Log for #openttd on 16th July 2012:
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06:18:35  <Terkhen> good morning
06:27:11  <dihedral> good morning Terkhen
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07:45:51  <__ln__> good dihedral, morning
08:00:58  <dihedral> that was worth the effort, wasn't it __ln__ ?
08:01:26  <__ln__> of course
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08:18:16  <Alberth> hi hi
08:19:39  <kaylar> hello
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08:25:21  <Terkhen> I wonder if they think that IRC users do nothing besides checking the channel every 10 seconds
08:25:35  <dihedral> :-D
08:32:58  <Alberth> depends on the channel :)   #python with 700+ users, someone is bound to react soon :)
08:34:19  <Alberth> imho equally possible is that they don't understand IRC, and are just trying it, and it does not speak back within a 'reasonable' time :)
08:35:03  <Alberth> just like "he, what does this button do?  .... oh, nothing"
08:37:15  <telanus> :D
08:37:51  <telanus> I see there isn't a nightly build since friday
08:39:33  <Alberth> since friday already? :o
08:45:46  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody uses nightlies :p
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08:48:18  <telanus> I do use nightlies
08:53:55  <Alberth> just build it yourself :)
09:04:00  <dihedral> aye
09:04:12  <dihedral> and then again, nobody uses nightlies :-P
09:04:53  <telanus> is it compilable with VS 2010 Express?
09:05:02  <planetmaker> yes
09:05:13  <planetmaker> hello all :-)
09:06:28  <Alberth> hi planetmaker
09:06:49  <Alberth> planetmaker: do you know the state of coding the sprites in zbase?
09:07:09  <planetmaker> as far as I've seen the coding state is 0%
09:07:39  <Alberth> oke, that sounds like there is work to do yet :)
09:07:47  <telanus> what tools do I need extra? only openttd-useful?
09:08:04  <planetmaker> and to answer your question yesterday(?): I'm definitely interested in helping. IMHO one one could either start by merging OpenGFX or by copying the relevant parts (just sprites + pnml + build) and then add via alternative sprites the new ones
09:08:06  <Alberth> a checkout of openttd
09:10:04  <Alberth> right, I don't understand some parts of that, but it sounds like a fun experiment to do :)
09:10:19  <Alberth> let's start with a checkout of both repos :)
09:11:00  <planetmaker> :-) yeah
09:11:41  <planetmaker> Alberth: what - IMHO - basically can be done: take OpenGFX. It's all in NML. Ignore it being build from scratch (e.g. don't create pngs from gimp sources)
09:11:56  <planetmaker> And then just adding the alternative_sprites block to the appropriate places
09:12:27  <planetmaker> I linked an (the only) example in the zbase thread where I already did that in OpenGFX itself for the large explosion
09:12:40  <planetmaker> that "just" needs doing hundret of times
09:12:52  <Alberth> something in that direction sounds like a plan :)
09:14:16  <planetmaker> it's IMHO also (much) easier than a newgrf approach. As it needs not the newgrf overhead
09:14:26  <planetmaker> and the required 8bpp are already coded
09:14:36  <planetmaker> and you see all progress immediately so to speak
09:14:48  <Alberth> you do?
09:14:57  * Alberth is not running 32bpp afaik :)
09:15:05  <planetmaker> I do ;-)
09:15:12  <Alberth> ie another thing to do :)
09:15:15  <planetmaker> but that's actually an easy thing to change :-P
09:16:15  <Alberth> devzone doesn't like me :(     "abort: stream ended unexpectedly (got 53678 bytes, expected 59828)"
09:16:42  <planetmaker> which repo, Alberth?
09:16:48  <Alberth> zbase
09:17:02  <planetmaker> hm. give me your ssh key. It's a http issue
09:17:11  <planetmaker> of huge repos
09:17:12  <Alberth> how big is it ?
09:17:17  <planetmaker> dunno :-) Big
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09:39:08  * telanus hasstarted a compile. Hope it works
09:44:56  <Terkhen> telanus: there is a MSVC compiling tutorial in the wiki, made by Roujin IIRC
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09:45:14  <Terkhen> it should be in his user page
09:46:05  <telanus> I followed this one:
09:48:09  <Terkhen> that one misses the info for not having to specify the openttd useful folders with each new project
09:54:37  <telanus> <Terkhen> telanus: there is a MSVC compiling tutorial in the wiki, made by Roujin IIRC <---------------- can't find this one :(
09:55:23  * Terkhen cant access the wiki now
09:56:35  <planetmaker> and... why don't you follow the VS C++ 2010?
09:56:41  <planetmaker> did you mind the differences to 2008?
09:57:28  <telanus> there isn't a 2010 one on the wiki that I found
09:58:11  <Terkhen> planetmaker: there is no official tutorial
09:58:33  <planetmaker> Terkhen: but the hints wrt 2010 are just below that one. Listing differences to 2008
09:58:54  <Terkhen> ooh, that's new
09:59:12  <telanus> yip followed that
10:03:22  <planetmaker> sorry, can't help further. I don't use windows
10:06:22  <Terkhen> I can help you when I'm back at home :P
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12:42:49  <Belugas> hello
12:51:57  <Alberth> hi
12:55:54  <Belugas> hello Alberth
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14:44:52  <kmfx88> Is there a way to have the original building and trees in the latest open TTD?
