Log for #openttd on 23rd July 2012:
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03:28:19  <Elukka>
03:28:20  <Elukka> yay kerbals
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06:20:35  <Terkhen> good morning
06:22:50  <telanus> morning
06:28:05  <NGC3982> morning.
06:28:12  <Supercheese> but... it's night here
06:28:53  <Supercheese> hmm, we need timezone agnostic times
06:28:59  <Supercheese> good waking, perhaps
06:29:16  <Supercheese> presuming awakening happened recently
06:31:29  <telanus> could work
06:32:00  <telanus> but one would get the same problem using good awakening
06:32:42  <Supercheese> Too close to Great Awakening, perhaps
06:33:22  <Supercheese> "Salve, excitate"   for some Latin panache  ;)
06:37:19  <NGC3982> let's make irc timezone neutral
06:37:28  <NGC3982> morning = "hi".
06:37:31  <NGC3982> :/
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06:44:03  <telanus1> hi
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06:48:20  <Supercheese> "Salve, excitate" instead of good morning, and "Vale, dormiture" instead of good night. :P
06:49:00  <Supercheese> of course, that would violate the English-only rule
06:50:42  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: what's that supposed to solve?
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06:53:21  <Supercheese> Utilizing Latin to provide concise, timezone-agnostic greetings and farewells
06:53:43  <Supercheese> as opposed to "[good] morning", which is awkward when it's nighttime in your local timezone
06:53:56  <Supercheese> anyhow, I'm sleepy and rambling
06:55:54  <__ln__> i'm pretty sure "dormiture" means something like sleeping
06:56:12  <Supercheese> it's easier in Latin; in English you'd have to say "Hi, recently-awakened"
06:56:28  <Supercheese> or "Bye, about-to-sleep"
06:56:40  <Supercheese> the literal translations :P
06:57:05  <Supercheese> but I digress from anything relevant
06:58:10  <__ln__> why don't we embrace Swatch® Internet Time, and say something like "good @730 everyone!"
06:58:59  <Supercheese> Probably have to pay royalties for that
06:59:06  <Supercheese> :P
06:59:45  <Supercheese> Ceterum, dormiturus sum
06:59:51  <Supercheese> Valete
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07:07:55  * Terkhen will stick to good morning
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07:24:10  <planetmaker> moin
07:24:34  <Alberth> moin
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07:26:07  <Alberth> moin andy
07:26:26  <Terkhen> hi planetmaker, Alberth and andythenorth
07:26:40  <andythenorth> bonjour
07:32:26  <planetmaker> Alberth, should we maybe supply a pre-compiled version of zbase somewhen?
07:32:30  <planetmaker> Do you want? Shall I?
07:32:49  <planetmaker> (until I fix building with CF)
07:33:10  * andythenorth looks for pictures of tankers
07:33:27  <Alberth> planetmaker:  Seems like a good idea to me
07:34:10  <Alberth> planetmaker:  can you dig up the terrain template you made?
07:34:47  <planetmaker> which do you mean?
07:34:54  <Alberth> currently I am running a python script to do the expansion
07:35:55  <planetmaker> hm, I made one for my toy. one moment
07:36:01  <Alberth> alternative_sprites(spr3924, ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP) { tmpl_32bpp064_groundtiles("terrain/terrain_temperate", 73) }  <-- the 'tmpl_32bpp064_groundtiles template
07:36:33  <andythenorth> cement tanker
07:36:45  * andythenorth wants someone to draw conical tanks for a river barge
07:36:46  <andythenorth> :P
07:37:11  <planetmaker> Alberth: <-- my sprites/templates/sprite_templates.pnml
07:37:21  <Alberth> a dutch ship!
07:37:43  <andythenorth> :)
07:38:12  <planetmaker> only the template
07:38:52  <Alberth> planetmaker: thanks, will put it into zbasebuild
07:39:12  <planetmaker> Alberth, you might consider whether line 11 is actually right
07:43:42  <Alberth> I have the same list
07:44:20  <Alberth> let's do a test :)
07:45:32  <planetmaker> Alberth, the image offsets are a plain copy from what you created in the python script ;-)
07:45:42  <planetmaker> I was far too lazy to figure out myself again :-P
07:46:22  <Alberth> at least they are now all wrong in the same way :p
07:46:29  <planetmaker> wrong?
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07:48:24  <Alberth> betting they are wrong gives much better odds :)
07:49:38  <Eddi|zuHause> so i've been wondering, what is the reasoning behind the ship-depot grid autosizing to sprite size, but not the purchase window?
07:51:45  <Alberth> there is none
07:52:12  <andythenorth> changing the purchase window sprite size is smelly
07:52:36  <andythenorth> chris sawyer decided it would be ~76px, and that shouldn't change
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07:52:59  <Alberth> CS didn't have large ships not articulated thingies
07:53:03  <Alberth> *nor
07:53:16  <andythenorth> besides, this looks good, no?
07:53:31  <andythenorth> nice crisp right hand edge to those sprites :P
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07:54:21  <V453000> looks good to me andy
07:54:28  * andythenorth was being English
07:54:36  <andythenorth> it looks not great :
07:54:47  <andythenorth> I don't hate it, but it could be better :P
07:54:59  <Alberth> I would chop off the bow, tbh
07:54:59  <V453000> okay :D that it similar to what I am drawing atm
07:55:14  <andythenorth> it's an unfair case because the ships aren't all drawn yet
07:55:22  <andythenorth> they will have more variety when finished
07:55:30  <andythenorth> anyway
07:55:36  * andythenorth -> honest toil
07:55:38  <andythenorth> bye
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07:55:42  <Alberth> bye
07:58:40  * NGC3982 notices his laptop screen starts flickering at 90 degrees centigrade.
