Log for #openttd on 19th September 2012:
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00:03:40  <BadBrett> ouch!
00:03:50  <BadBrett> ;)
00:06:48  <BadBrett> sometimes it feels like i'm being ...gibed? is that the word? :)
00:07:27  <Kitty> hmm, replace vehicles doesn't allow you to replace helicopters with normal aircraft...
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00:33:36  <Mazur> A helicopter isn't an aorcraft, but a cakemixer.  Or to puree potato.  Yabe make a slushi.
00:34:16  <Supercheese> wat
00:36:32  <Kitty> wtf, I don't know what set of vehicles this comes from, but I have just been able to purchase an airship that carries 150 tonnes of coal
00:36:47  <Supercheese> that's Av8
00:36:50  <Supercheese> Skylift
00:37:13  <Supercheese>
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00:43:47  <Kitty> yeah
00:43:57  <Kitty> just hte idea of an airship to move coal amuses me
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00:49:43  <Leander> Supercheese
00:49:44  <Leander> xxxxxxxxxx
00:49:51  <Supercheese> was?
00:49:55  <Supercheese> wut?
00:53:41  <BadBrett> actually, not too long ago they wanted to use airships to transport timber from siberia... but for some reason it didn't work out
00:53:59  <Supercheese> insufficient vespene ga-... I mean, helium
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00:54:26  <Supercheese> ATI FirePro V5700 Graphics Card for 
00:54:28  <Supercheese>
00:54:41  <Supercheese> probably only valid for the next few minutes (Woot-off)
00:55:03  <Supercheese> damn fine price
00:55:50  * Supercheese is not affiliated with woot in any way
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05:44:28  <__ln__> 'nng
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05:47:31  <Supercheese> s'lv
05:48:02  <Supercheese> what's the term for when a whole bunch of people get logged off and then auto-relog? netsplit?
05:48:26  <__ln__> correcto
05:48:36  <Supercheese> seems like one happened a couple hours back
05:48:54  <__ln__> did indeed
05:51:19  * Supercheese loves the new ctrl+arrow and ctrl+del in text fields
05:51:39  <Supercheese> very helpful for dealing with station names
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06:08:43  <NGC3982> Morning.
06:09:17  <NGC3982> Supercheese:  Oh, I have to try that.
06:10:18  <NGC3982> In stable?
06:18:55  <Supercheese> yes, in trunk nightly
06:19:09  * Supercheese wonders if "trunk nightly" is redundant
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06:41:06  <NGC3982> Ah, i see.
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07:09:59  <Terkhen> good morning
07:11:40  <dihedral> hi
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07:21:14  <KnogleAFK> g'morning
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08:04:50  <peter1138> top - 09:04:46 up 30 days,  4:06, 11 users,  load average: 8.93, 7.88, 7.41
08:04:55  <peter1138> Cpu(s):  9.5%us, 38.8%sy,  0.0%ni, 10.6%id,  0.0%wa,  0.0%hi, 41.1%si,  0.0%st
08:04:56  <peter1138> :S
08:06:03  <NGC3982> Dat sum load.
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08:09:07  <Eddi|zuHause> 41.1%si ... is that worse than 98%wa?
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08:15:31  <peter1138> Whatever it is, it's making shit slow :S
08:15:44  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you're facing a DDoS :)
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08:31:04  <peter1138> No, it's something with the system. Starts of fine but slowly gets worse.
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08:37:21  <NGC3982> Probably a train deadlock in the feeder-system.
08:37:27  <NGC3982> Harr, harr. Pun, pun.
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08:57:53  <fjb> Moin.
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13:18:08  <Belugas> hello
13:18:42  <telanus1> hiii
13:20:53  <planetmaker> salut Belugas
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13:21:49  <Belugas> hi guys :)
13:21:49  <funnyfountain> hallo
13:21:56  <funnyfountain> andhi
13:22:09  <Belugas> andhallo
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13:22:43  <fjb> Moin Belugas.
13:22:48  <fjb> Moin planetmaker.
13:23:38  <planetmaker> hi fjb et al :-)
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13:24:49  <mrttd> hi guys
13:25:06  <planetmaker> hi
13:25:18  <fjb> Moin
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13:25:55  <mrttd> ajdghpoiasudhgpoaihpoifhpweoifh
13:26:12  <planetmaker> there's an irc test channel... #test
13:27:00  <fjb> mrttd: English please.