14:45:51  <planetmaker> yes. I'd like to point you to the readme
14:45:52  <kmfx88> 1.2.1 that is
14:46:20  <planetmaker> it explains in detail where to put the original grf files
14:46:33  <planetmaker> then select them in the game options dialogue ingame
14:47:04  <kmfx88> Ok. Thank you.
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14:59:06  <Alberth> hi
14:59:12  <LordAro> evenings
15:01:10  * telanus has given up on trying to build OpenTTD here :(
15:02:43  <andythenorth> hello
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15:11:50  <Ganga> sup
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15:14:34  <planetmaker> a clear case of 10s attention span :-)
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15:16:38  <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mea... oh a butterfly
15:19:56  <Eddi|zuHause> hey this one is great ;) especially the second part
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15:25:43  <Elukka> it would be sweet if someone made BuildOTTD or something equivalent work for modern versions of the game
15:26:06  <planetmaker> feel invited to do so, Elukka
15:27:37  <Elukka> yes, i know anyone can work on an open source project
15:28:49  <Rubidium> I thought that's the whole problem, there are no sources for it
15:29:03  <Rubidium> or it's built with some language that isn't used by much
15:29:07  <Rubidium> s/much/many/
15:29:31  <Elukka> all i was saying it'd be nice if there was an utility to easily build openttd with
15:29:42  <Elukka> if i had the skill or inclination or the inclination to learn the skill to do it myself i'd be doing it already
15:29:46  <Elukka> instead of saying it'd be nice :P
15:30:24  <Terkhen> I don't think that the MinGW tutorial is complicates
15:30:28  <Eddi|zuHause> is that a case of "we should do X" where it meant "YOU should do X"?
15:30:43  <Terkhen> complicated*
15:30:58  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: well, anybody other than "me", usually
15:31:12  <andythenorth> we should create an "OpenTTD ponies" websiter
15:31:16  <Terkhen> you could make a script for the whole process easily
15:31:20  <andythenorth> -r
15:31:38  * Rubidium used to have a 'compile service' that'd build patches against HEAD
15:32:08  <Terkhen> but IMO the tutorial by itself is simple enough
15:33:26  <Terkhen> telanus: did you try it?
15:33:33  <dihedral> Elukka, for 2500 € i'll be your bitch for a week and build the service for you :-P
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15:33:53  <Terkhen> s/it/the MinGW tutorial/
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15:36:42  <telanus> Terkhen: yes tried but seems I couldn't get it to compile :(
15:36:52  <Elukka> it's not like i demanded someone makes this thing for me
15:37:36  <Alberth> why bring it up in the first place?
15:38:00  <Elukka> are suggestions, or even just musing, verboten?
15:38:34  <NGC3982> verboten!
15:38:35  <Alberth> no, but they are so useless
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15:38:43  <NGC3982> best german:ish word in existance.
15:39:16  <Alberth> hi frosch
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15:39:56  <frosch123> hai
15:46:37  <Rubidium> dihedral: I hope he doesn't take your offer the wrong way ;)
15:46:49  <dihedral> :-D
15:47:00  <dihedral> then there would be a few zeros missing :-P
15:48:27  <Terkhen> telanus: which error did you get?
15:48:54  * NGC3982 gets jiggy with it.
15:53:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: if you build it, they will come
15:53:59  <telanus> Terkhen: I get a different one each time
15:54:18  <telanus> Last time, it complained it couldn't dind unicode.h
15:54:30  <Elukka> why is htere a suggestion forum?
15:54:32  <Elukka> *there
15:54:39  <telanus> before it couldn't find some other file
15:58:38  <dihedral> so people have a place to write their stuff and nobody has to care, Elukka
15:58:39  <dihedral> :-P
15:58:58  <dihedral> basically keeping the other forums free of crap :-P
15:59:47  <Eddi|zuHause> that is correct ;)
16:01:01  <Elukka> so the idea is that nobody who isn't a coder on the project can have anything worthwhile to say
16:01:12  <Elukka> i know anyone is free to join the project, but that does sound terribly insular
16:01:53  <FLHerne> Elukka: Nobody who isn't a coder can have anything worthwhile to say unless they become a coder to fulfil their proposal, apparently :P
16:02:34  <planetmaker> Elukka: everyone is free and welcome and invited to bring forward his or her suggestions on improvement of whatever aspect bothers him or her
16:02:46  <planetmaker> For that purpose we DO have the suggestions forum
16:02:54  <Elukka> okay, cool
16:02:58  <planetmaker> Contrary to popular believe it's even read
16:03:37  <planetmaker> But bringing forward a suggestion does NOT imply that anyone knowledgable about the code will immediately jump forward and say "great. I'll have it done tomorrow"
16:04:06  <planetmaker> That won't even happen with ideas which a person agrees with. Good things take time. Sometimes even considerable time
16:04:36  <planetmaker> (as in years)
16:05:19  <Elukka> yes
16:05:46  <planetmaker> of course other things go very quick as well. And that heavily depends... on the code internals.
16:05:59  <planetmaker> and the motivation :-P
16:07:39  <Elukka> i think suggestions on a project like this are less of a request of anyone to do something but rather a way to bring up issues the users have
16:08:15  <planetmaker> there's a difference between suggestion and bug...