07:58:44  <dihedral> greetings
07:59:06  <dihedral> NGC3982, take it out of the oven once it gets a golden crisp
08:00:10  <lugo> , ah andy is gone already i'd had request for a new cargo: ships
08:00:41  <NGC3982> dihedral: it's an old toshiba satellite ive been using for work for five years now
08:01:03  <NGC3982> it's holding 80-113C regularly, and havent had any real problems until now.
08:01:28  <NGC3982> time to put the old horse on the shelf..
08:04:58  <V453000> :DDD lugo
08:05:18  <peter1138> lugo, what the hell?
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08:05:33  <NGC3982> sweet jesus
08:05:38  <NGC3982> photoshopped?
08:06:59  <peter1138> I don't think so.
08:11:01  <__ln__> enhanced using adobe® photoshop® software?
08:11:17  <peter1138> Oh you!
08:11:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i can tell by the pixels!
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08:13:29  <lugo>
08:13:30  <NGC3982> after a few months of intense star trek plowing, i fail to read "enhance" without parapraxing' it to "engage".
08:23:49  <dihedral> NGC3982, so you actually mean the screen flickers when the CPU reaches 90 degrees? :P
08:23:58  <dihedral> or do you read GPU temperatures too?
08:24:19  <dihedral> you could open up the laptop and remove all the dust from the fans and coolers, that usually helps
08:24:29  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: ever tried cleaning?
08:24:30  <NGC3982> dihedral: im unabled to read the gpu sensor, for some reason.
08:25:05  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: it's not a dirt issue. the thermal compound has literally boiled away trough the years, and no fans work.
08:25:05  <Eddi|zuHause> no computer should ever reach 90°C
08:25:33  <NGC3982> that said, im going to use it until it dies (since it's mostly used as spare computing for some not-so-relevant statistics).
08:26:01  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, CPU's often used to reach 90 degrees C
08:26:08  <NGC3982> it's an old dual-core
08:26:20  <dihedral> oh - not THAT old then :-P
08:26:29  <NGC3982> as i said, five years.
08:26:54  <NGC3982> and probably four years accumulated uptime
08:27:21  <NGC3982> im actually a bit suprised on how well it has worked.
08:27:24  <V453000> my chipset on my asus used to have 120 degrees C :D
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08:27:25  <NGC3982> giving no cooling is present
08:27:42  <NGC3982> V453000: if i recall, speedfan gave me a top temp of 113C.
08:27:47  <V453000> nice
08:28:08  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what you are proud of...
08:28:12  <NGC3982> although, i don't think you could sigma-5 that result, if you catch my drift.
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08:29:08  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: that it still works, even with the temperature, and the fact that i dropped it like twenty times or something.
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08:30:03  <V453000> lo
08:30:03  <V453000> l
08:44:46  <NGC3982> guys
08:44:55  <NGC3982> i think i have a serious problem with openttd right now
08:45:21  <NGC3982> ive been having these urges to play at work, at home, while away.
08:45:41  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
08:45:54  <NGC3982> im having a hard time letting go of it
08:46:04  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
08:46:24  <NGC3982> it's very bothering, and it creates frustration.
08:47:07  <Eddi|zuHause> don't fight it, embrace it :)
08:49:19  <NGC3982> well, i am. the problem is that it's affecting everything else.
08:49:35  <NGC3982> i fail miserably at work, and that wont work as an employer.
08:49:45  <NGC3982> at work/wont work/
08:51:01  * NGC3982 uninstalls openttd from his work computers.
08:52:15  <lugo> that sounds like a wise decision, but don't do browser games now :p
08:53:07  <peter1138> Like, say, Minecraft...
08:54:04  <NGC3982> lugo: i find most modern games uninteresting.
08:54:16  <NGC3982> openttd is something special, indeed.
08:54:17  <lugo>
08:54:33  <NGC3982> what the
08:54:34  <NGC3982> :D
08:54:40  <lugo> with zombies lol
08:54:48  <__ln__> or like, say,
08:54:56  <NGC3982> that looks fantastic.
08:54:59  <dihedral> I think there needs to be an extra statement in the readme: OpenTTD can be addicting
08:55:20  <dihedral> __ln__, that always kills my browser :-P
08:55:42  * NGC3982 notices that doesnt work on his phone browser.
08:56:01  <NGC3982> i guess that's a stand-alone singleplayer ttd-deluxe client?
08:56:19  <NGC3982> if it was openttd-ish, it would be neat to control (or monitor) servers
08:56:25  <__ln__> it is openttd
08:56:28  <NGC3982> :-O
08:57:01  <NGC3982> not going to open, not going to open, not going to open..
08:57:21  <NGC3982> by the way
08:57:31  <peter1138> It's okay, it's too slow to be playable.
08:57:49  <NGC3982> can i restart a server with a new size (and generated landscape) with rcon only?
08:59:41  <planetmaker> yes
08:59:55  <NGC3982> where can i find documentation about it? the wiki doesnt seem to have anything on it.
08:59:55  <planetmaker> but tedious
09:00:14  <planetmaker> iirc you can set the newgame variables explicitly
09:00:21  <planetmaker> just the normal rcon documentation
09:00:25  <NGC3982> oh?
09:00:37  <planetmaker> I might be wrong, though. Too tedious :-)
09:01:01  <planetmaker> and you have the admin interface (port 3977) to actually do that "better"
09:02:24  * NGC3982 looks into it.
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09:14:50  * NGC3982 re-installs openttd.. :(
09:15:55  <Alberth> better just think to work hard so you can play it later at home
09:18:16  <NGC3982> the thing is, i have been working around the clock for the last three years
09:18:27  <NGC3982> openttd helped me 'de-stress' alot
09:18:33  <NGC3982> but now it's almost the other way around.
09:18:34  <NGC3982> :)
09:21:35  <Alberth> stupid HG question. I have some uncommitted changes in my current revision. Someone else has added one new revision which I pulled. Now how do I update to tip again without discarding my changes?
