Log for #openttd on 6th May 2012:
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02:21:32  <fisxoj> hello, just updated to 1.2 and started a LAN game, and we noticed there are only buses available, also only one type of train... Hard to find what's up in the forums
02:21:44  <fisxoj> maybe something about newGRF's, but we don't have any enabled
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07:19:04  <Terkhen> good morning
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08:08:24  <Alberth> woep
08:09:42  <Terkhen> hi Alberth
08:10:11  <Alberth> hi
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08:10:33  <Zuu> hello
08:10:41  <Alberth> hi Zuu
08:10:54  <Terkhen> hi Zuu
08:11:35  <__ln__> gesundheit
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08:17:30  <Alberth> phew, we're safe again, sla_ro|master is back
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10:02:05  <Wolf01> hello
10:04:03  <Alberth> moin
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10:11:23  <frosch123> some features of ottd are just silly
10:11:44  <frosch123> e.g. if you buy exclusive transport rights, noone will recevie the cargo of oilrigs :p
10:11:55  <Alberth> haha :)
10:12:49  <Alberth> we should make a news item: "Collapse of the local oil industry"
10:13:58  <frosch123> exclusive rights are not transfered either when taking over companies
10:14:03  <frosch123> or even if they bankrupt
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10:16:24  <Alberth> nice, if I go down, everybody will notice :)
10:19:37  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you CAN build a station next to the oil rig :p
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10:20:08  <frosch123> yeah, my private heliport
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10:41:13  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the exclusive rights could be switched from station-based to vehicle-based checks. especially in combination with infrastructure sharing (load at competitor's station)
10:41:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it would also mean that it would apply to already stockpiled cargo
10:44:19  <andythenorth> intriguing
10:44:27  <andythenorth> "we'll only load your vehicles"
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10:49:09  <frosch123> you mean: still transfer the cargo to the stations (i.e. the company with exclusive rights will not get them), but since the vehicles cannot load it the rating will drop and the cargo will go to other stations?
10:49:18  <Eddi|zuHause> also, waiting vehicles will not improve the station rating
10:49:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, something like that
10:50:32  <andythenorth> hmm
10:50:45  <andythenorth> user might want to know why their vehicles are not loading
10:50:50  <andythenorth> otherwise...bug reports :P
10:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist may need to handle that case, certain outgoing links from station would disappear
10:51:15  <frosch123> andythenorth: exactly, that is the trigger of the discussion in the first place :p
10:51:46  <Eddi|zuHause> players should get a news message for exclusive rights
10:51:57  <frosch123> in fs#5178 an evil ai bought exclusive transport rights, and the poor user does not understand the world anymore :)
10:52:08  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause:
10:53:24  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i mean news message, as in a newspaper. player buys exclusive rights -> all players who have a rating in this town will get immediate notification.
10:53:41  <frosch123> <- yeah, but that is second :p
10:53:43  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and those texts are difficult to understand, they should be rewritten
10:53:58  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i am open to suggestions :)
10:54:21  <frosch123> currently i rephrased the second one to "This station has exclusive transport rights in this town"
10:56:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no immediate proposal for now
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11:31:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24204 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix: If a company is taken over or bankrupts, transfer exclusive transport rights to the new owner resp. cancel them.
11:32:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24205 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt station_gui.cpp town_cmd.cpp): -Feature [FS#5178-ish]: Show a hint in the supplies tab of station windows, if the station is affected by exclusive transport rights.
11:48:22  <Zuu_> frosch123: shouldn't STR_STATIOV_VIEW_EXCLUSIVE_RIGHTS_SELF read "You have exclusive ... " instead of the station. I mean, your text could make someone beleive that the exclusive rights belong to _that_ station.
11:49:26  <frosch123> Zuu_: i had that first
11:49:44  <frosch123> the difference is what you display for a station which profits from exclusive rights, but is not your station
11:50:17  <frosch123> i prefered to display a special text when the station profits instead of when the local company profits
11:50:39  <Zuu_> Ah, okay, so the notice is displayed at my opponent stations if they have exclusive rights.
