Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:20 *** Wakou [~stephen@host86-129-34-31.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:01:59 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-167-118.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:02:49 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 00:23:10 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.42.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:31:57 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 00:46:09 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 00:53:05 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.67.20] has joined #openttd 01:06:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.191.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:53 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-069-078.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:12:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@182.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 01:24:32 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:58e1:b5d6:4c21:8510] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:25:21 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 01:51:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.191.171] has joined #openttd 02:08:36 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.134.150] has joined #openttd 02:23:15 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.67.20] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:28 *** Billybobjoepants [32257b77@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:45:33 <Billybobjoepants> hihihi 02:45:47 <Billybobjoepants> ): no one here 02:45:49 <Billybobjoepants> byebyebye 02:45:53 *** Billybobjoepants [32257b77@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 03:36:07 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 03:50:11 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 03:56:19 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:04:27 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 04:44:17 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:44:24 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67055.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:44:40 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4AE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:07:23 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 05:12:42 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:30:47 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 05:33:05 <Terkhen> good morning 05:35:52 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 05:36:27 *** KouDy [~KouDy@182.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:47:37 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-66-115-249-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 05:48:25 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.0.91] has joined #openttd 05:55:05 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.42.12] has joined #openttd 05:57:18 *** ludde [~b@c80-217-210-102.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 06:25:42 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-66-115-249-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 06:32:31 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:33:47 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 07:07:45 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 07:07:48 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:11:36 <dihedral> good morning 07:11:45 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-051-096.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:15:18 <Alberth> moin 07:16:53 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 07:24:49 <dihedral> hello Alberth 07:28:57 <planetmaker> moin 07:29:18 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 07:30:31 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.210.120] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:34:36 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 07:44:17 *** GBerten2936 is now known as lugo 08:09:01 *** peter1138 [~petern@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:09:04 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 08:19:21 *** arnold [5dcf6821@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:20:53 <arnold> hallo freunde. unser server lÀuft im web auf nen linux. wir versuchen hier seit ner stunde die mapsize zu Àndern mit google & co. der will duie einfach nicht erhöhen von 256 auf 1024 08:21:05 <arnold> hat jemand iene idee ? kann doch nicht so tricky sein :/ 08:22:07 <Alberth> when you speak English, more people will understand what you say :) 08:23:21 <arnold> hi :) i cant change the mapsize from 256 to 1024. linux webserver. we edit the openttd.cfg for example map_x = 10 .... but when we restart, the server will create a 256map :/ 08:23:43 <Alberth> openttd writes the config on exit 08:23:57 *** cra [5dcf6821@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:24:18 <cra> hi 08:24:18 <arnold> how can i setup a server (newgame) with a mapsize like 1024 (=10) 08:24:20 <Alberth> so editing while the server runs is a little useless :) 08:24:25 <Alberth> hi cra 08:24:41 <arnold> i can use the command window .. ~ ?! right? 08:25:04 <Alberth> arnold: first shutdown the openttd program before you edit the config file 08:25:43 <arnold> i will test ... :) 08:26:36 <Alberth> arnold: the usual way of doing things is to prepare a config file at a normal desktop game, that works much better than editing the file directly 08:26:50 <arnold> omg ... :D its work. my buddy has nerver stop the server. only edit, then restart :D 08:27:00 <arnold> now it works , thx :* ^^ 08:27:45 <Alberth> that's what happens if you stop openttd from overwriting your careful edits :D 08:28:21 <arnold> thx my friend :) 08:28:26 <Alberth> yw :) 08:29:42 *** cra [5dcf6821@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:29:55 <Alberth> bye cra 08:32:52 <arnold> ehy alberth, next one :) 08:32:55 <arnold> hey 08:33:24 <arnold> which configtext ist for the numbers of town. because, our new 1024map has a less number aof towns ^^ 08:33:44 <arnold> an industrie 08:33:47 <arnold> and 08:34:35 <Alberth> no idea, I am sure you can find it if you want, but instead make a good config file at a desktop game, and then copy the config file to the server 08:34:43 <Alberth> that's way easier 08:34:49 <arnold> aaaah, ok :) thx 08:35:38 <arnold> now i must play. our boss is away .. big ttd officeparty :D 08:35:43 <arnold> bye :) 08:35:49 <Alberth> bye :) 08:35:58 *** arnold [5dcf6821@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:05:46 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 09:09:16 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:28:41 <peter1138> When my boss is away they just piss of home early instead. 