13:27:38  <mrttd> :):)OK
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13:29:29  <mrttd> :O:D
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14:26:39  <Hanfboy4000> hi together :) id like to translate some english websites of the open ttdwiki into german but i havenÂŽt got access to do this. i want to be a part of this community so what should i do to translate items into german?
14:27:05  <dihedral> register
14:27:08  <dihedral> login
14:27:10  <dihedral> do work
14:27:23  <Hanfboy4000> where i can register?
14:27:31  <Hanfboy4000> i didnt find anything
14:27:59  <dihedral> that is the first challenge of being part of the community
14:28:29  <Hanfboy4000> hahaha good joke :D ok then i have to solved this problem :D
14:29:02  <planetmaker> right... the wiki's login doesn't offer a register as it seems
14:30:05  <planetmaker> <-- register there. The same login is valid on all OpenTTD pages. Except the forums which is separate
14:30:31  <planetmaker> or rather...
14:30:35  <dihedral> i thought it was funny
14:31:13  <planetmaker> moderately. As the wiki - opposed to the other services - doesn't link back to
14:31:37  <planetmaker> which in my book is not a good user experience :-)
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14:32:04  <dihedral> nope
14:33:39  <Hanfboy4000> thanks a lot guys :D
14:34:06  <planetmaker> looking forward to your translations :-)
14:36:32  <planetmaker> woot? when I'm logged-in I see a link on the log-in page which allows me to go to account creation :D
14:37:13  <dihedral> :-P
14:37:18  <dihedral> bugs... bugs everywhere
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14:38:35  <planetmaker>
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14:38:55  <planetmaker> do other users who are logged-in see the "create account", too?
14:40:44  <planetmaker> lol The boolean really works the wrong way around it seems. But I can't edit that page. At least via web
14:45:41  <fjb> It's not a bug, it's a security feature.
14:46:25  <planetmaker> to not even offer any clue as of where you can register?
14:48:35  <fjb> You can only register after autheticating yourself, thus proving you are authorized to register yourself.
14:48:44  <planetmaker> :D
14:49:02  <fjb> :P
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15:15:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24532 /trunk/src/network/core/udp.cpp: -Change: try to read more UDP packets per game loop
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17:03:02  <frosch123> damn, i am totally lost in xkcd
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17:03:20  <Supercheese> yeah, it's amazing
17:03:29  <Supercheese> I should try to wget all the images
17:03:29  <frosch123> i cannot find back home :p
17:03:43  <Supercheese> 1n1w.png, I think is home
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17:04:04  <Supercheese> or very close to
17:04:14  <frosch123> oh i think i made it to the surface again
17:04:22  <Supercheese> 1n1e, actually
17:04:35  <Supercheese>*.pngs for the images
17:04:47  <Supercheese>
17:05:56  <blathijs> or for a scrollable, zoomable overview ;-)
17:06:13  <Supercheese> someone put THAT up fast
17:06:37  <blathijs> Supercheese: It's been there for most of the day already :-)
17:07:00  <Supercheese> you mean most of the night
17:07:02  <Supercheese> :P
17:07:03  <blathijs> Also, I think that pretty much every IRC channel I'm in has been talking about today's XKCD. Nice :-)
17:07:07  <Supercheese> GMT -8
17:07:15  <blathijs> GMT+1 here :-)
17:07:24  <blathijs> +2 even
17:07:37  * Supercheese is not factoring in the wizardry that is daylight savings
17:08:29  <frosch123> yay, i managed to drag once aound
17:08:35  <Eddi|zuHause> "i wonder if there's life up there"
17:08:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and then there's someone surfing on a plane :)
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17:12:09  <FLHerne> frosch123: I am too :o
17:13:40  <Endymion_Mallorn> Silly question: If I have the EGRVTS NewGRF on my machine, is there any reason to download GRVTS?
17:13:49  <Eddi|zuHause> no
17:14:35  <FLHerne> Endymion_Mallorn: A 32bppEZ version of GRVTS is available, there's no corresponding one for eGRVTS yet :P
17:15:04  <FLHerne> If you're not using 32bppEZ, there's no need to have GRVTS anymore
17:16:40  <Endymion_Mallorn> Ah, awesome.
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17:17:17  <Simonn> guys
17:17:17  <Simonn> :(
17:17:21  <Simonn> I did it again
17:17:27  <Supercheese> Sounds like a song
17:17:36  <Eddi|zuHause> a really bad one...
17:17:41  <Supercheese> aye
17:17:41  <Eddi|zuHause> if you're old enough :p
17:18:02  <Endymion_Mallorn> I've been playing with EGRVTS for a while now, so when I ran across GRVTS in GRFCrawler, I raised an eyebrow.  And what did you do, Simonn?
