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00:33:25 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-010-141.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:38:41 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.69.202] has joined #openttd 00:39:27 <drac_boy> pretty quiet as always here 00:40:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:44:26 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.77.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:20:31 *** drush [~drush@93-94-245-16.dynamic.swissvpn.net] has joined #openttd 01:38:15 <drac_boy> hi drush 01:41:13 *** haole [~Webuser@201.52.180.109] has joined #openttd 01:41:39 <haole> hey there... i'm playing openttd with some friends in multiplayer, but we think that the game is really unbalanced regarding airplanes and passengers 01:41:56 <drush> hi drac_boy 01:41:57 <haole> can you recommend me a newgrf that addresses that 01:42:29 <drac_boy> haole I always use basecost and multiply the plane+airport costs period 01:42:39 <drac_boy> I never understood why its always been too low priced 01:42:46 <drac_boy> :-s 01:42:47 <drush> drac_boy we've got a working ps3 elf of another game and there are 2 steps stopping it from being executed on jailbroken retail units 01:43:06 <drac_boy> drush mm 01:43:07 <drush> that's a lot less steps than a few days ago :) 01:43:11 <drac_boy> heh 01:43:11 <haole> drac_boy gonna try it... is basecost a newgrf 01:43:24 <drac_boy> yeah...you have to set parameters for it tho 01:43:29 <drac_boy> its in the readme still 01:43:54 <haole> drac_boy can't find it from within the openttd's client 01:44:05 <haole> oh... "alternative base costs" 01:44:23 <drac_boy> its named basecost.grf ... thats all I can say :p 01:44:24 <drush> also 01:45:35 <drush> I doubt that I'd receive such a reception on freenode 01:46:22 <drush> goodnight everyone 01:46:28 *** drush is now known as drush|sleep 01:47:40 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.43.131.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:51:08 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-111-53.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:10:33 *** haole [~Webuser@201.52.180.109] has quit [Quit: Closed his browser] 02:27:43 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1242499104.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 02:41:56 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:48:11 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-9-128.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:51:10 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:e075:28da:3184:80] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:38:20 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 04:15:37 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.69.202] has joined #openttd 04:15:37 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.69.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:28 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:19:38 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 04:28:20 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:52:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6ACC1.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 04:57:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CE97.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:22:19 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 05:31:07 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66DCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:31:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4D78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:01:29 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:27:02 *** siridle [siridle@1407ds1-hb.1.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 06:36:39 <NGC3982> Morning 06:41:19 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 06:52:53 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-217-251.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:52:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 06:54:57 *** Priski [priski@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 06:55:56 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 06:58:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:58:53 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-143-130.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:20:34 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-056-152.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:20:55 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:31:49 *** telanus [~telanus@196-210-244-116.