11:51:30  <Zuu_> Maybe I should playtest it before commenting then :-)
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11:55:12  <andythenorth> quiet here when I'm working on work :P
11:57:07  <Zuu_> andythenorth: There has been some progress on scp. krinn has made good progress on the library and yesterday I updated the wiki page for it. :-)
11:57:26  <Zuu_>
11:58:03  <andythenorth> oh it's a bulletin board :)
11:58:04  <Zuu_> Yesterday CluelessPlus was able to get its goal value from TransportGoals GS
11:58:36  <andythenorth> service registry
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11:58:49  * andythenorth says words :P
11:59:17  * Zuu_ says 0123
12:00:31  <Zuu_> One of the challenges are that signs don't allow full 0-255 chars. Only characters that represent a displayable symbol can be used in signs.
12:01:19  <Alberth> 0-255?   0-65535 :)
12:03:47  <frosch123> Zuu_: base64 :)
12:05:39  <andythenorth> Zuu_: scp seems to be architected for multiple GS?
12:08:12  <frosch123> andythenorth: it is for higher levels of corruption. ais bribing gs and such
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12:18:09  <Zuu_> andythenorth: The command sets are there to allow GS packs. As in a patch pack which creates a single OpenTTD.
12:20:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i still have no idea why you would want to print unprintable characters
12:20:41  <Eddi|zuHause> what's needed other than pushing around json objects?
12:20:53  <frosch123> some have to think the unthinkable :p
12:21:10  <Eddi|zuHause> which is already implemented for GS-adminport communication
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12:24:54  <Zuu_> Wouldn't json imply that you transmit the variable names so to say. With signs, each frame is 31 chars. :-)
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12:29:51  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
12:32:23  <Eddi|zuHause> PS: for transmitting binary data in displayable-ascii range, base64 was invented
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13:18:23  <TrueBrain> I hate blender; a script that worked earlier, now fails, and does completely different behavoir
13:18:26  <TrueBrain> wtf rly :(
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13:30:18  <drac_boy> hi
13:31:01  <drac_boy> any of you know how irc or forum filters sometimes likes to block words that were otherwise really harmless in their meaning?
13:31:01  <Terkhen> hi drac_boy
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13:31:24  <Terkhen> wrong filtering? no idea
13:31:41  <drac_boy> well I wonder how one would think of THIS read the last few words ... wonder about that :p
13:32:41  <drac_boy> terkhen mm how're you still?
13:33:07  <__ln__> never heard of an irc filter
13:33:45  <Alberth> __ln__: read about /ignore :p
13:33:56  <drac_boy> alberth read about irc bots ;)
13:34:00  <drac_boy> heh
13:34:49  <drac_boy> still i wonder what that lady there must had thought of the driver's request :-s
13:37:02  <Alberth> what about irc bots? I know they exist, isn't that enough?
13:46:08  <drac_boy> so what are you three even doing btw?
13:46:55  <DorpsGek> Alberth: There is no proof for the existence of bots
13:47:33  <Alberth> I am quite happy to live with a hypothesis
13:48:45  <TrueBrain> so so tempted to write @quit now
13:48:58  <TrueBrain> it is that I know I have to shell login to recover from that, that is keeping me
13:49:31  * Alberth hugs TrueBrain just for staying
13:49:40  <TrueBrain> no, that command doesnt make me leave :P
13:50:01  <Alberth> :D
13:50:53  <drac_boy> heh
13:50:58  <TrueBrain> ugh, it already takes 2 minutes to render my landscape
13:50:58  <drac_boy> how about /exit ?
13:51:03  <TrueBrain> and it is just one set ...
13:51:11  <TrueBrain> this is going to be sllloowwwwww :D
13:51:16  <TrueBrain> I need a way to detect change I guess ...
13:51:41  <drac_boy> landscape?
13:54:54  <drac_boy> what landscape is this?
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14:05:53  <Alberth> drac_boy:   probably
14:08:05  <drac_boy> heh :P
14:14:01  * drac_boy will stick to 8bpp thank you ;)
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14:19:10  <Eddi|zuHause> what does that have to do with anything?
