Log for #openttd on 26th October 2012:
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06:26:21  <Terkhen> good morning
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06:46:17  <__ln__> snowy morning
06:46:31  <Markk> Indeed.
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06:49:54  <szaman> sunny morning
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06:59:02  <Terkhen> rainy here
07:20:48  <DDR> Night here.
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08:10:56  <NGC3982> MNIM: It's nothing unusual, too.
08:11:09  <NGC3982> They seem to lack strategic thinking all together
08:11:49  <NGC3982> I have an old school mate stationed with NATO outside of Somalia
08:12:15  <NGC3982> And he regularly talks about how the pirates doesn't seem to understand what they go up against.
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08:12:26  <NGC3982> Firing at canon housings with AK47's and stuff.
08:12:49  <NGC3982> It's trying to disarm a land mine by jumping on it
08:13:15  <Markk> Do it IRL!
08:13:59  <BadBrett> question: do the colors in a mask file matter or are they just "on/off"?
08:14:32  <MNIM> ah yes, but this time they weren't shooting at the battleship, just at the rigids.
08:14:59  <MNIM> ...which isn't too smart still since those still got a buttload of firepower.
08:19:46  <NGC3982> Indeed.
08:19:54  <NGC3982> Buttload in a literal sense
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08:27:21  <peter1138> BadBrett, yes, it's an 8 bit palette index, using the ttd palette.
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08:29:05  <BadBrett> yeah... so i guess the question is, what color should i set in the non-transparent areas?
08:29:45  <BadBrett> nevermind
08:31:59  <BadBrett> i deleted the grf cache and got the results i expected :)
08:32:33  <BadBrett> i thought it would notice when a gfx file had been modified though...
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08:37:29  <BadBrett> but for some reason the recouring won't work... do i have to write code for the palette swapping as well?
08:37:36  <BadBrett> *recoloring
08:37:53  <peter1138> grf cache?
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08:49:43  <planetmaker> did you enable re-colouring for that tile, BadBrett ?
08:49:48  <BadBrett> yes... when i create grf file with newer versions of nml, it's obvious that the sprites are only processed the first time... after that i can make minor changes and it will only take a coupe of seconds to generate the grf... i thought it had something to do with the "grf.cache"-file
08:50:30  <planetmaker> peter1138, nml implements a cache file for the individual sprites in order to (tremendously) speed up grf generation on subsequent runs
08:50:43  <peter1138> cool
08:50:43  <BadBrett> yep, it's a great feature
08:51:19  <planetmaker> like opengfx build time with one modified sprite from 45 minutes to 5 or so
08:51:28  * peter1138 waits for QC to update... i don't need too look at fat old naked people online when i can use a mirror
08:51:36  <planetmaker> :D
08:51:36  <peter1138> -o
08:52:01  <planetmaker> hm, still no update. He seems to have moved his update time to a later time of the day :-(
08:52:15  <BadBrett> this is a vehicle, do i have to enable re-colouring for those as well?
08:52:25  <peter1138> no
08:52:36  <peter1138> you're using the right palette indices?
08:54:05  <BadBrett> probably no :)
08:54:47  <peter1138>
08:54:58  <peter1138> you want the range marked company
08:55:50  <peter1138> i'm guessing that there's no graphics editing program that'll mix rgba and paletted layers :(
08:56:27  <BadBrett> yeah that's the one, thanks
08:59:19  <BadBrett> alright, so if i only use colors within that range, it should work properly?
09:00:08  <michi_cc> And index 0 (magic blue) for everything that should get no remap at all.
09:00:56  <BadBrett> yeah, i know...
09:02:44  <BadBrett> *crosses fingers that matlab will find the correct palette index automatically*
09:06:00  <BadBrett> yes! great success! thanks everyone :)
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09:17:33  <BadBrett> i guess that "patch company 2" is for the second company color?
09:21:12  <MNIM> you would guess correctly
09:24:22  <BadBrett> splendid
09:33:34  <nickshanks> Are there any plans to include higher resolution artwork in the OpenGFX base set?
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09:39:42  <nickshanks> Also, why can graphics-only NewGRFs not be enabled/disabled whilst playing a game?
09:40:14  <Terkhen> nickshanks: check zbase, it is a WIP
09:41:43  <Terkhen> the code of each NewGRF can depend on other NewGRFs, and they can react in unexpected ways if you change your NewGRF selection
09:42:36  <nickshanks> zBase has severe glitches
09:42:42  <Terkhen> mostly because the NewGRF spec were not designed to take removal/addition into account
09:43:34  <Terkhen> yes, it is a work in progress, please report any glitches that you find
09:43:39  <MNIM> and of course, we can NOT touch the newgrf spec!
09:43:44  <nickshanks> i was running the latest revision of zBase on top of trunk OpenTTD on Mac OS X, and many of the building's bases disappeared at the highest zoom
09:43:46  <peter1138> zbase is a WIP
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09:44:12  <MNIM> nickshanks: OSX? well thar's yer problem
09:44:16  <nickshanks> where should errors be reported?
09:45:04  <Ammler> or
09:45:07  <nickshanks> also, at standard zoom, OpenGFX looks better as the tiles aren't blurry
09:45:49  <Terkhen> MNIM: the most important thing that prevents changing the specs is that you would need to scrap all existing NewGRFs
09:46:03  <Ammler> be sure to have no other newgrf enabled and best is to report with screenshots
09:46:04  <Flygon> And you'd only make 0 from scrapping it
09:46:24  <Flygon> It's not really worth scrapping it, considering the assets that'd be wasted from doing so
09:46:33  <Flygon> </terriblehumour>
09:48:29  <MNIM> Terkhen: I am well aware, though I fail to see why we cannot make a new spec alongside of it.
09:49:29  <BadBrett> is there some way i can make a vehicle part invisible without using an empty spriteset?
09:49:38  <Terkhen> you can, but the old NewGRFs would not be compatible with the new ones
09:50:12  <MNIM> Correct, but as it stands there are plenty of newGRFs that are already incompatible with others.
09:50:29  <Terkhen> I doubt that NewGRF developers would appreciate all of their work being deprecated
09:51:15  <Flygon> I'm under the assumption that an OpenTTD client that can load both 'old style' GRF's and 'new style' GRF's is impossible?
09:51:19  <nickshanks> it sounds like what is needed is a new mod format designed to do everything that is desired, AND automated tools to convert between the old NewGRF format and the new one (which hopefully will be blessed with a better name)
09:51:39  <Terkhen> I'm speculating anyways, maybe someone can come up with some NewerGRF specs that do not have those problems or ^
09:51:42  <Flygon> eg. like how Microsoft included basic support for DOS apps 2k onwards?
09:52:27  <Flygon> Also, one really insane, stupid stupid stuid question nags in the back of my mind
09:52:40  <Flygon> Is the GRF format used by OpenTTD the same as Ragnarok Online's?
09:52:46  <BadBrett> in my opinion, it would not be wise to do any radical changes, considering the rage the removal of png loading caused
09:53:01  <MNIM> nick: automagic conversion would be neigh-on impossible
09:53:08  <nickshanks> why?