09:21:59  <peter1138> commit
09:22:03  <Alberth> obviously I can commit and then merge, or diff the changes to a file, revert, update, and apply the file
09:22:16  <peter1138> i never figured it out
09:22:18  <peter1138> and thus i don't use hg
09:24:35  <peter1138> i think it's just not designed to let you do that
09:24:46  <Alberth> seems that way :(
09:24:52  <peter1138>
09:27:11  <Alberth> too complicated :p
09:27:19  <peter1138> indeed
09:27:50  <Alberth> so how do you manage the weird flags and settings of git?
09:27:57  <Alberth> or are they natural to you?
09:32:52  <Alberth> the 'official' explanation:
09:32:58  <peter1138> who said i use git? :-)
09:33:12  <Alberth> ie too complicated to do
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10:06:22  <planetmaker> Alberth: can't you simply run "hg up"?
10:07:53  <planetmaker> if you have already divergent commits: the recommended way according to #mercurial is a merge. Alternatives are to commit and then hg qimport as much so that you don't have several heads
10:07:58  <Alberth> nope, but the picture was more complicated than I thought, I had a local commit as well
10:08:00  <planetmaker> or alternatively pull and rebase
10:08:24  <planetmaker> (though rebase is mostly a short for the qimport way)
10:08:49  <planetmaker> that's what I assumed, Alberth :-) As hg just updates fine with only uncommited stuff ;-)
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10:30:54  <Alberth> planetmaker: any idea what goes wrong here?
10:31:37  <Alberth> ie the nml error is old, it belongs to the previous version of the template file
10:32:25  <planetmaker> hm?
10:32:46  <planetmaker> isn't it simply missing a template definition?
10:32:49  <Alberth> I'd expect the deps to get rebuild, but it breaks
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10:32:55  <planetmaker> tmpl_32bpp_zoom_additional_rough
10:33:01  <planetmaker> defined anywhere?
10:33:30  <planetmaker> hm... ho... I might have missed that in the template only paste I posted
10:34:01  <Alberth> it was a missing template definition, I fixed that already, the error is old, the .pnml template file has changed
10:34:25  <Alberth> but the system doesn't generate a new nml file
10:34:36  <planetmaker> ah. Yes. It's a bit broken... :S
10:34:45  <planetmaker> touch sprites/ogfx*pnml
10:34:56  <Alberth> ugh :(
10:34:57  <planetmaker> it's a makefile failure
10:35:04  <planetmaker> not of yours
10:36:20  <Alberth> ok, that is a work around
10:37:25  <planetmaker> alternatively try "make remake"
10:37:41  <Alberth> but it makes you wonder how to do dependency generation in a makefile :)
10:38:19  <planetmaker> it's a bit tricky... ;-)
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10:42:26  <Arafangion> Tricky because that's *recursive* make there, unless I'm badly mistaken.
10:43:24  <planetmaker> yes-ish
10:43:55  <Alberth> mostly because you need dependencies to decide whether you need to update dependencies
10:44:18  <Alberth> which gives unpleasant effects when you delete files
10:46:06  <planetmaker> and that's where we are...
10:46:07  <Alberth> but I am not doing that
10:46:28  <planetmaker> Alberth: I shall try to put the re-write into use on zbasebuild
10:46:37  <planetmaker> it *should* behave better
10:46:59  <planetmaker> but I haven't put it to much use except in DutchTrains(?) from foobar and on iirc fish
10:47:12  <planetmaker> but I might get around to that only tomorrow
10:47:13  <Alberth> perhaps we should do what openttd does, namely generate deps in a separate program
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10:49:35  <planetmaker> well. maybe... but run time is an issue, too
10:49:46  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker still has the scariest avatar...
10:50:01  <planetmaker> :D
10:50:24  <planetmaker> and for once it's not even a ripped image from *somewhere* ;-)
10:50:25  <NGC3982> hmz.
10:52:29  <NGC3982> can town density be altered via newgrf?
10:52:59  <NGC3982> (where town density is the maximum of usable passengers per tile)
10:53:04  <NGC3982> is such a number exist, that is.
10:53:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's defined per house
10:54:59  <Eddi|zuHause>
10:59:53  <peter1138> rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (6769 bytes received so far) [sender]
10:59:53  <peter1138> rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(601) [sender=3.0.7]
10:59:54  <peter1138> fun :S
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11:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it's a MITM attack!!
11:18:47  *** M1zera [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:19:48  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: it's a local sync, no network involved...
11:27:16  <Alberth> yeah, a Man In The Machine attack
11:28:37  <peter1138> :-)
11:28:48  <NGC3982> heh, that's my nickname at work.
11:35:22  <__ln__> what was the law like about taking photos in public places in France?
11:36:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure it is more lenient than the former east german law :p
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11:38:34  <__ln__> what was that like? :p
11:39:58  <Alberth> planetmaker: zbasebuild should perhaps also use a different name than opengfx in its binary?
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11:41:52  <LordAro> peter1138: how do you manage to break your software so much/often? ;)
11:42:56  <planetmaker> Alberth: yes, possibly. Whatabout "zBase" :-P. At least the announced name. And actually also grfID. Hm
11:43:02  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: basically it was forbidden as a foreigner to photograph things like railways. you could get arrested, and in the least serious case your film was taken away
11:43:27  <planetmaker> though I don't really mind passing it off as OpenGFX, tbh
11:44:35  <planetmaker> but indeed, Alberth, it's a problem to "just build as-is". It'll get a lower revision than opengfx, thus current opengfx will seem newer to openttd than zbasebuild
11:44:47  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: call it OpenGFX32?
11:44:51  <planetmaker> (which is a backdraw of the symlinks as opposed to real clone)
11:44:57  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: sounds like modern-day USA...
11:45:18  <Alberth> I was mostly thinking of name and error report confusion
11:45:25  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: thought about that. Might be good. But... It's also 8bpp OpenGFX. Thus...
