41:19 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:51 <Eddi|zuHause> damn, forgot to vote... 15:45:26 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-239-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 15:50:52 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 16:05:47 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-158-57.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 16:09:10 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest6124 16:09:10 *** Guest6124 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:10:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 16:13:22 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-158-57.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 16:23:54 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:26:37 *** evdvelde [~evdvelde@143.129.80.37] has joined #openttd 16:27:40 <evdvelde> hi all, do the towers in the game have a certain meaning? or are they just decoration that stands in the way? :) 16:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 16:28:17 <Eddi|zuHause> they have the meaning that they stand in the way :p 16:28:24 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:29:10 <evdvelde> Eddi|zuHause: oh funny, mock me :( 16:29:11 <evdvelde> ;) 16:30:10 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178219077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:23 <evdvelde> some cities keep finding me appaling, even though i have done advertising campains, planted trees and my businesses there get a good rating, how can i fix this? feels like a bug, but it could be my mistake too :) 16:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> advertising campaign doesn't change town rating 16:31:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planting trees only helps on tiles that didn't have a tree before 16:31:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "good service" is irrelevant, "frequent service" is important 16:31:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. don't have a station that is rarely visited, only have stations that are visited often 16:31:54 <evdvelde> there was also mentioned bribing somewhere in the wiki, but cant find that 16:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "visited" means "at least one piece of cargo loaded or unloaded" 16:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that has to be enabled in advanced settings 16:32:27 <evdvelde> i was going to open a station that was going to be visited often, but they deny me to :) 16:32:49 <Eddi|zuHause> rule #1: first build station, then build infrastructure 16:32:50 <evdvelde> and it does not get better over time it seems, so there is nothing i can do? 16:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> rule #2: first build bus service, then build train station 16:33:11 <evdvelde> and go more slowly probably 16:33:41 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have a significant number of bus stations, that are visited regularly, then the rating is up in no time 16:36:06 <evdvelde> ah, thx, that will help Eddi|zuHause 16:36:57 <Rhamphoryncus> I'll quite often throw a pair of bus depots in every town I'm building near, just to make sure it never becomes an issue 16:37:06 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 16:37:14 <Rhamphoryncus> Lately I've been trying mail instead, since that should require less service 16:37:43 <evdvelde> Rhamphoryncus: how do you mean less service Rhamphoryncus 16:37:59 <evdvelde> I tend to let my busses and trucks take care of themselves :) 16:38:20 <Rhamphoryncus> Less volume so as the town grows I won't need to add as many more 16:39:44 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178241062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:42:03 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-239-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:47:42 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-24-105.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 16:48:56 <evdvelde> i have to say that i like not only the game but also the community :) 16:49:39 <evdvelde> many friendly people around here 16:51:57 <planetmaker> you haven't yet met the grumpy part :-P 16:52:52 <evdvelde> so i dare to ask one last question for today :-) is there a way to automate servicing/replacing better? especially replacing is inconvenient with many buses etc 16:53:06 <evdvelde> planetmaker: i'll try to keep it that way then :D 16:53:26 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-25-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:53:27 <planetmaker> there's an autoreplace feature. 