09:53:10  <Terkhen> Flygon: I'm assuming until proven otherwise that loading NewGRFs from both specs at the same time would be impossible, of course you could load both separatedly
09:53:18  <MNIM> BadBrett: well, let's be honest, /any/ change would enrage some
09:53:45  <Flygon> Terkhen: I'll just get an RO based GRF unpacker and see if it works on OTTD :P
09:53:59  <MNIM> one of the most important rules of the internet and life in general: no matter what you do, someone somewhere will be pissed off at you for doing it.
09:54:31  <Flygon> MNIM is right, so very right
09:55:37  <MNIM> Terkhen: 64bit OSes can load 32bit apps by having both systems in place and assuming an app is 32bit unless marked otherwise.
09:55:45  <BadBrett> MNIM: yeah... i didn't think the removal of png-loading was such a big deal... it took me an afternoon to write a script that converted all my work to the NewGRF format... but, the community still lost many great artists
09:56:39  <nickshanks> by the way, compiling OpenTTD on Mac was a painless "./configure && make"
09:57:14  <Terkhen> Flygon: I know nothing about that format but our NewGRF format is TTDPatch/OpenTTD specifix
09:58:13  <nickshanks> BadBrett: did you release your script for others to use?
09:58:40  <Flygon> Yeah, it fails to load
09:58:54  <BadBrett> nope, cause i'm using matlab, which most people don't use
09:59:09  <Flygon> RO's implementation was basically either a file that hosted files, and either stored them uncompressed or used basic ZIP compression...
09:59:15  <Terkhen> MNIM: the source of incompatibility would not be the formats themselves but their design; the old specs would still be designed to let any NewGRF affect any other
09:59:17  <__ln__> nickshanks: didn't you need to --disable-lzma and something else?
09:59:27  <Flygon> But, yeah, I cannae unpack with RO tools
09:59:37  <Terkhen> if the new specs prevent that by design...
09:59:40  <Flygon> I'll assume the naming is a coincidence :3
09:59:58  <nickshanks> __ln__: to build it? no, I didn't read any instructions. just configure and make
10:00:11  <nickshanks> what's lzma anyway
10:00:31  <Terkhen> it is not a trivial problem, there might be a way but from what I know about the NewGRF specs it is impossible
10:00:42  <Flygon> lzma is a form of compression, iirc
10:00:45  <Terkhen> I would be glad to be proven wrong
10:01:14  <Flygon> :D
10:02:02  <Flygon> Anyway, sorry for being a bother, Terkhen
10:03:22  <Terkhen> it wasn't a bother :P
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10:05:17  <peter1138> BadBrett, lost a lot of artists? unlikely as the whole thing was stalled long before we did that
10:06:23  <BadBrett> hmm maybe... like i said, i was one of those who didn't mind the change, but i know several people were quite upset
10:06:28  <peter1138> mostly cos none of them could agree on a license
10:06:58  <peter1138> the upset people didn't know why we'd done it
10:07:06  <peter1138> i guess they somehow assumed we did it to spite them
10:07:45  <Flygon> When focusing on a change such as this
10:08:05  <Flygon> Never, never only look at who was upset by it... always calculate whom was made happier from it, too
10:09:10  <BadBrett> the thing is that i still use the old nightly build to test many of the sprites i make
10:10:03  <BadBrett> and like i said earlier, converting it isn't that time consuming
10:10:11  <peter1138> actually, apart from the devs, i don't think anybody really knows why, as nobody has ever asked
10:11:23  <Flygon> So the situation is, the devs made changed the specifications for something, and this upset a lot of users
10:11:24  <BadBrett> you're probably right
10:11:32  <peter1138> also i get the blame for it even though it wasn't my doing :D
10:11:34  <Flygon> Partially because they weren't informed why
10:11:46  <Flygon> Soo... the devs involved weren't transparent enough?
10:12:04  <peter1138> i hate that word used like that
10:12:05  <Flygon> Or am I looking at this totally the wrong way?
10:12:08  <peter1138> transparent means see through
10:12:14  <Flygon> Yes
10:12:18  <peter1138> you can't see through me, i'm a solid being
10:12:18  <Flygon> I thought of using a different word...
10:12:24  <Flygon> But I couldn't think of any good ones
10:12:29  <Flygon> My English isn't very good
10:12:43  <peter1138> it's not?
10:13:08  <Flygon> I'm certainly not very skilled at speaking it :p
10:13:19  <peter1138> well it's a damn sight better than a lot of native speaker's english
10:13:21  <Flygon> Unfortunately, it's also the only language I'm good at communicating with, hahaha
10:13:25  <BadBrett> anyway, my point is, that doing radical changes to the grf system would (probably) not be a wise decision
10:13:27  <Flygon> I am a native speaker
10:13:31  <peter1138> oh
10:13:32  <peter1138> lol
10:13:37  <peter1138> well, still
10:13:42  <Markk> Flygon: Aren't you from Australia?
10:13:49  <Flygon> Yes
10:13:50  <peter1138> oh well, that's your problem :-)
10:13:56  <Markk> :D
10:13:58  <Flygon> But I'm translating everything into British
10:14:03  <Markk> British :3
10:14:08  <Flygon> And that makes it a tripe hard to get certain phrases across
10:14:17  <MNIM> Flygon: I don't think your english is that bad. Considering I think it of people quite often and fast, that's a compliment!
10:14:32  <__ln__> is your name Bruce?
10:14:48  <Flygon> Nah, I share my name with an American founding father
10:14:54  <Flygon> And I don't like it very much
10:15:11  <MNIM> also, yeah, your use of transparent was right, though I'm not sure if what you said is right. Peter was just being silly :P
10:15:12  <Flygon> So for the purposes of this discussion, my name is trademarked by Nintendo
10:15:22  <MNIM> 0.o
10:15:40  <__ln__> Gamecube?
10:15:49  <Markk> Wii!
10:15:57  <Flygon> If my name was Gamecube, I'd get it changed to Dolphin
10:16:17  <peter1138> anyway, it turns out the reasons were explained, but everyone still complained anyway
10:16:20  <peter1138> "everyone"
10:16:23  <Flygon> That puts me up from being named by a Bogan, to being named by a Stoner
10:16:30  <peter1138> obviously not actually everyone :)
10:16:46  <Flygon> peter1138: Okay, so, they were transparent
10:17:00  <BadBrett> nobody likes a bogan
10:17:25  <Flygon> Soo... a case of humans hating anything involving the deadly super evil reated-to-Hiter-and-communism C-word
10:17:29  <Flygon> Change
10:17:42  <planetmaker> Flygon, Rb even released a conversion script from old to new way. Still no-one could be bothered to employ it and make it use to release anything by means of it
10:17:47  <planetmaker> that imho speaks volumes
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10:17:54  <Flygon> planetmaker: Oh wow...
10:18:00  <Flygon> That's... yeah
10:18:10  <__ln__> can we change the topic to "English or Australian only"?