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 07:36:35 <Terkhen> good morning 07:38:04 <telanus> morning 07:38:28 <Zuu> morning 07:40:17 <Terkhen> hi telanus and Zuu 07:40:35 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:47:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:58:13 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:25:28 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 08:25:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:26:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 08:42:06 *** Magicbones [~smuxi@66-168-68-191.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com] has joined #openttd 08:44:17 *** FlyingFoX [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:44:32 *** peter1138 [~petern@217.64.121.241] has joined #openttd 08:44:35 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 08:51:15 <Magicbones> Question: Can I disable the autokick funtion to clients that take time to connect/download from a server? 08:51:38 <NGC3982> My solution to that is usually to increase the allowed join time. 08:51:46 <NGC3982> But that's not really a good answer to your question. 08:55:24 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:56:30 <Terkhen> magicbones: there is probably a setting to change the time before a client is kicked 08:57:33 <Magicbones> thanks 08:57:38 *** Magicbones [~smuxi@66-168-68-191.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com] has left #openttd [] 08:57:45 <NGC3982> max_join_time disconnects a joining (slow) client after 500 ticks. 08:57:51 <NGC3982> I think the max value is 2000. 08:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> there's different times for downloading and catching up after download, etc. 08:58:29 <NGC3982> What is a 'tick' anyway? I can't find references to it. 08:58:45 <Eddi|zuHause> a tick is 33ms 08:58:57 <Terkhen> I wonder why most people asking stuff leave the channel as soon as they can 08:59:24 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 08:59:38 <FLHerne> Terkhen: Because they want to try out what they just got told :P 08:59:38 <NGC3982> Sadly, that's IRC for you. 08:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: a "tick" is the ingame time unit. nothing can be faster than that 08:59:51 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: I see. 09:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: every tick, all vehicles are moved forward, cargos are created/removed/loaded/unloaded, etc. 09:01:14 <NGC3982> I think that explains why ive always thought OpenTTD should demand more computing that it actually does. 09:01:35 *** drush|sleep [~drush@93-94-245-16.dynamic.swissvpn.net] has quit [Quit: Wychodzi] 09:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: fast forward removes the 33ms delay, so it will go as fast as the CPU can go 09:01:58 <Terkhen> it is quite demanding already :P 09:02:22 <NGC3982> Terkhen: The usable information is -huge-? ;) 09:03:29 <NGC3982> In my book, that's kind of the whole thing about OpenTTD. 09:03:53 <planetmaker> moin 09:03:55 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-217-251.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:04:01 <NGC3982> The accumulated information creates a bigger sense of wonder than the actual graphics. 09:04:06 <NGC3982> Morning PM. 09:04:27 <Terkhen> I know, but that is what makes it demanding :P 09:04:33 <Terkhen> hi planetmaker 09:05:23 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Can ticks be altered for network games? 09:05:30 <Eddi|zuHause> no 09:05:45 <planetmaker> also not for SP games. Except in FF 09:05:56 <NGC3982> SP/FF? 09:06:06 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-217-251.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:06:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 09:06:07 <planetmaker> single player / fast forward 09:06:12 <NGC3982> Ah, i see. 09:07:01 <NGC3982> planetmaker: I have some news regarding our previous discussions. May i PM you? 09:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: also, an ingame day has 74 ticks 09:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause> which makes it around 2.5 seconds 09:08:06 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: I know there are patches that alter the length of ingame days. I guess they are based on changing the amount of ticks per day, and not changing the actuall tick time then? 09:10:07 <planetmaker> you guess right. and you guess wrong. Do you also guess that all apples are green? 09:10:36 * NGC3982 prepares a big speech on green apples and quantum probability 09:11:02 <planetmaker> "there's at least one apple in the universe of which one side is green" 09:14:23 <NGC3982> That is not related to quantum probability, but the closed universe hypothesis. 09:15:05 <NGC3982> And yes, all apples are green as much as all the time patches work with possible game alternations. 