17:18:23  <Simonn>
17:18:24  <Simonn> :(
17:18:33  <FLHerne> Endymion_Mallorn: The 'e' stands for 'extended', I think ;-)
17:18:58  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, obviously your train line is too short :)
17:19:05  <Simonn> ya won't say
17:19:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Simonn: just turn the train around
17:19:18  <Simonn> there used to be two trains, but I had capacity problems so I added a third
17:19:20  <Endymion_Mallorn> It does.  Which is why I wondered if the un-extended had anything that the extended didn't.
17:19:22  <Simonn> but didn't notice that they were too short
17:19:30  <Simonn> How do I turn em around
17:19:38  <Eddi|zuHause> click on it
17:19:40  <Simonn> I tried editing their orders and skipping the station
17:19:44  <Simonn> but they won't turn around
17:19:47  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a "turn around" button in the train view
17:19:52  <FLHerne> Endymion_Mallorn: The extended one has largely the same as the original, but then extended :P
17:20:15  <FLHerne> eGRVTS2 is completely different though
17:20:19  <Simonn> ooo theres a signal force train to continue
17:20:23  <Simonn> gonna try that one first
17:20:24  <Simonn> lol
17:20:29  <FLHerne> (And hasn't been properly released yet)
17:20:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Simonn: that is a "create a big explosion" button
17:20:49  <Simonn> pff it won't work
17:20:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Simonn: i strongly recomment you to never use it
17:21:07  <Simonn> I save first
17:21:08  <Simonn> ;)
17:21:08  <Eddi|zuHause> expecially in conjunction with path signals, it's pretty much useless
17:21:21  <Simonn> aa they are path signals
17:21:24  <Simonn> okay another question
17:21:28  <Simonn> if you are up for it
17:21:28  <Simonn> ;););)
17:21:41  <Simonn> do you know any GRFs like so I can buy vehicles
17:21:43  <Simonn> trains and planes
17:21:45  <Simonn> which are very big
17:21:56  <Simonn> Like double deck maglev trains
17:21:56  <Eddi|zuHause> not really
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17:22:03  <Simonn> or superjumbo jets
17:22:10  <Simonn> which transport like 2000 passengers
17:22:24  <planetmaker> quak :-)
17:22:27  <Simonn> my hub is useless, it's congested so much I don't know what to do
17:22:32  <Alberth> quek :)
17:22:37  <planetmaker> happened to me, too today, frosch. Hi Alberth
17:22:42  <Endymion_Mallorn> Av8 maybe?
17:23:18  <Endymion_Mallorn> Either way, thanks for the answer - bbl.
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17:23:33  <Supercheese> Av8 late aircraft have, what, 600 passenger capacity?
17:23:51  <Supercheese> throw a couple of those on an international airport, that'll get things moving
17:23:55  <Simonn> I already have av8
17:24:09  <Simonn> all my aircrafts are 600 passengers
17:24:23  <Supercheese> then you need some better trains
17:24:36  <Supercheese> you running any trainsets or just default vehicles?
17:24:37  <Simonn> I have 6 airports
17:24:39  <Simonn> and all of them have a queue
17:25:09  <Simonn> I run standard trains I think
17:25:16  <Simonn> The Chimron or something
17:25:19  <Simonn> Level 4 Maglev
17:25:25  <Simonn> but that's not the problem I need double decker wagons
17:25:30  <Simonn> like 100 passengers per wagon instead of 40
17:25:32  <Supercheese> exactly
17:25:37  <Supercheese> you need to get a new trainset then
17:25:37  <Simonn> this is the future I'm having overpopulation troubles
17:25:41  <Supercheese> which means starting a new game
17:25:49  <Simonn> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
17:26:04  <Supercheese> if you don't want to start a new game, you're stuck with 40 pax per wagon
17:26:12  <Supercheese> (well, technically not)
17:26:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the transrapid in DBSetXL has like 120 passengers per wagon
17:26:23  <FLHerne> Simonn: Get a house set that makes less people :P
17:26:38  <Simonn> transrapid
17:26:42  <Simonn> can't I put that in with an existing map?
17:26:43  <Supercheese> but I'll definitely not recommend adding a train grf in a running game
17:26:47  <Supercheese> thought it is possible
17:26:53  <Supercheese> though*
17:26:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Simonn: not if you already have trains
17:27:08  <planetmaker> Supercheese, adding that trainset to the existing game, will 100% screw up the game
17:27:26  <planetmaker> it will screw up that much that it most likely will crash.