16:09:01  <planetmaker> I disagree though that compilation of the project is an issue
16:09:53  <Elukka> well, that was in reply to the notion that suggestions are 100% useless in every case and everyone should just shut up if they're not going to do it themselves
16:10:44  * NGC3982 forgot a server running and realizes that a fair amount of inflation builds up in 1200 years.
16:10:49  <Belugas> this is utterly reductive to the real situation.  some suggestions have been coded
16:10:52  <Rubidium> making the same suggestion (again) usually is useless
16:10:53  <Belugas> not all, but some did
16:11:37  <planetmaker> NGC3982: discover min_active_clients
16:11:39  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: inflation stops after 170 years
16:11:49  * Rubidium wonders how people will like it if that tool were written in labview which requires a 100+ MB runtime ;)
16:12:01  <planetmaker> haha, Rubidium :-)
16:12:06  <planetmaker> let's write it in scada
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16:12:32  <Elukka> for the record i'm agreeing with you here planetmaker :P
16:12:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a Siemens S300 here, maybe that helps :)
16:12:45  <Rubidium> maybe I should make a qemu mips image that builds windows binaries ;)
16:12:59  <NGC3982> planetmaker: and so, i did! \o/
16:13:09  <planetmaker> Elukka: usually wordings like "...someone could make..." produce results like "make it yourself"
16:13:29  <Elukka> i just said it would be nice if x existed
16:13:45  <Terkhen> telanus1: you probably forgot the etc/fstab step
16:14:09  <planetmaker> you said "...if someone made BuildOTTD or something equivalent..."
16:14:26  <planetmaker> which implies a strong "not me"
16:14:29  <NGC3982> x, on openttd? :3
16:15:03  <planetmaker> might be nuances, but that's how a "someone" usually comes accross and how "someone" is interpreted
16:15:18  <planetmaker> even when not intended
16:15:30  <planetmaker> (just explaining the response)
16:15:40  <Rubidium> someone should make browser hotkeys configurable
16:15:50  <planetmaker> :-)
16:15:55  <Rubidium> especially the ones in firefox so I can disable CTRL+Q
16:16:01  <NGC3982> you guys are talking x and browsers
16:16:04  <NGC3982> im confused.
16:16:11  <Rubidium> it's awfully close to W
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16:16:14  * NGC3982 drinks more bear-beer.
16:16:30  <Elukka> okay, true
16:17:24  <planetmaker> as general advise: state what you like see changed. But don't imply that someone else should do it :-)
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16:17:42  <planetmaker> (but even then you can get the same response :-P )
16:17:47  <planetmaker> don't take it personal
16:17:57  <Elukka> no, i wouldn't expect devs to do my bidding :P
16:18:04  <planetmaker> and agreed: a "do it yourself" response is not really nice
16:19:39  <NGC3982> is this the same discussion i always fall in when flamewar stops after somebody have used "<random useless feature> would be nice to implement."
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16:21:13  <Coupon12> Does anyone know how to edit the openttd source code in visual studio?
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16:21:40  <NGC3982> Coupon12: there should be support for the files as it is, as far as i know.
16:21:45  <NGC3982> oh, sorry.
16:21:56  <NGC3982> never mind me, i didnt read "source code".
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16:22:23  <Coupon12> I got the openttd-useful-4.2-any
16:22:31  <planetmaker> Coupon12: I suggest: open file(s). Edit at will :-)
16:22:40  <Coupon12> also the svn
16:22:48  <Coupon12> But I have to do the include directories and all that
16:22:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Coupon12: in the svn you have the .sln files
16:22:55  <Eddi|zuHause> in projects
16:23:03  <Coupon12> ok i'll try and show you the errors
16:23:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you open the one for your visual studio (8,9 or 10)
16:23:51  <NGC3982> <- is there something i miss here? the trains havent autoreplaced in a good while.
16:24:04  <Coupon12> 10
16:24:12  <Coupon12> I get all these errors saying:
16:24:52  <Coupon12> error C1083: Cannot open include file: '(some file goes here)': no such file or directory
16:24:54  <Coupon12> when i try ti build
16:25:08  <Coupon12> like png.h
16:25:24  <glx> that's in openttd-useful
16:25:38  <Coupon12> I got that, but I don't see any of the include and library folders
16:25:39  <Eddi|zuHause> then is not in your library path
16:26:22  <Coupon12> oh wait, i must ahv downloaded the wrong one
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16:34:50  <Coupon12> I got the openttd-useful thing fixed
16:34:59  <Coupon12> but now when i try to build i get 6 errors like this
16:35:14  <Coupon12> Error	1	error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: static void __fastcall ScriptCargoMonitor::StopAllMonitoring(void)" (?StopAllMonitoring@ScriptCargoMonitor@@SIXXZ)	C:\Users\Michael\Documents\junk\openttd svn\projects\game_instance.obj	openttd
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16:36:39  <Coupon12> It happens at the end of the build
16:36:59  <Alberth> that's when you run a linker indeed :)
16:37:08  <Coupon12> What is a linker
16:37:29  <Alberth> oh dear :)
16:37:41  <Alberth> a build has two steps
16:38:09  <Alberth> first is compile, translating each c++ file to an object file. That happens for all c++ files
16:38:18  <Coupon12> because i normally use c#, but i'm just using c++ for this one
16:38:29  <Alberth> second is linking, which links all object files together into one executable
16:38:35  <__ln__> you call OpenTTD junk?