16:53:34 <planetmaker> and autorenew 16:53:56 <planetmaker> Servicing is done automatically, if depots are available. Or done as you order, if you include at least one depot order in the order list 16:54:15 <planetmaker> but then it's only done at the time where the schedule tells the vehicle to service 16:54:38 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Autoreplace and autorenew respectively 16:54:56 <evdvelde> so autorenew is an option i just have enable in the advanced game options? i encountered that, i think 16:55:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:55:29 <planetmaker> no. In the vehicle list 16:55:55 <planetmaker> well, see the wiki page. It illustrates it 16:55:58 <evdvelde> ah... i see... thanks a lot! 16:57:30 <evdvelde> it is autorenew that is an option :) 16:58:24 <planetmaker> ah, yes 16:58:33 <planetmaker> too similar words ;-) 17:01:38 <andythenorth> maybe auto-replace and auto-renew should be merged 17:02:01 <planetmaker> yes 17:02:25 <planetmaker> @seen someone 17:02:25 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: someone was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 21 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 23 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Someone> indeed 17:02:30 <planetmaker> old slacker him 17:04:25 *** Firartix [~artixds@www.clubnix.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:16 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:05:29 <andythenorth> maybe everything in that area is just consist management 17:08:17 <evdvelde> i would prefer to have a lot of automated management, allowing me to do macromanagement and building mostly 17:11:10 <planetmaker> I tend to agree, andythenorth 17:11:25 <planetmaker> evdvelde, isn't that macro-management? 17:11:35 <planetmaker> You select a global replacement rule for all your vehicles? 17:12:06 <evdvelde> planetmaker: yes, that is one of the things i have just found out indeed and i love it :) 17:12:15 <andythenorth> or vehicles in arbitrary groups 17:12:54 <planetmaker> yup 17:13:12 <andythenorth> seems so simple 17:13:20 <rane> does coal mine produce more stuff over time if you maintain a high transported percentage? because this coal mine has 500t which is quite a lot 17:13:22 <andythenorth> shall we code it for 2.0? 17:14:23 <andythenorth> hmm. This baby is *very* loud 17:14:26 <evdvelde> the grouping thing would be great too :) especially if you want e.g. to upgrade one part of your network to monorail first 17:16:03 <andythenorth> planetmaker: does TTDP have consists? 17:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> rane: basically, yes 17:16:15 <planetmaker> rane, the max. is about 2000t / month 17:16:33 <rane> what are some tricks to be efficient 17:16:40 <rane> i try to have a train loading all the time 17:16:45 <planetmaker> that suffices 17:17:21 <planetmaker> it's a random walk with about 2/3 chance to go up, if your transported % is > 60% 17:17:30 <andythenorth> if the goal for 2.0 is to merge TTDP into OTTD, then consists might not be allowed yet 17:17:54 <planetmaker> nah, the goal for 2.0 is a web app :-P 17:18:09 <evdvelde> i saw there is even an android app :) 17:18:14 <MNIM> oh, I thought the goal for 2.0 was virtual reality? 17:18:21 <planetmaker> yes, also 17:18:26 <evdvelde> but there the screenie is a bit too small :D 17:18:32 <planetmaker> though it might be post-poned to 3.0 ;-) 17:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: by the time that gets out, we already have web 3.0 :p 17:18:50 <MNIM> exactly :P 17:18:56 <andythenorth> no no, the goal for 2.0 is merging in TTDP, that has now been decided 17:19:03 <andythenorth> as it it causing big issues in the community 17:19:07 <evdvelde> what about better gfx first? i like old school, but it is, well... very old school ;) 17:19:11 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 17:19:17 <andythenorth> and lack of merged in TTD makes developing newgrfs very hard 17:19:19 <planetmaker> evdvelde, yes... get drawing! 17:19:24 <planetmaker> (or modelling) 17:19:34 <planetmaker> I even pledge to code 17:19:58 <evdvelde> perhaps i'll start coding, drawing is not my strong suit anyhow 17:20:00 <MNIM> andythenorth: in relation to your earlier comment about loud babies, that means they either need food, clean diapers or mommy. all three is good too, of course 17:20:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there won't be a 2.0... we go 1.3, 1.4, ... and then decide to drop the 1, and go 5.0, 6.0, ... 17:20:52 <planetmaker> that'd be FireTTD 17:22:58 <Rubidium> andythenorth: but there'll never be a merged TTD 17:23:13 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 17:23:14 <Rubidium> there'll always be something OpenTTD doesn't/can't do what TTDPatch can 17:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> unifiedmaglev!! 17:23:28 <MNIM> why don't you just adopt a ubuntu-like release schedule? make a new version every (half) year or so, what you've got a month before the deadline is your beta, then you make it stable. 