10:18:11  <Flygon> I'm surprised the users could be so irrational
10:18:20  <Flygon> The OpenTTD community is one of the nicest I've ever seen
10:18:37  <peter1138> yeah, i think they thought that because *we* the devs couldn't release anything, that meant they *the artists* couldn't either
10:18:43  <peter1138> which is kinda... odd
10:18:48  <peter1138> i might be wrong
10:19:20  <planetmaker> I just find it mega tedious to look at the license of every single sprite. I started with it somewhat but was so bored quickly...
10:19:34  <MNIM> I think the answer may be found in the fact that a lot of contributing people in the community may be considered 'socially hindered'
10:19:52  <planetmaker> it was enough fun having done a similar thing for newgrfs which then somewhat triggered the creation of bananas
10:20:04  <peter1138> MNIM, especially the devs
10:20:06  <planetmaker> (jointly with dihedral back in ye ol' days ;-) )
10:20:11  <MNIM> shit sure went bananas back then!
10:20:27  <Markk> Did you take a joint with dihedral?
10:20:31  <Markk> Or were you a couple?
10:20:36  <planetmaker> :D
10:20:43  <planetmaker> I've never met him in person
10:20:43  <dihedral> here
10:20:44  <dihedral> what?
10:20:46  <MNIM> lol, both would be pretty fun
10:20:49  <Markk> :D
10:20:56  <Flygon> I read that as 'never met him in prison'
10:20:59  <Flygon> Good job, Flygon
10:21:07  <planetmaker> Flygon, would also be true ;-)
10:21:13  <MNIM> exactly
10:21:22  <Markk> Flygon: :D
10:21:41  <planetmaker> <-- getting that table was... quite a bit communication needed
10:21:56  <planetmaker> as back then there was no way to conveniently obtain more than one newgrf (legally)
10:22:31  <dihedral> \o/ those were the days ;-)
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10:23:03  <planetmaker> I'm very happy to have bananas now... no desire to use any non-hassle-free newgrfs. whatever they may be
10:23:24  <MNIM> 0.0
10:23:28  <MNIM> speaking of newgrfs.
10:23:29  <Markk> I would like an apple.
10:23:44  <planetmaker> I have a pear
10:23:44  <dihedral> i think bananas is a huge step forward, and whoever does not publish their stuff there, misses out
10:23:50  <MNIM> I suddenly realized I don't think I have FISH standard on my games.
10:23:52  <MNIM> shame on me.
10:24:28  <planetmaker> yeah, not using FISH is a punishable crime, or should be :-P
10:24:36  <dihedral> ^^
10:24:46  <MNIM> ;)
10:24:52  * dihedral has no time for such things
10:24:55  <dihedral> :-(
10:25:02  <planetmaker> :-( we miss you, d
10:25:03  <MNIM> what things?
10:25:04  <planetmaker> dihedral,
10:25:13  <dihedral> what can i do you for?
10:25:34  <planetmaker> play games, write game control bot with nice web interface, ... :D
10:25:41  <dihedral> i know i know - you want grapes :-P
10:25:45  <Markk> Flygon: Have you heard of The Cat Empire?
10:25:49  <planetmaker> of course!
10:25:54  <Flygon> No
10:25:57  <dihedral> i want it too ...
10:25:59  <Markk> Aw.
10:25:59  <Flygon> Sorry
10:26:03  <Flygon> Why do you ask?
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10:26:14  <dihedral> yet currently spare time goes into wedding prep :-/
10:26:17  <Markk> Flygon: They're Austrailian, that's why I asked. :)
10:26:30  <planetmaker> hehe, good on ya, dihedral :-)
10:26:34  <Flygon> If they a TV show, they sound like they're funded by the ABC :p
10:26:38  <planetmaker> here or at the other side of the ocean?
10:26:46  <Markk> Flygon: A really nice ska band.
10:26:46  <dihedral> karlsruhe ;-)
10:27:02  <Flygon> Ska band?
10:27:42  <Markk> Flygon:
10:27:54  <Markk> Flygon: And they seem really awesome live:
10:28:09  <__ln__> whose wedding?
10:28:22  <dihedral> mine
10:28:34  <__ln__> oh
10:28:41  <Flygon> Can't watch videos at the moment, sorry x:
10:28:47  <Markk> Okey
10:28:54  <dihedral> sorry to break it to you via irc __ln__
10:28:57  <dihedral> :-D
10:29:12  <dihedral> it just would not have worked out with us :-P
10:29:29  <MNIM> oh? ska?
10:29:44  * MNIM flees to a certain evil site to illegally acquire
10:30:31  <Flygon> I don't really listen to much in the way of music
10:30:32  <Flygon> Sorry
10:31:19  <Markk> ah
10:31:19  <Markk> That could explain it then. :)
10:31:30  <Flygon> This does have a fantastic cover, however :D
10:33:30  <Markk> Die Suche nach dem Zauberstab von Demnos in die Sauerkraut.
10:34:43  <MNIM>
10:34:48  <MNIM> speaking of covers!
10:35:47  <Flygon> By cover, I meant
10:35:49  <Flygon> The art
10:35:58  <Flygon> Told you there's a language barrier :D
10:37:12  <MNIM> lol
10:38:45  <MNIM> anyway. RBF rules
10:40:10  <__ln__> what was the australian word for a pond?
10:40:20  <Flygon> Depends
10:40:25  <Flygon> What year is it
10:40:27  <Flygon> And what country?
10:40:36  <MNIM> well, australia, obviously.
10:40:41  <MNIM> and the year is 2012.
10:40:48  <Flygon> What country is the pound from?
10:40:50  <MNIM> not long to go any more before the apocalypse!
10:40:59  <__ln__> not pound, pond.
10:41:00  <MNIM> Flygon: pond, not pound.
10:41:06  <Flygon> Oh
10:41:06  <MNIM> ...lolninja'd
10:41:07  <Flygon> Derp
10:41:16  <Flygon> Distracted by TV
10:41:18  <MNIM> that's one word that does not get an extra U!
10:41:27  <Flygon> Okay
10:41:33  <Flygon> We call it pond
10:41:52  <planetmaker> ...crying cockles and mussles, alive, alive, oh!...
10:41:57  <MNIM> no sheet?
10:42:52  <Flygon> Sorry for getting so confused
10:45:00  <planetmaker> we can only excuse that, if you build us a station where you pickup either 100k goods or 100k passengers a month.
10:46:00  <Flygon> What's the max station spread?
10:46:04  <planetmaker> 64
10:46:18  <Flygon> I'm too lazy
10:46:27  <Markk> Can you by somehow expand the station spread?
10:46:33  <planetmaker> then we can't excuse your confusion, I'm afraid ;-)
10:46:41  <Markk> (By more than 64 tiles)
10:46:48  <planetmaker> Markk, not beyond 64 unless you change source code
10:46:54  <Markk> oh
10:46:57  <Flygon> planetmaker: What if Confuse Ray?
10:47:18  <planetmaker> err no parse :-)
10:47:54  <Flygon> Drat
10:48:03  <Flygon> This guy is invulnerable
10:48:12  <planetmaker> if it's a name it doesn't tell me anything :-)
10:48:24  <Flygon> And it doesn't help I keep reading his name as planetbuster
10:48:33  <planetmaker> :D
10:48:34  <dada__> I once made a map with too low snow line height, meaning I couldn't make farms. but I didn't want to start over. so I recompiled openttd with the snow check turned off...