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14:20:41  <drac_boy> look at that screenshot above, its obviously 32bpp
14:21:12  <__ln__> *it's
14:22:32  <TrueBrain> hmm ... I need to change what blender thinks is a good center of an object ......... how the fuck do I do that :D
14:23:47  <drac_boy> heh
14:27:03  <TrueBrain> ha, found it :D
14:29:56  <Eddi|zuHause> blender can do pretty much everything, you just have to find the right magic key combo
14:30:10  <TrueBrain> yes indeed, yes indeed
14:30:15  <TrueBrain> which makes me happy every time I found out how
14:30:26  <TrueBrain> so far I learnt the keys: tab, l, ctrl+j and p
14:30:29  <TrueBrain> all I need, all I want to know :D
14:31:42  * drac_boy just isn't too interested in blender yet .. especially when they absolutely have no readme for compiling
14:31:52  <drac_boy> wonder when they'll bother fixing that one day so I could give it a try
14:32:14  <drac_boy> truebrain no ctrl+s? :p
14:42:44  <glx> ctrl+s is not something you need to learn, it's conditioning :)
14:44:38  <Eddi|zuHause> except openttd does the wrong thing :p
14:48:19  <TrueBrain> how annoying, meshes have a material, so I cannot link to a mesh and change th ematerial only
14:48:21  <TrueBrain> hmmm
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14:48:42  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it saves something
14:48:58  <TrueBrain> frosch123: more like storing
14:49:42  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: luckily it's not the giant one :)
14:49:46  <drac_boy> heh
14:50:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24206 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Move colouring of advanced setting options to the drawing code.
14:50:09  <drac_boy> glx..maybe but I've see some people that have no idea otherwise..or maybe they're too stuck in their all-mouse-use windows world :)
14:52:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24207 /trunk/src/lang/ (60 files in 2 dirs): -Change: Update the other languages too.
14:53:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24208 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Cleanup in the drawing routine.
14:54:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24209 /trunk/src/ (settings_internal.h table/settings.ini): -Cleanup: Remove now unused SGF_NOCOMMA value.
14:57:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24210 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: Split the renew-months setting text in two string values (one before life time and one after).
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14:59:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24211 /trunk/src/lang/ (53 files in 2 dirs): -Change: Update other languages too with the changed autorenew string.
14:59:03  <Terkhen> mouse and windows are nice :)
15:00:35  * Alberth calls on translators: work to do for you!
15:01:22  <Terkhen> Alberth: "Translation is currently locked; try again in a few moments"
15:01:50  <Terkhen> I'll try again later, bbl :P
15:01:58  <Alberth> system a ta slow handling 2.5MB :)
15:02:02  <Alberth> *tad
15:03:19  <iklu> Hey. Anyone have any idea, is ottd coming mobile ever? Preferrably android ;)
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15:04:07  <glx> probably never
15:04:14  <Rubidium> iklu: I've got a question to that idea. Did you already try to search for such a version?
15:04:46  <iklu> Yes i havent in the matter of fact.
15:05:27  <iklu> So childish of me to try and start a conversation insteaf
15:05:42  <iklu> d of googling it
15:06:02  <__ln__> it's too big for phones
15:07:05  <TrueBrain> generating 75 images in 6 zoom levels .. omg, this takes for ever :P
15:07:27  <Alberth> have dinner in the mean time :p
15:07:36  <TrueBrain> I already ordered it yes :P
15:08:01  <TrueBrain> NML file is already 27 KiB, haha
15:08:18  * TrueBrain is happy he scripted it together :D
15:08:21  <iklu> Too big for phones? My phone is capable of doing things i couldnt imagine back in the 90's on my comp.
15:08:56  <Alberth> what makes you think OpenTTD did not make use of the extra power since then?
15:09:06  <__ln__> iklu: and your phone's screen resolution is ...?
15:09:10  <Rubidium> iklu: except that the size of the mouse pointer has increased significantly on phones and the screen size reduced significantly
15:09:25  <Rubidium> iklu: so actually, OpenTTD is too small for phones
15:09:51  <Alberth> several MBs of storage for the source code should be no problem at all :p
15:10:01  <iklu> Well screen resolution migjt be solved with zooming?