17:23:29 <rane> continuing on what i just asked, does this mean that it's worthwhile to transport stuff from even quite low production industries in hopes to increase it? 17:23:44 <MNIM> without ubuntu's silly shenanigans of course. 17:23:55 <Rubidium> MNIM: we have an ubuntu like release schedule 17:23:57 <MNIM> please no unity or 'long term support' betas :P 17:24:11 <Rubidium> just it's a 12 month cycle 17:24:15 <MNIM> oh, I thought you didn't have a fixed schedule 17:24:34 <MNIM> then, disregard that, I am a dog. 17:24:38 * MNIM barks. 17:24:42 <Rubidium> well, it's not 100% fixed 17:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> we don't. it's just coincidence that our versions were released on the same date every year 17:24:48 <Rubidium> but neither is Ubuntu's 17:24:50 <MNIM> lol 17:25:00 <MNIM> well, it's the intention, at least 17:25:27 <Rubidium> Ubuntu's release dates are actually less predictable than ours 17:25:51 <Rubidium> anyhow, DD was two months late 17:26:00 <andythenorth> we ship on time :) 17:26:02 <planetmaker> it's imho a good thing to have a reasonably fast cycle. Slower than one year is... not nice or wouldn't be nice given the amount of things that change 17:26:03 * andythenorth doesn't :P 17:26:44 * andythenorth has just moved a commercial software from 1 year releases to monthly 17:26:50 <andythenorth> too early to tell if that was dumb 17:26:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A360.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:26:55 <Rubidium> oh bugger... an OSX bug at the top of the bug list again :( 17:27:03 <planetmaker> monthly releases? 17:27:09 <andythenorth> 12x the deployment work, 12x the client management hassle 17:27:21 <andythenorth> but newer features for clients sooner 17:28:24 <MNIM> Rubidium: I take it you can't just drop OSX alltogether and tell people to use WINE or whatsthatstuffonappleagain? 17:28:37 <andythenorth> you could 17:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: we did that 17:29:19 <Rubidium> MNIM: problem is that not making OSX binaries gives even more whining :( 17:29:21 <planetmaker> MNIM, and what's the gain? 17:29:37 <planetmaker> I guess I might w(h)ine :-P 17:29:40 <Rubidium> planetmaker: not releasing something with known crasher bugs 17:30:02 <planetmaker> we don't support 10.6 officially anyway ;-) 17:30:32 <Rubidium> yeah, lets start closing everything that's using an unsupported version 17:30:43 <planetmaker> :-D 17:32:00 <MNIM> stop putting up the osx release next to the other releases on the main site but hide them in the forum below a big post about how you should not be posting bug reports about it. 17:32:13 <planetmaker> not helpful, MNIM 17:32:36 <Rubidium> MNIM: then you'll have (almost) daily posts all over the forum where to find it 17:33:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CD13.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:33:33 <Rubidium> for some reason I've got the feeling that a significant (or at least very vocal) part of OSX users are worse at using the search than others 17:34:17 <MNIM> give it a splash screen on startup with a scrollable text with an ok button at the bottom 17:34:35 <Rubidium> MNIM: great idea... just code and test it please 17:34:51 * planetmaker would also put that into a special release for MNIM 17:34:59 <MNIM> D: 17:35:03 <MNIM> coding scares me. 17:35:06 <FLHerne> Have you considered supporting Mac OS 7? :P 17:35:12 <planetmaker> FLHerne, yes 17:35:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Change the download patch to be a warning first. "We don't have any active maintainers for OSX. Don't bother posting bugs unless you're volunteering to fix them. 17:35:27 <planetmaker> But I decided it's more work than OSX 10.7 ;-) 17:35:44 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, also that's not helpful 17:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "Former vice president Dick Cheney cancelled an appearance in Toronto for fear of 'violent protests'" 17:35:55 <planetmaker> Knowing about the bugs IS helpful 17:36:08 <evdvelde> oh one more thing... you dont get a pop up when a town gives a subsidy, do you? 17:36:09 <Rhamphoryncus> I can't tell which comments are serious and which aren't :) 17:36:19 <Rubidium> problem is that NOBODY cared about fixing Mac OS X for the last half year, besides fixing compile errors on the compile farm 17:36:33 * planetmaker feels guilty 17:36:42 <FLHerne> planetmaker - Yes, but I have 7.6 and not 10.7. Therefore you must support 7.6 first :D 17:36:52 <evdvelde> planetmaker: who cares about osx anyway, right? ;) 17:36:57 <MNIM> evdvelde: depends on your message settings, but it should in default, as far as Im aware. 