16:38:43  <Coupon12> it's just a file i use for random stuff
16:38:46  <Coupon12> *folder
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16:39:09  <glx> try a full rebuild
16:39:19  <glx> sometimes that fixes link errors
16:40:28  <Coupon12> still got the same error
16:40:55  <Coupon12> so where do i get a linker?
16:41:00  <glx> hmm it may be related to a recent commit
16:41:07  * glx checks
16:41:14  <Coupon12> i have teamviewer
16:42:27  <glx> Alberth: I think you forgot something in r24406 :)
16:43:29  <Alberth> oef :(
16:43:39  <glx> (source.list and generate)
16:44:16  <glx> thanks for the report Coupon12 :)
16:44:26  <Coupon12> what did i do?
16:44:45  <glx> the error is in openttd source
16:44:56  <Coupon12> oh i thought you meant report because i broke a rule
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16:45:24  <Coupon12> well there are 6 other similar errors too
16:45:55  <Coupon12> Error	2	error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: static unsigned int __fastcall ScriptCargoMonitor::GetIndustryPickupAmount(enum ScriptCompany::CompanyID,unsigned char,unsigned short,bool)" (?GetIndustryPickupAmount@ScriptCargoMonitor@@SIIW4CompanyID@ScriptCompany@@EG_N@Z)	C:\Users\Michael\Documents\junk\openttd svn\projects\game_instance.obj	opentt
16:46:12  <glx> yes missing files in the project
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16:46:38  <Coupon12> so is it in the configuration properties?
16:46:51  <Coupon12> or i have to get another source?
16:47:02  <Alberth> only generate, it seems :)
16:47:18  <Coupon12> this is my first time doing anything with c++. i use c#
16:47:46  <glx> indeed Alberth
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16:47:56  <Alberth> I will add it
16:48:15  <Coupon12> i don't even know what generate is
16:48:22  <Coupon12> wait never mind
16:49:09  <Alberth> update svn please
16:49:09  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r24408 /trunk/projects/ (4 files): -Fix (r24406): Forgot to add the new files to the Studio build list.
16:49:54  <Coupon12> well i have other errors too
16:49:57  <Coupon12> do i post them all
16:50:04  <Alberth> pastebin :)
16:50:36  <glx> but update first
16:50:40  <Alberth>
16:51:02  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:52:39  <andythenorth> so
16:52:43  <Coupon12>
16:52:44  * andythenorth wonders
16:52:52  <Coupon12> oh i didn't update first
16:52:52  <andythenorth> wtf do most newgrfs offer same vehicles in all climates?
16:52:56  <andythenorth> mine included
16:52:59  <andythenorth> it's dumb
16:53:11  <NGC3982> same vehicles - different colors?
16:53:49  *** peter1138 [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:54:11  <NGC3982> andythenorth: as recalled vagely from the grf tutorial. doesnt most vehicle grf code ignore the map type?
16:54:23  <andythenorth> yes
16:54:31  <andythenorth> but why do we do it?
16:54:33  <andythenorth> it's silly
16:54:44  <NGC3982> indeed
16:54:57  <Alberth> everybody ignores existence of 3 new other climates
16:55:01  <andythenorth> default game offers 4 different gameplay experiences out of the box
16:55:17  <andythenorth> whereas with my grfs, the terrain is completely incidentall
16:55:21  <andythenorth> so it's all very 'meh'
16:55:48  <andythenorth> and the more I convert my grfs to be generated, the more 'meh' they get
16:56:06  <andythenorth> because generated grfs have to fit to a framework of common cases
16:59:39  <NGC3982> i see.
16:59:48  <NGC3982> Alberth: did you say new?
17:00:39  <Alberth> yep, I did; no idea why tbh
17:02:11  * andythenorth types a lot of things and has no idea why
17:02:17  <andythenorth> it's slightly like having someone else in my head
17:03:38  <NGC3982> Alberth: i thought i missed out on something important. :p
17:04:22  <Alberth> NGC3982: that depends whether you ever played anything else than the temperate climate
17:08:06  *** Pulec [] has quit [Quit: Pulce sezrali]
17:08:28  <NGC3982> indeed.
17:08:44  * NGC3982 looks at the last star trek the next generation episode for the first time.
17:09:48  *** LordAro [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:10:21  *** Pulec [] has joined #openttd
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17:22:13  <andythenorth> so grf offers all vehicles in all climates
17:22:25  <andythenorth> hmm
17:22:37  * andythenorth can't think of viable alternatives tbh
17:24:42  <Alberth> (possibly some) different vehicles in different climates?   different characteristics?
17:24:59  <Alberth> some climates have no electric tracks
17:25:19  <andythenorth> so for HEQS...?
17:25:29  <andythenorth> which mining trucks aren't valid for arctic?