15:11:03  <iklu> i mean im running 3d shooters and hd quality videos (stream).
15:11:10  <__ln__> iklu: the UI would need to be changed significantly to make it usable on a tiny touchscreen. zooming doesn't help.
15:11:41  <Alberth> iklu: the 3d chip does, which openttd does not use
15:12:46  <TrueBrain> :D:D:D:D:D
15:13:02  <TrueBrain> not a big fan of the lighting on one side, but ... it looks good overall
15:13:04  <iklu> Yes. But if thats possible already i cant see much problem of converting ottd either. Then again i dont code. Maybe im missing something
15:14:05  <Alberth> iklu: for some reason people that have no clue about the technical problems never see any problem
15:14:28  <Wolf01> TrueBrain: looks good
15:14:45  <iklu> Well if it is impossible. I take that as an answer.
15:14:59  <Alberth> TrueBrain: make me think of roof tiles )
15:15:17  <__ln__> iklu: try resizing the OpenTTD window to 400x240 on your PC, and see how usable it is that small.
15:15:36  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the two slopes behind each other have some weird missing step inbetween
15:16:00  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: can you be more specific?
15:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the complete brown ones
15:16:24  <Eddi|zuHause> are two rows of sloped tiles
15:16:36  <Eddi|zuHause> in the middle, there is a percieved lighter step inbetween
15:16:40  <TrueBrain> owh, the shadow is not correct yet
15:17:23  <Eddi|zuHause> it's missing a dark line there
15:17:40  <Eddi|zuHause> at the edge of the tile
15:17:44  <TrueBrain> owh, the shadow is not correct yet
15:20:32  <TrueBrain> the renderer needs invisible tiles around it that only cast shadow
15:20:37  <TrueBrain> it is very annoying to build that :P
15:21:42  <iklu> __ln__: thats why i was talking about zoom. Samekind like usin when webbrowsing. Quick and painless to use. To make it happen i believe is a bit different
15:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the 32bpp example templates used to have such a transparent surface
15:25:40  <__ln__> iklu: theoretically possible, but indeed the UI would need to be completely different (no big toolbars, first of all). even with zooming i bet it would be tedious to e.g. build a track when you can see like 3 tiles at a time.
15:29:00  <Terkhen> yes, and given that more than a few UI redesign projects for "default" OpenTTD have been abandoned, it's difficult to think that someone would take the time to do the same for android
15:29:41  <iklu> True. But it would still keep me happy on the go ;)
15:31:06  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: )
15:31:34  <Terkhen> and you probably would not be alone, but the problem is the usual one, it needs someone dedicated enough to take time to make the port, resolve all technical issues, redesign the UI, get in contact with OpenTTD developers to fix any issues and get the code ready for trunk inclusion and stay around to solve any bugs or future problems that might arise
15:31:38  <Terkhen> not a smal task :)
15:31:40  <Terkhen> small*
15:31:45  <andythenorth> TrueBrain if I had a spare life, I'd help you with that one ;)
15:31:49  <andythenorth> no spare life :P
15:32:11  <Terkhen> TrueBrain: that is looking nice :)
15:32:17  * andythenorth ponders doing something that doesn't involve staring into a laptop
15:32:24  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: sadly, it is not that simple :)
15:32:33  <Terkhen> andythenorth: going outside, maybe? :O
15:32:41  <andythenorth> just done that for 5 mins :P
15:32:50  * andythenorth has worked 7 straight days, and will work another 5 before a break
15:32:58  <andythenorth> with added fun of two sick kids
15:33:14  <andythenorth> having your own business is awesome :)
15:33:40  <Terkhen> sounds... fun :P
15:34:53  <andythenorth> even the suggestions forum is quiet
15:34:57  <andythenorth> nothing to moan about there :P
15:35:15  * andythenorth has shipped the thing he was working on and is now resisting 'improving' it
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15:43:36  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... 10 minutes left...