17:37:05 <Rubidium> and then there was a slight spur of trying to get it to somewhat not crash/fail immediately on 10.7, and then again a long void of nothingness 17:37:14 <planetmaker> evdvelde, let's say: I'd not play the game if it were not available thereon ;-) 17:37:20 <planetmaker> nor would I be here right now 17:38:10 <planetmaker> It still has a lot of deprecation warnings if linked directly to 10.7, too 17:38:33 <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: sounds like a toned down message at the download screen WOULD be helpful. Put the emphasis on wanting a volunteer to maintain it, rather than discouraging bugs. 17:38:36 <Rubidium> that is: working on OSX: sept 2011, dec 2010 17:38:54 <evdvelde> planetmaker: woops :) 17:39:09 <Rhamphoryncus> Which serves to advertise the need to everybody that wants to use it on OSX 17:39:55 <Rubidium> and there's a message on the front page for a very long time asking for help with OSX... result: nothing 17:39:59 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you can safely ignore deprecation warnings. 17:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: until 10.8 :p 17:40:08 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes and no. ^^ 17:40:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.161.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:14 <planetmaker> that's the whole point 17:40:41 <planetmaker> and obviously the full screen stuff works quite differently on 10.7. Thus... doesn't quite work in its current implementation 17:41:05 <planetmaker> it's yet another completely new API for that 17:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but that will have a gpl-incompatible app-store and only allow signed programs, so there's no need to "support" it anyomre :p 17:41:21 <planetmaker> that indeed might be true 17:41:46 *** Firartix [~artixds@147.215.81.100] has joined #openttd 17:42:43 <Rubidium> so is that the third or fourth different video backend API in 4 releases? 17:42:45 <planetmaker> my main issue with fixing stuff is that it depends so incredibly much on the hardware. Many bugs happen on some but not on others... 17:42:54 <planetmaker> That's something I don't quite know how to test 17:43:00 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:43:17 <Rubidium> which basically means that OSX does not abstract hardware properly 17:43:32 <Rubidium> or that their drivers simply suck 17:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yay for the benefit of reduced types of hardware for osx systems 17:43:57 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:44:18 <planetmaker> They do... I have other programmes which crash somewhere deep in CoreAudio... 17:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause> they basically missed 20 years of hardware abstraction layers 17:45:22 <Eddi|zuHause> oh i miss the days when the first thing you did when installing a game was searching the setup for your graphics and sound card :p 17:46:28 <MNIM> I used to have a book for one old windows 3.11 PC that served that purpose, I think :P 17:47:19 <planetmaker> in any case, my decision kinda is to spend time on trying to improve the base graphics or the mac port 17:47:44 <planetmaker> tbh, I have and had the feeling that last year my time was better spent on the base graphics 17:48:15 <planetmaker> thus that's what I mostly did 17:50:13 <planetmaker> it also feels more rewarding. As at least a few people care. But indeed non about the macport 17:50:40 <planetmaker> which always only incurs negative feedback. 17:50:45 <planetmaker> Which is bad karma 17:51:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you mean karma 17:51:39 <planetmaker> oh, I did. Though it doesn't fit ;-) 17:55:13 <Rubidium> the OSX port has always been plagued with issues 17:55:24 <Rubidium> not sure what the actual cause is 17:56:13 <Rubidium> though given the number of i* apps, there should be plenty of developers familiar with OSX 17:56:50 <Rubidium> and Macs used to be for hippies, just like open source people are somewhat hippie-ish as well 17:57:03 <Rubidium> so where is the mismatch? 17:57:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f441b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:58:04 *** evdvelde [~evdvelde@143.129.80.37] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:58:08 <Rubidium> or is developing on OSX such a drama that you only do it once you get paid? 17:59:02 <planetmaker> I don't have the feeling that it is more of a drama than other OS' device SDKs 17:59:33 <planetmaker> One of the issues here indeed seems to be that the underlying foundations change at a much faster pace than on windoze and linux 17:59:45 <planetmaker> Thus you'll have to rewrite part of the OS layer each year 17:59:57 <planetmaker> None of that is necessary in this extend for linux and windows 18:00:13 <andythenorth> same reason I'm not developing children's games to sell on iOS :P 18:00:16 <planetmaker> Thus, of course, the amount of bugs due to these changes increases at least proportionally 18:00:19 <andythenorth> apple will shaft you at no warning 18:01:24 <Rubidium> it's disruptive for no real reason 18:01:47 <planetmaker> there's an incredible amount of #if OSX_VERSION_AT_LEAST(a,b,c) ... #endif 18:01:52 <glx> planetmaker: on windows you can still use win9x way for most things 18:01:58 <planetmaker> exactly 18:02:15 <planetmaker> while the 10.3 framework is inaccessible to at least 50% in 10.7 18:02:23 <SpComb> ifdef is your friend 18:02:45 <SpComb> couldn't you just shift off all the compatibility issues to SDL or something? 