17:25:31  <andythenorth> etc
17:25:35  * andythenorth ponders
17:26:45  <andythenorth> same issue for ships
17:27:26  <michi_cc> Specialized vehicles that are used globally are used globally, no need to tinker with that. Many other NewGRFs suggest (or even enforce, e.g. DBSet) a specific climate, but still have only a single set of vehicles.
17:27:51  <andythenorth> in default TTD, planes are same in all climates?
17:27:53  <andythenorth> hmm
17:27:55  <andythenorth> and RVs and ships
17:28:03  * andythenorth is arguing from poor evidence :P
17:28:32  <andythenorth> another idea bites the dust
17:28:36  <andythenorth> only another 99 to go :)
17:28:44  <michi_cc> The historical reasoning is that NewGRFs don't provide different vehicles/stations/whatever per climate, but instead the player is simply supposed to select different NewGRFs for different climates.
17:28:50  <andythenorth> yup
17:29:03  <andythenorth> that's maybe how BANDIT would handle it, if I ever get that far
17:30:06  <andythenorth> FIRS is same in all climates
17:30:08  <andythenorth> silly old FIRS
17:30:16  <Alberth> wiki suggests mostly trains are different
17:30:44  <Alberth> FIRS does not fit in toyland imo
17:30:57  <andythenorth> orly :D
17:31:33  <FLHerne> Alberth: Would it not be possible to swap Toyland for something else? :P
17:31:52  <FLHerne> I doubt even 0.5% of games use it :-(
17:32:04  <KenjiE20> blasphemy
17:32:37  * Alberth likes toyland, very nicely animated industries
17:33:05  <FLHerne> Couldn't they have drawn nicely animated industries of something else?
17:33:26  * FLHerne would find rainforest interesting...
17:33:33  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24409 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt french.txt korean.txt):
17:33:33  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:33:33  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: croatian - 3 changes by VoyagerOne
17:33:33  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: french - 3 changes by glx
17:33:33  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: korean - 2 changes by telk5093
17:33:42  <Alberth> already exists, in tropical climate :p
17:33:44  <KenjiE20> because that's not in subtropic at all
17:34:05  <NGC3982> the word subtropic makes me giggle
17:34:11  <NGC3982> since it reminds me of Tropico.
17:34:23  * NGC3982 starts #CubanTTD
17:35:14  <Alberth> FLHerne: like  ?
17:35:57  *** LordAro [] has joined #openttd
17:38:52  <telanus> Cool: r24408 made openttd compile here
17:38:53  *** telanus is now known as telanus1
17:39:00  *** telanus1 is now known as telanus
17:39:08  <FLHerne> Alberth: That's even more painful on the eyes, even :o
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17:39:54  <Alberth> telanus: nice
17:41:47  <andythenorth> zool!
17:41:52  <andythenorth> toyland should look like zool!
17:41:52  <andythenorth>
17:42:12  <Alberth> telanus: now you are one of the few with the new cargo monitoring functionality :)
17:42:22  <andythenorth> sound track by
17:42:29  <andythenorth> we should get him to do us a new sound track
17:43:28  <andythenorth> can we make a GPL version of Lotus?
17:43:29  <andythenorth>
17:43:47  * NGC3982 loves the anti time paradox.
17:44:00  <NGC3982> Alberth: im in.
17:44:06  <NGC3982> andythenorth: im in*
17:44:17  <andythenorth> can you code?
17:44:38  <andythenorth> graphics look straightforward :P
17:44:38  <andythenorth>
17:45:01  <Rubidium> is there a remake of Stunts?
17:45:17  <andythenorth> was that similar to Stunt Racer 2000?
17:45:25  <andythenorth> or Stunt Car Racer?
17:45:47  <andythenorth> oh I remember stunts
17:45:51  <andythenorth> you could drive anywhere on the landscape
17:46:02  <andythenorth> it was crappy performance on my friend's Amiga
17:46:32  <LordAro> re recent commit: bad Alberth, forgot to run the script yesterday :P
17:46:33  <szaman> my boss played stunts last week in his office
17:46:46  <szaman> in dosbox :]
17:46:52  <andythenorth> Stunt Racer 2000 was epic, it combined Stunts and Stunt Car Racer
17:47:00  <andythenorth> but it was Acorn RISC OS only
17:47:04  <andythenorth> so most of you never saw it :P
17:47:21  <Alberth> LordAro: I didn't add that file yesterday :p
17:48:38  <Alberth> andythenorth: I did have a riscos machine, but not many games
17:48:55  <andythenorth> Stunt Racer 2000 was epic, and Chocks Away
17:49:00  <andythenorth> most other games were so-so or lame :P
17:49:02  <frosch123> Rubidium: trackmania is the modern stunts
17:49:13  <andythenorth> I ended up writing animations using basic
17:49:26  <andythenorth> prefiguring my entire later life :P
17:49:38  <LordAro> trackmania is awesome :)
17:49:52  * LordAro is random comments guy today
17:49:59  <andythenorth> I saw some space game being played today
17:50:05  <andythenorth> you assemble rockets and launch them
17:50:07  <andythenorth> looked neat
17:51:22  <andythenorth>
17:51:27  <Alberth> andythenorth: :o  I know Chocks Away, LOTS of fun!
17:51:44  <andythenorth> Alberth: could we recreate it?
17:52:00  <andythenorth> an 8mhz, 2MB RISC OS device....