10:49:00  <Flygon> dada__: You can get population growth without food
10:49:00  <planetmaker> I'm not a Vogon. I'm building them... I'm looking for new nice creaks and fjords right now ;-)
10:49:06  <dada__> re: recompiling openttd
10:49:17  <Flygon> You just need a lot of money and patience
10:49:19  <Flygon> Basically
10:49:23  <dada__> Flygon, I thought on subarctic it was impossible without food? or maybe it's just really really sl ow?
10:49:26  <Flygon> Constantly select build ew buildings
10:49:30  <Flygon> new*
10:49:33  <dada__> lol ah I see
10:49:39  <dada__> I prefer my solution hehe
10:49:53  <Flygon> Less money spent?
10:49:54  <planetmaker> and if you select snowling too high you don't get wood ;-)
10:50:09  <Flygon> Also, I have a bone to pick with OTTD's representation of Australian money
10:50:13  <planetmaker> *snow line
10:50:17  <dada__> ah I see
10:50:21  <Flygon> The Australian Pound hasn't been used since the 1960s
10:50:34  <dada__> well, openttd games start in 1950 by default :)
10:50:35  <planetmaker> he :-)
10:50:40  <Flygon> ...
10:50:44  <Flygon> FRIDGE BRILLIANCE
10:50:47  <dada__> hehe
10:51:05  <Flygon> But what if a game was done starting from 1990?
10:51:23  <dada__> I forget, does the currency "evolve" into the euro, when you use a european currency and go past 2002?
10:51:31  <planetmaker> yes
10:51:42  <dada__> maybe something similar can be done for the australian dollar/pound
10:51:45  <planetmaker> for those currencies which have a euro introduction rate defined
10:51:48  <Flygon> Ideally
10:51:55  <dada__> I say, propose a patch
10:52:02  <dada__> should not be too hard to program, most likely
10:52:10  <Flygon> It helps we just went from Pound to Dollar, as part of decimalization
10:52:16  <planetmaker> suggesting patches is easy. writing... is the difficult part
10:52:24  <dada__> well I meant write
10:52:44  <peter1138> good job ottd has no mention of australian currency at all
10:52:51  <__ln__> getting patches accepted is the nearly impossible part
10:53:07  <__ln__> do australians use money?
10:53:14  <peter1138> no they use plastic
10:53:15  <Flygon> Yes
10:53:28  <Flygon> Plastic Fantastic!
10:53:34  <Flygon> PIN is annoying, though :B
10:53:35  <dada__> they use snake oil. they've got plenty of snakes, after all
10:54:04  <dada__> here in the netherlands we really pay with clogs and tulips. the whole euro thing? just for tourists.
10:54:22  <Flygon> Oh
10:54:22  <Flygon> Derp
10:54:26  <peter1138> planetmaker, are going to have to add a "switch away from euro date" at some point? :p
10:54:29  <Flygon> In OTTD, it's listed as Australian Shilling
10:54:30  *** Zeknurn [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:54:36  <planetmaker> who knows.
10:54:37  <peter1138> Flygon, no it's not
10:54:39  <dada__> maybe a "complete monetary system collapse" option
10:54:55  <Flygon> I'll take a screenie
10:55:04  <dada__> Flygon/ peter1138 could there be a discrepancy between UK/AUS/US english?
10:55:19  <planetmaker> dada__, not only could. There is
10:55:21  <peter1138> Flygon, austria isn't australia. you should no.
10:55:23  <peter1138> KNOW
10:55:24  <peter1138> ffs
10:55:36  <dada__> I've seen weird bugs before resulting from selecting either UK/US english when apparently the testers only used one of them
10:55:39  <dada__> not in o penttd
10:55:42  <dada__> but in other software
10:56:03  <Flygon> Oh
10:56:03  <Flygon> Wow
10:56:06  <Flygon> Wooooooooow
10:56:08  <Flygon> All this time
10:56:12  <Flygon> I was reading it
10:56:13  <Flygon> As Australian
10:56:24  <Flygon> I am so stupid, hahaha
10:56:24  <dada__> up until a few versions ago, Google Drive was named ".app" if you used UK english because it literally had an empty translation string (the US version of course was proper)
10:56:26  <planetmaker> looooool
10:57:42  <peter1138> anyone fancy making currency rates non-integer? heh
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10:58:24  <Flygon> I can see that leading to situations where buying a locomotive would somehow cost ,784.324238423
10:58:42  <dada__> I think it would be fun to have a "demo" mode in openttd. where after you don't select anything in the main screen for a while, an AI starts editing the start map.
10:58:56  <Flygon> ...that would be pretty cool
10:59:11  <NGC3982> Behind the menu screen
10:59:29  <dada__> yeah, preferably with the tools/menus/etc shown (unlike the regular AIs)
10:59:38  <dada__> though non-interactive
10:59:49  <NGC3982> Like a recorded play, but without mouse and stuff?
10:59:49  <planetmaker> a GS could do that
11:00:04  <dada__> perhaps a recorded play, although an AI would be particularly neat :)
11:00:06  <planetmaker> though showing GUI in main menu screen is not feasible w/o patch
11:00:07  <NGC3982> Actually, this is not a bad idea, at all
11:00:20  <NGC3982> Just like the old video games <3
11:00:43  <dada__> yeah, I've got openttd running on a computer elsewhere in my room and I hear the start map playing, and it made me think of old video games being on display in the store :)
11:00:54  <NGC3982> Exactly
11:01:32  <Flygon> Even more interesting, would be a randomized menu map
11:01:36  <dada__> a prerecorded play could be useful, the play could show something simple like the construction of a coal/power line, then it would also have value for newbies
11:01:37  <Flygon> Perhaps based off actual cities?
11:02:03  <dada__> well, maybe next year I can find the time to start experimenting with the source..
11:02:06  <planetmaker> Flygon, for the stable release branches we so far had an annual titlegame contest...
11:02:18  <Flygon> Ooh, interesting
11:02:22  <dada__> yeah the contests rule, you should look them up. lots of great submissions
11:02:26  <dada__> on the forum
11:02:41  <Flygon> I should
11:02:47  <planetmaker>
11:02:52  <planetmaker> ^^ full contest ;-)
11:02:56  <Flygon> I've admittedly paid lots more attention to the game, than the community
11:02:58  <planetmaker> of the last time
11:03:06  <dada__> yeah, me too
11:03:17  <dada__> next time I should give the contest a shot
11:03:36  <planetmaker>
11:04:24  <Flygon> I'd never be good for a contest
11:04:40  <Flygon> I'm only good at designing things that look utilitarian
11:04:55  <planetmaker> dada__, you can already start it... the rules won't change: No NewGRFs, no AIs. No giant map (size < ~150k)
11:04:58  <Flygon> These displayed ones are very snazzy
11:05:02  <dada__> this seems exactly like the type of thing I'd like, all I ever do in openttd is change the landscape and micromanage all sorts of tiny things for aesthetic purposes
11:05:13  <planetmaker> Flygon, you can totally design the map and everything. All cheats allowed ;-)
11:06:35  <Flygon> Again... I'm not very good at making things not look utilitarian :p
11:06:39  <planetmaker> hm, I should take home my laptop and ... add some titlescreens to our screenshot page.