09:15:40 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 09:17:35 <szaman> what unusual is with apple green at one side only? 09:48:29 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:52:00 <dihedral> o/ 09:52:04 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1242499104.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 09:52:13 <drac_boy> hi 09:53:32 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 09:56:20 <Terkhen> hi dihedral and drac_boy 09:57:11 <dihedral> oi Terkhen :) 09:57:56 <drac_boy> how're you two? :) 10:12:39 <Phazorx> dih hallo :) 10:14:50 <Terkhen> drac_boy: feeling very tired... going back to work is not fun 10:27:49 *** petern_ [~petern@217.64.121.243] has joined #openttd 10:30:23 *** peter1138 [~petern@217.64.121.241] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:40:28 <drac_boy> mm I can imagine 10:40:58 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:06 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 11:02:54 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:08:54 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1242499104.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 11:11:07 <dihedral> a Phazorx - i don't believe it 11:11:10 <dihedral> how are you sir? 11:20:46 <petern_> Mr Meldrew? 11:40:47 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-9-128.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:00:51 <Rubidium> interesting OpenTTD uses 33 ms ticks now, TTD has 27 ms and older OpenTTD 30 ms. 12:01:37 <NGC3982> Any particular reason for changing it? 12:01:38 <NGC3982> :) 12:01:44 <NGC3982> reasons* 12:30:17 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 12:35:49 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:56:49 <Rubidium> I wouldn't know the reason to change it to 33 ms, the other is probably a mistake someone sometime ago made when making the first openttd version 12:58:26 <NGC3982> Ah. 13:04:32 *** Priski [priski@lakka.kapsi.fi] has left #openttd [] 13:06:12 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:06:56 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1513:12d9:acaa:6315] has joined #openttd 13:06:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:11:50 <Phazorx> "a Phazorx"? are there others? i'm pretty sure it supposed to be "the" 13:12:10 <Phazorx> dihedral: quite fine actually... enjoying end of summer 13:13:09 <dihedral> nice to hear :-) 13:13:52 <Phazorx> swung by cuz i was looking at modern cargodist development here 13:22:01 <planetmaker> hm, when did we change to 33ms, Rubidium ? 13:22:18 <planetmaker> I recall when we discussed NML docs that OpenTTD used 30 13:31:52 <petern_> MILLISECONDS_PER_TICK = 30 13:31:53 <petern_> so... 13:32:00 <dihedral> Phazorx, good luck :-P 13:32:28 <Phazorx> dihedral: lost cause you think? 13:32:35 <dihedral> aye 13:32:46 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 13:32:46 <petern_> does 30 == 33 now? 13:35:20 <Phazorx> why not 25 or 50? 13:35:33 <petern_> That would be a massive change... 13:35:40 <Sacro> 10 * MATH_PI 13:36:00 <Phazorx> how many ticks per day btw? 13:36:12 <planetmaker> (30 == 33) as long as also (pi == 3) ;-) 74 ticks a day 13:36:50 <Phazorx> where did these magic numbers came from originally? 13:36:55 <Phazorx> Mr Sawyer? 13:37:33 <planetmaker> the 27: yes 13:37:34 <petern_> no, 74 * 27ms = 1 second 13:37:42 <petern_> approximately 13:37:48 <planetmaker> ehm... no? 13:37:54 <petern_> ehm... yes? 13:37:56 <planetmaker> @calc 0.027 * 74 13:37:57 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 1.998 13:37:58 <petern_> oh, 2 seconds :p 13:38:08 <petern_> typod :( 13:38:26 <Phazorx> 50 * 20 or 20*50 would make so much mroe sense :) 13:42:57 <Belugas> hello 13:44:12 <Rubidium> planetmaker: somewhere before 10:23 today ;) 13:46:48 <petern_> I assumed you were referring to a comment someone made :) 14:12:21 * NGC3982 wonders how inflation algoritm works. 14:12:31 <planetmaker> lol, Rubidium :-) 14:21:55 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-210-244-116.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 14:25:06 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 14:25:21 <DanMacK> Hey all 14:25:31 *** telanus [~telanus@196-210-244-116.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:26:32 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:27:41 <planetmaker> hey DanMacK ! 14:47:59 <Terkhen> hi DanMacK 14:51:37 <DanMacK> Howdy 15:07:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00bd14.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:16:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:21:19 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 15:24:30 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 15:45:02 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 15:45:03 *** Chrill [Chrill@h-49-50.