09:33:01 *** telanus2 [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 09:36:31 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:36:57 *** telanus2 is now known as telanus 09:55:21 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-93-90.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:55:43 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:58:58 <NGC3982> i cant stand business offices that cant keep control on employees. 09:59:32 <Sacro> Yes 09:59:39 * Sacro sits on IRC at work 10:00:00 * NGC3982 puts lots of time on keeping his employees occupied enough never have a reason to go home early. 10:00:54 * NGC3982 also needs to look at what he is writing before sending it, apparently. 10:01:06 * Warod believes the work must be interesting enough to keep people doing it! 10:01:15 <NGC3982> yes, of course. 10:01:44 <NGC3982> though, i fail to understand how a business can be profiting at all with systems that allow people to simply walk home unnoticed. 10:01:59 <NGC3982> it seems to say a fair bit about the effectiveness, at least. 10:03:52 <planetmaker> quite right comment, Alberth 10:03:58 <planetmaker> (on NML) 10:04:12 <planetmaker> actually in all aspects :-P Including "too alien" ;-) 10:04:44 <Warod> NGC3982: Hmm? Stuff gets done so what's the problem? :P 10:05:17 <NGC3982> Warod: if 40% effective work gives fair profit, 80% should do more. 10:05:30 <Alberth> planetmaker: :) 10:05:41 <NGC3982> Warod: dont you think? :) 10:05:48 <Warod> NGC3982: It's summer... do you think I get myself to the office? Haven't been at the office even once after my summer vacation ended nearly two weeks ago. :P 10:06:12 <Alberth> planetmaker: the hard part is however the "some macro expansion system" :) 10:06:16 <NGC3982> Warod: then i guess you have the privilegde to control your profit without presence. 10:06:19 <planetmaker> Alberth, you may (or may not) have noticed, that xotic made an m4nml system? 10:06:29 <NGC3982> Warod: and that is of course not the case in normal work > employee situations. 10:06:36 <Alberth> I did not, how nice 10:07:05 <planetmaker> yes... I'd have much more appreciation for it though, if he'd talk to me before re-writing newgrfs I'm part in, though :S 10:07:08 <Warod> NGC3982: I do most of the profitable deals and handle the difficult cases. :P 10:07:11 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: fyi; the /dev/random function worked out nicely, and fitted my experiment perfectly. 10:07:48 <planetmaker> and could at least feel like doing more than "accept or reject" the whole re-write 10:08:08 <planetmaker> thus I haven't quite replied to it at all so far... not good either 10:08:31 <Alberth> I fully agree, changing stuff without asking others is not good 10:08:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6AF8E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:08:55 <planetmaker> it's not committed to the "official" repo. But still... lots of time gone into it 10:09:04 <planetmaker> supposedly 10:09:21 <Warod> NGC3982: Also.. I tend to be where I need to be. And office is hardly ever one of those places. ^^ 10:09:25 <Alberth> say you have some trouble with the direction it is going? 10:10:19 <planetmaker> tbh, I've no clue really *which* he likes to take it. Thus I've more a problem of seeing any direction really... I see mostly a problem in communication 10:10:48 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-105-229.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:10:54 <Alberth> sounds like it yeah 10:11:01 <Alberth> hi Pixa 10:11:14 <Pixa> Hello 10:11:42 <planetmaker> and sadly I'm annoyed by it. Which makes me... not a nice person to communicate with then. Thus I remained silent so far. In order to not needlessly insult 10:12:13 <Alberth> a cautious PM asking for what direction it is going? 10:13:10 <planetmaker> yeah, I should do that 10:15:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.191.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:28:05 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-66-115-249-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 10:32:50 <peter1138> Warod, exactly, they can do all the work from home. 10:33:59 <Alberth> who needs a HQ anyway :D 10:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i tend to not get anything done at home... 10:39:11 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:41:12 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 10:42:47 <Hirundo> Alberth: Interesting thoughts (http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3637) 10:43:26 <Alberth> yeah, it makes it more complicated though, unfortunately 10:43:55 <Hirundo> I'm not sure if NML needs a full (token-level) macro processor 10:44:09 <Alberth> why not? 10:44:23 * planetmaker assigns task to Alberth ;-) 10:44:33 <NGC3982> Warod: well, i guess you are a supervisor? 10:44:41 <planetmaker> when will it be done? :-P 10:44:48 <Hirundo> Those already exist as cpp, m4, etc. rewriting them would be pointless 10:45:13 <Hirundo> I'm more thinking along the lines of parametrized 'item templates', like real sprite templates 10:45:38 <Alberth> 'cat' also already exists, yet you made an issue for including files :) 10:45:45 <planetmaker> that most likely hits home most cases, Hirundo 10:46:18 <Warod> NGC3982: Not really, no. 10:46:30 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:40 <Alberth> Yeah, I left open what kind of macro expansion you want; cpp is very general purpose and low-level, probably due to hysteric reasons 10:47:35 <Hirundo> basically you'd want the equivalent of C++ templates instead of C macros 10:47:54 * Alberth nods 10:48:36 <Alberth> template SOMENAME(PARAMS) { <aribtrary nml defs> } ? 10:49:01 <Alberth> and SOMENAME(1); SOMENAME(2); etc 10:49:36 <planetmaker> would be nice, if one could then also template switches with this means 10:50:18 <Alberth> just pick the non-terminal to be used between the curly brackets :) ) 10:51:07 <planetmaker> which would imply that something like the cpp directive part1 ## part2 exists 10:51:52 <Alberth> why do you need that? 10:52:10 <Hirundo> IMO switches suck in general, they are very inconvenient for general programming work 10:52:12 <Alberth> (assuming names in a template are local) 10:52:13 <planetmaker> switches for different vehicles need different names in NML 10:53:30 <Alberth> planetmaker: ie do you need those names from outside the template? 