11:45:55  <planetmaker> Alberth: yes. Iff we publish it as OpenGFX - then it will be OpenGFX. There's little way back
11:46:03  <planetmaker> tbh, I'd not mind going that way
11:46:22  <planetmaker> I'm only a bit hesitant because of Zephyris' reply as 'test ground'
11:46:42  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: an AMD x64 also contains a 32bit mode...
11:47:12  <planetmaker> on the other hand... would it hurt, to have "experimental" 32bpp in OpenGFX?
11:49:26  <peter1138> what's wrong with zBase?
11:49:32  <peter1138> it's not near finished yet is it?
11:49:48  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the meaning of "zbase"?
11:49:55  <planetmaker> it's not finished yet. And to build it you need all of OpenGFX anyway
11:50:14  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: no real meaning. Other than maybe Zephyris' base graphics ;-)
11:50:18  <peter1138> Zephyris BASEset
11:51:05  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'd still of the opinion that you should offer "pure" OpenGFX besides "OpenGFX32"
11:51:33  <peter1138> 32bpp sucks :p
11:51:40  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but it's (currently) a choice of the user to choose 8bpp or 32bpp
11:52:06  <peter1138> especially my bits of code
11:52:14  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, but is it also a choice of the user to download 8bpp or 32bpp?
11:52:41  <peter1138> did the special case for destroyed vehicles ever get added?
11:52:48  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: no(t yet). But that can (and shall) be implemented in bananas that it offers the full or the 8bpp-only download
11:52:51  <Alberth> planetmaker: naming it opengfx makes it 'official', perhaps more than wanted at this stage
11:52:55  <planetmaker> md5sums don't differ
11:54:54  <peter1138> it's probably up to zephyris to decide when he's ready...
11:55:04  <Alberth> "zbase" seems a safer alternative for now, to me
11:55:08  <peter1138> yeah
11:56:13  <planetmaker> ok. I'll try to commit the changes. Maybe today, possibly I find time only tomorrow
11:57:06  <Alberth> np, the worst that can happen is a more complete 32bpp base set :)
11:57:22  <planetmaker> yup :-) you do great work there, imho
11:57:27  <planetmaker> as does zephyris
11:58:05  <planetmaker> hm.. Alberth, but should I merge opengfx in order to build it via CF? It's a one-time big commit. But doesn't hurt much really
11:58:21  <planetmaker> hm... and zbase itself? as well?
11:58:26  <planetmaker> would seem proper, I'd recon
11:59:25  <Alberth> (14:19:19) planetmaker: hm... and zbase itself? as well? <--  I don't understand this
12:00:06  <planetmaker> Alberth: hg pull -f path/to/zbase && hg pull -f path/to/opengfx
12:00:38  <planetmaker> replacing the symlinks by the actual repo contents
12:00:41  <Alberth> oh, you mean merge both repos into zbasebuild?
12:00:51  <planetmaker> yup
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12:02:22  <planetmaker> I still like this light main repo really...
12:02:46  <Alberth> the other option is to merge opengfx into zbase, and copy the zbasebuild scripts over (with or without merge, I don't care much)
12:02:48  <planetmaker> maybe making it official sub repos for now. I'll look into that
12:03:01  <Alberth> hg archive may be useful
12:03:08  <planetmaker> how?
12:03:37  <Alberth> ie 'create an unversioned archive of a repository revision'    as part of the zbasebuild build
12:04:01  <planetmaker> I know what it does... but what do you want to do with the archive?
12:04:41  <planetmaker> (when the CF builds the source bundles it uses hg archive to some degree)
12:04:51  <Alberth> hg archive http://localhost/opengfx ; hg archive http://localhost/zbase ; make
12:05:32  <Alberth> if you don't want to merge
12:05:50  <planetmaker> the cleaner solution is using sub repos
12:05:59  <planetmaker> as there the actual revision is stored
12:09:01  <planetmaker> maybe I can convince hg to find the sub repos alongside zbasebuild
12:17:59  <planetmaker> sub repos. They allow relative paths like ../opengfx or ../zbase
12:18:11  <planetmaker> On the cost of that it might fail to clone in the presence of missing write permissions
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12:21:41  <Alberth> ../ is not really needed
12:23:04  <planetmaker> Alberth: not needed... but then it'd create new clones of those repos
12:24:08  <Alberth> doesn't that happen anyway?
12:24:34  <planetmaker> Alberth: with the sub-repos being the repos as they're now: no
12:25:02  <planetmaker> currently it's symlinks which hg doesn't know about. The idea with the relative paths of the sub repos is to tell hg about those
12:25:20  <planetmaker> without changing anything else except the sub repo knowledge in zbasebuild
12:26:15  <Alberth> if that works, without pulling a new clone, then moving the current repos to a new position in zbasebuild and then adding as subrepo should also work, right?
12:26:59  <Alberth> the latter does mean either all symlinks move, or all zbase paths change
12:27:43  <planetmaker> using sub repos might mean that all zbase and opengfx paths change.... maybe.
12:27:48  <planetmaker> I'll give it a play-around
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12:48:30  <Alberth> bbl
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12:49:38  <Belugas> hello
12:55:46  <Eddi|zuHause> finally a sensible reaction: "USA forbid batman costumes in cinemas"
12:58:40  <NGC3982> that sounds like a sensational interpretation of "covered faces is prohibited".
13:02:01  *** Belugas [~belugas@] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces]
13:06:46  <Warod> now everyone should just get a headband with batman ears. :>
13:07:02  <Warod> So the bottom of the screen would be like ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ for everyone behind. ;)
13:07:13  <NGC3982> \o/
13:07:39  <__ln__> \^o^/
13:08:49  <NGC3982> ah, i love this
13:09:13  <NGC3982> there is surely evidence of natural chaotisism in openttd
13:09:27  <NGC3982> changing a tiny parameter gets absurd implikations
13:09:35  <NGC3982> -gets + gives
13:09:37  <planetmaker> tiny like acceleration model?