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 15:50:49 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 16:18:36 *** chester_ [~chester@95-28-155-190.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 16:28:08 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn60-236.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:31:01 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn60-236.yok.fi] has joined #openttd 17:03:36 *** petern__ [~petern@217.64.121.100] has joined #openttd 17:05:56 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:10:02 *** petern_ [~petern@217.64.121.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:28:02 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:43:09 <Yexo> @commit 24489 17:43:11 <DorpsGek> Yexo: Commit by zuu :: r24489 trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp (2012-08-21 17:07:17 UTC) 17:43:12 <DorpsGek> Yexo: -Feature [FS#5230]: Display GS dead state in AI debug window. 17:43:17 <planetmaker> \o/ @ Zuu 17:43:43 <frosch123> cia announcements are a lot more subtile :) 17:43:48 <planetmaker> yes 17:44:10 * planetmaker steals an "i" from frosch123 17:44:19 <Terkhen> :P 17:45:23 <frosch123> planetmaker: yeah, i was wondering how to mess up the spelling so that it looks english, i thought adding an unspoken e at the end would suffice 17:45:37 <frosch123> but apparently you also have to drop arbitrary letters :) 17:45:39 <planetmaker> :D 17:45:43 <Zuu> :-) 17:46:21 * planetmaker knows that way of "creating" words well, though 17:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that's how half my vocabulary works :p 17:54:25 <Belugas> haa... come on people... can't you cheer up and congratule Zuu for being our new dev??? 17:54:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that would be way too obvious :p 17:59:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so... what's the next old game then? 18:00:02 <planetmaker> hu? 18:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> new games are boring... 18:00:33 <planetmaker> haha :-) 18:14:52 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:19:43 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:20:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:23:18 <Muxy> what's the purpose of squirel_export.sh ? 18:24:19 <Zuu> To re-generate some files. 18:24:45 <Muxy> what files and for what use ? 18:26:02 <glx> api headers 18:26:19 <glx> needed to compile openttd correctly 18:26:35 <Muxy> is there some equiv with windows ? 18:26:49 <glx> you need msys 18:26:53 <Zuu> or cygwin 18:27:06 <glx> maybe one day I'll do a vbs for it 18:27:19 <Muxy> sh2vns 18:27:25 <Muxy> *sh2vbs 18:27:46 <Zuu> The only case you need to run it manually is if you make changes to the AI/GS API. 18:28:07 <Muxy> ok, so i dont need for NoAI 18:28:07 <Zuu> If you clone/check out trunk, you shouldn't need to run it yourself. 18:31:24 <planetmaker> you need it, if you change NoAI functions / API, of course. Not, if you "just" write an AI itself 18:33:02 <Muxy> i just added a new function, is it considered as a change ? 18:34:20 <glx> in the api ? 18:34:53 <Muxy> yes, the VehicleOld Event Message 18:35:06 <glx> then you need to run the script 18:35:06 <Zuu> Yes, that is an API change 18:36:02 <Muxy> and it will generate/modify what file 18:36:24 *** petern_ [~petern@217.64.121.68] has joined #openttd 18:36:49 <Muxy> the best is to try 18:37:13 <Zuu> Read the beginning of the shell script for information on from where you should execute it. 18:37:31 <Muxy> yes i saw 18:38:53 *** peter1138 [~petern@217.64.121.241] has joined #openttd 18:40:13 *** petern__ [~petern@217.64.121.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:42:46 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host228-221-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:42:53 <Wolf01> hello o/ 18:44:26 *** petern_ [~petern@217.64.121.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6ACC1.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6ACC1.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:52:37 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 18:52:40 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:53:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:55:10 <Muxy> glx: if i dont run this script will i be able to compile ? 18:55:30 <planetmaker> not, if you change api 18:56:00 <planetmaker> not necessarily at least. or get some broken result 18:56:45 <Zuu> It is probably possible to update the automatic generated files manually to test it, but before submitting the patch its a good idea to generate the files from the script and use that in the patch. 