17:27:42  <planetmaker> I'm not exagerating here
17:28:34  <Simonn> come on there has to be a way
17:28:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Simonn: yes, sell all trains.
17:28:57  <Simonn> and then add a new train set?
17:30:13  <planetmaker> you don't need bigger trains or wagons. But better service and probably more trains which requires a better network
17:30:38  <Simonn> I need bigger trains
17:30:46  <Simonn> trust me
17:30:52  <Simonn> I'm a professional
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17:31:06  <Alberth> that's what we are afraid of :)
17:32:15  <Simonn> I need bigger planes and bigger trains in the future man
17:32:21  <Simonn> 600 passengers in 2063
17:32:31  <Simonn> In 2063 they probably got planes of 6000
17:32:42  <Simonn> China is booming like crazy
17:32:54  <FLHerne> Was there a big change in the Advanced settings that breaks all the patches?
17:32:54  <Alberth> I don't think so, why would more people be traveling?
17:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause> "never trust a man who says he's good at something because it's his job."
17:33:13  * FLHerne keeps having crashes when trying to update them :P
17:33:29  <Simonn> because there are more people Alberth
17:33:46  <Alberth> but the western world is running empty :)
17:33:50  <Simonn> They all more and more planes in the bigger cities, but the existing airports become congested
17:33:52  <Simonn> lol
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17:34:03  <Simonn> I'm sure that's what Air traffic controllers in JFK are thinking
17:34:07  <Simonn> man every day less planes
17:34:24  <Rubidium> much bigger planes are likely not feasible
17:34:32  <Simonn> not now
17:34:35  <Simonn> but in the FUTURE!
17:34:43  <Rubidium> unless there is a signficant breakthrough
17:34:54  <Eddi|zuHause> well, fuel prices will double once israel attacks iran (probably soon after the US election)
17:34:56  <Alberth> Simonn: all this travel is just stupid imho, I think people would avoid it if they could
17:35:05  <Simonn> well trust me
17:35:10  <Eddi|zuHause> and they're unlikely to drop afterwards
17:35:29  <Fremen> H-bussen ftw
17:35:54  <Supercheese> Giant future-planes huh
17:35:58  <Alberth> FLHerne: adding of the tips in the window is the last big change there
17:36:14  <Simonn>
17:36:16  <Rubidium> Alberth: window?
17:36:18  <Simonn> does this look like people are staying at home
17:36:19  <Supercheese> *_DESC strings right?
17:36:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the A380 already almost dismembered themselves during flight
17:36:20  <Rubidium> you mean winglets?
17:36:28  <Alberth> Rubidium: advanced settings
17:36:39  <Rubidium> oh...
17:36:46  <Rubidium> desync!
17:36:54  <Alberth> sorry to break your idea :p
17:36:57  <Supercheese> Simon, you need to put your train stations farther apart
17:37:06  <Supercheese> too close leads to congestion
17:37:21  <Simonn> what do you mean farther apart?
17:37:23  <Simonn> they are all the same station
17:37:29  <Supercheese> wait what
17:37:30  <Simonn> all the stations you see there are one station
17:37:38  <Simonn> can't you see the tunnels
17:37:42  <Simonn> there are tracks going beneath them
17:38:23  <Supercheese> default wagon loading speeds are pretty low, IIRC
17:38:25  <Rubidium> you could reduce the length needed for switches by 66%
17:38:44  <Rubidium> just a single crossover so you have in-out-in-out-in-out-in-out-in
17:38:56  <Rubidium> and then untangle that where you have the space
17:39:16  <Simonn> I don't understand what you just said
17:39:16  <Simonn> lol
17:39:28  <Simonn> Supercheese : is there any way to boost this?
17:39:38  <Simonn> or ..... add bigger wagons? :( please there must be  a way I'm willing to sell all my trains
17:39:46  <Simonn> and install a patch and then buy them again
17:40:41  <Supercheese> but are you willing to start a new game? if not, I cannot help you
17:40:49  <Supercheese> (in that regard anyway)
17:40:57  <Simonn> man... what about my city? :(
17:41:00  <Supercheese> you could still do with some better track layout
17:41:22  <Supercheese> but my own layouts are pretty weak, I defer to the experts for that
17:41:48  <FLHerne> Supercheese: Did you look at 0ad? :P
17:41:57  <Supercheese> yep
17:42:06  <FLHerne> :D
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17:42:13  <Simonn>
17:42:17  <Supercheese> Couldn't find any "trees swaying" graphics settings
17:42:20  <Wolf01> evenink
17:42:30  <Alberth> hi Wolf01
17:42:36  * FLHerne needs to encourage lots more people to use it so that there are more people to play MP with ;-)
17:42:39  <Supercheese> wait, Simonn, are you playing with cargodist or something?