10:53:49 <Hirundo> I have been thinking about namespaces to solve those naming issues 10:54:00 <planetmaker> well. The template must expand to different switch names when being used, Alberth 10:54:10 * Alberth nods 10:54:21 <Alberth> a local name means it is unique 10:54:38 <planetmaker> a local naming scheme would make this probably (much) easier 10:54:39 <Alberth> and only exists within the template instance 10:55:04 <planetmaker> thus you define a name space per vehicle. And then you can re-use the same template over and over 10:55:18 <Alberth> that would be one case yes 10:56:04 <Alberth> it is like { int x; { int y; } /* y is not known here */ { int y; /* this is a different y */ } } in c++ 10:56:37 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 10:57:02 <Alberth> obviously this fails if you need y outside the innermost brackets :) 10:59:31 <planetmaker> yes. Any possibility to export it? 11:00:06 <Hirundo> namespace::y (if the namespace is named) 11:00:35 <Alberth> that's to be decided, I'd prefer it as return value or as incoming name through the parameter list 11:00:49 <Alberth> the latter is easier, probably 11:05:36 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:07:38 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.134.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:18:19 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-123-240.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:18:39 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 11:21:19 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 11:22:13 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:24:13 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-106-21.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:40:05 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:43:14 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 11:58:13 *** telanus2 [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 12:01:42 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:07:22 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 12:08:17 *** telanus2 [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:15:57 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d2e:e794:8058:24d0] has joined #openttd 12:16:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:25:19 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-121-121.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:29:45 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 12:34:48 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.134.150] has joined #openttd 12:36:50 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 12:40:56 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 12:44:25 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:44:39 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 12:46:23 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [] 13:59:23 <Belugas> hello 13:59:35 <dihedral> hello Belugas 14:00:48 <Belugas> sir dihedral :) 14:03:40 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:12:52 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4AE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:12 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4AE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:26:56 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:35:52 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:36:19 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 14:37:56 *** Way [4e1e7a2d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:38:14 *** Way [4e1e7a2d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 14:45:09 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 14:48:53 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 14:58:15 * FLHerne fails to install NML 14:58:48 <FLHerne> alien doesn't like the rpm :-( 15:01:36 <FLHerne> Ah, well, I'll have to compile it :-( 15:02:34 <Terkhen> hg clone the repo and symlink nmlc to /usr/bin/ 15:03:30 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-55.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:06:53 <FLHerne> Never used hg :p 15:08:02 <Terkhen> I assume that you can do the same with tarballs/binaries 15:08:09 <FLHerne> Used http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Installation#Installing_NML , neither method works :P 15:08:30 <Terkhen> not that hg is complicated to use 15:09:48 <FLHerne> Well, I'll learn to use it when I have to :P . They've got tar.gz archives, and I know how to use those already... 15:11:23 <FLHerne> Installed it following the instructions, and now I get lots of python error messages :-( 15:12:41 <Terkhen> without knowing the errors we cant help you :P 15:13:00 <Terkhen> but you are probably missing pil and ply 15:14:28 * FLHerne goes to look up package namel for them 15:14:37 <FLHerne> s/el/es/ 15:15:15 <FLHerne> Perhaps it should mention dependencies on the installation instructions? 15:15:30 <FLHerne> Hah, it does but I missed them :P 15:16:04 * FLHerne needs to read these things more carefully :-( 15:16:19 <Terkhen> IIRC it is mentioned, yes :) 15:17:44 <FLHerne> Works now, sorry to bother you 15:18:09 * FLHerne wonders if there's a sequence of puctuation for 'embarrassed face' :P 15:19:33 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 15:20:07 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:28 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 15:38:35 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:43:53 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 15:52:07 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 16:01:00 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:01:19 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fefd4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:01:35 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:01:57 <frosch123> hello kids 16:07:40 *** Way [4e1e6de5@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:07:45 <Way> hello :) 16:08:45 <Way> why i dont see all signs in list? 16:09:49 *** Way [4e1e6de5@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 16:11:18 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:19:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:21:45 *** peter1138 [~petern@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:27:59 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:34:04 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:34:05 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:39:51 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:04:18 <andythenorth> Terkhen: http://www.railpictures.net/photo/402762/ 17:07:50 <Terkhen> andythenorth: where in spain is that? :P 17:08:28 <__ln__> Terkhen: there's a map 17:08:54 <Terkhen> ooh, I see 17:09:05 <__ln__> i was going to ask which newgrf is that 17:11:31 <frosch123> we removed it from bananas because we don't like realism 17:14:09 <__ln__> good 17:23:30 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:33:25 *** Supercheese [~chatzilla@50-37-107-68.