18:57:02 <Muxy> cause i added my VehicleOld Event, and compile was ok, also running ofc 18:58:35 <planetmaker> that's one of the things which would need it... or AIs won't really be able to make use of it properly 19:01:15 <NGC3982> Hey. 19:01:43 <NGC3982> This questions is very non-OpenTTD related, but it seems to right up this channels alley. 19:01:51 *** FlyingFoX [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #openttd 19:02:29 <NGC3982> If i hypotheticly store every piece of information in the universe on a hard drive - shouldn't i be able to use entropy rules as a form of compression? 19:03:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:03:25 <Alberth> does that save any space? 19:03:30 <Alberth> hi andy 19:03:39 <Yexo> if you've saved all information already, why do you want compression? 19:03:45 *** peter1138 [~petern@217.64.121.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:04:09 <NGC3982> Alberth: If entropy allows certain configurations to be static, i guess it would. 19:04:36 <NGC3982> For instance, simply knowing the probability for configuration A existing next to configuration C. 19:05:14 <NGC3982> Or, a singularity, where huge areas can be described with very little data, since the information is static troughout the given areas. 19:05:14 <Alberth> but you still need to store that A is there imho 19:05:47 <andythenorth> hi Alberth 19:05:52 <NGC3982> Alberth: I guess. 19:05:56 * andythenorth resumes losing at NoCarGoal 19:06:04 <Rubidium> NGC3982: you can't store every piece of information on a hard disk; simple quantum physics rule (Schroedinger's cat) 19:06:37 <NGC3982> Rubidium: Yes, i know. Though, this is a hypothetical scenario that do not need that in consideration. 19:06:46 <Alberth> the harddisk would be part of the universre too :p 19:07:33 <Alberth> so you need infinite amount of space to store everything :) 19:07:45 <NGC3982> Think of it as a Planck-length described as a bit, and that configurations of Planck-lengths make up the universe. 19:08:02 <NGC3982> Yes, well, that is the great thing about hypothesism. 19:09:26 <Alberth> afaik entropy is not about likelyhood of configuration, it's just about every configuration is equally likely, and 'non-ordered' combinations then win by their numbers 19:10:02 <NGC3982> True, for physics. 19:10:19 <NGC3982> I guess you can use entropy to describe the probability of configurations being the same, on macro scales. 19:10:30 <NGC3982> But let's use the word "repeated configurations" instead. 19:10:44 <NGC3982> It seems to describe what im looking for in a better way. 19:10:56 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e773.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:11:17 <planetmaker> "universe" excludes in the word itself already that it can be mapped to anything less than itself 19:11:55 <NGC3982> And that is: If i (in a hypothetical scenario that ignores quantum business) store all the present information in the observable universe, i guess i could use orders of repeated configurations to describe stuff with some compression. 19:12:40 <NGC3982> But wait 19:12:44 <NGC3982> We already do that 19:12:55 <Rubidium> pff... isn't it much more efficient to store the important constants and the actual model. Then you can "easily" calculate the state at any moment in time 19:13:10 <NGC3982> Can't the laws and forces be described as definitions of compression? 19:13:56 <planetmaker> nope. You can't predict quantum level 19:14:05 <planetmaker> you can't even describe the state actually 19:15:37 <NGC3982> I don't think i understand. The relevance of not being abled to predict a quantum state doesn't exist if we can monitor larger scale information with predictable rules. 19:16:04 <NGC3982> That really means we can't use quantum processes as compression, but all the rules above it. 19:16:17 <Muxy> Yexo: task 5078 updated. 19:17:11 <planetmaker> NGC3982: you need understanding of quantum gravitation to properly describe and predict the universe. Ever heart of the butterfly effect? ;-) 19:17:29 <NGC3982> For instance, a field should be able to handle limits to a configuration (for instance, mass and it's reaction to the Higgs field) better then rules set for every individual configuration. That seems to be a compression itself? 19:17:43 <Rubidium> but you could predict the butterfly flapping, couldn't you? ;) 19:17:46 <NGC3982> planetmaker: Yes, that is needed in a scenario where quantum effects are taken into effect. 19:17:48 <andythenorth> I think I've solved FIRS supplies, but I'm going to be annoying and keep it a secret until I've tested it 19:17:56 <andythenorth> and it might require FIRS 2 :P 19:18:02 <andythenorth> due to whining about the change 19:18:04 <Rubidium> you just need to know the model and the begin state to perfection (which is undoable) 19:18:05 <andythenorth> also a few other things 19:19:24 <NGC3982> planetmaker: Where quantum effects are taken into consideration* 19:24:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: is that this bad movie with ashton kutcher? 