17:42:46  <Simonn> cargodist?
17:43:08  <Supercheese> that's what your station window seems to imply
17:43:16  <Supercheese> Chill's Patchpack, perchance?
17:43:43  <Simonn> no :s I think it's just standard
17:43:55  <Supercheese> you just have zillions of transfers
17:44:00  <Simonn> I have
17:44:01  <Simonn> lol
17:44:05  <Simonn> I told you it's my hub
17:44:11  <Simonn> thats why I need bigger planes
17:44:18  * Supercheese generally avoids passenger transfers
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17:44:29  <Simonn> There are 6 airports that tap off Simonnport
17:44:33  <Simonn> and about 150 trains
17:44:38  <Simonn> but it can't handle traffic
17:44:49  <Supercheese> no kidding
17:45:13  <Supercheese> yeah, with default maglevs I think you're pretty hosed on capacity and loading speed
17:45:13  <Simonn> It stays pretty stable at 13.000
17:45:31  <Supercheese> I haven't played vanilla trains in so long
17:46:54  <Simonn>
17:46:59  <Simonn> I can't leave this magnificent city behind
17:47:21  <FLHerne> Supercheese; Settings menus don't really exist yet. local.cfg :P
17:47:26  <Supercheese> You could replicate by making a new scenario and mashing the "expand" button on a city of your choice :P
17:47:38  <Supercheese> ah, guess I have to dive around appdata
17:48:10  <Simonn> do you even know how many bus stations there are in these cities
17:48:18  <Supercheese> (was not serious)
17:48:26  <Simonn> =(((
17:48:30  <FLHerne> Oh, apparently wavy trees are on by default in A11 :-)
17:49:39  <Rubidium> Simonn:,%202000-09-02.png <- minimal signalling near the station
17:50:23  <Rubidium> you need 6 tiles for tunnel entrance+track+signals, I need only 3
17:51:08  <Simonn> yes but in my case a train can go from the other side to the other
17:51:11  <Simonn> no?
17:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i would probably switch around the track directions
17:51:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. all currently incoming tracks should be outgoing
17:51:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and vice versa
17:51:50  <Eddi|zuHause> then all trains have two choices at any time
17:52:01  <Rubidium> Simonn: you should do that before the station already
17:52:04  <Eddi|zuHause> currently the outermost track has no choice
17:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause> (speaking about Rubidium's picture)
17:52:25  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: true, it's just a simple idea regarding to rough layout
17:52:34  <Simonn> in my case there is always a choice
17:52:35  <Simonn> lol
17:52:41  <Rubidium> or rather before the tunnels start
17:52:53  <Simonn> before the tunnel starts
17:52:58  <Simonn> there is another tunnel with another station
17:53:11  <Rubidium> that way vehicles won't be blocking eachother when entering/leaving
17:53:30  <Rubidium> Simonn: so it's just trains going back and forth between two stations?
17:53:36  <Simonn> no
17:53:50  <Simonn> it's a line
17:53:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i know, i had a similar idea a few years ago.
17:54:01  <Simonn> going east to west in my city
17:54:04  <Simonn> and in the middle there is my hub
17:54:29  <Rubidium> well, I wouldn't put a terminus in the middle as 'hub'
17:54:43  <Simonn> terminus? :p
17:55:04  <Rubidium> a station where trains have to turn around
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17:55:12  <Simonn> they don't have to turn around
17:55:59  <Rubidium> most platforms in the screenshot are connected by track at only one side
17:56:13  <Simonn> yeah but those have enough capacity
17:56:30  <Simonn> well.. you know not enough
17:56:34  <Simonn> but they only lack about 20.000
17:56:55  <Supercheese> off to classes
17:56:59  <Supercheese> valete omnes
17:56:59  <Simonn>
17:57:02  <Simonn> this is the problem
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17:57:13  <Simonn> this
17:58:07  <Rubidium> you can't help much there
17:58:20  <Rubidium> unless you destroy some houses/airport
17:58:32  <Simonn> well that's what I did
17:58:36  <Simonn> there used to be only 4 tracks
17:59:06  <Simonn> Thats why I say I need double decker passenger carts
17:59:10  <Rubidium> even then you could consider building half at the other side of the airport
17:59:12  <Simonn> without destroying my world :( starting a new game
17:59:43  <Simonn> at the other side of the airport there are 4 more airports
18:00:31  <Rubidium> can't you add livestock carriages and refit them to passengers?