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 17:33:57 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24396 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt latvian.txt polish.txt): 17:33:57 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:33:57 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: czech - 14 changes by Eskymak 17:33:57 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: latvian - 3 changes by Parastais 17:33:57 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: polish - 3 changes by wojteks86 17:38:35 <andythenorth> what shall we talk nonsense about? 17:40:47 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I'm trying to code your CHIPS tiles as NewObjects now :P 17:41:53 <andythenorth> have fun :) 17:42:03 <andythenorth> they won't accept cargo :P 17:42:34 <FLHerne> I know 17:42:37 <Supercheese> Making them overlap roads like the ISR NewObjects set? 17:42:51 <andythenorth> that's such a hack :P 17:42:52 <FLHerne> But they will be able to be built on more slope types :-) 17:42:56 <andythenorth> clever, but monstrous 17:43:12 <FLHerne> If I can figure out this NML gibberish, anyway :P 17:43:17 <Supercheese> agreed, sort of like Push/Pull trains 17:44:23 <andythenorth> FLHerne: you just copy one of the existing nml objects grfs? 17:44:29 <andythenorth> probably one on devzone 17:44:46 <FLHerne> But then I wouldn't learn :D 17:44:47 <frosch123> [19:50] <andythenorth> what shall we talk nonsense about? <- how about deprecating non-track station tiles, and adding a flag to object definitions whether they shall be offered in objects-, stations-, bus-, airport-,... gui? :p 17:44:59 <andythenorth> ok 17:45:01 * FLHerne tries to be productive for once :D 17:45:15 <andythenorth> frosch123: would we mind sanitising the spec too? 17:45:21 <andythenorth> maybe by copying objects or something? 17:45:28 <andythenorth> [is objects sane?] 17:45:34 <frosch123> no :p 17:45:50 <andythenorth> would these objects be allowed to accept cargo? 17:46:01 <andythenorth> can we reimplement everything as subclass of object :P 17:46:13 <andythenorth> and give them cbs to accept / produce cargo too 17:46:17 <frosch123> maybe they should be allowed to construct vehicles and send them onto your tracks 17:46:22 <andythenorth> and state machines for routing vehicles 17:46:48 <andythenorth> one way to rule them all :P 17:47:09 <andythenorth> 'everything is an object' 17:47:13 <andythenorth> hmm 17:47:26 <frosch123> we should propose that to p1sim 17:47:30 <andythenorth> actually we might use that as a bonkers way to do openttd 2.0 17:47:38 <andythenorth> I think we should do something silly 17:47:42 <andythenorth> fuck all this realism stuff :P 17:47:50 <andythenorth> oops andythenorth got sweary 17:48:02 <andythenorth> it's been a long 2 years and 5 months :P 17:48:47 <frosch123> real hoover buses? 17:49:00 <andythenorth> yes, hoover buses that suck things up 17:49:11 <frosch123> we can unify rv and aircraft by adding an hoover height property to rv 17:49:20 <andythenorth> unify ships too 17:49:23 <andythenorth> that's fine 17:49:29 <andythenorth> everything is just 'vehicle' 17:49:33 <frosch123> submarines are just a negative hoover height 17:49:36 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.0.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:49:42 <andythenorth> then my 'vehicles' python framework for newgrf starts looking like the game :P 17:49:43 <FLHerne> Road-rail vehicles? 17:49:49 <andythenorth> don't be silly :) 17:50:08 <andythenorth> how could that ever work :) 17:50:15 <FLHerne> How about flying cars, those would need variable hoover height...? 17:50:33 <andythenorth> just offset the graphics :P 17:50:36 <frosch123> roadtypes are just a type of railtypes 17:50:37 * andythenorth ponders that idea 17:50:42 <andythenorth> frosch123: no. 17:50:47 <andythenorth> type of routetype 17:50:47 <frosch123> that would also unify trams and rails 17:50:54 <FLHerne> and canals too? :P 17:50:56 <frosch123> including tracks which can both run trams and real trains 17:51:01 <andythenorth> but route is just a question of state machine on the object 17:51:16 <andythenorth> every tile = state machine, with programmable logic 17:51:19 <frosch123> you just need some flag which tells whether two tracktrypes can run in the same direction or cross only 17:51:21 <andythenorth> then we beat minecraft 17:51:29 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause will love it 17:51:32 <andythenorth> he may actually wet himself 17:51:53 <andythenorth> hmm 17:51:59 <andythenorth> maybe we can reimplement it from scratch 17:52:06 <andythenorth> but we sack graphics, just use ascii 17:52:11 <frosch123> then you could just define that maglev crossing on normal rail need crossing gates 17:52:12 <FLHerne> frosch123: Surely for combined train/tram you'd need variable tram sprite offsets? 17:52:14 <andythenorth> hmm 17:52:19 <andythenorth> maybe we just use unicode actually 17:52:27 <andythenorth> more chars :P 17:52:33 <andythenorth> and it's 2d only 17:52:34 <FLHerne> Rails are down the middle, tramtracks are off to the side 17:52:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: just braille characters 17:52:59 <andythenorth> I don't have a braille display :( 17:53:02 <andythenorth> which is sad 17:53:04 <andythenorth> hmm 17:53:09 <andythenorth> we could get 3D printers 17:53:17 <andythenorth> then you print out each tick in braille 17:53:18 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/png2braille/ 17:53:22 <frosch123> wrote that years ago 17:53:39 <andythenorth> :) 17:53:43 <frosch123> but i cannot control the skipping between the lines 17:53:59 *** wouterh [wouterh@chat-utelscin.scintilla.utwente.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:54:17 <andythenorth> if we make the game printed, we can relax about optimisation 17:54:22 <andythenorth> as each tick will take a while :P 17:54:38 <andythenorth> hmm 17:54:42 *** wouterh [wouterh@chat-utelscin.scintilla.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 17:54:51 <andythenorth> also my idea for cargo flows 'downhill' is literally implementable 17:54:54 <FLHerne> Have it lasercut onto sheets of perspex 17:54:56 <frosch123> multiplayer would use mail? or would it also allow email? 17:55:07 <FLHerne> Then you could stack them to watch movement 17:55:16 <andythenorth> why not just fully networked? 