19:25:03 <planetmaker> I don't know that movie... maybe? 19:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also an even worse second part, which i haven't seen 19:28:52 <NGC3982> Yes, it is. 19:28:55 <NGC3982> On both things. 19:29:15 <NGC3982> http://xkcd.com/936/ 19:30:43 <NGC3982> I found a paper that confirmed this, by the way. 19:31:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B76B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:31:14 <NGC3982> It seems like the general idea is that the simply adding laws to lots of mass creates different entropy 19:31:44 <NGC3982> Thus, entropy can be re-used to determine how the universe is structured, and therefor usable in compressing data if trying to map -everything-. 19:31:47 <NGC3982> Neat. 19:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> that didn't make any sense 19:38:39 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-170-200-26.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:39:05 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:39:09 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 19:40:26 <NGC3982> What was not understood? 19:40:45 <NGC3982> I will be happy to elaborate as soon as ive plowed trough my material. 19:42:19 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Can you tell me please, so I can whine about it? :P 19:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause> , 19:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Àh... 19:48:50 <andythenorth> ships have some serious pathfinding issues on rivers 19:48:58 <andythenorth> wrt depots 19:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> with YAPF or original? 19:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause> original is useless with rivers. and useless with seas as well... actually original is completely useless 19:50:54 <andythenorth> YAPF 19:51:16 <andythenorth> maybe I need to place more bouys 19:51:23 <andythenorth> I'm testing the effects without 19:51:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so what is the actual problem? 19:51:41 <andythenorth> (1) ships getting stuck in river sections, trying to get to a depot 19:51:56 <Eddi|zuHause> YAPF should find a path even without buoys 19:51:59 <andythenorth> (2) ships not turning round when leaving a dock 19:52:07 <andythenorth> i.e. going away from next destination 19:52:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you disabled 90° curves? 19:52:19 <andythenorth> yes :o 19:52:20 <andythenorth> always 19:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> is it better if you enable them? 19:52:35 <Rubidium> so they need more space to turn around 19:52:37 <andythenorth> let's see 19:52:57 <andythenorth> 90' curves is very plausible 19:53:00 <Eddi|zuHause> probably ships need places to go backwards 19:53:18 <NGC3982> andythenorth: I was wondering why nobody fixes that. 19:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: maybe because nobody reported it? 19:54:16 <Alberth> nobody wrote a fix for it :) 19:54:26 <andythenorth> if I see a pattern, I'll post a save 19:54:37 <andythenorth> mostly I just have to build increasingly more canals to fix it :P 19:54:38 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Sure, i have no idea. Since it's an "old" problem, i guessed it simply was a hard nut to crack. 19:54:43 <andythenorth> half my map becomes canals 19:54:58 <Alberth> watery maps are fun :) 19:55:03 <NGC3982> What interests me is why ships that have the same orders don't always take the same route. 19:55:14 <NGC3982> Ships are fantastic. 19:55:25 <CornishPasty> Someone should add openttd stuff to minecraft :P 19:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well i never use breakdowns/servicing, so the problem never really appeared for me 19:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: with YAPF they do, mostly 19:55:51 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Ah, i see. 19:56:13 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: with original, they just randomly pick a direction, even if it appears to be straight ahead within 20 tiles 19:56:27 <NGC3982> YAPF comes and is available in the newer (stable) versions of OpenTTD, right? 19:56:37 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: I see. 19:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> newer, as in 0.5.x? 19:56:52 <NGC3982> As in 1.2.1 and forward. 19:56:56 <NGC3982> -.+? 19:56:58 <NGC3982> :) 19:57:29 <Eddi|zuHause> well, YAPF for ship was disabled by default, due to performance issues, but they have been solved quite a while ago 19:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly before 1.1.x even, but not sure 19:57:59 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I also found ships to be baffled by rivers :-( 19:58:18 * FLHerne goes to eat stuff 19:58:23 <NGC3982> And is YAPF still disabled by default? 