18:02:52 <andythenorth> hmm 18:03:08 <planetmaker> yes. If the SDL port on OSX wouldn't have its own very bad issues 18:03:15 <Rubidium> SpComb: SDL fails majorly on OSX 18:03:15 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:23 <planetmaker> yes, you can compile an SDL version on OSX 18:03:31 <planetmaker> It works... to some extent 18:03:59 <planetmaker> Rubidium, it actually *might* have gotten a bit better, though I didn't test properly 18:04:00 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:04:01 <Rubidium> as long as you like not using palettes IIRC 18:04:17 <Rubidium> and IIRC it was significantly slower as well 18:04:23 <planetmaker> that indeed 18:04:33 <planetmaker> which also is the reason on windows to use GDI 18:05:26 * andythenorth doesn't have AI crash on 10.6.8 18:05:31 *** flaa_ [~flaa@89.101.93.77] has joined #openttd 18:06:02 <planetmaker> yeah... it's another of those "it crashes" (but I don't tell you how nor provide more info) reports 18:06:23 <andythenorth> I read the crash log, means nothing to me 18:06:30 <planetmaker> oh, he posted one? 18:06:38 <andythenorth> yup 18:06:58 <Rubidium> useless... 18:07:07 <planetmaker> yes 18:07:11 <Rubidium> you've been thrown under the bus 18:07:30 <planetmaker> sounds like invalid read somewhere... 18:07:34 * andythenorth never has any OS X issues 18:07:36 <andythenorth> which is bully for me 18:07:39 <andythenorth> :P 18:07:51 <andythenorth> you can guess I'd mention it if I did :P 18:08:22 <andythenorth> I didn't test with 1.1.5 stable though 18:08:28 <Rubidium> looks like 4689 18:08:49 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:08:52 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:09:01 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:09:11 <Alberth> efenink 18:09:22 <planetmaker> good point, Rubidium 18:09:26 <planetmaker> hello Alberth 18:09:44 <Rubidium> having said that, it might be something *completly* else 18:11:30 <andythenorth> oh yeah, I can replicate 4689 btw ;) 18:11:46 * andythenorth never uses full screen mode, totally slows down development :P 18:12:31 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-4.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:15:15 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 18:16:36 <andythenorth> Alberth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/pixa/repository ;) 18:19:35 <planetmaker> andythenorth, indeed. And even then... it makes switching to other things sooo tedious. 18:19:47 <planetmaker> And even when I play. Then all other com channels would be blocked. 18:19:53 <planetmaker> which'd be bad, too 18:20:05 <andythenorth> is it acceptable to lock out features on some platforms? 18:20:24 <planetmaker> it's done... 18:20:30 <planetmaker> but not nice 18:20:36 <andythenorth> not productive long term either 18:20:42 <planetmaker> yep 18:20:47 <andythenorth> just incurring variation which incurs support and technical debt 18:20:53 <andythenorth> variation => bad 18:21:34 <andythenorth> but crashes => bad 18:22:36 <Terkhen> hello 18:22:54 <andythenorth> o/ 18:24:54 * Rubidium is sad that base graphics downloading is not working for OSX 18:25:02 <andythenorth> that is sad 18:25:20 <Rubidium> as OSX is the only platform for which the prefered way of installing does not provide graphics 18:25:23 <andythenorth> I could try to fix these things, but I'd be so out of my depth... 18:25:35 <andythenorth> it would become 'other people code, andy types it into his mac' 18:26:06 <Rubidium> although... OpenTTD installation on OSX isn't done by the prefered way anyhow 18:26:17 <planetmaker> what's the preferred way? 18:26:32 <Rubidium> double click on dmg I'd say 18:26:34 <andythenorth> hg clone, make run -j13 :P 18:26:56 <Rubidium> instead of unzipping some file and then doing something with it 18:27:22 <planetmaker> I'd say the 'preferred' way is to download something, click it, get a window which tells you to drag something inside it to the Application folder. And then be done 18:27:40 <andythenorth> how much is a used mac anyway? 