17:55:23 <andythenorth> you both print same 17:55:34 <andythenorth> I don't think we need to over-complicate this 17:55:37 <andythenorth> keep it simple I say 17:55:50 <andythenorth> keep the current networking stack, seems to work ok 17:55:57 <andythenorth> no more latency issues either 17:56:19 <Supercheese> Client timeout: out of toner 17:56:29 <andythenorth> true 17:56:40 <andythenorth> we could keep most of newgrf 17:56:46 <frosch123> but we need some kind of cheating protection 17:56:51 <andythenorth> true 17:56:59 <frosch123> people should not be allowed to draw stuff by hand 17:57:23 <Supercheese> Well, it's hard to draw in toner, surely that has a different composition than ink 17:57:29 <andythenorth> actually I'm completely baffled what the input mechanism would be for players 17:57:36 <andythenorth> we have output, but where's the interface :o 17:57:37 <Supercheese> voice commands 17:58:19 <andythenorth> punched cards might work 17:58:34 <frosch123> yeah turn ottd into a card game 17:58:41 <frosch123> that also makes it suitable for offices 17:59:02 <andythenorth> we'd solve the OS X bugs as well 17:59:16 <andythenorth> or rather, we'd be platform independent 17:59:18 <frosch123> :o 17:59:26 <frosch123> platform independent? 17:59:34 <andythenorth> well you'd need a table I guess 17:59:35 <frosch123> not sure, it might need a solid desk for massive networks 17:59:43 <Supercheese> dammit, was just gonna say ya need a table 18:00:07 <Supercheese> Hmm, you could make the cards magnetic 18:00:14 <Supercheese> any metal surface would do 18:00:35 <andythenorth> but anyway 18:00:41 <andythenorth> 'everything is object' ? 18:00:50 <frosch123> or vehicle 18:01:00 <andythenorth> then I can recode all my grfs again 18:01:01 <frosch123> i don't know how to add a superclass to object and vehicle 18:01:12 <andythenorth> 'thing' 18:01:21 *** wouterh [wouterh@chat-utelscin.scintilla.utwente.nl] has left #openttd [] 18:01:25 <frosch123> track might be a third class 18:01:28 <frosch123> and empty void 18:01:30 <andythenorth> consider a fish processing ship? 18:01:36 <andythenorth> object or vehicle? 18:01:45 <Supercheese> Vehicle/Industry/Station 18:02:06 <andythenorth> station is a capability, not a class 18:02:13 <andythenorth> perhaps everything is just an object 18:02:18 <andythenorth> and objects can route objects 18:02:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: you mean a ship mining iron, precessing it into more ships of the same type? 18:02:28 <andythenorth> why not indeed 18:02:36 <andythenorth> cargo is an object? 18:02:47 <Supercheese> By the year 3,000, everything is just nanomachines making more nanomachines 18:02:50 <frosch123> vehicles should be cargo 18:03:09 <frosch123> but a ship can also carry a nuclear power plant 18:03:13 <andythenorth> objects: can create, route, destroy other objects 18:03:18 <frosch123> so, any "thing" can be a cargo 18:03:25 <andythenorth> true 18:04:16 <frosch123> Supercheese: yeah, overpopulation is solved my making people smaller 18:05:39 <andythenorth> in Soviet Russia, entire factories were moved by rail 18:05:44 <andythenorth> not whilst producing tanks though :P 18:06:11 <andythenorth> http://www.mammoet.com/Global/Pictures%20Canada/About%20us/Mammoet%20Moves%20Alberta!%20%20(CANADA)%20small.jpg 18:06:20 <frosch123> russia also has mobile nuclear powerplants in ships, in case you need a lot of power in some random place 18:06:30 <frosch123> it also solves the cooling issue nicely 18:07:00 <Supercheese> Error: Found opening token "In Soviet Russia", expected ending token "YOU!" not found 18:08:52 <andythenorth> frosch123: we need a newgrf spec for this :P 18:09:18 <andythenorth> cb 27D: can cargo be loaded into cargo? 18:09:27 <andythenorth> cb 39A: can cargo be routed? 18:10:13 <frosch123> cb 666: is cargo human player? 18:10:23 <andythenorth> :P 18:10:57 <Supercheese> cb1.21: is object capable of time travel? 18:12:32 <frosch123> active or passive? 18:12:41 <frosch123> does it travel itself, or does it travel other stuff only? 18:12:58 <FLHerne> cb [insert no here]: Is object retroactively built at start of game when constructed? 18:13:10 <andythenorth> FLHerne: the number will be filled in later 18:13:15 <andythenorth> by future developers 18:13:21 <andythenorth> actually we should add this to openttd 18:13:33 <andythenorth> changelog would say 18:13:35 <frosch123> oh wait, it's already there 18:13:40 <andythenorth> Feature: to be added by future developer 18:13:41 <frosch123> looks like it has been there since r1 18:13:55 <andythenorth> frosch123: it was probably there before that 18:13:59 <andythenorth> just nobody noticed 18:14:07 <andythenorth> does a feature exist if no-one is checking for it? 18:14:36 <frosch123> obviously the old svn crash was initiated by devs from the future to hide their actions 18:14:41 <FLHerne> Actually, all construction tools should have a retroactive option 18:15:01 <FLHerne> I keep wishing I'd built/modified something earlier 18:15:25 <FLHerne> It needs a setting for how long ago to build it, too :P 18:16:06 <frosch123> why? 18:16:16 <frosch123> it just needs to be there before you look at it 18:20:57 * andythenorth will be back earlier 18:20:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:22:19 <frosch123> oh shit... he caught himself in a loop 18:22:30 <frosch123> farewell andy 18:30:05 * Supercheese is designing a webpage. 18:30:22 <Supercheese> Have the border padded by 0, 1, or 2px? Hmmm 18:30:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:30:56 * Supercheese is going to be dreaming in CSS tonight. 18:31:25 <Supercheese> margin:0; 18:31:26 <Supercheese> padding:0 10px 0 20px; 18:31:28 <Supercheese> position:relative; 18:32:33 <frosch123> why px? 18:32:39 <frosch123> why not em? 18:33:03 <Supercheese> Hm, either my eyesight is failing or in Times New Roman a 0 and two parenthesis () look the same from a distance 18:33:25 <frosch123> don't bother 18:33:33 <frosch123> i just noticed myself how old i am 18:33:52 <frosch123> 10 years and 11 days ago i started my military service 18:34:34 <frosch123> that means i somehow missed 10 years schools-out 18:35:25 <Supercheese> Oh, and because padding a border by 1em is way too much padding 18:35:44 <Supercheese> That particular line was just taken at random 18:36:03 <frosch123> then use 0.1 em 18:36:42 <andythenorth> don't restart the px / em debate :P 18:36:45 <andythenorth> px had finally won 18:36:49 <andythenorth> then it got unpicked 18:36:57 <andythenorth> now we have retina to consider 18:37:00 <andythenorth> and all kinds of other crap 18:37:25 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Your concrete tile looks nice as an object :D 18:37:31 <Supercheese> I've had retinae for quite a while... ;) 18:37:54 * FLHerne made something that sort-of worked for once :P 18:39:36 <andythenorth> :) 18:39:49 * andythenorth is still griping about the game 18:40:05 <andythenorth> everything I thought I wanted - roadtypes, multistop docks, newstations etc 18:40:08 <andythenorth> I think I don't 18:40:17 <FLHerne> Why? 18:40:26 <andythenorth> everything is just more and more smooth and less and less interesting 18:40:38 <FLHerne> From which POV? 18:40:40 <andythenorth> games need facets and edges and problems 18:40:45 * frosch123 plays some alley cat 18:41:10 * andythenorth googles 18:41:27 <frosch123> 1984 18:41:46 <andythenorth> needs an OS X port :P 18:41:53 <Supercheese> Hmmm, prescale the image, or let the CSS do the scaling? 