11:10:50  <Terkhen> peter1138: for my own sake, I hope we do not need the switch back from euro patch :P
11:11:18  <Flygon> planetmaker: The extent of my creativity :p
11:11:41  <dada__> wonder if there's any interest in a high quality keyboard (with cherry mx keyswitches) that's designed with openttd in mind (hotkeys marked on the keys, perhaps icons on the F1-F12 keys)
11:11:51  <Flygon> Except, the thing is
11:12:05  <Flygon> It's not very representative of the game... because no waypoints for the secondary bays
11:14:27  <dada__> yeah, and remember, no newgrfs
11:15:40  <dada__> I don't know when the top bar was moved to the center by default but aaa I'm incapable of playing unless it's on the left side
11:15:55  <Flygon> Yeah, that too :p
11:15:58  <Flygon> Problem is
11:16:01  <dada__> pet peeves, I guess it's a sign of having played a game too much
11:16:01  <Flygon> I love Trams, hahaha
11:16:24  <dada__> I like trams in principle but they're a bit more work to get right than buses so I ignore them mostly
11:16:27  <planetmaker> dada__, hotkeys are configurable
11:16:45  <Flygon> Really?
11:16:48  <planetmaker> and the actual key may change on your actual (localized) layout
11:16:50  <dada__> planetmaker yeah, that's true, pretty sure most people just use the defaults though
11:16:59  <Flygon> I always saw them as easier and more effective than busses
11:17:10  <planetmaker> Flygon, hotkeys.cfg
11:17:16  <planetmaker> next to your openttd.cfg
11:17:21  <dada__> a custom keyboard would use the US ANSI layout so it ought to be consistent
11:17:27  <Flygon> I meant the Trams vs Buses
11:17:29  <Flygon> Not hotkeys :p
11:17:31  <dada__> as long as it is configured as such
11:17:33  <planetmaker> urgs. /me wouldn't use a US layout
11:17:43  <dada__> it's the One True Layout :)
11:17:48  <dada__> which do you use, planetmaker?
11:17:52  <Flygon> I'm Aussie
11:17:54  <planetmaker> German. Obviously
11:17:54  <Flygon> So, US layout for me
11:18:00  <dada__> aha
11:18:06  <Flygon> Oh, German
11:18:11  <Flygon> You sent us Trams once
11:18:15  <dada__> for some reason the dutch keyboard layout is almost identical to the US one, so it's not difficult for me to switch
11:18:16  <Flygon> They're... alright
11:18:24  <planetmaker> other keyboards slow me down tremendously. I write 10-fingered and know all keys there without looking. Not so with other layouts
11:18:42  <dada__> in japan I rode an amazing german tram from ~1890
11:18:47  <planetmaker> And dutch and US differ quite a bit with the extra keys
11:18:57  <planetmaker> in my experience. Yes, I used both
11:19:11  <Flygon> dada__: Wow... what sort of Tram?
11:19:16  <Flygon> Cable? Electric?
11:19:40  <planetmaker> but both are better than a French or Belgium keyboard layout ;-)
11:19:41  <Flygon> Bendigo Tramways seem to love stockpiling assorted out Trams that can run on 600V
11:19:43  <dada__> well there is a "proper" dutch keyboard layout that's slightly different, but in practive every keyboard that is sold is almost identical to the US layout. in fact if you configure it as a US keyboard, it still works 100% correctly.
11:20:14  <planetmaker> of course you can configure the layout software wise... but then the naming on the keyboard is off ;-)
11:20:16  <dada__> if you're a store and you get the "proper" dutch keyboard layout that was designed at some point, nobody will buy it, they'll probably think it's german or UK or something
11:21:20  <dada__> here's an example of the keyboard "everybody" has, it's basically identical to US ANSI except the enter key is different and the ~ and \ keys are placed elsewhere
11:21:26  <planetmaker> and US fails to provide support for the special characters used in European languages. especially ÀöÌß etc
11:21:43  <Terkhen> Or ñ
11:21:46  <planetmaker> ^^
11:21:47  <dada__> I guess that's why the dutch keyboard is so similar to US, dutch doesn't have that many special characters
11:22:00  <dada__> I like osx's special chars input method
11:22:07  <V453000> ř!
11:22:16  <planetmaker> dada__, sucks, compared to direct input of the chars
11:22:44  <dada__> yeah, that's true
11:22:47  <Flygon> Try typing Japanese
11:22:59  <dada__> I've actually been studying japanese for years
11:22:59  <planetmaker> and it's not exactly understandable why apple needs to define its separate keyboard layout
11:23:16  <planetmaker> Flygon, yes. and? Of course there it depends which script you type in :-)
11:23:20  <peter1138> so they can sell their own special keyboards
11:23:30  <planetmaker> But these asiatic language indeed need special input methods
11:23:33  <dada__> it's not a special/separate keyboard layout, it's just the way you input special characters in the OS
11:23:52  <dada__> the apple keyboard with dutch layout is the same as any other keyboard you buy here
11:23:52  <Flygon> Point is
11:24:04  <Flygon> From what I gather, Japanese is unfriendly to type in x3
11:24:32  <planetmaker> dada__, also @ at the same place?
11:24:55  <dada__> planetmaker: yes, on every keyboard I have and every keyboard I've ever seen
11:25:21  <dada__> but it's true that a "proper" dutch keyboard layout exists that d oes have the " in place of the @ plus some other changes, but it doesn't exist except in theory
11:26:51  <dada__> Flygon: depends. there's romaji typing and kana typing. kana is particularly fast. I prefer romaji myself because I know the layout better of course. japanese is a very trim and compact language. so it's not that slow to type.
11:27:03  * Flygon nod
11:27:05  <Flygon> All I know is
11:27:14  <Flygon> My main experience with Japanese is Pixiv
11:27:16  <dada__> you type a word's phonetic characters, then you press space and 9 out of 10 times it turns into the right word
11:27:23  <Flygon> And the resulting inability to translate for in such
11:28:06  <dada__> the keyboard I designed for myself actually has kana characters, I don't use them though
11:28:44  <Flygon> You can get keyboards cust- actually, I'm not too surprised, heh
11:29:04  <dada__> it's a company called WASD Keyboards
11:29:18  <dada__> you send them a PDF (or you use their crappy designer) and they laser etch it onto the keys
11:29:25  <dada__> very high quality
11:29:59  <dada__> very pleased with how it turned out
11:30:03  <Flygon> Nice
11:30:37  <dada__> plus, they have high quality cherry mx keyswitches.
11:30:44  <peter1138> i hate straight keyboards now
11:30:44  <dada__> german quality!
11:30:57  <peter1138> which colour cherry?