18:00:31  <Rubidium> "cattle class" ;)
18:00:45  <Simonn> lol
18:01:59  <Simonn>
18:02:01  <Simonn> my 4 airports
18:02:29  <Simonn> and I could buy like 60 more planes, because my airports at the borders of the map are flooded too with 8000+ passengers waiting at all of them
18:02:38  <Simonn> but then the hub couldn't handle anymore
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18:23:19  <NGC3982> Evening.
18:23:41  <frosch123> damn, why did my compiler stop inlining static const integers when they are class members :s
19:20:57  <Simonn> I think my trains in openttd look like this
19:20:59  <Simonn> but then maglev
19:21:31  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> can't you add livestock carriages and refit them to passengers? <-- the german government paid "3rd class group tickets" for these transports in the 1940a
19:30:51  <Simonn> lol
19:30:56  <Simonn> EDIT: read the whole thread. It answers all you can want to know. No, I won't put a summary here
19:30:57  <Simonn> </planetmaker>
19:30:59  <Simonn> planetmaker :@@@ :P
19:36:33  <planetmaker> ... ?
19:37:35  <planetmaker> oh, changing newgrfs. Yes, you very much look like the person not reading anything, but then come whining that stuff broke on your oh-so-precious savegame
19:37:44  <planetmaker> so no, especially to you I cannot recommend it
19:37:55  <Simonn> lol
19:37:56  <Simonn> ;(
19:38:05  <Simonn> planetmaker have I ever told you that you ae very, very handsome
19:38:11  * Simonn massages planetmaker muscular shoulders
19:42:16  <Chris_Booth> wow how do these people find there way to IRC?
19:43:12  <Alberth> they read the wiki?
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19:45:09  * Simonn nods
19:45:10  <Simonn> the wiki!
19:46:40  <Simonn> I googled for openttd IRC
19:46:41  <Simonn> lol
19:46:52  <Simonn> I didn't even know there was a wiki at that time
19:48:47  <Alberth> ok, that confirms you're not reading anything :p
19:49:07  <Simonn> hey I read the entire wiki after I found out
19:49:19  <Alberth> just kidding :)
19:49:34  <Simonn> You don't know how much time I spend using the blocks to build roads/rails/whatever who only work in one direction
19:50:13  <Simonn> before discovering that you could use that all-direction and just slide across the map
19:50:28  <Alberth> playing OpenTTD cannot be a problem, can it? :D
19:50:42  <Simonn> no but I found it hard to get into at first
19:50:50  <Simonn> the first hours
19:50:56  <Alberth> it is, but deep games often have that
20:25:44  <frosch123> openttd? no bundled tutorial. zero points
20:29:12  <NGC3982> Alberth: It sure can.
20:29:34  <NGC3982> My stock exchanges have gone down the tubes completely since i started playing again.
20:29:42  <NGC3982> Since i used to put my spare time on trading.
20:29:51  <NGC3982> Not i put my spare time on NewGRFs.
20:29:52  <NGC3982> :(
20:30:39  <Alberth> NewGRFs are much better :)
20:31:16  <Alberth> you can share them and get richer at the same time :)
20:34:29  * planetmaker hugs Alberth
20:39:43  <Alberth> :)
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21:04:19  <NGC3982>
21:04:24  * NGC3982 hands oround the channel.
21:04:38  <NGC3982> -o+a
21:05:23  * fjb gets hungry.
21:07:41  <xQR> mh, anybody knows why that delay of (at least) 1 tick for every DoCommand is needed in scripts?