17:52:17  <andythenorth> so I guess we could probably get acceptable performance on a modern laptop?
17:52:18  <Alberth> I sold mine a long time ago :p
17:52:32  <andythenorth> Open Chocks Away!
17:52:41  <Alberth> I don't see why that would not be possible
17:52:48  <andythenorth> how hard can it be?
17:53:00  <andythenorth> it did draw actual 3D vector graphics iirc
17:53:04  <Alberth> 1-2 years of work?
17:53:10  <andythenorth> probably
17:53:14  <andythenorth> they were small teams
17:53:15  <LordAro> kerbal space program also looks awesome
17:53:34  <andythenorth> 4th Dimension was only a few guys, and they also did e-type, stunt racer 2000, and that space thing
17:54:49  <Coupon12> the openttd thing is missing files
17:54:55  <Coupon12> ol' what was it called
17:56:36  <Coupon12> oh nvm
17:56:59  <andythenorth> Alberth: look how smooth it ran :)
17:57:20  <Coupon12> I can never get spaceplanes to take off
17:58:20  <Coupon12> They always fall off the side of the runway and crash
17:59:19  <Coupon12> oh i thought you were talking about kerbal space program again
17:59:40  <frosch123> what's that?
17:59:41  <frosch123> amiga?
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17:59:59  <frosch123> it starts with A
18:00:08  <frosch123> but i only remember 3 digit numbers
18:00:30  <NGC3982> andythenorth: "bwrrrrrrr"
18:00:41  <andythenorth> Acorn
18:00:53  <andythenorth> hmm maybe we track down Andrew Hutchings?
18:00:57  <andythenorth> who was the author
18:00:57  *** TWerkhoven [] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into]
18:01:08  <andythenorth> my friend is called Andrew Hutchings, I doubt they are the same person :P
18:01:30  <Coupon12> heh
18:02:20  <Coupon12> does anyone know of a program that can decompile assembly to c++ or c#
18:04:28  <andythenorth> well this is Andrew Hutchings' brother apparently
18:05:05  <andythenorth> who else had RISC OS?
18:05:13  <andythenorth> Born_Acorn probably I guess
18:05:18  <andythenorth> I think peter1138 did too
18:05:43  <Coupon12> trying to build the openttd source code
18:05:58  <Coupon12> oh wait it worked
18:06:27  <Coupon12> is it possible to run openttd from visual studio?
18:06:36  <Coupon12> with ctrl+f5
18:07:16  <Coupon12> Because when i try, this dialog comes up saying it requires graphics
18:08:16  <Alberth> Coupon12: yep, you need to install some data files too, read the readme file
18:08:43  <Coupon12> I have them installed with the regular openttd
18:08:49  <Coupon12> this is from visual studio
18:09:19  <Alberth> then they are not installed so they can be shared, I guess
18:10:05  <Alberth> Coupon12: note that "decompile" normally goes from high-level languages (C/C++ etc) to low-level languages (eg assembly language)
18:10:19  *** Coupon12 [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
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18:10:57  <telanus> Is there a way to make firs build Fishing harbours at the coast (on the edge of the map) and not in a small pond (in the middle of the map?
18:11:43  <andythenorth> not really
18:15:49  <Coupon12> ugh, when i try to download opengfx i get the yellow screen of death
18:16:27  * andythenorth ponders removing fishing harbour
18:17:09  <Coupon12> how do you download bundles?
18:17:33  <Hirundo> andythenorth: just deliver fish directly to shops in towns?
18:17:40  <andythenorth> maybe
18:17:54  <andythenorth> I don't like including things that are irrevocably broken
18:18:01  <andythenorth> fishing harbour is such a thing
18:21:35  <Coupon12> alright, where do i put the opengfx files
18:23:07  *** Coupon12 [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
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18:30:19  <telanus> Andythenorth, what about fishing markets in towns?
18:30:42  <andythenorth> possible
18:31:20  <andythenorth> the harbours have to go I think
18:31:36  * andythenorth ponders deleting the fishing chain entirely
18:31:50  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Nooo! :-(
18:32:06  <andythenorth> FIRS is too big
18:32:15  <FLHerne> Provides a real use for small boats
18:32:25  <FLHerne> And no, it's still too small :P
18:33:21  <FLHerne> It needs fish markets and non-town-attached fish processing plants, then fishing chain will work better
18:33:38  <andythenorth> that's more stuff, not less
18:33:42  <andythenorth> less stuff is the goal
18:34:02  <FLHerne> More stuff [i]should[/i] be the goal :-)
18:34:13  <FLHerne> More stuff is good :D
18:34:55  <FLHerne> Would it be possible to give fishing harbours integrated docks? They are [i]harbours[/i]...
18:35:52  <andythenorth> no
18:36:12  <frosch123> industries are neutral
18:36:22  <frosch123> you cannot combine them with company owned stations
18:36:34  <FLHerne> Can only water-surrounded things have docks, then? Or only primary industries?
18:36:51  <FLHerne> Why can't they have neutral stations, anyway?