11:30:58  <dada__> I picked cherry mx blue in case anyone is interested. tactile feedback
11:31:01  <Markk> My keyboards are bi.
11:32:08  <dada__> I wish my keyboard was bi. maybe I could start a relationship with it.
11:34:28  <Markk> :)
12:19:46  <nickshanks> okay, irc catchup time: Flygon: the names of the american founding fathers were never recorded because they had no writing system that we have discovered: ; why do people on IRC channels insist on things like English only? as an almost monoglot englishman I HATE it when people say that. MNIM: speaking of fantastic covers, how about these:
12:19:46  <nickshanks>
12:20:33  <Flygon> I meant the American founding fathers
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12:23:16  <nickshanks> no, I presume you mean Those Traitorous Bastards from the 13 colonies
12:25:12  <Flygon> Ah
12:25:14  <nickshanks> is there a Scenario where you have to build rail "roads" over the tops of teepees and infect children with smallpox, and kill off all the bison?
12:25:19  <Flygon> Derp
12:25:29  <nickshanks> that would be cool...
12:25:30  <Flygon> Depends
12:26:08  <Flygon> Is there a scenario where you snatch Aboriginal children then breed them with White people in an attempt to get rid of the Aboriginals?
12:26:19  <Flygon> The British came, they saw, they colonized
12:26:42  <nickshanks> those people were evil
12:26:50  <nickshanks> but they weren't traitors
12:27:12  <Flygon> Point is
12:27:21  <Flygon> In the grand scheme of thing
12:27:24  <nickshanks> hang on, you're in australia
12:27:26  <Flygon> Everyone's a bitch
12:27:30  <nickshanks> can I use you as my proxy?
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12:29:18  <nickshanks> my goal is to rid australia and new zealand of white people by prohibiting additional immigration, and handing back land to aboriginals
12:30:01  <nickshanks> i have emailed many leading political figures in both countries but am making little progress
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12:35:57  <Simonn> sup
12:36:22  <Flygon> nickshanks: I doubt it'd work
12:36:27  <Flygon> Yo, Simonn
12:36:34  <Simonn>
12:36:35  <Simonn> yoyoyo
12:37:15  <Flygon> Yoyoyoyo
12:37:31  * Flygon loa- woah!
12:37:59  <Flygon> "I am thoroughly impressed" is an understatement
12:40:05  <nickshanks> that map is insane
12:40:32  <Flygon> Nice understatement :p
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12:41:01  <Simonn> pff I screwed up a lot that I'm trying to fix now
12:41:09  <Simonn> it is my first map and now I understand better how to make junctions and stuff
12:41:17  <Simonn> traffic gets stuck quite often sometimes
12:41:40  <nickshanks> where do screenshots get saved?
12:41:55  <Simonn> Documents, openttd
12:41:56  <Simonn> in that map
12:42:05  <Simonn> C:\Users\....\Documents\OpenTTD
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12:43:35  <nickshanks> Windows has a ~/Saved Games/ directory. Wy doesn't OpenTTD use it?
12:44:26  <nickshanks> <- my biggest game so far
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12:44:56  <Simonn> oh but I play in the future
12:45:01  <Simonn> it's easier, and I made my towns bigger
12:45:37  <peter1138> i have a ~/Saved Games/ directory
12:45:40  <nickshanks> why would it be easier?
12:45:41  <peter1138> and there's absolutely nothing in it
12:45:52  <peter1138> so it's not just openttd that doesn't use it
12:45:58  <nickshanks> peter: well there ought to be
12:45:59  <Flygon> Wait
12:46:02  <Flygon> Your first map?
12:46:10  <nickshanks> Flygon: my only map
12:46:39  <Flygon>'ve never done another OTTD game?
12:46:48  <nickshanks> no
12:46:54  <nickshanks> and this one i had to start again
12:47:07  <Flygon> Oh, wait
12:47:08  <Flygon> Derp
12:47:12  <nickshanks> because Hatton town council won't let me build a bus stop in their town
12:47:16  <Flygon> II misread who said it was their only map
12:47:25  <Flygon> I thought it was Simonn! xD
12:47:34  <Flygon> TODO: Read
12:47:35  <MNIM> nickshanks: neato, those covers.
12:47:39  <Simonn> it is my only map
12:47:44  <Flygon> ...
12:47:45  <Flygon> Wait
12:47:49  <Flygon> Now I am even more confused
12:47:56  <Simonn> I have been playing on the map I showed for like I dnno 2 weeks
12:47:59  <nickshanks> both of us have only played once
12:48:07  <Flygon> Seriously?
12:48:33  <nickshanks> well i only downloaded it a few days ago and I am at work
12:48:56  <nickshanks> so it is paused most of the time :)
12:49:10  <MNIM> hehehe.
12:49:24  * MNIM is actually working on a massive and varied alpine map
12:49:37  <nickshanks> speaking of which, can we change the icon to Notepad or something? ;)
12:50:12  <Flygon> Why not control OpenTTD remotely from your work computer, to your home computer?
12:50:15  <Flygon> Or, even better
12:50:21  <Flygon> Run your computer as a multiplayer server
12:50:38  <Flygon> Then play it from work, by connecting to your home computer, in spare time...
12:50:52  <Flygon> Presuming MP could be modified to allow pausing
12:51:08  <Simonn> I make 451 million profit a month
12:51:12  <Simonn> I mean year
12:51:13  <Simonn> lol
12:52:32  <Yexo> MP already allows pausing
12:52:37  <Flygon> Ah, goodie
12:52:42  <Flygon> Sorry, haven't played very much MP
12:52:53  <Yexo> it doesn't allow fast-forward
12:53:03  <Yexo> but that's a different issue and unlikely to change
12:53:48  <nickshanks> yexo: if all players agree to FF for a specific period, it might be workable
12:54:14  <Yexo> fast-forward is "as fast as you computer can compute everything". That directly comflicts with running on different computers
12:54:37  <nickshanks> is it not a client-server game?
12:54:55  <Yexo> all clients and also the server compute everything
12:55:35  <nickshanks> I would have assumed the server could just update the clients every now and then
12:55:36  <Yexo> there are way too much changes to the state to send only those changes over the network, so instead only "commands" are send and all calculations are duplicated
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12:56:02  <nickshanks> "oh BTW, a meteor destroyed your town"
12:57:52  <peter1138> anyone ever done a "distance-length" patch? :p
13:05:29  <nickshanks> question: there are four equi-distant stations A, B C and D. There is a passenger at B who wants to get to C. A and D are train/bus stations and B and C are bus stops ferrying people to A and D respectivly. do I get paid for the total distance the passenger travels or only the distance between B and C?
13:06:17  <planetmaker> you get money for the distance as the bird flys between the starting and the ending stations
13:06:41  <planetmaker> *birds fly
13:06:44  <nickshanks> ok
13:06:54  <nickshanks> bird flies even :)
13:08:31  <__ln__> is there a newgrf with birds, or flies
13:08:45  <planetmaker> there's surely one with flies
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13:13:40  <krinn> hi, sometimes creating a sign fail, redoing the same command and parameters again works sometimes and fail some other times. Error report is always "ERR_NONE". What are possible conditions to met sign creation failure ?