18:27:57 <Rubidium> too many sanity points for me 18:28:24 <Rubidium> 50 euros 18:29:08 <planetmaker> well. Either people hate mac. Or they love it. Usually. There's only very few who are not emotional there 18:29:10 <Rubidium> with OS 6 18:29:15 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:29:27 <andythenorth> the answer is 'way too much' :P 18:29:44 <andythenorth> I'm selling this mac and getting a new one if ebay is any guide 18:29:59 <andythenorth> I lose £200 on it 18:30:18 <Rubidium> a G5 still costs 250 euro? 18:30:42 <andythenorth> dunno 18:30:57 <andythenorth> we've got a dual G5 in our office somewhere, and some flat panel imacs 18:31:26 <FLHerne> They're quite expensive. I was thinking of buying one, but I don't have the money 18:32:06 <andythenorth> sell mine for £950, buy the newest for £1150 :P 18:32:19 <andythenorth> but will it run ottd faster? :P 18:32:24 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: fullscreen mode is broken for me. If I drag the map the mouse hits the edge and stops 18:33:09 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: which bug is that on the tracker? 18:33:20 <Alberth> andythenorth: lol, the license file is bigger than the source code :p 18:33:21 <Rhamphoryncus> boo :) 18:33:28 <andythenorth> Alberth: :) 18:33:49 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: I can't replicate that 18:34:02 <Rhamphoryncus> I'll report it after I've finished writing up my current patch. It's much more interesting *g* 18:34:29 <andythenorth> although it did screw with my crazy 'adjust monitor to room light settings' app 18:34:36 <andythenorth> my screen is now totally orange 18:35:04 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:32 <Rhamphoryncus> heh 18:36:00 <andythenorth> Alberth: pixa would benefit from bettter layout, possibly splitting code (might be overkill), and....I need to document it :| 18:36:16 <andythenorth> but otherwise I met all the use cases I had 18:36:30 <andythenorth> biab 18:36:32 <andythenorth> bath time 18:36:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:37:42 *** cl8 [~cl8@host-92-3-253-43.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 18:40:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:40:30 <Alberth> that's quick :p 18:42:47 <andythenorth> he's refusing to clean his teeth unless I make choo choos in ottd 18:42:51 <andythenorth> this is not good 18:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that is probably your own fault :p 18:43:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24027 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt czech.txt latvian.txt ukrainian.txt): 18:43:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:43:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 10 changes by VoyagerOne 18:43:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by Eskymak 18:43:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 4 changes by Parastais 18:43:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 1 changes by edd_k 18:43:50 <Rhamphoryncus> There we go. Be happy it's not animated :D http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5101/getfile/8220/Skyscrapist%20inc.,%202316-12-02.png 18:44:04 * NGC3982 feels alone in ursa major 18:44:11 * NGC3982 asks planetmaker to make a new system. 18:46:35 <Alberth> andythenorth: some examples and/or a regression test would be useful too :) 18:46:59 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium, andythenorth: wtf, I just tried scrolling in fullscreen and it worked fine. :P Did that code get any attention in the last month or so? 18:47:01 <andythenorth> Alberth: +1 18:47:07 <andythenorth> hmm 18:47:11 <andythenorth> he's learnt to say 'plane' 18:47:37 <andythenorth> my pixa time is limited now, I had two weeks holiday, but now I have to work 9am-10pm daily 18:48:07 <Rhamphoryncus> 13 hours? :O 18:48:19 <Alberth> that's a bad trade :( 18:48:42 <andythenorth> I have ~4 hours off in the middle to do kid stuff 18:48:45 <andythenorth> could be worse 18:48:54 <andythenorth> but not much python coding time :( 18:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause> you should work 9pm-10pm 18:49:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that is a nice idea :) 18:49:18 <Rhamphoryncus> ahhh, 9 hours with a 4 hour break in the middle 18:49:19 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: we'd all like that :) 18:49:38 * NGC3982 sings a shakespearian tune on being a lony spiral galaxy. 18:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> 9h is still quite a long working day 18:49:48 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: 13 with break == 9 hours without 18:50:03 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: I believe I said that ;) 18:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause> from the "average" job i'd expect 7h + 1h break 18:50:24 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: I read it otherwise :) 18:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: your statement was ambiguous 18:51:01 * Rhamphoryncus throws peanuts 18:51:32 * Belugas reaches out from the depths and snaps on the peanuts 18:51:38 * Rhamphoryncus also straps Eddi in front of his seizure inducer 18:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a Rama-Forunkel anyway? 