15:45:36  <TrueBrain> hmm ... shadows are annoying :(
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15:55:26  * Terkhen finished translating
16:05:42  <TrueBrain> concratz
16:05:54  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you were right, it should be as simple as a transparent surface :)
16:05:59  <TrueBrain> rerendering as we speak ..
16:08:00  <TrueBrain> I love it; one change, and all images rerender with that change, applied to all :D
16:08:48  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: afair there were surface settings for "make transparent" and "render shadows anyway"
16:09:25  <TrueBrain> owh, make transparent I dont know about, but I made it only render shadows yes
16:09:28  <TrueBrain> and not cast them etc etc
16:09:47  <TrueBrain> for some reason I do know how to do those things in Blender :D My Blender knowledge is funny, very selective for some reason :D:D
16:12:00  *** Nat_AFK is now known as Nat_aS
16:12:26  <Nat_aS> mornin
16:15:21  <TrueBrain> script error .. right ....
16:15:24  <TrueBrain> why this time :(
16:22:10  * andythenorth ponders
16:22:17  <andythenorth> start writing new code?
16:22:29  <TrueBrain> sounds horrible
16:22:38  <andythenorth> or accept I've shipped, and that it's Sunday?
16:22:38  <andythenorth> :P
16:22:38  <andythenorth> [not ottd related]
16:22:50  <TrueBrain> its Sunday!
16:22:55  <TrueBrain> dont do anything on a sunday!
16:22:59  <TrueBrain> :D
16:23:31  * andythenorth likes writing code for the internets :P
16:23:38  <andythenorth> but maybe time for a break
16:23:50  <TrueBrain> It's always time for a break :D
16:24:22  <andythenorth> maybe I could ship a FIRS
16:24:44  <TrueBrain> oef, shadows are very wrong now
16:24:46  <TrueBrain> hmmm
16:25:04  <andythenorth> the weird thing is that all my new code, which makes a lot of use of css 3
16:25:08  <andythenorth> works fine in IE 9
16:25:16  <andythenorth> which I don't even have to support
16:25:34  <andythenorth> because it's an internal app
16:25:40  <andythenorth> and I can just tell people not to use it
16:25:59  <andythenorth> and they don't have it on their macs anyway :P
16:28:41  * andythenorth resists writing more code
16:28:48  <andythenorth> bye!
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16:28:53  <TrueBrain> lolz
16:29:58  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, a surface alone is not enough; it also has to render shadows to the sides correctly etc, meaning I have to duplicate the landscape around a tile, and make them transparent (but accept shadows)
16:30:05  <TrueBrain> last time I believe it was the only way to make it pretty enough
16:30:24  <TrueBrain> not sure ... I could also try to keep shadows inside objects :D
16:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause> you need a surface slightly larger than the tile itself
16:30:42  <Chris_Booth> please XeryusTC?
16:30:55  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: it gives shadows you dont want :)
16:30:58  <TrueBrain> how ever big it is
16:31:08  <TrueBrain> for other objects it is fine
16:31:11  <TrueBrain> but for terrain, it is wrong
16:32:14  <TrueBrain> (a hill going up also casts a shadow, one you really dont want ;))
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16:35:25  <Eddi|zuHause> right
16:35:40  <TrueBrain> hmm, I dont think there really is a solution ... that is sad :P
16:37:17  <TrueBrain> hmm, there are some other slightly wrong shadows
16:37:20  <TrueBrain> I need a better look at this :D
16:42:46  <hackalittlebit> frosch123: what is max screen size acceptable for new game in px?
16:44:09  <hackalittlebit> world generation screen
16:44:30  <Rubidium> s/max screen/max window/?
16:44:50  <hackalittlebit> the opening screen
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16:45:21  <Rubidium> so you mean window
16:45:24  <Rubidium> then 640x480
16:45:25  <hackalittlebit> when you click 'new game'
16:47:09  <Rubidium> as the maximum screen size is only bound by what your operating system allows or 32k pixels each size (whichever is smaller)
16:48:33  <hackalittlebit> yes but would you allow a ingame screen to totally cover everything else?