18:36:53  <andythenorth> the water industries have a dock because there is no alternative
18:37:03  <andythenorth> neutral stations are considered highly undesirable for gameplay
18:37:09  <andythenorth> I don't know the issue, I never play in MP
18:37:12  <andythenorth> but it was a flat 'no'
18:37:24  <andythenorth> vetoed
18:37:40  <andythenorth> also, they gain helicopter pads with the station
18:37:43  <FLHerne> I think they mess up the transfers because you can use them to swap cargo between companies :-(
18:37:50  <andythenorth> helipad causes bug reports
18:38:02  <FLHerne> Can it detect SP v MP?
18:38:48  <andythenorth> don't think so
18:39:25  <FLHerne> Have a parameter then :P (default off maybe). It seems silly to have to build a dock to serve a harbour :P
18:40:46  <andythenorth> parameters = string
18:40:51  <andythenorth> string = buggy grf
18:41:18  <FLHerne> How does that follow?
18:41:21  <andythenorth> i.e. big ball of string running through the grf = bad
18:41:28  <andythenorth> don't tie everything up in string
18:41:53  <andythenorth> clean interface, not 'if x then z, but not on tuesdays'
18:42:31  <andythenorth> basically fishing harbours are a stupid idea
18:42:36  <andythenorth> and should go
18:42:59  <FLHerne> Possibly, in that case. Have fish markets in towns, instead? :P
18:43:10  <andythenorth> kind of boring
18:43:15  <andythenorth> will mean always having to transfer
18:43:25  <FLHerne> Which is good! :P
18:43:26  <andythenorth> unless they end up on the coast
18:43:51  <FLHerne> And the problem with transfers is...?
18:44:36  <andythenorth> boring to set up
18:44:38  <andythenorth> loads of clicks
18:45:08  <andythenorth>'s not any worse than current fishing harbour situation
18:45:11  <FLHerne> And the problem with clicks is...? :P
18:45:16  <andythenorth> boring
18:45:26  <FLHerne> Really? :o
18:45:30  <andythenorth> the current fishing harbour placement often needs transfers anyway :P
18:45:33  <andythenorth> as it's broken
18:46:27  <FLHerne> No, the way OTTD generates water is broken :-(
18:47:04  <andythenorth> ah
18:47:16  <andythenorth> I'm not sure that FIRS fishing ground code survived the nml migration
18:47:30  <andythenorth> I made harbours locate quite close to fishing grounds
18:47:47  <andythenorth> it's very annoying when the only harbour is on the other side of the map to the fishing grounds
18:47:49  <FLHerne> It makes no sense, there should be far more contiguous stuff, with lakes higher than sea level, rivers actually following catchment areas, etc :P
18:47:52  <andythenorth> that code is missing in action
18:48:19  * andythenorth wonders if other similar co-location code is MIA
18:48:24  <andythenorth> the clustering is broken too
18:48:32  <FLHerne> Not to mention downhill rivers from lakes to the sea, which just don't exist :-(
18:48:52  * andythenorth -> pub
18:48:56  <andythenorth> bye
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19:36:22  <NGC3982>
19:36:31  <NGC3982> meanwhile, in germany.
19:38:57  <frosch123> who's that guy?
19:40:24  <telanus> might be this bloke:
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19:46:59  <Chris_Booth> take is someone doesn't like loud David Guetta
19:47:31  <Wolf01> hello o/
19:48:19  <Chris_Booth> hi Wolf01
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20:00:58  <Wolf01> gah, I hate the Steam sales... Steam is already like a drug, when they start the sales it's an overdose!
20:01:29  <Wolf01> (but my bank balance doesn't think the same)
20:04:03  * Terkhen agrees :P
20:04:52  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
20:04:56  <Terkhen> that's why they add so many free games and sell their own games dirt cheap to get you into it
20:05:01  <Terkhen> :D
20:06:03  <Wolf01> when I started to use it there weren't free games :P
20:06:23  <Wolf01> if not some rare cases
20:09:59  <__ln__> is CitiesXL any good?
20:11:23  <Wolf01> from the screenshots it looks promising
20:11:46  <Terkhen> yes, when I started there weren't many either
20:11:55  <Terkhen> but at some point they even made TF2 free :P
20:12:18  <Wolf01> but I'm a n00b at these games, I didn't manage to run a Sim City 4 city for more than 5 years
20:13:13  <__ln__> the screenshots do not really show anything about what's the gameplay like
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20:14:02  <Wolf01> I've seen some videos when it was announced, but I don't remember it well
20:20:09  <Sacro> __ln__: it's not amazing
20:20:14  <Sacro> SC4 with mods is better
20:23:52  <__ln__> i see
20:29:23  <__ln__> Wolf01: what's cheap (no more than 5€) and good?