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13:19:22  <NGC3982> "The fishing grounds don't produce fish from passengers, if that's what you're thinking."
13:19:25  <NGC3982> Harr.
13:20:07  <NGC3982> Does the FIRS (0.7.5) Fishing Grounds production increase when goods is transported?
13:20:12  <NGC3982> (Like the other industries)
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13:53:37  <BadBrett> When I reverse the direction of Loco+Tender, the Tender gets the first position... I made a dirty workaround by using the "direction" variable, but surely there must be a way to reverse the entire chain and not just the parts...?
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14:15:49  <Terkhen> bbl
14:19:07  <planetmaker> BadBrett, articulated vehicles reverse normally like other vehicles. Unless you do funky positioning magic which does the wrong thing [TM]
14:19:46  <planetmaker> don't make use of any variable to control display of the vehicles and it will work.
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14:47:19  <BadBrett> thanks for the answer... strange, i didn't even use any switches.
14:47:39  <BadBrett> perhaps i need to set more props on the articulated parts or something like that
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14:52:40  <Rubidium> krinn: might you be in a test scope?
14:54:03  <Rubidium> krinn: there are three reasons to reject a sign:
14:54:20  <Rubidium> 1) you have so many signs the pool is full (probably 64k)
14:54:30  <Rubidium> 2) you have an empty text for the sign
14:54:44  <Rubidium> 3) the text for the sign, in UTF-8 characters, is too long
14:55:50  <Rubidium> all give an error
14:56:04  <Rubidium> oh, there's also the tile being invalid
14:56:08  <krinn> yep but all 3 are not present
14:56:20  <Rubidium> nevertheless, I reckon you're in a test scope
14:57:19  <Rubidium> it's the most logical reason
14:57:30  <krinn> you mean in aitestmode ?
14:57:42  <Rubidium> yes
14:58:04  <krinn> no
14:58:24  <krinn> the function sometimes fail, and redoing it with 0 context change make it success
14:59:10  <Rubidium> then please create the smallest possible test case and file a bug report with that test case
14:59:51  <krinn> it's too hard for test case, as it's not predictible
15:00:38  <Rubidium> well, if it's a bug in OpenTTD, then you should be able to trigger it when you just loop creating signs
15:00:44  <krinn> i have a log showing it: 1st time fail, redo then with 2nd time + grab error message
15:01:18  <krinn> dbg: [script] [12] [I] Ready to send command ? false
15:01:18  <krinn> dbg: [script] [7] [E] SCP: ERROR building sign 34 len=14 data=?q"{q'!\q"qing
15:01:18  <krinn> dbg: [script] [12] [I] SCP: Status update: signPoolID=12432 SignID=144 Command=0 Sender=12 Receiver=16 State=5 Index=0
15:01:18  <krinn> dbg: [script] [7] [E] SCP: ERROR 2nd try building sign 34 len=14 data=?q"{q'!\q"qing error=ERR_NONE
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15:05:56  <krinn> you may note that the BuildSign function should return a signID if working and an error on failure
15:06:30  <krinn> i get the error while checking the sign with <if (!AISign.IsValidSign(id))>
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16:18:07  <krinn> is offline or it's just me ?
16:18:21  <planetmaker> it's currently down for maintenance
16:18:36  <krinn> ah ok
16:18:46  <planetmaker> sorry for the inconvenience :-(
16:18:53  <krinn> only the web or ssh too ?
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16:19:13  <planetmaker> whole VM
16:19:20  <planetmaker> maintenance on the root server
16:19:21  <Ammler> up again
16:19:46  <planetmaker> not for me...
16:19:57  <krinn> nope
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16:23:10  <DanMacK> How long is it expected to be down?
16:23:45  <planetmaker> a matter of a few more minutes. Hopefully
16:24:49  <Ammler> DanMacK: was it ever down? :-P
16:25:33  <DanMacK> Lol
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16:38:51  <BadBrett> it doesn't work. i'm clueless. it would be much appreciated if someone could take look at it:
16:39:06  <BadBrett>
16:40:23  <BadBrett> Here's a picture of the issue:
16:40:24  <BadBrett>
16:41:45  <Eddi|zuHause> have you compared with what i did in CETS?
16:42:23  <BadBrett> no... i couldn't seem to find the nml for CETS
16:42:43  <BadBrett> and the server is down right now, right?
16:43:13  <planetmaker> not right
16:43:16  <planetmaker> anymore :-)
16:43:49  <BadBrett> good
16:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause> "the nml" for CETS is a little tricky
16:44:29  <BadBrett> yeah. but i'm not even doing any fancy stuff right now, i'm just using two spritsets
16:44:37  <BadBrett> no switches or anything
16:45:03  <BadBrett> but for some reason the two parts don't switch places when i reverse the train
16:45:11  <BadBrett> only the sprites are fliped, not the chain
16:45:14  <planetmaker> nmlc ERROR: Image file "gfxbpp\Trains\Train_1\z2\T1A1P1F1_z2.png": File doesn't exist
16:45:16  <Eddi|zuHause> you probably messed up with the 8 sprites for the direction
16:45:43  <planetmaker> oh... you use backslash...
16:45:45  <planetmaker> use slash
16:45:47  <Eddi|zuHause> the sprites for the opposite direction probably need to be switched around for the two vehicles
16:47:25  <BadBrett> yeah i thought of that, but that basically means that the chain actually isn't flipped
16:48:25  <Ammler> nuts has also very nice 1tile engines
16:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause> BadBrett: this is a "very early" stage of what i used in CETS
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16:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause> some parts are obsolete, because new variables have been introduced and behaviour has been fixed
16:51:20  <BadBrett> thanks! i'll read through it
16:52:27  <BadBrett> alright, i switched the first halves of the spritesets and now it works... but i'm still a bit confused, because this pretty much means that the vehicle can't be flipped, only the graphics
16:53:41  <planetmaker> hm, interesting
16:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause> BadBrett: the first vehicle is always the first
16:55:37  <planetmaker> BadBrett, you surely messed up just the order of the real sprites. The bad looking thing has nothing to do with the train reversing. It also looks broken when it just drives the other direction
16:57:28  <Eddi|zuHause> BadBrett: the final NML of CETS can be viewed here:
16:57:40  <Eddi|zuHause> (very large file)
16:57:46  <Terkhen> hello
16:57:58  <BadBrett> thanks!
16:58:01  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a mostly autogenerated file
16:58:09  <BadBrett> yeah i understand that :)
16:58:52  <BadBrett> but did i really mess up the order of the sprites? i realise that the error can be avoided by swapping the first halves of the spritesets...
16:59:01  <planetmaker> BadBrett, graphics-wise imho it's not an excellent idea to make a solid vehicle bend in the middle, though
16:59:04  <Eddi|zuHause> if you have a build environment, you could check out the intermediate .gnml files
16:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> which may be more easily understood
16:59:45  <BadBrett> but if the chain is flipped, the front sprites should always be in the front (which isn't the case here)
17:00:54  <BadBrett> anyway, it doesn't really matter, i'll just modify some lines of code :)
17:02:01  <planetmaker> BadBrett, consider the boilder one vehicle and the cabin or coal stuff the other.