16:48:48  <hackalittlebit> I would not
16:49:18  <hackalittlebit> so what would be acceptable
16:49:29  <Eddi|zuHause> hackalittlebit: all windows should have a version that displays properly on a 640x480 screen
16:50:28  <Alberth> hackalittlebit: nobody runs OpenTTD at an 640x480 screen
16:51:30  <Alberth> making that the size of a window is fine; technically you can still use the program as all windows can be displayed, but nobody is ever going to do that
16:52:01  <TrueBrain> s/is ever going to do/should be doing/
16:52:34  * TrueBrain wistles while he changes his res back from 640x480 :D
16:52:42  <Alberth> TrueBrain: they should use a smaller font and make a small gui sprite set :)
16:52:57  <hackalittlebit> alberth: is size of popup screen related to size of computer screen?
16:53:14  <Alberth> no, only to its contents
16:53:56  <Alberth> except 'contents' is not fixed either; people use bigger fonts and/or big gui sprites
16:54:10  <Alberth> but for design you don't need to take that into account
16:54:39  <hackalittlebit> so could you not establish max initial popup size?
16:54:51  <hackalittlebit> that you find acceptable
16:55:18  <Alberth> 640x480 too big?
16:55:37  <hackalittlebit> I think so.
16:56:15  <Alberth> popup has by definition little content, so if you need 640x480, it has too much information, I think
16:57:16  <Alberth> a realistic minimal screen size is around 1024x768 I think, so 640x480 is ok
16:57:58  *** roadt [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:58:29  <hackalittlebit> ok
16:58:53  <Alberth> having problems with window size?
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17:00:02  <hackalittlebit> no, just if you redesign opening (eg 'new game')window, it would be nice to know limmits
17:00:48  <hackalittlebit> see fs5147
17:01:30  <Alberth> not so whether that counts as 'opening window', in my mind once you clicked 'new game', you have started to use the program
17:01:52  <Alberth> I would only consider the intro screen window to be the opening window
17:02:09  <hackalittlebit> ok
17:02:13  <Alberth> and that one should be small, but that's not a big issue, I think
17:03:03  <hackalittlebit> that one could be smaller and more simple
17:03:07  <Alberth> I hope you make a nice design
17:03:21  <hackalittlebit> :)
17:03:44  <Alberth> I do like the direction it is going
17:05:32  <hackalittlebit> other question:Would you guys be interested in getting rid of that basic 'Game Options' screen
17:05:47  <hackalittlebit> or is that to radical
17:06:17  <Alberth> I'd like that
17:06:24  <hackalittlebit> me to
17:06:58  <Alberth> imho the game options, difficulty and advanced settings are all doing the same kind of thing, and should be merged
17:07:19  <hackalittlebit> agreed
17:07:43  <hackalittlebit> but that shoul be discussed in later stage
17:07:50  * Alberth tries to remember why that failed the last time (several years ago)
17:08:25  <hackalittlebit> try to keep game as original as possible maybe
17:08:43  <Alberth> iirc, the high-score button was a problem in difficulties, and the long list of values in game options
17:08:54  <hackalittlebit> those are settings from the beginning
17:09:06  <Alberth> but this was before I was a dev, and before the big gui system rewrite
17:09:11  <frosch123> i considered the game options as some kind of system settings
17:09:17  <frosch123> language and screen resolution
17:09:33  <frosch123> i.e. those things which have nothing to do with the actual game :)
17:09:45  <Alberth> PaulC had similar ideas, it could be good to keep them separate
17:10:06  <Alberth> hackalittlebit: so yeah, we have ideas etc :)
17:10:51  <frosch123> the difficulty window otoh should just be dropped :p
17:11:03  <frosch123> and the stuff from it should be moved to genworld resp. advanced settings
17:11:17  <frosch123> resp. ai settings
17:11:25  <Alberth> but gui design should be done in very small steps imho, otherwise it gets too complicated very fast
17:11:36  <hackalittlebit> agreed
17:11:39  <frosch123> yup
17:11:55  <frosch123> imo worldgen is the first step, since we progressed the furthest in that design
17:12:11  <frosch123> that would include removing options from the game options which we move there
17:12:18  <frosch123> second would imo be removal of difficulty settings
17:12:31  <frosch123> since there are very few things left after the worldgen window is done
17:13:39  <hackalittlebit> frosh123: would it be possible to define what are basic and what are advanced options?