21:08:09  <xQR> want to set goals for all cities on the map from a citybuilder gamescript
21:08:15  <xQR> but a bigger map can have 1000 towns/cities and if i set 4 cargo goals for each that is 4000 ticks waiting time = more than 2 minutes
21:08:21  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:08:37  <xQR> so basically it now on startup just sits there and tells you "please wait" :/
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21:08:54  <xQR> there are some SetGrowthRate calls too which do the same
21:09:04  <xQR> and ofc other actions beside that delay take time too
21:09:13  <xQR> but that delay is really the annoying part here
21:09:27  <Rubidium> in networking you need to run it in the next tick as the clients are already executing the current one
21:09:37  <Rubidium> since you want the result of the command you have to wait for that
21:10:17  <xQR> well in my case the server is empty, but an admin port client is connected, probably treated like a client for that matter
21:10:35  <xQR> but i already thought it would be something like that
21:10:39  <xQR> thx for explanation
21:10:47  <Rubidium> furthermore an AI building a whole network in one tick ain't nice
21:11:00  <xQR> it's only initialization
21:11:19  <xQR> later actions are only done for single objects
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21:11:59  <Rubidium> doesn't it already run during map generation? Then has already done 1280 ticks
21:12:12  <Rubidium> and 1000 towns is an awful lot in MP
21:12:15  <xQR> no, it is run a bit later
21:12:30  <Rubidium> @calc 2048*2048/(40*40)
21:12:30  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 2621.44
21:12:46  <Rubidium> @calc 512*512/(40*40)
21:12:46  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 163.84
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21:13:29  <Rubidium> so for a reasonable MP map it's not that much
21:16:48  <xQR> i guess i will change it so that the initialization is done bit by bit in the background
21:17:08  <Terkhen> good night
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21:22:34  <xQR>
21:22:51  <xQR> that's a 1024x1024, quite common when i check the current server list
21:23:20  <xQR> as i said there are some more calls, SetCargoGoal was only one example
21:23:27  <xQR> maybe i can optimize a bit, but the central problem stays
21:23:44  <Rubidium> no reason so many people complain that their computer can't keep up
21:24:10  <xQR> mh?
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21:24:56  <xQR> what do you mean, the clients would suffer because of the DoCommands?
21:28:35  <xQR> there should be a SetCargoGoal and SetGrowthRate that can be applied to all towns and cities in one step (and the respective DoCommand)
21:28:46  <xQR> useful for such initializations
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21:29:21  <Rubidium> no, huge maps + lots of vehicles == slowness
21:30:04  <xQR> i don't see what that would have to do with my current specific problem, it doesn't even need vehicles to be slow :P
21:30:31  <Rubidium> but you talk about a 1024x1024 map
21:30:39  <Rubidium> which takes ages to initialise
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21:30:45  <Rubidium> a smaller map takes much less
21:31:09  <xQR> it wouldn't if there were DoCommands that could set town cargo goals for all towns on the map in one step ;)
21:31:33  <Rubidium> that would makesome sense, yes
21:31:46  <xQR> this is not about the map or server being slow in any other way, everything else is fine
21:31:58  <xQR> it's only these calls that generate DoCommands for each of the citiey
21:32:01  <xQR> *cities
21:33:21  <xQR> other than that i know exactly what you mean, players demand bigger and higher and faster and whatnot games all the time
21:33:42  <xQR> and you give them only a little bit bigger and they already start to whine "i can't connect anymore", "it's lagging"
21:33:52  <xQR> everyday admin business :P
21:35:03  <Rubidium> but seriously... most MP games are either quick competitive or some cooperative thing. In both cases a >512x512 map would be too big to be filled
21:35:56  <xQR> though i think it's also a software problem to some degree, people especially complain that OpenTTD takes only 0.01% of available bandwidth and 10% of available CPU but they get told their computer is too slow
21:36:04  <xQR> feels like driving a ferrari constantly in first gear
21:36:13  <xQR> i guess that's because OpenTTD only has a single thread
21:36:43  <Rubidium> it's not worth the effort to change that
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21:41:34  <xQR> our 2048x512 server at the end of the game is usually so crowded that people have a hard time finding a free spot to lay a track
21:46:42  <xQR> i saw people in or close to the admin team often indicate (or even state directly) that they think single player is more important
21:46:52  <xQR> which is fine, it's an opinion someone can have
21:47:19  <xQR> but it gets weird when people that probably haven't played a single public multiplayer game within the last 2 years tell you "how multiplayer games are"
21:47:30  <xQR> only coop and quick competetive?
21:47:38  <xQR> just scrolled through the server list and didn't find a single server indicating it would be cooperative in some way
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21:47:53  <xQR> what i did find though is several servers showing a huge goal that cannot be reached in a quick game
21:47:55  <planetmaker> it's funny when people join a channel and tell us what we know, what we did and how we should look at things
21:47:59  <xQR> current top 5 by player count has a goal of 1.5 billion EUR
21:49:08  <xQR> also not all of the players join and play the full time - some really do (and sleep some hours between, the freaks :P) but others just enjoy playing there for 1 hour in a map where many things are happening
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21:52:20  <xQR> i don't see to what in my explanations that would refer to planetmaker
21:52:59  <Rubidium> I currently see one long goal and two short goals in top 5
21:53:15  <xQR> yep
21:57:48  <xQR> anyway, just set up a 512x512 map with number_towns = 3, which lead to 192 towns/cities
21:58:04  <xQR> with 5 DoCommands per town it's still almost thousand ticks
21:58:22  <xQR> i still think i could use commands for all towns :P
21:59:08  <xQR> (script actually took 1295 ticks, as it also does other things and probably can still be optimized a bit)
22:00:49  <xQR> so would it make sense to create a bug tracker entry for it or are there technical reasons why this couldn't work?