19:58:27 * NGC3982 tries it out. 19:58:41 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's now the default 19:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you have an old config file or load an old savegame 19:59:36 <NGC3982> Well, that means that "< NGC3982> What interests me is why ships that have the same orders don't always take the same route." actually refers to YAPF. 19:59:39 <NGC3982> Hm 19:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> oha... they arrested Walter White - meth cook 20:00:30 <Terkhen> you should keep spoilers to yourself :) 20:00:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the fun thing is, it's not a spoiler 20:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a real world guy named Walter White 20:01:07 <Eddi|zuHause> :) 20:01:09 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/n6djm.png 20:01:19 <Terkhen> oh, sorry, real life spoilers are of course allowed here :P 20:01:51 <NGC3982> For instance, look at this screenshot. All the ship in this picture are to drop off oil at the harbour and then follow an order far to the left. 20:02:03 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.serienjunkies.de/news/review/42387-walterwhitebreakingbad.jpg 20:02:57 <NGC3982> I wish i could code. 20:03:12 <NGC3982> Id fix it (or at least try, fail and cry). 20:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> "Walter Eddy White was sentenced to jail in 2008 and left on parole in 2010. he failed to attend a court meeting last month and was put on the top of the most wanted list" 20:05:00 <NGC3982> Oopsie. 20:11:19 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-210-244-116.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:20:08 *** siridle [siridle@1407ds1-hb.1.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 20:24:00 <andythenorth> NoCarGoal remains fun 20:24:17 <andythenorth> I think about 100k units for 30 years is about right for the map I have 20:24:20 <andythenorth> I think I'll get bronze :P 20:24:27 * andythenorth -> pub 20:24:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:28:53 *** Chrill [Chrill@h-49-50.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 20:36:34 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-105-255.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:36:43 <LordAro> eveings 20:40:04 <Yexo> evening LordAro 20:40:12 <planetmaker> salut LordAro 20:40:20 <Yexo> two more commits today due to your patches yesterday :p 20:40:28 <LordAro> hello developers :) 20:40:44 <LordAro> oh? 20:40:44 * LordAro looks 20:41:30 <LordAro> wait, how did Zuu commit? 20:42:02 * planetmaker assumes like svn ci -m "blah" :-P (or via tortoiseSVN) 20:42:46 <LordAro> :) 20:43:09 <LordAro> congrats Zuu on (i'm assuming) becoming developer :) 20:43:27 <LordAro> Yexo: i blame you not reviewing my code properly :P 20:43:52 <Yexo> right you are :) 20:44:06 <Zuu> LordAro: Thanks you are right 20:44:31 <LordAro> not running squirrel_export.sh was a silly mistake on my part though :L 20:46:58 * LordAro thinks that readme.txt and misc_gui.cpp are outdated in that case :P 20:48:00 <Yexo> Zuu: ^^ another commit for you :) 20:49:01 <LordAro> also forum 'status' 21:02:47 <Zuu> LordAro: You mean that the readme.txt should document that you have to run squirrel_export.sh when doing API work? 21:03:09 <LordAro> no :P 21:03:16 <LordAro> look at section X.X 21:03:41 <Zuu> :-) 21:18:08 <Alberth> good night 21:18:15 <planetmaker> g'night Alberth 21:18:18 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 21:25:35 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-171-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:28:55 <LordAro> could this be improved in any way? : http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1664/ 21:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you could use a named pipe instead of a tempfile 21:32:28 <frosch123> and you could also check the attributions in the commit message :p 21:33:04 <frosch123> though you will miss backports when using hg 21:33:09 <Eddi|zuHause> postulate: any program that cannot be improved is trivial. 21:33:14 <frosch123> and other weird branches :) 21:33:25 <Zuu> LordAro: uniq -c will print the number of occurances 21:33:40 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you know about programs like "gnu hello" ? 21:33:56 <frosch123> even trivial things can be "improved" 21:33:58 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what that is 21:34:09 <frosch123> though "improved" might be subjective :p 21:34:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but anyway, i have not said anything about the reverse 21:34:41 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: i tried the 'named pipe' but i kept getting errors... 