17:14:13  <hackalittlebit> in world generator window
17:14:26  <frosch123> i made a proposal for that :)
17:14:39  <frosch123> no idea who agrees or disagrees with that selection
17:14:39  <hackalittlebit> saw it
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17:15:18  <frosch123> <- for the rest in the channel
17:15:41  <hackalittlebit> think about date for example
17:15:58  <hackalittlebit> that  was not in original game
17:16:41  <TrueBrain> Wolf01: I hope you don't mind I am about to steal your Brickland name, the set you started in 2007 ;)
17:16:42  <frosch123> i don't think that is a useful criterion
17:17:06  <hackalittlebit> and another doubt that i have is those 4 buttons for making map edge.
17:17:22  <frosch123> i really like those 4 buttons as advanced settings
17:17:30  <Wolf01> TrueBrain: instead I'm glad somebody had taken it up again
17:17:38  <frosch123> sometimes i want to play on a map which has coast only on one side
17:18:17  <TrueBrain> Wolf01: :D
17:18:18  <hackalittlebit> realy
17:18:26  <hackalittlebit> :)
17:19:11  <frosch123> hackalittlebit: there was a issue with date and snowline in scenario editor
17:19:30  <frosch123> while you can actually change the date after map generation
17:19:36  <frosch123> you cannot change the snowline
17:20:29  <hackalittlebit> changing date  also in cheat window
17:20:30  <frosch123> changing the snowlines causes somewhat trouble for original houses, but other than that i think scenario creators would want to change the snowline later on
17:20:48  <frosch123> hackalittlebit: i am only talking about scenario editor
17:20:53  <hackalittlebit> ok
17:20:54  <frosch123> and the se has no cheats :)
17:21:08  <Alberth> the se *is* a cheat :p
17:21:13  <Eddi|zuHause> hackalittlebit: i would put town names into advanced
17:21:28  <frosch123> e.g. one could remove the date from the se editor mapgen window, since there is no much point in it
17:21:40  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: definitely not
17:22:14  <frosch123> it's a setting everyone understands, and esp. when using town name grfs it must be easy to find
17:22:55  <frosch123> currently it is really stupid that if you add a townname grf you have to go to the game options to select them
17:22:57  <Alberth> frosch123: or even select it automagically ?
17:23:10  <frosch123> Alberth: there are multiple namesets in a townname grf :)
17:23:26  <frosch123> though you could show some hint if none of them is used
17:23:29  <Alberth> not in mine :p
17:23:38  <frosch123> german town names have like 10 or so :p
17:23:55  <frosch123> real, fictional, north, west, east, south, and various combinations thereof
17:24:06  <Alberth> suppress the default, and force the user to make a choice, or is that too strong?
17:24:51  <frosch123> they are already separated in the dropdown
17:25:01  <frosch123> first the newgrf ones, then a separator line, then the original ones
17:29:30  <Alberth> yeah, but you have to know that :)
17:32:36  <hackalittlebit> ok back to the drawing board :)  see ya.
17:33:03  <Alberth> bye :)
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17:39:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24212 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
17:39:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:39:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 39 changes by Rubidium
17:39:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 39 changes by jpx_
17:39:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 39 changes by glx
17:39:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 16 changes by Phreeze
17:39:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 2 changes by wojteks86
17:42:25  <Sacro> \o/
17:42:50  <frosch123> you're no translator
17:44:22  <telanus1> I'm not sure how to translate the following: " month{P 0 "" s} before"
17:44:47  <frosch123> it's used in the autoreplace setting
17:45:11  <frosch123> "renew vehicles 12 months before they get old"
17:45:40  <frosch123> the middle part is constructed from "months before" or "months after"
17:46:01  <telanus1> Ah that helps Thanx
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18:27:19  <__ln__> constructing sentences from pieces is bad for translation
18:28:03  <Alberth> having every sentence twice is much better?
18:29:19  <__ln__> i don't know where you got 'every sentence'.