13:10:27  <NGC3982> exactly
13:10:38  <NGC3982> or correcting a turn
13:14:47  <Eddi|zuHause> "the buttertrain effect"?
13:15:00  <NGC3982> :D
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13:18:43  <planetmaker> *flap flap*
13:20:47  * NGC3982 notes how hawaii disapears.
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13:32:04  * Belugas does so much not feel like working...
13:32:15  <Eddi|zuHause> a laptop with a battery uptime of 1h is... unwieldy...
13:32:42  <Belugas> mine has problems giving me only 20 minutes...
13:33:43  <TWerkhoven> i've got one that shows 100% for 10, then shuts down cus of low battery
13:34:19  <TWerkhoven> well, it did untill it went bust
13:41:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling the laptop is way faster after deactivating the windows swapfile
13:43:07  <NGC3982> the asus 39jc extends 10 hours with linux
13:43:15  <NGC3982> u36jc*
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14:49:36  <NGC3982> my god, im in bsd enviroment for the first time
14:53:42  <andythenorth> make sure you know your safe word
14:54:21  <NGC3982> i fail to find information on how i start a server with a loaded grf in bsd
15:02:44  <NGC3982> bah, i need help.
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15:02:58  <NGC3982> im having ssh access to this bsd openttd-server
15:03:06  <NGC3982> and im trying to start it with a certain grf setup
15:03:26  <NGC3982> as far as the intarwebz tell me, im simply supposed to put the grf files in /openttd/data
15:03:34  <NGC3982> but that catalogue doesnt exist, as far as i can see.
15:04:56  <andythenorth> mkdir ?
15:05:05  <NGC3982> i cant even find /openttd/
15:05:14  <NGC3982> the only referenses i find is for linux
15:05:15  <NGC3982> and not bsd
15:05:20  <NGC3982> so im a bit ..puzzled.
15:05:30  <andythenorth> see if it has a locate db that is up to date...
15:05:33  <Rubidium> even then, /openttd is more likely wrong
15:05:34  <andythenorth> to test this try
15:05:38  <andythenorth> locate openttd
15:05:54  <Rubidium> NGC3982: what does the readme say?
15:05:54  <NGC3982> i have .openttd
15:05:59  <NGC3982> Rubidium: i cant find one.
15:06:37  <andythenorth> biab
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15:24:19  <NGC3982> this is un-intuitive.
15:24:30  <NGC3982> crap operating system with crap controls and crap stuff.
15:24:31  <NGC3982> and stuff.
15:24:42  <NGC3982> and no bloody documentation
15:30:59  <Warod> hahaha
15:31:04  <Warod> BSD?
15:31:06  <Warod> or something else?
15:31:20  <telanus2> maybe windows?
15:31:23  *** telanus2 is now known as telanus
15:31:51  <Warod> windows is a crap operating system with quite crap controls but with less crap documentation. :P
15:36:39  <telanus> anyone know why this is happening:
15:36:51  <telanus> only have CETS active
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15:41:10  <planetmaker> and the issue is?
15:41:59  <planetmaker> I see a steam train driving and all in good order
15:42:35  <planetmaker> ^ telanus
15:43:00  <telanus> shouldn't have graphics?
15:43:09  <planetmaker> nope
15:43:16  <planetmaker> it's not yet released, is it?
15:43:20  <telanus> a green box looks a bit unrealistic
15:43:37  <telanus> don't know
15:43:47  <planetmaker> I know that it's not ;-)
15:44:16  <planetmaker> builds of test versions are freely available. But ... what you show is quite normal there
15:44:48  <planetmaker> it allows coding the stuff without actual graphics
15:45:15  <telanus> ahh
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15:46:46  <planetmaker> btw, it's not like the train has _no_ graphics. It just has a bit box-like ones
15:46:52  <planetmaker> ;-)
15:48:34  <Belugas> mmh.. when the ads on tt-forums are more interesting than the actual forums, it might be a problem...
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15:52:21  <planetmaker> lol, Belugas :-)
15:55:20  <Belugas> ;)
15:55:53  <Belugas> i have to admit, though, a new guitar is more interesting to me, no matter the realism of the subject
15:55:56  <Belugas> buwhahaha!!!
15:58:12  <planetmaker> you should look at it realisically ;-)
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16:47:02  * LordAro waves at Alberth
16:47:11  <LordAro> and frosch123
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16:47:49  <Alberth> hi LordAro
16:48:24  <LordAro> hmmm, why TruBrain, Rubdium or frosch not get (automatic) OP/voice in channel?
16:49:30  <planetmaker> a case of "not care" or "not want" supposedly
16:52:07  <Belugas> add a feature request!
16:52:24  <Belugas> i should indeed, planetmaker :)
16:52:54  * andythenorth feature requests a new brain
16:52:59  <andythenorth> one that is more true
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16:58:28  <DorpsGek> lordaro: they are hiding; all complains and issues go to me
16:59:18  <DorpsGek> i get many personal support requests via pm
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17:05:01  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: is that an insult? :D
17:05:12  <andythenorth> not intentionally
17:05:17  <andythenorth> :)
17:05:18  <TrueBrain> ;)
17:05:36  <andythenorth> I am not entirely in my right head at the moment
17:05:45  <TrueBrain> who's are you in?
17:05:52  <andythenorth> I have not slept properly for 7 days
17:05:56  <TrueBrain> ugh
17:06:01  <TrueBrain> your tiny ones sick again?