21:34:46 <Zuu> Eg use: hg log --template "{author}\n" | sort | uniq -ic 21:35:01 <Zuu> to get data for the REPO in current directory. 21:36:02 <Zuu> append a "| sort" and it will show the results ordered by number of commits too. 21:36:34 <Yexo> should be "| sort -n" to sort numerically 21:36:41 <Yexo> otherwise you get weird sortings 21:36:58 <Zuu> ok 21:37:32 <Yexo> "10" < "2" etc. 21:38:12 <Zuu> It this case it works without -n, because the it has " 2" and "10". 21:38:29 <Yexo> for me it didn't 21:38:41 <Zuu> different 'uniq' versions probably. 21:38:42 <Yexo> I think because sort will take "fields" so it strips the spaces 21:39:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00bd14.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:04 <Zuu> or a 'sort' that trim the strings before 21:39:59 <LordAro> Yexo/Zuu: what if i want to sort alphabetically? :P 21:41:23 <Yexo> sort -k 2 21:41:30 <LordAro> ok, that whole block is now down to "echo `hg log -R --template "{author}\n"` | sort | uniq -ic" 21:41:38 <LordAro> hang on, ignore that 21:42:17 <LordAro> ok, that whole block is now down to "echo `hg log -R --template "{author}\n"` | sort | uniq -ic > devlist.tmp; cat devlist.tmp" 21:42:25 <LordAro> still not sure how to get rid of the temp file 21:42:28 <Yexo> why the echo / cat? 21:42:39 <Yexo> just do "hg log -R --template "{author}\n"` | sort | uniq -ic" 21:45:46 <LordAro> fixed :) 21:46:05 <LordAro> so basically, my way was massively over complicated? 21:47:34 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:52:18 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that's very common for "first tries" :) 21:54:16 <LordAro> hmm... ohloh.net doesn't display total number of commits anymore... 21:54:21 <LordAro> :P 21:58:20 <LordAro> hmm... RichK and signde are not noted to be developers, yet they have commits in trunk... 21:58:42 <LordAro> are (were) they devs? or just given special permission? 22:01:02 <Yexo> looking at https://www.ohloh.net/p/openttd/contributors ? 22:01:22 <Yexo> a lot of people are not listed as developer, you have to fill in that yourself I think 22:01:41 <LordAro> in the readme also 22:02:10 <LordAro> they are just listed in 'thanks to' 22:03:13 <LordAro> same for pasky and hackykid, it would seem 22:03:36 <Yexo> no idea 22:03:56 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.43.131.221] has joined #openttd 22:05:15 <LordAro> methinks Rubidium is the only one still around who is old enough to remember :) 22:05:55 <Yexo> certainly not 22:06:16 <Yexo> good night 22:06:37 <LordAro> night 22:10:31 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:12:19 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 22:17:23 <michi_cc> LordAro: Improvement for your script: "git shortlog -n -s" :p 22:17:37 <LordAro> shh! :P 22:17:58 <LordAro> i did come across something similar when i was googling solutions :) 22:18:36 <Zuu> so git users care more about commit stats than hg users? 22:18:47 <Zuu> s/users/developers/g 22:18:55 <michi_cc> hackykid was old PBS methinks, and pasky was (is) mentioned in some code comments for NewGRF code. 22:19:09 <Wolf01> 'night 22:19:12 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host228-221-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:20:15 <Terkhen> good night 22:23:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B76B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:20 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:38:32 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-103-149.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:42:43 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1513:12d9:acaa:6315] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:55 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1513:12d9:acaa:6315] has joined #openttd 22:43:03 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-105-255.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:44:16 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-9-128.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:45:37 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:48:48 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-170-200-26.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:22 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 23:02:51 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:38 *** chester_ [~chester@95-28-155-190.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:41 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e773.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 23:38:05 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]