18:29:55  <NGC3982> im on a train and im so bored.
18:30:19  <NGC3982> i broke my god forsaken head phones.
18:30:48  <NGC3982> if only i could log on to my game back home.
18:34:11  <Alberth> imagine you are *in* your game :p
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18:45:26  <NGC3982> hehe
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19:49:15  <Alberth> o/ andy
19:53:50  <andythenorth> o/
19:53:53  * andythenorth bed
20:04:13  <Alberth> good night :)
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20:38:05  <jnxa> It seems that each train that I have is assigned a home depot, which means it may travel through all of the map just to get there in case it is sent there (manually, autorenew/autoreplace). Can this be changed?
20:39:29  <frosch123> you can use depot orders
20:39:37  <frosch123> or you can use forced depot visits
20:40:40  <NGC3982> is that even possible?
20:41:14  <frosch123>
20:41:21  <NGC3982> i have never seen any function or tendency for trains using a "home" depot, other then the nearest one when traveling on service, or as a direct order.
20:43:15  <jnxa> It just occurred that after maintenance, vehicles skipped a certain number of stations, which seemed to indicate they did not choose the nearest depot.
20:43:57  <NGC3982> as far as i know, it should.
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21:02:41  <bremerjoe> good evening y'all
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21:20:27  <Eddi|zuHause> jnxa: it may be that they chose a depot right after the station, and then couldn't go back to the station anymore
21:20:49  <Eddi|zuHause> jnxa: then they would skip all stations until they make a full round trip
21:21:40  <Terkhen> good night
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21:42:10  <bremerjoe> bye
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21:45:19  <jnxa> it's more subtle than that. I am about to discover.
21:54:36  <Hazzard> right
21:54:36  <Hazzard> what
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21:57:02  <jnxa> part 1: a pebkac - stray order in list. part 2: new trains always start with order 1 rather than inherit when cloned
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21:58:21  <DDR> jnxa: Another problem is that the closest depot isn't always on the branch of the line the train should be one.
21:58:23  <DDR> *on.
21:58:48  <jnxa> that's guaranteed in my case
21:58:49  <DDR> For example, last game I was having troubles with trains going to the depot on branch A when their station target was on branch B.
21:59:05  <DDR> Took me forever to realize what was happening. :P
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22:00:03  <jnxa> branch is rather arbitrary; do you have a sav showing such a network?
22:01:16  <DDR> Well, by branch I mean: I have one station over on the left and one over on the right, and they service different industries. Both their target industries are down the line and are serviced by one station. So, they combine lines shortly after the stations so I don't have to build another line going down to the target station.
22:01:21  <DDR> It looks like a Y.
22:01:55  <DDR> The problem was that I had the depots on the top two branches of the Y, instead of on the trunk.
22:02:30  <frosch123> night
22:02:34  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:02:37  <Hazzard> Breakdowns on?
22:03:07  <DDR> The left branch's depot was marginally farther away than the right branch, so any trains that needed servicing (Yep, breakdowns on.) on the trunk would find the nearest depot... on the right branch of the Y.
22:03:28  <DDR> Then to get back to the left branch, the train would have to go down the trunk and back up again. :(
22:05:43  <Hazzard> Do they service automaticly or do they have an order?
22:06:10  <DDR> They service automatically.
22:06:41  <DDR> Anyway, I took the bad way out and now I've got a Y҃ sort of track. :P
22:07:16  <Hazzard> Just make servicing areas on the main lines
22:07:40  <DDR> I didn't want to slow down my trains. (yes, I know it can be done without, but... lazy.)
22:08:02  <DDR> Anyway, the proper solution is to just schedule them to make a service stop on the branch.
22:08:03  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:08:07  <DDR> On the return trip.
22:08:12  <DDR> It'll work out better, then.
22:08:19  <Hazzard> Doesn't that take more work?
22:08:48  <DDR> Not really, since the branches aren't heavily travelled.
22:08:54  <DDR> I don't have to put in any optimisation.
22:09:26  <DDR> Anyway, I'll be back in a bit. :)
22:09:34  <Hazzard> Have fun
22:10:12  <Wolf01> 'night
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