18:41:58 <FLHerne> Really? They need limitations, but not artificial and pointless ones... 18:42:03 <andythenorth> oh a broom :) 18:42:14 <andythenorth> broomcat 18:43:07 <andythenorth> we're doing it all wrong 18:43:10 <andythenorth> atm 18:43:21 <FLHerne> 90-degree-only roads are an annoyance, not an interesting restriction:-( 18:43:29 * andythenorth waits for a java version of alley cat to finish crashing Safari :P 18:43:46 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.134.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:44:08 <frosch123> it only runs in dosbox anyway 18:45:19 <Rubidium> andythenorth: which OS X does it need to be ported to? 18:45:27 <andythenorth> mine! 18:45:42 <andythenorth> not yours :P 18:47:44 <andythenorth> game timespan is too long 18:47:47 <andythenorth> maps are too big 18:47:49 <andythenorth> newgrfs are too big 18:48:20 <andythenorth> and if I wanted a model train set, I'd get one 18:48:51 <andythenorth> newgrf is win, PBS is win, GS is probably win 18:49:31 <andythenorth> and andythenorth is talking to self again :P 18:49:33 <andythenorth> time for beer 18:49:53 <andythenorth> I think BANDIT is probably going to suck btw 18:50:02 <andythenorth> every time I look at it, I wonder what the point is 18:50:03 <Supercheese> Sorry, no BEER, you forgot to put it in the cargotable 18:50:13 <andythenorth> I disagree ;) 18:50:16 <Supercheese> :P 18:50:18 <andythenorth> all trucks look about the same 18:50:28 <andythenorth> but every few years they just get a bit faster 18:50:34 <andythenorth> so then you have to autoreplace them all 18:50:45 <andythenorth> I might as well just code them to 'get a bit faster' every few years 18:50:50 <andythenorth> and give them 255 year lifespans 18:51:05 <Supercheese> Surely their running costs also change over the years 18:51:10 <frosch123> andythenorth: play a game with nuts 18:51:15 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 18:51:19 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:51:23 <andythenorth> ha 18:51:32 <andythenorth> good point 18:51:37 <andythenorth> also, spanish beer or french? 18:51:41 <frosch123> nuts has some special aspects 18:51:45 <Terkhen> neither? :P 18:51:57 <frosch123> esp. the way it deals with short vehicles, it makes all other sets look stupid 18:52:44 <frosch123> it's all about identifying mis-features and turning them into something better 18:54:00 * andythenorth tries nuts 18:57:05 * andythenorth considers playing new canset release 18:58:52 <andythenorth> frosch123: what was the misfeature in the case above? :) 19:03:26 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-55.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:03:44 <frosch123> generations of wagons with different lengths 19:03:50 <frosch123> which make autoreplace a pain 19:03:52 <frosch123> not in nuts 19:05:29 <andythenorth> autoreplace is a misfeature 19:05:34 <andythenorth> real men replace their own toy trains 19:05:40 *** pasky [pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined #openttd 19:06:39 <pasky> Hi! I have a bank with cargo station and a train station nearby; I want to use trucks to bring valuables from train station to bank and back, however this doesn't seem to work since the trucks will happily load back the valuables they just unloaded for transfer; is this scenario supposed to work with current codebase? what's the trick? 19:07:00 <FLHerne> andythenorth/frosch123: did you see the template-replacement patch on the forums? 19:07:11 <andythenorth> consists and crap? 19:07:14 <frosch123> pasky: use two stations 19:07:14 <andythenorth> meh :) 19:07:24 <frosch123> order vehicle to unload only or load only 19:07:29 <FLHerne> pasky: http://wiki.openttd.org/Two-way_feeder_service 19:07:48 <pasky> frosch123: hmm, i don't think that would work either, but i'll check FLHerne's link first :) 19:07:51 <pasky> FLHerne: thanks 19:07:54 <FLHerne> Or CargoDist, of course :P 19:07:57 <frosch123> FLHerne: yes, ofc. we discussed such feature since at least 200u8 19:08:18 <andythenorth> I think it's a misfeature 19:08:21 <FLHerne> That patch seems to be rather buggy though, sadly :-( 19:08:30 <andythenorth> if you're only playing 30 years, you don't need consists 19:08:42 <FLHerne> Works enough to be useful, though 19:08:44 * andythenorth proposes everyone must play the way andythenorth dictates 19:08:51 <andythenorth> hmm 19:09:03 <andythenorth> if games last, 30 years I can make FIRS smaller 19:09:06 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Why would you want to play 30 years? Where's the fun? :P 19:09:14 <frosch123> i thought you were bored about your style of play? :p 19:09:18 <andythenorth> I am 19:09:22 * FLHerne plays 1919 to 2012 normally 19:09:23 <andythenorth> I keep starting in 1870 19:09:33 <pasky> hmm, is the two-way feeder service dependent just on timing? 19:09:37 <andythenorth> then I watch boringly slow vehicles pottering around, with broken towns 19:09:50 <pasky> ah never mind, i think i get it now 19:09:53 <andythenorth> wondering how I'll ever get enough ships into FISH to cover pre-1950 :P 19:10:06 <andythenorth> and being annoyed that I have no trucks 19:10:15 <andythenorth> and that FIRS refuses to build industries 19:10:23 <pasky> still, wouldn't a patch for this be trivial? at least for the simple case, "don't pick up cargo if you'd unload it at the originating station" 19:10:26 <FLHerne> pasky: No. The idea is you have one station where RVs only unload an trains only load, and another for the opposite 19:10:54 <andythenorth> two way feeder service is remarkably stupid 19:10:56 <pasky> oh... well, there isn't really room for another train station :( 19:11:00 <andythenorth> I wouldn't bother 19:11:02 <pasky> i guess i'll get coding 19:11:11 <andythenorth> pasky: you'll need to track cargo packets 19:11:16 <andythenorth> enjoy ;) 19:11:30 <andythenorth> hmm 19:11:34 <pasky> but the game already knows originating station of each packet 19:11:42 * andythenorth considers changing the goals for FISH 19:11:45 <pasky> of course the naive approach won't work for complex multi-level feeder services 19:11:51 <FLHerne> pasky: There was a reason that didn't work 19:11:57 * FLHerne looks on the forums for it 19:11:57 <pasky> but i think that doesn't preclude solving the simple case 19:12:01 <frosch123> pasky: there is already such a patch somewhere which solves the case for a single hop feeder 19:12:14 <pasky> is there a reason why it wasn't merged? 