17:06:02  <andythenorth> I have two sick kids and have caught their disease
17:06:14  <TrueBrain> best of luck with that :(
17:06:19  <andythenorth> ach
17:06:20  <andythenorth> it's fine
17:06:25  <andythenorth> I'm just a bit
17:06:28  <andythenorth> ...somewhere else
17:06:33  <andythenorth> turns out I can still write code :P
17:06:35  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@] has joined #openttd
17:06:37  <TrueBrain> kewl :D
17:06:55  <Wolf01> kewlo :D
17:11:06  <andythenorth> I often look at my code and think someone else wrote it anyway
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17:14:00  <NGC3982> here comes a bit of a paste:
17:14:02  <NGC3982> [newgrf]
17:14:02  <NGC3982> ~/.openttd/data/pb_ukrs.grf
17:14:02  <NGC3982> ~/.openttd/data/ukrsap1w.grf
17:14:21  <NGC3982> this is added to the openttd.cfg in root, on this bsd server.
17:14:48  <NGC3982> i have verified the path name
17:15:01  <NGC3982> and yet, im unabled to start a game with the grfs
17:15:08  <NGC3982> and im starting to feel a bit clueless.
17:15:35  <Alberth> "unable to start"? in what way?
17:16:02  <NGC3982> when starting a dedicated game, it responds to all the other changes in the cfg, but it simply doesnt add and run the grf's.
17:16:26  <frosch123> NGC3982: drop the "~/.openttd/data/" part
17:16:43  <frosch123> and add a " =" at the end
17:16:47  <Alberth> good point
17:16:53  <NGC3982> oh, the =
17:16:55  <NGC3982> right, sorry.
17:16:56  <NGC3982> bah.
17:17:43  <NGC3982> oh, it ..uhm, works without the = now.
17:17:44  <NGC3982> :E
17:18:34  <frosch123> you're lucky then :)
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17:32:46  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24433 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt korean.txt):
17:32:46  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:32:46  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: belarusian - 9 changes by KorneySan
17:32:46  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: korean - 21 changes by telk5093
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18:02:04  <andythenorth> you know how I hardly ever make feature requests?
18:02:07  *** Sleepie [] has joined #openttd
18:02:17  <Sleepie> hi
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18:03:14  <andythenorth> well I have a feature request
18:03:16  <FLHerne> andythenorth: What's the feature request then? :P
18:03:18  <andythenorth> flat docks
18:03:25  <FLHerne> For canals?
18:03:29  <FLHerne> +1
18:03:35  <andythenorth> for wherever
18:04:32  <andythenorth> I know that one day, if we're all really good, and eat our greens, and send santa a nice letter, a viable newports spec might emerge, then somebody might make a patch, and it might be accepted to trunk, and then we might be able to extend that to docks properly, and everything will then be great
18:04:32  <FLHerne> Well, you won't find many flat areas next to the sea :P
18:04:48  <andythenorth> but don't you ever want to just frivolously incur some technical debt?
18:05:33  <andythenorth> it's not like it actually costs us money to fix it :P
18:07:00  * andythenorth just wants to be able to build sea level docks using the canals->dynamite trick
18:07:12  <andythenorth> can't justify it, just think it's fun :P
18:07:49  <andythenorth> ho
18:08:03  <andythenorth> that would allow similar to 'bouys have stations' as in ttdp
18:08:05  <FLHerne> I do find the 'wait for the universal-every-possible-related-feature patch' attitude annoying sometimes :-(
18:08:18  <andythenorth> build a 1 tile dock on water, with water tile as ground sprite
18:08:50  <FLHerne> Especially for airport closing/overbuild, which already exists as a stableish patch :P
18:09:54  <andythenorth> stableish?
18:10:08  <andythenorth> probably ready for trunk if it's stableish :P
18:10:26  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: would you favour 1 tile flat docks, or 2 tile (with orientations)
18:10:36  <andythenorth> assuming we play a theoretical game here :P
18:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause> multi-tile docks... :)
18:11:10  <Eddi|zuHause> (with one ship per loading bay, similar to airports)
18:11:20  <andythenorth> sounds like newports :P
18:11:28  <andythenorth> what about a hack version?
18:11:52  <Eddi|zuHause> don't do hacks.
18:12:10  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Like normal docks, but allow the land side to be built on a flat tile
18:12:27  <Supercheese> "FISH Revision 790:da1106bcaa94: Change: autorefit more or less works now"
18:12:31  <Supercheese> Yay!
18:12:59  <Supercheese> Now to wait for a semi-stable nightly
18:13:01  <andythenorth> take note of the 'less'
18:13:05  <andythenorth> it's all about to change anyway
18:13:12  <Supercheese> Hence the waiting :P
18:13:12  <andythenorth> I'm redesigning the set ;)
18:13:30  <Alberth> going for SHARK :)
18:13:33  <Supercheese> rofl
18:14:03  <__ln__> good @810 everyone!
18:14:17  <Sleepie> Alberth: but it then needs a sequel ATTACK ;)
18:14:53  <andythenorth> reverse acronym SHARK?
18:14:53  <Alberth> not all sharks eat flesh
18:15:11  <andythenorth> also I want ottd - toddler edition
18:15:20  <Eddi|zuHause> are there shark vultures? :)
18:15:31  <andythenorth> the n-s / e-w building tools are removed, and replace by one tool that builds loops, complete with depot
18:15:42  <andythenorth> this would make my life easier
18:15:56  <andythenorth> especially as I have to build the damn things one handed
18:16:01  <andythenorth> not easy on a trackpad :P
18:16:20  <Supercheese> script it, then
18:16:35  <Supercheese> few lines of autohotkey or whatnot ;)
18:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause> make a gamescript that reads your sign locations and builds the routes, then you only need to place signs
18:17:13  <andythenorth> nice idea
18:17:46  <andythenorth> meanwhile....FISH :P
18:17:53  <Alberth> andythenorth:   size seems fine :)
18:17:55  <Sleepie> can you coop with a gamescript?