18:52:13 <Alberth> Belugas: be quick, or andy's kid eats them all 18:52:25 <Rhamphoryncus> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhamphorhynchus 18:52:48 <Belugas> :) 18:52:56 <Belugas> hi sir Alberth :) 18:53:17 <Rhamphoryncus> Belugas: you only need to get the ones that land high up. Kids are quite happy to eat peanuts off the floor and behind the couch. 18:53:57 <Belugas> urgh... mine takes them from the bag only... 18:54:03 <Belugas> and gives me those from the floor 18:54:06 <Rhamphoryncus> lol 18:57:09 * andythenorth has been learning just how much previously chewed food he will eat 18:57:14 <andythenorth> > a bit 18:57:20 <andythenorth> < all 18:57:45 <andythenorth> cheese is definitely acceptable, and chocolate, and melon 18:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause> not a thought i typically have... 19:00:59 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-108-222.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 19:02:37 <andythenorth> you have cats? passably close... 19:04:26 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:05:35 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:06:00 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 19:29:40 *** Noldo [~vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has joined #openttd 19:35:32 <Rhamphoryncus> As opposed to dogs who'll eat anything 19:38:08 <Alberth> andythenorth: PixaImageLoader self.mask does not seem used 19:38:40 <andythenorth> I thought BANDIT used it :o 19:39:23 <Alberth> neither is self.origin 19:39:30 <andythenorth> L75 in flat_trailer.py 19:39:33 <andythenorth> (for mask) 19:40:36 <andythenorth> I have an odd pattern where I 'parent' an options object to the PixaImageLoader obj 19:40:47 <andythenorth> I'm sure there's a better way, it was duck tape 19:42:28 <Alberth> that's setting it; I was talking about use :p pixa.py line 254 self.mask = mask is the only place where self.mask is mentioned 19:42:47 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-122-215.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:43:03 <andythenorth> possibly I did bad :o 19:44:03 <Alberth> test whether make_points gets new values for mask & origin? 19:44:31 <andythenorth> I'll have to add this to my TODO :) 19:44:39 * Alberth fixes it :) 19:44:50 <andythenorth> thanks 19:44:59 <andythenorth> you should see the worse thing I did :) 19:45:25 <andythenorth> this makes a dep list out of nfo 19:45:26 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1220/ 19:45:36 <andythenorth> it's insanely faster than nmlc for the same task 19:46:25 <andythenorth> I figured wrt generating png filenames, the grf should just encode what it expects to see, then I parse that 19:46:36 <Alberth> len(line.split('.png')) <-- '.png' in line ? 19:46:50 <andythenorth> yup 19:46:51 <andythenorth> the first time the grf tries to compile, it explodes due to missing pngs :) 19:46:51 <Alberth> oh, '> 1' is missing 19:47:02 <andythenorth> that code is so dirty I'm proud 19:47:04 <andythenorth> and it works... 19:48:19 <Alberth> I never got why you'd check for deps at all 19:50:06 <Alberth> you know that graphics_results is always empty, right? 19:50:29 <Alberth> ie line 22 is a 'pass' :) 19:54:25 *** Firartix [~artixds@147.215.81.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:59:50 * Rhamphoryncus grimaces at ViewportSign::MarkDirty 20:00:22 <Rhamphoryncus> When tracing through a bug you really hate to find out it was justified :( 20:01:16 <andythenorth> Alberth: yeah, I ran into some issues with L22 20:01:36 <andythenorth> none of my nfo has pngs with 'cargo' in the name yet, so I stopped writing the script ;) 20:04:24 * Alberth deletes _PixaImageLoaderOptions 20:05:27 <andythenorth> no need for that class? 20:05:41 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/doc_pizza1.patch 20:05:50 <andythenorth> I found I got more done when I stopped worrying so much about doing it right :) 20:05:51 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:05:52 <Alberth> not any more, I think 20:06:14 <andythenorth> I'll just apply the patch...and run the tests 20:06:18 <andythenorth> oh, no test :( 20:06:31 <Alberth> yep :p 20:07:56 <Alberth> I also ran all tests. They passed trivially ;) 20:08:12 <andythenorth> well BANDIT built it 20:08:46 <andythenorth> appears to work ;) 20:13:52 <Alberth> basically, my two added if x is None: x = self.x do the same as the class :) 20:15:24 <Alberth> euhm, that should be 3 cases, the crop_box should be there too 20:16:12 <Alberth> phew, it is :) 20:17:49 <andythenorth> :) 20:18:20 <andythenorth> r14 http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/pixa/repository 20:21:27 <Alberth> hg qnew r14.patch :p 