19:12:28 <frosch123> i am sure there was 19:14:49 <Alberth> pasky: with 3 stations you can have cargo traveling in circles 19:15:08 <frosch123> most likely because it already fails with 3 stations, which i would consider the standard case 19:15:19 <frosch123> of rv-aircraft-rv, and rv-ship-rv 19:15:36 <pasky> Alberth: yes, but isn't it better to solve at least the simple case now? 19:16:06 <frosch123> no, i just adds useless bloat 19:16:08 <andythenorth> hmm 19:16:21 <pasky> well it's not useless when it solves an issue 19:16:22 <andythenorth> first we need to make everything cargo, then we could fix feeders 19:16:26 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08e7e9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:16:45 <frosch123> pasky: who uses two-hop feeders without using three-hop feeders? 19:17:04 <pasky> me :) 19:17:17 <andythenorth> patch locally :) 19:17:17 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:35 <pasky> sure, but why not help others too while at it 19:17:45 <FLHerne> pasky: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=61448&p=1031379&hilit=+transfer#p1031353 19:18:01 <FLHerne> That was why the simplistic cargo tagging didn't work 19:18:12 <FLHerne> See rest of thread too, in fact 19:18:12 <frosch123> maybe we try to help patchpacks to get a userbase :p 19:21:59 <Alberth> pasky: no, because it takes less than a week before we get complaints that a slightly more advanced case fails. Since the patch has no grow path to the full solution, it is just wasted effort, and creates more corner cases, and even gets in the way once you add a proper solution 19:22:10 <pasky> FLHerne: thanks, that's helpful for showing pitfalls a more proper solution must avoid 19:22:20 <Alberth> frosch123: let's start our own patchpack :p 19:22:51 <pasky> Alberth: hm, i don't really agree with most of that but i agree with the last point, that's right... 19:23:41 <frosch123> Alberth: do we have any central goal in our patch? 19:24:12 <Alberth> does it need one? 19:24:23 <Alberth> we can have one if you like 19:24:39 <Alberth> as much as possible users? 19:25:01 <frosch123> or as much as possible developers? 19:25:09 <Alberth> as much as possible patches? 19:25:38 <frosch123> yeah, in number of patches independent of loc 19:25:42 <frosch123> that sounds nice :) 19:25:58 <frosch123> but no cheating, no reverts 19:26:54 <Alberth> not needed with a patch queue :D 19:26:56 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-169-230.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:30:31 <frosch123> yeah, we should maintain the complete span between stable branches as a patch queue 19:30:43 <frosch123> no trunk commits anymore 19:30:53 <andythenorth> yay 19:31:33 * andythenorth upgrades all outdated macports packages 19:31:36 <andythenorth> this will end badly 19:31:50 * andythenorth wants to fix python 19:33:29 <frosch123> old movies are weird 19:33:41 <frosch123> sometimes they really mess up their special effects 19:33:55 <frosch123> when they could really make them way better with some trivial adjusting 19:37:54 <andythenorth> hmm 19:38:10 <andythenorth> it has been suggested that I reinstall my OS X to fix my python issues 19:38:19 <andythenorth> I am not convinced that is wise 19:38:38 <frosch123> install a virtual machine 19:38:44 <frosch123> and just python inside that 19:39:04 <frosch123> if that works you can trash you main os, and install a minimal os which only supports running vms 19:39:25 <andythenorth> then I could run OS X in the VM :P 19:40:05 * andythenorth trashes python 19:40:11 <frosch123> haha, some things never change 19:40:26 <frosch123> some pretty girls are only in a movie to get eaten alive in the third scene 19:42:31 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Linux :D 19:42:51 <andythenorth> then I could run OS X in a Linux VM 19:43:23 <FLHerne> Why would you want OSX anyway? What advantage does it have? 19:43:47 * FLHerne removed it from all his PPC Macs 19:44:01 <andythenorth> it has the advantage that I don't have to relearn 'computer' 19:44:05 <andythenorth> I don't like 'computer' 19:44:12 <andythenorth> I don't want to spend time on 'computer' 19:44:49 <FLHerne> Recabbage a Linux DE to behave mostly like OSX then :P 19:45:01 <andythenorth> sounds like work 19:46:07 <FLHerne> Use KDE, then you can change stuff to whatever makes sense to you :P 19:46:27 <FLHerne> Unfortunately, that means no-one else can use my computer, but anyway... 19:47:14 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:15 <frosch123> don't switch to something which is heading for touchscreen-usability unless you have a touchscreen 19:47:21 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:47:21 * andythenorth suspects that having two versions of python 2.6 was silly anyway 19:47:30 <frosch123> i think that is the most important rule nowadays 19:47:40 <FLHerne> Mint, with KDE, then :D 19:47:55 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:48:26 <FLHerne> Maya KDE RC1 is finally out, which is good 19:48:48 <andythenorth> maybe I should blitz setuptools 19:49:24 <andythenorth> maybe I should just do this on python 2.7 :P 19:52:41 <Zuu> maybe I should fire up visual studio and fix the coding style issue of my patch 19:53:33 <Zuu> though the problem to be fixed can easily be fixed in the patch itself, it makes sense to change the source files and re-generate the patch :-) 19:56:24 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Do the cranes etc on CHIPS tiles need such large bounding boxes? 19:56:35 <andythenorth> not sure 19:56:35 <FLHerne> Or are they just that shape for convenience? 19:56:41 <andythenorth> not sure :) 19:56:44 <andythenorth> didn't code them 19:57:13 <Alberth> Zuu: it does? I often pull patches from the queue, change the patch file, and re-apply :p 19:57:25 <FLHerne> Ok. I'll assume "they don't but it doesn't matter" than :P 19:58:01 <andythenorth> this has been puzzling me for two days now 19:58:01 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1527/ 19:58:16 <Zuu> Alberth: I tend to not touch the patch files other than sometimes grab them from .hg/.. instead of producing them on the fly. 19:58:18 <andythenorth> I have also tried a new shell after the easy_install 19:58:24 <andythenorth> I've reinstalled setuptools 19:58:30 <Zuu> but I guess that makes sense as well to change the patch. 