18:18:46  <Alberth> fighting a gamescript is a lot harder, as it has more powers than you
18:19:22  * andythenorth needs to 1.0 more newgrfs :P
18:19:33  <andythenorth> then I can invent reverse acronyms for GS
18:19:47  <andythenorth> seems all the action is there these days
18:19:51  <andythenorth> newgrf is so....over :P
18:20:09  <Alberth> but you can program anything in a gamescript, I see no reason why you could not program something co-op-ish
18:20:14  <Sleepie> I haven't tried playing with a gamescript yet nor with one of the new AIs, but both look very interesting
18:20:25  <andythenorth> "I would advise anyone who is serious about their career these days to learn GS.  Newgrf is yesterday's technology"
18:20:43  <andythenorth> "Recruiters will find you more attractive if you have GS on your CV, compared to newgrf"
18:21:04  * andythenorth might be short of sleep
18:21:09  * andythenorth goes off to troll lego forums
18:21:21  <Alberth> and if you name it "Squirrel" some may recognize it even :)
18:21:26  <Sleepie> andythenorth: which one? eurobricks?
18:21:47  <andythenorth> yup
18:22:20  <Sleepie> well I'm more or less just lurking there lately to less time
18:22:27  <Hirundo> bbl
18:23:19  <Sleepie> I also build not much in the last month just bought some sets for parts on sale
18:23:24  <andythenorth> I like lego a lot.  I don't always like AFOLs
18:23:39  <Sleepie> me too
18:24:13  <Sleepie> yeah some of them sometimes really spoil the fun
18:24:34  <Sleepie> but who cares I just ignore those
18:24:40  <andythenorth> they are silly strange paranoid obsessives
18:24:52  <andythenorth> actually, so am I :P
18:24:53  <FLHerne> andythenorth: SHips And maRine Kraft?
18:25:03  <andythenorth> try harder
18:25:16  <FLHerne> True. Misspelling doesn't count :P
18:25:32  <andythenorth> Ships Are Really Killing Stuff
18:25:51  <FLHerne> :-)
18:26:22  <andythenorth> Shark Adds Riverine Kudos
18:26:42  <andythenorth> Shark Applies Regatta Kings
18:26:53  * andythenorth sticks with FISH
18:28:01  <andythenorth> gah
18:28:14  <andythenorth> now I have to rewrite my build script to handle tankers :|
18:28:28  <andythenorth> whose idea was that? :/
18:28:42  <Sleepie> yours, wasn't it?
18:28:51  <Sleepie> :P
18:31:01  <andythenorth> I have four properties for capacity: pax, mail, freight, liquid
18:31:07  <andythenorth> I use these to figure out classes
18:31:29  <andythenorth> using an if/else block that was ugly when there were three capacity props
18:31:42  <andythenorth> now it will be super-ugly
18:31:46  <andythenorth> what's a better way?
18:32:06  <andythenorth>
18:32:40  <andythenorth> ho
18:32:48  * andythenorth thinks of at least two silly ways to do it :o
18:32:54  <andythenorth> which are more elegant
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18:33:23  <Alberth> 4-tuple with conditions on each property
18:33:25  <Supercheese> bitmask the properties?
18:33:40  <Supercheese> or whatever equivalent
18:34:32  <andythenorth> if prop > 0, push to list, then  '_'.join() on the list to get the class group name
18:34:56  <andythenorth> Alberth: ^ my idea is effectively same as what you said?
18:35:16  <Alberth> somewhat, I can code a "dont-care" condition
18:37:52  <andythenorth> how do I implement yours?
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18:40:05  <Alberth>
18:40:40  <Alberth> oh, vals and conds should be swapped I see
18:41:18  * andythenorth will never be a proper programmer :P
18:41:27  <andythenorth> I just never see these patterns
18:41:55  <andythenorth> are there any climates / industry sets with no liquid cargos
18:42:06  <andythenorth> [would make tanker default cargo problematic]
18:46:31  <Sleepie> hmm I dunno if possible, but can you query if liquid cargos are available? if then you can disable tankers when necessary.
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18:52:12  <NGC3982> hmz
18:52:23  <NGC3982> how do i change the value of train reversing in the console?
18:53:46  <andythenorth> I can't think of any good case for a freight ship that can't also carry liquid
18:54:09  <frosch123> vehicles disable themself if they are refittable to nothing, while they are supposed to be refittable
18:54:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you can change difficulty settings from the console
18:54:20  <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks
18:54:40  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: so i cant change difficulty options in a started network game?
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19:45:04  <LordAro> desktop environment keeps breaking -.-
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19:52:35  <FLHerne> LordAro: Which one? :P
19:52:49  <LordAro> xfce
19:52:57  <LordAro> seems to be something like this:
19:53:04  <FLHerne> Ah. Not tried that one :P
19:54:48  * LordAro doesn't touch Gnome  3 with bargepole :P
19:54:54  <Terkhen> good night
19:55:18  <FLHerne> Me neither. Awful mess. KDE4 has finally got stableish, though :-)
19:56:04  <FLHerne> Terkhen: 'night
20:05:03  <Wolf01> LordAro, I use it too, it broke seriously a couple of times, but I always managed to get it working again ;)
20:05:51  <LordAro> my (limited) understanding of the current problem is that it's deeper than the desktop environment, it's a problem with X itself :(
20:07:24  <LordAro> symptoms: the screen freezes when running fullscreen games, such as wine programs, assaultcube and others
20:07:29  <Wolf01> I found it once running without window frames (ever message popups were fullscreen or impossible to move) and I have always problems with firefox
20:07:53  <Wolf01> I can't play on that pc, so I didn't care :P
20:08:12  <Wolf01> it's an old y2k laptop
20:08:31  <LordAro> i can restart X (ctrl+alt+backspace) but it's still not right, e.g. minecraft and others will not start correctly, only black screening and using 100% cpu
20:08:47  <Wolf01> which video card?
20:08:49  <LordAro> the problem cmpletely fixes itself on reboot, but...