17:02:11  <planetmaker> keep sprites for one for one vehicle and sprites for the other to the other
17:03:40  <BadBrett> yes...
17:04:06  <BadBrett> Planetmaker: It's only a prototype... I'm going to add enough turning angles so that it will be seamless
17:04:21  <BadBrett> hopefully it will look nice in the end
17:04:26  <BadBrett> (with a real model)
17:06:05  <Eddi|zuHause> BadBrett: this is the way how i sliced up my sprites:
17:06:19  <Eddi|zuHause> (warning: may cause headaches)
17:06:46  <BadBrett> nice! much appreciated!
17:08:05  <BadBrett> how many parts do you recommend?
17:08:29  <Eddi|zuHause> BadBrett: and this is how it's used in spritesets and switches:
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17:09:07  <Eddi|zuHause> BadBrett: i use 3 parts
17:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause> means i can do turning in 3 steps
17:09:47  <BadBrett> yeah
17:09:49  <Eddi|zuHause> which appears to me as the least problematic solution
17:10:11  <BadBrett> ok, good to know
17:10:24  <BadBrett> 3 graphic parts as well?
17:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> but this may well be different if you want to optimise it for 4x zoom
17:11:37  <Eddi|zuHause> the "parts" are tricky. in the depot/vehiclelist the front part draws the whole vehicle, in turns, the middle part draws the whole vehicle, and in straights the vehicle is sliced into each part separately
17:12:29  <Eddi|zuHause> the parts that are invisible use the "inv_dummy_group" in above file
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17:14:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the front part has "SLICE == -1", the middle part "SLICE == 0" and the back part "SLICE == 1". in theory that is extendable to more slices, but i never tested that
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17:16:08  <Eddi|zuHause> the above file has a vehicle of length 16 (full tile), the first part is 0 to 4, (i.e. length 4) the second part is 4 to 12 (i.e. length 8) and the third part 12 to 16 (i.e. length 4)
17:16:36  <Eddi|zuHause> there are also files for shorter vehicles, just change the number in the filename
17:17:05  <Eddi|zuHause> note that the files are from an older version of CETS, because they are now also autogenerated
17:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause> BadBrett: how the different vehicle lengths are sliced can be seen here in the "parts =" line:
17:19:05  <Eddi|zuHause> below that is an explanation of the magic offsets
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17:25:40  <BadBrett> thanks a lot, it will be of great help!
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17:45:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24630 trunk/src/lang/hungarian.txt (2012-10-26 17:45:08 UTC)
17:45:16  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:17  <DorpsGek> hungarian - 11 changes by IPG
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18:18:19  <andythenorth> what, not greetings :|
18:21:30  <peter1138> feck off yer twat
18:21:36  <peter1138> <3
18:23:09  <andythenorth> ah
18:23:12  <andythenorth> you must be english
18:24:03  <peter1138> surely not
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18:28:55  <Wolf01> hello o/
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18:45:13  <planetmaker> hello andythenorth :-)
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18:50:10  <andythenorth> lo planetmaker
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19:03:42  <planetmaker> andythenorth, which file(s) should I look at?
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19:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to "english people are always polite"?
19:59:21  <andythenorth> eh?
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19:59:35  <TyrHeimdal> didn't know that was a thing :P
19:59:38  <andythenorth> english people are only polite when they hate you with every fibre of their being
19:59:43  <andythenorth> lo DanMacK
19:59:49  <andythenorth> come to bask in the glory of your sprites :)
19:59:57  <TyrHeimdal> andythenorth: that's what I heard as well ^^
20:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that must be why they always appear polite to germans :p
20:01:51  <andythenorth> well perhaps :)
20:01:59  <andythenorth> or maybe that's genuine
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20:34:17  <TyrHeimdal> Supercheese: what tablet?
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20:42:18  <drac_boy> know this might be a bit ot but while clearing out my excessive magazines I found a rather unusual photo that I can't find online so .. might try scan it later but .. could anyone believe it if a little tank steam locomotive was given the right of the way over a HST train? :)
20:42:56  <drac_boy> the title for this photo sure is a good one.. 'high speed train meets moderate speed engine' .. heh heh
20:42:57  <andythenorth> "pictures or it didn't happen"
20:42:58  <andythenorth> :P
20:43:20  <drac_boy> andythenorth mm yeah .. at least the magazine is not too thin so shouldn't be hard to get a good scan
20:43:32  <drac_boy> its ughh early 2012 issue of Steam Railway
20:44:33  <drac_boy> andythenorth btw the editor wisefully included this paragraph ... "- something that would be inconceivable today!" and I have to agree
20:44:55  <drac_boy> would be too much if a excursion A4 was to hold up an eurostar train nowaday I imagine :p
20:45:13  <drac_boy> anyway .. a hour or so I should be able to get it up I think
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21:00:07  <drac_boy> mm actually andythenorth computer wasn't as balky as it always is so anyway here: and theres also that not-so-5-ton-anymore bridge as well :)
21:00:33  <drac_boy> sorry about the text not being that sharp but I couldn't be bothered with its quick settings
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21:02:06  <drac_boy> I kinda wonder what 'potter' actually means but meh
21:02:30  <andythenorth> mgtfy
21:02:30  <andythenorth>
21:02:51  <planetmaker> potters make pots. naturally
21:03:02  <drac_boy> oic andythenorth never really heard of this word before but thanks
21:03:25  <drac_boy> so anyway andythenorth what do you really think of that unusual photo?
21:03:57  <andythenorth> dunno
21:04:04  <andythenorth> there's an example for everything
21:04:20  <andythenorth> here
21:04:32  <andythenorth> have a Cat locomotive hauling a Cat train
21:04:52  <drac_boy> yeah I actually know in japan there used to be some steam-hauled local emu trains ... due to lack of electrifications going far enough
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21:05:18  <drac_boy> not too surprising considering japan used steam for quite a long time and never had that many diesels aside to eg the DD15 etc
21:05:38  <drac_boy> come to think about it I think japan was the only place that really had containers being hauled by steam in everyday service
21:06:10  <andythenorth> one for DanMacK
21:08:39  <drac_boy> andythenorth btw I forgot where I saw it but recently I actually saw a magazine photo of another br class 91 train.....with the rear unit actually coupled ahead of the front unit leading the train with its flat windshields
21:08:52  <drac_boy> thats the second time I've seen that
21:09:48  <drac_boy> wonder how many times they must have done that :P might never know heh heh
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21:14:16  <drac_boy> anyway andythenorth about 'an example for everything' .. theres these in north america too .. who else would have steam hauled commuter bi-level coaches? or an excursion train being the only cause for an old switcher locomotive hauling a loaded budd rdc. etc :)
21:16:05  <drac_boy> anyway think thats enough from me on this topic :p
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21:58:34  <Terkhen> good night
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22:11:02  <frosch123> night
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22:23:20  <Wolf01> 'night
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