22:01:12  <Rubidium> a single command to set the same goal for each town?
22:01:18  <Rubidium> or multiple command/tick?
22:01:29  <xQR> basically SetCargoGoal() working without a town id, then affecting all towns
22:01:34  <xQR> same for SetGrowthRate()
22:01:46  <xQR> it wouldn't make sense mid-game but good for initialization work
22:02:18  <xQR> no, they should just lead to a single DoCommand each which is interpreted by the clients accordingly
22:02:46  <Rubidium> for the single command it makes sense
22:02:59  <xQR> ok thx
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22:29:47  <Bad_Brett> did the server just crash?
22:30:21  <Supercheese> hm>
22:30:26  <Supercheese> ?*
22:31:43  <Bad_Brett> everybody quit the channel... and i can't access openttdcoop
22:32:01  <Supercheese> I'm not on ottdcoop, but this one's been fine for me
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22:32:32  <Bad_Brett> it happened just before you arrived
22:32:45  <Bad_Brett> it seems
22:32:49  <Bad_Brett> anyway
22:32:56  <Supercheese> yeah, perhaps
22:32:57  <Bad_Brett> i can ask you instead
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22:34:31  <xQR> a lot of people on IRC with host quit IRC nearly 30 minutes ago
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22:34:39  <xQR> [23:17:21] † V453000 ( (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:34:41  <xQR> for example
22:35:00  <xQR> so looks like there is some problen
22:35:04  <xQR> -n+m
22:35:11  <Bad_Brett> yep
22:35:16  <KenjiE20> that should probably be adressed over in ##openttdcoop, but yes
22:35:22  <KenjiE20> -#
22:36:31  <Bad_Brett> if i use two cargos from the cargo table i write [[IRON,8],[COAL,8]] and it works perfectly... but when I try to use only one cargo, i can't get it to work... i thought it would be as simple as [IRON,8], but it won't work... (i'm working with industry_tiles)
22:38:08  <Supercheese> try double brackets
22:38:13  <Supercheese> accepted_cargos: [[IRON, 8]];
22:38:20  <xQR> <-- hope i explained it correctly
22:39:33  <Bad_Brett> tried that as well, didn't work :(
22:40:28  <Supercheese> Here's some of my code that works
22:40:29  <Bad_Brett> ...and i tried it again, and like magic, it did
22:40:32  <Supercheese> oh
22:40:34  <Supercheese> nevermind lol
22:40:50  <Supercheese> :)
22:40:56  <Bad_Brett> i guess problem's solved... i must've forgotten to save or something like that
22:41:09  <Supercheese> yeah perhaps
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22:49:58  <planet> sorry for the inconvenience wrt #openttdcoop DevZone etc. The datacentre knows it has to take actions... currently it seems completely unreachable.
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22:51:52  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:55:35  <Zuu> xQR: Will need to get into trunk before the ScriptController:Break() function can be introduced. The patch is somewhat done, but I need to convince myself that I have implemented it in a sane way.
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23:00:40  <xQR> yeah i saw that dependency
23:00:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24533 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move position determination on minimap legend to separate function.
23:01:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24534 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Feature: Highlight industries on the smallmap when the mouse is over an entry in the legend.
23:02:03  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds interesting
23:02:13  <Supercheese> oooh, yes it does
23:02:21  <frosch123> not quite sure though :p
23:02:29  <frosch123> it does not exactly fit ottd
23:02:34  <frosch123> but firs was so confusing
23:02:42  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe :)
23:03:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i still have this open suggestion that the industry chain view gives you an industry list filter (not just a minimap filter)
23:04:06  <frosch123> it also needs a output/input selection
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23:16:35  <frosch123> night
23:16:38  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:16:47  <planet> night frosch...
23:16:52  <Bad_Brett> i think it sound like an excellent idea
23:17:23  <Bad_Brett> with 32 cargos and tons of industries, a tooltip would be really helpful
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23:33:01  <Simonn> Supercheese !!!!
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