20:09:05  <LordAro> ATI HD Radeon 6570
20:09:50  <Wolf01> ati 6xyz too here, and same symptom with minecraft, I never managed to get it running
20:12:02  <LordAro> :(
20:12:57  <LordAro> idk, i think i'll ask on the forums
20:13:12  <LordAro> (linux mint forums, tt-forums isn't so great at tech support :) )
20:13:21  <LordAro> not bad though :L
20:14:53  <FLHerne> Interesting. Minecraft and AssaultCube blackscreen and freeze here when I try to fullscreen them, but switching virtual terminals and back again fixes it for some reason :P
20:32:17  <frosch123> night
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20:36:34  <LordAro> well, either way, an update pack is expected in the next couple of weks, i'll complain then
20:52:34  <andythenorth> bye
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21:05:09  <FLHerne> LordAro: Mint 13 XFCE is now out :D
21:05:24  <FLHerne> Along with the KDE version, which is even better :P
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21:10:41  <Supercheese> Lots of folks here use GIMP, yes? Is there a way to use the new Single Window mode while still keeping the legacy saving method, rather than the new Export method? Or am I stuck with the new way?
21:11:18  <Supercheese> Currently I'm using 2.6, but I'd like to update to 2.8
21:12:37  <Supercheese> having to manually export things to PNG rather than ctrl+s is a major pain
21:13:45  <NGC3982> how do i hinder reliability lowerage?
21:14:45  <LordAro> FLHerne: Linux Mint Debian Edition FTW :L
21:15:41  <NGC3982> i cant seem to get the trains to ignore the reliability percentage.
21:18:26  <FLHerne> LordAro: Considered that. Possibility if normal Mint doesn't suit.
21:18:27  <NGC3982> for crap sake
21:18:36  <NGC3982> how can i un-send groups to a depot?
21:18:40  * NGC3982 gets bancrupt.
21:19:15  <Eddi|zuHause> hit pause and select each train individually
21:19:43  <NGC3982> oh god,
21:20:05  <NGC3982> that means i made a fataly illed click on the wrong button.
21:20:05  <NGC3982> :P
21:20:18  <Supercheese> Can't you just tell the group to all go to depot again, which will cancel the depot order?
21:20:26  <Supercheese> or does that not work?
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21:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> it might be useful to put "cancel depot order" into the manage list dropdown
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22:35:31  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:26:13  <Sleepie> Hmm self transporting oil ;) ->
23:27:53  <Supercheese> Yep, very nice implementation of pipelines
23:28:54  <Supercheese> Now to edit the DWE grf to make those pipeline-stations traversable by the new pipe-engines ;)
23:29:26  <Sleepie> yep that would be cool
23:29:59  <Supercheese> changing a few lines of hex here and there
23:30:05  <Supercheese> just gotta find where they are :P
23:30:32  <Sleepie> with this you finally transport oil from oil wells to refinery with a pipeline only
23:30:41  * Supercheese doesn't want to bother with decompiling and recompiling via grfcodec
23:31:09  * Sleepie first needs to learn grf coding at all
23:35:14  <Supercheese> Now, if I could decompile to NML instead of NFO, then of course I'd do that
23:35:23  <Supercheese> but NFO is bleh to try and read
23:35:36  <Supercheese> unless the author commented the &$%! out of it
23:37:00  <Sleepie> I dunno if thats even possible (decompiling to nml)
23:37:48  <Sleepie> but I think NML makes it easier to dive slowly into NFO
23:39:00  * Sleepie plans to play or most-likely mess around a bit with NML in the near future
23:39:30  * Supercheese finds the spots to hex edit
23:40:44  <Sleepie> then just do it :P
23:42:08  * Supercheese crosses his fingers and hopes his edits work
23:42:36  <Sleepie> The red box will tell you :P
23:43:17  <Supercheese> d'oh, the pipes don't line up
23:43:27  <Supercheese> forgot to check that ahead of time
23:43:44  <Supercheese> the edit did work though
23:43:56  <Supercheese> pipe arrows slide into the DWE pipe station
23:43:57  <Sleepie> screenshot?
23:44:35  <Supercheese> grabbing
23:45:59  <Supercheese>
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23:46:14  <Supercheese> alignment off, the arrows don't draw over the pipes
23:46:25  <Supercheese> but the pipe engines use the station
23:46:44  <Sleepie> yeah so it works
23:47:10  <Sleepie> it only needs to be fixed graphics
23:48:01  <Supercheese> mentioning that in thread now
23:48:37  <Sleepie> yep good idea
23:48:58  <Supercheese>
23:49:31  <Supercheese> lemme check license on DWE, see if I can send  you the edited .grf
23:50:57  <Supercheese> ah, it's GPL
23:52:57  <Sleepie> well than everything can be reused
23:53:02  <Supercheese> yep :D
23:54:19  <Supercheese> Hmm, how to fix sprite order issues... code the pipeline stations as groundtiles?
23:54:29  * Supercheese does not know how to do that, however
23:54:46  <Sleepie> me too
23:55:27  <Sleepie> from what I know stations are more difficult than other stuff
23:56:15  <Sleepie> ideally DWE will be enhanced with some adapters when LaDoncella pipe set has evolved
23:56:34  <Supercheese> Crap, NML doesn't support stations
23:56:45  <Sleepie> not yet
23:57:12  <Sleepie> because its more complex
23:57:58  <Sleepie> but I'm sure it will...
23:58:27  <Supercheese> yeah, DWE has cool pipehouses, flame exhausts, underpasses, splits, etc
23:58:46  <Supercheese> I guess you'd just need an adapter sprite that goes between the two pipe styles?
23:58:54  <Sleepie> true many fancy eyecandy
23:59:13  <Supercheese> the T-junction is especially neat
23:59:32  <Supercheese> 3 pipes fly over 3 pipes
23:59:44  <Supercheese> well, 2 fly over, 1 just Ts in directly
23:59:48  <Sleepie> I'm still try to catch up I'm back to TTD for about 3 weeks now

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