20:29:45  <Wolf01> let me se
20:29:47  <Wolf01> see
20:30:51  <Wolf01> trine, fable, but you must like the genres
20:31:24  <Wolf01> assassin's creed (the first one) if you don't have it already
20:31:47  <Wolf01> oh there is assassi'ns creed 2 too
20:34:02  <__ln__> i guess i could pick one or two and try; i don't tend to play much so i'm a bit unfamiliar with games of the 2000's :)
20:34:37  <Wolf01> then lurk on the star wars franchise pack
20:34:41  <Wolf01> :)
20:35:24  <Wolf01> I purchased it this xmas, all the dark forces saga
20:36:07  <Wolf01> and the jedi knights too
20:40:37  <__ln__> i have some something-jedi for ps3, but since i forgot its name i probably haven't played it in a while
20:41:47  <Wolf01> the force unleashed maybe
20:42:34  <__ln__> yeah, that's the one
20:42:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: "10 year old game with mods" is always better than "brand new game rushed to a release"
20:43:50  <Wolf01> you have a spectacular example: the game which names this channel :P
20:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause> also Civ4 with mods is "better" than Civ5
20:45:09  <Eddi|zuHause> look at the balance fixes they did in the first few months... it's fairly obvious that it was rushed
20:45:22  * Terkhen did not like Civ5 at all
20:45:52  <Eddi|zuHause> actually i do like Civ5. the gameplay is significantly different from Civ4, and thus interesting.
20:46:19  <Wolf01> I only played Civ2
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20:47:41  <telanus> I've got Civ chronicles
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20:52:50  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what that even is
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20:54:00  <Coupon12> what part of the source code is for the trains and their stats?
20:54:03  <Coupon12> like maximum speed?
20:54:13  <Alberth> none
20:54:27  <Alberth> they are coded in NewGRFs
20:54:35  <Coupon12> then how do i change that
20:54:41  <Alberth> make a newgrf
20:55:03  <telanus> Eddi|zuHause:
20:55:37  <Coupon12> i mean the newgrf that has the code for the starting trains
20:56:01  <Alberth> Coupon12:   <-- that's a nice program for making newgrf
20:56:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Coupon12:
20:56:58  <Alberth> you can override almost anything from existing vehicles
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21:01:29  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea if he got what he actually wanted
21:05:58  <telanus> night alll
21:06:09  <Wolf01> night telanus
21:06:29  *** telanus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:07:11  <NGC3982>
21:07:16  <NGC3982> <3
21:08:40  <Supercheese> Too bad about .jpg, though  ;)
21:08:47  <NGC3982> ;_;
21:09:17  * Supercheese wonders when .jpg will cease to be the standard image filetype
21:10:25  <glx> it's ok for photos
21:10:40  <Wolf01> and if you use 100% quality it's really good ;)
21:14:06  <Supercheese> The average user is completely unaware that there even is a quality option for .jpgs
21:14:22  <Supercheese> Alas
21:15:09  <FLHerne> Good for squeezing onto floopies, though :-)
21:15:59  <Wolf01>
21:16:11  <Supercheese> I don't think I even have any device currently running with a floppy drive
21:16:40  <Supercheese> some old computers in boxes, but that's about it
21:16:51  <FLHerne> Wolf01: I have twice that number of floppies, but no MicroSD cards or card readers :P
21:17:00  <Wolf01> ahah
21:17:05  <FLHerne> USB thumb drives are nice, though
21:17:58  <FLHerne> Made my floppies obsolete except for things without USB drives :-)
21:18:08  <Prof_Frink> Floopy drive :D
21:18:09  <FLHerne> s/drives/ports/
21:18:20  <Terkhen> good night
21:18:22  <frosch123> internet everywhere made any kind of mobile media obsolete
21:18:41  <Wolf01> night Terkhen
21:18:59  <FLHerne> Only if your device has wifi/Ethernet/Bluetooth, though :P
21:19:05  <FLHerne> Terkhen: night
21:19:16  <Prof_Frink> frosch123: The object sat next to me would disagree.
21:19:39  <Supercheese> And even on devices with mobile internet, [Micro]SD is very useful for local storage, like for phones with limited internal memory
21:20:26  <FLHerne> Tried internet over infra-red? Don't. It doesn't work :P
21:20:38  <Prof_Frink> A couple of hundred gig of daily backups would not fit down the intertubes in an acceptable amount of time.
21:20:40  <frosch123> if you never remove the storage from the device, then it's not mobile storage, is it?
21:21:05  <Supercheese> I remove it all the time to transfer stuff between PC and device, but perhaps that's just me
21:21:06  <frosch123> at least i wouldn't call a harddisk mobile, even if it is inside a notebook
21:21:40  <frosch123> maybe, removable media is the more correct term :)
21:22:45  <Prof_Frink> Not a harddisk, and definitely removable.
21:23:58  <frosch123> well, maybe we can at least agree on the fakt, that dvd burners are useless except for stealing movies
21:24:15  <frosch123> and even for that the usage is questionable
21:24:33  <FLHerne> frosch123: Burning install disks
21:24:51  <Supercheese> I can't remember the last time I used optical media on a PC outside of burning music CDs to play in my car
21:25:03  <Supercheese> Oh, wait, it was to make a recovery CD for me OS
21:25:11  <FLHerne> And transferring files that don't fit onto a floppy to transfer to non-networkable devices
21:25:23  <frosch123> yeah, minimal boot cds :)
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21:26:00  <FLHerne> And when you want to copy .openttd to another computer and lost your thumb drive :P
21:28:11  <frosch123> what's the use of openttd without repository access?
21:28:49  <FLHerne> Playing?
21:29:14  <FLHerne> My laptop has CD-installed Debian, but no Ethernet :P
21:29:16  <frosch123> hmm, i'll sleep over that :p
21:29:17  <frosch123> night
21:29:21  <FLHerne> Night
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22:10:56  <Wolf01> 'night all
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