19:58:58 <andythenorth> the 'reinstall OS X' solution will take me two days 19:59:02 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Also, why does cranes.png have two identical lines, and one which entirely consists of transparency? 19:59:22 <FLHerne> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/entry/sprites/graphics/cranes.png 19:59:35 <michi_cc> andythenorth: I don't see any line where it says /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin was added to PATH (and no line about copying/symlinking to /usr/bin or similar either) 19:59:49 <andythenorth> FLHerne: no idea 20:00:01 <andythenorth> michi_cc: I'll symlink 20:00:29 <Alberth> Zuu: it's a bit dangerous, as patch files are not version controlled 20:01:00 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Did you not draw most of it? :P 20:01:06 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Mind you I've got no idea whether this is intended or not. 20:01:19 <andythenorth> FLHerne: yes 20:01:54 <FLHerne> andythenorth: And you still don't know why it's like that? :P 20:02:02 <andythenorth> no 20:02:39 <FLHerne> Ah well. I suppose I'll find out why when I break it :P 20:02:44 <andythenorth> should this be executable in shell? /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/virtualenv 20:02:54 <andythenorth> i.e. if I do $/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/virtualenv 20:03:47 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1528/ 20:05:01 <andythenorth> hmm 20:05:05 <andythenorth> so the package is missing 20:05:48 <andythenorth> I have an egg for it in site-packages 20:06:10 <Alberth> the egg is just meta information iirc :) 20:07:09 <andythenorth> contains a bunch of .py and other files 20:09:27 <andythenorth> hmm 20:09:30 <andythenorth> my path is exporting 20:09:37 <andythenorth> my python is broken though :P 20:10:27 * andythenorth blames setuptools :P 20:11:22 <Alberth> that's ok :) 20:13:47 <andythenorth> some stuff works fine 20:18:00 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Are non-track concrete slab platforms supposed to match the track ones? They don't :P 20:18:12 <andythenorth> opengfx? 20:18:41 <FLHerne> CHIPS :P 20:19:00 <andythenorth> but which base set? 20:19:08 <FLHerne> OGFX, yes 20:19:14 <FLHerne> Ah, I see 20:20:19 <FLHerne> So it uses the baseset tiles for the full-tile tiles? 20:20:29 * FLHerne needs a thesaurus 20:22:54 <Alberth> goof night 20:22:58 <Alberth> s/f/d/ 20:23:52 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 20:26:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 20:26:25 <Wolf01> hello 20:27:47 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 20:36:17 <CornishPasty> Wow, uppercase hostname, how quaint! 20:36:53 <frosch123> sorry, but you are only the third one to notice 20:39:15 <andythenorth> ha ha 20:39:31 <andythenorth> I've totally broken my local newgrf environment now too 20:39:35 <andythenorth> hg is broken 20:39:38 <andythenorth> among other things 20:40:04 <frosch123> sounds like it was intentional : 20:40:06 <frosch123> p 20:40:20 <andythenorth> you can only rm so many things before stuff breaks :P 20:40:39 <frosch123> yeah, you should not try to reboot 20:40:50 <frosch123> better get a small generator so you do not suffer from power outage 20:43:27 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.68.254] has joined #openttd 20:44:38 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-231-254.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:46:28 <andythenorth> yay 20:46:38 <andythenorth> stack overflow is all our friends 20:47:09 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 20:49:09 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-105-229.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:56:03 * andythenorth ponders using nml in virtualenv with bootstrap 20:56:08 <andythenorth> also BANDIT, FISH :P 20:57:18 <andythenorth> oh 20:57:25 <andythenorth> the author says that's a bad idea 21:01:09 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Do you think all the rotations for cranes, forklifts etc are needed for CHIPS objects? 21:01:26 * FLHerne tries to decide how to categorise them 21:01:34 <andythenorth> you could randomise them 21:01:38 <andythenorth> I think that's what CHIPS does 21:02:05 <andythenorth> do objects have random? 21:02:19 <FLHerne> They probably do, but that wouldn't be suitable 21:02:32 <FLHerne> Eyecandy builders don't like random much :P 21:02:55 <andythenorth> better give them all the angles then ;) 21:03:19 <FLHerne> I suppose I could try that out 21:03:28 <FLHerne> Worried about menu clutter though 21:03:53 <andythenorth> pick the angles you like then 21:03:55 <andythenorth> ;) 21:04:06 <andythenorth> ship it and see who complains? 21:04:14 <FLHerne> I'll try both and see which works for me 21:07:15 <frosch123> night 21:07:18 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fefd4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:23 <andythenorth> bye 21:07:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:11:49 *** ludde [~b@c80-217-210-102.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:20:56 *** Supercheese [~chatzilla@50-37-107-68.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 21:21:23 <Terkhen> good night 21:34:55 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-231-254.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0/20120704090211]] 21:38:38 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:56:30 <Wolf01> 'night 21:56:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:59:37 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:06:28 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:31:40 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08e7e9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 22:36:37 *** ben1066_ [~quassel@2a00:dcc0:eda:89:14:179:e28f:960d] has joined #openttd 22:36:37 *** ben1066 [~quassel@2a00:dcc0:eda:89:14:179:e28f:960d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:39 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:56:05 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4AE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:58:35 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-66-115-249-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 23:34:55 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-169-230.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45:52 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67AC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:46:11 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:49:14 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.0.91] has joined #openttd 23:50:38 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.42.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]