20:23:16 <frosch123> "soon" has an interesting meaning on the internet 20:29:30 <Alberth> you could write a thesis on it :) 20:31:40 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 20:32:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i create the .png deps in my generator script, i.e. _before_ creating the nml 20:33:34 <andythenorth> output them from there then :) 20:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 20:33:55 <andythenorth> I can't quite do that, I'm writing them directly into nml with my template module 20:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i did that months ago 20:34:35 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 20:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i could try to load nmlc as a module and push the parse tree into it, instead of writing the nml 20:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> or i could write out NFO :p 20:35:39 <andythenorth> ugh 20:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc spends 70 seconds just parsing the cets.nml file 20:36:15 <andythenorth> do you have many redundant lines of code, e.g. switches not called or such? 20:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> no 20:39:59 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's generated, of course it is 99% redundant 20:40:34 <frosch123> try to compress it, and look how small it becomes :p 20:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> something around the size of the generator, i presume :p 20:44:21 <Eddi|zuHause> gzip makes it from 12.5MB to 0.5MB 20:45:30 <frosch123> only factor 25. hmm, that is less redundant than i expected 20:45:30 <Eddi|zuHause> looked at the wrong line, 8.3MB 20:45:55 <frosch123> 12.5->8.3 or 8.3->0.5? :p 20:46:26 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:48:08 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-74-170.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:48:51 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-4.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:52:03 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause> 8.3->0.5 20:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> xz makes it 0.25 20:59:23 <Eddi|zuHause> we have 83kB in .py files and 200kB in .pnml files 20:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the table is 164kB 20:59:58 <frosch123> :) 21:00:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so my initial guess of "roughly the size of the generator" hold 21:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no wait, misread again, 20kB in .pnml files 21:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause> overall something around 3.5kloc 21:11:41 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 21:11:48 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:16:28 *** flaa_ [~flaa@89.101.93.77] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:19:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A360.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:47 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:28:19 *** kkb110 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host closed the connection] 22:32:49 * andythenorth trying to reduce 286 outstanding tickets to <200 then go to bed :P 22:33:04 <andythenorth> I don't actually have to code for them, just move them around :P 22:33:04 <Pikka> good luck bob :D 22:34:13 <andythenorth> 203 22:37:10 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:37:16 <frosch123> night 22:37:20 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f441b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:22 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 22:38:03 <andythenorth> 199 22:38:06 <andythenorth> bed time 22:40:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:43:20 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:43:33 *** brambles_ [brambles@79.133.200.49] has joined #openttd 22:44:57 *** brambles_ [brambles@79.133.200.49] has quit [] 22:45:37 *** brambles [brambles@79.133.200.49] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:47:00 *** brambles [brambles@79.133.200.49] has joined #openttd 22:47:34 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 23:02:49 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178241062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:03:05 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:08:20 <Terkhen> good night 23:10:23 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:12:35 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 23:16:48 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 23:39:52 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:10 *** cl8 [~cl8@host-92-3-253-43.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:11 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping 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